The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The Playcallers Ep. 4: Blood can blind

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

Sean McVay becomes the first coach from this coaching family to win the Super Bowl, but it costs him more personally than he could have realized. Before McVay gets to the championship, he has to exorcise his "Kyle Shanahan demons" in the NFC Championship game. Shanahan and Mike McDaniel built their offense into a versatile, punishing group as McVay's own system centers around the flourish of the passing game. McDaniel, who becomes the Dolphins head coach in 2022, starts stretching his legs after so much time working under Shanahan. Meanwhile, Matt LaFleur's own Packers offense is built around compromise and a Hall of Fame quarterback. In speaking with host Jourdan Rodrigue, each head coach opens up about how play-calling has shaped their identity.Voices in the episode include McVay, Shanahan, LaFleur, McDaniel, Kevin O'Connell, Zac Taylor, Kevin Demoff, Les Snead, Raheem Morris, Andrew Whitworth, Mina Kimes and Steve Wyche.Playcallers is presented by Miller Lite. To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit millerlite.com/playcallers.Celebrate Responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, WI. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Remember that question that has mirrored the rise of this offensive system? In a league where everyone wants credit, how much is owed to the system, or the players, or the play caller? Credit is a huge thing. Everyone wants the credit for what happened. Those guys were constantly pushing each other, whether it was scheme-wise, whether it was players, putting guys in the right position to be successful. They were all competing every single day. Rams head coach Sean McVeigh got his answer in the biggest game of his life. For a few moments in Super Bowl 56, his fate was in his players' hands. Both moments happened on the Rams game-winning drive. The first was a fourth and one on their own 30-yard line, down by four points with five minutes left to play.

The Rams went for it. He's going to get it and more to the 37. The play itself threw it back to memories of McVeigh in his first season with the Rams, when they just tried things and worked ideas out with players, sometimes even mid-drive. The Rams had repped that specific play in practice leading up to the Super Bowl, and it actually fumbled the handoff a few times. Former left tackle Andrew Whitworth remembers receiver Cooper Cup and quarterback Matthew Stafford putting their heads together. You know, Cooper and Matthew having a moment that week.

you know, where they're discussing the handoff on the fourth and one. And we didn't even know it'd be a fourth and one like that. We're thinking, you know, first quarter, second quarter, just need to get a happy yard or something. But, you know, and it's like, hey, I don't like it this way. I think it'd be more efficient if we do it this way. They took it back to McVeigh as a finished concept. And thank God they did, because if we'd have done it the original way, I mean, they would have blown it up completely. And by the way, they kind of came up with to do it that they thought was more efficient. Makes a difference. And there's Cooper and Matthew. having the freedom, which goes all the way back to 17 of John and Saffold and I, all having

the freedom and Todd to kind of orchestrated how we think is the best way for us to efficiently do something. They never actually ran it again before McVeigh called it in the Super Bowl, in the most crucial of circumstances. A few plays later, Stafford made one of the biggest throws of his career, a no-look masterpiece to Cup on second down in seven, with just over three minutes left in the game. Snaffer.

Caught on the run. Cup, who else? The play call that, you know, like when we go that last drive to win the Super Bowl, if you said, what's the worst coverage that you could get for this high-low concept that we hit Cooper Cup on, it would have been, you know, there's like two coverages that you're saying that should be a dead play. Well, one of them we got. Even now, even after a diamond-encrusted ring and confetti and glory,

Sean McVeigh's face crinkles up slightly in distaste when he thinks about the play he called. You know, when basically Vaughn Bell's dropping right into that area that is where that point of attack. But what happened? Matthew Stafford and Cooper made it right. And the protection held up long enough to let him wait for him to clear that window. And he moved the hook defender enough and had enough of a feel for the backside hook player to be able to get it in there for a big explosive. But that wasn't a good play call.

you know, but people don't want to talk about that. They just remember the result. There is no better illustration of the complicated and ever-changing relationship between player, coach, and scheme than that drive. Mike Shanahan once felt that this system could be alive, and so it could evolve under stress and pressure. And that's why he grouped all of those young coaches together. He needed coaches that were intrinsically motivated to be driven

because they needed to study the game because they wanted to do better because they wanted to evolve. For McVeigh, it depended on the players to take it even further. And so, on that final Super Bowl-winning drive, it wasn't about his call or his scheme. It was him and his players and the system that had become a part of their fabric, and they of its own, all wholly alive all at once.

Sean McVey gets the Gatorade bat there for five seasons. The Rams were built to win the Super Bowl, and they have sealed the deal. Sean McVeigh became the youngest head coach in NFL history to win the Super Bowl at just 36 years old. And he thought it would bring him the ultimate happiness, final closure, after those dark, mortifying moments just a few years prior. It didn't. You start to expect perfection of yourself. instead of just chasing a better version of yourself, it puts you down a road that there's just,

there's no positive ending because you'll never actually reach perfection. I'm Jordan Rodriguez. This is the play callers. By the time Sean McVeigh and the Rams won the Super Bowl, this offensive system was everywhere and still spreading. Everywhere it went, new fingerprints were added by coaches and offensive coordinators. And often, by or because of, of their quarterbacks and skill players.

Joe is a special quarterback. One thing that he excels in is really seeing and understanding the defense. Zach Taylor, the Cincinnati Bengals head coach, was McVeigh's quarterback's coach in 2018. But when Taylor connected with number one overall pick Joe Burrow in 2020, he knew there would be an opportunity to change some of the offense's language in accordance with the things Burrow did best. All he's got his eyes on it, the dropback game, and how quickly he can get the bottom of his hands, how accurate he is.

And so to major in having him turn his back to the defense and then set up on all the different things that I learned in that system didn't make a lot of sense. Hey, let's take one of his strengths and not let him play to that strength as much as maybe I have in other years. And so, you know, we are more of a drop-back emphasis team because we've got some really great players that that fits. Matt LaFleur, who became the head coach in Green Bay in 2019, took on a roster that featured one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time in Aaron Rogers. Also a very, very particular quarterback. Quite frankly, that first year, there was a big learning curve.

Much like L.A. when we came in, the playbook that we came in with did not look anything like the one that we ended with at the end of that 19th season. But we were fortunate, obviously, to come into a situation with, we had some legit players. I mean, obviously Aaron Rogers was pretty damn good.

Devante Adams is arguably playing as good as any receiver in the game over the last five years. And we had a really good offense line. The bottom line is we found ways to win games, and it wasn't always sexy on offense. After 2019, LaFleur and some of his assistant coaches took a dive back into the offensive system with Rogers. Unlike Sean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan when they started their head coaching tenures, LaFleur's identity as a head coach wasn't really a bad. the scheme he ran. It was about compromise. It was myself. It was Aaron. It was Nathaniel Hackett and Luke Getzzi. And we did all this over Zoom. And we would spend hours going through every concept

that we thought we wanted to run and why we wanted to run it, getting feedback from Aaron. And, you know, some he didn't like it. And we just said, all right, let's cross that one out and go on to the next one. But we definitely had a much better understanding of why we were calling it, why we liked it, what we were trying to attack, and what we didn't like it against. And then found out specifically what he felt the most comfortable with, because I do think if the guy in the huddle, the guy that's calling the play, if he feels comfortable and confident in the play call, those guys, those other 10 men in the huddle can feel that.

And you've got a lot better chance of having success. So there was a lot of compromise. And I think that really helped us in that 2020 season. And I mean, we were, I don't know if we were number one, but if we weren't, we were right there, you know, as one of the best offenses in the game and won a lot of games that year. And, you know, and I'm still pissed that we didn't win at all. But it's just, that's the competitiveness in all of us. Kevin O'Connell was Sean McVeigh's offensive coordinator through the 2021 season. He, McVeigh, Stafford, Cup, and Whitworth redesigned McVe's older system to feature more drop-back passing concepts instead of play action.

to spread the field out wide pre-snap, such as with empty sets versus more bunched formations. I think, honestly, some of the craziest stuff we've done, and I can remember, I can vividly remember sitting with Sean in 21, and we were like, look at the way the backside corners chasing on this play. Zero of the intent was to even, I mean, to affect the backside corner. But something about what we did on this certain type of motion or this certain type of cross sift, whatever it was, it just captured the guy's eyes and made him completely void an area of the field. So what do you do? You try to, let's just, well, we could do this. And you start to stand up. You start drawing something. We could run that exact same motion and do

it like this and do it like this and then throw a ball right in that area by leaking somebody back in that area. That's how ideas get formed. But it all comes from you see reactions to plays you have. So what is what do you do? The illusion of complexity. Why can't we just do something that's starts out looking the exact same trigger, the same response, and then take advantage of it. That's where it's constantly a living, breathing thing because you never know when that could happen. Immediately after the Rams Super Bowl win, O'Connell became the head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, inheriting a roster that somewhat ironically featured former Washington quarterback Kirk Cousins and one of the best young players in football in receiver Justin Jefferson.

Part of the thing that we had to do in Minnesota coming from L.A. was we wanted there to be times where Justin Jefferson was Cooper Cout. And then we wanted there to be times where he was Robert Woods. And then there was times we wanted him to be Brandon Cooks or Odell Beckham. And those guys all played different positions. So how do we do that with one guy that's going to be our ex-receiver? We created a lot of new formations. Kyle Shanahan promoted Mike McDaniel to the 49ers offensive coordinator in 2021.

I don't have an NFL career. I don't know what it would look like if he hadn't chose me to be his right-hand man, however exploitative or not that didn't matter. And so I wanted to do right by that in the worst way. Once I got through like my latest and greatest life turmoil, probably in 16, I just stopped worrying about job shit for myself. I really stopped when I became sober pretty much. I stopped worrying about it.

I just tried to be really good at my job, which is empowering is all hell. He also told me that he was going to allow me weekly coordinator press conferences, and that's when I knew I had him. That was not going to be the secret anymore. Pretty ambitious, considering I've never done anything with the media, but that's the way I felt.

I know what it would look like, but I knew it wouldn't look like anything else that was going up to podiums because it was bored me to death. After McDaniel became the head coach of the Miami Dolphins in 2022, their offensive DVOA rose from 24th in the NFL in 2021 to 7th in 2022 with quarterback Tua Tungo Viloa. Out on his own, after a decade of coaching under Kyle Shanahan, McDaniel's first season almost felt like he was stretching his legs. He leaned into elite speed at the skill positions and just tried stuff.

been doing fate boot legs since I came in the league and then against Green Bay this year. They had these wide-ass defensive ends. I'm just thinking in bed Monday night. And I was like, well, two is the left to the end of it. What if he faked the toss to the running back just stayed on track? And then through to Jalen Waddle. Tung of Iloa, under pressure, found a hole for Jalen Waddle. It had an 84-yard touchdown without booting out of it.

And it was something we've never done, and we've done bootlegs since I got into the NFL. And of course, for as long as Sean McVay has been in Los Angeles, Kyle Shanahan has been in San Francisco. Kyle believes when push comes to shove, we are going to beat the holy hell out of you. We'll get back to this episode of the Play Callers after a word from our sponsor. Before you dive back into the play callers, we want to let you know you can unlock this entire series ad-free with a subscription to the Athletic Audio Plus. Unlock that now for just 99 cents a month by clicking subscribe at the top of the Athletic Football Show's show page on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening and enjoy the rest of the episode. In part as a counter to the way defenses were adjusting to the outside zone and with some help,

With help via his troubleshooting against the wide nine he faced every day from Robert Salas' defense in practice, Kyle Shanahan gradually moved his run game away from majority outside zone run concepts. But the 49ers also got really, really multiple as he did, utilizing everything from counter and power concepts to the types of toss plays you used to only see in high school football, to making their wide receivers an extension of their run game with catch-and-run plays, and even lighting some of them up in the backfield. misdirection and pre-snap movement was everywhere. And skill players could even show disguise as blockers.

Well, I think the San Francisco 49ers are a really interesting case study for that sort of tug of war between the scheme and talent and what's best for the offense, what elevates the offense. Because around the same time that Sean McVeigh decided he needed a quarterback who could elevate players around him, so did the Niners. They traded away. I can't take a call for a quarterback. who I'm sure someone in the building at least thought would do a similar thing

and also had the potential to really turbocharge some of the stuff they already did with his dual threat ability. And then that quarterback got hurt, but they didn't play him for a while because it's the type of Jimmy Garoppolo. ESPN senior NFL analyst Mina Kimes is illustrating the sometimes self-inflicted chaos the 49ers have faced at quarterback over the last few years. Between injuries, draft decisions, schematic decisions, decisions and roster management.

Now they're at a fascinating point where they've apparently decided to go with a quarterback in Brock Purdy who operated the scheme. He operated the system. Did it really well. He also could make a little place here and there with his legs and stuff and create. But it's not saying the scheme wins because I think San Francisco is so unique in their assortment of skill players. And I think it's more of an acknowledgement of the common.

of this, you know, group of monsters and the scheme and a quarterback who can just run the scheme, who can run the system, that's enough. That's working for us. And they might be right. It's almost like in absence of a clear long-term answer at quarterback, Shanahan made his run game his quarterback. Just something to think about. So what am I going to do going into this game? I'm going to run at every fucking play. until I don't have to. I want to watch how this goes. And I call one pass and we throw it to their linebacker.

He drops it. Shanahan is referring to the divisional round between the Minnesota Vikings and the 49ers back in 2020. He called 45 runs. Then I watched Kurt go back out again, and I'm just watching him getting killed because they can't block us. And what they're trying to do,

I just know that's not going to work versus us. I'm like, you know what, I'm going to just keep calling runs. And we run it 45 times in the game. We don't have one run over 12 yards, which is crazy. And we end up winning pretty easily. What do we have to do the next week? I think I called eight passes the next week. We won 37 to three or something.

And you start to see that, and it's, all right, we got an offense that can go any direction. It's built to run. It's built to make you stop the run. It's built to have play actions, bootlegs off of that. We have a third down scheme for dropbacks. And if I can build our defense to where I'm always in a spot using our run game and people are scared of a run game, That's the easiest way for me to get people open in the past game.

Over the course of seven years, as Kyle Shanahan built out his roster and developed his scheme, one thing stayed constant with how he tried to play you. He wanted to break you mentally and hurt you physically. I would say that probably more so than any other team that you play on your schedule, they play with great effort, they play with great physicality. You know, everybody's got to get ready for a fight. And if you don't have your mind right for that, you're going to be in for a long day. This is a Giro Evereaux, who is now the defensive coordinator of the Carolina Panthers.

Everro has worked with Vic Fangio, Wade Phillips, Rahim Morris, and Brandon Staley, among other notable defensive coaches, and helped the Rams win a Super Bowl as the defensive backs coach in 2021. He knows Kyle Shanahan's style pretty well. All of your basic adjustments for your defense, he knows them, right? And so he knows what you're going to play versus empty. You know, he knows what your three-by-one checks are, your bunch checks, whatever you might be trying to get to. He knows it. And so you've got to understand that, that he's going to have the best plays up for your adjustments. And so sometimes you play a team that, like, they're going

to give you that physical challenge. Sometimes he play a team that's going to give you that schematic challenge. And I'm so respectful of him. And I have a lot of admiration for what he does because of you better be ready for both against him. Kyle believes when push comes to shove, we are going to beat the holy hell out of you. NFL Network senior analyst Steve Weish always nails it. Everything you try, we're living rent-free in your head. And if it isn't for us making mistakes, you're not going to beat us. Because we're tougher than you.

I'm in coach's head. And for every yen, I've got the yang, and I'm holding the string on the yo-yo. And it's just, we've just seen it. Of the original groups from Houston and Washington, Sean McVeval, and Kyle Shanahan are the only head coaches who must face each other at least twice per year. And at some point, Sean could be like, you know, let's just play football. But his teams lose because of the physical aspect of the Niners. And then when they try to play toe-to-to-to, all of a sudden here comes to finesse.

Here comes a 10-punch rally in the final 10 seconds of the round to win on the judge's scorecard. Sean and Kyle are so extremely competitive. I feel like it's like they love each other so much that they hate each other. Andrew Whitworth has had a front row seat to the way these coaches' offenses have diverged for years. In the sense that they both, I'm sure, love the things they see the other one do to somebody offensively on tape every week. But they both keep it like, I'm not doing it the way he does it and I'm not doing it the way he does it. And it's like the creativity and the painter and the brush and all that that Kyle Shanahan is, it's like, I want to do that in the play action passing game and running the football.

You know, and then Sean wants to do it, throw in the football. You know what I mean? It's spreading people out and like create it. And it's like they want to do it their own way, but it's all built around all the same principles and mentalities and the mindset of what they're trying to do. Whitworth is currently an NFL analyst with Amazon. Along with famed former cornerback Richard Sherman, who played in Seattle in San Francisco. These two definitely have had some stories to swap.

Richard Sherman and I've had this conversation for just because he played there with Kyle. It's like little parts of it every week. I'm almost like, oh, I can, Sean never, like he did that because Sean will never do it. So he's going to do it this way. And like, you know, Sean's never going to do it Carl's way. So he just added this little wrinkle so that it looks different than how he did. It's like you almost can like pick out. I feel like there's some pettiness, like, in some of these little situations.

Like, I won't do it in 12, so I'll do it in 11 and I'll use this person, you know, or I'll do it in 13 because he did it in 12 and we'll use this. Like, you can almost see some of those things, but it's like I'll purposely not do it the same way. But you also see why they're so, they're two of the guys that's like, when you just have random conversations about offensive football and those kind of things, they're the names that come up so much, it's just being so. rare. In order to get to Super Bowl 56 back at the end of the 2021 season, Sean McVeigh had to get through Kyle Shanahan in the NFC championship game. And a 49ers team, he had not beaten since

2018, including six straight losses. With the, knowing Kyle Shanahan so well, and with the success that the 49ers have been able to have against you, is Kyle in your head at all? No. The Rams were coming off a wild second round win over Tom Brady and Tampa Bay. The 49ers had just beaten Matt LaFleur, Aaron Rogers, and the Packers in freezing conditions in Green Bay. That is why you do it. That's why you coach the NFL because you want that every single week. Don't forget.

The game meant Rams defensive coordinator Raheim Morris would see his old friend Kyle Shanahan again too. I'll tell you in doing that week, this is the most important game because it's the most important game. this game, but it's the most important game because it's probably one of the more fun, challenging. Rivian games you play against those like-minded people that you know. Stafford, there's it out. Jefferson downfield. He's picked. No, dropped. A drop by Jaquoski Tart, and he cannot believe it. That's actually the insane, that's the sick disease that we have, that field going against those people in that competitive walk of life to see who's going to be better that day.

Veropolo, under pressure. Donald got there in the air, intercepted by the Rams, and they may ride to the Super Bowl on that. That's the drug for us. That's the insanity. But that's the cool part. And then, of course, Sean McVeigh went on to face yet another familiar face in Zach Taylor and the Bengals. The first time coaches from this tree went head to head in a Super Bowl. So the NFL had become a league where this language and these philosophies were becoming more saturated than ever, and more tape was out on them than ever. In the NFC alone, you had to go against the people who knew you the very best, let alone win the Super Bowl against one of them. And actually winning the damn thing took everything the Rams had, and then some lucky breaks to boot.

We have a trade. We have a trade. We have a trade. We have a trade. Los Angeles Rams are loading up even more by adding. multi-year pro bowler, Von Miller. Breaking news, the Los Angeles Rams have signed Odell Beckham Jr. Eric Weddell, the Pro Bowl safety, has found a new home.

Weddell agreed to a two-year deal with the Los Angeles Rams. It's worth of reported $12 million. They're off a row in trouble again. And a drop. Make it Benjamin. And pressure by Greg Gaines. Here's Gay from 30 yards out. He's got it.

Rams are on top. 20 to 17 with a minute 46 to go. One more snap, and the Rams are going to Super Bowl 56. And finally we are off and running in Super Bowl 56, starting with the touchback. Passed, got it. Touchdown. The Rams were built to win the Super Bowl, and they have sealed the deal. We world champions.

This is what it's all about. All that hurt work, we pinning it to this? Sean McVey just tapped me on the shoulder. He wanted to know if you were interested in running it back. Running back! I don't think there was ever a concern about what would happen on the other side. Nobody ever asked the dog after they catch the bus whether it was worth it. This is Ram C-O-O-C-O-C-O-Kev.

I actually, having now, had a good fortune to be able to reflect on both Super Bowl one and Super Bowl lost. They're no different. The challenges that come with going in the Super Bowl, the challenges that come home, with going to the Super Bowl. The difference is at least when you win, you have something tangible to show for it. But it's amazing, too, how fleeting a Super Bowl actually is. You show up two weeks later, you're at the Combine, you're zero and zero.

You go into free agency and players, they're excited you want a Super Bowl, where they want to get paid. Coaches are thrilled, but they're going to go take promotions elsewhere. So while it will last and be something that's on your epitaph, you sit there and everybody goes through. And again, there's a reason nobody repeats. And so our job was to get back to the top of the mountain. And then you figure out, you worry about how you're going to get down from there.

I think we would joke and say, well, you know, whatever the crash would be, it would be. In 2022, that crash from first to among the worst was epic. I think we all hope that winning a Super Bowl would be the ultimate freedom to stop working about that. But what's hard about winning a Super Bowl is so intoxicated, and all you want some more. Now that you've tasted it, you just want to get back. It's not necessarily the freedom you imagine. Sean McVeigh's own crash was more like a supernova. Got his first sack at Denver last week.

Stafford in trouble and sack. Brought down by Hassan Ridgeway. Sean McVeigh, Super Bowl winning coach is said to be mulling. His future. Perkins tipped out the line. That's intercepted. Nick Bolton's got that to the 35. Still on his feet inside the 30.

They're fans in a frenzy right now. I don't think you can underestimate the mental toll. Big play here from Mayfield in this offense, down two touchdowns. Football is lose. Who's got it? And the Chargers have it. You see a guy like Sean McVeigh, young, energetic. You just, you have to understand how much it means to these coaches.

It's not just that the Rams were terrible in 2022, just months after shouting from the rooftops that they were going to run it back. It's not just that they faced an historic streak of injuries. To Matthew Stafford, Cooper Cup, Aaron Donald, almost every first, second, and even third-string offensive linemen they had. All of that was tough, yes. It was also that Sean McVay had taken every step he could think of at great personal cost to himself and to everyone around him to reach the mountaintop.

You lose that Super Bowl, you know, everybody says, oh, you'll be right back or you'll get there. And then I think the lies that I told myself for, you won't be happy until you won a Super Bowl. And when McVeigh finally stood up there at the pinnacle, he looked around. And he saw for the first time the scope of that cost. And then you have this maniacal pursuit of trying to then finish that deal. And without even realizing it, your passion and your purpose gets a little bit misguided. And it only really got revealed when we weren't getting the results that we wanted. He realized he was still lost.

And he couldn't hide how he felt about that behind winning anymore. Because he wasn't winning. You know, when you go all into something and you are passionate about it in the midst of that journey, it can get a little bit misguided if you don't have the appropriate purpose and perspective and your passion isn't harmonious, if you will. GM, Les Sneed saw that Sean McVeigh's own pursuit of perfection could be self-destructive. Whatever he was going to be, he was going to try to be great. He was writing poetry. Whatever poem he wrote yesterday, he legitimately had his cellular level.

wants today's poem to be better than that poem. Like there's never a moment where you go, hey, just like you got an A plus on yesterday's poem. Just make it a B day. B poem. Uh-uh. No way. Yesterday's poems yesterday were, and I think that's, I don't know, there's an element

of you meet people, you get to know them and they have that or they don't. It's not all roses. There's plenty of thorns. I call it my Edgar Allan Poe. paradigm in that. And I didn't know Edgar Allen. I've read about him. It does seem like it wasn't all roses for him. But, oh, man, did he write good poems? I'd be the least poetic expert. But from what I can gather, he was one heck of a poet. But it does seem like there was an element of struggle to go with that. Sean McVeigh was in an all-out sprint to win a Super Bowl.

after initially coming so close and losing. And he had the team to do it and the support to do it. But he started losing pieces of himself along the way. When those cracks started to show, players and assistant coaches all felt it. Because he has always had an energy that can either lift a room or sink it. Through the 2022 season, many in that building did sink, as McVeigh became frustrated and resentful behind closed doors, then withdrew from many of them emotionally for fear of his own toxic energy,

making them feel toxic. When the Rams were losing games and players to injuries left and right and looked to McVeigh as they usually did to get them back above the water, he had few answers for them, or even for himself. You get caught up in this world where you think that chasing success as a coach is actually going to make you better off the field because you're going to be happier if you just get it better. If I can just do it better next week,

I'll be more of a joy to be around. But the reality is the energy, the passion, the young curiosity, and just zest for life you had before you knew all this stuff about this NFL business and the stresses of it and the pressures of it, that's actually what made you a great coach. And it's like,

how do you get back to chasing your, yourself as a person and being a zest for life and an energy for what you do and just having fun, how you find that as a person again. Because the Rams were winning so many games so quickly into the start of the Sean McVeigh era, the organization's entire function became about sustaining the unsustainable way he worked in order to win. And because McVeigh was winning, it was all okay. I still remember vividly. We hired Sean and he was this unbelievable working partner every day and he kind of would pinch yourself. Like this guy's an amazing head coach in the building and go all the way through training camp.

You get to a week one in the season. I remember walking in his office on Tuesday morning of the Colts week one. And he basically looked at me and said, what the fuck do you want? And it's like, I'm looking around like, what did I do? And it's like, oh, I'm a completely different person in season. And it was true. You know, in 2017, you saw that even. in the, you know, good times, like his maniacal nature in the season is very different than who he is, kind of in the off season. And he pours every ounce of his being into every week. Once you saw year one, year two, your three, like there was just no, that's never going to change. I think we all learn our roles in being supportive of him that we all play.

In Kansas City, in week 12 of the 2022 season, I was up in the press box watching the game unfold and realized John McVeigh wasn't calling it, a first and a startling one. After the game, another loss, I pulled McVeigh aside following his formal press conference. I asked him if he'd given up play-calling, and if I could even attempt to describe the look on his face in that moment, it twisted between anger, crisis, fatigue, and resign.

Let me be really clear here. there's a difference between sympathy and empathy. Nobody around Sean McVeigh pitied him. But at that time, at his lowest, they started to understand the other side of what it might be like to be him. You start to think about the pressure at all, and you start to think about the expectation of it all,

and you start to demand perfection of yourself. Instead of living in a world where you're just chasing being better every moment, you're trying to be perfect. And those are two different things. You start to expect perfection of yourself instead of just chasing a better version of yourself. And it puts you down a road that there's just, there's no positive ending because you'll never actually reach perfection. There's never an offseason.

I say this is someone who's introverted. I can just imagine how exhausting that would be all the time. And the pressure to go win and keep it up. and, you know, this fear that if the winning stopped, everything else would stop. And that's just because there was, you didn't have any proof that it wouldn't. I reported all of this over the course of several months last winter for a long-form story for the athletic. I spoke with Sean McFay in depth about what he went through and what happened next. At one point, Les Sneed and Kevin Demoff gave McFay the option of taking a year off if he wanted.

But the more he thought about it, he consulted with close friends, family members, and others, the less it sounded like the right idea. After that Kansas City game, he picked the headset back up. As he did, he also started reconnecting with his players in small ways. And that too informed his ultimate decision to stick with coaching. Sean's greatest trait and his greatest ability, like I always say, is that his leadership and his energy and his passion and who he was to just make you feel positive about your life and positive about anything that you're going to face,

that was actually as intelligent and crazy smart and as organized and all that stuff's great. That was actually the most special part about him that was like so rare and so infectious that to do some of that, you had to lose a little of that during that time. And I think that that's what he has started to realize is like, that was actually the most beneficial thing about me. Sean is not afraid of self-help, whether he's reading a book, talking to different people. I think that's a big part of being in a leadership role. A lot of times during those roles, you feel like you can't even reach out to different people.

Like, I know that he always feel like he can reach out to me or be part of me, but that gets old. When you're talking to the same person every single day and you need something else, you know, like, and wherever it comes from, I think, is beneficial for him. I can't chase perfection, but I can chase, like, making sure that who I'm the happiest as and who it is that actually people love and that I love about myself. Like, that's my ultimate focus. And then the rest of the stuff I can do it along the way. When it got heavy, it was really heavy. He found a little way out of the darkness and found a way to channel his energy, so to speak,

and just finding out who can play and getting us better and preparing for really what was going to happen moving forward. and that really let me know that all of the whether he was going to come back to football or not was not real because you don't find yourself out of darkness and channel your energy in order to walk away. Without him even ever happened to say it or him ever said to me, I never thought that was it for him or taking a break because it just doesn't work like that for us and how we're built.

We are trying to go win games and go win plays and do those kind of things. But if it doesn't go down, you know, how do you control your response to it with the appropriate amount of emotion that's authentic, but also not preventing you from moving forward when it's already occurred? But agony, beautiful torment, all those words apply.

But I think that this is such a great game and this is such an awesome thing. And I'm hopeful that you continue to take steps in the right direction to be able to apply the appropriate perspective while not minimizing, heck yeah, it's important. You're a human being, you're going to have emotions, but how much do you really embody modeling the way that you ask of your players? And when you do that, you don't regret it.

And really, like, I know that I've done it. And, you know, I think the challenge is as you continue to just mature and grow as a human being and as a person is to be able to apply that with the appropriate perspective and awareness while also still being a human being and not being a robot. The coaches and the family in this series aren't necessarily all the most decorated in the current league. They're the best of the best on some days, certainly not all days. We had a really humbling night in Chicago that wasn't fun, and then we had another challenging game against Philadelphia that wasn't fun.

But something that generationally differentiates them, just as it will forever connect them all together, is this quality they have. They show us who they are in real time. I couldn't handle the emotional, not getting exactly what I wanted, exactly when I wanted it. I had to have a grown-up journey where it all kind of evaporated through my fingertips. You can see each of their identities in how they design and call their offenses. You can see their identities in how they succeed and also in how they fail. It gets hard because just like fans get heartbroken. So do we.

You know what? I work hard when I'm passionate about something. And you know what? I'm getting real passionate about. I'm wanting a chance to go fix how I feel. What was always so important to Kyle Shanahan when you're fighting to prove a theorem for his playbook? That you show him the why. People, you know, criticize millennials.

Oh, they always want to know the why. Well, you should have a why. Later, when Sean McVeigh spoke with me about what he had gone through in 2020, he kept returning to what his rock bottom of sorts was during that time, giving up play calling. It is so personal to be the one who calls the plays, because the act of it is a way to manifest identity. And so many complicated dynamics are at war while you do it. Feeling in control of a situation is at odds with knowing how imperfect the game really is. I never want our players to feel if I've got bad energy.

I never want them to feel that and feel like they've got constraints on them. As the head coach and a play caller, like, if I can't do that, how can I expect somebody else to do that? Wanting to be the best to show the world who you are and what you know must wrestle with the bald fact that it's not about you, is it? It's about your players. And always, these questions play in an endless loop in your head. Are you working hard enough? Do you have enough answers? Are you ready to succeed?

Are you ready to fail? When you go in there now and you throw yourself out there and you mess up, don't change the next week because everyone booed you and everyone's mad at you that you lost the game. Change the next week because you made the call for the wrong reasons. Or because you went with just being risky instead of being smart. Constant internal battles, constant discovery of their own play-calling philosophies, of themselves, have lived inside all of these coaches

since those offices in Tampa Bay, Houston, Ashburn, Virginia. I ask them all, what is it like? Why is play calling so personal to you? There's nothing cooler than something that you're saying, you know, you anticipate occurring, and then it allows the players to go execute that the way that you would hope that would work out because you have a direct impact on the game,

and that is your work, what you're doing, And whether your guys execute it or not, that's who you are. Personality is very much in it because everything's in the heat of battle. The stakes are high. And shit's on the line. Do you want to go with the risky thing or do you want to go with the conservative thing? Well, my personality is the risky thing. There's no doubt about that.

As I get older and mature more in life, I learn like maybe you shouldn't jump off that cliff. I have tangible experiences of, I've seen emotional, I've seen decisions. be affected in a concrete end of the year. I'm talking about season journeys that are dictated by emotional things that have to do with the play that's already been called. My personality changes each week.

A lot has to do with the defense we're playing. A lot has to do with the quarterback on our own team. A lot has to do with the quarterback on the other team. A lot has to do with the coach I'm going against. A lot has to do with the weather. Like, that's what the game plan is.

and people are usually on our team aware of what I'm trying to do. Because I'm not calling it just for, that's what I've gotten better at as a head coach. Because I see the big picture a lot more. When I first got in the league, like, I've had stuff because it's, no, this would be cool and I think it's got a chance, and I've seen it on tape. Fuck it, I'm doing it.

God damn, he just got sacked and we lost the game because of it. I think a lot of times people can become victims of their own ego. They end up throwing tantrums and shit, which affect residually, affect players, and both sides of the ball. It's really OCD. So I've been training myself for fucking ever, is to be a way that I can separate myself from the rest. And I don't have emotional reactions, not because I'm not feeling emotion, but because I've witnessed how many people it affects, how the disposition and belief of a team can be affected by it. Football's the greatest team sport.

And so what I want to continue to do is never change the emotion and the investment. And I want these guys to feel like I'm right there with them. You know, I think that's been a beneficial thing. When you're right there with them with the right vibe, the way that you can be, like, I'm not playing and I'm not naive to think that the players, this is a players game. But I at least feel like, you know, I want to be as emotionally invested in it with them as possible. And in a lot of ways, that play calling brings me closer to them. And you try to take a lot of pride in making the right decisions that are helpful to the players. My dad would get mad at

me every second quarter when I'd call Hail Mary from the 50. And he'd be like, why you keep doing that? Because there's no time. We might as well have a chance. Because I think they never work. And I was like, I know, but what's the harm in it? It might work. He goes, I've called plays long enough. Do you know what it does to a quarterback? When he comes out in the third quarter and he has two picks up on that scoreboard instead of one? I go, no. And he goes, it messes him up. I go, well, he's thinking about the wrong stuff then, dad. Who the hell cares about stats? You need to keep throwing the ball. And I fully believe that. Five years later, hey, I'm not calling that Hail Mary. That just messed up. My quarterback had two picks that weren't his fault. Then he threw a third on a Hail Mary. And now

I can't get him to throw the ball in the second half. Oh, man, my dad was right. I get what he was right. I get what he's talking about. You got to be able to adjust to whatever it is you're seeing. If you're not having success, I'll tell you what, there's nothing more lonely. than when you're not having success and you are the play caller. Because it's easy when things are going good, everybody has an idea. But when you're not having success on offense and you're calling plays, you're like, hey, can somebody help me? It's like crickets on the headset.

And that's just the way it's a lonely feeling. It's a lonely world. I think it's pretty asinine when coaches think they win or lose games. And I think most of the play callers think their play calls win or lose games. and that's cool and all, but like, I don't understand how you can overweigh your contribution to the team when you've had so many examples of calling a trash play and it works, or calling the perfect play and it doesn't work. So if you can rectify that your brain on the front end,

there's a tremendous amount of liberty to let go, and just recognize this is your best educated guess. If it was anything other than that, I mean, that's all it is. And you're trying to put people in positions to succeed, but they're the ones that are scoring touchdowns, the players. They're the ones that have to execute the assignment. And on top of that, position coaches have to generally articulate those assignments.

All these things, so many people involved, that how short-sighted and egotistical slash dumb is it to sit there and act like your play call, wins or loses the game. You're invested in this game. We spend a lot of hours. We're away from our family for a lot of time and we're highly criticized for what we do. Now, that doesn't really bother me a whole bunch because I care about what the people in this building think and what our players think and what our coaches think and are we trying to do the right thing and knowing that it's probably not going to be perfect, but are our intentions right in what we're doing? You know how many people crush me for never running the ball?

And you know how many people crush me for running the ball more than anyone? I think it's hilarious. But I get talked all the time about how I don't run the ball. No one runs the ball more than me. And so like, yeah, guys, it depends on the situation. It depends on what we think is best at the time. And that doesn't have to do with the stats at the end of the game. That doesn't have to do, that has to do with our preparation in the week,

our life experiences, the situation at hand. And I better call not what, if I'm just trying to be risky or just trying to be conservative, I'm not going to be able to live with that good or bad. If I call what I truly believe based off of experience and everything and it just feels so genuinely right, this is the right decision, that is where I'm the most aggressive, because my mind's clear and I know it's the right decision. And if it doesn't work, yeah, it's a bottom line business. I was wrong. But I'm still going to go with what I think's right because I'm prepared. You know, like what's so amazing about this sport to me is the amount of work that the amount of

work the amount of thought that goes into those 60 to 65 decisions that you make in that three and a half hour allotted window and when it works out the way that you had hoped for your team but in particular like if you're just talking about calling plays it's an intoxicating feeling because you're doing it with other people and the best appreciation and the best gratitude comes into where you feel like you're helping those guys succeed i'm not shit without everybody I'm working with. It's us trying to try to win a game. I'm the play caller because I'm the foremost expert,

but that doesn't mean that my play call is winning and losing the game. That's way bigger than that. There's a saying, and I know you've heard it, your tape is your resume. So as a play caller, you do take that personal. You want to be the best. There's been some good moments, and there's been some not-so-great moments,

and that's just part of it too. but as long as you're constantly learning along the way, you know, it's never going to be perfect. We always talk about football being an imperfect game. It is a weird existence, and you do get like, if you wanted to be dumb and delusional, it's a very easy way to lose yourself. People ask me for autographs. So I don't always laugh at that. I'm an idiot.

But like, I know for 38 years of my life, I couldn't fucking give that shit away. Now, people want me to write on stuff? That's funny. There's humility that needs to be involved for you to be capable of doing your best, I think. And that's why I don't get nervous in big moments. They don't. It's really fun. I know that's different, too.

I knew that at 16 in the Super Bowl, people were hemorrhaging before the game, even on the coaching staff, and I was totally fine, but it was because I was prepared for it. And I kind of saw that scope even before I was a play caller. I was just being a part of the whole thing. But how stupid is it for people to think they play callers win and lose games? No, your players win and lose games. Are you the best person to maximize their talents? Hopefully.

But isn't that what we're hired to do? On the next and final episode of The Play Callers, the anguish, joy, exhilaration, anxiety, and endlessness of innovation. What's next? What's next? What's next? And I'm really comfortable in that loop. When we're not, that's when you get off. and where football is going in the future. Jordan Roderig is the creator, reporter, and host of the play callers.

Kent Garrison is the supervising producer and sound designer. Editorial assistance from Ken Bradley. Matt Havia and Mike Smelts are the executive producers.