The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The awards races at midseason, with Bill Barnwell

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

The best time to hand out midseason awards is one week beyond the halfway point of the season. Everybody knows this. Bill Barnwell of ESPN joins Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen to do just that on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys discuss Lamar's possible third MVP, the potential of Mike Tomlin winning his first—yes, first—Coach of the Year Award, and a whole lot more.RundownDolphins-Rams recapBears fire Shane WaldronOffensive Player of the YearDefensive Player of the YearOffensive Rookie of the YearDefensive Rookie of the YearExecutive of the YearAssistant Coach of the YearCoach of the YearMVPPleasant-est SurpriseBiggest DissapointmentStrongest Narrative ChangerHost: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Bill BarnwellExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Bill on X: @billbarnwellTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert May's really fun show for you guys today. Our old buddy Bill Barnwell from ESPN is here to do some mid-season awards, mid-season-ish. Right, we're a little bit past the halfway point, but I still think that we're in the window to do some stuff like this. Barnwell joined me and Derek to hand out some hardware halfway through the season. We also chat a little bit about Monday night football, that Rams lost, what that means, what we saw from Tua and the Dolphins offense. Shane Waldrow getting fired by the Bears. We hit that at the top of the show.

but for the most part, this was all about awards and recognizing the best players, coaches, performances from the first half of the season. So let's get to it. Joining me now for our mid-season award show, mid-season-ish, we got a little bit past the halfway point, but we're still going to do it now because we were a little bit busy last weekend with the trade deadline. First off, it's my co-host here at the Athletic Football Show. It's Derek Klauson.

Derek, how you doing, man? I'm doing good. You know, us having to push off the mid-season awards, that's not our fault. It's the NFL's fault for putting the trade. deadline where it is now them pushing it back. So I don't feel bad about this at all. Yeah, the trend that I should be on November 19th. It should be after week 11 and then we wouldn't have to worry about any of this. They should consider my programming when they figure out what the league calendar looks like. Also joining us today for our mid-season awards chatter. It's my buddy from ESPN

Bill Barnwall. Barlow, how you doing over there? Mays, I'm excited. Throwing some stuff into the ring here. Very thrilled to, you know, just share my opinions on the awards. I may have writing about this for ESPN last week. That may have helped the preparation for the show significantly, and I appreciate that. But really excited. Some I feel like very obvious and some not so obvious. So I'm really intrigued to hear what you guys think about some of these closer calls. I have like 17 honorable mentions for a couple of these. For a couple of these awards, I'm going to list off the whole league just to cover all my bases because I do think the race for them is that tight. Before we get to the awards, a couple things.

we wanted to hit at the top of the show here. Let's start with talking about Monday night football from last night. Barlow, I'm going to tee you up on this first because Derek and I think both were kind of in lockstep about how we felt about the Rams coming into this week. After getting Pooka Nakua back, getting their offensive line back, the way they played against the Vikings a couple weeks ago. It's like, all right, it feels that the Rams are coming, right? It feels like the Rams have a chance to be relevant in the NFC playoff race when they get

back to full strength. Are we going to see the type of offense we saw in 2023? Slight misstep against the Seahawks, but I was still a believer heading into this game against the dolphins. They lose last light. They're now four and five. They're a game and a half back of Arizona in the win column. How much belief did you have in this iteration of the Rams coming into this week? I was optimistic. Maybe I was optimistic as you guys, it sounds like, but certainly felt like they could beat the dolphins here because I was not optimistic about the dolphins. I was more concerned about the dolphins than I was about the Rams necessarily.

And I don't think I'm willing to write that off yet, but I think you've seen that the margin for error for this team is not as high as maybe we hoped. And there were so many moments in that game last night where the Rams would be driving and then something would go wrong. We'd have a snap go over Matthew Stafford's head from Jonah Jackson. They would have, Karen Williams get blown up for a loss of 10 yards on a TFL. They would have missteps with penalties. They step were through an interception. They had these sloppy plays. And once that happened, it felt like those drives were over. And some of them were on third downs. Like, of course, the trash was going to be over after that. But, you know, even when they were in the middle of the drive, it felt like they had these unsurvivable errors. And I think in my head,

given the talent they have, given the playmakers they have to work with, given what Matthew Stafford can do out of structure, it kind of feel like, okay, even if you get in a second and 19, it's not hopeless. You can still maybe get, you know, three points out of this. You can maybe get seven points out of this. You can continue to drive. The dolphins had a third of 19 in this game where they checked down to Rueh Mostard and got a first down and continued to drive after what they look like in a probably an unsurvivable situation. And that's the part that I think concerns. me about the Rams is just, you know, this was a roster, this was a acquisition of Matthew Stafford that was supposed to drive out of structure that was supposed to make stuff happen. And of course,

he can still do that, but it felt in last night's game that they were too sloppy, too inconsistent. The offensive line didn't play well enough. And because of that, they ended up settling for field goals, ended up settling for puns, turned the ball over. And they didn't have enough of a margin for error to overcome that. And then, of course, the Sean McVeigh, clock management at the end, which is a whole other story. We'll talk about that in a second. Derek, when you were looking at that Rams team last night, where is the gap to you between the team you expected to see and the team that was on the field? Are you solely chucking this up or mostly chucking this up to self-inflicted wounds, which, like Barmore alluded to, there were several of them? Or do you think there's something else going on here

that maybe is preventing this offense and this team from kind of fulfilling what we think they're capable of and what we've seen them do in the past? I think it's two things. I think one of it is certainly self-inflicted wounds. And look, this has been, even at his best, as a ram, this has been a feature of the Matthew Stafford Rams. Like, they just have three, four games a year where it's just like, whoa, buddy. Like, he's just missing throws that he's not supposed to miss. He's taking sacks. He shouldn't take. And what he's great, you know, 75% of the time and it doesn't matter, right? But I think we've seen him have these games where some things just kind of blow up for him. I think those games kind of come a little bit more often when the run game is not helping him

at all. The run game wasn't completely putrid in this last game, but it wasn't really helpful either. It wasn't as good as they have been for a majority of the season. So I think that's a factor. I also think with just as much as they continue to shuffle the offensive line and continue to try to work new pieces in, just trying to get consistency there is always going to be a problem. And I think they've just kind of struggled to be what they want to be up front. And I think when you have a Dolphins front that is truthfully really good. Like they have dudes like Zach Seeler's really good. Chop Robbins and he was back last night. Oh dude. Like, and And so they, yes, Calais Campbell somehow looks ageless.

So this is a defensive front that will punish you if you're a little bit uneven on the offensive line. And I think the Rams just were in this game. So I think I'm not that worried about the Rams in the sense of like, I still think they can be a good and competitive team. It's just kind of unlucky that they're in a very contested NFC as opposed to an AFC that is wide open and four and five wouldn't even matter. Yeah. Four and five still isn't great though. Well, right. No, no question.

At least in the AFC, you'd be more comfortably alive, whereas, like, in the NFC, it's like, you are closer to dead than not. Yeah. One of the biggest choices that we haven't really talked, maybe you guys talked about it. I haven't talked about it very much. And they haven't been on the field very much. And so we haven't actually seen it play out, but we saw it last night. And I think it's really interesting is the decision that the Rams made this off season, right? To move Steve Avila to center, play Jonah Jackson at guard.

and that has been entirely abandoned. It was abandoned before they got hurt earlier in the year. To me, one of the biggest choices you can make. Because John Jackson, to my knowledge, maize, I don't think he's played center at any level before he was playing. No, because Frank Ragnow was there. But I think he wanted to play center or thought that center might be his best position that Ragnow was preventing him from doing that in the Detroit.

And I actually think that's part of the reason that they were comfortable doing it is because they have seen Avila at guard. You know, it's like, all right, we won't change two spots on the offensive line. and we'll change one spot on the offensive line, which I get. The problem is, and you saw this a little bit last night, and I think a lot of people responded to the news of those guys playing and said, ooh, more talent, good. Like, the offensive line is what we thought it was going to be coming into the year,

minus Rao Havanstein. But then you saw last night that I think the dolphins did a very good job of this, they took advantage of the fact that that group has had no time together. And they had not even the fact that they've been hurt for most of the season. Jonah Jackson got hurt almost immediately after they moved him to center. So the amount of practice time we've seen for this group overall is almost non-existent. And I think you saw that last night. So you combine that with Joe No Boom losing immediately to drop Robinson on one of those sacks.

I think Anthony Weaver did an excellent job of testing the past protection rules last night, thought he called a great game for the dolphins. And then the last component of this is that I think that Matthew Stafford is still capable of throwing this shit out of the ball. Right. We saw that. Three, four big moments last night. talking to Sean McVeigh this summer, he said something funny, and I remember it because he did like a little hand gesture while he was talking about it.

He's talking about Stafford moving around in the pocket, and he was saying that even at this age, Matthew plays a lot of tennis, and you can feel that in his pocket movement. Like he has a lot of good side-to-side movement. There's an ability to maneuver that in that space. I think that is the area of his game that looks the worst right now when you compare it to what it looked like in 2023. He was one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the lead when pressured last season,

like top eight up there with the Josh Allen's, the Lamars, is everything else. Here are the quarterbacks with a worse EPA per dropback this season when pressure than Matthew Stafford. Will Levis, Spencer Rattler, Gardner, Minshoe. End of list. That's it. And so I do think that even though last night there are reasons that the past protection

was tested, that's not going to happen every single week. This has become a consistent enough thing, Derek, that I don't think some of what we saw last night is necessarily an outwire. Here's my thing with this. I definitely don't think he's playing well under pressure. And again, I think some of this just goes back to. to some of the offensive line woes and injuries and inserting guys into the lineup. I think that has a part to do with it.

But I also think sometimes this is just the price of doing business when you play against pressure like a psychopath. Like sometimes you have the 2021 year where you can do whatever you want under pressure and you go win a Super Bowl. And then sometimes you have these years where it's just you're trying to make all these tight window throws from collapsing pockets and sometimes it doesn't work out. I mean, go look at Jordan Love in Green Bay. I don't think he's a bad quarterback under pressure.

But against pressure this year, because. he plays like an insane person, his numbers don't look very good at all. And I think sometimes that's just like, again, the price is doing business when you are willing to always make the hardest throw, sometimes you just don't make a lot of them. Yeah, it invites volatility. And we know that that stat isn't necessarily consistent year to year. And this is an unfortunate down swing in that. Barnwell, the fourth and four decision for McVeigh is just one of those moments where I, with some coaches, I don't want to like reach through the TV screen and just grab them by the shirt lapels and shake them a little bit. With Sean, I just want to put my arm around and be like, buddy, why?

Like, why do we continue to do this? Like, it's everything else that you do consistently is putting your team in great positions over and over and over again. And then this late game stuff and some of the situational decision making continues to be maddening. And last night is a perfect example. Like, just play this out for three steps ahead. You probably are going to need these points eventually. Are you going to be in a better position than you are right now on fourth and four? late in the game. And I think the answer is definitively no. I just don't know how this continues to happen when it's been such a consistent problem. I was almost mad that it played out so perfectly for that argument, because I know people were going to be like, oh, well, you're just, you know,

you didn't know what's going to happen. Like, I wanted the outcome weirdly to be worse for my argument than it actually was, because it turned out exactly the way you would have expected that the dolphins move down, field, kick a field goal, render that first field goal totally irrelevant, and then the ramps have to hit like that five-leg parlay at the end where they have to kick a field goal, get an on-site kick, drive it on the field and score, hit a two-pointer, win an overtime, which is just an insane thing to pull off. And I think the tough part for me now is like we've come a long way. It's been 15 years since I was writing about coaching decisions for Grantland. And a lot of, like, I couldn't do that column now because a lot of the stuff that was. really low-hanking fruit has been mostly taken out of the game. It'd be Antonio Pierce every week. It's the only guy who'd be in there. No, well, well, you would say that, but a couple weeks

ago, the Rams played the Raiders. It was a fourth and one, a minute 40 left. There are five points. I think the Raiders were out of timeout, so a one-yard wins in the game, and Sean McVeigh punted against the Raiders. And I understand the Raiders' offense is not great. You know, I think they're probably overcorrecting for, you know, different measures of team ability. But just a decision that I think the vast majority of teams in the NFL would say, okay, we need a yard, we can get a yard to win the game. The Rams decided to punt. This week, we have the fourth and fourth stop with them. They even kick a field goal. I don't think there was really a good decision with 30 seconds left, but they kick a field goal to go down eight again in the final minute of this game. And the part

that I find so frustrating is, I know the Rams have analytics people. I know the Rams have smart people in that front office. I know they have people who know these are bad decisions, but if your coach doesn't listen to them, it doesn't matter. And for all of the incredible thing Shaw McVeigh does, it feels like it's a son of coach or or people who grew up in the coaching industry thing because Carl Shanahan doesn't do this. Oh, that's a good thought. I hadn't thought about that. Like growing up in it. Strangely, yeah, because I feel like if you grew up in a different space, you have to think about it differently. Although I will say, maybe that's a little overstated because Matt LaFleur is pretty aggressive in Green Bay. Brian Callahan has been

pretty thoughtful in Tennessee. Like, I don't know if it's just that you grew up with coaches who were telling you punt in these situations, and that that was a way to, you know, to, you felt like you were smart by actually pursuing a conservative path as opposed to being more aggressive. But it does feel like Sean McVeigh is never going to change with this stuff. And it just sucks because he's so good in so many other ways that this is like, like you can't teach so many of the things Sean McVeigh does well.

But this is the one thing you can teach. This is the one thing you can actually improve on. And he has chosen either to ignore it or doesn't trust his team in those situations. The fact they used to like the second youngest coach in the league, hopefully there's actual room and time for some of this to change the way there isn't with some of the other coaches. You know what? It's going to be easy.

He's going to leave the Rams. He's going to go into media. Then he's going to spend a year at PFF, just like Mac McCarthy did, and then he's going to be informed to make smart decisions. We've spent 12 of the minutes here talking about a team that lost this game. Part of the reason is because the dolphin season is pretty much over, right? They have to have so much ground that they have to make up. I think it's going to be difficult to get there.

I think it's probably a far-crack. for them to actually make the playoffs. What felt different last night, Derek, though, that I do wanted to point out before we move on. One, we'd mention Anthony Weaver and how great of a job he did calling that game last night. The other thing that I think was integral to the Dolphins winning that game

and does feel a little bit different about their offense. Out of structure, Tua, creating Tua, Tua making plays. Like, if this is going to be the version of Tua that we're going to get, I think I sort of have to recalibrate about what my expectations are for the Dolphins offense moving forward.

This is the player they sold the, they sold us that we were getting this offseason, right? Skinny Tuah. Yeah, Skinny Tuah. He's lost a little bit of Wade. He's going to go back to what he was at Alabama, which, like, truthfully, at Alabama, this actually was one of his best traits,

is he would have, like, three plays a game where he could get outside the pocket and it wouldn't be like Josh Allen, we're throwing at 45 yards down the field. But he'd go make a play that you were like, oh, okay, that kind of saved the drive. And he had a number of those last night, whereas really for the past, like,

other than his rookie year, he's basically never been that guy. And so for him to have that a little bit in his bag last night was good. I'm still not sure how much I believe it. Like, I think I'm going to need more than one game against the Rams defense that still leaves a lot of air in the coverage, you know, for me to believe it. But I think if he continues to do that, like, that is probably their path to somehow digging themselves out of the three and six hole that they're in. All right.

So how real is digging out of that three and six hole? Are you just being contrarian Barnwell over there? Are you thinking this is actually something that can happen? Have you seen who they play the next few weeks? I have not looked at it. They have a home games the next two weeks against the Raiders and the Patriots. They are at Green Bay. Does you see the Patriots defense?

The Patriots defense has been good for one week. They had nine sacks in that game against the Bears. They had eight sacks in their prior six games combined. Come on. I was super high in the Patriots defense. They have been very disappointing this season. I want to be very clear that I'm kidding. Packers on Thanksgiving.

That's going to be ugly in Green Bay. But then the Jets at home the following week, they're at Houston. They could go four in one of the next five games. And if they do that, then they're in the mix in the playoff picture. I think it's unlikely. But I think writing it off as totally impossible seems a little aggressive to me. Yeah, I think that's probably right. I think it's a difficult path.

And I think that there's a slim chance of them getting back into it. But considering the state of the AFC and the fact that their offense looks very capable with two aback, their defense, I think, is pretty pretty decent unit. I think a lot of this was muddled because they played against a Cardinals team that is now absolutely rolling into his first game back. So we're not really paying attention to the fact that the defense is playing pretty good football. So I'm willing to hear it even if I think that the chances of them actually pulling it off are probably pretty slim. Speaking of that Patriots defense, let's get to one more bit of news from the week. The Bears have fired offensive coordinator Shane Waldron. I've said most of what I have to say about this.

I think it had to happen. In terms of the timing, I think it had to happen. You look at that game on Sunday. It was one of like the 10 worst offensive performances in terms of EPA per play that the Bears have had in the last 10 years. And when you consider the fact that they're playing against the Patriots who might be the worst team in the league, I think you can make a serious argument, even with all the offensive line injuries. It is one of the worst Bears' offensive performances we've ever seen. And my first reaction to that game was, you can't do this for two more months with the guy you drafted number one overall.

You can't do it because then you're risking not only the end of this season, but what's going to look, what it's going to look like in 2025 and what it's going to look like moving forward. You have to do something. So I don't have a ton of faith in Thomas Brown, who just went through this in Carolina a year ago, by the way. I don't have a ton of faith in this changing in any meaningful way. But I think, Derek, doing something was a necessary step for Matt Iber Fluse and this staff, even if I think we all know how this movie ends eight weeks from now. Yeah, like you said, you can't do this for two. more months with your with your with your quarterback prospect that you drafted first overall like there's just no way and again i don't know if changing anything actually like i don't know if thomas brown is going to bring the magic cure that solves this offense like i don't think he's going to bring in two good starting guards you know like that's not what i'm after he's he's not going to fix the the biggest problem to me remains the offensive line even whatever issues that waldron had and obviously whoever they bring in now is not going to fix it but you just have to do something to inspire some degree of change and like even if it's just a matter of thinking about things a little bit differently

throughout the week, fine, that's enough. Even if it's Thomas Brown coming in and saying, hey, Caleb Williams, you can cut it loose a little bit more because if you watch Caleb, he is so tied to and anchored to the pocket in a way that he just wasn't in college. And I wonder if like, bringing, you know, getting out Walden and Thomas Brown will be like, dude, just go make the plays that we think that you can make. And maybe that's all that they need to change. So like, like you said, you just could not do this for two more months.

And I don't even really have to dig into all the Waldron of it. I think we've done that for the past month, basically. Yeah, we've had Bears for therapy every. single show for the last like six weeks. So Barnwall, I'm curious, somebody who hasn't having this discussion in this space every day for the last six weeks, because I have to talk through my feelings. How do you feel about where this all stands and what it should look like potentially moving forward? I mean, you normally hear like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic as an insult, but the chairs are all strewn on the ground. Like just putting the chairs up and

sitting in them seems like it'd be a major step in the right direction. And I think you just want to avoid further harm if you're the Chicago Bears. That's the only thing that matters. We are seeing Caleb Williams regress. I mean, we're seeing him turn down throws. We're seeing him not feel confident with his reads. We're seeing him get fixated on players. We're seeing him just have a total lack of confidence. I mean, we're seeing him basically regress to the guy he was his final year at USC, which is I'm going to, you know, play some hero ball. I'm going to get traps in the pocket. and I'm going to wait for, you know, this concept that is not going to come open to come open. And I just don't think that's smart way to play football.

I think if Thomas Brown can just streamline things, you know, maybe boot more, maybe just do some more simple stuff to cut down half the field, make Caleb's decisions easier. I think that's going to be a step in the right direction. I think you want to sort of slowly build him back up because he doesn't look at quarterback with any confidence right now. And that is a real thing. I don't think he feels comfortable pulling the trigger on stuff. And you need to have that in your arsenal to succeed. So I think just building an offense over the rest of the year,

where again, you're not going to rebuild everything from scratch. You're not going to come up with 25 new concepts. You're not going to have three new offensive linemen in the lineup. But can you just build an offense where every week Caleb Williams tries out cake? We have answers for stuff. We have answers for when teams are going to bring, you know, four guys to one side of the field. We have answers for, you know, when our past protection breaks down.

We have answers for, you know, our running game. having that stuff, I think, is going to be valuable. And you can do that, I think, with just recognizing what your player's strengths and weaknesses are. And I don't feel like the bears are getting the most out of any of their playmakers. I don't feel like they're, they've built an offense that really plays to Caleb Strings. And that's something I think you can do over the rest of the year is just, you know, I think sort of pare down stuff a bit, try to play to Caleb's strengths, try to get his confidence back up. And then by the end of the year, hopefully you have a quarterback who then, maybe for the next staff is a better position to succeed in 2025.

I have some thoughts about quarterback's situation and what quarterback situation, quote-unquote, actually means. And it's something I think I want to talk about on Friday's show because we don't necessarily have the bandwidth to talk about it today. But with the Waldron part of this, there was some clips that were being circulated online today from a podcast that you and I did Barnwell earlier this off season about the lingering questions we had about the NFC North. And I was talking about Jane Waldron and what that offense looked like in Seattle.

And in Seattle, it was this big, spread out offense with all these vertical routes from Tyler Lockett and D.K. McCaff. And I liked watching that offense because watching Gino Smith play that brand of football is objectively fun. But when you don't have a quarterback who's able to make those hero plays or is 10 years into his career and can carry that sort of weight and burden, the floor for the offense becomes drastically low. And I think that's part of what you're seeing here. And the idea that you're going to run a similar sort of offense, it's a little bit more spread out that you're going to use DJ more all these vertical routes you were duzing D.K. McCaff on. All of the things that were acceptable

in Seattle became detrimental in Chicago. And I think that's what you saw. There was no flexibility. There was no real interest in tailoring the offense correctly around the pieces or around the quarterback. And I think you saw what sort of high wire act they were playing in Seattle over the last couple years. The bears fell off the wire. And that's what it felt like over the last couple weeks. So we'll see if Thomas Brown can act as some sort of safety net here over the next eight weeks because all I want and all I care about is something to prevent this thing from going splat on the concrete. That is like the only thing that matters here before we get to the end. So we'll oversee this. We'll keep an eye on this as we move forward. But for now, I think

that's all we have to say about that. It's time for our midseason-issue awards. Before that, though, let's take a quick break. We're going to kick these off like we do most of our award shows. I've always said It's like the Oscars where we don't want to go from least important to most important. We're going to throw a couple good ones up there at the top, like the best supporting actress characters or the best supporting actress categories. Let's kick this off with Offensive Player of the Year. Barnwell, you're the guest here. I'm going to give you the honors. Who is your offensive player of the year 10 weeks into the season?

So this is the equivalent of like best supporting actor? Is that first thing? Yeah, that's always the first one at the Oscars. The previous winner always awards it. Okay. So I hate this award. Great place to start. Thank you.

I hate this award because it's dumb, right? Like the idea that you have a league where an offensive player wins MVP every single season, but doesn't always win offensive player of the year is stupid. I don't understand why it makes sense. Just make it not for quarterbacks. It'd be so much easier if that was the case. So my pick is not a quarterback. Two things.

We should have a most outstanding player award in the NFL like the Heisman Trophy, where a defensive player can potentially win it because the years where Aaron Donald and J.J. Watt would have won it. Think about the content. It would have been absolutely fucking incredible. And we should have a non-quarterback offense player of the year. And we should have alignment of the year award. We should have some sort of similar to like the Remington. Not the Remington Award, but like what's the award for interior alignment?

Isn't there? It's like the bednerick, right? Where you can, an offensive or defensive. There is an award in college football for like alignment specifically. And you can win it. And we should have one of those. That's my award rent.

It's the Outland trophy. Outland trophy. Yes. We should have one of those for the NFL. and the fact that we do not is an absolute tragedy. Okay, continue. Okay. So my offensive player of the year pick is not a quarterback.

It is Derek Henry, who to me is pretty clearly obvious choice. There has been no breakout receiver this year. Justin Jefferson's been really good, but I think you can eliminate most of the receivers. It's really Derek Henry versus St. Javier. Jers is going to make a case here in the back half. He keeps doing what he's doing. If he gets to play the Ravens every week, it's going to go a long way.

But Derek Henry and Saquan Barkley pretty clearly won two for me. Sequin has had an awesome year, but there's been a few very significant mistakes. The drop against the Falcons, the sequence where he didn't pick up a second and won, and then blew a pass block and led to a field go return for a touchdown by the Browns. Last week he fumbles, or two weeks ago, he fumbles against the jags and then slides down on a second down checkdown. I mean, he's had some moments late in games that I've either led to Eagles losses or put the Eagles in danger of losing. And as good as he's been, that's a separator for me because Derek Henry has not had moments like that. Derek Henry, to me, has been absolutely incredible.

Like, the numbers are crazy. It's almost 400 rush yards over expectations. His success rate is way above average. His first down rate is way by average. To me, I think it's pretty clearly Derek Henry. I'll be intrigued to see if you guys have any arguments against Derek Henry here. I'll say this. I think part of the reason we don't see Derek Henry making mistakes in past protection is that the Ravens don't allow him to pass protects.

It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. Or first of all, by the way. When you're killing on a first and second down, you don't need to pass protect on third down because there is no third down. Some of that I think is worth mentioning, but I'm completely with you. Derek, did you also have Derek Henry? I had Sequin Barclay, actually. And this is crazy from...

What a traitor you are. I know. All the amount of times you've talked about Derek Henry over the last like five years and now you're going to betray him in this moment. Listen, I love Derek Henry so much. much. I think the game ending runs that he has almost every week are some of the most exciting things in the league. Like you mentioned, his rush yards over expectation is like bonkers. It's going to be completely record-breaking. To me, the difference is when I watch these two, I feel like

the burden of the offense is more on Saquan Barkley. Like this Eagles team doesn't do a whole lot until Barkley has the 40-yard run where it's like, oh shit, we can move the ball now and he immediately gets them into scoring range. And he's had one of those almost every week. The burden of the offense is more on Sequin Barkley. And when their numbers are kind of as close as they are, I'm willing to push it to that. Like, I think what Sequan does for the Eagles offense and unlocks for the passing offense a little bit is like basically what Lamar Jackson is doing for Derek Henry,

if that makes sense. And Derek Henry is. The order. Yes, exactly. And Henry, too, his credit, is taking advantage of it to the fullest ability. I certainly don't want to take away from him. But I just feel like the burden is on Sequin Barclay a little bit more. He plays more of the snaps because he kind of has to.

He's a little bit less of a limited player than Henry. So I just think because of some of the versatility that Barclay brings and being a kind of unique explosive threat as both of them are, I just, I wanted to slightly give him the edge because it just, again, feels like he's a little bit more responsible for the piece of the pie here in Philly. How do you feel about that argument, Barnwell? Because I think it's very good. It's legit.

I mean, you know, how many, like, what was the, he, like, rescued them on a third and six last week where Jaila just kind of, like, got flummicks and just like, oh, you take this, like, like hot potatoed into Seekwon. And Seekwon ran so fast past Eric Kendricks that Eric Kendricks didn't even have time to react, let alone make a tackle. Like, he just, like, his head moves slowly as Sequan ran by him. Like, yes, that is something that Saekwon Barkley does that Derek Henry does not do you. And it's no disrespect to Derek Henry. Like, Seyquon Barkley absolutely is the driving force. that equals offense. And that is definitely meaningful. He's much better as a receiver. I think he's better as a pass blocker. He does as a pass block more often. He doesn't know he succeed, but he's

most of the time fine, I think, as a pass blocker. But you're absolutely right. I think that is a very fair argument for Saquan Berkeley. And again, I wouldn't be like offended if someone picks Saquan Berkeley. I think Derek Henry certainly has benefited from Lamar Jackson. I mean, I've posted some place on Twitter where you can literally see, you know, edge defenders just stopping in their tracks as Derek Henry runs by them. Like, that is a legit thing. But I do believe that. I would go with Derek Henry, but I could see the argument for Seekwon Berkeley.

I think those guys are one too. I'm going to give it to Derek Henry on a few different levels. I think that the numbers are crazy. Right. So he has 12 carries of 20 plus yards this year. No one else has more than eight. He's averaging 2.2 rush yards over expected per carry. No one else is above 1.6.

And if you think that that's a lot of big runs, which that contributes to it, right? he is fourth in the percentage of his runs that go over expectation. Almost every play, he's getting what's blocked or more in a way that like three other backs in the league are. So the consistency is remarkable. He's on pace for 20 rushing touchdowns this year, 20. With Lamar. With Lamar Jackson in the lineup.

20. That's so absurd. And this is not a good reason, but it's a reason I'm going to throw out anyway. I kind of want to give it to him in part because I feel like this is a legacy season for Derek Henry. Like this is the year, I think, that. that is fully going to solidify Derek Henry as like a folk hero in the history of football. Like he's been that in high school. He was that in college. What he did for those couple years in

Tennessee was remarkable. But the fact that this is going to be his last act, doing this for historically good Ravens offense and potentially put him into the Hall of Fame in ways that I think very few running backs are going to have a chance to do when you look at what their production looks like historically. That's kind of what pushes it over the top for me. This is it like this is the year that Derek Henry like truly cements his legacy as an NFL player. You're sure about this being his last act, buddy? Because I thought his last act might have been two years ago. It'll still be the next few years.

He's on killable. I just mean this last, this is his last stop. And like what he's doing for the Ravens is probably going to be his last act as an NFL player. And I'm very, very, very happy that it looks like this. And it's not some depressing petering out of his career, which I think some people thought it might be considering his age, the work. and everything else. But that's what's remarkable here is that like, this guy is a superhero.

Like, he's like something you wrote about in like fairy tale books. Like, it's fucking crazy the fact that he's still able to do this. Dude, wait, wait till 2026 when we have 1,200 yards, Derek Henry on the Los Angeles charges. I know, I know. Right. He scores 20 touchdowns again in that season. I honestly think that like lifetime achievement for him is to me a more compelling

argument than any of the numbers. Because again, I think some of the numbers are just like, yeah, Derek Henry rips off home runs. and now he's in the best situation to do all that. And so it kind of makes sense that the numbers are what they are. But giving him a lifetime achievement, especially where like the past two years in particular, he's had to just run straight into a brick wall in Tennessee

behind maybe the worst offensive line in football. Yeah, maybe he deserves a little hardware for his troubles. Yeah. Let's get the defensive player of the year. This one is not. I'm not. You can literally list off 20 guys. This is a very, very difficult one.

Derek, why don't you start us off here? Who did you pick and why? because I think this is going to inject and just inspire a long discussion. I have what is by far the most boring pick for this. They're all so boring. That's the problem here. The problem is the exciting one.

Like the actual fun ones are hard to justify, but might actually be accurate. I'm going to try. Yeah, the easy ones are like, like, yeah, like Miles Garrett's a perfect example. Like Miles Garrett has a really good case. And yet has he really been any better than he's been at any point over the last five years?

I don't think so. That's the thing. He is exactly who he's always been. Right now, according to NFL Pro, 21.5 pressure rate, it's the best in the NFL among like any serious pass rusher. He has seven sacked, which is not like leading the league right now, but it's still very good. It's almost won a game and it'll certainly get him to 15 or whatever by the end of the season. And then just when you watch him, he is still completely unblockable. Every time there is a, it is a pure past situation. You're like, that guy's going to be a problem. He's going to kill my quarterback. And this is not good. And so I just, it kind of came down to when there are so many options and there are, like you said, 20 guys I could make a case for. I kind of just defaulted to the guy who I think has been the best defender in the league for like three years now and still looks that way to me.

Even though he won it last year, I just, I don't care. He's still the best guy to me. It's not a bad argument. It's not an exciting argument, but it's not a bad argument. So you're going with Miles Garrett. Barnwell, who did you have? I've got Trey Hendrickson and it feels like a really bad pick. but he has 11 sacks.

The rest of the Bengals team has six. Like they have, they have, they're surprised it's that many. Yeah, it's like, like, like it's,

it's surprising it's that many. The only time they've looked competent on defense has been when Trey Andrus Finn has been taking games over. He had my single favorite snap of any player all season on defense against Thayer Munford a couple weeks ago where he, did you see the play? Oh, yeah. He just,

it's, it does it. It looks like you pulled one of us out of the stands. Yes. Yes. It looks like Derek Henry got to take a pass rush snap in high school. It is insane. He buries Thayer Monford and then I think it's Desmond Ritter, a quarterback, just buries Desmond

Ritter in like a matter of two or three seconds. What a sad sense. Just for sheer violence, it is, it is so fun. But I don't think he's been any better than any Trey Hendrickson season in the years past. He's been inconsistent. The defense is bad. The Bengals defense is not good, so it feels worth picking a guy from like. That's a point against him.

Even though it probably shouldn't be the way we wear this. Yeah. It probably shouldn't be how we'd hand out this award, but I do think that it's going to act against him when we actually have a real conversation in January. One of my sexy picks is also stuck on a bad defense. And I can't justify him. But I want to hear who your pick is based. But first let me get out of the way the arguments you can make for everybody else. I think that you can make one for Miles Garrett.

I think you can make one for T.J. Watt. We talked about T.J. Watt on the preview show last week. His actual numbers, like pressure, things like that, aren't that high, but it's because he's getting chipped on every single play. He's still impacting games in a very real way. Dexter Lawrence, like the season that Dexter Lawrence is having, Dexter Lawrence has been double-teamed on 65% of plays this year. No other interior defensive line that is above 56%. The attention he takes up and what he does when you don't put four hands on him is ridiculous.

So I think he deserves mention here. Outside of Dexter Lawrence, who's fallen off a little bit over the last few, weeks. All of those are so boring, right? We're just going to give it to the most productive edge rusher again in a year where there isn't really like a transcendent player doing something incredibly special. So that's why out of either sheer boredom or just to do something different, I'm going with Brian Branch.

I think that compared to it, I was expected, I think going to hit, compared to his peers at the position, he is impacting games in as much of an outwire way as you. do, as we've seen from like the best defensive linemen over the last few years and how they impact games. If you look at, True Media has a stat called Splash plays, which is essentially it's TFLs, it's PBOs, it's interceptions, all that stuff. And inherently, defensive linemen are going to have more opportunities to do that. Throwaways is in there, essentially just offensive plays, you snuff out.

Brian Branch is easily number one in the week in Splash plays per snap for defensive backs. It's like 15. and he's right in there with defensive linemen, linebackers, everything. What he is able to do as a run defender, as a versatile past defender in playing nickel, playing safety, and his ability to get production on the ball this year, I think that he has a very serious argument as the most outstanding defensive player in the league when you think about what he's doing compared to what other defensive backs are doing. And I think with how muddled the rest of the races, just again, to do something different,

I just wanted to mention him compared to some of the other guys. I think that's a good fun answer because we talked about, I think even maybe on last Sunday show, Brian Branch is pretty firmly like the all pro safety to me. Like I don't even think it's really close. Like maybe Jesse Bates is going to get close. But right now Branch is firmly in that category. There are at least two or three plays a game where he makes, whether it's on third down and he's driving on a crosser and he just bats it over the guy's shoulder or he makes a interception in the red zone or he gets to the perimeter in the run game. is in terms of fitting every single box as a safety and checking every role. And like, even if they

need to roll him down to play man coverage, he will. Obviously, he played a little bit of that at Alabama in his rookie year. Like, he is just, it seems crazy to say that a safety might be the defensive player of the year. But this is probably the best case that a safety has had in, I don't know how long. I mean, Tim or Hamilton. Charles Woodson year, right? Yeah, or maybe like Hamilton last year. Yeah, Hamilton last year probably had a real case too. Yeah. When I was going to say my sex pick on a bad team. Jesse Bates was that idea because you hear about teams, you know, deliberately designing stuff to avoid him. He's had big plays lading games to win games. I mean, again, is he playing significantly better than he did last year? I can't say, but he has been a phenomenal

football player just on a defense that has one of the worst pass rushes we have ever seen. I think the best defensive player on a snap-by-snap basis has been Pat Sertan. And to me, if you are looking for a cornerback and you're saying, okay, what is a perfect season for a cornerback look like. Pats for 10 is inhibiting targets at an extremely high rate. When he's being thrown at, he is a 50.1 passer rating. He has three interceptions, including a 100-yard pick six. He, according to the pro football bar, to not have a single miss tackle all season. He plays in a defense that plays man at one of the highest rates in football. Because of him. And what they did when he wasn't in the lineup is hilarious. They decided they weren't going to

play man that game. Of course not. Of course not. Why would you? The only issue is that he missed basically two games. He got hurt the first snap of the Chargers game, suffered a concussion, missed all of that game, missed the following week. If he had played every stop, he would be my clear pick as defensive player of the year. As it stands, I think it's tough to miss two games. If he misses anything more, I think he's out of it. But to me, I think snap to snap, he's been the best player in the league on defense. Brian, I love that. Similar sort of thing. He got kicked out halfway through the Packer game and he missed a game earlier. So that's also a knock against him. But that's fine. I love the shirt hand argument. He is in a league that doesn't,

have shut down corners anymore. He's the only one of one right now. I don't think Sauce is currently playing at that level. And like Jalen Ramsey is still good. He's not at that level right now. He is the only guy. We're kind of like Mays was saying, you play man coverage because you know that guy is going to just completely erase somebody and we don't have to think about it. Fun little tease here. We actually have an entire podcast coming out this weekend about the state of superstar cornerbacks in the NFL and where passer tan fits into this and why that market has unfolded in the way that has over the last couple of years. So a little special extra episode that we're going to be dropping on Saturday.

So please go listen to that if you were interested in this discussion. Let's get to our next one here. Offensive Rookie of the Year. I don't think we have to spend a ton of time on this. Like, it's Jane Daniels, right? Does anybody have any sideways arguments they want to make? I mean Brock Bowers is having a historic year for a tight end? That's the one.

I think because these are narrative awards and it's almost always going to get defaulted to the quarterback. And Jaden Daniels obviously is playing at like a historic level for a rookie quarterback. So I don't want to take that away from him. And we saw last year even when Pooka and Kukuha really broke records as a rookie receiver, it didn't matter because the quarterback who played as like the ninth best quarterback in the league, that's enough to win it. So narratively, it's going to go to Jaden Daniels and he deserves it. In terms of who is the best rookie among their peers at the position, I think it is pretty obviously Brock Bowers. He leads the league in receiving for tight ends as a rookie. Like that just does not happen.

You know, we kind of came into his, you know, as a draft prospect, we were like, you know, when everything works out, maybe he can be like George Kittle. The guy he is ahead of in receiving right now today is George Kittle. It's him and George Kittal. Like, he is everything we wanted to be already. With a trash canes they put a quarterback this year. Right. Right. Exactly. You just mentioned Desmond Ritter five minutes ago. And that was only for like a few quarters that he said to deal with that. But the other guys were Gardner-Minchu and Aden O'Connell. And the fact that, one, those guys have already trusted him so much and just throwing him the ball. But also, you just watch the way the offense is designed.

Like, they throw a lot of design stuff. They throw screens at him. Like, how many tight ends really get that many screens throw at them? It's not that many. But he's just a special, special case. Building your passing game through the tight end, Kelsey is really the only other one we've seen in recent years where he is the focal point because of what sort of talent that he is. So in the, in the dock here, you have an asterisk next to Jaden Daniels's his name.

Was that the asterisk? It's because you know he's going to get it, but you were actually going to give it to Brock powers? Yes, the asterisk is I know it's a narrative award. It'll go to the quarterback and Jane Daniels is great. But who is the best player at their position right now relative to other players? It's a good argument. You also see on scramble drills.

When the Raiders are in scramble drills, Brock Bowers is the guy they go to. And that is true for maybe Kelsey, maybe Tray McBride last year, but that is not commonly a spot for tight ends. And I think that is a real testament to how great he is at just having an innate sense of space, getting open. and then, you know, separating from players and Scramble Joe's. This is also a stupid addition to the argument. Look at what Georgia is as an offense right now this year. They are significantly worse on offense this year. Carson Beck doesn't look like a first round quarterback anymore.

Rock Bowers, Van, he makes your offense. He does a lot. All that being said, you're giving it to Jane Daniels, right? I mean, it's like, it's hard not to, yeah. Of course. He's been one of the most efficient quarterbacks in the league as a rookie. Like, this is, it's harder to have a more obvious offensive rookie. of the year season than Jaden Daniels is having right now, even when you consider what

Brock Bowers is doing, which is remarkable. A few other guys I think we're throwing out just to acknowledge what sort of seasons that they've had. Joe Alt is already a good NFL tackle as a rookie. Malik Neighbors before the concussion was absolutely destroying. It's been a little bit down since, and their quarterback play is getting increasingly bad. So I think that's going to affect his numbers. But Malik Neighbors is an incredible talent.

Brian Thomas looks awesome. Like I already love watching Brian Thomas. The idea of Brian. Thomas so smooth. And that was, when you watch, coming in, the biggest question about him was like, okay, we know the speed is there, we know the explosiveness is there. That wiggle that he has, that flexibility, is that going to result in route running productivity and in route running fluidity in the NFL?

The answer was immediately, yes. It wasn't like halfway through his rookie year. It didn't take him a year and a half to figure it out. The answer was immediately, yes. Like the best case for who Brian Thomas could be as an NFL player happened like four weeks into the season, which is very cool to see. And then the other guy I wanted to throw out because you talk about performance compared to expectations, Dominic Pony has been so good for the Niners.

The fact that he is a legitimately good NFL guard as a mid-round rookie is very impressive. So those are like the five guys I feel like are worth mentioning even we're just going to throw the award at Jaden Daniels. I would say before the injury, I think Zach Frazier would have been the discussion as well. Yeah, that phrase is another really good one. Yes. And Marvin Harrison Jr. has also been incredible this year. Yes.

He probably will not end up winning the award, but I don't know. If him and Kyler continue to play that they've played the way the last three weeks, he might have a discussion at the end. Yeah. Marvin Harrison is another good one, too. I also think that they're figuring out the right ways to use him, right? Like sticking him outside of the numbers and having him run a bunch of fades, it's probably not the best answer.

And so what we've seen from the Cardinals offense over the last couple of weeks, I think it's been really encouraging for what his production could look like over the final two months of the season. Defensive rookie of the year, feel like this is kind of similar. It might even be more clear cut than offensive rookie of the year is Barnwell, you had Jared Verse in your column last week. Is anything that's happened over the last week or so dissuaded you from picking Jared Verse? Maybe Braden Fisk is the only guy who comes up because Braden Fiske was awesome against the Seahawks. Oh man, I was like taking notes in the game and I like had to stop five times to be like, holy shit, Braden Fisk over and over again.

And Jared First had big plays as well in that game. He had the fourth and one stop where he busted through two players to stop. Kenneth Walker. Those dudes are awesome. I think Jared versus the clear pick, but Brayden Fisk was awesome as well. That has been so fun to watch them develop into kind of core players for the ramps defense. It's kind of almost like the offensive rookie year. It kind of has to be Jared Verson.

He's been awesome. I think maybe I said this on a different show, but he is just one of those guys where as a defensive end, my favorite guys to watch are the ones where I look at them and go, you should be a Baltimore Raven or you should be a new Indian patriot. Like just the long, mean, run through a tackle's face, like that type of player. And Jared Verst obviously has that, like his intensity, his strength, just how smart he is sniffing some of this stuff out. He's been incredible.

So, like, this award is almost more interesting as far as, like, who are the guys who might get close by the end? And to me, they both play in Philly. I think it's both Quignon Mitchell and Cooper DeGine. Like, I think by the end, those guys might have a case. But right now, it's pretty friendly Jaredverse. Jared Verst is tied for fifth in pressures among all players. players in the NFL this year.

He has 43 pressures, according to PFF. On a per snap basis, per football focus is a stat called pass rush productivity, which is like a rate stat. He is one spot ahead of Miles Garrett and like how often he's affecting the quarterback. And we did a show before the season, Derek, we were talking about DNA changers in the NFL, guys who were going to be dropped on to units and they were going to change the feel of that unit. And I had Jared versus one of mine. And it seems like, man, a rookie is going to come in and change the way a defense. feels, yes. Like, that's exactly what he's done for the Rams.

You watch it last night, he's getting chipped over and over and over again. Like, the dolphins are building their past protection plan around this guy who is 10 weeks into his career. And I absolutely love watching him. He just, the style that he plays with, the power that he plays with, he is already just such a fun watch and such an impactful player. So I think the Quinnion Mitchell is probably number two. Cooper Jean is going to make some ground up here over the next couple months.

but I think that Jaredverse is absolutely the answer right now. Let's get to the next one here. This is one that's a little about, I don't know if you know you did this in your column bar. I do not. Executive of the year, I think that there's also a bunch of guys that probably could make a case for this one. Who would you pick for executive of the year 10 weeks into the season? I think I would pick Adam Peters.

And I know that's going to be Jane and Daniels hype. And I don't want to double count that for Adam Peters. But I would throw in the other guys they've added. I mean, think about someone like Tyler Beautish, who has been really impressive. for them at center. They found like Noah Igbenogany is playing fine for them in the slot. A guy who's bounced around the league. Dorrance Armstrong, according to ESPN, I think pass rush win rate is in the top six for pressure rate. They go and sign Noah Brown when he gets cut by the Texans at the end of camp. And he's been good for them at receiver. He's been

solid for them. Not great, but he's been a solid number two wide receiver, which is exactly what they needed. You know, they have just found useful players on the bottoms of rosters or given guys bigger roles in Washington, and they have generally panned out and played better this year than they did in other places. He's also my pick. Derek, who did you have? Same thing. And there were one or two other guys I was maybe going to give like a shout out to, but I think it is pretty firmly Adam Peters. I mean, we didn't even mention Mike Stenner still. Like, you know, drafting him and him being what he's been this year has been truly incredible. I just think almost all the moves that they've made have, Jeremy Chin, like that's another one. Like it just seems like almost

all of the, right, for absolutely nothing. Like, like, for absolutely nothing. Like almost all of the signings that they made and even a lot of their draft picks have just worked out. Newton at defensive tackle has also been good. Like almost every move that you can think that they made this offseason has kind of worked out, which is crazy when, I mean, personally, I came into the offseason questioning a majority of these moves, maybe not the draft picks, you know, rookies are rookies and we'll see about that stuff. But a lot of the signings they made, I wasn't that excited about. And lo and behold, they're one of the best teams in the conference.

We'll talk about why they got a piece on the offense look as good as they do here when we're handing out a couple more these awards in a second. He's my pick because of exactly what you just said, Derek. Anybody else you could make a case for, there's one misstep, right? Like, Howard Roseman, the Bryce Huff contract doesn't look great. Quasido Fomenta, I like a lot of the free agent signings they had on offense. All the picks that they gave away, I think we can quibble with how that's going to work out over the next three or four years. Brad Holmes has had a rock solid year. Like, I promote so many the things that they did, the Carlton Davis trade, Terry and Arnold, even like a meek Robertson. What a meek Robertson has

given them as like a slot corner so they can move Brian Branch around DJ Reader, bringing in Kevin Zitler, like just another rock solid year from Brad Holmes. But I think there would all of that is true for Adam Peters, like the small free agent signings, the incremental things they did on the margins. And he just drafted a guy who is in the legitimate MVP conversation as a rookie as the second overall pick. That's what puts it over the top for me. You have that sort of game changing force that you dropped into it with the second overall

pick. And then even some of the other draft picks, like I've talked about this a bunch. Brandon Coleman in the third round. I'm so intrigued by Brandon Coleman. And not just what he is as a left tackle, but the plan they've had for him and just how intentional it's been. And there's just so much thought, I think, put into so many of these moves and what they wanted this roster to look like.

Adam Peters deserves so much credit for turning this thing around in one single year. And like you said, Derek, I think it is about a lot more than just Jayden Daniels. So from executive of the year to assistant coach of the year. year. I don't think you did this one either. Did you Barlowell? You just did the major ones. We're really slacking it. Yeah. I, I, you know what? I'm not going to do weird awards. I'm saving that for podcasts. Well, this is the, yeah, you have the floor, sir. So who's your assistant coach of the year? We're meat and potatoes only over at ESPN.com. Um, this was tough for me. I think I know it down to two. It's a really hard one. I felt like I was giving out too many awards to commanders, which maybe is

annoying to commanders fan. So I tried not to include Cliff, although I think Cliff has done really well. But narrowed it down to Brian Flores and Jesse Minter. And I think I went with Brian Flores just because I'm still a little nervous about the quality of quarterbacks the Chargers have played. I mean, the stuff they're getting out of players is insane. Like, Tar Heap still has been awesome at quarterback. Like, like, they're getting, they're, they're, they are a legit top three defense with Joey Bosa playing like 12% of the snaps this year. It is insane what they are doing. But Brian Flores, I mean, So much fun to watch. He's been winning them games. They have been, you know, the most entertaining

defense to watch. They're getting more out of players. They're, again, another team where they're bringing in guys and those guys are playing better and being better used when they were elsewhere. And that to me is the definition of a good coach. So I can't imagine there's a ton of arguments against Florence, but I'd like to hear what you guys think about who should win this award. He was the second person on my list, and Jesse Minter was third. So you're not going to have a lot of pushback from me. And last year, the Vikings were doing a ton of interesting stuff. but it fell off a little bit at the end of the year, and they just didn't have the horses to make it work. Now they're doing a lot of interesting things, and they're truly the best defense of the league when you look

at the metrics. Like, they are the NFL's best defense down to down. And it's, they have better talent this year. But it's not like they have superstars at every single position. The starting corners they have, they signed off the street this season, the soft season. They're like guys in their 30s that they signed for very cheap one-year deals and the fact that they've been able to build this sort of system out of those sorts of moves, I think, says so much about the job. that Brian Flores has done. So I have no issue with that whatsoever. Where did you go with this,

Derek? I considered all of those people. Certainly Brian Flores, I think I got really close to actually picking him. I ended up going with Aaron Glenn. And maybe this is me just like leading. The least surprising decision of all time. Yeah. This is me just like leaning into how much I've loved Aaron Glenn for so long. But this was a defense where I was like, I hope they can take the leap into the back end of the top 10. And I think so far this season, they've actually been closer to like a top five defense, especially pretty much everything after the Seattle game. They have certainly been that unit. And I think what really puts it over the top for me is like,

so early on a lot of it was just Aidan Hutchinson was maybe the defensive player of the year. And that was certainly helping them a lot. But I think what you're really seeing is like this secondary. And I know some of the penalties are really frustrating, especially from Terry and Arnold, but it's because of the way they play where they're playing so. It's a cost of doing business. Yes. You're playing so tight to routes.

You're playing so much man coverage. You're playing so much press that like you're just up in everyone's face, eventually you're going to get penalties, but I just think the way that they pass stuff off. Like, if you watch the way they play bunches, like Carlton Davis is always driving on stuff the way that he's supposed to. It's always distributed perfectly. You have Brian Branch taking another step where he looks like the best safety in the league. Kirby Joseph is like picking off a million passes. Terry and Arnold, again, I know the penalties are frustrating, but like down to down, he's actually a tight coverage player. And Aaron Glenn, he's a former defensive back. When he was

with the Saints, I swear he got better play out of just random guys off the street than you were ever supposed to get. And I think you're seeing that development on the back end currently. And so for them to get what they've gotten out of this secondary, you add some of the play they're getting up from the guys up front where a lot of them are playing some of the best ball they've ever played. Like Aline McNeil. Aidan Hutchinson. You've got so many injuries. Right. And they're still good. And they've had to deal with up front. And they've still been one of the best defenses in the league. Yes. That's exactly it. So again, I know this is probably at least like 30% me just leaning on the guy. I kind of wanted to win the award coming in. But I really do think

his unit and the job that he's done has been pretty exceptional. Yeah, he was on my list. I had him and Ben Johnson. You could easily get this award to Ben Johnson if you wanted to. But at this point, Ben Johnson has been a good assistant coach for so long. We almost never have this in the league where you can be a good offensive coordinator solely for long enough for people to get fatigued of how good you are as an offensive coordinator, but that's actually where Ben Johnson has arrived to. So I had both of those guys, Brian Flores, Jesse Minter. Coaching is about getting the most with the least, right? It's about how much of a multiplier you are for the guys on your side of the ball. And I think Jesse Binter has as good an argument as anybody for what he has

done with that group. You mentioned Tarheap still Bartwell. Cam Hart is playing good football for them. What Ogbonia is doing and Puna Ford and just the linebacking core, the communication on the back end of that defense is just absolutely phenomenal. You can tell how well they are coached and I really enjoy watching them play. A couple other guys I think we're throwing out, Todd Monkin and what that Ravens offense looks like this year. I think Jeff Halfley is doing a really good job in Green Bay as they've kind of figured out and sorted through some of the issues that they're working with.

What Drew Petting is doing in Arizona with that offense right now is very impressive. All of that being said, I'm still giving it to Cliff Kingsbury. Oh, I thought you were, I thought you were naming someone else. No, I'm still going with Cliff Kingsbury. I just, and maybe it's because I've watched so much of that Washington offense that there's just so many moments in my head about like, oh, that's good shit, man. Oh, that's good shit. Like, it happens so often because I think I'm just drawn to watching that unit because of how many interesting things that they're doing. And if this, if coaching is about getting the most with the least and it's about elevating the players that you have, how many people thought that Washington's supporting cast coming into the season was the worst one in the league?

A lot of people. Certainly the offensive line I thought would be bottom five. And even with McClorin, what else do they have at receiver? Right? They brought in fucking Zach Ertz and Austin Echler. Like those are the moves that they made on offense. And Brandon Thorne, who does a very good job kind of moderate offensive line play in the league and doesn't really have a lot of dogs in the fight. He's a pretty objective arbiter of these things.

He had Washington dead last. Their offensive line, dead last. And they have played not like a decent offensive line. They've been like a legitimately good unit this year. And I think that's in part because of the plan, the past protection plan, the designs in the run game. He's done a phenomenal job. And I think it might be the amount of exposure I've had to it because I consistently find myself watching them. But I'm giving it to him.

We'll see what it looks like over the second half of the season if some teams get a beat on some of the stuff that they're doing. But right now, up to this point, I just think that he has done the best job elevating the players that he has been given of any assistant in the week. Yeah, I would just throw out the number of answers. It feels like Jaden knows Daniels has on every single play. Like how often does he have an open receiver coming across his face? How often does he have an answer for pressure? How often does he have answers for everything defenses are throwing at him? And I feel like, you know, isn't the best set of players?

There's some drops. There's some stuff that happens. But there are always answers to him in the passing game. And then how many running backs has this team unlocked so far this year? It's not even Austin Eccler. Jeremy McNichols is playing like a solid NFL running back. It's so good. What they're doing with Sam Cosmy and just all the stuff that they have with the gaps in the runs and Polars.

I just so many. I love what they're doing. And so I'm just very tempted to give it to him. I think he's done a really impressive job. And this isn't like, oh, they were supposed to be bad and they're like the eighth best offense in the league. They would probably have a chance to be the most efficient offense in football in most seasons. Unfortunately, the Baltimore Ravens of 2024 exists. So it's knock them off the top perch

Can I throw one guy out there Who nobody mentioned and I thought might be your answer? I'm surprised because I mentioned 17 guys But yes, you certainly can Spags? Like crazy to think that Spag should win this award That's like a lifetime achievement thing Right, but he deserves it

He does deserve it. It's so telling that we forgot him It's so telling that I was just like I'm going to name half the league And then forget Steve Spagnolo Because again, we know what he is It's not sneaking up on you anymore It's not exciting or sexy, but you're absolutely right.

He probably does deserve mention here. Speaking of mentioning half the league and people who are deserving of awards, let's get to Coach of the Year. Derek, I'm going to let you kick this one off. Who are you going with halfway through the season here? There were definitely a lot I debated. And I'll say that the one I actually came the closest to that I think maybe it's not in like a lot of top three or fives, but like I really, really wanted to pick Matt Lafleur.

Like I got really, really close because of what he's done specifically, in the Malik Willis games, hiring a guy like Jeff Hathley, who you said is fixing the defense a little bit. It's like, man, I just feel like he did a really great job. However, I'm just defaulting to Mike Tomlin, man. I mean, this team is the Steelers are seven and two. And I think the defense is mostly what it's, you know, you can expect from out of a Steelers defense. But like, for them to be seven and two where your two quarterbacks are guys that were thrown away by their other franchises in Justin Fields, who like obviously was a bus, didn't work out in Chicago. And then Russell Wilson, who is signing for the minimum after being paid like a trillion dollars in Denver,

those are your two quarterbacks and you're seven and two. And you've had offensive line injuries like all up and down throughout the entire season. Your best pass catcher is George Pickens. And everything after that is like almost non-existent. Like you're throwing to guys like Van Jefferson, Roman Wilson, who you drafted basically has not played this year. You're getting a lot of snaps out of like Darnell Washington who, look, I love dearly. Not the best and most threatening pass catcher, especially in space.

the fact that this team is seven and two and it feels like relatively sustainable, at least as far as much as it can be with these quarterbacks. They're a top 10-ish team this year. This is not like smoking mirrors like it has been in years past. Last year it was bullshit, right? Last year it was completely bullshit. Right? Like Pythagorean wins.

Like typically they would do some weird nonsense where they should win two games and they've won seven. Right now, if you look at everything, they are exactly the type of team that all of the underlying metrics would lead you to believe. And I think that's what feels a little bit different about the Steelers team. Yeah. I mean, their defense has been legitimately great. And, you know, like you said, T.J. Watts playing really well.

But even the guys across from him, Alex Highsmith has been awesome. Nick Herbig was awesome before he got hurt and excited to see him play. Unfortunately, now that High Smith is injured again. But like Beanie Bishop has been a useful player for them from day one. Dante Jackson, who was going to get caught by the Panthers has been good for them. Patrick Queen. Patrick Queen. It's unbelievable on Sunday.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Incredible in that Commander's game. And, like, yes, the offense is not fantastic, but to Derek's point, like, the bar is set pretty low. And they have been functional. They've up their 12 and 13 usage with Arthur Smith. They're running the ball more effectively.

Nashi Harris has been the best football of his career to my eyes. And they're just, like, it's less bullshit than it has been before. They are, there's been a little bit of bullshit. But like that Cowboys game where they forced two fumbles, they had a third fumble at the one yard line. If they had won that game, I would have been like, yes, that is bullshit. They did not win that game. They lost that game, and they are still seven and two. They are a really impressive football team.

And week after week, like, they are, they're forcing teams to play the way they want to play, the way the Steelers want them to play. And I think that's really, really impressive. Tomlin was my pick as well. I think the person you should listen to the most, in terms of the job, Mike Tomlin is doing this year is Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin is feeling himself right now. Think about what we've gotten from Mike Tomlin over the last month. He puts in Russell Wilson.

Everyone's questioning it. It is objectively the correct move after you look at what the offense has been with Russell Wilson. He gets asked about it and his response is, that's why I'm well compensated. Two weeks later, after a huge play, he does the fucking Jim Halpert to the TV camera, like, winking at it. And then did you see what he did today? they asked him about Deante Johnson

and preparing for Deante Johnson and his response was, I haven't seen a lot of him on the video. There are other guys who've been more of a priority for us. Do you hear him on Sunday when they asked him if they were actually going to run a play on fourth and one? Yeah, he's like,

I'll never tell you. Isn't that what he said? He's like, you'll never tell you, you know I'm a degenerate though. Incredible. Incredible. So I think we should listen to that. But on a serious note,

I also picked Mike Tomlin. And one of the reasons is that I think that sometimes we forget what it really means to be a great coach in the NFL. And what it really means to be a great coach in the NFL, I think is twofold as a head coach. One, it's about consistency. What are you bringing every single year over and over and over again? And I reached out to someone on that staff today because I knew we were going to have this conversation. And I just asked him, what has stuck out to you about Mike Tomlin?

And the first thing he said to me was he's never gotten tired of the process. He never ever gets tired of it. And I think that that is just that's so right. And the other words that they used were practical and consistent. He's just so consistent and so practical. If you don't play a certain way, you are not going to play here. And the ability for him to force teams to play the way they want, Barnwell, but also for him to be able to get the most out of his team and for them to have a certain feel to the way that they play,

I think that that is just so impressive. And 18 years in, the fact that he's still able to imbue his team with that sort of approach, mindset production performance is so impressive. And this is a little bit of a lifetime achievement award, but I think that you can make an argument that he's done as good a job this year as he has in any of the previous years when we've had this sort of discussion about Mike Tomlin. So he is also my pick. You can name 10 guys.

I think that Matt LaFleur absolutely deserves mention after what he did in a couple of those Malique Willis games and just who he is every single week at this point. Dan Quinn has done an unbelievable job in Washington at setting that program on the right direction. Dan Campbell in Detroit. Everything when you can say about Dan Campbell every year, you can say about him again this year. What Jim Harbaugh has done with the Chargers. If I was picking a second guy, Jim Harbaugh would be my second guy. Like what the Chargers feel like right now compared to what the Chargers have felt like over the last couple of years, while shedding talent actively and then getting better is fucking crazy. That is all coaching.

That's all it is. That's the entirety of what you're seeing from the Chargers. It's a controlled study. They got worse and they're better because of the coach that they brought in. That's nuts. Andy Reid. Qualifies as a controlled study for scientific purposes. If you're a scientist listening to this podcast. It's as close as we'll get in the end of the end of the end of them. Andy Reid absolutely deserves mention here. And Jonathan Gannon, I think, is done a very good job in Arizona. And the last guy who I think is never going to get mentioned for this award and this is the year where we actually should talk about him is Sean McDermott. Yes. Yes. I actually, he would have been third for me, actually.

I also really considered him. This was supposed to be like a soft reset year for the Bills. It has not been a soft reset year for the Bills. Their defense is still very good as they've shuffled out how many guys. They announced that Matt Milano was going to be back. He was coming back to practice. I was like, oh yeah, Matt Milano's hurt. And it doesn't matter because Terrell Bernard is playing well.

And Dorian Williams suddenly looks like a player now. Like it just, they always find the next guy. And they've been hurt too. and the bills have been fine when they haven't answered those guys. Insane. Absolutely insane. We're going to talk about more bills actually later on in this show, I believe. All right.

So we're going to have one more headline award, and then we're going to hit a couple quicker ones at the end. Let's get to MVP. I think we all have the same MVP pick. Barnwell, I will let you make your case first. Who did you pick for the MVP 10 weeks into the year? I picked Lamar Jackson because I've watched the NFL for 10 weeks, and I think if anyone picks not Lamar Jackson, they're insane.

I will throw one stat out there, and then I will seat the floor. Through 10 weeks since 2000, passers who have played nine or more games and their highest first down rates as passers. Tom Brady in 2007, he won MVP. Payton Manning in 2013, he went MVP. Jared Goff in 2018. Payton Manning in 2004 won MVP. Paid in Manning in 2005 was second in the MVP race and Lamar Jackson in 2024. That would have been insane to imagine as a passer even two years ago.

Lamar Jackson is absolutely picking people apart as a passer. He would be the MVP with zero rushing yards. And that is something we could not have said about either of his awards in years past. I have no counter argument. Lamar Jackson is also my pick. Lamar Jackson has been the best player in the NFL this year. Lamar Jackson has been the most impactful player in the NFL this year. He is a version of Lamar Jackson that we have never seen.

If you look at all of the markers that typically dictate whether people win the MVP, which last year is the exception. We could talk about that if we want to. the fact that it might be hard to give him this after giving it to him last year when part of my, I have a regret that I hadn't, didn't fight for Josh Allen harder than I did last year because he probably should have won it if we were actually giving it to the most valuable player in the league. But what Lamar has done this year, total EPA, all of the efficiency numbers, for me, it's the

improvements that he's made in some of the areas of his game where he used to be lacking. The fact that he went from one of the worst quarterbacks in the league when blitzed over the last three years to arguably the best quarterback in the league. he feels like he has the game in the palm of his hand now in a way that he never did even when he was winning MVP awards. And a guy with his level of talent, the fact that that's the control that now seems to be exhibited all of the time is fucking terrifying. Like, he has just reached an entirely new plane and I didn't really know that that was even possible for him. First of all, that's why I don't feel bad about potentially giving him back to back. Like with

Miles Garrett, it's like, well, he's just always been that guy. And it's kind of a wide open, whatever. Lamar Jackson is legitimately a different player. And I think why it's so impressive is like, in some theoretical world, like, Lamar Jackson could have gotten better against the Blitz and his numbers could have been better if like they traded for AJ Brown. And he can just go throw a bunch of go balls. And it's like, wow, that solves everything. That's not what happened. Like, they pretty much just have all of the same players here, at least as far as Patch Kestrich, obviously they bring in Derek Henry, who does help the offensive ecosystem a little bit. And their offensive line shedded talent. Right. They lost guys.

Yes. And like they have been, and like their starting right tackle was not even their starting right tackle in week one, Roger Rosengarde. He's a rookie right now. Like it's just everything Lamar is playing with right now is so impressive. And he's doing it like you said with more control. What he's been given pre-snap in year two of the Todd Monkin offense, he's just doing so much more with having control at the line of scrimmage, being able to set protections, being able to shift guys in and out if he sees man coverage and knows we can beat him this way or he knows he's hot. Okay, I'm going to bring seven into the protection and we're just going to beat it that way. Like his ability to do all of that, I think has really taken his game to the next level. The other thing is he is a better runner than he has been in years past. He's more explosive. He is so much faster. He is more explosive this year than he was last year. I don't even think it's a conversation. I think he said himself like I was out of, like I was out of shape the past two or three years, which is like relative, right?

He was still one of the best five athletes. He actively added weight because he wanted to hold up a little bit better and not get hurt. But him shedding the weight into this season, he looks more explosive. He absolutely does. And that has been so important in him avoiding people in the pocket. That is where it's shown up more than what he's done as a runner. The fact that he's just making people look ridiculously stupid in the pocket when making free runners miss, that's an area of his game where, again, it just feels like he has

total control of how the game is being played every single week. Yeah. So I think it just has to be a more. Yeah. My favorite Lamar snap of the entire year is such a dumb snap, but I love it so much. It was against the bucks. It was the second and 15. and they called like a slip screen to the running back,

just as hell, and the buck blew it up. And like second to 15, that's a bad situation for a lot of teams. That is a we're giving up situation for like 20 teams in the NFL. The bucks blew up that screen for another nine or 10 teams. That is the end of the play. Lamar just slips out the backside for 17 yards.

Like easy as can be totally untouched, never in any danger, just creates an explosive as like an afterthought. That is just, There is only one player on the planet playing that way, and that's Lamar Jackson. I think the other guys, you probably should mention Josh Allenis having another fantastic year. Patrick Mahomes and what he's being asked to do with that offense, especially in like high leverage moments on third down, has been incredibly important for what the Chief's ecosystem is. So I think he should be mentioned.

Jared Goff has, you know, probably was in the conversation before throwing five interceptions last week. But this isn't really close to me. Like I think that Lamar has distanced himself from everybody else. Jayden Daniels, you probably throw in there too, but I feel like the gap between Lamar and everybody else is as wide as it's been in a couple years for this MVP discussion. So I don't really feel the need to entertain that many other options right now. Yeah. I think the only concern is maybe will you have MVP voters who think Derek Henry should win this award? And so you have a split between Ravens' offensive players.

I can understand how 10 years ago made that way. I'm not hearing that, though. I would be surprised. And again, the bar, he has to. clear to win back to back is incredibly high. He's clearing up by like 10 feet. It's not even close. We're going to take one more quick break and then we're going to hit a couple made-up stupid awards because we had to have at least a couple of those before we get out of here. It's time for made-up awards. A few other things. We just want to talk about as we were trying to tell the story of

the season, which I think is always what I've tried to do when we hand out awards. The first one here, Barnwell, pleasant surprise. The thing that you just feel like you've enjoyed more through the first half of the season than you might have expected coming into the year. I'll throw a few players out there. You know, I don't know if you want to extend this to concepts or teams, but I'll just go with some players. It was a wide open category for a reason. It's essentially however you wanted to fill it in.

So players to come to mind for me, Sam Cosby, who we mentioned earlier, like, if you want to pick a player, I was not expecting to be like an all pro candidate on the commanders. That's the guy who comes to mind for me. Every week, I'm like, he's the right guard. Who is this dude? Yeah. Like, like, did, like, Brandon's shirt, like, prime Brandon Shirf get back on the commanders? And I didn't realize it.

He moves better than Prime Brandon Shurf. It is incredible to see this dude play. Gregory Rousseau came to mind for me as a player. I absolutely wanted to mention him. Every week. Every, like, he has, like, five pressure, five good pressures every single week. And whenever there's a big play, like, whenever there's a strip sack on the bills, like, I'm just waiting for his name to be called. and it gets called.

And then I think the obvious one, and I'm sure, I don't know how I feel about this guy necessarily as an all pro-candidate, but Zach Bond. Like, where on earth did Zach Bond turn into, like, he's having the Devandre Campbell season to me in terms of like, that guy? That guy, like every week, that guy is making plays. It's incredible to me. So those are three players who came to mind for me as pleasant surprises. This is very funny because we have another category that it's probably too muddled and they're not different enough in the way that I explain them. But another one that we're doing is kind of narrative changing players and like what they've done. Zach Bonn and Greg Russo were on my list for that.

So I think both of them probably deserve mention here. Derek, your biggest pleasant surprise halfway through the year. Who is it? Or what is it? We've already kind of talked about it in a few different categories here. But to me, it's the Chargers defense. I mean, I'm just so pleasantly surprised watching what they were. Like I thought when Jim Harbaugh came in and he, you know, you bring in Greg Roman, you drafted offensive tackle.

I'm like, okay, they'll get the offense. to a high floor and Justin Herbert's incredible and maybe the defense will look a little bit more put together. But I just didn't think that with the talent that they had, that they would be like a top six type of defense where they are truly suffocating defenses week to week. And they're getting the most out of almost every single player, whether it's some of the free agents like Puna Ford, obviously bringing back Denzel Perriman or it's just some of the rookies that they've drafted. Like Cam Hart, three steel we've mentioned. Junior Colson, when he's had to play, has been solid. Like, they're just,

every single guy. And what day on Henley is. Yes, Day on Henley is this year. Every single guy. It's every guy has taken a step forward. And that's what coaching is. Did you feel it?

Do you feel those improvements across the entire unit? And I think the Chargers are a perfect example and a perfect answer for that. It would probably be Washington's offense for me if we hadn't spent so much time talking about Washington's offense. The one that I'm going to throw out, and it's obviously been diminished because they've had some injuries. I've loved watching what Liam Cohen has done with the Bucks off. offense. I absolutely love watching what they do. Even without Mike Evans and Chris Godwin,

the problem solving they've had to do over the last couple weeks. Cade Auden power slot has been just randomly the best player on the field. Building the passing game out of Cade Otten and the way that they're using the running backs. With your two guys come off that tree that took head coaching, or assistant coaching jobs, literally off the old ramp staffs that took O.C. jobs in the N.C. South. Between him and Zach Robinson, I think a lot more people probably could have predicted that Zach Robinson was going to do a good job. He was immediately coming off that ram staff. He was Rahim Morris's handpicked guy to bring with him from that staff to run the offense.

The fact that the Falcons are this sort of team, it's like, okay, I could probably expect that. Liam Cohen bounced around a little bit. He was at Kentucky. You know, the Bucks were picking a guy kind of out of the air in a way that the Falcons weren't because they were starting a staff from day one. I had more questions about what the Bucks would look like. And outside of maybe Washington, in terms of team. that I'm thrilled to turn on now that I didn't necessarily think I was going to feel that way on August 15th, the bucks are right there at the top of that list.

Yeah. They're a screen game, by the way. The screen game is incredible. It's so good. It is insanely good. Like, even just that one where it's like it looks like an angle route kind of screen that they throw to Rashad White this past week. I mean, just every week they've got something like that.

Yeah. I mean, one of the single biggest improvements a year to year, we talked about Chargers defense. that is certainly up there. Bucks running game. So much better this year. And some of that is the offensive lines playing better. Sadly, Tristan Wirfs is going to be missing time now, which is going to make that harder. It's only a couple weeks, but that's good because it looked like it could have been worse than that.

Exactly. Let's get to the flip side of this. Biggest disappointment for you, Barnwell, through 10 weeks has been what? I threw a few guys out there. I'm sure players that have come up on this show regularly. Anthony Richardson feels like a really obvious one. unfortunately. Colts offense was one of my potential candidates. So that out there. Kenyon Green and the Texans offensive line.

Texans offense was also one of my answers. And then I threw Rick Wulin out there. I was really excited to see Rick Wollin play in a Mike McDonald defense and he's been really disappointing. So maybe Seahawks defense, which has been very inconsistent. They've now moved on from both of their starting inside linebackers in the middle of the year. Like that feels very much like a work in progress in a way that, for example, the Chargers defense. does not. Yeah, it's a very good answer. Derek, do you have? This is going to hurt you. This breaks my heart so bad, but it's Rokwon Smith. I think last year, really the last year and a half

when he was in Baltimore, he was firmly linebacker two behind Fred Warner. Like, there are only three or four guys who coverage-wise could take away multiple routes on a play, really play what was behind them, squeeze so much air out of the coverage, and then even side-to-side in the run game, what Roquon Smith could do killing screens or getting to the perimeter on outside zone plays. Like he was a truly, truly special player. This year, he's just not that guy. He looks slower. I think he doesn't look like he is as tuned into what the defense is asking of him.

And conversely, what offenses are trying to do to attack him. Whereas, you know, last year it felt like eyes in the back of his head. He knew exactly where every dig route was, every seam route. This year, it's just he's conceding so much space in a way that he didn't before. And so I think you could kind of, you know, throw entire Ravens defense into this, right, for disappointing unit. But I think he is like the embodiment of why it feels so disappointing right now. I don't think Barnwell, we talk enough about how we, there's volatility for corners and coverage players in general. But I don't think we consider talk enough about how that probably applies to offball linebackers as well when you think about them as coverage players.

It's why Fred Warner is so special. That's such an alien. And by the way, somebody we should have mentioned for defense player of the year, by the way. Fred Warner also honorable mention for defensive player of the year. You essentially said like four of mine. I had the Texans offense. The Colts offense was in there and the Bears offense. Just like what the Bears' offense and Kea Williams have looked like.

That's my own personal disappointment, but I think absolutely deserves mention. Last one here, and I think you guys took this maybe a slightly different than we probably meant it, but that's totally fine. The biggest narrative change. And this was kind of a way to talk about most improved players for me. But I think that there is a bunch of different ways that you could take this. So Barnwall, the group, position group player team that you think has done the best job at changing their narrative this season is what? I would say Kyler comes to mind for me. It's a really good one.

I think there was just this perception of, you know, and like the Cola duty stuff, I'm going to leave aside. But just like this feeling of like, okay, like he is entirely just out of structure. Like he is what he is. He is going to catch a captain. And that is, yeah, he can't grow. He can't be more efficient. he can't be more consistent. He is significantly more consistent this year. His success rate as a passer 46.5% before this year, up over 53% this season. Drive after drive, he's making plays. He's

smart with the football. He has incredible timing on when to create a enough structure. He is not defaulting to that. And I think that was a criticism of him in the past that he would just be only that guy. He has been safe and protected. He's smart running. Just such a fun player to watch each and every week. Yeah, I love that one because I just am so impressed by what he is down to down, what he's doing with Instructure, what he's doing within the pocket. He's had that same sort of improvement and maturation that we see from quarterbacks in their fifth, sixth year that sometimes can happen. And I don't think enough people consider what that might look like. And when I say enough people, I mean me. I didn't give him the room for that sort of improvement to happen. And it absolutely has.

Derek, what's yours for this? Biggest narrative changer that you've seen so far this year. I'm kind of going a little bit bigger picture and I went with like an entire position groups. Running backs are back, baby. Like I think about all of the investment at the position. Even just this off season, the two front runners we just mentioned for offensive player of the year, Derek Henry, Sequin Barkley, big ticket running backs from bad teams who are now on good teams who are allowed to like fully change what their offense is allowed to get away with. Josh Jacobs, to a lesser degree, has actually done that with the Green Bay Packers.

I think he's been running hard as hell this season. Obviously, some people got mad at, you know, the Atlanta Falcons for taking Bejohn Robinson in the first round, top, you know, eight or ten or whatever it was. He is, I think, fourth right now in scrimmage yards behind an offensive line that is like, okay. Like, he is doing a superhuman job back there. Think about the Lions, like their investment in signing a guy like David Montgomery giving him money and then also spending a first round pick on Jemir Gibbs. And then think about what's... It's such a perfect example because the way that the Lions use their running backs is such proof that. running backs are not interchangeable. Think about how different the Lions offense feels when David

Montgomery and Jemir Gibbs are both in there. It's potent in very different ways, but they feel like completely different units. So this idea that running backs are just these plug-in play pieces that actually don't have an impact on who you are and how you feel, I think this season has gone such a long way in debunking that. And to that point, think about what the Niners have been without Christian McCaffrey. And obviously he played this last weekend. It still looked a little bit weird, but first game back, whatever. But they were the best offense in football when they had him back there last year. And then for the first and nine weeks of the season,

they looked like they didn't know what they wanted to be as an offense because they were like, oh shit, we don't have the Christian McCaffrey bail us out button anymore. They became a chuck-it downfield offense for half a year. They had like a weird holiday. It was like the sexy Niners Halloween costume without McCaffrey. And that's not what they do best. They are a much better offense with McCaffrey in the fold. But yeah, I mean, absolutely.

And I think I'll be intrigued to see how teams react to this because there's a subset of teams who I think are going to want to be like, hey, we can spend our running backs now. Great. Like, let's go do it. There may not be the same caliber of players hitting the market. Like, I don't think it's an accident. That's part of it too, for sure. That the Ravens and the Eagles, two of the three most analytically inclined teams in football were like, actually, yes, this is a good time to invest heavily. They bought the dip.

They bought the dip. And I think that's the biggest thing. And that's why when those two teams doing it at the same time, I don't think it was an accident on two fronts. One, when you think about it from a distressed asset perspective and like we've gone way too far in how we're valuing this stuff, those teams are going to jump on that. And two, I think it matters where in the build you are. Are you, have you, is everything else in place? Is this going to be like a finishing touch on your roster that allows you to fill in some of the gaps that exist in your offense? And I think that was true for both the Ravens and the Eagles.

everything else was pretty much in place. Are we going to get a running back that is going to get all the meat on the bone all the time? And I think both of those offenses last year, if you look at mistackles forth, rush yards over expected, every single metric that tries to separate running backs from the situation, they were some of the worst teams in the league. Now they've completely flipped that, and now they're some of the best teams in the league, and it's unlocked different versions of their offense. I went completely different with this.

I had all narrative-changing players, the same way that you did with pleasant surprises, Barnwell. I had Zach Bonn. I had Greg Rousseau. Mackay Beckton. The way that Mikey Bechton has played for the Eagles, I just completely changed the way we're going to talk about Mackay Beckton. Zach Allen? Like what the fuck is happening with Zach Allen this year?

It's absolutely ridiculous. Zach Allen was quite two years ago, though. He's better this year. So well this year, though. He's better this year. It's true. For sure. My number one, though, in terms of how we talk about him, even now, how we talk about him just because of what sort of character he is.

But combining that with the player that we're actually seeing, George Pickens has been an oddity, right, over the last couple years. There have been clips of his effort on certain plays. He's memed more than almost any other player in the league. George Pickens is objectively good as an NFL player. And we talked about this in the summer, Derek. Like, I watched him last year. I was like, there's more to this guy than go balls down the sideline.

Like he has different layers to his game. And I think that we're starting to see that. among wide receivers of at least 100 snaps this year, he's sixth in yards per route run. This guy is truly affecting games. And you mentioned they have no other pass catchers. And their pass offense is actually competent in large part because of what he is capable of. So I think he has to be mentioned if we're talking about guys who, if we're not talking about them differently yet, we probably should be talking about them a little bit differently by the end of the season.

I think that is a good one. I probably undersold how much hop he's got into his step when he has the ball. I want to see more yak opportunities for him. Like I legitimately do. They don't give a ton to him, but I do think he probably deserves more of them. All right. That is all we got. Barnwell, thank you very much for the time, sir.

I know you were a very busy man and we kept you longer than you probably expected, but you should expect it at this point. It was great, very happy to do it. I feel like I need to reconsider my Saquan-Barkley-Darckley-Kin-Rer conversation, though. I feel like that was the most compelling argument anybody made today, I think, is the argument that Derek made about Sequin-Barkly. That was a very, very good one. All right, that is all we've got for today.

We'll be back with our week 11 preview this Friday. Barnwall, tell the people where they can find your work these days. ESPN.com podcast, Bill Barnwell Show, on TV occasionally, all that stuff. All good stuff. All right. That's all we got, guys. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon.