The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The biggest questions heading into training camp, with Mike Golic Jr.

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Training camp is upon us. What are the biggest questions we have as we usher in the 2024 NFL season? Robert Mays and Mike Golic Jr. from the DraftKings Network ask theirs on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Host: Robert MaysWith: Mike Golic Jr.Executive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Mike on X: @mikegolicjr Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, a fun show for you guys today. Michael Jr. is going to be joining us to chat about the biggest questions we have as training camp gets going. It's an exciting time of the year. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to bring the same level of excitement today. I am feeling pretty under the weather. So if I have some little blips or I don't sound great, hopefully you guys can give me a little bit of grace.

I'm happy that it's happening now. and not when I'm actually on the road for training camp. That's a little bit of a blessing, but so many things to be pumped up about as we get toward camp. It's July 18th. The Bears and the Texans have already reported. So we've already got the ball rolling on some of this, but most of these teams are going to be getting to town on the 23rd,

getting started on the 24th. So Mike joined me to run through just the things that we are watching, the biggest questions we have as training camps get going in 2024. So let's get to it. joining us now the co-host of the gojo and gollock podcast and you may know him from his just prolific candy and snack content that he's putting out on the internet it is my golic junior mike how you doing man i'm doing well man appreciate you having me and uh yeah i've found my one true calling in life i was i always thought my dream was to be a football player and then i crapped out after a certain

point in that thought it might be broadcaster after that but the candy lane has really been a nice home so i appreciate you still letting me talk about football even though it's clearly not the expertise. You went to Japan like a month after I did. And I should have warned you about the amount of Kit Kat varieties that are available when you go to Japan. There's a, there's a store in Japan. It's pretty much in every city. It's like a Walmart adjacent store called Don Quixote. And they have like a thousand varieties of Kit Katz. I can't even describe to you the granularity of the flavors that are available. And I knew I could have counted on you to try every single one of them every last one of them and you're right the granularity but also the overwhelming accuracy

and loyalty to the flavor they're trying i didn't know baskin robins was so big over there one of the kit cat flavors just straight up baskin robin strawberry ice cream and i've never been transported to an actual good that the kit cat's trying to replicate the way i have for that it's a great the don quixote in general first off you did an outstanding job with some recommendations for restaurants so I owe you a very public thank you for that. Happy to do. It's my lane. The Don Quixote having a full-on thrift store on the couple of top levels

where you can buy like refurbished and reused handbags and all that stuff. What an incredible building. It's absolutely insane. The one we went to in Osaka, my wife was just horrified by the lions and the entire vibe of the whole thing. The different, the slight differences

in some of the kickout flavors. There's a macho one, but there's also a macho latte one. and they're just a little bit different. Like, it's a little bit creamier. And the one that was crazy to me is they're in a lot of Japanese baked goods. They'll do this like red bean paste that they'll put in, you know, certain cookies and certain, like, you know, they do these little fish shaped baked goods that you can buy at various street markets.

And the subtle difference in how sweet and savory the strawberry and red bean kit cat was from the normal strawberry one, I was like, these guys got it figured out. I don't know how they do it, but these guys got it figured out. I also don't know, and this is a larger tangent, just about the way that fast food companies and candy companies outsource all of their best stuff to other countries. Like the best version of McDonald's does not exist in the state. I saw a mile line long Taco Bell line at the Tokyo Dome for a baseball game there because I'm sure they've got something freaky in there too when it comes to the menu items. But you're right, the Kit Katz, how have we missed out on red bean paste for so long? That stuff is a delightful addition to the dessert repertoire out there.

It's somewhere between a chocolate and a compote, and I can't figure out what it's more, but it's wonderful. It's just making me want to go back. The Cubs are opening their season there against the Dodgers, and I'm like already looking up how I can get a flight and what the secondhand watch market is looking like when I get back over there. So very excited and had a great time, and I'm sure you did it as well. All right, we're doing this.

It is July 18th. This is coming out on July 19th. I leave for training camp in two days. Training camp starts in four days. And we're going to do a show that we've done every single year on this podcast because I just think it's a great table setter for training camp getting started. We're going to run through our biggest questions that we have on the eve of training camp. Each of us came with, I don't know.

I always say like four or five. I always come with like eight. But I ask you to come with, I think, four of them. So we're going to run through ours. You are the guest here. I'm going to let you kick this off. What is the question you started with that you are most looking forward to as training camps kick off?

the one I started with, because I tried to think about these in terms of, even if there were questions about individual teams, ones that could have a larger ripple effect. And the one I kind of started with was, how does the Ravens defense follow this up? Like what we saw last year considering the brain drain, especially on the staff on that side of the ball, where Mike McDonald's obviously in Seattle now, Anthony Weaver's down in Miami, DeNard Wilson's in Tennessee, Zach Orr stepping up to replace that with a group that's certainly, lost talent on the field, right? With Gino Stone and Patrick Queen and a number of other players, I'm just fascinated because that defensive performance last year was one that had ripple effects

throughout football. It was from the neck up, especially a sort of Shanahan offensive-like effect on the way that people are starting to look at and think about defensive football. And so I'm fascinated by how that team, especially on that side of the ball, is going to be able to follow it up because it's not like there aren't changes and things to talk about on offense, but I think the defense was such a big story and now is beginning to branch out that tree throughout the NFL as well. It's a great one to bring up. And what Baltimore looks like, I think you're going to extend that to the personnel. I'm curious, like, does Nate Wiggins start?

And if Nate Wiggins starts, does that mean Marlon Humphrey is full-time in the slot? And does that mean Kyle Hamilton's a full-time safety now? Like, there are just so many layers to what that defense might look like. And I think the proliferation of that system is a great thing to bring up. You know, the fact that now it's something that everybody's seeking. out. It's not an accident that Brian Callahan, who was with the Bengals for the last several years, wanted a defensive coordinator who was fluent in that system that he hated playing against. And one of my favorite things is the NFC West with Shanahan and McVeigh has been

this little incubator of offensive ideas in the NFL for the last five, six years. Now, with McDonald going over there, we get the Ravens Rams game twice a year now. In terms of like football nerd bullshit, we get it twice a year forever, as long as long as we get it. as those two guys are there. So so many different points of how the Ravens defensive system is going to affect the NFL this year. I think that's a great one to bring up. No, it's, it's exciting. You're right from the football nerd standpoint. The question's going to become, I think much like we've seen in a lot of these like Shanahan offenses, everyone's got their sort of like interesting, whether it's a jackaball trade piece or a tight end that mixes it up. I'm excited to see like who these

defenses employ in the Kyle Hamilton role. Are you know, how can you do this without a roe Juan Smith at the center of your defense that unlocked so many other players for them. So it's going to be a ton of fun to watch. But yeah, that was where my brain went first. It's a great point. And I think that we've seen this with the Shanahan offense where everyone has their flavor of it. You know, even McDaniel's offense looks different than Kyle's offense. McVe's offense looks different than other disciples he's had that have filtered around

the league. So even McDonald's, he's not going to do the same things with Seattle that he did with Baltimore. Even if you think that Weather Spoon can be that guy where he can be used in a bunch of different ways, it's going to express differently. So how all of these guys express these ideas through their talent is 100% going to be something worth watching. My first one here, I want to just know what sort of indications do we get early on about

when we'll see the rookie quarterbacks? Because I think with Chicago and Washington, it's pretty much given those guys that are going to play. I think Washington needs Jane Daniels to play early. The Bears named Caleb Williams, the starter on day one of the offseason program, which I kind of like that. I mean, it's much better than the Trevor Lawrence experience we went through a couple of years ago, where he split reps in training camp with Gardner Minshu.

You don't have to take it to that extreme. But I enjoyed the fact that there was no ambiguity about the fact that this was going to be the guy from day one. There are other situations that are a little bit muddier than that. You know, New England has come out and said Jacoby Percette is the starter for right now. He's getting the majority of the reps with the first team. Does that continue? Like, if Drake May looks ridiculous in camp, and Drake May comes out and makes five crazy throws in his first preseason game.

How long can they realistically keep him on the bench? I think probably the one that I'd bet on for the guy who's going to be on the sidelines the longest is J.J. McCarthy in Minnesota. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Sam Donald for a big chunk of this season for two reasons. One, they paid him $10 million in free agency. Two, I think the Vikings believe there is some credence to that model. where you sit your rookie quarterback for a little while. So I think with those two factors in mind,

when do we see him? And I'll admit this, even when I was making this list, I always forget about Bo Nix. Bo Nix is also a first round starting quarterback that's a rookie. And we'll see when we see Bo Nix. So just the murmurs, the things that leak out,

the initial impressions of these guys, that's going to be something I'm really excited to pay attention to as camp gets rolling. No, I'm with you on that. It's fascinating because you're right. All of these situations are just a little bit different. Knicks was one of the ones as we were getting ready for this.

I kind of had to remind myself, it's like, all right, Sean Payton is still back in the NFL coaching, and now he has hitched his wagon and his happiness to the sixth quarterback off the board in this last draft in a way. I find myself constantly going, what is, Sean Payton, you came back for this? Like, all of these problems that you've now found yourself with is just a fascinating sidebar. But you're right with these rookie quarterbacks. I do think, and I heard Bill Barnwell talking about this on NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal,

The Vikings early season schedule also has to do a little bit with that, I think. Looking at it now, you know, you start off with the Giants, which is fine, but then San Francisco, Houston, Green Bay, the Jets, if they're online. Like, you could not only be facing some tough outs, but also some really tough defensive fronts early in that year. So not exposing Sam Donald to that if you can, or excuse me, not exposing J.J. McCarthy to that early, if you can avoid it, probably good business. I totally agree.

The Broncos thing is so funny because when Sean Payton got there, I think, Everyone was pretty excited, right? This is a Super Bowl winning coach, somebody that had orchestrated top 10 offenses essentially every single year he was in New Orleans. And I'll admit this. I think that I was turned off by the way last year went in maybe two pronounced away. I think that maybe I've overreacted to how gross and uninteresting that team and that offense was last year.

And I am not putting enough stock in Sean Payton's entire tenure as a play caller as I look forward to what this year's Broncos can be, and I look forward to what the Broncos can be overall as he really kind of gets to reshape that team, and it's in his image. Because right now, like, I don't know, I'm not that excited about watching the Broncos. I'll admit that. And there's a chance I have to eat Crow about that halfway into the season when he's doing some interesting shit with Bo Nix. The Broncos really are like a case study in context, because I feel like so many of us, it took so long for them to shake the stink off of giving up like 70 points early in the season last year for us to like recalibrate in the Broncos defense and all that stuff.

So I'm with you. Boring all of a sudden made us downgrade. What was objectively like coming off the worst year of Russell Wilson's career, getting it back to base camp where it was at least somewhat of a respectable performance, deserves a lot more respect than it probably is getting. I think that's the question is what sort of multiplier is Sean Payton really and did the state of Russell Wilson's career and just kind of that weird arranged marriage give us a skewed understanding of what he is at this stage of his career. I think the answer might be yes.

And again, we're all just kind of clouded by how uninteresting that team was last year. And not just the stink of that 70 points, but the stink of the Russell Wilson trade. Like, it was impossible to watch that team last year and not just have the dead money figure in your head every single time you watch that team play football. But now we're on the other side of that, to an extent. They're still paying out the money, but we have a new quarterback in there. So a lot of things to potentially look forward to for Denver this year. What's your next one? My next one, actually, I'll piggyback off that because it was on my list,

but it was looking at the second year quarterbacks because outside of C.J. Stroud, who burst onto the scene and obviously is the darling of so many of us, especially in media because you couple the stellar play, the whole vibe switch with the franchise, him and Domingo Ryan's Rebel to pull, with an offseason media tour that really highlighted all the things that we love about him. I know your buddy Nate Tice wrote about what C.J. Stroud is as a passer, sort of a throwback guy, a lot more cerebral, what he does pre-snap, all these things that aren't just predicated on athleticism, beeling one of the bailouts there. But you look around right now at, all right, Tennessee and Will Levis, they have stocked the pond with weapons. We don't know if they're all perfect. We don't know if they fit together.

But the same idea, I think, has existed for him. And certainly Bryce Young, who was top of mind for me in thinking about this, this reclamation project where the Carolina Panthers went out and spent more money than God on an offensive line. They traded to get Xavier Ligget in the draft for him. They brought Deontay Johnson over here. Dave Canales is this reclamation project artist at quarterback that he's being billed at right now. And so a lot of these franchises doing what we ask teams to do, which is sell out to try and put enough around your young quarterback to figure out quickly if they're the guy or not. And I think a lot of these teams have at least tried to put themselves in that position, whether or not they can execute it perfectly.

I almost put the Bryce Young and the Panthers on here because I think there's so many different layers to it. Dave Canales has done a great job over the last couple years of Reclamation Project is right. You know, just kind of getting the best out of those guys. And I think correcting a lot of flaws. That was the most impressive part for me about watching him with Gino Smith and Baker-Mayfield is that some of those fatal flaws in both of those guys's game, notably just the sack taking and just how much of a problem that was. and the fact that they managed to kind of get over the hump with both of those guys there, what does he view as that fatal flaw with Bryce Young?

What is the number one thing they have to drill down on? And I don't know the answer. You know, we've had some hypotheses about what it might look like and why. Do they spread it out a little bit more? Is there more empty where he can play point guard? Like, what are the solves for Bryce Young in year two and how they get the most out of him? I think is absolutely one of the biggest questions in the league. And for the Panthers, I think there are a lot of layers.

to this. Right now, the way we saw guards get paid in free agency, I think that we're undergoing sort of a mini experiment about the value of interior players in the NFL. And I think we're going to see if those investments are worth it. What the Rams have done, what the Panthers have done, several other teams in the way they've played the interior of their lines. And you can make an argument that interior protection is more important than on the edges these days.

And I think the Panthers are going to be a test case for that. What do the Panthers' weapons look like? is the Xavier Leggette Johnson combo enough to unlock what Bryce Young is. So I think there are a dozen questions about the Panthers, and you could probably ask just as many about the rest of these second year guys. Yeah. And I think too, with recognizing it relative to your specific situation, too, in terms of that value in the interior,

like you got small, slight quarterback. Like we talked about it all in the lead up to the draft, but for him especially protection in that area. Now, they spent all that money on guard, Ikea Kuanu, who's their homegrown left tackle top pick. from a couple of years ago gave up more sacks than anybody in the NFL last year on his own. So like there are also things in there that you've got to figure out. I do think, you know, sack taking you mentioned how often he got hit last year.

It's good that you have a guy who's used to figuring out the antidote for that because you just got to stop getting it from getting hit so much so you can be upright long enough to develop anything resembling a good habit for a group that should be a little bit better at getting open than the Adam Thiel and Leg Crew last year. If you had a pick between Levis and Bryce Young, because I think everyone, has a reasonable amount of confidence in the Colts infrastructure and what that's going to meet for Anthony Richardson. If you had to bet on Will Levis or Bryce Young coming out on the other side of this season

with the majority of people feeling optimistic about where that arrow was pointed, which one would you pick? Oh, God. I think just because I'll say twofold. I'll say the Titans and Levis, one because he's just built like a tractor trailer, but also you saw a few flickers of it last year, even if I don't think long term, Will Levis. This is necessarily going to be like a long-term answer for the Titans. But also, I can't underscore what it means to get Bill Callahan over as a part of your organization,

to have that group molding the line in front of him, helping design the run game for that outfit now. And what we've seen him do at multiple stops along the way, you've started to build the house in the right way with the person holding the tools. And I think that's going to help him a lot up front to stay clean enough, long enough. Again, Dave Canales has a well-worn reputation like you mentioned of helping put these guys some good scenarios, but I just think the Titans might be closer to that and defensively as well. That's the other part with Carolina is so many quality defensive pieces walked out the door for them last year that I don't know if they're going to get as much help as last year's group did from that side of the football. I'm fascinated by what the Titans' offense is going to

look like, period. Because even though Brian Calhane comes from Cincinnati, I think we've got a lot of evidence that shows us it's going to look more like the Jake Browning version of the Bengals offense from last year than the Joe Burrow offense from last year. The fact that that's even an option, I think, speaks to the job that Cincinnati staff did with Jake Browning, the fact that they could change, I can't believe I'm about to do this, change their stripes midstream in the way that they did, I think was very impressive. But that, I think, really shows the flexibility and kind of how deep the bag is for somebody like Brian Calhanna. We'll see if that can extend to when he is the play caller and he's kind of the architect of this

for the first time in his entire NFL career. So that week one, kick. off and what the Titans are going to look like and what the Panthers are going to look like, two of the things that I'm going to be watching very, very closely. All right, it is time now for a segment delivered to you by Pizza Hut called The Taste of Chicago. Chicago Tavern-style pizza is the true pizza of Chicago, not that deep-dish stuff. That's for tourists. So, what does the Chicago Bears offense look like under Shane Waldron and how does Caleb Williams look in it?

This is not only one of the biggest questions I think about the NFL, but what? one of the biggest questions for my happiness and mental health over the next year to five years. So, I mean, there's so many different layers to this. If you think about what the Seattle offense looked like under Waldron over the last couple years, it didn't look the way that you might have thought based on his history with the Rams. You know, they had played these super wide formations. You know, the running game was structurally was very different than what the Rams were doing over the last couple years.

The way that they used DK Meckaff, where he's kind of on one side of the field. fields, put out to the left out wide. I don't know how many of those ideas you can necessarily or should necessarily graft onto what the Bears offense is and how to use that personnel. And if you look at even the staff, like Chris Morgan comes back as their run game coordinator and offensive line coach. So what does the run game look like? And is there a better marriage between the way Walter wants to throw the ball and the way they want to run the ball? Thomas Brown is coming over as the passing game coordinator. So do we see more RAM centric stuff in the way that LA looked over those last couple years.

I truly don't know what it's going to look like and what it should look like. And I think that leaves a lot of questions about how comfortable Caleb Williams is going to be and what sort of offense he's going to be piloting. So I'm very, very curious about just this structure of this thing as we get going. Yeah, all the noise of the Caleb Williams conversation about business practices off the field and all that stuff, finally giving way to what the actual ball is going to look like is going to be a welcome respite. But you're right. Like personnel-wise, it's going to be interesting to see what goes on there.

You know, the tight end room, they paid Cole come at all that money. Gerald Everett's over there now to go along with the wide receiver room that would have been the envy of anyone involved with the Justin Fields era of this offense. That's another question. How much 11 personnel do we even see? Because when Waldron was in Seattle, they were using multiple tight ends all the time. Is that because they had protection issues? Is that the way he wants to live? I just have so many questions about who he wants to be and why he wants to be that.

And we won't know until they actually put the pads on, start lining up and figuring it out. The 12th personnel one was the most interesting to me because I remember reading during the season about how much of that was a Pete Carroll directive at that point with with what they wanted and how much of that was Pete going back to his old ways saying, hey, I'd rather condense this down. I would rather lean on the things that I'm familiar with versus what Shane actually wanted to do with that. So again, it seems like he's got the bodies to sort of be whatever version of him we've seen. And so I guess it'll be twofold. You know, one, thinking about Caleb and the world that he comes with comes from playing with Winkin, which is, you know, if you forget the nature of the offense, which draft people found out and really dislike during the course of that season with college football people had seen for a while

about that like RPO dart-centric version of that offense. But just the general spacing, how much four and five wide they're doing there and what Caleb is used to and how they want to marry that with what Shane's DNA actually is at this point. And that's another huge question. Like how much RPO stuff do we see? Because that's not the world that Waldron comes from necessarily. So just every single layer in how they try to fold that stuff in definitely be worth watching. And then the other Bears thing, it's kind of adjacent to this is, I'm just curious about how the offensive line shakes out. Right. Like so they bring in, they sign Coleman Shelton, the free agency. They bring in Ryan Bates via trade. Is that, do both of those guys start?

Is Nate Davis the odd man out? Do we get? Ryan Bates at center or is Coleman Shelton just the depth piece. So a lot of questions and I think worthwhile questions about a bear's offense that a lot of people are excited about. If you want to try our spin on thin crust that's full of flavor, airy crispy and packed with new recipes, try Pizza Hutts Chicago Tavern style. All right, what's your next one here? My next one, I'll actually stay in division there and I'll look at the lions. Did the lions do enough in the secondary especially to go and stay within striking distance of San Francisco. Like are we going to again be able to talk about them as one of the true NFC contenders to go and win the Super Bowl?

I know, you know, our friends at FTN and Aaron Schatz and those guys all talk about how difficult it is in this league to hold offensive production year over year, the way the Lions have the last couple of years. You bring back Ben Johnson and all the same parts of the coaching staff and Aaron Glenn that give you the continuity to hold this thing over. but with last year how the injuries mounted up early with Mosey and C.J. Gardner Johnson to now the young pieces you continue to add, you know, half an Alabama secondary sitting in there in year one and two helping you out with Terry and Arnold and what Brian Branch was for you last year. Can that be enough because they're still not going to have opposite Aden Hutchinson enough enough pass rush juice, I think up front to offset that. So those working in tandem can the secondary offset that enough to help them keep pace with really green, in that division as this team that's nipping at their heels already. It's a great one. And I think with the Lions, I think there's a couple spots on the roster where, okay, is there patience and measured approach to each of these positions? Is that justified or is that going to come back to bite them?

And I think that you can say that for the other edge spot. And I think you could say that for the other outside receiver spot. Do they have the bodies in-house to take this thing where they want to take it? And it's interesting because, you know, DJ Reader's there now. So is he enough of a multiplier along that defensive front to get more from that group and get enough from that group to take them to that place? Is the secondary was it such a problem last year that if they get that right, it's all systems go, wheels up full steam ahead. I have no idea. But those seem to be the bets that they're making based on the moves that they made this offseason.

Yeah, I am fascinated. You mentioned DJ Reeder going over there. The combination of him and Aline McNeal, who when he got was back in the, that lineup late in the last season and the postseason. Total difference maker, like complete difference maker along the interior with Aidan Hutchinson on the end, who, again, I talked about FTN before. This stat was wild to me. Aidan Hutchinson led the NFL last year with 78 pressures, which was 55 more than the next closest lion's defender. Like, he is everything they've ever wanted. And he's standing around doing the Kevin Hart, help me.

I really enjoy as we look at just the way that teams around the league are trying to build physical football teams. And I think that it's something I've been talking with coaches about recently just because I do think that there is a gap between the teams that can really tap into that physicality and the teams that can't. And if we look at practice times and just the types of coaches that are in charge of these teams now, we've gotten to this place where we have these 35-year-old head coaches who are letting their guys play without pads half the time. it's like, okay, like this is still a physical game. So how do you maintain that balance? I love the lion's commitment to like every single person that we bring into this building for the most part is just an ass kicker. Like we're going to bring in DJ Reeder because he fits the type of team we want to be and he fits the type of vibe that we're going for. And we're not just going to bring in some other bendy pass rusher on the other side because you guys think that we should. Like there's

a certain bar you have to clear to play football here. And if you're, can't, then we're not interested in you. The bets that they've made in that area to this point have benefited them. So we'll see if that continues to happen. Yeah, it's, I mean, the spine-based football, that going all the way back to our original point talking about the Baltimore Ravens and this bet down the middle for them, that's really been up both sides of the ball for this Detroit Lions team. It's ass kickers all throughout these positions down the middle of it to see if they can still

win football by just beating the hell out of you. Let's stay in the NFC North because really one of the only, team-centric ones that I had, I'm curious about some position battles in Green Bay. This is the team that I think has real justified Super Bowl aspirations and at least playoff aspirations based on the way the last year went. But a couple of these spots for them are a little bit unsettled. They draft Jordan Morgan in the first round. Does he start? Where does he start? Is he the left tackle? Is he the right guard? Who are their best five offensive linemen? How quickly during camp do we finish that? Figure that out? What happens?

in the secondary, you know, Eric Stokes, it seems like every single year, we want to have optimism about somebody like Eric Stokes. And Matt LaFleur this spring, he was like, listen, he looks as good as he's ever looked, he's healthy, you know, it's kind of a knock on wood sort of situation. But if they can get Jaya Alexander back, if they can get Stokes back, they have Valentine's depth now, they go out and draft Javon Bullard and Edron Cooper in the second round. Do we see both of those guys in the lineup early on? how many of these defensive pieces are unlocked by Jeff Hathley coming in there.

So there are a lot of questions for Green Bay, despite being a team that I think a lot of people consider to be a contender. They're not scary questions, but there's enough that's unsettled about that team that I think I'm paying more attention to some of their personnel decisions than some of the other teams that are firmly in that contender status. I know. I think we've been so enamored thinking about the offense and, you know, the youngest group of skill players in the NFL and the Jordan Love Step 4 that happened last year.

Jeff Hathley coming over to me is going to be a fascinating subplot to all this because everything he represents defensively is not really what's in vogue in the NFL right now. But when you look at the pieces that they've gotten this group, especially up front, like adding Edron Cooper into this group where Jeff Hathley going all the way back to when he was at Ohio State as the coordinator, before he got to BC, we're like, obviously they're undermanned in terms of talent. in the modern version of college football where you've got to do all this stuff and the resource race has never been more valuable. They were always probably going to fall behind.

His defense is even still there. It was, I'm going to put bodies around the line of scrimmage and we're going to raise hell. They are a havoc team when I think of Jeff Hathley and what he wants to do. And he's got pieces that they've drafted over the last few years in that group that can create havoc when weaponized in that way. And so combine that with the single high stuff. And it's just going to be really interesting to see what that side of the ball that's been the complaint for so many Packers fans for the last couple seasons looks like under him. Hearing the players talk about how much they've enjoyed him being there, I think that says a lot

because of course you want to play like that. If you're a defensive player, of course you want to play like that. You're a defensive lineman and your job now is just rush the quarterback and stop the run on the way to the quarterback. That's exactly how you want to play. And I've said this a couple times over the last couple weeks, and this is a drum continue to beat up until we get to the season. If I'm going to pick a team that not to the same degree, because I don't think they're

going to be the best defense in the league, but can make like a diet version of the jump that the Browns did last year because they're undergoing such a stylistic shift from one mindset to the other and they have the requisite amount of talent to be really good, I think the Packers are a very good candidate for something like that to happen. Because if you have the bodies up front and you have the difference makers up front and the guys who can influence the game and you deploy them in the correct way, it can go a long, long way. And I do think that they have that sort of group with their front four. And this system feels like the right way to potentially unlock those guys. And if you're unlocking those guys at the start of it, I think there's a trickle-down

effect to a back seven that, in my opinion, has enough talent to justify what's going on in the front. Yep, this kind of approach defensively, like it's, for anyone that doesn't know, I played offensive line in college, and it gives me anxiety to think about because defenders that have only that one thing to consider are terrifying when you've got, especially like you said, the kind of athletes that are in their front four, like there are, you know, penetrators and pluggers basically when it comes to defensive line and right, depending on the system, depending on what you're asked to do. And the guys that are spending their time, trying to backdoor, trying to arm over, trying to get, upfield and tear ass off the football are the ones that give you the most anxiety because it's just like playing out on the perimeter speeds the number one thing you've got to think about first strength is terrifying in its own way but in part for me it's easier to work around you know blocking vince wilfork still probably not the easiest day in the office but it's at least a little bit more like all right i know what i'm in for than me potentially holding out of my ass and looking in the back field while some guys eating my friends alive you know between the running back and

quarterback. I just like the amount of different skill sets they have and the different flavors they have, right? Because Van Ness and Gary especially, like those guys are just pocket crushers. They've got a lot of size on the outside. T.J. Slayton is a player that I think really came along last year. I thought he had flashes in his first couple seasons. He's more of that plugger that you're talking about, but it's still nice to have that skill set in the mix. But then when you combine that with a Kenny Clark and a Carl Brooks and, you know, I think Wooden showed some stuff last year, like that's, when you're playing this style of defense, you need those waves of guys. You need two hockey lines full of players because you don't want them to be playing more than 60% of the snaps or so. And you

want the play style to be at the forefront. You want to be able to tell those guys, hey, I'm going to give you enough of a break where you're going to have to play a certain way every single time you're out there. And they can do that. There's no imagination necessary. You don't have to stretch yourself too thin to properly deploy these guys and the type of defense that they want to play. And that's why I'm excited to actually watch it in practice. Going to be awesome. All right. For my last one here, I hate that I'm pulling the rip court on this, but I cannot ignore the actual fascination. I understand first take watchers, look away. You've seen this ad nauseum over the summer. I get we talk about the Cowboys too much.

But what happens with Dak Prescott is one of those things that's going to have such massive ripple effects that I cannot ignore it. If they're going to let him walk into this season and just play it out on the final year, we're talking about next. Like, first off, this season, you know, for the Cowboys that have an awful skill group outside of CD Lamb there, questions about the run game, questions about if Mike Zimmer is going to be able to come in and help stop the run in a way they haven't been able to. All those things for a team that's done nothing but win 12 games and be in regular season contention for the last. last few years. But now you're talking about the potential of Dack Prescott to do like Kirk Cousins style contract math coming off this. If he actually gets to free agency, who would then be in the market of some of these teams? It's all wild to me. What do you think happens if you had to make a bet on it

right now? If I had to bet on it right now, I think if anyone's crazy enough to just let him play out this final year and see it's Jerry Jones. And they seem for whatever, like I look at this as they've got some of the same doubts that we all do about the rest of that roster. And I think part of them are wondering of why are we really going to keep throwing money after this problem to try and address this in a way that maybe we don't think is possible for this current roster and just hard to, I didn't think Jerry would do it originally because Jerry's getting old and I thought selfishly he wanted to try and get back to this mountain top before, you know, actual, forget football mortality, but real life mortality starts to creep into this. But it really seems like they have expressed

in the way that they have built this team and gone about it, doubts enough about this roster. I think he might actually let him walk in without that contract extension. And on the other side of it, if anybody's going to be willing to kind of not blink and see this out, it's, it's Dak and his people. Like, there are two quarterbacks that have played the game exactly the way that they should every single turn financially over the last seven years or so. And it is Kirk Cousins and Dak Prescott. They have, they've exercised every bit of leverage that they have.

they have really taken it to the end every single time in a way that few players and few quarterbacks are. But I think that we have enough history that shows us if you're a quarterback at a certain level and you want to exert that leverage, you can. It is worth doing. Dak, when he didn't take the contract before or when he was willing to take the tag a couple times, the question is always, well, what if you get hurt? What if you get hurt? He broke his leg and then still got the contract that he wanted. When you're a certain level of quarterback, it just doesn't matter. So I think on both sides of this, there might be the requisite ingredients for each of them

to take it the distance in a way that we don't typically see with quarterback organization dynamics. So I think that's a great one. And I'm fascinated by a lot of things going on with that team. And I think that you can extend it to a couple of these other quarterback contracts. Does Jordan Love just get paid? Does Jordan Love just get the Trevor Lawrence deal or something that's a slight markup on that after? I love Jordan Love. but eight good games in the back half of last season?

Like, is that enough? And I think what do the dolphins do with Tua is another one that I just, I cannot wait to see what their answer is. I had a head coach yesterday that I was talking to and he just said, would, do you think would, would you pay two if you were the dolphins? And I'll keep the answer private. But it's just, it's on the minds of people around the NFL even that aren't even involved in that discussion. I think because it is such an interesting football experiment based on his success and trying to divorce his success from what they've been able to do there schematically.

Yep. It's been this offseason a real exercise. And all right, what's the range quarterbacks have to be in for us to just say, sure, you set the market in some way, shape, or form next. And we know there's a bunch of clever math that teams can do, whether it's average per year, whether it's guaranteed money, how it's structured to make every agent and player feel good. good about themselves and they lay their head down at night.

But one way or another, you're getting like your $5 million pay dump over whatever the last quarterback got there. And how far does that? Is that the 12th, 13th, 14th best quarterback in the NFL? And that seems to be the range we're going to get to before we get to the final boss next year with what happens with Brock Purdy after all the discourse. It's funny. I guess I can pull this out now, pull this out of the quiver.

I think I'm more comfortable paying Brock Purdy than I am. in Tua. I really do think that Brock Purdy and some of the unique elements to his game, the off-schedule things, some of the pocket movement, the scrambling. I think there are more components to who Brock Purdy is that are aligned with elite quarterbacking in the NFL in 2024 than there are with Tua. I do firmly believe that. So the fact that, you know, we were having this question about Tua, I think that I'm maybe a little bit more open to it with Pertie when we do get there, even if I think there's plenty of downside and plenty of danger and paying somebody like that $55 million a year. I would agree. I think all of this also goes back to, and we've talked

about this more and more as a like football watching culture lately, but just the importance of environment on quarterback development in all these ways. And Brock Purdy has always been in this, now maybe the way he exactly came into it and all the circumstances surrounding Jimmy G and all those other things, but he's been in an environment in terms of the football atmosphere in San Francisco that's going to be conducive to you developing the best possible habits, having all the best possible things around you in terms of what to use. And for Tua, for Trevor Lawrence, for a bunch of these quarterbacks that came out, had to go through coaching changes, and had to do like a full mental rewiring.

In addition, for Tua, the catastrophic injury he suffered at the end of his college career. Like, I think you started to see more of the, all right, well, that's not just the Shanahan McVeigh. McDaniels stuff out of Tua last year in certain instances, the stuff that you talk about that's a little bit different with Purdy compared to one of his predecessors like Jimmy G. But I do think you can take some of that back to like Tua's had to do a lot of work just to get back to base camp based on the way he started before versus Brock Purdy, who wound up in a great situation, but has absolutely maximized it in a lot of ways that will make him deserving when it finally comes.

There's no doubt. I got a couple more here that we can run through pretty quickly. We've alluded to a couple of these situations, but what do the first year offenses actually look like? So we talked about the Titans and what Will Elvis is going to look like with Brian Calhahn, but what do Kellynne Moore's Eagles look like? You know, we've all seen that line about 95% of the offense being different. Like, what does it actually look like structurally? Is there going to be more motion? You know, is there going to be more passes to the running back?

Like, how do they use Seekwon and a Kellynne Moore offense? That is a huge question for me. I cannot wait to see what the Ryan Grubb Seahawks look like. Gino in that offense with that skill position talent. I just, I pray that the offensive line holds up well enough for us to get the most out of that. Because I think that that system with the way that Gino wants to play and the past catching talent that they have,

that is a chance to be fireworks if they get a certain baseline level of play up front. What do Arthur Smith Steelers look like? Right? Like, I don't, like, what do they even look like? because you have this offense that they want to attack the middle of the field. It's all under center play action. There are two quarterbacks who don't want to play that way. Last year, they ran more wide zone than any team in the league.

But you could make an argument that the Steelers' offense looked best when they were pulling Broderick Jones. So are those ideas a little bit too disparate to actually come out on the other side of like a cohesive vision that's well suited to the players? I have no idea. And they're like five more of them. What do Alex Van Pelt's Patriots look like? like. What do the Liam Cohen bucks look like as they go to that sort of offense? Clint Kubiak going to New Orleans. So this is the storyline every year. It feels like we have 10 new offensive play callers every season now. But there are a bunch of them this year that I find

particularly compelling based on the quarterbacks and the situations that we're looking at. Hearing you say it out loud too, it really like you could just sort of circle that around the NFC South, like this division that we laughed out of the gym last year where you've got all these new play callers coming in right now. And to your point, like wildly different styles. Is there four new play colors in NFC South? Yeah. It's so true.

And like the Zach Robinson Falcons. Like is it just all systems go for Kirk Cousins in that offense? Like do we get the most out of a Drake London and a Kyle Pitts? So I'm very excited. Bejohn Robinson too in an offense where all of the Rams DNA going back to Todd Gurley and then in a very different way last year with Kyron Williams now has certainly featured that position in a variety of ways. Like, are we finally going to get more than just cool sky cam highlights of Bejohn

Robinson making cuts? Yeah, that one's very exciting. I mean, they're just a bunch of them. Unfortunately, I'm not doing the southeast on my training camp travels because I was in Tennessee and in Nashville right after the draft. And then I went to visit with the Falcons in June. So it's just like, it's hard to justify the trip all the way back down there. And if I can avoid Miami in early August, I'm going to potentially do that.

So a lot of factors influencing that one. Wise decision. As someone that once had to spend a week practicing in Miami in early January and still was stunned at the way it made my body feel, that is smart business on your part, man. I think I've gone down there each of the last two years. And I can't even describe to you what it's like. You walk out of the car on July 29th and just your sunglasses, instantly fog up.

Like, I'm sweating the moment I exit the vehicle. And the humidity is 98%, so you never stop sweating. Like, there's just no way to handle it. There's no way to combat it. So congratulations to Marcel Louis Jacques and all those guys that cover the dolphins down there. But I'm going to pass on that one this year. All right, a couple more very quickly for me.

Who are Jim Harbaugh's chargers? Right? Like, fucking Jim Harbaugh is the hell. head coach of the Chargers. It's easy to forget this, despite how much attention we paid to it in the moment. What does the offense look like? What does the defense look like? The last two times we saw Greg Roman as an offensive coordinator in the NFL, his quarterbacks were Colin Kaepernick and Lamar Jackson. It's going to have to look different with Justin Herbert, I assume, but what does that mean? Right. Like, I mean, you assume that they're going to lean into

the run game, but obviously the way the run game is structured is going to be very different than what it was in Baltimore. You know, the weapons are such a question mark. How do they want to play? Everything about that situation, very curious about it's actually going to be one of the first places I go. I'm going to Arizona first, but then I'm going to be spending two days with the Rams and the Chargers next week. And the Chargers are one of the teams that I just cannot wait to see even what practice looks like, you know, what practice feels like. It would just so many different elements to that. Well, to your point about seeing, seeing if it's still possible to build your entire team's premise off, can I just beat your ass? Because that's what they're going to try and do.

Him and Greg Roman are hanging out in a freaking trailer park for God's sakes. You know, Jesse Minter coming over there with all that fun DNA from the Michigan buzzsaw defense from last year that's supposed to mimic what we had in Baltimore, like how they fit those parts. I mean, I could have come in with the same question I've had every year, which is can the Chargers offensive line stay healthy long enough for me to see how this looks. Like you've now got, what, three first round picks, three former first round picks on that offensive line that I all liked coming out of school. And with Sean Slater, we've seen proof of concept in the NFL.

But for Zion and now for Joe on the other side of this, if it could stay healthy enough long enough to where Justin Herbert has real protection and like you mentioned, structurally so much of a different design for the run game and then the play action game off it and all that stuff to then see, hey, Ladman Kaki, can he do it in the NFL? too. Like we all just sat there and I for a while left. Like there's no way a white dude named Ladd with two D's is going to sauce dudes in the SEC. And he did routinely. So who knows? This is going to be an experiment about how much coaching matters. The fact that this team purge talent that Keenan Allen is gone, you know, Ladd McConkey is probably their number one receiver.

You know, on defense, they bring back the edge guys, but there are so many questions about interior defensive line. Linebacker, what's going on at corner? And I think that there's a pretty big contingent of people who believe that they're going to be competitive this year despite all of that. And that is solely a bet on Jim Harbaugh. Like that's all that is. And I don't necessarily think that's misguided. No, not even in the slightest. So I guess while we're like belching out other things that we had written down here too, the Bengals are going to be able to tackle this year.

Like I was amazed at how quickly for all of the Luan Arumo propaganda that we as a football community all. reach understandably because that was just the talking point we got at some point. Like last year, the secondary that they revamp really had struggles tackling defensively up front. They had some things to change around. You mentioned, you know, the moving of DJ reader. Now, Sheldon Rankins, who was freaking awesome last year for the Texans up front. I mean, just raising holy hell for them, now moves over on that spot to go along with the beef they've amassed on the offensive line of scrimmage. Like, that's going to go a long way and deciding like, hey, are we going to get back in addition to Healthy Joe Burrow of this Bengals team going back and sliding their place

right alongside Buffalo and Baltimore and Kansas City. I was very curious about that defense. When we did our lingering crushing series, we did one on every division. Just like, what the hell happened to X last year when you don't really have time to study it? The Bengals defense was one of the things that I really wanted to look at. And what they got out of the middle of the spine of the second and third level, that what they got out of their safeties last year and then the regression from the linebackers

bringing back Von Bell and bringing in Geno Stone, I think that that was a declaration that this is never going to happen again. They really were hoping that Nick Scott could be that guy for them as just a plug-in-play starter last year and it never happened. And the same is true for Dax Hill.

It's not an accident that Dax Hill is getting moved positionally this year because it did not work out for him at safety. So getting Von Bell back and I heard a couple people say like, you know, maybe Von Bell's like a debt piece for them. He's only making like a million bucks. He's only making a million bucks because the Panthers are paying his salary. Right. I think that he's going to be like a real player for them this year.

Maybe I'm wrong about that. But I can't imagine that he's not going to step in and be like a stabilizing force for them because I think that's the whole point of bringing him back. I want, last thing about the charges I want to ask you about, how like, can you see this clearly with Joe Alt? Like, are you like a Joe Alt guy? Like, how do you feel about him? I feel pretty strongly about Joe, mostly because, like, with offensive linemen coming out of college,

the way that college is structured and the way the NFL is structured in terms of time on the field, I put a premium on guys that are technically proficient enough coming out. But he also matches that with gifts, like the guy's, what, barely over 21 at this point? He's incredibly long. He's a guy that was, you know, morphing from tight end to offensive linemen going into college and all that stuff that we sell for like upside guys when you were like back in the day, like Lane John. morphing from all those things into one of the best athletes playing the position and then getting to a place in Philadelphia and certainly Oklahoma before that that molds it, but he's technically

proficient enough like making the move, you know, making the move or whatever the things people talked about. I thought he always had that in his bag, but no, I was going to be as hard on joke coming out as anybody because I always try and put the biases aside towards Notre Dame when analyzing prospects. And, you know, when I look at Notre Dame O'Lyman, I see Zach Martin. Like, that's the standard in my brain because I played with Zach. It's just not fair to anybody, but Joe, in addition to all the technical things, is just so big. Like, he, every once in a while, you're reminded, like, at some point, it just takes the defensive lineman way too long to get around the perimeter because we had the long arms conversation with dudes all the time. There are plenty of long armed players where you don't see it show up on tape.

With Joe Alt, every pass pro rep is like watching someone little brother a guy where you see the full extent of that wingspan, making life a living hell for. defenders. And so all that stuff combined, he's scheme versatile. I have very few concerns about Joe making that move up. He'll, you know, he'll continue to add size the way a guy like Mike McGlinchie did coming out and be able to anchor better in certain spots as he cleans up some hand stuff, but it's really nitpicky. Excited to watch him play. I've got a couple more small ones. Like, who's going to be the Raiders quarterback? Where does a guy like Justin Simmons lands, some of the left tackles? But we could do this all day. So I don't think we have to belabor any of those. Mike Gollick Jr., sincerely appreciate you coming to spend the time with us today.

Tell people where they can hear, listen to, watch the stuff that you're doing right now. Yes, Gojo and Gollick, me and my dad, Monday through Friday, 8 to 10 a.m. Eastern on the Draft Kings Network, our YouTube channel, Samsung TV Plus, Roku. I think we're on sling now, which is cool, big sling guy. I've always been. Don't ask anyone to tell you otherwise. They're lying. You can get us there wherever you get your podcast as well. It's available. but yeah, we're rocking a roll, man, excited like everybody else to get out of July and actually get into training camps reporting here. It's going to be fun. We are here.

It's very exciting. You guys that do those two hours of live stuff every single day, you guys are built different, man. I truly don't know how you're able to do it. I heard Greg Rosenthal now, you know, they're doing NFL daily daily. And he said, he goes, he's like, I didn't realize that daily is both a promise and a threat. It's like, man, I feel that in my bones. I think we did five shows a week, maybe the second year of this show. And it was one of those things where we were going to do four.

And I was like, well, if we're going to do four, we might as well do five. And it was one of the dumbest things I've ever done in my entire career. So I've learned my lessons. I've gained some wisdom with age. But you guys are, you know, again, you're just, you're better men than me. Mike, thank you very much for the time, my friend. We will chat with you very soon. Thanks for having me, brother.

Appreciate it. All right, guys. That's all we got. Thank you so much to Mike for him. his time. Like we said, training camp is here. We'll be back on Tuesday. Training camp officially opens for most of these teams on Wednesday. For the Texans and the Bears, it's already started because the Hall of Fame game, they're getting started a few days early. But be on the lookout for that show on Tuesday. We've got a very special show coming your guys's way on

Tuesday. I feel like it's probably worth starting to tease now. So very, very special podcast coming your guys's way on Tuesday that I'm really looking forward to you guys here in that conversation. and I think is a very fun way to get the 2024 season kicked off. So be on the lookout for that. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.