The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - TAFS Goes Camping, Vol. 4: Eagles, Jets and Bills

Episode Date: August 19, 2023

Robert Mays' training camp travels took him back out east over the previous week, and landed him with three teams all harboring Super Bowl aspirations this season. In Volume 4 of TAFS Goes Camping, Robert visits with Eagles beat writer Bo Wulf, Jets beat writer Zack Rosenblatt and Bills beat writer Joe Buscaglia.Follow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Bo on X: @Bo_WulfFollow Zack on X: @ZackBlattFollow Joe on X: @JoeBuscagliaSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThe Football 100, the definitive ranking of the NFL’s best 100 players of all time, goes on sale this fall. Pre-order it here.Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/mays. Go to shopify.com/mays to take your business to the next level today.This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/mays and get on your way to being your best self. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. It's another edition today of our going camping series, check-ins from training camps all around the NFL. This is the fourth of our five episodes we're doing this, so we have one more stop doing the NFC North teams, or at least three of them, next Saturday.

But today, it's the East Coast Swing. My food of Philadelphia late last week, Got to spend time with our Eagles writer, Bull Wolf, for Brown's Eagles joint practices. Then off to New York, where I spent some time with Zach Rosenblatt, our Jets writer. Obviously, a lot going on in Jetsland right now. And finally, went up to Buffalo, chatted with our Bills writer at the athletic, Joe Biscalia, three teams with pretty huge aspirations this season and three arguably of the best teams in the NFL. It was a fantastic set of visits with these guys.

I cannot wait for you to hear these conversations. Let's get to it. Joining us now is one of our wonderful Eagles writers here at The Athletic. It's Bull Wolf. Oh, it's great to see you. Thank you for having me. One of the wonderful ones is important because Zach is just as wonderful, if not more so. We have a very special crew covering the Philadelphia Eagles and have always had a very special

crew covering the Philadelphia Eagles. I don't know. It's gotten better since, I'd say, 2019, but yeah. I'm trying to think of the right adjective here. One of the, I don't know, Crown Jewel. franchises the league it feels like right now based on how the last few years have gone right when the Super Bowl last year I think everyone's like both their coordinators got hired to be head coaches it just seems like they're a model franchise model I guess is the way that I would phrase

yeah the crown jewel thing is like uh there must be like a bell ringing in Howie and Jeffrey's office that like you said that and now they can have an extra pep in their stuff I think model franchises is a way to put it right now I think that their teams are chasing the things that they're doing and they're chasing their people and I don't think that's overstating it right now. I think that's right. And I think a lot of that has to do with ownership and the things that ownership emboldens and the kinds of decisions that Jeffrey Lurie allows Howie Roseman to think and the things that he wants him to emphasize. And I think the most impressive part of it is probably how quickly they were able to turn the page after, you know, clearing Doug Peterson and changing,

you know, totally clearing house. And then all of a sudden they're in the Super Bowl two years later. That's wild. Absolutely. And when we were in this closet, which, we are in upstairs at the Eagles Media House just outside of their training camp facility last year. We were talking about what the ceiling might look like for this team. And you said, if Jalen Hertz is the same guy, they're a playoff team.

They're a 10-win playoff team. If he's not, if he takes a step or two steps, this is a team that could compete to win a Super Bowl. He did. He took those steps. He earned a massive contract. Listen, you did very well for yourself when we had this conversation.

I just remember talking about Andre Sout. That's right. Heartbroken, he's not on the roster anymore. It's a tough moment. We were making the case for why the Eagles could be one of those teams, could be the best team of the NFC, could potentially win a championship. That case has been made. Now, I want you to tell me why they won't get back to that place, because I think that

is the more interesting way to talk about the Eagles in 2023 compared to last year. So I think there are a lot of natural regression things that are set up here, the The most obvious one is injuries. I mean, they were so healthy last year. Yeah. There are 22 week one starters. We're all on the field in the Super Bowl. It is, it is, you know,

Howie Roseman said it himself. He would be naive to, like, not expect worst injury luck this year. That's not an exciting thing to talk about, but it's a real thing. And I think that they've done a decent job protecting themselves from that, especially at certain positions.

They're deeper in a lot of spots than most teams could even dream of being. There are exceptions to that, but I think that there are certain areas of this roster that are set up to endure a bit of attrition. Yeah, it's not fun to say, okay, this guy's over 30. He might get injured. You know, they do have two corners, starting corners, over 30. That's not ideal. Obviously, Lane Johnson and Jason Kelsey are at the latter ends of their careers. They seem like they have good depth at corner. They're very deep at corner. It's probably the deepest position in training camp. Outside of the two 30-year-olds, Keely Ringo, who else do you think makes up? that depth in your opinion. So right now it looks like Josh Job, who is a second year player who was undrafted Alabama last year, has sort of made that move as the top outside corner. Okay. Zach McPherson is a guy who was that guy last year, never got called into action

because Darius Lay and James Bradbury were healthy the whole time. He has moved inside as like the second team nickel behind Devante Maddox, another guy who has a bit of an injury history. And then they might keep a sixth guy if they do, you know, Greedy Williams is here. He has not had a great summer. More interesting are some of the undrafted rookies like Eli Ricks and Mackay Garner. But I think it's probably the top two guys. Ringo is maybe on a redshirt year. He's had a bit of an up and down summer. Job McPherson, Maddox is probably your group there. But you feel pretty good about that. If they have to dip into that group of one of those guys gets hurt, you think they can endure something like that? Because that's one of my question.

Okay, because that's one of my questions about the defense is like those guys are over 30. those guys did play at a really high level last year. If there's a natural step back or any sort of injury at corner, what does that mean? I was looking at your 53-man projection that you did with Zach earlier this week. I think you said about Terrell Edmonds, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the starting safety or he didn't make the team. And then at linebacker, Nicholas Morrow, who was presumably one of the starters on this team, wasn't on either of your guys's 53-man projection. Should I be concerned about those two spots and how they currently see? sit because I am a little concerned. Yeah, I think the whole spine of the defense is an issue.

We can get to defensive tackle because that's a different conversation, but there's no doubt. And some of this comes back to like the team building question. I think they've done the right things. You know, when you, when you are not able to pay for everything, Howie Roseman is always going to sprinkle as little as he can at linebacker. And I think that's the right decision. But they have some serious questions at linebacker right now. Nikobe Dean is the guy who is who is going to be the green dot and has been touted as like the linebacker. But, you know, Nkobie Dean didn't get on the field last year. You didn't play.

And it's not like Kaiser White was like letting the world on fire. I understand that like when you're playing that well, you don't necessarily want to mess with things. Yeah. But he, I mean, if he was really, really good, he would have forced himself on the field, right? Beyond that, this is a guy who fell in part because there were like questions about whether he could hold up physically. He gets hurt the second week of camp. so they go out and sign Miles Jack and Zach Cunningham to do both same day both of them and you know

I don't want to get into the whole Dominic and Sue Linball Joseph thing but like we don't have to we don't have to make every signing like another signing like they can they can be on their own um I think those signings were probably a bigger indictment of Nicholas Morrow than they were of Nicopa Dine but I think that Nicopa Dien's I think they were they are worried about what happens if Nicopa Dien gets hurt and I think that's why they sign those guys and then there's this this guy who has you know every year I have a I have a camp crush Christian Ellis is my camp crush Okay. He's a second,

well, he's actually a third year player. He was a special team's, like, savior for them down the second half the last season. I think he might end up

playing like the most snaps of any line back on the team this year. The conclusion at the end of this, where I'm going with all of this, is it's a lot of uncertainty at starting positions. We're doing this on August 14th,

you and I are having this conversation. This team is supposed to be the favorite in the NFC. That's a lot. And then you combine that with a first-year defensive coordinator. that you're piring from the outside.

I didn't have the Eagles as one of my top ten defenses when we did our top ten defenses previous. I would be very surprised if this is a top ten defense. And so I'm glad to hear you say that as somebody who's watching this every single day because I have my concerns about the peaks that this group can reach, even if you love the players they're trotting out up front. So this goes back to the macro question, right? I think their defense is going to be significantly worse than it was last year.

I think they're not. 70 sacks. It's impossible. And there's turnover regression. Like they're not going to get as many takeaways as they had last year. They are probably worse at every single position on defense than they were last year. At older if they had the same place. Right, exactly.

You would expect them to be not as good. I think the defensive tackles, like, you know, Jalen Carter is great in theory. Jordan Davis taking a leap is great in theory. They're not going to get the same production they got from Jav on Hardgrave. Like that's not going to happen. You've got two new coordinators on both sides of the ball. Like there are all these little things that are, you know, it's not going to be as good. And yet, at the end of the day, offense matters more.

And if they stay healthy on offense, I think they're going to be a top three offense. And that's what really matters. And so that's why I'm still, if I was making the case that this is still an elite team, now that's the case. I think that's a fair case to make. And we'll get to that. Last question I wanted to ask you about the defense. What have the earlier turns been either talking to players or just your sense of

what the Sean Desai factor has felt like, who's coming is their defensive coordinator? Schematically, I think a lot of the same general philosophies and ideas that they've had the last couple years. I'm sure that's not an accident. But what have the early returns been on just the job he's done so far? Yeah, I mean, I think he's hit the right buttons in public. You know, his opening press conference, he's talking about, you know, being palpable. And he wants people to be able to feel this defense. That's, you know, from like opening press conference bingo for a defensive coordinator.

You want to be multiple. I think he has probably shown us a little bit more of a willingness to be creative with guys so far. For instance, Nolan Smith, you know, has taken a handful of reps at off. ball linebacker, a handful of reps as like a four-eye interior pass rusher. I don't know that I expect him to be so much different. I think what some Eagles fans would tell you is what they hope is that just he'll be a little bit more aggressive against the best quarterbacks, right, and not just sit back and take it. I can't think of a situation where your defensive coordinator gets hired to be a head coach

somewhere else and the fan base believes that they upgraded a defensive coordinator. Well, they believe they upgraded, but there's also the, like, and I think some of the people in the organization would, you know, off the record say this too. There's also the, like, you know, we could have had Vic Fangio. Yeah. We should have had Vic Fangio. He was in the building, literally. He was in the building for this purpose so that if you left, we could replace you with him. And it wasn't done on the up and up.

And now we're, you know, we're happy with Sean Desai, but he's not Vic Fangio. Why do you think that was ultimately how that ended up? I think that's probably a question that you need some truth serum from Jonathan Gannon and Howard Roseman for. Interesting. Okay. Let's get to the offense because I do think that it has a chance to be really, really good. I mean, top to bottom, there really aren't any question marks. The running back position is something that they've thrown a lot of bodies at.

They have all the requisite pieces coming back. The only start of they lost outside of Miles Sanders was a guard. and they have people in the pipeline to replace that person. So what do you think the next step of this offense looks like? It's a good question. You know, we sort of know that this offense, the passing game, right, was so heavily weighted towards the top three guys last year. No team allocated a higher percentage of their targets to their top three players than the Eagles.

I don't think they want to throw the ball less to A.J. Brown and Devante Smith and Dallas Goddard. But if you're if you're just talking about some things on the margins that you can improve, I mean, they threw the ball less to running backs last year than any offense in the league. And when they did throw the ball to running backs, they were second worst in the league in EPA per play. I think D'Andre Swift, the addition of him, is in their mind a big factor in sort of correcting that. And maybe playing against some tendencies early in the season. Kenny Gainwell can catch the ball a little bit too. And other than that, I think they just, they need like a little bit more production out of Kwez Watkins or, you know, some fourth.

option and you know it could be grand calcuttaire i think it's more likely to be quez wakins or olamane zakias it's interesting like the the perception we have in our mind of quez wakins is he's like he's a field stretcher yes and that makes sense because you need somebody to stretch the field when everybody's watching these other three guys these three guys who all do so well in just creating a little bit of space that they need but like his quez's uh like average yards per tar or air yards per target were not very high. Like they did not do a lot of deep shots to him. Because AJ Brown turned into a deep threat out of nowhere

a random way. So the role is kind of shifted as we got into the season. Right. And so I think that's an opportunity to maybe go a little bit more bombs away there. And then, I mean, the big thing is like, if I am, uh, Howie Roseman, I'm like, do we need Jalen Hertz to run quite so much? Like can he just, it's week four. Does the dynamic change after it's the second quarter?

We're already up by 10. Like, can we not call a draw right now? please. And I think they do have to play that long game. It's like, you know, he has gotten hurt each of the last two seasons in December. Then you get into that thing, though, of are you sapping him of what makes him valuable? So if you're trying to get the most out of him in the long term with that deal, understandable. But if you're trying to get the most out of that deal and putting the best possible player on the field, there's a push and a pull there. And Jalen Hertz has said, you know, he's trying to embrace the uniqueness of his game, right? So he doesn't want to take that

away. That is a please don't do this to me again, I think is how I would frame that. Right. And he, for the most part, is really good at avoiding contact. I think he does that really well. And obviously, you know, you look at the rushing numbers last year. They're huge, but, you know, a high percentage of them were quarterback sneaks and he's protected on those. But like, I am worried about that a little bit. And hopefully having maybe a deeper stable of running backs means that you can take some of the the load off him there. But other than that, it's like I've just, I've resigned myself

to no longer like question the power of Jalen Hertz at this point. I have two more questions. This is a quagmire at running back for everyone who is going to play fantasy football this year. Me included. Yeah. Makes sense of this to me in some way.

How does the hierarchy shake out? Is it just going to be a nightmare of the entire season? Based on what training campus looks like, how would you kind of delineate the role? So I think Rashad Penny is like the Terrell Edmonds here Where like you could convince me he's going to lead the team in rushing And you could convince me he's not going to be on the week one roster It's amazing

I mean he has no guaranteed money Yeah But he has been arguably the most effective running back In the league per touch for each of the last two seasons When he's been healthy Yeah exactly I think my guess right now Is there's what the Eagles would want to happen

And then what I think will happen I think the Eagles want it to end up being DeAndre Swift's backfield. Interesting. He's got the most juice. And it's an interesting philosophical question. We've been talking about this

on birds of friends. You have the most running back friendly offense in the league, right? You've got a great offensive line and you have the attention paid to Jalen Hertz. So do you want the guy who has like the boom bust sort of variance where DeAndre Swift can turn a run that's blocked for five

into 45, but he also might, you know, lose a yard, sort of like Miles Sanders did last year? Or do you go with the, like very reliable Kenny Gainwell who over the past two years is number one in the NFL in terms of getting positive yards on his carries. He led the league and Russian UPSS. And he's the only running back over 90% of the time gets positive yards.

So do you want that instead? Do you want what's blocked to get, to be gotten? And I don't know exactly what they think. I think they probably would rather have the boom and, you know, invite. Doesn't Rashad Penny also offer you that though? That's my thing. Yeah, he does. He seems like he might be the best of both worlds in this entire thing.

And it's hard. You know, you can't really tell how guys look in training camp at that position. It's tough. And part of his superpower is breaking tackles and he's not going to be like breaking tackles in camp. I thought he looked okay in the initial preseason game. I think what's going to happen is that in the end, Kenny Gamal is going to play the most of these guys because he's the most reliable.

He doesn't get injured. I mean, Jandre Swift doesn't have Rashad Penny's injury history, but he's been injured each of the past two seasons. And I sort of think it will be like, you know, they're dating around for somebody more exciting and then they come back to the guy who's Mr. Reliable. Brian Johnson comes in as the offensive coordinator for this team. By the way, that sounds like a nightmare.

I'm trying to pick between all these guys right now as I think about what fantasy football is going to look like and I just want to avoid it at all costs, I think, is kind of where I've landed. Brian Johnson comes in as the offensive coordinator. It's a quarterback coach for the last couple of years. Do you envision a drop-off? Is it the same situation where he's going to be calling plays?

Nick Seriani is kind of in his role. How do you imagine all of this shaking out with a first-year play caller as part of this potential top-three offense that you're talking about? Yeah. So the way that Nick Siriani likes to talk about it is, you know, he builds the menu and the offensive coordinator calls the plays off of that menu, right? And it's not him just building it. It's, you know, a collaborative process, all these things. And I think that it's probably true that we don't give Nick Siriani enough credit for the offense. Yeah.

But, you know, we made a big deal last top season about this is the first time that Jalen Hertz gets to play a second year in a row with the play caller for the, like, since he was in high school. Okay, well, all of a sudden we're back to a new guy, a guy who he has a very long history with. You know that. And someone who was in the building and knows the offense and knows how Jalen thinks and works and what he wants. So it should be more seamless than other similar situations. But it is a bit of a guessing game. You know, Brian Johnson has called plays like here and there in college. He's never done it at the NFL level.

I think he'll be fine. I think he certainly has the tools to do a good job. He's got like the best ingredients if we extend the analogy. But it does sort of remain to be seen. It's not a, it's not a known quantity. I think there's so many things that kind of control for his performance in a way that it's not true on the other side of the ball. You have an Xiriana. You're familiar with the quarterback.

And there's so many different things that make me feel better about what this is going to look like, even though you lost your offensive coordinator. Anything else I'm not thinking about in terms of reasons this team won't be a contender in the NFC won't be a threat to go back to the Super Bowl? Because I think we hit on most of them. And I want to be clear, I'm optimistic about what this team is going to look like this year, but I think when you have a team that has most of its pieces back or a good chunk of them and had the success they had last year, talking about why they'll be good again to me

probably isn't the most interesting framing. Yeah, I know, and I agree with you. And I'm trying to think of it the same way because, you know, I'm a contrarian at heart. This team is going to the Super Bowl. It's conversation up your alley. I know it would be. I mean, it's the NFL.

Have you ever watched the sport before? It doesn't just happen that easily. The one thing that I would say is that, you know, after 2017, having been around that 2018 team, you know, they made moves that off season. You know, they bring in Michael Bennett. You know, they look like they upgraded in theory from Torrey Smith to Mike Wallace. And we're talking in the spring if this means that. that like is this roster even better than the Super Bowl roster?

Like it doesn't work like that. Yeah. And there are some, you know, obviously there was Carson Wentz coming back with the specter of Nick Bowles behind him. How does he handle all that? I do think that in terms of like the disease of Moore and is this team going to want it as much as they wanted it last year. Like I do, I do, I do, it's a little bit hokey, but I do sort of believe that Jalen Hertz's force of personality protects them from that a little bit. I think the coach probably too, right? I mean, like, he has a pretty substantial personality.

I guess a better way to describe it. But the two strong personalities of the core of this. And I do, but, but like, if you made me choose between the two of them, I think the team follows Jaylen's personality more than it follows next. That's interesting. That makes sense based on everything we've heard about Jaylen Hertz and kind of the magnetism that comes with him. Yeah. We'll see what happens. It's a fascinating team.

I expect him to be very good, but I think the holes are worth acknowledging because when you have a team that has these sort of aspiration, And the schedule is really hard. Yeah, totally. But I think the Eagles be a very good football team again this year, even with some of those concerns. Bo Wolf, really appreciate the time, my friend. I was good to see you. Thanks for having me. All right, joining us now.

It is our Jets writer here at the athletic. Zach Rosenblatt. How you doing, man? Good, man. It's great to see you. It's great to see you, too. It's good to be here. We're outside of the glorious Jets training facility in Florham Park, New Jersey,

after a nice and cool, mild training camp practice today on the eve of the bucks coming here for joint practices. Been a little bit of a different feel for you this summer, I have to assume. Did anything happen this off season? I mean, there's always something that happens with the Jets. Yes. Been on a bigger scale this year. I mean, the day before you got here, Dalvin Cook happened.

On my day off, of course, you know, I don't get any of those around these parts. But yeah, it's been fun, man. I, you know, a lot of people, you know, I think people who like follow football or even loosely follow football here that I have to cover Aaron Rogers and they'll be like, that's going to be stressful or annoying. It's honestly fun. There's more stuff going on, more people reading our stuff. Like, I enjoy it.

What is the biggest difference day-to-day covering a team with that sort of quarterback with that sort of visibility compared to last year or the year before? I've made this joke a few times. On a personal level, you know, I always joke that I didn't do TV because I have a face for radio. And I've been asked to go on TV like way more than I have my entire career the last like three months. So that's the biggest difference for me. But, yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's great. We want people to read our stuff at the athletic,

and we want them to listen to our podcast and stuff. And Aaron Rogers helps that. You know, he's controversial and all that stuff that comes with it. But it's fun. And then, like, watching a good quarterback in practice, like it, even when the offense isn't flowing and even when he's missing or whatever, like the passes are just like, not like any, it's like fun to watch him practice.

Yeah. He had a bad day, actually, today when you were here. But it's, it's, it's, I've watched him practice so many times. And it just feels different. Like, he's just, just trying stuff and it when you see a guy like that that has the level of command that he has watching a guy like that practice is is interesting even if it's not great every single day there's always something to take from it and it does feel a little bit different when you're watching a

quarterback of that caliber kind of go about his business and that's one of the questions that I have for you talking to people on the roster talking to people in the building how different does this feel when you have that sort of guy and the expectations that come with him I mean, you know, there's, you can take this as a positive or negative, but this team is talking about winning the Super Bowl. Like, they're not, it's a lot of teams shy away from doing that kind of thing. Aaron Rogers is pretty open about the fact that he didn't come here to just, you know, just wind down his career. And you've seen it like with the effort he's giving. I think, you know, it's early, but the most surprising thing to me is just been all the stories these guys have been telling about how he has kind of his hands in everything.

He's popping in the offensive line meeting rooms and running back meeting rooms. He's quizzing these guys and walkthroughs. There's all the hand signal stuff. And he's embraced this new environment that he's in. And I think that's been very interesting to see. But yeah, just the vibe, you know, everybody is really happy. And I think last year there was excitement because they had a lot of young guys. I think there was, I don't think anybody expected him to compete for the playoffs.

They wound up doing that and then they faltered at the end and all that stuff. But there definitely is a different feel because there's like a confidence in the court of that. They're like, okay, it's not like you have to progress every day. Like how's Zach Wilson doing? Zach Wilson, it's all right, Aaron Rogers, the quarterback, they can do a lot of fun things with this offense. Even when Aaron Rogers misses, he doesn't miss it in a way that, like, the defense can get to it usually. So like, you can just see it on the offense, the defense. He's pulling guys on the defense. If he throws a pass that beats DJ Reed, he's pulling DJ Reed after the

play aside and be like, all right, this is what you could have done here because he's trying to help them for when the season comes. And there's not many quarterbacks that can offer that. And so it's a positive thing for this young roster for sure. I can't remember who it was in the first episode of Hard Knocks, but it was a defensive coach. It might have been Jeff Ulbrick. It was Ulbric, was pointing out a play and practice. And he said, we're going to have a chance to win every game. And that level belief, when that sort of guy comes into the building, that's real.

That's very real. Everyone feels that. I think that in cases where this has worked, Tampa, for example, Denver, when Peyton Manning went there, you talked to people who were in those places, and you could feel it immediately. And I think that's the hope here is that it's not even just the on-field contributions. And it's not just going from the worst quarterback play in the league to potentially a top five, top 10 quarterback. It's the level of belief that kind of permeates every level of the building. Your day feels different if you're a member of the New York Jets now than it did last year at this time.

And I think that really does matter in ways that maybe we kind of overrate sometimes, but also underrate at the same time. Yeah, I mean, these guys are starstruck by him. You even saw it on the hard act except, like, Nicole Hardman goes up to him, and he's like, I've been watching you since I was a kid. And, like, there really is. Even like these guys that have been in the league for a while, you see Dwayne Brown, you know, he's been in the league almost as long as Aaron Rogers, C.J. Mosley, like, these guys are just talking about him in a way that, like, we've never played

with a quarterback like this before. Like, there's just, like, an energy like that. And the name, like, comes with it. If it was, you know, I don't know, another quarterback who's good, but doesn't have the same name brand as him, like, maybe that's not at the energy level is not as high. He's won four MVP awards. One, two years ago, like recently. So there's definitely a star-struck thing, and you wonder, you know, what does that mean when they actually take the field?

And if they are losing, like, how much does him being a star actually matter? But that's the most interesting. I think, you know, the Jets have been criticized a lot, both around the league and among, like, other fan bases. I think just let them have their fun right now. Like, this Jets organization has been miserable for a long time. These fans have been, they're the most pessimistic. and unhappy fans I've ever met for the most part. And Aaron Rogers is here and they're happy about everything.

So maybe it'll wear off quickly. I don't know. But let them enjoy this moment. And then you can make fun of the fact that they were predicting the Super Bowl in May in October. All right. Well, that's the good stuff. So now let's get past everything being hunky dory on offense and talk about some of the realities here. Yes.

Along with Aaron Rogers, a lot of moving parts. They fire John Benton, their offensive line coach, along with Michael Fleur, their offensive coordinator. You have a new offensive line coach. You have a new offensive coordinator. You have an offensive line that is decidedly in flux. It's August 15th, and I think this team has no idea what their starting offensive line is going to look like. They probably feel comfortable about the guys in the building.

I don't think they need to add anybody, but we don't know who the five are going to be in week one, and there are serious questions about this. So where in your mind are the holes, where are the potential pitfalls for this offense clicking into place even with Aaron Rogers here? So I think they feel good about the interior of the offensive line. I would say you have Elijah Verrett Tucker. If they keep him at right guard, you have Blaken Tomlinson. He had a rough year last year, but he's a pro bowler in San Francisco. And either Connor McGovern.

He's the guard. And Connor McGovern, solid veteran. Joe Tipman, they drafted in the second round. I don't get the vibe. He's going to start right out of the gate. But, you know, you draft that a guy high. And here he's talented. The tackles is where the big question mark is.

And it's been a problem since day one of camp. It's probably gotten worse, not better. when they talk about the best five and Robert Solis still trying to figure it out it's because of that you know you look at they've been doing Billy Turner and Max Mitchell back and forth at right tackle and left tackle which as I'm sure you've talked about on here plenty of times Billy Turner talked about the other day like switching back and is not easy alone no and neither of these guys like but they have to do that because whoever doesn't start is going to be like the swing tackle backup and it's little complicated and Dwayne Brown's not practicing so you need somebody at left tackle also so there's just like a lot of moving parts and it's it's concerning and McI Beckton, they don't feel like physically and stamina-wise and the way he's playing on his knee. They don't feel comfortable enough with him to put him with the starters for the most. But today he got his first starter reps. They don't play him at all a right tackle. And Dwayne Brown is going to be this team's starting left tackle.

So, Mackay is not really an option. So, yeah, Billy Turner, you have Max Mitchell. Billy Turner has not been very good the last few years in the NFL. He hasn't been very good. He was a spot starter even when he was playing a couple years ago. Probably not as your starter. And then Max Mitchell's guy, they drafted into the fourth round to be a developmental guy. They had to start him week one because of injuries last year.

year. So it's, and those guys have struggled throughout camp. So it's, it's a concern. And then, you know, the way they can rectify it and it's kind of floated. And I was skeptical that would be a thing, but as time goes on, they might have to do it is Elijah Verrett Tucker last year did kind of the impossible where he played right guard, left tackle, and right tackle within a six-week stretch. It was good at all three of them, which is almost impossible. And so they're at a point now where they have to at least consider moving him to right tackle. And they've talked about how they don't want to do that because they view him as an all-pro right guard. But if the best, five is your goal, you might have to do that.

So it's kind of the spot they're in. And, you know, they've, I've seen some criticism that they didn't invest in the offensive line. I think Joe Douglas has spent a lot of money and draft capital in it. It just hasn't necessarily worked out. And I think that they need this group just to be okay. It doesn't need to be the best offensive line. You just need to give Aaron Rogers time.

And if you give Aaron Rogers time, this offense would be very good. Yeah, I mean, by the time they drafted it in the first round this year, all those offensive tackles were off the board. They spent a second round pick on an offensive lineman. They've tried. They've tried to solve this problem as often as possible. but when you miss on a top 10 pick and when you have all these different injury issues they've had over the last couple of years, it's not an easy problem to solve.

So beyond the offensive line, you have a play caller coming in that the last time we saw him call plays was last year in Denver and did not go while. And so there's just so many unknowns with this group. The offensive line, the play caller, again, the offensive line coach didn't have a great track record over the last couple of years in Tennessee. I don't know. It just seems like even with Rogers coming in and all of the excitement, if I were a Jets fan, I'd just kind of be holding on in my hat with so many of these other factors, even if they probably don't want to hear that right now. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think the hack apart is a fair thing, though, to wonder how it's

going to look because, again, as you said, it was a disaster in Dem the last year. Sean Payton will tell you. I'd say the difference here, but it's also a new coach, is they brought in Todd Downing to be the past game coordinator. and I think he's very involved in like the play calling and the running of the offense. He runs the quarterback room. He was the offensive coordinator in Tennessee, which was one of the worst office in the league. He had a bad quarterback situation and all that.

So maybe that's like why they feel a little better about it. But yeah, I think it's fair to wonder how Hackett's going to handle those high pressure situations, which he did not handle well last year. The two minute drills, when to call timeouts. The reality and the difference here, though, is that Aaron Rogers is the one who's running the offense. It's a solid argument. Aaron Rogers is as much the offensive coordinator. McDaniel Hackett. Maybe they don't want to say that directly, but it's the reality.

They've worked together to construct this offense around what Aaron likes to do. There's some stuff from Hackett's career. There's some stuff from Downing. There's some stuff from LaFlor last year. But ultimately, this is Aaron Rogers' show. He's going to make the decision of what gets called in the games. He's going to make a decision of what they do in the two-minute drill in the red zone. So they're putting it all in the Aaron Rogers basket, which, you know, maybe some people are laughing at the fact that they're just doing whatever Aaron runs, but this is the Jets. They've not had a good quarterback in a long time. You hand the keys to Aaron Rogers and you hope it works. it doesn't, everybody's getting fired anyway.

That's a reasonable argument because we've seen it go wrong in a situation like Russell Wilson last year. We got to throw... Same offensive coordinator, yeah. Talk about the instances where it's worked out. You make that late career bet on a Brady or a Peyton Manning and you win a Super Bowl, but you do it with Russell Wilson. You hand the keys in the building to the wrong guy and you see how badly it can go.

We'll wait to see which one Aaron Rogers is in this context. Even with all the uncertainty on offense. I can't find a reason not to be excited about the defense. They won't be as healthy this year. That's it. I think we all understand that. It's not even interesting to say anymore. They're the healthiest defense in the league.

They will not be the healthiest defense in the league this season. A lot of averages, yeah. But even if they're not, it still feels like they're deep in all the right places. They have star level talent at every single level. What would you say is the biggest difference personnel-wise about what this defense looks like now compared to a defense that was a top five unit a year ago? There's not really much different personnel-wise. They brought back almost everybody besides Sheldon Rankins at defensive tackle and Quine Alexander a linebacker and Kwan didn't even play a lot of the snap.

So they brought everybody back and I think the biggest difference is all these young guys are a year older. I think Jermaine Johnson is ready to take off Carl Lawson. He has injured back right now. But in terms of his Achilles, he's healthier. They drafted Will McDonald, who I think looks like an absolute stud. Like he probably can't play him on run downs because he's as thin as you and me. But his like length and his bend and his burst off the line line line.

Guess what? You don't have to. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They have all these guys. Well, and the theory, but they said this in the post-draft press conference, but it surprised me. Joe Douglas was basically like, we plan on having a lot of leads. And so because we plan on having a lot of leads, we're going to be rushing the passer a lot. So we have, we have Will McDonnelly, of Bryce Huff, who had the fastest get-off of any defensive end in the league last year.

It's one of the most effective per-statt pass rushers in football last year. Germain Johnson, JFM, John Franklin Myers, you can shuffle inside, Michael Clemens, who they really liked from last year. You still have Conan Williams, who, you know, was maybe the best defensive tackle in the league last year. like that defensive line, just being a year better and deeper, is like the strength of this team. And then you also have, you know, sauce a year later. You have DJ Reed another year in the system. Michael Carter of the seconds and underrated knuckle corner. They have maybe a hole at safety next to Jordan Whitehead.

But, yeah, it's the same group. They decided to run it back. Like you said, you know, the injury stuff, they're probably not going to have that good of luck. Last year, they didn't force turnovers very much. And that would be like the biggest question mark if you want to say, like, can they carry it over this year? I'm going the other way. I think that's a good thing. There you go.

Because the fact that they were a top five defense in the game. didn't create that level of turnovers. If you're expecting regression in health, if you get turnover regression in a positive way, does that kind of come out in the wash? And this unit can again be one of those top three, top five groups in the league. And you combine that with,

just a potentially better, deeper group of pass rushers than they had last season. It was so funny looking at some of the numbers today when I was preparing for coming here. They were number one in the league in 2020, in Blitz, right? Number one in the league, because they had to be.

They just didn't have the pieces. And they like did it in Blitz. Last year, they were 27th. And because they had guys up front, like we can get after the quarterback. We don't need to do this anymore. And that group,

I think, is inarguably better this year. Carl Lawson is back. You have Jermaine Johnson taking a step forward. You have Will McDonald in this kind of like pure luxury role where you don't really need him to do much. You have those designated pass rush guys. Even if they sustain an injury or two to that group, you still feel like you'll be able to get after the quarterback.

And outside of like Dallas, Philly. maybe San Francisco, I don't think you can say that about really any other team in the league. And that's such a great starting point before you even get to the All-Pro corner and some of the other pieces on the back end. Yeah. Yeah. The depth on the D-line, and especially with, and Joe Douglas, you mentioned Philly. Like, he obviously learned a lot of this from Howie in his time in Philly, where you just load up on the D-line and then you figure everything else out. They got Soss Gardner fourth overall last year.

They spent good money on DJ Reed. He was better than I think they planned. You know, if there's depth issues at safety and linebacker, but I don't think they view those as important positions anyway. I also think that Tony Adams getting in. Tony Adams is at a really good camp. Undrafted guy they had last year. He's very athletic and versatile. Well, they traded for Chuck Clark.

It seemed like, okay, Chuck Clark will be the other starting safety. Chuck Clark turns his ACL. And then they so went out and signed Adrian Amos. I think, okay, that makes sense. Now you get your other starting safety. And the fact that Tony Adams has held him off, I honestly think that that, speaks better to the state of the defense than just throwing Adrian Amos into that spot. So there's just so many different spots where I'm like, man, they've got a guy here and a guy

here. And if they get an injury here, they'll probably be okay. It's just a hard group to pull holes in right now. And even defensive tackle, I went in being concerned about who they had next to Quinn. And Al Woods is 36. And they signed Quentin Jefferson also from the Seahawks. And those guys are playing in a defense that they never really have, or at least Al Woods has them before, which is very attacked.

the defensive line, they just tell them to attack, attack, attack, whereas he was just eating blocks in Seattle. And so it really does seem like it's rejuvenated out woods. He does not look like a 36-year-old. He's been really dominant, especially in the run game. And so you have the rotation at defense tack. You don't need to play Quinn and Williams 90% of the snaps. You can play him 75 or 70 or whatever it is. Keep him fresh.

And yeah, they just keep on coming at you. They keep on coming at you. And so I think that's why this defense, like, they could set a team record for sacks this year, I think. So I if you want to believe in this team, you start there, the defensive line is just unreal. And hopefully,

if it's a little uneven on offense at the beginning, which I think it absolutely might be, the defense can carry you, keep you in enough games early on. They did for eight weeks last year, yeah. Eight. Eight's probably being a little bit generous.

I mean, it's an interesting group. Yeah, oh, there you go. So I think that that's, you know, that's the biggest question is that

I have really high hopes of the defense. Even outside of like a catastrophic graphic rash of injuries. I still, I feel like this is going to be a good group. And if that's the case, then what can you get from the offense? Can this be the 12th best offense in the league by the end of the season? That's all you really need. You don't need a top five offense.

And if that's the combo, this is one of if not the best defenses in football and the top 12 offense, is that enough to win the AFC East? I mean, it's a good question. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, so they added Dalvin Cook yesterday. I was even looking at the weapons for each of the AFC East teams. And the Jets have pretty good depth at like receiver.

Like they, the bills don't really. The dolphins don't behind the dolphins have those two stars. Corey Davis is a nice depth piece to have on your team. Corey Davis is the fourth receiver. Like it's probably overpaid it for the job he has now, but he's a solid player. And so they have four receivers. They have the two star running backs, whatever breeze can give you. They have a couple of solid tight ends.

Like they have pieces everywhere. Maybe they're not like Tyree Kill. But this is like a solid group. Garrett Wilson has a chance to be a really good player. Yeah, Garrett Wilson has a chance to be that level of player. So I think they stack up, other than offensive line, they stack up with the bills and the dolphins in most areas, I think. Last question I'll ask you. Brise Hall was activated off the Pupplest on Tuesday.

This is they were here. How do you see those roles shaking out? This is a fantasy football center question. What is Brise Hall's timeline with Dalvin Cook in this building? How do you think ultimately the workload ends up solving itself? It is going to be one of the more interesting things I'm here. to see. I've been skeptical this whole time. Like they've been saying Breece Hall is going to play in week one this whole time.

Even if he plays in week one, which it sounds like he will, guys coming off ACLs just are not the same right away. Dalvin Cook is a really good example. That's Sequin Barclay across town, even better one. There's not the good first year back. So I was always skeptical of that right away. He'd be able to take on the full workload. So how I see it going is Dalvin Cook is the number one, the bell cow for four, six, eight weeks,

and then it slowly starts a turn. And then the second half of the season, you're seeing Breece Hall getting most of the carries is how I think it plays out. But it'll be a close to 50-50 split for a while. And, you know, they still have Michael Carter. They still have Zonovan Knight. They have an Izzyabonaconda. They drafted.

Like, they have other pieces too. This team likes to run the ball. I think, you know, even with Rogers, I think they're going to want to run the ball a lot. So I think both will get their share touches. But yeah, I think you'll see a shift at some point around halfway through the season. Makes a lot of sense. Zach Roseblatt. Thank you very much for the time, my friend.

Always good to chat with you. We'll catch up soon. All right, man. Sounds good. Joining us now from an idyllic spot here in the Buffalo Bills press box, it is our Bills writer at the Athletic Joe Blescalia. Joe, how are you doing? Oh, good, Robert.

Thanks for having me, man. It's good to be here. It's good to see you in your final days here on the Billsby before you go on your much-deserved paternity leave. I appreciate that. It's an exciting time. And it's exciting time in Buffalo, as it tends to be this time of year, because even though I would say the fervor around this team has maybe died down compared to what it was last

year, even the year before. This is still a team with justifiable Super Bowl aspirations, and you and I were talking as we were standing on the sideline, and I feel like the expectations really shouldn't be that different this year than they've been over the last couple of years. This team is deep in a lot of places. They added town in the offseason. I think they were really thoughtful about where they weren't good enough last year. How would you just compare the overall feeling in the building and even around town around this team now compared to what it might have been like at this time last year? Yeah, I feel like it's a lot of. I feel like it's a lot of. I feel like it's a little bit of almost as though a weight has been lifted off their shoulders.

Yeah. There were so many heavy expectations on this team last year. I mean, being the Vegas odds on favorites to win the Super Bowl last year, that's something that this organization hasn't had to deal with since the early next. Yeah. And they just, they were new to it. So I think that weighed on them a little bit. And I also think those expectations kind of covered up some of their flaws that

they actually had on the roster, which they have addressed. Like, I didn't think that they had enough from a depth perspective at the playmaker position. Like, the running back thing was always kind of a question mark. Like, who would have stepped up? Would Devin Singletary actually get that job done? How is James Cook going to figure in? Then receivers, like, is Gabe Davis going to be that guy like he was in the Kansas City playoff game, or is he just more of a, you know, good, not great starter?

And I think we saw a little combo of the two last year before. he got injured. But they went out this year and they went and got Dalton Kincaid, which I think he's going to be a significant contributor in his first year. And he has checked every single box they've laid out for him. They have gotten deeper at the receiver position as on the whole, Trent Sherfield is someone they love. He's going to factor in. Deonti Hardy's going to be a big play guy. Khalil Shakir is still there. And then they've beefed up their offensive line a little bit. So those were the main areas where they really struggled last year. And you could tell, like, there was a flaw to what they were trying to do.

They were trying to put it all on Josh last year. But I think they're trying to dial that back a little bit while still allowing Josh Allen be that franchise got for them. By the end of last season, the offensive line was really hard to rely on. Even when those guys were healthy. Saffold really kind of deteriorated down the stretch. Obviously, you know, his career probably coming to an end. Ryan Bates is somebody they matched his contract. I can understand it at the time.

but he's somebody that was, you know, didn't have a pedigree for a reason. And then you get to the end of the season, you kind of realize, like, man, this, this plan we had up front maybe wasn't good enough. And the same thing was probably true with the past catchers. And their inability, I started noticing this like midway through last season, where it just didn't feel like their offense was playing on time ever. The quarterback was skittish in the pocket because he didn't trust what was happening in front of him.

They really didn't have any immediate receiving options other than Steph Diggs, and especially over the middle of the field. So by the end of the year, this team has Roger Stafford really struggling on the interior. They tried out Cole Beasley to play snaps for them in a playoff game because they had no other options in the middle of the field as a receiving option. And so those two kind of deficiencies, that's what they went out and tried to change this year. And this was still the second best offense in the league last season, according to a lot of advanced metrics. So the optimistic case for this team and why in some areas they might actually better be better than they've been over the last couple years, I don't think that's overstating it. I really don't.

Yeah, they, I think, and those are all great points. I mean, this offense last year should have come under a little bit more heat than they did because it was just the word that I've settled on since last year is disjointed. It just felt like from drive to drive. You didn't know what you were going to get. Ken Dorsey was also trying to feel his way through his first full season as the play caller, so that was a big element to it. And I always found it kind of odd, like, oh, they have all these expectations.

but you're missing one of the most important pieces, which was Brian Dable. Yeah. So not having him and having to go through all that was a piece of the puzzle. So, yeah, I think seeing them kind of drift back into this, I don't want to say underdog because they, well, they thrive on this underdog mentality. And it's super cliche. I hate it. But it's, they love it. Even if they're not underdogs, they are somewhat overlooked compared to what it's been like over the last couple years.

They want everyone to continue talking about Cincinnati and Kansas City. And I think that's what people are doing. Yep. On offense, does it feel like the two rookies they drafted in the first two rounds are probably going to be starters within the first couple of weeks of the season? I know Dogg Cicade is essentially a nominal starter now. Sion's Torrance towards the guard they took in the second round. Do you feel like he will eventually win that job as the right guard?

I think he'll get in the starting lineup at some point, whether or not it's going to be right at the beginning. I don't know because they have had kind of a weird history with starting. first year offensive linemen. They didn't do it with Dionne Dawkins back in 2017. It took him, I think, like, one or two games to get into the lineup. Also a second round pick. Yes, also a second round pick.

They didn't do it with Spencer Brown. They waited to week four to put him into the lineup before they shifted Darrell Williams from right tackle to right guard, replaced Cody Ford, and this is all part of it, because it comes back to Cody Ford. They trotted him out there, threw him at right tackle, did like a platoon thing with Ty and Seki, and it just did not go well right from the start. So I think they want to be a little bit cautious and think about the long term because Ryan Bates is still serviceable. Yes.

And I thought his second half of last year was a vast difference from what he was in the first half of the season. He was trying to feel his way through it. So I could absolutely see them going into the season against the Jets on Monday night with Ryan Bates as the right guard. And then maybe like three, four weeks down the line because this is a thing about McDermott team. every single year, except for last year, because they didn't have anybody to replace someone, they have made a change for the rest of the season on their starting five of the offensive line. So I would kind of anticipate that that would be the move at some point, replacing Bates with Torrance if they don't feel fully comfortable with Torrance.

And hopefully you get to a place where if that happens, then, all right, we have interior depth now. Because Ryan Bates can be the backup center. He can be a backup guard. So a guy who started for you last year now becomes a backup. up. You sign Connor McGovern and free agency. So you feel like, okay, that Mitch Moore's Connor McGovern or Cyrus, Torrance with Ryan Bates's depth. We feel much better about that group than they probably have on the interior of the offensive line here in several years. And don't forget about David Edwards. I mean, he started. That's right. So many years for

the Rams. So, yeah, I mean, last year, their top interior reserve guy was Greg Van Routen. Yeah. And, anyway, due respect to Van Routen for what he did earlier in his career, just wasn't the same. He's getting up there. And I know he's, he's in Las Vegas. this now, but it's just, it just wasn't good. They didn't have someone to compel them to bench Sapphol or Bates, and now they do. So they can sustain an injury along the interior of the line. They can probably sustain an injury to a pass catcher here and there now. I mean, if you have two tight ends that you feel a little bit better about, Deonti Hardy's kind of a gadget guy, but with Kalilu Shakir now becoming your fourth or fifth receiver and then Sherfield becoming that third,

that number three guy, again, it just knocks everyone down a peg. You feel good about that. The tackle situation was probably the one spot where you're here every day, you're watching it. They no longer really have that swing tackle option because Brandon Schell kind of abruptly retired this week. So would you say among all the offensive personnel, that's probably the one spot you would feel most antsy about? It was their worst depth spot on the roster by a large margin before Brandon Shell retired. And now they have David Cuisinberry, who is probably going to be their third tackle

like he was last year. And I know that's something that Bill's fans absolutely detect. just because he was the guy that was responsible for Josh Allen getting hurt against the Jets last year. And I could totally, I totally understand where Bill's fans are coming from, but they like that he has experience, that he has versatility to play both sides of the left and right, and that they can throw him out there and they know that he's going to be assignments out. That's the case for Quesonbury. So I think he'll be on his team, but it's not great because you're dealing with that bad death.

you don't know what you're going to get out of Spencer Brown at right tackle this year because this is a huge season for him because he's been so up and down over the course of his career and past Cuesenberry you have like Tommy Doyle who's coming back from a born ACL he hasn't looked great so far in camp he's really struggled and you know you kind of feel for him because he's coming back from such a major injury but it just hasn't gone well they've got a couple of younger pieces that they might want to give time to but you know for for all things can considered tackle is a major area of concern. And I would not be surprised if Brandon Bean gets aggressive before cut down day comes and tries

to get something. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, Branchel, even though he was kind of a rotational piece over the last couple years, he started 70 games in the NFL over the last like seven, eight seasons. And that's a lot of time. And losing that guy, even if it doesn't seem like the most important thing, when you're trying to win Super Bowls, having those spots locked up is really important. Last question about the offense.

I feel like Dalton Kincaid, well, let's two. young pieces that maybe you could fit into a different sort of workload this year. Would you be surprised if Donald Kincaid was like the second most targeted player on this team this year after Steph Dix? I wouldn't, but I'm hesitant to go that far. Okay, all right, okay. Only because Gabe is on the field all the time. Yeah. Like, he is their best blocker.

That's a good point. He's got back to his roots too. So in 11 personnel, Dawson's still going to be out there. So those are the snaps that Dalton Kincaid loses. That's a very good point. Yeah, okay. All right. So I would take Gabe, but.

I think they're going to be in 12 personnel or what Bean calls it 11 and a half personnel. I think they're going to be in that a lot. So I would not be surprised if he leads, if, you know, everyone talks about, okay, who's going to be their wide receiver three? It's probably going to be Dalton. I think he'll lead the Sherfield, Hardy, Shakir, Kincaid, Klump in snaps this season. James Cook's workload. I think you feel pretty confident that he's going to be on the field a lot this year for what should be a very good offense. If you look at fantasy football, ADPs, all that stuff, he's still going pretty late.

And behind some guys that are not attached to offenses this good, what can people expect, in your opinion, from his workload and the way they're going to deploy him this year? I think he's going to be on the field a tough. And I think he'll be on the field in most situations, with the exception of short garbage. I think that's not an area where they feel as comfortable with his skill set just yet. So maybe that's a spot where Damien Harris or Latavius Murray. I think Murray has been better than Harris this training camp. Harris dealt with an injury for the last couple of weeks, but he got back today. But still, I think Murray's been the better player.

I think he's the better fit for their offense. But James Cook, I mean, he's so far in a way their top guy right now. Conservatively, I would say he's probably going to be on the field at least 55% of their offensive snaps barring injury. But you're talking about someone that they have trotted out verbiage, like Ken Dorsey, day three of camp, I think it was, saying potential to be a three down back, which is huge. Well, you know he's going to be on the field for the third down. So if he can handle the rushing workload, then it becomes, you can open a door to like a real workload for that guy.

And there just aren't that many backs around the league that you can say that about at this point, especially backs connected to this sort of offense. And I initially when I was looking at the moves they made this off season, the guards and getting Kincaid. My initial thought is they might have maybe be a little bit more physical around the a little bit more often. It doesn't feel like that's the case. It feels like that size that they added a guard is more about ensuring that the integrity

of the pocket holds up in a way that didn't last year. So maybe they're not the rushing workload overall, like spitting in between all three backs, isn't going to be higher than it's been in years past. But if he can get a bigger share of the snaps than that combination of Singletarian Moss did over that time, then we're going to see more production from a single bills running back than we probably seen over the last few years. Yeah, I would agree with that. Just because we really saw James Cook come on.

last year down the stretch of the season. And it's just a major difference between him and Devin Singletary. Like Josh Allen didn't target his running backs a ton when Devin Singletary was his guy because Devin Singletary was basically a checkdown option. You're not getting much out of that. James Cook, there was one play on this field, I think it was. It was an improvisational play. Josh Allen gets out of the pocket.

James Cook gets deep down the field, ends up bringing in a 40-yard catch. Devin Singletary is not doing that anytime soon. Do respect to him. He's going to be a fine little backup in Houston. But like James Cook has the potential to do that three down stuff. I think where they might worry is just pass protection. Sure. That's obvious for a young running back.

But I think wheels are up for James Cook. And what he could do in this offense this season, they're excited about him. I think it's notable that they didn't do anything substantial at running back. Like I know they were tied to a bunch of, you know, earlier draft pick names, but it was never serious, I don't think. James Cook is their game. guy, they want to see what they've gotten them, and I think he's going to get the opportunity this year. Defensively, a lot of the major pieces that we've gotten used to over the last few years back.

They got Jordan Poirer back, I think, surprisingly, they got Jordan Poir and Hyde on the back end. Trey White now fully healthy after coming back in the middle of last season. Some of the younger corners that they had to rely on at times last year got all of those reps, Kyrieu, William, Christian Benford. They're deep now maybe there in a way that they haven't been in years past because of that experience. The defensive line has 10,000 guys on it, which I think is purposeful. The real, the major personnel change on this defense from last year and even over the last couple years is

Tremade Edmonds leaving from being that middle linebacker. What does that situation look like? And are there other elements of the defense? Maybe I'm not thinking enough about when it comes to transitions. That is the biggest one. That in the second cornerback job, there are the two that are still kind of up in the air here. And that middle linebacker spot is probably their weakest starting position as we're sitting here today, only because they just have a bunch of options that none of them have really stood out. Like Tyrell Dodson has been here since 2019. Good run defender, not exactly great in past coverage, get bites on play action pretty hard.

That's what he did early in his career. That's what he's continued to do, maybe a step slow on getting to where he needs. to be. And Terrell Bernard, who they drafted in the third round in 2022, he sustained a hamstring injury Thursday before their first preseason game. Not great timing, especially when you're trying to win a job. And it's usually a two to three week injury. And, you know, a name to keep in mind here could be AJ Klein. He just, that scares me. He keeps coming back. But he has been with Sean McDermott so many years that there's just a level of trust there. Like he might not be able to run with everybody. He probably won't be able to run with everybody, but they know they can understand that

he's going to be where, be where he needs to be. I think the, uh, the one to keep in mind here outside of those three that could come to fruition down the line is their third round pick from this past year, Dorian Williams. He has mostly practiced on the outside. They really liked what he did in the first preseason game. I would not be surprised if they continue to add more to his play in practice during the year. Let him play special teams in the meantime. And if middle linebacker doesn't pop for them with Bernard, Dodson, or Klein, then he could be someone to keep an eye on a stretch. It's a lot of communication and just kind of mental stuff to put on a young player to beat the middle linebacker of this defense. But that's why you can rely on some of the guys who've been

here forever. I mean, Hyden Poir on the back end and the fact that Milano is there, it just feels like all of those guys from a between the years perspective can lift somebody who maybe doesn't have that same level of experience. Milano is going to be relied on so heavily this year, him and Taryn Johnson both. Taryn Johnson is another great example. Somebody on the interior where it's just like, all right, you're in one of those communication spots. You've seen a million different things within this defense. They have Taryn Johnson practice with the linebackers in positional drills for the most part. They have them go over with the DBs sometime, but when they're going through like movements and stuff, he's with the linebackers. So you're in the run fit, man. I mean, that's how it is.

That's his game. And he's in such a small, we were talking about this at practice. He's one of the most undervalued players on this team and he's probably top five, six players on the squad. He's fantastic. Based on what he does on a week to week phase. He's the nickel corner for people who don't know and he's really allowed them to play mostly nickel to everything over the last few years because even while undersized, he can hold up in coverage and he can hold it physically. And there just aren't that many guys who can do that.

And the funny thing about him is he almost lost his job back in, I think it was 2020. He got benched for Cam Lewis and Cam Lewis got hurt against Kansas City, 10 plays in. Taryn Johnson retakes his spot, never looks back. Has been awesome ever since. Slyding doors moments, man. That's how the NFL works. Up front, they went out inside Leonard Floyd. They may still have a lot of guys to throw at the pass rush problem.

It seems like come hell or high water, Brandon Bean is going to get through one of these seasons with enough pass rushers to affect teams in the playoffs. As part of that equation, though, what do you think Von Miller's timeline ends up being? He still was not practicing. It feels like there's a potential that they put him on the Pupp list. start the season? Like, when do you think we will see him again? I think they are smartly keeping that door open because if you ask Vaughn, Vaughn's like, oh, I'll be back. I'll be back week one. He's the most optimistic player I've ever been around and that's saying something. I don't know if it's realistic just because when he suffered his torn ACL was late November, just like it was with

Trudevius White last year. And I know not every torn ACL is the same. But they worked with extreme caution to get Trudevius White back on the field to make sure he was fully ready. He wound up not getting back until mid to late November last year. Now, I'm not saying that's going to be the case for Vaughn. I could absolutely see them going, okay, well, look, we want you for the playoffs. Exactly. We don't need to force these things. We've got Greg Rousseau who looks like he's about to pop for a really nice season.

They brought in Leonard Floyd. AJ Appanessa has had a nice camp. Boogie Basham has stepped up in the preseason. We'll see how much they get out of them. They still have Shaq Lawson kicking around there. I don't know if he's going to make the team, but he's someone that started for them down the stretch last season. So they've got enough guys.

And they've got a bunch of defensive tackles, which has got a really good defensive tackle group from one through five. So I feel like that they are setting themselves up to where they are trying to save Bond from himself a little bit. And get him back on the field down the stretch more than anything. For so many reasons last year, it just felt like this team was limping. to the finish line. And not feeling that way by the middle of December, I think has to be a priority. And if that means setting Von Miller for the first six games of the season, I can completely understand it. And there was another sneaky thing last year. The week that Von Miller tore his ACL,

Greg Russo suffered a high ankle spread. So I was going to talk about that because you look at those numbers and Brousseau was not nearly as productive when Vaughn left the field. And in my mind, because I'm not watching every single game, oh, well, the effect of having Von Miller on the field kind of defangs what Rousseau did over the first half of the season. But compounding that with the injury, and you can say that about a lot of guys on this team. Poorer was playing. Poorer was going to hurt last year. Gabe Davis had a high ankle sprain.

I'd all ever had a high ankle sprain. Gregor had a high ankle sprain. So this brings me back to this idea of you can really start to build the optimistic case here. Even though those guys were on the field, and everyone's dinged up a little bit. But those were serious injuries. Those guys were hampered. They're playing at 80% maybe of what you want them to be. So if they can be a little bit healthier, even with the guys who are playing, if they're

closer to 90, 95% by the time you get to December. You have depth in the right places. You still have the quarterback. You have a year or two of the play caller. Again, we can get to a certain level where you're telling yourself a story about this team and it gets pretty exciting, pretty fast, even if some of the shine has come off with them. Oh, no doubt.

Gabe Davis and Greg Rousseau were zapped last year by that high angles. It's hard not to be. It's such a terrible injury. It's really hard. And playing through it, like guys deserve credit for that, but you just don't look like the same guy. And they didn't. No, no.

But Greg Roussel, he looks like, and I don't like hyperbole, but he looks like a mini Mario Williams right now, just like from size perspective. He's longer than Mario. Yeah. I think he has all the potential this year to pop for his first double-digit sack season and be a consistent pressure producer as opposed to, you know, just bringing the quarterback down every single week.

I think he has all of that in front of them with what he's looking at. So, yeah, this, the optimistic viewpoint, and I know the teams in the division have gotten better, all three of them. The Jets obviously have, the Dolphins have, and the Patriots are trying to, it seems like they're going to have a better look at a competent offense is how old term is it. That's a gracious way to put it, yes. I think the upgrade of the offensive play caller is enough to feel much better about them right now that you did this time last year. Sure, yeah. But yeah, I think there is enough being talked about teams around the bills to where people are just kind of forgetting about them a little bit.

Like people are bullish on the Ravens this year because of Todd Monkin. People are really bullish on the Chargers this year because of Kevin Moore. Yeah. Fit with Kellan Moore. And then you add in the chiefs and Bengals aspect to it. No one's really talking about Buffalo, but they might wind up just sneaking into the AFC championship game or the Super Bowl this year. The last thing I'll ask you, you're here all the time. and I'm sure you have a better sense of this than anybody from the outside could.

Is there any sort of concern just about fatigue setting in with how the players are feeling day to day? And I say that kind of on the heels of what happened with stuff digs in the off season. And Sean McDermott is a trying to find the right way to say this. It's a demanding man. Like there is a harshness to Sean McDermin the way he goes about this. And we've seen this at times where you have players that you can, the continuity is great. It's really good that they've been able to keep this group together. But are we at a place maybe where things have run its course, where maybe it is reasonable to say that the shine should be off of them?

Their best chance is in the rearview mirror. Do you feel like overall just the vibe in the building and the players and how they're feeling right now has changed compared to what it would have been like over the last couple years? No, but I think you're onto something just a year early. I think this is a humongous year for so many different reasons. is the put-up or shut-up year, before things start getting real, because Sean is now not only the head coach, he is also the guy calling the plays on defense. Yes. The potential, I guess, scapegoat targets are dwindling.

The only one left in their bag now is Kandorsi, the offensive coordinator, because they're not going to fire Matthew Smiley, the special team's coordinator, and Sean's not going to fire himself. So, like, this is getting too. it where, okay, if they don't put up here and they don't make a move past the divisional round, that's the hugest thing. Like, I did a, I ran a fan survey like I, like I do every single year, and overwhelmingly, people would not be, would not consider it a success if they only get the divisional round. It needs to be championship game or better. Most were saying better.

But, yeah, that's the expectation here, and they've got the team to do it. There's, there's really no more excuses around it. They've got the franchise quarterback. He's in the prime of his career. He's now healthy again. They added offensive piece. pieces from skill position where they should be better in a lot of different areas and be multiple in the way that they attack people. The offensive line depth has gotten better. The defense has kind of stayed the same outside of Tremaine Edmonds leaving. They added more pressure by subtracting that piece at middle linebacker, and they've got a bunch of other pieces. So it's got to be the year for them.

Otherwise, people are going to start to ask some questions around here in Buffalo, but they still have that little bit of wiggle room right now. We'll see what happens when January or will. round. We certainly will. Joe Skyer really appreciate the time, my friend. Always good to see you. Always get to chat with you. We will catch up down the road. Sounds great, Robert. All right, guys, that's all we got. Thank you so much to Bo. Thank you so much to Zach. And thank you so much to Joe. Really enjoy chatting with all of those guys. That is all we have for now. If you have not been checking out our division preview series on the Athletic Football Show, highly encourage you guys to check those out. Our next one will be available on Tuesday. We will not have a show coming to you on Monday. So just go back and

revisit all the stuff that we've been putting out over the last week. That's like an hour and 45 minutes, which again, I apologize for. For now, that's all we got. Really appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.