The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The QB2 Series: P.J. Walker on life from the XFL to the NFL

Episode Date: December 24, 2022

Carolina Panther P.J. Walker sits down with The Athletic's Kalyn Kahler in his installment of The QB2 Series. Walker discusses his football career, from the XFL to the NFL.Subscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is The Athletic Football Show. Hey everybody. I'm Kailen Kailer, senior NFL writer for The Athletic. Welcome to QB2, the show where we talk to only my favorite players in football, the backup quarterbacks. Because the backups are rarely the star of any team, I've created a show to give them their moment to share their knowledge and stories. QB2 is a loose term because the guys in this role are pretty regularly shifting up and down

the death chart. Today's guest is a great example of that because he came into training camp this year as the QB4 in Carolina, then became the two and then the one and is now the two again. As we are recording this on Friday of week 15, he went undrafted out of Temple in 2017, spent two years on the Colts practice squad, and then became an XFL legend, throwing for four touchdowns in his first game as a Houston Roughneck and becoming the league's first ever star of the week. In 2020, he signed with the Panthers and he's been there ever since. Welcome to the show, PJ Walker.

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate that. Yeah, it's fun to do a little intro for you guys. Absolutely. Learning about your careers as I prep for this is one of my favorite parts of doing these. So first I want to ask you, PJ, Phil, Philip. What do you prefer? PJ.

PJ, spot. Got it. I've heard, like, coaches call you, like, Phil before or, like, somebody said skateboard P.E. once, and I was like, what? Yeah, that's a nickname I got a lot of shit. So, I mean, how did that come about? Where did skateboard pee come from? Cam Newton, when he got here last year, call me skateboard pee.

And a lot of the guys in the receiver room can't let it go. So they all still call me that for the most part. Why do you think, I mean, did you have a skateboard? What was the origin story of that? I don't know the background, but I don't know the background of it. But some guys do. And I'm from out. Some people do, but you don't?

No, I don't. I don't. Okay. He got a, he has a name for a lot of people. Yeah. Everybody almost had a nickname. We had Kyle Allen on a couple weeks ago, and he had a nickname also from Cam. It was Lovey-Dubby. He actually knew the origin of his because it was because he kept posting his girlfriend on his Instagram. But we're going to have to find out. So, like, again, Cam, if you're watching this, please phone in and let us know why PJ is called Skateboard Pete.

We need to know. Or any teammates who are watching, please let us know. That's who. I want to start with a question that I think is really pertinent to guys in your position. So, you know, I've talked to players who don't want to come on this show because they don't see themselves as a backup or they don't want to ever, like, identify with the term QB2. And even though I said it's pretty loose, you know, some people just don't want to go there. So I'd be curious for you at this point in your career, how do you see yourself? Like, what term would you use to describe, like, where you are in your career? It's tough to have a term for it, you know, just based off of my situation over the past couple years.

Yeah. But now, you know, me being my, this being my six-year in the league, I'm one of those guys that could just come into a QB room and I can help the room, you know, whether it's help the starter, help the backup or anything like that. You know, I'm always here to push guys, give guys that competitive edge when I'm in that room. And that's always been my role, you know. So for me, it's always just push the guys around me, try to get guys better. And also because that also brings out the best of me, you know, just making sure everybody else around me is good and competing at a high level. Your first start in the NFL was in 2020 when Teddy Bridgewater hurt his knee. And he was questionable all week.

I believe he was a game time decision. Yeah. Take me into that Sunday. How much time did you have, like when did you find out you were going to be starting? I found out right before the game Saturday or Sunday morning, but I had an idea going in, going throughout the week, you know, the way the reps went during the week. Teddy didn't practice much. And so for me, it was just to go out there, take advantage of those reps when I was out there, you know, and just keep preparing like I'm going to start, not knowing if I'm going to start

or not. I know Teddy could have went out there and played with or without practice. So for me, it was just to go out there and be ready and stay ready. And so when you find out Sunday morning, like, do you remember if it was like an hour before, two hours before? Like, what is it like on a game day? How do you get that information? About an hour, about an hour before, you know, because Teddy had to go through his, he had to go through his pregame warm-up, his pre-game workout. Right, right. If he can go or not.

And about, I would say about an hour before the game, they let me know that I was going to end up starting. And so for me, it was just, just, I was already preparing myself to start, though. So that was the best part. I didn't really think that Teddy was going to play. So for me, it was just to go out there and be ready. You know, I had that mindset all week. And, you know, if I didn't have that mindset all week, I probably would have, you know, struggled a little bit out there.

So it was more like a confirmation as opposed to, like, really you were on the fence. Like, you pretty much knew. Yeah, pretty much. I knew and I had a good idea. It was probably just needed a confirmation of saying, you're going to be the starter that. When the starter, like, has an injury like that, how much are you kept in the loop as far as, like, how his rehab is going or how he's feeling on that day? Like, what do you know about it?

Not much at all, especially for a guy that's, like, questionable, you know, you just really never know how they're feeling. They could not feel good all week and come Sunday, they can feel better, you know? Yeah. You just got to, you just got to, at the end of the day, be ready, you know, and for me, it was also just to look forward to the opportunity, you know, out there and not not be ready for it, you know. So I was just, I just had to make sure I was ready for the opportunity and I was. And is it more like just because the nature of certain injuries is kind of unpredictable that you don't know, or is it more like Teddy doesn't want to tell you or other people don't want to tell you? I don't think it's more of Teddy not wanting

to tell me or other people, you know, I just think that it was just more of him rehabbing throughout that weekend and just seeing where he can see him, see where he was at the time and seeing how he moved and things like that. you know, just with that when the opportunity was presented to me that I'd be starting, you know, I just, I had to take full advantage of it. And, you know, I thought I thought the guys around me, you know, also helped me out with that and just preparing, give me, getting me prepared for the week, you know, that there was all, they was all buying into me. And it felt good. So I'm going to come back to this season of the Panthers a little bit later, but I want to go back to the very start of your professional football career with the Colts. and Andrew Luck was there at the time.

And I believe you were there. I mean, Luke just did his first big interview with ESPN recently. So he's kind of been back in the news as we've gotten a better understanding of like what was going on in his mind during that time. What was it like to be there with Andrew Luck and witnessing him just stepping away from the game that's that training camp? It was crazy because he just won't come back player a year to year before. Yeah. And this is this. The main thing I really remember is Jacoby coming up to me on a sile-on. Like, 12 is about to retire. And when he said that, Andrew didn't come on my mind, first of all. So it wasn't, I wasn't thinking Andrew. You're thinking like Aaron Rogers or something? I was thinking somebody else. Tom Brady.

I had no idea who he was talking about, maybe like Tom or somebody. Yeah. Then when I was like 12, he was like, Andrew, I was like, what? I was, I was a shock this. Everybody else was at the time, you know, I found out during the game. So it was like, wow, I wasn't expecting it or nothing like that. I'm sure a lot of people wasn't. But to see it happen was crazy. It was a crazy time. And it was just happened so fast, I want to say, you know, it was right.

I found out going about end of the game. And next thing you know, it happened. That's so wild. So I think like we've now all kind of gained a better appreciation and understanding of, you know, why Andrew made that decision. And, you know, I think a few years later, we're kind of all at a place now where we're like, okay, like, you know, people need to make decisions that they're comfortable with and take care of their bodies and their mental health and everything. Have you ever in the course of your career, which has obviously been full of up and downs, have you ever thought about quitting? Like, why are you still here, you know, trying to make a football career?

It was tough in 2018, I want to say, for me. You know, I was released from the Colts a lot during that. during that 20th season. And I would travel though. So I knew I would still be around. I knew I was still, you know, but just not being able to go out there and practice, not being able to go out there and get reps, not being out there with the guys.

Those things was like affecting me. Not in a good way either, because I was like really disappointed about it. But in my competitive edge was just like, come on, like I want to be out there with the guys, but it just wasn't going that way. So for me, it was just when you do get an opportunity go out there to go out there and be around the guys when you get the chance to go around

your teammates, just enjoy that, enjoy that, you know, because you never know when it's going to get taken away from you. You know, that was my mindset about the whole thing. So it almost sounds like you maybe felt like someone who was injured in a sense. Like somebody who was. Absolutely. In ways I was, you know, but, you know, just having that, having, you know, a good corner, a good support group around me to just telling me to stick. stick it out and just continue to just keep, keep grinding, keep doing what you're doing.

You know, it's going to pay off at some point, you know. And it has. So when, and audience, he is not joking. I believe you were released from the Colts like 10 times. Yeah. Who's counting, right? So when you're released in those moments and you're explaining like they would travel you, I'm assuming they're traveling you just in case a quarterback gets hurt or they need depth for a game.

date? I was usually traveling. I was on practice where I was the third quarterback that traveled. So it really wasn't even a injury thing either, you know, so I wasn't, it wasn't an injury thing. So that was just the toughest part for me, just not being able to go out there and practice with those guys throughout the week. Yeah. So what did you do during the week? Are you just like sitting at home in Indianapolis, like waiting for them to bring you back? Pretty much. I'll just work out of my own, just try to get as much working out in. I could on my own and make sure I come back into the facility ready to go. Yeah.

Are they, I don't know exactly what the rules are. Like, are the coaches able to, if you're not officially, they can't talk to you or send you anything? Yeah. Okay. Wow. So, you know, if you were like seeing a, hypothetically, if you had been seeing like a counselor with a court or like a sports psychologist there, like you would not be able to do that.

Yeah. I wouldn't have been able to because I wasn't a part of the team at the time. Wow. That is like a very interesting sort of like weird gray area for players who are like on that fringe bubble where like the team does need you, but they don't need you every single day. Yes. And that's, that was my situation. I felt like, you know, so for me it was, it was tough to be a part of it, you know, by like the third or fourth week. I was pretty much over it, you know, but I just, I just want to continue to continue to go through with it and see where it goes from there.

Yeah. That's so interesting. the last time that they released you, it was September of 2019. Yep. Did you think you were going back? Like, what was the messaging at that point? It wasn't like those previous ones that the conversations we had with the previous releases.

You know, I thought that was, I knew that was my final, my final time being there. I knew that was the last time I'd be there. So they actually said like goodbye. Yeah, it was actually, I got actual goodbyes that during that. Oh, okay, okay. I just knew that one was, I knew that was it for me. Okay. And what are you thinking at that point?

Are you thinking my NFL career is done? Are you thinking I'm going to have another shot? I'm definitely thinking I got another shot to go somewhere. You know, I was already in the process of Honda hearing about the XFL. Yeah. And for me being on a practice squad the past two years, you know, I was just ready to go out there and play football no matter where it was, you know, at that moment. I just wanted to go out there and show the guys and show pretty much the world that I've been working and I can go out there and play football still.

You know, being on practice squad for two years and not getting no game reps is pretty challenging for a player, I would say. You know, and nobody's really getting an opportunity to see you play besides the guys around you. And when I got the opportunity at XFL, it was my opportunities that I had with the coach on the practice squad show how I was. was practicing an XFL, how I was practicing with the Colts. So for you, you weighed actual game experience over going to another NFL team's practice squad. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Because I know, I think Oliver Luck, who was the commissioner of that version of the XFL, he said that after you had committed to the XFL and signed on, the Pittsburgh Steelers wanted to sign you. I think it was like Ravens Week and you were similar to. to Lamar Jackson and they wanted to sign you kind of to be that scout team look during the week. But obviously that's not game action. How did you feel learning?

Did you know that that happened at the time? I knew it happened. And my agent spoke about it. And I wasn't disappointed. You know, it just, it was, I believe it was towards the end of the year at some point. It was probably middle towards the end of the year. So for me, it was just to go out there and get prepared. They were going to play in XFL.

I knew those games was going to be live and televised. So for me, it was just to go out there and just show the world I was able to play ball still. So your Twitter, all your social media, like profile photos are still from your XFL things, which I actually love that. Like, that version of the XFL was so much fun and I'm super excited for it to come back this season because you're like, I'm going to be watching. I'm definitely going to be watching. Definitely.

So I want to talk a little bit more about that XFL chapter of your life, it was so exciting. So when you joined the XFL, I mean, it was a brand new iteration of this. What was different about life in the XFL as a player? Like what benefits do you get as an NFL player that maybe weren't around in the XFL? There's different things to it, I want to say. But, you know, for the most part, they're traveling, they're traveling with the guys. And that's really the only different. I want to say. You know, you know, we get a lot of great things here in the NFL that the XFL kind of didn't offer at the time, you know, just based off of it just up and running and getting going,

you know. So it's pretty much just the traveling. That was really the only difference that I felt that was more different than the NFL, you know. I love the NFL rules, the XFL rule changes we had. I was going to ask you, what is your, what is your favorite one? Oh, the no, the no extra point. That was my, my far my favorite. It was a couple of times. It was a couple of times I've actually ran out there running off the field after a touchdown thinking we're about to go kick a field goal extra point, but I got to run back out there because we got to go score on offense again. So I actually like that part. Headline, PJ Walker hates kickers. Just kidding. I'm kidding. We didn't say that. That's not what he said. Don't take it out of context. I didn't say that. I will say that personally. They're great people. They're great people. But I 100% agree. That is why I love the XFL because all the different, you could go, you could score nine points in one possession because there was a one point conversion, there was a two point conversion, there was a three point conversion, which barely anyone ever did. But I was going to ask you like how, so if your favorite rule change of the XFL was that extra point being a conversion every time and no actual extra point kick, what, how did that change the strategy of the game? And I personally would think like, So the three point conversion was the farthest back.

Yes. The two point was at the five, I think. Yeah, two points at the five. And the one point was that like the two. The two. Yeah. So I would think if the farther back you are, you actually have more room in the end zone to like do a passing play. But it wasn't utilized that much.

So tell me a little bit about like the strategy of the conversions and the XFL. Yeah. So I think it was based off the teams we were playing because we actually went for three points in the XFL. couple times on my team. We was a pass heavy team, though, like, we threw the ball a lot. So for us, it was any time we saw a team that played like red two or any type of split safeties down there, you know, we was attacking. We was throwing the football down there. We wanted to have that space. So we would go for three points, you know. We would try to spread the field out and try to just get people to run as much with the space that we had. You know, it was more

space for us to go out there and convert and make those plays. Do you think the NFL will ever adopt that. Are you sort of, are you bringing it up in meetings? Are you trying to convince people like, you know, grassroots style? I'm all for it. You know, but I don't think it would change. I think the NFL does what the NFL does for a reason. And it's always worked. So I think, I think that's why they're consistent on what they do. Did your three point conversions, were you successful? We were successful on two of them, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. That's like so much fun. I love that.

So you kind of, one of my other questions where he was going to be, did you ever get confused either? And you talked about, you know, running off the field thinking, oh, we're going to kick an extra point. Like, I'm done. Were there any other moments where the rules changes became confusing? And some of the other rules changes for the audience who maybe isn't familiar, there was a running game clock. There was an eighth official, particularly the spot the ball to kind of. and keep the game moving faster, which I think is also another really good idea. You could do a double forward pass, which is really fun.

Yeah, so was there any moments where you were like, wait, what is going on here? No, I actually liked all the rules that they had in play. One of the most interesting things, though, about that was every receiver having a speaker in the helmet. Like in the NFL, you got all the quarterbacks with the quarterbacks and linebackers or whoever, whatever's calling for that team. One person per side. Yeah. And for the XFL, all the receivers had them with the quarterback. So we've really, the receivers barely was in the huddle for us.

You know, they always stayed outside the huddles and they just listened up for when June was calling the play to me, he would talk to them as well. So that was actually interesting to me. Does that, that seems like it would be helpful as far as the speed of the game. It is. And the play clock, not the play clock, the time. clock to get in and out of the huddle was short. It was only 25 seconds. That was part of the reason for us not huddling at all with the receivers and keeping them out there for the splits.

And when did the like microphone shut off? It's like the NFL after 15 seconds. Okay. So were there any times you were able to make like say something to a could you say something to your receivers or you're all just listening to coach? I wasn't able to say so. We was all this coach. So that was really, but we would call the playing and our team was pretty good. And our team was pretty good with knowing what they were doing and things like that. So they really, June pretty much they didn't say much after he set the plays. Yeah, that's so, it's so interesting. I remember one instance that your team, that you, I think you've kneeled on fourth down

with two seconds left on the clock. And in the NFL, it would have been fine. It was a nine point difference in the game. You guys had a nine point lead. In the NFL, that would have been fine. But in the XFL, your opponent, I think it was Seattle, actually, could have had a chance to tie the game because you can't score nine points. What happened there? Was that just like coaches kind of forgetting about that? So they, so we end up taking the knee.

I guess they thought the time was, it was time out right to where we would be able to just, you know, a game would be over. But the refs end up walking into the locker room at the time and they called the game and we wasn't looking back at that point. Everybody was off the field by that point. Right, right. Wow. Do you remember any, what was the communication like after that? Like, did anyone try to get you guys to come back out and be like, well, it's actually not over? Yeah, Seattle tried to. But the refs, I don't believe the refs didn't think that they could score or something.

It was just something. It was a crazy situation. Yeah. The refs wasn't trying to come back out for it. And they wasn't trying to finish that last two takes of the game, which was weird, you know. But for us, it was good. You know, we got the win. And we did give them opportunity as well to score.

There was not points either. Right. So were you hearing from NFL teams during your XFL career because you were leading the league, I believe in touchdowns and passing, like you were kind of like the name of the XFL in that time. So did you hear from any teams being like, hey, you're looking good, you know, from the NFL side? No, I didn't hear from teams. I'm pretty sure my agent was in communications for the most part.

I was just trying to stay as focused as possible at that moment, you know, just. Trying to continue on with the success that I was having throughout the league and not trying to let all the other distractions, you know, interrup me while I was playing. And for me, it worked out perfectly, you know. Once the end of the season, it came and COVID ended up coming, stopped the season, midway through the year, there was a few teams that was interested.

So I was looking forward to the opportunity of actually just getting ready to get back into the league. What was it like when that season really abruptly ended? You guys had a couple of games left in the schedule. Like, what happened? How did you get home? Where was home? Did you get paid? So we got paid for our last game.

Okay, good. I was still, I was living in Charlotte at the time as well. Okay. And it was just a lot going on. You know, we end up having to meet in a like Monday. They only said it wasn't canceled. They didn't say it was canceled in the beginning. So they kept guys around, you know, for those couple days.

And for us, it was just like, well, are we going to play this? Are we going to play Saturday? We got to travel. Next thing you know, they canceled the NBA season. And it was like, it was no way we about to play. So we already, a lot of guys end up booking flights that Monday or Tuesday to go back home to where they were from. And I ended up leaving on Tuesday just because I knew that we wasn't going to play the rest of the season. And it just wasn't looking good for us.

Mm-hmm. And did you have to, like, you know, pay your own way home because it was like over? It was all over. Yeah, we had to pay our own way home. You had to pay our way back. And that was the craziest part. You know, just the abrupt shutdown was insane. Were you and your teammates, like, keeping up a group text to be like, hey, how's everybody doing? Yeah, we did. It was a lot of us. And, you know, I think the team that we have is pretty close with a close-knit group. group. And you could just, everybody was just continuing to talk and trying to see what other guys ended up in back in the NFL or, you know, a lot of guys got opportunities going to play in Canada as well. So, you know, a lot of those dudes are still playing and still doing the thing. Did, I was listening to Taylor Heineke on a different podcast and he also was in the

XFL at that time. And he said he noticed a difference in sort of the seriousness of some of the players in the XFL kind of saying like, you know, some guys were just there to have fun. And I wonder if you saw that too. Like how was the attitude, you know, different than maybe an NFL locker room? Yeah, you could, I was definitely, you can see the difference from my group of my group of guys that I was around. At times compared to some other groups, you know, I can tell the group that I was with was there for a mission, you know. and they really wanted to go out there and play ball, and they really wanted to go out there

and try to get back into the NFL. You know, we had a lot of good group of guys. Like the name, I can name a group of guys that's played at high level football, like Connie Ely. He played here in Carolina. Gabe, Gabe, right, he was there, you know. So we had camp for, everybody that was actually contributing and going out there and playing well was on a mission to get back into the NFL.

And that was the best part about our team, I would say. So your opponent, is kind of what you're saying, that you maybe saw some less serious opponents. At times, you know, they just, I didn't think they was as brought in as we were as a group. You know, we took advantage of that. You know, as a team, we knew we knew we could attack some of those guys and we played at a hot level because of that. So I need you to help me understand something about the Panthers quarterback room this season. So it's interesting, like Baker was a starter.

Sam had been a starter. You had even started games in Carolina and won them. So just looking at the room from where I sit, there were two first round picks who had been starters for most of their careers and then you. And when all three of you have sort of the ability to start, you know you can and maybe sometimes think you should be, what is the dynamic there when you have three guys that are like,

I can do this? I was just talking to one of the guys in a locker room about this. I've never been around a group of guys that was as unselfish at the group that we had in our locker that we had in that QE room at the time. We all knew we can go out there, contribute, play on Sundays, and go out there and win games for this program, for this team, for the organization, you know. But when only one guy can go out there and play on Sundays, you know,

so for us, it was the support whoever went out there and played on Sunday. And I thought that's what we did really well, you know, each guy had each other's back. And we just put, we was out there competing with each other. And the decision that was made going into the week to see who was playing was the decision. You know, we ran with it and we got, we fed off each other. We helped each other.

We got each other better throughout the week. And that helped us, that helped us a lot. And it made, it made our transitions throughout every, every week easier, you know, because if it was anybody that was going to show any anger or anything like that, it probably would have affected the room. But all of God, stay, stay humble. stayed mellow and just whatever happened, happened. They went with the flow to the decisions that was made.

So Matt Corral, who is the rookie that Carolina drafted this year, he gets hurt in the preseason. He's on IR. Is he around? Is he able to be, like, involved at all this season in the quarterback room? Yep, he's around. He's in the QB room. He's learning still.

You know, he's still trying to adjust to the league. And, you know, I'm just here to help him as much as I can as well, you know. I'm the guy that pretty much he comes. to for a lot of his answers. So for me, it's just always have those, have the answer for them, you know, always be there to have the answer for them and help them as much as I can. What are the conversations like when, you know, as I sort of said in this intro, like you've been in a lot of different jobs just this season alone. And so had Baker, so has Sam. What are the conversations like when Steve or, you know, if it was Matt Rule at the time,

when he says to you guys, okay, PJ's got the job this week or it's Baker this week. do they do that with everyone there? Are you as informed individually? How does that actually play out? Yeah, it's been broken. So it started with Coach Wilkes, you know, just him coming into the room throughout early in the week and letting us know who he's going to roll with.

And so for us, it's... So you're all there. Yeah, we're all in there. We're listening. And that's the best way that's the best way that's the best way information is, you know, straightforward. And, you know, honest, you know, he ain't going, he's going to shoot you straight.

And that's what it's going to be what it's going to be. But that's the response. That's what you want as a player, you know, that's going to be there and tell you what it's going to be straight up. So for us, when he comes in there, he gives us that information. You know, all we can do is just sit there. We can take the information in and move on, you know, support the guy that's starting that week. So that was our mindset.

I would say each week, every week that we got that information. Yeah, that's so interesting. And then obviously the most recent kind of, big news out of Carolina was when Baker requested his release after he found out he was going to be inactive for that game. Does Baker inform you guys about that, or is that kind of between him in the front office that he's asked to go? Yeah, that was pretty much between him in the front office, you know. So for us, we was just, we was as shocked as everybody else was. And it sucked to see it happen, you know, because we all, we all was there supporting each other, you know,

helping each other. For the most part, we all, we all was really good friends in that room. So we all built a really good relationship with each other just based off since training camp, you know. And that was tough. And obviously, you know, I mentioned Matt Ruhl earlier. He was fired midseason, or not even really midseason. It was pretty early in the season.

What is it like to be a part of a team where a coach is fired? I think this is your first time experiencing. that in your NFL career? Yeah, during the season. It's my first time. It's starting a season. What is that like? Did you guys have any inkling of what was going to go on?

How do you find out that information? Yeah. You kind of feel the vibe of it, you know, throughout the weeks as it goes on. But it sucks, you know, just because you go through training camp. You go through a lot of different phases and throughout this football season. And to have your coach leave is one thing. But then to have like the head coach go, you know, who's pretty much running the show at the time is difficult, you know.

So for us, it was more so like we have to adjust to what's next, you know. And then Coach Wilkes came in and did a great job. You know, I think the guys around was all brought in, you know, the first week we got Coach Wilkes. So, you know, we was just looking to try to get things going. and we just wanted to get on a winning the winning board. So Coach Wilkes has this team in a spot where you guys are, you know, competing for the division right now.

Like you could end up with the division if things go the right way. Does he deserve a shot at this job next year? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. You could just, you can see the guys around bought into it. It's not even buying it. We've been bought into what he's been preaching to us.

And, you know, it's one thing to have a group of guys that play for you, but it's one thing to have a group of guys that really love you as a person and wants to play for you. And I think the guys around in this locker room, that's how they feel about Coach Wilkes. And you can't ask for a better guy for the position. And one more Matt Rural question for you. One thing that came out after he was fired is that he would use the acronym OOU, which meant one of us. And I think that came from his temple. days and he was also kind of known for stocking the team with temple guys and obviously you're a

temple guy and so I wonder like how did he use that term with players and did it ever, I don't know, did it ever feel strange to be like one of the temple guys? Like did that ever sort of make other players feel different or other? Yeah, I didn't think, I mean, I don't think that he, And because if you ask me, the temple guys that was here, you know, they never really had, no one ever really had an edge on anybody since they, since we was here, you know. So for us, it was always, you got to figure it out. You got to compete and do all the things that these other guys are doing to even still be here, you know. So that's, that's first.

And if you can't do it, then you won't be here. So for, you know, I think the guys around in the locker understood that and they didn't really, feel any type of way because they knew those guys was competing the same way they were. And it's just, it's just tougher to see a group of guys from a college. You know, it's different if you see one or two guys. When you see a handful that's in a locker room because of someone, you know, you can always raise some skeptics about, oh, he's probably getting treated different or things like that. But I didn't go through anything like that.

I didn't feel like any other guys in his locker room has either. Mm-hmm. And obviously, Rule is now, you know, at Nebraska, took a college job again. So, you know, he's definitely landed on his feet and he's back in the game. Is there any truth to the opinion that some coaches are just really more suited for college as opposed to the NFL? I mean, there's true. There's true. So it is always, you know, you know, it's different.

It's two different levels. It's two different approaches as well. college you can approach the game one way in the NFL. You got to approach it a different way. You know, you got a lot of guys. The consistency with the roster isn't the same as you get in college, you know. And for you to want to build a program in the NFL, you got to, they got to be really good players that can consistently go out there and do their job.

And in college, you can build guys up to consistently do their job. So I guess the time wasn't, the time wasn't right. The timing wasn't right with the guys that was here for them. or things like that. But, you know, you just see the difference in the coaching styles in the NFL and college. And my last question for you, I like to kind of let you throw it to another quarterback who's kind of in a similar role as you, who you respect or who you think needs an opportunity or would be really good to get a shot. Is there anyone that you want to highlight around the NFL as, like, a backup who you think is really talented? I think Ty Huntley is very, very talented, the kid from Baltimore.

I think he's a baller. I just go out there and watch him. And you can just see the consistent times, the consistency when he gets out there and just, there's no change in the offense. You know, they just go out there and they just keep it rolling. And it's so good to see. You know, I'm huge fans of both him and Lamar.

So for me, it's just to go out there and to see those guys go out there and do what they do in their offense. It's amazing. Awesome. Well, PJ, thanks so much. Skateboard P. Thanks for joining us on QB2. And thanks for listening and watching, everybody.

I appreciate you. Thank you for having me. This was The Athletic Football Show.