The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The messages teams sent in the 2025 NFL Draft, with Field Yates

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Teams can lie to us before the draft. They can obfuscate. They can mislead. Once the draft arrives, though, they have to tell the truth. So what messages did teams send once they finally had to put their money where their mouth is? Robert Mays and Field Yates from ESPN discuss the messages teams sent in the 2025 NFL Draft on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown Bills Steelers A quick Giants tangent Raiders Cardinals Patriots 49ers Dolphins Titans PackersHost: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenWith: Field YatesExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...⁠⁠⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠Follow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dane on Bluesky: @fieldyates.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Field on X: @FieldYatesTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. The 2025 draft is in the books, and we are here to wrap up our analysis of that draft class. I do a show every year. I've written this piece in some form going all the way back to the ringer. I mean, it's probably been like a decade since I've done this. I've always enjoyed doing it. When we're going into the draft, teams can tell you whatever they want about their plans, about their roster. There's a lot of cloak and dagger stuff. There's a lot of subterfuge. After the draft happens, there's nowhere. to hide. We know what teams think about themselves, about certain position groups, about certain talent levels, about areas they needed to address. And so each year, I always enjoy looking at the draft and trying to decipher the messages that teams sent us because of their draft process. Last year, we did that show with Field Yates from ESPN, who now is a full-time draft analyst there or doing the draft more than he was previously, I guess I would say. Field wears a ton of hats at ESPN. He's a very talented man. But Field joined us for that show last year. year and he's back to do it again with us this year. It's a show I look forward to every year.

I've been really looking forward to doing this again with him. So let's get to that discussion, that exercise, what messages teams sent us in the 2025 draft with Field Yates right now. There are some shows that you do that you like so much that you just have to run them back the next year. And so last year after the 2024 draft, the first show we did out of that weekend was me and Field Yates from ESPN discussing the messages that teams sent to us with their draft classes. I always like doing this because before the draft, teams can lie. They can lie pretty easily. After the draft, it's a little bit harder.

Their intentions are clear. So here to help me run through the same exercise we did that this time last year, it is Field Yates from ESPN. So good to have you back, buddy. How you feeling after a very long weekend? Feeling great. You know, it's funny. I was joking with you over text.

You were like, man, you must be white from a handful of days in Green Bay. And I responded, you know, I came back to two children. So I actually, when I go to Green Bay or anywhere that's not my location at Connecticut, I actually feel like I get some rest. So despite the nonstop activity for five days and the incredibly unhealthy eating habits that I adopted during the draft, we are feeling good right now. So it was an awesome week. It always is. But the city of Green Bay, which I had not, believe it or not, previously been to. Oh, wow.

This was my first experience. So I got the Wisconsin charm and really appreciated the host city. the people were like it was almost disarming how kind they all were, but it was sincere as well. So I had a blast out there and I love the draft. I was trying to figure out what was going on as the draft was taking place. I feel much better about where things actually went after studying what picks were made by which team went for the past, let's call it 48 hours. Yeah, the trades are what's hard to keep track up in real time. Like where the picks went, what teams picked up. We'll talk about a couple teams here where part of their strategy and part of the message they sent, I think, was them picking up more picks to kind of a tone for what had happened in previous years.

In real time, it's hard to keep track of all of that stuff. But after you get a couple of days to kind of sit back and think about it, it all becomes a little bit clearer. How many cheese curds did you eat? Well, the problem with cheese curds, that they're available everywhere, right? Oh, yeah, of course. I noted this. I tweeted this because I was a flying home. And the cheese carts was perhaps the not most noteworthy part of this story.

but I had a 7 o'clock flight back to Connecticut on Sunday morning. It was connecting through Detroit or something. And for those that haven't been to GriePay Airport, it's extremely small, small enough that they have one intercom system that can access the entire airport. So the individual, the woman who was patrolling the intercom that morning at 5.14 a.m. announced, as a heads up,

our ice cream machine is now working over at Gate B2. Cheese curds are also available. So as if I hadn't stuffed my face with enough cheese curds during the week, there were just a couple more on the way out. I just love Green Bay Airport. Like the offerings include not just your typical stuff, right? You have a newsstand where you can get books and candy and magazines and whatever, stuff to drink on the way out.

And there's a little cafe that has breakfast sandwiches and bagels and muffins. But at that same cafe, you can buy spotted cow 12 packs to walk away with. You can buy blocks of cheese to walk away with. walk away with. As a matter of fact, one of my colleagues noted to me that he actually brought a block of cheese home for his kids for the week ahead. I've never been to Green Bay Airport. I've been to Green Bay probably 20 times, 25 times, but obviously I always drive just because it's close to home. But that sounds right. It's funny because people talk about how they see someone drinking like a beer or having a cocktail at 6 a.m. and that's concerning to them. Based on my personal history,

that's, I understand how that can happen with someone. If you're eating a block of cheese or you're ordering ice cream at 515 in the morning, that actually might be a little bit more concerning to me than like you starting off your day in Green Bay with a Miller High Life at 6 a.m. Yeah, I was kind of wondering like when the announcement was finished, whether there was going to be a mad dash of people. Because again, with one terminal, you can see most of the activity. If they felt the need to say something, then somebody was clearly upset that it wasn't

operating at 515 in the morning. Last thing on Green Bay Airport, just to give a testament or sort of to reconfirm just how incredibly kind and trusting these people are, when I first got to the airport, this cafe was open, which is where I went and grabbed my coffee and breakfast sandwich to start the day. But I wanted to go back and get another bottle of water for the flight ahead. And there was a newsstand directly across from the cafe. And I noticed that it was much quieter over there. So I walked over there thinking I could get out quick. with Little Line. And then I got to the counter to pay for the water bottle that I was buying. And it said, please make sure that you pay across the way at the cafe.

Thinking to myself, like, not like most people, I mean, I'm sure most people do pay for it. But I don't know, like airports can bring across a unique cross section of a mayor of people. Like, is it possible that some are not obeying the honor system and just walking away with what would otherwise be a $4.50 bottle of water? It's possible. I guess not in Green Bay, Wisconsin, which I deeply appreciate. The last thing I want to mention before we get into the football side of this, coming out of the weekend, everyone does winners and losers from the draft, right? You and I, we have to feed the content beast.

We've done this for long enough. It's a worthwhile exercise, easy to sell. I get it. As I've read these winners and losers posts, the one thing that hasn't been included often enough in the winner's side of things is the hair game that Field Yates brought to the draft in 2025. It was a topic of conversation during our live show, only good things.

I just want you to know. We're sitting there being like, man, he is absolutely bringing it right now. The fact that you managed to get it to this point right in time for the draft is just fantastic work by you. Well, so I may have screwed up things. I've had a hat on this morning since I got out of the shower. And now I feel,

and so it's not totally as, it's not in peak form right now. So maybe I'll take the hat off. I see these nice red marks. YouTube, do your thing, have some fun. Wip me in the comments sections. But after those kind words, I'm not turning back. I'm going hatless with red marks for the rest of this show.

If that's how you feel about the hair. Yeah, I haven't cut it since Christmas. And as you know, as you can attest, the minute I got married, I became a 49% stakeholder in all decisions, which means that my wife, whatever she wants, she wants, right? So she's been a big fan of it to the point that she actually said to me, while she was watching the draft, she texted me. And she goes, just as a heads up, the length of your hair right now is the shortest it will ever be again.

Wow. So like we're not, people keep asking me like, hey, drafts over, it's a time to clean it up. No, like we're just getting started as far as the boss, Chapin Yates is concerned. I'm really impressed by that. I have a similar conversation, set of conversations with my wife about my hair. I, she hates when I shave my face. Like when I trim my beard too low, she's like, I'm not a fan of that. So that's part of the reason I don't ever shave.

I wouldn't anyway because I just haven't shaved my face since like 2005. But the hair, the thing I've always wanted to do, not at least recently because I'm just tired of it. Part of me just wants to buzz it off. And she just is not having it. She's like absolutely not. So it's always a conversation. And for the most part, the way that I want to do things, she's on board with it. So there's not a lot of tension there.

But the fact that she likes it that long, man, that's going to be a lot of upkeep for you for the next like 50 years of your life. I know. it, man. A lot of people keep asking, like, what do you do? And I'm like, well, I learn on the internet that apparently you buy this sea salt spray. So I have this massive, and I'm talking like, gigantic. I'm not sure I'm doing a good job of describing it with my hands right now, a bottle of sea salt spray in my bathroom. I think it'll like, I think it's going to last me for about a year, but I also don't know what it's like to upkeep hair that's even longer than this current version. So I might be, I might actually, I don't ever use Amazon subscriptions where like it just sends every

X number of weeks, I might have my first subscription lined up if this sea salt spray goes faster than I am currently budgeting for it to go. Now I'm so much more invested in the journey now than I would have been otherwise knowing that that's her stance on it. Now I'm just going to be watching you on TV, just seeing what the progress looks like. It's nothing if not a talking point, that much I've learned. Let's dig into this. You wanted to start, again, talking about the messages that teams sent during the draft.

And I was like doing it this way because you know, you can talk about the quality of a draft right afterwards. But even if people I respect you, Dane, the quality of a draft based on how you guys see it is often going to be based on whatever your pre-draft rankings were. If there's somebody that you liked in the top 75 and he goes 120, if you're going to like what that team did. So there's always a little bit of subjectivity there. I think with an exercise like this, it's a little bit easier to just say, I think this is kind of clearly what they're trying to tell us with the players that they drafted. I've been doing this sort of thing, either in print or on podcast for probably 10ish years. And I always have enjoyed. doing it. So the first team that you wanted to mention is a team with the general manager that subtly might have sent some messages with the draft that they had and then not so subtly sent some messages with a radio spot that he had yesterday. Yeah, Bill's GM, Brandon Bean, was fiery on

Monday morning when he was calling into the local WGR show. And he basically, you know, he was, ticked off that it sounds like, and I didn't hear the preceding audio prior to Bean's comments, but it sounds like for those that don't know exactly how radio interviews work, a lot of of times the producer will call you a minute or two before the segment's supposed to start because they want to have a buffer in case you don't pick up. They don't want to call you the second you're expected to be on the air in case you don't pick up your phone, whatever. So Bean must have been on there for a couple of minutes, just waiting, you know, probably either it sounds like the end of a prior segment, sometimes it's a commercial break, whatever it might

have been. But he caught audio from people. And basically they're essentially given the bills some flag for not drafting a wide receiver. And Bean drew a parallel to 2018 when people were ripping him for trading up to draft Josh Allen, bypassing Josh Rosen, who went a few picks later in the infamous 2018 draft class of quarterbacks, five in the first round, two of which have worked out better than probably anybody could have imagined in Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. I'd say so. Yep, a couple others, you know, still figuring it out. And then Sam Darnold has kind of resurrected himself, same with Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen.

I don't know what Josh is doing right now, but it's not playing in the NFL. But anyways, he was saying like, hey, listen, our dad. defense was the issue. He noted, last year, we scored at least 30 points in eight straight games. He noted that they scored the most total points of any team in the NFL last year, including the Philadelphia Eagles, who, of course, won the Super Bowl this past season. So Bean is basically saying, like, hey, defense was the issue very clearly, which is, you know, he's doing it very matter of factly. I'm sure the defense didn't love hearing that, but perhaps they were inspired by it, meaning the defensive players. But the team was certainly putting

its money where its mouth is because their first five picks in the NFL draft were all defensive players. It started with Max Hirsten, the corner out of Kentucky at 30th overall, continued into day two with T.J. Sanders and Landon Jackson, a defensive tackle, an edge rusher. They actually drafted Harrison's Kentucky teammate, Dan Walker in the fourth round. So they hit that defensive front, just that defense in general, very, very hard. And one of the things about you're talking about how we rank these guys, I call it vertically, right? It's one. to, you know, in the case of Dane, it's like, you know, one to 3,000 and 42. For me, it's a more, like, you know, I published 200.

It's more like, I think I was, I think my final number of players that I graded that stayed in the draft was like 358 or something. So, um, not quite on the level of the beast, but still, uh, I do look at these things vertically, whereas for NFL teams, I encourage people to think of it more horizontally, right? It's Maxed Harrison at 30 with our cornerback needs as opposed to somebody else and how he fits within our system as opposed to, and I'm just using these two names because they were the next two players off the board. Jahad Campbell to the Philadelphia Eagles and Josh Simmons to the Kansas City Chiefs at 31 and 32. And if you look back at Harrison's film, we all know about the 40 time, fastest player in the draft, 428, excellent excellent speed, great ball skills as well. He led the SEC and interceptions two years ago.

But to me, the most important factor here, 82.2% of his cover snaps in college were zone. And that's what Buffalo does, right? They are going to lean on the Sean McDermott principles that have existed for basically 20 years, season in and season out. So you need these instinctive zone corners that can make plays on balls when they're thrown their way. And Harrison really fits that. So yeah, maybe the off is what I have considered, inconceivable for Buffalo to draft a wide receiver?

No. but I really felt like going into the draft, like Corner was the most clear and obvious need as they started opposite of Christian Benford, and it feels like mission accomplished through the first five picks, all being defense. I'm 100% with you on this. And I'm sure that the fact that he was doing a radio interview

on Monday morning after the draft, after what the weekend had been like is kudos to Brandon B. And like I'd be turning down every single media request available to me at that point. I'm sure there's a little bit of that, right? You're just fried from the weekend. And then you hear that. you kind of go off a little bit. But looking at their roster,

corner to me was clearly the number one need on the entire team coming into the draft. They didn't have another outside corner on the roster that they could legitimately play. It was Dane Jackson and Trey White were the only two guys. So the way that they approached for the vibes, right? Exactly. Hopefully you can play, but if nothing else,

it's like the vibes are very high now because such a beloved player coming back. And Dane Jackson too, right? You're just bringing back two guys that you know, and those are purely depth pieces. By not bringing back Russell Douglas, that was to me the number one need they had coming in. And even if we go beyond that a little bit and you go second, third, fourth round, look at the edge room in the moment they drafted Landon Jackson. Joy Boas is only there for one year.

So you need a third edge rusher into 2026 and beyond. And Landon Jackson, I think very much fits the style player they like. He's a long, linear power. I think he totally makes sense as part of that rotation. But even beyond that, just the feel of the team by the end of last season. obviously Benford gets hurt in the playoff game so that's why the coverage is such an abomination. But when they had to dig into their cornerback depth in that game against Kansas City, it was an absolute nightmare.

That's why Kyriehilim is not on the team anymore. But beyond that, they needed to affect the quarterback better. I like Greg Rousseau as like a number two edge rusher potentially. I think Ed Oliver is a good player. But if you're not going to have like a true ace as part of that group, you got to keep taking shots to make sure that you have a deep enough rotation where you are consistently affected. the quarterback over the course of the game. And I also think on the receiver side of it, I know he's not like a sexy addition, but

if you look at what Josh Palmer gives them from a skill set perspective, compared with the other players that are in that room right now, the combination of Josh Palmer, Khalil Shakir, Keon Coleman, and the tight ends combined with James Cook, I actually like what that looks like with an overall group. Yeah, there's no true number one receiver as part of that, but the complexion of the receiver room makes a lot of sense. I think Josh Palmer gives them to an extent what they thought they were going to get when Amari Cooper was traded there last year.

And it's at a, you know, maybe not as big of a name, but it's at a reasonable price. So I don't mind how they went about it at all. And I think they're telling you, we think our defense was the problem, not what was happening on offense. I also understand sports talk radio. I also understand a city that has two professional franchises feels like on the list of GMs that deserve the benefit of the doubt. Brandon Bean's pretty close to the podium too, right?

So like, you know, none of them are perfect. They're all subject to criticism, but I feel like being probably more than your typical GM has earned the right to say, like, just trust my process here. Let's stick with some AFC North teams still looking to, or AFC teams still looking to breakthrough, and that's the Pittsburgh Steelers. They're my first one. I think the message they sent is this time quarterback desperation is only going to push us so far, right?

And that was kind of the interesting wrinkle to the Steelers quarterback question. heading into this draft is that we're only a couple years removed from them needing a quarterback in a draft class where there weren't any obvious quarterbacks. And they made the play for Kenny Pickett in the 20s and they're still paying for it. And so I was wondering coming into this, like, is Omar Khan going to sit there and say, why are we going to do this again? Why are we going to take a shot on a guy who's probably not worth it in this range of the draft just because we have to do it?

Isn't it easier to trade whatever mid-round pick we'd have to for, cousins or sign Aaron Rogers to whatever moderate deal we're going to. And then if we want to take a swing next year, we can't. I always thought that made the most sense as this class was concerned. And that's what they told us. I mean, they didn't draft a quarterback until the sixth round. And I'm sure that Steelers fans are feeling a little bit itchy and uneasy based on just a missing spot on the depth chart right now. If you look at it, it's Mason Rudolph and not much else. But I'm not surprised that the Steelers weren't willing to overextend themselves again because they're still dealing with the fall of the last time a draft looked like this,

and they felt the need to pull the trigger. My colleague Matt Miller noted this or something to this effect on Twitter, so forgive me, Matt, if I'm a little bit off on the exact point you were trying to make. But I think we've learned something in the past couple of drafts, maybe even few drafts, which is that clear and obvious starters will go very high at quarterback. Not clear, not obvious starters. better buckle up for a long wait. You look at the gap, once again, it was obviously in the first 40 picks.

We had three quarterbacks, Tyler Shuck being the third. Then we had Jalen Milrow late in the third round. And Milro might be like the lone exception to the statement that Matt sort of made. And he fits into that category of still being a mid-round pick because he's this extremely unique athlete who's still a long ways away as a quarterback. but like Shador Stainers wait until 144 in case you miss it, that happened. Will Howard going in the sixth round, Quinn Ywer's going in the seventh round.

So I started this sense of agony and angst from Steelers fans in the middle rounds. Like what are we doing here? And it's like if the team wasn't bullish on the player enough to take them at 21 and then not again at 83, like just wait. And they did so until the sixth round, I think. and we're just one Schaefter tweet away from this becoming reality.

I think the signs tell us that like Aaron Rogers, despite the peculiar path he's taken to eventually land this deal in Pittsburgh, feels like borderline faded complie, which maybe I'll rue saying that in the same sentence as Aaron Rogers deciding on his future. But if he does, as much as I think the Steelers' ceiling is still lower than it needs to be to satisfy the fan base, I actually think the Aaron Rogers plus Derek Harmon slash no other burned draft capital is a better path to the, you know, forcing the issue with a Jackson Darts and at 21 or Shador Sanders at some point in the draft and feeling like, hey, that'll be enough and we're not going to go right back down the Kenny Pickett path again. The Jackson Dard path is the Kenny Pickett path, right?

I mean, even if they're different players in terms of like what you're trying to do, over drafting a guy where you're having to squint a little bit, point in the draft it's a very similar outcome and beyond that how many when did you start doing this like full time well this is my second year in the full time seat but i've been doing the draft for uh in a smaller role for probably seven or eight years at the spn now and you and i both started like around the same time right i mean like it's been about 10th was my first NFL draft yeah and that's 2012 was my first year covering the league full time so now we're at like 13ish years how many quarterbacks picked outside. It'll get an old as shit, man. How many quarterbacks picked outside of the top two rounds have become long-term

starters in the NFL since 2012 when you started doing this? You can come on one hand. Yeah, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, I'm sure we're missing. Brock Purdy would be one now. But yeah, it's a very, very small number. Yeah, Russell Wilson. Yep. That's really it.

Yeah. It's a short list. It doesn't happen, right? And so this idea of, oh, man, we have to try to get a quarterback. We have to try to get a quarterback. it's likely not going to be something that's fruitful at the end of the road for you. You're probably going to find a guy that at best is going to be a long-term backup. Every once in a while it happens.

But even the guys that have been successful, like, Dax stepped into a phenomenal situation in Dallas when he started. Like that was the best offensive one in football. It was the best running game in football. He was allowed to come along at a really good pace. Russell Wilson was the exact same situation in Seattle. Brock Purdy gets dropped into the Death Star. I mean, well, in his first year as a starter,

like these situations where even these guys succeed are very specific. And so I know if you're a team without a clear path as starting quarterback, you want your team to take a chance on a guy. But the chances that, and that's why you can wait, that's why after the third round, it's like it doesn't really matter anymore when we take this guy because the hit rate is probably going to be the same. We might as well try to find defensive line depth like the Steelers did,

whatever, a little bit later in the draft. And so it's just tough. It's just history tells you that you're probably not going to find one of those guys outside of the first round, let alone outside of the top two rounds. Man, yeah, if they don't go early, it's a problem. And I liked the process, generally speaking, for the Giants in this draft class. Obviously, huge fan of Abdul-Carter, but there's been a lot of very, very positive commentary on the Giants weekend. And I think I agree with it to a degree, to a degree. but if this is like such a coup to land Jackson Dart at 25,

shouldn't you just have taken him at 3? Right? Like what is the message you are sending if, hey, like we would actually never consider him at 3, but we'll take him at 25. Doesn't that implicitly tell us? We think the kid has a chance to become a decent to pretty good quarterback, but we don't think he can become an excellent quarterback.

Because if you thought he could become an excellent quarterback, you're probably bypassing Abdul Carter and taking a quarterback at number three overall. I think I disagree with that. I don't disagree with that at all. I think that is a move. Desperation may be a little bit strong of a word,

but that is a move of increased urgency, is what I would say, right? We need to do this. I think that's why it happens. So in that vein, I just kind of understand it. So I don't even put a value judgment on it. It's like they were going to do it somewhere along the way. So I'd rather have Abdul Carter in the quarterback

than just the quarterback. So that's probably where I land. And then the other part of it where I just don't mind it at all. If you're going to do this, this is the fine path for me is what they gave up to do it. The fact that they didn't really have to give up, it's like, okay, if all in, if we're going to get the pass rusher at three, get a quarterback and only have to give a couple mid-round picks in order to do it. This to me is a good outcome for the giants, knowing they were probably going to have to overreach for a quarterback at some point in the process. Yeah, my takeaway was it was reasonable cost of doing business, but I'm not totally certain they've changed their bottom line out, look at quarterback.

I don't know that they have the answer long term on their roster right now, even after the addition of Jackson Dart. It's a bet on Brian David. Yep. I know I'd belabored this and I apologize for that. But here I am talking about something. It was not on the script here. Yeah.

Listen, we got a lot of stuff that we had to gloss over in real time and things that I'm still trying to like spend a little more time on. So whenever you want to do a little offshoot here, you feel free to do so. Your next team out in Las Vegas, first year regimes, always fun teams to pay attention to in an exercise like this. Because we don't know. We don't know what John Spitech at Pete Carroll want to be. So outside of free agency where they were pretty limited in their actions outside of trading for Gino Smith, this is one of the first set of decisions we get to see from those decision makers in Las Vegas. So what is the message you think the Raiders sent with their draft this weekend?

They believe they can develop players. And Ashton Gen Z is probably people are saying, well, they took the guy who's as ready made as any prospect in the entire draft. Let's look beyond the first day. So day two, they open up the proceedings with pick 37 and they end up making a couple of trades back, which gives them a bunch of swings. Later on in round two, they take Jack Besh, one of my favorite prospects. I had them inside my top 50 from TCU. So I really liked that pick.

But if you go further down the board, late in round two and then also late in round three, it took Darien Porter, a corner from Iowa State, 6'4-200 pounds, was a former wide receiver who basically has one year as a starting cornerback on his resume. But 6-2 or 6-3, excuse me, 200 pounds of the 4-340, and obviously very good ball skills because he was a wide receiver. It took Charles Grant offensive tackle out of William and Mary. Not many William and Mary products come into the NFL, and when they do, they probably need some seasoning. That is definitely the case with Charles Grant.

He is huge. It's got long arms, 10-plus-inch hands, has a big frame, but just really needs to fill it out. And then you go to day three, and two picks apart, they took Tommy Milott and Cam Miller from Montana State and North Dakota State. those two guys actually faced off in the FCS National Championship game and they combined for like a thousand yards of total offense. I love that. In college they were both excellent dual threat quarterbacks.

Malat is trying to follow and this has become sort of the low-hanging fruit, but it's the Edelman Path, the Julian Edelman Path college quarterback who can be something of a Swiss Army knife. He did some stuff pre-draft, return work, wide receiver work, etc. So ran well in the 40. I don't think he's quite as sudden as Edelman was, which is, that's a difficult bar to clear, given how quick Edelman was back in the day. But the Raiders are betting on him becoming something.

And then Kim Miller, who we do a sleeper show every year for quarterback specifically, and he was my pick, undersized, but extremely accurate. And I know this is one of those things that when people hear it, they probably feel like it's a bit of a football cliche. but those two guys fit into the category of ultimate competitors. So I liked the idea of Pete Carroll, who I don't know if he actually has this tattoo, but he might as well have compete tattooed somewhere on his body, compete and develop.

They're putting a lot of trust into their coaching staff. I'm pretty sure the slogan slandered all over the VMAC in Seattle for the last like 10 years. It says always compete. I literally think that's what like the number one slogan in that building. So not at all surprised. and he's trying to bring the same sort of vibes over here. We talked about the Jack Besh pick for like 12 minutes. Oh, did you?

And I just think that it's for this reason. When you look at their past catching group and just the skill position group in general, it's bizarre and not in a bad way. It's just like Jack Besh plus Brock Bowers plus Ashton Genti plus Jacoby Myers. It's just like, this is weird, but I'm kind of interested in seeing what it looks like with Chip Kelly.

So that's when I appreciated. I'm totally with you on the others. I like them just saying we need a ton of bites here based on what the roster looks like. Offensive line depth, not surprising. This is, I guess one of the lessons I'm learning here is I'm way more interested in the Raiders than I thought I was going to be.

But I can't wait to see how the offensive line shakes out. And I think one of the reasons that I'm paying so close of attention to it is now Ash and Genties back there. So the offensive line dictates one of the coolest picks in the draft. And so now you look at what they have. Caleb Rogers is probably going to play guard in the NFL after playing tackle in college. Dylan Garm is a free agent after this year. So, you know, how does that all shake out?

Is he maybe a 2025 bet for you? Charles Grant, same sort of deal. Like, I'll be curious to see what the right tackle battle looks like. Because I thought DJ Glaze had some nice flashes last year as a rookie, especially for a third round pick. But Colt Miller is a free agent after the year. So it just seems like they're putting in a lot of competition and a lot of contingency. into how they're building that offensive line group.

And should we be the least bit surprised that Pete Carroll's taking swings on high upside corners at this point? And again, another position group where I think Raiders Corner was quietly like one of the biggest needs coming into this draft period for any team. And the fact that they waited until the third round after slow playing it to such a degree in free agency and moving on from Jack Jones, all that stuff, that was a little bit surprising. But the fact that this was the sort of bet they made at the end of that.

process, I don't think should have snuck up on anybody. Yep. Fair enough. I agree on that. All right. Before we move on and get some more of these, let's take a quick break. My next one here is the Arizona Cardinals. A team we talked a lot about during our live draft shows. I mean, it's one of my favorite drafts that any team had just based on what they got in the first couple rounds. But I also just like the message they've spent or they've sent with essentially their entire offseason. The Cardinals last year, outside of the Minnesota Vikings, I think you can make a point

where the weirdest defense in the NFL in terms of how they wanted to play and all the shit that they were thrown against the wall. And I think the message that Moni Austin Ford, Jonathan Gannon, Nick Rawlis have sent us with how they were approached this offseason is we can be weird on defense.

We would just prefer not to be. Prefer not to be quite as weird. So going out and doing what they did, I mean, you look at it. They added like six front sets. players, six front players to the defense in the last two months. Callais Campbell, Dalvin Tomlinson,

Josh Sweat, and then they come back in the draft with Walter Nolan in the first round, Jordan Birch in the third round, and then they get Cody Simon, the linebacker from Ohio State in the fourth round, was a very productive pass rusher at Ohio State. I think fits what they want to do. Those linebackers are a threat to blitz at any point.

So I'm sure we'll see some of the weirdness, but I think going out and getting so many large building blocks, literally and figuratively, for that defensive line and just trying to remake that group, remake that group, I think that they are telling us, we want to have a little bit more talent on that side of the ball because we've tried to skate by on like weird schematic quirks, and that's only going to get us so far. You mentioned earlier how we like, when we're doing our draft assessment, sometimes it's, you know, which team landed pick 70, you know, my player 73 on my board at pick 120.

or something. And that is true. But I also really like when teams are kind of like right in line with guys on my board after, let's call it, pick 50 because the variance really, really grows beyond top 50 or so. And Cody Simon, I think I had like 112 and they took him like 113 or whatever, whatever the number was. We were like two or three spots apart. He was one of my favorite prospects in the draft relative to where I expected him to go.

An elite communicator. He kind of connected everything. Ohio State did last year. He dug them out of the doldrums after that Oregon game, which really was like an inflection point for what would be, listen, we're all thinking about it now as this dominant, you know, national championship game season, but it was on the brinks there for a moment. They just feel like they have so much more convention to their defense, as you described. We didn't even mention, by the way, because I know you were talking about the front, but like, unless Will Johnson's knee is about to spontaneously combusts, getting him at 47 or 48,

whenever it was, 46 to 48 range. Like to me, it's just way too good of business to ignore. I know the elite speed is not there, but I really didn't think it impacted his film over the past two and a half seasons. I'm considering this a half season this past year. He was in the green room. I know the green room is not indicative of where guys are going to go,

but the NFL is gauging player value from teams as they make these invitations. I felt, I truly felt for Will, who had to wait through the entirety of the first round, but such a reasonable value, even if it doesn't work out. Like if he three years from now is just not healthy enough to play, like that sucks. But if he comes close to what his capacity is, we could be talking about a legit like five to eight year starting corner. You got at 47 at a position that just this offseason had a guy signed a deal with new money average of $30 million per year.

Like to me, just way too solid of business. for Arizona to not get a big thumbs up on the Will Johnson pick. If they had taken him at 16, would you have blinked? I had him 13 in my final mock going to Miami. And I was like, you know, if he doesn't go there, maybe it was going to be either Arizona at 16 or Tampa at 19. Now, I definitely, you know, we all had heard some of the speculation on the knee in the pre-draft process. But I talked to a handful of different people. And the temperature on it was different.

Some were concerned. And others say, hey, in a different, draft class, it might bother me. But, you know, like how many blue-chip guys are there in the 2025 draft class? And as a result of that, it's hard to ding a guy too much if, you know, we're pretty comfortable, pretty comfortable. I mean, not totally comfortable, pretty comfortable with where it's at. One of the things I've just become really attuned to is I think about defensive front specifically. And this kind of brings me back to the point we're making about Buffalo. When you watch a team, I want to be able to feel that group over the course of the game. I want to be able to feel their impact.

Sometimes that's splashy play. Sometimes that's Sacks. Sometimes that's TFL's. But also it's quieter stuff than that. Like you feel the pocket condensing. You just feel how uncomfortable the quarterback is over the course of the game. And as I look at units that the way they existed on March 1st and the way that they exist now, I think you can make a really serious argument that no team will feel different,

more different on one side of the ball heading into 2025 than they felt at the end of 2024 than the Arizona Cardinals defense base in the players that they added. And there's some speculation, right? You have to build in some projection with some of these guys, but like Walter Nolan landing with Callais Campbell and Dalvin Tomlinson, just little tiny things about the entire complexion of that group. It's just easy for me to get excited. There were times where you were talking about feeling, I agree with that.

There were also times where I felt like Arizona down the stretch punched a bit above their weight defensively. And that's a good thing. But you don't want to be at a weight where you have to punch above it to be. be a good defense if that makes sense too, right? Exactly. Especially if you're like trying to move beyond, the Cardinals have been a curiosity, right,

for the last couple years. They've been the sort of team that people like me get excited about because they're doing weird shit. Let's move beyond a curiosity to a team that can actually make some noise. And on defense, I think they've done that. The caveat, though, is they did nothing on offense the whole offseason. Like if I'm Drew petting right now, I'm at least a little bit frustrated at the way that the front office approached this spring.

Because you look at it, their biggest an offensive investment in the draft, they didn't draft an offensive player, essentially the entire draft until the sixth round. They drafted Hayden Connor, who's into your offensive lineman in the sixth round. It's the first thing they did in the draft. Their biggest offensive investment this offseason was Jacoby Percette for $6.3 million a year. So the guy that you're paying. to not play is the biggest investment. Yeah.

Yes. Other than that, the second biggest one is Kelvin Beecham on a one-year $4 million deal swing tackle contract. Those are the investments the Cardinals made on offense. I was a big fan of their draft a year ago. So I think that if you got Monty Austin for it in like a quiet moment, maybe there is a chance that those, like, their feeling is we're going to get better return from some of our guys last year. They played some.

Like, you know, we saw a little bit of Trey Benson last year, but James Connor is just like man of steel up until that late season injury. Orson get more of him and Isaiah Adams and a couple of the other guys that we drafted last year, by the way, also Darius Robinson in the first round,

who's going to play a much more pronounced role in that defensive front. Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's like you got your guys already. Now it's up to you to develop them, but it's always a risk there that you're going to see different results from that side of the ball. It gets your next one here.

A team you are very familiar with. The New England Patriots had what has been pretty much a universally celebrated draft. It's a very fun draft, the pieces that they had. What do you think is the message that the Patriots sent with what they did this weekend? Yeah, the message is Drake May is really talented, but no quarterback can do it on his own. So let's invest in him and continue to invest in him. The Patriots had a relatively passive start to free agency on the offensive side of the

ball. Now, things look a little bit in front. feel a bit different after the signing of Stefan Diggs, which was at least a few weeks into free agency. And that was a splash, assuming he's ready early on in the season. But the Patriot did not mess around. The first four picks were all, the first four picks, which were all on days one and two, were all on offense.

They were all players inside my top 100, which I get it. There's only 102 total selections. but I think they actually might have been four guys inside my top like 88. So solid value I thought across the board. And, you know, this is going to be a blend of guys that impact the game right away, which will be obviously Will Campbell. But like, there's a chance Jared Wilson, who only is a one-year starter at Georgia, is more of a 20-26 investment versus a 2025 invest.

But that's okay. And on top of that, as you know, watching the Patriots last year, Every yard, every point that they scored last year was earned. It was grinded out. Every once in a while, you just need a player who can do something on his own that takes a tremendous weight off of the shoulders of everybody else. And Travion Henderson is that kind of running back. He was, other than Ashton Genti, probably the most explosive back in this entire class. Ohio State did a masterful job last year.

making him at his best or putting him at his best because they didn't ride him for 25 carries a game. The Patriots, I think, need to be and can be judicious about how they use him this year because they have Ramandre Stevenson to be the thunder to Hayd Henderson's Lightning. But every once in a while, you just want to be able to push the easy button on offense. And the Patriots, I think, have a much more credible chance to do that with their investments on days one and two in the draft. There's no doubt about that. It's really easy to get behind what they. did. Even if Jerry Wilson is a 2026 bet, they moved down to get him, and I believe they picked up like a third round pick next year as part of that process. And so now you kind of get two picks in

26 if you're pushing him to next year. The Garrett Bradbury contract is legitimately a, if we had to start him today, we could sort of contract. And it allows you a lot of flexibility. The only position where they didn't do that was left tackle, but I don't mind how they played it. If you're sitting at, if you're the Texans, right? If you're the Texans coming into this draft, You need to sign Cam Robinson because there are a million different ways the draft could go. And you have no idea if one of those tackles will be there. If you're the Patriots front office, you kind of know how the first three picks are going to go. You're going to be in a spot where you can just draft a guy and plug him in to be your day one starter.

Why waste $10 million in free agency on a stopgap tackle? So I was fine with that, right? And then everything else, I love Kyle Williams. I just think that you talk about easy buttons, like he's going to be. open. You can get him the ball in space. He's a good run after catch player. You can design screens for him. So just all the different elements that they've added here, even if we're going to say that Jared Wilson takes a red shirt year, I really like it. It's just, it's similar to the Cardinals where I look at what they did. It's like, I guess I'm excited to watch

the Patriots offense this year. Like I'm actually really looking forward to this in a way that I certainly wasn't a week ago. So that that's about all I can say. And that's probably the biggest compliment I can give them based on what they did. Fair on that. We'll see what happens with that offense in general. Like Josh McDaniels coming in after doing his like, you know, we're going to hear a lot about it this offseason. I'm sure we're going to hear a lot about his college tour and all the things he tried to pick up and trying to evolve and things like that.

So I'll be curious even structurally what it looks like. Tell you what, here's a sneaky dynamic that the incomparable Mike Reese pointed out to me and online as well at ESPN.com. The Patriots coach, you know, for many of the Belichick disciples, they've kind of always worked with other Belichick disciples. Yeah. It's basically Mike Vrable's staff or staffs from prior stops and Josh McDaniels at the top, right? It's Todd Downing and Ashton Grant and these coaches that are on the Patriot staffs now.

Like, those aren't Josh McDaniels guys, right? Those are guys that Mike Brayble brought in with Josh McDaniels kind of over the top. I'm not saying this is like, I'm stating this as a matter of fact. I'm not opining on it. It's just kind of an interesting dynamic that is not typical within the, NFL. Yeah, and even like, Troy Williams coming to be their defensive coordinator, like he's never done it before. There's a lot of questions, not in a bad way. I just think I'm curious to see what the final product looks like. So structurally, what are we trying to be

on both sides of the ball? And now the inputs player-wise on offense make me even more interested in what that final answer looks like. They actually have a credible, let's try it. They have a credible chance. That's the most important part. They're back on track. It'll take some time, but they're back on track. There's no doubt about that. They walked into last season with the worst supporting cast from a talent perspective in the NFL full stop. And so it's nice to be on the other side of that. My next one here, this is a very simple one. The Niners on defense based on what they did in this draft, run defense is back, baby.

Like the Niners are tired of not being a physical football team anymore. They finished in the bottom 10 and run defense success rate last year. And you could just feel the lack of oomf with that group over the last couple of years. And I think this is obviously a product of atrophy from the Trey Lance Trey. one of the spots you would find difference makers along the defensive line is in the first round. And this is a team that has not been shy about drafting guys at those spots over the years. And so you just connect the dots very easily. We were missing multiple first round picks.

We were missing multiple players along the defensive line because we don't have a lot of financial wiggle room. And now you're starting to feel the impact of that. And this is the first year in a while where they've had a full stable of picks. And they were not shy about saying this is where we're going to invest again. they draft Michael Williams in the first round. And yeah, I'm intrigued by his pass rush upside. I think there are splashes. You see it.

He's a very young player. But his biggest selling point right now is he's a decent run defender from day one. Like truly, you drop them in, you feel the length. And that's just not something they've had over the last couple years. And then they double dip with some big, big boys at defensive tackle in the second and fourth round with Alfred Collins and C.J. West. And so I get it where it's like, this is the area of the roster that needed the most attention. I still would have liked them to have done something on the offensive line that was more aggressive than what they've done because I feel like that's a group where you're just starting to see the holes a little bit.

But them really doubling down on making sure we're going to be a big physical football team up front in a way we haven't been over the last couple years is a path that I think the Niners kind of needed to take this off season. I agree with everything you said. I'm only going to make one points just for those that have sat there throughout the pre-draft process and wondered like, How is this guy, Michael Williams, with 14 career sacks, not this supercharged athlete like Shamar Stewart, going to be a top 11 pick? I think a lot of it can be attributed to where he played and how they played him. The most frequent alignment for Mikel Williams in 2024 was a 4-I for those who are uninitiated with defensive alignments.

That means he was on the inside shoulder of the offensive tackle, which is typically not a sweet spot for rushing the passer. It's mostly a position where you see guys who are doing. and work for somebody else, right? It's, hey, can I lock out my arms and allow the linebackers behind me to find their way to the football? He's not pinning his ears back and rushing from a wide nine. It was kind of conducive to exactly the sort of stat line that he had as opposed to eight or 10-sac seasons. On top of that, Georgia had a million guys who played a lot of snaps for them on defense. Several of them were drafted over the weekend because they're Georgia and they always have a lot

the defensive players strapped it. There were some moments with him where you see like the, just the arsenal moves that could develop over time. And that's why, again, he lands with Texas. You put him on. That's right. That's right. And there's, again, the second Texas game,

he had like a little cross chop, double, like a double two-hand swipe. And just, it was just like one of those moments where it was just like, oh, there it is. Like that he has that potentially in his bag and he's so young. And then the thing that, to me, was the biggest light bulb moment, maybe of the whole draft process,

was learning about players a little bit later was I watched him and I was like I wish he was more violent like he's a physical run defender but as a pass rusher I wish he was more violent like you see him coming around on stunts and like I want him to blow people up with a head start and then Dane was like oh he was hurt the whole year he had a shoulder injury the whole year and I'm sitting there like ah all right that makes perfect sense and so you start connecting the dots a little bit and you can really convince yourself that this is the type of bet that's worth making in the top 12 for a team like the nineers is a desperate and the needs a player like this. Totally. Yep.

You went with the AFC East last time with stick in the AFC East. I love this one because I think this is one of the clearest messages sent by any team. What do you think the Miami Dolphins told you over the weekend? We weren't tough and we better get tough. The dolphins obviously have somewhat of a floor or they have when they're healthy, right? They made the playoffs under Mike McDaniel. I believe they want nine and eight and then 10 and seven. two years as the head coach along with Tua.

When they play good teams, they don't win. And when they play physical teams, they don't win. And this draft, which, by the way, included just two picks in the first four rounds was, let's get a whole lot tougher. Kenneth Grant was, to me, I mean, he was at that bottom of the first round on my big board. I think it was 31st overall when he finished. So a relative reach, but I tell, we talked about it earlier, horizontal versus vertical stacking, right?

If you're the dolphins and you're like, if we don't get freaking tougher, we have no this year, then I'm not going to find too many defensive tackles who are better run stuffers than Kenneth Grant in this glass. He's 331 pounds of massive human. On top of that, Jonas Savinae, their second round pick, 37th overall, I believe it was. Yeah, that was the trade they made with the Raiders is if you see him up close and personal, like I remember seeing him at the senior bowl, which is my first in-person exposure. And I was like, those calves are the size of volleyball. He is huge. He's a huge, huge man who played guard, right, and left tackle in college. He'll end up playing guard, I believe, for the dolphins. Then you go to

later rounds, and fifth round picked Jordan Phillips. I know Dane talked, Dane was early on Jordan, nailed that one. No surprise again. And he is this violent. You were talking about Michael Williams and needed to be more violent against the run. He should go watch other Walter Nolan or Jordan Phillips tape, super low to the ground. He's background high school wrestler and it's one of those guys like it really, really shows up. Super low. He played a ton of nose tackle snap specifically for Maryland. He never had a sack in his college career,

but he played just a touch for Tennessee, his first season in college. Transfer goes to Maryland, plays for two seasons. Go back and watch the game against Iowa this past season. They have a center, Logan James, will be drafted pretty high next year. Those two went back and forth

for like just pure 60 minutes of run offense and run defense blitz. The dolphins needed to get a whole lot tougher. And I think they got a step closer to that goal with the draft this weekend. I'm totally with you on this. My only quibble is that they gave up a lot to move up for someone. Oh, boy. It's an aggressive trade.

And for a team that, for other teams, right, I think that paying a premium to make sure we're getting the playstyle we want and the evolution we need. I get that. Miami has so many holes. And they're a team that's devoid of cost control talent because of what they've done with draft picks over the last few years. I just didn't know if they were in a spot to be giving away mid-round picks based on the current state of the roster. It does just happen though, doesn't it? It does. The GM?

We thought that this was going on the hot seat. There's some urgency there and there's some urgency to be different. And you watch the dolphins and then the other team I would connect to this is the Vikings, where we have a run game that was a little bit hyper-specific and was a little bit too rigid. We weren't flexible enough and what we could do offensively. We're going to change that. So the dolphins go out, not only and get 7A in the second round, they get James Daniels in the second round. So now you're adding a little bit more size and physicality to your offensive line at two different spots,

the same way that the Vikings did with all three of their interior offensive line spots. It's almost that bit of enlightenment that the Rams had to come to after the 2022 season. I think that we're starting to see other teams pick up on stuff like that. It's like, yeah, we like to have our run game structured this way. We want to be able to do a few more things. we need to change the personnel in order to do that. And so I think you're seeing that with the dolphins a little bit. And the Kenneth Grant point is a great one.

I like Derek Harmon better. I just think if I were drafting an interior defense tackle would have been Harmon. But if you want this skill set specifically, I can understand getting there with Kenneth Grant because we talk about it. I can list them off. Patriots left tackle. I think Raiders Corner and the other one coming into this draft that was to me probably the biggest need, one of the top five in the entire league, was any defensive tackle

next to Zach Seeler, anyone. They didn't have any. It was Benito Jones. And so that needed to happen. And the fact that they landed on Kenneth Grant as that guy for exactly the reason that you said, give me the 330 pound dude, because that's the type of presence we need on this defense. Shouldn't shock anybody that that was the final decision for Miami.

All right, we got a few more of these, but before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break. I'm going to talk about a team that hasn't been talked about very, much, despite the fact that they had the number one pick in the draft. It seems we kind of glazed over that over the course of the weekend. The message I think the Titans sent is we know we screwed up over the last couple of years and we're sorry. If you look at what they did, on a bunch of different levels, I think this is true, right?

The quarterback thing, we screwed out. We miss judge the quarterback position over the last couple years. We're going to fix that. That was obvious. We knew they were going to do that. but even some of the other things that they did. So you look back over the last two years, the Titans haven't had a third round pick in either of the last two drafts,

last year and then coming into this year's draft. The third round pick they gave up in 2024 was part of the Will Levis trade. And then coming into this year's draft, they didn't have a fourth or third round pick because they traded for Legerius Sneed last year. And among all the things that the Titans did last off season, I think a lot of them were misguided. the amount of money they spent on free agents,

but it was positional resources. Like, do we need a third round pick and a contract extension for a luxurious need based on where we currently are as a team? Probably not. And so I think the overaggressiveness that we saw from them over the last couple years and them giving away picks,

you saw them atone for that a little bit, like them moving back in the second round and then picking up a third round pick as part of that and then getting an additional fourth round pick somewhere along the way. I think this was, we know that we need to be responsible based on where we are in the process right now, and we're going to do that.

And I think the positions they hit as part of that totally tracks, right? They needed an edge rusher. That was another huge need. I mean, Draymont Jones is fine, but going out and getting Oladija from UCLA, I think that I always knew they were going to go edge rusher in the second round somewhere. And then picking up additional picks, getting Kevin Winston in the third round, who hopefully can be an answer for you if Amani Hooker moves on. and free agency. They needed to bolster the depth there. But what they did in the fourth round,

with DK from Florida, Gunner Helm from Texas, and Ayaminar from Stanford, what I love about that is, they're such different players. And if you look at their past catching group, we need some way to help the quarterback we just drafted first overall. Maybe we don't know the best path to that based on the resources we have. We're just going to try to volume shoot here. We're going to give him a bunch of different skill sets and somehow some way. Hopefully on the other side with Calvin Ridley, this gives us a workable group of receivers also with Tyler Lockett in the mix now. Yeah, downfield instincts were really a strength of Cam Ward's game at Miami. One of the biggest areas of progression for him, for him was throwing the ball down the field and doing so not just accurately,

but doing so at the right time. The way that that was shown through was he had 12 touchdowns and zero picks on throws of 20 plus air yards last season at Miami. Like he was money. And I talk about this often. You know, he has this unique ability to escape pressure and do some of the Mahomes magic stuff, even if not at the Mahomes level. It's good to be able to get out of pressure. But you know, you know, I mean, I don't want to make this implicating Justin Fields.

But Justin has this ability to get out of pressure, but then sometimes get out of pressure only to make a bad decision at the end of it, right? Cam got out of pressure and then made a good decision so frequently at the end of those plays last year at Miami. Now, I'm not ignoring some of the early game, more on-time decision-making throws that Cam did not execute last year. He had to get himself out of the holes that he dug often last year at Miami, and that was part of the brilliance of him, was that sort of fourth-quarter clutch production factor that Cam brought to the table. but as he learns to play more on time, more within structure,

also understanding that when he does those special uncoachable things where a defense does all the things right, except for bringing the quarterback down, being able to make great decisions is the trait that takes that mobility to the next level. Yeah, and I love Gunter Helm as part of that overall calculus, right? Sure. It's like, as I'm looking for somebody just to find late in the down,

somebody that just can uncover three, four seconds into the play underneath. Like he's the sort of player that can potentially do that for you. And so I just, and they need that, right? Like, Chigakonkwo is the exact opposite of that at tight end. And so it's an offense that I'll be excited to watch. Like, I'll be excited to see what Brian Callahan can do with that group. And, you know, it's been a cliche over the last few days that Cam Ward is the least

talked about number one pick that we've had in forever. And that's for obvious reasons. But I really enjoyed studying him. He's one of those guys that, again, I come to it late and I sent a, I was a text of Derek Kassan the first night I watched him. I was like, he's weird, but he's good. And Derek's thing is he wants quarterbacks to be honorable players, like make honorable

choices. And that's exactly what Cam Ward is. And you mentioned the late in the down stuff. To me, it's just a product of him just being, he's got that steady heartbeat, man. Like, no matter what's happening, the game slows down for him in those moments. Even when he's like drifting in the pocket, it was funny that with the top two quarterbacks in this draft

or what we thought were the top two quarterbacks in this draft. There was both a little bit of drifting from each of them. With Chatur, you saw it as a product of discomfort or panic where he would start drifting. With Cam, it was one of those things where there was like a calm when he would drift in the pocket. And the rotational athlete that he is, it's why there was a little bit of Jordan Love in his game to me where even if he's drifting, his ability to be accurate while drifting because of what he looks like rotation. and his ability to get back on balance, even when it looks like he's kind of scattered or uncomfortable or scrambling in the pocket,

he's not. He's actually in a place where he's making the play he wants to make even if it looks like he's getting forced off of his spot. I think that's a really impressive trait to have as a quarterback. Yeah, this is sort of non-football, but I think it ties into it. I was in the green room on Thursday night with Laura Rutledge. We were holding down there for the ABC broadcast

and all the players that were invited, obviously, were there as well. Cam Ward was remarkably stoic. Like leading up to the pick, once he was picked. I mean, this kid was, he had a very, it was like, just the whole thing, like he was icy. He was just sort of there understanding what was happening, but not. He's just very even killed.

I was super impressed. There's a lot of things to be impressed by with Cam Ward, but the poise he showed, he's, it almost seems understated when you see him. He's just sort of, he's just kind of there. but then you think about it on the football field and you're like, that's what you want from a quarterback

in pressure cooker moments is that he's not rattled. So that part really impressed me about Cam Ward. Obviously there was a lot of discussion about quarterback interviews as part of this process. And one side of that is that every team I talk to that interviewed Cam Ward,

the final result and the feedback was essentially he's just made of the right stuff. Like a guy that's going to walk into your building and be the presence you need a quarterback to be, he is that sort of player. And again, we didn't get to a lot of that over the last couple months. But as you think about what Cam Ward is as a gamble or a prospect for the Tennessee Titans, I think that side of it is really, really important to come back to.

Agreed on that. So my last team, I finally have to go to the NFC. You had all agency teams. I didn't notice that. I know. I don't know why I went that direction. But the hometown Packers, and again, thanks to Green Bay for showing out this past week. The Packers last season were tied for the highest percentage of snaps in zone coverage in the entire NFL, 70.2% to be precise.

According to my buddy, the great Mike Clay's charting. And if anybody knows the background of Jeff Hathley, he is not a coach that wants to sit back in zone and just be patient. He wants to attack? And so my question coming into the draft was, do the Packers feel as though their corner deficiency is the biggest? issue or is their pass rush deficiency? Truth be told, they didn't attack either of them early in the process for the draft. They ended up going offense, offense, offense

with their first three picks, two receivers and the offensive tackle, Anthony Belton, Cadillac Belton. But they eventually ended up drafting two pass rushers on day three. And if memory serves, and I should, I probably should have this buttoned up. I don't think they end up taking a single corner

at all in the draft. And it tells you something that I think. It's like Michael Robinson in the seventh round. apologies to Micah. I've got to be tight ears than that. I'm looking at it right now. It's the only reason I know.

But they took Barron Sorrell and Colin Oliver from Texas and Oklahoma State in the fourth and fifth round, both pass rushers. And it reminded me of where I think most people would tell you they land in this debate. A good pass rush can cover up for an average secondary, more than a great secondary can cover up for an average pass rush, right? the Packers did sign Nate Hobbs and free agency this offseason,

but I would have argued they could have used multiple corners. They have an excellent safety duo. That being said, this team, I think, feels as though we've got to be able to rush. And if we do, we've got a chance to write some of the wrongs from last year and play the way that Jeff Hathley wants to play defense. Their defensive line and the improvements that will come in their defensive line in year two of a new system and now with a defensive line coach, to me, will drive. the success of the Packers defense over the next year, right?

So they came in last year and look at all the investments. I mean, you look at the debt chart right now. I'm staring at it. Roshan Gary, first round pick, top of market contract. Kenny Clark, first round pick, top of market contract. Devante Wyatt first round pick. Lucas Van Ness first round pick. And you saw Brian Goonkud salute to this a little bit when he was talking to reporters

before the draft. I think it was in owner's meetings where he kind of said, we kind of did it, right? Like we've kind of spent the resources there that we can afford to spend. And now it's just a matter of getting more out of that group. And he followed through on that. This approach in the draft is an indication that that's what they believe is the only path forward for them among that group. It's like, we just need to get better play out of those guys.

It's not about adding new players. We'll see how that works out. The old play better adjustment, right? Which is a thing, by the way. We should acknowledge that sometimes the best answer is the one that's sitting right beneath you. Well, when you've got a guy making $25 million a year on one side and you spent a top 15 pick on the other guy at the same spot.

It's like, can we really do this again? I get that. I get saying we need to try everything else, change out all the other component parts to try to get the most out of this group. The corner room specifically and the DB room, I'm so interested to see how it shakes out, right? Because Jair is still there? And is he going to get traded? Is he not going to get traded?

How does that change the calculus? How much does Nate Hobbs want to play inside versus outside? like Kishon Nixon kind of survived outside last year better than you thought he was going to. So my assumption here, and they've not surprising because these two position groups, I think, shares a little bit of DNA. The way they approach their offensive line and their secondary is essentially, we're going to get a bunch of guys and we're going to see how it shakes out. And I'm very curious on the defensive side of the ball to see how it shakes out.

Because last year, I don't know if they thought Javon board was going to be their nickel coming into the year and then eventually they kind of realize this is the best version of the defense. Well, if that was the realization, you signed a nickel corner in free agency. And so I just, I don't totally get the vision. And I think this is going to be something that is just going to be played out in training camp and we'll see what the final result is. Yeah, I think people assume that teams have like super specific plans all the time for every single player. Whereas, and I think of this with the Travis Hunter lens, like obviously the Jaguars have some idea in mind. of what they're going to do with him, right?

I think the biggest thing that I learned when I was at Colorado Pro Day talking to all the people that were there and asking them what they planned on doing with Travis Hunter or what they would plan on doing if they had them was like, okay, like I probably lean towards, let's say wide receiver. Some said cornerback. But like a lot of it's going to be, let's get the guy in the room, let's get him on the field, see what works, see how it goes,

and then we'll add or subtract to his plate depending on how things are going. So I think it's a fair point that you make. Some of it, like we don't need the solution. We need the ingredients before we can figure out how it's going to look. Especially at those two position groups because they're weak link systems, right? And so you're trying to figure out how can we build a group that has the strongest weak link and what does that outcome look like?

And I think the Packers have consistently approached it that way. I'm always wary of coaches that tell you exactly how it's going to go, right? And like on April 25th or even on August 1st where it's like, oh yeah, this is what. what this group is going to look like. You don't know. You don't know. And so the coaches that tell me they don't know, I actually have a little bit more respect for

because that's typically how it goes in this league. The last one for me, the Carolina Panthers, I think sent an interesting message in this draft. And that's, yeah, we know the defense was terrible, but offense and the quarterback are still king in this league. And so them doing what they did in the first two rounds, where they go out,

first three rounds, excuse me, Prince Lee is such a good prospect and such a fun player. I'd assume that they traded up for him in the second round, but he was the third round pick. So at eighth overall, they go get Tedroa McMillan, and you look at the roster, and even with the talent dearth on defense, the receiver group still needed a guy like this.

And the skill set is different than what Legat brings to the table. The one's going to be a free agent after the year. Like a real ace to build your passing game around, I still think was probably a need for this team coming in. And so seeing them take a swing for somebody like, Mill and where they did, shouldn't be surprising because this is a group, I think for the last two years, I've been impressed with this and I'm curious what you think. I think there's been a real level of intentionality to how they've built each of the last two offseason. It's last offseason,

they knew the defense was terrible. They knew it. And they just kind of said, we're going to take our medicine this year defensively because we need to get an answer on the quarterback. We need to build something for him that allows him to just function. And that's what they did with the offensive line spending and I do think that at the end of the day they succeeded in doing that. And I think this offseason, it was we know we need to keep doing what we're doing on offense at least a little bit and then take a couple swings on past rushers. And so to see them pair Scowarton with Humana me Ellen, I think is how it is. Hearing, having those two guys, their skill sets to me are so complimentary and so different.

I just like it when you combine it with now they have to Sean Warren. they have Bobby Brown, they have Pat Jones. They didn't go out and take huge massive swings on anybody on the defensive line, but it's just a group that's going to feel and play a lot different this year than it did last year, while also not letting the talent on offense atrophy and understanding you still need to keep growing on that side of the ball to help your young, hopefully ascending quarterback. Yeah, totally. And I think he is ascending.

I do feel pretty good about, you know, I think what we saw last year was largely real. you know, McMillan was an interesting one throughout the process because, as you know, sometimes the tenor of where a player is going to go is determined by what those of us in the media are saying, right? And if, you know, all of a sudden, Dane and Mal and others, DJ and whoever else is doing it are talking about, yeah, you know, hey, we might see this guy go somewhere, but McMillan was one of those guys who elicited opinions all over the board, right? I sort of, I kind of felt like throughout the process we started to overthink McMillan a little bit because of the speed while ignoring that there's so much good that led to all the other, like all the production. I mean, back to back seasons with 1,300 plus receiving yards.

And I'm, I would like all these guys to go as high as possible. But for a player that during the fall, when I'm watching the tape, I'm thinking to myself, this guy looks every bit the part of a like legit top 10 pick. and then we get through the pre-draft process and it's like, dang, is he going to be one of those guys that just slides and slides and slides? Seeing players like that still go really high, you're happy for them because it's a good reminder that the tape still is the foundation of the evaluation

for NFL teams. It's not merely what happens at the combine or in the case of some players, what doesn't happen at the combine because they opt out of participating in these things. So, listen, none of us are ever going to be totally right on all of these players, you know, but you just, in this class particular,

when there were so few Blue Chip players. That's it to me. You just like don't let, like, you could find a war on all of these guys. Truly, like you name a player, not named Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter,

and we can just play that game for, we could do a whole podcast on that. You want to do the work? Fine, we can do it. It was an interesting class, and I always have so much respect for all the guys that do it. Dane, again, Mel,

DJ, highest level these guys are operating at. My colleagues, Matt and Jordan at ESP. and like some absolute stop like total rock stars doing it man it is this draft glass was putting everybody to the test so shout out to all those guys who crush it for 12 months a year getting ready for that weekend and this one felt as unpredictable as you could ever imagine it's a great framing for the McMillan pick and his just role within the process because when I watched him I liked him I love him you know like they're even beyond the speed concerns like I just I said this when

we talked about him the first time I wish you had 20% more dog in him like I just I wish she I just wish there was just like a little bit more toughness, but you watch him play. And if we're going to have like a 6-5 finesse receiver, he does it very well. He does attack the ball. He comes back to the ball really well. He's so incredibly smooth.

So even if you had a couple things about him, it's like, I'm going to ding him for this. I'm going to ding him for that. Well, in this class, that still makes him a top 10 prospect. Like I still, even like Kenneth Grant went 13th. There are elements of Kenneth Grant's game that give me way more pause than in Tetero-Mcmillan's game.

and especially at a position where teams need this guy. And Dane was steadfast. He said if he's on the board of 12 for Dallas, he's getting taken at 12. Like he has not fallen past that. And so to see him go eighth overall, I don't think should be that surprising. So we'll see what happens and how he fits into just the overall complexion of that offense. But, you know, there are a lot of teams here that we mentioned where these were not interesting teams for most of last season, right? The Raiders, I think the Cardinals are interesting to me, but to the general public, maybe not.

the Titans, the Panthers. I think that's what the draft is about. I think it's about kind of injecting a little bit of excitement, a little bit of outside interest into teams that are trying to get back into the conversation. And I think this weekend specifically was a pretty good one for some of those teams, maybe on the fringes, trying to get themselves back into the discussion. Yeah, the draft is the ultimate conduit to hope, right? Like all 32 have some reason to feel optimistic about their franchise going forward after the weekend that was.

All right, buddy. The fact that you're willing to do this, you know, two days after you to spend an entire weekend on TV, I always deeply appreciate that. I hope you can get a little bit of rest. I hope you have a little bit of time here. You certainly deserve it. So thank you very much for taking the time out. And we'll do it again very soon. I was going to say, let's start the clock now, 365 days until we do it after the Pittsburgh draft next year. I can't wait. We'll be in Pittsburgh next year. So hopefully I'll see you there. And I'm sure I'll see you somewhere along the way here. Guys, that's all we got. This is. is our last draft review show that we're going to do. So this officially puts the 2025 draft

coverage to bed. Derek and I will be back tomorrow. We'll be talking about the biggest questions we still have roster-wise now that the draft is over. I'm sitting there looking at the Bears' hole at running back outside of DeAndre Swift and just imagining when the Nick Chubb news is going to come. So there's going to be a lot of those, I think, that we still have to address over the next 24 hours or so. That is what Derek and I are going to be doing tomorrow. So peace me on the lookout for that. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening.

We'll talk to you very soon.