The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - TAFS Goes Camping: Conversations with The Athletic's Eagles and Jets beat writers

Episode Date: August 3, 2025

Robert Mays went to so many training camps in the previous week, we had to split this weekend's Beat Writer Notebook into two episodes. On this edition of the Beat Writer Notebook, Robert speaks to Brooks Kubena and Zack Rosenblatt, The Athletic's Eagles and Jets beat writers, respectively. What do the Eagles do to live up to a Super Bowl encore? How does Aaron Glenn transform the Jets? Learn the answers to those questions, and a whole lot more, on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Host: Robert MaysWith: Brooks Kubena, Zack RosenblattExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠Apple⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠YouTube⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Brooks on Bluesky: @bkubena.bsky.socialFollow Zack on Bluesky: @zackblatt.bksy.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Brooks on X: @BKubenaFollow Zack on X: @ZackBlattTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It's our second beat writer notebook of the weekend. We had five of these and we just thought it was best to split it up into two shows, have really been enjoying these conversations with all of our beats as I'm traveling around here. Today, little northeast swing. We chatted with our Eagles writer at the Athletic Brooks Cubina about an Eagles team trying to repeat. You know, when you have a team at this stage, it's really about the nitty-gritty stuff. What's the second corner spot look like? What does the defensive line rotation look like after losing some guys in free agency? What does Kevin Petula look like in his first year as the offensive coordinator?

Really enjoyed visiting with Brooks in Philadelphia. And then we also shot up to Florin Park, New Jersey to chat with our Jets writer here at the athletic Zach Rosenblatt. Obviously, a new regime with the Jets. A lot of excitement about Aaron Glenn. What does that team look like? Some young, intriguing pieces, but they can be better potentially than people think. especially on defense, how quickly can that young offensive line gel and really drive that running game as the engine of what they're trying to be on that side of the ball? Really enjoyed visiting with Zach.

Let's get to both of those conversations right now. Joining us now, it is our Eagles writer here at the athletic. Brooks, great to see you, man. Great to see you. How you doing? Doing fine since our last chat, Super Bowl. Yeah. Long summer getting to it.

So, you know, Phillies, so third, third season on the beat. So it's going to be really excited to see how this team goes. I have a somehow the hottest day of camp every year is the day that I'm there with the team. And that was, that was the case today. Yeah. This is the second sweatiest I have ever been in a training camp practice. Okay. Well, you should probably wear less than two layer shirts.

So, you know, it's a linen shirt. It keeps me cool. I, listen, I, as a sweaty person, this is, today was a challenge. but we made it through. We're okay. We're on the other side. This team is in an interesting spot. When you win the Super Bowl, obviously, there's a lot of house money that you're playing with. And I think that the overall anxiety for a typical fan base may be a little diminished. You know, individual position battles, things like that. For this fan base, it's probably not the case. There's probably a rabid interest in who's going to win some of these jobs.

And I think on defense specifically, there are a couple spots at front of mind. And we were talking a little bit today during practice. And I think the number one question about this team specifically, personnel-wise, is probably who's going to be that other outside corner across from Quinnion Mitchell. So where does that stand as we're about 10 days in the camp here? So after they parted with Darius Slay in the offseason, they didn't really make super huge investments at corner. They had Keely Ringo on contract already, a 2023 fourth-round pick that started at that time

and struggled a bit as a rookie. and they've been developing them ever since. They added Adoree Jackson, who was more in a reserve role with the Giants last year, former first round pick that spent four years with the Titans. They added him in free agency and drafted Mack McWilliams out of UCF in the late rounds. So that's what they entered the offseason with cornerback right now. That was really the sense of that they believed in Kili Ringgo. He has all the skills to be a reliable cornerback in the league.

Just hasn't really developed to that point where he's being consistent. So, big significant, I won't say big significant, but definitely an advancement of what the battle is right now. Today, Kili Ringo now with the second team, he struggled a bit at the start of training camp. Against guys like AJ Brown, the Vonti Smith, some people might say, okay, well, that's too be expected. But you look at the other side, Quignan Mitchell is locking it down. At an impressive interception earlier on.

Darius Lay was setting what they believed to be there. And those setbacks, you see in Ringo now at the second team and Adoria Jackson now with the first team. And Vic Fangio, defensive coordinator seven times, he's not remiss for words and holding things back. He's still not certain about Jackson either. He basically sat on a challenge the other day. I said, we'll see who he is or who he isn't at this point. He was a backup on a bad secondary last year.

So I think that's the correct perspective for somebody that's sending a message to a very important part of the secondary that was integral to why they won a Super Bowl last year gave up so many. any explosive pass plays the year before and then ranked first in terms of the least amount in last year. So I keep pointing out that with the way that the cornerbacks are playing right now, Keely Ringo struggling a bit, you point to that playoff game against the Rams where Matt Stafford is dealing towards the end. With the way they're playing right now, the Rams win that game. So that's the margin of error that you have to think about in the context of a team that's pushing for another Super Bowl run. So right now, if I was an Eagles fan, certainly a reader. And as a reporter myself, I'm looking at this and saying, this is, this is

something to keep an eye on. That's not a good thing right now and something that they need to have more solidity, solidify more. And does that mean that they trade for a guy? Are there more on the market right now? It's early on a training camp, but with the preseason games, that that continues to be a problem. They're going to have to look outside the building. And then at safety, there's also a big question. Andrew McCuba and Sydney Brown are kind of fighting for that second safety spot on the other side of reblank and ship. Maccuba's hurt right now. And so now we're getting a lot of Sydney Brown, but that is another unsettled spot. you're looking at a group that was by the end of last season,

I think you can make a strong argument, the best secondary in the league, just playing in an incredible clip with those young guys coming along. And now there are two very big question marks with unsettled answers as we're, you know, 35, 40 days away from the season kicking off. I was looking at how the safety's had played, I'd say that's a little less precarious than how the cornerbacks have played. Sidney Brown has looked good in his terms of rotation.

It wasn't the sense that when Vic Banja was, talking about him and not really saying it up. It's because he didn't see anything. And he's been pretty complimentary of him the last couple of weeks. And he's now taking all the first team reps now that Makuba is hurt dealing with his shoulder injury. Last Saturday, you know, recording this on a Thursday. But, you know, he came in and dove while not wearing shoulder pads and collided with Danny Gray, a depth wide receiver. And they're both hurt. One of them dealing with the finger, gray now. But Makuba, it looks like he's not coming. He's missed three-pack practices now.

The sense that I get is that this may be something that he deals with for another week. That's significant because of how much they were using him already. He was getting first team reps at safety, yes, but Fangio was using him in the slot in dime packages. Something that he did at Clemson for a little while wasn't as good as that at free safety, but it's something that shows how much they believed he could be a part of the secondary early on. So Fangio, I asked him about that, and he's like, you know, we're going to prepare him as much as we can, but nothing beats on-field reps, especially with what they're asking them.

That's me saying that. So it's a lot about what Sidney Brown can do at safety, but he's not somebody that you're seeing playing the slot right now. So they're missing that. So does Mack McWilliams come in and he's been playing there since McCuba's been out? Is he someone that can step up? So that was somebody that they're really playing on.

The Eagles don't pick safeties in the second round. First time they've done that since 2011. Spoke a lot to what they saw in him. Harry Roseman says, it's hard to find cover safeties in this league. So his development was key. How much the secondary is critical to how this team

function last year, it's definitely significant injury at this point. And then Jihad Campbell, who we were questions on. You know, when he was drafted, it was one of those where's he going to play? You know, he has experience on the edge, obviously played off ball and backer to Alabama. And right now, especially with Nicopi Dean and Zach Bond both hurt,

he seems to be on track to be a week one starter at off ball linebacker. What have you seen from him and what have they been saying about him here over the first week or so. Well, I'm almost looking at him. They might need to reel him back a little bit. He is flying all over the field. It almost seems like he doesn't know his own strength.

He has a tenacity on that practice field a couple of days ago. They are in full pads now, but it was kind of a seven-on-seven drill, and he just decked Dallas Goddard kind of from behind as he was catching, put him to the turf, and ran over and helped him up. Talk to Goddard about that today. I was like, is that the tenacity that you want in practice? He's like, you know, it's kind of those things you bring him to the side after. You're like, hey, you know, that's great, maybe not the play we want to practice.

Today, in 11-on-11s, Jehad Campbell engaged Ben Van Sumer in their fullback in the run game, shoved him to the ground, won that block. But Van Sumer went off holding his left knee. He left practice. And then not only a few plays later, Jehad Campbell rushed in for another tackle on the run game and then rolled up another receiver. And he went off, but he came back into practice. Ben Van Sumer, we don't. who knows how, I mean, he dealt with the knee injury last year. That's what's in the amount.

So it's almost like, hey, man, your tenacity's there, but you got to reel that back. You're hurting people now. So, you know, some fans might see that like, ah, yeah, he's going to be unleashed on the league. So, yeah, I mean, it does show that he's out there. I mean, the other part of it, we didn't expect him to be back until August because that's what Vic Fangio said in the off season. He made a nice little joke to start. He's like, well, I can tell it the training staff likes to undersell and over-deliver to make

look good. But getting first team reps in the first week It's big for him. You know, seeing him in his tenacity, he tackles his strength, that's all there. The thing that I'm starting to notice is him in coverage, especially one-on-one for his running backs. You know, there was a one-on-one drill with him and Will Shipley

who shook him several times and got open-ass fanjo about that. He's like, you know, I don't really look at the one-on-one's invalidation. That's a learning position. I need to see what he does in 11-on-11s. but the developmental track right there I mean he should be able to be a week one start with as much reps as he's in as good as he's looking and the

opportunity there because yeah Nacobi Dean being out we're not going to see I expect he'd be on any reserve to start the season and then the last position that I think is kind of up in the air just because it's changed over from last year Josh Swett moves on in free agency Nolan Smith has banged up right now and so you're seeing a lot of other guys out there

the construction of the edge group is interesting because Josh Swet big long but also has some size to him, right? He's an imposing player. They don't have a lot of girth on the edge right now, but a lot of length. So how that group is going to play and how that group is constructed is interesting because, you know, as he's Osleri, again, not the biggest guy, but very long. Jaylux, not the biggest guy, but very long. So it feels like they're going to be tapping into a lot of young, long players at that spot as they kind of cycle through their options. It is the interesting look at the team. I would say Hunt has a little bit more power in some sense. And Nolan Smith's been working at that. But yeah, it's. It's a different construct. I think one of the things I'm starting to notice, too, is that they're using a lot of their defensive ends a little bit wider. Is that part of it?

So these are questions to look at. But it is a good observation because you think of the guys that are coming in. I mean, I covered Hobo O'Caronqua with the Texans, and he's sensed with the Browns. And now here kind of fits that mercenary role, going to come in as a rotational edge and provide some pass rush, some speed. That seems to be something that they like. And they, you know, Fangio, when he came in,

he's not someone that used a lot of rotation. before. And that's something that the Eagles and the Roseman have really appreciated. So now it seems like they're kind of finding this balance with their edge. These are guys, yes, Hunt and Smith who's dealing with a concussion right now hasn't practiced in a couple of days, but he'll be back.

Those guys are the starters, but how often are they going to be rotating? How much of this platooning are we going to see? Maybe they see a little bit more of that. And that might affect a little bit because you look at the way they are constructed on the interior. Big guys, Jordan Davis and Jalen Carter,

and we can talk about Jordan Davis, I'd like to. But you've got a lot of strength there. Are you setting off a little bit of the diversity across the line in that way? I think with the young guys, there's going to be a question of what sort of step forward do we take? Quinnianne Mitchell and Cooper DeGine were very good rookies last year. Do they go from being very good rookies to like superstar level players? You could argue DeGine's probably already on that track. Jail and Carter, same sort of deal.

like, right, flashing like all pro type stuff last year. Does he become one of the truly dominant players in the league? And Jordan Davis almost gets forgotten in that mix because these guys have risen so quickly. But you've seen from the way he's changed his body, different approach. Do you expect a different version of Jordan Davis this year than the one that we've gotten in the past? I'm already saying a different version. Yeah. I mean, he's noticeably in shape.

Every offseason he has said pretty much, and he's open about this and says the right things. You know, I'm going to focus on this. I'm going to reel it in. I'm going to come back. better shape. I want to be available for the Eagles. Well, he looks like it now. And he said he's 300 to 339. And Vic Fangio has backed that up and said, yeah, he's in the best shape I've ever seen him. Throughout all the first team reps, I've never seen Davis come off the field. He was around that 30% snap per game rate last year, even though he started in every game, he wasn't

very available. So does that get up to the 50% that you've seen with Fangio and past defenses? I think from what I've seen, that can be possible. I mean, he has a lot more. urgency. You know, he's got a couple of years left. They picked up his 50-year option, but he kind of has got the sense that they do believe in him, but he has to prove himself. So that's a big thing to see Davis come through and, you know, talking into your alignment like Landon Dickerson. They're like, yeah, that guy's coming in different. He's playing at a different level right now. That's encouraging whenever you, whenever you're looking at what Jordan Davis has done. So you mentioned some of the other younger guys. I think Cooper DeGine, and I'm guilty of it,

myself just because he's been moved around a lot. Vic Fangio's trying to play him at safety and base. We saw him at corner and base during the OTAs, but it seems like he's more bent towards safety right now. That kind of gets his name out there a little bit more, but Quinyon Mitchell is the one that impresses me the most when I look at these young guys. As much as cornerback looks like an issue on the other end, Mitchell is locking down A.J. Brown, Devante Smith, making a big place. His ball skills are noticeably better. Last year, it was something he was kind of ribbed with teammates like Terry Slay, but he brought down a interception with one hand, and Vic Banjo said that's a play he doesn't make last year. I just got off the field talking with him in a group

setting, and he was talking about how interesting things are doing behind the scenes. There's a kind of a drill that he does where he's looking at a computer and it flashes a color and he has to catch a ball that are three different colors. And you can see that showing up on the field. And if he's reaching an elite level, that's huge to pick up some of the last. lapses on the other side of the secondary. Fangio is already traveling him. He played all of right corner last year. That's partly because Slake could lock down the left.

And he's traveling with AJ Brown. He's flipping sides. That's something that you do, only if you have to. And him succeeding at that so far, that's something that can mitigate maybe some of the lapses they've lost. It absolutely can. And talking to some of the coaches today, just about how you think about the talent level on your defense.

And when you have some of those guys where we can really put the hard downs on a couple of these players. When you have guys go from being good players to truly elite players, it changes the calculus there. Just how much you can shift coverage, how many bodies you can put on one side of the field compared to him locking down the other side. So it's absolutely something worth bringing up. If he can take that next step and get to a place, you know, Pastor Taman, the second was the defense player of the year last year. It's unfair comparison. But that's somebody that Vic Fangio, Christian Parker, those guys, they've seen what the benefits of a corner like that can be for a defense.

If Quineon-Michael starts bumping up against that, it changes how you can apply all the other resources that you have. That's what makes the secondary, the most fascinating part of this team right now is because you're seeing a tenure defensive mind try and figure out how to make this fit after losing all of these players and having the deficiency that happens when you lose a guy like Darius Slay. and the trade of C.J. Garner Johnson to the Texans, while it helped clear out some contract money that they're going to use for guys like Cam Juergens that they've already signed. And then at the end of this year, they're going to have to engage negotiations with Jalen Carter to keep in here.

But you have to figure out things at safety. So where can Andrew McCuba eventually lead up and now you're dealing with a shoulder injury? And I'm very fascinated to see how Fangio handles this because it's a lot more difficult than it was last year. And we'll see how that works out through the course training camp. I would assume, just based on again, all the question marks personnel wise, even if some of those young guys do take a step forward and can make up for some deficiencies, them not being the best defense in the league this year, wouldn't surprise anybody, just the nature of defense.

So let's say they take a moderate step back. The offense, in theory, would have to pick up some of that slack. And I know that there were great moments in the playoffs and things really came together. But if you look at the season-long production, this was an offense outside of the top 10 and a lot of metrics. in your mind with so much carryover and cohesion personnel-wise on offense, what can they do to maybe pick up a little bit of the slack if the defense takes a moderate step back? Well, it's part of what they were doing last year

in terms of how they were leaning into the run game and being able to dominate time of possession, not turning the ball over, not, you know, in some ways that's leveraging a good defense because you're squeezing the opportunity for the other offense. But now it's more like, okay, how much can we help out our defense? defense here.

The sense that I'm getting, talking to Kevin Petulow first time, offensive coordinator, I asked him at its essence, is it still a run-oriented offense, which has been, for the most part, with Sirian. He says it's still the Eagles offense, but not much is going to change. But you look at how the chiefs played them, and they opened up on the passing game, and that balance is available to them. So whenever Petulah is looking at this enviable array of weapons, how do I use this? how do I expect defense are going to defend me.

I think there would be, and it would behoove them to look at, all right, how much can we advance ourselves in the passing game and prepare ourselves? They tried to do that. We've won through four lives. You just didn't work out. And then to the behest of the offensive line, like, we need to give Barclay the ball. I think they can't abandon that.

I think they have to be prepared to use Barclay again, who looks great. I mean, I'm looking at him in a training camp. It's just like he looked last year, making cuts. His body looks pristine, and then he's got the quickness and everything. But how much can you progress in terms of maybe if you're in a duel with another offense that's exploiting some of this secondary and you're not going to have to crunch time and give the ball to Barclay. Is this an offense that can do that? It has that capability with the weapons on the outside. We've seen Jalen try that before.

Jalen Hurts try that in 2023. It's the only time they pass more than they run in his career. and it was a disjointed dysfunctional system. So it is really important for them to figure out how to advance that and make that work in training camp because they are going to your point, if they start regressing more towards the mean in terms of giving up explosive plays and get into a shootout, they're going to have to lean on that as an offense. And the way that Jalen Hertz talks, even a reserved way, it's still talking about how can they be a balanced team. And again, working in the offseason with all his receivers down in Texas,

having a guy like Johan Dotson, who was a training camp edition last year, he visited him a couple of times down there. You can see that they're preparing for that possibility. This is an interesting team just because I think with a lot of offenses, you're trying to figure out how you can maybe expand things in order to make up for whatever relative talent efficiencies you have, right? like what sort of wrinkles can we add in order to make up for a lacking here or lacking there. With this team, it's the opposite mindset where they've been at their best when they've been

simplest, when they've paired things down. And it's been, okay, they're taking away one thing. How can we go to the easy answer? And I feel like this, from talking to people today, it seems like it's going to be a continuation of that where we're almost pairing things down in terms of how many things we're trying to do. We're just dressing it up a tiny bit differently. And even from how does J.

hurts take another step forward as a passer. The way that it was communicated to me is we're making things simpler, not deeper, where it's like, all right, if instead of going from one to two to three, let's communicate a more clear intention of a play so you can move a little bit quicker. And that just seems counterintuitive for an offense that, even if it's a different offensive coordinator, you're going into year four with the same quarterback, the same coaching staff, the same DNA. And so the fact that they're kind of streamlining it, it really speaks to the approach

this team can take on because of the talent level they have. It's really just about making sure you're not getting in your own way. As long as you're taking the path of least resistance, the talent starts to take over. And so it's just an interesting way to think about offensive football that I don't think other teams have the luxury of doing. Simpler or not deeper is a probably to Eagles listeners, the refreshing sound given the 2023 season. Yeah, right.

And I think that's not getting in your own way. It's probably the right approach here. You don't want to be in a sense where, like the division, whenever they lost in the wildcard round of the Buccaneers and Devante Smith and Dallas Carter are getting two different signals and running into each other and that kind of madness. It brings up an example in training camp where they do these team drills and there are different things within that that Jalen Hertz is obviously having some say in because AJ Brown whenever they connected deep once. He was saying later in an interview. He was like, yeah, I mean, that's just because we've worked together. like all Jalen Hertz had to say was like, you know, one little thing and I knew what we're doing. You know, there is there is a sense of simplicity.

And, and, you know, I think watching how they operate in the passing game, I'm seeing Hertz take maybe a little bit more chances. I mean, I hate taking stats and training camp. I don't think they mean much. That he's got two interceptions against him is less to me like, oh, he's erratic. It's more like, okay, he's actually taking chances downfield. And they're trying out things. So it will be something to monitor the rest of the training camp just to see how they work. It'll be interesting because we won't see that much in the preseason games.

The difference between – and here's the question I would ask is just coming in plainly. Why is this experience with a first-time offensive coordinator in 2025 going to be different than the experience with the first-time offense coordinator in 2023? To me, it's how Nick Seriani's learned how to manage it. In 2023, he had a very tight grip on how the offensive meetings were going. He was in every single one. He was very hands-on. I think some people would characterize it with how Brian Johnson was micromanaged.

And you saw how it worked out. It's part of how he stepped back last year. Kellan Moore, being a multi-time, offensive coordinator, deserve that trust. But seeing that play out, I mean, this is a relationship. Again, Brian Johnson had worked with Nick Serran before, but not to the extent that Petulah's been with him ever since Indianapolis. And they've been tied at the hit for a very long time. So that's a question of where the new ideas are going to come from.

But it's different because they've hired Scott Leffler from Bowling Green, a head coach. And, you know, I've talked to a lot of coaches that have worked with him before. And that's a guy that leaves college because he wants to get deeper into football. like a guy that wants to go back into the room and just study film and figure out how I can, you know, influx this new offense and apply all my ideas here. They bring in, you know, Parks Frazier and other guy is a passing game corner. Those ideas are getting in there. And Petulow, the way that Sirianai is talking about, he's like, yeah, you may have been with me all this time,

but he hasn't always got his say. And now he's got all these new ideas that I'm seeing. And a lot of them are good. So the way that they're talking about, the way that they've constructed the coaching staff is a, a way that shows that, okay, Petula is a play caller and is getting an opportunity to lead the offensive system with a head coach who knows now a little bit more how to manage it. And there are ideas that have come in a significant effort in the off season

to make sure that those are still there. With guys that have talked to coaches like Scott Leffler, there will be new ideas and how they're trying to pay them that together with things that have worked. So that's different to me than how 2023 was a little bit more pounding the table and saying nothing's going to change, we're going to do exactly everything the same, and then, you know, failing at that while trying to double down in obstinacy, I feel like there's a lot of more lessons learned this time. I think it's very well articulated.

I think that because that's exactly how I came to understand it being here for a day today, is that Siriani isn't in the offensive meetings more than he would have been last year with Kellynne Moore. It's a very similar split of his time. That perspective, being able to be in defensive meetings, be the head coach of the whole team, have a sense of the team, a pulse of it was huge last year. He's all able to do the same thing, but it's not stagnant because they are bringing in some new ideas. So I think that's very well understood. The last thing is that on the other side of the ball, I didn't even realize this.

The defensive staff is exactly the same. It's exactly the same. Somebody told me today, we're sitting in the same chairs in the meeting room that we sat in last year. And so as you're thinking about, again, why defenses maybe take a step back, especially when you're playing at a championship level, some level brain drain is always to be expected. And the fact that every single member of the defensive coaching staff is back here, is a very good thing as you're trying to sort through some of those personnel changes. Down the stretch last year, as I was doing stories on Vic Fangio,

some of the people that I'd worked with him in the past were kind of like, I think he'd be a head coach again. You'd ask him if he wants to be a head coach again. I was like, so there was a point. Well, I would have asked it anyway, but I was wondering if he had any interest in head coaching jobs because the way that the deep ones was playing, I think he might have gotten an interview if he wanted. He's like, no, I'm good.

Yeah, I don't, he should not be head coach again. He is enjoying being back in the state that he grew up. up in and the team that he grew up loving. And that's the biggest signing that the Eagles could have done in the offseason and make sure that he's back. Because that's the defense that they've wanted. And they couldn't, the mix up in 2020,

three in the off season and Jonathan Gannon and him going to Miami, it speaks a lot that he called them as like, I'm getting out of Miami. I'm coming back. We can make something work. And that he came up here. And they got the system that they preferred. So keeping that staff together,

keeping a lot of their main pieces like Zach Bond back to a line. back or loving coach like Fangio, those are, those are critical things for them. Brooks Kubina, always good to see you, my friend. Always appreciate the time. We'll just again very soon. Looking forward to it. Joining us now, it is our Jets beat writer here at the athletic. Zach Rosenblack.

Zach, how'd you, man? Good. Quieter camp this year for me than in the past. I've been here. I mean, quiet, but also I think reasonable amount of excitement, right? I'm just curious for you. You know, Aaron Glenn is somebody that I've always appreciated over the years in talking to him in Detroit and just kind of the energy he brings.

And not even just the energy he brings because I think Robert Sal was somebody who brought a ton of energy when you watched him as a coordinator on the sideline. Aaron Glenn maybe isn't that, but there's like a quiet storm elements to Aaron Glenn. Like there's an intensity to who he is, how he's gotten his defenses to play. So if you've just kind of taken in the first Aaron Glenn training camp, what have the hallmarks of it been to you so far? The hallmark, you know, I mean, there's an intensity for sure. sure that I don't think was present, not only Sala before that.

Like, I think they had a practice with, like, actual tackle to the ground tackling on Monday last week. And it's funny. You look at the press conference with all the media and you would think we had never seen like an actual football. What was this thing you guys are doing where you grabbed them and they went to the ground? It was crazy. But it was the thing.

Like, we haven't seen like a practice where they actually like were hitting and like doing things like and you know guys would get a false start penalty they're even being pulled out like there's like a level of accountability which is such a cliche but like they really have needed that around here and you're seeing it and the way guys are responding to it they keep talking like garrott wilson and all these guys are having these quotes where they're like i want to be challenged that we want to be held accountable we haven't really had that since we've been in the NFL like a lot of guys have been taking shots of the last regime but yeah i mean it's just the messaging is on point i think he built the roster of like young guys with a lot to prove as opposed to like you know the last couple of years

it's tyrant smith it's c j mosley it's aaron rogers it's you know all these older players who are taking days off every other day and it's just not a country club culture but um i don't know the players are kind of dictating things where i think these players want to be led and i i what i'm seeing it with this is aaron glen is the face of this team and you're talking about the excitement like there's excitement around erin glen which i haven't covered a team where the excitement is derived from the coach. It's usually around the quarterback or, you know, they make a big signing or whatever, but like Aaron Glenn is the face of this team. And it's a lot different than the last couple of years, especially. You look at this the way they've built in the offseason. I think going back to the types of

players they added previously, it makes tons of sense. It was the end of something, right? When you sign Aaron Rogers, inevitably, you're close to the end. It's a one or two year experiment. And you kind of have all your other moves fall in line with that. Now we're at the beginning of something. And even the guys they added in free agency, Andres Cisco is a young player. How old is Brandon Stevens? Brandon Stevens is 27. Yeah. So he's a second contract player. And so a lot of the guys they added even are pieces that you could potentially

build with. And so this is a group that is, it feels like the beginning of something. And they're betting on a lot of these young guys. It's a strange team because you look at it. And it's one of the reasons as we were parsing as people in my chair do, is this a good job? Is this a bad job? And we can talk about the

ownership and the elements of this that make the Jets job difficult. But from a roster and flexibility standpoint. When Darren Mugie takes his job, there are pieces here, right? They extended Garrett-Wilson. They extended Soss Gardner. They have Quinn and Williams. There are young pieces along the offensive one that they've pumped a lot of resources

into. So I guess my question for you, and it's impossible to answer, but what are realistic expectations for this team in 2025? You know, to your point, like this wasn't a situation that came into like Robert Salak came into

or even like Adam Gays came into before. that we're just like barren of talent like there's pieces here and i think last year if you look at the way the season went like there was a lot of dysfunction a lot of drama we covered a lot of it um from the top to the bottom but like they were still in games almost every week like they were in the fourth quarter with leads and they would blow it every week to a degree i've never seen it was consistently they were blowing it like six losses where they led going into the fourth quarter and that led the league and penalties a lot of them were ill-timed and like the kind of penalties you can't have So a lot of that is coaching.

I just didn't feel like they were disciplined and, like, ready for the moments. And they would fall apart and they would crumble in these moments. And so if you just simply put good coaching in the mix, I think you can count on them. Maybe they're not going to win 10 games, but this is going to be a team that's not going to, like, lose in the same way is my expectation. I know fans, they want to go to the playoffs. They're tired of waiting. But what I've been saying is, like, I think at the end of the year, you're going to feel like the Jets were in it every week. They were not getting killed by anybody.

they were doing the right things and maybe that means they win seven, eight games. But it's been a while since you've ended a season feeling like there was progress. Even 2022, they started that year as a surprise. They were six and three and then they fell apart at the end. They fired Michael Flore. Like it wasn't really great vibes going to the off season. It was we're a quarterback away, but there are other problems. I feel like they're on the right path because, you know, you look at the core.

It's Soss Gardner, Garrett Wilson, Quinn and Williams, Quincy Williams, Jamie and Sherwood, and, you know, Brees Hall and Mason Taylor in this offensive line. Like, none of those guys I just name are 30 years old. So they have the pieces in place to, like, build something if the owner can be patient, of course. The quarterback question is interesting. I mean, you look at it on the last few off seasons have gone, and I totally understand what they're trying to do. You know, the cast off former top 10, top 12 pick has worked out well for some of these teams,

Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and now Justin Fields is the Jets version of it. There are a couple interesting differences. One, Baker Mayfield made like $4 million going to Tampa. And part of the reclamation for that is they had two guys, offensive coordinators, get hired to be head coaches, right? You have to ever their ecosystem to get the most out of that guy. The Vikings have arguably the best ecosystem in football for a quarterback, which is part of why Sam Donald can play that way.

What do we expect from Justin Fields with a first-year offensive coordinator, with a lack of weapons? I'm sure people want to talk themselves into the same sort of trajectory. for him that we've seen from a couple of these other guys. Do you think that's reasonable or a version of that is reasonable, given some of the questions on that side of the ball for the Jets? It's so interesting. He's such a different player than those other ones.

And that's why whenever I get asked like you did, I kind of couched my answer about like what the expectations are of this team, because they're so wildly different based on what you're going to get from Justin Fields. He's in his fifth year. And a lot of the same problems have been there the whole time. I think the Steelers tried to minimize the mistakes he can make. He's a great athlete, better athlete they've ever had a quarterback in this team. But this coaching staff really believes they have the next Baker Mayfield on their hands.

Like they truly believe that Justin Fields is the guy. Aaron Glenn has had this quote over and over again where he's like, nobody has let him play quarterback before and we're going to let him play quarterback. What does he mean by that? I think what he means is like they were all trying to make him only a running quarterback. That's not the case last year, though. They didn't let him run last year. Yeah, it was the opposite.

And I actually think the best version of him when you look at the pieces this team has is to lean into that side of it. So that kind of gives me, that makes my skin crawl a little bit. I think it's more to build up his confidence. Like, this is going to be a team that's going to run the ball a lot. Like, that's obvious. I believe in Tanner Engstrom, but he is an unknown. He hasn't called plays in the NFL he did in college. And they're trying to build this like the Lions, the Lions offense, but he's a much different quarterback than Jared Goff.

So, like, there's a lot of factors here that are questions. Like he's been inconsistent in camp, I would say I'm not trying to put too much stock in it. But yeah, I don't know. It's just the big, like, if he has the talent to like throw the ball down the field to run. But he's always struggled in processing, holding on to the ball too long. I mean, you know, obviously, what, falling the bears. I sure do. So I don't know.

Like, I go back and forth. Like, I just, I don't see him as someone who's ever going to be a great passer. But like, can you build a winning offense around him. Like, I think you can. They have a really good offensive line, I think. on paper at least um they have really good running back room one of the best in the NFL mason taylor i think's gonna be really good they signed josh reynolds and the number one thing that came out of erin glenn's mouth after we asked him about it like in the beginning run blocking run blocking

yeah first thing that just tells you everything you know about what this offense is going to be they brought back out lazar because it was run blocking like this is the the offense they're building the model is similar to the lines if you're trying to figure out all right what's the last team that there were some sincere questions about the quarterback. And at the time, there were questions about Jared Goff, the weapons. But they've pumped a ton of resource into the offensive line as a resetting, if not rebuilding team. It's analogous to what the lions were when Tanner Rankstrand was there. So the question is, can the offensive line come together?

And what does this version of that look like? Like, Ben Johnson was not there in year one. There was some hiccups. But that's the last team that, all right, the offensive line has been a good unit from day one, even if there are questions. elsewhere. It worked out okay for the Lions. I wonder if there's a similar-ish path available to the Jets. I think Aaron Glenn's been trying to create this in the Lions image. Even if you heard the way he was talking about these guys after the draft, they draft Mason Taylor. He's comparing him to Sam Laporte and how he came out. They draft Aryan Smith. He has dropped issues. He's like,

well, they were talking about that with Jameson Williams. I see a kind of similar kind of thing here. So you look at the running back room, I really do think they view Brees Hall and Braylin Allen as Jamir Gibbs and David Montgomery type or Jamal Williams before that type situation. And you have Garrett Wilson as your Al Monra, St. Brown. I think they just really are building it around and the big difference is the quarterbacks like they're really different quarterbacks. Like I think, you know, Jared Goff, I think even back then I think you'd feel good about him being like a game manager. I don't know if Justin Fields is a game manager quarterback. He's he's all or nothing kind of.

So that's going to be the interesting aspect of it. And again, we don't know what Tanner Nangstrand is going to be like. Like I've been impressed with him so far. I think he's going to be pretty creative. He seems pretty smart. I've heard a lot of good things about him. But until you actually see it, like Michael Flore when they hired him, like he was somebody who came in with really high marks, Kyle Shanahan,

disciple, like all that stuff. So the unknown, the first year play caller with a quarterback like Justin Fields. Like that's, it's going to dictate this season. It's August 1st when we're recording this. I've been listening to a lot of fantasy football podcast in the car.

And so my brain has swapped to that. And as somebody who may or may not have some heavily invested, heavy investments in Braylon Allen long-term dynasty shares. Do you really see it as being like a split sort of workload and like in the roles? Like you see Braylon Allen kind of in that like churn workhorse role that David Montgomery is in. And you think that Brie's Hall will be more of the past catcher role. Like that's how you see it playing out. Legitimately, just based on purely what I've seen in camp, last year I got high on Braylin Allen and then they kind of went away from the run and he barely saw the field.

But I see it as a 1A, 1B at this point. Like that's the way they split the touches. the way they're using them. Braylon Allen looks explosive more. He looks faster. He looks stronger. He looks like he's added something in the passing game where he's catching the ball and running and hitting the holes really hard.

And they've talked a lot about how like we're going to make Brise. We're going to use them a lot more in the passing game. So I think because of their lack of like weapons at receiver outside of Garrett, like I think you might see a decent amount of like 21 personnel. Like you're going to see those two guys on the field at the same time. I think they're going to lean on both of them. But they like Isaiah Davis too as a third running back. But, yeah, I'm really high on Brian Allen.

I think he has a lot of talent. I think they really, really believe in him, this new coaching staff. Like, I think they're really, really high in him. He had some knee soreness that cost him a couple of practices. But, you know, if he keeps playing like he's looked in camp and the run blocking, it was really bad last year. And it's looked really, really good in camp. They've been opening up a lot of holes.

I know the D-line has some holes in it. Not a lot of depth. But if the O-line's as good as I think it's going to be, I think Braylin Allen is in line for, like, a pretty big role. the Garrett Wilson question is an interesting one, just from a workload perspective, because you'd think they have to funnel a disgusting number of the targets to Garrett Wilson. But I think the bigger question is, how many targets are they going to be? If this team is throwing the ball 25 times a game, even if you're getting a quarter of the targets, that's still not that big of a workload for a receiver. So do you feel like it's going to be that run heavy?

Like, what are reasonable expectations for what Garrett Wilson should be this year when he is so clearly the only option within this passing game? It's so interesting because, I mean, they funnel targets human practice and they will during the season, but who scares you if you're a defensive coordinator other than Garrett Wilson, like in the passing game? So they're going to double team them every play until Josh Reynolds or Mason Taylor or Breece or whatever, like emerges as like a legit threat. So that I think that he's going to get a lot of targets. I think he's probably, he might set a career high in targets. Honestly, he might set the Jets record. Like, I think that's a legit possibility. And what I would say is Justin Fields looks the most confident when he's throwing it to Garrett Wilson because he knows you can throw it in his general direction.

And Garrett's probably going to get it. So that's going to be interesting thing. And Tanner Engstrain was, you know, interesting comments kind of sidetracking a little bit about Garrett Wilson. Like the problem with him and Aaron Rogers was Garrett likes to freelance a little bit bit. Was Aaron like needs his receivers to be where they're supposed to be? And Tanner was kind of talking about how they're trying to like get him to be where he's supposed to be a little bit more while still letting him have that like sewer power of like they have some designs where he's able to do. to go out and do what he wants but he's like so athletic and so like he's gotten so smart about like reading the defense and stuff like that that he just like wants to get open the way he can so

that's going to be an interesting dynamic because i think they're trying to train just the fields to go where he's supposed to and that kind of stuff so it's going to be an interesting balance with him but i do think he's their number one and then everybody else is like so far down in the pecking order so i i just my concern is just they don't have other passing weapons at receiver right now that are like actually going to scare anybody. So how's Gary going to handle double teams on every play? You don't want to react too much when you see flashes from young players in training camp. But Aaron Smith made multiple plays today. And it almost feels more relevant for this team because who's keeping him off the field if he's going to be consistently making plays in training camp?

So that sticks out to me where it's like he's making multiple plays down the field. All right, he's probably going to get a chance to play because there aren't that many guys when it's third and seven. Right. Josh Reynolds will be in there early downs, whatever. But it feels like there's going be opportunities for somebody like him just because there's no one else established as a past catcher opposite Garrett Wilson. Yeah, and he brings something that they don't really have from any other receivers. He's really, really fast. And I think throughout camp, as he, he's someone they're really trying to develop, like, even just the other day, he sometimes would, like, run so fast to his place that he would outrun where he was supposed to be. And so the ball will go behind him

when if he was in the right spot, it would have, like, hit him. And so, like, hands were an issue coming out. He allowed to drop last year, but they're really high in his ability to make plays after the catch. They want to move them around. They don't want them just to be like a go ball guy, but they don't have anyone else who is a deep threat on this on this roster. I mean, Al-Lazar's not fast. He had some deep plays with. I was kind of. But Josh Reynolds, I wouldn't really qualify as particularly like fast. Malachi Corley, if he's even sticking around, he's like after the catch guy. Like they really don't have any other weapons like him. So if he can become that guy that even

if he's just a threat to the defense where they have to pull somebody away from Garrett, like that would make a huge difference. I think that's the vision they had when they drafted him. He was the most critically pan-draft pick they had, especially among the fan base because of the drops and a lot of where he was graded from a lot of the experts and stuff. But I think they see a lot of potential on him. And I really do think Aaron Glenn seems like a Jameson Williams type of talent there.

As I'm building the best case for this team. It's Foshano taking a big stuff forward in year two. It's Memo being an ass kick from day one. It's that offensive line being a defined strength and them leaning on the ground game, being able to control games that way, and then playing really good defense. How much do you think the really good defense part of that?

How much is that on the table based on the construction of that unit and probably a different way they'll be playing this year with Aaron Glenn? I think this defense can be really good. It's going to be a much different type of defense than before. They're going to blitz a lot. There's going to be a lot of man coverage. Sauce kept talking about how excited he is to follow top receivers, all that. My concern with them is that it's very top heavy.

So they have Sasca Arner, obviously great. Quincy Williams, Jamie and Sherwood, important, Quinn and Williams, Will McDonald, Germaine Johnson. Like, that's really solid core of guys. If they lose any of them, the depth is pretty bad at those spots besides corner and losing sauce here in trouble anyway.

So my concern is just, like, Quinn and Williams is missing practices right now with a calf injury. Their defensive tackles starting right are J2Fellet and Byron Coward. That is not scary you. And with Jermaine Johnson's to allow, Michael Clemens is a starting defensive end.

Will McDonald has been an absolute studding camp, and I think he's going to take another leap full. word but like that that group is not going to get much push up front so like that my concern is the dline depth in particular and then a linebacker they have nobody behind quincy and sherwood so like the secondary i think is pretty deep and pretty good they have some rookies they have some guys they've really developed um but the front seven is like a house of cards right now so like if you pull any of those guys out it could fall apart but if they stay healthy and they've had pretty good luck in terms of health the last three years on defense like crazy luck last year was a little bit less but

which remain getting hurt. But if they can stay healthy, I think this could be a really good defense. They're going to blitz, blitz, blitz, and that can be a hit or miss, obviously. But the ceiling's high, I think. Yeah, the best version of it, if they stay healthy, I think totally tracks to me.

The other spot outside of Quinn and Williams, a defensive tackle, like that's the spot on the roster. That, to me, is just the biggest glaring, flashing light of maybe the second pass catching spot. To me, the interesting bets on the defensive side, going out and getting Andre Sisko and Brandon Stevens, for this team specifically, I think, are notable. Brandon Stevens, we're talking about this during practice,

and I totally agree with you. The positioning when he's in man coverage is actually pretty good. Like, he's pretty sticky. He just, his ball skills and his awareness are lacking. And so you bring in Aaron Glenn. They've done such a fantastic job of developing defensive backs in that Detroit building. Can you get a little bit more out of Brandon Stevens in an Aaron Glenn defense where that stickiness matters in man coverage?

Can he get his head around in his hand on a few more balls? and then Andre Sisko is somebody that they signed at safety. Cheap price tag had a bad year in Jacksonville last year because everybody had a bad year. So the two bets they made on those two players, given what they're walking into situationally, I get those bets. And if you can make good on those and you stay relatively healthy in the front seven, there's a path for this defense to be pretty good in year one. Yeah.

I would say broadly, like that was their model and free agency this off season. They targeted guys that were under 30 that have shown something. the NFL or maybe coming off a bad year they can get for cheap because I've been phrasing as I feel like Mugi and Glenn they were they're investing in the coaching ability they believe they have on this staff and so you're signing guys like those guys and even guys on offense and Justin Fields and all that stuff and it's a belief in that but yeah specifically with those guys like Brandon Stevens has had as good of a camp as like anybody on defense like he's they're putting him across from Garrett Wilson like quite a bit which is good practice for him he has had the

moments where he does not turn his head around, but he's also made some plays on the ball, had some deflections. It's been really good. And Cisco is, he's flying all around all over the place. They're sending him on blitzes. He's a guy that, like you said, had a bad year last year. I think he had, like, a bunch of forced turnover. So I think they're banking on those two guys unlocking their potential with what I think is one of the best defensive back coaching rooms in the NFL. You have Aaron Glenn. You have Chris Harris, who came from the Titans before. The Titans last year. Even the Titans last year, you had a guy like Jarvis Brownlee. had some nice moments as a young player.

So I think they've done a good job of getting some flashes out of their young guys in that area as well. Yeah. So I just think the defensive backroom looks really. I mean, they drafted Malachi Moore from Alabama, who is probably going to start next to Cisco if he's healthy. And they drafted as a Sierra Thomas, the corner. If you as like a developmental guy who just looked pretty good too. Like they just they have pieces all over this place with like the tools to be really, really good in the NFL with the right coaching.

And Aaron Glenn obviously did an amazing job. developing defensive backs in Detroit. So if you're going to believe anything about Aaron Gleynes that he can get the most out of his defensive back. So that's why Brandon Stevens, like, he just seems like a guy. He's in such position all the time that if they can unlock that turning the head around thing, he could be like a Pro Bowl corner. But if they don't, he gave up like 800 passing yards last year.

Anybody else that has flashed for you over the last couple weeks? Somebody I'm not thinking enough about that you feel like has been a name that's come up a lot so far in camp. Let's see. We already talked about Braylin Allen. You know, I'll shout out Mason Taylor of the tight end. rookie second round pick from LSU over the course he's really young he just turned 21 Jason Taylor's kid he um him and Justin Fields are developing chemistry but he's had a touchdown

I think in like five straight practices and we talked early about their lack of weapons at wide receiver like he feels like he could step in and be the number two target in the passing game right away and I think tie on sometimes hit a learning curve but I don't know I just think he's so really fleshed out as a pass catcher already. and they think they rave about his blocking too, that I think he's going to come in right away and be really, really important to this offense. And I mean, Justin Fields, you know,

and he had a couple years there with Cole Commit where it was really productive. And if we're talking fantasy, like Mason Taylor or someone, I would honestly keep my eye on because of all those factors. Zach Rosenblatt, always great to see you, sir. Always appreciate the time. We'll do it again very soon. Definitely, man.

Always good talking to you. All right, guys, that's all we got today. Thank you so much to Brooks. Thank you so much to Zach. really enjoy having these discussions with our guys that cover these teams. Just a level of insight and detail that you're not going to get a lot of other places. Really an expression in my mind of what makes the athletic unique. We're going to have, I think, two more of these next weekend because of how many stops I'm making over the next week or so.

I'm going to be in Buffalo. I'm going to be in Cleveland. I'm going to be in La Trope, Pennsylvania. I'm going to be in Charlotte. So a ton of stuff coming your guys as way over the next few days. Sincerely appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon.