The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The 2022 Athletic Football Show Awards Episode

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Awards season isn't limited to Hollywood. We get in on the fun in the football world, too. Robert Mays and Nate Tice hand out some hardware on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubePhilo: Sign up today at philo.tv and use promo code MAYS to get 50% off your first monthBurrow: Show Burrow you’re listening to The Athletic Football Show by shopping at Burrow.com/mays and get 10% off your first orderLinkedIn: LinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/maysMizzen + Main: Go to mizzenandmain.com and use promo code MAYS, to receive $35 off any regular-price order of $125 or more3:40 Offensive Player of the Year8:45 Defensive Player of the Year16:50 Executive of the Year22:30 Assistant Coach of the Year30:04 Offensive Rookie of the Year41:24 Defensive Rookie of the Year43:34 Coach of the Year58:39 MVP Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, joining me today. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well as I hit the record button right before I start talking. I am doing awesome because for whatever reason, the shows that I feel like have in the bag end up making me the most scrambled before.

So I am feeling great, though. I love doing awards like we did with the R.O. Pro show, and I said this before. I love ranking stuff. I love titling stuff. I love an awards show or postseason awards is just, it's catnip for me. It really is. I'm excited to dive into this. You know, some overlap with the All-Pro show that we did last week.

The All-Pro show, I love doing those All-Pro shows just because it's a chance to dive into players at every single position. And we really get to celebrate the best guys in the league. But we got to do awards. We can't not do it. So even if there's a little bit of overlap, I still think both of them are worth doing. and we're doing seasonal long awards today. Our producer Michael Bell had a great idea.

We're going to structure it a little bit like the Oscars. We're going to have a couple bigger ones at the top. And then we're going to get to the technical awards in the middle. They don't even televise the technical awards anymore. But like sound editing is still in there. So we'll get to sound editing. I love that. We'll save the big one for the end.

Dude, there was one that I can tell you, whatever year Mad Mac's Fury Road came out. And for whatever reason, that Oscar production was so good that year. That's stuck with me to this to this day. that I'm bringing it up in 2023 about an Oscars production. But they would do during the sound editing, like, that's what you saying sound editing made me think of this because they showed each movie and they just had all the sound effects. But then the Mad Max Fury Road one part was so cool because it was just all the like guitar riffs, you know, and then like the chujo-boo-ch-boot. And I was like, this is awesome.

What was that guy's name? Oh, doof the guitar guy's name. Koma, doof the coma warrior or Koma the Duf Warrier. I referenced them in my article. one time because I said I think the Raiders should play him on third down when Max Crosby is getting lined up like back at Grantland when there were no rules me and Barnwell did a under siege two podcast in the off season I feel like deep in May mean me and you just might have to do like a Mad Max Fury Road podcast maybe we'll do it on video I'd love to I absolutely love to I rewatched all of

them this fall that's why there's so many references I've made this I haven't watched beyond Thunderdome since I was like seven years old. And so I watched it again. It's like, that movie's a fever dream. All of them are fever dreams. That one is a very much a fever dream. All right. So let's get started with this.

Let's start with offensive player of the year. I think this one's probably pretty easy. Who did you have? Yeah. Well, for a while, I was going with a different guy, but I ended up going with Justin Jefferson. And that was my preseason pick. And I believe your preseason pick as well.

He's the betting favorite. it seems like he is going to win. And for a while, I was really leaning to Tyree Kill. I really was. When I did my 30s article at the one third check mark and the two-thirds check mark, Tyrake Hill was it. Justin Jefferson just won out in the end. Justin Jefferson established himself.

And I feel very comfortable in saying the best receiver in the game. Watching how we talk about gravity, everything, all the best receivers have that gravity, Tyreek, Devante, A.J. Brown. But watching how defenses unravel. or defenses make every play about number 18, Justin Jefferson, that really speaks to it. And the fact that he could be this productive while also having literally all eyeballs on him. You watch the Packers game. You watch the playoff game of the Giants. He made Wink Martindale stop being Wink Martindale. Like he, that's how good he is. That's the best example is how if you're talking about how drastically he can change an approach for a defense, he can make a coach that is one of the most extreme in the entire NFL.

totally changed his stripes. Yep. He made the most extreme man-heavy, blitz-happy coordinator go, we're running quarters. We're going nice and basic. But that's what he does. We talk about that with pass rushers sometimes. Old school, we talk about loading the box against a running back.

This is the version. This is 2023. This is what these receivers could do. I should say 2022 season. But this is what these stars can do. And then, you know, we're not even talking about the stats, 1,800 yards, 128 catches. He had 81st downs.

And even though he played a ton of snaps, over a thousand snaps, I believe he led all receivers in snaps. And I think he led all receivers in routes. So, oh, yeah, the metrics, like the kind of counting stats, maybe not aren't as like high. They still are. He's second and yards per route behind Tyreek. Tyreeks 3.2 was ridiculous. And he was six and first downs per routes among receivers. He's fantastic.

He's an unbelievable. He had an unbelievable year. If I had a third place vote, I'd give it to Kelsey. But that was my top three, Justin Jefferson, Tyrick Hill, Travis Kelsey. Yeah, I think that's a great list. You could throw a couple of the other quarterbacks on there that maybe aren't going to win MVP. I think that Just Jefferson is my pick. I tell Rie Kill would probably be second to me.

It was a one-two race the entire year. And what they do to defense is structurally is a big part of that. I want to say checking the numbers today, just doing some quick math, I think the Vikings saw two high coverages on 46% of their snaps, according to true media, which was one of the highest rates in the entire week. You know, the other guys that were up there, the dolphins were obviously up there. The Bengals were up there just because that's how teams play against the Bengals and play against Joe Burrow now, but the Vikings were on there because of Justin Jefferson.

And Tyree Kill has Jaylon Waddle. Yes. And I think that's important. And I think we've seen how important it is to have that secondary receiving option on some of these offenses, what Devante Smith and even Dallas Goddard did. And obviously, T.J. Hawkinson was there for the second half of the season, but they didn't really have that. Adam Thielen was great in his prime.

He was a great, great player. Adam Thielen is long in the tooth right now. Justin Jefferson was solely the focus of so many of these passing games in a way that Tyreek Hill couldn't be because Jaylen Waddle was there. And I just think that's what kind of pushes it over the edge beyond the fact that he led the NFL in receiving yards. Right. He's second of yards per route run. He checks so many of the boxes you want to along with so many of the underlying influences that he had on the game. And he had 80 receiving first downs.

I think that that stats is really, that speaks to it where he's just moving the chains consistently the entire season. and it was really hard to take him out of a game. And even when you did, like, kind of on Sunday or Saturday, whatever the hell that game happened, I have no idea anymore. Kirk Cousins finished 31 of 39 in that game. I mean, you open things up for other guys. So even if he's not piling it up, the reason he's not piling it up is because other guys are open. And I thought that was a perfect example. We've hinted to that before.

But anytime you watch a Vikings game, watch the Red Zone and watch all the eyeballs that go on Justin Jefferson and how it pops everybody else open. Like T.J. Hawkinson caught up first down. They motioned Jefferson to the other side. This was in the red zone. It was like third and three. Motion Jefferson to the other side. Three guys on the Giants defense got influenced just by him going in motion. That's how many.

And T.J. Hockens gets a wide open out route on a sprint out. That first down metric, and we're going to be referring to a lot about first downs, he had 80 first downs. That's more catches. Amari Cooper had 78 catches. Brandon Ayuk had 78 catches. Terry McCoran had 77 catches, receptions. Jamlin Waddle had 75 receptions. Mike Evans, 77.

He had more first downs than these guys had catches. That's crazy. That's ridiculous what he is. But no, everything. I test, the influence of the game. He's valuable to his team. Awesome player. I think he's more than deserving of this award.

Defensive player of the year. Who do you got? As much as I wanted Parsons to get this award, it's too hard not to give it to Nick Bosa. I think Nick Bosa was just, I mean, unbelievable this season. Just metric-wise, I think it's a two-horse race between those two. There's some other nice players, but I think Nick Bosa is the pick here. He had 49 hits and sacks combined this year in the last 10 years.

So since 2012, the next highest is T.J. Watt in 22 with 42. And he only, he didn't play all 17 games. So you can't say, oh, yeah, an extra game to do that. There are only two players that have more than 40. He almost had 50. I mean, just other stuff, the pressures. He had 90, they both had 90 pressures, Parsons and Bosa. But just everything, the pressure rate, it's not just, you know, he's affecting every play.

And again, we're talking about how other teams have to get influenced by him. Watch how teams have to treat Nick Bosa. You have to account for where he's at every snap. But amazing year from him, amazing year from Parsons as well. But I think Bosa really ran with it that last month of the season. PFF has a stat called pass rush productivity, which is it weights. sex and hits higher than pressures, and it's just kind of a per snap rate metric about how you affect the quarterback.

So this season, the only guys with at least 20% of their team snaps that ranked higher were Josh Uche and Bryce Huff, who are situational pass rushers. DPRs, yeah, does the pass rushers. So for players that played at least half their team snaps, Bosa had the highest pass rush productivity marks since 2015. That's how good he was on a per snap basis. He was incredible. All the other pass rushers that have come through in that time, Miles Garrett, T.J. Watt,

Like, I mean, damn, it's impressive. He had twice as many quarterback hits as anyone else in the league this season. I picked Nick Bosa before the season. You did? I think Nick Bosa will win the award. Yeah. I did not pick Nick Bosa. Who's you going with?

I picked Chris Jones. Wow. Wow. I love it on my short list, but I did not give it to him. I love it. No, I want to hear this. I was digging into the numbers and just kind of thinking about the game he had last week.

So Brandon Thorne does something called true sack rate, which measures the quality of a player's sacks beyond just the total number. And there's a bunch of different factors involved in it. Chris Jones had 12 high quality sacks this season, which was more than any other player in the league. He had the second highest true sack score in the NFL other than Hassan Reddick. Okay. He did this while being double-teamed at the highest rate of any player in the league.

That's incredible. That's insane. He had the fifth highest pass rush win rate, according to PFF, according to ESPN, among all players, and the highest double-team rate among all players. To be able to do this while getting double-teamed at that rate is absolutely insane. He had 77 pressures. That was the fifth most of all players at any position. And he did that being double-teamed at the highest rate of anyone in the NFL. Only Max Crosby played more pass-rush snaps this year than Chris Jones at 300.

110 pounds, whatever he is, is an interior defensive line. And the one that, the stat that really jumps out to me, two of them, one's a stat and one's just kind of a field thing, 71% of his sacks this season ended opponent drives. That's it. He's the closer. That's what he is. That's what I keep coming back to.

He had 15 and a half sacks, by the way. He had 15.5 sacks as an into, he plays inside outside, but majority of time he plays interior. Yeah. Okay. He 71% of his sacks, that's, that's, he's, he's, he's, he. right up there near the top of the league. Reddix was at 78.

That guy was just a drive-ender. But right in like the top three or four of all players at any position that had that were in the top 10 like overall sacks. Okay. All of his sacks when you go back and watch him. Third down late in the third quarter against the chargers in a one score game. Final drive of the second charger game when they're down a field goal with 30 seconds left to get a sack on the first play.

Third down in the fourth quarter against the bills when they're up by a field goal gets a sack. Third and nine in the red zone. against the Jags and what was becoming a tight game. A minute left, fourth and two, up three against the Broncos in the fourth quarter, drive-ending sack to finish it off. Every single sack of his this year seemed to come in one of those big moments. And it's the high-quality ones.

The quality is measured by how quickly you're getting it. Is it a coverage sack? Who are you going against? And so his ability to affect the game in the biggest moments consistently from the position that he did while drawing the attention that he did, I'm giving it to him. You know, Bosa had a really nice season, but Bosa doesn't get double-teamed at that rate. It gets chipped a decent amount. But if you look at the numbers, it does not happen at quite the same pace.

They had the same amount of run stops. They both had 10 pressures that led to throwaways, which was near the top of the league. But it wasn't probably most of PBOUs as well. Three. It was only three. So he didn't have a ton. But I just felt like. Just wait for the playoffs.

Yeah. He'll double it. The rate at which he affected the game, the moments at which he affected the game. and then the overall counting stats, to do that as a defensive tackle, I thought was remarkable. And I think that part of the reason that we don't throw him in there as quickly is that the chiefs don't have this culture of defense. No. And I think that that's why we overlook him because of how we talk about Mahomes and how we talk about the offense and Kelsey and what they've been like over the last few years. But the double team thing is what puts it over the top for me.

How much attention he's drawing and still affecting the game when it matters most. that's what did it. And so I know it's kind of a strange choice. And I was on both all year. But as I sat down to really dig into it today, and I was like, you know what? Chris Jones is going me my pick. I love it. I absolutely love it. He came in third because I stack these for me behind Parsons. And then fourth, I actually thought for a split second, you were going to drop in Fred Warner there out of nowhere. Like that's who I thought you're going with there. But I get it with Jones. And I love that you're bringing up all the third down the fourth quarter stats or close game stats, I should say, because that's what. he is, and I use the term closer that stole it from Robo, but also it's the clutch time. Like, it's just like, and you watch other sports and you see the, you know, runners in

scoring position stats, you know, two strike stats also or in basketball, you know, one score games in basketball, how they shoot and everything. That's what Chris Jones does. He steps up. That's why he sticks in your brain so much. It's not some empty first down sack on first, you know, in the first quarter, you know, and going against a backup guard 101. He takes the best, or takes on the best every single snap.

And those instant pressures are so valuable. The fact that he gets there so quick, there's no runarounds. The play's dead. But I wonder where it was time to sack is because those plays are dead. I was trying to find it. And I don't think it's readily available with any of the services that we use. Because I did want to find that out because, and that's the high quality sacks. That's a measure of that.

How quickly are you winning? How are you getting your sacks? It's not late in the down. And you feel that point, man. That matters. And why it happens is when you're on the inside. This is why good pass rushers on the inside are insanely valuable. You should be listening to this as a guy scouting some defensive players for the bears this offseason is.

But why that's so valuable is, well, where do teams invest in? Tackles, you know, and also you're taking double teams. Okay, you're taking on two guys and winning as opposed to just a nose tackle, just taking, just taking the blocks and just sitting there, you know, and everybody else can get freed up. You're actually affecting the game. So I understand it. I really do.

I think Bosa is, yeah, easily going to win it. And that was my pick. I haven't wavered in the second half of the year. But I understand Chris Jones is a fucking good football player. It's very, very close. And I easily could have picked Bosa. But I just felt like he's not getting nearly enough love here. He's not going to be in these conversations to the degree that he should.

And I just wanted to throw it out there. It's one of my big regrets. I didn't pick him in the non-QB draft. That was one of my big regrets of this year. All right. executive of the year. I like this. So what is this?

Is this adapted screenplay? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Exactly the year. There's some other guys. I want to mention the other guys first. John Lynch and John Schneider. I are on my other short list.

Just who they lynch, look at this roster. I mean, not even considering the quarterback, but I know Kyle Shanahan has a lot of say in it. But look at how many these guys are just stars now, that middle round, late round picks. the trades he's made, you know, for CMC. John Schneider is my other one. The revamp, he, right now, that's one of the biggest trade wins in NFL history. I mean, getting those picks, what happened with Russell, but betting on Gino, even though maybe sometimes they kind of backed their way into Gino.

Also with all those rookies that he just crushed in this draft. I mean, this is one of the best drafts in the, in a while, I really think, the Seahawks draft, they nailed it. But, I haven't said, all that, my pick is Howie Roseman for the Philadelphia Eagles. I would put Josh Fedder second for everything you just said. The Russell trade is a coup, the amount of the picks that they got, the guys that they drafted, how they've set themselves up. But just look at all the moves and Howard Rosen made this spring to set up this team. Yeah.

Yeah. Look at this team. And all these and all the one-year flyers on guys that, I mean, just he should have gotten it alone for getting, for getting Son Redick and Bradbury. Like that, like just those two alone should win him to award. I think, much less the AJ Brown trade and everything else. I was like, those two guys just signing those guys off for pretty cheap deals. That should get you to award because look at those two. AJ Brown, something that happened this year.

This is a hard award to give out sometimes because a lot of things that are short-term gains lead to long-term losses or there are moves that are going to move the needle really far in year one. But as you start to pay for them in the future, it's harder to understand exactly how valuable those moves were, okay? but all of these moves that he made, or you see some of the quality after two years, you know, right. Oh, man, this guy's great, but, you know, he drafted Devante Smith two years ago.

Right. So that's why it's hard executive of the year because these are also, a lot of the times these are multi-year considerations. Yeah, exactly. They're multi-year considerations, you know, and so that's not the case here. No. The Sadratic, and we'll see what happens with the sign, right? That's a multi-year deal, but that looks like a home run.

He's making $15 million a year. We just talked about he had the highest true sack rate in the entire. NFL this year. He was right there as one of the most effective pass rushers in the entire league. And that guy ends drives for opposing teams. So they got him at a less than market rate price. He's making like 15 million bucks a year. Csacks go for what?

Like two million a pop? Like basically a market rate value. That's about what it is. And this guy, I mean, Nick, Nick Bose is going to make $30 million a year on his next contract. Hassan Reddick makes half of that. Yes. And he was one of the best pass rushers in football this season. James Bradbury.

signed for like seven million bucks. I still don't understand that one. Like how he, how he managed. He was my second team all pro corner. And I think he's probably in the conversation as one of the best corners in the league this season. Top 10 at the very least got for seven million bucks.

They traded nothing for CJ Gardner Johnson right before the season started. Yes. Another one. Yes. Nothing. Yes. That's such a good one. Signing Linval Joseph and Domic and Domic and Sue in the middle of the season.

What Linval Joseph allows them to be on defense now, the role that he's filled. They aren't just relying. on Jordan Davis as much anymore to be the guy in the middle of their defense. And then obviously the big one is the AJ Brown trade. But to go get AJ Brown for a first round pick and a little bit of change when some of these other guys are going for a first and a second, AJ Brown is 25. Right. AJ Brown is going to be there for a while.

And they signed AJ Brown to a sizable contract, but not a crippling contract. I just think that everything about their team building plan this season and over the last two years, but specifically this year, I think it gives it to Howie Rosman. And I don't think it's particularly close. They had a reset hard. You know, they went through Capel and kind of had to revamp their whole team and he's crushed it. I mean, seriously, he really has. That team is just, it's ridiculous.

And just thinking it this way. They did. No, Bradbury didn't get all pro, did he? I was going to say, he signed or traded for three all pros, one off season on top of all the the building and all the picks he's accumulated and all the other stuff that he has done. the fact that he's getting that level of quality where other teams have those avenues. It's not like we're not giving it to him because he took Andrew Luck number one overall. And it's like, wow, you know, way to go.

You know, anything like that. It's like all these moves are him, like, or his organization and his personnel staff. And the fact that they're finding these ways, they're red paper clipping it. It's unbelievable. So I think he easily wins this award. I, I wrote the other guys I wanted to mention, but this was a feather and a cap year for Howie. You got the 10th overall pick coming this year. by the way.

Oh, yeah. It's also a trade that they made this year. Yeah, sprinkled in there. Everything about the way. Old line depth. It was just an unbelievable job. All right. Yes.

Assistant coach of the year. I forgot this was an AP award until last night. Okay. When they flashed it on the screen that Dan Quinn won it last year. So I was like, oh, let's throw this in here. Let's let's throw it in. Yeah. Oh, man.

My short list is like eight guys. So you want me to go first? Yeah, go first. I want to hear what you say. I couldn't pick. really my answer is i am a coward no let's do a podium let's do a top three like yeah all right so this is why it was hard because i think that some of the answers i would have had contradicted some of the other awards that i was going to hand out for a bunch of reasons so that's why you do want to

kind of go against your own logic kind of thing yeah yes okay so shan stuyken was one of the first names that came to mind he's on my shore list okay well look at all the talent that the eagles have. Correct. You know, so that's, it's why Nick Seriani isn't my coach of the year because how his husband is my executive of the year. Correct. So I was like, all right, am I really going to give it to Stuygens? Spoilers. But I thought the job that they did molding their offense this season, evolving their offense, folding in that new talent. He's been a lot of finding answers. You said evolving. So good. So good. I'm very impressed with him. The transition that they've made from who they were last year into who they are now.

We had so much conversation about that and what they would be on offense. And it's even better than I think most of us could have imagined. He's on there. Domingo Ryan's. What Domingo Ryans has done with the 49ers defense, we forget that like Tashon Gibson is a starter for the Niners, who's a guy they signed off the street before the year started. They lost Emmanuel Mosley.

We don't even talk about it because Lenora's playing just fine. They haven't had Eric Armstead for chunks of the season. Javon Kinlaw didn't play a ton. We just talk about the Niners like they have this overwhelming amount of talent. And they have a lot of really good players. But we don't even notice when some of those guys are in and out of the lineup because of how well coached they are on that side of the ball. And I think that's really, really important. Mike Kafka calling plays for that Giants team that is top 10 in offensive DVO way with the island of misfit toys out there.

It's insane. Ben Johnson called the most of the first. On the Thursday show, I'm going to talk about my becoming. Kafka-pilled. A lot of Kafka talk is coming this week. So there be some Kafka talk later this week, just spoilers. And Ben Johnson was the other one that I had. Another great one.

Second half of the season, they were the most efficient offense in football. And I really like some of the pieces that they have. Like I love Amon-Ross St. Brown, but to create this offense without this overwhelming wave of skill position talent, the line is good. But it wasn't a grind you into dust. We can run the ball for six yards to carry line the second half the season. Yes. Yes.

And so that that was my group of four that I just kind of ripped off the top of my head. And I just didn't want to pick because I couldn't. Yeah. No, I. That's great. So Domego Ryan's was my pick. And why I almost wavered from it was trying to, you know, they do have some damn good players like Fred Warner and Nick Rosa and Hufanga.

Jimmy Ward was an all pro for me. But I also, that speaks to what the innovation I've seen from Ryan's and why he ended up being my pick was he put Jimmy Ward of the frickin nickel and stuff like that and and trusting Lenore. Lenore was going to be the slot guy and he revamped and changed it. I mean, I watched this whole preseason with them trying to figure it out. And also every week, even though they run, you know, some similar coverages week after week. And of course, Fred Warner unlocks a lot of that being able to run quarters and he takes away the middle is that you watch their blitz packages.

He changes that shit up, which shows to me that he understands what the offense is doing. seems just unbelievably brilliant as a coach. And I mean, the game that sticks out to me, this is last year. And I'm actually, that's why I'm so curious about this year is 40-9ers Cowboys in the playoffs. Remember those, and 49ers Packers in the playoffs. Those fastball blitzes he was showing and fake blitzes and simulated. He did that all throughout this year and changing how he attacks offenses rather than just.

I'm already getting excited about the game. Jack versus the 49ers defense. Oh my God, I cannot wait. But no, he was my, he ended up being my pick, all the short list guys that, you brought up. We're on my short list as well. The one non-coordinator I had up there is Jeff Stoutland from the Eagles, just because I think that Eagles off into line.

I love watching them. I had both Cowboys assistants on my short list as well. Like I said, I'd eight guys, guys. You're going to have to listen to all this. I totally, I totally get the Cowboys guys. I think that what a game by Kellynmore last night. What a called game. I mean, DAC was fantastic, but so many different personnel groupings and alignments and

won by three formations and we're getting this answer because of this. and we're going empty so we get quarters. It was just both of them were just pulling the right levers all night at the right times. It's awesome. Kelmore is really, I've always liked him, but he's really impressed me this year, not getting,

just understanding what they are. And I just love that offense too. Ben Johnson, like you said, Louana Rumo was on my short list as well because I got to throw him some credit. I love watching him too. He just didn't have that maybe one thing I could stick with in Evro from the Broncos as well. That was another one.

They kind of tapered off in the year, but at probably the midway point, he was my guy. That was my pick if I had to pick one of these, but kind of second half the year kind of wavered with that. But a lot of good coaches out there right now. A lot of cool units out there right now. And Domeko Rines ended up being my pick. But all these guys, I would have not blinked an eye if you picked one of them. If he doesn't get a head coaching job and Everow ends up being a defensive coordinator somewhere,

whoever gets him is part of this cycle. That's a crew. Because the only reason he's not a bigger head coach candidate name. and a hotter name is because of their lack of team success. Yes. Like typically you don't have somebody who's that good as a coordinator become available like this when he has because of the way the Broncos imploded. Oh, they had, they said like, oh, you might be interviewing with the Falcons for the DC spot.

Yeah, he is. I was like, Arthur Smith, man, you know what you're doing, buddy, building that super weapon down there. Like, that would be, I would love that pairing down there. All right. Offensive rookie of the year. Okay. This one, this one is. Fun. I think this one's really fun for me anyways. Okay. I ended up going with Chris Olav.

So did I, which annoys me. That does annoy me too. We were in the pre-show meeting. You mentioned something with Alave. I was like, oh, that means you've been looking at it. And this goes into counting stats, situation and also just underlying metrics. That's why I'm going with Al-Alave. Al-A miss some time. Second for me, this will help my discussion with Al-Ave is Garrett Wilson. They're house eight teammates. Yes. And then, Third is the, third is the Falcons duo of Tower Alger and Drake London. I didn't know which. Kenneth Walker, I think, is worth mentioning as well. He's in there as well. Yes, but that was my 3A, 3B, 3C, I guess, too, as well. But this is where why I just truly really like watching Olavé and why I consider my offensive rookie the year.

Just underlying metrics, not only he finished with over 1,000 yards, 0,042 on 72 catches, which is pretty substantial. He, since rookie receiver since 2012. So it's an 89 player sample size that have run 300 more routes. Alave is fifth yards per route run. The only four above them, OBJ, A.J. Brown, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase. That's insane. That's a great stat.

That's a great group right there. There are only 14 rookie receivers that have averaged two or more yards per route run. And I'll just finish it off because I love this list. So it's OBJ, AJ Brown, Justin Jefferson, Jamar Chase, Alave, Juju Smith-Schuster, who people forget, had an amazing start to his career. Drake London. Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, Cooper Cup, Scary Terry, Debo Samuel, Keenan Allen, and Chase Claypool, who kind of ruins the sample size a little bit.

Chase Claypool is coming back strong this year, all right? I don't want to hear any Chase Claypool slander on the show. I ruined my stat a little bit, but that's a great group to be a part of. Elvay's fourth and first downs per route among a rookie since 2012. Garrett Wilson, who also finished with 1100 yards, four touchdowns, way more. targets. Yes, he played with some crap QB play this year, but over a hundred of his targets came when the Jets were trailing. No receiver had more targets this year in the entire league, not just rookies, when they're down by two scores than Garrett Wilson. And that is not to say Garrett Wilson is

not a good player. He is a exceptional player. It's just that a lot of that production, those counting stats came as empty calorie stats. And that's for me what tips it over for Alave. I think he is just more down-to-down efficient and still had the basic counting stats. But that's why I can understand if you do want to give it to Wilson, but that's why I'm making it with Alavi. Just that yards per route run stats sticks with me and that group that he's in, that showed that he had a truly exceptional year. I had a really hard time picking between them.

Yeah. So this morning, I was looking at a lot of the stats, looking a lot of the rate stats. And I'm like, man, Alave played two fewer games than Garrett Wilson. That might be enough to change it. So I was like, okay, I still can't decide. It's tough. But let's go to the tape. So I went back and I just pulled up all of their targets each guy.

And I watched the second half of the season for each guy. And Chris Oliva is just a high, high level NFL receiver already. He's a star. And I think that's what kind of put it over the top. And Wilson, it moves so differently. Like you can just feel the amount of explosiveness and juice he has every time he touches the ball. He just moves differently than other guys on the field. And that, I'm very excited about who he's going to be in the league.

And he is clearly like a guy immediately. And you can feel that when you watch him. But Olava has all of it already. Yes. The thing that I think is so crazy about Olave is all these efficiency metrics that you're talking about. He did this while averaging the fourth deepest target in the entire NFL. The only guys who ever had deeper targets per air yards per target in the NFL, fell this season.

The Chris Olavé were Gabe Davis, DJ Chark, George Pickens. That's it. And those are all true X's, vertical X's. Yes. That's what they are. So you have that. And so he's a deep threat already. He can just, he's running by people already, but that's not all he is.

The idea of what Chris Salave could be coming into the season, this guy who has four to and change speed, but is also incredibly polished, that idea has already been realized. Correct. He is the best version of who we thought he might be coming into the league. The deep stats are there. He's an incredible deep receiver already. He was fourth in the NFL and yards per route run against zone coverage. His feel for setting stuff down and when to cut routes off and settling in zones and the way he moves back to the ball and sits down.

His awareness combined with the route running savvy combined with the explosiveness. Like he is everything we wanted him to be. already. And then you combine that with what the stats tell you. You said first downs per route run for rookie receivers over that time. Chris Olavi this season, okay, was 11th in first downs per route run among all players. Here are the guys ahead of him. Tyreek Hill, Amon Ross St. Brown, Travis Kelsey, Stefan Diggs, Cooper Cup, C.D. Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Drake London.

J. Owen Waddle, Jamar Chase. That's it. that's it. That is the company he's kept this year with. With the type of player he was down in and down out. And you mentioned yards per route run and rookie receivers for that stretch. He was seventh this year. The only guys ahead of him in yards per route run this season,

ahead of Chris Olive, where Tyree Kill, Justin Jefferson, J. Waddle, A.J. Brown, Stefan Diggs, Devante Adams. That's wild. All pro. I mean, that those are all pro players. Yes. And so the effect he was having on the game consistently.

beyond just the counting stats, all of that. I just could not give it to him, even if Wilson's volume metrics and the overall production were a little bit higher. Yep. No, and that's what it is. I'm glad you talked about how he came in. When we talked about him in the draft process, I loved Olave.

I loved him because I haven't watched a receiver that just truly, truly polished. I love Devante Smith as well. Devante Smith has a lot of that as well, his ball skills and everything. It's kind of different, but it was just, Alave was a pro receiver playing in college already. A true route three level route runner. What you talked about with the zone stuff is so, so, so like what Alave is that feel like if he's running a curl route, he breaks it sharp. Like right back at the quarterback, perfectly how you would teach it. But then he understands how, if it's scramble drill, he understands how just moves intelligently.

He's an intelligent football player on top of running a four three flat or whatever. he ran to something ridiculous. No, I think, I'm glad he brought all the stats up to it because it's just he had less chances. Andy Dalton played fine this year. Yes, he overall probably had a better quarterback session than Garrett Wilson did, but he didn't have the same opportunities. He's running true routes.

He's not getting any of the gimmick stuff. It's not like he just, you know, nerfed his stats because they only throw the ball, you know, 10 times a game and a heavy play action offense. You know, something of that sort. Yes, they do it, but not like a Titans, you know, during AJ Brown's rookie year. But it's just, it's true offensive football and he's running a complete, his route tree percentage is 100%. Like if it was an RPG and you had a max, max out his stats, this is at like 99 trying to like bump it up a little bit more. He's incredible.

I'm really glad that you ended up on the same one, even though people are going to laugh at us because people should watch this dude. He is really, really fun. He's awesome. What he reminds me of, and this is kind of what we thought he might be coming into the league. And again, it's kind of been realized. to me he's Calvin Ridley with more vertical speed. Yeah. Like that's what he feels like where he has all of the route running savvy and all that stuff

that Calvin Ridley really, really thrives on. But he runs a 427. He can run by you. And that's what he did this year. And that kind of guy. Ramsey, he torched Ramsey. He's going to be really, really good. I'm excited to watch it moving forward.

So the other, we talked a lot about this year, is like earning targets. Like how much do you earn targets within your offense? So you the first route in the progression, how does that work? The receivers who had a higher percentage of targets per route run this season in the NFL than Chris Olabe, where Tyreek Hill, Austin Echler, Devante Adams, Cooper Cup, and again, Drake London. Yeah, that's it. Yes. Also, all these underlying Drake London stats, that's all I was just about to say. Go go buy Drake London real, real cheap in your dynasty league.

Yes. Go, go do it. He's the real deal as well. These are, those are my top two receivers in this draft. I feel happy about it. But having said all this, Garrett Wilson is still a great player as well. It's just that- He's a force of nature with the ball in his hands when he's moving. I just think he just jumps off the screen.

The ways that Alave is great, I think, are quieter than the ways that Garrett-Wilson impacts the game and shows off right now and kind of shows out. But I don't think it's any less impactful. I think it's more impactful, even if it's not as obvious. Because you're going to dial up, you can dial up anything for Alavi, which is you don't, there's not a lot of players in the league. can do that for. And that's what the best receivers are. You can dial up any of his type of play and he's going to maximize it. That's what it is. I totally agree. Do you have a third? Who do you have for it? Kenneth Walker was my third. Kenneth Walker was a really good productive player. Another great fun player. Yeah. Sonic the Hitchock. That's what that's what I'm calling him now.

Because that's how he runs like he spun up and runs into the office. It's a lot. I don't want to be mean about this. We're not doing this with Brock Purdy. No. We're not doing this. I don't want to hear about it again. No. He started five games this. season. This is not happening. But just no, no, that's not it. No, but I will talk about my other ones. I had Tyler Algier, because he really came on the second half of the year. I wish it was the first half of the year, too, at my 60 to one betting ticket that I had on him. But he finished with over 1,000 yards and 16 games, already productive receiver. That's what he was in college as well coming out of BYU. To me, he seemed like he got faster as a season went along. Like, I think maybe being in a pro

program like weightlifting and I think I think he was a maybe diet a little bit with him because he looked a little surreal thing was like the real thing was like it really is but he was first an EPA per target that small sample size he finished third among players in first downs per rush with players of 200 more rushes only behind Josh Jacobs and Aaron Jones that's that's pretty good pretty good uh good player Falcons are another team that nailed their draft as well because they got a couple very very good players Drake one and Towerage are being those All right, defensive rookie of the year. I think this is pretty easy.

I'll just say Saus Gardner, New York Jets. It's, I mean, he grabbed that award and didn't let up the entire year. If you want the reasoning, just go back and listen to our all-pro shows. Yeah, I'll just repeat some of the stats. He led the league and forced incompletions, according to PFF, despite ranking 30th in targets. Yes. He forced an incompletion on 28% of his targets. No player in the league was higher than 22%.

he led the league in PbUs despite ranking 30th in targets. That's incredible. And you brought it up on the all pro show. Usually the guy that leads ads because they're getting targeted a bunch because the offenses want to target them. No, offenses don't want to target them. And then what they do, he's punishing it. He's awesome.

Tariq Wollin had a really, really good rookie season. I'm very excited about the player that Tariq Wollin is going to be. Soss Gardner was a first team all pro level corner as a rookie. Yes. The key is the defensive rookie of the year. There's not that much more. more to it than that for me. And Aiden Hutchinson had a nice second half of the year.

Nope, but it was soft. If Aiden Hutchinson had the second half of the season he had in the first half of the season, this would have been a more interesting conversation. But he took a while to come on because rookies take a while to come up. They don't come in week one and lock down corner week one, going against top tier receivers like Jamar Chase. Well, that was week two. But Jamar Chase and T.

Higgins and not missing a beat. He's awesome, guys. Sauce Gardner is as complete of a corner as you'll ever want. watch. He's long. He's physical. He's smart. He is awesome. Sick player easily wins his award for me. I'm excited about Hutchinson. I did not think he'd be this good, this fast. And what he did during the second half of the season, I had concerns about him. I concerned about the frame and just kind of some of the ways he won in college. He's better than I thought he was going to be. I'm excited to watch him moving forward. He's a really good player, but sauce wins is going away in my opinion. I agree.

I'm right there with you. Hutchinson, I knew what I have a high floor, not new, but, I assumed he would have a high floor. It was all about seeing the fact that he's almost hitting double-digit sacks as a rookie is great. That's awesome. Huge. Huge for the lines. Because that's what I was worried about. Coach of the year.

This one is so, so hard this year. I have five guys, I think, on my short list. I have, I have four. I think that you could probably put more on there. Who was your winner? Let's talk about the guys who did not win it first. Okay. I have Pete Carroll as one of mine.

Pete Carroll is a great one. Yes. Pete Carroll. I'm Mike McDaniel, but that was kind of like a legacy award from the first half of the year. I think that tails off a little bit, but he deserves mention here for what that offense looked like when two was healthy. I had Nick Siriani,

who was my winner, the first third and second third of the year, but then time went on time. I thought you were going to go with Siriani. I almost did. I almost did. And then I think I know who you have, but then Brian Dable was my other one.

And then you ready? my winner is Kyle Shanahan. I get it. He is not my winner, but he is my runner up. And I think that kind of came on late. Explain your reasoning, but it's, I think he's my runner up for probably similar reasons. This is, this is not like, this is not the reason, but I have an anecdote, a personal anecdote

of what kind of started my thinking, maybe about two weeks ago. So yeah, it was right around years. And my father-in-law was over, who was in the kitchen with me, and we were just talking. And they came over on a Sunday morning to help us out with a newborn, obviously. And we had Red Zone Channel on. And they showed the 49ers game. And he just looks at me. And my father knows a little bit about football, but he looks at me.

He goes, man, Kyle Shanahan, he's got that, he's got Mr. Irrelevant at quarterback. You would think any, he's got with coach of the year, right? Anybody with a third-string quarterback's doing what he does has to be coach of the year. And I was, I just kind of sat and stared at it. I was like, might be on to something, Jim. And I kind of, I started diving again. And the more I thought about it, this team, it wasn't, even with Trey Lance projected to be the start of this year, it wasn't like they projected to win nine and a half games.

That was their expected win loss. And their win total projection by Vegas was nine and half games. They went 13 and 4. Their second in SRS, you know, which is the simple rating system on football, football reference. They're second of DVO race. favorite in the NFC now. Mr. Irrelevant is their starting quarterback.

Rookie. A seventh round rookie is their starting quarterback. They're the betting favorite against the Eagles team that ran rough shot over the conference for the entire year. Yeah. And how this team is playing offense and defense, you know, of course he has, this isn't just being best play caller, but of course he has that in his bag right now. He has an influence on their personnel and what the personnel looks like.

the defense and letting Domeika Ryan's do what he does. I'm pretty easy to do when the defense plays like that. But he has, I mean, just being a coach and everything, I feel like this 49ers team is the most confident I've seen this 409ers team. Of course, when you're winning games, that helps. But I felt more as more as clock management stuff and that type of stuff. I didn't have maybe as many frustrations with him. He's going forward on a fort down more than he used to, which is encouraging to me.

It's still not great, but it's better than it used to be. He used to be like a boomer. Like, he was way back there. But I give it to him. I just, I love this team. I love watching him. He has so much influence in this team. They over,

over did a blue past expectations, even if you're optimistic with them. And they did it in a, a firm way. They did it a, they left no doubt, especially in that last six-ish weeks of the season, which should have been when they, you know,

maybe the top, the car and out spell over when they go into the third straight quarterback. So I, I gave it to him. I gave Kyle Shan coach of the year. I did not expect. that maybe even a few weeks ago, but really have been sitting on it. And I feel pretty good about it.

I think they've had a tremendous year, and he's done an absolutely amazing job as a coach. It's hard not to give it to him. I totally understand the argument. The other side, the one thing you didn't mention, his entire offensive coaching staff left. Yes. Over the last two years, the entire offensive coaching staff left. Another great point. Okay, let's go through it.

Mike McDaniel was his offensive coordinator last year. He left last season. Mike Bufluer was his offensive coordinator two years ago or one of his two offensive coordinator. Mike's kind of worked together. Whatever. He was gone. John Benton was their offensive line coach two years ago.

He went with Robert Salah to go with the Jets. Bobby Turner, their longtime running backs coach, he's gone. He retired or was semi-retired before the season started. Wes Walker was their running back or their wide receivers coach last year. He's in Miami with Mike McDaniel. Their tight ends coach last season was John Embry, who was their assistant head coach, been with Chanahan forever. he's the tight ends coach in Miami right now.

Their quarterbacks coach, Rick Skangarillo, was their quarterback's coach last year. He's the office coordinator in Kentucky or was the office quarterback last year. The whole staff is different. He replaced his entire offensive staff and has the best offensive football or arguably the best offensive football with a seventh round rookie quarterback. That's crazy. It is crazy. And you know how much it's on him.

No, but the coaching staff stuff is the brain drain could have been so bad. I remember when I went there for camp and I'm looking around. I'm like, man, I don't recognize anything. It's exactly what I thought. Anthony lived, I recognized, obviously. Yeah, but the other kind of assistants and all that. But the quarterback coach is, what's space? Brian Greasy.

Yeah, Brian Greasy. It's not like he's been a long, tendered, tenured coach around the NFL either. Like, he's a smart guy and everything, of course. But no, that's another great point. I thank you for the more bolt points for my coach of the year pick. I totally understand it. He was runner up. I get it.

I think the talent is so incredible what they can do with the talent. That's the only thing where it just gives me a tiny bit of pause. The other guy, that's it. If you want to give it to him, I totally get giving it to him. Brian Daibble and that staff with the Giants, look at the guys they're trotting out there.

And this is not something that's colored by what they did against the Vikings. I already was going to give it to him. They already had a top 10 offense coming into the playoffs. You said two weeks ago on the show. I said it. So it was not something that I was swayed by a playoff game and we're supposed to make this on regular season. No. Resumes and regular season production.

What they did with that team and that talent on offense, I think is the most impressive thing any coaching staff did this year with Calhattananan being a very, very, very close runner up. And, you know, my Kafka calls the plays, but this is kind of what does it for me. He assembled that staff this year. So if we're doing Coach of the Year for what you accomplished in 2020, 22, he put together that staff. And the self-awareness, Dan Duggan from the Athletic, if you guys want to go read it, wrote a great piece about how the Giants assembled their coaching staff. And they did it a little bit differently than a lot of teams do. And I heard about this in the summer when I was there.

And I'm glad that Dan wrote about it. And for Brian Dable to look at the potential offensive coordinators and to go seek out someone like Mike Kafka who he did not know, think about how many buddies get hired. Yes. Think about how many buddies get hired. And think about how hard that becomes when you have to fire one. Like Brand Staley just had to fire his college offensive coordinator who he's known forever. Like that's, it's not entangled.

Yes. Brian Dable sought out Mike Kafka because he was interested in what the chiefs did on offense. And he's like, I like those ideas. Let me see if I can incorporate some of those ideas. To do that, I think was really smart and special. The ways that he built the rest of his staff, going out and doing the same thing with Wink Martindale and saying, I don't know, Wink. Martinale, but that's a hard as hell of defense to play against.

Yep. I might as well try to get me some of that. That requires so much confidence and a combination of confidence in humility. Yeah. Where you just, you're not a, you don't, you know you don't know everything and you're not worried about somebody that maybe has a rising star or exactly. Just all of those different things, I feel like was so, so smart. Yeah.

On his behalf. The situational decision making. How on top of things they are all the time. Some of the fourth down decisions that they had. Going back to week one, what they did against the Titans setting the stage for their entire year and being that sort of team. Building an offense completely around the skill sets of your players. Having Daniel Jones looked, revitalizing Sequin Barclay's career, dealing with some rotations at offensive line because you had some guys heard. This team was supposed to be tearing it down.

This team was third from the bottom of the NFL in cash spending. season. The only teams who spent last cash on their roster this year than the New York Giants with the Atlanta Falcons and the Chicago Bears. We know that those two teams are doing. They had to actively cut players in order to field the roster. They had to get rid of James Bradbury because of the cap hell that they were in. And it's not like they just luckily stumbled into the playoffs. This is a top 10 offense according to the advanced metrics that you want to look at. And that's what it felt like by the end. Everything makes sense. Everything is built in the right way and it looks totally different than it looked like he was in Buffalo last year or

the chiefs look like this is a ground up coaching job and if we're trying to award the best coaching job of the year and that includes assembling the staff and all of that I have to give it to Brian Dable I just think he is the winner I like it I when when Dan Quinn came in Atlanta that was the line that he had about Kyle Shanahan when he hired him his office coordinator I don't know Kyle I made a couple times at the combine but I know know his offenses were paying the ass to defend. So that's why he went out and got him. That's understanding the league.

That's understanding, like we're talking about self-awareness, just awareness of other things. There's so many people that you brought up the buddy hiring, you know, hiring your buddies. That's just lack of awareness of what's going on, the trends of the NFL. A lot of these coaches getting their own little hole, little pigeon hole. Oh, it's only who they vote for is who they played against that year. Whoever they watched on tape, they don't expand their horizons sometimes.

or like you said, they think they don't have that humility, humility because they think, oh, what I did is the best. Why would I care what the chiefs are doing? That's what happens to a lot of coaches too. And the aggressiveness and understanding the self-awareness, that's why I'm just going to keep coming back to as well. Understanding that we are the underdog in these games, so we have to be aggressive. We have to do trick plays.

We have to do going for it on fourth down. Those going for going for two. Understanding that, so many of these NFL guys are, I would say, the older generation, it was always like, well, we just want it more. Well, sometimes you got to understand you're a 12 point dog. And sometimes you got to understand these things what you are compared to other teams and your opponent. And that way you have to change your own game plan because of it. And I think they do it time after time after time.

Every time I watch this Giants offense, I just and defense, I should say too. It's like they don't make a lot of mistakes. And that starts at the top because how they probably practice is probably they probably practice really well and probably really efficiently. And their meetings are probably really good because both sides. of the ball don't make a lot of mistakes. And that starts at the top. And I get it.

I'm still going with Shanahan, but it's a really, really impressive job what they've done with the Giants this year. The last small thing, a guy like Kenny Gallaudet, who's making all that big money. And them saying, you know what? No. If you're not the best guy, if you're not the guy who's going to give us the best chance to win, if you're not going to be a distillation of what we're trying to

build here, you're not going to play. And them going out and getting a guy like Isaiah Hodgins and him becoming the most efficient receiver on their team. That is an unbelievable coaching job. Hutchins is a real deal, by the way. He's real. I said it last week, man. I'm in.

I like, that guy can just play. He's just good. He's just good. I'm watching them. You know, they had one route. They ran a,

sorry, the barrening our Thursday show and this is the all pro show, but they ran like a Colorado route, which is like a fake slant return route in the red zone. Had a little issues getting out of it. He's a big body, but everything else, great.

But that was the one. I was like, they're dialing up stuff for him. But that, that speaks to him. He understood. He's playing him and giving him reps and they know how to dial him up. No.

So that's another good example. Again, don't fight against something. If that guy you signed in November is now the best receiver on your team, lean into it. Build round holes. Build round holes. You know,

or build square holes for your square pegs. Like that, that's what he does. All right. Last one here. MVP. Yeah, well, I've spoiled this probably about 12 times on other shows.

But going with my bizarre, my preseason pick, my pick that has not wavered this entire year, maybe a little bit at one time, one week there was. But I'm going with Patrick Mahomes for my MVP, my first team all pro as well. We gushed about them on that show. Every metric you look at, every eye test, of course, the highlight plays. Most total yards by QB ever in a season. Over 40 touchdowns. Over 5,000 passing yards in 16 games.

fourth most passing first downs on the season ever seventh most if you just go 16 games QBR of 77 EPA for dropback anything you look at football outsiders

DYAR DVOA passing success rate everything scrambling just a phenomenal year from him I think I said

in the preseason pick show that he will be on a war path this year and it felt like that that offense was on a war path I think he is

the best player in the game one of the best players I've ever seen, one of the best players of all time, and this was his year. Apologies to others. Josh Allen was my second pick, and then Jalen Hertz, Joe Burrow was kind of tied for third for me because I'm a coward and they don't want to rank one over the other. But those guys had all wonderful years in different ways, but I thought Mahomes this entire year never let up.

He never had that one game, even though people wanted to make up maybe that Broncos game at three interceptions. He was still phenomenal in that game, you know, stuff like that. He's fantastic. He's the MVP. Yeah. preseason pick and now postseason pick. So many of the stats are just wild.

The one we talked about today when you and I were talking, we're just discussing that to be a great offense, it's about getting first downs on first and second down. You don't even want to get to third down. So I looked up who had the most first downs on first and second down this season in the NFL? The Chiefs led the league with 277. The Vikings were second with 244. That gap between the Chiefs and the Vikings is,

bigger than the gap between the Vikings and the bucks. The bucks ranked 18th. That's insane. One and two is the difference between two and 18 in that stat specifically. And they were second in the league and third down conversion rate. Yep. So they're moving the chains effortlessly on early downs. And he can pull a rabbit out of his hat on any single third down that you want him to.

10.8% of his pressures turned into sacks this year. that was the lowest rate in the entire NFL. He had the third lowest sack rate in the league, other than Tom Brady and Jared Gough. Tom Brady's dirt and throws left and right to not get hit this entire season. And Jared Gough played really well, but Jared Gough is not to be holding on to the ball. Mahomes among full-time quarterbacks,

so guys that play 50% of their team snaps, there were 24 of them. He had the eighth highest time to throw in the league and had the third lowest sack rate. That shouldn't be possible. And that is, that is who he is. He is contrasting ideas that can exist at the same time, all of the time. And that's why he's so special.

And I've talked about this before this year. I'm so guilty of this all the time where I just want the new shiny thing to be exciting because I get bored. And that's how I've wanted to be with some of the quarterbacks. And I think a lot of us thrust guys into that top tier before they were probably ready to go into that top tier. and I think what I've realized by the end of this year and what I'm more than willing to come to terms with is that Mahomes is in his own tier. He is in his own tier of quarterbacks and players in the NFL.

He is the best player in football. What he can do for your team on any given play, on any given series, in any given game is different than what everybody else can do because the high level stuff is unbelievable. He's still ranked up near the top of the league and big time throws and big time throw percentage, the stuff he can do improvisationally

and off schedule, but there are no negative plays. That's it. He was in the bottom five and turnover worthy play rate. He was in the bottom five. He doesn't get sacked. What he can do, those two contrasting things that can exist at once, there's no one like that. Josh Allen is further in each direction.

You know, there are more negative plays. Mahomes just doesn't have that bottom to his game while having the top. And there's no one like that. And to be able to do it outside of structure, inside of structure, he's probably the best quarterback I've ever seen. And he played this year like that guy. And there's really not a discussion. Like, there are really good seasons by Josh Allen and Joe Burrow and Jalen Hertz.

Those are the guys that I would put right after that. But it was a special season from an all-time great player. And now we're going to start having a conversation about all-time hierarchy and pecking order. And you went to MVP's in your first five years and you play the way that he has and what he's done. And it's not too early to start having discussions about peaks, you know, five year peaks and five year stretches and stuff like that.

Obviously what Tom Brady has accomplished over his careers, it's something that takes 20 years to accomplish. And that's a discussion for a later day. But who those guys have been for extended stretches at their best, what he's doing right now ranks up there with anybody all time ever. Absolutely. I'm with an AFC championship games that they made up where they make it to the final fourth.

So it's not just empty calorie stats that he's accumulating. He's incredible. And team success driven by quarterback quality, right? Tom Brady made how many AFC championship games and how many playoff runs. But Mike Sando did a fantastic job of doing this project where how much help are you getting from your defense and your special teams? Right. No one got more help from his defense and his special teams over the last 20 years than

Tom Brady did. Tom Brady is great, but that team was incredible. Mahomes is doing this with middling to bad defense. defenses every single year. Think about the defense last year. That is important to point out. Yeah. No, he lets everybody else figure themselves out.

It's, it's unbelievable. You're saying it right now, and that's, that's, it's, it's so hard for me because I watched, you know, Brett Farv growing up and then Peyton, you know, seeing Tom Brady and everything. And it's just the control, those guys, well, Farv was just chaotic, but Peyton and Tom Brady were so in control of everything, and Drew Burris, you know, these guys were in so control, but that was just throwing the ball. Mahomes, watch those game winning drives with Mahomes. It's he'll throw a sail route within an inch that shouldn't get it completed.

He'll improv a play. And then the team plays, the defense plays two man. And that's the thing with Mahomes. Does the improv stuff. He is so freaking smart that he'll recognize that coverage and go, I'm about to scramble. Just I'm going to let his defenders get deep. Okay, I'm time to scramble. It's a control.

It's just his own way of doing it. And he knows how to turn those knobs. I'm going to knife you from the pocket. And I'm just going to hit you for six yard gains. Oh, it's third nine. Well, here comes a deep ball, but I'm going to put it right on the money and avoid a sack or backpedal. Watch them against the Bengals, even though it's funny, they lost that game. And people are like, wow, they really limit.

Mahomes was still freaking awesome in that game. They're bringing cover zeros and he knows it's cover zero. He knows where he's going. He's backpedaling with pass rushers coming at him and launching it and put it on the money to MVS. It's that all that stuff combined, the knobs, the he can crank up the improv or he can crank up in the pocket. the intelligence, the arm angles. He has everything. He has more answers than any quarterback I've ever seen.

I think that's the way that I would frame it. His toolbox is that he can provide more answers to any question. To any problem you presents him, he has an answer. He was third in the NFL this season and EPA generated on scrambles. The only guys ahead of him were Josh Allen and Jalen Hertz. And that's when you picture Josh Allen. It's like, oh, okay. But the fact that Mahomes is right, near him is ridiculous.

There were only two guys. We said this on the All-Pro show. Two guys in the NFL had more EPA on scrambles than they took on sacks. Josh Allen was one and Patrick Mahomes was the other. And that speaks to the no negatives. And think about how many turnover worthy plays and how many turnovers had this year. And I contrast that with what Mahomes did.

It's just he's on a different level. He's in his own stratosphere. And this is one of his like, this is a statement season from him. Yes. That's a way for him. Warpath. Yeah. What you said when you were tearing it, he is in his own team.

tier. And I agree with that. We have grouped in other guys. I was guilty of this this is preseason going like, oh, these guys are in the elite tier. It's this guy, this guy, this guy, you know. And no, it's Mahomes, pause, and then the next tier. So it's like the elite tier and then it's the Mahomes tier. And that's where he's at right now. And that's how he should be acknowledged. He's special. We talked a lot about Josh Allen on the All-Pro show and about why he was second team All-Pro. I do want to talk about Joe Burrow and Jaywin Hertz a little bit before we get out of here. Yeah. Joe Burrow is a special, special quarterback. Like that guy, is going to be in these discussions as we get bored of Mahomes from year to year,

every single season to be one of the best quarterbacks in the league. I talk about extinguishing those negative plays. Even during a year where he was awesome last season, Joe Broe took so many sacks. He took so many sacks, right? From week five on when the Bengals changed the structure of their offense after the disaster first month that they had, him getting sacked, he had the ninth best sack rate of any starting quarterback in the NFL. Yeah.

5.3% of his dropbacks. So that part of his game has been, he's thrown it out the window. So that was the only thing left. He dropped a 2.5% from last year to this year. That was the only thing left was, is he taking too many sacks? Now the positives are there. The negatives are becoming fewer and further between the way that he plays the position, the total control that he has, the way he plays on time, the escapeability, how he sees things.

I am so much bigger of a fan of Joe Burrow at the end of this season than I even was at the end of last season. And I truly, I'm in, I'm like all like the swaggy bullshit and like how much that matters. Like hook line and sinker. You got me. Like I think it does matter. And I think that the way he plays and the way he carries himself, the entire package that is Joe Burrow, I am so far in right now compared to even where I was at the end of last year. It was my second team, all pro quarterback. Like that guy is going to be in the league for 15 years.

He's going to be, he's a potential Hall of Fame player. And I'm so, so impressed by him. And I think it's worth acknowledging the season that he had. He was really, really good. And Jaywin Hertz was, Jaywin Hertz had such a great year. And how central Jalen Hertz is to who the Eagles are, that's important for, that. That's what I want to acknowledge. Like, yes, he's somewhat of a product of the talent around him, but the offense is a product of him.

His ability to be that skeleton key player where we can run it, we can throw it, we can beat you in any way. The answers that the Eagles have and the flexibility that the Eagles have is in part provided by the player that J-1 Hertz is. And I think that's important. It's hard to untangle all that stuff sometimes, but I think it's worth acknowledging that. And he's improved. Yes. The improvement is remarkable. Remarkable, especially throwing over the middle and anticipating and all that.

And that's where with Hertz, too, is, is, yes, he benefits from the situation and everything. And what you're saying, though, is like, he is, it's just because the offense coordinator did a good job of designing the offense, he shouldn't get dinged for it. They designed that offense that way to make, because they go, Hertz is really good at this shit. But he's really good at throwing deep. He's really good at running the ball. What's lean into it? He's making decisions and all that. So he shouldn't get dinged for that.

No, I am glad you brought the Joe Barrow. I had the couple of stats. The two that were notable. You already brought up the one to sack percentage. The one for me was passing success rate, which is him just having those efficient plays, which is just so funny for such a cerebral quarterback to be like, be more of a quarterback. We keep laughing about this and talking about this. It's real.

It's tangible watching him play, but also just in the metrics. It went from, he's six this year, but it almost improved three percent, which is notable. That's a lot of plays, guys, that he's just finding that efficiency. I agree with you. Watching him, that's why I was a little worried with him last year. Not worried. He was so great last year. But with Burrow was so much was on the go balls or him creating and running around and finding the throws, which is great that he can do that stuff.

But that's what I was like, is this always going to be sustainable. But what he showed this year is that even though he was a high floor player, that floor is even higher than I realize as a player. Absolutely. That's what it is. I knew he would be that good tier, that floor would always be there. But man, it's great. it's really up there that floor. And yeah, I'm with you.

Burrow had a tremendous year. And of course, Josh Allen had high on the metrics. What he does for that team, we talk about value. What he brings to that team, he is the team. I mean, the defense is really good. He is that offense for better or for worse. You know, it comes and goes with how he plays. But that's the top four for me.

But yeah, I'm glad you got to praise Burrow because how he's been playing is. It's fun. It really is. It's really fun to watch a guy play quarterback in that way. 2.37 seconds average time to throw. It's the second fastest in the league only Brady, which we acknowledged why was faster than him this year. And that's not the most important thing,

but it's not to watch the tape align. Yes. And it's cool to watch the tape align with the style. Or with the numbers, where you watch them, it's like the decisions feel like they're coming real fast. And then you look at the numbers, it's like, ooh, the decisions are coming real fast.

That's why sometimes people listening to this is that why we bring up those stats is because sometimes we can say all these, you know, anecdotes and what we watch and everything. Sometimes it's nice to have a metric go like, hey, what we're seeing is this. And that shows right then and there. All right. That's all. Those are our awards for the year.

Yeah. I can't believe that I pick Chris Jones over Nick Bosa for defensive player. I can't either at the last second. Hopefully you have a ticket on them. I did. I did. I have preseason awards. We did pretty good.

The satisfaction. action of I so I assume that Bosa will win I assume Jefferson win I assume sauce will win so our preseason picks I had I think Justin Herbert was my MVP yes but um I I was between Justin Herbert and Josh Allen I like whatever I Josh Allen was kind of my pick for MVP how you presented it was was you were building a store you're building the narrative of the season I was bored and I that's why that's why I said Justin Herbert it was so this is true I I I mean my buddy sent predictions back and forth every single year on the evening of the season. One of my good friends.

Oh, my friend Ryan, who you've met. And in that email, I picked Josh Al, like our private email chain. It's on record if people want to see it. So Josh Al and Justin Herbert or whatever. My offense player of the year was Justin Jefferson, who is probably going to win. My defensive player of the year was Nick Bost, who was probably going to win. My offensive rookie of the year was Drake London. So Drake London was good.

He's not going to win. My defensive rookie of the year was Sauce Gardner, who is going to win. I picked Kevin O'Connell to win coach of the year, which was looking good. for a while. Based on how coach of the year typically works, where you're a team that didn't make the playoffs and then you're really good, the market has started to outsmart that. So,

but Kevin O'Connell, I think, is, the Vikings made the playoffs in the way we would have gone to. Five years ago, we would have nailed that one. Yes, I know.

And then I, and I picked Howie to win executive at the year. Yeah. And so I think for the most part, I feel pretty good about my hit rate. Yeah. I had MVP Mahomes. I had offense player year,

Jefferson. I was kind of like drag kicking and screaming for that one, because I wanted some smart pick. I think I went with Dak as my like long shot pick because I was like, it might be a quarterback year. Defense player year, I had Parsons, but Bosa totally understand. Had a lavee as my rookie to the year, offense rookie the year. I had, I think I had Stingley as my defensive rookie year, I believe.

Coach of the year also had O'Connell. I can't believe that one. I think coach of the year was the funny one because our dark horse was the same as well. We both had Dennis Allen as our dark horse, which, and then I, yeah, I can't tell you. And then, yeah, I like that. We did, the show did pretty good with our picks, you know, some of them were chalk, but, you know, Patrick Mahomes wasn't.

He wasn't, he wasn't chalk, you know. And Bosa wasn't, I don't think. I think he was like third or fourth. No, no, Balser was higher than him. Parsons was higher than him. I think offense player of the year. I don't even think Jefferson was the favorite coming in the year. He was up there, but so I feel, feel okay about it.

Good job. Feel okay about those books. Good job, Robert. Yeah. I think I got six of the seven AFC playoff teams, right? I think the Jags are the only one I didn't get. But we did say, hey, that might be a tasty pick if you're looking so. I wish I had more courage back then.

I did too. But NFC, I got the NFC I didn't get. We had the Packers. And then I had the Rams. So I think those are the two that I missed in the NFC. Well, and then, yeah, yeah, like I picked the Eagles to win the NFC East. I did not say the Cowboys were going to make the playoffs. Of all of my preseason predictions, that is the one I fucked up the most is that I thought the bottom might come out on the Cowboys.

I did not anticipate their defense being able to sustain this without the turnover rate. I saw one year of Dan Quinn. I was like, all right, what are they going to be again this year? It was so much better than I anticipated. And what the offense was with the changing personnel, with the lack of receiving talent outside of CD, with some of the questions about the offensive line. They overcame so many things this year. And I'm impressed with Mike McCarthy, with Kellyn Moore, with Dak. I just did not give enough respect to every.

element of who the Dallas Cowboys were. That's the prediction I feel the worst about before the season. I was optimistic about them and I thought it would be a frustrating 10 and seven year for them, like kind of like one of those types of years where it's like, yeah, they're good, but they're going to lose in the first round. But no, I really like what the Cowboys have done this year. It's been a lot of fun to watch that team. Also, I just quick rant to end the show. So the coach of the year, you talk about how the market has gotten smarter and, you know, people are figuring this stuff out. So some of the arguments against like Olive winning offensive rookie the year is those stats that we brought up yards per route run first downs per route stuff like that they i've seen

on twitter and i know twitter isn't real life but i've seen on twitter is what people go on well voters don't look at that well i'm going to rant real quick they fucking should if you're going to be voting on these awards look at this stuff i'm sorry i don't know i do think it's starting to change it should it really should they're available they're getting really good we're figuring out which ones have a lot of weight or potentially do um so sorry but that's just my quick little sentence there is they should. If you're going to be voting on these awards that actually matter because contracts and everything, like, yeah, but, but, you know, put a little homework into it, even if it's a day. You know, I know we, me and you love this stuff and we're looking at true media and until we're, I don't know, maybe we should have votes.

Oh, that would be fun. I would like that. I'd like that. Whoever wants to listen to this is telling us out. We did an hour long conversation about the offense and the defense for every single position where I hope the amount of work we put into it shines through. So if you are a decider on who gets an AP vote, I don't know. I'll take one. Maybe we're decent candidates considering that.

Oh, I'd love to amend the all pro teams. So it's making three teams. There's 32 teams out there. So let's make it three teams. Let's get a slot position. Let's clean this thing up. Doesn't that a third team all MBA? Yeah.

For years. I know. And that's five starters on 30 teams. So we got 32 teams. Yeah, we can easily do this. No. No, I, I've always had stuff against the all pro. So I've got to get to, like, vocalize it even if I don't officially vote on it.

I'm happy to have giving you an outlet for your frustration. Thank you. That's what this show is for. Yes, it is. That's all we got. That's it. This is coming out on Wednesday. So it just a heads up, Prospects of Pros, which typically comes out on Wednesday afternoon, is going to be released on Thursday afternoon this week.

So if you're looking for Prospects of Pros later today or you're wondering, where is it? It is coming a little bit later. So do not worry. Football GM still coming your way Thursday morning. we are going to have two divisional round previews this week. Same as we did last week. We're going to have it Saturday and a Sunday. So those are going to be coming your way at the same time overnight into Friday.

No Monday games. So please be on the lookout for those. No Monday game. And same deal as last week. We had live reactions on Saturday and Sunday night on YouTube to the games. We're doing it again. So if you guys want to come hang out with us after the games on Saturday night and Sunday night, we'll be here talking about football because I live in this change.

now. So please come hang out with me. Really appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.