The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The 2024 Non-Quarterback Player Draft

Episode Date: May 14, 2024

Derrik Klassen and Diante Lee join Robert Mays again - this time to draft the non-quarterback players they would want leading a franchise over the next three seasons.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, one of my favorite shows of the year on tap today. We did the quarterback draft on the Athletic Football Show last week with my buddy's Derek Classen and Deonté Lee. Fifteen guys, next three years, contracts included. Today, it is the non-quarterback version of that exercise. Any position, any player, same deal.

Five rounds, three years. contracts included, who are you choosing to build your team around? So many cool inflection points as you consider this exercise. Last couple of years, not a lot of high-end guys at premium positions were available in the draft. So it's created a little bit of a vacuum where you either have players who are very expensive and elite or guys who maybe you're compromising on a little bit in terms of price. But are you willing to do that and leave some of the more elite, if more expensive guys on the board? So a lot for us to work through today here to help me with the non-quarterback version of our annual draft series.

It's two guys you might be familiar with. They did the quarterbacks with me. Felt this was the best way to do it. Kind of keep things even, you know, have the same sort of dynamics. We flip things around a little bit and we'll get to that. But joining me today, first of all, from the 33rd team, from Bleacher Report, from reception, doing all sorts of stuff in your football content world. It's Derek Klausen.

Derek, how you doing, man? I'm doing good, man. We were talking about this a little bit pre-show. This is a much different show for me than the quarterback show. That one was pretty easy to rank and see how I wanted to put this together. This racked my brain a little bit, so this is going to be a good time. We'll dig into the overarching considerations before we actually start the draft. But before we do that, also joining us today, it's our old friend Deonté Lee.

Deonti, how you doing, man? I'm great, man. Spring ball is getting started for us this afternoon, so I'm locked in, ready to go. Exciting times. Absolutely. So my mind was already on edge rushers and linebackers and the whole deal. So going through this process was pretty fun. You know, my mind has already been locked in on binding value on things that are not quarterbacks. There are so many different considerations when you're doing this draft compared to the quarterbacks.

Contracts matter more just because they're all over the place, so many different positions to take into account. It feels like age is very important because we have guys all over the place. And the thing that I noticed when I was doing this, the lack of premium position talent from the 2023 draft is very apparent when you're doing this exercise. Because there aren't that many guys at high-end positions that are cheap for much longer. You have to talk yourself into and you have to make some compromises if you're going to go the cheap route with this list of players. And I think you guys will see that bear out as you see the order that these guys come

off the board. So just blanket rules and housekeeping before we get started. Three years, the next three years, contracts do matter. And you can go either way about whether this is an actual team that you're building or you're just trying to pick off value. I like to have a nice smattering of positions just because I like to think of it that way and I think it helps the conversation. But just so you know, I did not give these guys any charge to pick different positions and actually build a football team. This is more about a value proposition and a value-based draft

than it is a assembling an NFL roster draft. So last time, I was second. Deonti had the first pick, Derek had the third pick. We're going to flip that today. Derek, you are going to have the first pick in this draft of the five rounds that we're doing. Who is the number one pick for you in the 2024 non-quarterback draft?

I don't think this is quite as, you know, turn your brain off and just pick the guy as the quarterback one. Obviously, with the quarterbacks, you just take Patrick Mahomes, you don't think about it. But I think it's pretty close. And for me, it's Miles Garrett. I mean, to me, like, Miles Garrett is just far and away, like, probably just the far and away best defender in the NFL right now. 280, 285 pounds should not move that way. It's impossible.

Like, some of what he does in terms of being able to bend the edge, like some of his counter moves, some of his spin moves. like there is just a nimbleness to 280, 285 pounds that makes absolutely zero sense to me. And then you obviously combine that with, you get the power and length that you would typically ascribe to a guy who's, you know, 65, 285 pounds.

Like he just, in terms of the physical tool set has absolutely everything as a pass rusher. And then his hands are fantastic. Like he understands when to throw in his counter moves and all that stuff. And then as a run defender, I actually think he's kind of come along over the course of his career, early in his career, he was a little, you know, even coming out of college, he could be a little bit up and down. He's still not in the, you know, Khalil Mack territory. Like that guy, at his best,

was one of the best run defending edges I've ever seen. Miles Garrett isn't up there, but he can get into the backfield. And I think he's done a better job of being able to contain the edge now. So Miles Garrett, man, he is just, I would take him over anybody like contracts regardless. I don't care if I'm paying him a billion dollars. Like he, to me, is just such a special, special, special player. Deonti, who was the number one player on your board? Miles Gary. I also had Miles Garrett as the number one player on my board. I was so curious who the number one pick would be because in previous years, it's just

been Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald has been at the top of this draft in each of the time, I think every year since we've started doing it. So Aaron Donald being removed and I was like, all right, who's going to go number one? The Miles Garrett considerations, if you look at the contract, it's actually kind of cheating for this exercise. he has $37.5 million in 2027 that voids. So his cap numbers for the next three years are actually pretty tolerable. It's like $20 million each of the next three years. So if you're, I mean,

it's a technicality. We don't have to worry about the fourth year. So I think Miles Garrett is a pretty easy number one choice, or at least it was for me. So I'm a little bit bummed because I was hoping I would get him a two because he's expensive and he's a little bit older, but did not turn out that way and that's just how it goes for me well and that was the thing i was really interested about is where everybody's priorities lied for this like for quarterbacks i was probably a little bit more contract conscience was how i was ranking guys i think with this one i'm probably looking at it a little bit more like who are the best players i let me just rank the best players first and then we'll figure out the contract stuff a little bit like down the line and then i think you know obviously you

scale that with age as we go. But to me, Miles Garrett, for the player that you're going to get, no matter where you think he is on his trajectory, your development curve, the next three years probably still look like the best edge rusher in the NFL. So in terms of value, I'd much rather have that thing going younger just for the sake of going younger. Right. And age wasn't a concern for me because you're going to get a 29, 30, and 31.

So obviously, at a certain point, you get on the wrong end of 30. But for him, so let's say you lose 10% of the, the, the, you know, the, you know, the, the speed and agility he has. Okay, he's still 280 pounds and stronger than everybody else. Like, at that point, what? He's still like Dwight Freeney? Like, I don't care, like, if he loses a little bit. He's still, I'm willing to incur the risk of maybe he loses half a step

because the consequence of that is meaningless. Like, he's still probably a top three pass rusher in the league, even if that happens. Yeah, I think that's all fair. And we saw the best version of him last year when he was surrounded by the requisite help. And I think that that entry and that data point is important if you're just going to throw him at number one without thinking much about it, and I have no problem with that. At number two, I am going to go a little bit younger and a little bit cheaper, but even if I wasn't, even if those weren't considerations, I still think you could make an argument that he's number

two. I'm picking Michael Parsons. He's 25 years old. It'll be aged 25, 26, and 27 seasons. He's been one of, if not the most productive pass rushers on a person at basis in the NFL over the last couple years. And if you look at the contracts, it's $5 million this year, 21 next year, and then he's for an extension, it's going to be the cheap first year of an extension. So I would assume that over those three years, you're talking like $15 million on average. If you look at a lot of the guys that we're going to discuss in this exercise, a $15 million average over the next three years, it's pretty low compared to some of the other best players in the NFL.

So that kind of triumvirate of age, production, value, I think that he's a pretty easy one for me here at number two. Deonté, what do you think about that? I mean, the dude is a freak, right? Like if you're looking at, if you're looking at what he is as a pass rusher, and then you have to consider the fact that he basically only was really a pass rusher in the NFL, right? So in terms of just his, his arc in terms of understanding the position and how to apply some of his athletic freakiness to the position to be as productive as he's been so early in his career. It's, it's scary. And then you look at the way that he's been weaponized while Dan Quinn was there.

I'm really fascinated to see what Mike Zimmer is going to do for him with trying to create these bears. and mud fronts to make sure that he keeps one-on-ones, right? He has that, he has that combination of freaky physical traits and this kind of malleability within a scheme where I don't just have to play him out on the edge. I can move him and let him work a one-on-one over a center. We can kind of, you know, pick the fish with this guy and light him up over a guard, you know, whatever we need to do to, you know, kind of free him up.

And I think to the same point we're making about Miles Garrett, while he's not a dominant run defender all the time, what you do, get out of him when he is locked in and playing high motor football, it's game wrecking. There's really only Miles Garrett that's in the conversation for me in terms of a guy that when it's switched all the way on, there's just nothing you can do as an offense to keep his effect away from the game. Derek, where was Michael Parsons for you? He was like top four, top five for me. So it was kind of like, I thought there was maybe a small chance he could be there at my next pick, just depending on who valued what. Yeah, like he was right up there.

I do think he's interesting compared to Miles Garrett though because like Garrett as I said huge guy who just has no right to be as nimble and as quick as he is Parsons is kind of the opposite where he's a little bit undersized for a true defensive end he has no right to be as strong and powerful as he is like he will when he gets hands in your chest you're gone like you're just so toast so it's really cool watching those two

in comparison to each other because like I said they're just physically very very different but they can kind of accomplish almost the same thing because of just how athletically gifted they are. I can't remember what the exact terminology was that he was using. I think it was, I'm thinking back to Howie Roseman in his post-draft press conference when he was talking about, I think it was Johnny Wilson, actually, when he was discussing late round picks.

But he was saying, if you're going to draft a guy in the sixth or seventh round, what I want to do is I want to draft guys who are unusual. And with Miles Garrett and Michael Parsons, we're talking about unusual people. the way they move physically, how flexible they are. And I think if you're talking about the top of this draft, that's what I want. I want unusual types of players that just have a completely different physical skill set than everyone else. And I think that you could pretty safely say that about Miles Garrett and Micah Parsons.

All right, Deontay, you're up here at number three. So your number two players still on the board. I'm very curious about who this is. It's Justin Jefferson for me. I'm going to go with Justin Jefferson. He was three for me. I just think that, you know, and that's considering, right, that this is as cheap as he is ever going to be for as long as he is an NFL football player in this season, right? Like, knowing that he is going to set the market or reset the market, depending on how the timing works out with him and the rest of the receiving class that's coming up contract-wise, you just can't replace.

That guy is like an offense unto himself, right? And we got to see a lot of that last year. What you can build around him, the fact that you can move him around. He can play the X and be a true X. You can play him as a move around guy and he can be a yak player for you. He can work the middle of the field if you need him to. There's just so much detail to his game in terms of being a complete wide receiver. If you consider some of the guys that we had in that conversation three, four years ago,

in terms of Devonthe Adams and those guys, as they are kind of past that peak, he's the next guy on the curve that's going to be that complete, can't do anything with them. Your best bet is to try to double cover him or play cloud coverage over him. and hope that you just get a bunch of eyes and bodies next to him because if he gets one-on-one coverage, you can never expect that you're going to win that back. You look at it, even though he's going to be really expensive. So the numbers over the next three years,

he's on the final year of his deal now. It's like 19.8. Then you get the first two years of an extension. When I was playing it out, I was like, all let's say it's 18 and 30, right, in the first two years. It's a $23 million a year average over the next three years. That's expensive, but there aren't that many other receivers that I would want that are cheaper.

I mean, if you look at that list, Jamar Chase has one more cheap year than Jefferson does, but he's going to get pretty expensive, pretty fast. The only guys who have multiple cheap years left would be the guys from the 2022 class. So that's like Chrysal Lave, Drake London, solid players, but not stars. And then the 2023 class, there's no one to really work with. So if you're going to go receiver here, you either have to make some real compromises on price, or you have to be willing to live with a guy who is expensive. And I think all of us were willing to live with Justin Jefferson being as a

expensive as he is. Absolutely. He would have been my first offensive player off the board. Like he is, I mean, like Deonté said, he is an offense by himself. Because the thing is, even some of these other star receivers that probably will go at some point in this draft, limited is the wrong word, but there's like a very obvious way how to use them.

That's just not the case with Justin Jefferson, man. Like you could put him in any conceivable receiver role and he will be the best player on the field no matter what you do. Which I think gives, when you have an offensive coordinator or an offensive play caller like Kevin O'Connell. It's just, it's a disgusting duo of those two. So, yeah, very easy figure.

The only reason I want Parsons over Jefferson is because I think if you look at some of the other edge rushers who are available, they're all much more expensive than Micah Parsons is going to be. The gap between Jefferson and the rest of those guys, they're about the same price. That's why I gave the slight edge to Parsons. But I think that Jeffers, just Jefferson is 100% in that conversation to go off the board after Miles Gray. I agree.

And then I think like, if you're thinking on the age curve, right, outside of Will Anderson, there's really nobody else that's in the conversation on the age curve with where Michael Parsons is at. At that point, you're talking Nick Bosa, who is starting to walk towards 30. You're talking about Max Crosby. And it's very expensive. Exactly. Max Crosby is pretty expensive. Exactly. There are only a couple other guys that are younger at the edge rush response. And again, you'd be compromising a little bit in terms of upside and talent. And we'll have that conversation as we get a little bit deeper because I do think there are a couple interesting names. All right. We're back to two. Derek here at number four. Derek, where are you going? I'm caught between two positions, but I think one, I'm going to have more options a little bit later in the draft. So I'm going to go with the other one.

I'm going to go Patrick Sturtain, corner Denver. I still think he is unbelievable. Obviously, because Denver's kind of turmoil the past two years, I think we've tuned them out a little bit. But when I watch him play,

he is just everything I love about a cornerback. He is incredibly, smart. He is incredibly physical. He has very long arms. He's a lot faster, truthfully, than I thought he was coming out of college, which is like kind of what took him from, to me, like a B-plus player coming out of college to being a

true superstar, superstar in the NFL. But you just watch like every year. It's because we never had to watch him recover or play out of position in college. So you never had to know if he had catch-up speed. He was always in perfectly positioned and playing in such control that he was looking. It looked like he was playing slow.

That's what it is. All of it is so in control. It's almost like, you know, we were talking about C.J. Stroud on the quarterback show where I was like every single movement he has, it just feels like it's all together and in one motion like he's moving as if he's water. That is how Patrick Chautan plays cornerback. And it allows him to cover every kind of receiver. And then you even just, this is very, you know, the easy thing to do. But if you just watch all of his matchups against Devante Adams, no other corner in Devante Adams's like career in terms of from when he got good, I should mean.

has ever played Devante that way. Like he just, it's unbelievable the way that he plays. And yeah, Devonte will get him two, three times a game. But to be able to go one on one with him for four quarters is, is unbelievable.

So Certan, to me, I truly think in a league where there really aren't that many true, go put him on anybody, shadow him from the slot outside, doesn't matter, go let him play one on one ball. There's really only maybe two or three guys in the league.

And he, to me, is the one that fits my mold of cornerback the best. so Sir Tams, I pick. Would he have been your top corner, Deonti? Yeah, he was on the one corner. So I was upset. I was hoping that maybe sauce will go ahead of them. I was hoping maybe like a younger corner might get a little bit of a knot,

especially considering, like Derek said, how much Denver's defense is cratered, right? But you can turn on the film any week. And it's like, this is the prototype, man. And we're not even making these, we're not making these guys anymore that play corner. You know, we don't see enough guys physically that have that, legit 6-1 plus long arms, legitimate top-end speed, the hip, you know, the hip mobility to be able to cover the entire route tree. And he plays the ball excellently. It's really him and sauce when we talk about like size prototypes that meet that mold. And I just think that Patrick

Certain is a step ahead when you talk about like man-to-man details being able to play any receiver in any part of the route tree throughout the game. Like that's what separates them for me. and one of my favorite players to watch in the NFL, probably my favorite guy that I've ever watched from college to the NFL and getting ready for his draft. Still relatively cheap in relation to this exercise, 6.7 this year, 19.8 next year, and then the first year of a,

what I assume will be a market setting extension, but let's say that's $18 million for the guys that we're talking about on this list, that's actually pretty good. I won't dig in any more to the sauce versus Patrick Tratton. I think we'll talk about that more when sauce goes, because I don't want either of you to show your hands more than if you want to right now. So we'll wait until he actually comes off the board.

All right. So that means I'm picking at five. And I'm happy because the two guys I wanted here, or two guys I was thinking I would have to choose between are still here. I'm taking Pene Soil. If I didn't take Certan, that's what I was doing. Literally, if it wasn't going to be Certan, it was going to be Soule for me too. So I had Pennesul and one other guy.

And it's, I'll say who it is. It was between Pene Suo and Jumarchase for me. And the fact that we're once again, we're making decisions between Penae Soule and Jemar Chase three years in. The lien will never die. I feel like it's so appropriate, though. The fact that they're right here and stacked up, I think as you do it now as a historical exercise,

it's even more interesting that they've pretty much been just as valuable as one another during their careers. We can make an argument that players like Sue are more scarce, and I think that's right. And I think that's why I'm willing to take him here. And even after getting that extension, He's $8 million this year, 9.8 next year, and then 28 in year three. It's a $15 million average.

You look at all the other tackles that you would take ahead of him. He's still cheaper. He's younger, and he might be better. I mean, there are a couple guys in the conversation, but everyone that's close to him in terms of youth and production is going to be a little bit more expensive in this exercise. And the way that he played last year and just the way that the Lions could build their offense in a lot of ways.

through their right tackle was insane. And we've gotten to a place now where I think right tackles and left tackles, as evidenced by his contract, there really isn't much of a difference. So there aren't any boxes that he isn't checking at this point. So I feel pretty good about getting him here at five. I'm with you. I mean, again, when you talk about guys that younger, I look at him and Tristan Works are probably the two top young tackles

that I would have considered high in this. And today's soul over what we've seen the last. two years, the versatility, what they're able to do with him with the run game, the way that he's past protected, you think about the size, the way he projects, the consistency basically since day one, you can't really argue against it. The dude checks every box. There's no reason not to be confident that when he gets paid, he is still, that he's not going to continue to be the best right tackle in the NFL. Worf's is a year older, and he has no cheap years really left on his deal. It's 18.6 this

year and then you're on an extension. Rayshan Slater's probably in that conversation. He's got one cheap year left, but the trajectory is not the same as Wasul, who's gotten better every single year, and he's a year older. So for me, this one was pretty easy. All right, so six is, we're back to Deontay. What do you got for? What are you got for? It's tough. This is over starts getting tough for me. So in the spirit of the meme, I'm going to go Jamar Chase here. In the stare at the name, I'll go Mark Chase here because that was kind of a coin flip for me. I figured that those names would be right around here for me for the second pick. But I mean, again, you're talking about when he does set the market, do I think he's going to be better than Justin Jefferson when it's his turn

to get paid? No. But in terms of market setting talents at this position, if I've got to settle on that, I would much rather have it be Jamar Chase than, you know, wide receivers that are down the line, right? Like I think about AJ Brown who's not going to be as expensive, but I'd rather have Jamar Chase and AJ Brown, I think. You think about other wide receivers down the line. C.D. Lamb is going to be another guy that's highly paid. I don't think he's in the same conversation as a Tier 1 guy, like a Jamar Chase, like a Justin Jefferson, for as much as I like CD.

And I don't want to wait, you know, until later on in this draft and have to be stuck with that when you consider contracts. So Jamar Chase still great vertical threat, right? Ball winner, great yak player. I think that he's shown, you know, as the years have gone on and as Cincinnati's offense, And this is something we talked about with Joe Burrow as well. As that offense has evolved and asked more out of Jamar Chase, we've seen him answer the call as a wide receiver, right?

And they found more ways to weaponize them outside of just running him up and down the vertical tree. And I love to see that in his game. And that's why to me I think he should be rightfully the second wide receiver to come off the board. Yeah, I think I'm with you on every single bit of that. I think the evolution of their offense and the different wrinkles with him, whether it's how he was used in the slot, how he was used getting the ball in his hands. so many different new kind of functions within their offense that I think he was able to play in this year that was really cool to watch. Derek, how do you tear the receivers out?

Do you feel like it's Jefferson Chase and then a slight drop off with these younger guys? How do you stack it up with those two specifically compared to everybody else? That's exactly. If Chase was here with my next pick, I was going to take him. Because to the same point, Chase is the only guy left who is both, I mean, he's young. You're going to have to pay him, but he is incredibly young. I still think the arrow is going upwards. I actually just started charting Joe Burrow the other day.

The way he comes back and plays the ball, dude, is I think it's a very underrated aspect of his game. Like we all think about, oh, he's big and all the yak stuff and all the, oh, the vertical stuff. No, dude, the way he comes back to the ball and is able to play in traffic is really, really insane to me. So, yeah, to me, Chase, in terms of like tiering these guys, even with the contract in mind that you're about to pay him, I don't really care.

He would have been up here. because yeah, at that point, you're either going into the guys who are really old, or like you said earlier, the 2020, what would it be two class of, like, Chris Olavay and Drake London, great players, maybe they go at the end of this exercise or something, but it's not the same tier. That's what you're getting at, the Jamar Chase. So let's do that. Jamar Chase this year is $9.8 million, 21.8 in his fifth year option,

and then it'll be year one of an extension. If you average that out, it's probably about $16 million with the cheap first year of the extension. it. If you look at those other guys, the Garrett-Wilson's and the Chrisel Lave's, five, six, and then probably 18 or so on their third year. So that's 11, 18, 30. So it's 10 million compared to 20 million. That's a pretty big gap. But this has become one of those positions when it comes to the top, top tier guys. Similar to what we were talking about with quarterbacks, in my opinion, Dei. Don't skimp. Like, this is something that's worth investing in. It is worth having one of these true difference-making type guys, even if there is about

a $10 million gap between them and some of the other younger 1B-ish type receivers. Well, and what we're seeing in the NFL now is I think more GMs and more head coaches are accepting of the fact that it's not the scheme that'll boost the quarterback if you don't have a top-end quarterback. It's having the weapons that really boost that lifts the boats, right? And you need to have a guy like that. And I went into this exercise thinking, if I'm building offensively, how can I protect myself against having a mid-tier, you know, average or replacement level type of quarterback starting.

I want guys like Justin Jefferson. I want guys like Jamar Chase. And then everybody else below that to the point that you made, Robert, if this was a, hey, we're taking the top 15 guys that are 25 and under, I might consider some of the younger guys a little bit higher than I did in this exercise. But if I'm taking a look at the field, I need to have top-in talent because I know we need to go be able to break defenses to be effective, you know, in a, in the least. where we're seeing more and more often defenses are getting better at taking away explosive plays.

I need guys that can do it all to be able to keep us explosive on the offensive end. This is the first time that we've done this exercise that I haven't drafted the receiver very high. Typically, I come away from the top five. I was certain that you would. I was certain that you would. And you know why I'm not? And it's because I talked myself into some of the guys on the second and third level. If I have to get them a little bit later, I think I'll be okay with that.

But as we've gone through the exercise and now those two guys are gone, I'm already feeling like itchy. I don't like the fact that those two guys are already off the board. And now I somehow, by the time this gets done, I'll have a receiver. But where I have to go now that those top two guys are gone, it just makes it a little bit more difficult. And again, you have to compromise in a way that I typically haven't when we've done this exercise in the past. Imagine how I feel. I have no end rushers went off. Ed rushers and corners went off and I didn't get any of them.

I am going for the first contract play, I think, and I'm going to pick Will Anderson. Yeah, I'm a big time. This is, I'm picking him for partially the same reasons that I think the Houston Texans picked him, which is this is a culture fit. If that makes sense, like this, like this to me, I mean, I know this sounds ridiculous for the, for the course of the exercise, but Anderson to me is just a player who does everything right. himself exceptionally well. And you even see this in the way that he plays. Like he, to me, is just, you need to do it who's going to go set the run. He'll do it.

You need to do who's going to go take the guard and punch him in the face. He'll do it. Like, he is very not afraid to go do the dirty work, which I don't think you get a lot from these guys who are, you know, top five, 250 pound edge rush. Like, those guys want to go get the passer, dude. And Anderson obviously does that. But the fact that he has this in his bag and he's very willing to do everything for your defense, it can be a three-down player.

that goes a really, really long way for me. It's why I loved, like, you know, different players, but I love Khalil Mack. I'll bring him up again. It's because the same thing. Like, he's very willing to go do all the dirty work. So I just love that style of player. And then purely as a pass rusher, he's probably not in that elite elite tier that

Garrett is or even Parsons or even like the best of Nick Bosa. So you're going to take him seventh overall when he's not in that tier? You feel good about that? Yeah. Well, to me, the only other pass rushers that you could take here are very, expensive and or old and or injured, i.e. Nick Bosa. So I was very willing to go for the young guy, because too, at some point, I need to take a guy who's not going to, you know, pinch my pockets. But I just love the way Will Anderson plays. And when I say, like, he's not in that elite,

elite tier. I think he could still be, like, right in the next one where he's still getting a dozen plus sacks. It just maybe not in the like literally every year all pro conversation. But again, I'm totally fine with that with the run defense stuff. And I know it sounds ridiculous, but like the culture fit thing, I think with specifically a guy like him actually goes a long way and like kind of sets the tone for your defense. How do you feel about this, Deante? You and I have a will. You and I have like an existential Will Anderson conversation every single year.

Let's let this be it. This is this year's version of that conversation. Derek invoked the name like and I remember sitting on this show with Nate before he was drafted. And I was probably talking circles around like, I know I'm not allowed to bring up Khalil Mack. I am not allowed to bring up Kalil Mack. That's not fair for the prospect. You're not supposed to bring up names like this when you talk about these players. You're not supposed to talk about guys like Derek Thomas.

But when I watch this guy and you just talk about motor, attitude, approach to the game, how you play the run, the motor when you talk about pass rush, the relentlessness. I think that the way I described them coming out of Alabama was, he was the only player I watched in that class that is always affecting the pocket. There are some guys that are going to be better in terms of moves, right? There are some guys that are going to be better in terms of pure get-off. There are guys in this class I might have graded ahead in terms of get-off, in terms of your bendiness, in terms of your hand-fighting.

But when it just comes to an understanding of how to affect the pocket, how to continue working, how to beat double teams, how to set an edge in the run game, he brings a combination of those factors that you just don't find the guys that are this young, right? There are details in his game that takes pass rushers years to get because, to Derek's point, they want to go do the sexy stuff, right? I want to work my ghost move and go get to the quarterback. I want my ESPN splash reel to look good with these sack strips and all that. And I do think that he still has potential to get there. To Derek's point, is he ever going to be like a 20 sack guy? Maybe not. But I think that he can probably be 12 to 14 year in and year out

and legitimately, you know, bring the type of motor and physicality. You need to be like the best run-defending edge in the NFL. That kind of potential, I think, is very real with him. And that's why I think if I was going to take the young edge, that would have been my guy. Okay. Would you have taken him this high? Now, I appreciate you rationalizing the choice. But let's get down to it.

Would you have taken him this high considering the fact that he probably will never be one of those 20-sac guys? For me, no. For me, no. He was underneath the top. line for me. He was on my board, though. He was on my board just below a top 15, only because it's not proven yet that he is a down-in, down-out, pass rush, you know, high-pressure rate sat guy. But if you produce that way, obviously, that would change a consideration. For me, no, I wouldn't take a mirror. I have other guys that have my eyes on that might not play like premium positions,

like Edge, but I'm not mad at what Derek is doing in the rationale behind it. I love Will Anderson. I love watching Will Anderson play. I would take Will Anderson on my real-life football team any day of the week for $10 million a year. But it's those two considerations. We've only seen it for a year. So, I mean, that's something you have to think about,

just lack of trackwork compared to other guys. And I do think that even if he's going to be an 88 on Madden for the next 15 years of his career, and he's probably going to win Super Bowls and be a guy that goes down as like, let's say a whole very good time. player, like six, eight pro bowl's type guy, like that type of guy.

I would almost write that in pen right now independent of a major injury, but I think it's the lack of like uber crazy ceiling that would hold me back specifically to take him this high. And I think all of that is totally fair. Like I said, a lot of this is like culture fit, which

to me, if I'm thinking about it like I'm building a team, that matters to me a lot. I will say the other thing too. Derek is the Dan Campbell of quarterback and not quarterback draft. Derek's my favorite person in football because he will do all the smart work stuff and all the data and all the charting. But if you really ask him, he's only going to talk about the players that he enjoys watching. And that's the way that you're supposed to approach this sport.

Listen, Miles Garrett is setting the tone physically. Will Anderson is doing it mentally. And I'm good on defense now. I will say, though, that my other only like co-fratualization here, I don't think there are like any other rookie contract players. I mean, there are some where you get like maybe the last year of the rookie contract. I don't think there are any other rookie contract players that are really in this category for me except for maybe one other defensive player

that will probably go later. What do we think about Aidan Hutchinson? Does he even sniff this list for you guys? We're talking about cheapish pass rushers. Personally, I didn't consider him. He would be on my board, but I'm a little bit lower on him than this. He would probably be in the like 1520 range for me.

And I know like we've seen more production out of him, but I just think Will Anderson is a more completely. plea player. He's 18th for me. And he was the only other cheapish pass rusher as part of this exercise. And honestly, it's part of why I was so motivated to get Michael Parsons at two, because the pass rushers dry up pretty fast. They either get very expensive and injured, like you mentioned, or you have to make, you have to cut some corners. And so that's surprising because it felt like there was always going to be four, five, six of those guys that you could choose from. But T.J. Watts is making $30 million a year. And he misses games.

not last year, but two years ago, I missed seven games. So there's those considerations with pretty much every other guy at that position, which I didn't necessarily know until I started doing this exercise, which is an interesting conclusion to reach.

All right, I'm at eight, and I had an idea where I wanted to go with this pick and who would be available. I did not think this next guy would be here, so it's kind of thrown a wrench into my plans. This is hard. I have two guys that I'm picking between

that I did not think I would have to be picking between. This is the range where the game gets difficult to play. All right. I'm going to throw a bit of a curveball here. Shit. Do it, do it, do it. I just did.

You got a one-off me. Let's go. I want to hear it. Because I didn't think I'd have to do this. And now it's really hard. I'm going to go, I'm still going to go with Sox Gardner. All right. I mean, okay.

Okay. So I had a different direction I was going to head with this, but I thought he was going to be gone. I had him at six on my board. He's 24 years old. You're going to get age 24, 25, 26 seasons. One of the biggest things to worry about with corners is volatility in play. You watch it and guys have up and down seasons all the time.

It's just hard to bet on a guy to be consistent at that spot year over year. He's been arguably the best outside corner in the league over the last two seasons. Like the production's absolutely insane. So the consistency has been there. And if you look at how cheap he is compared to a lot of the other guys on this list, nine million this year, 10.6 next year, and then his fifth year option is probably going to be around 20. So we're talking like 13 million,

which is half of a lot of the other defensive players that we're going to discuss here. So that's why I feel okay about it. I mean, this is the second year in a row. If you look at the PFF numbers, he is the highest forced incompletion percentage in the league among full-time starters. That is really hard to do year over year.

And even if he's not quite as malleable as Sertan is in terms of deployment, I'm just fine sticking him outside the numbers on one half of the field and then building my defense around it. I can live with that just fine. Well, and like you said, you get a cheap year over Sur tan.

Anyway, so like if my tiebreaker was the malleability that I get out of Coutan, the coin flip, the other side of that coin can be, well, you get another cheap year out of Gardner and he's the same quality of player. It's just a matter of which style you prefer. So it's, yeah, it's six of one, half dozen,

or the other. this is very hard for me. I did not anticipate going that direction. There are guys that it's sad for me to leave off, but I just think that the corners, it's such a smaller list compared to other positions here. There just aren't that many guys I would even consider.

So the fact that he's still there and he's as cheap and as young as he is, I just have to jump on that because I can find defensive interior players later. I can find receivers later. And corner is just, it's going to dry up a little bit faster than that. So I'd rather jump on it now

and not have to scrape it. anything together by the end. I agree. I mean, giving away a little bit of my draft board, that was the last guy at this position that I have above my top 21. The rest of the guys, it's like when I start thinking about contracts. Really? I have one more. I start thinking about contracts, consistency and play, you know, how sticky I think they'll be year to year. I'm trying to remove them from their current schematic context and looking at them, you know, just kind of in a general sense. That's the last guy I had at corner that I would consider this highly. The rest of the guys is more of a, it depends. It depends.

on what is and isn't available for me later on. All right, well, so I feel comfortable asking you this then. You do not have Derek Stingley in your top 20. He is not about top 20. If this was a 25 and underdraft, he makes it. What keeps him off for you?

To me, it's, to me, it's durability. I do have. Okay, that's totally fair. I am starting to really get concerned about how many times I can count on this guy to be there for 15 plus games in a season. and I just don't think we have gotten the top end production that I would like to see to keep him in the conversation with guys that we have already seen deliver at an all pro level, right? Like even if I'm trying to be more optimistic on where his developmental art can be and everybody on this show and I'm sure most of the people that are listening know how I feel about Derek.

That's why I'm so surprised. So I know I know that this is probably a shock to hear. But for me, at this point, when we start talking about the top non-quarterbacks in the league, I can speak to. from my perspective, I lean a little bit more on the, you got to show me. You just have, you have to show me first for me to believe that you're worthy of being in this conversation.

And Stingley's close, he's just not there yet. Beth, one of the better guys in terms of our younger talent, but not there yet if we talk about the rest of the league. He's on mine, just because I think that the flashes last year were so tantalizing. And the lack of other corners on this list,

it pushed him up a little bit higher for me. I'm not going to ask you to give it away, Derek, whether or not he's still lingering out there for you. So you could still take him. But I mean, I'll show my board a little bit with him as well. He would have been like in the like 20 to 25 range for me. So like, okay. All right.

So I was the only one to have him in the top 20. That's interesting. I will say like with my last pick, it would have been a consideration depending on how everything went. But with me getting certain at the very top, I was like, I probably would have been okay. This is throwing such a wrench into my plans. I really thought I knew how this was going to go. I just assumed sauce would be gone.

and I would be able to do some weirder shit at eight. And now that I couldn't, I'm going to have to really pull out the weird shit over the last couple picks. All right, Deiate, you are up at number eight here. What do you got for me? So for me, this is where I'm going to break

from everything I believe in terms of positional value and, you know, and all of that. This is a, the gym is throwing a hammer down. I'm making this pick. This is my pick. I don't care how you use the guy. He is going to be on my,

roster. It is not like he's not a great football player, but for me, this is Kyle Hamilton. That's who I was picking between. I was picking between Sauce Gardner and Kyle Hamilton, and I thought that Gardner would be gone, and that's why I thought I would get Hamilton at eight. All right, explain why that this is a little bit surprising in terms of positional value considerations with some of the other guys on the board. Why does this feel like you're putting your stamp on it? To me, it has, it almost has less to do with production and more just about what's available to you in terms of play style.

If I need, I can match up however I want to match up defensively and get this guy next to where I think the football was going, right? It's the same way we talked five years ago about Derwin James. It's effectively the same conversation. And then you got to add in the fact that But I think he's better now

than Derwin James ever was. I was going to say, Derwin is a little bit more twitchy and explosive than Kyle is, but when you talk about size, consistent tackling ability, He does have great ball skills. I think even better ball skills than he was given credit for coming into the league. You see his feel out in coverage.

The fact that he can match up well one-on-one with tight ends, there's really nothing that you can't ask this guy to do defensively. And for me, when you talk about versatility, taking away explosive plays, so much of that is match-up-based. You've got to think the way the NBA teams do now about having wings that can switch out on the perimeter. That's what this guy is. He is emblematic of that. approach defensively.

And then you think about the fact we get to watch him in Baltimore, which is probably built better than any other team in the NFL to be able to use a guy like this to the best of his abilities. You can make an argument that he is the most complete

back seven player in the NFL if you wanted to. Where did you have him, Derek, on your list, Kyle Hamilton. I was going to take him the next pick if he was saying. Like Kyle is just, and Deontay said it.

I'll hits, dude. Like, he hits and tackles. Like specifically that San Francisco game. He had a number of moments where even like he was just, I don't know, man, the way he plays near the line of scrimmage to me is very,

very rare. And when you can do it with his size, his length and still go out and play just in the slot man to man if you need to, there just aren't a whole lot of guys who can do that. Like he, I think outside of corners and defensive ends, it's really, really hard to find defensive players who truly set the tone and shape of

your defense. Kyle can do that. Hamilton can truly change the way that your defense is allowed to play and that's why he should be taken here. And then when you consider age, you know,

he's still cheap for a little bit. It just lights out player, man. He's so cool. He's very cheap. He's probably the cheapest player we're going to talk about in this exercise.

Because he fell in that draft. Yeah, he fell in that draft. So he's back after the first round. He's only going into year three. So we're talking four and a half million this year, five million next year. And then probably 18.

million on his third year option. That's a $9 million average over the next three years. I'm confident in saying maybe outside of one guy I might pick later, there is not going to be a single other player on this list that has a single digit average over the next three years. And if you look at the way the safety market has gone, Antoine Winfield got a $21 million extension, 20 minutes before we started recording this thing. He is now the highest paid defensive back in the NFL, not a corner, Antoine Winfield is. So if you look at the direction of the safety market and where it's going for some of these top guys,

you're getting a real discount by picking Kyle Hamilton on this contract. And that's why I really wanted him, and I'm very sad that even if I got sauce and didn't think I was going to, I really did want to leave this exercise with Kyle Hamilton on my team, and I'm a little bit bummed about it.

It's all about my vibes, man. I listen, it's good vibes. It's very good vibes. All right, we're back at 10. here with you, Derek, heading into round four. What do you got for me? Okay, so I'll tip my hand a little bit. This is an offensive tackle,

and I'm basically debating if I want one extra year of cheap play, or do I just want the player, I think, is better. And I think I'm going to go with the player. I have that right next to each other on my board. I think they are right one and then the other. Yeah, I think I'm just going to go with the player, I think is better, which to me is Tristan Wurfs, Tampa Bay Buckingiers left tackle.

He to me is just, the fact that he could walk into the league, play right tackle at an all pro level and then just hey man we need you to go play left tackle now and still plays that you know he didn't get nominated to all pro this year but he played at pretty close to an all pro level the fact that you can just flip flop from right to left like that is it's completely insane um i think he is truly one of those offensive linemen that is not quite in the pen a school tier of you know offensive weapon where he is just road grading and you can do a handful of different things with him offensively but he is pretty close um and he's the only like

I'm actually really excited to see the Bucks run game now that they fix the interior a little bit because I think that they could be a really cool run game with what he's able to do. But then just as a pass blocker too, like he is just, what you want in a left tackle, like, you know, there have been some guys that get drafted over the years because they do some cool highlight stuff like Greg Robinson or whatever. A left tackle, you just want said it and forget it. I want to not even know this guy's name. But like I never want to hear his name called for the entire season. That's Tristan.

him like he is just the length, the way that he's able to move at that size, he's just an incredibly sound technician. And when we have his level of athleticism, it's just really hard to deal with. Like, he can deal with speed. You can deal with power. He can deal with, you know, guys who have really good hands. Like, he to me is just, again, not quite in that Penn A, Sewell tier. He, to me, was kind of one of one when it came to the offensive tackles here. But worst was as close as anybody else. So I'm very comfortable getting him here. In terms of play, I would have taken him right up there with I think that they're neck and neck in terms of what I'm after. The only differentiator between them is it's one more cheap year of Seoul, even after the

extension. That's the only thing that separates them in this exercise for me. I would have been very comfortable taking worse where I took Pene Soule if this was last year and they were the same age. So he's at 18-6 this year and then he's going to get an extension. His extension is going to reset the market for tackles. I would not be surprised if it was $30 million a year, but it's still the first two cheap years of that extension.

So if you look at the Sule extension as a baseline, let's say it's 15 million in year one, 25 million a year two of the extension. You're talking a $20 million average over the next three years. That's not bad. Compared to some of the other guys we're talking about on this list, that's still a pretty good deal for one of the top three to four left tackles in the NFL, independent of contract, independent of age. So he probably would have been the next guy off my board if I had not taken Soule.

So I don't mind this whatsoever. All right. I'm up now. Okay, last question. Were you picking between him and Rayshan Slater? Was that your... Is that where you were... Yeah, and it also came down to a little bit.

You know, I know Wurfs missed time two years ago, but Slater does miss more time. Generally, so I was a little bit scared of that, but... Yeah. They're both... I had them... I had... Worf's nine on my board, and I had Slater 10 on my board.

So if I were just going by my draft board, I would pick Rayshon Slater here, pop him on the left side, and have Pene Soule and Rayshan Slater and just profit for the rest of time. I'm not going to do that because I like some versatility and I like distributing my resources here. I think I have to do this because I think I've taken him every single year as part of this exercise. I'm taking AJ Brown.

Okay. Okay. And so here's the reason. You know, one. Protests on me for AJ Brown, baby. He's still, you get ages 27, 28, and 29 seasons. So he's still relatively young. And similar to the conversation we have,

about Miles Garrett. I'm not responsible for what the rest of the contract looks like in all the void years after these three years are over. So all I'm dealing with right now is 12 million, 17.5 million and 23 million. That's an $18 million average over the next three years. So that's cheaper than what you're going to get with Jefferson, Chase, a lot of the other extension ready guys that we've talked about here. So I feel just fine with that. If you look at what AJ Brown has been over the last two years in Philly. The fact that when given opportunities, he's still a yak monster. He's still incredible with the ball in his hands. And somehow over the last two years, he's turned into like one of the best ball-winning vertical threats in the entire NFL,

even though we didn't know he could do that, I'm just fine. Even if he's a tiny bit older than some of these other guys and a couple of the other guys I was considering a little bit later, I just think that he is still one of the best football players in the NFL and the price and the age are still good enough for me to feel okay about taking him here.

The logic, all the logic needs to be at this range of the draft for me is, is he a sick player or not? AJ Brown's a sick player. So if we're getting to the reason why I've taken him every single year, that is the reason. It is because I still think that he is one of the sickest players in the league.

And aesthetics is a big tie-brose. for me. And his overall aesthetic as an NFL player, the way he plays, the way he looks, the way he looks in the uniform, all of those things. Not the most important considerations here, but at least we're taking into account when you're trying

to differentiate between these guys. You're building an incredible get off the bus team. I'll definitely say that's all I want, man. That's all I'm after. Listen, I was talking about culture fit earlier. It's the same thing. It's just, you know, it's a little bit of a different avenue, but it's the same idea. Yeah, there are a couple other receivers that I was thinking about.

We could talk about this when we discuss who wasn't taken. And there's one other guy that now I have to take him with my last pick because he needs to be on my team in order for me to prove a point. But I feel okay about taking AJ Brown here, even with a couple of the other receivers that are intriguing to me waiting around the bend. All right, we're at pick 12 now. Deontay, you are up. Who are you taking at 12? I was really hoping that a couple of these names would have been taken up already. So I didn't have to agonize over this so much.

I have one that's like, this is definitely a head versus heart situation for me. I'm going to go with Quinn and Williams here. I'll take Quinn and Williams here. I need some more trench help if I'm looking at my top five picks. And to me, I think that what I've seen from Quinn and Williams the last couple of years, A, obviously he merits the extension that he got, right? I don't think anybody sneezes at what he's getting paid when you look at the impact. It's already a discount.

Absolutely. It's already a discount when you look at the money. It's crazy. Absolutely. And then you look at the production for what you're going to be paying. I mean, you're getting a legit, you're getting a legit pass rushing threat from the interior and a guy that commands doubles every time in the ring game when he's locked in. And I think that he's proven himself to be, um,

enough to where I feel good about his ability to stay on the field over the next three seasons. I love him. He was right in this range on my board. He's still pretty young. You're getting ages 27, 28, and 29. And even on that extension, it's like 20-ish million each of the next two years and then 25 in year three. I'll take that every day. Look at what interior players are getting. I mean, the numbers are getting crazy when you consider the Chris Jones contract and where some of this is headed. and if you look at it on a person at basis over the last two years, the most productive interior pass rushers in the NFL in some order have been Aaron Donald, Chris Jones, and Quinn Williams,

each of the last two years. And he's 26 years old right now. So I have no problem with this whatsoever. How high was Quinn and Williams for you, Derek? He was in like the, like if I was going to end up picking it like 15 or so instead of 13 like I am with my next pick, he probably would have been in consideration. because like Deonte said, there's probably a handful of guys.

We all have at this range, just depending on how we stocked our board of like, I wish a couple of these guys were picked so I could just make the easy pick. And Quinnon would have been in that tier for me where it's like, I hope a couple other guys were gone so I could just take Quinnon. When I was looking at what might be available to me at 11 and 14, he was in consideration at 11 if A.J. Brown hadn't been there. And I absolutely would have taken him at 14 if he were still there. So the fact that he's off the board is not surprising or not legitimate to me.

All right. We're at 13 here. Last round, Derek, you're up. What do you got for me? There's like 100 different things I want to do. I want to so badly just like take a, this is what my heart wants, Flair, just to talk about somebody I think is cool.

But I don't think I'm going to do that. I hope you don't do that because that's what I want to do with my last and I'm worried it's the same guy. I will say though, I'm going to break my, I think earlier I talked about, you know, like I was approaching this as if I'm building a team.

At this point with who I'm going to take, that makes no sense. But I'm going to do it anyway because I just think he's insane. I'm going to take, I know he's kind of already expensive at this point, but I'm going to take Max Crosby.

I just think players do not play that many snaps. He plays like 100% of their snaps. And this almost goes back to the Will Anderson thing where it's like, it's a culture thing. Like a dude who can play this many snaps with that kind of motor

and be in the backfield all of the time, both in the past game and in the run game. To me, it goes a long way. purely as a pass rusher, he is freaky the way that he can bend for a guy his size. Like, he is just unbelievably explosive and unbelievably flexible. And I think that that's dangerous for almost every offensive tackle in the league to have to deal with. He's incredibly strong.

Like, if he just gets both hands into your chestplate and tries to run you back, he's probably going to be able to do it more often than not. And I think if, you know, I think if he had a little bit more help on that defensive line right now, he would, I think, even be more productive than he's been, which is crazy for a guy who's averaged about 13 sacks over the past two. these things. And then as a run defender, outside of, you know, to bring him up a third time, outside of like, Khalil Mack at his best, Max Crosby might be the best run defending edge in the league right

now. Like he is just an ass kicker, dude. You're like setting the edge, getting in the backfield. If they like spike him, you know, against zone flow, like you'll get in the backfield, like just everything you could potentially want to do with the defensive end of the run game, he can do it. And the fact that, like I said, he's doing this while playing 100% of the snaps is insane. Like, you know, Miles Garrett, I love them. I take him first overall every single time, but he plays closer to like 75% of the snaps, which is still a lot and you're affecting the game a ton. Max Carnsvius out there every single down, giving 100% every single play. It is really, really hard to find front seven players who give you that kind of value literally every single

snap. So, like I said, completely breaking my idea of I'm building a team here because I already took two other edge rushers. But I don't know, Max Crosby is just the way he plays. to me is insane. And two, this first year in his contract, you're only paying him about 13 million, which for a top five pass rusher is, that is pretty good money. And then after that, it's like 22 and 23 million. But again, that's to me not that insane for how good he is. So I'm very comfortable taking Max here. I hate to break it to you, buddy. That 13 million you're looking at was from last year. Ah, well, nevertheless, I don't care. So you're looking at 24, you're looking at 24 and a half this year, 27 and 27.

I'm just going to find with that for what he is, honestly. That is the right. That's the right price, right? Like, that's, you're totally fine with doing that. Here's my only counter. You could get Nick Bosa for the same price, and they're the same age.

Would you rather have Max Crosby or Nick Bosa for the next three years at pretty much the same price? Bosa scares me a little bit for health reasons. That's the only, that's the only, like, coin flip here, or the only, that's the wrong word, the only, like, tiebreaker here is that Bosa's health scares me a little bit. And I think it's more likely that he's going to end up

potentially slowing down at the end of this than Crosby is. But I think they're both basically the same tier player. I think that's fair. I think I'd still rather have Bosa because I think at his best, he's just like a tiny bit more terrifying to me. It's 14.6, 20.5.42 is next three. So it's like a $25.5 million average. That's about what Crosby's at over the next three years.

And a lot of these edge players that we're talking about or just in the defensive line, elite defensive line guys that we're discussing, a lot of them are in that range. I mean, Chris Jones, I don't know if he's going to get drafted. He's at $30 million essentially over the next three years with his 30, 31, 32 seasons. So there are not that many cheap, young, productive guys at those spots. So what you're paying for Crosby isn't necessarily

that much of a markup compared to some of the other guys that you could take here. All right. So that means I'm up at 14. This one's easy for me just because I was 100% going to leave this draft with him on my team in some way, shape, or form. I mentioned this with the first two guys that they were unusual and how they move, how they're built. I'm taking Dexter Lawrence. Nice.

Oh, yeah. That's a year. Nice. To me, he was close to this range for me. He was right there. I, the question for me was going to be, if Quinn and Williams and Dexter Lawrence were on the board, which one would I take? Just because Quinn and Williams has been so productive as a pass rusher. but for me the tiebreaker would have been,

even if both of them were there. What Dexter Lawrence gives you as a pass rushing nose tackle is insane. There is no one else in the league like him. So the fact that you can drop him as in as a one technique and he can rack up 65 pressures a year for you

while playing 700 to 800 snaps at like 350 pounds and I can stick him next to a 295 pound undersized three technique and feel totally fine about the construction of my defensive line, that's why he gets the nod for me. Just because what you can do with him is so different than what you can do with even the rest of these truly elite interior players that that's what I want. I just want somebody who's different than everybody else.

And even if he's expensive and even if he's on an extension, I still don't think that precludes me from taking him here compared to some of the other guys available. no argument with that not hardening it there. To me it's almost the same logic as Hamilton obviously very different positions. Like I said, outside of edge and corner, you're not finding that many guys who like change

the structure and how you're allowed to play defense. Dexter is one of those dudes, man. Like they're just like you said, 350 pounds should not move the way that he's allowed to move. And he can just do things that other nose tackles really have like almost never been able to do. Like, you know, for a minute there, Vita Vaya was like incredible, right?

but he wasn't incredible in this way. Like he was a good pass rusher for a nose tackle. Dexter is just like a really good pass rusher for any defensive tackle. He's been top five in pressures among interior defensive Wyman each of the past two years. And typically with these guys, you know, they're playing what? 25 snaps a game, 30 snaps a game. He was top seven in snaps played among interior players in 2022. And he only played 16 games last year, but he averaged 44 snaps a game.

a game. That would have been good for top 15 among all interior players. He just checks every single box. The guy is unlike anybody else in the league. So I'm very happy that I was able to do this. If you look at the numbers, it's about a $22 million average over the next three years, which that's the going

rate for interior players. And if you look at the Chris Jones contract and the direction of this, that number is only going up. So I feel very about, very okay about where he sits here for the next three years. All right, Deiote. This is it, buddy. You're here at 14. What do you got? Or 15?

First thing I want to say is I still, Fred Water, Roquant Smith, all my favorite linebackers, Mika Fitzpatrick, all you guys. I still love all you guys. We'll do a best of the rest after you make this pick. So don't worry. So love all those guys. This got, this is probably a player that shouldn't be at 15. It just so happened that things worked out this way. I'm going to go ahead and take Nick Bosa. We'll take Nick Bosa here and feel good about it. it, right? Like, yes, he's been paid. But, you know, for what you're paying him, like you said, when you average out the capital is and you average out what the salaries are going to look like, you're still getting top-end pass rush production. And I'll just bank on the fact that I'll do

something to keep the guy healthy. And if we've got to load to manage, then we'll load to manage to make sure that we're able to get him to the postseason as healthy and as close to a peak form as we can possibly have him. Because what he is is a pure pass-ruster is just different, right? Like when you think about what the San Francisco defense has been, what that tree of coaches has brought to the NFL, a lot of that is built around finding edge rushers that meet the Nick Bosa profile. You don't have a lot of guys that can be four-point stance in a nine technique and still be able to go affect the game as a pass-rucker. Set edges as a run defender. The guy tears off, tears up the field better than most guys ever have at this position. And he is flexible enough to be able to bin when you need him to bin.

He knows how to play with power. You can use them on twists and stunts when you need to. They've been able to build so much of their pass rush plan around the unique talents in Nick Bosa. I have to have that on my defense. Yeah, I don't mind to mind this at all. And the fact that he got paid, obviously, it's the highest pay non-quarterback in the NFL right now,

but you still get enough cheapness over the next two years to make it worth your while, and he's still relatively young. So I don't mind this at all. He was probably right in this range for me on my board. so I totally understand that. All right, let's get to some of the best of the rest here. You mentioned Fred Warner.

Derek, how much does it pain you to not have Roquant Smith on your team as part of this exercise? I was debating so hard with my last pick. I was like, do I just take the linebacker because I want to talk about him? Because he, I'm telling, the other thing was saying earlier, I just want to talk about the players that I think are cool. Roquant is like the coolest player in the league, dude. Like, it just, they don't make linebackers, dude. Juan Smith is the coolest player in the league. They're a classic and no one else.

I love Roquan Smith, but you are the only human on this planet who would say that. It almost goes back to the Hamilton point, or like we said about Dexter Lawrence, he truly changes like the complexion of your defense because linebackers who can both like run the pole the way that he can, who can take away two or three routes and zone distributions the way that he can. But also if you call a screen, he's blowing it up 10 times out of 10 because he is faster than everybody else on the field or if you try to run perimeter, he's getting there and stopping you for a one-yard gain because he's faster than everybody on the field. They don't make him like

that, man. They just don't make him like that. Like he is what's funny too about Roquan. I love linebackers. You've come up and hit a guard. Roquan doesn't really do that. But he's so incredible at everything else that I'm willing to just, he is what he is. He's a unicorn. He's incredible. This is why it's so funny to me because you have six foot, what, 230 pounds? And that might be generous. Yeah. On a good day. And the fact that your favorite defensive player of all time might be Dante

High Tower and you also love Roquan Smith, it makes me happy because you're just an open-minded person, you know? You're not putting guys into boxes. Whoever you love, that's who you're going to love. That's totally fine. All right, Deontze, you mentioned Fred Warner. Who else pained you that you could not have them on your team? I'm thinking about all just like my favorite guys since they were in college.

So Fred, obviously, for obvious reasons, everybody knows how I feel about Fred Warner. And then that's San Diego's pride and joy. So I have an emotional investment with him. Mika Fitzpatrick is another guy that I think if I don't end up with two wide receivers, these are kind of like the players I'm thinking that I might want to go take. My big, the big swing that I was considering, and maybe I get to this guy if we have extra round or so,

would have been Christian McCaffrey and just throwing up in middle foot. I was going to ask you guys, if you guys would have taken Christian McCaffrey. He was one of my next guys off. Honestly, if I wasn't thinking about like positional value and the timing of contracts and where you are on your age trajectory and that whole thing,

I would have very easily just done up the middle finger. I'm like, you only get one chance to have a guy like Christian McCaffrey if he's on the board. There's no other guy in the league that plays that position the way that he does. And that's another guy to Derek's point when you talk about bringing in players

that are transformational. There are a lot of guys. Like I made a 30 player 32 player board of guys that are great players, but there's probably only 18 or so that you can make the argument that, like, from the day he walks in your building, your franchise is transformed. The way you think about how you want to play football is transformed, and McCaffrey is definitely on that list. I think I could say that about all the guys that I picked, which I feel pretty good about that.

We've seen, AJ Brown might be the one where it's just like really going to say about AJ Brown. I would like you to go watch the Philadelphia Eagles offense with or without AJ Brown over the last couple of years. I'd also like you to go watch the Tennessee Titans offense with and without AJ Brown over the last couple of years. I think there's a pretty good case that he's transformational. And then you think about the fact that he's played, he's basically playing two different positions as wide receivers. What he was in Tennessee isn't anything like what they're using him as in Philadelphia. And he's still one of the five years ago. I know, it's still crazy to think about.

It was funny because the first time we did this, we didn't need to have an extended A.m. Brown conversation. But the first time we did this, I took him very high, like in the top five. And I think that was after his second year in, in Tennessee. And part of it was I was at that Titans Brevens playoff game in Tennessee that one year. And watching him in that game, working against Marlon Humphrey from the slot and all like the refined nuance things that he was doing, I was like, is this guy just one of the best receivers in the league? Like, are we comfortable saying that? And so far, that's aged just fine.

So I feel pretty good about having him on my team, I think every single year we've done this. Outside of Roquan, Derek, who were the guys that really just hurt your soul that you couldn't end up drafting them? I mean, Christian McCaffrey would have been won because that was like, if I'm just like stacking again, not thinking about like contracts and stuff, I'm just thinking about like 10 players I want on my team. He makes my top 10 dude.

Like he is just, he does absolutely everything you can imagine at the running back position. And I just love watching him play. Other guys that there are a handful of guys that I would have drafted, you know, higher like, I mean, I don't know,

like T.J. Wat could have been in this range. Like guys that are very obviously good, but it would have been kind of boring to take them. But guys that I, really would have wanted to draft it would have been like Drake London like I love me a Drake London big ball winner X that's the dude I love um or honestly a couple of the corners I thought among all of those younger kind of tier two tier threeish receivers London Olivae garrett Wilson you would have taken London if you had to take it yeah and honestly I think all three

of them are like the same quality of player at that point just comes down to like which type of player do you like yeah I like the six four two 20 go in the ball go run up for people kind of guy. So that's why I would have taken London. So that was probably, that's probably the guy that pains me the most that I couldn't find a good spot to get him. Chris Jones and T.J. Watt are going to be names that I think angry chiefs and Steelers fans are going to bring up a lot.

They're 30 and they're expensive. Like very, very expensive. And with Watt specifically, I know he played all of last season, but he's been hurt over the years. He has missed games. So I think that he's probably, one of the first guys off of this list, but when you consider it's $30 million against the cap each of the next two years,

then an extension and some of those other considerations, that's what keeps them off for me. Chris Jones, same kind of deal. I mean, it's just the money I can save and the years I can save by taking a Dexter Lawrence or a Quinn and Williams over Chris Jones. That ultimately is the tiebreaker for me. We mentioned the linebackers,

we mentioned CMC. There are a lot of young tackles that didn't go that I think you can make an argument for. Ray Sean Slater, I thought I I would have taken Andrew Thomas a little bit later if I didn't end up getting Pennies Sewell. If I didn't have worse, I would have done it. That's exactly how I was with Sewell. So that was the, Thomas was one of those guys at 14, I probably would have taken.

Still a really good player. And as the tackle market explodes, his contract is going to look pretty good. And he's still very young. So him and Slater both, Christian Derisaw is cheaper for longer than a lot of these guys. I don't think he deserves to make this list, but he's going to be a really good value still over the next couple years. And even though he's on an extension, Milata is pretty reasonable.

Like, if you're looking for just very good left tackles that aren't super, super expensive, I thought he was worth mentioning. We talked about Aiden Hutchinson. Two other receivers outside of the top tenish guys like Wilson and Olavet from the last couple of years, I would have taken Ayyuk. If I had not gotten A.J. Brown earlier,

I love Brandon Ayuk. Even if he's going to be expensive here pretty soon, I would have been fine with that. And Derek, what do you think about CD Lamb? How far away was Lamb compared to some of the other guys you took or just your board in general? So outside of the receivers that did go in this, you know, the ones that we did draft, which I think were just what, Jefferson, Chase and Brown, right? Those were the only three.

Yeah, after those three, the only two guys I would have been willing to, you know, the expensive guys, you know, because you're going to have to pay IUCN CD. We're eye you can CD Lamb. Like they were right there in that like 15 to 20 ran. for me. I love Brandon. I. You can CD Lamb. Like C.D. Lamb, the thing about C.D. Lamb is, I think if we did this a year or two ago, I would have been like, you know, great player, but he's kind of slot only. He's a little bit limited in the way that you can use him. Just not true anymore. Like, you can throw him outside and he will, you know, maybe he's not, you know,

true Devante Adams, just go beat everybody on the outside. But like, he can very much hang as an outside receiver. And then from the slot, he's one of the most dangerous guys across the field in the entire league. So I'm very much would have been, if C.D. Lam went in the this, you know, last one or two rounds, totally fine. Dude is awesome. I'm in the same boat. I would have been comfortable taking him. I like Iyuk just a little bit more.

Just personal preference. And I've always loved Iyuk. I would have taken him first. But if you would put lamb in here, I would have no issue with it. Tyree Kill is another name. I'm sure people will mention he's 30. He's extremely expensive. Like, extremely expensive.

So that's what keeps him off for me. Two corners I'll throw out. I mentioned Stingley was on my board. He was not with you guys. I could talk myself into the upside. even if the consistency is not there. But similar to that consideration, like year-to-year consistency,

AJ Terrell is another guy that the flashes are so good, but it's just hard to bet on corners compared to other premium positions in this draft where you feel, I know what Dexter Lawrence is going to be every single game, every single year, as long as he's on the field. And I think that's just harder to do with corners. And that's why Sauce and Patrick Sartan

kind of exist in their own little tier, just because they've been so consistently good over those first couple seasons. And I do think with the corners, too, there were a couple I had in like the 2530 range, but they were all like one or two year players. And it's just like, if we do this exercise again next year,

could we be taking Devon Wetherspoon, Trent McDuffie, Brian Branch, Christian Gonzalez. Like all of these guys were like, man, I would love them on my team for what I'm paying them. But in this exercise, it's probably, I can't quite give myself all the way there. I think Witherspoon is going to be the guy that looks, we look the silliest for leaving off.

With Mike McDonald next year and considering he's cheap for a couple more years after this, I think he might be the guy that was not on this list that rises the highest if we do this again next year. And quickly, I'm glad you mentioned McDonald's. What I said about Hamilton, that dude plays from the slot, kind of. He was also more of his safety, but he hits and he plays near the line of scrimmage. You know what Devin the Witherspoon does? That man tries to kill people. And you just don't find many dudes who play from the slot that are trying to kill people.

So I think that's going to be a match made in heaven, him and McDonald. I would 100% agree. So I think that he could make a huge jump next year. The one guy that we did not talk about that I was considering, not solely because of this, but the value is so hard to ignore when you look at what other guys at the position are going to be paid. Puka Nakua makes $1 million a year for each of the next three years. And that was hard to ignore as I was building. my board. He did make my top

20 and I would have considered drafting him if some of the other receivers had been off the board. I mean, he's arguably he's in the conversation as most valuable production versus cost that we've had in the league period, you know, especially coming off of last year. And considering what Sean McA can do

with the receiver and with Poovin' Kuhler's profile, there's really no reason to believe that he can't continue to produce at a high, high level. And I just love, if we're starting from scratch, everything he can do as a blocker, like what you could do to build your offense through that guy, that is appealing to me. Well, that's the thing. It was kind of like my Will Anderson defense was you walk in and this is a dude who like sets the tone for the offense. This is like he, everybody wants to be like,

oh, well, I can't, I can't disappoint Puka, man. He's going out there throwing blocks on some BS second and eight run. Like, I've got to go. If he's playing his ass off, I've got to play my ass off. And Puga very much has that. And then even dude, some of the hits that he took over the middle of the field. Like him and Stappard are match made in heaven because Stafford will throw that

ball and Fuka will go and find it whether it costs him his life or not. And it's such a perfect pairing those two. I love watching them play. My day right now

they're up there with my favorite like receiver quarterback, just aesthetic duo like the skill sets combined. Another guy we did not

mention that I'll be curious how we talk about him after this year. But when you talk about quarterback receiver skill set marriage. Going back and watching Nico Collins over the last

couple weeks and the way he plays with Stroud, it's beautiful. Like, he's a 6-4 yak monster who is very comfortable catching the ball away from his body over the middle of the field. And he has a quarterback who leads him into space with ball placement every single time he throws

the ball to that area of the field. So those two guys, like, that's hard for me to ignore. But I think Collins is just one small step below most of the other receivers that we talked about here. I don't think that Colin doesn't, he's not in the same

conversation of guys that you can just drop inside on scene and be the same level player that you would consider the top guys that we've been talking about being

in that conversation. No tight ends, Derek. What do you think that says? Tight end is tricky because obviously the best one,

the two best theoretically are Travis Kelsey and George Kittle. They're kind of older. I mean, in Kelsey's case, definitely old. You might not even

get to the end of a three-year contract with Kelsey at this point. And then kiddell's a little bit older. It's still a great player, but still a little bit older. So I think those are the considerations. And then all the other younger guys, they're really good players,

but I just think they're not quite as complete as some of the other guys that I would just rather take it other positions that we did end up taking. Like, there are a lot of really good young, talented guys. Like Dalton Kincaid is cool. Sam Leporto is really good. Like Brock Bowers is going to be insane. but a lot of these guys don't really block

and so I think that is a consideration when you're like only picking we're only picking 15 players here that you really want to build the whole ship out of I think that when you are like axing you know a third of your game it's a tough spot to start even if guys like LaPorter are just unbelievable receivers

Laporta is a really good player I think you make an argument that Pooka is a better blocker right now it's a lot better thing so that's why I feel all right with Makua at a million dollars a year rather than LaPorta at twice as much, even though theoretically he should give you more as a blocker. Well, I think, and Derek kind of special is something that was a big thought of

mind throughout this process is guys like George Kittle, you mentioned Sam LaPorteur. When I think about positions like tight-in, think about linebacker, think about running back, think about like interior offensive line. There are a lot of guys that belong on the board because in any given year, they can be the best at their position. And you kind of want to think like, if a guy could be the best at their position by default, you should probably consider them to be one of the 15 best players in the league. but when you're talking about like you said Robert,

like guys that are going to legitimately get you multiple steps closer to a conference championship game, multiple steps closer to a Super Bowl run, those guys are not like in that conversation yet. Like there were players like, Chris Lindstrom for me is going to be on my list because I love watching them play. Quentin Nelson, you can always make an argument.

Like when he's at his best, healthy and available, that guy can wreck shot from the interior. But when we're talking about like top 15 players in the league, it's hard to say I'd rather have that. than the more dynamic playmakers or guys that you know in their prime can legitimately change everything

about what you do offensively or defensively. I love it. This is a very fun exercise. I appreciate you guys taking the time to do it with me. Also, if you guys have not listened to the quarterback version of this show,

that is available wherever you get your podcast. Let's be honest, the quarterback one's a little bit spicier than this. You don't have to really compromise when it comes to having all of the non-corterbacks in the league available to years you're picking 15 guys. It's still a fun exercise.

But with the quarterbacks, we had to make some tough decisions as you're getting outside of the top 10. So encourage you guys to go check that out. Encourage you to check out these guys and their work throughout the summer. You know, Deante's got some fun stuff coming. Derek, obviously, is still putting out plenty of wonderful content. Derek, where can people find everything that you're working on right now? Yeah, you guys can find me on Twitter at QB class. That's class with a K.

I'll be doing some features over the course of the summer for Bleacher Report, mostly kind of looking back on the draft class and stuff like that. And then over at reception, Matt Harmon's say, I'm going to be charting every NFL quarterback, or at least the ones that are expected to start again. So sorry to my guy, Desmond Ritter, I'm probably not going to get to him, but I've already started. I'm through like five NFL quarterbacks right now.

We're on Joe Burroughs, so we're doing good. We're making headway. Awesome. All right, guys, sincerely appreciate the time and sincerely appreciate all of you guys taking the time to listen. Please come back a little bit later this week. We are continuing our lingering questions series, looking back at a set of eight questions for each division in the NFL that we feel like

were unanswered by the end of last season. Bob Stern from the ticket in Dallas and formerly of the Athletic, who does a fantastic job talking about the Cowboys, who's going to join me to talk about the rest of the NFC East. That is coming your guys' way on Thursday, so please come back and check that out. In the meantime, sincerely appreciate all of you listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.