The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - The Week 2 Hangover: Joe Burrow's injury, Falcons run over Vikings, and more sad voicemails

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Hey, the Bengals finally didn't dig a massive hole in September. Things are going great, right? Right?!? Dave Helman and Derrik Klassen kick off the Week 2 Hangover by discussing Joe Burrow's toe injury and the Bengals ability to stay afloat with Jake Browning starting for potentially the next three months. After that, the guys dig into Vikings-Falcons and Rams-Titans, and then listen to a couple of your sad voicemails to wrap up this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)1:20 Joe Burrow injury12:06 JJ McCarthy injury18:12 Falcons-Vikings recap37:35 Rams-Titans recap56:12 Sad Jaguars fan voicemail1:02:17 Sad Bears fan voicemailConnect with The Athletic Football ShowX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: https://discord.gg/sPp5md3BCall us: 847-448-0701Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dave on X: @davehelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I am Dave Hellman and today we have the week to hangover coming out of a busy Sunday. There's always going to be a few storylines we just didn't have time to get to in the recap. A couple big games we wanted to hit the Minnesota Vikings and Atlanta Falcons played Sunday night. Didn't spend a lot of time on the recap show, but we wanted to dive deep on J.J. McCarthy's struggles. But more importantly, a very impressive performance from the Atlanta Falcons. also wanted to talk about the L.A. Rams getting a big win over Cam Ward and the Tennessee Titans in the early window. Those two games, plus a lot of injury news on the docket this week.

Joe Burrow, J.J. McCarthy, Jaden Daniels, all dealing with various things as we start off week three. Plus, we will once again take your voicemails at the end of the show. Really fun episode today. Let's get it going. All right, Derek, typically on these shows, we want to dive right into some of the games that we missed from Sunday take a closer look at some of the action that got overlooked in the week in the recap show. I'm going to call an audible in week two. We're going to move upon further review into the top of the show because it's a week with a lot of pertinent news coming right out of Sunday. You and I talked on the recap show about Joe Burroughs injury.

It was very speculative. We did our best to sort of dance around it without firm timelines. But here as we record this on Monday afternoon, we know now. Joe Burrow expected to have surgery on his turf toe injury. It sounds like a three month timeline, which basically means the Cincinnati Bengals are trying to survive here until December probably with Jake Browning. We joked about it that a two-oh start is a great thing to have in your back pocket if you got to lean on your backup quarterback. But this is very real. This is the world the Bengals are going to be living in for the next few months, which is it's very disappointing considering even if it wasn't always.

great. They got out of their own way enough to be two and oh. And of course, their reward is they're not going to have Joe Burrow potentially until the very end of the regular season. I mean, yeah, we joked about it. Like this is the first time they've actually started off the season well. And then it comes crashing down where you're not going to have Joe Burrow for the rest of the season where they've been used to starting off very slow. And then Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins eventually dig them out of that, out of that trench that they put themselves in. So I think it's definitely a different situation now. I think the backup quarterback situation is funny. in that Jake Browning is probably like if I had to count on one hand,

one of the quarterbacks that I would like backup quarterbacks that I would want to be like handle a stretch like this. I think he's played well for the Bengals in the past. I think he, despite throwing a bunch of interceptions hot off the bench last week, I still think made enough plays in that game to give them a real chance and was consistently willing to give the ball to the guys that you need to get the ball to in this offense. At the same time, even if he's a very good backup, the gap between very good backup and

the fourth best quarterback in the league. It's different than having like a middling quarterback who you're replacing with a very good backup. Like the gap is just so high. And they've really counted on Joe Burrow to play a very certain style of football as long as he's been in there. So like there's part of me that wants to say that they can manage offensively and they probably can.

But also the last time Jake Browning did this, like the defense was not a catastrophe. The way that I think it has been early in this season, it might continue to be. So that to me is really going to be. to be the bigger obstacle is like not can Jake Browning write the ship but like he needs to put up like 30 a game for this to work probably yeah to be honest it's it's kind of easy to lay out the copium angle for Jake Browning as the Bengals starting quarterback I mean look Cincinnati had seven points when Joe Burrow got hurt on Sunday they finished the game with 31 I mean even with the interceptions Jake Browning led this team on scoring drives we talked about it on the recap show like he put

Jamar Chase and T. Higgins in position to make the plays that they're capable of making. It's not crazy to think that against most opponents, Jake Browning can score you some points and put you in contention to win some games. The problem is in this world, you're like, okay, our ceiling is a little bit lower. We got to be on the screws. We're going to let Jake do what he can do and we'll make up for it with good defense and good special teams and like all those cliches. And that just doesn't sound like the Cincinnati bingles in 2025 to me. The picture of a successful bingles team is an offense that's so explosive and so efficient that there are problems everywhere else on the team don't matter as much. And it's hard to imagine that being the case,

like you said, when you level down from a top tier quarterback to even if he's an above average backup that you're right. That gap is, it's astronomical as we've seen. I mean, Dak Prescott's injury comes to mind where Cooper Rush stepped in for at times over the last few years. And you can win games. You can go three and one with a good backup quarterback. But it is not the same. And the margin for error is that much smaller. Yeah.

And like for a team that I mean, the Bengals were already a team that, you know, I ultimately picked them to make the playoffs when we did our final predictions when it came down to it and stuff like that. But this was a team that like to me was not a playoff lock even with Joe Burrow. And so there's the argument that like, If Jake Browning can just get them to the wild card and you get Joe Burrow back at the end of the season, like maybe that is enough. But even for Jake Browning being a pretty decent backup and generally playing well for them, that is still a very, very thin line that he's going to be having to walk.

And so this is just a tough spot for the Bengals. Luckily, they have a cushion now again in a way that they've never had. But it's just troubling news, especially too, like I know some people are going to say kind of like we've both mentioned. Okay, they ripped off 24 points once Jake Browning came in the game. And offense didn't look great with Joe Burrow, week one. It didn't look good with him early in his Jaguars game. But like Burroughs always done that in September. And then usually by Halloween, he's like the best quarterback in the league again.

Like he's playing up at that level. So like I think the fact that they're going to be able, they're going to be missing that stretch of his plays is pretty tough. Jake Browning's first game as starter this season will be at Minnesota this weekend, which Vikings could be dealing with their own quarterback issue. Let's get to that in a minute. We got plenty to say about the Minnesota. Vikings, but at Denver, Detroit, at Green Bay, games against the Steelers on deck, a road trip to the Ravens, as well as a road trip to the bills. Like, this is all before Burroughs projected return.

If Jake Browning even keeps them within shouting distance of 500, it will be one of the most significant accomplishments by a backup that I've ever seen. I think those are all going to be a very volatile stretch of games. And the reason being is like, those are all good defense. right, but you have the Vikings, you have the Broncos, you have the Packers, you have even the Lions. These are all defenses that are extremely comfortable throwing bodies at you as a past rushing unit, especially teams like Denver. And I think we've seen a lot of that from the Packers early on in this season. So like, you're going to get a lot of Jake Browning just being like, ah, I hope T. Higgins can

make me right here. And that's going to work sometimes. But if you just get hit at the right angle, hit at the right time, that ball's going to pop up weird. So I just, this is going to be one of those like they might score 35 in one of those games because they get a couple of lucky bounces. They might score 10 in some of those games because just, you know, one or two blitzes get home and it just completely wrecks them. Again, if I'm looking for copium and I'm okay filling that role as an LSU grad, as somebody who picked the Bengals to do a lot this season, I picked Joe Burrow to win MVP, which is officially in the toilet after two games, which is just not a good feeling.

but if this all plays out like if the Bengals are still relevant in December, Joe Burrow would potentially return in time for a home game against Baltimore. Then you've got at Miami before back-to-back home games against Arizona and Cleveland to finish out the season. It would be asking so much for Joe to return from this injury, hit the field, and immediately be good enough to make that kind of difference. but that is a pretty manageable final month of the season if somehow the Bengals still matter by the time we get there. Yeah, save for the Baltimore game, like even like 85% Joe Burr,

I'm picking the Bengals in probably all of those games, barring like, I don't know, just some crazy back half of the season stretch from the Cardinals that we've really never seen from them the past five, six years. So yeah, if he can get back at that time and like they need to go three and one in that stretch, that they might be able to get that done. Just a reminder,

we spend an early reminder at that, but we spend so much time and energy debating all of this stuff and projecting the scenarios. And it's a violent sport. It is a given that something, a major storyline is going to get snuffed out pretty quickly in the season. And once again, it's Joe Burrow, who just an unfortunate amount of injury luck in Cincinnati since he got drafted there. I know people are going to dogpile on the Bengals and the. efforts that they've made to put an offensive line around him. And obviously it could be a lot better, but I don't know, man. First round pick at right tackle last year. They drafted a guard pretty highly this year. I just chalked this up to football being a brutal sport more so than really

picking on the bingles. I mean, this is the type of stuff that happens. Joe Burrow is a guy that likes to extend plays when he can. So the type of shit that happens. It's just an unfortunate reality of of the sport we all love. Yeah, I think at this point, I'm like, it to me is not really an investment issue with the offensive line. Like, it's still,

they're not the peak lions or the, or anything like that. They're not the Eagles. But like, I think they have a much more respectable offensive line than they have at certain points in Joe Burroughs, uh, and so this to me was not like a,

they're just leaving him out there to die. It's like, it's kind of like you mentioned, Joe is he's going to extend plays. It's what he does. It's part of why he is one of the best quarterbacks in the league. But he's also just been a guy that like he is consistently banged up. And so,

um, it's kind of been a theme for him, unfortunately. And so I think even with like high quality lines, that's always kind of potentially a risk for him. And so sucks that it's happened this early in the season. He's going to miss most of the season, whereas a lot of times it feels like it's been later in the season or during the off season where he can recover.

So it's a little bit of a different track here. But we'll see how they can manage it. Not writing them off until I have a reason to. There's still a lot of talent on that offense. We will see what Jake Browning can do. He acquitted himself well in 2023. four and three record as the starter. So not a, not necessarily a season ender for Cincinnati, but a huge, huge disappointment for an offense that we were all so excited to watch with Joe.

That was unfortunately not the only injury news that we heard on Monday as Jaden Daniels is apparently dealing with a knee injury that he suffered in that Thursday night loss to Green Bay. I don't know this for sure, but I can't help but think about the scramble play he had where he took a helmet off of his knee while he was trying to maneuver out of the pocket toward the sideline. I don't know if that's the play that did it. It looked like it hurt like hell, though. And so it'll, it sounds like it'll be a waiting game. The word is that it's not a serious injury. So if he were to miss Sunday, it would potentially just be a one week injury. But I guess we'll at least be on Marcus Mario to watch for the next few days. Yeah, which like I, yeah, I don't remember it feels exactly

that play, but I remember they were like just in or outside of the red zone. and Jaden Daniels popped up kind of limping. I was like, oh, that's really not good for them. Thankfully, we've already seen Marcus Marriota play really well in this offense. So that helps a little bit again, almost like, you know, especially the fact that this should only be one week against that Raiders team is not, that defense is not very good. So they should be able to manage it.

But yeah, we'll see when we get there. And then the last one, it pertains to the first game we want to talk about on this hangover show. But J.J. McCarthy, fresh off of a very disappointing outing in his home open. on Sunday night against Atlanta. It's wild because you heard the report that he had an ankle injury and we're all, you would wait and see the timeline on that. And very quickly after that, like, we're not even playing the injury report game here where it's,

let's see what it looks like Wednesday and then maybe by Friday it'll be better. No, already as of Monday afternoon, it sounds like J.J. McCarthy could miss two to four weeks with this ankle sprain, which opens the door for Carson Wins. Maybe Carson Wince is the latest guy to resuscitate his image in a Kevin O'Connell offense. It sounds like I don't want to say a month yet, but at the very least, it doesn't sound like J.J. McCarthy is going to be available on Sunday. So we've got a Carson Wince, Jake Browning potential matchup for week three when the Vikings play the Cincinnati Pinkles. That is gnarly.

I mean, you joke about the, you know, can Kevin O'Connell fix him? But like, I think Sam Darnold is a more talented thrower, obviously. but like on a very base level, the whole deal of Sam Darnold is like kind of a car crash dummy in the pocket who has a talented arm and he's a good athlete. All of that does apply to Carson Wentz. Granted, it's been like five years since I think he's played anything close to decent football.

Whereas I think at least you saw more recent flashes for Sam Darnold before he got in with the Vikings. But hopefully, even though I think McCarthy has been really, really up and down, hopefully he comes back sooner just so that they can get him more reps. Because again, this is a very serious team. They want to be competitive by December. the quicker they can get McCarthy up to speed and not have him sitting out more time

is absolutely huge for them. I mean, he's got to play, man. That's the whole thing. I mean, he didn't have a rookie season. He's got to get reps. And yeah. And like how many times have we done it with quarterbacks like this, right? Where we've said that where it's like, man,

Trey Lance, he just needs to get these reps. And then he's banged up all the time and he never gets them. Or Anthony Richardson, we're like, man, this is a quarterback that really needs reps. And then he gets banged up all the time and he never gets them. Obviously, it's super early for JJ McCarthy. But it's already troubling that he missed. his rookie season and is already going to miss potentially a month of his first starting season.

Again, not getting the reps that he needs for a guy. I think we all agree is, you know, he's the youngest started quarterback in the league. He needs to go out there and throw it. I don't really expect Wins to light the world on fire. Although I mean, I buy this though. Like we can't we can't talk about Minnesota being a Super Bowl contender even if their quarterback has never played and then just act like Carson Wins can't keep the the car on the road, you know? Like I think Carson Wins can at least play at a baseline level that

makes the Vikings competitive. But what I don't really want is for Carson Wins to play well enough that it creates a situation where the Vikings are like, I don't know, do we go back to JJ? Like, we're playing 500 football right now. Wince just through two touchdowns and no picks in our most recent game. Like I hope, I hope this doesn't lead to a situation where they have a decision to make because they already moved on from Sam Darnold. Like if that's what they wanted, they could have just kept Sam Darnold. And now J.J. McCarthy needs reps or you're not digging out of this hole that he is in early on in his career.

I would also be scared of that because they had during the off season of like, are they going to sign Aaron Rogers? Like it already seems like they've been dancing with some of that stuff. So hopefully they don't have to. Hey, it all sounds fun. Starting the young kid sounds fun when you think it's going to go great. But when you see what it can look like and we're about to get into that, I get if you can be tempted to just say,

give me steady and mediocre rather than trying to put all of this together right now, especially when you have a roster that gives you playoff aspirations. So I'm getting very ahead of myself. Carson Wince might have completely lost it. And maybe this isn't a conversation worth having. But I do think that highly of Kevin O'Connell and the talent on the Vikings offense that I expect them to be, I'll say fine. I think I expect them to be fine if Carson Wins. has to play a few games.

Yeah, I mean, Kevin O'Connell's done it with Josh Dobbs. I think he can manage Carson Wentz for a little bit. Hey, guys, before we move on, fun little fact from our friend Bill Barnwell, Carson Wentz, assuming he does get this start is going to be the first quarterback in NFL history to start a game in six straight seasons for six different teams. How about that? Eagles, Colts, commanders, Rams, Chiefs, Vikings. That's that.

From 2020 to 2025. I think the Rams one is the one I've. lacked out. That one I didn't remember. That does not help my case for thinking they might be okay. Like jumping from that many teams and that many seasons does not, all of all of the confidence I was just building up for the Vikings just fell, just went out the window. Yeah, I'm a little bit more scared of it now. I knew there was going to be one.

I was forgetting the Rams one is the one. The Chiefs one I remember because obviously it was like at very end of the season. You remember when the backup just has to go play a useless week 18 game. But the Rams one did not remember that. All right, we're going to keep the Vikings talk going because we do want to dive into Sunday night football. But first, we're going to take our first break. All right, Derek, we purposefully left Sunday night football off to the side a little bit. We had so much to get to during the recap show.

We wanted to do this justice. And look, I made some flippant remarks because this was not an overly entertaining game as the Atlanta Falcons beat the Vikings 22 to 6. took until the final five minutes for us to see a touchdown. A lot of fuel goals, a lot of sloppy play, particularly on J.J. McCarthy's part. But I'm going to take this opportunity to offer a little bit of a Mia Culpah because as unmemorable as this game was, it doesn't do justice to how pleasantly surprised I was with the Atlanta Falcons on Sunday night, who didn't do anything crazy, but just played like a smart, efficient football game.

And you can't always count on that from the Atlanta Falcons. Yeah, they seemed like adults, which again, you can't always count on from the Atlanta Falcons. And I really think that that's true on both sides of the ball. Like, I'll start with the offense because I think that that's just the part, that's the side of the ball that I think going into the year we were probably most excited about. Their offensive line and run game was phenomenal in this game, which is what we were hoping they would be.

Yes. And it's troubling for the Vikings for a. defense that like invested so much in their front in this offseason where like we're going to sign Javan Hargrave and Jonathan Allen and you know last year they had drafted Dallas Turner and they invested so much and it is just in this game clearly went awry for them like Chris Lindstrom in particular was insane in this game like he was moving people five yards off the line of scrimmage on seemingly every play Charlie Werner the blocking tight end had a really really good day as well and then Bejohn Robinson is just like he is probably the smoothest ball care

in the NFL, which doesn't make him the best. Obviously, Saquan Barkley is incredibly explosive and, like, Henry is kind of his own unique thing. But just in terms of the agility and smoothness at which he can move his feet and change direction and spin out of tackles is just like, it's really special to watch. And so the fact that he was able to do that with a little bit of better blocking than I think he got even last week or at certain parts last year, I think was incredibly special to watch.

And then the last thing I would say, too, is like Michael Pendix was, I don't know if he's good anything, but he at least looks like a competent NFL quarterback. And like he's eyes are in the right spot trying to make the right throws. It's like, okay, that's, that's a good starting point. Okay. I am going to gas up Michael Pinnock's a little bit because I just want to, I, I remembered this while I was rewatching the game because it's easy to fixate on JJ because it's his first year and he did what he did against Chicago. But everybody talks about McCarthy playing his first NFL football. And it feels like people just take for granted that this was start number five for Michael Pinnock Jr. It was his second career road start. He only played on the road one out of those

three games at the end of last year. And obviously, this is his first road game of 2025. He's played more football than JJ and he wasn't hurt last year, but still a guy who hasn't done a ton at the NFL level. And I thought the Falcons were just exceptionally clean on Sunday night. And, it was a little shaky in the early going. They had a false start and a delay of game on the first possession. Totally understandable because U.S. Bank Stadium gets rowdy as hell. Like that is a formidable place to play and it's Sunday night football in the early going. But once they sort of calm down, look, I know Pennix's numbers aren't flashy. They do go one of five in the red zone. But I just, I thought he was so calm and poised. He made the right decision.

his eyes were in the right place. Obviously, a big part of this was that the Falcons knew they could lean on the run game. But to go into that environment in your second, yeah, I mean, your second season, your second road start and just kind of looked like a seasoned pro who knew what he was doing and very rarely looked overwhelmed. I thought it was really impressive even if the counting stats weren't. Yeah. And like the red zone thing, this could be an offense that just struggles a little bit in the

red zone because one, they're more of a zone based offense. They're not really a downhill at you type of run game, which I think sometimes in the red zone, especially inside the 10, can hurt you a little bit. And then Panics, I think just the way that he throws being such a line drive guy, not having a lot of touch can sometimes hurt you in the red zone. But like in between the 20s, I thought this offense looked really impressive. Like there are a couple of plays for Pennix. I want to highlight.

Again, I think there are still some issues with this game. But generally to me, eyes going to the right spot. And against zone coverage in particular, he's pretty good at fitting the ball where he needs to. in the middle of the first quarter there's a third down where they're kind of driving down the field they are in Vikings territory they have Kyle Pitts aligned

to the right side away from trips and Pennix knows it's Tampa 2 and he just rips it into the hole between the flat corner and that other whole player underneath to that side I thought that was a really good play there was another in the fourth quarter

again against like kind of a palms covered two look where the corner is like a little bit sitting waiting for the number two receiver to run outside they run a stick concept. Michael Pennix just, he sees the linebacker like a tad slow reacting to the number two running his little stick route and he just rips it.

Like he just, Penix's trigger, I think is very good. And so even if I have some concerns about like, can he make that many plays outside of the pocket? Can he be a scrambler? Can he, you know,

really layer the ball when he needs to in man coverage? I don't know. But his ability to at least beat zone coverage is like, it's a pretty good starting point for this offense. I just love the irony that the Falcons trusted him to just not make the mistake. mistakes, even though, again, this is like a young quarterback who hasn't done it a lot. But he absolutely did just that. I thought my favorite throw of his of the night was ironically the Drake London fumble. But I just thought it was. I thought it was just a beautifully placed ball. And like Josh

Mattelis was creeping on it, probably breaks it up or maybe even picks it off if it's not as good of a throw as it was. But it was perfectly on point. And yeah, Drake London just can't hold onto the ball. But I thought his ball placement on some of those like intermediate throws was was very impressive. Yeah, that one was great too because like you said, Mattelis is driving on it. And so he leaves it actually on London's like back shoulder kind of so he can like spin around and get it. That was just the chemistry between those two is also really cool. The chemistry he already has with London and Pitts is like it's it's awesome to see. And then with nine and a half to play. And I think I think part of this is just the Vikings defense giving out after not really

getting supported by their offense. But when you needed to put this thing away, that's exactly what they did. 12 play 83 yards scoring drive that took six minutes off the clock. And I loved it. Pennick went, Pennix went two for two for 31 yards, two really nice throws. I think they were both to Drake London to get them like away from their own goal line. And then once they got out near midfield, they were like, all right, we're just running over you. We don't care.

And they ran eight straight times. time time to just demoralize you on our way to the end zone and yeah shocker of shockers the falcons were one of the worst teams in the league at running the football last year they respond to that by having the best rushing success rate of week two at least among games played as of monday there's two more to go but just an incredibly efficient rushing performance i don't think you'll be surprised to learn be jean robinson was second only to jonathan taylor in rushing yards over expectation, which, yeah, if you watched the way he was dancing around tackles all night, I don't think that's terribly surprising.

No, not at all. And like, yeah, again, he was phenomenal. And like some of his, you know, the rushing yards are over expectation can sometimes be turning like eight into 12 or something like that. With John Robinson a lot of the time, especially last year, it's like turning two into five somehow. And he did some of that last night. The only complaint I really, again, I'm the eternal critic, the only complaint I want

to leverage against the Falcons offense multiple times in this game, they got inside the Vikings 30 and had like. a fourth and two and fourth and three and didn't go for it. You have so many horses on offense, man. Like, go for it. Like, you have a quarterback who's playing well who doesn't make that many mistakes. You have one of the best running backs in the league. Pitts is playing well.

London's awesome. Like, just be a little bit more aggressive for him worse. That's all I want. Defensive minded head coach, man. I know, I know. I'm always curious, like, do you get more aggressive if you trust the other offense a little bit more? Or do you see the night that JJ,

McCarthy's having and say, hey, field goals are probably going to get us across the finish line tonight, which let's talk about that. Let's, I'm curious for your thoughts, because this is a classic case. I thought the Atlanta defense acquitted itself really well, but where do you strike the balance between was this just Minnesota being abysmal on offense or should we be giving Atlanta a little bit more credit? I think there are a couple of things I want to give. I think it is a little bit more like this is just rookie question.

quarterback and the Vikings were not playing very well. But there are a couple things I want to give the Falcons their credit for. Billy Bowman, even though he got like beat on the over by Thielen and stuff like that, Billy Bowman just played a really, really good game. Obviously, he has the interception, but he was just really scrappy in the run game. He was making a number of tackles in the flats. Like, he is just, I think, a player that is really important for them if he continues to to play well.

So I think he looked good. And then a couple of their pressures and a couple of their past archers looked good. Like, obviously, we made the jokes about Justin's school on one of our earlier podcast and Jalen Walker absolutely worked him, but there was a sack that James, I think it actually ended up counting as a half sack for James Pierce, which is kind of unfortunate for him. But there was one where he and I think it might have been Rooko Rora row are running like a little twist and James Pierce loops around from the edge, gets across Donovan Jackson as the left

guard. And Jackson's just like a hair too slow to see it. Pierce wins that inside shoulder and goes and gets the quarterback. And so the fact that they've got a little bit more juice to get like loopers in, you know, with guys like Pearson like that. That is just not something we ever really see from the Falcons pass rush. And so the fact that we got some of that, I do think was good. So I still got questions about them.

But I can't remember the last time I saw a six sack falcons game. So six sacks on 16 pressures. So a very efficient game from the Atlanta pass rush. And both of your first round picks get in on the action. Yeah, I mean the Jalen Walker, it's a really fun play. I want to see him do it against not just. Justin's school, considering what we've already seen from him over the first two weeks of the season. But it's a nice place to start for the guys that you clearly want to get off to a fast start,

given where they were drafted and what you did to get them. I just, I thought the Vikings offense was just so bad. And I don't even really mean like JJ missing throws or we can talk about JJ not really throwing to his left. I know that's a popular topic of conversation on social media right now. But just in general, they looked bad on just levels of like execution and offense design, like botching the snap on the sneak at the beginning of the game that keeps you from picking that up. There were a lot of botched snaps in this game, by the way. And I know Ryan Kelly went out injured, but several of them happened while Ryan Kelly was still in the game

where you fumble on the sneak. J.J. McCarthy was like reaching to his left and his right and above on multiple snaps throughout this game. They had a sequence that really caught me off guard on the Atlanta side of the field where it was like a wide zone handoff going left. And JJ just like missed his landmark. Like he almost tripped over himself getting the ball into Jordan Mason's hands. And like it's not a big deal. The play was fine. It was like a two or three yard gain. But it just it was jarring on an to see that from an NFL team where it's like man you guys just look rusty and like you don't know what you're doing and like it was jarring to see that from not only an NFL team but a well coached NFL team it just looked sloppy in a lot of areas it did it looked

surprisingly sloppy and i think that was partly true last week again where they were like a little bit late getting in the play calls and maybe some of that's just young quarterback and I think there were a couple of those issues even in this game and then the other one to me that's that seemed sloppy. And I'm still not even certain what went wrong on this play. But in early in the second quarter, it was one of the sacks that JJ McCarthy took where both guys off the edges for Atlanta end up in the backfield. The Vikings are running like this two back set. To me, what looks like what happens is they have Aaron Jones, who is the left running back like flare out on this little swing. It looks like a toss. And JJ like fake tosses to him. You'll see a lot with that play

design. If it's a play action, some teams will like fake that toss to that side and then pull the guard from the other way and make it look like you're trying to get a play out into that side. So in my mind, the right guard should be pulling. But he doesn't at the start of the play. And then as the protection unfold, you can see the line slide to the right and fries realize a little bit late that like, oh, maybe I should have backed up and I was supposed to pull. That looked like that might have.

Like, it's honestly difficult for me to figure out what happened on that play. But like that seemed to me like the pass protection unit was just not in alignment with what the play call was going. and then obviously McCarthy just gets smoked on it. It's just a lot of weird, sloppy things for a team that I typically don't describe that to. I don't want to be a Monday morning quarterback too much because we, it's hard to know this stuff without being in meeting rooms and seeing game plans and stuff like that. But Atlanta was either doing something to ruin Minnesota's protection plan or Minnesota was just not on top of their stuff at all because two of those six sacks.

came from down edge rushers who just didn't get touched. I think Leonard Floyd had one, and that's the one you just mentioned. And then I believe it was Zach Harrison who just like... The strip sack, right? Yes, the strip sack. The right tackle and right guard, they focus all of their energy on the detackle

and just leave the end completely untouched, which like I said, maybe that's the plan. and the back is supposed to chip the end or something. It's hard for me to say. I just know two untouched, unblocked sacks given up in one game at home, by the way, where communication isn't supposed to be an issue. That seems really shitty to me. Like that, I don't know where the screw up happened, but it definitely happened.

Yeah, they just looked not as clean as they were supposed to. And that on top of like, again, JJ, I don't think looked very well, very good in his own right. Like he is, I think this was even kind of true of him in college too, but like he just for the first like quarter of some games is just not ready to play. Like he just, I don't know if he's too amped. I don't know if he just needs to settle in. I don't know if like he needs to get like he is weirdly a quarterback who isn't good on the script. Like I don't know what it is. But early in games, he just always is like even the first throw of this game.

They like sprint Jalen Naylor in motion from right to left across the formation. And JJ's just immediately suspicely. supposed to throw it to him in the flash. This is a play in Michigan, by the way. They ran a billion times for him because it's a very easy throw. And he gets to the top of his dropback and he like fidgets around a couple more steps and then he throws it. And it's like, you probably ran this play a million times in practice this week. Like just throw the ball. And it's just little things like that that I think he struggles with. And then it was I think at the very end of that drive, they do the they try to sneak on fourth and one and they botch it and stuff. Like it's just not ready early in

games. And I think he settled in a little bit at the middle of the game. But then obviously, you know, things, things got a little bit out of hand even later. And so it just, he to me is like, again, this is why he's a guy who needs reps and the fact that he's not going to get them for potentially a month is incredibly troubling for this team. I'm going to say, classic case of a young quarterback who needs to play, because I will say there were, I could think of like three throws where I was like, yep, that's the talent they told me he had, like the throw to Justin Jefferson to set up the field goal at the end of the half. I think he had another one to Jefferson. There were two or three where I was like, yes, that is a big boy throw, JJ McCarthy. Well done. The Jalen Naylor one where

like to the right side where he puts him on like the four yard line or something like that, where Naylor runs that little like out against Terrell. Like that was one of those. It's like, okay, if McCarthy can make a couple more of those throws a game without some of the bad ones, then we're going to be in business. But he just for now has more of the bad ones than I think that you would like. Also a fairly costly game from an injury standpoint. I mentioned Kelly leaving Justin's school also suffered a concussion in this game. Aaron Jones has a hamstring injury. And on the Falcon side of this,

AJ Terrell suffers a hamstring injury as well. So the Vikings must be feeling like it's all against them right now between the JJ injury losing this game and everything else they got to be dealing with. I am really glad. We'll move on after this. But I'm really happy that you mentioned Billy Bowman. Just like a phenomenal like breakout performance for him,

almost had a second pick, I believe, right? Didn't it get like waved off? Yeah, it like ended up hitting the ground. But like he made a great play to work back from I think he was the flat defender on that play and see someone trying to settle in around the numbers. And he's like, oh, I'm coming back. And he almost picked that ball off because JJ was a little late. So he just, again, really outside of the one time I think he got beat by Thielen,

he played a really good game. There was a screen earlier on in the game that he stopped for two yards because he made a great tackle, which I am like reminding myself that half of great nickel. and safety plays, like, can you just tackle the guy? And Billy Bowman is checking that box for me. So pretty good player. One more thing I want to shout out, and I can hear Robert rolling his eyes at me as he listens to this later. But Falcons special teams were baller in this game.

And it's worth mentioning. They were really good. Like, obviously, you sit Young Wayku and John Parker Romo comes in and drills five field goals. But that's just the headliner. I also thought the Falcons kick coverage was phenomenal. in this game. Like they gave up six punt return yards. The Vikings average starting field position was the 26th. They started four of their 10 possessions inside the 20 yard line. And for good measure, they got a strip on a punt return like at the very end of the game when it was garbage time.

But just like dominated the Vikings in special teams. And that type of stuff matters when you have a young quarterback. I thought it was very fun. No, that's a really good point. Like that is one one of those things that again, when you're playing against the team like this against like the Vikings, it's like that, that stuff goes a long way. A very impressive week two for the Atlanta Falcons, looking more like the team. We hoped they could be. They got the Panthers next week. The Vikings, like we said, play the Jake Browning Cincinnati Bengals. We'll keep an eye on that moving into week three. Another game we wanted to get to Cam Ward going against the L.A. Rams. We will do that on the other side of this break. All right, Derek. I just, I think I'm just going to.

to have honestly, Titans Rams, the Rams beat the Titans, 33 to 19 in the early window on Sunday. Both of these teams are going to be really high on my list of teams I want to make sure I watch back every single week for basically the same reason

and that's, well, I mean, really the Rams entire offense is just a joy to watch as long as Matthew Stafford is back there doing his thing. And I also just want to see what nonsense Cam Ward is going to get into and we got a healthy dose of that. on Sunday afternoon.

We definitely did, man. Like this was, we talked about it a little bit, like what was, so Stafford against the Texans in week one, it was a lot of beating cover three and throwing over those linebackers. And that's a lot of what the Texans like to run.

And so my question coming into the week was like, okay, the Titans played a lot more cover two in week one. And we all talked about like, okay, was that because they were playing Bow Nix or is that what they like to do? And I think it was a little bit of mix of both.

Like the Titans definitely played a little bit more single high rotation where they were playing a little bit heavier in the box, but you still got some of the cover two stuff. And honestly, like, one of my favorite plays and throws that we got from this game from Matthew Stafford and the Rams offense was against the Tampa 2 looks. So like early in the second quarter, they're under center. They've got trips to the left side. And it's first down, the Titans end up bailing into Tampa 2. The number three receiver runs like this deep bender over the middle of the

field. And so the pole runner, he's got to run with him. So he gets cleared out a little bit. DeVante Adams, that's the number two, like kind of. settles in right under the deep safety to the left side, but not far enough across the field to where he's like running back into where the pole runner just ran to. And he just sits in the void and Stafford just rips it automatically. And it's like that's that's big boy quarterbacking. That's big boy football. And so I just, the fact that they were able to access a lot of that in this game. And then even when just they wanted to pick their one on once with Adams against leg jerry's need, they were also able to do that plenty in this game. So this was just my question was

like what was staffer going to look like against a very different defense from week one. And it turns out a very good quarterback is able to acquit himself quite well in that scenario. It's not exactly like groundbreaking analysis. This is exactly why everybody was excited about Devante Adams joining the Rams. It's why a lot of people view them as a Super Bowl contender. But it's just pure joy to watch a big boy veteran quarterback who can access every throw imaginable who has seen every coverage imaginable, who is not afraid to rip it anywhere he needs to,

combined with two receivers with just such an innate understanding of spacing and route running and where they're supposed to be. I feel like every single Rams game for as long as Stafford is healthy, which is hopefully all year, you can just pull up as many as like 12 throws where even if it's not like a jaw-dropping throw, you're like, oh man, that was really nice. And just like this is just a fun offense to watch.

And it's beautiful because they Puka Nakuwa and Devante Adams compliment each other really well in a lot of ways, but also in the particular ways that Stafford likes to play. And what I mean by that is Stafford is very willing to throw his receiver into a car crash. And Puckinacua is like, fine. I'll do it. Like I don't care. I'll go in there and do it. And like that's great. And then Devante Adams is I think a little bit less willing to do that.

But Adams is also like, if you throw the ball. anywhere near him at his feet, two feet above him, on the sideline, whatever. He just has this incredible ability to go find it. And Stafford is a really good guy of like, if I need to put a weird location on this ball to get it where it needs to go, I can do that. We have two weeks in a row now where Devante Adams has like, the only place Stafford could put the ball with like Adams' his shoelaces and he just scoops it off the ground and picks it up.

And it's just like, they have such a cool pairing of these two receivers for a quarterback like Matthew Stafford that just, I cannot wait to get 60. more weeks of this. We joked about it on Sunday while the game was happening. It felt like a very concerted effort to get Devante Adams going in the red zone. I counted five red zone targets, including three in a row at one point that just didn't work out. They did finally get it going.

I think Devante had a 16-yard touchdown on just like a go-fade type of ball to the back of the end zone. But it felt like they were very much trying to get that on tape, get that. Devante those looks in that part of the field. And so he winds up with 13 targets, 106 yards. And that's even funnier because very quietly, Puka has 130 total yards of offense to go with a 45-yard rushing touchdown. I pulled this up. Puka is currently third in the league in total scrimmage yards with 267. He's the only receiver in the top five. And he needed 15 fewer touches to get there than anybody that's around him in those stats.

Just an absurd player. So he gets that 45-yarder on a fourth and one, like, JetSuite, by the way, the, the angle that he erases where he like, so I think it's, I want to say it's, I think it's Xavier Woods. It's like flying down into the alley to fit it. Yeah, it was Xavier Woods. Yeah. And like, honestly, Woods is making, he takes a good angle.

He's squeezing, like, you know, what air is in the alley. like he actually squeezes it really well, but Nakuha just makes this like almost like a slalom runner, just like leans to his right and then like leans into the tackle leading above from him and like somehow stays on balance, works through another tackle and just keeps going in like that is just he is one of like five receivers who has true running back ability with the ball in his hands. And that in that particular scenario worked out as well as it could have. Like he's just just such a phenomenally cool player. I have to assume Xavier Woods.

were as big as dinner plates because he had it, man. He had it the whole way. And if he gets it, it's a TFL to blow up a Rams drive near midfield. Maybe you give your offense a short field. Maybe that's the type of play that can help you spring an upset against the Super Bowl contender. And instead, he's watching Puka Nakua celebrate like six seconds later. Exactly. And like for as much as I think this was all like a great Rams game.

And they played pretty well. There are two guys on the Titans defense I want to shout out. One of them is Xavier Woods. Obviously, he misses that tackle, which really sucks. But he had, he hit Tutu Atwell, smoked him in the flats early in the game. He crushed a tight-end screen to Tyler. Higby at some point, I think a little bit before the half. And then there was a point where the Rams were in the red zone like near the goal line.

And they try to run like a little tunnel screen to Pook and Akua. Xavier Woods just comes and blows it up. I thought he played really, really well, especially fitting from depth. And then the other guy to me, the rookie Oluafemi, Ola Dejo. The Rams tight ends were in hell against this man in the run game. There was a duo call early in the game

where he smokes Tyler Higby. There was another one where Davis Allen was like kind of slicing across the formation and he just blows him up. So and so if he can, their whole sell this offseason was like, we're going to get bigger and stronger on the edge. And the rookie is certainly helping them do that. It obviously didn't matter at the end of the day.

I mean, the Rams put up 439 yards of offense and even with a not as great as they would prefer performance in the red zone. They score 33 points. But I did think about y'all from the preview show because we talked about like what kind of funky shit is Dinard Wilson going to throw at Matthew Stafford and is he going to be able to catch him off guard? He did. Like he did do it in the sequence right before halftime.

Titans scored the crazy Cam Ward touchdown that we can talk about in a minute. Then the Rams get the ball back. and Stafford immediately throws a pick. And when I watched the dots, I laughed because Wilson had Cody Barton lined up in the B gap. And at the snap of the ball, he just bales the hell out of there and just starts hauling ass to the sticks. Dude must have covered like 18 yards of ground. And Stafford just clearly was counting on like the corner route being there and had no conception of a linebacker filling that zone and throws. what looks like a bad interception because like if you just watch it on TV,

it looks like he throws it right to the linebacker. But watching the dots, I was like, what the hell even is this? This is hilarious. And like what's funny is he almost got Bo Nix on the same thing last week where instead of Cody Barton, I think it was a Monty Hooker who was like lined up over the B,

sprinted out high into the flats and quarterback tries to throw it, doesn't see him come off. And Hooker didn't catch it. Barton did this time. And it's just like if he's going to be able to pull off that every week and catch a quarterback. once every game. Pretty good, pretty good way to be calling place. That sequence gave me a little bit of hope for the Titans in the long run because you put together

a touchdown drive, you pick off Matthew Stafford, you kick a fuel goal. The Titans led this game at halftime. Like the final score does not truly indicate that this was a scrappy effort for like three quarters. But that's because there's just there's just a lot to work on here with Tennessee other than Cam Ward making six fun throws a week, where would you like to start? I would like to start by reminding people that J.C. Latham did not play in this game. And you immediately felt that by the way. Like on, I think it was the second play that the Titans had the ball, John Ajuku, who is their back up right tackle, false starts. And so that puts him in second and 13. And then literally on the next snap on that second and 13, Byron Young just fris him around the edge. Like,

Cam Ward took some bad sacks in this game that were his fault. That one was like every quarterback in the league takes this sack type of sack. And so that was just like a tough start for them. And I think you felt that for a lot of the rest of the day. And so that hurt them a little bit. And I think that hurts a quarterback like Ward in particular where I think he's doing a lot of stuff well. And I said this in week one and we'll talk about some of these plays. When the ball comes out, Cam Ward looks really good.

It's just that he's having some moments right now where he doesn't get the ball out. And some of that is he needs to be throwing hot. Some of that is he's running around for longer than he should and maybe he should just throw the ball away. And so he's got some of those issues. But like when the ball is coming out, he's having some really good moments. And there were definitely a handful in this game that I was still like, man, he's when the ball is out, it looks as pretty as ever. Byron Young, you could, I mean, you could say he wrecked this game because on top of the early sack, he's the guy that got the strip sack that really turned this from a fairly competitive game. Yeah, I mean, it's 20 to 16 early in the four.

worth and that strip sacks sets up the Devante Adams go ball in the red zone and from there we're just running out the clock. So the Rams pass rush once again, very active. They get toward five times. He's been sacked 11 times on the year already. I do, it is a good caveat to note that J.C. Latham didn't play in this game, but probably not going to have perfect health along the offensive line. And on top of that, another, I'll just say disconcerting performance from Dan more on the left side as well. Like I don't, I don't have a lot of faith that the protection is going to be as good as as Cam Ward would prefer for most of this year. I mean, it will get easier. I think I should say that. I mean, it's going to get easier than Denver and the Rams to start.

But you're in a division with Houston. I mean, there's plenty more good fronts that you're going to have to play. So it's, it's not encouraging, I would say. Yeah. And like, that's, that really does throw a wrench in the calculus for this tendency offense. Whereas I think, I think, I think Cam Ward is very comfortable holding onto the ball and keeping his eyes down field. But in terms of pocket movement, sometimes he prefers to move laterally instead of up in the pocket. And given that the interior is actually pretty good, but the tackles now with Dan Moore not playing so well and the right side, obviously not having Latham, the tackles are just getting like exploded immediately. And he's not always stepping up into the areas that he can in the pocket. And so I think that is a little bit of an issue for them, whereas like at least if Latham was healthy, you could help Dan Moore on the other.

out a little bit and maybe you could have swash that issue just a little bit. Without bashing Cam Ward too much, I do at least want to bring up a handful of the plays that I thought were really good in this game from him. I wouldn't let you bash Cam Ward anyway. Like I just, this guy is so fun to play. And if you watch these two Titans games and like even on, even understanding that there's a lot he's got to work on and yeah, getting rid of the ball and not trying to do too much hero shit, even though it is really fun when he does.

but like I'm so encouraged by two games of Cam Ward and I don't understand how you couldn't be if you've actually watched these two games. Like am I off base in that? No, the good is like, the good is really good stuff, man. And like what's funny is that he, it seems like he's a quarterback that doesn't play with good timing

because he takes so many sacks. But I think like that is more of an issue of like he just likes to create and so he'll hold onto the ball. But in the moments where I think he does have to be on time and like knows what he's looking at pre-snap. and is confident in it. He does actually do a good job of speeding up his drops and getting the ball out quickly

and really speeding up his throwing process. To me, the best one that he has in this entire game actually ends up dropped, which is really unfortunate. But it's second quarter, four minutes, 40 seconds left. The Rams are like slow rotating one of the safeties down to run like this three deep, three under fire zone. And so there's a gap between the middle hook player and the corner trying to cover Ridley on this like 12-yard endbreaker.

he throws the shit out of that ball and puts it right on Ridley's face mask and there's just a little bit of traffic and he's not able to hold on but like that is to me you know I think we've joked about like Cam Ward kind of plays like Matthew Stafford that is like a Matthew Stafford makes that throw every week

type of thing and so the fact that Ward put that on tape I was like all right man again when the ball comes out it looks awesome that throw made me want to throw my laptop out the window I was so mad and maybe some of Calvin Ridley's drops in week one were admittedly really tough plays where like maybe I shouldn't judge him that harshly, this ball needed to be caught. And it would have been a third and 13 conversion in what at the time

was a close game. Like it, it pisses me off how, and Cam Ward's not perfect and the offensive line hasn't been great, but the veterans, the high priced veterans on this team are not picking up the rookie quarterback. Like Calvin Ridley, he's not been that guy. Like, he's not playing up to what the price tag says. Tony Pollard had a drop in this game as well. I thought he was good as a runner. But when you just, when you see the guys making all of the money, making avoidable

mistakes while the quarterback is fighting for his life, it drives me crazy. And it's, it's two weeks now where I think it's fair to say that. Yeah. And like, even I thought, uh, Zitler in this game was like a little rattled having to to play next to like a backup right tackle. And you could feel him really wanting to help him out, which I think led to even some, some own like of his mistakes.

And so it was just, it's, Cam Ward is again, he's making a lot of bad plays holding onto the ball and taking sacks. Like if you were to extrapolate his sack rate, he would take like 90 sacks by the end of the year, which is unacceptable. But again,

the good is really good. And this is, I know I've probably said this with other quarterbacks in the past, but like it's just there's something about the way that Cam Ward plays, the confidence, the arm talent that I'm like through two weeks, even though it's not been perfect, I'm still all the way in. I think it's, I say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek, but I'm at the point

where I just want to see the young guys ball because obviously, Elic, Eilich Eilich Eo Manor made like some amazing plays in this game. He had the crazy touchdown on the scramble drill that everybody's seen on social media, but he also made the like one armed sideline catch that got them into position for that score, which Cam Ward. playing beyond his years, by the way, because he hurries the offense up to the line and gets a snap off before anybody has a chance to look at that thing. It was under two minutes,

so it wouldn't have been a challenge situation. But you could see Cam Ward getting everybody set, like, let's run a play before anybody thinks to look at this thing. And then the Titans had a punt return touchdown brought back by a flag. But this is two weeks in a row where Chimre Deke, mainly as a returner, but like he's flashing juice on a regular.

basis. So my tongue and cheek suggestion is just let the babies play, man. Let Cam get out here with these young guys. If the veterans are going to piss me off every week, then let's just put the babies out here and see what it looks like because some of these young guys are coming through in a really exciting way. I agree. Like, D.K. with the ball in his hands and like, Iluk-I. Ion manner, like, he is, I think can be a frustrating player to me at times because he'll drop some of the easy ones. But the great place that he makes, like it was funny. I was actually posting on Blue Sky, like watching through this game before we did the show. And I got to the Ridley drop and I was like, can someone make a play for Cam Ward in this offense?

And then it was like the next drive, I-O Manor makes that play. I was like, oh, that's right. Someone did make a play in this offense. So again, yeah, the young guys can, this is going to be a process for all these guys. And I know it can be frustrating dealing with some of that early in the season, especially when you are, you know, not necessarily a coaching staff that is like locked into your jobs because of how poorly last year went. But I feel like you'll see the fruits of it by like end of October if we really get a lot more reps from these guys. ultimately a very unstressful win for the Rams.

They get to 2 and 0. They have, I don't know how much you've looked at the week three schedule, Derek, but they're at the Eagles in week three, which sounds,

I, that, see, I wasn't that intrigued by the Super Bowl rematch. I am very intrigued for a Rams Eagles rematch in 2025.

That sounds like it could be super enticing. But as sloppy and as disjointed as it's looked, and as far as they have to go, I just can't cam ward seems like he has it and I'm just I'm going to have one eye on their TV for the rest of the season and I won't apologize for it every single week and again on Wednesday mornings when I've got time for film all right before we get out of here we do like to take your calls we solicited voicemails on Sunday Beller I believe we have a couple of them so if you want to run them let's do it hey gang and I can confirm that the Jaguar stadium is not in fact built on an Indian burial ground, a pet cemetery, or any combination thereof.

That said, I was wondering if you could explain why every time the Jags fix a problem, three more of them spring up. Not enough targets for BTJ? Don't worry. We'll throw you plenty so you can bund them upwards with the Bengals defense to make highlight reels out of. Procedural penalties on motion? How about questionable DBI calls instead? And don't forget a smattering of drops in the end zone for massive point swings.

I know this is game two of year one, but is this franchise cursed? did we use all our good fortune in our first four years of existence? Thanks. I completely understand anybody that has angst about surrendering a lead and losing a game ultimately to the Jake Browning Cincinnati Bengals.

The one thing I'll pick out there though, Derek, is it's not as if they're not trying to get BTJ the ball. I mean, we talked about that on the recap show. There were several plays left out there by Brian Thomas Jr. I don't know what the, what the issue is if he and Trevor Lawrence can get on the same page.

If Trevor Lawrence can, I mean, it sounds crazy to say you got to stop throwing the ball to your number one receiver over the middle of the field. But maybe we can find a work around. But it's not as if Liam Cohen wasn't trying to get the ball into BTJ's hands. They have the opposite of what we've talked about with Kyler Murray and Marvin Harrison, Jr. whereas I think like Marvin Harrison Jr. wants to work over the middle of the field on these in breaking routes and Kyler can be a little bit iffy about the timing location of those. Trevor, I think some of his best throws are throwing over the middle and he's very willing to do it. He, he, the anticipation is good. The timing is good. And Brian Thomas Jr. just does not seem as

interested in doing it. The third and five where he just like stops his route and doesn't want to take the hit. That one is incredibly egregious. And then the one on the fourth and five like inside the 10 just confusing. Because he sits and settles as if he's waiting for the ball, like on the hash mark, which he should be on a shallow like that against zone coverage. I think that part of it is good. But it's almost like he was anticipating the hit too early. And that's why he was trying to turn really fast and didn't want to catch the ball.

It's just very frustrating about whatever's going on there. The other thing I want to point out, drops in the end zone for the Jaguars is actually not a new thing. This is something that they were doing like last year and the year before. I feel like it's been at least three years of this. Yes. Yeah, like, I forget who it was, but I remember like a couple of years ago or maybe it was last year, someone posted like a minutes-long highlight reel of Jaguars players missing catches in the end zone for Trevor Lawrence.

And it's like, this is just a thing that they do, no matter how talented this receiving court is. And so I do think it is bizarre that they've gotten to a point where they have with the chemistry of this receiver room where like him and Bryce Thomas Jr. I'm not on the same page at all. But like weirdly, he and like Parker Washington and Diami Brown are like locked in. It's just a weird, weird situation they've got going on there. It's funny because I simultaneously feel good and bad about the Jags where I'm like, I look at it and I'm like, okay, I mean, you had 400 yards of offense. He scored 27 points. If BTJ catches the fourth and five down in the red zone, none of this is a story.

And the Jags are a two and no team and we're feeling pretty good about them. Liam Cohen has gotten Travis E.N. going, which is very fun. It looks like all of the fun screen stuff that he was doing in Tampa is following him to Jacksonville. Like you can see that in their games where a lot of the fun play design stuff is there. It's definitely not perfect. But it's been good enough that they're a play away from being two and oh in my opinion. The problem is you don't get there. And we talked about the Jags defense potentially being a little fraudulent. And you can quibble with the DPI on the final drive if you want to, but you still had plenty of opportunities to stop Jake Browning from scoring 30 points on you. And you didn't do it. And so I'm not overly concerned coming out of that one game, but now I'm like, okay, you blew a winnable game and now it's Texans, Niners, Chiefs on deck. And it could be so much different if you just execute two or three things better.

and you, again, you have that cushion. I mean, ironically, it's the Bengals that get the cushion instead. I mean, that's the margin in the NFL, I guess. I think that's a great point. I think in terms of, like, how do I really feel about the Jaguars? I think in terms of like the win versus the loss, I don't really think it changes anything for me. Because, again, it was just like,

if that DPI call doesn't go the way that it goes, they win the game. But all the other stuff with like Brian Thomas Jr. And some of the other issues they had on defense, like that still would have been there. So win or lose, I don't know if that changes things. It's what you said about the cushion, where I think that this is a team where even in the best case scenario, this was probably only ever going to be a 10-win team. So you really needed to squeeze out whatever little wins that you could in these situations. And so to drop a game like this that you were kind of gifted by not having Joe Burrow in the game, extremely,

extremely disappointing for a team like this. I definitely, like, I feel fine about the Jags in the long run, at least right now. Maybe I will regret those words in a few weeks. But yeah, like a loss like this makes it difficult to imagine them jumping out to some kind of hot start, which would be an admittedly fun story in Jacksonville. But your road must be harder. I'm afraid, Jacks fans. We'll see how it goes moving forward. All right, we got one more voicemail, I believe, Beller. Let's hear it. I'm currently doing my commute right now in Chicago, where I live as a diehard Bears fan. And I am just ejected. Now, I predicted that we would start the season in O and two. I knew that there would maybe be some bumps in the road for a young quarterback

under a new regime, but I never thought that it would look this bad this quickly. The worst part, I think, is that as Robert said all summer, you know, at least this year we can't blame the process, right? Coach Johnson was the ball of the ball, Taylor Williams, Consensus, number one overall pick. We did all the right thing. So who's left to blame? I'll tell you, it's myself. My dad wasn't even a diehard Bears fan like me. He's a Bulls fan. He loves the Bulls.

I just happen to fall in love with football. And this is what I get. So the Bears still suck. And I'm an idiot. Feeling a lot of that in the Chicago area right now. Can I just say, and I say this with admiration in my voice, I am not punching down at any Bears fan.

But every Bears fan I talk to says the same thing where they're like, you know, I tempered my expectation and I thought it might be slow to start and I didn't want to get ahead of myself. And with love in my voice, that's a lie. Like every Bears fan was secretly thinking like, but what if it really is different? Like what if what if Caleb hits the ground running? What if the offense is just freaking awesome? We got all these high paid guys on defense. Like I don't really believe that any Bears fan actually thought it might start slow. And I appreciate that. The point is to buy

in and have fun and I admire Bears fans who can still let their imaginations run wild after all this franchise has put them through. I mean that sincerely, I promise. I just love how much that voicemail fizzled out. Like they just, they didn't

really know how to end their thoughts there. It was just like, I'm just, I guess I'm the problem. But you're not the problem. The bears are the problem. And I think why this particular loss, this string of loss is obviously the the first game where Caleb looks awesome for like the first half and then it just completely explodes and he just kind of falls apart. The rest of the offense falls apart. They can't run the

ball whatsoever. All of that is an incredibly frustrating way to lose. Then again against the Lions where you just stole their coach, you saw what he did to you for years. And honestly, the Bears offense looked like fine in that game. They still couldn't run the ball, but I actually thought Caleb Williams had played pretty well in that game. The second and 32 interception that he throws where he's trying to be a hero is a little bit ridiculous. But like otherwise, he played pretty well in that game. And then the defense just completely lets them down, which I do not think was part of the bargain here.

Like I think a lot of people probably expected the Bears defense to be solid. And I know they're missing guys like Jalen Johnson was not fully healthy. Kyle Gordon did not play this game. I think T.J. Edwards started this game and then did not finish it. So like they are a little bit banged up, even with that being the case. 50 points to anybody is just like inexcusable. Yeah, two things can't be true in this case. Oftentimes they can.

But right here, we can't talk about Dennis Allen being a difference making addition all summer and saying this could be their spags. You want to have a former head coach who is a defensive mastermind who can he can overcome all of this and weather these storms and come up with these game plans. And he's going to be a reason if the bears are good, why that's the case. And then at the same time, you can't say like, well, he has, he doesn't have Jalen Johnson. He went out hurt. So naturally, they're the worst defense in the league. Like, no, good defensive coaches scheme around that stuff in the league every matchup of every single week, or at least the good ones do. So I know that they're banged up.

I know the secondaries are wreck right now. I don't need you to even be good, but it can't be this. Like, you can't sell me that this is a difference making addition. And then the typical attrition that happens to every NFL team happens and it's 52 points and six straight scoring drives. That just doesn't jive with me at all. Because that's the thing. If they weren't even good in this game, but let's say they lose 21 to 31.

Where the Lions, that's a pretty good day. You score 31 points. We're probably not getting many voicemails because that's like a reasonable way to lose to a team that we think is really, really good. But 52 points against anyone

where a Monrano St. Brown is an incredible player, but has never scored three touchdowns in a game in his career and then finally does it to you here. Jameson Williams is running wide open. Like, Jamir Gibbs is getting whatever he wants in the run game. Like, it's just tough day. to be, to be like for the bears, I think there was probably some expectation of offense

might be up and down with Caleb Williams and, you know, fitting in new pieces in the run game. For that to have not actually been the problem on that day and it was actually your defense giving up 50, just a frustrating, frustrating couple of weeks. Can I share my half-bake take with you? I would love it. The reason the Lions scored 52 points,

it's not Jared Goff, it's not Dan Campbell, it's not Amin-Ross, St. Brown. It was Isaac to Slaw. when he made that catch that got them down to the goal line. Remember, 25 seconds to play, ball out past the 30 yard line. Like, it's not a given that the lions are going to score a touchdown on this possession. Maybe they kick a field goal. Jake Bates had already missed a fuel goal in the early going of this game. So you're going to get to halftime down seven or 10 probably. And then Isaac to Slah does what he does and makes another jaw dropping catch. And now a touchdown. is on the board and it's 2814. And the minute that happened, I was like, I do not trust this Bears team to manage a 14 point deficit coming out of half time on the road.

Like this is a recipe for disaster. And I'm not saying the Bears would have won, but I think if that end of half possession goes a little differently, maybe this is a more normal scoreline instead of 52 to 21. Yeah, to get that type of juice like going right into the half, like him making that kind of play, you get the lead. Like it's just that is the exact type of thing that for like a new regime, new coach, young quarterback can kind of rattle you a little bit.

I'm not, I'm not giving up on the Bears as a decent team. I think the schedule eases up a little bit. You know, we saw, we saw what the Cowboys defense put on tape in week two. I'd like to think Caleb can have some success there. So it's early Bears fans.

But once again, it is a disappointing start to the season. which even if you say you expected it, like I said, I don't fully believe you. And that's the joy of football season is we just got to play the games. All right. That does it for the week two hangover. We got plenty more coming your week this way, though. Don't you worry.

We will have Building the Beast once again in the middle of the week. We got the week three preview coming wall-to-wall content as per usual here at the athletic football show. Thanks to Derek. Thanks to you all for listening. I'll talk to you next time.