The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The hardest players to evaluate in the 2024 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 11, 2024

Robert Mays, Nate Tice and Dane Brugler chat about which players in this year’s NFL draft class are the hardest to evaluate, from running backs to defensive linemen to defensive backs. They also talk about the work that went into The Beast, the annual guide to the draft that Dane compiles for The Athletic - now available on The Athletic’s site. Read the 2024 Edition of The Beast, By Dane BruglerFollow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceFollow Dane on Twitter: @dpbruglerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys today. We're going to chat about some of the guys that were hardest to evaluate in this draft, the guys that were just hard to pin down for one reason or another for our two resident draft experts here at the Athletic Football Show. Here to help me do that. First off, it's Nate Tyson.

Nate, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing well. It feels weird to be going for. first when our other person on this podcast has such a big day. It's basically his holiday. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. Yes.

Yeah, April 10th. That's what it is. I don't know if we're going to do like the first Wednesday, the second Wednesday of every April, you know, kind of like that. That's how we'll do it. But no, I'm doing very well. Very excited. Dig into the show. Talk about different positions, which would be very, very fun.

Also joining us today. It is his day. Our draft expert here at the athletic. It's Dan Brugler. Dan, how are you feeling today, man? I'm good. It's just, it feels very, it's a sigh of relief to just be able to share this. Like if there's something I need to tweak, there's a typo, I don't even care.

Just it's out there in the world. Everyone can consume it and do it with it as they please. A lot of great feedback so far. That's, you know, the compliments, all the feedback has been awesome. And it makes it all worth it. You know, a lot of sleepless nights, a lot of year-round work. And so you put it all into this one document. in this one day. But yeah, so far it's been awesome to, you know, hear from everybody. And so

far, so good. It seems like people like it. And I think it'll take a few more weeks before people can really get through it and all the stuff that's in there. But if you're, yeah, if you're a casual fan, if you're a diehard, there's something here for everybody. And so as long as you have your athletic subscription, it's included. So if you haven't seen it yet, go check it out. what we're alluding to is Dan's draft guide the beast came out on Wednesday,

April 10th. 1800 players are, just shy of 2,000 just shy of 2,000 players have official testing information and we have 400 plus scouting reports

on pretty much every single player that is going to get drafted. We're talking about high school background, family background, what sort of recruit they were, what the recruiting process looked like, what happened early in their college career,

what happened later in their college career, Do they switch positions? What do scouts have to say about them? What do their position coaches have to say about them? What do teammates have to say about who they were in the locker room? What sort of leader they are? What sort of presence they are? What sort of maturity issues we might be dealing with?

We're talking about this for 400 guys. If you want to prep for what the draft is going to look like, there is truly, and I'm not saying this because he's on this show. He's my friend. There is truly nothing like this. So right now, stop what you're doing, press pause. the only time I'll ever tell you to do this, go to the athletic and get your subscription

if you do not have one so you can get access to the beast. If you're listening to this show, you should read this document. The overlap here, the event diagram is a circle. So I highly, highly encourage you guys to go do that right now if you have not because it is an indispensable resource in this space and it is truly unlike any other product

that is released around the NFL draft every single year. And Dane does tireless work to make this thing what it is. and I would love if you guys would go and support him even more than you do right now. Thank you. I appreciate that. And even if you don't agree with all my rankings or evaluations,

just use it as a resource guide. Even better. Yeah. Like you said, Robert, it's all the background information and all the, like there's a lot of things in here that even if you don't agree with how I see a player, that's fine. You'll still get so much out of this draft guide.

Over 400 players in it and over 400 characters in the past. That's what that. Trust me. We had a conversation about that, or I had a conversation after the fact about that. So it is what it is. Yeah. Hey, it's great. It's great. It passes every password check. They'll be out there. There's always good nuggets in here. My favorite one today, Cooper Beebe's dad played at Pittsburgh State. Who else played at Pittsburgh State? Nate. That was an NFL player in the last like 10 years. Wide receiver. Oh, wide receiver. John Brown. It's John Brown. John Brown was played to play to Pittsburgh State. and his mom was a basketball player at Kirkwood Community College, that's where my brother went before he went to the University of Iowa. So no matter who you are or where you reside in the world, I'm sure something about the background of one of these guys is going to touch your personal experience. That's a sort of breadth of information that we're talking about here.

And that's my favorite part of doing this guy is diving into the background of all these guys. And to figure out where they're headed, understanding where they're from. and the journey they've taken, because no two journeys are the same. And it's really, you know, it's a great opportunity for the families of these, all these players to, you know, get a little bit of attention on them as part of their report. So, yeah, like I said, there's something for everybody in here.

And I really appreciate everyone checking it out. What's so awesome is that it's timeless too, Dane. Like, I would say, I'm not going to lie, I did not watch Byron Young last year, who was playing with the ramps. He shows up for me in preseason when I'm watching them. I go back to the beast. And I look at it. I was like, oh, okay, he is older.

Oh, okay. But that was his, oh, all the transfers. He was late. Okay, he was late to football. Knew nothing about it. But that, it's not just a resource for the next couple weeks. It's a resource for years. No, but it's awesome.

I know we've so much praise. It's so worth it, Dan. Free agency in four years. You can go back, oh, what did he run in his pro day? What was his 40 time? Or, you know, like, even stuff like that. Yeah, like you said, that's, it's a resource guide for the next 10 years. And it's,

almost like a time capsule of what these guys are right now. And so, yeah, I hear from a lot of people that have been getting this guide for years and years, and they still reference it to this day. I, all the stories, back when I used to be a sports writer, one of my favorite things to do every single year was do like a pre-draft profile of someone, just because every single one of these, so many of these guys just have incredible backstories. I remember going with Danny Shelton to the corner where his brother was killed, and the cemetery that day

and just how powerful that was. I went to visit late in Vandreche, this tiny little town, like up on the top of a mountain where he grew up in Idaho and there was like 400 people who lived there. It just the fact that I did one of those

every single year, and I felt like that was a big lift, and Dane does 400 of them to some extent, I think tells you about what sort of work we're talking about here. So please go check that out if you have not. Today, we're going to dig into

some of the tougher evaluation in that draft guide and some of the tougher evaluations that both of you guys have had to dig into over the course of this process. What we're going to do today is we're going to go position by position and talk about the players at those spots that were the hardest for both of you to evaluate. So let's start. We're going to skip quarterbacks. We talked all about quarterbacks. We've done quarterbacks. We're also going to skip receivers because we had this exact conversation last week about receivers. So we're going to start today is it running back a position. We really haven't talked about it all other than mentioning and passing that there are no highly draftable running backs in this class. So let's start with your guy, Dane. Yours was Braylon Allen from Wisconsin, who you have at 97 on your big board. Nate has him at 77 on his big board. What about Braylin Allen's evaluation was tough for you as you were trying to parse it? I think the fact that you look at him and you see a guy that looks like a linebacker.

He actually went to Wisconsin as a linebacker. Yeah. So again, you learn that in the beast. So he goes to Wisconsin. Exactly, right. So he looks like a linebacker, but he doesn't always play like you would expect. I mean, he's a good athlete for a size.

Unfortunately, no testing information for him. He's still working his way back. I think he could work out. I'm sure he's doing the workouts on his own and the numbers aren't where he wants him to be. So we're not going to have official numbers, testing numbers for him. But he's a good athlete for his size.

It's just, I don't know, he's more finesse than physical and a guy that's just going to run you over. He has some power to him just because his body is built the way it is. But I, and that also you factor in, you know, the durability has been a question mark. This year was his lowest output in terms of rushing because of battling some injuries, you know, some fumbles. So I like him as a player. It's just, I'm not sure. okay, like, what's his best comp? What's, what do we, can we think he could be a workhorse at the next level?

Or is he just a complimentary back? I'm just, I'm trying to get there, trying to get a firm opinion on this is what he's going to look like in the NFL. And I have a tough time doing that with him. 235 and worries about his physicality from you, I think, is pretty telling. The fact that it's more of a finesse player at that size, you comped him to Tyler Algier is like the type of profile he might fit in the league. Tyler Alger was a fifth round pick.

So if you're talking about a guy that, you know, other people have in the top 75 or could go in the, on day two, and you're counting him in Tower Al Juer was a fifth round pick. I think, again, that's also pretty telling. Nate, you have him at 77. I'm wondering if this is a bit of badger blindness, badger bias, whatever bees you want to go with. But why are you a little bit higher, do you think, on Braylin Allen than Danes?

I've crushed them for years as a badger fan a little bit. Oh, you're not this. you're not this, because there is some frustrations because he has such a big body, and you want him just to barrel over guys. But I think because of that, it kind of underrates his footwork and underrates some of the finesse ability

that he has in such a big body. I would say because he doesn't bowl over guys, when you watch him on film and you see some of the side tackles he runs through, that's what grew me on him. And ended up, I feel 77's the same. I bet you Dan and I have him graded almost similarly. Almost all these backs are probably about the same grade. It's just that, oh, okay, I like this.

It's the youth with him. I think his hands are actually pretty good, not going to be a great route runner, but if you feel fine, checkdown option, it's not a negative, kind of like Alger. That's a pretty good comparison. I actually was kind of going to go,

another guy who I've experienced with, but it's James Connor without the physicality. And in fact, that's a big body with some nice footwork, doesn't have the, has a little burst, but doesn't have that overwhelming long speed. You know, it gets the one or two gear, but then not the three, four, five.

And that's kind of how he runs. that's who I'm familiar with. Same kind of body type as well and same kind of weight. But the thing is James Conner is going to run over three guys in short yard age and get those tough yards. So I struggle with him a little bit. So I'm glad this would have been one of my guys. I saw that Dane had him. So I was like, okay, good.

Let's talk about him. I ended up liking him more. The more I watched him, the more he grew on me, the more I saw some of the finesse stuff. He's almost a zone runner in a big body, not a power runner that's going to run at a gap scheme. So I think some teams will like that because of the size and stuff. I will say the one thing that did annoy me was after the starting quarterback got hurt last year, he tanked in the middle of the game. And you could see him getting frustrated with his teammates. And it's something that's good.

And I even see Dane that wrote him up that he's competitive and everything. That's kind of why I've heard the same. But also it was like, you know, have a little maturity. You're supposed to be the leader and everything. And you're supposed to be the guy and everyone's feeding off of you. And I saw him kind of give up mentally a little bit when the starter went out. And that's just something anecdotally I noticed. And some I would question him on if I was interviewing him.

But I'm with Dane that he's weird. He's finessey in a big body. I do like him, but I do understand he has limitations. And then you throw in the fact that he's literally one of the youngest players' prospects we've ever seen. I mean, there's not a lot of guys. He's going to be 20 throughout his entire rookie season. Yeah. Just turned 20 years old in January.

And so that draws another part into this that obviously that's a point in his favor, a guy that's this young that has, should theoretically get better and better as he continues to mature physically, mentally. But, you know, how do you factor that age into, and that's part of why I wanted to talk about him because how do you factor that age into his evaluation in terms of stacking these running backs? It does, it's a little bit tough to do. Especially at a position like running back, which is, quote unquote, the easier position

to learn. It's not like we're saying it's a quarterback or a tackle or something like that. Let's shift to another Big Ten running back here, Nate. Yours was Blake Corum from Michigan. You had him at 86 on your big board. Dane had him at 77. Both pretty close in terms of the overall ranking. Dane had him as his running back two, though.

And Nate, you had quorum as you're running back five. So what about Blake Corum made him a difficult evaluation for you in the process? I really want to love him because he's a small back, but he runs big. Him and Allen are opposite. Like, Corum should run like Allen does. much from like Coram, that's based on body type, but runs between the tackles.

He's got good vision. He really knows how to tempo his runs. Like he's a, like he just has that feel, that advanced feel for running, but he's small. He has a little tread on his tires, and that is where my worries come,

show up. He doesn't have receiving production, but I haven't considered that a negative because that's not the offense there. Yeah, JJ McCarthy doesn't have passing production. No, it's not, it's not him split now, do all this stuff from empty.

So it's, you know, so I'm not going to knock him too much because I've seen him catch the ball of the touchdown against Alabama is the one that sticks out. It's wide open, but you can kind of see the soft hands looking at it in and all that.

There's other ones too. But there's just some size concerns and the tread concerns that is always in the back of my mind when I watch him. He did test way better than I actually anticipated, but actually kind of does make sense.

You see him pulling away from guys. He gets those kind of doubles when they're there. I struggle where to rank him because I really like him and I really like his film. It's just that some of the, it's the heart versus head thing

going in here where someone's like, okay, I got to consider his age, got to consider the tread on his tires, and you got to keep that into my factor. So that's why I knocked him down a little bit, but I do really like him. Two stats you throw out about Blake Corum and the B-Stain that I thought were really important. One, 24 runs of 20-plus yards over the past two seasons. So what Nate's talking about with that ability to pull away,

you saw that consistent on me. These are explosive plays that he's putting on tape. On the negative side, though, size at running back, we've seen short guys succeed. Third percentile arm length. which, Dane, you said, really shows up in past protection. He's just not going to be able to get to certain guys because of how small he is in that area.

So even if it doesn't affect him as a runner because he plays bigger than his size, there may be other aspects of Coram's game where that lack of length and lack of size is going to show up in negative ways. There's no doubt. And I think what Nate was saying about Corum as a pass catcher, more dump-off option than anything else.

But he showed at least enough where I'm not too, worried about it. I think he could be a fine pass catcher. But yeah, pass protection, he has a lot of what you want in terms of his mentality to be a really functional pass protector. But physically, that's where he falls short a little bit. And he knows it too. There are times where he will leave his feet way too early because he knows he has to compensate for that lack of length. And sometimes it'll backfire. And so, yeah, that is a, that's a question mark for him. I will was encouraged by his testing, 682-3 cone for Corum.

And yet he is only 205 pounds, but you figure he's under 5-8, so he has some stockiness to him. No, no, I'm fine with it, yeah, yeah. But he's not going to be necessarily push the pile guy either. So, yeah, there's, and I agree with almost everything Nate said. So I think, you know, we see the player similar.

It's just, yeah, where exactly do you nail down how does he stack with the rest of these running backs? It's, and I just want to add in here, it's funny talking to teams about these running backs. You have a completely different order from team to team. Running back two for one team is running back eight for another. These guys are so closely graded together, but the actual stacking of these players is all over the map. And that's been really interesting to kind of parse as you kind of get feedback from teams on these guys. So I wouldn't be surprised if Corum's a second running back drafted or the seventh quarter running back drafted.

It really wouldn't be that surprising. This group specifically, it almost feels like what we've talked about with receivers over the last few years, where even if they played the same position, you got a guy who's 205, you got a guy who's 235. You got Estimate from Notre Dame who's like 255. Even though they're all running backs, stylistically, it just feels like this draft specifically has a wider range than some of the ones in recent memory. The pass protection thing, too, that Dane brought up, that's going to determine some of these landing spots, too. Some teams are like, we need a first and second down back. And some teams are like, we need a guy that can play passing downs? And then Sean Page is going to go, can they run choice routes?

Like, that's like, but seriously, that's what he looks at for his backs. It's like, are you going to have upside there because that's what he wants? But the pass protection stuff is huge. And that's another thing. I actually, I should have mentioned it with, this is why I like Braylon Allen, was he has good pass pro upside. And I've seen him with good eyes and he shows some intelligence there for such a young age and he's willing to meet it. He got better, which most backs do.

They're out of his career, so I did want to mention that too with him before we move on. And he has the body for it. And that's key that you said upside because most college running backs can't pass protect. They're not very good at it. But once they get to the NFL, it's something they have to get better and better at. And that's a good point. Braylon Allen has, I think, the chops, the size, the strength to at least get better

in that area. Two more running backs I wanted to talk about just because you guys are very far apart on them, and we really haven't spent much time on this position. Trey Benson from Florida State, Nate, you have him inside your top 50. I think he's your second running back or first running back? He's my first running back. So he's your number one running back. I'm just on two.

He's inside your top 50. He's the only running back inside your top 50. Dane, you have him 81st on your big board. He's running back three, but there is a pretty significant gap there. Nate, what about watching Trey Benson from Florida State kind of encourage you to push him up that high? It's the explosive playability and better vision than I gave him credit for maybe during the season. And once I watched him, more extensive snaps, he's been part of a rotation. He doesn't, he has injuries, but he doesn't have like overwhelming touches.

And so you're, okay, why is that? Maybe because some of the injuries, we're trying to ease the workload, other talented guys, trying to figure that out. Mora watched him, I just see big playability. He can create angles that other guys can't, but he also has, he's willing to work between the tackles. A lot of guys, this is why I've always never been an ETN guy, is because how much he bounces stuff, and there's so much in between the tackles he lets up. Benson can bounce stuff, but then he will ride a fullback.

He will run in duo and work on a linebacker and do all those things that I like to see from my backs. So he really grew on me, even if he doesn't have the most overwhelming production, he was very efficient and explosive when he did have the ball. I also think his hands are good. He has some highlight real type catches, like stuff where he's adjusting. back shoulders and everything.

So I think he has upside in that area, even if some of it's a little bit unproven at this point of time. But he has true three down back to me with explosive playability. If you can create a touchdown out of nothing or take a single and make it a home run, take a single, make it a double.

And you can catch, I'm really going to prop you up and have size as well where I can think he can take 20 touches in the game that he needs to. So it might not be for everyone. I just think his best football is ahead of them and he just has so much explosive play

and three-down ability that I really like. Yeah, and I agree with most of what you said. My big hang up with Benson is I just don't think he's a really instinctive back. I think he has the areas of his game, especially his burst, his battle. He finds ways to stay on his feet and stay balanced that are just defied gravity. His contact balance is crazy. And he did make a lot more plays as a past catcher this past year. He was the only player in college football that had an 80-yard run and an 80-yard catch this past season in all of college football.

So he has a lot of big play to him. There's no doubt about it. Injuries with him, you know, he had the major knee injury when he was at Oregon before he transferred to Florida State. He wasn't, they didn't really rely on him to beat the bell cow. And so, I mean, he had, he only had one game of over 100 yards rushing this past year. So he had good production. he averaged 5.8 yards per carry. So he had good production,

but he wasn't asked to be the guy. He wasn't asked to carry the ball 18, 20 times a game. He only had 150 so-od carries the entire season. So I think that's can he do more. Yes, I think he can. How much more. And then some of the vision, some of the run instincts, it kind of bothered me a little bit.

It kind of reminded me a little bit of Melvin Gordon where you see the ability, you see the talent. It just wasn't. always, I don't know, the lack of instincts kind of had me hitting pause a little bit, but I still really like him. I still think he's a day two pick and a guy

that can be a productive NFL back. Just some of the question marks gave me a little bit of reservation. Let's get to the offensive tackles here, another group that we haven't really dug into that deep, but there's so many big names, so many guys who go in the first round. Dane, yours, not surprisingly,

the one you had the most trouble with in this process was a Marius Mims from Georgia. He of the eight overall starts that you have at 19 on your big board. Was it just the lack of time on the field for MIMS, or were there actual elements of his game that also made it a little bit more difficult for you to pin down what he is? I didn't have enough tape for me to even know that. I mean, it's the thing.

There's not enough body of work to really pinpoint. All right, this is exactly where he needs to get better. Okay, so let me express my just total naivete. and just ignorance. Why is he a top 20 prospect that? Is it just because of how he's built and the way he moves? Like that's what we're doing with this? Yeah.

It's strictly looking at. I'm just asking the questions. And there's enough like solid tape that you're like, okay, we can project this. Yeah. The fact that he is, he was as good as he was having so little experience. So just naturally he was that good. It gives me a lot of optimism that, okay, once you get him with, an offensive line coach and talking with Duke Manyweather, who he has been working with the past few months down there in Dallas and Frisco,

just talking with him about, okay, specifically the fundamentals that they're working on and where he needs to get better. But, I mean, he's stressed to me. He's like, you know, Dan, I've never worked with somebody like this. The size, the movements, the ability, it's just rare. And so you have to, you draft him with the understanding that it's going to take a little bit of time. but he has and I think there's there's a difference between being inexperienced and being raw.

I think he's more inexperienced than he is truly raw because I think there's a lot of natural ability there. It's just, but again, it does take a leap of faith when you're talking about a guy

with eight starts. But just the fact, when you throw on the Ohio State game from last year and his first career start ever and he was that good, it's like, I can't eliminate that from my mind.

And it's like, okay, I want to, a bet on this in the right situation. If I need to tackle tomorrow, I'm not drafting him top 20. If I can be willing to be a little bit patient and hopefully he starts for me. I mean, think about Broderick Jones last year for the Steelers. They drafted him 14th maybe overall in the draft last year.

And he, you know, he got some action, but he wasn't a down-to-down starter for them the entire year. And so MIMS is even, you know, maybe even need a little bit more time than that. So you have to be comfortable with that aspect of I'm not quite sure. how many games he's going to start for us as a rookie, but long-term thinking, really excited about what he's going to be for us. Another encouraging part of this,

where these guys who are a little bit more projects or incompletes, I think that's the word you use when talking about his college career. Smart guy, like very good student maturity concerns, nowhere to be found. With somebody who has a long way to go, I think that's probably worth taking into consideration if you're some of these teams about MIMS.

And his teammates speak highly of them. they really like I mean Van Pran I included this in his in his report but Van Pran in the center for Georgia who would be a third fourth round pick he summed it up he's like listen you don't need all the reps in the world

when you have these gifts from God he's like he's just that good and sometimes it's as simple as that now it won't always be pretty going up against NFL level defensive tackles and defensive ends in the NFL so that's not going to say it's going to be all perfect for him there will

be rough patches. And that does complicate where exactly you draft him. But when I'm stacking these prospects, I just had a hard time ranking him outside the top 20. And two years from now, when we look back, I might look completely wrong on that. But I'm willing to bet on those traits and say, this guy is just built different. And as long as he stays focused, I think we've got a real player here. Nate, you have him pretty much in a similar range. So I think a lot of this conversation applies to how you have Mims ranked and probably how you've thought about him. He has as much, I was going to say, but he has as much as upside in this draft as anyone, anyone. And these quarterbacks, Marvin Harrison, all these guys we've praised and stuff.

Like, he has that upside. So I'm totally with Dane here. Dan's the one that gave me, maybe put eyes on him last summer and I've kept an eye on him throughout the year. It's one of those, he's, I love that lines. He's not raw. He's just inexperienced because you watch him play. This is not a total project.

It's just going to take time. It's not an overhaul. We have to start from scratch. It's you're more like step two with him. But shoot, the upside with him is just tremendous. The offensive tackle you wanted to talk about, Nate, is a season veteran compared to Marius Mims with his 15 career starts. And that's Tyler Guyton from Oklahoma.

You have him at 37 on your big board. Dane has him at 27. So pretty much in a similar range. But this is another guy who just hasn't played a ton of football, but has overwhelming physical talent. So when you were studying Guyton, what were some of the sticking points to you where you just weren't really sure what to make of him.

I'll start with positives. There's not a lot of guys, just like we talked about MIMS, and this is speaking to this offensive line class, there's not a lot of guys that are built like this that can move like this. That is the number one thing that is in his favor, moving in space, adjusting in space,

just that upside is what's so appealing with him. 34 and a half inch vertical leap at 325 pounds. The guy's an athlete. He's a real athlete. He, to me, is more, even with more starts, even with double the starts of MIMS, is more of a project than MIMS. To me,

I think there is, especially past sets or inconsistent. He just, his technique is just kind of all over the place right now. I also think that even if he plays a little upright for my liking, and that kind of can cause some issues in the run game and pass game. So that's what kind of has kept me from really putting him over the top, or I'm like, oh, yeah, I could see him with some other guys that I have kind of sneaking into the first round. I think he does have that talent to go in the first round. I've just started hedging a bit, but I'm like, I just wanted to see a little bit more of

realistic theory, I guess, like actual practice of him doing it as opposed to what I can see. And maybe some of the reps at the Senior Bowl have me a little concerned where I just saw some one-on-ones and stuff where there was some good and bad with that. So Guyton do like,

I can see him easily going into the first round. I just have more concerns and think of him as more of a project than I do maybe some of the other guys in this tier. He just hasn't played a lot of offensive tackle, Dane, right? I mean, this is a guy who was an H-back at TCU before he transferred to Oklahoma. So we're talking about only a couple seasons

and 20203 was his first time as a full-time starter at right tackle. And there's questions about, okay, why right tackle and not left tackle? Because he, Oklahoma lost both their tackles, and he stayed at right tackle instead of moving the left side. And I think he's the athlete. He has, there's done any question about that. But, yeah, no, I, it's interesting listening to the Oklahoma coaches talk about him. They just, they rave about how different he is movement-wise.

just the way that he can reach certain blocks that others can't. But in terms of the tape and functional offensive tackle play, I agree with Nate. He is behind mims in terms of his fundamentals in terms of consistency. And there's a lot of times where you see this really balanced player in space, but he falls off balance or, you know, his timing isn't right. And so it doesn't matter if you have all the tools if you're not playing on time,

if you're not playing on schedule. And that's something that he needs to work on when he gets to the next level. But with that said, there's just only so many guys that have the gifts that he does. That has, you know, like watching him on like lead runs and seeing him on the outside running 20 yards down the field as a pool blocker, my goodness, this guy is, if you're a safety and see this guy barreling towards you. I don't blame you when you kind of just hide because this guy is a monster out in space. But yeah, he's interesting because all the talents there, but what's the projection?

Is it going to be a year before he's ready to start for you? And that's why, like, I think he'd be, like, projecting the Cowboys at 24. Like, they really need someone kind of like right now. Like, it doesn't, on one end, I think it makes sense, but on another it doesn't. And so he's just, Geyton's a tough guy to project because I think it will take a little bit of time for him. The two teams in that general range that you could talk yourself into them drafting a tackle that they wouldn't have to play right away. And I should have done more thinking about this, but two I'd throw out. Philly, just as some sort of succession plan to Lane Johnson.

He's 33 and obviously the development plan is fantastic there. And the other team in that range, Rashid Walker played well enough for the Packers last year where I don't think if you drafted a tackle on the first round, he would have to play. on day one. Those are the two teams that you could talk yourself into them drafting a tackle and they don't necessarily have a day one, week one need at the position. And those are teams that are willing to chill. Like will on Eagles,

Packers, they're willing to do that and let their guys sit stuff. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The other team, the other guy you threw out, you threw out Nate, was Talisa Fuwaga from Oregon State. I'm curious why. Because he's somebody, he has a ton of work and based on your descriptions of him and what you

wrote about him on your big board, it's Seems like you like him. So what about him was difficult for you? About Fuaga? I couldn't get over the top with him. I like him and I just couldn't love him. And I don't know what it was. Right there with you.

And that's, okay, good. I just want to maybe just talk this out. I want to use a podcast that I get paid for to just like, just go through my brain here. This is scouting therapy. This is what the athletic football show has become. He fires off the ball. He gets to the second level. He will get into double teams from the right tackle position,

Fuaga, with their right guard. and just drive guys. It's translatable stuff, too, because what Oregon State does, his pass sets, I wouldn't say he's okay as a pass protector, but it's not bad. It's just that there's some limitations.

I think he's a little stiff-hipped at times where he can't open up like you'd like to see him against better guys. But that, it's, he moves well, but then he falls off the block on the linebacker sometimes. He doesn't adjust well.

So that agility I just brought him pass protection, it shows up in the run game in space. So it's like, he does these, things within two to three yards that I really like, it's the four to five yard stuff on either end that I'm like, gets me scared. And when Dan started talking, I've seen others say, maybe he's better at a guard. And that's made me a little more comfortable with him. But it's, it's different than a Barton or other guys that I have a little bit higher, Grand Barton or stuff, is that those

guys, I'm like, yeah, I could see them staying at tackle. For a while I'm going, I'm really trying to go, no, he's a guard. And so like, like, the tackle's just in a pinch as opposed to like, oh, which one is he best at? It's more like, I'm really seeing him at guard. So it's limited my upside with him, even if I do like him. So I just kind of, yeah, I just struggled with like how high I wanted to put that. He lacks Twitch for those easy recoveries. There's no doubt about that. Duke Manyweather compared him to Mike Ayupati.

I was going to bring that up, yeah. Yeah, blast from the past. Yeah, I included that in my report because I did. I really liked it. I think it makes a ton of sense, a guy that play a lot of guard. And I think there are a lot of teams. teams do, not a lot of teams, but there are some teams that have him as a guard. I think most teams that I've talked to have him as a right tackle. So again, we're talking about a question,

can you play the left side or is he a right tackle, maybe a guard, that type of prospect. That might limit where you go in the top 20 if you're worried about left tackle flexibility. But yeah, not having those easy recoveries. And I think this is the guy that tries to get that head start. He had six false starts this year because he is a guy that isn't the longest. He has 33-inch arms. Fugga has good range, but not great range. He is a guy that wants to get that head start and get his hands on you because once he gets his hands on you, he can mall you. And that's why he's so good in the run game. But it's that initial, okay, I have to get to you first. And that doesn't know, it's not always the case with him. So yeah, he is tough. He ended up 17 for me,

something like that. Where did he finish for you on your board, Nate? Yeah, you guys. So right in the same rage on him, which is why I was curious that you mentioned him, Nate, because it just feels like you're in line with a lot of people. But I understand it's more about the ceiling than it is what he can be as his floor. And Iupati is an interesting name because Iupati was a 17th overall pick. And he was somebody who played tackle and then moved inside just because he was powerful, but that he really was stiff. He just wasn't a guy who had a lot of flexibility when you watched his game.

And I think that's worth mentioning because I'm sure we have some listeners that don't remember the 2010 NFL draft. Hey, it might be. But 2010, that's what I was trying to remember a year too. Yeah, I know. The recover thing is so key what Dan says. That's everything at tackle play is how you recover. Some guys with Laine, some guys that are freak athletes, some guys are just incredible technicians.

Some guys with balance. And his is what Dan is saying, he gets off. His technique's pretty sound. Where's the upside? Like if he's already losing that way at this point with this many starts, that's where it's like, okay, I can't really see him surviving extended periods. He might be able to, but I just have some more questions than maybe others do. I know, it's funny you say that.

Like, yeah, we haven't graded the same. It's a first round grade near it. Like, you know, but it's still just, I just couldn't get over the top with them. I like that, though. I like that there are all these guys that we're going to talk about. They're all over the place. Some of them, you guys have ranked the same decidedly in the first round. And as we moved to guard here, it's on the other end of the spectrum.

Dane, your guard that you wanted to talk about was Mason McCormick from South Dakota. State. He is the only player that we're going to talk about on this list that is outside of your top 100. You had him slated as a fourth round pick, and I feel like the fact that you wanted to talk about him here, and he's outside your top

100, means that he is stuck in your mind through this process in a way that other guys may not have. What about Mason McCormick do you think justifies this sort of conversation and long look? So watching him on tape, McCormick, at South Dakota State, I mean, whenever you watch,

a lower level FCS division two division three you're looking especially offensive line you want to see that guy just dominate and really overwhelm the guy he's going up against and when you throw on South Dakota State with McCormick he would do that from time to time but he was so stiff painfully stiff with his movements and then I go to I want to go to the Shrine East West Shrine Bowl in Frisco this year I'm standing on the sidelines watching Mason McCorme Cormick just dominate from start to finish. So tape grade was not great.

And then I see him in a person during this All-Star game dominate. And then he goes to the combine and looks really good. I'm like, where's this stiff athlete that I watched on tape? Where did he go? It doesn't make any sense. And so I don't, it's just a, it's a tough guy to come to grips with, okay, what's the final grade? Because the tape says one thing, the All-Star game, the pre-draft process. as another. I mean, there's a lot to like him. I mean, he literally played in 70 games in college.

This guy's got a lot of experience. Even if most of it was FCS, he has a lot of experience. I think he's going to be like a day one backup. And then it's just, okay, how long before he can earn a starting reps and get more regular action, either guard spot. But I don't know. He was hard to project because, again, the tape said one thing. And what I saw with my own eyes at the All-Star game and the Combine said something different. There's so many positives in the report that you wrote and both physical and intangible aspects to his game. As the left guard for South Dakota State, he's making checks the line of scrimmage. That's what they put on him because of what he can do mentally. And if you look at the testing

numbers, if you look at his relative athletic score, which is the number that Kenley Platt puts out, if you guys have not followed him on Twitter, it's a really interesting visual for what these guys look like physically. Mason McCormick, according to that metric, finished seventh among 1,500 guards that have tested since 1987. Seventh. So it's not just that he's a good athlete, it's that his

testing numbers at guard were historic. So I can understand where this has become a little bit complicated for you. That's it. Multi-year captain, yeah, the intangibles are awesome, really enjoyed talking to him at the Shrine game and then at the Combine,

mature kid, but yeah, it's just tough to marry that. And because of that tape, because at the end of the day, I'm going to trust the tape. At the end of the day, I couldn't put him in my top 100, but if he ends up going in the third round, I wouldn't be totally shocked because of that athletic profile you talked about. But still, at the end of the day, the tape didn't show a top 100 player. I still think he's going to be a good pro. I think he's going to be a solid backup and a guy that if he gets into a starting lineup,

I wouldn't be surprised. But to take him in top 100, I just, me personally, I couldn't get there. You didn't have him in your top 100 either, Nate. Do you have similar thoughts after watching him? I mean, I have nothing really to add other than South Dakota Dakota State's one of my favorite offenses to watch, college or NFL. This is just Tucker Kraft to Love just bleeding from one year into the next. A couple years before that, I'm trying to remember, but their offensive coordinator,

Zach Lujan, he just got hired as well. Pierre Strong, the running back? Yep, Pierre Strong, that's who it was. Thank you. Yes, I knew I watched it a couple years ago, but they're, Zach Lujan, their office coordinator, just got hired by Northwestern, so check him out in the Big Ten. but he does some good stuff. I keep an eye on him.

He's a riser. So that's why I got to add to that McCormick discussion because I'm with Dane. They did not see those testing numbers. Actually, the guy I'm about to talk about is kind of a similar discussion. Yours was Cooper Bibi at Garden, Nate,

from Kansas State. You have him at 46 overall on your big board. Dane has him at 38. Your cop to him on your big board on Yahoo was SpongeBob SquarePants because of the way the Cooper Bibi is built.

31 and a half inch arms for my guy Cooper Beebe at like 330 pounds. What did you make of Cooper Beebe's tape from Kansas State? I like him because he has some technician. He's got some muller to him. Did not see these testing numbers that he had on film. I thought he was going to have maybe some limitations. He tested like a good athlete.

And that's where it's kind of, I have no excuses other than the short arms for him. I can see this guy as a good starting guard. It's just those short arms and the SpongeBob SquarePants comparison. come for this because he's so broad-chested and he's so he's strong and everything. It's just that you don't really see with that type of arm length kind of survive. It's more of it. It's a huge outlier. Typically, we talk about guys go from tackle to guard because they don't have 33-inch arms.

He might have to go from guard to center because he doesn't have 32-inch arms. And that's where exactly. It's like, can he survive a guard? No. Then he's a center only. And then that, you know, limits his upside where how high I can put him on the board. I think this guy is a starter. Like, he is a starter somewhere,

somehow. But is that only at center or is that with guard versatility? I'm going to give him a shot at guard because I really like his tape. Like I said, he has some strength to him. He's got plenty of athleticism. He's got some good technique already. I think he's smart. Like, he just does a lot of things well. It's just the arm length. It really, that is the big thing that is just keeping me from bumping him up even more because I think we have him slotted about the same 3846, probably the same kind of grade. So, but yeah, just this guy, I could see him working in the NFL. I just have to keep that in my mind that he would be an outlier. He played a lot of left tackle.

I mean, with those arms, in this economy, he was playing left tackle. Did he play both tackle spots for an entire season before moving to guard full time as last year? Yep, that's it. Well, yeah, he played his red shirt, and then it was right tackle, then left tackle, and then left guard last two years,

mixed in some right tackle this past season because of injuries. So, but yeah, you're not really projecting them as true five-position versatility, but I think it does speak to how smart he is that he was able to make these switches really without any issues. I 100% agree. I think center might actually end up being his best position and he doesn't have any in-game reps there,

but he did practice there. I know he was their backup center. During spring practices, he was working out at center. I'm encouraged by the last, over the last two years, he only had one holding penalty, which obviously,

there's more to it than just arm length with that. Well, you can't get to anybody. That's the problem. He actually can't grab on to anybody. It speaks to his athleticism, though, like that he can keep his feet on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, but it's a good point.

When you watch them run the football, a lot of times they're running it behind him, and they're having success. And, you know, it's, he's kind of the opposite of McCormick, where with Beebe, you're just kind of trusting the tape and saying, okay, it was great that he tested as well as you did, but I'm just going to trust the tape

and say it, like, this is a good play. that whether it's pass protection or run blocking, he executes, he gets a job done. And I don't know, Kansas State just, Cody Whitehair, and I mean, they seem to have these guys. I was going to bring up Cody Whitehares name. Short-armed guy, left tackle in college,

came in, had a couple really good seasons. Yeah, they've just done a decent job of pumping those guys out. Yeah, yeah, it's just, the testing gave me, it was basically like me, just going like, all right, you got no excuses. You like him, screw it. Just give him this grade,

because this is what you think of them. That's what it was. It was like, I almost just needed to see that. And yeah, like Dan's saying, you got to trust the tape with him because he gets it done. And it's always there week and week out. All right. I'm very excited about this next one because you guys are further apart on this guy than pretty much anyone else that we're going to talk about in this process.

The edge rusher that you had, Dane, was Darius Robinson from Missouri. You have him at 35 on your big board. Nate has him at 62 on his big board. So let's dig into this. Dane, I'm going to let you make your case first. why 35th overall on your big board for Darius Robinson, who has some tweener concerns, a lot to dig through with him and his profile? Yeah, and I think it starts with, you know, watching, because he was supposed to be in last year's draft. And then at the last minute, he decided to take advantage of the COVID year and come back to Missouri for his fifth season.

And if he comes out last year, he's probably a midday three pick because he was playing mostly defensive tackle. he comes back to Missouri for this fifth year, this past year, and they work him more as an edge rusher. And, I mean, he's 6.5, 285. He looks more like an interior player. But working him at defensive end, a lot of tackles could not handle the power and some of the quickness that he had. Now, his 40 doesn't look great. He ran a 4-9. And so you don't want him running 40 yards, but in a short area with that power, with those heavy hands. And watching him mid-season, it was like, okay, this is a different player. This is, I don't know if it's just the shift to edge rusher, but whatever it is, this is a different player. He's playing much differently than the player I saw last year. And then listening to Kirby Smart talking about their matchup with Missouri, he singled out Daris Robinson.

And he's like, listen, number six is a problem. That's our number one thing we have to take care of. And he was close to leading the SEC in SACs this year. I mean, he had 14 tackles for loss. I mean, he put up the production. And then at the Senior Bowl, he really gave it to everyone he went up against. A lot of those one-on-one matchups. He was actually voted the number one player at the Senior Bowl during practices by his peers,

by the other players that were there. So you factor in that. You factor in, like, a lot of people think he's going to go in the first round. Some people think he's going to be a top 30 pick somewhere in the 20s. I didn't quite see him as a first-round player. I saw more as that early to mid-second round type of guy. but I just, I don't know. There's a little bit of, you know, he's going to be a base end at worst,

and it's like, okay, what else more than that can he be? I have question marks there, but I'm just encouraged by what he put on film this season. And The Beast, you talked about how there's a lack of speed and even footwork to capture the corner. When you were watching him at the Senior Bowl, did you see a little bit more of that? Or was it just more pronounced examples of the strengths

that you had seen on tape? It was better examples of him using his hands to answer what blockers were giving him. So he's not going to cleanly beat NFL tackles around the corner very often. That's just not his game. But the way he can use his length and his hands to really tie up blockers,

that's what I saw just standing right there in Mobile watching these one-on-ones. And he did it Tyler Geithen. He did it consistently against who he was going up against. And so I think there is more know-how there than maybe I gave him credit for on tape, and that Senior Bowl is a perfect opportunity to show that. So just the strength that he has in his body and the length, he has 34 and a half inch arms,

he has almost 11 inch hands. He's just a big, powerful guy. And the more he learned, the jump he took from his 2020 tape to the 2023 tape, and then the jumps he made throughout the season. And then during the pre-draft process, just gives me optimism that he'll continue to take coaching and apply it and get better. even if I do have questions about ultimately what his ceiling is of the pro. Rave reviews about his leadership, which is not surprised at the University of Missouri.

We just do nothing but pump out quality people. So I'm not surprised to hear that at all. Nate, you are not there on Darius Robinson. You have 62 on your big board. What are you not seeing with Robinson that maybe some other people are? Yeah, I just don't know if he can make a living on the edge and as a three-down guy. I think he's a move-around guy. There's a role for him in the NFL.

it's just that I think his landing spot will determine a lot and that that limits how high I can kind of put him on my board. Kind of like his best path forward is a Charles Aenehu kind of guy where it's okay, does a little outside sub packages, moves inside. If you're in a three four type defense, I know no one's in the three four normally, but you're a four eye, you know, kind of a defensive end that's technically in between like a defensive tackle better is a two gap type. So I just think the testing numbers show this and even what I saw when I was watching him is that lack of Twitch, he is strength and he has the length and he has strong hands. It's just like, okay, what's next?

He had the production, but I thought some of those were cheapy sacks or late sacks later as he kind of worked after and not those ones are insta wins, but that's the thing. He's not getting drafted to win that way. So that's why I'm not like dinging him too much. I just, I don't know where to slot kind of a late bloomer,

a guy that doesn't flash the high, high, pass rushing up. side, but I do think he'll contribute and kind of a tweener. And so I just don't know. I think there's a role for him, but I think it's more he's a super role player than a guy that I'm going to invest super highly in. So that's where I ended up more of like a late second, early third type of grade for me. So just a little bit, maybe about a half tier below what Dane was saying. And I just don't know what his upside is. I think there's some alarm bells for me with the testing with the late bloomer NIST that just kind of kept me from getting there. That range of the draft, let's say, 25 to 45. There is a, but there's a graveyard of tweeners over the last 10 years. If you look at guys drafted in that range, people that come to mind, L.J. Collier, Taco Charlton, Breeland Speaks. And obviously there's difference.

Collier was six, two and a half. You're talking about Robinson as extreme length. There are nuances between that are important to consider, but we've seen a lot of tweeners taking it in the back half of the first round early in the second round that have not worked out for those teams. And I think I'm just a little bit scarred by some of those experiences as I think about players of that specific profile. Yeah. If you draft Darius Robinson in the first round, there's a good chance that he doesn't live up to being, you know, he'll be stamped, a first round pick the rest of his life. There's a decent chance he doesn't live up to that.

If he goes somewhere on day two, which I think is more of should be his landing spot, then it's you, I know it's semantics. We're talking about, okay, if he goes 36 and as opposed to 30, we're talking about six picks. but it just it feels like okay if he's a day two pick it does feel more along the lines of what should be expected of him at the next level because i have the same concerns about upside exactly what he is i have i think a little more hope for what he is right now like his floor i think he's a really solid base end and i that picking him in the thirties that would be expensive to draft just a base end but i do think like as i said i'm a little more optimistic about the jump that he took over the office and i think that's season in the jump I saw during the pre-draft from the season to the pre-draft process to think that maybe there's just still a little bit more there that he's

a base end at worst and then maybe could be a little bit more and moving inside the defensive tackle on sub-packages you know he's going to be moved around that defensive line no matter where he goes Nate your guy at edge was chop Robinson from Penn State that you had a hard

time with you guys both had him at 26 on your respective big boards but Nate, you had a little bit, maybe a harder time going through and figuring out exactly what you think he is. What were some of the complications as you were studying Chop Robinson from Penn State? You see the Twitch, you see this explosiveness. Where's the finishing? Where is the actual, like, and I know we look at pressures and we look at all those types of things,

and you want to look at all the stuff leading to the sack, and sacks can be noisy. But you got to get close. You got to, you know, you got to actually be in a threatening position to hit the quarterback. And that's what I see. I love his, he has some good hands already. He tested like how he plays. You see the Twitch, you see the explosiveness. But there's so many times he wins and then loops all the way around the quarterback.

Quarterback steps up and just moves away. You're not truly affecting the quarterback. You're pressuring them, making him move up, but you're not making him run and escape the pocket. So I saw a lot of that. Him, they dropped him into coverage a whole bunch of times at Penn State too, which was like, okay, I like that. You can do that, but I don't think that's his best path going forward. I also think that he's not, he's neutral at best against the run. I would even say he can be explosive if he knives inside and creates explosive play.

But I've seen tight ends, watch the West Virginia game, inline tight end, just pinning them, blocking them. And that's West Virginia. Now go against NFL tight ends. There's not a ton of them, but a lot of them are going to be better than that West Virginia tight end. He is a guy I'm keeping an eye on for next year. And they're going to be bigger than him probably, right? I mean, he said 2.45, not long. Yep, not the overwhelming length.

So get there's pass rushing juice. There's upside here. He does create some. pressures and he does have just some good hands to win right away. But it's just there hasn't, there's that last kind of 50% of the play I don't see enough of to like where I'm like, oh, take this guy top 15. He's your ace pass pressure. He has that upside. But it's just there's a lot of scariness where I see more as a DPR type, like a Yonika Gakwa type, maybe that type of tier player too. Yonikako is the third round pick. Third router. Yeah. Without looking at up, Nate,

and he started 10 games this year. How many tackles do you think he had? I almost a clue of this. So I want to say he had like 17. 15. 15, dang it. That's indicative of him against the run. You know, I mean, he's making plays in the backfield, but a lot of times, and that's the, he is definitely a projection.

I mean, I was getting texts from scouts who, because, so after the draft, or after the season's over, teams have draft meetings. and how a lot of teams do it, they'll have the area scout present a player to the room, and then they watch the film, and they talk about it, vote on, and all that stuff.

And they watch, for this team, they're watching Chop Robinson. I had the one scout who's not, that's, Chop Robinson wasn't his area. He's watching them, and it must have been a good cut up

because he's like, why is this guy not a top 10 pick? They showed all four sacks and like the, all the pressures that he had. Yeah. Yeah, watched him against Iowa

in the first quarter against Michigan, Because if you watch those, you watch those and you're like, okay, yeah, he's one of the best players in this draft. But the full body of work leaves you a little bit underwhelmed. So, but again, to his, if I'm going to sell Chop Robinson, he has something that some of these other pass rushers don't. And that's a, that quick first step. That is a devastating thing for an edge rusher. And it's a distinguishing trait that maybe some of these other edge rushers don't have. So if I'm going to sell him, it's all about that first step.

And for a team, that might be enough to draft him even in the top 20. It wouldn't be too surprising. Some notable notes and numbers from the B-Stain about Chop Robinson, I think, illustrate a lot of this. 153, 10-yard split, which is like 97th percentile for edge players, just absolutely ridiculous. But you mentioned 254. At 254. And you mentioned this, Nate. Pass-rush win rate was 10th in the country for Chop Robinson, which not necessarily surprising.

You have that quick first step. He's got some decent moves off the line of scrimmage, but only had four sacks. and then, Dan, the other thing you threw out, only 30 snaps a game. So there's just so many different competing factors when you're trying to figure out what he is, what his ceiling is, and I completely understand these guys that

explosive off the line of scrimmage, but if you can't convert speed to power or you have no power in your game, what do you end up being? And it seems like that's going to be the huge, huge question for him. There's no doubt. And so he was,

he's an easy player to like, hard player to love, and that's why I couldn't give him a firm, first round grade. I had 20 firm first round grades. He was just outside of that as more of that late one, early two type of grade. But when you have that first step that he does and you're a pass rusher, you're going to go. It's just a matter of, okay, what team feels?

Is it going to be the Cardinals at 27 or 28? Which team is it going to be in the 20s? That feels like the most likely landing spot for him. You are a Philadelphia Eagle, Chop Robinson. That's how it feels. Let's get to the defensive tackles here because what I asked you for names on this one, Dan, you pretty much just said all of them. All of the guys on day two are worth discussing here.

This group specifically at defensive tackle, I think, has the biggest gaps for both of you of any position group. Pretty much every single one of these guys that's a second, third, fourth round pick, you guys are very far apart on. So the first guy here is Devandre Sweat from Texas. Dan, you have him outside of your top 100 now, but that is after he was arrested for DWI earlier this month. So on a football level, you probably have him more as a borderline second, third round

pick. But even that is a gap between where Nate has him. He has him at 42 on his big board at Yahoo with Tevonneuray Sweat. So let's just talk about the football stuff first, Dane. What about DeVondre Sweat's game kind of gives you pause about how high you wanted to move him and what he can be in the NFL? Well, there is the off-field stuff. That is what it is.

you know, they're just the fact that you're getting a DWI three weeks for the draft is the most audible ring, just red flag. It just, it's, it is tough to overcome that. And especially for a guy that has a little bit of a background with this stuff. I mean, he was open with teams about his partying as an underclassman. And but he, it's all behind him. And he, you know, talking to scouts, they said he did a, a worthwhile job convincing them that he turned over a new leaf as a senior and it showed in his play

because his senior year looked totally different than what he did in 2022. He looked like a dominant player this past season and it's like, okay, he has turned, you know, turned the page. He's a more mature player, but then this happens and the DWI happens and it's like, okay, what do we believe with this guy? The other thing that's more, more football related, but still a question question mark is the weight. He, for the national championship game or the playoff game against Washington, the college football playoffs, the semi-final, he was pushing 390. And so this is a guy that, like, you just have to worry about, he got down to 366 for the

Combine. He did not weigh in at the Senior Bowl, which was a red flag then, red flag now. He got down to 366 for the Combine, who's 367, a couple weeks later for the Pro Day, but you're going to have to always worry about the weight with him. and can he stay conditioned? Can he stay focused? Can he stay locked in? And so a lot of these questions are, you know, things that have necessarily, you know, can

he defeat a double team? I mean, it's more of just the off-field stuff and staying focused. But on the field, there's, man, there's a lot to like. I mean, he is, for a guy that's 366, he doesn't look overweight. Like, he carries it well because he just has the bone structure and the body type. you know one scout compared it to donkey Kong just beating the snod out of Mario just like it's what it looks like going up against some of these big 12 offensive linemen he is a big dude who has a lot of ability and we saw more of it this season in 2023 than we ever did with any of his underclassman tape which again is another you know we talked about with darius robinson why did it take your fifth year for you to really break out you know why is it okay you turned it on all of a sudden um So there's a lot of question marks, but man, he has ability that a lot of guys don't. It feels like your ranking of Devandre Sweat is mostly the flashes on the field that you see.

It's those high-end moments where maybe not considering some of the off-field stuff quite as much when you're looking at where he slots in. That's it. It's not just a big oversized nose tackle that just leans on guys and it's like, oh, he's plugging. He's got hand usage. He has some pass rush ability. Like, it's not, he could play all three towns. you maybe not want him to, but it's not like he's a total outlier out there where you're like, oh, he's not getting any juice. You get him singled up with a center. He's hands swiping them back, you know, just truly knocking him a gap over. So I like his film better than Jordan Davis, who was drafted high just a couple years ago, same type of player as far as body type and all the weight issues and everything. And like Dane says, he carries it very well. But all this stuff like Dane saying, I of course put in my big board before the DUI hit. So that was not very fun. to see we got the note in at least.

But it's no, he's, the senior push is always an alarm bell, especially if it's not because, oh, he hasn't figured out how to play when it's practice habits, it's, it's, you know, off field stuff and everything. That's where it's concerning. It's all of a sudden he goes, oh, shoot, the drafts next year. All right, I got to turn it on. But then also you're going to get paid in the NFL. The NFL is harder than college because it's your job.

It's every day you have to show up week 14, week 15, week 16. You could lose seven games in a row. Guess what you're getting paid. You better play. your resume now. And so that's the fact that he's heavier than his listed weight as this season went along, that's like impossible. The guys lose, guys lose so much weight during the season. So that's a, that's huge, huge red flags. But the thing is you watch him on the field and you're like, oh my God, this guy can be a true, true, almost three down nose tackle, which are hard to find.

And every team is looking for a plugger if they want to play all this two high defenses. And there's not a lot of type, these types of guys in this draft. They're mostly three techs, mostly gap shooting type. So he's a different flavor. I love his film, but then it's just all the off-field concerns. It's like, I might have him as a top 50 guy, but it's one of those where I'm with Dane

where it's like, I'm not touching him until day three because of that stuff. Another guy that you guys are pretty far apart on, but we're flipping it here. Dane has him at 51 on his big board. Nate, you didn't even have him in your top 100, was Rook, let me do this, Oro-O-O-O-O-Ro.

Oro-Horo-Horo. Rook-O-Roh-Soo. It's a great name from Clemson. It's a dog with peanut butter in his mouth. Dan, you had him at 51, borderline second or third round pick. Nate, you did not have him on your big board at all. Nate, I'm going to let you go first year. What about Orohoro kind of scared you off in the process? I don't know what he is. I just didn't see a lot of the juice I was expecting and I didn't see the plugger, like where I'm like seeing where he's holding

up and doing it. He was a tweener as far as play style. And that, it just, I couldn't get all the way there with him. I kept him off the board completely. I look him as an early fourth rounder. He, like, He's probably like 105, you know, like if we're going that deep, I don't go. Still, though, a very big gap between 105 and 51 where Dane has him. I just couldn't get all the way there with him where I can figure out his role. I wanted to just see more. I know he has talent and I know his body type, again, is just kind of that 290, you know, he's a mid-290 type of guy.

Again, I just, if you're going to be that type, I want you to see more actual explosive play with it, explosive production with it, even if he had some. but just I was expecting a little bit more overwhelmingness. I was a little harsh on him because I think maybe I was just underwhelmed overall when I watched him. Like where I was just like, I think he's fine. I think he is a pretty good athlete as well. Just couldn't get there with his play style. His testing numbers, Dan, were very explosive, even if that does not show up on tape.

Well, and that's, as I just got done saying, trust the tape, this is one of those cases where I'm kind of trusting the upside and the talent that he has. because, yeah, 6-4-295 and 34-inch arms, and Rook's got a 739-3-9-3-cone. I mean, he was in the 4-8s in the 40-yard dash. He moves differently than most guys the size. And I still think he's just learning. Like, he's still trying to figure things out. And, you know, that's not ideal for a fifth-year player. But he was really late to football.

I mean, he didn't start playing until high school. You know, he's a guy that born, raised in Nigeria, came over. when he was young and really just started playing. He was a wide receiver for a while. Then he really started learning defensive line. So there's a lot that he's still figuring out. But I was encouraged by him against the run. I really thought when you factor in that lateral quickness that he has,

that length, the power of the point of attack, he can control gaps, I thought. The pass rush production wasn't there. But I still think that he has it in him to get better. And so 51 is lofty. But at the same time, it's more of an upside pick. Thinking about how many guys look like him and move like him, there's just not many of them. And so I think that with more seasoning, more coaching, he can get there.

And once you get into the 50s, that's where I'd be willing to maybe roll the dice on a guy like this. If my roster was set up where I don't need a guy to come in, make a quick impact, I can be a little patient with him. If I'm set up that way, I would be fine rolling the dice on Rook there somewhere in that, yeah, late second round range. Because there are a lot of naughty evaluations at this position. Mike Hall Jr. was another guy that you guys are both, you know, kind of split on. Nate has him at 39. Dan, you have him at 60.

Another guy where he had a second half in 2023, but according to you, Dan, second best pass rush win rate, another phrase I can never say, in the country at defensive tackle next to Iron Murphy. So similar to chop Robin. If you're with the snaps, just enough. Yeah, he's up there. And that's the big problem with him is he missed a lot of time. And he was a part-time player. And so it's, if he is drafted, I got the staff from Fran Duffy.

I can't remember it exactly. If he's drafted in top 50, he would be the, no, we've never seen a defense to tackle this few number of snaps drafted in the top 50 before, or at least over the last 10 years. So it's a guy that just doesn't have that body of work, but he's young. He's still just 20. It won't turn 21 until June. You know, he's, the flashes are awesome. I mean, there are reason to be excited about him. Can he stay healthy and can he stay on the field and not hurt you against the run? Some of the questions made me, you know, think of a more of as a late second than an early second. But I get it. If you graded the flashes and you think about

what he could be, I totally understand why. he could potentially go somewhere in that early to mid-second. It sounds like you did that, mate. You graded the flashes and you're worried about what he can be, Michael. Oh, man, I did graded flash. I'm a sucker for this type of player. I just, he, it's explosive plays at defensive tackle. And I think that, like what Dane said, if he was a fifth-year player on this rotation,

wouldn't be as optimistic as I am, but he's so young. And I understand when you're at a Blue Blood program, like Ohio State, being on limited snaps makes me argue more for you at this young age. oh, okay, he's going to grow to that because he's competing with other kind of blue chippers. I just, man, he's explosive. I've seen him go against Joe Alt in a four-eye technique. So showing that he can play more 3-4DN, too, which I think helps as well, as long as being what I, his best upside is like Grady Jarrett. You know, like 3-Tech, boom, fire up the field, win right away.

But it's good to see it. He's going against Joe Walt and beating him in the run game and just throwing him by and creating a play against a counter run. So that's where it's flashes. Again, like Dane just said, it's those 20, he only plays. 20, 25, 30 plays a game, and you're really great enough the four, five, six flash plays and going like, okay, I'm projecting that. The fact he tested really well, maybe just go, okay, I bumped him another probably 10 spots, I think.

I think he went from 49, my first big board to 39, and really that was the testing going, like, yep, I'm good with this. So just grade into that. And this is a difference between the discussion about Michael Hall. Does he go by Mike? So Mike Hall, Mike Hall, Jr. And, okay, and Ro, Roro, Ro, is that they age. if he if the other one was a redshirt sophomore coming out with that

testing and the flashes he had I'd be a lot more optimistic about him and that's why I kept him a little lower it's like ah at that age at that school and that's what you're just doing so that's just kind of differing of the arguments with you with these two guys as we get to linebacker I don't even think it's worth digging into the individual guys because you guys both have like four players that you wanted to talk about and they're all stacked in a very similar range you pretty much have all of these guys from like 80 to 100 on your board. We're talking about Tommy Eichenberg. He's off your top 100,

or Dane, but Nate, you haven't met 50 at 89. Peyton Wilson, 98 for you, Nate, 88 for you, Dane. Trevin Wallace from Kentucky, 86 for Dane off Nate's big board, but I'm assuming in that general range. I'm wondering, Dan, as you're looking at linebackers these days, I'm trying to listen to you throwing out 20 guys that you wanted to talk about here. Do you feel like linebacker has become one of the hardest positions, if not the hardest positions? If not the hardest position to evaluate in this process just because of what's translatable and what's not. Yeah, and I think that's a perfect example of why Eichenberg fell off my top 100 is because he didn't have a ton of coverage production and he wasn't able to play at the senior bowl

because he was banged up and not having, not showing what you can do in coverage just gives me pause because are you a true three-down player? I'm not. sold on that with Ikenberg. I love Ikenberg as a as an early down player. The heart that he plays with, I mean, I felt for him at the combine when he was being asked about why he came back and he said, I came back to meet Michigan. And they're like, well, that didn't happen. He's like, I know. And it was just awkward silence. Thanks for letting me know. I was, yeah, it was painful because he cares about this stuff so much. And it's just, he's an easy guy to root for. It's just the lack of playmaking ability and coverage gives me a little bit of pause. And that's why I'm not

high on Jeremiah Trotter, who a lot of people, you don't think it's going to be a, not a lot of people, but some people think it's going to be a day two pick. But it's also why I like Trevin Wallace at Kentucky, because he is a big time athlete, you know, 6-1, 237 pounds, ran a 451, and you see it on the film. I mean, he moves differently than most linebackers move. Does he have the best instincts? Does he have the best anticipation? No. That's where Eichenberg is a little more advanced. But also with Trevor Wallace, he's very, very young. He just turned 21 years old.

He's still a work in progress, but he has the athleticism. And that gives me hope and the upside is there that he can be maybe a three-down player or someone that you can at least trot out there and feel okay about. So these linebackers are tough. And Peyton Wilson's a different conversation because of the injury stuff. And even past that, he's... He's more of a straight-line-ish kind of guy. Yeah.

Right. And so I don't know. He's three-coner was awesome. But on film, he looks more like a straight-line guy than a true, you know, change-a-direction guy. But, yeah, all these linebackers in this range, I mean, to me, Junior Colson from Michigan is a top linebacker, then Edger and Cooper. And then it becomes, there's a gap. And then it's like, okay, I'm open for arguments about who that next linebacker off the board. should be. I feel like we're learning

with linebackers, though. I think that slowly we're learning about this, because when I think of linebackers from Kentucky and guys that were fantastic athletes and then you just drop them in, you're not sure what they are, so what Jamie Davis was. And I just don't think guys like that are going to go in the first round, or at least shouldn't be going

in the first round as often as they were, let's say, over the last decade. Oh, it's going to be a bunch of day two picks from now on. That feels like a liebacker. Your's bet not. Unless you're a true playmaker, Yeah, I mean, rushing the passer and making plays in coverage, and if you're not that true playmaker,

I mean, you don't have to be Michael Parsons, but if you're not a proven playmaker in different facets of playing defense at that second level, it's hard to justify taking a linebacker in the first round. Even a guy like Junior Colson, who's awesome, has good tape, he's a young player, he's going to be a starter for a long time, it'd be hard to justify taking him as early as the first round. And that's why with a lot of these guys,

after those first two with Edron Cooper and Colson, it becomes a little bit of a grabback. Exactly what are you looking for? What type of qualities do you care about in your linebackers? And that answer to that is going to be different from team to team. And so, yeah, it's an interesting position this year. Well, and this is what it is. It's Junior Colson, I think, Dan and I are in agreement.

It's that he's both our linebacker won. It's just like he feels almost safe to me where it's like he's young, he's smart. He's enough of an athlete, enough of a good tackle. I'm good with him as my linebacker one. Another guy that kind of ended up being the same argument for me was Cedric Gray from North Carolina, who's now my linebacker three, which I was not looking him that way and then start a stack and I'm like, well, he's kind of fast, he kind of hits pretty well, he kind of sees the game well, he's kind of good in coverage.

All right, I'll take a chance on you in round three. Because I'm watching linebackers across the league. You kind of, you have to do it all now. You just can't be a two-down player like Dane was saying. I get that with the Eichenberg stuff. But with Gray, I really warmed him because he does enough well

that, okay, maybe you are a three-down starting linebacker, which I think is one of the harder positions to find right now. So he's a guy who would take a chance on it was Gray. Let's get to the cornerbacks. You guys both have the same two names that you wanted to talk about. Dane, let's start with Ennis Rakeshraff from Mizzou. You have him at 49 on your big board.

Nate has him at 45 on his big board. what was complicated about trying to evaluate Ennis Rake Straw as you were watching his tape? I get why people like him because man, he's a dog. And that's what you want from your corners, right? You want guys that match up physically and have a little bit of edge

to the way they play, their play style. And he brings that. He has that. But he's not a big guy. He's 5-11.5, 183 pounds. And he's not fast. I mean, he ran a 451 at the Combine, and then Rake Straw at his pro day, 456. Actually went in the wrong direction.

And you see that lack of long speed show up from time to time. Didn't have a ton of ball production this past year. He was also banged up. He was hurt. So I like the play style. I just don't love the player. I like the player, just don't love the player. And that's why I was surprised to see Rake Straw pop up in first round box.

I just couldn't get there with him. I think he's a solid day two player, probably a second round player. But because of those issues, the missing time due to injury, being a smaller player, not having great straight line speed, not having a ton of ball production, with those only one career interception in four years at Missouri. So all those things combined and just gives me a little bit of pause with him. I don't like the tone that you're using, talking about a 511, 185-pound guy without long speed from Missouri. personally. That's all I'm saying.

As somebody who also fits that profile, Nate, the guy you brought up that you compared him to on your big board, which I think is an interesting name and an interesting discussion was Carlton Davis, right? And so if you look at Carlton Davis, similar concerns about the long speed. They ran almost the exact same 40. Play style here.

Yeah, and so yeah, but I think that's why it's worth talking about to me because Carlton Davis is bigger. He's taller and also has more length and more size. So if you're going to have that place, style where you're physical, you have that kind of dog mentality to you. Can you get away with that if you're not built like Carlton Davis? And that seems like kind of the central question for a guy

like Rake Straws you're projecting him to the next level. I'm not the first person to point this out, but there's a lot of similarities between tackle play and corner play and receivers and pass rushers, you know, its ability to recover. Carlton Davis has long arms. He can recover. He has enough with his size to recover when he gets Kyle position a lot because he's so abused. aggressive. And so like that, that's why Rick Straught has fallen like a stone for me. I had him around 33 and they just keeps dropping each. The testing is just that it's too concerning. You should be able to wake up and run. If you're going to be this size, this, at that, if he's 2002 pounds, okay, we're talking way different here. But he's not. This is what he plays at.

And these guys have issues in the NFL where everybody's bigger, faster, stronger, and just as good a route runner. Yeah, I love his competitiveness. I love his tenaciousness. It reminds me, me a little bit of the discussion. This guy was a little bit smarter than more aggressive. The guy, Clark Phillips, from Utah last year, Dane. Utah. He went to Atlanta, day two guy.

Fourth round pick, yeah. Fourth round pick. He was a fourth round pick, yeah. Love his game. Love his feciness. I love his smarts. Got to be real. He has to be realistic about this. And he also had insane ball production in college, didn't he? Yes, he did. Yes, he did. So that's why I'm trying to be realistic with him where it's like, shoot, if I had updates again,

he might drop another 10 spots because I'm just trying to be realistic, even if I like his play style a lot. I love corner set play like this, but NFL is just a different beast. And some of the ball, like why he doesn't come up in production, he has tiny hands.

So he probably doesn't have strong hands to come away with the ball. So you can pop them away but not come down with them. So again, another alarm bell goes off. Also some injury concerns with Brakesrae, right? Torn ACL, missed some time with the groin this year. So you combine that with the size

and it seems like there are some real alarm bells that are ringing here. he did in the 40 wasn't great but also no vertical and no three cone which is also you know not having those numbers it is what it is but you just wish you had that to fall back on as a as a reason to really believe in him and unfortunately we don't have that and same sort of concerns it feels like for kamari waster from georgia who's the other guy you wanted to mention here dane 4-6 in the 40 at his pro day and i went back today and was just looking historically at corners who are running in the mid four sixes over the last 20 years there are not a lot of success stories here. The two names you could throw out that ran a 4-6-4 or worse at the Combine over the last 20 years that had some sustained relevance in the NFL.

Levi Wallace and Josh Norman are the only two guys that I could come up with. So even if you like Camarro Laster... Levi Wallace wasn't... He wasn't drafted, right? Yeah, but he might have even been drafted. He played... He's had a decent career.

He's been a starter for half a dozen years, but he wasn't even drafted. So, and I don't think Josh Norman was drafted either, was he? I don't think he was. I thought he was. Round five maybe? Yeah. Yeah, fifth round.

Yeah, five, six. Yeah, fifth round. Yes. That's, we can get that out. But, yes. So I think that's a real concern, but it seems like that's another thing where you can like the play style, you can like, you know, the presence and what he was for that Georgia defense.

But some of those actual nuts and bolts elements of who he is are definitely concerning. And it's weird because he had the, you're talking. about the best three cone in this draft class, 662 for Lasseter, and then he goes out and the 40 time being 464. And I mean, there was a lot of, the best 40 time I heard, and I checked with a lot of teams, the best 40 that I got from a team was 459, but most teams had it in that low to mid four sixes. So, and he's not a big guy. It's not like we're talking about a six two, two, two hundred and five pound corner where he is 100 mid-180s under six foot. And so is he a, can you play outside corner in the NFL at that size and that speed?

Or are we talking about a nickel only? And if he's a nickel only, then all of a sudden that changes how we view him as a prospect, which makes it tougher. So I struggle with Kwame Laster because I like the tape. I think if you just watch a tape and know nothing about his athletic profile, I think you give him a solid second round grade. But then you watch the, or you have the testing information and, you know, you compare it. It's like, okay, I would still, for me, I'm still taking him somewhere in round two, but I will understand if he ends up falling to round three because of some of these limitations. Nate, it feels like you have a lot of similar concerns, even if you're marginally higher on him.

I love, God, you love his tape. He's so smart and he's tough, and it's just so much. Coach is probably love this guy. And in my head, I'm like, well, just run cover two with him and just hide him and let him be smart. But yeah, how many teams do that these days? None. So it's like, you know, just a couple on a couple plays. So like Dane's saying, all right, it's just like why I talk about receivers.

Outside, inside, versatility, slot only. If you're slot only, you better be a dynamo with tape that has to take him in, really, in the second round. Really, that drops you just naturally to the third. And I just, I really like this player. It's just that, again, it's the head versus heart thing that you have to be realistic about it. But he's smart. I think he could survive in the slot just based on defense's run right now. and because he can use an intelligence

and hitting ability, he's a good tackler, but it's just, again, it's what's his upside? Oh, if you're getting manned coverage and he has to go against an NFL receiver and he has to live in that on third down, you know, he takes away as much as he adds.

And so how do you value that? And that's, that's tough. These two are very tough. Love their play styles. I really like the players. They're both so smart, but you have to be realistic about being an NFL athlete.

Last position we wanted to hit it here was safety. You guys both had similar names that you want to talk about. Dan Cole Bishop from Utah and Kalyn Bullock for USC both pop up to you here. What about those guys was difficult for you as you were studying them? With Bishop, I really liked him. There's a lot to his game against the pass and the run that you like.

Really, it just came down, and he tested outstanding. 6-2-206, ran in the mid-4s, 39-inch vert. So there's a lot about, like the tape, like what he did testing-wise. The hang up with me with Cole Bishop is as rangy as he is and I think as smart as he is, he didn't make a ton of plays on the football. He did have a pair of interceptions, but he only had five passes defended the entire year. There were times where I was like, okay, go make a play, go make a play. And a lot of times he just, he wasn't quite there. And so at the safety position, that's something that I care a lot about is can you go make a play when I need it?

And I still, I really like Cole Bishop. He's my fourth safety. I got early, late second, early third round grade on him. But the absence of the big plays is something that, you know, kind of bothered me when I was ranking these safeties and putting them together. And I think the way I worded it in my report is I want to see him, I want to see more impact plays and I want to see him set more traps for the quarterback. If you want a guy that can just, you know, see it and go, he'll do it.

but in terms of setting traps and anticipating and making those impact plays, I just didn't see enough of it. Maybe I'm beating him up too much, but that was Cole Bishop. And then with Kaelin Bullock, I really struggle with him because I love the range. He has, it reminds me a lot of Trevin Morgue coming out of TCU, except Bullock is under 190. He's 6'2, so he's lanky. There are times on tape where his tackling was just horrendous.

And I, if you're the last line, a defense as a safety, I have to be able to trust you that you're going to be able to get the man on the ground as a tackler. And I struggle with that with him. So yeah, he has great range where, you know, it doesn't matter. Split safety, center field. If you, you know, he can make plays at the sideline. But if I can't trust you to be a consistent tackler, whether you're screaming down the alley and making plays on a screen pass or, you know, you're making a play at the side. If I can't trust you to get the man on the ground, that that's going to be a problem. And I think that's, that's kind of my hang up with Bullock exactly where to rank him among these safeties this year.

Pardon me here, but you're a little more bullish on Bullock, Nate, with your ranking of him. You admit, 61 compared to where Dane has him off his top 100. Why are you maybe not a little bit, why are you not as concerned about some of those downside aspects? I'm banking a little on a post-Alex Grinch bump, the defense coordinator from USC. So I'm banking a little that some of his out of whackness is because he had no idea where to go. because they just do stuff there just to do stuff. So that's what a little bit where I'm a little more optimistic, but I agree with Dan.

He's a little out of control, kind of can come flying. And that's Notre Dame. He makes a great play. And then two plays later, it's like, okay, what are you doing? You're not even near the ball. But I think I just, he does stuff. Like, I think that's what I like. That's the, it's actually a discussion with Bishop, too.

It's the opposite of that. Where at least he's around the ball. He's at least, he shows enough that I'm betting that he gets out of that defense. where he's running every which way and can just play in a defense that just lets him be controlled and focus his energy, that that's why I'm a little more bullish on him than Danis. And with Bishop, really him and Pete Wilson, the linebacker, kind of the same way for NC State. You get to see him run a lot, which is great, but that's because they're running to the ball and they're a little bit late to run to the ball. Like you don't get to see him like take on a tackler or I'm sorry, take on a blocker and shed him and make the tackle or anything.

it's a lot of running down the ball, running the ball carry down 10 yards down the field. It's like, oh, can you make a TFL as opposed to a six yards down the field? And it's great. You're a great athlete. I'm with Dane. I struggled with Bishop. I liked him. But then they used them in a particular way, a lot of stuff near the line scrimmage.

He did a lot of stuff where he was manned with a tight end already. He's got really short arms. And I think that came up a lot when he did have to shed a blocker. He's 6-2 with sub-30-inch arms, which is, yeah, I don't know what, that's a new one for me. So it's, but that is like where I see some limitations with him, but I do like the athlete. And I think some special team coaches would probably like him too because of what all the stuff they can bring there. So the last guy I bring up is camera kitchens, which it's like the opposite. Love his intelligence, love his aggressiveness to the ball, not a good athlete.

And he has really no ability to recover, which showed up on film. He's a boom-bust safety. Again, a guy, I think that will get some help in the NFL where he can kind of channel his energy a little bit and just say, we're playing quarters. This is your area. Okay, just stay to this area. Okay, don't go all the way. You're not Ed Reed.

Don't go 20 yards over there. So I like kitchens. I do it, but he's a boom-bust safety, and he's not a great athlete. So I kind of kept him a little lower. Just stay in your area. It's a good lesson for all of us. Stay in your area.

All right, guys. That's all we got. Hit about 20 guys, at least, on this show. So a lot of the more difficult conversations and evaluations that we're going to have and people are going to have in this process, hopefully a little bit more context, a little bit more information on a lot of those guys.

That is all we've got for today. I will be back with Deonti on Friday. We're doing some defensive players. Defense of players mailbag. So answer your guys' questions on some defensive prospect queries that you have, excited about doing that. We will be back next week, the three of us. Just a quick reminder, please go check out the Beast on the athletic if you have not.

If you don't have an athletics subscription, this is the time to get one because That's all you need to read the best draft guide on the market. Also one more piece of housekeeping. We will be live the first two nights of the draft coming to you from Detroit. Me, Dane, Nate, special guests, bells and whistles, a lot of fun stuff. Please come hang out with us during the draft. It's going to be a phenomenal draft. There's so much intrigue in the top 10 this year in the first round in general.

So many big name guys. And we will be around to respond to every single pick for the first two nights of the draft. Very excited about it and very excited for all of you guys to join us. For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you very soon. This was The Athletic Football Show.