The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Thursday Postgame: Rams run over Saints 30-22

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

TAFS go LIVE on YouTube to break down the Los Angeles Rams' 30-22 victory over the New Orleans Saints, the offensive love affair happening in LA, and the lack-of-return New Orleans is getting on Derek Carr so far.WATCH: https://youtube.com/live/Unq5_BdMdJ0?feature=share Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? Whoa, I'm doing very well. It's at a night where it felt like the Rams were marching on the ground. It really felt like also I look at the team stats as I pull it up ESPN every time as I do on these live shows.

And I see 18 passing first downs, only to four rushing first downs. It really felt like the Rams had their way, even though it got close at the end. I'm doing very well. How are you doing tonight, Robert? I'm doing okay. This is a fun game. And it was a fun moment for the Rams. This is a team that we've talked about to the point of exhaustion. It feels like all season about how dynamic they felt on offense, how dangerous they felt on offense. And now we're seeing it. This was a national game, primetime game for everyone to watch right on the eve of the playoffs. And we say this about teams all the time. They'd be dangerous if they get in. They'd be dangerous if they get in. The Rams,

part of me a couple weeks ago was looking at them and saying, it'd be fun if they got in. Just from a watchability perspective, it'd be fun if they got in. They play an exciting brand of football. They're doing so many interesting things on offense. Now the last couple weeks, I've started to think about it. They can win a playoff game.

They absolutely could be one of these teams if they managed to sneak into one of those wild card spots with the way that that offense looks right now and how dangerous that offense feels right now. Oh, the offense is lovely. It's honestly my favorite brand of run game and my favorite brand of past game and a philosophy that I am fully a believer in, but everything look the same, using the same personnel, using the personnel to do everything. It's like, this offense is just everything because I've always been a duo guy.

So that was the thing before about McVay. It was like all the zone stuff. So I was like, all right, yeah, that's good. So now that it's duosentric and it's more at you, two big thumbs up for me. But this, this, they got, they were talking about, you know, Herb Street and now Michaels were talking to the night. They got the, you don't want to see this team in the playoffs. They went as soon as you get that mentioned, but I'm fully behind this one because I think this is an awesome team. The defense is funky.

They, you know, they play greater as a bigger as some of their parts than the, you know, everything is individual pieces. Aaron Dahl, having Aaron Dahl is very nice. But seeing all the young players stepping up and contributing how they're playing well, but then this offense, they can do both. They can run the ball at will and they can throw the ball vertically and create chunks, which is what you have to do. today in the NFL, they can match up against any defense that they face in the playoffs. And their defense could do enough to hold their own on their side. So it's like this team, I thought they'd be pretty dangerous. I just feel better by the week as I watched them.

They just look so good right now. There's probably a good chance they would play. I'm not looking at the standings right now in front of me. So if they got the seven seed, let's say they would play against the four seed, right? The three seed. They put seven seed, they got the two seed. Two seed. That's right.

I keep all the buys. So they play against the two seed. And right now that would probably be the Eagles of the Cowboys, right? Yeah. So right now they're the six seats. So they would play the Lions in the first time. I mean, they could beat the Lions. They could beat this version of the Eagles.

I think they could be any of those teams if they managed to sneak in. When I was watching this game, one of the prevailing thoughts that I had prevailing feelings was just how different it feels to watch these offenses play, how different it feels to watch Derek Carr compared to what it was like to watch Matthew Stafford right now. And that brought me back to where we were with these teams before the season started. The Saints were a team that paid up for Derek Carr because as they were. were trying to rationalize where they were as an organization. The thought was, if we drop a quarterback into this, we can compete in the NFC right now. That's the last little gap. Andy Dalton was fine last year, but if we get a real quarterback, if we spend on a real

quarterback, the defense is still elite, we have all these other things that can push us over the top. They did that. You watch this team, and they don't feel anything close to a team that's relevant in the NFC or a team that can make any sort of noise. This summer, people were talking about the Rams. like they were done. They were one of the worst offenses in football.

They were cooked. They had a six and a half over under win total. This was going to be one of the worst teams in the league, potentially. They were going to be picking near the top of the draft. Think about how different that feels right now. And to me, that's a comment on how quickly things can change, but also how important it is to have a real level of self-awareness

when it comes to what your roster is, what you could potentially achieve. And I feel like the Saints didn't understand that. And one of the most impressive things to me, about the Rams this off season is they knew exactly who they needed to be and exactly where they wanted to go with this version of the roster. That's it. They ate their vegetables.

They worked out. They got into shape this off season. Everything they do has had a plan. There's levels. That's why the offense is so cool. You can tell that everything is with a purpose. There's nothing wasted. Everything is a pristine play.

Everyone executes it very well. But they add layers each week. But you can tell that it's almost like, okay, we're going to sprinkle in this week because we got to set stuff up. And you can tell this whole offseason, they understood their personnel. Getting Nakua obviously boosted a lot of this. But this draft is huge. I mean, this draft is a potentially, I'm calling it franchise altering may be strong,

but you're getting yourself back on track so quickly by adding three or four cheap contributors in the way that they had in one single draft. It's been monstrous, the talent that they've added on both sides of the ball. Avela, Nakua, Young, and Turner in one single draft. and what they've gotten out of those guys. Even Davis Allen had some moments last week where I was like, okay, Davis Allen. This is one of those drafts for the Rams. There's no doubt about that.

The week one when they played the Seahawks and you asked me, it's like, does this feel like a playoff team? It was like what they looked like on offense. It was like, yeah, this is a playoff offense because that was so well thought out. And even how they've reconfigured the old line, it's like, like, like you said, they looked at themselves in the mirror. They're like, what are we? What do we want to do?

What's our best version of ourselves? It was almost like they kind of like left all the roster spots open, you know, probably other than Stafford and Cup, maybe Havenstein, and we're just like, okay, everyone else. That was about it. That was about it, though. Even on offense, that was about it. And I had a conversation with Sean McFa.

I'm comfortable talking about this before the season. It was the first day of training camp. We sat down in the team hotel where they have camp and just talked about the way the last year had went and some of the shortcomings of those Rams teams and maybe some of the shortcomings that he had in the way that he approached the job and just the way that he oversaw the franchise. I think he knew he needed to be better. And he knew that the staff needed to be better and that they needed to approach this in a very different way. And you can feel every ounce of that energy when you watch that team right now. And I think it's just so

important and so crucial to have one of those guys at the top. And we've seen the value of those guys so much this year. What Shanahan brings the Niners, what Sean McVeigh is for the Rams, when you have that catalyst at the center of your entire organization, when that guy is bought in and that guy is bringing the energy and that guy is bringing the vision, it can change things so fast for you. And that's where the Rams are right now. And it's exciting. It really is exciting. And it was fun watching, it's funny watching Stafford tonight because I had two thoughts. And one was, I wish he was younger. And I say that because I just wish we would have more of this. I wish we would have more years than maybe just next year or the year after with Matthew

Stafford playing with Sean McVeigh. And then the other way that I went with it was, I wish we had gotten 10 years of this. I wish Matthew Stafford got with Sean McVeigh when he was 25. Because think about the way we talked about Matthew Stafford when he was in Detroit. It wasn't this. We didn't talk about him this way. He wasn't considered this sort of player. Even if he had some fun moments, even if he was talented, I think it's so fascinating how differently we can see quarterbacks as their circumstances change. And I don't think anybody has been an embodiment of that more over the last five seasons than Matthew Stafford. The way that we talk about him, the way that we see him, the way that we'll remember him

is irreparably changed because he went to Los Angeles and started playing with Sean McVeigh. And I just think that's, it's really interesting when you think about how quarterbacks, careers go, the way we consider them and all of the things that maybe are subtly, hugely influential in how these guys are remembered and what we talk about them like. Yeah, the line of spots are everything. I mean, even just like a guy like Peyton Manning getting with a guy like Tom Moore and just those two just crafting stuff together. And you're like, thank God. You know, it's like Paul McCartney and John Lennon growing up in Liverpool together.

Even like Reed at Mahomes, though, the fact that Mahomes just got Andy Reed from day one. It's just so it's beautiful. Kindred Spares is a great way to put it. It's beautiful to see these sorts of football marriages. And it's kind of, it's like a late in life thing. It's like Matthew Stafford found the love of his life deep into his 30s when he spent his 20s, toiling away over there in Detroit. And he was a good quarterback, but this just feels so different now.

And the type of character he is within the NFL ecosystem is just so different now. Yeah, I think McVeigh and Stafford, who are very close in age to both of us, but they got what I have seen, having other sports too, they kind of got that fountain of youth through the young players. Think how different this feels. And like you were talking about last year, it felt like they just rolled the ball out. And they're like, hey, we're going to run it back. Let's do it. Let's get Bobby Wagner.

Let's get Alan Robinson. And that's how it felt. They felt old and creaky. Like the Saints feel now. Yes. Yes. And now you go from Alan Robinson to Pooka and Nakua, even at a 2-2-at-well. And then you go from Bobby Wagner to freaking, what's his name?

Christian Roseboom. I'm going to remember your name. But you go from that and you go from an undrafted free agent and a fifth rounder, but young guys. And it's just, again, they get that found out of youth. You can feel the energy. Like the whole sidelines, it's ridiculous with the Rams right now. You see him with Nakua after, like at the end of that game, when you just slapping him on the shoulder pad.

And McVeigh is having a fucking blast right now. The jet sweep in the Kuwait, runs over, runs through the tackle. And then, like, he gets up and his teammates think he's hurt, but he's like screaming because he's all fired up. And it's like, how do you not get fired up from that? When I went to practice in training camp, they had a lot of energy. But I was like, yeah, the roster is full of undrafted free agents, all these day three guys. Of course they have a lot of energy.

And it's like, of course they have a lot of energy. But it's great. It's, it's rejuvenated me a little bit because I was like, we know what the Rams are going to be. Some trick shots from Stafford, some rung. This has been a revel. a revelation that was staring at us, but they, they've been one of the nice, pleasant surprises this entire season, but in a good way. Like, they're actually good, which is fun. It felt like something ended last year. It felt like we were getting to the end of something with that core

players with McVeigh, with Stafford, and it feels like now they're just beginning. And for it to happen that quickly is remarkable. But again, it helps when you have somebody like McVeigh at the center of it all. On the other side of this with the Saints, this does feel like the end of something. This is one of the oldest rosters in the NFL. And their rationalization, as they built the team the way that they did this summer was, we can still squeeze out maybe one more elite year of the defense. We can get over the hump in this watered down NFC. That's my assumption based on all of their actions. I'm just reading the tea leaves from the way that they approach the offseason. Now you have a defense that is no longer elite, even if it's falling back just outside of the

of the top 10, Marshawn Lattimore's hurt, etc. But this just isn't a scary unit anymore, even if it's a solid unit. And the offense, his team's paid Derek Carr $60 million guaranteed. I mean, he's going to be the quarterback there next season if he wants to be. No trade clause. No trade clause and $52 million in dead money if they were to move on from him. This is what it is. And you think about all the young pieces on the Rams and all the young, exciting pieces on

the Rams. Who are the young, exciting pieces on the Saints? outside of maybe Olave and then a couple of pieces on the defense. Yeah, a couple of ds and yeah, yeah, a couple pieces on the defense. Offensely, it's like Juan Johnson, Alave, but the offensive line has just been,

you know, injured and disappointing, different degrees of that. And that's kind of it. You know, Rashid. Sheed, I mean, he's a fun player. He's an exclusive rights free agent after this season. Yes, yes. But as far as like, you know,

a lot of the other pieces around that, it's not great. It's not great. Not a lot of building blocks. So they have the car situation to maneuver next year. They're $87 million over the cap. It's the same old story we tell every single year. Of course they're going to restructure everyone and get under and be more flexible than people think just by reading that number on over the cap.

But these things are going to start to catch up with them. It's going to happen. I believe Andrus Pete has a $13 million cap hit next year to not be on the roster. James Winston is a $10 million cap hit next year to not be on the roster. At a certain point, this is going to be a multi-year process for them to dig themselves out of the bets that they made and the financial decisions that they made over the last couple years. And when we get to that point, it's going to be ugly. And I think you could probably make an argument that that process should start as soon as this off season so they can get it kickstarted as soon as possible and get out of it as soon as possible. But either way, no matter how you slice this, they are looking at a dark couple years at some point down the road because I'm,

I don't know where that quick turnaround comes for them in the way that it came with the Rams. It felt like they convinced themselves so much that they were hosted as Stafford Rams and even the Brady bucks. I don't think that. I think some of that was. I think that's what they bet on. They were just like, hey,

hey, we'll drop it in. What get all these vets we got? We got nice pieces. We got a couple of young players too. All right, let's do it. And it's more like you kind of got samey.

You got a little half tier kick and you, but you paid four tiers more money. Like to do so, that's the difference. Who do you think has been a better quarterback this season? Baker Mayfield or Derek Carr? Baker. Yeah. Yeah.

Baker. And it's just, which is crazy. The bucks paid Baker four million dollars this off season. Four million to be their starting quarterback. Yeah. That was the investment. And they weren't in that dissimilar of places the Bucks and the Saints. The aging roster, some holes.

You paid a lot of these pieces. You know, we maybe try to get the last great couple years out of a Levanti David and some of the other Mike Evans, the aging pieces. And the Bucks decided, you know what? We'll pay Baker four million. We understand what we are. We'll see what happens. Exactly. Let's take a deep breath as we've stepped out of one team building period and essentially into another. And the Saints never took that breath. And I understand what these teams are fascinating. Because they're all, they've gone through this little crossroads from the wait 2010s to now. It's like, yeah, they all had different resets. So yeah, this is great. And the Saints never had the reset.

And I respect them trying to consistently win. As a fan, I would want something like that more often than not. Because I do think that there's value in that. I do think there's value in consistently trying to be competitive. But it comes with a price. There's an opportunity cost with all of these things. And we're looking at the price right now for the Saints. I said it a couple weeks ago.

You're watching them and you think about all of these short-term kind of hedge moves that they made where they're pushing the chips in. And for this to be the final result just leaves you so incredibly cold. It is such a starkly different experience to watch that team and watch the team that kick the shit out of them tonight and think about where they both are. It's uninspiring is the word I keep coming back to it. And it's funny because this Saints team had their version of the 2023 Rams draft in 2017. When they also in the same thing, they were kind of stuck in the buck.

They were going six and ten, six and ten, seven and nine fun offenses. I think that's ballpark where they were going, but fun offense. It was like seven to nine every single year because the offenses were great and the defense were historically bad. And then everyone's like, man, how are they going to get out of this? Because that's when they started maxing out the credit card. And then it just revamped the entire Saints franchise rejuvenated. That limit up by about 10 grand.

Yeah. Yes, I'll update my income. But that's what they did. And that's what I mean, look at the chiefs nailing a draft too. I mean, this is just what it can do when it can reconfigure your whole team. Like, but it's, yeah. but when you miss on draft picks, like shoot,

Trevor Penny. And that's the one that will loom large over the next couple years because of what they did to acquire him. And again, it's that rationalization of we think we're close. If we trade up and get a left tackle and what they're thinking

this is all we need as opposed to. Yes. And I think comparing that to where the Rams were last year is very good. When the Rams made similar bets last off season, it's like, if we get Alan Robinson, if we do this, if we, they almost traded two first-round picks for Brian Burns.

They almost did it. They tried to trade for Christian McCaffrey. So I just think those, that sort of mindset, that's right. That's right, Shannon. They were trying to do this. That's right. So the moves that you ultimately don't make and the investments that they ultimately didn't make ended up becoming huge for them.

And I think taking a step back and taking a deep breath every once in a while is good for these teams. And the Rams did. And look where they are right now. The States didn't and look where they are right now. How about who tried to sign Alan Robinson and ended up not and traded for a different The Eagles. The Eagles ended up trading for A.J. Brown.

Again, it's sometimes the moves he miss out on end up working out for you. Real scheme, scheme wise real quick. There's some fun stuff tonight other than everything that the Rams do because it's amazing. But Rams defense. The third down stuff was really fun. And Sam did a great job of pointing it out if anyone watched the Prime Vision, but pointing out like the as opposed they're doing the five oh looks that we know with the ramps they're trying to single up Aaron Donald. Sam being a former officer officer officer officer lineman uh I can points knows what he's talking about here so I appreciate it.

So it's a former it's a five oh look they're trying to create five one on ones across the board for Aaron Donald. The Saints are doing what a lot of their teams do now, which is they slide as opposed to everyone's single block four guys sliding for three. Let's keep Camero in to block Ernest Jones who's rushing right now. but it burned them right away because Ernest Jones B. B. He's a very good blitzer. It's a really good blitzer. I mean,

this is like a thing that they can do. It's like he's a weapon as a blitzer. But I thought it was awesome in the second half. I actually was going to give the Saints props because they adjusted. And then the Rams adjusted to that, which was watching the third down sequence is a lot of fun. So what they were doing was they would put Aaron Donald on third down, the Rams would on the running back side.

Why I saw this is they cut to the play really early. And I saw Aaron Donald going, And okay, left, left, left. And I was like, I know exactly what you're doing. All right. So they shipped over there. The Saints were smart and actually Carr did a nice job. He slid the line to that side.

And so, you know, and pointed Camarret, hey, you're going to cross protect here. The Rams brought an extra blitzer because the other linebacker was manned coverage on Camarra. But it was just like such a fun chess game. But again, Rahim Morris has been doing a kick-ass job this year that he was already on top of it. And then the play that let so all that led up to the next third down, which was the Rams went, okay, all right, they're doing this. They adjusted protection. Okay, we're going to rush three,

have Ernest Jones hug rush, they call it, Camara. So it's rushing four, basically. And they ran a zone. Car, they kept getting manned. So he thinks he's going to get an overrout. Herb Street actually did a great job of pointing it out. It was supposed to be an overrout.

He thought he was getting man coverage. Boom, there's full worth for a pick, just waiting there. Right. It was just a nice little sequence. But again, this defense can do enough. Even if it's kind of a no-name defense outside of Aaron Donald. It's like, they do enough and they can funky up stuff to stay to be competitive. That's why I'm so optimistic about this team on top of the offense.

Every single time we have a conversation about head coaching candidates for next year, Rahim Morris's name should be brought up. I, everything that's happened over the last couple of years has made me a little cautious in terms of who I'm going to say is going to be a really successful head coach when they get that opportunity. I think where I'm going to stop here is because who deserves to be in these conversations? Who has done enough with his current role to be justifiably in the conversation? to be a head coach. Rahim Morris is very much up there at the top of that list.

Based on what he has done over the last couple of years. And we can go back through everything about Rahe Morris beyond the job he's done as that defensive coordinator. He was on the offensive staff in Atlanta for a couple of years. He's cross-trained that. He's coached in every single defensive system that you could possibly imagine. He coached in the four-down cover two bucks era way back when he coached on. He's a mighty kiffin guy.

He coached in Pittsburgh when they with that tree with all the fire zone stuff that they do. He came over and learned the Fangio system and was the only coach that was new on that staff after Brandon's daily left. This guy has seen a lot of football. He is. See how he's cover three. That's right. With Dan Quinn in Atlanta. So he has seen everything.

And I think a lot of his presence in the building and what he's meant for that staff. And you could see the energy with some of these young defensive players. If I were hiring a head coach this offseason, I would want to have a conversation with Rahe Morris about what he sees and what his plan would be. That that's where I'll leave it because I do think those qualifiers are going to be important as we continue to have these conversations. I actually like too that he had an opportunity before and failed because a lot of guys learned from their experiences. Not everyone could just stick the landing like McVeigh and Shanahan. He was 32. It was 10 years ago. It's unbelievable. Remember those teams Josh Freeman?

He's the quarterback. Remember that? But he, I actually think sometimes that's the best thing that can happen is a lot of these kids. Right? That's a name. But, but, I actually like that. And he's now gone from, okay, so he's the head coach, 2011, he got fired.

So he's been under Shanahan. Then he was under Quinn and Shanahan because then he was on offense. Then he was under Shark. And I mean, he's just done like different things there. It's just, I don't know. There's just a lot to like. Like you said, different experiences is great. It's not the same.

Some of these guys get kind of the same. samey tree, I guess. And then it's like they only know one way to think of, look at the Patriots guys for years. It's just that's a thing where they just, they don't get other outside experiences. I think it leaves you susceptible to problem solving. Like, you're having issues with problem solving because you haven't had to solve a lot of problems. It's why older defensive coordinators are sometimes interesting, because they've seen so many

different things that you can solve more problems. Why Belichick didn't blink when he's seen some of all the stuff that seems new and invoked because like, this is just the same thing that Army did in 19. 1968. So I know what my answer is going to be. 64. Yeah, they did this with like Archie Woods. And he was running deep posts from it. Yeah, exactly. But that's the thing. We've talked about this off off air. But it's, I really think that's why Spags and Jim Schwartz, these older coaches that have had experiences from the odds. And now they're the older coaches now. They have that experience to draw back from. So I think really they, they've had an advantage. And I think they have some answers to. Shanahan stuff, which is what, eight offenses have some roots in it, give or take. So that's nice to have. So like you have something that you can draw back from 2007 or 2008 15 years ago when

some of these guys that are coaching against you were in high school, like, you know, or in college. Like that's a real big deal just to draw that when that's what the ebbs and flows to the NFL sometimes. There's a chance that McVeigh has to replace another coordinator again if Raheemorese gets fired away. I feel a lot better about his ability to do that now than I did. over the last couple years.

And I think that the way that they filled out the staff this offseason is very indicative of where he was and where this organization was. There was a level of intentionality taken to those hires in the way that they built this thing in a way that I don't think there was over the last couple years. And I think that's why this Rams team feels different. And that's why the results that you've seen are different. So there's a chance they lose a defensive coordinator to be a head coach. There's a chance the saints lose a head coach because it might be time after these last

couple of years of Dennis Allen for them to potentially go in a new direction if they do feel like they need a reset. And I don't think that's where the Saints wanted to be when they made all of those all in moves this summer. Nope. If we had reversed this conversation, like if you told me at the end of the year, you're like, hey, Saints are doing some cool stuff and the Rams, you know, just feel rudderless. Like, you know, it's crazy how a few months and some inspired coaching, inspired moves and players playing well can just alter so much, especially, I don't know. I love the comparison that we're making to the Rams last year, man. It's like, That's just, that's what they felt like they did.

They kicked the can down the road. They're like, whatever, it's rolled out. Let's just keep doing the same stuff. And it's stark to see how inspired they feel and how inspiring the saints feel. Inspired is the right word. I do think that's what that building is this year. And I think that you and I both saw it in training camp. And sometimes that stuff can be a little bit misleading, but in this very specific case.

And you can go back and listen to the conversation I had with Jordan from that camp and just talking about what that team felt like and what practice felt like and why I just thought if Matthew Stafford was on the field and he was going to be healthy. this year. The idea of them winning six and a half games and being a bottom three offense or bottom five offense was just inconceivable to me. And we have arrived at that moment. Not only is that inconceivable, they are one of the best offenses in the league and a truly dangerous proposition if they managed to do this and get in. Yes, no caveats. Bunt. I fully, fully agree with that. All right. That is all we've got. Week 16 Thursday, Football in the books. We only got one more of these, my friend. I saw that. One more of these next week. Browns Jets, the Joe Flacco revenge game.

You always know it's a good, good, good, juicy game when the two players that they bring up there are non-quarterbacks. That's, that's, they, they had either, I think they had sauce gardener or Garrett Wilson. I was sauce gardener and mouse. Garter. Yeah. That's how you know. Two defensive players.

That's, yes, it's going to be a good one. It's going to be two great defenses on display. So at least we will have that to talk about. For now, it's all we got. Sincerely enjoy the holiday friends. if you would, please go listen to our week 16 preview, which is available in your podcast feeds, as this is as well right now.

The Ravens Play the Niners on Monday. Game of the year. We talked about it probably half an hour on that preview show digging into every single nook and cranny of what that game is going to look like, plus a couple more of the highlights from Week 16. So please go check that out for now. That's all we got.

Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.