The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The biggest questions heading into the 2022 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

Draft week is finally here! Robert Mays sits down with Nate Tice and Dane Brugler to break down the top 20 biggest questions ahead of Thursday night. They talk about the QBs, teams with two first-round picks, who they believe could be the next Pro Bowler and prospects who could fall. They also give their favorite picks, bold predictions and much more.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. Today's Monday, April 25th. I'm Robert Mays. Fun show for you guys today. It's draft week. And we are going to kick off draft week with a little table setter. We're going to ask 20 big questions as we start draft week.

And we wanted to give you guys a little preview of what our live draft show on Thursday and Friday night is going to look like. And to do that, I have two guys I'm very excited to talk with. First of all, Dane Brugler, a man that desperately needs some sleep right now, I'm sure. How are you doing over there, buddy? I'm good. I'm so excited this draft week. We're almost there. It's the five-yard line.

We're close. We're going to punch it in. I just imagine you when this is over just getting put into cryos sleep and then just like getting to shelve yourself for like the next six months, except you have like seven kids. so you have absolutely no downtime whatsoever. I can't wait to just bow my lawn. And that just sounds amazing. Like, I mean, there's a cup holder, you know, just have a beer, mow my lawn. I'll be happy.

That sounds fantastic. Also joining us today, my good friend, Nate Tyson, Nate, how you doing, bud? I'm doing great. How's this full-time job treating you? It's great. So far, so good. Yeah, I got to write up a mock draft. That was great.

I can only imagine. I did two rounds. Dane does seven. So, and Dane, Dane's become like, you know, oh, man, I'm blanking on the band right now. But it's like, Dane's like his big thing. You do the beast, Dane, which is tremendous work that you do. And it's like, that's all I want to call you. It's just like your, your work has become your, my nickname for you and my head. It's like Dane is the beast.

He is the Draft Beast. I think that's totally fair. He's the beast. All right. So here's what we're going to do today. I wanted to just zoom out a little bit and ask the biggest question. we have heading into this draft. We've had a lot of this stuff in some way, shape, or form over the last month or so.

But I think as we get closer, it's important to reset a little bit. And I'm going to let you guys go. You guys are the experts here. I'm going to tee you up and get your insights on some of this stuff. Let's start, Dane, with where this draft conversation has really started over the last couple months. How does a shockingly unpredictable, based on years past and some other expectations we've had coming into other drafts, a shockingly unpredictable top.

10 ultimately shakeout. I think that is the defining question here as we get started. And I wanted to ask you, what do you think the pivot point is? In the top 10, what do you think the moment that everything could change and the pick you're really waiting to see crystallize to understand how the rest of it is going to go? And I think in most years, we have those tent poles, which is where the quarterbacks are going going to go in the top 10. You know, last year we knew quarterbacks are going one, two, three.

So, you know, we had those tent poles where, you know, the two, you know, the two, years ago, we knew Joe Burrow was going one. We thought quarterback probably five and six with Miami and the Chargers. This year, there's a good chance we don't see a quarterback top 10. And so that just makes it all that more unpredictable. I mean, we could start really the number one pick. I mean, Aidan Hutchinson is still the favorite, but he's by no means a lock to be number one. I mean, it would not be a shock at all. Trayvonne Walker is the number one pick. I think that when you, my line with Trin Walker has been the same since the fall is I would not be shocked at all if he's the best defense player from this class. It's a realistic outcome for him.

So betting on the traits, I can see why he'd be the number one pick. But the team that I keep coming back to is Carolina at 6. Because that is, I think, realistically the first spot where we could see a quarterback off the board. The Panthers are, you know, they're just a little unpredictable. So it's not even like, I think, common sense applies here. Because they could go in so many directions. And then I think an underrated pivot point is the Jets. You know, just having those two picks in the top 10.

Joe Douglas, you know, at number four, I think that, you know, we're forecasting probably a pass rusher at that point. But who they take at number four is going to have a ripple effect, I think. Not just on the rest of the top 10, but who they take at 10. So, you know, for example, if they take a pass rusher in the top, top 10. I think that ideally they want a pass rusher. So if they take a pass rusher at four, or if they don't take one at four,

does that mean they have to? Are they putting themselves into a corner when they have to take one at 10? That kind of changes their strategy a little bit. So I think that number four pick, it's coming down to Ikea Kwanu and Kavon, I really think it's coming down to those two players. And I don't think we talk enough about Mackay Beckton

and how much, I mean, there are people in the league that don't think he plays another down for the Jets. They think that it's, you know, the injury factor, the relationship with the coaches is just that fractured. And so a guy like Ikea Kuanu is Mackay-Bectin insurance if he's there at number four. Or straight replacement beyond insurance. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So if they go Ikey at 4, does that mean they have to go past rush or at 10? Because that's the position I think they really want or is the right receiver is there. So I think, you know, having two picks in the top 10 like that, who they go at 4, will have a ripple effect on the rest of the top 10 and then ultimately who they take at 10. Speaking of those pivot points, Nate, and just those potential timelines, which timeline is most fun to you? Like, if you're just going down outside of Hodgson at 1, lay out like the next five picks for me and what you think is most fun. Well, I mean, Walker going 1 would start a whole fun. Okay.

Domino's effect because I just real quick, because I've like now have understood the argument with Walker and everything, this is a draft full of doubles. and Walker is a home run swing. That's what that's kind of what you're looking at. It's a draft full of doubles, singles and doubles, you know, from five to 50. And that's what the argument for Walker is. So, but I would say as soon as somebody moves up into that top five or top six, the Saints, you know, something like that, someone happens, that would be the most entertaining part of the draft because of the ripple effect

that would happen thereafter. I would say, shoot, if Iki Aquana goes four, and that actually, that argument makes sense. Not even just with Beckton, say everything works out, and it's all sunshine of rainbows with the jets. and Beckton and he's at the left side. What's great about Kwano, he might become an all-pro guard. He might become a great right tackle. Like they have, that's like a nice argument to have that's kind of like, hey, no matter what, we're going to find a good spot for him. But if he goes four, do then other teams get antsy for the tackles now? Do they, you know, if the edge rushers are

gone, who starts moving up to get edge rushers? Like that's, that's what most entertaining thing would be. So if we go Walker, Tibido goes two, Soss Gardner goes three to the Texans. Oh my God. Like what, what happens at four, five, six? What, what movement happens there? If somebody gets antsy and reaches up for a receiver, because right now it's eye of the beholder, someone hears, oh, man, they might take him at 10.

They might take him in the teens. Oh, man, we got to jump him to seven for the giant second pick. You know, something like that. That would be an entertaining timeline. I think that first trade will pop it and everything else that comes after. It would be really fun because what runs happen at corner, tackle, and receiver is going to be super interesting to watch unfold. Let's say one of those tackles is there.

the tackle that the Saints potentially love is there at seven when the Giants are picking again. And we just see that trade pop up. Like the New Orleans Saints are now on the clock. And if the tackles don't go early and there's two or three of them left and they love one of them, is that what ends up happening? It's just I can't remember a draft like this. I think six, pick six and seven. I think, yeah, those two spots are prime opportunity for a team looking at good.

And the Saints, yeah, I mean, that's, I would not be surprised at all if that's the team. I mean, that's, we've seen him do it before, right? I remember the Lamar Jackson draft, was it, 2018. Yeah, 2018. That was the year they traded up for Marcus Davenport. I remember as that was unfolding doing, I can't remember where I was doing, but doing live coverage of the draft. And all of a sudden we see the Saints, you know, the logo at the bottom,

oh, they just made a trade. Oh, this is for Lamar. It's got to be. Who else do you making that big move up for? And then they take Marcus Davenport. I mean, this is a team that's not afraid to go get their job. guy and I think that's that makes the most sense as a saints using those two picks going up to get my in my opinion I think is charles cross again that's a guy they want um and yeah that that makes a ton of sense all right let's talk about that six overall pick my next question here dane what do you think the conversation has looked like for the past couple weeks in carolina like what do you think the factions in the building look like on the quarterback side and the no quarterback side and what is the dialogue between them. It's really hard to understand because we have a coach that's beyond on the hot

seat. I mean, I think there are reasons beyond football why they just decided to keep them for another year and talking about coach rule. And whether or not that's the right move long term. But how does that affect who they draft? How involved his ownership? I think we all know it's probably pretty involved with who this pick is going to be. So how does that affect things? I think that, you know, from Coach Rules perspective, how are you approaching this draft when, you know, you're not, you could draft a quarterback that's going to help you win games.

Is he a clear upgrade over what you have on the roster? I don't know that you're necessarily saying that as, you know, for this year for 2022. But as ownership, are you any, any these quarterbacks, you know, really do it for you. So I think that when it's all said and done, I will be surprised if they draft a quarterback at this point. That's how I feel right now. I mean, that could change tomorrow. But based off of what we've heard,

and here's a thing too. Like, I don't, the Panthers are going to tell me what they're going to do, obviously. But when you talk to your sources with other teams, they sure have opinions on what they think the Panthers are going to do and what some of these other teams are going to do. And that helps form an opinion of, you know, if a team thinks that the, you know, Panthers or multiple teams, I think the Panthers aren't drafting a quarterback.

Well, I mean, I think I can, you know, take that and use that as, as reasoning why I don't think one will happen. So I don't know. It's hard to have a good feel for the Panthers because, like I said, it's not even like you can use just pure common sense here with his team. So Lance made a point last week when he was talking to you that he thought a veteran was the right way for rules to potentially buy more time

because they were in win now mode. I can understand that argument. I can also understand thinking drafting a rookie restarts your clock a little bit. It gives you a little bit more leeway even though we haven't seen that very often. I was going to say, does it though?

It doesn't all the time. Last year we had two guys, two quarterbacks drafted in the first round the coaches were fired. And it happens more often than you think. So I can understand both arguments. The reason that this is difficult, in my opinion,

out what they're going to do, figure out what they want to do, Nate, is because I have no idea what they want to be. What, what do you think the Panthers vision of a successful season looks like in 2022? What is that? I don't know, like being a wild card team, I guess. Like that I have, they have no picks. They, I know. It's just so, so difficult to pin them down. And I think that's why this is such a murky, muddy conversation. Yeah, every day I've kind of, changed how I think about, I think they do too, to be honest, is whether, oh, they go tackle because that's the safest. They want to win now and they don't want to, you know, ride it out with a rookie quarterback because the argument is say they went Malik Willis. Malik Willis is a project at six.

So it's like, unless they got Teper, the owner going, hey, you got two years to develop them. Yeah, that's, that's easy to say right now April in 2022. Now we're talking January in 2020 and you guys go, you know, three and 14. Like you're going to be a little, oh, man, man, that's going to be a little hard to like argue for another year or two with him is temper push you to take pick it because of the pit connection like you don't know like what these meetings go that they go no we want to take a tackle because we think that's the safest thing and you don't know if the owner is going well you better take your guy to the future because we're going to keep restock in that position because that's what it seems every couple of weeks they're changing what they want to do i mean it's easier

to pedal hope if you if you pick a quarterback it's much easier to pedal upside and hope if you pick a guy if i were trying to save my job i think the best solution and the best possible outcome is drafting a tackle at six and trading for one of the veterans. And they have $30 million in cap space. They're one of the only teams in the league set up to absorb the Garapolo contract or the Baker contract, whichever one they end up choosing. The Garapolo timeline is obviously a little bit more uncertain because of the shoulder. But I just think that would be my breaking case of emergency timeline if I were Carolina.

Pick a safe player tackle at six and go get a veteran and see if I can win nine games and try to convince ownership that I deserve one more year to see this thing through. Yeah. I mean, so, okay, if they make one of those trades for one of those veterans, we're talking about what's probably a second round pick? Do you think that's maybe what they have to, and it's got to be a second round pick next year? So, you know, and obviously I don't think, you know, rule cares all that much

because he might not be the guy next year making that second round pick. So I think he'll be okay with giving up that pick. But yeah, you hate dipping in it next year already. when you don't have a second or third round pick this year. So it's a tough situation. I wonder how desperate Cleveland is. And not desperate might be the wrong word. I wonder how incentivized Cleveland is to just say, we'll take whatever.

Because with San Francisco, if it comes down to it, they can just cut him. They can just release him. And it doesn't matter in terms of the cap ramifications. The Browns just need to get Baker off the roster. They need a team that's willing to take him. I wonder if, and I understand that they're. definitely incentivized to wait. Think about all the different times we've seen.

The best example to me is the San Bradford trade with the Philadelphia and Minnesota, where we looked at the Eagles in 2017. They have 17 quarterbacks. Like, why does this make any sense? And then they get to trade Bradford for a first round pick on the eve of camp because there's an injury. And patience was a virtue there. Does Cleveland kind of take a similar route with like, we're not going to give

him away. We're going to wait and see how this all unfolds. Or if Carolina says, we'll give you a fourth right now. the Browns say, you know what, we want to wash our hands with this and we're done. I don't know. I can understand it both ways. Yeah. And it came out this week that, you know, they might hold on to him because Deshaun Watson is going to have a, you know, six game suspension or whatever.

Yep. There's no way. You can't do that. You can't bring them back. Imagine a locker room. Oh, my. That is. The quarterback meeting room will be a mess.

If they were to do that, if they were to do that, that is the most unflinching, I do not care about awkwardness move. No. that I've ever seen in my entire life. The secondhand embarrassment I'm already feeling for what it's going to be like in that room, instantly I would accept that trade. Instantly. Ignore every element of human element. Like every part of the human element entirely.

It's like, no, we'll just, no, he's a spanned for six games. We'll put our 80 overall quarterback in there, right? Any overall quarterback that you've openly shopped that has shit on you on

podcast with his dog upside down on the couch. There's so many different things to take into consideration. You know, and you know, honestly, it's, and it's funny with Carolina, with Teper,

I think we're seeing a lot of parallels when Jimmy Haslam took over the Browns. I think that you're seeing, yeah, I mean, motivated guys, they're going to pour resources into this. They want to win.

I think that, you know, the intention is there, but I think they're quickly understanding how, how easily the process can be disrupted, especially when you don't have

that quarterback. So it's just, I think it's just interesting how, those two ownerships are kind of mirroring each other. All right, my next one here. What happens with all of these teams that have two first round picks? We don't have to go through all of them.

We talked about the Jets a little bit. We talked about the Giants. I keep forgetting that the Texans have two picks in the top 13. Maybe that's just a blind spot that I have for Houston. But there are so many teams that have these two first round picks and ways to reshape their team at different points along their team-building process. Dan, we talked about the Jets a little bit. What would you say is your favorite haul for the Giants?

The two players that they could come away with in the top seven, you'd be like, that's it. That's the vision. I think it's got to be the tackle and sauce, the corner. I mean, I think that's ideal. You know, James Bradbury probably not going to be on that roster much longer. They would love to add a right tackle. And they want Andrew Thomas to be the left tackle.

You add Evan Neal as your right tackle. I mean, there's two building blocks right there. If you're, especially with a first year general manager, you know, you've got a new coaching staff in there, two picks in the top seven, you need two cornerstone players. And I think that on both sides of the ball, you've got your right tackle, you got a shutdown corner. Now, there's a chance that either of those guys will make it to five and seven.

But I think that is at least somewhat of a realistic, ideal situation for both picks. Yeah. So moving down some of these other teams, Nate, right now, as we're recording this show and you have to put money on it, the Saints have 16 and 19. Do they make those picks? Oh, no.

You don't think so. What percentage chance are you putting on it? 5% that they stay, Pat. Five! Oh, man. There's no way. You are choosing violence. This man is just embracing the chaos right now.

And I'm sure Dane understands it's doing a first, like, kind of an official mock draft, and it's a fun exercise because you realize what runs on positions happen. Yeah. And based on what the Saints are kind of, of going for and looking at their roster looking at you know QBs and james winston's contract and all that stuff and it just i'm not just saying they're trained up for a QB but kind of how they can be okay there it's like man they're moving up for something here like one of those premium spots and tackle makes all the sense of the world dayn already alluded to it it's like that makes all the sense

because they need they have a glaring hole at left tackle they have a decent starter there right now you know kind of nice swing guy but it's like just the run on tackles that's going to happen and so it's like you moved up and you traded all the is collateral for just to hang out and get the fifth best tackle or the fourth best tackle. And maybe you're not your pick of the litter at receiver. If there's a run on receivers right before you. So I feel like they either move up to early teens or they move up to the seventh spot. I don't know if the six spot is Carolina.

Even the five spot. You know, you don't know. Like that kind of like range right there. I can see them seeing how things shake out and then taking a stab at a guy. So I think they move. I really do. I think maybe ideally is they use that second rounder they have and one of the first to move up to get that tackle and then they stay with the other one and maybe get the receiver.

I think that's ideal. Yeah, I think that they'd love to do that. And it's funny, I was talking to a buddy with the team that they pick in the mid-first round the other day. And these teams do mock drafts. You know, as much as we like to, you know, make fun on mock drafts, teams do it because they want to, you know, try to come up with scenarios to, you know, where they're picking. We talked about it with Rick Spielman last week on the show. How often they do that? Just like the war room stuff that they do before the draft consistently.

And I was talking to him about it. And he said this is the hardest that they've ever tried to do a mock draft because he said, I can promise you, we're going to see a lot of trades. There's going to be a lot of action that's totally going to disrupt what we think is going to happen. So, you know, a team that's picking in the 15 to 25 range, they're buckled in because they think this is going to be a bumpy ride until they get to their pick. Because they're just not sure how it's going to play out. And a big part of that is going to be the trade action.

I was looking at the history of teams with multiple first round picks. I got sent down an unfortunate stat head pro football reference rabbit hole that I spent way too much time on. But by my count, and this could be wrong because I just did it by hand very crudely, I counted 34 teams that had multiple first round picks since 2001 when the new CBA was put into place. 34. It's more than I expected. Yeah, that sounds like a lot. But when you look at it, it's a combination of a ton of different things.

You have teams trading up. The Saints have done it multiple different times. The Browns have done it so many times. Because the Browns have, they have the Wens trade. They have the Deshawn Watson trade. They got an extra first round pick for Trent Richardson. Which you totally forget about. So the Browns have absolutely been the team that's done this the most.

Sammy Watkins, yeah. Sammy Watkins is another one. But the Browns are, it kind of brings me in my next point. Most of the time when a team has, multiple first round picks. They're in rebuilding mode. They're trading away top five picks. They're moving on.

They're trying to accumulate assets. That's why the situation with the chiefs and the Packers is so strange. Because we very rarely see teams that are true contenders, like on the doorstep of a championship, have this chance to restock the cupboard at this stage of their trajectory. Of the 34 teams that I found, there were three that I think you could argue. were in a similar position. The 2018 Patriots who traded a first round pick for Brandon Cooks to the ramps. They were just coming off a Super Bowl appearance.

The 2029ers who traded to Forrest Buckner for the Colts first round pick after coming off a Super Bowl appearance. And in a way, the 2021 Ravens, because they got that extra first round pick in the Orlando Brown trade, even though there was a second involved in there and whatever. But of the 34 times it's happened, there's really only been three others that even slightly resemble what's going on with the Packers and the Chiefs right now. And I think that's why what they're sitting there looking at, Nate, is absolutely fascinating. We just never see this.

Yeah, we got, like, we got Aaron Rogers, who hasn't retired, remind you, Packers, you know, loaded with two first rounders, Chiefs, you still have Patrick Mahomes there. And really, decent roster still actually looking at him, breaking it down. I was, you know, you still, at the Tiger Hill, whatever, whatever. But how they're hodgepodge and their receivers is making a lot of sense as you start looking at their roster.

And you look at these teams and it's like, man, the Packers won really. It's like they're replenishing. They're kind of like they can go on these nice paths as it. It's almost like they are playing Madden. It's like we already got our, you know, 99 quarterback. And then we can go, oh, man, you know, we got this guy. He's got contract here. So we're going to have a rotational guy with our first round pick.

And then we can like, you know, they could just do so many, go down so many different paths with these. And it was really hard actually doing the mock again. I'm going to refer to about 17 times. It's just that what positions do they go down? Is it like, are they going to help the D-line? Are they going to help the O line? Are they going to go to receiver in the first round?

Like, that is super interesting to me because they can just go down so many paths, and they're still contending. Like, they're still one of the NFC favorites with all these different picks that they have in the first couple days. The other thing with the Chiefs, too, that's really interesting is it's not that just that they have two ones. They have two- twos. They have two-frees.

They have two-fours. So multiple picks in the first four rounds. I mean, the chances of them actually picking at all eight of those spots, probably not high. But it's just interesting they have all that ammo. You know, how's each going to play with all those draft picks? It's going to be fascinating. And so rarely do we see a team that has championship aspirations,

and let's say the chiefs take half a step back this year as part of this process. That would necessarily be shocking. But I think they do still have championship aspirations. And usually when we have a team with that sort of ammo that controls the draft in that way, we're talking about a Dolphins team two years into their rebuild with one, surprising we almost made the playoff season under their belt. Not we've been to four straight, hosted four straight AFC championship games, and we have more draft capital than pretty much every other team in the league

heading into the weekend. It's just such a weird situation. Speaking of weird situations, next question here, where do we think the quarterbacks end up? I mean, there's just so much uncertainty like you alluded to, Dane, compared to what we typically see at the top of the draft. As we inch closer here, as we're three days away, from the first round happening. Are there any landing spots that you're starting to feel good about?

Nate, you want to take this one? Because, you know, it's hard. It's hard. That could be the answer. That's totally fine. Nate, tell the people where you had the quarterback's scoring your mock. Okay, that's perfect.

And actually, that's where I said. I said my head cannon, like in my own little imaginary tells that I have in my brain, I have Malik Willis going through the Seahawks, because that's one that seems to make sense. sense to me, at least when I just talk it out and, you know, Pete Carroll's not going anywhere. Like, you know, and he actually has that kind of bulletproofness to actually like withstand. I love that. That's a great take.

Great take. He can withstand the Malik Willis timeline and somebody heat from it. That's great. I love that. That's and honestly, in my note, I said, no true insight, just gut feeling. So that, that's where I'm at with that. And honestly, I want to say picket is going to be a panther just because of the temper thing or the background.

but I have no idea with that. They're really just seemed like they're going to lie. And for me, again, this is another head canon thing is like, you know, Ritter to the Steelers just feels right at 20. And I actually, when I did my mock and I looked at yours afterwards day and I was like, oh, we both had that at 20. So I was like, I was pretty fired up about that. And also like with Ritter too is, you know, you have the, as the Titans,

a sneaky one. Like you can't overstate the Luke Fickle, Mike Ravel connection. Like that's another thing too. So like those, that's just me just kind of like, oh, those are all imaginary tells I'm having fun with in my head. Yeah, I was told that Ritter impressed the Steelers pretty well and ownership was part of that meeting as well. And Ritter, Ritter held his own, handled himself very well in that meeting. So, and it's interesting that the Seahawks, they've rented one quarterback for a 30 visit. And it was Ritter. And so that's interesting.

I don't know how to interpret that. Yeah. You know, I don't, the Seahawks haven't really been, at least publicly that we know of been in on these quarterbacks in terms of the interest level. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree with you. It makes all the sense in the world that they would do that. It's really hard to figure out, especially because rarely do we see quarterbacks, you know, teams stay put and the quarterback just fall in their laps. You know, unless you're picking a one or two, you know, Mack Jones going to the Patriots last year, where the Patriots were picking.

that just doesn't happen. It's usually we see it like the Bears trading up to get Justin Fields. So, you know, I think we're going to see a little bit of trade action with these quarterbacks. It's just, yeah, how is it going to play out? You know, like the Steelers, we've seen them be aggressive in the past. If they wanted to go get a Troy Palamalu or a Devin Bush, they'll go get their guy in the first round. Are they going to feel like they need to do that?

So the trade action with these quarterbacks is really going to be interesting. So that brings me to my next question. Who should, draft the quarterback in the first round. Because so much of the conversation over the last couple months has been that any time this is suggested, people recoil in horror. Like the idea of Malik Willis going to Detroit, people are like, oh, God. Really?

Or the idea of Kenny Pickett going six. It's like, you really want to take Kenny Pickett with the six overall pick? So Nate, which marriage between team at quarterback in the first round would not inspire that reaction from you? You would just sit there and be like, yeah, you know what? That makes sense. I actually kind of like that. If Willis Ritter did fall to 20 or if they decided pick it at 20 to the Steelers,

that's like the only one I'm like, that makes sense. At that spot, pick 20, these guys make sense. As soon as you get before 20 is when I start kind of like, you know, get a little antsy, kind of like, I don't really like that. It just feels a little too much. It's like I paid an extra 50 bucks for a concert just because my friends were going. So it's like, yeah, oh, yeah, that was fun. I get it.

I've talked myself into it. All right. I'll have a drink and I'll be okay with it. But that's what it kind of feels like, you know, when I'm like talking myself into these guys. So really that's the only one where I start to feel good. And maybe the Titans if one of these guys did fall there. Like that's like like that's it.

But those are guys, those are situations where it's like they're kind of like rebooting their looks of teams. Not I would say rebuilding, but just rebooting. So that's why it makes sense as opposed to a team that's desperate for one. Like the Panthers where I'm like, I don't know. At six, that's crazy.

They move back. Maybe we can talk about it. Do you have one day, like in the back half of the first round? if it happened, you'd be like, yeah, you know what? I kind of like that. Yeah, I mean, I think I agree with Nate at 20. That's where I think it really makes sense. And really, Malik Willis at 32 to the Lions. Two feels way too early. But 32, I mean, remember, the Lions coaching staff had Malik Willis at Senior Bowl.

You know, they've got a lot of intel on the person, the player, you know, just everything that he offers. So Malik Willis at 32, that's one where I'd be like, okay, that makes, I think value matches. you know, the timeline of where that franchise is as an offense in their culture. I think that would line up in a lot of different ways. You mentioned Tennessee, Nate. Actually, that one makes sense to me too, just because of where they are and they're in this weird middle ground where they kind of went all in with this version of the roster and they made the playoffs and they've been too good to get up there for a quarterback.

Is this weird class maybe their best chance to hit that soft reset button, and find whatever the next stage of the franchise looks like after Tannenhill, is it Desmond Ritter? Like, that's the other team that is just in the back of my mind. Like when we get toward the back half of the first round, is that a team that thinks this is our chance. This is our chance to figure out what the next version of this ends up shaping up to be. All right. Dane, pretty simple one. Who is the most intriguing team in the draft to you?

The one whose plan next weekend, you just cannot wait to see it unfold. Well, I mean, a lot of the, I think we've touched on them already. I mean, Carolina at 6, I cannot wait just to see how that plays out. The Jets at 4 and 10, I think they have a real opportunity here to, you know, assuming Zach Wilson takes that next step in year two, they have a real chance to take a jump as a team. So, you know, those two teams particularly stand out. The Saints, just because I think they're going to be aggressive are another one.

So really a lot of the teams that we've already touched. touched on are the most intriguing. So I guess just a different version of this question. Maybe a team whose plan will illuminate something about them, one that hasn't been around for a while. Is there a new regime that you want? All right, what are they going to do? Because I want to find out what type of team they want to start building.

Yeah, I think that maybe Houston. I mean, because like you mentioned, you forget they have two picks. And so they can, you know, this is the post-de-Shon-Watson era. We don't think they're taking the quarterback, but who do they see as the building blocks to what they want to build on both sides of the ball? At three, with Houston, they could go with the defensive linemen,

they could go an offensive lineman, they could go with the corner. I've heard whispers that Garrett Wilson's in play at number three. So I think that there's so many different directions Houston could go with those two picks and I'm just interested, you know, what's their plan? Nick Casario and Lovie Smith.

What's their, It just feels like the Texans have been in limbo forever. And so I want to see what their plan is, who they take at those two picks will definitely, like you say, kind of illuminate a little bit for us. How about you, Nate? Is there one you just, I want to see a light shined on this in a way that we just don't have right now? Yeah. Well, I think the most interesting team to me is the Jets because it's just what they're doing with all the stuff.

And also with the Packers, what are they going to do with that pick 22 and all that. But no, but the Giants, I want to know what they're doing with those two things. That's the one. New regime, they're kind of sort of. I mean, they really are rebuilding as a whole franchise. What are they going to do with Daniel Jones? I mean, that's further down the road. But are they going to help him out?

Or are they going to go, hey, wink, who do you want? Like, you know, are they going to just say, screw it? We'll go BPA or, like, how they kind of construct with all that draft capital that they have right now. They could really kind of like you can see what they're aiming for and going for. One other team I wanted to mention, too, is the Chargers because they just seem like they're on the brink. You know, this is a team that is ready to be a legitimate Super Bowl contender. And so who do they see as that guy at 17 that can help them get over the hump? Is it a right tackle?

Is it another receiver? Is it someone on defense that Staley really loves? So I think the Chargers are really interested to see what they do as well, especially because they don't have that second round pick. So they're not pick until the third. So who they take at one at 17 is going to be pretty important. They traded that second round pick to Chicago. Selfishly, I want to see what they do with those two second round picks.

What do they think they need? Are they really trying to build around Justin Feet? If they don't get, if they go draft Logan Hall with that first second round pick and we're picking three techniques as Justin Fields is throw into Byron Pringle and Equiminius St. Brown and everything else, it's going to tell me a lot. And it's going to tell me some things I don't necessarily want to hear. So selfishly, I'm very excited to see and very interested to see where the bears go with those picks. But I'm totally with you on the giant state. I just think that Joe Shane coming from Buffalo and what we saw in Buffalo and that. entire rebuilding process and how it went. It's just been such an instructive set of team building practices. And I want to see what that looks like replicated in some other form, but them trying to do some version of that again with the Giants and where that starts, and it starts with two top 10 picks, which is in a bad place.

All right. I want to get some more player-specific questions here about the guys actually in this draft. Dane, who do you think has the biggest possible range of where he could go among the This is the one I want to hear Dane's answer. I'm very curious. I think this almost has to be a non-quarterback question because. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Non-quarterback category. Yeah, right. So I didn't want to give a non-quarterback qualifier to all of these, but yes. For the most part, it's a non-quarterback qualifier to all of these. Yeah. So I think that we're looking at first round picks. I mean, I think that Tyler Linderbaum definitely falls in there.

There's a wide range where he could go. Chris Olivae, because on one hand, the lack of physicality, the lack of run after catch, the yak skills, that's going to bother a lot of teams. And they're just not interested in a receiver like that in the first round. But at the same time, he's pro-ready, the polish that you're getting. For some teams, that's going to be a fit, perfectly exactly what they're looking for. So he could go as early as 11, or Alave could be available in the mid-20s. I don't think that would be a surprise.

So I think Olive's got a wide range. defense. What about 39? You think you'd be able to 39? I don't think that's going to happen. I don't, you're looking more at Logan Hall there at 39.

I think that on defense, Devin Lloyd probably, you know, yeah, that's who I said. Yeah, I mean, he could go into teens.

I can see Baltimore taking them. He could slip to the bottom in the first round. I mean, off ball linebackers, you know, each team looks at them a little bit differently. Yeah.

I think Devin Lloyd can do everything. But at the same time, you know, it's just not going to be a fit forever, whatever teams looking for in the first round. How about you, Nate? Outside of Devin Lloyd, who would be your answer? Yep, Devin Lloyd, and I just said a lot of the receivers. I even saw maybe Drake London, too. Like, some teams might love them like I do, but then some teams go not fast.

Now, if we need speed, we need juice, we need guys take the top off, yada, yada, and he might drop into the 20s. I don't think he might, but that range could be interesting. George Carl Office is another one that I, that's an interesting range. And yeah, that one, I really like him. I'm a fan of his, but I could see him, some teams loving him taking him in the teens, but I can also see him falling. And not out of the first round,

but late where teams are now. Sealing concerns with him. Yeah. He's a guy that everybody has a very, it's always eye of the beholder. I'll keep saying that, but everyone has a very differing opinion on him. All of them,

everyone kind of goes, yeah, I like them, but then it's also like how much you like them. Yeah. That's where you see that big, big range on them. I know multiple teams that have second run grades on.

But I just keep coming back to, I understand that totally. Right. I just keep coming back to pass rush. I mean, I just feel like there's, there's just no way he gets out of the top, top 25, top 30, because teams want pass rush. But yeah, you never know because grades are pretty split across the league. So, Nate, this one again, let's qualify with non-quarterbacks. It's a difficult question to answer because it matters for everyone.

But I really want to zero in on somebody specifically. Which player in this class is fit matters the most to you? Like, their landing spot, even more than we typically. see is going to decide whether they sink or swim in the week. Trail on Berks. I mean, that's the perfect one to be. That is like, he could go into a situation. I'm like, this is going to be great for him, give him some time when him develop,

figure out to be a real receiver. And then there might be one where a team loves what he brings to the table, but then too much too soon, you know, too much on his plate. And it's just like, oh, my God, we're giving this guy. It's the Jalen Rager, you know, sure directory. I'm not saying that they're the same player. I know it's all the situation and all that. but just saying too much too soon.

Oh my God, this guy can't handle it. His confidence drops. And then also at the end of year, too, the whole fan base is like, get him out of here. Get him out of here. That's a guy I can really see. Another one, just on a defense side is Trent McDuffie. And I know you like him, Dana, as well. Yeah.

If certain schemes, I would love him in just like more zone heavy, let him use his intelligence, let him use his awareness. And, you know, but then if it's a man heavy, a pressure heavy scheme, I'm like a little, like, I think he'd be smart enough to maybe jump on balls, but maybe you don't want him to live in band-to-man coverage all day. Not that I think teams that do that would really prefer him. But that's a guy like, if he's in certain defenses, he would be unlocked. He'd be like, that's a good player right there.

How about you, Dan? No, that makes sense because, yeah, McDuffie, he's going to get bodied up. I mean, there will be times where it's just a matter of inches and he just doesn't have him. Burks is the first name I wrote down. So I'm with you there. On defense, I wrote down Kyle Hamilton. Because, I mean, part of the appeal with Hamilton is the versatility, all the different things

he can do for you, but it's, and maybe it's not so much the fit as it is going to a defensive coordinator that understands how to best deploy him. Because you don't really want him man to man working against the slot, you know, want him going in reverse too much. You want him split safety, working downhill, reading from depth, you know, stretching out those long legs, using that high speed metal processor that he has to go make plays. I know, you know, he's taking a lot of heat for the 45940 at the Combine, then he ran a 470 at the Pro Day. I just, I mean, who watches his tape and comes away with the conclusion that he's slow?

I mean, nobody, not a single person. So, and a big part of that is because by the time the play is happening, he's already on a second step. Like, he's so smart. He anticipates. He knows what's coming. And so I just, hopefully he goes to a scheme and a coordinator that best understands his strengths as a player and how to use.

just that unique combination of skills. It's kind of funny that he lacks speed, but you want to give him space so he can read and react. It's kind of, it's a weird thing. It's the modern safety though, right? But he's so smart. He's so smart. But it's like you want to give him space to read and react because that's how he

overcomes the speed deficiency, which is weird. Usually it's like, no, you want those fast guys to have space so they can make up for it. So it's kind of, yeah, it's interesting for him. It's like, no, you want to give him space so he can read and react. Yeah. Where would you like to see him, Dan, that you think that he would be best used? Oh, that's a tough question. Because I mean, I think that I'd like to see what Ron Rivera could do with him.

And that with like what they like to do or what they want to do. Maybe with Lovie Smith in Houston. You know, you think about some of the safeties he had with the bears those years. I mean, I think that 11, 12, 13, that's kind of a sweet spot, I think, for Kyle Hamilton. I think there's a good chance he lands somewhere in that three-pick range. And I think, you know, one of those. spots might actually make sense for him as a good fit. Yeah, Washington, I hadn't even thought about that, but I would kind of love it.

And that's a really fun fit for him there. All right. Nate, you have to pick one guy from the first round that's immediately a pro bowler, the guy that we do not have to squint from the start, somebody like last year. I'm not, Jamar Chase is a different category, right? Jamar Chase is like once every, however long. But we still have a couple others. A Kyle Pitts, a Rishon Slater, a.

Patrick Sertan where it's like, oh, shit, right away, huh? Who is that guy for you in the first round? Yeah, Sertan, I'm keeping it at that corner. And if he's healthy, I'm going to go with Derek Stingley and just being an instant contributor. Yeah, it's a little spicy. I like it. I really like him. But, you know, we've seen Marshawn Lattimore have a good rookie year.

Sertan, I know Sertan, you know, they get the accolades and everything. But I think, I think he could, he can be plop and play more than usually see with corners. I was actually pleasantly surprised from watching him. That's what's fun about him in sauce is that. and McDuffie, you watch these guys, you're like, I can see this guy contributing early, which most corners you watch, you're like, okay, he's got traits,

which is a nice way of saying he's a project. He's got traits that we're going to work on. I think I would go with, because I did think, Sauce was one of the first names that came to mind, you know, go to corner. I'm going to go with Zion Johnson. I think that, you know,

like he goes to Dallas at 24 or the Bucks at 27, where, you know, he's going to a decent line, a good offense where, you know, it's a little bit of light would be on him because obviously that's part of it for an offensive lineman as a rookie if you're going to be able to be a pro bowler. I mean, Zion Johnson's NFL ready. Like there's maybe one of the knocks on him is he's probably, you know, the upside,

maybe not theirs because he's already maybe hit that ceiling, but that ceiling's pretty good. He's stout. I mean, his body control, his intelligence, his play strength. I love how he stays centered at the point of contact. So I think Zion Johnson, if he goes to the right team, that that could be one of the guys that contends for maybe Pro Bowl status. All right, Dan, who is this year's Peyton Turner? The guy that he's going to go in the back after the first round and somebody watching at home is going to be like, what? Who?

Who that was that? Well, it's just, let's keep it with Houston defensive linemen. The aforementioned Logan Hall. I love it. You know what? He deserves to go in the first round. He absolutely does. Everything I've heard.

guy deserves to be a first round pick. I don't, I don't, he might, I don't think he makes it too far if he doesn't. So, I, Cincinnati at 31 is really interesting fit as a, as a three technique, but also a guy that can move to the edge. So I really like Logan Hall there. Then the other name that came to mind, Quay Walker. I think a lot of people, and they think of Georgia linebackers, they immediately think the Kobe Dean.

But Quay Walker, I wouldn't be surprised because the first linebacker drafted ahead of Devin Lloyd, ahead of Nicopi D. He's got the size of a defensive end. He's 6-4-2-2-4-2-8-2, under 6-9 in the 3-cone. He has a versatility that a lot of teams like because he can rush, he can play the run, he can drop in coverage.

He didn't allow a touchdown this year as a cover defender. So I wouldn't be shocked if the Patriots took by 21. In a lot of ways, he's the perfect Belichick linebacker. So, Quay Walker, I think, Phil answers this question to him. We talked a lot about the physical profile, modern linebackers, where they're being drafted, what's successful in the show that we did with Deonté last week. And that length has become such a priority.

And you see it. I mean, the guys that have been successful, length is a huge part of it. And this is a guy with 96 percentile wing span, like you said, six three and three quarters. I mean, he is a big, big dude, which is so funny because Nicopi Dean is not a big, big dude. They're the opposite ends of the spectrum. and what teams see in those two body types, I think is absolutely fascinating. All right. Nate, how about you?

I went with Tyler Smith from Tulsa, offensive tackle. I think this guy. You like Tyler Smith? I would never take him in the first round, but I do like him. Dude's got to work on his hands, man. He, every snap, he looks like, you know, it's Easter. But it's a lot with him is he's a guy that I could see NFL teams talking themselves into. He has that kind of those traits.

those movement skills that like I said, this, again, this exercise with the mock and seeing like where the tackles went and the penning goes and the team goes, all right. So what if a team, okay, a team does move up from the 20s and they move back. Okay, so that means a team from the teens or the, you know, the early picks is moving back into the 20s. What if they do really want to get a tackle? You know, all those guys that everyone's making a run for, the receivers are gone. All those other premium positions are gone. They're like, oh, shoot, who's the best guy on our board? Well, this guy, you know, you liked them, right, Bob? Like, you know, like they, they The old line coach loves him.

The old line coach says he gets his hands on him. Get Bob in here. Get Bob in here. Exactly. That's what that's what happens. So, but it's like they get, but I could see a team talking themselves and do them in the late first.

I really can't just because of movement stuff. Again, I wouldn't take him before pick 50. But it's, but another one. And this is more, if anyone's been on football Twitter, they won't shut up about it is Sky Moore,

a receiver from Western Michigan. I looked this morning, his over under and his pick position was at 34 and a half, which stunning to me. I really like him. But again, this guy, I thought more of it was a second round type. But that's another guy that. Who the hell's Skymore?

Where the hell's Western Michigan? Oh, no, I should say that's a directional school. That's not that. But that guy. And another receiver is Christian Watson, who me and Dan have talked about before. But that's a guy, North Dakota State receiver that, you know, is getting a lot of overhype from teams just because, you know, his traits and the senior bowl stuff.

So that's a guy that I can maybe see sneaking in, even if I don't agree with it. You know who Sky Moore reminds me of? Golden tape. I've never heard that before. That's a good one. That's a good one. It's because of his body type. All right.

Dane, who falls? Who is the guy? And I'm not talking about a Tyler Linderbaum that we think could go in the top 15 that ends up going 31. I'm talking about somebody who you've seen mocked in the first round that we don't see come off the board in the first 75 picks. Yeah, I mean, that's tough because, I mean, how often do we see that? But I do.

All right. Let's say outside the top 50. Let's say the back half of the second round for somebody that you've seen consistently go in the first round in box. I mean, I think maybe some of these receivers, because we've talked about so many receivers sneaking in there, like a George Pickens who, you know, has X traits, you know, but coming off the ACL and, you know, just as a route runner,

he's still coming along. I wouldn't be surprised maybe if he doesn't go as early as some people think. And then a few of the injury guys, like Andrew, Boo from Clemson the corner. You know, corner is such a stopwatch position. We don't have any testing numbers on him. Go stopwatch. Right. So for some teams, that's, that's going to matter. Maybe that drops him out of the first round. And then a guy we mentioned earlier with the Georgia linebackers, Nikobi Dean, you love what you see on tape, but the lack of size, the fact that he's another guy, no pre-draft testing data. I'm not saying he should fall, but I don't think it'd be a mystery

if he's still available on Friday night. How about you, Nate? Who's going to be sitting there at pick 47? Like, man, I can't believe back. The guy who's been number one on DJ's board the entire day, like he just has been sitting there, sitting there, sitting there. Who is that guy? Oh, man, but Andrew Booth was my first one, same reasons.

Dane laid out injury concerns. You just don't know, and especially high weight speed, you know, that's like, okay, if that's your calling card, what can you, what do you hang your hat on? So I can see teams kind of like overthinking, not overthinking it, but really having that concern with him. love the pickings one too because that seems to be a late buzz one's like you know he's been around for a few years guys um but the other one uh is for me and this is just a i don't think this happens but this just is a non-injury

category non you know the guy just falls and that's traillan burkes and that's just because just those things we've laid out before on multiple shows teams just finally just go i don't know and they just don't pull the trigger not saying he falls to 60 but maybe he does end up in that early second mid-second just because the concerns we've laid out and the teams just don't want that. All right. Dane, who is the biggest risk in the first round? Let me qualify this. I'm talking like Caleb Farley last year, where you understand the swing, but you're

kind of holding your breath for the team that ultimately pulls the trigger on it. So I think a couple of... Non-quarterback is maybe a potential qualifier here as well. Right. No doubt. No, yeah. The Malik Willis. Yeah.

I think that it's funny how many answers could be Trailerl & Burks here throughout the this whole thing. But a couple of tackles, I think, fit this. Trevor Penning got a northern Iowa. I'm a big fan of his, 6-7, 325. He had the best 10-yard split, 20-yard split of any lineman at the combine. So an outstanding athlete at that size, you love the 34-5-inch arms. He's intelligent.

He's got that aggressive mentality. So if I'm selling Penning in a war room, it's not too hard. But again, this is an FCF player who is not used to facing top-tier pass rushers. and if he doesn't develop a more consistent timing and placement with his hands, all those selling points I just mentioned really won't matter because at the NFL level, past rushers would be able to break him down in space. We know offensive line in the NFL is such a technical position. So because his long-term success is so tied to his development with his hands and his pad level,

it's a projection. And yes, technique is fixable, but it's also a muscle. memory thing and by no means a guarantee that he'll get there. So I think with Trevor Penning, there is some risk there when you factor in all those, all those concerns. And then the second guy who Nate brought up before Tyler Smith at a Tulsa, I mean, a lot of the same reasons. There's a good chance he does go first round. He's explosive. You're excited about, you know, his trajectory and what he's going to be. But it's a huge projection. And so, I mean, it's just, that's a huge risk. We have seen worse

tackles than Tyler Smith going the first round. But I mean, I'm with Nate. I mean, he's, he's a project. Stamp of approval. Yeah. And that's why I wouldn't be surprised. But I think Tyler Smith was, I think it was 50 on my, my top 100 board. So I'm with Nate on that one.

Yeah. Nate, who you got for me? Yep. That penning was my big one. Okay. Penning is a bet on your O line coach. That, that's, it's, if I have Mike Munchak in the building, Dante Scarnackia. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Come on. Let's go. Let's develop them. But if you don't, I went for Derek Stingley, also just because of the injury stuff. You don't know if that is a reoccurring thing for him. And also it's like, yeah, he has all the flashes. And it's kind of funny. He said Caleb Farley because I was like, oh, we'll just keep it to corners. This is easy. Then my second one was hell, Malik Willis, but then we realized that was too easy. Yeah, we got to build a little bit more difficulty. Shrelai Berks is another answer I had. Even even the potential number one pick, Trayvon Walker, is a risk. It's that he is the home run swing

And then what happens when he swing for home runs You can strike out So that that's just another one as well Yeah relative to where Chavall Walker is going to go Absolutely 100% Yeah All right Dane who is the guy in five years

We're going to look back on back I cannot believe he went there And some of the guys that I had in mind When I was thinking of this question Like Tyrone Matthew Going in the third round Keenan Allen going in the third round Where we just get a little too far in the weeds

And we ignore the fact That sometimes good players are just good players. Well, how about a guy that is maybe the closest thing to the Honey Badger in this draft? And I think that's Jalen Petrie out of Bailey. Super versatile player. He's on the edge one play. He's in the box the next.

When you watch him on film, sometimes he's a true nickel in the slot, then he's a split safety. Dave Iranda just used him everywhere. So you wish you were a little bit bigger. He's 511, 198, but the athletic versatility, the spatial awareness that he plays with, the competitive energy. all reasons why I think he could end up being a stud, but he might not be drafted in the top 50 picks. I love that.

That's perfect. He's one of my answers in a couple questions, so I'm pretty excited that he mentioned him. Yeah. For mine, and this won't be a surprise if anyone heard our receiver podcast or see my rankings, and that's Justin Ross. And that's just because of injuries, that's nothing with him. And that's just something, he's not probably going day one or day,

no, obviously not day one, but obviously probably not day two either because of the injury stuff. Love the player, but he might be a guy. What if that 5% that he ends up being fully healthy, it's like, wow. Wow, how this guy dropped to the fifth? And it's like, because he has a spinal contusion. Like you guys just, well, we forget about the injury stuff. And this is another one is Drake Jackson, is another guy that I think, yeah, just how he was utilized at USC, the weight fluctuation.

Pass rusher from USC. I'm sorry, edge, yeah, from USC. And really, I mean, did a little bit of everything. But yeah, but just, I would say edge for now. But just how he's utilized. and also just like he has some traits that are hard to teach. It's just that he's not a complete player yet. But that might be a guy.

He gets in a right situation, can develop in a few years. It's like, wow, this guy really put it together. The other one would be, but he might go in the first round. I don't think we're really overthinking this too much. Would be Arnold. Ebukati.

Am I saying that right, Dane? Ebuketi, yeah. Epicchetti, yeah, yeah. From Penn State, late transfer to Penn State. And just another guy that's more of a traits bet that in a few years. If it hits, you're like, wow, this guy really, you know, really came along in the right situation.

Dan, I love that you do the phonetic spelling in the beast. It's such a nice little touch that you do. It's as much for me as it is for you guys. I mean, trust me. I sincerely appreciate it every time. No, I'm glad I'm going to, I want to talk about Evicketty here in a little bit some more. But I'm glad you brought up Jake Jackson because Jackson, in my preseason top 50, I mean, he was like a top 15 guy. I was a big Drake Jackson fan.

I heard of them. Yeah. A big part of that. was what he did as a freshman. He was so good. And you mentioned the weight fluctuation at the combine. Drake Jackson was 254. At the pro day, he was 20 pounds heavier.

And that tells me that scouts got into his ear and said, or into his agent's year and said, hey, get back up to where you were as a freshman, where you had not only had this athletic ability, but you had power. You could win at the point of attack. And so it's interesting. They wanted to make it more of a linebacker in that new scheme. They brought in with the coaches. Todd Orlando scheme, that B-backer that they used.

But getting him back to being more of a hand on the ground, defensive end, can play the run, and also give you juice as a pass-rusher. I love that call. I think Drake Jackson, he probably will go somewhere in the 35 to 65 range and could absolutely end up out playing that draft squad. Nate, if somebody told you tomorrow, you have to gain 20 pounds in three weeks.

What's the first thing you'd do? Oh, donuts. Oh, great call. A.M. M. P.m. Capp each day with donuts. Oh, that's a fantastic call. I don't know how I know that because I had to gain 20 pounds.

So it was a lot of PV&J sandwiches and donuts. I would go get a dozen in the morning and then I would just get an entire pizza for myself for dinner. That was that day one. That's exactly what it would be. Yeah. That's what I go with. That's when Christian Bale got cast as Batman. He had just done the other movie, The Machinist, where he got down at 1.30.

Yep. And then he just did he just bulked up without doing any cardio because and they just started calling him fat man because he didn't fit in the suit because he got so big because he gained so much weight so quickly. But well, Christian Bail trivia for you. Dane, how about you?

What's the first thing you're eating if you got to gain 20 pounds in three weeks? I'm just probably going to Taco Bell three times a day. Oh, that sounds another amazing answer. So my brother, my brother's getting married and he's getting Taco Bell as his late night food. So he called me yesterday and asked my opinion about. about how he's literally ordering 300 items from Taco Bell. So we got we got to build a menu of 300 Taco Bell items yesterday. And that is as somebody who loves Taco Bell more than my favorite fast food of all

time by far, I used to live down the street from one in Chicago. Sometime in your life, just pick out 300 items from Taco Bell. Just like let loose and do it. It was an experience. I tried to do the in and out truck at my wedding. But it's California only. Nevada doesn't do it. But yeah, that was that was a dream right there.

almost almost got it god now i really want taco bow i'm my wife and i after our wedding uh 10 years ago that's that's where we went we hit up taco bell in the way to the hotel so yeah i so much respect for that's exactly what i will probably be doing on my wedding night all right Nate who is the guy that we just overthought in this process that we got two in our heads about and we're talking just in general the the royal we or are we talking about like me personally because either way you you answer this however you feel is best buddy you trust yourself here okay a couple here uh i think in general we got we overthought jordan davis a little bit i think we have come back to where it's it's nice and centered i think we're pretty good with him i would

say personally i overthought james and williams a little bit uh just going oh he's too skinny you can't do anything and then i kind of rewatched them it's again you watch them first you watch everybody and then you kind of start rewatching guys and you're like i like his game a lot more than i originally said like it started watching all the nuances he had to his game um breese hall running back from Iowa State would be another one that I may be because he was my first watch because everyone had heard about him how productive he was and again his game his game I appreciated more the other one else I'll throw him one more and that's uh jail and Tolbert from South Alabama that's another receiver I overthought him personally I know that's this is a day two guy so I'm not really saying the sexy names right now but uh those guys and then the last one I was say we already mentioned was Devin Lloyd uh just a guy that I couldn't and I'll talk about him again a little bit but a guy I maybe overthought one and wanted more And then I realized what he did bring to the table. And I started to like him a little more when I kind of really got his game kind of down. How about the Royal Week?

How about somebody that you've seen Nick picked the death that he's like, I can't believe we're doing this. Like I we're going to. Okay. Chris a lobby for me. Because I just, I, I don't know if Dane would agree with this, but he's one of the, no guy safe, but one of the safest receiver prospects I've watched, even with the skinniness, just as his game. And I just think he's useful, even if his cap might be a good number two. I just think that's a guy

that's just going to be a useful football player. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I think it's, yeah, with a lot of it, it comes down to more, you know, where you drafted him as opposed to, is he a good football player? Or, you know, is he a guy we want on our team? And, I mean, trust me, I'm,

I live in Ohio, so I've been watching him since, you know, his freshman year makes plays. Yeah, really, freshman year against Michigan scoring touchdown. So, I mean, you can tell right away something's different with him with just the, the polish that he had back then as a freshman he just it just came naturally to him yeah i've said this before i just don't trust the frame and he shouldn't go before 39 and i'm not going to get off of that

it's just i sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand dane when you're having these conversations about prospects and that's where i am with chriselovey hey give give polls uh gem of the year right now if that happens if that happens all right who's yours dane just the guy that maybe you've thought a little bit in the process and you're kind of stepping back from and the guy that you think we as a group have overthought a little bit too much. Yeah, for me, I think I tend to overthink guys when the testing numbers or the verified measurables fall short of expectations. And I think that was the case with a few guys this year.

Auburner, Roger McCreary, so much fun to watch on tape. Feisty player can line up inside outside, throw the Iron Bowl tape on and just watch them stay attached to Metchie up and down the field. but then we get the official measurements and he's under 29 inches arm length, not under 30, not under 31, he's under 29. And then he's a 4-5 athlete.

He couldn't crack 4-5. So in terms of speed, not ideal. So the list of NFL corners with short arms and 4-5 speed, it's not a long one. So you go back to the tape and he just realized, man, this guy's just, he's just a good player.

And so as much as I want to, I'm just going to have to trust the tape on a guy like this. And, you know, it's always tough saying that because, you know, there's certain things that, like, there's value in the numbers and things like that. But I'm going to trust the tape on this guy. I think he's a second round player all day. And then the collective we, I mean, I'm going back to Traylon Burks. You know, like I said, he's a guy we could answer for a lot of these questions.

But with Burks, and myself included, I mean, Garrett Wilson's been my guy since the start. He's been my wide receiver one, no wavering there. but Berks at one point was my wide receiver too, primarily based on the film grade, but then he goes to the combine, runs a 4-55. My spies at Arkansas told me he was close to 240 pounds towards the end of the season.

He doesn't try to run the 40 again at the pro day, which tells me he's happy with the 455. So you go back to the tape, and all of a sudden, maybe some of the issues that you had with them become a little more apparent. He's raw as a route runner. He struggles against press.

you know, he just has a long way to go. And so I just, I found it very easy to waver on Burks. I think a lot of people are in that camp, especially when you try to, in a vacuum, it's true, but also when you try to stack him with Alave and Drake London and the other receivers this year, that's where it becomes really easy to waver on a guy like this. Absolutely. Just because his skill set, we just talked about it. Maybe more situation-based.

You have to just squeeze in and think about it a little bit more because it's not as traditional. I mean, there's so many different considerations. By the way, I cannot wait until Traylon Brooks goes when we're alive this weekend. Yeah. I mean, just have all the – just one of those guys. And there's 10 of them, right? Like when Jordan Davis comes off the board, like what is the reaction going to be? When Olavé goes.

But Berks is somebody who just come back to so many times. It's kind of why I wanted to do this early in the week. Just like stoke some of the things that we're excited about. So that's just one of those – when that happens, very much looking forward to it. All right. Dane, who outside the top 100 is going to be a day one starter? somebody that just is one of those surprise stories in camp. It's like, oh, man, that guy looks great.

Somebody that came to mind when I was thinking of this question, like Jordan Ford, goes in the sixth round and then just comes in and is immediately a starting level contributor for the team that drafts him. I love this question. I mean, day three is my favorite day. There's going to be players that come out of that group. And I look at the running back class this year. We're going to see some running backs go on day two, obviously.

Breeze Hall, Kenneth Walker, you know, Isaiah Spiller is probably there. Maybe one or two sneak in there. but a ton of running back should coming off the board on day three. And in the right situation, could there absolutely be a James Robinson in that group? No doubt. But I think a lot of that's going to be situation-based. At receiver, if there's a darnel Moody in this class, a day three speedster who's just too good to keep off the field, and it becomes clear quickly that he needs to be out there in the starting lineup or at least seeing starter-level snaps,

I think SMU's Danny Gray is that guy. legit 4-3 speed. I don't be interested to see what Nate thinks about about Gray. I loved watching him on tape because he's making plays at all three levels. He's a young player, still figuring out how good he can be. So Danny Gray would be my answer on

offense. One of my favorite day three guys this year is Oklahoma State linebacker, Malcolm Rodriguez. A little undersized, but very, very smart. He understands football geometry, so he's going to find that quickest route to the football. He sorts through things, lightning quick,

He was a state champion wrestler in high school, and that shows as a tackler and when he gets off blocks. So if he goes to the right situation where there's a path for him to push for starting reps, Rodriguez absolutely could win that job in camp. And I think coaches are just going to love the diagnose skills, the competitive toughness, a big fan of Rodriguez. Nate, how about you? Who's your guy?

My first one would be Kate Otten, tight end for Washington. And that's just a guy I could see having a role early because of just his, I guess, well-roundedness would be a decent. way to put it, but I liked him as a blocker. That was one of the things that appealed to me as, as him. I've seen some question marks about him. I didn't. I liked him.

I thought he was good already. A true Y tight end. And that's why I think he could play early where it's outside of top 100. You take him in the fourth round. And all of a sudden it's like, wow, this guy, we have a rookie starting tight end who's playing 20 snaps for us, 18 snaps for us because he's just, you know, decent blocker. And my kind of more of a receiver's better or a quarterback's best friend underneath as a receiver, not like a guy you're going to dial up plays for on third down.

But on defense, I say Darym Beaver's from Cincinnati. And that's just another guy. And he might be, he might sneak in day two. But if we're going outside, maybe more of a day three guy, can I do a lot of things well? It's kind of hard to figure out what he hangs his hat on completely. But I like his size a little bit. And I like just, I could see him get into the right spot where they just kind of go, okay, this is what you're in now.

This is what you're running. And we get him into a good role for him where you can really see his traits come out. But that's another one that I like. And I like, and I like, what Dane brought up. I do think there's a lot of good backs. They're going to go in that fourth round that area. And I think, you know, of course, one or two of them going to end up playing a ton. I mean, there's, I mean, Rashad Way. I've talked about it with you, Dane from Arizona State. Pierce, I mean, that's just a couple. And there's a few more that a lot of people like as well.

All right. We got five more here. Let's run through these. Dane, who is one guy, in your opinion, that will go outside the top three at his position, but could develop into the best guy of the bunch at that spot. It's a couple of people I'm thinking of. Justin Jefferson is like this. Max Crosby in 2019 fits this bill a little bit. Mark Andrews. It's like this in 2018.

Darius Leonard. Who's that kind of guy for you in this draft? I mean, the low-hanging fruit here is whoever the fourth receiver runs up being. That's a cheap one. Great answer. Alavi, Wilson, Jameson, Drape, whoever's the fourth one, I think, is the answer. But this is where I want to talk about Arnold Epacetti from Penn State, who probably it won't be one of the five pass rushers, first five pass rushers drafted, but he's long,

he's twitched up, even if he's only a specialist as a rookie, where he's a sub-package guy, and if they just let him loose, he's a guy that won't surprise me if he has eight to 12 sacks as a rookie. I think that's possible for him in the right situation. He also, he made more plays away from the line of scrimmage than maybe any other defensive end that I've scouted the last few years. The motor just doesn't quit on this guy. He chases down plays in a big way. And that's something that obviously will appeal to coaches and get him on the field pretty quickly. Nate, how about you? Yeah, I was, I was Jaywin Petrie here at safety. And just because versatility is going to become more and more important, especially at the safety spot, he can play

slot, which is huge for just what he can do. He's great on pressures. So I love that. Dane said, he's like, well, we're talking about Honey Badger. And that's actually even my know. I said, give him to the chiefs and I would love it. I mean, I would freaking love him with Spags. Like I love that's one of my favorite kind of player to team fits. George Carl Office would be my other one at Edge. Just just because you don't know like how he hits and we're just going outside of top three.

That's like another one that's like he's probably one of the fourth or fifth guy. So that's all right. I frame the question. It's on me. I'll go last one. And the last one I already mentioned his name would be Rashad White, the running back from Arizona State. Just, I think his trade size speed and just,

I like a lot about him. His balance is pretty damn good, which is like stunned me, especially catching the ball. And yeah, that's also why I like him too because he's a good receiver as well. All right,

Dane, this is for you. This is a way to kind of sit in all the work that you've done. Who is your favorite guy that you watched in this process? Just that the tape put a smile on your face. It was enjoyable. All right. It's a true story. Every Sunday morning in the fall,

I wake up, you know, we, the family, we go to church. And then I, come home and I check my system to see which college football tapes have been uploaded from the day before. The first school that I would check every single Sunday last fall was NC State because I wanted to see what Icky was doing to the whoresoles he was going up against the day before.

The explosiveness, the violence that he plays with. It was so much fun watching the ascension with him in pass protection because watching him over the summer loved them, But he was clearly a better run blocker than pass protector. But to see his pass protection get better with every single game this year was awesome. So loved watching Ikey every week. And then two SEC guys that also fit that category for me. Jameson Williams on offense. I mean, just watching Alabama on Saturdays.

His speed is so special that you knew at any given play, something big was about to happen, something explosive. A few players can make SEC secondaries. look slow, but Williams can do that. And then on defense, Trayvon Walker, that's been my guy since the fall. This guy's the ultimate freak. And while it was fun watching his tape, it would also be frustrating, too,

because the way he was used, I want more. Yeah, right. I mean, every 10 plays, it's like, okay, I know something's coming, but I got to wait and through the, just, you know, what they're asking him to do. So, but some of the things that he was doing on tape

was alien-like. So, I mean, this guy is so toolsy. the traits are off the charts. So it was a lot of fun watching Georgia for a lot of reasons, but mostly Tron Walker for me. Nate, how about you? Oh, Chris Olavé. Just, I love his game.

Him and Jahan Dotson were joys for me. Shout out to the Big Ten, producing some receivers. So that was fun. Other ones, I was Derek Stingley was also one of my favorite watches. I watched them at the beginning of year and then have circled back to watching the DVs again. And it's like, God, I just like the player a lot. And then just like last two, I like Khalil Shakira a lot. Tyler Algier, I love watching him from BYU, just a fond physical back.

Those guys are always just going to be great to watch when they're carrying three guys or running over dudes and seeking out contact. And then the last one, the quarterback shout out, be Bailey zappy because I, I loved it because it showed me what I could have done with my arm. Like if I were, you know, like I committed, got to the right system and stuff because, you know, he's got popcorn arm, but you know, he knows exactly what he is and he knows exactly what he has to get done. And when you're just watching quarterbacks, especially college quarterbacks, it's really refreshing to go, look at this, dude. Everything's on time. And that was just a guy I just loved watching because it was fun watching him because he knew what he was too.

He's going to be in the league for 10 years. He is. He is. He's going to be Case Keatom, you know, that type of guy. And the intelligence is a big part of that. Yep. All right. We're three days away, Dane.

Who is the guy you still can't figure out? All right. So for me, it's still Jordan Davis. Like, this is a player that when a player takes a jump from one year to the next, okay, especially your junior year to your senior year, you try to figure out why. And what led to that increased production, the increased impact? Sometimes it's as easy as just saying a player matured and, you know, things slowed down for him. I think that's kind of what we saw with Kenny Pickett.

Things just kind of clicked a little bit more at his final year. But with Davis, part of the reasoning for his improved play is he didn't play as many snaps. The average snap count went from 33 as a junior to 25 as a senior. And that allowed him to conserve energy, keep his legs alive, stay fresh. We're talking about a 350 plus pound guy. So that's important. But what happens in the NFL when you're going to ask Davis to play 40 plus snaps per game? I think to me, I do question, can he sustain that level of energy, that high level of play on a more consistent basis?

So my issues with Davis are not about. talent, not about traits. It just comes down to snap count and, you know, that the total impact. So, you know, figuring out where exactly I feel comfortable drafting this guy. You know, like, I think he, he ended up like 24 overall in my top 50 board, you know, just trying to figure out exactly where I felt comfortable taking a player where I do have some questions about how many snaps he's giving me and will he be able to sustain that for all those snaps. 24 is a cowards ranking. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely.

Absolutely it is. Because what's the question? Guys, you still can't figure out. Yeah. Absolutely. It's great. Yeah.

I love it. All right. Nate, where's your coward ranking? Well, who's that's that way was for you? This is the Treon-Berkes podcast. So that's Trail on Berks.

Yeah, but honestly, him and, him and I already mentioned. They're like 23rd on your, on your big board. I actually think that's exactly where he is. It's right there.

And then the other one, actually is Devin Lloyd a little bit. That was another guy. I just, every time I watch him, I think of them different. And I've come around on being more positive on him.

But that's another guy. It's just like, ah, just every time I just can't, can't fully figure it out. But, yeah, Traylon Burks, though, is just one of the weirdest prospects I've ever watched,

just period. Just like I, it just, he breaks my brain every time. Dan, you got a little ahead of me with this one, this next one here. And I think the answer you gave is probably the right one.

Which team in your mind can finish off a contending roster in this draft? With the right, two, three picks, it's like, all right, they're there. They are right there. Well,

I'm going to go with a little, curveball here. Because, you know, the example that, you know, we talked about with the Bucks, with Wurfs and Winfield, I'm going back to the Bucks. And look, I know they're already, you know, a contender, but you had a first round guard, Zion Johnson, can you agree to fill that, that void left guard, left by Alamar Pett's retirement? And then in the second round, say Gromk doesn't come back. You get the first tight end off the board, Tray McBride, who's NFL ready, because that's a big part of this, you know, able to step in from day one, make an impact.

If Gronk does return, then maybe you go to the defensive line, get a guy like Perry on Winfrey out of Oklahoma, someone that can help create that disruption on the defensive line. So, yeah, I think you can get the buck supply for this, again, if they make the right picks here in the first two rounds. I love it.

Nate, how about you? Oh, I'm boring. I went Chiefs and Packers. Kind of a, kind of a, kind of a, that was barely counts. No shit answer. I love that buck's answer. That is a great one.

That's a good one. It is a curveball. I appreciate that. Yeah, no, and I agree with that, though. Yeah, they get a guard and, like, look at the offense again. And then also, like, and the tight end, I had him go with Ruckard, but McBride as well, like, same thing. Like, that's, they get another startable. And then it's like, okay, where are their weaknesses at?

Okay, maybe find a safety. Like, you know, it's like they are sitting in a good spot. But yeah, I went, I went chiefs just like, I mean, come on. Like, I'm not, I'm not that most creative guy in the world, but. Who are the chiefs taken to finish off the roster? I went with the guy or our boy and that's why I have to look at the pronouncinge I'm Katie I'm Katie I had him at the end of the first I still can't get it man I actually had them taking trail on Berks with their second first rounder but I yeah that was kind of a like okay

that's one place maybe again it's a coward's fit that's what that is yeah exactly so I had him like but I think they could take some chances too on some of these guys and then I actually think I did have Petrie going there in the second round um to them as well so like that I could see them getting a couple. They just didn't need it. Those two teams, Packers and Chiefs, they just need to hit on two of these guys. You know, just two, two of the six or seven picks that they might end up with. Just two guys have to be contributors early and they can take a leap.

Like, that's a fun proposition. Mine's the Chargers. They hit some juice with a receiver in the first round. They get a tackle and, like, maybe they find some speed a little bit later in the draft even without that second round pick. That's the one I kept coming back to for that. All right. Last one. Dane, what are your two bold predictions about this,

draft 72 hours away. So I think at least seven receivers go first round, which has only happened once. 2004, that was the Larry Fitzgerald, Roy Williams, that group. But, you know, because I think, what, five is a lock maybe? I feel comfortable saying that. And then we just have to get two more in there. It eight's not crazy, which would be a record. So wide receiver is going to fly off the board.

And also, you know, talking about the wide receiver contracts, teams looking to get younger, cheaper at the position. I think that plays into this as well. And then Tyler Linderbaum falling out of the first round. I don't know how bold that is or not. At this point, it feels like it's been a roller coaster with Tyler Linderbaum. But he's just being a center only, being scheme specific, the lack of length, I think that is going to drop him.

And a team in the second round is going to get a darn good player. The Jets have two picks in the 30s there in that early second round. I think that's a possible landing spot for him. man i mean that that's that's a possibility um but linderbom falling out of the first round i think there's a good chance that happens it's a perfect fit too right schematically in the things that they do and i mean there was a time where he was getting mocked to them in the top 10 if they if they ended up getting him in the 30s be fantastic all right nate your bold prediction about this draft yeah and i i went with this and this is if it's almost like a uh the flip side of linderbom does

go in the first i i had eight offense alignment going the first round which isn't too crazy but it's there's been more than that but eight offense alignment because i think smith gets bumped up into their um other bold predictions i say jamesson williams is the first receiver taken and also the packers don't take a receiver in the first round of course because that'd be too fun yeah too fun and i don't think they do it i i don't know this the size thresholds they have it's weird i don't know if they i don't see them almost it's like a lobby or something i don't know it's weird for me it's like i it's they they're they're the packers they they stick to their guns they do their own way they, you know, they're marching to their own beat.

So I think, I don't know. I don't know if they break it just for this year. But who knows? It's a crazy year. Olave makes so much sense. So much sense. But they don't draft guys that are sub 190 pounds. You know, they don't, it's just not their MO.

But yeah, I agree. Olave, I mean, plug them into that. Chemistry immediately in training camp with Rogers. Smarty is. Yep. Oh, yeah. It'd be perfect fit. I know.

I know. I hope. And my last one, I just want to throw this in here is Charles Cross goes in the top five. Hmm. If Chris Olave goes to the. Packers. I don't know if I'll ever watch football again. Oh, man. He's going to be so annoying. Oh, yeah. All he does is get away. I seriously don't know what I would do. I would be so,

so sad. And now it's going to be inevitable. All right. Gentlemen, this is fun as hell. If you guys enjoyed this, we're doing it again. Three days from now. Live from Las Vegas during round one, the three of us will be coming to you the entire time during the draft. Every single pick from the first 32 will have our reactions. Deante Lee is going to be joining us. Lindsay Jones, a couple of our athletic writers. Please come check that out on YouTube. Wherever you watch the athletic football show, it will be available to you.

Really, really excited about what that's going to look like. Very glad that we're getting a chance to do it. In the meantime, please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. Please subscribe to the athletic. It's where you can read Dane's seven-round months. mock all of the crazy draft covers that he has done. It's the only place you can get the Beast. It is worth, that's worth your subscription right there,

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