The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The AFC playoff picture takes shape, Jalen Hurts ignites the Eagles, Washington’s defense dominates, Colts, Saints, Vikings & more in our week 14 reaction

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

After a crazy week 14 in the NFL, we now have a clearer picture of which teams have a chance to make a postseason run. Could the Bills give the Chiefs a run for their money? Join The Athletic's Robert Mays and Nate Tice as they cover all the biggest headlines of the weekend, including the Colts win over the Raiders, Jalen Hurts providing the Eagles with a spark, Chase Young and the Washington defense dominating, losing faith in the Vikings, Saints talk, analyzing Aaron Rodgers and more.Get our exclusive discount to The Athletic at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight is my buddy Nate Tyson. How you doing? Good. Playoffs are bearing down and it kind of looks like it took a little bit of shape today. Whether it kind of was pretty or not, it formed some form of shape that like the playoffs are coming and what we're going to see as it takes form.

I felt the need to pay attention to Kornacki today during the pregame show. I thought he was telling me things this week that I needed to know compared to last week when it didn't seem like. Oh, man. Yeah, dropped 17%. Yeah, drop 17%. Wow. Wow. Yeah, that was tough loss. Because there wasn't as much chalk and there were things that really determined the playoff. Last week, it just felt like he was pointing to numbers. Be like, this team has a 95% chance. Like, yeah, I know, Steve. I'm looking at the same screen. You're pointing that. But the changes this week, I thought we're really interesting. So we're going to get into some of those. Talk about a telling game and a big game for Jalen Hertz and the Eagles. against the Saints. I'll chat about the Washington defense playing really well, big win for the Colts, all the other playoff implication type stuff that happened today. For what we do any of that, though?

I want to start the show by talking about the AFC playoff picture and especially the top of the AFC playoff picture because the Chiefs had a big game today against Miami and then the Sunday night game, in a lot of ways even coming into it, I was considering it the second place bowl. the team that won this game and the team that looked better, I think you probably could have an argument that they were the second best team in the AFC.

And I think I still might believe that. So as you watched the Chiefs game today and what we just saw on Sunday night, are you of the opinion as of this moment after week 14 that the bills are in the best position of all the other teams in the AFC to give the Chiefs a run? Yeah, not a lot of teams are going to be able to, I think, keep up with the chiefs. So we'll get to that in a second. Yeah.

So it's kind of the chiefs are the, the champ. I mean, literally and figuratively. And this was, yeah, it did kind of feel like the number one contender battle. Like if you watch UFC or something, they're like, hey, this is the number one spot.

So this was number one versus number two going against the sea against the guy that's, you know, undefeated. If it's Kabeb or, you know, John Jones or something like that, that's what it felt like. And I don't think anyone's on the same tier with the chiefs.

But it did. I did feel like the bills are. in that second tier. And I think they did establish themselves. Josh Allen keeps doing this stuff every week. And it's just, it's phenomenal watching him. We just keep growing even when he still has his bonehead plays.

But it's just like he is that dynamic that the bills have that, you know, frankly, watching the Steelers. It was like you see those blemishes really come to light against a quality opponent. It is seen, it's like a college team when all of a sudden you see him playing an in conference schedule.

And then you're just like, ooh, yeah, that run game didn't look good before, but now it looks real bad. You know, All those slants were cute against a bad opponent, but now against a team that knows what you're doing, those are only going for four yards.

And yeah, it looks like the bills really just maybe just took that little half step above the Steelers in my mind. I agree with you. And the reason that I say that isn't because the bills impress me tonight. I don't have a different opinion of the bills than I did before this game started. I think that we'll get into why I feel like they could have a puncher's chance against the Chiefs. But this game was more about me just really disappointed in the Steelers. And you knew that this was a performance our offense was capable of. We saw it last week against Washington.

But this is just another reminder that they don't have the firepower on that side of the ball. I mean, their offense is so dependent on these short, quick passes. And when teams are sitting on them, they have no answers. And the bills for all of their defensive shortcomings this year are still well coached. They still know if we put these guys in the right spots, we can make some stuff happen. That's Ron Johnson interception. He's just squatting on it the whole time. I mean, then they know that.

If you're, we'll play at the sticks and we will dare you to beat us another way. And the Steelers don't have that gear right now. And we made the jokes before or kind of said like Big Ben, what the Steelers are doing is just a version of what the saints are doing. Not the exact type of concepts are running, but same type of philosophy of. But in that type of offense, the quarterback has to be perfect. And when you don't have the run game that can kind of raise the bar of the whole offense, that kind of just like you can see just like all those holes. coming through. I mean, we're going to talk about probably the Saints game later, but it's you can not really

when you're getting those easy six, seven, eight yard gains are just automatic that are there. It's or the guys are dropping the ball like you literally dropping the ball. You know, they're not doing their assignments or they or what should be a play that was turning into a 20 yard game because a guy makes a guy miss after they have the ball in their hands. Now they're just getting rallied and tackled and it's, you know, they're punting. And you just see that more and more. And you see it with these. You saw it last week against Washington, and now you're seeing it this week is when the defense can match them with that firepower and they're not generating any explosive plays. At least the Saints generate some plays with the run game and other stuff that they do with play action and stuff. Saints don't do any dropback stuff.

The Saints just have a better offense in terms of design. They're putting their guys in spots. They're creating space. Even if they don't have guys necessarily that can create separation on their own or explosive players on their own, they put them in position. where they're space manufactured within the offense. And Camara is capable of breaking tackles, making plays of the ball in his hands. Michael Thomas is a really good player. Michael Thomas stayed at a couple of plays where it's like, why are you playing so far off him?

And because his forward lean is so good and he's able to do all these shifty little things, he's like a supercharged version of all the guys on the Steelers. And when you combine that with Camara, even if it's not excited and it's not this downfield, we can burn you down type of offense, they still understand how to make it work. when Breeze is in the game. 12-yard games are still chunks. 12-yard gains add up. Those aren't four-yard gains of five-yard.

It's not three yards in club dust. It's first downs they're generating. So what happened with Allen tonight and what's happening over the last couple weeks I think the game against San Francisco is similar. Those out-of-structure plays and his ability to make big plays is huge. Because against the chiefs, that is their biggest advantage. I want to go through a sequence. from the Chiefs Dolphins game from tonight.

So if you go to the Dolphins' Chiefs game, the Dolphins were living this game 10 to nothing. The Chiefs score a touchdown with 37 seconds left in the second half. It's the, or in the second quarter. It was a little throw to Kelsey that he scored a touchdown out, okay? And it's 14 to 10. You go to halftime. There was 37 seconds left when they scored that.

The 44-yard touchdown to Hill was at the 1350 mark of the 3rd. third quarter. The Hardman touched out on the punt return was at the 1248 mark of the third quarter. So we're talking three minutes of game action here and the score goes from 10 to 7 to 28 to 10 and the game is over. And they are so, it is so casual the way they can do that because you're watching that game and it's, you look up after 10 minutes of game action 30 minutes of real time and you think how did this just happen? How did this get away from the dolphins so quickly? And that's

what the chiefs are. They are so casually able to do that. And the bills are on that level. No one is. But I do think that the explosiveness and just the live arm that Alan has and the playmakers they have, if you throw John Bound back into the mix, that collection at least could maybe trade haymakers with the chiefs in a way that the Steelers can't. That's why right now I would put the bills in that spot. Maybe you could throw the Titans in there too because I think their offense is also capable of throwing those punches. But I just think you need that element to what you are.

And I think the bills have the second best version of that among all the AFC teams. You have to have an offense or at least a team that can take advantage of the small chances that the chiefs give you. Because the chiefs are always going to be, you know, Pac-Man. combeen at you. Like they're going to be the Michael Myers. Like they're going to be the Jason Voorhees. They're going to just like keep attacking and coming and coming and coming. So any time you can get him to trip or slow them or lock the door on them before you get into the other room where you can just slow and give yourself enough space because Mahomes is coming.

Like he just keeps bearing down. And if you don't have an offense that can generate touchdowns on these advantage when you can get a short field or when you can get the ball out of his hands and not have to be backed up because they got another explosive play, even if they don't score, punted in your pin in your backfield or inside your 10. And it's one of those things where the bills can take advantage of it. They do have those dice throws in them where they can hit a few sixes in a row where they just go boom, boom, boom, boom. And then they can create these chunks and make it a wave against them and put the chiefs in a hole. And that's funny is that that's the only way we're saying that you could beat the chiefs because we've seen like what a team did do that, like the Texans in the playoffs last year and it still didn't matter because that is just what they

do. It's just they're going to keep coming at you, keep coming at you, keep coming at you. Even today, like, the first pick was just totally fluky. I mean, it was. Even the second pick was totally fluky. Just he got a little out kilter. The second pick, and that's the thing. You watch that game, he threw his two interceptions in the first two drives. Then it takes a 30 yard sack. And none of it fucking matters. None of it. It's, it is amazing. You think this is the type of game. Oh, a team jumped on them. You know, these are the types of breaks. you need to beat them. And maybe Miami's offense isn't high-octane enough to stick with them,

and they're not the right team to take advantage of those sorts of breaks. But these are the type of games that most NFL teams lose. You get a couple of bad breaks, the ball bounces. The other teams weigh a couple times earlier in the game. You get into a hole and you can't catch up. That just doesn't happen with the Chiefs. So looking back on it, it's even more ridiculous than I was talking about before, because they scored, it was 10 to 7, and then they got the pick.

That was the Matthew interception. And then they went down and scored. And then in the second half, they started off. They had a completion to Clyde Edwards Hill. And then the 44-yard to Hill happens instantly. That just doesn't seem out of character for them. And no one else can do that. And it might not be interesting to say,

you know, the chiefs are just too good for anyone to beat them. But with him in the game and with their full collection of skill position players, everything else, I just don't understand how a team is going to beat them over a 60-minute span. And we haven't seen a team in a real game with all the stakes on the line do that. Because we saw in the playoffs consistently them just keep coming back, keep coming back. And they're this type of team again. It just, I don't know, man.

The team I watched today against a defense that was, I think, third in the NFL and dropback EPA per play coming into this game, they made it look easy. Mm-hmm. And we saw a team have this exact same situation happen to him. This year in Miami, the Rams, a team I love an extremely high on, they got buried in the first quarter against the Dolphins. Same thing in Miami. And guess what? That total game script was completely different.

That game felt done in the middle of the second quarter. This game never just fell out of reach. Like in the four minute mode, usually teams are still will go heavy, but you're looking to run mostly your safe passes with naked. The chiefs, like their four minute drive today was like just so perfectly them. Like they threw three passes on the drive, which is already. pretty crazy. But they're all using motions and they're softening the blitz looks that the dolphins were bringing because usually the defense is going to bring it.

Forcet, hey, create a one-on-one that we're going to win because it's going to be better than a 50-50 chance of us winning it. And so they motion these guys into empty, which is pretty crazy because the chiefs are trying to burn the clock and they're going into the empty formation. And they're just running like curl flat, just simple stuff, but they just trust that Mahomes is going to find the right read every single time and so quickly. And that's where the arm strength comes into in his arm talent because he's hitting these balls early and the ball gets out there quickly so these guys can make a play. So like C.E.H, like he splits the defenders and he gets a first down.

Dolphins have to bang their timeouts then and totally changes the game. And they really should have ended the game on fourth down when on the sprint out to Tyreek Hill with the little man beater, which was beautiful. And again, they run these these sprint outs over and over and they're so good at them because they have guys like all the speed that it's tacked with him. and Mahomes is just going to put it out on the money. I wish Tyree got it went down and bounce and that game the game would end it right then and there because it would hit the two minute drill. But they went up 10 on that drive and I'm winning by seven total. But it's just one of those things where they're just always an attack mode.

Even in four minute drill, they're passing the ball and they're confident in doing it. They did it last week when they had a sprint out too. Mahomes just finds a throw on falling backwards. I'm not falling backwards, but behind him going to his left and just seems so calm and collected. It's just ridiculous what they're doing And it's just an onslaught that they bring out every single week. I mean, everything has an answer.

And there was a play at the end of the third quarter. It was third and eight. And Miami brought pressure. It was like a zone look. They dropped two defensive linemen back into the middle of the field. And their understanding was, all right, we're going to put everybody at the sticks. Those two guys dropping into that area.

If you throw it over them, all of our guys sit in the sticks are right there. There's a very small area you can put that ball in. And he just drops back and just, like layers and feathers to throw right over both of those guys outstretched hands, right to Tyree kill, 13 yard gain, first down. I mean, it's just all, everything has an answer. And I just don't know what you do at this point. I think you just have to have the ball last and hope that you can score every single

possession with them the way that the Raiders did. I just don't know how else you can do it right now with how easy and casual they're making this look. And it's a combination of his just otherworldly ability and the offense. And this isn't a new idea, the fact that the combination of him and Reed makes them pretty much unbeatable. But I'm thinking of there was a play in the first half. They had Hill go in some sort of like orb or jet motion.

And they were going to do the shovel past the Kelsey coming across. But he faked it. And then Watkins was coming behind it. And it's like. it was all go runoff scene like one of their favorite plays they went to run it was a running back scene yes that's their version of it with the the shovel on it but yeah and it's crazy because Mahomes finds it late and so that's that and it's one that's the thing is that's supposed to be a hot answer for him not like I mean yeah and it comes in late into the picture but it's like most

quarterbacks would have tucked in and ran it there and he's like no I'm giving it to wakins because he's on fire right now even even the ball before his second interception he hits a dig to wakins for Walkins hurdle the guy. They showed the spider cam view of that and it was just so cool because you can see how Mahomes used his eyes to move the linebackers. So like that was just right behind him. He glances over. Both linebackers or intermediate defenders just shift all the way over and he hits the dick to Walkins. And it's just like, just ridiculous. It's all this stuff he does. It just makes me giddy watching them. I mean, this is a long way of saying that game that we just saw tonight is supposed to be for that number one contender spot. And I just don't know if it matters.

If they're going to get the buy, which it clearly seems like they're going to at this point, I just don't know if a team is going to be able to go on the road and beat them any of those teams in the AFC. I think that you have to have a fantastic defense and a really good offense. And even if the bill's defense had moments tonight. And I still think that their staff and they have some decent players on that side of the ball. Milano's back. They're healthier. I still just don't know if they're going to be able to do it. I think that the Josh Allen firepower aspect maybe gives them the best chance. But watching that game today, I mean, that was supposed to be a good game against that Miami defense.

And it wasn't. It was a blowout. It's a touchdown game. But if you watch that game, it's nowhere close to a touchdown game. It's a three score game for the entire way after he threw three interceptions. It's crazy. That's what's ridiculous. Like his EPA per play was still positive, even with the, even with the picks.

Like, just doesn't even matter. I mean, the guy is, obviously. a different level right now. And I think that we can talk about it all day, so we're not going to. All right. Let's get to who won the week. Just win, David. First candidate here, I think has to be Jalen Hertz, right?

Right. I did not expect that Eagles team to come out with that much of life. And that's the big thing for me. I don't think he was great as a passer. I thought he did a couple nice things. But for the most part, he did. gave them a ton of value as a runner. I mean, he was, he averaged 5.73 air yards per attempt. He had 167 yards through the air, 106 on the ground. You could see it. But his presence in that offense allowed

them to do a lot of things they couldn't do with Carson Wentz. I think he gave them more life than Wentz has given them all year. It was just, he was most more decisive with his actions. Like it was, it felt just, yeah, just when those those situations were Wentz, because not a lot of guys are getting open for him. When Wentz would just kind of start double clutching stuff and he run into the back of his guard or something like that. It just looks muddled and just a big brouha happens in the pocket. Like Hertz was going from his one read and then he was like, okay, screw it.

I'm tucking a running and ad-libbing a play or extending a play or taking it down the field with my own legs. And they ran the crap out of some zone read today. They ran every version you could think of. They ran one by three orbit motion. and they ran split backfield. They just ran every type of zone read to get think of, but it was working both and not only with Hertz running the ball,

but the Miles Sanders touchdown came on a zone read with a bubble, which they ran a bunch of times today of a one by three formation. But it's good to see Miles Sanders get north and hit it again. You know, he starts bouncing. Well, that's also, Quint Alexander tried hopping in the wrong gap on that point. Oh, I know. And he paid for it. Oh, yes, he did.

Yeah, he tried to go underneath it. Oh, that was ugly. And, and they also, they had a fourth and one. They ran a cuby power. And this is one of those things that the Eagles always want you, they leave you wanting more with their offense. So they ran these couple times, nice QB powers with, with Hertz. And they looked nice. But the fourth and one, one, there's just a free running defender right in the hole that Hertz runs through and kind of falls forward and gets the first down.

But it's one of those plays that on it, it's cover zero from the Saints. Hertz had no answers to it. So really, it was just a free runner in the hole. The Saints are expecting the guy and making a tackle. of course he doesn't he should have made the tackle. Hertz has just made a nice play on them. But this is where the Eagles leave you wanting more is they didn't have a cover zero answer on the play. There wasn't some RPO element to have it, a sprint out element he could check into.

And it's one of those things where it's that's kind of the Eagles offense right now. It's like all the good things you want to say with Hertz looking in it, they still just leave you just that one missing element that they're just making it easier on the quarterbacks. I just think that he gives you answers though. He gives you answers that Wentz didn't. that was the biggest thing. Their first third and four, there was nothing there, and he just takes off and runs.

And against this team, you easily could just play man coverage because you didn't trust anybody to get open. You weren't afraid of any one of their receivers, so you're just going to play sticky man coverage. You're going to beat him up. You're going to say, we dare you to beat us over the top.

We dare you to get open. Now, if you're going to do that on a third down, he's just going to tuck it and run. And he did that several times today. And it's just little stuff, little stuff about flipping them. math and giving them answers and options in certain situations. They had a second and 11 backed up into the shadow of their own goalpost.

They ran a little keeper readplay. He takes it off the left side, first down, gives them some breathing room. Consistently did that today, whether it was design runs, whether it was scrambles. It's not a great offense. They don't have a lot of answers just by virtue of design or whatever else, but he was giving them more just because he was mobile enough to make some stuff happen. And I think right now. They were dictating.

They're dictating something. Yes. Like they dictated the game a little bit. And that's the first time this entire season that you see the Eagles offense going like, no, no, no, no. We want to do this play because you're showing us this. And they took advantage of it. And it's kind of funny watching the Hill and, and Hurts both out there because it's both like

both coaches kind of like my first running QB like a little package. It's so true. I know this is a little my starter kit like that they're so excited to get, you know. but it's kind of funny. I mean, we have to talk about the Saints too. I mean, with that offense, you can see the blemishing is coming more and more. This is where the adage always comes. The old saying, well, more film gets out there and they learn how to solve it.

A little bit of that is true is because the Saints can't create a lot in the passing game with these two man, three man concepts. The late touchdown that you threw up to cook, you know, it was just a great play because you just dunked on them. But it's, you can see those blemishes coming up. There's only so much you can do with Taseom in the passing game. They had a third and five. They ran stick and a version of stick. And Drew Brees just knives that in there first down to get the conversion. And instead Tassum double clutches it.

And I think he takes a sack on it. And it's not a clean, clean window, but it's a window. It's what they call NFL open. And you've got to rip that throw in there because you've got to convert and move to sticks and the tight game that they had. But I don't want to take anything away from what Hertz was doing because he really did dictate the game. to really show, put a lot of juice back into the Eagles. Even little stuff. I mean, the end around they ran to Rager was off of a little two-back pistol set

where Sanders came across on the first fake and it looked like they were running a triple option the other way. And then Rager came back on the end around. And because Sanders had already gone that direction, they had a blocker that way. It just seemed like it spurred on some creativity from them that you don't normally see or haven't seen this season. But on the Saints side of it, they now have a 32% chance. to get the buy according to 538.

61% chance for the Packers now. This is a huge loss. This is a potential season swinging loss. Do you think they're going to look back on this and regret not just going a more traditional direction with James Winston and trying to figure out this Taston Hill thing? Because I think if they get even reliable, somewhat decent quarterback play in somewhat traditional quarterback play in this game,

they probably win. Yeah, I mean, this is what they wanted to do. It was they went full in ball control and just rally behind the defense. And this week, the defense could only do so much. I think now, yeah, it's easy to look back on. I think it was a good change up to throw in there for a couple weeks, especially given the schedule they had. But, I mean, shoot, not having that buy week and not be able to play into Superdome for them,

especially with Breeze's arm in that second week and you guarantee that game. I mean, hopefully they, you know, they get in the first week, obviously. but it's one of those things that they go to Lambo in January and have Breeze playing that. I mean, it's not going to be fun. Then they might as well play some then because that's what it's going to be a ball control. By the way, can with with Green Bay, Buffalo and Kansas City and all these awesome offenses, like why are they happening in those cities? Like, you know, why can we just give them a dome?

Like so we can just guarantee that we see these offenses in January. I don't know. That was just a little sidebar rant because it's just like the irony of it that we see these offenses. But then they're going to be all wearing long sleeves and frigid. have to worry about the wind. When you were watching the Eagles play today, do you think there was just a little bit more life overall

from everybody on that roster? I felt that way too. There was a play near the end of the third quarter. It was like a third and two. And they motion Goddert down to crack the end. And they ran a... Melotta came on a little arc and it was a Hertz keeper. And how long Goddard stuck with that block

and the effort that Ertz had in the same play on a block and just the way that the defense was even playing. I mean, sweat had a couple. I mean, he had that strip sack. Vinnie Curry looked like he was shot out of a cannon on a few plays.

Their front, I think, was pushing the Saints offensive line around. Fletcher Cox looked dominant in a couple stretches. It just felt like they had so much more life to them overall. And even if J. And J. If J.1 Hertz didn't look great in the box score as a passer,

I just think you have to consider what something new gave this team overall just in terms of their energy. if they can muck it up and play like early 90s buddy ryanball that's what they want they want randall kunningham back there basically and and just have a lot of fast games that they can just muck it up and create some turnovers because really their biggest weakness overall is just just passing teafats is just it's ugly i mean they struggle with just bunch sets or any stacks or any motion at all they just struggle to communicate for whatever reason so when you just have play a team that can't punish you in ways that some offenses can from those formations

those sets. It's like, okay, that's a good matchup for them. But yeah, I agree with you. I think the Eagles, just the entire team just seemed that, you know, it's not totally fair to Carson Wants and everything, but sometimes just having a guy creating plays where it used to be a sack or a bad play, it helps. It just helps to see that. It is positive reinforcement. We're all human. And that's just what happens. All right. Another candidate here for who won the week, Indianapolis Colts, it's not a huge feat to beat this Raiders team who just fired their defense coordinator after this game, which I think a lot of us could see coming. So, I mean, that win is huge for their playoff chances. 538 now has them with a 92% chance at making the playoffs at 9 and 4.

I think they had a 70% chance even going into that game with all the other things that happened over the course of the day. So the Colts are probably going to be in the playoffs. And I just thought it was a really impressive performance from their offense overall, again, against a really bad defense. But I thought Rivers played at a really high level. It was nice to see Jonathan Taylor get going. I think anybody can run against that Raiders defense right now. But I did think that this was the best version of the offense we could see from Indianapolis in a game that they desperately needed to win. Yeah. And I also think the network's pretty happy because that game finished like three hours sharp, you know, like it was three hours sharp with that game. And it was nice and tidy and there's plenty of

points to be scored. No, but it, Rivers, that's the game you want to see out of them. And maybe it was like you said, it was because of the Raiders defense, like a bit of a get right game. But it's, uh, I mean, the run, it was really good to see their run game looking like just good. Like the whole first quarter, they had some beautiful runs under center and out of the shotgun. So that was good to see because that had been my maybe of an anecdotal concern of mine was maybe that they haven't been a good run team out of the shotgun. Even on like third and extra long, they converted on a run like into two minute year. I was like third and 12. They converted on just a simple zone run.

And then they ran another one. They almost didn't get it. They ran it to Heinz. It was really funny because on that play, all I could think about was you. Because it was a third down running play into a pressure look. And Neheme Heinz was the one running the ball. It was like a play specifically designed to make you happy. It was.

If they checked into it, I'd be even happier. Like if we had like a remike point, I'd just be like, oh, this is just amazing. No, and they actually did like three of them. They had like three like third longs where they ran the ball. And they, I'd, they, we would. We just got one or two conversions. And then a third, it became like a fourth and one that they did something with. But it's that T.Y.

Hilton had a nice game. But I was going to say that no name teamness of the Colts came up again today, where the offense is just death by a million different parts hitting you. It's Pascal one week, Pittman, Doyle. Like you even seen the stats. It's one or two catches each. But each of those touches was like for like 16 or 23 yards. So it's like they're making, these guys might not get all a lot of targets or touches,

but they're making them count. And yeah, Naime Heinz, like you said, it's like, it's always going to make me happy. And he was getting some sweet runs today. They even had one,

again, in the two minute drill was like nine seconds left. They ran the ball. And this shows how well coached the Colts are too. So they ran the ball trying to, again, they're trying to do a little different look on a high leverage play, just like a third and long.

They run the ball to Heinz. He bounces it, almost scores and goes down and they banged the time out with one second. Oh, that's what I was talking about. Oh, but they're playing with fire with that one. But the thing is on that was so cool to see was the offense alignment on it.

Every single guy was just turning like going to the ref like time out time, time, time, it was like obviously the coaches before that play. They've been talking about it. Yeah. Hey, you guys all scream for time out and like Nelson's sprinting over to the ref and he's probably terrified. But yeah, no, that's, yeah, exactly. But it was just so good.

It's like they're just willing to do that. They third and 12 one, they had third 10 one. That one before to two minute like you said. It's yeah. I just love watching this Colson, especially if Rivers is not having some of those crazy plays that has cost them a couple games or earlier in the season. I thought that he was, it was a really good Philip Rivers Day.

He was second in the NFL and dropped back EPA behind Rogers today. He was hit once. And if you watch that game, it's not like there weren't people around his feet. He was just navigating in the pocket in expert ways, moving around, stepping up, just playing veteran quarterback today, putting the ball in the right places, really good trajectory on so many throws. He's always great at that. His ability to put air under the ball and shape certain throws and lead certain guys.

I mean, he played the best Philip Rivers game you could hope for today. And we'll see what happens with them in the long run against teams that aren't the Raiders. But I do think that this is the team you wanted to see. Also, before we move on, that Kenny Moore interception, one of the more ridiculous plays I've ever seen a defensive player make. And he shouldn't even be there. That's the reason he can make that play is because Carr doesn't even assume he's going to sink back into that. And going up to get that ball is just, I mean, that's swung the game. That was a huge, huge play.

This is a back and forth game for most of it, and especially up to that point. He goes up there and snags that ball, and that swing really kind of allowed the Colts to put some distance between themselves and the Raiders today. That's what you can bait quarterbacks in showing the same look over and over and over is that they're going to anticipate you doing the same thing,

and that's where you can bait him. Brock Yossin had the interception a couple weeks ago where he did the same thing. He sunk back into it just shows they know where their weakness. are and when you know when your weaknesses are, you can take advantage of them. All right. Let's get to our last candidate here. The Washington football team, who are six and seven somehow, beat the Niners 23 to 15 today without scoring an offensive touchdown and are now in first place in the NFC East. I feel like it's time we talked about this Washington defense.

Their front is awesome. To the point, like, they control that entire game. game. It was young a lot of the time, but Montez Sweat is making plays. You can tell they're extremely well coached because those guys play really hard, really technically sound. They controlled that entire game today. I mean, I was incredibly impressed with the way they pushed the 49ers around from start to finish. They're so physical and disruptive. Amazing. The entire unit is just like everyone's hitting. Like it's just a ball gets caught in the flat. It could be a linebacker. It could be a safety coming up. Could be a corner. It's just like you hear the hits. I don't know some of that's what the fans not being in there. But I mean, the whole unit,

they had four sacks, five TFLs today, forced two fumbles. But I thought this was a typo, but this is legit. They had 11 pass deflections as a unit, which is just insane numbers. That means like 11 passes were deflected by a DB or a defense alignment or a linebacker or something of that sort, which is just, I mean, that just shows that a unit that's just disrupting a lot of plays. And there's just creating havoc. They're making hard on an offense because every play is not, you know, most offensive plays is just a net neutral sometimes. It's like, okay, we didn't get this past.

It's okay. It's second and the town, whatever. But if now you have to worry about a negative play happening for you, a tip ball leading to interception, a force fumble, a TFL, it gets scary for an offense, especially when you have Nick Mullins that quarterback. Kyle Shannon, it's doing what he can, but you only can do so much. It jumped out to me because there's a lot of technical soundness on that defense, especially up front.

I mean, Carrigan, all the guys used their hands really well. DeRond Payne. Yes. Sam Mills is, Sam Mills the third is their defensive line coach.

I wanted to shout him out because you can tell those guys are just extremely well coached. When you combine that with just the crazy athleticism and ability of some of those guys, the play that Chase Young made on the fumble, the force fumble,

he played downhill, he wasn't blocked. And the reason that he could get to Jeff Wilson on that play is because of sweats penetration. So that's what you see. You see, all right, this guy did his job. Now we have this crazy athletic guy to clean stuff up.

And when you combine those things and those things start piling on top of each other, that's when you see these swinging plays. And I think that the physicality really jumped out from a couple different guys. Kevin Pierre Lewis had a sack where he just blew up Kyle Eustach coming off the edge. And that's the physicality you see. And then Young had one beyond the force fumble. I tweeted it out. He took on Eusecheck near the goal line

and Eustech tried to cut him on a kickout block. Somehow he managed to like knee him in the head to fight it off. So we didn't push him down with his hands is what you're supposed to do. That's what they teach you to do. He just need him in the face to knock him out of the way and makes the play at the line of scrimmage. And that's the thing. It's just the combination of attitude and ability.

You see it all over. over their defense. And I was incredibly impressed of the way that they play. Again, just the attitude, the energy they bring. As a unit, you can just tell they move in lockstep.

And I mean, they're a really good defense. They came into this week, third in the NFL and EPA per play. And they were every bit that good today. Mollins had a negative 20 EPA passing on the day, according to true media. He was as bad as Rogers was good.

And rewatching that game, that's exactly what it felt. like. And like the Chase Young Fumble Return TD, like they don't bring a ton of pressure in the right there though. They create five one-on-on-ones and it's like, what do you have that talent up front that they do? Like

when you have legit three edge dudes, two inside guys that can all bring it in their own ways. And they and they're not all just like the typical bendy athletic rusher that only brings down third down. It's like they're all very physical guys. So when they run these games, it's just

boom, boom, boom. They're knocking old linemen off. their sets and it just creates a lot of havoc. And when they just create rush four, like you said, the whole unit moves in lockstep is they rush forward. They create these games because they're getting penetration from all different angles where the old line can't set or you just can't chip one side, they'll force the quarterback will have to move. And that causes them, when a quarterback has to move off his spot, that causes them to be

late. A lot of times, a traditional quarterback rule and Philip Rivers is one that lives by this or Tom Brady, they can move off the spot. They check it down. they immediately look down down underneath because they're saying I'm laid on deep throws. There's no way I can get to it. So if quarterback just keeps getting moved, kept like move and move and move every time he drops back,

they're going to be laid on throws. And that's going to create these wrecking plays that they can create in the defensive backfield as well. And it's just it starts up front. And this whole team is just physical and they take the identity of what the D-Y in the front does. I'm fascinated about what they're going to look like moving forward because is sweats in year two. Chase Young is a rookie. All those other guys are, I mean,

Duran Payne and Jonathan Allen are probably going to be coming up relatively soon, but are still young. And building it around that group, this is a team that's one of the best defenses in the NFL. Landon Collins is by far the highest paid player in this defense.

He's not even playing. They have guys like Cameron Curl making plays for them. I mean, that's the most impressive thing is that they just have guys that were afterthoughts making big plays. Whether it's Cameron Curl as a rookie side.

seventh round pick or Ronald Darby who the Eagles didn't want. That's the thing that really jumps out. It's just how many guys they're having play extremely well that weren't necessarily expected to play well. When you have that young nucleus, I just think that they're capable of doing really big things here in the next couple of years. The Chase Young thing is so fun to watch because there are so many plays where you watch him and you just think, yeah, I'm sure that looks good on paper.

I'm sure when you drew that up, that was a perfect play. You're going to get it all blocked. There were so many plays where he's just doing things that he shouldn't be doing within the structure of the play. There was a zone. His sack was a zone pressure where he drops back and he adds on late and he covers like eight yards of ground in half a second. It's like, well, technically you didn't do anything wrong there as the San Francisco offense. He wasn't cheating. That guy is just on another level.

Yeah, he was even cheating. He had depth on his drop. And then he just said, oh, the left tackle turned. Okay, I'm triggering. And like you said, it was like three bounds. And he was just there, like flattening the quarterback. The tip shovel pass is the same way. It's like, oh, when you draw that up, I'm sure that looks really good until you have to play against Chase Young.

The thing that jumps out to me about him is that he doesn't look six five. And when I say that, it's because he plays so compact and his change of direction skills are so good. that if you told me how much he weighs and how tall he is, my first guess would be like 6.3, 248, not 6.5 to 68, just because he doesn't move that way. And I mean that as a compliment. Yeah. Like, Von Miller looks how much he weighs in his height. Like Von Miller, because he's, I mean, he's freaky in the bendy sense and all that. And yeah, I agree with that. Like, when Chase Young drops into coverage, it looks so good. Like, he just looks. so good.

Yeah. His drops are really pretty. He was getting depth on certain plays today. I'm just like watching him. Move, it's just nuts. I'm very excited to watch him. I will readily admit I have not,

I did not watch them up close enough coming into this game. And that's why I was so excited to go back and watch just really quickly before we did this. And every single play, you just have to watch him. He is that type of talent. And I'm very excited to continue watching them. All right. Let's have Vince ask the question here.

Not a ton of candidates this week for what the hell just happened. I mean, for the most part, it was a pretty shocking week. We probably could throw the Texans defense in there, but I don't really want to talk about the bears. Chargers threw their hat in the ring at the end of half. Yeah, the Chargers did, but then they managed to pull it out somehow. At the end of half field goal situation is just... They threw their hat in the ring. They're dating us.

I think overall that Falcons Chargers game probably is a candidate for this. but in the end it worked out fine. The one team I wanted to mention here, I'm a little disappointed in the Vikings. I'm a little disappointed. That loss today essentially gets them out of the playoffs. I think they have a 20% chance of making it now. If they had won and kept pace with the Cardinals,

it's a different conversation. They just didn't play very well today. I mean, a couple missed field goals obviously, but for the most part, the Bucks looked like a better team today. and I wasn't necessarily expecting it to be that cut and dried coming into this game. Yeah, when we were talking earlier today, it really was like when you're really excited to go see a movie and you're geared up and it's opening weekend.

This is more like middle school, Nate. But even now I just want to give out on this movie. So this is why I'm at shoe hoarding this in is like big time Jurassic World 2 vibes for me. So I was so I love the Jurassic Park Jurassic World movies. And then I was really geeked up like the first Jurassic world. I was like, okay, it's a little nostalgia ride. And I was like, okay, I can deal with this. I liked it though.

It was enjoyable. And then the second one was just such a bomb for me, like hastily put together and just had no plot. But anyways, I just wanted to give out. There's no real symbolism there. But that's the disappointment I felt with the Vikings because I was like, they're really putting it together every week. And it was just like, blah. Like just today, the missed field goals. Like whatever happens to field goal kickers in Minnesota, I don't know what it is.

Just stuff is happening. It's just like they did some nice things in a run game too. And like they had a nice play early on. There's like 21 personnel. They split out the tight end. And so it's like a spread formation with the eye out of a normal set. And they just run, you know, a lead zone like they run every version of. But it just shows the little wrinkles that they put in.

So it's like, oh, they got some good stuff. Some past game stuff. Justin Jefferson just continues to be a monster. But they just can't help themselves. They just have that bad aura around them, whether it's cousins. Like, uh, or as a Cleveland had a couple of. play is late but against games and stuff like that so that didn't that didn't help again pressure up the middle is really tough for a quarterback because you even have to move you have to turn around it can

look real ugly because the tackle's not setting for that so when the quarterback has to break in tain tackles not setting for that then you get the easy pressure yeah just a bad trickle down effect that's what just happened by i have a group text with a bunch of minnesota buddies and they just were just melting down like that as soon as that first miss go field goal happened they're just like oh no like they just could just see it that's how the whole team feels it was that sort of game I mean, the 54-yarder that he missed, that drive is just, oh, that's just a Kubiak as hell drive. It's a lot of boots, a lot of screens, dialing up the right kind of stuff, and it ends with a miss 54-yard field goal. So the Vikings probably aren't going to make the playoffs now, which not surprising, it's during the way they started their season.

Where are you on the Vikings overall? Because it's not as if this is an upstart team that, oh, man, like, they really built some momentum and what can they be next year with all these. young players. They have some young players. You know, you think about Jefferson and Cleveland and Gladney and Dancler and it's nice. This draft could be transformative for them potentially. But for the most part, this is a team up against the cap. I mean, they have a lot of expensive contracts still on that roster, even with the purge they had this spring. So do you think as constructed with some development from that, this rookie class and from some of their younger players, this team and this core has a chance to be a contender, this cousins, Harrison Smith, Eric Kendrick's, Anthony Barr group.

Do you think they can get there over the next two years? Or do you feel like they misstepped trying to do this half rebuild, half keep everything together thing that they did coming into this season? I still think they're okay. I still think that the Justin Jefferson pick helps a lot. Like hitting on that really changes a lot. But the question marks are getting kind of annoying now. They still always have question marks up front, like up in the old line. Like you got to start hitting on those picks or at least develop somebody.

And it just keeps happening year after year after year that keeps being the blemish with this team. And I want to say REEF has like a $13 million cap hit next year and they can't get out of it for some reason. I mean, I don't know if they restructured it. I think they might have restructured it to get his cap it down this year. And there's enough to have money on there where they couldn't. just cut him. So he's going to be making a lot of money, but there's no clear paths of them getting better at that spot necessarily. So it's that type of stuff. And I think that there are lines could be better next year, another year of Cleveland, everything else. I think Brian O'Neill is actually a pretty

decent player. But I agree. But just like, that's kind of my question, though. It's if the line just isn't quite good enough and if cousins just isn't quite good enough, are they just going to consistently be this team where you and I talk ourselves into them a little? little bit because we like Kubiak and we think Zimmer's a good coach, which they are. They're top 12 teams on offense and defense again this year. It's a very similar type of team to the one that we've seen them be before. They just dug themselves into such a deep hole that they're not quite on that playoff cusp like we're used to them being. So I just don't know what they are. I just think they might just be this. And that's kind of why it's a little bit disappointing.

It's that 10 and 6 cap. Like that's their cap. It's just they just that 10 and 6 ceiling that they just always going to fight. And that's when you start getting into it. And I don't know how to get him past that because I like Kirk Cousins. I think Kirk Cousins is okay. I think you can win with Kirk Cousins. You can ride him to like ride him to a championship. Like he can get hot for you. That's like you can easily see him putting together four games for you. Like it's not like you have to squint and go, I don't know. But as he can do it every week right now, that's that's some of the things. But also what they put around him. They did it like a little mini reset in the middle of the season. Like they traded for Yonik and then they got rid of Yonik.

And then they kind of just have done some retooling. And it seems like they're like, okay, this is what we are. Let's take this shape and see what we can get out of it. And what we're seeing this last couple of weeks. That's what it is. I think they're using that almost as a assessment period. You know, they're like, hey, if we make the playoffs great, but if not, okay, what do we need to retool? I just think they have more question marks.

Then we think they've been honestly, they've been contending since like my freaking dad was a player there in like 1999. I don't ever remember the fight like maybe my dad's first year as I had coach but it was like they've just been like constantly on contendership every single year. It just always feels like a retooling as opposed to rebuilding. But that's so you talk about the Yonick thing and that's kind of what I'm getting at because I had the same thought. It's like oh they traded him and they'll get to Neil Hunter back next season and they have no past rush and I with no talent up front. You know, can they add a couple pieces here and there? But they're capped out. It's not as if oh we traded Yonick and Gakker. way away and now we'll be able to use those resources elsewhere next year, all that other stuff, and the cap going down as a role in this, but it still just doesn't feel like there's a clear path to them being a lot better than they are right now. Maybe that's just me letting today influence my thinking a little bit more than it should, but that's just kind of where I'm at with them. It's like, oh, they're exciting and they're fun, and I like the way they play and I like the way they're constructed, but I just feel like there's a ceiling on what this roster is and with this

core is even with a coaching staff that I happen to like a lot. Yeah, they're like a quality pitcher with no real fastball. Like that's just you just, ah, you just want more out of them always. And yeah, and Cousin's kind of like that too. It's like he kind of capsulates the whole team. It's like, when they're on, they're on. And it's like, wow, this is fun to watch off. It's well coached both sides of the ball and they're just clicking. And when they're off, it just looks ugly. It looks like a defense because they bring wacky stuff, wacky pressures and they are pretty aggressive and stuff like that so it can look really bad when they're getting gashed up by an offense that's protecting like you know like tampa was today and yeah it's just one of those he had all day today and that's

when you could just see it's it's this is the negative what the Vikings want to do and yeah i think they need some more retooling and i think you say that every year about the Vikings and again we're going to be talking to ourselves and do it on the podcast in august i know i know it's going to be august it's going to be august 15th i'm like man the Vikings look pretty good so where are you at with Tampa Bay after today. I don't know what to make of them either. I think week two we talked about them and I like that's how I feel about them still. It's just with Antonio Brown now. Like that's that's just, it's just a different iteration of it. When Brady can get protected, they look amazing and their defense is aggressive and when they can win a man to man for 30 snaps a game, 40 snaps a game, great. Like they

look like this and they can compete with anybody. When that offense that puts a lot on its players to make plays doesn't they don't do that or there's pressure happening that you know with that aggressive offense with not a lot of help in protection they can look bad but that's exactly what I thought coming into the season it's exactly what I thought Brady is not going to look good when he has hands in his face no real quarterback does and but when he does have time they're going to look great and they would I would say they look good today I wouldn't say they look great but they did enough nice things he did a lot of stepping up in the pocket today I mean you could just tell that he had a lot of time to work the scotie miller play felt like it took 20 seconds to unfold and

They said he's the third read on that play on a post, and I just really want to see that progression drawing because if your post is your third read, I really want to know what arms can get there. But sure. Let's get to this week's Would You Rather? This is a conversation I've been having a lot with people and just talking about the next coaching cycle. And after the performances, both of those guys had today and both of them have had all season, I want to ask you about two offensive coaches. They're going to be hothead coaching candidates over the next. couple months here. If you were hiring a head coach, and I don't want to graft it on to a specific offense or specific group roster, things like that, because that's just a little bit too difficult. So just in a vacuum, if you were starting from scratch and you were hiring a head coach, would you rather have Brian Daible or Arthur Smith?

What's good? With both of them ease my concerns that I had with them this offseason. Dave will, you know, I always thought he was creative, but inconsistent and some of that could have been the quarterback. And, you know, there was sound with some of their stuff, but a lot of it just seemed like, hey, this is a cool play. Let's try. Let's see how we can do. But at least it was aggressive and everything. And the improvement that speaks with him is all the improvement we see with Josh Allen. And it's, you know, it's, we could say, oh, the improvements with the offense is improvements because of the player of Josh Allen, but also the development has to go on the coach a little bit, too.

But having said all that, I, I just like what Arthur Smith's doing. That's probably who I would go with if I was looking at one of these two as a coach, as a head coach. I think with Smith, I wanted to see my concern with him was I want to see this offense sustained when it was a bad game script like we saw in the playoffs. Even the games they won against the Patriots and the Ravens, that pass the game wasn't getting 100 yards. So I wanted to see how, what their next step was. And this season has really alleviated a lot of those concerns seeing that offense.

You know, they've had bad games where they went down double digits and they just stuck with what they had and also seeing the tweaks, and we've talked about before, but all the tweaks that they're adding to this offense and throwing the outroutes on these inbreakers that they run over and over and over, seeing the emergence of Corey Davis. And that's not by mistake. It means that they're showing faith in these guys and developing them because Corey Davis is ascending in this, you know, fourth year, is it? And also just seeing the tight ends being utilized. They, and also just the realization, the self-awareness of knowing what they are. They know, and I think, you know, a lot of good coaches do this, but I think with Arthur Smith,

we have Derek Henry, what's used him as an asset and what's build around him. We have Ryan Tana Hill. He's good at these things. He's big. He's strong. He's willing to take shots. I mean, literally taking shots to his shops and also taking shots downfield,

but also being able to use his legs. Okay, let's make our whole offense that. Let's make it a run, sound, run game where he can, Derek Henry can play his foot or bounce it outside like he does. I think a lot of people have the misconception with Derek Henry that he's a power runner. He runs kind of finessey. But it's everyone bounces off of them. So it just, you know, but he's not a gap scheme runner.

He's a zone runner. Arthur Smith realized that. That's just good coaching. That's self-awareness of knowing what your players are. I just like that. I just like that utilization of players and their strengths. Not both of these coaches do it. I just like what Arthur Smith has done because I think some of it is with slightly lesser parts.

Again, he did, he does have AJ Brown. So that also helps as well. I'm torn because I like both. of them a lot. And Arthur Smith speaks my language. Tannahill is using play action on 36.7% of his passes. He's averaging 10 yards per attempt on play action this year. And that's my favorite type of offense.

I've always said it. I love that Kubiak-Shannahen influenced zone blocking, boots, play action shots. That's how I would build it from scratch if I could. And that's why Arthur Smith really does speak to my value system as a football person. But I just love what Brian Dable has done because he doesn't have, I don't want to call it a crutch, but he doesn't have that one schematic pillar to lean on. I think he's shown a little bit more flexibility and just being able to pluck different sorts of things based on what his players do well over the last couple years.

So I think the question, honestly, is this. do you care more about a system that consistently props up quarterbacks in the way that Arthur Smith's system would? Or do you want a coach who has built his quarterback into something more? That to me is the bigger question. And I think that's the slight difference between them. And that's why I would tend to go with Dayball because the development has been with the player itself. not with the system itself that's propped up the player. Does that make sense? It does. And you're right. This is so tough for me. I don't think there's a wrong answer here.

I really like both of these coaches because you can commend them. Like I think with Davel, I get what you're saying. It's a little bit of everything where it's not just like, hey, this is just the one thing we utilize and this is just our core system. And I think with Davel, what he does well, they use like Cole Beasley read routes like from freaking run and shoot days. SMU days. Like that stuff is rare, especially at NFL because you don't get the time to do that. Okay, he's good at him. Let's use them.

And let's get first downs with him. Josh Allen could do a lot of crazy things. Okay, let's use him. Let's put Stefan Diggs on routes like that he can utilize his route running ability. Let's use John Brown on these intermediate speeds to routes. Again, it's just like with Arthur Smith utilizing his players in the right way. Now I'm like changing my answer, it sounds like. But it's like, but what table does the same things.

That's why I know both these guys are great. They're really good coaches and are fun to watch. But yeah, that's a great point too. I just, I like, I like guys that are just adaptable. It's, I like guys. And that's kind of what I'm saying is that even if Smith has shown an ability to be flexible within this system, he's still very reliant on the system. And I don't know what that system looks like without A.J. Brown and Derek Henry, because Brown, Brown's presence is really important for them to feel. throw some of those curve balls that complement the fastball.

Because they do a lot of those shot plays, but when they need something that's just a yak play and they need something in the quick game or whatever, Brown manufactures so many big plays for them, I don't know how many answers they'd be able to find in that area without a guy like that. I don't know what this offense would look like without Derek Brown, without Derek Henry at the center of it. And that may be an unfair criticism because I think that for the most part, Again, I love the system and what it's done consistently for the last 20 years across all teams that have used it well.

But I just think that I trust Daible to find more answers right now than I do with Arthur Smith, just because I haven't seen enough different versions of it. That's what I'll say. Yeah, like, Daible, you can see it already. Smith, you'd have to project that he'd be able to adapt. Yeah, no, that's a totally valid answer, I think. Again, again, I'm going to say for like the third time, but it's like both of these guys. are doing really good stuff.

Like they, week and week out, it's really fun to watch these two offenses utilizing their players in fun ways because there's a lot of coaches out there that don't do that.

The Titans are third in the NFL, came into this game, third in the NFL in EPA per play on offense. The bills came in fourth in EPA per play on offense. Both of them are using play action of more than 33% of their dropbacks.

I mean, these are two offenses that have done an extremely good job of putting their players in positions to succeed. We've seen it all year. All right. Before we get out of here, Let's get to this week's secret sauce.

Not today, my good man. I'm feeling saucy. So I wanted to talk about a topic that I've discussed and thought about a lot in my life. And that is Aaron Rogers' back shoulder throws. Because they were such a staple of that offense when Jordy Nelson was there. And I've talked to Aaron and Jordy Nelson about this in the past, just the chemistry they developed in that area and what it was like. You know, Jordan Nelson told me that they were so consistent. so good at it that people thought they were calling back shoulder throws in the huddle,

which is not how it works. You don't call it. So I wanted to talk to you not only about what goes into the chemistry, but the receiver and a quarterback in those throws, but trajectory on those throws. The first touchdown to Devante Adams today was a back shoulder throw, even though it was a 55-yard touchdown, so it was a weird kind of back-shoulder throw. But, and the MVS touchdown was also one. And when he throws them, he puts them on a line.

Just bullets them in there. So what is the thought process in terms of when you use them, what sort of arc you want on them, the way that you throw them? Just walk me through the thought process attached to those sorts of plays. Yeah. I mean, these guys, the ones that actually do it, obviously can give you the best answers. But it's such a feel and timing thing. It really is trust in anticipation because it's taught a lot of times is these guys who were told to give eyes at a certain yardage. saying, hey, at 12 yards, at 15 yards, at 18 yards, whatever, it may be nine yards.

Hey, give ice to the quarterback. And then, like, and then go from there, you know, see if the ball's getting launched over, see him it's a back shoulder throw. And I think so much with that, it's a great point that you say it's like a laser out there because it's an odd thing. It's an anticipation throw that you throw hard. So it's not, yeah. So it's this weird conundrum that it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's like an oxymoron.

That you so you're whipping it to a spot. But then the spot turns in like, okay, say I'm whipping in a curl route. I'm throwing to an area because that's why sometimes if a receiver is too loose on a curl, interceptions will happen because quarterback's thrown to a spot and then the receiver's supposed to come right back at you. So you can see the receiver coming right back at you. When you throw these balls, you're trying to almost stripe the helmet, like stripe the back of their helmet because you're saying they're going to give it.

Yeah, because they're going to give me the back of his eye or he's going to turn to give me eyes to catch this ball literally as a ball is in midair because that's how the only way you can defend it. If you give if you give eyes too early, the DBs, good DBs are going to just go. okay, all right, I'm just going to arm bar you and you're done. So it's that weird. It's hard, it's hard to coach up. It's one of those things that you only can coach up by a hell, a shit ton of reps, really,

just a ton and ton of reps and just a feel thing. And really it's one of those things that it's like the good players can do it and the bad players can't. It's like just, it's one of those uncoachable things. But when you do want to, and it's really fun to see like Derek Carr had a great chemistry with Michael Crabtree on these. And so just certain guys have. that feel where they're like he's going to give me eyes at this certain depth when I hit this

certain drop and I know he likes the ball in this spot. My real fun little changeup off of these is especially in the red zone when the dbs or the corners starts anticipating the back shoulder throw. So they kind of soften like they kind of slow down before the receiver slows down. And then the quarterback just throws like a little little lob ball into the back corner of the end zone. You know, then court receiver just toe taps in. Those are just changeups off of it. And that's, that's the faith that these guys have. They say, give me eyes and I'll lead you open. I'll throw you open and you make a play, whether it be a box out, like you're just a post offensive player down there, or is it just going to be a high ball, is it going to be a low ball?

I think it's just a rep thing. And the best guys are ones that can get to play together. And guess who are the ones that get to play together for a long time, the good players? So that's why we see the good players do it more often than not. That's why I thought it was notable because Rogers did it when he was comfortable. When he was comfortable in an offense, that's when he would do it a lot. and I just think that it's a sign of him being comfortable in this offense this year. You can just tell he's so much more.

He's going back to signing stuff. Like he's signing the one-man routes. He hit the 400 touchdown he had to Adams last week was a package play. It was like a one-man bubble, which should not have been thrown. But that's like you're saying he's feeling comfortable, just like you're saying he should not have thrown it, but he was like, no, Adams is going to make play. Guess what? He got him his 400 touchdown.

And it wasn't necessarily a back-shoulder throw, but it was still that same idea. the first touchdown that Rivers threw to Hilton today was that same kind of thing. Defender's back was turned. He bullets it in there. I think that's the things that you see with veteran quarterbacks is just that understanding of I know exactly how much air to put on this ball or to not put on this ball. And you saw it with Rogers a couple times today. And I just, it's fun watching him in this mode where he clearly trusts guys and he's clearly

trusting them to make those sorts of plays where a chemistry and a sense of time. is necessary. That's the misconception is that it's everybody gets wide open in the NFL and there's these great angles where the guy comes open clean at the end. You were always picturing like Jerry Rice on a slant, you know, coming up clean and running. Guys in the NFL have to throw receivers open. And sometimes that's throwing a guy open on an outbreaker when the, you know, the guy's coming out of the route. And sometimes that's just given a 50-50 ball where the defender has his back turn. And it's like, okay, draw a PI, fairly safe in completion unless the corner makes a freak play, which we saw twice today, of course.

Or my receiver is awesome and it just goes to make a play. And also it can build some of that chemistry that quarterback's receivers get because the receiver goes, I'm going to run hard on this freaking route. Even though I might not get it, he might throw that thing up to me and I'm going to go make a play and score a touchdown. Awesome. All right, buddy. That's all we got today.

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