The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The 2023 WR draft class with Dane Brugler + Nate Tice

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

Who better to have on The Athletic Football Show on the release date of The Beast than the author of The Beast himself?! Dane Brugler joins Robert Mays and Nate Tice to break down this year's wide receiver class on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube3:07 The top-50 player who concerns you19:32 Re-examining physical benchmarks at the position29:30 The guy who will be a starter for 10+ years38:12 The non-top-50 player who will be a starter44:31 The player you're most under consensus on51:03 The player you're most over consensus on56:50 The day three guy you believe in63:45 Jordan Addison Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. To The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. One of my favorite kinds of shows to do, which is a show where I just get to ask questions to people who know more than me about a certain subject. So I'm very excited to do that with the wide receivers in this year's draft today. Two people joining me.

First of all, our draft guru at The Athletic. This is our first three-man pod of the draft season because we're like semi-post-bose. East, I think. It's Dan Bruegler. Dan, how you doing, man? Yeah, we're, we're like at the two-yard line. There you go. There you go. That's why I said semi-post. Yeah, yeah. I have not slept yet. So this will be, this will be an interesting conversation if I trail off, forgive me. But yeah, yeah, we're close. And so this will be fun. Their phrase is always, so-and-so can do this in their sleep. We're actually going to figure out if you can talk about the receivers in this draft in your sleep. We'll test that theory. Yeah. Also joining us today, my good friend, Nate Tice. Nate, how you know, buddy? Doing well. I love the three man

weaves, the, the, the, I also as someone that trails off and rambles on thoughts, I feel right at home, Dane. It'll be, you'll, Robert's going to just have to, he's going to have to filter both of us then. This is just going to be a perfect show for him, but very, very excited for this, very excited to dive into these receiver class. Rather than talk about every guy, we wanted to break this up into categories, just kind of putting different players in buckets. So I'm going to give you guys some prompts associated with this draft class, different sort of awards, superlatives, however we want to describe it. Because I am a coward. I am not going to give my answers to any of these. I'm going to let you guys carry this. And I'm hoping that as we

talk about some of these specific guys, it takes us into a territory where we're having some bigger picture conversations about the position at large, because I think this class specifically really is going to take us into some of that territory. So I'm excited for that. But let's get to the categories. And I want to start it off because this class seems like one where even the guys at the top of it, there are some question marks that come with every single one of them. So, Dana, I wanted to ask you this first off. Who is the consensus top 50 pick? According to your board, and it's even the athletic big board in general, that you're just the most worried about. The guy that you're just like, I just don't know about this player.

I think Edlin, Quentin Johnston here, TCU, Reiter receiver. There's a lot to like about him. If you're going to bet on the traits, he's 6-3, 210 pounds. He has some really appealing parts of his game athletically. At the combine, he jumped. He didn't do anything else. He just jumped. And he knew what he was doing. He knew he was going to test well. 40 and a half in the vert, 11-2 in the broad. And then at his pro day, ran 451, which isn't terrible, but we expected four-fours. And then the three cone was 7-3-1. which is not good, not good at all. It's about the bottom 5% for wide receivers.

Cody Mock, our North Dakota State offensive lineman, was a 712, and Quentin Johnson was a 731, just for comparison purposes. Eddressress, you're looking at sub-7-2, so that's kind of the threshold. And I don't want this to turn into like a D.K. Metcalf conversation. Yeah, that's the first place your mind goes, right? Right. Right. But, you know, they're different as receivers, but with, with,

Quentin Johnson and just focusing on the tape. And this is true going into the testing part of the process. He's a guy that doesn't consistently separate on his own. You know, he's big, he's athletic, you love the stride length. He can make that first guy miss. He tracks the ball really well, but there's too many drops. He doesn't create a ton of separation at the top of the route. So, you know, there's several things about his game that you like,

but then also several things that are just instrumental. to playing the position at a high level that he doesn't do on a consistent basis. And, you know, the Big 12 not producing receivers, that's part of the conversation. I don't want to, you know, lean too much into that because I, you don't helmet scout, you don't conference scout, but you also don't ignore that. So, you know, it's, it's, it's just part of the conversation. So with Quentin Johnston, he is a really talented player that is, doesn't have a, a clear path that you say, okay, he's, he's going to be this is a rookie, this and

or two. Like there's, there's some development needed and there's some concern there. How do you feel about Quentin Johnson? Do you agree with a lot of those concerns, Nate? Yeah,

I do. During the season, I was like, oh, this guy's my receiver. One big, look at them, move, all this. And he kind of has,

you are a parody of yourself. Having said that, I agree with a lot with Dana is saying he is such a unique prospect. I even struggle with any comparisons I have for him. Yeah. Like, it's just his place,

he's a big finesse receiver, but doesn't do, the finesse stuff. Like, he's not skilled. And I struggle with that. But I do, he's going to be my answer for a different question that, uh, that near the end, more near the end of the show. But it is, I do agree with what Dane is saying.

It's like there are so many traits that you love. Like you see the yards after catch that he can create. But then he, oh, okay, his hand eye is good. But the thing is he doesn't ever extend for a throw. Like he bodies a lot of throw. So it's just this weird, you know, body type with play style differences with him. So he's going to be my answer later for a different question where I maybe speak about a little more positively. But I do agree with a lot of concerns with Dane that this guy during the season, I was like, oh, receiver one, receiver one.

And now he's dropped a little bit for me even as a size speed truther that that's how concerning is some of those negatives that Dane brought up. This is one of those where coming to the process as late as I do, you have an idea of what this guy will be where he's 6-3. He's the kind of prototypical outside receiver compared to a lot of these guys that are a little bit. smaller. So I turned down the tape and I watched the Michigan game first. And he had a ton of production in the Michigan game. But after watching that game, I was like, I'm out. Like, even with all that production, like it comes in weird ways. He takes a couple balls like the shell across. He takes it forever. But I watching that game, I'm like, if that's what this guy is every single week, I don't know how I feel about this. And, Dane, this may sound crazy. But in the Georgia game, he had one catch.

I was more impressed with him in the Georgia game than I was with what he did in the Michigan game, even though he had one catch for three yards. After watching that game, I was like, okay, I can get on board with some of the stuff that he's doing against Ringo. He was open three or four times and Doug in his under duress. They have no shot on offense and he just doesn't find him. So it's very funny that he had one catch for three yards in the national championship game. And that's the game where I came away more impressed than the huge game he had against Michigan. Yeah, and you mentioned it, but that Michigan game, that catch and run was the bulk of his production in that one.

He's quiet. And that's what he can do. He can make that first guy miss. It's something for a bigger guy, he does it pretty well. And that's what's so weird about him because you think he's this big body guy and you're going to see that type of profile. And then you watch him. And the yak stuff may be the most attractive part of his game.

So I was looking at some of the numbers on PFF. There were 140 players in FBS last season who got at least 75 targets. He was 108 in contested catch rate among those 140 players despite the frame. He was third in Yakper reception. Yeah. It's a weird. And I think, yeah, if you condense it even more to like, you know, 50% of targets, I think he was second. Yeah.

So, like, he's, he, it was like 8.9. Yeah. Some like that. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Like, it's for a guy that big. And in that three come, too, like, he's not a guy that has wiggle.

You know, he's not necessarily shifty. But he does know how to sidestep. He has really good instincts for. or, you know, put the ball away and then understanding his surroundings and then making something happen and utilizing those different angles. So, yeah, he's a guy that's really unique in what he offers. Like, there's not a really great comparison that, yeah, like Nate, like you said, like that you could instantly come up with.

And that's part of why, you know, he worries me. I still like him as a top 50 guy. Yeah. But he does give me a little bit of pause, a little bit of worry there. He's a big body underneath receiver. Yeah. Which is so, you get him out. you have to get him on the move, which is not, if I get a big receiver, I want to body him up

and post him up on the outside. He's a guy that you want on the move. He's, I'm not comparing, this is not a one-to-one comparison, but more like Michael Pittman in the sense where he's a big body guy that you want him running. You want him using that big body and athletic traits to get moving. But Pittman's a like totally, it's a little different than that, but just saying that type of play style a little bit. I have a question about a comp, and I want to see what you think about this day,

because you've watched these guys and have way more of a sense of what they were as prospects. But in terms of the speed, the jumps being very good, and him being more of a yak merchant in college than really anything else, how does his profile compare to a guy like Brandon Ayuk when he was coming out of Colorado? Okay. Interesting. I mean, because Iyuk, he was so long that even though he wasn't the tallest receiver, he was because he was so long. And I mean, his big game, the thing about his game was yak. And so that, and that's the whole reason he went in the first round. Slants and glances. Exactly.

All day. And so I can understand why you, you know, come to that conclusion because that's, that's the strength of Quentin Johnson is, get the ball in his hands, whether, you know, he loves to run curls. But, you know, let him run some slants. Let him get those crossers. Let him give him a little bit of a runway. So I could see why you would have come up with that name.

They both had ran their 40 inch vertical for both of them. 128 for Iyuk and the broad 134 for Quentin Johnson. Quinn Johnson is 33 and 5 eighths inch arms. Brandon and Iyke was at 33 and a half, and they both ran 4-5 in the 40. Right. That makes sense. I mean, I think that...

And a little loose on the route running. Yeah. And but Brandon and Iook has gotten much better at that. Much better. So that's... Perfect lighting spot. That was my first thought when I watched him, and I did not plan on having Brandon I, you come into my head when we were talking

about a 6-3 receiver. That's not... That's as good as I've heard. Yeah, I know. If we're naming the top three concerns for Quentin Johnston, the drops are on there. Yeah, yeah. And that's one of those things where, you know, he needs to get better. He had more drops than touchdown catches this year.

You know, it's something that he needs to get better at. And I think part of it is, you know, because he does want to create after the catch that he will, you know, either let the ball into his body because he's looking, you know, just let it get it to me and then I'm going to run and things like that. So he does need to get better as a finisher. But no, I like that comparison. That's as good as I've heard. Yeah, I agree. He's always looking, right? Right before the ball gets there, he always glances to look around, which what you

makes a lot of guys miss because of that. He does. Exactly. For, I mean, the Kansas game he had one of those, several different games where it reminds me to play weirdly De Niro Alexander made in college against Kansas State. I don't know why that sticks out to me, but it was a game I was a game I was covering where he just kind of turned on a dime and he was six five. So watching Quinn Johnson at 6'3 do some of that stuff, I was been.

impressed by that, even though the change of direction numbers are awful. All right, Nate, who's your guy for this? Man, I've gone back for it. I got two names. Top 50 player you are the most worried about. As we revisit, we talked for 10 minutes before getting yours. I know, that was great. No, I'm glad we got QJ all the way, too.

It's Jalen Hyatt for me from Tennessee. And this is, I appreciate some parts of his game. I appreciate the juice that he brings, the long speed, the kind of just smooth athlete. I do think he has good hands and ball eye skills, you know, like, being able to track the ball over his shoulder and adjust and all those. 176 pounds, though. I see the comparisons to Will Fuller that people have thrown around. I thought Will Fuller at Notre Dame was so much more explosive with the ball in his hands,

was able to be more creative with the ball in his hands and played bigger. I think Hyatt plays to his size and as far as frame, he is a little taller. But I just think this is a straight line burner with good hands that it's kind of gotten overrated because of his production. I feel like this is a guy that maybe just the replacement level for this type of player is higher where you can find them in the middle rounds as opposed to someone that you have to sacrifice a top 40 pick on or a 45 pick on. Again, this is what's always tough, especially when you're watching the Tennessee offense or any offense that's like this.

A lot of college offenses, it's does you have the potential for route running? Because even if they only show that they run three routes, you know, with high, it was a lot of slot fades, a lot of seams, you know, straight down. go. Fades from outside the numbers. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Slot fades where he'd be on the outside of the pros. And so that's where I don't want to damn him to say like, oh, he'll never be a good route

runner. It's just that he hasn't had the opportunity to show it. But the fact that he needed to be in the slot so much. And again, that's part of the offense. But press, he has issues with any physical defenders, even when he got collision at the second level. I did think his balance was okay, but he just doesn't have that strength. He's just naturally not a strong-bodied guy.

I do think he's useful. I just hesitate where he's. he's being kind of slotted at at this point in time. So that's where my worries are is that I think he'll be a fine player, but I think people are expecting more out of him and what the growth is. But I'm like, this is kind of what I think he's going to be. He's a vertical burner with good hand eye. But if you're asking for anything more from him, it's a little iffy.

Because I just think even underneath to create yards after the catch, I just don't see that creativity. He's a splitter. You know, he gets the ball and gets north, which isn't bad. But at that tiny of size, that means he's going down right away in the NFL. Like he gets hit, he's going down. he's going down. So that's where my concerns kind of lay with him.

That Tennessee offense is an extension of what Baylor used to do. And so you have this offense where it's super, super wide splits. So even if you're the slot receiver, you're further outside than most outside receivers are going to be. So you see him catching a lot of his long touchdowns outside the numbers, but it starts from an off-the-line alignment where he doesn't have to do with any physicality. And he's got free releases. He's running right by people. So, Dane, my question for you is, how do you even do this? when you're watching this guy and this sort of offense and you're trying to compare what he does

to what a true outside receiver working against a ton of press coverage does. I mean, how do you project somebody who had this specific of a role and this specific of an offense to an NFL role when we're considering him as a top 25 pick? And we've never seen, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but we've never seen a wide receiver from that Arp. Brown's offense really make it at the NFL level. It's Cory Coleman Horror Stories. Right.

That's number one. Yep. And so, you know, that obviously is part of this conversation that is going to be working against Jail and Hyatt. And so it's a lot of projection involved with him. And I think that for me, I'm putting together my final top 100 for the draft guide right now. He came in right around like 30 for me. And the big reason why I'm optimistic about him is because I think he's exceptional in two areas. And Nate touched on this, the vertical speed and the ball skills.

I think he's, you know, his ability to, even with these deep passes, he's catching the ball away from his body. Yeah, all the time. Oh, he plucks it. Yep. Very, very confident with his ball skills. And so when you have those two things, you know, you could be a weapon. And so I don't, and maybe, okay, Nate, how would you compare him to Christian Watson, it's a little bigger? but raw route runner vertical speed you know like do you think there's some similarities there

between those two players as a receiver yes as far as like what their the routes strengths are and all that but like as far as like playmaking and ball in the hands like it's Watson just no that's actually not a terrible comparison he out weighs my 35 pounds I was just say Watson so big that he gets the ball and that's how he's able to split and that that's that's where the concern is as as soon as he catches the ball, because he's not going to be able to just take the top. You're not spending a top 35 pick on a guy. You could.

I mean, I'm not saying you can't, but just, hey, just go, you wouldn't do this, but I would not. But teams are,

would. But I just, it's my comfort level for him. It's like, once we're sitting back half of the second round, okay, all right, now we can start talking about him,

but it's like really in that, and I know I'm splitting hairs here with this, but this is kind of how this receiving class is, is that I just think that as soon as that ball, is in his hands, I just don't see the potential there. And I'm not saying that there's never going to, there's going to be a use for him. Like he's going to stick just because of that,

what we're talking about, the hand eye and just be able to take the top off the defense. It's just like, what else you got? And that's where my concerns come from is that any underneath stuff, I'd be a little worried about targeting him because I could just see him trying to run mesh on a crosser and he just gets blown the F up as he's trying to get yards with,

with a ball in his hands. Well, he's a very specific role player. I mean, in terms of what he offers. And so that's where the challenges are from from our point of view doing this on the outside. You know, we're not scouting for a specific scheme or, you know. Love him with the Chargers. Like, you would be amazing. I couldn't stop thinking about it.

Exactly. I just couldn't stop thinking about it. Yeah. So, and that's, exactly. So it's a tough conversation when, you know, it's, he's going to be a specific role. And he'll be a top 50 guy for one team and not even on the board for another team. because he just won't fit what they do. Right.

So, you know, I think that, but, you know, and he has that go and get it gear. And that's what I love about his game. You know, he led college football in receptions of 30 plus yards, 40 plus yards, 50 plus yards. And this guy just all over his tape is just these big plays down the field. And a lot of it is no one's touching him. I mean, he's just running faster than everybody else.

And so can that translate and how much can it translate? And that, it goes into. do a bigger conversation about, you know, just these different sizes and skillsets of receivers these days and how are we changing and evolving because I'm looking at my top, what, seven receivers, four of them are under 180 pounds. It's, it's, all right. Are we ready to do it? Let's do it.

Oh, yeah. Okay. So here is one of the conversations I wanted to have. As you think about that, Dane, have we gotten to a place where we're going to have to rewire the way that we think about benchmarks for receiver size? I think so. I mean, and I think that,

like I said, okay, so seven or four of my top, over half of my top seven receivers are under 180 pounds. I think, you know, even going back to last year, Garrett Wilson,

Jameson, Alave, John Dodson. So first, four of the first five receivers, we're all under 180 pounds. So, you know,

I think that we've been kind of, teams have been more and more comfortable leaning this way. And it's not like, there's never been an undersized receiver drafted high before. I mean, you know, Tavon Austin and, you know, we obviously seen it. But I think teams are becoming more and more comfortable drafting these maybe, and I don't want to limit it to just undersized, but unique body types. And I think, you know, going back to, what was it, 2019 drafts, I think this was a little bit of a turning point. And this was the A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalfe.

Samuel. Like I think a lot of, and the only receiver to go in the first round that year, I believe, is Hollywood Brown. And I think a lot of teams were just perplexed with, okay, what do we do with these different skill sets, these unique guys? And so a lot of them said, eh, we'll wait and wait until the second round. Maybe we'll get one there. And only one or two receivers drafted in the first round that year.

And that's how an AJ Brown fell to the second or a D.K. Metcalfe or a Debo Samuel and these guys. So I think that was a little bit of a turning point where after that draft is like, okay, we have to be really more accepting to these different types of receivers and what they offer, how they can benefit us. And I think we've seen that the last two, three years with the guys that have gone in the first round. So where's the line, though? Because I think, because when I was doing this last year when we were talking about this kind of stuff, the guy that I kept coming back to in my mind, who was a little bit undersized but had a lot of success was Calvin Ridley.

So Calvin Ridley is a little bit smaller. Calvin Ridley weighed 189 at the combine. Jordan Addison weighs 171. Yeah. Like, where is the line? And I think Devante Smith is the guy who you would hold up as the example for somebody who can really thrive despite weighing being like a toothpick, right? He's able to do this. But he's so unique in that his abilities, but also the way he's skilled, but also he's skilled, but also he has a 65 percentile wing span.

There are specific aspects of who he is as a player that I think kind of allow him to transcend some of those size concerns in a way that I don't know how you guys feel about Jordan Addison. I'm sure we'll talk about him. Whereas a guy like Jordan Addison, can he do that in the same way that Devante Smith has been able to? I think in general, all positions, and this just more anecdotally, everyone's become more comfortable, smaller guys. I would say just look at linebackers. I mean, how many 228, 234 pound linebackers there are now, it just feels like every team. got them as opposed to just one or two. You know, I just maybe just have the 49ers burn into my brain because their linebackers are so good. But just teams are become more tolerable for smaller body types. And I mean, Dan, I mean, Robert, too, is that when you used to see a small receiver, you used to see Tavon Austin, that's the one I'm going to picture in my head.

What's the typical thing that would follow up with? Oh, he's a gadget guy. Yeah. And now these guys are actually in college because they're able, because of the offenses and everything, are able to be used in different ways with the RPO game, just to spread out offenses. They're actually useful outside of just a, oh, give him three to five touches and use him as a gadget guy. But the Devante Smith discussion is, that's, because he was my receiver one in that class, and it was a talented class. It was, he was so, he was the outlier to me because

he was just so incredibly skilled. His route running was great. No one could press him because it, not only because he was so, his contact balance was outstanding. And his, he had great hands and route running ability. He had no fat on his routes. He also was like a tough blocker. And that, stood out to me. I was like, all right, you're 170 pounds. You might not be able to do this in the NFL, but at least I like your mindset. So that's where it is becoming interesting that most of these guys, or there's more of these guys that are becoming more tolerable to play, not just the smattering of snaps that they used to get. Since 2002, there's been nine receivers that weighed 180 pounds or less, that 50 or more receiving guards a game played 12 or more games multiple times. Okay. And these guys are Manuel Sanders and Deshaun Jackson at the most. Then you got Devante Smith. Brian Hartline, Jameson Crowder, Hollywood Brown, John Brown, Steve Breston, and Cole Beasley. And why I want to bring those guys up, the two that had the most, were Manuel Sanders and Deshaun Jackson, Devante Smith is getting there, is, Manuel Sanders was so incredibly skilled with great route running. And it took him a wild.

He's really the best example. Yeah. And Deshaun Jackson's one of the best deep ball threats of all time. They had those traits that let them stand out. I think now it's becoming more of these guys are kind of like, they have to have those traits to make them stand out to make them live in the NFL at least. the only real guy that wasn't a speed merchant that was that small was Emmanuel Sanders. Everyone else that's been that small or a slot guy. It's been speed merchants or slot guys.

Being like a true, like can play all over the place. Receiver. Emmanuel Sanders is really the only example we have so far. And Devante Smith is the second one. I did it for height because I was curious about Zay Flowers being able to play outside. So over the past four seasons, since we've gotten slot target numbers for True Media, there have been two players that are 5-9 or shorter with 572 routes on the outside. The only two guys would be able to do that are Marquis Brown and Demir Bird.

The guys right below them on that list, all speed guys. Scotty Miller, Caliph, Raymond, Marquise Goodwin. If we expand it to 510, you get a few more guys. Tyler Lockett, Brandon Cooks, J-1 Waddle, Tyree Kill. But among those guys, the only guy to run not sub-4-4 is Tyler Lockett. Right. So it's a small band of outcomes for these guys. Yes. Right.

Compared to his A. Flowers who could go in the first round. And it's tough because obviously teams have to draft what the college game is giving them. Yeah. And like, okay, Nate, who's the best true, true X in this, in this draft? Like Cedric Tillman and maybe A.T. Perry. Like, and A.T. Perry is a borderline third rounder. Right. And I like Cedric Tillman a lot, but I don't think, I wouldn't call him a lot top 50.

pick. No. I'll be breaking about later. Don't you worry. I mean, good. He's a good player. I mean, he's definitely, you know, an important player in this receiving class.

But it's my point being, there's just not a lot of true X's that this draft is going to give us. And, you know, DeMonte Smith, he was, he was just the perfect Z. You know, the perfect flanker. Like, just plug him in. He was going to be perfect there. Now, okay, with these guys, part of it is projection because a lot of these guys don't face press.

And that's, and that's a. tough part of this is, you know, watching Jordan Addison or watching whoever you're watching trying to find those press. And, you know, it's one thing facing press and another facing the jam where guys are actually trying to get their hands on you. Some guys will get up there, but then they're bailing or, you know, good clarification though. That does matter. Exactly. No question about it. So, yeah, it's, and I think that it's important because you mentioned Emmanuel Sanders and how he can, you know, move around the formation. And that's an important part of this too is if and that gets into this slot only conversation which you know is something I'm sure

we're talking about here all right next one here who is the guy in this class dane that you feel like is going to be a starter for 10 years the one you think is safe the one that's all right right if i need to hit a solid double this is the guy I would feel good about it's jackson smith and jitliff oh state i think you know i read this this this question as safe and that to me that's Smith and Jigba, even though he did, and I'm talking about a guy that just missed all of this last year. Right. But the year before, he had better production than both Chris Oliva and Garrett Wilson. So, you know, this is a guy that is not a burner.

He ran a 452 at his pro day, which is even better, and I thought he would run. But his 10-yard was a 165, which is really, really bad. But, look, his, yeah, his short start. Very bad. Short shuttle and three cone were outstanding at the at the combine. So like this guy is a very, I want to talk about skilled, very skilled route runner. His stem work is outstanding. He understands. It's like a dance for him. You know, the pacing, the body language, the gear shift. I mean, he has just a really natural way about him of creating his own separation, you know, waiting for corners to settle their feet or declare. And then he's going to make his move. that blind spot, get open. You know, there's parts of his game that, I mean, he was really a slot, primarily out of the slot, and he faced a lot of, a lot of defenses that tried to play a lineback or a safety against him.

And, you know, he's just beating that 100% 100 times out of 100. So, you know, there are times on tape where it's like, okay, I mean, you know, that's a good play, but, you know, a lot of people could do that. So, but still, I think that he is just so skilled and athletic enough that if I had a bet on one of these receivers, you know, just being the most productive 10 years from now, I think I'm going with him. Same answer, Nate. Same answer.

Everything he, uh, Dane just said, uh, I'm a lower on, on his upside than maybe other people, but there's like, it's like he's, I watch him. It's like, this guy, no, is going to be so easily useful. Like, it's just there's no way this. And actually, I dinged him at first. I was like, oh, the guy's slot only. And I saw a smattering of snaps from 2021. I want to say it was against Maryland, um, that he was working from the outside, just a little

bit, a couple snaps, and he looked okay, where it was like he was beat the press. And I was like, okay, okay. So here's my question. Why? What is the main concern with the outside stuff? What is the onus for calling him a slot only player? He played 85% of his snaps in the slot during his final season in college. If you look at other guys drafted in the first round over the last like three years,

he would be a massive outlier. The only guy to play more than 60% that was a first round pick was Jalen Waddle. Everyone else were looking at 12, 17, 18, 25%. So he is on his own there. but when you think he's a slot only player, what are the factors that drive you think he only belongs in the slot? I think, well, just how does, like, balance and like how he runs. I mean, just how Dane said with that tenure and stuff, like he is,

his lack of long, long juice. Long juice would be my biggest concern with him. Gotcha. And maybe just his, because I don't want to ding him and say he's not physical because he's tough as all get out. He'll work over the middle and go up and snatch balls in a crowd. It's just that kind of maybe, uh, strength the body guys up and beat the consistent press that he'll face on it.

Not consistent press, but more physical outside corners. I do think there is some concerns that I have with that as far as just maybe stacking a corner. Like he beats a corner off the press. Can he has, does he have that juice to stack him? I just think he's more useful from the slot. I wouldn't want to move him down to the outside because I think he's so damn good. Actually, I think by like midline comparison for him is Brandon Stokely.

And I mean that as a compliment because, you know, Brandon Stokely with when he played with Peyton Manning. And that's kind of my high like kind of like mid tier comparison for him. But I mean that as a super, super compliment. I just think he's just a, I don't know. I just think he's just a usual player. If he gets with some guys I can work on the outside and just let him go to work. Like Dane said, his ability to stem and I like that comment, that line, there's times where say he's working against two men.

He's so QB friendly. He works downhill on his routes, which is such a, it sounds simple, but he does it over and over. if it's a broken play and he was working in the space, he finds that soft zone. This guy's going to be a zone killer in the NFL. And that's, I mean, it's all complimentary.

It's just that lack of long speed, that lack of long juice and maybe lack of overwhelming strength is why I have some concerns on the outside. I think it's important to differentiate for this conversation. There's a difference between being slot only and then best in the slot. Yes. So that's my question. That's my question.

And Nate, I think, I mean, you're calling him best in the slot, right? Yes. Right. And I think that's where, okay, like, CD Lamb, you know, like he runs most of his routes from the slot, but he's not a slot only. Garrett Wilson, same type of thing. Right.

I mean, I think we've, not we, but a lot of people have become very liberal with that slot only. Right. We know where A.J. Brown was slot only, just because that's what he did in college. Justin Jefferson was slot only. Right. Exactly. But with Smith and Jigby, I think he is.

best in the slot, give him space, let him, you know, the more space that he has, the more he can manipulate the defense. And so yeah, I don't have a great comp for him. I think my closest that I kind of liked with Christian Kirk, a guy who works a lot

out of a slot, but also, you know, outside from time to time. It's just that feel they have. Like, they just have that feel for route running. Yeah, I don't know how to describe it. Yeah, like Hunter Runfro. He's a slot only. I think if we're going to designate a guy for that category.

Randall Cobb with all those years in the Packers' offenses. I think he was, we'd be okay calling him a slot only. But yeah, there's a big difference. So teams on average in the NFL this season played 60% 11 personnel, that's 60% league-wide. But there is a bunch of teams that played it on at least 70% of their snaps. So seven teams played it on at least 70% of their snaps. 12 teams played it on at least two-thirds of their snaps. So there are plenty of situations in the NFL where he could play in the slot on a majority

if his plays, but as long as he can stay on the field in two wide receiver sets, then that doesn't give too much of a ding to his value. That's a big question for me. And, Nate, you mentioned Justin Jefferson. We saw Justin Jefferson at least play outside his second to last year in college. We've never seen him do it. Even this year, when those two monsters left, with Olavé and Wilson gone, I know Marvin Harrison is still there. But he's, yeah, the real monster is still there. Yes, yes. But even when those two guys, and let's say, could he play more outside without both of them there. He's still in the little bit of time we saw him this year was almost exclusively playing in the slot. So that's what's rare about it. Even the guys who've been

mostly slot players like a Justin Jefferson, his second to last year in school, he played outside. So we've never really seen Smith and Jigman do this. And I love how Dane differentiated though. Like yeah, what we're talking about slot only or best in the slot. Like Josh Downs from North Carolina, that's slot only to me. I can't see that guy ever making a living on the outside or even for a handful of snaps. But like that's the difference. I at least where we're talking about guys in this kind of category of slot players. How many guys in the NFL can be, like, truly a player that dictates your passing offense from the slot? How many guys have we seen like that?

Cooper Cup two years ago, I would argue. He played about two-thirds of his snaps in the slot. Keenan Allen has been like that at times for and CD. Those are probably the three guys over the last like three or four years out there. What's the common theme? They're all 205. Two. Yes. And that's six three. Yeah. Yeah. What's the what's the what's the one to what's. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I look at it. For the last four years, you know, five or five or two. Uh, the average. Yeah. So that's kind of the baseline. You're looking at for an average NFL receiver. So about a third, you know, give or take. It's so interesting. It's so interesting. I, it is.

Just thinking about. This is making me. That he could fit with. It's like, what if you put him in Minnesota with Justin Jefferson? And he was the slot option. But just Jeffs. The Seahawks are another really interesting potential example. The Seahawks used less 11% of the last year than you think that it was 52.8% of their snaps.

But if your best 11 guys include a slot receiver, does that start to change. So it's a really interesting question. All right. next one here the non top 50 player that you think has the best chance of becoming a starter game my guy Tyler Scott from Cincinnati yeah big fan this player he's fine I'm hiring him than than everybody and that's okay uh because I I believe in the talent believe in the player um I I get I feel like every year we compare somebody to Tyler lock it uh well I I really believe that Tyler Scott deserves that type of comp.

I think he has that type of ability. Not the biggest guys, 5-10, 177 pounds. But, you know, he's got speed. And for a guy that's still relatively new to the receiver position, he does a lot of receiver things really well. He's only a third-year junior. He was a running back in high school for like an option offense. I asked him how many catches he thought he had his entire high school career.

He said probably 10. So this is a guy that has not been running rounds and catching footballs. He's catching the pitch, you know. Yeah, there you go. So, but look, this guy is, you know, he's got the speed. I mean, three level talent, no question about that. Creates that vertical push. I think that stem acceleration really loosens the coverage with him.

And, you know, the ability to gear change. That's where I see a little bit of locket where it's not just go, go, go. It's, you know, shifting gears and being able to, you know, sell move, whether it's a double move or, you know, comebacks, digs. He can separate on all of those because, you know, his route breaks are outstanding. And I think he gets better with every single game. And he could be a playmaker. So he had 14 touchdown catches the last two years. All 14 were 20 plus yards. He averaged on those 14 touchdown catches,

44.6 yards per touchdown catch. So this is a big play guy, both, without the ball and with the ball. I think he's a second round pick all day and the type of guy that I'd love to continue developing and see what he could be. He's a fond. Another dude, five nine, five eight, 177 pounds.

We've reached a new era, my friends. Dude, he is springy. That's like the best way I could describe him, just springy. Yeah, I, you're the one that kind of tipped him off. Like you had him on one of your positional list or something. So I was kind of like, okay, I think it was back in December. And I was like, okay, I'm going to start watching that guy. And I texted you.

I was like, I get it. I see why you like this guy. He's just a natural ball catcher. Like that ball hits his hands. That ball doesn't move. It just sticks to his hands. I'm a fan of Scott, too. I'm glad.

I figured you would bring him up. I'm glad you did. All right, Nate, how about you? Your top non-top 50 guy that you think has the best chance of becoming a quick starter. I already mentioned. I'm Cedric Tillman from Tennessee. This is me being a caricature of myself. This is the X of this draft class.

This is big. loving the speed guy that's catching all the 60 yard touchdowns. And Nate's like, fuck that. Give me the big guy. Give me those eight to 12 yard gains on the outside. Give me stop routes all day. So I'll start with a couple negatives about them before again, the positives because this is what I do to the guys I like. SIS sports info solutions has a great stack called unique routes run.

And that's the types of different types of routes run. I don't know. I don't need to explain that much more. The 40 qualifying receivers they had, he was tied for second lowest with nine. with nine, which speaks to that Tennessee offense. He was tied with Tyler Scott, actually, kind of funnily enough. So he's basic with the ball in his hands. He gets the ball and he's like a wind up toy.

He just goes in one direction. He knows what he is. In that same SIS has other stats. He's near the bottom and broken mistackles and yards after the catch per reception. Having said all that, he's big and he gives a run and he has good hands. And that's a combo I'm always going to like. I think he's actually, he only runs nine different routes. I actually think he's pretty good coming out of the stops and curls.

I'll say above average. I'm not going to say good, but he can come out of it with some athleticism and some bend. He's not a total stiff or he is taking five steps to stop on his routes and come out of him. He has enough speed to stack receivers or stack corners on the outside. So he can win over the top. And I think he has strong hands and snatch throws. You see him get physical. There's a play against Pitt.

I felt bad for the corner. He just boxed. I mean, he just shoves the guy and box. I mean, it was a straight box. You know the one I'm talking about, right, Dane? It's in the ad zone. He just boxes the guy out. And even on the route leading up to that, the corner,

I want to look up with the corner as it was almost like a freshman or something, because he just tosses them and just, like, shoves him out of the way. And the guy's trying to get back to him and trying to guard him. And he just holds up. And these are a type of guys I like. I don't think his upside is tremendous. I'm not saying this guy is going to be a pro bowler in the future. But I think as a starting.

ex-rece receiver that can be, you know, a good number two in your offense. I think this guy has the potential for that. Came off some injuries, of course, last year as well, but, you know, was able to run and work out this spring. I like them. I really do. A draft with not a lot of these types of bodies, period, at any round. This is a guy that I like on day two. Where do you see him going about, Dan, Tillman? I think somewhere in that 50 to 70 range. That sounds about right. Late to early But if a team's really looking for an X, like we said, this is what this draft has to offer. And I think you have to go back to the 2021 tape to really appreciate everything that Tillman does when he was fully healthy and firing on all cylinders. But no, I agree with all of what you said.

He's going to be limited to a linear route tree. But he's a big target. He can accelerate. The play strength. He will not be bullied off his route. Yeah, he's just, he will be able to exploit some of the. those perimeter matchups. And so I think, you know, is he ever going to be a true, you know, number one for a team?

I don't think so. But, you know, he, as your second, third option, I think that he could potentially get there. Yeah. If you're, you're hoping for 80% of Mike Williams with him. And I think that's kind of like, I think that's a fair, like what he can get to. All right. Let's bring this down a notch. I'm going to talk about the guys that you both are lower on than maybe the consensus right now.

Dan, let's start with you. Who's somebody that you just don't see at the same. way as the conventional wisdom does right now. So I'm going to say Zay Flowers here, and I don't want it to sound like I don't like Zay Flowers because I do. I just, I'm not as high as everyone else seems to be on Zay Flowers. I mean, he's a, he's a awesome player. I mean, he's just, he's a smaller guy who, and I think he got better this year at working

down the field, which wasn't always the case on his, you know, the previous year's tapes, but I thought he did a better job this year. but again he's just a smaller guy shorter stature, smaller build. His wingspans among the smallest in this class. I think NFL size and strength will really kind of give him some trouble mid-rout and disrupt what he's trying to do out there. Relies on his body a little too much for me. He is elusive after the catch, but I really expected more mistackles than he did than he had on film.

And he wasn't really a return guy either. So I like Zayflowers. I mean, he's a top 40 guy for me. I just don't see the top 15, 20 guy that some people are talking about with them. Yeah. Yeah, that's one. I agree with Dane. Same thing.

Like him. Really do like him. I agree with Dane. When doing this for Bleacher Report the year before, and I thought he might be a draft eligible guy or declare, I had like a early fourth round grade on him, give or take. Like that's, and then I think he did improve this year where, but I still see him as a, the late second guy, you know, right in the range where Tillman's going. Same concerns that Dane has. I like the player.

It's just there's not that overwhelming thing. I want that how you win. Like what are you doing to win to be that guy to deserve 10 targets in a game or seven or plus targets in a game? And it's just more like he feels to me like a nice auxiliary target at the next level, a nice kind of secondary target when you already have a couple other guys that, but you're fine with him with the ball going his way, but maybe not. going to be that guy. It's like, oh, third and five, dial up a play for Zay.

You know, it's more for the other guys. I liked him when I watched him, but he was the guy that made me go look at those numbers about five, nine or shorter receivers playing on the outside. Because if he's not just going to be a slot guy, what sort of track record do those players have? And again, we're going back to even as you expand it to 510. We're talking about Tyree Kill, J.1 Wadle, Brandon Cook's, Tyler Lockett. I mean, the guy, Dave Flowers doesn't run 4, 3,5. That's not what he tested at.

So if he's going to be somebody who runs like Tyler Lockett, we're talking about one guy, right, who has shown an ability to play out size at that size in the NFL without being somebody who can really, really run by you. Like, he's explosive, though. Yeah. Even a guy like Skymore last year, like Skymore still has 20 pounds on him. You know, like they're, you know, they're similar heights. He put out some weight, though, didn't he, Dane? Wasn't that part of the pre-drafts kind of narrative about him is that he like put on a bunch of muscle?

He went from like 171 to 182. There you go. Good for him. Yeah, he is a little bit thicker. And not surprisingly, he did not weigh in at his pro day. Just like Bryce. Yeah. It's always funny going through the pro day, all the numbers, and looking at who didn't weigh.

Like Duane Jones, the big Ohio state rate tackle, he didn't weigh. I went to dinner with Mike Tomlin last night. I don't want you to see what I'm weighing this morning. So, you know, it's always interesting to see which guys try to maneuver around that. Nate, who's your answer to this? Who's the guy you're lower on? You fight the consensus. Hyatt a little bit, but that's more just taller.

But Josh Downs. I like him again. From North Carolina, yes. This guy is truly a slot only guy. Another sub 180 guy, 5-9, shorter arms, about 30 and a half, 33 a ace, I believe. This is the guy I actually did see a lot of Christian Kirk to his game. I know you compared him someone else to. Christian Kirk, but JSN.

But I just think he's kind of meh with the ball in his hands and kind of just, you know, some people say that he has juice, but to me it's like he's more smooth. That's kind of smooth athlete. And if I think that his play style is like Christian Kirk, Christian Kirk is an inch and a half taller and there's 20 pounds on downs. I just don't see that juice with the ball in his hands. I do think this guy is going to be a, he's a nice, fine, slot only guy. I just don't see, like I said, again, juice or that kind of explosive nature that

maybe he's kind of getting typecasted as. I think just more, this guy did run a lot, this guy being Downs, ran a lot of unique routes according to SIS, and that speaks to some of his craftiness as a route runner. And again, smoothness as an athlete. I just don't see that kind of like true, this guy deserves a ton of targets. I'm going to take this guy into top 50. I see this more guy as a late third round type. Still like him, but just don't see what everybody else is kind of seeing.

And so lower, lower the consensus. Where are you at on downs? Dan. I like him in that four. 40 to 50 range. So like that early to mid-second round range. I think if you need a slot receiver, I'd have no problem taking them there.

Like I don't think he belongs in the first or anything like that. But he's, I mean, I agree with a lot of what they said. He's, yeah, he is going to be best from the slot and probably a slot only. I think he does give you punt return value.

That's part of his profile as well. But I think he, and he's a guy that the, really impressed with how the drops have declined this year. He had like 94 catches only three drops. I mean, it was something that you could rely on him. Like, you knew, okay, Josh is going to get open. He's going to catch a ball.

And he might give you two or three yards after the catch. But at least I know what I'm getting. You know, even though he might not be the most explosive guy after the catch, I feel like I know what I'm getting with him. Like an efficient running back. It's like Leroy Horde. Like you get those three yards every time. And I think there is value in that if that's what the type of receiver you're looking for.

Right. After the first round, if you need a reliable slot, could you say, yeah, we'll wait to the third, fourth round to get one? Yes. But if you want one right now, I'd have no problem taking them there. Didn't he have one of the highest contested catch rates in all of FBS last season, despite being as small as he is? Yeah, he did.

Yeah. And he saw a lot of targets too. He was like 120 targets last year. Drake may peppered him. A lot of third downs, peppering them. All right, let's change the energy a little bit. Dane, who is the guy you're higher on? than consensus seems to be right now.

Well, I talked about Scott already, so I won't go him. The next guy would probably be Jaden Reed from Michigan State. Another guy that's not the big. I mean, he's 5-11-187. That's a giant in this class. But what I love about him is he plays better. That's about what I am right now, about 511-187. You know, wait a bit of your pro-ed?

Jane Reed, even though he's listed those measurable, he plays bigger. Like, you can throw on the tape and see him, you know, catch footballs off the top of corner's heads. And, you know, like he will, and he's got really strong hands, plays well through contact. This year, the Michigan State offense was a mess. But you go back last year when they had Kenny Walker in there at running back, and the offense was humming. And Jane Reed was fantastic. I mean, he was a big play threat down the field. He's got speed.

I mean, not like, you know, 4-3 speed, but 4-4-5 speed at really strong hands. And so I think, again, you have to, you have to project him going up against and beating press consistently on the outside. But I think he can do it. I think that he has, can live on the outside. He has speed. He's got route tempo. He's got downfield ball skills. I think he has the ingredients to be a, you know, a Z or, you know, a guy that can work on the perimeter.

and a few technical tweaks to his game. But if I'm picking in the mid to late third round, I'd love to draft Jane Reed when in reality he probably doesn't go until round four. Yeah, I'm glad you brought him up because that was one of mine. I have two here. But yeah, Jane Reed was wine. He was great at the Senior Bowl, too.

I'm a big fan of his game, man. What's your main concern about him, Nate? If those are the positives, what do you think of the main negatives that are pulling him down this far? solid route runner as opposed to maybe a great one. Nothing special, but he gets a job done. That's the thing. He gets the job done whatever you ask him to do.

Kind of a tight athlete, but he does make guys miss. Like he has some burst to his game and, I mean, he makes defenders miss because he has great contact balance. So I would say maybe he's just tightly wound. So his route tree might not be as extensive as others that are more fluid athletes, but he's not a bad athlete. He's a good athlete, I would actually say. But I just think that, you know, lack of size, of course, this is going to be another one. But I think this guy could be, could play all three spots like Dan said, perimeter or slot. He has some solid returnability too, like more of a, again, efficient get the job done returner.

I think he's just a smart, good football player. And I agree totally with Dan. I'm glad you brought him up because I great hand eye contested catch situations maximizes its size all the time. Another guy that the ball goes this way, he's going to try and come down with it. So I'm a big, big fan of him. All right. What's your answer for this one, Nate? Yeah, other than read, A.T. Perry from Wake Forest.

And this was, yeah, another caricature of myself. I'm glad to- I did. Oh, I know. I know. It seems like everybody else is kind of caught up with this. So now I've cooled off on them because I'm a total hipster. But just A.T. Perry, another vertical X receiver type.

I really see a lot of similarities with DJ Chark. Maybe not that juice that Chark has. Chark has a little bit more speed. Charc was like a 4-3-6 guy, I think. But time better than I, anticipated with Perry. And I was optimistic about it. I think he's more of a smooth athlete. He rolls into his routes. Again, the Wake Forest offense is another offense where you have to translate. It's the longest developing RPO's you'll ever see in your life. And it's all

vertical and the safety runs up. And so he just runs by guys. When I did see him running breaking routes, whether on film or at the senior, or I'm sorry, the Shrine Bowl during practices, is he's best when he gets to run those intermediate routes where he can roll into him. He has build up long speed as opposed to true Twitch. But I do think he has good ball skills and he's comfortable and he'll extend and use his frame. He's an older prospect, which I can see why people will ding him for that. And of course, coming from that offense, he has super production in that offense. Don't get me wrong.

But I think as a vertical guy with a little bit more route running to him that I think he's been given credit for, but actually uses his size. I just, I'm higher on this guy. I would take him more kind of early third is when I would start looking at him. But I just don't see a ton of, he's got a little love now from draft Twitter as people have watched him. But I understand the concerns, but I really do like his game. And again, this is a draft class with not a lot of big outside receivers. I think he can be a tolerable starter in an offense. What do you think of Perry, Daniel?

Yeah, the one area where I think separates, say, like Tillman from Perry is, with Perry, I worry a little bit about just consistently making plays through contact on the outside. Yeah, it's going to be there because he's a perimeter guy. And I agree with the concerns that you said. His speed is more buildup than immediate. I wish he had more of a finishing gear down the field. But he does track the ball well down the field. He's Mr. Fourth Gear.

He kind of just stays the fourth gear the whole time. Yeah. Yeah, a little leggy out of his breaks, especially some of those double moves where I think NFL corners to be able to stick on those a little bit more than the ACC. but yeah, he was productive. He, I think it's tied with Calvin Johnson in terms of most receiving touchdowns in ACC history. Like this guy found the end zone and created a lot of big plays with his ability to go up and get the ball. So I think that I'm a little bit lower, but I still like him in the top 100.

I think somewhere in that third round, I would have no problem drafted in A.T. Perry as an outside receiver. All right. So let's go outside that top 100 very quickly. Last category here before we talk about Jordan Edison because I think we have to. He's the only other big name guy we haven't gotten to. Nate, who is your favorite day three kind of throw a dark guy in this draft? I'm a huge fan of this guy's game. That's Jalen Cropper from Fresno State.

Another tiny guy. He's 174, was he? 172 somewhere around there. 172? Yeah. Operated more out of the slot in 2021. But last year he was more outside. So he's done both, but I'm not to discount.

I think he'll be best from the slot. This is another one of those conversations. but I don't want to discount what he can do from the outside because I've seen this guy beat press. He's got bursts and balance. He's a smooth athlete as well. He's got juice to create yards. They used him on screens a lot and design touches, a lot of rushing. He's got good contact balance, even despite a small size, plays tough.

I just really, really think this guy could be a good number three in an offense. I'm just a big fan of his game. I wish he was going to be bigger. Of course, that's going to be the knock on him. But watching him and Jake Hainer play was a lot of fun over the last two years. Like these two had a really special connection. But I just think this guy would be a very useful player that has some juice to him and can just like one of those like can just do everything well. And I like those type of guys.

It's just again, that he has a smaller size. So I understand why he's being typecast as a day three type of guy. But this is one guy I think it could be a sleeper and stick. Parker Washington from Penn State. He took over for the John Dodson role as the number one target this past year. He's kind of been out of sight out of mind because he's been hurt. He's gone. He couldn't finish the season.

but yeah, he's, he is so competitive both as a pass catcher. So, you know, he'll go up and play through contacts as staying through traffic. But then as a ball carry, you watch Ohio State tape. And, I mean, he was just breaking tackles everywhere. Bouncing off guys. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, above average play strength.

Yeah. The balance is outstanding. You know, I mean, there's parts of his game, especially as a deep threat where you see, like, there's a little golden tate here, you know, with the way that, you know, some of the instinctive ball skills and, you know, you know, only average speed, but just enough. And so I think Parker Washington's a little, a little bit off the radar right now because he hasn't been able to work out.

He's been hurt and he won't work out before the draft. But I like him quite a bit. To switch the, you know, we've been talking about a lot of smaller guys. A big, a big slot that I want to keep on the radar is Elijah Higgins from Stanford, who I think is that tight, is he a tight end? Is he a receiver? Not sure. I mean, he's going to be the end mix somewhere in the middle rounds for a team looking for that role.

and then a deep, deep sleeper to keep an eye on. My guy from West Florida, Durden, he was supposed to be at a Shrine game, but he's been hurt. But he's a 4-4 athlete, shows up on special teams. I think he gets drafted, and I think David Durden from West Florida. I think he'll be a good player in the NFL. I love you. Let me give him more of my sleeper since we're doing more to one.

Parker Washington was another one of mine. I'm fired up that you like him too. big fan of his game. Yeah, play strong. I like him a lot. Charlie Jones. I know. Charlie Jones from Purdue, uh, slash Iowa slash Buffalo. Um, like his game as well, has some returnability, but I think he was a productive guy. And then the last one, because I'm a sucker for size is, uh, Puka Nakao from BYU. Am I saying that right? Uh, Nakuwa. Nakua has an injury history, but a big fluid athlete, explosive with good hands. He actually kind of reminds me of Christian Watson a little bit, especially how they used them. A lot of jet sweeps and every. thing, but he led the week, led the country and yards per route run last year in nine games, injury history again, 4.3 yards per route run last year, which is outstanding. But he, I, I like him. Derek Classen was one, is a big fan of his game as well, but I really like, I like this guy as a day three big body athlete that has some ball skills to him. All right. Now we're moving past the

West Florida guys. Let's talk about the guy who I think for a while, Dan, and I don't know if he still is, was the number one wide receiver on your board. And that's Jordan. Addison, who we haven't hit in any of these categories so far. Why was he? Why is he? And where do you sit with Jordan Addison right now from USC? Slash Pinch. Well, okay.

I'm going to switch us up on you because I saw you tweet a USC clip last night. So you're watching a little bit of USC offense. What was your initial reaction to Jordan Addison? He's very slight. Yes. That was my initial reaction. I was watching the Utah game and I was concerned about. how often he was getting pushed around, especially down the field.

And that's my first takeaway. When you look at 171 without eye-popping explosiveness and speed, I'm going to be concerned about it. I know people like him, but now we're really getting outside of the band of receivers and their physical profiles that we've seen be successful in the NFL. And I would be concerned about that personally, but I've only watched like three games. So, no, it's, you mean, that's, it is a legitimate concern. There's no question. And it's not, it's, yes, he has a slight frame, slight build.

It's also below average power. The body strength does not impress you. Bigger defensive backs are going to be able to disrupt his release and route timing when they lock on to him. So are we talking about a slot only here? You know, I think he's, there's a lot to like about him. I think he's twitched up with his routes. And there's some of these routes where you see the crisp footwork, you see the route transitions. He can create space for himself.

he knows how to find the blind spot of corners. He's got immediate acceleration so he can force DBs to be a little uncomfortable with how they retreat and how they move. The vertical skills, he can get over top coverage. So there's a lot of things that like about him, but the size is a sticking point and something that's really hard to overlook. Because I think there is craftiness to what he's doing out there. you know, he does have a vertical element so he can work different levels of the field. But the lack of size is a legitimate concern. How do you feel about Addison?

Hey, we haven't talked about this yet. No. Going into the Combine, he was probably my receiver one, actually, after I watched all these guys. But, you know, not even just because of the Combine, the weight that kind of, I thought he'd probably weigh about 185, to be honest. I was like, oh, wow, that's so funny. Because when I watch him play and I watch Zay Flowers,

Zay Flowers looks bigger and stronger on a college football field to me than Jordan Addison does. I'm just stunned, like how light he had like 171 is like remarkably light. And, you know, he came to my attention watching Pickett last year and watching the pit offense. And of course, then you transferred to USC. And I saw it there. And I was like, wow, this guy, I mean, runs the whole route tree. Look how crafty he is. He's running burst corners and running, you know, all like nuanced routes.

say as far as like stemming stuff from the from the snap and actually be able to beat some press when he when he did it now I watched him this year and it's like he looked smaller it's kind of funny how that works it's like a pit he looks so much bigger than he does at USC I don't know if it's the uniforms or what it is maybe that blue and yellow makes you look bigger which is good to know as someone that's gained 10 pounds in the last month the but it's honestly like watching him I think there is a lot of skill and that makes me a little more tolerable to me. I do see him as probably going to have to be best from the slot because just strength. I just don't, like Dana's brought up, I just don't see that ability to win time and time

again on the outside, especially against NFL corners. I think he does have enough skill so you can do it five, seven snaps a game, but he's going to be a guy that's a 60% slot guy, I think, at the next level. I really do like him. I like his ball skills. I like his hands. There's a lot of craftiness to his game. He's like an old man at the Y a little bit, but it's, it's, it's, it's, It's tough. It's tough. Like I would honestly, I think he's my receiver three. Yeah, he is.

He's my receiver three. I still don't hate him, but he's a guy that I wouldn't take it until the second round just because of all the size concerns. And there's just not that overwhelming athletic trait that I'm like, yeah, he can overcome it because of this. It's more just the craftiness of his game. If we think he's a majority slot player, let's say 60% is the number you're given. Let's put up to two thirds of his snaps.

Dane, would you rather have him or JSA? Gosh, that's tough. I think I'm probably leaning. I think that Addison has a little more home run ability with ways he can create. But again, safe. If we're going with the guy that I just feel better about than JSN probably would be my answer. JASN will probably be my answer. But like Dane just said, Addison just has that a little more juice that I always like,

but it's just it's tough. It's a 20 pound difference between these two. And they both have Kraft Nisters games. and I'm just going to always defer to size. I know, I'd say that jokingly, but I'd say that seriously if I'm like an evaluate it. That's why I'm going to defer to. Addison was 173 at the Combine.

At his pro day, it was 170. So, I mean, it's not, he's a hard weight. Yeah, or a hard carry. Yeah, more likely going the other way than than the north with that weight. The last thing I want to say after watching Jordan Addison last night, I watched the first quarter of that game against Utah. And I was like, really, this is the guy. Caleb Williams.

I was like, this is him. Oh, yeah, then the second half. And then he did four or five things over the rest of the game where I was like, oh, my God. Tritch shots. Holy shit. I was texting with an offensive coordinator as I was watching it. We're talking about something else. And I was like, I'm watching Jordan Addison.

And I keep getting distracted. And he goes, that guy's unbelievable. He said he is going to make a group of coaches that are going to have the most miserable year of their entire lives. He's going to make it all worth it. after next season is over, which is such a good point. That's the way I coach would think about it. It's like all the pains someone's about to endure, it is going to be worth it because that guy is going to be on their team.

He's outrageous. It was the first time I'd ever watched him. I'm sitting there watching last night, and it was like seeing God. It was insane. It's, there's a lot of special to him. I mean, it's, he's going to get a lot of Patrick Mahomes comparisons because of the way he can just,

his arm and his ability to move platforms, And he has some of that, what makes Bryce Young so special with the instincts and the vision, but he's got a much better arm. And he's a much better athlete. And he's bigger. And he can move. And he's bigger. Exactly. So that type of package, yeah.

I mean, we'll be talking about him the way we talked about Trevor Lawrence a couple of years ago is like, okay, it's the Trevor Lawrence sweepsticks. Who's going to be? Which team is it going to be? It's something that will be keeping a close. And it's something that will affect what happens in this draft because teams will forward. scout and understand, okay, there's some dudes in next year's draft, and how does that affect what we do this year? Every team watch downs and every team watch Addison. And so they're like, hey, these quarterbacks are a lot of fun at North Carolina, USC. Let's keep an eye on them.

It's what we talked about earlier this week, though, Nate. If there are 10 teams that are thinking that only one gets the number one pick. Exactly. Only one. And how many of those teams that get the number one pick are already going to have a quarterback on the roster? Maybe Houston, maybe the Cardinals. But if you're the Cardinals, you didn't, you didn't draft Kyle or So then what happens with that? I mean, it's the race to the bottom and what it means for that guy is going to be fascinating. But we are going to have. Do you keep your job too?

Because if say the Colson, the quarterback this year, like, I mean, you know, you might not be in that position to drive Caleb Williams. So, yeah, it's a slippery slope. It's, there's a lot baked into that projection and what it ends up looking like over the next calendar year. But again, we're going to have a lot of time between now and then to chat about it. Gentlemen, this was fantastic. I really appreciate it. Dane, excited to have you here today and excited to have you with us again on Draft Night. For those of you guys have not heard, we got two live shows coming your way.

First and second and third rounds, Thursday and Friday night of the draft live from Kansas City. I was looking at the studio space yesterday. We got some real big boy stuff going on at the athletic football show. It is going to be a great time, excited for you guys to join us. It's going to be the three of us. We're going to have some special guests. We're going to have some bells and some whistles. It's going to be fantastic.

In the meantime, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. Please subscribe to The Athletic. Theathletic.com slash football show is the only way that you can get the beast, which drops when? Hopefully, Monday. I'm so sorry. I didn't want to put the defeat in your voice. I cannot wait to this thing. I'm sure.

It is a monumental achievement every single year, one of which you should be extremely proud. We are extremely proud to have you as part of the team and everything that we're doing over here. It was great to chat with you, buddy, and it was great to hang out with all of you. Please come back and see us tomorrow. Nate and I will be back talking about some more NFL team-centric views on the draft. Until that, appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.