The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The Jets-Titans trade, the Malik Willis market, and the rest of the news from combine week

Episode Date: February 27, 2026

We wrap up our week at the combine with a look at the biggest actual news that happened while the entire NFL world was in Indianapolis. Robert Mays, Dave Helman and Derrik Klassen dig into the Jermaine Johnson/T'Vondre Sweat trade, the Malik Willis market, the rest of the QB carousel, the shifting sands at wide receiver, and plenty more on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Connect with The Athletic Football ShowBuy our merch! http://theathletic.lnk.to/tafsmerchYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Hosts: Derrik Klassen and Dave HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert May is our last day in Indianapolis. I'm driving home in like two hours. Great week. I love the combine. I love the combine. This is, I think, my 15th or 16th one, you know, spent four days here just visiting with other writers, you know, people from other media companies, friends, coaches, personnel people. It's unlike anything else in the NFL.

Obviously, the Super Bowl is the Super Bowl. but the Super Bowl is a massive sprawling event where not the entire league is there. I was talking to a coach yesterday at the Starbucks and the JW, which is the nerve center of this entire thing where Mike Sando just holds court for an entire week. And he was just saying, like, this is our convention. Like, this is the opportunity for everybody in our business

to get together and just kind of chat, shoot the shit, learn stuff. And that's exactly what the week in India is every single year. And so excited to go home and see my wife, but also sad to be leaving this because I really do enjoy it. We wrapped up our combine week here on the athletic football show in the same way we have for each of the last couple of years. Obviously, there's a lot of news nuggets that are going to come out that have nothing to do with the draft. Who's getting cut?

Who's not? Who's getting franchise tag? What does the quarterback carousel look like? What does the early kind of scuttlebut about player movement sound like? That's what we did today. Me, Dave, Derek, digging into all of the news that was from the NFL Combine in 2026. So let's get to that conversation right now. We are here at Radio Row at the Indianapolis Convention Center on what is our final day of the 2026 NFL combine.

And the good news is all of us have longer arms than Ruben Bain. Aw. I don't need to factor that, but I'm going to roll with it. I can't. No, everybody knows how short I am. I can't in good conscience make fun of Ruben Bain. He does have very short arms, though. It's the only bit of news I've seen.

That's the thing when I'm here is that like the days are so busy in a really cool way. like I love being here. But even like the trade we're going to talk about on the top of the show today, I didn't see it until like five hours after it happened just because that's kind of how the combine goes. And so the only bit of like draft nugget news I've seen is that Ruben Bain has really short arms.

But we kind of already knew that. I know. We were talking about that before you sat down. Like from the time he got on the radar as a prospect, it was like, well, Ruben Bain's not going to measure well. You just kind of have to make peace with that. He's still a good player.

But then when you see the number, everybody freaks the hell out. It's like, well, if no defensive end or edge player drafted in the top 100 has ever had arms that short, I get why it's a talking point, but I don't know, man. The tape's still really fun. We're going to have plenty of time in the next month and a half to talk drafts, really two months. I mean, the draft is essentially two months from right now. We're going to spend today kind of doing what we've done the last couple years on the final show from Combine Week.

We're just going to discuss what the news was around the NFL over the last few days. Some of this is going to be Nuggets from press conferences. Some of this is going to be things that people have reported about markets for certain players. Again, we've got a trade to talk about. So we're going to spend the next hour or so scooping up all of the things that have kind of come out over the last few days. And let's begin, Derek, with the trade that happened today. This is a fun one. There's a lot of layers to this.

It's kind of like a player for player trades are consistently my favorite thing that happens in the NFL because I always find them so compelling. this is another one where it's kind of a throwaway deal, but I actually think there's a lot to chew on here. Jermaine Johnson goes from the New York Jets to the Tennessee Titans. The Jets get back to Vandre's sweat in that trade. Your initial thoughts about this. I don't think it's a throwaway deal because this very clearly says that Robert Sala has full control of what's going on with the defense,

which we probably all assumed that that was going to be the case, right? And so I think him getting a player that had been effective under Sala previously and actually had played some of his best ball like back in 2023. three and I thought was finally ascending into the player he was supposed to be as like a second round pick obviously gets hurt that kind of starts to ruin some of that and so I'm pretty interested in what that looks like my conflicting thought on it is like I understand that solid style of defense doesn't really employ these 330 pound nose guards they don't really care for that to fonder sweat to me is like too good for that to be a consideration like I would still want that

kind of player on my football team that's why I like it for the jets yes why for the jets I really like it because it was funny. I was talking to a personnel guy today and we were just discussing pro-personal strategy and just like some of the players that you seek out in a given off-season. And when regime changes happen, that's when you can see opportunity, right? Because there are guys that are good players that may not be valued by the new regime in the way that they were by the old one just because you have a scheme change. Tomaj, so that's a perfect example of this, right? He had a really, really nice second season. But you go now to a four-down, attack front with Robert Saul. He doesn't really fit that style of defense. So he's more expendable than a player of his talent level should be.

And Jermaine Johnson's hitting free agency. It's $13 million against the cap, sweats, $10 million less than that. And Dave, you know this better than I do, but picking second overall in this draft, if the Jets want to pick an edge rusher with a second overall pick, they can fill that spot. So now, in a down year for defensive tackle specifically, you fill a defensive tackle need while also having an avenue to replace Jermane Johnson with four more cheap ears potentially. That is the main component of this for me. I do that. The salad part is a good, is a good note, Derek.

But it just crystallizes what the Jets might do for me. And like Fernando Mendoza is going one overall. We've known that for quite some time. I think it stood to reason the Jets might do this anyway, even with Jermaine Johnson on the roster. But now you do that. And now it's Will McDonald basically and some parts as far as edge rushers go. And now take your pick.

I would assume if it, If it were me, I would start doing the Photoshopps of Arvel Reese in New York Green. But if you like David Bailey, if... From Texas Tech. From Texas Tech. I want to be... Now that we're in a... We're away from the building, the Beast World.

I'm doing this for me as much as anybody else. I don't know that strongly who David Bailey is. So I assume there are some listeners out there who do not know who David Bailey is. Arvel Reese from Ohio State, David Bailey from Texas Tech. Ruben Bain from Miami. I think his... measurements are going to keep him from going to overall. But hey, if the Jets love him, then they could make him the number two pick as well. But it feels very, very likely that if the Jets are making that

pick, it'll be who they think is the top edge rusher in the drought. And I want to be clear. I do like this for the Jets and I do think it makes sense. I think it's just a smart move based on where they are. I also think this could work out for the Titans because Jermaine Johnson is still a young player. We've seen him be really productive. He's playing on his fifth year option. It is 13 million bucks. But if you get really nice production out of him, that's still a bargain for a really good Rusher and he wasn't a sending player in 23. He was not as good last year. Two different considerations there.

First year off in Achilles, always a crapshoot for guys. And two, it's just a scheme that he wasn't familiar with. You're one of a new system. You put him back in that wide nine world. We're going to let you pin years back get after the quarterback. And edge rusher was a massive need for the Titans. Just a massive, massive need. It was a massive need just based off last year.

And they're losing some of the guys that they had last year, like Arden Cajahad Ward. And those were all guys that really wouldn't have even made sense to bring back based on the defense anyway. So, like, they, other than the guy they drafted last year, they need bodies and bodies and bodies at edge. A couple more things, bits of news for the Titans. They released Lloyd Cushenberry and Xavier Woods on Wednesday. Frees up about $8 million in Capspace is the team that even with Jermaine Johnson on the

book still has like $90 million in effective Capspace, which is another reason I like that trade for the Titans because the Capspace has to go somewhere. There aren't that many edge rushers and free agency that you'd want to pay $13 million a year. So using that money on Jermaine Johnson and making a trade, it would be the reason you find a guy like that, I think makes sense. But Cush and Berry, that's another one where coming off the injury just was never quite the same. And Xavier Woods, even if he played okay last year, like you were talking about Derek, it's an older player.

You know, and sometimes that's just, you can go a different direction. There are a million safeties available in free agency. And so if you want to get a little bit younger at that position, that is something potentially the Jets could do. The Titans have spent. Or Titan Titans, excuse me. The Titans have spent so much money on so many. players over the last like two years and somehow they're still in this like well it's a blank slate phase which it's exciting because you've got the quarterback answer but it's also just like man

how much money have the Titans given out over the last like three years and and for what so far to this point i i still support a good chunk of it because i think that i was so firmly in favor of what they did even like before they got cam when it was with will levis it's like okay how are you supposed to evaluate any of this stuff without some sort of infrastructure in place. So I don't say that to be mean to the Titans, really. It's just, it's funny that we're still here. Like, they're still in this phase of team building, even though they've been spending a lot of money to try to get out of it. That's always fun when you try to solve all these problems, then you solve none of them and you have to do it all over again. The other bit of news I wanted

to hit at the top of the show today, Malik Willis and just the Malik Willis sweepstakes and what that might look like here in the early part of Free Agency. Jordan Schultz reported earlier this week that looks like Malik Willis is going to be getting upwards of $30 million a year. We'll see about that. But I think that the overall, and it's beyond just one report. John Eric Sullivan, who's the new GM of the Dolphins, at his, I think it was on pro football talk or even during his media availability this week, quote was, any team that is potentially in a needy quarterback situation, if they tell you they're not talking about Malik Willis,

that would be a lie. So there obviously is going to be a market for his services. And Derek, not to take away from Malik, Willis, who I think all of us when we watched him play in the back half of last year, you watch him in that Chicago game, you watch him in the Ravens game. I think the logical conclusion for a lot of folks was, this is a starting quarterback in the NFL. He deserves an opportunity to do that.

So not to diminish that because I do think that's true. At the same time, the idea that there is this rabid market from Malik Willis, I think says as much about the other avenues and options at quarterback this spring as it does about the viability of Malik Willis. The $30 million says more about the desperation than it does about Malik Willis. Like this to me, what Malikoulis has shown where it's a half dozen of pretty exciting games, you really like the tools, he's still young, clearly got better in his second stock, which I think like showing some development is a nice thing if you're trying to invest in a young quarterback. But that to me is like in a more normal quarterback market, potentially somebody who signs for $15 million a year. And it's like kind of still a competition.

You're not really necessarily committing to him. But this is going to be an amount of money that if you bring him in, like, that is your starting quarterback. And you don't have any other options. We're going to throw Malik Willis. People are going to throw Malik Willis into the same bucket that we've seen with a lot of these kind of second chance quarterbacks over the last three or four years. Your Baker's, your Donald's. I know Malik Lewis is a third round pick, but he's a very talented player, right? Watching how fast – I was talking to somebody about this today.

Watching how fast the market for that archetype of player has changed over the last three years is insane. Baker Mayfield, who was the number one overall pick in the NFL draft, signed a one-year $4 million dollar conval. contract with the bucks. Yep. And then you've watched it climb, right? And so you have the one year was Donald. 10 million, right? It was like, yeah.

Yeah, I think, yeah, something like that. So one year, 10 million for Donald. Last year, it's one year 15 for Daniel Jones. But even the Justin Fields thing, Justin Fields being at 20, I think is a direct reflection of it working with Darnold. And now, because it has worked again with some of these guys, Daniel Jones, Donald again,

now the second chance quarterback contract market is 30 million. million dollars a year. So the fact that it's been, and I know there's nuances and differences in the situations, but essentially we're eight-xing what the comeback quarterback market was from three years ago is incredible. I was going to say when you said, we'll see about that. I wanted to ask you, like, do you not think he's going to hit it? I mean, we'll see how many teams are willing to go to a certain press. Because I know there are teams, I talked to a couple of people this week. They're like, I know this team likes them. It's just going to be a matter of what price they're willing to do it at. Because we can talk about some of the situations and I think what the walkaway price would be.

So in your mind, as you're thinking about Malik Willis, the other quarterback options, and the teams that need quarterbacks, who do you think could justifiably pay $30 million from Malik Willis? Because that team is harder to find for me. Like when you break it down and look across the landscape, it does get harder to find a suitor. Let me think about this. That's the thing for that amount of money. And if I'm going to spend, if I'm going to go into that tier spending it that amount of money, amount of money, I would rather pursue Kyla Murray. And I know that it'll be a little bit more expensive, but there's so much more proof of

concept that that is a good NFL player than there is with Malik Willis. And maybe Malik Willis is a really good NFL quarterback, but at least with Kyleor Murray, like we have seen it before. And Murray is more akin to the Sam Darnolds, the Baker Mayfields, where it's like extremely talented top five pick, maybe just had some sort of falling out of his team, maybe had some sort of injury that kind of stumbled him a little bit. Now maybe he can revive it. That's not even really what Malik Willis is.

It's such a different thing. Here's my concern with this. So the three teams that I listed out, like that I think you could look at and be like, all right, I can understand why they would be involved in Malik Will's. Jets, Cardinals, Browns, okay? Okay. I was going to say Cardinals for sure. And then the other, obviously, Miami has explicitly said that we might be interested,

but here's the Miami problem. It's a money issue, right? Like, is Miami going to have the financial flexibility to sign a guy to a $30 million a year deal? The other three teams can't, right? Like, the Cardinals can find the money. The Jets obviously have the money. And if you look at the Brown situation, my assumption is they're going to restructure Watson's deal.

They can restructure Denzel Awards deal. They could have upwards of like $40-ish million this year, and I think they'll probably be fine pushing money into future years because right now they have like $100 million in 2027 space. And so if they want to free it up and spend, they can't. When you're spending $30 million on Malik Willis, though, for the Jets, the Cardinals and the Browns, my problem with that sort of price tag is,

if it's one year, if it's 15 a year and it doesn't work out, you move on next year, you're back in the quarter. market. If you're spending $30 million a year, you're likely devoting an amount of resources and eating enough into your 2027 cap where if you are one of the worst teams in the league in, you're picking in the top five. Now you're stealing one year of the rookie quarterback contract window if you have to draft one. I just, I'm not sure how I feel about that overall calculus if I'm one of these teams. To go back to your point about the second chance quarterback market changing, these used to be one-year flyers. And I feel like now, at least in the case of Malik Willis,

this has to be like a two-year commitment to see if he can be your guy. But I would argue, and we don't have to get too deep into it because we did it like last week. But if you were to trade for Kyler Murray, that's a two-year commitment probably before you can get away from Kyler. It is because the guarantees that will click into place with his deal early in the league year, it is a two-year commitment. So what's the difference other than I guess you have more proof of concept that Kyler Murray is a pretty good NFL quarterback. be good. Let me play devil's advocate. You've also seen where the limitations of Kyleor Murray are,

and you can maybe talk yourself into Malik Willis not having those same limitations. I disagree. The limitations and the bottom end of Kyler Murray is as good or better than anything Malik Willis has shown so far. Yeah. And so I just like, I'm, I would rather. Your Kyler Murray Love is still in there. He's still in there.

I'm not going to let it go. I'm not going to let it go. He's a perfectly fine NFL way. And I don't want to get too bogged down in this because I think that we've seen teams, dead money is not necessarily a roadblock to moving on. Like, let's play this out hypothetically. Let's just say that in this draft there were two quarterbacks and the Jets were picking second overall.

Justin Fields is this year's version of the league willis when you look at the numbers. It was two for 40 last year. A good 30 bat was guaranteed. If the Jets were to cut Justin Fields this year, it'd be $22 million in dead money. If they were picking second overall and there was a worthwhile quarterback there, you walk away from that $22 million and you never think about it. So maybe that's going to be the same situation for a team if Malik Willis doesn't work out. But when that number starts creeping up and up and up, there is a consideration there.

Like there is an anvil financially that you'd have to deal with if this doesn't work out. Is there a team that you would like to see Malik Willis land with of the ones that I mentioned? Of the ones that you mentioned, I just think it's probably cleanest for the Cardinals. Like if you can move on from Kyler Murray, you have things in place there. You've got a left tackle that you feel pretty good about. Trey McBride's the man We'll see what happens with Marvin Harrison Jr. But like there's infrastructure there.

And so I think it's just like to be honest with you, it's hard for me to get excited about. And maybe this is like off base because it's always easier to clean up finances than I think we give it credit for. It's hard for me to get excited about the dolphins knowing what Tua's money is going to do to them. It's really hard to figure out what that's going to be. going to look like because I just don't with the with the Cardinals the Cardinals the Cardinals are in a spot where I'm looking at the numbers right now as you're talking if they they have they have to be so motivated to

trade him if they trade him before June 1st Arizona it's only seven it's 18 million dollars in dead money they save 34 against the cap even if they cut him post June 1st it's 47 million dollars in dead money they only get $5 million against the cap and if they cut him before June 1 it's a disaster. And so the hope has to be that because in the musical chairs quarterback situation this off season, there aren't that many attractive options, a team is willing to throw you a six for Kyler Murray and just say, you know what, we're willing to live with the fact that it's kind of a quagmire financially. If you're Arizona, with the dolphins, there's no good solution. It's like, because no one's trading for that contract. I think, and that's, I think the Cardinals

are the closest of the, of the teams that have a very obvious quarterback need. I think the Cardinals are closest to being a compelling team. Like they have the least amount of work to do. And you put Malik Willis into that situation with a top five, you know, picking top five in this year's draft all the way through. I could get pretty excited about that. That's pretty easy sell for me, especially if that includes a trade, Kyler going somewhere else.

And you sort of not only tidy that up, but free up the money. Hopefully that would come along with it. And is there a tackle that's worth taking at three if you're Arizona? offensive? Yeah. Worth? I don't know about worth. There's a guy you could, there are guys you could draft.

I think the name that I would say is Spencer Fano out of Utah. You'll see, you'll see a lot of people talk about him. I think Mel Kuyper or one of the big draft experts had him going in the top five. Like that's perfectly justifiable. It's not, he's not that caliber of offensive tackle where it's like slam dunk. We feel amazing about this. I think you'd probably feel a little disappointed about the value that you're getting there. But that's the story of this draft class.

It is not this blue chip filled top 10. And so take the best offensive tackle in the class. I don't think that would be the end of the world at all. All right, guys, before we move on, let's take our first quick break. So let's just play this out one step further because I'm curious how you'd feel about this. Let's say Malik Willisland is in Arizona. They manage to trade Kyle and Murray. They've got, with a couple more cuts,

90-ish million dollars in cap the base to play with. They draft a tackle in the top 10. They desperately need to right tackle. Jonah Williams is a free agent. Calvin Beecham is 58 years old. They still have Yelta Frohold. We have two guard needs. It's a good free agent class at guard.

They'll have the money. Let's say they add two new starters at guard. Frohol, Paris Johnson, right tackle, pass catchers, Malik Willis, Michael Fleur. You're selling me. I can start to buy it. I mean, I'll watch it.

I'm not upset about that. Same as last year. It is all dependent on like, how good can we make. make Marvin Harrison Jr. Like how good can we get him up to speed? Does that matter less because Michael Wilson is Randy Moss? Maybe, maybe?

I also, I do think the Michael Wilson thing is interesting because when he became Randy Moss, they used him like Randy Moss where it's like you're going to be our downfield guy, you're going to be running outside the numbers, you're going to be our deep contested guy, which they obviously wanted Marvin Harrison Jr. to be. But if the new staff comes in and is like, listen, Michael Wilson is clearly better at this, we're going to use him for that. Marvin Harrison Jr. is going to be. kind of our Z adjuster, an oversized version of that,

and that's just how we're going to run the offense. I can start to buy it a little bit. Man, I cannot believe it's February 26th, then I'm starting to talk myself into the fucking Arizona Cardinals again. Embrace it. Every now and then, a team disappoints us, but is not actually as bad as they looked, and I do think the Cardinals are kind of that team.

That's undeniably true. I like that. I like that take. I was talking to somebody yesterday, they could no longer call up guys from the practice squad because they had exhausted the amount of roster spots they used over the course of the year. That's how injured the team was last year. I mean, it's that, and it's important to remember that.

Like, this was a team that absolutely were they disappointing 100%. They bottomed out in large part because they suffered a rash of injuries that you just, the level to which you do not typically see in the NFL. This is a little bit off topic, but I was thinking about this the other day. Remember the Thursday night Seahawks Cardinals game? I do.

Yep. Just a fantastic Thursday night game. And like, the Seahawks won and they looked good, but I would have never guessed that was going to be a team that dominated the Super Bowl or the Cardinals would be one of the worst teams in the league. Like, it's crazy how much things change. Jumping off the Malik Willis stuff into the rest of the quarterback carousel here. We've talked a little bit about Kyle.

Obviously, we've talked to Alec Lewis this week about the Viking situation where Kyle would land. It sounds, you know, based on a lot of the rumblings that Minnesota is not going to be that assertive in the other quarterback option they bring it, that it's going to be. something where they kind of wave at the idea of competition, but in reality, there's a chance they roll with J.J. McCurthy again. There's a lot baked into why that might be the case. We can talk about that if you guys want to, but I also think that makes a guy like Kyler maybe a less likely answer for somebody like Minnesota. And so with Kyler specifically, that brings me to a place

where I'm like, where does he make sense? Right. If it's not a team like Minnesota, where would Kyler be the right answer? Well, you know, it's funny. And I listened, I'm even when I'm overseas, I'm always watching. I listen to the show that you did with Dan, with Dan, talking about like, oh, well, maybe, like, Michael Fleur is there now, like, between the contract and everything else, like, maybe that's their best option. Maybe Kyler stays in Arizona. And having been here for four days. So, like, I came to Indy with that on my mind. Like, well, maybe he'll just stay. And after four days here, I'm just like, it's become evident. That's not the case. I don't think that's happening, man. So my answer to that three days ago would have been maybe the boring reality is he just stays a cardinal.

But that doesn't sound realistic. And if that's not the case, I really don't know the answer. I mean, I would love to throw out Pittsburgh, but everybody's just resigned to that being Aaron Rogers. Maybe that's not true, but that's how it feels. It's kind of weird. I mean, looking at the quarterback depth charts right now, like, if you're trying to find a dance partner that makes a lot of sense, I really don't know who it would be. I don't know who it's because like the like the Browns. It's going to be really difficult.

And I also just wouldn't want to see Kyla Murray in a spot where like they have to refill literally all five starting offensive line spots like that. Just seems like a waste of everybody's time. And then the Jets almost are they probably make sense in terms of like who needs a quarterback who has the money and resources to do it. They make a lot of sense. And the offensive line actually I think is pretty solid and has some pieces. The issue is like Frank Reich with Kyler Murray seems like a weird fit. This is still a team that has like zero. offensive weapons and maybe they can address that in the draft and free agency and stuff.

But kind of until I see what the rest of the Jets roster looks like, I'm not sure how excited I can really get over that. But they realistically are probably the best spot because, like, Colts obviously, you know, they might need a quarterback, but they're, I don't think really have the resources to do all that. Miami's not going to be able to do it. It really is hard to find the spot unless you think Aaron Rogers is not going to come back and he's a steeler.

Let me ask you this. And I would go as far as to say this is an insulting idea because I fall along the same lines as you where for all of his flaws, I think Kyler Murray is a perfectly solid NFL quarterback. Does Kyler Murray have to wait for another chance to be a team starter? Like, is that not in the cards because of the league landscape? Well, I think that's going to depend on if he gets cut, then he can get signed to a backup contract. This is to me, like, what a team trade for the deal. And this is interesting.

So you look at the finances of it. And I think that you guys talking about the Kyler money versus the Malik Willis money, if it's going to be $30 million a year, is actually a good way to think about it. So I think everybody's so scared. of this $19.5 million-dollar-based salary that Kyler has in 2027, that becomes guaranteed three days into the league year. Well, that's all you'd be on the hook for. He has a roster bonus.

It's not that scary. Yes. It's just not. So it's the exact same thing we're talking about with Justin Fields. Justin Fields has $22 million in dead money if he gets cut this year. Kyle would be 19 and a half if it gets cut after this year. If you're at the Jets or a team like that, it's just like, who gives a shit? The worst Kyler Murray is better than the best Justin Fields has ever been.

Like, you're not worried about that kind of money. when it comes to something like that. Maybe the Jets are in a position where, again, you don't want to eat 22 for Fields this year and 19 for Kyle or next year. You're starting to rob Peter to pay Paul. But again, if you look at the Justin Fields contract, and it's no worse than what you'd have to take on for Kyle or Murray, and we've seen Kyle Murray play at a much higher level.

It's impossible to know until we know what happens. But, like, I will, I'll be buying stock in Kyler's next stop. Like, I'm not ready to give up on him as a viable NFL. starter at all. Let me look at Miami's finances and just see what we're talking about here. If he does get cut, it starts to open up the avenue for a lot of other teams, because I do think he might be more willing to sign for something a little bit less like what teams would be on the hook for now.

But if it's a trade, it's kind of it's hard to find a spot other than New York or maybe Pittsburgh. And even then, doesn't Mike McCarthy and Tyler Murray sound weird? You see that I'm glad Robert, I'm glad Robert's doing this. So if he's, Robert's looking at the Tua contract. And well, and the Dolphins salary cap. It's criminal. So if you think the Kyler Murray contract is scary, go look at the Dolphins' finances and get back to me.

It's so bad. I'm just playing around with over the cap because you guys are talking. If he, even if he's a post-June 1 cut, even if you do that, you still lose $11 million in cap space this year. There's nothing. That's, there's no nice way out of this. It's really rough. It's really rough. And I'm playing with it right now.

So right now, as it currently stands. even without the two a contract, the Dolphins have $74 million in debt money on their books. What? Yes. It's the Tyree Kill, Jalen Ramsey, Toronto Armstead. When you do what the Dolphins did from a draft pick cap, from a draft capital perspective and leveraging your finances in the way they did

when you're trying to maximize these windows, the end is going to be fucking messy. And that's exactly where the dolphins sit right now. And that's why I think they're a hard team to figure out. I don't really blame them for the record. And the same thing we were saying about the Titans. I understand why it happens. They tried.

And they failed spectacularly, but it's better than not trying at all, in my opinion. The other guy in Arizona that I actually, the Jets, I think, could go one or two different ways. And we were talking about this when we were just discussing big offseason questions, where it's like, okay, do you want a potential multi-year quarterback solution? Or do you just want like, eh, we'll figure it out for a year and then we'll actually address it in 2027? Jacobi Perciet for the Jets is like, I think it legitimately makes sense. You have the history with Frank Reich, and what I like about Jacobi Percette is that he is, my concern when you hand-wave your quarterback position for a year is that you get so bad

that you can't evaluate the rest of the roster, Jacobi Perciad will throw the shit out of the ball for 17 games. Sure will. He will give you enough where I think you can stay afloat and be your real team. And so that's why that one for me, it's like, you're a rebuilding team, notoriously good dude, good locker room guy, like, make it a few million bucks a year, throw them a late round draft pick to see how it goes. Like, Jacoby percent with the Jets, I do think there's a lot of boxes that checks.

If I'm the Vikings, like, if you're not going to be an aggressive at the quarterback market and trying to just get a guy who can kind of compete, I would want a Jacoby percent. Because I think that's a good benchmark for J.J. McCarthy. Like, if you can't be better than Jacoby percent, we've got a problem here. Are we okay with the Vikings not being at least somewhat aggressive about their quarterback issue? Here's why I think this is potentially okay. What is the best case scenario if you go out and you get aggressive with a guy like Kyle or Murray? Do you think that you're a Super Bowl team with Kyle or Murray's quarterback?

I think so. I don't think, I'm not like picking them to win the NFC, but I can at least see a viable path. Okay. We can be the two seed in the NFC. we can win 13 games, and if Kyler gets hot, three times in a row, we actually have a shot. I know that it's dangerous to look at it this way. It is. But there's definitely a way they win eight games and it blows up.

We're a year removed from Darnold doing what he'd like a month. We're a month removed from Donald doing it. We're a year removed from the Darnold deal and everybody being like. Is Cowell Murray as good as Sam Darnold? Yes. That sounds like I think he has the potential to be as good as Sam Darnold. Yeah, like it sounds silly considering everything Sam just did, but we didn't feel that way about Sam a year ago either.

Sam Donald played like two good games from November and on. He played the game of his life. And he played the game of his life in the NFC title game, to be fair. But that's kind of the point is that a quarterback of this caliber, if he can just get hot at the right time, the rest of the Vikings roster right now is good enough for that. If Sam Darnold is worth taking that chance on, and it's obviously a little bit different because Sam was a free agent

and you don't have to potentially trade for him. but like I'll take that chance on Kyler Murray too absolutely like I think it could be similarly rewarding especially on a team that's already got a really nice roster I would feel worse it's a good argument I would hear that argument I would feel worse having this roster and not giving ourselves the best chance even if it blows up and we nuke ourselves in two years I would feel really bad about not giving this roster the best chance hoping hoping that it's better than awful again it just doesn't sit right with me Like considering we had 10 games of what J.J. McCarthy was, and that's not to say that he can't be a better player, but just hoping that it won't be as bad as it was last time. That doesn't sit well with me when Justin Jefferson has already been in the league for six years.

That argument, the Justin Jefferson part of this to me, is the most compelling reason. Because it's like that's the issue is that it's, I think there are two different arguments that you could make about this. I think that trying to scramble to get the most out of this aging roster and saying, like, we have to do everything we can to make sure 2026 is maximize because the rest of the roster is aging. I think you can make mistakes thinking that way. Yes. But at the same time, I think that rolling with the exact same, if you roll with JJ again and it's the same sort of issues again, what that does to Justin Jefferson, the erosion that happens like with the culture and everything else in the building, that to me is even. if it can be misguided to have that level of urgency to maximize this year, the downside of allowing it to play out again and having this further rot with everything else, I think that's

also real. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's the problem here. That is the thing. Like there's more likely than not neither of these options work out for them being like a serious Super Bowl contender. But like I, to me, like at least going after a guy like Kylo-Murray, not running it back with J.J. McCarthy, it like replenishes the buy-in, if that makes a sense and I think that that is kind of important, especially when we're, Kevin O'Connell's been there a long time. Like at this point in like a coach's tenure that you kind of need to find ways to be able to do that unless you already have the elite quarterback there to kind of facilitate that. And they obviously don't. And so I think this is kind of a good way to do that. I have one more suggestion for you.

Let's hear it. Anthony Richardson. Oh, I'm willing to listen. Because as of yesterday, as of yesterday, reports, both sides have come to a place where they're going to allow him to seek a trade. And so I don't know. Is that actually the most? exciting, compelling option for the Vikings. Do you need me to pull up the clip of Kevin O'Connell telling Anthony Richardson to remember that he's a bad MFer? No, it's funny because I was not bought in on Anthony Richardson the prospect because of the small amount of games and the inconsistency.

And I thought that all got carried away. But once you're here and the price to acquire him is not going to be high. and again if it's an accomplished offensive head coach like Kevin O'Connell with a roster that can put him in good positions I don't want to get too far out ahead of myself but like even if I didn't love him as a prospect that's very intriguing to me the flip side of that though is and I mean Anthony Richardson is so freakishly talented but like isn't isn't that what you have already you're like oh this guy's talented and could be good but he hasn't shown it yet I mean we already we already got him on the roster I will say it makes a competition more interesting to me than with a veteran because this is like a true like even terms competition where it's two young guys who have not played a lot of football together. They're both kind of talented.

I've never put it together. I've often been injured and I think it would be fun to like see which of those two kind of comes out on top. My thing with Anthony Richardson, everyone with the draft and with the Rams having an extra first round pick are like, oh, they're going to spend it on a quarterback. They need these contingency plans. Why not trade for an Anthony Richardson? Yeah. I'm kind of into that one. That's where I'm looking at it from.

That's actually, I actually do like that. Like they're in a position where if they just want to like take the dice roll, and if he sucks, he sucks, who cares? A couple other quarterback names to throw out. Matt Jones, just based on everybody I've talked to this week, it's just like, it's going to be too pricey to get Mac Jones out of San Francisco. Really? And it's, I mean, it sounds like we're talking like a second round pick and change because of how cheapie is.

And I think that's part of it is that like when you cut the combination of young and cost controlled is just his price is going to be at a place where I don't know if teams are going to be willing to pay it even if they're desperate. in the Mac Jones mold like well how many years ago was it where like everyone was like how many kirk's are you remember remember like that version of quarterback discourse mac jones is like somewhere on the kirk timeline and so kirk also released where kirk ends up again we just talked about is there a winding spot for kailer murray like is is does kirk want to go to cleveland i sincerely doubt that like is it currently stands if you look at it it's not going to be minnesota which obviously

comes with a million different complications, and that's why I think it might not happen. It kind of seems like Kirk might be destined for, like, very high-end, we're protecting ourselves backup status in this cycle, even if it is a down year. Contender backup? Yes, right? Like, doesn't that make sense? Yeah. Kirk is the type of quarterback the Colts should have tried to have behind Daniel Jones in the

back half of last season. I just want to say one more time. It's frustrating for me that I don't want to. act like it's this cure-all that would solve your quarterback issues for the next decade. But there are intriguing options out there for the Pittsburgh Steelers. But it doesn't sound like they're interested in any of it. And maybe that's wrong. Maybe we'll see.

Maybe they've got more up their sleeve than just reuniting with Aaron Rogers. But it doesn't seem like it. Exactly. And like that's disappointing to me if like, you know, you could do things to to upgrade the talent there, get younger, get more talented. give yourself some upside and it doesn't sound like they're interested. My approach to the Aaron Rogers in Pittsburgh situation, and Omar Khan came out this week and said there's no deadline,

but he doesn't foresee it going as late as it did last year. I'm going to spend no time or energy talking or thinking about this until we have clarity whether it is or isn't Aaron Rogers. Yes, that's fair. If it's not, tell me. If it is, tell me. Until then, I'm not going to spend a single second thinking about it. Especially now that we've already seen what it looks like,

at least last year when he was kind of doing this dance, it was like, you know, maybe we'll see what he looks like at a new team. We've already seen when he looks like with the Steelers. I don't really care anymore. We're going to take our second break here and then come back and chat a little non-quarterback Combine News. Dave, we're at the Combine, so it's time to talk about Dallas Cowboys contract drama. Oh, man.

The Cowboys are tagging George Pickens. Jerry did his, are you happy or sad that you no longer have to do the Jerry Combine Gaggle? A little bit of both. Yeah, it's the only proper response. It's, it's fun, and it's a whole spectacle, but... Where does he do it? So, on the bus?

Jerry has his bus driven up to Indy, and usually on... Actually, I don't think he's done it yet for the record. Oh, yeah, he hasn't. I don't believe so. He usually will have the bus pull up next to the stadium on Saturday afternoon, and he'll come down from drills and sit on there for, you know, for 50, 60 minutes. How many seats are on the bus? the bus can seat there's a couch there's a couple of like captain's chairs uh like it can see it can see like

seven guys so it'll be like there's two newspapers in dallas the team website will be there uh john our guy with the athletic will be there as well so yeah it's like seven reporters that get to go on well why it matters less is because let let's say for a lot of these teams right like per just like to peek behind the curtain for people who don't really understand some of this stuff like so a lot of teams will do this they will have off the record, either conversations or even dinners, with the local media. And it's hugely valuable

because you don't really get that sort of time during the season. There are some teams, Dallas was like this, Jason Garrett used to do this, where he would do an off-the-record session with the porters weekly, right? And so that's not really normal. So for a lot of press cores,

when you go to the combine, having that hour of off-the-record conversation with the head coach or the general manager is as valuable as anything you're going to do all a year. one of the reasons that it's not quite as important what Jerry is, he talks every day. Yes. So the scarcity doesn't really matter with Jerry Jones. Jerry hasn't done his annual Combine thing, but we still have quotes from him talking about what he's going to do.

Exactly right. He talks, we don't need to get inside baseball with beat coverage. But when I covered the Cowboys, every time you would come to something like this, other beat writers would inevitably be like, oh, you're so lucky. Your general manager talks all the time. and you just have all this content. And I was like, yeah, he talks all the time. It sucks. I want to cover a team where the general manager disappears for three months and I can take some

vacation. Good Lord. He's talking constantly. That's why I assumed he had already done it because he came out and told reporters that they're going to restructure all these contracts. And so they tagged George Pickens, $28 million. Even after tagging him, what Jerry said was it sounds like they're going to restructure DAC, they're going to restructure CD and maybe Tyler Smith.

So if you look at the numbers financially for Dallas, if they restructure all those guys and they cut Kenny Clark, that's $35 million in cap space. And so that gives you at least some financial flexibility, even with some of those bigger deals on the books and the Pickens tag, to try to add a couple pieces to your defense here. And that's what has to happen. My inkling from being here, I don't think they want to cut Kenny,

but they got to get that number down one way or the other. It's just something. It's not that he's a bad player. It's exactly right. And so when you're looking at it, when you can free up $21 million, dollars in cash base to move on from him, that's two starters. And so you can't justify that level of, and especially when you already have OSA and

you already have Quinn Williams on the roster, being able, if you cut Kenny Clark, that's a linebacker and a safety. So it's just about opportunity cost. It has nothing to do with the quality of Kenny Clark's play. I think they're going to try to, like, get something renegotiated with him. That's also an option. And if they can't, then, yeah, do what you have to do. But, I mean, we did this on the biggest questions of the offseason show.

like it's all it's all there for the cowboys like once you process the micah parsons trade and whether you agree with it or not what's done is done the resources are there they have all the money they could possibly want to do whatever it is they think they need to they have two first round picks and i'll just steal your line about not caring what the stealers do show me i don't care yeah do something do anything and it's already frustrating because it sounds like we're going to do the Pickens dance for at least a little while. Hopefully it doesn't extend into the summer, but based on their history,

I can't say I'm optimistic. Here's the difference with me in Dallas and Pittsburgh. From a player acquisition standpoint, 100% show me. Until it happens, like, I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking or thinking about it. The fact that the Cowboys moved on from the static kind of stayed world of Mike McCarthy and the Steelers are stepping into it, that's what creates the intrigue around the Cowboys for me. And that's why I will be more excited about them than is probably just,

justified. I agree with you. The thing is, I've done this before. And I know, like, we love the Christian Parker hire. The Cowboys staff is, it's young and energetic now. It's been in a very, very long time. I agree with that. It still requires the people in charge of the purse strings changing the way that they've approached off-seasons for 12 years at this point. The fact that they seem willing to restructure all these deals, though, is like, that's a level of financial aggression that they have not shown in a while. I want to believe. Like, let's be clear.

David's like, we need to cross the finish line before I'm even thinking about the race. I want to believe. Broken beaten down, man. He's seen too much. Because we're going to do this. We're going to get all excited. Like, oh, they freed up all this money. They're going to get aggressive.

They have these draft picks. And then free agency, like the legal tampering. We're able to do deals on like Monday. We'll be live for five hours, buddy. I can't wait. You'd be ready for that. And I can't wait for. Monday afternoon to roll around and like it's just crickets on the Cowboys front while the first tier of free agents fly off the board.

No, they're going to sign a $4 million linebacker and that'll be it. That's okay to me. Like I don't need them to be shopping at the top of the market. Like they're a team that they need a safety. They need linebackers. They need edge depth. If they solve that with a lot of mid-tier free agents and two first-round draft picks, that's an acceptable solution to me. You are right.

And no, I don't need them to do anything insane. But all right, let me refrates. It won't be Monday. I need them to have done some things by like Wednesday after them. That's fine. And they don't do that. They usually... That's true.

It's May before they do that stuff. They roll out of bed 12 days after free agency starts and they're like, all right, we're ready to do some shopping. Just start rubbing their hands together. Cool. Can I interest you in a lightly used Kenneth Murray, Jr.? One thing I want to float to you guys. I'm just curious how you think about this. Tagging Pickens.

Let's just say hypothetically, you get a call from a wide receiver needy team. We'll give you a one and a three for George Pickens. Do you do that if you're Dallas? How good are the receivers this year? A one in this year's draft? Yeah, I'm not. That's a nice price, but I don't think I'm interested. There are good receivers in this draft.

There are always going to be good receivers with the way the game is now. I think Dane's top 100 has 17 of them. So, like, there's talent, but I think I, George Pickens is 25, by the way. He's not yet 25. He turns 25 sometime in March, I think. I think I'll just take the 25-year-old who just did what he did. And that's what frustrates me with where the Cowboys currently are. And like that's, people have talked about that.

I saw there have been like proposed trades of like Max Crosby and a two for George Pickens and a one. So something like that, I think is that that's maybe even more creative than just another first round pick thrown out of the pile. I just, the offense was already like one of the best in. football. It really was. And to know that you have that and to know that Dack Prescott is closer to the end of his prime than the beginning at this point, I just, I'd rather try to maximize that window with this collection of talent. You have two first round picks if you do your job well. And Dallas hasn't been drafting quite as well as their reputation suggests the last like two or three years. But if they hit on these picks, like you could be you could be cooking with gas really quickly. And I think

I'd rather just not get too cute because I was that impressed by what their offense was. All right. So let's do this one. Would you use one of those first round picks to trades for Max Crosby? If it was a first round pick and change. But I can keep George Pickens. Yes. Yes.

Yes. If I get to keep pickings and I'm only giving up one of the ones, yes, I would do that. Max Crosby right now, and this is why it's a little bit different than the Micah Contract would have been in large part because the Michael contract, if you had spent a ton of cash on that, deal last year. The Max Crosby deal, he's obviously on an extension. It's $30 million in base salary in 2026, but the cash just would not be nearly to the same level. And if you wanted to restructure that deal to give you some flexibility against the cap, you could. And so I'm sure some people would be like, well, you just didn't do the Micah thing. Why would you pay Max Crosby? There are enough differences and nuances to that where I could understand wanting to go down that road. I mean, if you

come out of all of this and the upshot is you have... a couple more big-time draft selections than you would have. And Quinn and Williams and Max Crosby are under contract with the Cowboys. And George Pickens is here. It's way too soon to declare winners and losers. But like if that was the upshot, I would, I'd feel pretty solid about it. Anybody else on the George, on the Max Crosby horizon that you've been thinking about when it comes to team fits? I threw out the Rams because they have all the picks.

And I think that's crazy. There are too many as Rushers stop. Where is he playing? He's better than everyone they have except Jared Verse. What do you mean? Where is he playing? What are the snap counts on that team? My God.

How much math have you done, Scott, about figuring out if the bears can fit Max Crosby into the cap? Yeah. It's tough because I was talking about this yesterday on Chicago Radio, but the bears right now, as it currently stands, have the fifth highest number allocated to edge rushers against the cap of any team in the league. with Dio Bangboat. That's really, that's not a great place to be considering how they rush the fast or less. They probably have the worst like dollar per sack in the NFL.

It's a tough situation. So I would I love to see Max Crosby and the Battle of the Bears? Yes, but I just think when you think about the resource allocation and everything else, just hard to pull that off. And so we'll see. The other team I keep coming back to is I just, you said San Francisco. San Francisco. Yeah.

Like I just think if you look at can I make it work money wise? I think they can't. I think they can. And then so the other bit of San Francisco news, it's worth talking about the Trent Williams stuff, where it seems like they're trying to get his number down. I think Barnwell did a really good job of this. Like there are some levers that they can pull

and there's some leverage ploys that San Francisco has to try to convince him to push that down. So that's just something to keep an eye on is like what happens overall with the Trent Williams money situation with the Niners as well. I do like, and the Cowboys are always going to dominate those sorts of conversations because of who they are. but outside like the handful of teams where I really feel like it makes a lot of sense for Max Crosby.

It's just, it's not as big as I would have guessed. It's just a big price. Yeah, exactly. It's just a big price. I think that there, and honestly, I think that fewer teams have the appetite for those sorts of deals when you just consider like the history of them and the downside of them, all of it. The other guy who has been in a ton of trade conversations, and I think this is one where it is worth paying a lot of attention to it for a bunch of different reasons is A.J. Brown, right?

So it seems like in talking to folks here, it's very possible that we're headed for a divorce with AJ Brown and the Eagles. And this has more to do with AJ Brown's desire to move on than the Eagles thinking that they'd be a better football team without AJ Brown. But talking to people last night, it just seems like we've kind of reached the end of the road with this thing with like him wanting to be there when you think about the quality of the quarterback play, all the turnover on offense, et cetera. The price for AJ Brown, where Max Crosby would be a one in change, right? I think you think about positionally, the age, all of that kind of stuff. I think AJ Brown for like a two and some scraps is possible. So AJ Brown right now, he's 20, he turns 29 this summer. He turns 29 this summer with receivers.

The age curve is a little bit different. Especially one like him. Yes. It's like pure explosiveness. And power, right? It's been hard on his body. It reminds me of like Des Bryant where like when it goes, it's gone. Yeah.

So I think that's absolutely. consideration. I'm sorry. That hurt my feelings. I'm sorry. I spent a lot time looking at and studying this. And I love AJ. I don't want AJ to like go over a cliff like that. I spent a lot of time looking at and studying this over the last day because it's impossible to know the finances for the Philadelphia Eagles. He has a minimum base salary, which every guy in the Eagles does. 27.5 million dollar option bonus for AJ Brown this year. So if you are the acquiring team, you have one of two options. You can not execute the option. You can pay him $27 million, or like $28 million against the cap this year, and then you have flexibility beyond $2026, or you can execute the option bonus in the same way the

Eagles would. And if you want to, and you want to play the financial game the exact same way the Eagles were, where you just take on the contract and you execute the option bonuses in the same way Philadelphia would have. You can get A.J. Brown for miniscule cap hits over the next two years. You're pushing into future years. So when I look at that and I think about the financial levers needs to be pulled, the price that it would require, and the team that needs a player like this, it's Buffalo. It has to be. It's just it's they don't have a lot of flexibility. They need this exact skill set. I think based on through the great fun stuff, he'd be open to playing there or might want to play there.

That's the one where on June 2nd, if I'm the bills, I just think if it's on the table, it's a move that you almost have to make. do you think i mean actually how he's probably the perfect guy for that because typically when we're when you're talking about trades of that magnitude the team trading the player wants to pick before the draft but like the eagles are so good at stockpiling things and getting ahead of things they also the money just doesn't make sense like it the trading him before june first like what the dead money you'd have to take on it's it's it's almost a non-starter but trading him after june 1 it's absolutely something you could do i do wonder how that affects the price though like it's sure to and sure two and change makes sense, but if you're not getting them in this year's draft.

Until the next draft. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, two and changes will eat maybe the price you'd have to go up for our normal team. I'm sure with the Eagles, there would be 20 picks involved, and it'll be future years and it'll be this and it'll be that. But I think when you think about the finances, the price tag, everything else, if the Eagles decide they are going to move on, I still just come back to Buffalo being the team

that makes the most sense. Anything else from this week that we have not hit that you guys feel like has been at front of mind for you over the last 72 hours or something. To me, some of the play calling news, I think is kind of interesting in terms of who's taking it on. I think the Sean Payton giving it up to Davis Webb one is interesting insofar as like Sean Payton has never done that, but it's not that interesting.

And so far is the only way to keep him on the staff was to basically let him call play. So it's like I get how we arrive here. Dave Canal is giving it up to Brad Edzick is more interesting to me because I don't think that that's really like a point of contention for, like I mean, but maybe they were worried about Brad Edzick moving on, I think it's interesting that Canales, like, even talked about, like, I want to be able to do more of the head coaching job and not just call plays, which I totally get. Like, he got the job as a play caller, but I think if you're going to grow in this league and be, you know, do this until you're 55, 60 years old, you probably do want to be able to get better at a little bit of overseeing and things. And so I think it's kind of interesting that he's already wanting to take this step and give it to Idzik, who obviously he was familiar with and worked with in Tampa Bay.

And Seattle. I mean, those guys have known each other forever. Forever. They go way, way back, Brad and Dave do. And I think this is something that they were dancing around last year. I think that during the summer, I think that there were some initial conversations about whether that's something they'd want to eventually explore. They didn't end up doing it last season. I think Brett, I think it's called it a little bit during the preseason. And so I think that the wheels were in motion about this a while ago. This is not something that I think they just came to at the end of this season. It's not a snap decision. No, no, it is not. I think it's something that they had been kicking around back and forth. and they just decided to let Canales call it for this year.

But when I saw that, it was not surprising based on just conversations I had had when I was there for training camp last year. That's what I would say. It's not a reactionary thing. Okay. Yeah. And I didn't imagine necessarily to be a reactionary thing. Like, oh, my God, like we've got to panic and do something. I just found it interesting that usually when the head coach is your play call, they don't give it up.

Like the offensive guys. Sometimes we've seen more that defensive guys are a little bit more willing to give it up. But the offensive guys are usually like, this is my baby. I'm going to do this. I'm not going to give this up. Giving up play calling is like usually the last thing you do before you get fired or if you're like trying to keep that from being the next story. And that's why it's interesting because I don't really imagine that being the case with Dave

Canales. No, I don't get that vibe. You just like scoot it into the playoffs in a way that you shouldn't have played. It's interesting. I'd be curious to talk to him about this. But it's funny. I was talking to somebody about this today where obviously the pathway to head coaching opportunities is extremely different when you are a play calling head coach and when you're

a non-play calling head coach. So let's just look at this cycle, for example. You had non-play-calling offensive coordinators get head coaching jobs. It was the Cardinals job, right? It's just the types of jobs. And think about the guys who, you know, Todd Monkin is in a different sort of situation, right? Todd's a little bit older, all of that. But the other guys who were interviewing for the Brown's head coaching job that were

finalists for that job, they were offensive assistants who were not play callers. So if you are not a play-calling offensive coordinator, you can get head coaching opportunities, you're just getting head coaching opportunities that are probably a wrong or two further down that you want them to. And so some head coaches who are play callers in order to give guys pathways to better head coaching jobs, they're like, hey, you can go be a play caller somewhere else. I won't block that. If they're going to give you the opportunity, I'll let you do it. It almost seems like Canalis has just done it in-house, where it's like, in order to give you a better opportunity, I'm just going to let you do it here rather than you taking it somewhere else.

I don't think that was imminent, but I think that's just kind of a nod to a guy to like maybe give him a better chance as he moves forward in his career. And that was my big takeaway similarly to the Davis Webb news. Not that it's surprising, but it was just further confirmation of what we were guessing based on how much interest he was getting in the hiring cycle. Because I think like the average NFL fan, I mean, Davis Webb was he was drafted highly as a quarterback. I think people were aware of him. but the amount of interest that he drew, I think, opened a lot of people's eyes. And then for Sean Payton to give him play calling, it just further cements for me like, okay, this guy, if he's not a rock star yet, he's about to be a rock star.

And like, I would imagine, I hesitate to compare him to your guy, Ben. But he's going to be that sort of candidate, though. Like now, like that's the only way you become that sort of candidate is if you're calling place. Absolutely. And that's part of it. The allure you build up is different. when you're the play car. As recently, like as soon as, assuming, you know,

the Broncos look like they're going to be very good, assuming everything stays on track this season. And, you know, Ben obviously had multiple offers and decided to stay in Detroit for the extra year. So over the next year or two, I really feel like Davis Webb is going to have the opportunity to rise to that level of candidate where teams are just throwing,

throwing the checkbook at him when he's ready to take a head coaching job. The only difference, and there are several different. but I think the most important difference is. The Panthers one, and this is outside looking at and no inside information. That one seems very, like, clean and amicable. The Broncos one seems messy. That's what makes it interesting to me is like it is great if a head coach wants to do that, but I would have guessed you'd have to pry play calling out of Sean Payton's cold dead hands.

Whether, and based on my understanding, and this has been reported that he was considering doing it even in season, it seems like he was okay seating it, but you had to fire an offensive coordinator to get to this place. So it just seems like overall the dynamics at play with the Denver situation. Again, just a tiny bit messier than what we're talking about with Carolina. All right. That is all we've got for today. The next show on this feed will be coming to you guys on Monday.

We've got a little combine recap. We're doing an early release for building the business. Beast next week. I can't wait. Dane is, Dane has been ping ponging around this building for the last four days getting hand measurements. He's learning about like which high school guys transferred to. And we're going to have it all. It's going to be awesome. And as we're sitting here recording, I can see the drills that started. So he's, Dane's probably like, uh, his guy, Caleb Bix. Oh, oh, Caleb. Oh, man. Dane is watching Caleb Bens rounds around the 40 right now. I'm just salivating.

Dane is like somewhere on that 40 line. Wait, this is actually riveting TV. Caleb Banks is the man. All right, so let's see how this goes. 6.6 and a quarter, 327. Caleb Banks, defensive lineman from Florida. Oh, false start. Well, that's just a terrible cup podcast.

Now we've got to cut it off. So Monday, Combine Recap, Dave and Dane. Tuesday, we're going to be doing a free agency-themed mailbag on the show. So another mailbag. We're going to be doing them weekly during the off season, other than select weeks like free agency week, but we love doing them. We're happy to be doing them. This one's going to be free agency themed.

So if you're listening to this on Friday, start sending in your questions. Athletic Football Show at gmail.com. We would love to hear from you. For now, that's all we got. I appreciate you guys listening. Dave and Dan, I'll talk to you on Monday.