The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Teams with the most at stake in the 2022 NFL Draft & remembering Dwayne Haskins with Rhiannon Walker

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

The storylines of the 2022 NFL Draft go beyond just the prospects. It could be pivotal for several teams around the NFL when it comes to setting a tone for a new coaching staff, correcting a previous wrong, digging out of a hole, or any number of other situations these franchises find themselves in. Robert Mays and Nate Tice bring their picks for their Teams with the Most at Stake during the draft before Rhiannon Walker stops by to share her experience with former Washington and Steelers QB Dwayne Haskins following his tragic passing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. Today's Tuesday, April 12th. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today is my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Doing great. Our pre-shows, I kind of referenced them sometimes,

sometimes we talk about, you know, music, talk about what we did the weekend. I am very, I'm in a great mood because we just got to talk about wrestling for about 10 minutes before we started this show. So I'm all giddy right now. It's funny because the conversation started. We were talking about a new wrestling podcast that came out, and it led to me admitting that wrestling YouTube holes and rabbit holes, they're dangerous. I mean, you can get down them very quickly. So we started getting in a conversational wrestling rabbit hole that ultimately had me close out like 10 Wikipedia pages right before we started recording because I was just reading about how old sting is.

That's where we were. You guys need a window into our thought process here before we start these shows. So just a heads up a little bit later on today's show, Riannon Walker, who was a writer here at The Athletic. and covered the Washington football team during Dwayne Haskins' tenure there, is going to join us, and just talk about what it was like to cover Dwayne and be around him. I just thought that after the news, obviously this weekend, the tragedy of him passing away,

I wanted to get somebody who could provide some perspective on what he was like as a person. Because I think that one of my main takeaways from this weekend is just that it's really important to understand and separate who these guys are on the field and who they are as human beings and how we talk about them in that way. I think that's been a big lesson over the last. few days or so. So a little bit later, Rian is going to join us

to talk about that. Before we do that, though, we're going to take a step back today away from the prospects in this draft. You know, when we've been diving

into the draft conversation here over the last few weeks, it's been pretty prospect heavy, especially with you and me. We talked about the quarterbacks, we talked about the receivers. There will be plenty more time for that over the next couple weeks

before we get to the draft, which I can't believe it's a couple weeks away, but it is. So here we are. We're going to talk from the team perspective today. Dig into some teams that really have a lot at stake in the 2022 draft. We're going to talk about the teams, the 10 to 12 or so teams that we think have the most at

stake and have the most on the line in this draft. Yeah. I mean, it's a year that seems like more teams with multiple picks. Yeah, it's a really weird year. And obviously we're going to dig into those teams. But, I mean, there are just so many teams in unique situations with their timeline and how much urgency they have. So there's no shortage of options here. And we're going to start with one of those teams that has multiple first round picks. I mean, the first team that came to mind when I wanted to do

this exercise was the New York Jets. You look at all of the picks they have from all of the deals that they've made. Right now, they have the fourth pick, the 10th pick, the 35th pick and the 38th pick. That alone. That's pretty fun. That it's pretty fun. That alone would put them in this conversation. but then you combine it with the urgency they showed and the aggressiveness they showed in free agency. Not a ton of crazy deals. They're not out here spending like the Jags are on players at the top of the market,

but they went out and signed several deals, several deals that are sizable, the Lake and Tomlinson contract. I mean, these are still $8, $10 million a year free agent contracts. So it just feels like where they are in their timeline, there was really only one place I wanted to start, and that's with the Jets and where they are right now. in their franchise.

Yeah, it seems like they're trying to build some momentum, if that makes sense. I kind of going like, all right, let's get the wheels turning a little bit. We already, we're starting to build the engine, but let's see if the engine works. That's what it kind of seems. So it's at this cog, what's at this cog. And even the tight end signings, I really like that, what they did with the Yuzama and Conklin, like signing those two and getting like maybe that's a shift and kind of how they're viewing their personnel.

And it's really what they're doing is going, okay, we, we have a quarterback on a rookie contract. Let's build around them. Let's see what we got. Use the money we have to fill some holes. Yes. And we've used Bengals as a verb a lot in the last year or so when you bangles your defense and you sign a lot of these guys to mid-tier free agent contracts. They've done that. The Jordan Whitehead contract is an example of that. They've bangles their tight end room with some of those mid-tier deals. And when you have a quarterback on a rookie contract, you can do that. You have the flexibility to fill some holes with that tier of contract. But in order for that entire plan to come together, you still need your superstar

level players on rookie deals. The Bengals version of this only works because they also have Jamar Chase to go along with the Chedobia Wuzier contracts and the Von Bell contracts. You need both sides of it. And now the Jets are tasked with filling out the other side of it. Yeah. That it helps when you're a quarterback and your top two receivers who are both like pro bowl level receivers are all first or second year players. That's pretty pretty nice situation to be in as opposed to what the Jets have Corey Davis's contract that they have on the books. I think it's not too bad. But, you know, it's still, it's a different way they've configured these guys. Well, they just lack young, cheap star level players because their first draft under Joe Douglas, it has not looked good so far.

I mean, we'll see what happens with Bexton, but the Denzel Mims has. hasn't played. Ashton Davis hasn't played. And then you look at last year. So Elijah Moore, you know, hopefully will become one of those players. They drafted Elijah Verit Tucker. You hopefully he gets there. But they spent a court, their second pick was on a quarterback. So that's, they lack it because they use the top five pick on the guy that they hope turns into their franchise quarterback. So this is a draft where they need to start filling out this roster with those sort of rookie talent high end players. And that's why it's so pivotal for them. It's almost, It's funny how the missing out on Tyreek Hill signaled where the Jets are thinking about their roster more than anything.

The fact that they were like, oh, yeah, we're willing to part with these guys and go after Tyreek Hill. It's like, oh, oh, the Jets. Okay. Interesting. That's not where I thought you were going with this offseason in New York. That's exactly why they're in this conversation because it seems like they have that urgency. So let's talk about the Tyree Kale side of this. Because if we're going through the needs that the Jets have and how this could go well for them, it feels like wide receiver is now,

people's minds because they were going after Tyree Kill, some reported potential interest in D.K. Matt Caff. I'm wondering how aggressive they're going to be for a receiver. Does it feel like they want to go get one of these guys in the top 10 or any of the guys in this draft worth getting drafted in the top 10? Was Tyree Kill kind of a unique piece and that they would go after him but they don't necessarily need a receiver of any kind? Because right now, if they have Elijah Moore, Braxton Barrios, Corey Davis on the tight ends. You could live with that.

It's not a great group, but you could live with that. So I'm wondering if this was a Tyree Kill or D.K. Metcalf's specific pursuit or if they're saying we need a number one receiver out of this draft. And that's what's interesting, especially with this draft class, and we talked about this last week, it's more guys that you'd be comfortable picking in the 20s than that's why I didn't pair any of the receivers with them. We were doing the receiver podcast. And Jets fans were so pissed.

It's like, well, I just don't think I wouldn't draft any of these guys at 10. It was all 15 through 30 is where I was thinking these receivers would go. And that's actually what's probably going to happen. It's going to go. I mean, I think it's going to be a machine gun of receivers in the second half of the first round. But it's, that's their no man's line. They have picks in the 30s and then they have picked 10. And so no matter what, I pick 10, even if I like Drake London, that's still a little rich, you know, just a little bit.

Like, you're not ideal. You'd rather have him at 18. And I know that doesn't sound crazy, but it matters. It really does because it's opportunity costs of other positions that you can be taking there. So if they really like a guy and to me, it's what I think they need, Zach Wilson, his college table's litter with this is throwing up 50-50 balls and then letting his guys go dunk on it. That's why you like Zach Wilson, was his ability to create and get off the rows and make

throws, getting the ball to his receivers to go make a play. So you kind of want to get guys that are good at that. And that's why I'd like to drink London with them. Again, it's at pick 10. They love them. Okay, go for it. But I like him more 16, 17, 18 if they can trade back to that spot. The other one that I would like, and I think we said this about every team with this guy is James and Williams.

Because that makes a little sense. But again, pick 10 is rich. It's just a little rich for a guy coming off in ACL. So do picks 35 and 38 turn into pick 19? And they go with three first rounders? That's the other thing, though. Financially, do you want to set yourself up with that? that where you have three separate fifth year options five years from now, that could be a headache

they don't want to deal with. But that was in my mind, it's like, right, if they really want to go get with someone like Jameson Williams, literally who's who I had in my notes, can you get back up into the first round to do that? Do you even want to do that? So when you have the capital, these are some of the things that are now on the table that aren't for other teams. They can go down so many different paths.

I think in a perfect situation is they take a defensive guy with their first pick, and that pick 10, they trade back. That would be perfect. That would be the perfect optimal scenario for them, I think, if they do want to go down the receiver path with one of their early picks. Really, just in general. But I also, yeah, you already mentioned it with the defense, though. Like, I did like how they bangles it a little bit. But I think they're in a position where they go BPA with all these picks.

They can go with best player. But the receiver has to make sense. I think they do need one now. Like I, now that, like, at first I was like, well, they got the tight ends. They don't need a receiver. But then you look and you're looking at what the guys they have, it's like, they get a little more juice. I wouldn't hate if they had just a little more juice at that position, especially to pair with their young quarterback. So, and also just to take away any, you know, any type of, I would say concern, but going like, well, Zach Wilson doesn't have the excuse if he doesn't develop how we thought he would.

It feels like to me, corner is still a huge need for them. And they're in a position with this draft where they're, by all accounts, are multiple top 10 prospects at that position. Pick 10 could be perfect for one. Could you take Sauce Gardner with the fourth pick? Yeah. If you wanted a long corner, which in this defense and with this particular coaching staff has a lot of history and going after players like that. So that to me is still the one that I keep coming back to. You know, past rusher has been mentioned a few different times and they were apparently in the market for some guys and are looking for more help there.

I'm wondering how that fits together because they have Carl Lawson coming back. They sign John Franklin Myers to that deal. Do you feel like you want to bump him inside and have another edge? Is that worth a top 10 pick? I just don't know exactly where they can go. because I think they're in a position where they could try to draft players at high leverage positions, right? They wanted to go get a tackle. George Fant has a million dollars in dead money left on his deal.

We don't know what's happening with Mackay Beckton. So it doesn't feel like they need to draft a receiver with one of those top 10 picks based on some of the other needs they have. Yeah. I think pick four is like whoever just falls to us. Someone else gets too cute. Take the best guy we have on our board. It doesn't matter what the position is. If it's a tackle, it's a tackle.

We deal with it. If it's an edge. If Tibiddle falls to us, we take him. if there's another guy we like. If we do want to juice up our secondary, maybe go with a guy. There's another guy like Derek Stingley, who seems to be getting healthier. Which other corner you like, right? Yeah, they just have so many paths.

And I mean this all as a compliment. We're making it sound like, oh, these are, it's question marks, but these are all like, this is a good situation to be in. 100%. It's a good situation. I don't want to like Jets fans and jumped up. They put themselves in a good spot. They have all of the resources that they have.

They haven't leveraged themselves in a bad way with the contracts that they've handed out. You know, they haven't been quiet in freeations. but they haven't gone crazy either. Which is what you want. That's why this draft is so important because now you have all these picks. Can you hit on three of those four picks and really put yourself in a good spot? And then obviously the biggest wild card with all of this is do you help out your quarterback? Do you remove doubt with your quarterback's development and what he is?

At the end of this season, have you helped him enough? And is that part of the reason they want to go get a receiver? is like how does that fit into this? Do you from this draft come away with a set of players where you can sit there going into training camp and even after the season ads and say, we did enough to help him. Now we have an idea of who he is. Because I think that is still the central question of all of this independent of the players they come away with. That's, and I kind of hit to that a second ago.

It's like that's what they're doing. They're taking, it seems like that they're trying to take any excuse possible. And now they can properly evaluate him and then whatever the situation is, as long as he's healthy. That's what it seems like. And that's the luxury that they've given themselves. Not a lot of people get that. A lot of people have to keep kicking the can going to go, oh, I think he's okay.

Well, maybe if we get a couple of offense alignment, it'll help him. But I think that's what the Jets are trying to do is go like, hey, let's make sure the rest of the team is good to go. And then we'll figure out what's going on behind center. So the Giants also have two top 10 picks. They're just in a different situation to me. The urgency isn't even close to the same way that it is with the Jets. The Giants have spent no money this offseason for a bunch of different reasons. They don't have any money.

So that's part of it. But they're also setting themselves up for next year. I just think in the timeline of their team building process, this is a fine building blocks draft for the Giants. Because they're starting over potentially next spring. With a couple little strokes of the pen, they can have $120 million in caps race. They can just hit the reset button.

So right now, if I were the Giants, I would just be in fine players mode. We'll figure out all the rest of the, of it a little bit later. So because there isn't as much urgency and the timeline is different, they're not in the same category really to me as the Jets, even though they have two top 10 picks. Yeah, I think their number one thing they're trying to figure out this year is can we build around Daniel Jones or do we next year or next off season, are we looking somewhere else?

I think that's number one. I mean, that's everyone figuring out what their quarterback is. And they're in a situation that that could really work out either way. Either it's like, wow, we really worked with him. We figured out something that he's good at. We've narrowed down what he's bad at and blah, blah, blah, blah. We can build around that. Or it's like, well, screw that.

Hard reset, reboot this whole thing. Let's see, like, what's see what Caderius Tony looks like in a more imaginative offense. You know, what pieces, what little tangible guys that we have all around on offense and defense and see what they can do. I think that's what they, and they got a good coaching staff. We keep, we've mentioned it several times. That helps in the evaluation going like, hey, wink, what do you, what do you think about these guys?

Oh, we got to move on. We need someone better at the linebacker. We need somebody better at safety, yada, yada, yada. We can lead to those discussions. I think that's where they're at. where they're at. I think that applies to the quarterback too. Because now if you believe in your offensive staff and you think this group is going to put him in a much better position than the last group did, by the end of this season, you have a pretty good idea of whether Daniel Jones is going to be your guy. It's always a question of when this regime has no ties to him and no investment in him, I just think that more times than not, it ends up with you moving on.

You don't have any reason to chase it when this group has no. incentive for him to succeed outside of we have him on a rookie contract and we can have him for a couple more years. If you're evaluating a guy that's your guy, everything's glass half full and you're like, well, you know, the receiver ran the route short. So, you know, it's going to be better next year. But then if it's glass half empty, then you just go, you know, the quarterback, he just can't make that throw. That's just that's exactly how it goes. That's why those arranged marriages work out infrequently because there's just so little incentive on the new staff to do everything they can to make it work.

Another thing with them, too, is that I really want to, I would love for them. I think this is every team. It's always the, like, optimist's view. It's like, oh, I'd love for them to trade back. I would love for them to trade back with one of their first rounders because just for next year. You try to pick up for one extra year. Yep. Get as many picks as possible for this year and next year.

Just keep building. You know what you are as a franchise. I would love that for them. The nice part for them is, even though they're against the cap, they've invested a lot in this current version of the roster, even if it's a temporary. investment. Right now, there are no expensive players or veterans blocking guys at tackle and corner. If they wanted to go that route this year, even if, again, you're trying to hedge your bets and play this weird middle ground between two versions of the roster, you can do that

definitely if you pick a tackle in a corner because those guys can start right away. You have no $25 million players like Leonard Williams blocking either one of those guys. So I think even though the house is kind of half built, it's built in a way that allows them to chase players at high value positions right now. The bathrooms aren't finished. Yeah, exactly. Yes. You have incentive to build the bathrooms and that's exactly where there's a little bit of wiggle room. So I think that actually works out pretty well because this is with the assumption that James Bradbury eventually gets moved. I just think that he, if you look at the financial realities of it, it just feels like they were incentivized to move on from him and to give themselves

a little bit more wiggle room. So if they do that, I mean, Dorrit Jackson, they can't really move on from him. It's just, the team is littered with horrible, horrible deals. So if they move Bradbury, you can just slot whatever that top 10 pick is into that starting corner spot. And then your right tackle is the guy you draft fourth or 10th overall, whatever. It actually works out okay. And two premium positions.

It's like, okay, that's fine. You're fine taking those guys early. But you don't have to do that. No, because again, you don't have to act on this version of the roster if you don't want to. in that situation. It's not the worst case scenario. All right. Let's talk about another team that also has two picks near the top of the draft. A team we have not talked about at all. I can't, I don't think we've spent more than 30 seconds on this team since the offseason started outside of the one huge move that they made because they haven't done anything worth talking about.

And that's the Texans. So after the Watson trade, they now have number three and number 13. They have 11 picks, including an extra third round pick in the Bradley Roby trade. The Saints are just missing picks. Always. It's like, why don't they have that third round pick? Oh, that's right. They're traded it for Bradley Roby. And he's not on the roster anymore. That's how the Panthers were too. Anyway, and they got, they also got an extra fourth in the Watson deal. So that's right. There's not a ton of urgency from the Texans here. They have multiple first round picks coming. Not that they're trying to make you think otherwise. And they're not, right? They're not at all. AJ Can is the biggest outside deal they signed in free agency. It was two years and eight million. They have first round picks coming for the following two seasons in the Watson. move. So they, there's not a lot of fire under their asses to make something happen. At the same time, though, at a certain point, these have to become players. Like the picks have to become players. You have to start adding talent to your roster. And that's why I think they're worth mentioning here, even if they're not up against it the way that some of these other teams are that we're going to talk about. Yeah. And even like, it seems so funny for a team that just traded Deshaun Watson. Like, you'd be like, oh, man, they're going to really look at a quarterback. And I don't think they're,

they're going to give Davis Mills a chance. And I get it, which I can, I get it. I get it. Like, look, comparing Davis Mills to this class, he'd be right in the thick of things. So, so and he did enough as a rookie that you would look at him and go, okay, I'll give you another year to start. If you're going to give Jaylon Hertz keys to the castle, you know, to do a keys to the castle. Is that even, that's a phrase, right? Yeah. That's, that's a phrase. Yeah. It sounded weird. But to, to do what he wants to do, like in Philly, who made, that's a phrase. That's, that's phrase. It sounded weird. But to do what he wants to do, like, in Philly, who made. the playoffs last year. And I know they're in a totally different situation. But still, with the Texans, like Davis Mills had enough flashes to show that he can be a to competency at least. That's like, all right, let's give you another shot at this. So that's kind of what's interesting about them. Because usually with these teams that are blowing up and nuking it, you're like, well, quarterback, got to answer that. Damage is like, you could see them going down several different paths. I did sign Obu Okaraku Ocuro, Okuokwo.

He was my pick for the Millsap Doctrine to maybe, you know, break out with a little more tangible role. But it was only a one-year deal. I was hoping they'd go to more of a contending team. So maybe a breakout that sense. But they can go a premium position early if they like one of the tackles. I know what they're doing. Larry Tunsell. Pass rusher.

They can do. Pass rush. So Tunsel just restructured his deal. Okay. So he's more likely to be around into the future. But they still need a right tackle. They could go any direction. Anything is on the table for them at 3 and 13.

Do they want to go get a pass rusher with that third overall pick? Do they go get another receiver with the pick that they got from the Browns? Because they're in range to go get one of those guys if they want to, even after signing Brandon Cooks to an extension. Anything is on the table for them. This team is weird as shit. It is. They have $35 million, excuse me, 5-4-3.

They have $51 million in dead money right now, which is second in the NFL. because the Watson deal moving on from Zach Cunningham, Whitney Merciless, there are so many contracts that they've had to eat because of the last regime. So they have $51 million in dead money,

which is second in the NFL. They're set to have $120 million in cap space next year. Laramie Tunsell is set to have a $35 million cap hit next season. And they restructured it. You think, why would you restructure his deal

when you're a terrible football team? It's because they have $51 million in dead money. They're just in such a terrible spot. And that's why this is always going to be a slow played thing. It was always going to be that. There is no urgency. But at the same time, they have to start getting players. At a certain point, when you have multiple first round picks, those have to start

becoming building blocks. And that's why I think they're worth mentioning. No team in the league, I thought this was fascinating. Over the cap has a tool that's really interesting if you guys want to go ever look at it. It's roster texture. And it lays out what tier of contracts make up. NFL rosters. So no team in the league has a fewer percentage of their players on rookie deals or a higher

percentage of their players on low value contracts as defined by over the cap, which makes total sense because the Texans have traded all their picks away and they know they're not going to be good. So that's exactly where this team is right now. They're built on 75 to 78 overall guys. I'm madden. Like that's the second straight year. But at least this year they have picks.

Yes. Last year they had no picks. So now you're jumpstarting the rebuild in a slightly different way, even if it is still a long-term rebuild. That's what happens when Davis Mills is your quarterback and you've handed out no contracts and free agency again. God, I know. I got excited about the obo signing. And then I was looking at how I was like, who else they signed. And it was like, okay, re-signed Brandon Cooks, I think.

And then it was really that's. They brought back Brandon Coox. They signed Jalen Reeves, Maybin, to a two-year contract extension. and they cite AJ can to a two year $8 million deal. That's it. That's what they did, this off season. Yes, because they don't really have a lot of wiggle room to do much else.

Just hanging out in Houston. It's almost like every single, it's almost like we could have seen this coming with the last messages of the Bill O'Brien era. Right. Like maybe indicated a couple things. Yeah. You can go back and listen to some podcast that Aaron Reese and I did at the time.

And there are receipts about how bad this could potentially turn out. I mean, this is not shocking to anybody who is paying attention. All right. Nope. So another team that has multiple picks up near the top of the draft. I'm just making some trades are the Seattle Seahawks. I think having three picks in the top 41 puts them in this discussion, even if I have zero idea how they're going to approach this. What do you think the Seahawks think they are?

Man, that is a great question. I think they think they're like a step away. for my compete not competing but I don't know but they're they're built to be like a they think I think they're acting like they're a playoff team like I don't know some of the signings they're doing and what they're whispering and stuff like that but then they just don't have they've drew lock a quarterback I don't know like this is one of the weirdest situations and rosters I've been trying to figure out I was on Jeff Schwartz's a podcast last week and I him and I said to him I was like he was like would the Seahawks go quarterback I was like maybe they might think drew lock is the guy

Who knows? Like Pete Carroll like says everything at once. Like I don't know how to like discern it. Their moves seem like they're, they feel like they're a step away, but I don't know what that step is like you said. So weird, weird roster. It really is.

They bring in like Austin Blythe on a one year deal. You know, maybe he'll play center for them. It's like, okay, that's a move that a team that's being patient would make. And then they sign Will Disleet to a multi-year extension. It's like, all right, well, I don't really know how to square these things that they're doing. And that's the problem is that they, made moves that seem to be on either end of the spectrum.

And it's hard to understand where between those two points they believe that they fall. If they think, all right, it's quarterback time. If we get our guy, we can do some stuff right now. I think that's misguided. But if they believe that, then they have a ton of stake in this draft. Because it's their move at quarterback. I feel like they would be well served to just say, you know what? We'll roll with Drew Locke for a year.

It's not going to be great. maybe we can talk ourselves into what he looked like in this offensive system with Rich Skangarello a couple years ago. If you're trying to see that half glass, glass half full sort of mindset, they use the 10th overall pick potentially on a tackle, which is to me the most glaring need they have on the entire roster. And they say, we'll take a couple lumps this year. We have multiple high picks next year, including multiple first rounders. And we'll see what happens. That's what I would do. I have zero idea if that is aligned with their thought process.

and their opinion of themselves in this moment. Yeah, because a lot of the other moves is like the quarterback regardless. Like bring her back quandary digs for a decent chunk of change is kind of like a newosu contract. Nuwosu. Oh, my God. Yeah. And not really kicking the can on the DK Metcalf stuff like that, you know, or answering those calls.

It seems like always publicly that I don't know. It really seems to me it's like if they don't go quarterback at nine, they're swalling it, throwing out Drew Locke there. And they're just going, well, we'll deal with this next year. we'll regroup next year because otherwise unless they're optimist you know optimist about drew lock which you know has anyone that listened to this show since day one knows i am not as much uh but it's just a strange strange roster because they have a lot of short-term moves uh one side of their mouth and a lot of the other side of their mouth is like oh no we're regrouping our own entire team so i honestly

couldn't even tell you like gunned ahead it feels like they would be the type of franchise that would talk themselves into the idea that it was more important to have baker mayfield than it was to have Drew Locke in order to maintain some semblance of organizational culture in terms of winning. Like we're trying to win. We want to put the best quarterback possible out there because we're not willing to be. That's the message. We're not willing to be bad. Yeah.

I don't know if that's ultimately what ends up happening or where they end up going at that position. But if they don't draft a quarterback and they're just kind of sitting back and waiting to see how this all unfolds, that wouldn't shock me as a mindset from them as an organization. Yep. They could do three different things. They could go quarterback. They could go on the baker or they could go with Drew.

and drew lock and I would just be like, yeah. Like that, like all of them, none of those doors would surprise me if they opened it. Keep Seattle weird. Yeah. It's, you're 100% right. Like any of the doors they end up opening, I'd be like, okay, I guess that makes sense. I mean, there's just, it's very hard to understand what they're trying to do right now. I'm trying to figure out after the Wilson move.

All right. Let's talk about the Saints because I think by making the move that they did, the Saints threw themselves onto this list. Yeah. They kicked that door down. We're talking about doors opening. They were like, yeah, no, we're doing stuff. But what is that stuff?

We haven't discussed this. And we haven't discussed the move and some of the fallout from it since it initially happened. Dan Jermarai tweeted last week that he talked to multiple GMs and it sounded like this is a team that thought they were close in the NFC. And that if they can get multiple contributors this year, can it put them over the top or can it kind of put them in the conversation in the NFC? I feel like I'm being gaslit. Yeah. From a process perspective, that is so suboptimal that it's hard to believe it's true. Part of me is just sitting here thinking like, no, I'm not going to believe this.

You cannot intercept me into thinking that this is right. This has to be for a quarterback or it doesn't make sense. But there is a chance because they do not operate like everyone else. I can understand them talking themselves into the idea that, okay, in that range, if we get a left tackle and a receiver, we can compete in the NFC right now. our defense is good enough. Those are our two biggest glaring holes. I can understand them getting to that place. I think that's the wrong way to go about it.

But I do think that the rationalization from their end is possible based on their history with the way that they do things. Are they think like that 2017 draft? Like that just happens every five years. Like they're like, hey, they're like Haley's Comet. Like we just mail a draft. I made the joke last week. They're just huffing fumes off that thing. And Mickey Loomis.

is just what's his name from almost famous? It's like, I'm a golden god standing on top of the roof on LSD. Like that's kind of what this feels like. I dig music. My wife and I watch that. She's never seen it like two weeks ago. We just watched it. So it's funny.

You just brought that movie up. But it's honestly, this is like the Seahawks for the 2012 draft. They're like, oh yeah, this happens every couple years, right? You just nail on like three Hall of Fame talents. And also without Sean Payton,

they could go down. I honestly, the first message that comes out, it's always like, that's who's trying to guide the narrative, whether it's from a team or an agent or yada yada from the league. And the fact that the first smoke message was, nope, they're not trained up for a quarterback. That's why my alarm bells are going on. Same. The fact that came out so quick was like, hmm, that because that, like you said, that's so suboptimal that it's so hard for me to justify a team that even if they are, they beat to,

you know, they march to their own beat like the saints do. do what they want to do. And they certainly do. And that's important to keep in mind as we're thinking about this. It just, it's like, that's, that's a way different beat. I mean, that is like totally off-kiltered, like from what I would expect a team to do. They might, it just doesn't smell like that. It just, it smells like another move is coming. It just does. And that's why I'm going to keep saying until in three weeks from now when you're here, or a couple weeks from now when you're here in Vegas and I look at you and go, I guess they are taking a tackle and a receiver in the first round. and maybe that is what they're doing.

So who knows what the Saints are right now. No matter what, either of those timelines, there's a ton at stake. Oh, yeah. Because you're either making a bet on your next quarterback or you've traded away your first round pick in next year's draft and you have made it so you need to hit on those two guys in order to make this worth it. And that's a position you've never want to be in. But there's a chance.

They've looked at the entire chess board. They've thought about the players they have on defense, the fact that they're getting a little bit older. You're like, you know what? We have a chance right now to make this happen. That's an incredibly risky way to think. But either way, they have given themselves a huge sense of urgency as it relates to this draft. Yeah, it was like, it was like they got bored playing blackjack.

And they're like, let's go play craps. Like that's what they did. Like they were just like, oh, this is boring. Or they were playing blackshap. And you know, I'm just going to put everything I have on this last hand. You know, I've been here for too long. This is boring. Playing like 20 bucks a hand.

just isn't worth it anymore. The juice is not worth the squeeze. What's the table max? What's the table max? Yeah, I'm putting that on. Like, yeah, that's, it just seems like, and this is without, like, it's not like the whispers are coming. Oh, this is Sean Peyton's last year.

He's already gone. It's, it's weird. It just seems like they're, they should be regrouping and said they're like, now, we're doubling down. So it's one of the most curious teams and the team that it was already curious before because it was like, okay, this is a new step for the franchise without Sean Peyton. What are they going to do at quarterback?

That's always going to be the first question with team. teams, but now it's like, now the questions are different than what I was expecting to ask a couple weeks ago. So it's, yeah, very, very interesting team. Well, they also gave James Winston a two year $28 million deal. He has a million dollars in dead money. He left on the deal after this year. So if they trade for a quarterback, that doesn't make a ton of sense. I just don't really understand exactly what's happening. That leads me to believe that it actually is for two players and they want to go chase those two guys. But the process of getting there, I think, leaves a lot to be desired. They're just, again, they're in their own zip code. They operate and they operate and

own way. They are 31st in the percentage of their players on rookie deals, which makes total sense when you trade all your picks away. But there's a chance. Like, you know what? We need a couple cheaper players on the roster. Just the way they've gone about it is so confusing. So we'll see what ends up happening. But either way, there is a lot on the table for them right now. Okay. The Kansas City Chiefs have to be in this conversation just based on the sheer amount of picks that they have. They have four picks in the first two rounds. And this to me is just, this is Chiefs 2.0, here we go. Like, this is what the next stage if it looks like and what this draft ends up being is a huge piece of that. I mean, this is going to be the pivot point

from the first era of the Mahomes time in Kansas City to the second era. And that's why this is a huge, huge draft for them. Yeah. And we say reboot sometimes in, you know, movies they call it like, or franchises, they call it a soft reboot. You know, it's like it's a remake, but it's also a sequel at the same time kind of thing. A couple of characters you recognize from the old movies, new main cast, like a James Bond movie. Like I'm just rolling with this metaphor. It's like the Mahomes is James Bond.

They got the same M, the same Q, but then they got new, you know, new Bond girl, new villains. Like that's kind of what it feels like a little bit with the Chiefs. But they're in a good spot to replenish those positions they need, you know, defensive help. If they want to go with another alignment, they want to go receiver. They're kind of sitting in that nice area for those positions, especially in this draft. it really seems to me that they're all in on this and having these receivers be more of the big body guys that I like.

Like really, it's really kind of fun is that they're going for power slots. They're going for juju and the MVS of the world. And MVS is people know them as a vertical guy, but that guy can block his ass off. And going with them, those two guys that are basically de facto tight ends with Kelsey as their split out receiver. So it's the only receiver they've had on a top 30 visit so far as George Pickens, which I, I think is very interesting because if that's their guy that they're tabbing, I know top 30 visits can be you bring a guy in for a million different reasons, medical. We want to have a deeper interview with this guy.

Oh, this guy's a late day three guy that we're interested in. Smok screen. It could be a million different things. But the fact that they're having him in, that's another guy that could be a power slot vertical guy. So it's interesting that they're really maybe leaning into that type of body type at receiver. After the last few years, they went speed, speed, speed, speed, speed. So very, very curious about philosophical change with their offense.

And it's, yeah, like you say, it's a little replenishing, rebooting 2.0 version of this Chiefs team. Well, the receiver, it's easy to kind of point to that because where their picks are is where we expect some of these guys to go. The fact that they traded away Tyree Kill. It's tempting to just say, okay, how do they replenish the receiver room? But for me, those four picks are about replenishing the rest of the roster. Yes.

Because their problem is outside of Mahomes being on a huge mega extension, they have a ton of expensive players. They're third in the percentage of the elite level contracts they have as it relates to the rest of the league. You look at some of the deals that they've handed out. Chris Jones is on that massive contract. Frank Clark's on a big contract. My home's on a big contract. They need to offset this with some cheaper players, not just at receiver, but look at the secondary.

I mean, you lose 600 snaps of my cues. You lose 900 snaps of Traverius Ward. Can you go get a cheap first or second round corner? they've gotten by with scraps at cornerback under spagnolly. There's a chance that's a philosophical thing that they continue to do. But can you go get some cheap rookie contract talent at cornerback? Can you go find another edge player that you desperately need? This is a chance for me to replenish the defense as much as it's your chance to replenish

the receiver room with some cheap rookie contracts. We talk about defense being it's team stuff. It's a team thing. That's why ebbs and flows so much from year to year. But it's really, yes, stars matter. Having Aaron Donald and Jaylon Ramsey makes your life a lot easier. But most defenses live and, you know, thrive by the weakest link. The chiefs have six picks, six picks in the top 103.

So they have really six top 100 picks. Like that, these are the guys. You get a lot of starters at a pick 50, a pick 62. You can get starters on defense at the, especially in the front seven. Like just anything. They need bodies and they're trying to get cheaper bodies. Like you said, bringing up the Mahomes deal. they live in a new world now.

This is the path that they're on. So yes, this is how they're going to go about it. Is they like, hey, maybe we package two of the guys up if we really like one guy. But I don't see them doing that. I think they just need bodies throughout the rest of the team. And they're just trying to lift that floor up, I think, with the rest of the team. This to me is a pivot point for the next three, four years for them. It's a long view thing.

The Packers are in a similar position with even more urgency because of the Aaron Rogers side of all of this. it's not a four to five year looking forward projection based on this draft. It's zero to one. What can we get right now? Because they also have four picks in the top 60. And where with the chiefs, like, oh, you know, maybe they go with a receiver. But I also think they could use a corner and they can use an edge player. They can go all these different directions.

And it all makes sense. Packers almost need one. Yeah. The Packers need one right now based on their timeline, their needs, everything else. So they're in a similar position with even more incentive to get this figured out quickly. I mean, Matt LaFleur at the owner's meetings essentially said, we need more speed at receiver and we need to be able to integrate one of these guys quickly. If they don't pick a receiver with one of those two first round picks, I would be absolutely shocked. I don't feel that way about the chiefs.

Yeah, the chiefs room, even without Tyreek Hill, is way better than the Packers receiver room. As much as they stole MBS. They have MBS and the Packers don't. They swapped them over. Exactly. And yeah, so it, the weird thing with the Packers, though, is they have, you know, they're a franchise that really like. their types at each position and not just receiver, but every position. They have guardrails, as some teams call it. I like to call it thresholds. And they like bigger receivers. Like they have

basically a weight threshold. Even with Amari Rogers last year, he's smaller, shorter, but he's still thick. Like it's still like 210. They like their 200 plus pound receivers. So it's almost read between the lines. You can start narrowing down what types of guys they go for. Like, and that's why it's interesting is, what if do they go for a skinny receiver? Like, what if Alave or Garrett Wilson fall to them. Do they take the guy or they just go, no, no, we only, we only get 200 plus pound guys. Like that's always interesting too. It's like, do you break the mold because you like a guy better than you like your thresholds? So that's another part of this is that it feels from the outside like they have to chase these needs because of Rogers's age and because of where they are.

But this team for the last 30 years has never done that. Ever. So do they say, you know what? We're going to keep going the way we're going here. We're going to pick the best players that we think fit our long-term model and who we are and all of that as we're all sitting here being like, no, you need these three guys in order to maximize this tiny little window that you have. You need to come away with a receiver, a right tackle, and some beef on the defensive line in this draft, or what do you do in all this for? How nice must it be to be a Packish fan that you have the stability to go back to 30 years of thresholds and 30 years of how you draft? It's insane. It's, it's It must be so nice.

We talk about teams that, like, in two years going like, well, they have an identity after two years. Packers, they just, we talk about marching to your own drum. Packers are just going to do Packers things, and they're just, they're at their own pace. It still feels like they have to be jolted out of that a little bit, though. I feel like they are. You have how many more years with this guy, and even if you still believe in Jordan Love, the uncertainty waiting around the corner, I still think you have to chase it a little more in this draft than you, would have otherwise. They were willing to pay Devante. It's not like they were like, you know

what? This is the line in the sand. We're not doing this. Yes. And I do think that is telling. That is such an important fact. Yeah. Tyreek was, nope, you're out. Devante was like, no, we want you back. And I think that speaks to the different points these two franchises are at. Even if the trades look similar, because the chiefs have a quarterback who's

26 years old, there's financial certainty with him, there is a long-term plan in place there. You can operate a little bit differently. It still feels like desperation isn't the right word, but you need to be more pointed in the way that you're attacking this if you're the Packers compared to what the Chiefs have to do. When you get aggressive, you start, you know, breaking some rules.

Like you start going like, ah, we're, we're going to start squeezing this guy. We like him at pick 40, you know, picking the 40. We'll take him at 20, whatever there at 28. No, 20, yeah, 28. Yeah, we'll take them there. Like, you know, that's, it just does seem like that. Like you said, it's, especially with the rest of the roster is really kind of set in place. I mean, they have a lot of good players on defense. Like they have some decent players.

But now it's like as opposed to just BPAing it, need becomes more of a priority. It's want or need. It's now they're needing things as opposed to just, oh, we want that. And we'll see if it comes to us. Speaking of a team that might be in a similar situation for different reasons, I wanted to mention the chargers here because the chargers are in a good spot. You know, when you have that quarterback on a rookie deal and you can go spend in the way that they have, you can go get a Calio, and a J.C. Jackson, and you can give Mike Williams that extension. But at the same time,

you're blessed to have that quarterback in a rookie deal, but you feel the crush of needing to make the most out of it. And that's why, even if at first glance, it doesn't seem like they should be in this conversation, that pick at 17 now becomes so important. Because if you can finish off one of those final needs,

whether it's wide receiver, whether it's a right tackle, whatever you think the most important thing is, if that hits, now you look at the roster and you think, you know what, we're ready. Like we're, we are ready right now. And they don't have as much draft capital as the other teams on this list. And I think they're in a better position roster-wise than a lot of teams on this list. But that pick becomes a pivot point.

It can take you over the top in a way that it can't for a lot of other teams picking in this range, in my opinion. Yes. Because if they hit on the pick, they can go nuclear. Like they can. Like if they, if they do, if they. Even if they're only expecting a hit a double with the pick. And that guy turns out to be a freaking, you know, moon shot. Like the Cowboys last year with Michael Parsons.

Yes. Okay. Yes. It's a great example. Great example. But that's super juiced the entire team. All of a sudden, their defense was a, went from a question mark to a strength. Like overnight because of a rookie.

Like that's, I mean, other guys stepped up. Don't get me wrong. But it's like that really supercharges everything. No pun intended about the chargers. But it's, it's they, if they hit on that position, it can really, really help. And I think. if they want to go tackle, you know, right, or on the right side, if maybe even guard, if they want to go de-tackle, if they really, Jordan Davis, everybody in their mother has mocked them

with Jordan Davis, but if they want to go receiver and really make the offense even more, you know, more of an explosive unit, like that pick, if they hit it, it can also go like, oh, the chargers are, you know, everybody's favorite to like, wow, they're actually legit contender because they have this extra juice that that rookie gave them. So that's why it can make their window more of a 2% window to an 8%. percent window. And that doesn't sound crazy, but that freaking matters. I know, and I know it's just one rookie, one pick, but that's the thing. If you nail this, it can really help your entire outlook on everything. And I also think that the Bengals are in this conversation. I think they're in a similar

spot, even though they're picking later in the first round and they just played in the Super Bowl, when you look at what they've done this offseason, they've plugged a lot of holes, they've fixed the offensive line. Props to them. Whatever you want to say fixed. Yeah. They've done what, they've done what you would expect them to do. Wanted them to do. They looked at the offensive line and said, we need these marginal upgrades in these spots. We need to get average at these places. And then Lyle Collins, I think, is a little bit better than that.

Hayden Hurst is a replacement for Uzziah. They have filled the spots they need to on offense. Now, can you get some immediate contributors from the draft to really be the final flourishes on this thing? Because the thing that concerns me with the Bengals, I understand filling the holes on the offense and that's where you want to use your resources. It is so tempting to look at a team that went to the Super Bowl last year and say, all that stuff is going to stay the same.

And then we fix the bad things. They have done nothing on defense this off season. Nothing. That's okay if your mindset is, well, we don't have any holes on defense. We don't have to do anything. But that is usually a recipe for taking a step back. You know, Joseph Osai is going to hopefully come back from this year, who was the third round pick last year.

Outside of that, there are no reinforcements coming. So with that 31st pick, can they find a playmaker on defense? Can they get one or two little ingredients from this draft that combine with the holes they filled on offense can take them up that final level to be one of the teams in the AFC this year? The conversations are similar just because the financial timeline with the quarterbacks is similar. Absolutely.

Same draft class for the quarterback. so it makes sense, you know, and yeah, that's it. And they don't have the usual question mark when you have a young quarterback and going like, well, we need to give them some playmakers, you know, open. They're all set. They're all set. Yeah. They already have a back too. They already have a mix in who's, you know, can catch some passes too.

But it's they have some good pieces and the fact they upgrade their offensive line. So like you said, it goes now the focus goes to the defense. And honestly, some of the pressure goes on to Zach Taylor as a play caller and a play designer as well because I've given him benefit of the doubt going. your offensive line, shit. I don't care. I can't critique you because you can't do much. All right. We're taking that excuse away now.

What do you got? What do you got, Coach Taylor? That's kind of like a little sidebar about a little pressure on that offense is now they, you know, those excuses are gone. Now we actually have to see is it Joe Burrow just creating or can you actually put together a game plan for 60 minutes? So that's another little kind of like side story with all this. But as far as the defense, again, they're picking at 31, not usually you can get like in

that spot. It's sometimes once in a while you get the T.J. Watts of the world. Once every 10 years. What was he picked 29 or 30, whatever he was? But I think for now, but if they just get a tangible good starter on a rookie deal, that's going to matter so much for them and what their timeline is. So I'm agreeing with what you said is that they just get a good starter there. It can help so much.

Let's say you forget Devante Wyatt from Georgia at 31 there. Yeah. Right? And you just drop him in. So now you have BJ Hill, DJ Reader, and Devante White. Whoever the splash defensive player is, if it's a linebacker, whoever it ends up being, you just, it's so important to remember that defense is not going to maintain. You just need to keep injecting it with talent all the way through. You need to refresh it in some way.

And if they can just have that little bit, that little jolt from whoever they draft the 31, like those are the tiny things that can help take you over the top. And that's why I just think they're worth mentioning in this conversation. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's anything too. Like that's just not even talking about the draft, but like even free agency, getting a Justin Houston as a designated pass rusher. That helps. Getting a nickel type. And they've done none of that. Exactly. And that's okay. I understand based on their resources why they haven't. But that little ingredient is just so important when you're thinking about championship recipes. Yep. You just need those super role players. And that's what these guys can be. All right. Speaking of championship recipes, let's talk about the Carolina Panthers. They have to be here. They're on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to the other team who talked about because they have no draft capital, right? They shocks me every time. They're picking at 6 and 137. Every time I look at it, it's harder to imagine and harder to believe.

Yep. The reason I feel like we have to talk about them here is that the clock has to be ticking, right? Yeah. On this regime. Like that sixth overall pick becomes. super important and crucial just because if you don't get this right, how much more leash does this coaching staff and this current era get for them? Yeah. Do you know they only own two of their own picks this year? So they have a fourth rounder, two-fists, a six and the seventh. They own

their first and one of their fists. So the fourth is from the Rams, the fifth is from the Jaguars, the six is from the Raiders, the seventh is from the Patriots. It's the weirdest, like, it's the weirdest, this like shell game that they're doing with this stuff. And they have to like they've cornered themselves into taking a quarterback here. Because if they were had any sense of someone's of patience, they could just go, oh,

we'll take, we'll take Charles Cross if he gets there at six. And okay, we really rebuild the old line. If we really get another tangible player on the inside, but instead they're having to reach for somebody. They're the, they're the morgueous of NFL franchises and Matt rules,

Geroletto. Like that's what it feels like. I know what Dane mentioned on the show last. week that there's chatter about them trading down. I just feel like so many different things point to them having to pick a quarterback. Not only a glaring need at quarterback, but isn't it really the only way to give yourself more time if you're this regime? You go to your own and say, well, we drafted a quarterback.

You know, we need at least a year, maybe more to see this through. Yeah. If you roll with Darnold again or you trade for Jimmy G., whatever it is, and it goes south, and you win five games, isn't that it? Doesn't that have to be it? Yeah. Like what, why would we give you for another year?

Yeah. I mean, that's what you have to do. And I mean, honestly, if, you know, the owner is a pick rat.

You say, can you pick it, make him happy and go, hey, hey, we got your guy. Let me coach him up for another year. I mean,

that's what they've just cornered themselves into the stupidest corner. Like, they really have. And it's like, I'm very curious how they're going to get out of it. But that's what it seems like they have to do is take a quarterback. Because like you said,

training down just, doesn't really make sense with what they are. Maybe they're trained out to get a quarterback, but they don't think they can draft one of those guys at six. I have no idea. Yeah. They're in their own world. They are.

It is such a weird situation. To have no picks and to be where they are in their trajectory. What if you take, Willis? You know, like that's like, that's just a home run swing. And Willis needs time to develop. That's how you give yourself three years. Yeah. No, no, we just, we need a couple years to, he needs to sit for a while.

He needs a red shirt. Trust us. He's going to be great. We need at least a year to get there. He needs a gray shirt and then red shirt. And then we get time with him. That's what it seems like. But man, it's what a weird team.

I just think they have to be in this because we're talking about things at stake. What they do with that sixth pick and what ultimately happens of a quarterback for them. I don't know if any team has more at stake because we're talking about teams on the hot seat, coaches on the hot seat regimes that are kind of nearing their. end, I feel like they have to be the first one that you have to mention. Everybody's got a fuse lit on them. And theirs feels like they have one notch before it's about to explode. That's what it just feels like with everything they do.

A couple of teams I think that are worth mentioning here, even if the urgency isn't quite at the same level, the Eagles. And the only reason I think we have to mention the Eagles because they have multiple first round picks. But that trade with the Saints gave us a window into their thinking and their timeline, none of which is surprising. We always knew that they were going to try to slow play this. And now they have the extra first next year.

The quarterback move is likely coming down the road if Hertz doesn't work out. So they haven't backed themselves into a corner. They've handled this the right way. But anytime you have multiple first round picks, you by definition have a lot at stake in that particular draft. Right. Yeah. But they're giving them a chance to pivot, however they want to do it. Like now they've kept themselves open in the market next year.

If the trade stuff still goes crazy with the quarterback market, they can move up for a guy. they don't bottom out. Like they can do a lot of things. That's what it seems like they're doing. Like you said, it's just they're assessing hurts, seeing if they can get another leap out of them. If they get another leap out of them, holy shit,

this is great, you know, but if they don't, okay, we got ammunition to make a move. I also think that the timeline gives you more wiggle room and flexibility with the positions that you can chase in this track. By saying,

like, we don't need to fill holes right now. We're on a multi-year plan. If you look at their roster, defensive back and wide receiver jump out is two positions that they could use. But if you're, If this is a multi-year build, then Fletcher Cox is on a one-year contract. Maybe we look for some youth along the defensive line.

It just feels like they can go in so many different directions because of the timeline that they've put themselves on. And where they're picking with those two picks that they have this year, makes total sense for where they're probably going to go. Like you just said receiver or any defensive help whatsoever, this draft is littered with a lot of guys between picks 10 through 50 that are in that spots. Like those those don't seem like reaches if you take that. If you take another, if you have a third pick and you're like, well, we already took a receiver.

We already took a deat tackle. Oh, man. Well, let's get a linebacker now, but now you're reaching half a round and then it's, you know, as opposed to just kicking the can down the road. So that's what just seems like. They're doing stuff at their own pace. Smart moves for short and midterm. That's just kind of what they're the Eagles M.O.

at this point in time. Yeah. They have a lot at stake just in terms of draft capital, but they're not backed into a corner, which is exactly the position you want to be in as a franchise. Yes. All right. A team that might not seem like an. obvious one because they're picking at the back of the draft.

But I think that what has happened over the last couple months indicates the timeline that they're on. I wanted to mention the bills here. Because what if they get that corner with the 25th pick or what if they get a little bit of speed at receiver with the 25th pick? If they can just have a guy that helps them put it over the top with that first round pick or with their first two picks, whatever it is. I just think when you're so close and you've made moves like the Von Miller deal that is a sign that you think you're close, then it just adds extra importance to every single draft, even if they're not, listen, Brandon Beat isn't in the verge of getting fired.

It's not like they need to get this right or it's going off the rails in Buffalo. I just think that some of the other moves they've made are an indication that they're feeling a little itchy to get this thing done. Yeah, the Von Miller signaled a lot. Von Miller signing signaled a lot. And in a weird way, by signing him, it alleviated some stress in a way. Like, no, I get it. Like, they're saying, like, this is our window and everything, but some stress of finding that guy at pick, you know, whether they have, pick 25.

Like, they're saying, oh, we need to get another guy up in our front seven. They can rush a passer and everything. Okay, now we got a guy. Now everything doesn't feel so urgent. Now they can go BPA. But, like, if they, God, I love a couple guys. receiver for them. Like Alave Wilson, Dotson, they could go with any of those speedier, smaller guys. They're fine with it. They don't have size thresholds at that position. They love having the

smurfs. But like, say if they get a guy that can add some juice that position, make their offense go supersonic, like that is, oh, that would be so cool to see. If they want to get another front guy, you know, up on the D line, if they find the offense alignment into your exterior, exterior, I've never said that in my entire life. On the outside, a guy that they might like and want to groom him across, like, you know, as guys are replaced some of the guys down the road. Like, they, they can go down so many different paths and they've kind of put themselves in that position. But now it's, it's in a weird, like they could either go, okay, we've groomed this guy down the road or we want to get an instant contributor. And that's going to be more of the argument now

with these kind of picks. So that's what's curious of what they're doing right now. That's why I just think they're worth mentioning here. Like they're looking at that. The one hole that I think is left on their roster right now in this moment is that extra other corner spot. It's like, if we go get our other corner there and that is just, it bring everything else falls into place. Like, this is the roster. This is the one final thing we needed to put this thing over the top. That's just why I think they're worth mentioning because they're so close. They could also go like another safety with their older safeties and have that guy be like a super role player and then moving back.

You know, because they like to go big nickel, you know, stuff like that. So I know, they're a very interesting team, just overall, everything they do. Last one that's worth mentioning here. They just have 12 picks, and so the thing we have to match is the Jags. We spend so much time on the Jags this off season. But when you have the first overall pick, when you have four picks in the top 70, there's so much draft capital on the table for them right now. They, by definition, again, have a lot at stake in this draft.

Yeah. I like the Arden Key signing for them, by the way. We haven't gotten to talk about it. I like that for them. That was okay for them. But they haven't brought any receivers for top 30 visits, which is just been stunning to me. Well, when you have a top five guy in Christian Kirk, you don't need any more help of the receiver. It just makes me laugh.

I know I can't stop piling on about they're going to be fine. That's the thing. Kirk and Zay Jones are going to be fine, but it's just could have done so much more. But again, like they're likely going to go D-N first. It seems like that's what the smoke signal seems like, even though I would want them to go tackle because I don't know. I just building this roster out. But they could go in so many different paths. It's just that the guy at the helm, who knows.

knows where he's going to steer it down. I have no idea where he's steering that franchise's direction down. So they have a question answered. They have the quarterback. They got some more tangible players. I guess that's a nice offseason. But yeah, all these picks can go in so many different directions.

I just hope they utilize them in a good way. Build up around Trevor Lawrence. That's all you got to freaking do. And then figure out the defense later. That's, I'm going to keep saying that. All right. Those are the teams that we're going to hit.

That was fun. It's always good to kind of take a step back and think about it from that perspective. We're so knee-deep in the players and the prospects right now. I think talking about where some of these teams are that really have to get this right and what that looks like is an important exercise this time of year. So I'm glad that we did that. All right. It's time to get to Riannon and our conversation with her.

Let's get to it. All right. Now I want to welcome on Riannon Walker, who is in a unique position in that she covered Dwayne Haskins during his time in Washington. And this weekend when the news came down about, his death and there was obviously an outpouring from so many people on social media and just the Twitter response to it. Riannon's reaction to it really struck me. It jumped out to me. She told a story about Dwayne and when she was covering the Washington football team and really just

give us a window into who he was as a person. And that's the conversation I wanted to have because when I was sitting here and thinking about the news and how to process it during Saturday afternoon, that's what I kept coming back to. It's just this idea of who people are beyond what they are on the field, beyond what we understand from them in any sort of outward way. And I really wanted to chat with Rianan about that. Ranan, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Robert, thank you so much for having me on.

You know how I feel it's always a privilege, and I always love working with you, talking with you. So thank you again for having me. Absolutely. We'll just start with a fairly general question. Based on your time around him, based on your time covering him, if someone asked you how you'll remember Dwayne Haskins, what would you say? I wish my camera wasn't broken so you could actually see me smiling.

He was so nice. I mean, he was genuinely kind. I think he was being inserted into a situation where I believe when he came in, he was 21. Yes, he was 21, just turned 22 for the start of camp. He was trying to become the franchise quarterback for the Washington football team, as they were called the time, Washington commanders now. Washington Commanders now and trying to figure this whole thing out and that was a challenge

but within that he was so nice I met him first time was when he was introduced on the steps of the Jefferson Memorial which the head of communications at the time Tony Wiley was so excited about this and I mean it was so cool it was very windy that day and he's just like you guys have never had this happen before and no we hadn't he came in with Montez sweat

we're down there I remember my parents dropped me off and Duane's family was there as well too. And it's just one of those things like he had this big smile. Everybody's talked about the big smile. And it's true. It was. I mean, you see that a lot with him.

But what people didn't really get a chance to see was how introverted he is. He was very, very quiet. And I'm an expert. I can feel that out in the room like very easily. And so he was for somebody who's in this quarterback role at this young age, for this franchise that is desperate to have a signal caller finally step up and take the reins and, you know, propel this team forward, having this more quiet demeanor, having this more chill personality.

Sometimes it came off a certain type of way to people like he was indifferent or whatever the case may be, but you don't get to the stage of the game without being a hard worker, right? You don't get to be the starting quarterback in a competition between him and Joe Burrow. I know he was injured at Ohio State without being somewhat talented. You don't say to somebody when you step foot on Ohio State's campus, I want to come here, make that happen without that kind of hard work and dedication. But beyond how I met him, can I be frank with you all? Being a beat reporter is hard.

It's really, really challenging, actually. And it was something that I feel most comfortable when I do future stories. I always have felt more comfortable getting to know people. I am an empath. If you have ever gotten to know me, most people can feel that about me. And that's something I'll tell anybody is that I do really well when I get to talk to people about those deep stories. Like, what makes a person tick, why something is the way it is, explaining what a situation is versus just that instant analysis. I don't think I always get the full picture.

sure when something has just happened, I like to take my time with stuff to give the full explanation of why the thing is a thing. Being a beat reporter coming into it when I came into it was really challenging for a multitude of different reasons. There was this new job with a lot of responsibility with a team that has a very ravenous fan base. The fans were fantastic. I mean, this is the area I'm from. I didn't feel the challenge necessarily there, but in some ways I feel like I can resonate with him. This is like you step into something where people are paying a lot of attention to you. your shortcomings when you do well, when you do badly, it can be a lot. And especially if you're particularly hard on yourself, I'll be the first to tell you I'm a perfectionist. It's really hard

for me when I don't get good at something the first time through. The challenges of being a beat reporter, it's beating people like Ian Rapport, Adam Schaefter, who have all these long-term connections. It's beating people at the local level, like Nikki Jabala, who's on the Washington Post or Ben, like he has a lot of people as well, too, that he's able to connect with as well. And you're near a competitive person, and that seems like the metric. for success and you're not reaching that metric. It's very hard. And you can get within yourself. And sometimes I felt like I could sort of more or less sense that with Dwayne. I think at some level, we weren't far apart in age either. If he was 21, 22, that was the first draft class I ever

covered with the Washington football team as well, too. And I didn't try to force it. It was one of those things where if people want to know, like, how do we start talking, actually? I'm known for wearing my tims all the time, all year long, don't care. I like wearing them. They're stylish. They work with everything. I don't know what people want me to say. They're a functional shoe. They're a very functional shoe.

They work with daggone near everything. And so after a while, I got used to wearing them quite a bit. And so we actually started talking because he would make jokes about the fact I was wearing tins all the time. And that was okay with me. The thing is, it's like, to be frank with you,

I don't mind standing out. I already stand out in the locker room as a black woman in there. So, I mean, it's not like anything else for me at that point to do anything else that might get somebody's attention. Like, you do those. kinds of things, though, as a reporter, or at least I do, is like, I connect with these players because we're closer in age. I connect with these players because we have similar sense in things we like style-wise. Like, we talk about shoes or, like, we'll talk about different sports.

I think most people know I played basketball up to a point. So, I mean, I can even have conversations there about just playing sports at a somewhat high level. And so what is the secret talent that you have? Like, that was one of the stories I did in 2019 is, why is your number your number and why, what is a secret talent that nobody knows about you? And Dwayne can be kind of brief with people, just dependent on whatever the case, maybe. He actually sat and answered the question. And one of the things he was really good at was art. And he designed his own tattoos actually as well too. So some of the tattoos that you saw on him, he designed them himself. And I thought that was so cool. Explaining the number and why it was important for him to have seven. And he talked about religion. He talked about his faith. He talked about all kinds of different stuff. And so like I said, people outside had their impressions about him. And I'm not saying he wasn't without mistakes. I'm not, but I am saying that the way that people talk.

talked about them. They were so critical. They were so harsh towards him. And I always thought that was so perplexing. It never really made a whole bunch of sense to me because I'm like, you don't know him. You're saying these things because you're not directly in front of him and I don't really get the idea of putting someone down that you just don't know. These are human beings too. They just have a very high profile job. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you just get to make whatever remarks you want to make about them. It has consequences. I mean, that's something I've certainly seen with athletes like when they see this stuff. And that's something he talked about is that he, he did care what people had to say about him. How could you not as a person? And that's, I think you comparing your experience to him is perfect just because when I was

sitting there thinking about it, and you and I talked about this a little bit this weekend, him coming in as a 21-year-old. I can't imagine having all of your professional missteps early in your career happened in public like that. As someone who had his fair share of them, I got to have to have. them in private. I got to work through those things early in my career as a young person throughout my 20s and all the mistakes that I was allowed to make and come back from. We don't afford the same leeway and grace to athletes often. And he didn't have that chance.

He had to endure that stuff in public. And I think that what I've really kind of sat and thought about as it relates to this is that we fixate. on achievement as a culture, as a way to dictate someone's worth. What you do professionally feeds into the way that we talk about a person's worth. And everything that people close to him have said here in the last 48, 72 hours is about his personality and how kind he was. The story you told you had a migraine after a game and he came over and was willing, like, giving you ginger rail and giving you a chair to sit down on it and asking you if you were okay. And it's just so important to me to separate whatever a person's career path is and what they've

achieved in that arena versus how we talk about them as a person. Because what you are in private and what you are behind closed doors and how you treat people can be the way that you dictate yourself worth. Maybe it should be the way that we dictate people's worth and not what he did in an arena like professional football, which like you alluded to, even getting to that space. is unbelievably difficult and puts you in the top half of a percent of half of a percent of all people on the planet and in America. And I just think that that's really what has struck me is just that there's this difficulty and obviously with the reaction to his death and the news.

And that was an entirely different layer of this and entirely another layer of this. But that's kind of what I've been sitting with over the last couple of days, just this inability for so many of us to separate the fact that who people are in their day to day and every moment of their lives versus who they are and what they achieve in their professional arena. Those can be two different things. And I think it's important to extricate those things, especially in moments like this. And that's without question. It's interesting.

I was in L.A. for a vacation about three weeks or so ago. And my friend, Trudy, she's at Spotify. She had me watching this sit down with Michael Beasley. Like I said, my interest is in people telling me how they really feel about stuff. and their genuine concerns, like when they're comfortable and that's okay. And watching Michael Beasley talk about how he never really felt like he got the help. It was just kind of like people just thought he was acting out and it's kind of like, you have no idea what I've been through to reach this point.

Now, they have two different backgrounds. I'm not comparing in that way. But there was a point where it became very clear how much it weighed on him and he started crying and he's like, this is a lot. He's like, I didn't have anybody to open up to and talk to him. And when I tried to extend to ask people for help, I didn't get that help. And that hurt. And it's just like, you know, I don't do anything for anybody.

I couldn't get that back. And like people don't, people see somebody acting out, but it's like, why don't you ask what's going on? Why don't you ask what's wrong? Why do you assume the worst in people? And that's really with Dwayne, like one of those things that I couldn't figure out, like, why I assumed the worse in people? Because like I said, the way that I met him, he was polite to me when I first met him when we were at the Jefferson Memorial. He was concerned when I showed you the video from Instagram where he threw the pass towards the end zone. and uh what's the face

his teammate hit me and well his teammate got decked not me but he came over after the fact and made the quipas was like look at you giving out hits I was not I most certainly promise I was not I just I can at least hold my own a bit but he's like but you're good though like

you're okay yeah I am okay but I appreciate you for asking and everything else like that he was thrown out in the New York Giants game and you know I thought you know I always thought that was kind of cruel to make the point of him not being prepared to show that on such a stage. To get the point across to whoever Jay Bruden was, I believe, trying to get the point to

that he wasn't ready. But I don't think you have to embarrass somebody. That's just my personal opinion. So even moving past that, I can't remember, I cannot remember the specific game. But you know what? Actually, out of that New York Giants game, I'll tell you, seeing somebody be real, letting those emotions come to face. Because one of the things about Duane is he always tried to have.

have the demeanor of like calmness of not being phased, of not being bothered, what have you. After that Giants game, the team lost, I think it was 24 to 3. And it was a September or is an October game. I think it was October though, but, oh, no, September, excuse me. And so he comes to the podium to talk because he was the quarterback that finished the game. And I could tell he was nervous. Why could I tell his voice was shaking when he was on the stand? He kept tapping it with his hand to the point where Pierre was like, hey, you have to stop tapping it.

Because it's like, that's a real human. He just played his first professional football game. The team lost. He didn't play particularly well. And if I'm remembering correctly, he was just like, you know, you see a smile in this face and like, you know, like get used to seeing this smile in the space. Like he wanted so badly for things to turn out positively.

He wanted so badly for the things he was telling himself that this was going to work, that he was going to be the player that people expecting him to be, that he was going to be the quarterback to leave Washington to its old glory. He believed that he was going to be that guy, all right? And it hurt him to lose. People may not believe that, but it hurt him to lose. He wasn't indifferent about that kind of situation whatsoever. The things that also made him, in addition to that, like, pretty cool.

Yes, when I was having, I have, I've had chronic migrants my entire life. It's one of those things that I just deal with for the most part. And I don't know what happened. I usually take medicine. I can usually feel when it's coming on. The medicine I took that day just didn't work. And so I'm at the stadium. I'm at that X.

It's loud. Whatever the case may be, it's after loss. have you. Um, and I'm not the kind of person that stands off by myself. Like, I usually have a pretty good idea of who I want to talk to in the locker room and I just go over to them. But in this particular situation, and like I told you, I'm an extrovert. I was off by myself. I couldn't really focus. It was hard for me to function at that point in time. And just based on the interactions we'd had over those few months, he recognized that there was something not right with me. So he came over and he asked me, hey, are you okay and

pointed out that I don't look good? And I'm sure I didn't look that great because my head injury, Like when I have like head stuff, I just feel very out of it. I'm lethargic, very tired. I don't talk much because it lights and sensitivity, sound sensitivity is all bad. And smell too, considering we're in the locker room. And so he asked me to stay there. He went to the team fridge. He got me the gatorade.

He got me a ginger ale. He brought me a chair because I think he was nervous about me fainting possibly. And I do faint. That does happen actually, but I never had disclosed that to anybody. But he sat with me. He asked me if I felt like maybe the trainer needed to be brought in. And it was bringing attention. to me and one thing I don't like, I don't like attention.

I'm not the focus point of any story. I just want to write the stories about people. I want people to know who people are. I want to talk about that. I don't really want to talk about myself. And that's something I even talked about with everything that came out in the summer of 2020 is that I hate being the focal point of any story. Because it's not about me.

That's not the job I signed up for. If that was the case, I think I would do more of a broadcast stuff where you see me front and center versus writing, where I could be a little bit more of an anonymity, in anonymity. But people started noticing, I promised that I was okay. Um, you know, he said if there's anything else, let him know. He had to talk to, it's still like, there's still people that want to talk to him in the locker. I know he had like he had to talk podium, but like he, you know, people still walk out with you and talk with you and stuff like that as well too.

But I appreciate the fact that one, he didn't have to notice. Two, there are people that wanted to talk to him and he stopped to do this. And three, my point being again that he was a very genuine and kind person because there was no reason for him to do that. For all his purposes, he could have got the trainer from the start and been completely washed his hands of the situation. He could have. That was his choice not to do so and to stay there. And so at every instance, interaction that I had with him, even for instance, when I tell people this job is hard, I get I get anxious. It's weird. I get very anxious about asking people for their number, especially being a woman. I don't want anybody to get the wrong idea, the wrong impression. And like,

even though I know that's not how I conduct myself, you just, you never know. And it's something I hate to do. And so even though I was cool, Duane, I had never asked for his number up to a point. Like, if anything I had to talk to him about, I just talked to him in the locker. But I knew there was some things I just would have to text with them about. So that whole process, like, I was nervous about it for whatever reason. And just, he knew there was something up. He's like, do you need something? And I was just like, look. Because I, you know what for me it is? It's like, I hate pestering people. I hate feeling like I'm this kind of parasite. Like, I need something from you. But truly, what do you get out of it for me to be quite honest?

you. And as a, any one of my friends will tell you, I have a really strong moral compass. I feel bad about bothering somebody. I feel bad about having to ask somebody for something constantly, constantly. And there's not like a fair balance. It feels bad. I feel like a bad person. And so I just, again, like, that's one of those humps that like I kind of kind of got over with, but it's just, um, I guess when you go with things a genuine way, people don't mind helping you though. And that was kind of like his way of going about it. It's just like, you can just ask for my number. We're cool. Like, if you need something, just let me know. And like, I'll, help you out. And he meant that. And he did. We would talk and yeah, I mean, I would tell him,

I was like, this job is hard. Like, without question, I have to do a lot of things that make me uncomfortable. I have to chase people. I have to pester people. When he and I met, I was like six months into that, into that role. And it's just, I could feel that. I hate the idea that I'm not living up to my own expectations. I hate disappointing people even more. And I think until I got to the point where I felt like I kind of had a hold or a foot on what it was I was doing, I just felt very out of sorts and so it was kind of nice to have somebody else

in the locker room to talk about that that was my age that sort of more or less could understand about that because he went to Ohio State because he was somebody that was a big time prospect

in the DMB area it surprised him even like just how much like attention was on him but I'm sitting there telling him like you're a quarterback not only that you're a black quarterback

by nature you're an introvert and you want to keep some stuff close to the best people will misinterpret that they may think poorly of you because you choose not to share like your standoffice or something like that

when that's just not the case. Try to be as open as you can with the people that you feel like you can trust in this room. To be really frankly, it was really nice having him in the locker room. And one other fun little story is, so I have a limited shoe collection outside of my tent. I'm trying to update it. I'm trying to get it better. I promise I am. I have a friend, Kareem Copeland, who has, like, shoes for days.

Like, it's crazy how many shoes that man has. But the players, like I said, they pay attention to that kind of stuff. So I walked in. I have these very special pair of Jordan 8s. They're the OVOC crossover with Drake. And so hard to come by, hard to get got them. And so I walk in the locker room with them. And Dwayne sees these shoes.

And he's like, what shoes are these? And I'm sitting here like, I mean, you're the sneaker king. You should know the shoes. So what shoes are these? He's like, those are Jordan Sevens. I was like, already off. I was like, I don't know about what kind of sneaker king you are. That is the wrong answer, buddy.

He's like, those are sevens. I was like, I took the shoe off my foot. I was like, is that your final answer? He's like, he walked around the locker room. He's like, what, what shoes are these? What shoes are these? Some people said eight. Some people said sevens.

He's like, I'm telling you these are during sevens. I was like, look on the tongue. He's like, no, you're lying. I was like, no, I'm not. They're eights and they're the ovio ones. I was like, if you're going to come at the king, you best not miss. He said, I'm coming for you the rest of the season after this. So we, we just chuckled.

We just chuckled. shoot my first oh god i can't even forgot this one even like my first year uh i will tell people i'm a sensitive person but i'm not an overly emotional person but in 2019 his first season my um my grandma terry died in december first and i remember i was in a locker room and there was a song playing that she really really liked she just she was just one of those old songs that like i thought about her with that particular song and i refused to cross the first thing that i refused to cross in front of people. I really do. So there's these couches that are in the team locker room that when you walk in initially and you go towards locker room, you pass them. I went back

outside and I was sitting on the couches and I just, I couldn't stop crying. I really couldn't stop crying. I didn't get a chance to see her. One of the things with this job is it doesn't give you a lot of time. You signed up for that and that's okay. I was in the hallway and I was crying and Duane saw me and he asked me what was going on. he was going to get me a water and I was like no no like you know it's okay like you just you know do what you were doing like it's all good um he's like no he's like what's going on like because I don't cry I'm not usually upset people don't ever really see me upset and so I just told my grandmother had passed and this song was playing in the in a team facility that

made me think about her and I was having a hard time with it and um I don't like to hug players that's not my thing but he asked me to make an exception for the world he's like come on we're human beings like you're clearly going through it like if somebody saw this who cares what they think he's like you know what's going on i know what's going on and you need the hug he's like you shouldn't he's like you shouldn't be out here by yourself he's like i don't know why you're here right now like you should go home and i said i have a job to do have a job to have to cover you all i can't go home just because i'm having a moment so um he uh he gave me this hug and he he set a prayer for me and I told you guys he was a religious person

and he said a prayer for me and he just sat there like I said this is the quarterback of the team I wasn't looking for one-on-one time I didn't really want him to sit there with me to be frank with you because again it attracts a lot of attention Duane reached out to me when people found out that I had been sexually grass

like people just don't know how good of a person he was they don't really have any idea they don't have any idea and they just talk so much trash about him they were so cruel to her and it's even more disappointing

in some regards because within this franchise even alone you have guys like Sean Taylor and people have learned I think nothing about when it comes to talking about athletes treating them with kindness, treating them with a measure of empathy or sympathy just trying to put themselves in other people's shoes. One of my favorite quotes of all time is from To Kill a Mockingbird

where Atticus is talking about Boo Radley and sometimes you have to you have to be in somebody's skin, like walk around in somebody else's skin. It wasn't hard for me to put myself in his shoes because I guess I felt like I was going through it in my own particular way with my drones and career, but people just railed on him. And I guess it was easy because it's at a safe distance and it's the thing to do, but he really tried. I'm curious, like this person who, again, like people had their impression of him, but like I said,

every interaction I had with him was a good one. Like, he was a good person. I feel like I can say that he was a good person. So why? And I'm at a loss. If you want to be even more real, this doesn't feel real. It doesn't feel real at all, to be quite frankly. Absolutely.

It's incredibly hard to process. And I think that it will be for a while for a lot of people. I mean, to be 24 and again, to be robbed of that chance to tell the rest of your story, football or not. And to get to live that out and to get to further be. be, you know, like you said, a brother and a son and every single aspect of who he was to everybody else. I'm just glad that we got to understand who he was to you and who he was to, you know, people around there, even at a time when there was an outside perspective of what

those years were like to him. So I really appreciate you taking the time to do this sincerely. Robert, thank you again for having me on the show and, you know, whatever comes after this comes after this. But I appreciate you giving me the chance to reflect about it because I've just kind of been sitting here, I guess, in the state of disbelief. So I appreciate you again for having me on to talk. Absolutely. Thank you very much for doing it. All right, guys, that is all we have today. Thank you so much to Nate for digging into some of those teams with the most stake in this year's draft. Thank you so much to Rianan for that conversation. Sincerely appreciate the time from both of them. Sincerely appreciate the time from all of you guys. If you could please rate and review the

podcast on your podcast platform of choice, I would really appreciate that. Please subscribe to the A lot of great stuff on the athletic right now. Shield did a great piece today about what the offseason moves from every NFL team have told us about them. I think if you want to go, just get a nice little synopsis of what the last couple months have looked like and what we can learn from them. That's a great place to start. You can go look at every single team in the league and what their needs are and where they sit before the draft. All of our writers did that as an exercise. That helped me a lot as I was preparing for this podcast.

So if you want to get kind of the table setter as we get toward the draft here for where every single team in the league sits, that's something you can get at The Athletic. Theathletic.com slash football show. Highly encourage you to do that. You can also check out Nate's work from last week about the quarterbacks. So please, if you have not read that, go check it out. We will be back tomorrow with Dane and Lance in their latest draft episode. I will be back on Thursday with Deonti Lee. Really looking forward to that.

In the meantime, appreciate you guys. Talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.