The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The effects of Fernando Mendoza's rise and Notre Dame's fall on the 2026 NFL Draft

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

College Football Playoff controversy? What College Football Playoff controversy? You won't find any of that here on this episode of Building the Beast. What you will find, though, is Dane Brugler and Dave Helman digging into how the conference championship games and College Football Playoff field helped shape the state of the 2026 NFL Draft conversation as we approach the end of the year.Connect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Dave HelmanCo-Host: Dane BruglerExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Dave on X: @davehelman_Follow Dane on X: @dpbruglerTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to an all new episode of Building the Beast. I am your host, Dave Hellman, and we've got a little bit of a grab bag for you all this week. Dane Bruegler and myself took a look at as many different topics as possible coming out of conference championship week. Not to worry, we do have a college football playoff preview coming next week. Obviously, all the big matchups in front of us. You got Alabama, Oklahoma, Oregon, James Madison, Tulane, Old Miss, Texas, and Miami. We're going to save that for next week since we've got some time to let it marinate. We're not ignoring it.

Don't worry. But in the meantime, there's a lot to dig into coming out of conference championship weekend. Indiana's big win over Ohio State on Saturday night for Fernando Mendoza, ton of talent on both sides of the ball dug into that. Talked about Georgia's win over Alabama, what it means for Ty Simpson, as well as the Texas Tech BYU game. Dug into a bunch of other stuff as well. Notre Dame's bowl season opt out.

what that means for their draftable players, talked about the Heisman race, and even dug into the FCS playoffs a little bit. Something for everybody in this episode. Really great conversation. Let's do it. Well, Dane, it's that time of year in college football. The final playoff bracket has been revealed.

The conference championships have been decided. And everybody's angry. And there is no better time to do a draft podcast because we can just sit here and talk about football, players and I don't have to have an opinion about what the committee decided or who got snubbed or who benefited unfairly. And I'm really relieved about that, man. I'm very happy to just take a pass on all of that and say, hey, look at all these cool

football players. We're going to be able to draft in a few months. Yeah. And before we do look forward, because there's plenty of stuff we need to talk about with the playoff and we'll do that eventually. But we got to talk about some of these conference championship games because, man, they weren't all great

and we didn't have many to choose from but specifically that Ohio State Indiana matchup I wanted a fifth quarter I mean I wanted I mean let them

play again it was by far the best defensive tape on both sides Ohio State and Indiana that I have watched all season and both sides

played at an all time level I just I can't wait to get into this one hand to chest. I will own this. And it's a good lesson. I'd like to think I knew this, but it's never bad to get a reminder. But it's a good lesson that you can't write things off for narrative purposes. And I said heading into this game, maybe the stakes are a little bit lower because Ohio State and Indiana are assured by weeks in the playoff. And that's exactly what happened. Right. Like all at the end of the

day, all that happened is Indiana and Ohio State flip flopped in the one and two spots. And I guess from that perspective, the drama was lessened. But to hell with that, because if you watch this game and understanding that this was Indiana's first chance to win the Big Ten and forever, and even on Ohio State side, the defending national champions, a team that has accomplished plenty in the college football landscape, you would have no idea watching this game that both of these teams were assured a byweek in the playoff because the physicality, the effort, the, the strength. in this matchup. It was just a fantastic game of football. And by like the late third quarter,

I was like, yeah, forget all that. Forget all that lesson stake stuff. You can tell how much these teams want to win this game. No doubt. And I think we really saw it on defense where, I mean,

the final score is 13 to 10. So obviously it was a defensive battle. But the key reason that I think Indiana won this game, they had a better quarterback, plain and simple, at least on Saturday night, between Fernando Mendoza, Julian Sayan. And really, I mean, we're talking about a three-year starter

compared to our first-year starter. And that was the main difference, was Mendoza made more plays. And it's funny how the game started because we had been hoping to see this matchup really all season. Ohio City, Indiana, the showdown in the Big Ten championship game, a chance to scout Mendoza against an NFL-level defense.

The first player of the game, Mendoza gets absolutely leveled by Caden Curry. My first thought was, well, that was a letdown. You know, we're going to get robbed from seeing him in this big moment. But he missed just one play, shook it off. And then, you know, he didn't have like the best statistical game of his career by any means. And that's, you know, Ohio State's defense is really freaking good. But he made just key throws that were really the difference.

And there were, I think, four of them that stood out. There was the fourth and two in the second quarter that led to a field goal that deep post to Becker that got him down where they later scored the touchdown. The slot post, which was the touchdown to Elijah Sarat, and then that go ball on third down late in the fourth quarter to essentially seal the game. So if even one of those

is incomplete, good chance. The outcome of this game is different. And so that's from a macro level. I think Mendoza was the difference in this game. He's just a better quarterback. He made more plays against a legit defense than what Sayan was able to do. And Sayan had his nice moments as well. He just didn't have as many big throws

as Mendoza was able to make. And that's a testament to a quarterback. I mean, look, we've been saying all year, Mendoza is a first year, or a first round player. We've been, you know, he was in my way too early mock draft in April, started the year, top 20 in overall in my rankings.

And he just continues to impress and impress all year. And this game, the way he performed, I thought it was a needle mover. It makes you like him even more and convinces you even further that, yeah, this is not only an NFL starter, but someone that's going to be able to come in from day one and make a difference for your NFL team. So, but I do want to talk about these defenses as well because it's, I mean, where do you want to start? Ohio State's defense or Indiana's defense? Let's let's start.

Let's let's keep it on Mendoza for just a tick longer because. I do think it's worth pointing out. The data points are not done. Dante Moore is going to be part of this playoff. Ty Simpson is going to have a chance to try to write the ship. We can talk in more detail about Ty Simpson in a minute, but he's going to be part of this playoff. So there's plenty of opportunity for more information over the next month or so.

But with this game in a showcase moment against a defense that my God is going to have so many guys drafted, it's starting to feel like Mendoza is crystallizing as the QB1, like the guy that's going to be the prohibitive favorite to be the first quarterback off the board. And we can talk about the throws. I think you highlighted the pertinent ones very well. But to go back to the beginning of that game, it's not just that he took a big hit from Caden Curry on the first snap, but the way that he was acting on the turf, my heart fell into my stomach.

Like I was imagining the scenarios where like, oh, like what does this mean for his future? How long is he going to be out? How does this affect the draft? Like, I was already daydreaming about the ramifications of this injury because he looked like he was in that much pain. And I think more than anything, because I thought they were great throws.

Don't get me wrong. I thought the stuff we saw from Mendoza against a higher level of competition, it looked like what we've seen from, him all year long. What I think I learned about him that maybe I didn't know or didn't know in as great a detail is what a tough son of a gun, man, to miss one play and come back in. And not just that one hit, but he was under fire all night long.

I mean, Caden Curry, if Ohio State wins this game, maybe we're talking about Caden Curry as the guy who popped off the page more than anybody else because he was that much of a game wrecker coming off of mainly off of right tackle. I mean, the guy had six pressures, four quarterback hits, and two sacks. And to overcome that sort of pressure coming at you from a very high caliber defense, I came away so impressed with his physical and mental toughness. No doubt. And Curry, he's an Indiana kid.

I mean, he grew up outside of Indianapolis. He came very close to going to Indiana before, you know, this thing, everything turned. when Kurt Signetti showed up, but couldn't turn down Ohio State and he doesn't have any regrets, obviously, but you know he wanted to win that game with the way he played. But that's what you love about Kate and Curry as a prospect, is the motor just doesn't shut off ever.

And so we really saw that in this one. But yeah, the toughness that he shows both mental and physical. Like that's something that really stands out with him. And, you know, I think they can go back to several, different tapes this year where Iowa, what they did in the fourth quarter in that one, the mental toughness it takes for that final drive against Penn State, after he threw the pick six on the Oregon tape, the very next drive, he marches that team down the field. It was like a 12th play touchdown drive.

So, you know, even when he does make a mistake or he gets rocked, like he, it just doesn't face him as much. And, you know, that's a pretty big difference when you watch him. compared to watching, I'm not trying to take a shot at Ty Simpson, but that's something that Ty Simpson hasn't been able to overcome necessarily, where the mistakes seem to snowball with that Alabama offense instead of the quarterback being able to write the ship. Now, we'll get in Alabama a little bit later.

It's more than just the quarterback, what's the issue with that offense. But I think it really does, to your point, speak to Mendoza's toughness and how that's, that mentality, you need that in the NFL if you're going to play quarterback because mistakes are part of it. You have to be able to come back. And yeah, it's just another reason why Mendoza is going to be, I think he's the frontrunner to be the first quarterback drafted.

And it'll be interesting with the playoffs because Oregon, they basically have a buy. No offense, James Madison. But Oregon versus Texas Tech defense in that second round, that'll be really fun to see more go up against that caliber of defense. And then

Indiana, either going up against, I think it's what, either Alabama's defense or Oklahoma's defense, that'll be awesome. So to your point, we still have more data points before we make any final decisions on these quarterbacks. But Mendoza made a huge statement with how he played. And I get it. They scored 13 points. But the quarterback was the difference in why Indiana won this game. And, you know, the Ohio State defense shut down the run game. Indiana really wants balance. That's a key part of what they want to be on offense. Ohio State shut down the run game. The quarterback just made more 3rd.

Rose. So let's talk about the Ohio State defense that Fernando Mendoza was ultimately able to get the best of because with apologies to Indiana, we're not here to tell the story of the 2025 college football season. I mean, I'm so impressed and excited about where Indiana football is, but I'm looking for NFL prospects. And buddy, this Ohio state defense is so silly. And actually, if you don't mind, I would like to start. I'll issue a lot of, another apology because, I mean, we talked about this guy before the season even started. He's, we knew he was a good player. He's been a good player all season. And that would be Sonny Stiles at Ohio State. But I feel the need to issue an apology to Mr. Stiles because he happens to play next to the guy who has become one of the sensations of this season, Rvel Reese, a guy that has jumped into the conversation to potentially be the first player taken or the person on quarterback taken. One of the biggest stories of the college football season. And I feel like you have a tendency to get enamored with the shiny new thing.

Like, oh, yeah, like everybody else is good, but have you seen Reese for Ohio State? And he rushes the passer and that's very intriguing and makes you a more valuable player. And it's just kind of easy to put Sonny Stiles in the background and be like, yeah, he's good, but he's an offball linebacker. It is what it is. and man against Indiana, I just, you talk about, I mean, I mentioned Caden Curry, but you talk about guys jumping off the, off the field, just leaping out at you. Sunny Stiles played like a demon in this game.

It was incredible to watch. He was all over the place. And by the end of the night, it was like, I don't care what Rvel Ries is doing. Where's Stiles? And I just, I think he deserves a shout for the level he was playing at in a game this big. I mean, Stiles, he looks like a defensive end, runs like a safety. And he's so good at using those long arms where he can quickly get off climbing blocks, make stops in the run game.

The key and diagnose skills are night and day better than last year. I mean, we need to remember, he didn't move to linebacker until spring practices of last year. So last year as a junior, that was his first year playing linebacker. And so there, you know, obviously will be some inconsistencies as he adjust to the new position. This year, the improvements he has made has been expected, but also still really impressive. And so, you know, you watch him play and the physicality, a guy that size to be able to run that fast, six, four and a half, he's a legit, six four and a half, 240 pounds. That's not inflated numbers.

He is that bit. And sometimes he'll, you know, he'll tackle a little bit tall. And that's just the nature of being that size. But running backs go backwards at contact. And so the mental part catching up to the physical part is a huge. That's really the main takeaway from this season and especially late in the season from Sunny Siles. And it helps that it's not only what you see on tape, but he just turned 21 years old. So he reclassified.

So he should be a junior right now. He reclassified just turned 21 years old. He was the Blocko recipient. Scout told me he got the most votes by far. they cast a vote among the team about who gets to wear the block O, sunny styles, and a landslide. So, you know, all these things add up. And it's like, yeah, he plays offball linebacker,

but this guy's going to be a top 20 pick. I mean, it's just his impact on the game is, it felt in so many different ways. And I think that was very, very much the case in this game against Indiana. They could not block him. He came with violence and physical. every time he got to the ball carrier. He had at least a snap or two of nice coverage too.

It looked like he was like the pole runner down the middle of the field where he was able to make it difficult for Fernando Mendoza in that intermediate range. I just throughout the game. I mean, 12 tackles doesn't, it doesn't tell the story of his impact. And PFF charts stops as like a tackle that leads to an unsuccessful gain. And he had seven of those. So phenomenal performance. but he was he was not alone though as as you can attest i mean arville ral reese was awesome um he didn't light up the stat sheet but if you watch the tape he did exactly what he was asked to do he was

setting the edge he was spying um i received more than a few tweets saturday night saying oh where is he why don't have a bigger game you he was doing exactly he was being coached to do and then that that closing burst in the fourth quarter on mendoza oh my gosh it was ridiculous so Arval Reese had a fine game. Downs was awesome too. We mentioned Caden Curry. He played out of his mind. But, and I'll do respect all these guys we've mentioned.

The best player in Ohio State's defense, in my opinion, from this game, is Caden McDonald in the middle, nose tackle. He destroyed Pat Coogan, the Indiana Center. The run game really struggled to get going because of what the nose tackle was doing. And to me, this just, it's cemented what, What we thought coming into this game was he was one of the biggest risers this year. In my mock draft, he was in the top 20. His violence that he plays with at the point of attack creates immediate knockback.

He resets the line of scrimmage. And then he also showed some more pass rush in this game than we saw before. So I just think Cade McDonald, a first year starter still figuring things out, as good as he's been getting better throughout the year, he still has room where he's going to improve. So Caden McDonald, I mean, all these guys, Reese, Downs, Stiles, McDonald, those four guys,

I'll be shocked if any of them fall out of the top 20 picks. I mean, these guys are just too good as prospects. And that's without mentioning the other side of the football. I mean, Carnell Tate is a guy that's going to be drafted highly in this draft class. Yeah, I mean, this is a nasty Ohio State roster, which honestly, it makes, it puts it in that much more focus that Indiana was able to play a slug, like a slug fest game with this team and come out on top.

And obviously having the better quarterback is a big part of that. But were there, I mean, what other pieces of this Indiana roster would you want to highlight? Obviously, the defense was fantastic. Indiana's receivers made the plays when they needed to. I just can't say enough about it. Yeah. And I mean, I give so much credit. Indiana defense.

And look, they, they're not going to have as many name brand guys. You know, like none of the Indiana defenders are first round players, but they're all really good players who, and several of them will get drafted. Safety Lewis Moore, he had that first quarter interception. That's a dude who has turned himself into a draft pick this year. He was at Indiana, transferred to Ole Miss, and then transferred back to Indiana this year. And he was probably a priority free agent. over the summer, if the draft was last summer.

Now we're talking about him as being somewhere in the mid-rounds. Stephen Daly, the defensive end. He was shooting gaps all night. He's a little bit of a tweener end tackle, the line him up inside the tackle, but his quickness was on display. I think he led the team in pressures against Ohio State. Kent State transfer.

He absolutely has a shot to get drafted now based on how he's played. DeAngelo Ponds at Corner. He got picked on a little bit. I think I charted. He gave up seven catches. for a lot of yards. But he also, you know, he had some key moments as well where he was able to make a play.

And especially going up against Jeremiah Smith, who he's known for a long time, you know, that was a factor in this game. Eden Fisher was solid as usual. So, yeah, it was a game where Indiana doesn't have those name brand guys. But at the same time, anybody that watched that game came away thinking, like, this, in no way was Indiana outman.

matched and it was like the plucky underdog being able to upset the big bad Ohio's. I mean, this was an equal footing type of game. So one other or two other guys I do want to mention two very underrated players in this game and prospects that I think we need to know. And they've played well all season. Well Keck Merrick from Ohio State, tight end. Riley Nowakowski, tight end for Indiana. These guys are not flashy, but they get the job.

done. And I'll call my shot right now. I'm going to say both of these guys get drafted in April. Kathmerich is 6.5, 260, 33 inch arms, steamrolls dudes, especially in the run game. He's rarely targeted. But when he does get a chance, he catches the ball, looks natural doing it. And then now, Akowski, he had a key, he had that key fourth down catch on the fourth and two. And the very next play, he got the upper hand on Curry, setting the edge, opened the hole for, I think it was like a nine-yard gain. So just just the good stuff from these two guys doing the dirty work when they're targeted, they make plays. It's the type of stuff that NFL teams are really going to appreciate. So both these guys, I bet get drafted in April. I'm thinking about Jackson Hawes right now.

Exactly. And what he's been up to in Buffalo and I'm saying, oh, tell me about all the tight ends you can find who are good blockers who offer something in the passing game. And it certainly feels like a trend to have an eye on that NFL teams are going to be looking for those guys. Even if they're not big time top 50 draft prospects, the value is apparent with what we're seeing in the NFL game right now. So I think that is a really good point. All right. I think that does it for Ohio State, Indiana. We got a couple other conference championship games. We want to head on. We'll do that on the other side of this break. All right, Dan, I think we can do the other major conference championships a little bit quicker because they weren't all that entertaining. Georgia bludgeon.

Alabama 28 to 7 on Saturday afternoon. Texas Tech on Saturday morning beat BYU 34 to 7. So not as much drama, not as much intrigue in these games. Still some things we want to hit on though. And I mentioned it. I'm really, I'm really sad about what has transpired for our guy, Ty Simpson since we said he was the man. And I said it on Twitter.

We are. I said it on Twitter on Saturday. The moment that I. I spoke into a microphone that Ty Simpson's small start sample size didn't bother me because of the way he was playing. He looks like a guy who needs to play more football. And it was it was very obvious on Saturday against Georgia. I would like to say I thought he could have gotten a little bit more help from his receiver core in this game. I think there were some moments where they didn't come through for him the way that they could have.

but still just not a wonderful day for Ty Simpson to wrap up the, I get this part of the season, at least. Obviously, Alabama makes the playoffs. So like we said, he'll have a chance to try to make good on that. But 19 of 39 for 212 yards under duress all day, did not deal very well with what Georgia was throwing at him. And just the latest in what feels like it's been a pretty steady downward trajectory since like Halloween-ish for Ty Simpson.

Well, and it's not like we were jumping the gun. I mean, it was based off two months of tape. Like he was real. It was real, man. It was real for those eight weeks. September, October. Yeah, absolutely. And look, but to that the pre-Hallowing tape and the post-Hallowing tape,

it's as different as you can get. And look, we have to point out it's not just the quarterback, like you said. The run game is awful. The blocking has not been good. Run blocking, pass protection, hasn't been good. Even the past catchers? And with the exception of Jeremy Bernard, I mean, Bernard hasn't been perfect,

but he's the one guy on this offense that I think you can point to as saying he's the lifeline that Simpson needs to look at. But overall, the past catchers have been disappointing. And it's not to give Simpson a pass. And the inconsistent quarterback play has been at the center of this. And so without rehashing that entire game, I kind of want to play this forward a little bit. I do wonder if this could be a Carson Beck like situation

where maybe it's time for both sides to move on. And I know I'm saying this with more games to be played. Alabama got in a playoff. We will see them in Norman against a good Oklahoma defense. And so we're jumping the gun a little bit here. But just as we look forward to this offseason, and a big NFL decision that Ty Simpson has to make. Alabama has five-star Keel and Russell, Texas kid, ready to take over.

If Simpson comes back, at the very least, I think it'll be a competition between those two. And so is this a situation where does he maybe go with the Beck plan where he declares, but then keeps his options open if another team comes in and says, hey, we'll give you a couple mill, come be our quarterback. I think to me that's he needs more experience. He does. I mean, 13 games is just not enough. And we're seeing that play out where I think he's,

he's a very smart quarterback. There are numerous times that you can point to the tape and say, okay, he worked left to right, got through, he worked to his third read. But when I think the defense really changes up the picture and, you know, messes pre and post snap, those are situations where his inexperience really shows. He just hasn't seen that yet.

So when you're a quarterback who has just not seen a lot of things that the defense is going to throw at you, you're at a disadvantage, especially when you're not getting the blocking done in front. And at the NFL level, when everything's just so much faster, good luck. So hopefully Ty Simpson goes back to school, whether it's at Alabama, somewhere else.

I've heard some say, well, he's already 23 years old. You know, he needs to go now. I don't buy that at all. I mean, I don't, I don't think teams care about age. That feels less true than it's ever felt these days. Absolutely. Two years ago, Bo Nix and Michael Pennix were both drafted way earlier than a lot of people thought.

They were both 24 years old. Joe Burrough and Jason Daniels were all talk about. Very old prospects. Exactly. Yeah, so Simpson, yeah, he'll be 23 later this month. Yeah, he'll be 24. If he goes back to school, he'll be 24 going into the 2027 draft. That's just not as much of a.

an influential data point as I think, you know, as most people think at least. Especially playing quarterback where obviously the wear and terror is not going to be as high as it would be for some other positions. And I mean, Ty Simpson is a, he's an athletic guy,

but it's not as if his game is dependent on his mobility, which might be, might be a concern for an older prospect. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. And yeah, I think if an NFL team thinks you can be a 10-year starter, they don't care. Like they're going to draft you and be perfectly fine with that decision.

Like, you know, it's just not as much. Now, obviously the context matters. You know, if you were a below average quarterback, that all of a sudden at the age of 24, you turned it on and you're beating up on, you're playing much better against 20-year-olds, like that's different context. With Ty Simpson, he waited his turn, wanted to be at Alabama, and he's played well.

It's just he needs a little bit more experience. And so if he's able to go back to school, have a strong 2026 season, he's right back in that first round conversation. This is why the landscape is so different and interesting, though, because, and it's a very good point about what's going on at Alabama. And you're not the first person I've heard suggests that Keel and Russell's presence on the roster could prompt an uncomfortable conversation or two. And if you're Ty Simpson, it's interesting to think, like, do I transfer? And obviously, I would imagine there's got to be a boatload of schools that would be willing to pay him good money to come be their quarterback. I can think of one in Baton Rouge that I'd be excited to hear offered him some money. But you look at that and you could transfer and go be a starter or do you say, well, I am already 24 years old and I could just get drafted.

and even if I fall a little bit further than I thought I might, you get the paycheck and you get a chance to develop and already be in an NFL system. I think college is just a little more appealing than it used to be when you consider you can make that kind of money getting more college starts, but it's an individual, it's a person by person choice, and I'll be interested to see what he thinks when this playoff run is over. Yeah, I mean, heck, he almost went to Tennessee.

and he's from Tennessee. I think if there wasn't the coaching issues when he was coming out as a recruit, he probably would have ended up at Tennessee. So they could be in the market potentially. So yeah, I think he'll have options. It's just Alabama being in the playoff and if they win against Oklahoma,

like that just pushes back the decision where a lot of teams feel like they need to make these decisions now. So the Thai Simpson situation is definitely something we need to watch closely. I have a very close eye on it. Don't worry. As somebody who I'm trying to salvage some dignity with where it's gone for him over the last month, I have a very close eye on where that happens.

BYU, Texas Tech, obviously big win for Texas Tech. Really, it's a great story for them that they've made good on the investments that they've made this year. Really fun defense to watch. I mean, we've talked a lot about them. We've talked a lot about the front. I wanted to highlight shocker of shockers the linebackers in this game. I think most people know about Jacob Rodriguez at this point. Ben Roberts, one of the players of this game with two interceptions in this beat down win for Texas Tech.

But yeah, my big takeaway here is, yeah, this is a big boyfriend. I think the Red Raiders have a front that could give any team in college football fits. and these linebackers are a hell of a lot of fun. Yeah, no question. I mean, Ben Roberts, he's not a guy that came up in like conversations with scouts as a junior that's looking to go pro. But shoot, you have a performance like that in the Big 12th championship game and then maybe you keep that going in the playoffs. Maybe that changes. But yeah, Jacob Rodriguez going from a PFA.

He's not getting drafted based off of his junior tape. All of a sudden, that's, that changes now. I don't know if Jacob Rodriguez is going to test well enough to get into the top 100 picks, but if he's, you know, even test a little above average, he'll have a shot for sure with what he's put on tape this year. I also want to not just the front seven, but in the secondary, Bryce Pollock, he grabbed my eye, barely a blip on the NFL radar over the summer, low end, not even a priority free agent, more of just a low end undrafted free agent type of grade. Now he's in that late round conversation because the way he's played this year.

a pass break up against BYU. That Texas Tech team is going to be fun to watch in the playoffs because of this defense. And like I said, Oklahoma, Oregon, they get past James Madison. That'll be a fun one to watch. Sticking with BYU, I mean, they don't have a lot of draftful players in this class, at least. But LJ. Martin, the running back, he's one of them, he's one of the few, if he declares, some scouts believe he will. Texas Tech was able to keep him.

relatively quiet. And I think Martin is a really good player. I think there's a good chance he'll be he'll finish as a top five running back for me in this class, assuming that he does declare. Not going to, we don't need to write off James Madison too many more times in one podcast, but assuming Oregon does win that game, which they're heavily favored to win at home. Yeah, that that one's pretty easy to circle when you talk about is Dante more going to declare what are his prospects as an NFL as a as a prospect in this draft class not to mention this Texas Tech defense which sorry to the Big 12 I think you're not seeing them go against the best of the best as regularly as you see from teams in the Big Ten and in the SEC so a very intriguing

matchup although we're going to get into the playoff previews next week we don't have to do that right now we got plenty more to talk about on this episode, I did want to hit on, if you want to call it a controversy, whatever, Notre Dame's decision to opt out of its bowl game after missing the playoff, as well as a couple of other teams that are going to do so. We'll talk about that on the other side of this break. All right, Dan, let's call this off-season housekeeping because the season is officially over for a lot of the teams in major college football.

Obviously, teams that didn't make a bowl game. And then there were a few that were bowl eligible. that opted not to play a bowl game. Although I did want to start this segment. We're going to follow it up with something we talked about earlier this season. And as teams move into their off season, I heard you had an update for me on the situation at Wisconsin and what we talked about earlier this year

with Luke Fickles' preferences toward allowing the NFL into the Badgers facility. Yes. I mean, quick refresher, mid-October. I tweeted how Wisconsin, specifically Coach Fickle, had been very restrictive when it came to scouts, being at practice, and just overall the access was a problem. One of the few programs that was limiting scouts instead of helping them. Wisconsin was in the middle of a bad losing streak

when that tweet blew up and media asked Fickle about it after the Ohio State game. He, of course, denied it. But the number of texts and messages I received the next day from scouts and directors about, oh, I can't believe it denied it. And, you know, he's calling him a liar and all that. A day later, ESPN confirms my report.

So I think most people know it's real. Fast forward a month. And I'm catching up with a scout. And he mentioned how he was in Madison recently. And he said they rolled out the red carpet. They bent over backwards for additional access, additional info. They even sent a thank you note for being on campus. And look, this is exactly why I tweeted it.

And I know there were a lot of Badgers fans. that were very upset with me because they were thinking I'm sharing this stuff and I'm trying to kick a program while it's down and I'm just piling on. That was not the case at all. I've met Coach Fickle just once. I don't know him,

but he has a reputation of being a good guy, good coach. The only thing I was trying to do is fix the problem. Scouts, they have a hard enough job. And the only thing that is going to fix something like that is public pressure. And so I'm not trying to stir the pot, cause drama. Scouts have a hard enough job. And this is just all about looking out for them.

And so I'm happy to report that in this case, it worked. And they were able to, you know, Wisconsin made some changes. And all of a sudden, the scouts are able to do their job a little better when they're in Madison. We're a pro-scouting community podcast here. We're looking out for the guys out on the road. A four- and eight season for the badgers. got it trending in the right direction-ish over the final month of the season, swapped some wins and losses.

But I'll, I mean, and obviously Luke Vickle managed to hold on to the job at Wisconsin, which wasn't a given around the time that that you reported that. So be interested to see how that looks this year heading into the season and what those relationships look like as the badgers try to refine their footing in the season. in the very crowded Big Ten. A couple other things we wanted to hit on. I mentioned it before the break. I'm interested by, I am not interested in talking about Notre Dame's decision and what went

into it to not take part in a bowl game. I don't really care about the playoff aspect of it, at least for the purposes of this podcast. But Notre Dame, Kansas State, Iowa State, the very rare. territory of three teams with bowl eligibility opting not to play in a bowl game. Notre Dame being the most pertinent of those for our purposes, because without being part of the playoff, obviously, I mean, you could have assumed we weren't going to see Jeremiah Love in a meaningless bowl game anyway.

Now you're not going to see the entire roster. And I'm just curious for your thoughts from a scouting perspective, I think at this point, we're all used to the idea of bull opt-outs. But one game of tape that you're not getting for an entire team, I'm curious for your thoughts on the effect that that could have on guys who aren't Jeremiah Love, who are not guaranteed to be top 15 draft picks. Right. Yeah. The shock of players not playing in the bowl game is long worn off.

I mean, we're a decade removed from Christian McCaffrey and Leonard Fournett opting out, prepare for the NFL draft. So, yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. Jeremiah Love was not going to play in a non-playoff bowl game. Price, the other running back, probably not either. There would have been other opt-outs. So Notre Dame opting out is a little bit of sour grapes, yeah. But I'm with you.

For the most part, I don't care. It's not something that I'm getting worked up about one way or the other. I think it's more of an emotional decision rather than a rational one. You play in a bowl game, you get a ton of extra practices, chance for freshmen to play. of course they'll be opt-outs, but it's valuable experience for young guys. I think the one area where it would bother me

is there's seniors on this roster who they're not slam-dunk prospects or slam-dunk draft picks. They had a chance to play in one more game. And not only to put good stuff on tape, maybe with some better opportunities, depending on who in front of them would opt out, but it's just from a chance

to play one more final game. Will Pauling, you know, is he going to play another football game in his life? I don't know. Maybe. But there are more than a handful of those guys that, you know, I'm sure would have liked to play one more football game. And so it's a bummer they don't get to. And, you know, it's part of the blame is Notre Dame.

Part of the blame is the system as a whole, you know, like it's just, it's a mess. And we all know it'll, you know, they'll fix it over the off season to address what happened this year. But then something new will happen next year. year and we'll be talking about that. So it's unfortunate that it is what it is. But, you know, we have seen the last of Jeremiah Love and some really good players in Notre Dame uniforms. And, you know, next time we'll see him will be in the NFL. I'm curious because I've been thinking about this. And I hear your point. But if you're a member of that Notre Dame team and after what

happened with the selection committee, you look at your teammates and say, we beat the shit out of Stanford, 49 to 20, and we played a great game. It was over at halftime. We're comfortable if that is our final moment as a team, if that's it. And that sounds good other than, really, I think about the guys who have a shot to get drafted or get invited to a rookie minicamp or something like that. And to not have that game, I don't know, it feels like it could be meaningful to me, or do you think I'm overreacting?

Like at this point, is there enough hay in the barn with 12 games of tape that this is not something worth worrying about? Or the other aspect of this too is like, I get that a bowl game full of opt-outs where the best players aren't playing.

It might not be very compelling to us, but that's more opportunity for a guy who might not get that much playing time to get onto the field. I don't know. Where do you come down on? that. Like, does this feel like a big deal that some fringe

guys might not get those 50 to 70 extra snaps? Or is it like, ah, we got 12 other games we can look at? Yeah, no, I, that's, I agree 100%. I mean, we're not talking about the Jeremiah loves here. We're talking, and maybe not even like the Eli Raridens,

you know, the talented tight end who put himself in a maybe draftable position based off of how we played this year. You know, he has injury stuff in the past. So maybe he would have opted out of the bowl game. Who knows? I do

think that a couple of things. It sounds like it was a player-led decision. And so, you know, I doubt it was unanimous, but it sounds like it wasn't like the AED saying like, oh, they wronged us so we're not going to play or

the coaching staff. It sounds like this was a player led decision. So that's part of it. And the other thing, listening to our great Notre Dame writer Pete Sampson, he kind of seemed, he seemed to think that if they didn't do those weekly shows with the

rankings leading up to this and it was just one final reveal, Notre Dame would have would be playing in a bowl game. It was more of the, hey, we think we're going to the playoffs because we've been ranked that high all along. No way they're going to drop us in the final week when

we didn't even play. So I think it very much an emotional decision that they made here based off of some, you know, a process that is very flawed. And it's something that is obviously needs to be addressed. But yes, I think this is a very emotional decision that it's, you know, is one game going to matter all that much for some of the fringe guys? Probably not.

But, you know, it's still, I'm sure some of these guys would have liked to have one more game, put some good stuff on tape, and, you know, at the very least kind of go out with knowing it was your last game. Because I really think Notre Dame thought they were going to be in the playoffs. So they weren't, I don't think they were thinking Stanford was their last game. Which, so that's a tough way for your career to end. I have a boatload to say about the state of how we do this in college football. But that's not really the point of this show.

Maybe we'll grab a beer sometime and we can talk about all of it. But that would derail the purposes of this. Iowa State and Kansas State, very different situations you're doing this. because of coaching transitions. Obviously, so that means no more big citrus, your guy, Dominique Orange, on a college football field. Is there anybody from Kansas State worth highlighting now that, I mean, now that they're done playing?

I mean, I guess we've seen the last of those guys as well. Yeah, safety, Vijay Payne is a good player. He'll get drafted somewhere on day three probably. And then, you know, I really like the receiver, Brown, Jace Brown, who is a junior. I don't think he's made his NFL decision yet. And so that'll be interesting if he does declare he has a chance to be a top 100 pick. So, you know, not having that.

And again, we don't know if these guys would have played anyways. They might have been opt-outs. But yeah, it's a bummer that we don't get to see them anymore. But, you know, it's that point in the calendar. We've had a couple guys, you know, declare Avion Terrell from Clemson, announced he's going to the NFL, Anthony Hill Jr. from Texas, a linebacker announced. He's skipping his senior year.

He's going pro. So, you know, it's just that time in the calendar when a lot of these guys are checking out and flipping the page to a new chapter. A couple quick hits I wanted to do before we got out of here. And we will have, we'll do a full preview of

the prospects in the first round of the playoffs, but given that we've got some time, we'll do that on next week's episode. Just FYI. But I wanted to hit. There is one more football game, Dane, before the postseason officially starts. Obviously, it's one of the coolest traditions in the sport. It's the Army Navy game on Saturday afternoon in Baltimore.

Navy's 9 and 2. Army is 6 and 6. And it's an awesome game and something worth watching regardless. But you told me that there's actually at least one draftable prospect in this game. Yeah, Eli Hydenreich. He's a fun player. He plays the snipe position for that Navy offense where it's basically a, you're a slot running back, I guess.

And, you know, he's a slot back. And that's, he catches the ball a lot more than you think Navy was going to throw it. But he's the all-time leading receiver in Navy history. He'll be a running back at the next level. He's about six foot, 205 pounds. you know, he's, with his receiving ability, I think he has a chance to be a pretty good third downback. You know, he can be a real mismatch.

You put him up against a safety against a linebacker. He can get open quickly. He can track the ball downfield, good body control. As a strictly as a runner, I think he has vision. I mean, he has run strength. So, you know, he's someone that is, I think, an easy player to like as that day three, kind of a change of pace running back with what he can do in the passing game.

Eli Heidenreich number 22 for Navy, 1,200 scrimmage yards this year to go with seven touchdowns. So something to keep an eye out for if you're watching that game on Saturday afternoon. Also Saturday, the Heisman ceremony, the invitees have been announced. It is shot not surprisingly. Fernando Mendoza out of Iowa, Diego Pavia,

the quarterback at Vanderbilt, Jeremiah Love, and Julian Sayan, are the four guys going to New York. I think that sounds about right. I don't know. Do you have thoughts, Dane? Can I try to sell you on Diego Pavia one more time?

Diego Pavia, awesome college player. I don't have a vote if I did. I think it would go to Fernando Mendoza. Just the stats are good. It's not amazing. We're not talking about Joe Burroughs level season here. But just watching him and I don't know. it's kind of the exclamation point on what Indiana has been.

And, you know, I think some people, especially, you know, an SEC country, are going to want to give the Pavia, especially as like a door prize for Vanderbilt not making into the playoff. Like, you know, here's, you know, you get the Heisman instead. And, you know, it's, it is what it is. But I do think that Jeremiah loves getting lost in all this too, which he's been the most exciting player I've seen in college football. So, you know, I think.

that one of those three probably going to win the award, but personally, I would vote for Mendoza. I don't want to sound like a hater. And I think like you can make a good case for any of these guys. And if Fernando Mendoza wins because he's been good and because

of what Indiana has accomplished, I mean, what a cool story if an Indiana football player wins the Heisman trophy. I would have no beef with that. But I was just looking at it. You mentioned Joe Burroughs stats. Realize none of the quarterbacks in this crop of Heisman candidates

is really even sniffing the numbers that like the last five or six Heisman quarterbacks put up. I went and double checked. Caleb Williams in 2022 was just shy of 5,000 scrimmage yards with 52 22 total touchdowns. Bryce Young, very similar numbers. Joe Burrow put up 6,000 yards and 65 touchdowns. Kyler Murray, 5,300 total yards.

and 54 touchdowns. Baker Mayfield just shy of 5,000 total yards and 48 total touchdowns. You look at these guys, Pavia's just north of 4,000 total yards with 36 touchdowns. Mendoza, 3,100

total yards and 39 touchdowns. Like, good numbers, but compared to the video game stuff we've gotten used to over the last decade or so, it's a little bit underwhelming, man. And I get it, It's not all about, it's not all about counting stats,

but it is, it is kind of striking to see it compared and contrasted with some of the stuff we've seen in recent history. I mean, even Pavia as a rusher has been fantastic, but you think it stuff that guys like Tim Tebow did in college, where you're rushing for like 20 touchdowns. And it just, it leaves me wanting a little bit, Dan. I'm willing to say that and I'll risk sounding like a hater. And I think that we've spent it forward to NFL draft.

Like the last 21 Heisman trophy winners, 19 were first round picks. Diego Pavia is not going to be a first round pick. We know that. It's more of a question of does he get drafted or not? And so it's been a long time since we've seen a Heisman trophy winner not get drafted. And so it's just, it's interesting when we, you know, for this, our purposes with this podcast, it's interesting when we look at these guys as prospects. I will say this.

I'm a firm believer that you don't have to be a top 10 caliber pick to win the Heisman trophy. It's strictly about who was the best most dominant player in that college season. I'm firmly on board with Tim Tebow winning that 2007 Heisman. He was freaking incredible that year. But when you're just talking about like overwhelming dominance statistically, it just doesn't feel like we've had that player this season. although I think you can make a perfectly acceptable case for any of these guys. One more thing I wanted to hit.

Not to put you on the spot, but do you know the last player who won the Heisman who did not get drafted? It's someone in the last 25 years. And it was, it was either, okay, I would bet it was either Jason White or Eric Crouch. You're very good at what you do. It's Jason White, yes.

Yeah, that sounds like. 2003 He, he was that the year. stole it from Larry Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald should have won that year. But, uh, yes. Yeah, that was, uh, well, and in Crouch is actually, right. He was a third round pick, but I was going to say, yeah, my apologies to Eric Crouch. He was drafted. But I just, I knew it was one of those early 2000s at the time big 12 quarterbacks. But it's rare. It's, it doesn't happen very often. And, you know, Pavia, we've talked about before. Um, and we'll talk about him again, uh, as a

prospect, you know, he's, he's very much a borderline guy where all the scouts, I talked to. None of them have a draftable grade on him, but they all say the same thing. We won't be surprised at all if he sneaks somewhere in those later rounds, especially once he gets in front of coaches. One last thing we wanted to do, and this was not on my radar at all, until Saturday night, while the conference championship games were going on. One of the most shocking upsets in recent memory took place in the FCS playoffs when Illinois state took down undefeated number one perennial national champion North Dakota State in Fargo.

And so I figure we could wrap the show up by doing a little bit of FCS talk and see if Dane can find us some prospects in the FCS playoffs because this is this is building the beast. We're looking for everybody. And I'm really, I'm intrigued by these quarterfinals in the FCS playoffs, Dane. Like it wasn't just Illinois State beating North Dakota State. you had South Dakota upset Mercer and you've got so now you've got Illinois State playing UC Davis. You've got Montana playing South Dakota.

Villanova upset Lehigh in the second round of the playoffs. They're playing Tarleton State. So in a sport and Dane, you know this well because you lived in the Dallas area with me. North Dakota State was in this game every year for like a decade. and now it looks like we could have a brand new looking FCS champion. I'm very into what's going on here. Yeah, I mean, Dallas Holmes, the tight end from South Dakota is a name to know. There are a few others, but I do want to hit on that North Dakota State.

It is a bummer. We're not going to see them anymore. But credit to Illinois State for, I watched back that tape and Illinois State just got after them. The pass rush. And when you think of North Dakota State, you think offensive line, they could, the offensive line just could not block them. And Cole Payton, the quarterback, who is one of the biggest risers this year. I mean, he was talked to scouts over the summer and because he waited his turn four years behind Miller,

who was drafted last year, finally going to get his shot to be a quarterback, the starting quarterback for the bison. But, I mean, teams are talking about him as maybe a tight end convert over the summer. He takes over the start of this year and plays, plays really well. And he's a big lefty, kind of reminds. reminds me of Michael Penix, like just with the way he looks when he throws the ball. Same type of scattershot accuracy and inconsistent negotiation with pressure as well. But he can really sling it. And, you know, he's raw.

He's very inexperienced. But he's going to be drafted somewhere in the mid-round's probably. But this was not his best game. And it's funny when you rewatch that tape because the very first play was an out and up from Bryce Lance and a 78-year touchdown. And it's like, oh, North Dakota State is going to roll again. And it was there two guys that are going to get drafted. Lance has a chance to be a top 100 pick, sneak into the third round maybe. And Cole Payton, like I said, he's probably turned himself into a mid-rounder.

But credit to Illinois State for really shutting them down. And, you know, those two guys, North Dakota State, they can turn the page and look towards draft prep now. North Dakota State and South Dakota State won. They've won the last four FCS national titles. They both got eliminated in the second round of the playoffs. And like I said, North Dakota State has won 10 of the last 13 FCS national titles. So the field is as wide open as it's ever been. And there are some good potentially draftable players playing this weekend in the FCS playoffs.

So if you're hanging around, I know at least a couple of these games are like they should be nationally televised. So that's definitely something to keep an eye out for this weekend without, you know, as we wait for the first round of the college football playoff. to start until then that'll do it for us like I said we'll be back next week to preview the opening round of the CFP we will talk to you all next time we appreciate it thanks