The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The Jets lose by winning, Mahomes vs. Brees, Wild Card threat index, debating the Bills and Packers, the Bears find a groove & more in our week 15 reaction

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

It was a weekend of NFL football that will impact the league this season and possibly for seasons to come. How big of a deal is it that the Jets won a game? What should we make of the Chiefs' victory over the Saints? The Athletic's Robert Mays and Nate Tice dive into the week 15 headlines, their Wild Card Threat Index, Jalen Hurts, scheming to stop the Bills and Packers, Rams woes, the Bears figuring it out offensively and much more.Get 2-for-1 access to The Athletic over at theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my buddy Nate Tyson. How are you? Doing great. You know, like, different things really trigger, like, how, like, the season feels.

And I think this week having a Thursday game and a couple Saturday games, like, not just one. Saturday game. I was like, oh, yeah, it's winter. It's Christmas is roaring. Like, it's coming down the pipeline. That was like, it's just like, yeah, it's just like a, a, uh, a, uh, an effect it has on me, like a Pavlov's dogs kind of thing. And also just like the thing, it's also maybe look up like blackout rules when,

like for TV rights when I was a kid because that's like the high school and college. That's why they can now show it on Saturdays. It's because they can't do that when the college football is in the regular season or something. That's why it was so weird because the Clemson Notre Dame game is going on. So I had people tweeting about the NFL in college at the same time. That was really strange. Also, I've been in Miami for the last month. And I have no idea how cold it is.

in the rest of America. So I'm watching the game at Lambo on Saturday. I'm like, what time of year is it? I was just sitting outside by the pool and now they're just freezing cold. I'm not very used to that. So the time aspect of this was very confusing. But we just wrapped up week 15. We have a very jam-packed show to get to.

Oh, yeah. The Jets won a football game. We will absolutely be talking about that. We're going to do a little something different today with how we're outlining the show. We'll get to that a little bit later. I just think with all the playoff implications, sometimes you have to take care of that and we're going to get off of our normal outline, but shouldn't be a huge issue.

We're going to get to some of the things that the Bears did on offense because I think it's time we finally have to start talking about that. Before we do any of that, though, let's talk about the Chiefs and the Saints. Biggest game of the weekend, in my opinion, a matchup of maybe the two best rosters in the entire NFL. And it lived up to it. It was a really entertaining game.

It was a fun game. It ended up being a close game. the final score was a little closer than I think the gameplay would lead you to believe. My takeaway from this game, and I'll listen to yours in a second, I was upset that Breeze wasn't healthy. Because when I watched that game, I saw a Saints defense that gave the Chiefs as much trouble as any defense really can. I believe the Chiefs had 13 possessions. They punted on six of them. When you're playing against the Chiefs, you're hoping to steal two possessions.

three possessions, not seven. There were seven possessions they didn't score on. They averaged 5.5 yards per play. They're averaging 6.6 on the season. They average 5.3 in the Super Bowl. So this is the type of game where the defensive performance that the Saints had should have put them in position to possibly win this game. But especially in the first half, you can just tell Drew Brees wasn't right.

He's not feeling good well. Obviously some of the just physical stuff is there, but some of the decisions he was making. a bizarre game. So that's my takeaway is that the Saints on paper at full strength are good enough to give this Chief's team a run, but the Saints, the way they looked today, just don't have that sort of firepower. Did you feel similar? What were your overall takeaways from the game? Yeah, the Chiefs did what you almost don't want to see what a defense could do to take away your offense, and they're running two man. It's because they're not scared of Breeze running the ball, and they're also saying, oh, no one's going to win. Like, you can't have a guy.

that's going to win consistently against this route. It's not just two-man, but they're running other man variations, but there was a lot of two-man. And we saw Jared Cook late in the game run a nice little in-breaker that he won on. But like it was the Saints do have that, like if there is a blueprint, I don't think there is a blueprint to stop the Chiefs, but they're able to rush four or create some like simulated looks where they're rushing four and five where they're able to get some pressure and make Mahomes hold onto the ball

and create maybe just be his own worst enemy at times. times where he is trying to create and then create his own pressure and create a sack. You know, Trey Hendrickson, who's had a great year, by the way, I like, I need to watch a little bit more of him because had another great, great game today and he was just getting after my homes over over and over and over. He's got a weird aesthetic, by the way. I think, like, you'd appreciate it. He almost looks like a long snapper.

Like, he's got the longs. He doesn't have his gloves. No gloves. He has some gloves. Yep. I noticed the no gloves today. Yeah. It's definitely a look.

It's a choice and it's a one that I absolutely respect. you can usually tell who the long snapper is on the team because they you know gloves first off but then especially when there's no sleeves on they'll have no accessories like on the madden where they didn't choose an option like for any armbands or wristbands so that's how you know exactly who the long snapper is on the team that they're wearing like a 40 number but anyways like the chiefs are they're michael meyers like they got the safety at the end of half and it's felt just like oh why you got to make it hard on yourselves again because then they come out of the half and the chiefs like this the drive coming out of the half was just beautiful

like they adjusted you can see that they adjusted at halftime because what they're they saw what the saints were giving them with the two high stuff they're create they're just running the ball if they're running a little pick routes to kelsey and they're just and then also when they had some main answers or it needed to have some main answers my homas found the crossing rounds he found walkins i think on one and this is the drive that ended by the way with an absolutely insane sprint out throw going to his left by mohomes in the back corner of the end zone. Like this whole entire drive was just like gorgeous and just epitomized what the chiefs are,

just the coaching to change. And then Mahomes just taking advantage what is presented in front of them. I thought there's so many plays today that his greatness just took over. And that's almost encouraging if you're a defense trying to play against them. The fact that they had to do so much stuff out of structure and pull somebody plays out of their ass, I think speaks to the performance defensively that the chief, that the Saints had. I keep calling the chain that I keep trying to say chains at every single time. It's after midnight on the East Coast, if you can give me a break.

The chains game was very entertaining. So I think that if you look at the structure of the Saints defense, it was similar to what the Chiefs were trying to do. A lot of man coverage underneath and a lot of two high safeties. And I thought that the most encouraging part of the Saints performance on defense wasn't even necessarily the game plan. It was the attitude. Yeah. I just loved how physical they were being. being underneath, just getting in guys' faces.

I mean, there were plays where, I mean, Malcolm Jenkins was right in Kelsey's grill, where you had Marshaun Lattimore with his hand in Tyree Kill's hip pocket. That was happening all game. And Mahomes is just having to make really impressive things happen out of structure. There was the one play, I think that you pointed it out. It was the, I think it was third and nine early in the game. Oh, yeah. And Cameron Jordan was doing everything in his power to keep Mahomes in the pocket.

And he did this all game. He did a very good job of maintaining contained. He's getting wide and wide and he just kept getting. And he did. And he eventually didn't let him escape to his right. But Mahomes somehow slips back inside, steps up and finds Watkins on third and nine. And those are the plays they had to consistently make because, like you said, they were able to get pressure with four.

They were able to disrupt things enough with how physical they were being on the outside. And at a certain point, it's Mahomes and it's little tiny wrinkles. Like the touchdown to Tyree Kill, for example. They're playing a man. down there. They send him in that little yo-yo motion. Ladamore is on him in the slot. And you can see Latimore slip after the second change of direction. And it's like that slow motion, oh shit. Yeah. It's like, there's no way I'm getting back. So and those are the tiny little edges they create. But at the same time, I think this is the game where you saw their mortality.

Because if there was a better offense on the other side of the ball, I absolutely think they could lose this game because there were so many opportunities left on the field by the Saints in the first half. That leads me to my next question, though. Is there any team in the league with the defense that can do what the Saints did today against them and an offense that can take advantage? And I don't know what the answer to that question is. I don't think there is.

I think that the Saints defense is the best option and the best chance to slow them down like this and to create those opportunities and create those missed possessions that the chiefs just don't normally have. Their offense is not in position to slam the door when the chiefs leave it open. And that's the biggest question. Is there going to be a team that can put it together on both sides of the ball? And we haven't seen it, but I do think that today is encouraging if you are trying to find a way to finally put Michael Myers down for good. If there's a team out there that possibly could, I think today is a good indication that this is a team that can be slowed down if you have the right guys on that side of the ball.

And I maybe thought that a team that was more steady Eddie like the Saints where they have the high floor on offense with their run game and Breeze being Mr. Efficient. Of course, Michael Thomas being out does matter. But, you know, that's what they have, Drew Breeze has to be hit in 70%

to make that passing game work with how they want to do because they are limited down the field. And maybe it's not the steady Eddie that can get after the chiefs. It's the dice throws. And again, I think it still is. but it's the bills. I mean, that's the team. It's those on the AFC side.

That's the teams. The ones that can just, you know, maybe hit those dice throws, hit five of them in a row and take advantage of any mistakes. Because the chiefs keep making mistakes, but no one can fully, fully take advantage of them. And yeah, that's what a team's going to need to be after a team. I mean, the Saints at one point were averaging six yards a pass and the chiefs were adding four and a half yards of pass.

I mean, if that's, and you're still not winning the game, they were down 10 at that point. And you're still not winning the game when that's happening. I mean, that's tough sledding. there were a couple just bizarre decisions by Breeze in that game. I mean, the lollipop interception on the left side line. I'm so confused about what that was. He threw the ball into triple coverage to Jared Cook at one point in the end zone.

There was another ball he threw it on the left sideline that was into a bunch of traffic. It just felt like he was not right. And I'm not sure if he's going to get there by the end of the year. This is a conversation I had with Lindsay on Thursday show. It's a shame because I would love to see this team at full strength. And I would love to have seen what they could have been if he were. healthy and playing all year and they could get rolling a little bit because the defense does have it. And maybe by the end of the season, they're still going to make the playoffs seat if they don't get the number one seed.

Maybe by the end of the season, they are complete and they can make a run. They can go and beat the Packers and Lambo, something like that. But right now, it just doesn't look like their offenses there. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about from this game? Any plays, anything that jumped out to you, anything that you did not want to leave on the table before we move on. Man, it's just unbelievable. This is like the third time now I've mentioned the Chiefs in a four-minute drill. passing the ball just because they can.

Yeah. And again, I noticed that at the end of the game. Tony was pointing that out too. He did. Essentially was like, they know they can. So why wouldn't they? They can. Like they,

and it's not just a simple naked. Like I've seen the Rams do it a bunch, but they run a naked because they're like, okay, because we're going to make sure golf can only do so much good or bad. And so, but with the chiefs do it, they're like, no,

we're going to run our RPOs. We're just going to go down the field. You know, it's run Hank. Let's just run our stuff. And, yeah, my home's just going to make it work. But yeah, it's the chiefs are they're a juggernaut.

And it's fun how they do it. It's fun to watch a team like this succeed and just having this freewheeling offense that's just aggressive and coming at you and just always attacking in a defense that matches that aggressiveness. It's a fun team. Are you a little bit worried at all about the state of their offensive line of Schwartz doesn't come back healthy? Or do you think that this is just a different sort of beast in dealing with that Saints front? It's the best front in the league. I mean, I think that with Bud Dupree hurt and with the, The difference with the Saints and the Steelers, in my opinion, is that the Saints can bring four.

The Steelers consistently bring five on purpose to create one-on-ones in the Pass Rush game. The Saints don't have to do that. They have guys that can collapse the pocket, games, everything else. So I feel like if the Chiefs front is going to be exposed, it's against this team. It's never going to be worse than it was today. We have to look at what AFC teams have a blueprint where they can rush forward. and play coverage where they're going to make Mahomes be patient or the Chiefs be patient and have to do what they had to do in the second half, creating the Mahomes having to create a little bit

more and having to run the ball. And, you know, LeBion Bell did have a nice game. But that leaves the teams like the Colts that can do that. And other, you know, those are the teams that there is not a blueprint because the Chiefs can still win even like not having, they haven't pitched like the, they haven't thrown just their best game yet. Like they are still waiting for that, you know, 92 pitch outing, complete game outing. Like they are just. still getting out in the sixth inning. And like as a pitcher, like that's what it's so scary. And they've only lost one game this year.

So it's, it's phenomenal what they are doing. So I do not want to take away from the chiefs. I can't wait to keep watching this team. But I'm curious if they are going to keep shooting themselves in the foot because that's going to happen is there's going to be a team that can only rush forward that could create a fun offense that can take advantage of it. That's going to be what happens. Do you think that the Colts blueprint, just the Colts general schematic philosophy on

defense, the fact that they're, I don't know how to describe it. Simple and passive seem like derogatory terms and I always use those and I talk about the Colts because they play so much zone. Do you feel like having a physical man coverage in your face approach is the best way to do this? Or do you think that if you play the amount of zone, even if it's varied that the Colts do, there's still a way to slow them down if you're still getting pressure with four. I think the number one key is getting pressure with four because I think if you put some of the home. That's the number one. Okay. Yep. That is number one before anything. and then you get into whether man and bringing five and yeah that becomes a whole thing but i think

bring pressure with four and some version of coverage that you know could create some turnovers where you can take advantage and score touchdowns against them just that just that that's all you have to do yeah that's all that's all as long as you can just get pressure with four that's all but that's but i think that that's a good a good thing to point out because the colts are the other team that can do that consistently mean they their past rush shows showed a lot of juice today they're healthy in that area now So I think that's a good thing to kind of remember as we're thinking about and trying to compile these teams that we think can beat them in the playoffs. All right. Instead of going to who won the week, let's get to Vince right now.

Nate, the Rams lost to the Jets today. Did you see that? Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. That was not a glitch. That was not a glitch on my game pass. That was not what I thought it was. That was another Venom symbiote coming after me in the witching hour because I'm like, no way am I actually watching this game.

I thought I was not going to watch one minute of this game. And now I'm watching the entire like second half of this game. Gosh, dang it. This was supposed to be an easy morning slate of games. So in the second half, it felt like, all right, you know, they're coming back. This is inevitable. They'll end up winning. Yeah.

Camaker scores a touchdown. Looks like that the door is shut. The punt return was that was when I was like, oh, then they're going to score. They had a punt return pass in the field. They're going to score. That's it. Exactly. It fell after the woods touchdown.

I was like, all right. You know, I'm doing planning for what I'm going to write. It's like, okay, well, they could lose, but are they really going to lose? That was the conversation and just the overall tone of it. And then penalty. After penalty. And then it happens. So there are a couple of things we need to hit here.

One, the Jets winning this game is a potential franchise altering moment. Like, that's real. That's absolutely real. Big branching point here. This is a multiverse moment. Multiverse moment right here. And I don't want to put too much on this because we've seen guys that were supposed to be the second coming like Trevor Lawrence's end up becoming not that. And we've seen guys that were the third or fourth quarterback picked in classes become the best one.

Josh Allen is the best quarterback from that class right now. I mean, he is playing the best of that group. And he was not the first quarterback taking in that class, obviously. It's probably a different consideration with Lawrence than it was for pretty much every other quarterback prospect that's come along in a while. But it's possible to be okay if you're the Jets. If you get Justin Fields, whoever the second quarterback is and you build around him and you have all these assets,

it's not over. But this is disheartening if you're a Jets fan to say the least. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And Jax fans, you know, we might not be doing it this week, winners of the week,

but Jax fans are the big winners. There, oh my God, you can just hear a big scream out of Jacksonville as all the Jets fans transplants down in Florida and, you know, whatever's left in Jacksonville, whatever goodwill.

they have right now. But how about like Sam Darnold today? Like my baby boy. Like he had a free, he had some plays that were like flashy a flash. Just create stuff with his life. So slippery. Oh,

so slippery. He ducked out of like three or four Donald Sachs that should have happened. So I'm looking back at the 2011 standings when luck was coming into the draft. Okay. And so the Rams also were too. and 14 that year. So it seemed like the margins were also very slim. I was going to ask you if you can remember another moment where winning a game

swung somebody's fortunes like this or potentially swung their fortunes like this. I guess I'd have to think about what the actual interplay was during that 2011 season. But I can't remember as a football watcher a winning a game meaning this much to a team in a bad way. Yeah, I mean, I would have to think of like, you know, I can't remember what happened in like the 97th season for the 98 draft, you know, with, with Leaf and Manning. You know, that's like the other one. I'm trying to like just think of the history.

But even then it was a coin flip, right? Even then it was like, oh, well, if you don't get Manning, you'll get Ryan Leaf. It's just people were like, it wasn't that big of a deal, which is hilarious now. Yeah, no, no big deal. We'll just get the other one. But even in the moment, I think that there was a debate. Now I don't think that there's a debate. I mean, Lawrence is the guy.

and now you don't get the guy. And I know it's, this will be the worst that it is, this moment right now, unless Trevor Lawrence becomes some undeniable, transcendent quarterback, and whoever they get at number two, can't even play. That would be the only other time this gets worse than it is in this moment. But right now, I know a lot of Jets fans and I just, as someone who also has been in a place where he's kind of rooting against his team right now because all I care about is the draft in the future,

watching your team win a game in those moments is not always enjoyable and for the Jets is as bad as it possibly could get. So on the flip side of this, does this make you feel differently about the Rams? This is a tough moment for you. As someone who has been just banging the Rams drum the entire year, even before the season,

I don't want to put too much on this because these games happen, but they've happened to the Rams a couple different times this year. And that's the problem. Goff, I think, at the second worst EPA, per dropback in the NFL this week among quarterbacks.

Drew Locke was the only person who was worse. And those are the moments that give you pause about this Rams team is that they can look great. They can have games like they did against New England last week. But there are always these stinkers looming. And when you get after golf and you're making him uncomfortable,

they just can't play a style where they're doing something outside of their comfort zone. When he's having to make plays and they're having to do things in a reactionary way, they really struggle. And I think you saw that again today. We're like the chiefs are like Michael Myers and they're coming after you, always coming after you.

Like, I don't know, like the Rams are more on offense. And with Jared Goff back there, almost like the scream villain like ghost face where they can trip and stumble and all that. It's like a bunch of high school kids. So like, you know, sometimes it's terrifying when they trick you. And then, you know, I'm coming up with this on the spot. So, you know, it's so good. It's just go with it.

Just go with it. So, you know, they can trick you with the two killers. spoilers alert came out in the mid-90s but you know with the two killers that's their run game the past game you know and sometimes they trip and fall and doesn't look as terrifying but I don't know the Jets today were what plus 17 like this is I think I saw a tweet this was the third biggest upset since the league on like a spread point manner since uh 1978 when the league expanded 16 games Jesus third biggest upset there were 11 to 1 11 to 1 dogs actually the one one of the one of the one that was tied for the one of the biggest upsets was the dolphins being the

Patriots last year, which is kind of funny. But I don't know. I am still banging the Rams drum. I think it was just a blemish, but it does show you that how easy, how thin of a line they run on offense when it, Jerigoff has to get in that dropback game. And if they just stop their toe a couple of times, it does not look pretty because then they have to get away from what they like to do and run in the run script and run the naked's off of it. And when they just have to go into empty and drop it back, teams can game plan for them. When they look multiple in their base offense, it's hard to game plan for them. And so you're just holding out to your hats that they trip and trip and fall

and do something stupid. But then when you can get them into empty and predictable, then defense can control the tempo. We talk about how the ramps can go on the quick. They can do a long count. They can change up the formation. They get jets sweep it. They can shift.

But then all of a sudden when it's second and long or third and long, and they have to get into that empty game where they run the screens and stuff, that's when the defense can control what they want to get out of the ramps. That's what the dolphins did to them. So yeah, it's when they are such, they're running that thin line of they can just look like shit on offense. But I still believe in this defense to keep them in every single game. So that's why I was going to ask you. Yep.

That's why I'm still a big fan of the Rams because I still think even though the Jets, the Jets did actually did some nice stuff today. They were like a four strong with the back week and they was like, holy shit, what's going on with the Jets offense right now? So that's, it's interesting. I wanted to ask you this. And this is a bigger question. I watched a lot of the Rams defense over the last week or so. And when they do some of their stuff out of that too high look against the jet motion and when the passing strength changes quickly, they'll lock that backside corner against some stuff and he'll abandon that side of the field.

And they can get late leaking stuff, whether it's the guy that goes in motion or a back. Have you noticed that? Because that happened a couple times today, including on the first touchdown that they threw to Tyron Johnson. Big time today. The intermediate defenders or linebackers and safety said a lot of trouble today with jet motion. And that's a to point you're just breaking out. They lock that defender. So it's basically creating a three by one or a four by one, however you want to look at

it. But that locked defender is getting ran out of there. Like I said, the offense, the offense can dictate this. He runs out of there. And then they just- So explain this. So when you, when you're in a three-by-one or a four-by-one formation, even if you're in cover four, cover three, the single corner on that side, even if you're in zone, is in-man

coverage on that receiver. So if that receiver clears out of that. space all the way across the field. He follows him even though it's zone coverage. So now there's no one left over there. Yeah. And this is where kind of the modernization of rules. We picture cover three spot drop.

Hey, just drop deep third. Madden, you know, that is just what you picture cover three. And that is sometimes what you do. But a lot of this, what it is in a normal coverage call is they just will lock onto that, that offensive player and they'll come inside.

It might be an overrout. It might be a slim route. It might be just anything coming in breaking, but they're locked onto it. It becomes a man thing. Yes. And so when that guy gets voided out of there, he is not sitting over the top when something comes in the flat. So when those linebackers with the jet motion don't communicate quickly and don't pass it off or don't run through, if they have that hesitation where they go, okay, what now?

Then it's doomed. And if it plays like a third and three, it's done, done it because all they need is a four yard game. It becomes a race. And that's actually what the Jets did a couple times. And that's a little worrisome. If the Jets are doing that and they're able to game playing against you, that is, you know, people have made a lot. lot of jokes about the Jets offense for good reason. But I do think they it was just a bad game script again for them. But it's that is what can happen is if they you're going to run the same coverages

like the Jets, uh, the Rams like to run. It's great stuff. But you can be predictable and teams can game plan against you. You just have to be able to withstand that. The over the last month and a half or so, I think since that Seattle game, the only times I've really seen teams take advantage of them in the passing game is with stuff like that. If you go back and you watch that Seahawks game, they had a couple different plays where they had Lockett leak out to that side after going in jet motion. One vertically, another time, he's just sitting over there. And they actually threw back to him because that side is vacated. So that's something that's come up a decent amount.

And I'm sure it's something they can get fixed. But it has happened several times here because of the way that their defense is structured. So just something to keep an eye on. Better now than the wild. Exactly. Exactly. But I definitely noticed it because, as I definitely noticed it, because as a. I was watching them so much.

And those are the plays that, again, they seem to have trouble with consistently. All right. Let's move on. We're not going to do who won the week this week because there's just too much to talk about with playoff implications. So when I was at the Ringer, each year I used to do something near the end of the season called the Wild Card Threat Index. And I don't write anymore or as often anymore.

So we're going to have to do it on the podcast now. The thought behind this is you look at the teams that are going to be in the wild card or in the hunt for the wild card at this point in each conference and think about who has the best chance of winning one to two games. So among the wild card teams in both conferences, who has the best shot of making the final four, similar to what the Titans did last year. So if you're looking at the NFC,

and this is going to allow us to hit on a lot of the big games that happened today, among the NFC wild card hopefuls, and I'm putting Washington in there as an honorary wild card, even though they're going to win the division possibly, out of the Cardinals, the Bucks, the Rams, and Washington, in your opinion, who has the best chance among that group to win two playoff games? I just spilled out my thoughts on them, but I'm sitting there. I know you are. Yeah, I know.

I know you are. Yeah, I just did like a Jeopardy answer right there. I just, you know, already already answered it, so we're good. But no, just like I said before, I trust that defense. I trust them adjusts. All that stuff I just stated about showing some blemishes. I trust that staff to adjust because I've seen teams take advantage of them a little bit and they shorted up a week later. And that's a sign of a good staff and at least knowing, again, a good well-coached team or unit, they know where their weaknesses are.

And hopefully they adjust and keep adjusting. And I've seen McVe adjust on offense. And sometimes it's not going to, it doesn't look like, you know, especially 2017. But, you know, still there's some good stuff. They, 2018 too. It's like he's going to know what they are. And I think that once they get into the playoffs, and it's like, okay, he has film out there. He's going to go, no, hey, there's nothing left left to lose.

Okay, nothing else that we can hide or we're going to throw everything out there. We're going to throw the kitchen sink out there. And I think that's what he's going to do. So I think they can make it run like that. I tend to agree just based on the way their defense can play and the way that it has all a year. The bucks aren't in that conversation to you. I mean, today was one of those games where it looked like at halftime, like this was coming off the rails. And it's like, they're getting blown out by the Falcons.

like what the hell was happening. Things got right in the second half. But I'll admit, as somebody who thinks that that team still has a puncher's chance in a lot of games, just by virtue of the talent that they have on offense and some of the things that they do on defense, just a strange game. I mean, they're just getting roasted on some of these plays. And I would love for you to explain this to me. The amount of cushion that they were playing with in the first half on some of these play action throws

where it looks like cover three. And they're giving them like 15 yards. of cushion and they're just eating it up underneath. It's like, what is happening right now? And why are you playing this far off of Russell Gage? We, we talk. That was a great delivery of the name Russell Gage. But, but, but with with, actually like Russell Gage. He did some nice stuff. Oh my God. He did. His touchdown on the out route, like him and Calvin Ridley, like, they timed that, that timing on it. It was beautiful. Yeah. The bucks are kind of like just a big heavyweight puncher. They are just going to throw their haymakers at you. You know,

you're getting with them. It's it's George Foreman in the 70s. Like they're just going to come at you. Just throwing haymaker, throwing haymaker, throwing haymaker. And it's like, okay, you have to adjust for it. And, you know, with that, and especially early on, they're getting beaten man stuff. And like, one thing I noticed was like watching some of the old, old cardinal stuff when Ariens was there was he just kept going like every drive, it seemed like, hey, we're going to feature John Brown here, but this back when they were cardinals. Hey, we're going to run duo three straight times here. Hey, hey, we're going to do a three straight times here. Hey, hey, we're going to do. this this time here. And it was just like, that's what it seems like, it seems like every drive they're going to go, like, we're going to hit in this package of place. And we're going to do it. We're going to hit grok in this drive. And everything with what they do on defense too, we talk about offense so much. What they're going to run on defense too on the bowls is they're going to be in man. And their zone stuff is not so much matchy. It is spot drop. So what you're saying with them being

so far off the ball, a good offense. And actually what the Atlanta was doing today, they're running the crap out play action. So they're getting their linebackers going up and up and down. Tons of play action. like seven on the first drive it felt like but when you they can keep them in base personnel when bowls is in base personnel he's going to create a five-man front and either run man or spot drop zone so i think what was happening is what the falcons were doing is running some play action off of it or catching them to blitz and these corners are just playing off and off and off and they just took advantage and they had guys that could take advantage of it so i think that's what it was happening a bit they're a little predictable they are trusting that their guys are going to make place that is truly what

they do as an entire team it's like hey we have better talent in you and we're going to let them shine. We're not going to really adjust for better or for worse because, but we're just going to roll the ball out there and just let our guys go make plays. It felt like in the second half, the Bucks did a pretty decent job of reacting to a lot of the pressure stuff the Falcons are doing in the first half, getting the ball quick. There are a couple screens, the one just like quick screen to Brown. Godwin had another one.

I think they did a decent job of that. I also feel like the Falcons just weren't bringing as much heat in the second half, though. Yeah. When it's some good stuff early on, yeah. Yes. And I really, there were a couple plays where it still feels like the Bucks don't have good answers to pressure at times, which were in week 15, and I don't understand how that's the case. But there were a couple where it just worked out well. There was a five-man pressure where Deion Jones had the sack, and it looked like Brown was coming open as the replacer on the hot.

And Brady was just laid on it. And it's just some of that stuff happens. But there were a couple times, the long Brown touchdown, Gronk was in as an extra body in pass protection, which you have the greatest tight end of all time now is a blocking tie down. passing down, which was fun. Germain Gresham, we're old, baby.

That's what we're going to do. But it did feel like when they could protect today, they were making plays. And I think that's what was happening in the second half. And on the flip side of that, they were sending more pressure in the second half against Atlanta. Devin White made three, I mean,

sometimes you look at three sacks for a linebacker. Like, oh, those were cheap. He had two huge sacks. The one down on third down after, essentially, Anton Winfield saved the game in the back corner of the end zone

with that tip of, and the throat to Ridley. I was playing against him in fantasy. My heart jumped out of my throat on that play. And then the one he had on the other side to seal another drive is one of the most impressive athletic plays I've ever seen a linebacker make as a pass rusher. Did you see this? He blitzed into the B gap and almost like jump cut like Lashon McCoy into the A gap and then

just hit it for a huge sack. And like you said, these are just plays that they're trusting their talented guys. to make and sometimes they just have enough talent. Yeah. They're just going to roll the ball out there and go, okay, we're going to just outplay you. Just that's literally, we're out execute you no matter what we're going to have. I have the plane out there. It is.

They're the heavyweight puncher. So it's, it's, if you think they can land enough knockout shots in playoffs, you can bet on them. But it's, I've just seen some of the bad where they face a good team that just goes, yeah, we know what you're going to do. We're no going to have a limit. But like even today, though, like the. they run the field out. It looked good though.

Like Brady hit the field out to Mike Evans for a nice like 12 yard gain. And it's like, oh, those are the ones that we've talked about that have been pick sixes before. So it's like, okay, is that Falcons or is that the bucks, you know, coming along and actually getting it. So, you know, the run game is a little limited, like what they can do right now. You know, they pass protect pretty well. They do some funky stuff with how they move the center, but they can get away with it. But it's just one of those teams. The Falcons did a good job of wasting the center a couple of different times today.

We just standing there doing nothing. Yep. Yep. They kept mugging them up and then bringing the guy from the field. And, you know, the bucks adjusted, though. So it's actually a good coaching staff. I cracked the jokes. But, you know, at least they adjusted up front.

I'm like a little bit right there. So what about Arizona to you? 33 to 26 today over the Eagles. Kyle and Murray 27 to 36, 406 through the air, which I don't know if that's more a product of the Eagles having no defensive backs or the Cardinals passing game showing some signs of life. I can't really decide at this point. I think it's more Eagles, not be able to. able to cover his soul.

I've seen them play stack against like the, the Packers and it just looks silly. That looks like day one install. Just the coverage unit. But oh my God, but there was a sequence where Kyler scrambled for, it was a two minute drive going into the half. He like scrambles for a five yard gain after he hangs in the pocket.

Scambles for five yard gang gets down almost gets his head taken off, which happens to him like 20 times a game. But he's so good at it. So it doesn't matter. But then the next play, there's confusion because they're trying to get the ball down. They must have one timeout or no timeouts. And there's spike in it.

The receivers are communicating. ball snaps really the center as soon as you grab his ball snaps it goes over kiler's head and to fumble you know there's a flag fumble ball clock you know all this stuff and i was just thinking i was like poor kiler man like he is just like you know he's just it's just him and just the stooge is out there sometimes and you know he does some great stuff and that's why i i kind of hedge against the cardinals a little bit because it's just i see all these incredible things he does like the touchdown to larry i mean larry larry makes a fitzherald makes a great touchdown but the baller ball placement was like, yeah, one in a hundred. And, you know, Kyler does that though. He does it

every game. And now he's getting healthy again. So as far as you can think Kyler can take him, but I just, I don't know, it's just the Eagles, man. It's just I've seen that the Eagles are not anything to write home about right now. I tend to agree. I mean, you saw just the plays that Hopkins made down the left sideline against, I don't know, whoever was trying to guard him, whatever like, in practice squad defensive back was trying to cover the best wide receiver in the NFL was having a hard time. He came down with like three catches today where it's just like that's stupid. The touchdown, he was holding the ball like a tennis ball. Like it was not.

It looked like a toy. It was so silly. It was like Shaq with a basketball. Like, you know, like you're, or like you see any of those centers with a basketball where it just looks like a little like softball in their hand. Which is funny because D'adre Hopkins played basketball. And I can't imagine that he was a very good free throw shooter with how big his hands are. But apparently he was pretty good at basketball.

He's always deceptively short. So he's like six once. Yeah. So true. It's so true. So before we move on from that game, is it okay if I throw some cold water on the Jalen Hertz thing? Is that, is that all right with you? Yeah, go for it.

I mean, so Jalen hurts. Not so fast, my friends. That's what you're doing. So Jalen Hertz today goes 24 or 44 for 338. And he was sacked six times. Okay. He threw three touchdowns, which is great. He added 63 yards on the ground.

That element is nice. He had a rushing touchdown, which he really did give them some stuff in high. leverage moments, but that's what he's doing. He's giving them more life because he's able to provide answers when shit breaks down. He's a good scrambler. He's making plays on the move. That's something this Eagles offense needed because of how stagnant everything was under Carson Wentz. That stuff is really nice. But I'm not chalking this up as like J-1-Hertz is going to be a star. He's done some nice stuff. And that's really fun for an Eagles team that, absolutely needed something.

But I'm going to need to see a lot more of Jalen Hertz playing quarterback from. It's like, this guy is the future. No questions asked. The Eagles are fine. Like he had his best touch, the longest passing touchdown he had today was a 32 year give up screen to Kez Watkins. And then he had another give up screen that went for 25 and he scrambled for a fourth and six. This is a guy who had an intentional grounding in the end zone for his safety.

He fumbled inside his own 20 with the game on the line. He's really fun. I've been impressed with some of the stuff he's done. But I'm not in this place where it's like, oh, yeah, Jalen Hertz is definitely going to be a decade-long starter for the Eagles. Don't worry about it. Quarterback is fine. Like, I'm excited for what he's going to look like down the road. I'm excited to keep watching him.

Again, he has done things for them they absolutely needed. But I don't think this is a given by any stretch. Yeah, you don't really see him. I mean, throwing Outbreakers to the field. and go balls. And like you'll see great when you throw on those. But he's been laid on some. But until he does a little more than that, you want to just see a little bit more. And shorter, you know, just a little sidebar. Like shorter and younger guys actually will throw balls more to the sidelines a little better as long as it's not like, you know, like a throw that requires arm straight. It's because they could see it actually come open. So that's why you really want to see guys hitting intermediate and benders and all that kind of things because they trust the things. They can open. They can see stuff open up in front of them. So but like, you know, Hertz doesn't do that yet. And, you know, it's, he has a lot of starts under his belt. So he has to start progressing to that.

It's nice. Like you said, it's nice. It's different. It's they, he can come off the first read and says, as opposed to Wentz running into the back of his, his guard in front of him. Hertz is making a play and, you know, outrunning an angle and creating a first down. He's dynamic. We, you know, Wents is big and he's fairly athletic, you know, but Hurts is athletic,

you know, and he can actually create these plays. He's making plays. He's making guys miss. Yes. And that's great. And I, and I think that by all accounts. he's a really good guy and like he has the right attitude and all this stuff. I want him to be successful. I'm, I'm rooting for the guy. I just think that we are like 10 steps away from

Jaywin Hertz being an established starting quarterback in the NFL. Right now he is a fun player. Honestly, what he's doing right now isn't that different to me that a lot of the stuff that Kyler Murray did last year where it's like, oh yeah, this is fun. This is a guy who absolutely can go out there and make plays, but I don't know if he's a quarterback yet for the long term. And I think that that's okay. And I think it should be okay. Kyler just had that it factor right away. You can tell.

He's into deep balls. Like it's nobody's business. And then he's hitting any media throws. He's making everyone around a better. Like last year that receiving core was pretty similar to what the Eagles are working with right now. And he's making it work. And, you know,

Kyler also has that just that little possessed. Like he doesn't take the hits. Like, you know, he has that like almost Wayne Gretzky like a bill. to like absorb hits and avoid hits like you know but that just shows he has that like just that star quality and hurts you know it's just it just seems there's just so much more to be seen with him and it's you know it's two starts like i have to see a lot more before i even say anything about them all right let's get to the afc wildcard thread next here if you're looking at the afc wildcard teams right now and again we're going to throw an honorary one in there so if the four teams are

the browns the colts the ravens and the davens and the dalts and the daleks and the daleks and the daleks and the In your opinion, which of those teams has the best chance to win two playoff games? I'm going with the Colts. And I think we touched on it a little bit earlier. And, you know, it's a little bit of a little cop out early. You know, they could actually be borderline, you know, making the win as a like a division winner. They have a deep roster in the sense that they can hurt you in a lot of ways. They might not have the star power that some of these other contenders have.

and but they have de force buckner's freaking unfrikin believable and he is what they is unlocked what they want to do playing too high stuff but they did actually last week run a little bit single high stuff so that was actually kind of cool so i was like okay they're throwing in there there's knowing what they are and they're throwing in some changeups they know they can adapt a little bit but they'll sit in this two high stuff and run games with denico altry and autchery and and de force buckner and just creates havoc like when you're making i love them having to ray back too he is just like bad out of hell getting shot out of a cannon at times to his own detriment today because he's letting Sean wants to escape the pocket a couple times but he again they just have so many guys

where they're just habit creators you just drop them into the equation and it's like we're going to fuck shit up here and I really like it I love the collection of guys they have to do that and on the offensive side of the ball I think you saw some of that no name supporting cast today really step up. I've always liked Zach Paskill. I just think he's a fun player. And him going to get that 50-50 ball in traffic was a great play. And then the touchdown he scored the first one. I want to say it was either man or quarters down there. It looked essentially the same. Same outside. Yeah. Same outside. And so the guy's an outside leverage. And he runs a little shake route with like a really nice little head fake to cut back inside for the touchdown. Rivers puts it on the money.

And I was like, that's a really nice route. It's a really nice play. And they just have so many guys capable of that. And the game was close today. Obviously that the Texans had a chance at the end. I went back and to watch that start to finish again. That's just Deshaun making place. I mean, there was the one broken play, the one broken coverage where Hansen came all the way back across and it was a walk-in.

But for the most part, this is Deshawn outside the pocket. DeShon just hitting stuff late. there was nothing wrong about the Colts performance. They also didn't have that many possessions. I thought that Rivers played fine. I thought that overall, this is the Colts team that we're used to. DeShan was just, again, just pulling stuff out like very few guys can. Yeah.

Like, we just said poor Kyler. Like, poor Deshaun, even more so. I know. And even like we say no name, but like the Colts have as a role player, as a super role player, like Justin Houston. Like that's a nice who's playing well. So they like, that's really nice to have up front what they want to do. You know they have their linebacker pieces. Their DBs know what they are.

And, you know, it's looking good. Something that's been a question mark earlier, the run game looks a lot better. I was about to bring it up. Yep. Run game looks a ton better. Your boy. Let's split some Johnson Taylor. Oh, yeah.

His little touchdown, he had some sweet feet on that one. He made JJ came. It was a little Wisconsin on Wisconsin crime. JJ came down and he cut and he got north. And you forget just how big he is because he is so explosive fluid. Yeah. Yeah, Dalvin Cook is the fastest accelerator, but like John the Tower, it's so crazy because he's 2.30 being able to just gets a zero to 10 so quickly. But like the Colts, like you said, they didn't have a lot of possessions.

Everything they do is just so tidy. You know, like defensively, they're just tidy on defense. Officially, especially when Philip Rivers doesn't have any of those brain fart moments, you know, he's nice and tidy what they do on offense, especially with the run game looking how they, how they did. And it's almost like how the Pistons were in the mid-2000s when they won the championship and all that. But I'm not saying like, oh, Colts are going to win a championship or anything. But it's, you know, but like just how that team would just beat you with a different player every night and just about death by a different guy every single night. That's kind of what the Colts are as a whole team. Even saying that, T.Y Hilton's playing better.

It's just a fun, fun team to watch because they have so many likable players that are tough, fun, dynamic and also like very intelligent players you can tell. and it's a cool team to watch. I totally agree. They play the right way. That's why I enjoy watching them play. And speaking of that, I'm sure, did you throw to Ty White Hilton to seal the game? That's got to be like just football heroin to you.

I mean, against too high coverage, he's in the slot. He runs just straight up the middle of the field. Linebacker can't keep up with him. Rivers just puts it right in there. for a monster game and to win the game. I was like, that is a perfect bit of quarterbacking and a perfect call in that situation. It's one of those things that like, yeah, thank you. Thank you for knowing that that that's like just mainlining for me.

Like, you know, because that is just because yeah, it was right down the pipe and that's why it might as well be for me. It was just that's one of those throws that like, I, because I don't want to sound like a snooty like, oh, got inside baseball. But it's like, you know, kind of like, oh, yeah, that's a good throw right there. Like any, any like seam bender throw, like those are ones that like, quarterbacks will go, oh, that's nice because you really have to trust it. That's like the field out throws.

A field comeback can really get that reaction. But oh, yeah, oh, yeah, down the pipe versus like a running linebacker with his back turn. That's going to always get like a nice illicit response from me. It was beautiful. The Colts keep doing this to me. The Colts keep doing. They run the ball on third long. They pick up blitzes.

Like, yeah, they're just going to be my little like dirty. Again, they play the right way. It's a team we like to watch. I know. The athletic. football show is a pro Colts podcast. This is a pro Colts show is hard to say. Okay, let's get to a couple of these other AFC teams, though, because even if the Colts are your answer, I want to talk about the chances a couple of these other teams have. We just out on the Dolphins at this point,

like fun story, maybe next year, but two games, I'm not sure the offense is good enough for them to win two games. Yeah, it's hard to like black out my memory that the Patriots defense isn't all that this year, especially with us, you know, like what they did to. They played better lately. They have. But they're still not great. Yeah, they're still average probably at best. But you know, like, Durham Smyth, like tight end all this for the dolphins.

Like, what the hell? Like where that comes from? Like, he has a couple nice plays today. They really perk me up. Perk me up that I want to give him a shout out. Yeah, Tua just, I mean, he really does an awesome. He really just reminds me of Mark Brunel. And it's just crazy.

And like he is just so efficient. You lack imagination. That's just a lefty thing. I know. And that's why I hate about it. Like, I hate it. That's why I've held that comparison. If you can come up with.

the right-handed quarterback comparison for two, and then I'll be impressed. Like Hawaiian Alex Smith, but like it's, but it's, it's one of those, like he is just so efficient in his movement. So we've talked about it.

Like he had some great times where he made a pass rusher, either a blitzer or a guy that beat alignment. And he just stepped up and out and delivered a throw. He'd like back to back on the driver. He hit a fourth down. And it was when he had the scramble touchdown. Because he had a fourth, it was like a fourth and eight.

They went for it, which is awesome. Way to go dolphins. King of the Nerds. And then, you know, they had the Scramble TD late. And that's what it was like, I was like,

oh, man, he really does some nice things. And they, split zone was a player of the day today. That was like, but that's what dolphins ran the crap out of it. Robert Hunt,

he had a play where a split zone where he blew off Winovich like three yards. And it also gave like a side chicken wing to like a DB that came down that like went a couple yards. And I was like, holy crap, where that come from? So doing some fun things.

But I just think they're a year away. But it is cool seeing how. seeing how well coached they are. And I think, remember, remember the Rams in McVeigh's first year in 2017? Yes. And it was like, oh, they do some fun things. Say, okay, I can see a lot. I can see that they might be pretty good.

That's what they feel like. I'm not saying, oh, they might make them run the race. But that's what it feels like. It's like they do nice things. They have some real nice players. They look like they're putting it together. They look like they're really well coach. Okay, let's see with another off season, with a real off season, what they look like next year.

I feel the exact same way. And right now, they only have a 31% chance to make the playoffs, according to 538, and that's because of the schedule they're about to play. They have the Raiders and the Bills over their next two. The Raiders obviously on the downslide, but they're still a decent team. And the bills, even if they have the division locked up, could potentially still be playing for the number two seed, which would allow them to play the worst wildcar team, which, ironically, if they went out, would be the Dolphins.

So I think I'm on the exact same page. I think next year, they probably won't make it based on the math and the team we're about to talk about next. But next season, I'm very excited to see where they're going. I think we love the direction, all of that. The team that is slated to overtake them in the playoff race because of their schedule and the way they're playing right now is the Baltimore Ravens. Do you feel any more confident about the Ravens now than you did a month ago,

considering how poorly their offense had been playing and the way that they've looked in spurts here over their last couple games? One thing that's making me feel better is they're giving the ball J.K. Dobbins a little more. that makes me feel a little better, but it's same question marks for me as a whole team. Defense, I still think can hang on anybody because they can live in man coverage and blitz and live in it. Like not just, oh, we can do it with that with some other stuff we do. It's like, no, they can do it every single snap and create plays, not just actually like just

hold on for dear life. Offensively, I just think until I see more out of that passing game, unless they're holding it for the playoffs, but they're not in position to do that. that's not, it's just still have the question marks. That drop back passing game, but they have to stay out of it. Don't think they have the consistent receiving threats they need. But Lamar is playing out of his freaking mind. It's fun to see him play out of his freaking mind.

Okay. Here's my challenge to you. Yeah. Why are you more confident about the Rams' chances to win two playoff games than you are about the Ravens' chances to win two playoff games right now? Do you think the Rams' defense is that much better than Baltimore's defense? And you think that the Ravens passing game is that much more questionable than the Rams? Just conferences they play in.

That's it. That's the reason. Okay. That's my biggest reason. If the Rams were into AFC, I'd have maybe a little more question marks with them. I just think that they can get away with more what's going on to MFC. The MFC, to me, is still the Big 12th. That is still the, that is just how I look at it.

It's any team could beat any team at any time. I think the AFC is more just, it's like the SEC or a big, good, big tenure. I don't want to piss off any college fans, you know, can't do that. But, you know, it just looks like they just have a lot more head. heavy hitters. So I think they have enough more teams that can take advantage of your blemishes. So I think it's totally fair if you actually look at the seating. So if the Rams do end up with the five seed in the NFC, which they have right now because they have a tiebreaker over Tampa Bay, they would play Washington or the NFC East winner in the first round, which they absolutely

can win that game. But potentially, if they're the lowest remaining seed after that first round, they could have to play the Packers in Lambo. So that would be tough. But so going to the AFC, the Ravens do end up getting that number seven spot. They would play against the Steelers in the first. I mean, yeah.

So, I mean, they could win that game. They absolutely, I think, could beat Pittsburgh with the way Pittsburgh's playing right now. But then they would have to play against the Chiefs. Chiefs. Yeah.

So that's, that's the thing. So that's, I think that's fair. I think the. Rams beating Washington and the Green Bay is more realistic than Baltimore beating Pittsburgh and the Sheaps. So I think that you're right. Rams match up pretty well against the Packers too.

It actually would be a fun game to watch. I'm getting way ahead, way, way ahead because it's football any given Sunday or Saturday or Friday at this point. But yeah, but that's it's going to be fun. All right. Before we move on, we should talk about the Browns. The Browns fans are going to be mad. So after the win tonight, it looks like they're going to be in. Yeah.

I also tend to think that the Browns are a year away. Yeah. I feel like they're secondary getting healthier, some tweaks to their personnel on defense because they don't have a lot of the guys they'd want to run some of the stuff they want to under Joe Woods. I feel like the offense is very good. It is set up for Baker's success. I actually think he threw the ball extremely well tonight.

I was really impressed. But I still feel like they're a team that's going to struggle to fight left-handed if forced out of that play-action boot-style play that they want to have. It's the Titans from last year, but without maybe the peace defense to generate havoc and create turnovers and let them make it run that they want to. But, you know, every week they're kind of making me bigger, bigger and fan. I've hedged and hedged less and less each week I watch them. They do a lot of nice stuff. And Baker's playing better in what they ask him to do. And trying not to be the hero as much.

But yeah, it's, I still think they are your way. I think they just, that defense can't live in a firefight that they need to, they need to be in, I think, of how the players are going to run how they are. They remind me of the 2017 Rams in a way. Okay.

Where you have this offense that just clicks from the start, you're putting your quarterback, your former number one pick quarterback who is struggling, you now have gotten everything you possibly can out of him. The defense is a question mark for them. And I think that in year two, if you can add some pieces and things come together and everything else, we could really see them take off.

But I just, if they have to be down 14 or you're asking Baker to throw a lot, a team that's going to bring a lot of heat in very defined passing situations, I think they would really struggle in a game like that. That's a pretty nice comparison with, with Miles Garrett and Aaron Dahlel, too. You know, that's not a bad comparison. Yeah, there you go. There you go.

Keep on doing it. Let's keep doing it. So before we move on, I want to ask you, because you said, the Titans last year, in your mind, what is different about this Titans team compared to last year's Titans team? Because the defense is appreciably worse. Yeah. But do you think that the offense has improved enough and has kind of built more answers

into what they do for them to be just a more beefed up version of the team we saw in last year's playoffs? Because that's how I think of them right now. That's exactly it. I think the defense is a little worse. And I think the offense is a lot better. I have more faith in Tana Hill. They're the number one team in the league in EPA

for playing out, by the way. And they look like it. There's never once where I watch them and I'm like, what the hell are they doing? It's like every game, they look like a competent, good offense, which is saying something.

It's hard to look good every single week. You know, shit happens in the NFL where you just have a bad half, bad quarter, bad a couple series. And they just, they might have a bad series, maybe a couple where they have to get in the third and long situation,

but they look so good. I mean, Corey Davis keeps coming on. Oh, my God. I mean, I have to mention them every week. He's the new pit with old Pittsburgh Steelers show is now me talking about Corey Davis. And just, but just, I mean, the whole team is great. AJ Brown's a monster, Tana Hill. But it really is what Tanya Hill is doing.

They know what they are. They're running duo. Now more, we talked about how they're running split zone early in the year. Now they're running duo. So it's like, oh my God, they just keep adding to what they can do. And then defensively, they're kind of a wild card. You know, it's, you know, we're talking about wild card teams. or wild card round.

It's they kind of are though on defense. It's not, I know what piece was more. Peace maybe had more of a resume that I can reflect on that I was like, okay. Also, there was those haymakers that he threw on third down. That's the biggest thing is that the volatility that he brought that defense with some of the pressure shit that he did. They just don't have that this year. They don't even have that like every once in a while we're going to scare you into

a dirtying a ball on third and six because you don't have an answer to what we're doing. Even that aspect is gone. And I think that's, you've seen the cracks in what they were last year personnel wise. So the Titans are obviously playing as well as any offense in the league. I want to talk about two other offenses that are certainly in that conversation. So let's get to Woodie Wrapp. Like you mentioned at the top of the show, we had our first slate of Saturday games, and I didn't want to forget about those.

So the Bills and the Packers have been two of the best offenses in the NFL to this point in the season. They both been fantastic. They do it in different ways. Their quarterbacks do it in different ways. So I wanted to ask you, if you were game planning for these two offenses, who would you rather play against right now? The Packers are the Bills. I freaking neither.

I would rather play against the Bills just because I think. You don't believe in Josh Allen. It's fine. No, you can just admit it. It's fine. You just hate Josh Allen. It's all right. I've been a bigger fan of Josh Allen the most.

I went on a limb for you, Josh. But no, it's, it's, I think just what the Packers are doing every single week with the run game, not only with Aaron Frickin Rogers back there on fire and Devante Adams and him mind melding. And Tanya and coming along and just other pieces coming along. But also, I just think it's Aaron Rogers. And I know, they know what they are and they're just clicking on all cylinders. And as great as the bills look. And we've talked about a huge fan of what they're doing, what Daibles do, and just what the whole offense is doing and how they have so much variability every week. And that's really fun. Packers do too. Don't get me wrong. But I also think that they can have those moments where it does look convoluted. And it looks like when you do that much, sometimes you need stuff that you can rely on to get you those easy six, seven, eight yards. It's iso ball, basically. You know, not maybe in the sense of what scheme you're running, but at least you have something that you're like, hey, this guy's going to get us a bucket. This is what's going to.

to happen in a tough situation. That's what happens in the playoffs or just something of that. I just think the Packers are more because I know that, or maybe not, I don't know, but they look like they can have every week, they can attack you in a different way and they're going to do it in that way. Like they can get to it easier and they have a higher bar and even a higher ceiling when they're on fire. I also would rather play against the bills, but it's close. It is. And the reason that I would pick the bills is that when things get tight in the playoffs, I have faith in Rogers to get the Packers in and make the right play. I feel like what a lot of what the bills are doing right now

and you're seeing consistently week after week, Alan is able to make the great play. He has answers. It's just in a slightly different way. He's pulling answers out. He's making plays. He's scrambling when he needs to. His overall just bundle of traits is taking over.

He's playing the game at an extremely. extremely high level right now. I don't want to take that away from him. I don't want to make it seem like this is scatter shot and he's lucking into this stuff because he's talented. I do think he's playing quarterback in a way that I never expected him to play quarterback and a lot of people didn't. But I just feel like, yes.

But he is in control of what they're doing on offense. Rogers is in control of everything. It's the communication pre-snap. Again, getting them in the right run plays as often as he's getting them. all the RPO's they're doing, his understanding of, all right, you're in this box count, I'm doing this, you're doing this, I'm doing that. His ability to just react mentally to some of this stuff before it even happens, I just trust them to be in the right play for the right look all of the time.

I think that the bills are also finding answers. I just think that it's really Allen taking over and his athleticism and talent taking over. I just trust, I think that's a little less reliable. than what Rogers gives you. And that's okay. It's okay for Josh Allen to be less reliable at this point in his career than Aaron Rogers. I feel like game planning for the bills

is a pain in the ass right now because of all of the things that Josh Allen can do and just the overall skill position talent that they have. Diggs is playing out of his mind. What he is giving them is so different than what I thought he would give them because of all the underneath stuff that he's just eating on

because teams are worried about him beating over the top. And everything Beasley is doing underneath, they have a ton of answers built into the structure of their offense. And Alan is able to find them. I think that Rogers creates the structure of his offense to a certain degree. And I think that's why they're a little bit more malleable and a little bit more nimble than what the bills are going to be able to do. Their best strength,

because I'll reiterate something we said real early on, what we're talking about the chiefs and the Saints is, you know, what you need to beat the chiefs is those dice there. and the bills have it. They have, they can keep doing it, keep doing it. It might not look as pretty. Like you said, it's more Josh Allen reliant, but they can do it.

It's not every team has that in their back pocket where they can just go into that mode where their hair is on fire. So it's their greatest strength, you know, might be their biggest weakness at times. But right now it's just that they're playing on fire on offense and they can keep riding it if Josh Allen's playing this way. I can't remember the exact structure of the play was a couple days ago now, but the throw he had in between the numbers for the. the touchdown. It looked easy in the moment. And then you watch the replay. It's like,

oh my God. And he's making two or three of those a week where in the moment, it looks so simple that you're like, oh, that was fine. That guy was open. And then you watch it from different angles. It's like, no, not at all. That is a ball. He should not be able to fit in there. And he's doing it with ease. He is really fun to watch right now. But there's a difference between being exciting and being somebody that I would bet on against the team like the Chiefs. I think that right now it's still the Packers, even if it's a lot closer than I thought I thought it would be. All right.

Let's stick in the NFC North and just keep talking about things that make me sad for this week's secret sauce. Not today, my good man. I'm feeling saucy. So the Bears won today. They won 33 to 27. They're now 7 and 7. They've won a couple games in a row.

They should have beaten the Lions. didn't. Over the past three games, Mitchell Trubisky is 10th among quarterbacks in EPA per play. Today, Mitchell Trubisky was 15 of 21 for 202 yards in a touchdown.

Not the greatest stat line in the world, but efficient quarterbacking against a depleted Vikings defense, but, you know, for the most part, an NFL defense. David Montgomery had 146 yards rushing today.

The Bears have tapped into something with their offense. I don't know how far I want to take this, but it is real for this reason. They are doing things to help out their guys on offense, whether it's the quarterback, the guys up front and the back in ways they did not for a huge chunk of this year. They are building this plane out of outside zone and boot. The same way that we have seen teams do for the last two decades. And I did not believe in their ability to change the offense and lean into this stuff midstream in the way that they have. But they're doing it and it is working right now.

Early, God, you sound just thrilled. What are you doing all those stats and offense? I just don't. I'm just confused. You confused? I'm just confused. We were on this show. We were, they benched them against Atlanta.

And you asked me like, why did they bench him? And I just remember being like, I don't know. Like, and we were like, yeah, we don't know. Early on the season, when they were winning, because they stormed out of the gates, on offense, they were doing exactly what they're doing. They're doing this. And it seems to be working. They're running slot play action, two man, three man play action concepts, bootlegs,

and a varied run game that looks great right now. And they're using, and they, Trubisky gives them an element because he's a tough, you know, athletic runner that it could raise their bar a little bit where they can get these cheap five, seven year runs, high variance run or, uh, uh, high leverage runs. And it's the same thing that Saints have been doing the last few weeks with Taysom Hill, what Titans did with Tannenhill, but they do it on a super high level. But it's the same exact stuff.

And they run a good split zone. They have a good run game. Trubisky gets some races their bar a little bit. And they run this simple pass game. And it works. And they play great defense. And they got away from it. They benched them in Atlanta.

And yeah, I don't know. I'm just as confused as you are. I'm not even a Baylor Bears fan. When I watched them today, it was like watching a Kyle Shanahan game from 2019. I mean, that's what it felt like. I mean, there were so many plays where you're just watching boot, just a flood concept to the other side, just a three-level flood, you know, and there was the one big completion to Mooney down the left sideline is just a vertical

clearout with a deep over route. That's it. It's the same shit that McVeigh and Shanahan do all the time. It is, there's staples of those offenses. Shockingly, they help your quarterback. So why it took this long for them to become the basis of the Bears' offense, if this was even an option at any point, I'm very confused about. And you watch the run game.

And I think it's a really reasonable question of why did the run game suck and why is it okay now? Part of that is the Vikings missing half of their front seven and Eric Kendrick's not playing and them not being very talented in that area in the first place. But I don't want to chalk all of it up to that. Go back if you're a Bears fan or if you're any, buddy, go back and watch all of the bears explosive or even mildly successful runs in this game. On pretty much every single one of them and on a lot of the big passing plays, you will see jet motion on almost every single one of them. And sometimes that was to get a guy in the flat very quickly on some of this boot stuff.

But in the run game, based on the way that the Vikings play, you see two things. One, guys bailing out. It's taking a linebacker out of the box entirely with some of the things that they're doing. Two, on Montgomery's touchdown, the short one, for example. The Vikings move the front based on where the strength is. So when you go in jet motion, they're literally moving the front at the snap, which helps you get guys out of gaps. This is not rocket science. These are simple little things that offenses have been using for the last several years in order to help their offensive line and make their running game more efficient.

now the bears are doing those things. It's just frustrating to watch an offense well-designed that puts its guys in positions to succeed and makes everything easier from the quarterback on down that wasn't doing it for a good chunk of the year. And the biggest question I have now is, what does this mean? And I don't know the answer to that. Because it feels like the offense is playing well enough where people might keep jobs and the staff might be back next year. And the way they're playing now,

I think that's justifiable. But if that's the case, then who's going to be the quarterback? Because clearly Nick Foles can't do this stuff to the same level that Mitchell Trabisky can. He doesn't have the functional mobility that Trabisky does.

So now what happens? I don't know the answer to that. It's just frustrating that the Bears ran this type of offense for the first couple games of the year. Tribisky was not very good in some stretches, but was mostly fine, much better than he had been. Yeah, he was better. And then they yank him, put foals in, and run an offense that they can't run based on the

offensive line talent that they have in the quarterback that they have. And then they go back to Trubisky and they go back to a system that makes it easier on the quarterback. It's just really frustrating. It was like, you know, a team that has great defense wants to play like a ball control offense. They play, like, they should play how the Vikings want to play, like, to a T. like how Mike Zimmer wants to play

and they're just doing tooth and nail De Philippo and all them on off and the bears there are just like no you can't make me we're going to be different than running this this offense that's so true run game they're like no we are not that offense it's like it's okay it's okay it's not your fault that's why I'm so confused

because obviously Bill Laser is the one calling plays now but there's a difference between changing the structure of your offense and having someone different pull the left This is more than just the play caller. This is entire game plans and your approach offensively. Formations were completely different. Again, all of the motion, all of the moving pieces.

Motion for motion's sake is, we've talked about this. Who cares? But when you're using it for reasons and practical reasons that have utility, it can help you. And it is helping them. So the fact that this version of the offense was even a possibility at any point, it's extremely frustrating to know they didn't go to it earlier. And I don't know what the end game is either this year or beyond.

They potentially could have been into playoffs today if the Cardinals had lost that game. The Bears absolutely could win out. They're playing the Jags, then they play the Packers. The Packers might not have anything to play for. If the Cardinals lose one more game, the Bears are in the postseason if they went out. And now they have an offense that seems to be doing some stuff. the defense is still really talented. So I don't think they're going to be a threat to anybody,

but I think this raises serious questions about what next offseason is going to look like and the choices that they're going to make. I'm not going to posit any suggestions right now because I'm just not in that mental or emotional space, but it has been a very weird, confusing, tough to sift through a few weeks here as a Bears fan. That is what I will say. It's the sneaky winner of the week, even though we didn't do it. do a winner of the week. Actually, actually, no.

Is it though? No, my real winner of the week, even though we didn't do, my unofficial winner of the week is like, is cinematography fans throughout, throughout the country. We, I'm so glad you brought this. Washington Seattle game. Oh my God. It was like, Roger Deacons was working the sidelines. Like, it was, that was fantastic.

I was like, what is my, I was blinking. I actually blinked a couple times going on like, it just must be the clouds making it look, making it just look sharper or something. And I was, you know, I was watching it. And you said Roger Deacons. I made a In Uritu joke. It probably should have been an Emmanuel Lubaski joke because I know he shoots the movies. But that's like one step further until I went for it.

Movie nerd. But it was awesome. I loved it. For those who don't know, if you didn't watch a Seahawks game, they were using a weird Sony handheld camera in the end zone. And it legitimately looked like the revenant. It was incredibly strange the way they were shooting this. And it looked like a video game.

It was really, really cool. I fully support them doing this into the future, even if it was a little weird and maybe a little bit uncomfortable because of how realistic it was. Yeah, it's how realistic it was. That's so funny you say that because this is like a little movie tidbit tidbit is like when they made Finding Nemo, like the big thing with Finding Nemo is Pixar made water look realistic. Yeah. At first they made it look too realistic. See, Uncanny Valley. Yeah.

And it messed up. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. The human eye couldn't handle it. And so they're like, the human brain. So they're like, they had to dumb it down so we can, our brains could handle it and eyes could handle it. That's what, that's exactly what it was.

It was like, I looked at it. And I was just like, this doesn't look right. Like just alarm bells going off. Like, I was like, what am I, did I like, is this a commercial that they're tying in? Like, yeah, you just scored like they showed Deshawn Watson with the, you know, the advanced stat stuff like doing, oh yeah, 22% I did that. It's like that's what I thought it was like. That's what it felt like.

Yeah. Any uncanny Valley stuff will always remind me. the 30 Rock episode where Tracy's like, explain it to me in Star Wars. And he's like, here we have Han Solo, a real person. He's like, he doesn't seem like, he doesn't act like he cares, but he does. And he's like, and here we have a CGI stormtrooper. And he's like, and here, we have Tom Hanks and the Polar Express. He's like, I don't like it. Get me out of here. He's like, yeah, you're in the Valley. You don't want to be there anymore. That's how it felt. I was with Tom Hanks and the Polar Express. And I actually came around to it at the end, but it was a little weird at first.

All right. That is our diatribe on how the Seahawks, Washington game was shot. That is all we have for this week. Next week is week 16. We're getting here near the end. Playoffs are coming. I'm very excited about it. Thank you very much to everyone for listening. Please rate and review the podcast on your podcast platform of choice.

I would sincerely appreciate it. Please subscribe to the athletic. Our buy one, get one offer is still going. You buy a subscription. You get a subscription. It's going all the way through the end of the year. It's a great gift for the sports fan in your life. If you're trying to think of last minute holiday gifts, please consider it.

We will be back on Wednesday with a very special show with a couple very special guests. So please come back and check that out. Really appreciate your time. I'll talk to you guys later. This was the Athletic Football Show.