The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Titans tear apart the Chiefs, the Bengals might be legit, chaos in Carolina, Zach Wilson & Justin Fields growing pains & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: October 25, 2021

As the storm of week 7 settles down, Robert Mays and Nate Tice react to the biggest storylines like Ja'Marr Chase taking over the Rookie of the Year conversation & the Bengals themselves perhaps being for real, the Titans emerging in a muddy AFC, chaos with the Carolina Panthers after benching Sam Darnold, growing pains for Zach Wilson with the Jets and Justin Fields with the Bears and more as we look to week 8. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight is my good friend Nate Tyson. Nate, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing well. I saw Halloween kills last week, and this might have been, this slate of games from the NFL might have been better schlock than Halloween kills was last week.

Because this was just an atrocious set of games. We had three double-digit spreads, and it lived up to that. I think lack of hype is the best way to put it. I'm very jealous. I was going to watch it yesterday. I was watching in the basement and my girlfriend came down. fiance came down. I'm getting better at that. My fiance came down. Thank you.

And she's like, what are you watching? I'm going to watch Halloween Kill. She's like, well, can we watch something else? Because I want to watch something too. So we just watch more sopranos. So I'm a little jealous of you. My comparison that I'm making is that this is the weather events that was happening in San Francisco. They called it the bomb cyclone or whatever that actual term was.

This was a bomb cyclone of a week seven in the NFL. So I. don't know what to say about this. It was a disgusting set of games. I mean, Lee Sharp had the best best stat ever. It said he, before the Sunday night game,

he said, this week's games have had the second highest average margin of victory since realignment with 19.2 points. The only one higher was in 2009, Week 7 with 20.3. The best game was Falcons dolphins. Yeah. Which if you had told me,

that would be the best game, the game worth watching today. I'd be like, oh, man, I guess because of all the terrible games, but it's still surprising. So we're going to go through what is an ugly week of NFL games. We're going to start with our first 15, which we do on every Sunday night show, the same way an NFL team has a first 15.

So do we. I want to start with the Chiefs beating, excuse me, the Titans beating the Chiefs because I think it says a lot about the shift that's happening in the AFC a little bit, how muddy the AFC is, and two teams headed in opposite directions. The Titans obviously get that win over the bills on Monday night. A game that they absolutely could have lost, and I really didn't know what to make. make of their performance in that game. This is a team that lost the Jets earlier this year. And then they come out. I wanted to see them play the Chiefs tight and maybe give them a game.

And then in my mind, maybe how they fitted the AFC shifts. And then they stump them. Then they blew them out. So now it's like, I got to reevaluate a lot of different things. Let's start with the Titan side of this because we'll plenty of time to do Chiefs panic here in a minute. This version of the Titans is the best case scenario for them. You know, we talked about their offense a lot on Friday's show. and what we wanted to look like.

This looked like a lot of stuff they did last year. First completion is just under center play action, quick turnaround, refer out to AJ Brown. It's like, there it is. There it is. That's the song I want you to play first. And they kept going back to a lot of that stuff and the defense played very well. Did anything jump out to you today that was surprising or notable?

Or did you just kind of feel like, yeah, this is like the best version of what this Titans team looks like. We talked about how we wanted them to play their greatest hits. Yes. And it's like this today, I think may be playing. the Chiefs defense. Maybe the Chiefs defense gives you good acoustics. So that is a great venue. Yeah, great venue. So they, I think it was kind of like they remixed a couple of their good hits. Like they're like, hey, we have a little modern, modern twists on it. Like, because they, I'm just going to just

keep stretching this metaphor as much as possible. It's going to be a rough show. You do what you need to do. I know. We just got to entertain ourselves on this one. But like, like, so those in breakers, they hit them all day. They do have different varieties. We talked about last week or on Friday show that they're kind of like just trying to sprinkle in a couple new things. Like they're trying to go 11 personnel. They're trying to maybe throw a couple different runs, a couple more drop back passes, more play action out of the gun, a little more of that kind of stuff to kind of sprinkle in so they're not just so they don't telegraph everything on every single play. And you can just see it today. Like they have like new wrinkles.

We talked about last year and then now this year as well, they'll have the end breaker and then they'll have a post with it. They don't have the end breaker and they'll have a corner with it. This week all of a sudden I saw they had the end breaker. They had a deep comeback with it. So it was like, okay, now they're throwing. Okay, here comes. You know, they had the slider. Now here comes the change up.

They had another pitch to it. And when you have two guys, it's hilarious how old school this offense is. Like this is traditional like football, like just single up outside and just run mirrored routes and just like that's their dropback game. It's just like when you when you have two studs, why don't overthink it when you have just two good players like that that are finally healthy. So that's what's nice to see with this offense is you can see it now kind of come into fruition.

It's like things look a little better with a healthy AJ Brown and a healthier Julio Jones to go along with Derek Henry. And I mean, you couldn't ask for a better game script. I mean, speaks to what their drives were. There was no explosive plays from Derek Henry. They're all like eight-yard gains, six-yard gains, seven-yard gains. And he got bottled up a decent amount today. I mean, what's not you is running over the Chief's defense.

Their run defense was actually okay. But they had no answer for Tannahill throwing the ball. 21 to 27 for 270. Do you want to know what his play action stats were? Actually, I do, yeah. Nine of 111 for 173. Again, just shut up and play the hits, baby. That's all I want to see.

But like you said, there are some. cool wrinkles. And you saw that. They threw two play action passes out of shotgun. I looked at the numbers because it seemed like more than that because they were exposed to plays. There was the one to Julio that got them inside the 10 where Julio just like a little tiny sit route, got it, yak.

And then there was another one where they hit Pruitt up the seam. And they had Jet Motion. It was beautiful play. They had Jet Motion going right to left, just a little bit of eye candy and then play action out of the gun and Pruitt right behind the linebackers. I'm wondering, I haven't looked at the numbers on this. it seems like they're using way more jet motion than they used last year. Especially out of the gun.

Yes. Like, yeah. And so it's just one more little wrinkle for them. Like we said, they're figuring themselves out and what they want to be. And I still think that they're trying a lot of new stuff. And those elements out of the gun are there, they're putting AJ and Julio on the same side in stacks. Yeah. And see.

So it's like, what do we want to do here? It's like, all right, if you're going to be in man, this is a way that we can get these guys some free releases and it allows them to do some stuff. they had a flood concept to the right side where AJ ran a whip as the flat controller. It's like, all right, this is stuff that I haven't really seen a lot of then combined with just deep in breakers off play action. So I'm excited about this offense. I mean, I just think that the talent and the way that they're being deployed, I think that they're going to be a lot better over the next two thirds of this season than they were at times over the first part of this season. Because one, the receivers weren't playing. And two, it just seemed like they needed to find their footing.

So I am, this is one of those weeks where even it's the Chiefs defense. So it comes to the caveat, but it's like, I can, you can talk me into this. Like these guys and this offense, I am more excited than I was three or four weeks ago. I can tell you that right now. It's, it's hard for a defense to that going against them to have all the answers that they can get to. Again, they, they're going to be a game script dependent offense. Like that is their one, I say the one weakness of it is that of course they, if they're down two, three, two scores, three scores, is that it's going to be very hard for them to just keep dropping back and going.

But the thing is, if they're within one score of the game, they can just keep, they can keep up with anybody because it's, it's just so hard to either load the box. And if you want to play too high, it was hilarious. It was like they were just running. There's this, uh, we called it, we called doctor, uh, duo doctor, uh, when I was with the Raiders. So we called it doctor pass. And it's like, this is just old school offense.

And this is like, I mean, 90s, Norv would do this. My dad's done this with Lanhan. Was you just get a hip formation. if it's too high, you run duo. If it's single high, you run mirrored routes with your receivers. Well, they were doing a lot of cans today. So it seems like those are the options. I mean, they must have done it a half dozen times at least where he's just like can, can't,

and then they just went whatever the option was the defense gave them. It's as simple as football gets. And what it's great, it's good football. What do you have the players, when you have a personnel advantage, NFL with all the parity that happens, all the injuries that happen, it is finding what advantages you have and just eking them out as much as possible and spamming it as much as possible. That's all that is. It's just going, all right,

you want to be single high, I bet you can't keep up with Julio Jones and AJ Brown for 60 snaps. That's what they bet and they kept winning that bet. It was just good on them. It was a good game plan. And then, I mean, just every drive was awesome. Every drive was eight plays, 10 plays, 12 plays. They just played it perfect. The two throws he hit down the left sideline to AJ Brown in the first half, I think,

are emblematic of just what they were doing. The first one, like you said, single high, Matthews walked down. They tried to spin it late. Wasn't going to work. So it's just one on one on the outside. he hits him for a huge gain. And then the touchdown that he threw to him, they brought pressure.

And Tanna Hill, I don't, there's not a stat for this, but I would love to know the quarterbacks who do the best job and have the best numbers with not a lot of room to work. Like how much space is around you in the pocket? When things are crumbling on him,

he gets balls off that like very few guys do. He is not phased. The phone booths. Yes. Phone booth completions. He's got to be up there. And so again, it was just fun to see.

them in that mode. I want to talk about the defense very briefly because their pass rush was very good today. And I think that can lead us into some of the Chiefs conversations we want to have. But Harold Landry's had an amazing season. I haven't watched a ton of Harold Landry. He looks like Von Miller. Apparently. I mean, his getoff in this game was crazy. I mean, he is exploding off the line of scrimmage. And then the other guy that played really well today was DeNico Autry. He had, I think, six pressures today, lining up all over. the place. Like, as a nose on one, there was one play where he lined up as the nose on the left side.

Then they had two guys to the right. He crosses the center's face during the place. Now they have an overload front as the play happens, and he gets the pressure. And then he's on the left. He's playing left defensive end, like three plays later. Him bouncing around plus Landry playing as well as he is, that was big for them today. I mean, Mahomes was under pressure and bothered the entire game. And that was a group that has been a concern for them for years, literally years,

because they haven't found that guy. Last year they paid Clowny to be that guy. This year they paid Budupree a ton of money. He had a couple of plays today. But it's guys that they didn't really pay a ton. Autry was a free agent. But the fact that they've found this kind of through the back door is, I think, is very good for that because they're going to need that on defense because their secondary is a mess.

So that's just something else that I noticed over the course of that game. Exactly. That's what they need. They need to disrupt a four because they just don't have the horses to hold up in coverage throughout an entire game. It is what it is. I know they played a lot more soft stuff. And when you win with four pass rushers that compliment each other very well, it just, it works.

But yeah, we know Simmons, we are, we are higher on Jeffrey Simmons. And it's like he, you know, he's, he plays well. If he even doesn't create a ton of pass rush by himself, he's at least rugged and at least can disrupt and wreck stuff. And same with Autry. But then when you just, it's kind of more of a sum of their parts with all these pass rushers, which if, if you play against a team that can like maybe get, you know, has the tackles that can hold up against some of this stuff. It's like, okay, maybe then it's not as great. But if you get a team where you can create this advantage,

like the chiefs just are wholly, you know, like HOL, EY, as opposed. And that way it's, they just took advantage of that. They have enough guys to, like, create that separation, create that edginess up front. The chief's offensive line did not have a good day. Mike Remmers is playing right tackle for them now. He had some issues with Landry in certain moments. Orlando Brown had not a great game again.

And now it's like, okay, what are the chiefs? like we just kind of expected this to be the week where they got back on track. Oh, yeah. And that didn't happen. So now, where are we? Like, what are our expectations for them over the course of the year? Are they just not one of the teams in the AFC? And because the AFC is so muddled, what does that mean for the larger conversation?

It's just, it's one of those weeks where I expected some things coming out of this set of games that I did not get. And now I'm not sure what to do with myself. I'm just, like, so frustrated with them. like on offense. Yes. Disappointed in them. This is very disappointed. I know.

We're not mad at all. No, Patrick can't do much harm to me. But it's watching them, if this is what it's going to be. I still think there's no true answer to stopping the chief's offense. It's just themselves, beating up themselves. But if these defenses are making it so hard on them by running two man and soft coverages, you're seeing more and more two men. That's why you see Mahomes scramble more.

And the people are just beaten up Kelsey all the way down the field. if no one's going to call that, like you just have to adjust. Like we saw the Rams have to adjust their run game, you know, a couple of years ago because defenses started run the 6-1 stuff and not when that happened. When you're a top unit, everyone's going to throw everything they got at you. And it might not seem sexy what these defenses are doing against them, but they're making it hard. And if you can just keep the ball away from them and it's like, well, if they do make all these mistakes, like they only get nine cracks at it.

Like because they're turning the ball over. Their defenses is letting up these long drives. So it's like, okay, if they make these one mistakes, now these teams can take advantage of it. And it's just, and they just have to like look themselves in the mirror and go like, okay, what we're doing is obviously not working. We're built to beat single high teams. That's what they have dominated the last couple of years. So teams are going too high, which we have beat before. But maybe we need more designery plays that can beat this stuff.

Backside digs, different formation stuff, just stuff that's down the field that attacks cover two. And you have a quarterback that can do it. You have receivers that can do it. Like those older Annie Moss teams, I've referred to my dad's a lot of different. is twice as a show. It's like, but when you beat, like the, they would cloud. Everybody would cloud it. When I mean cloud is covered too.

Cloud them all the time. That's why you saw it all the time against Randy Moss. And that's why the Vikings always had great run games, high DVOA run games because they just had these soft boxes. It didn't matter who the running back was. The chiefs have to figure out what that is. Yeah. It's not going to be an under center,

heavy eye formation stuff, obviously, but they can't just keep living in this spread world. They have to take advantage in a different way. They have the horses to do it, but they just have to tweak what they are. because right now it is really just frustrating. Another guy that made a couple splash plays. Talk about the run game.

You talk about turnovers. David Long had another couple of really nice moments in this game. Beyond the pick, which was not cheap. You know, that was just down the field, getting a hand on a ball, making a play happen. He had a TFL where he just read it from the start, where he's just knifing into the B gap before the play even almost begins. It's like, all right. You're like, that guy, that's what this defense needs. Again, you just kind of unexpected performances and unexpected guys stepping up.

That's what they got today. He reads the game really well. When they beat the Ravens in the playoffs, I think he was a rookie. And he had a really good game off ball. It was like, who is? He's like 511, 200, like 18 pounds. And it's like, but he reads, he's like a little missile. Like he just reads the ball really well.

So it's kind of cool to see him kind of crop back up. So now if the Titans are going to play like this and the Chiefs are going to play like this, what the hell do we make of the AFC? I mean, so the Bengals. Did you look at the standings? So it's ridiculous. The Bengals, Ravens, Titans and Raiders are all five. and two. The Chargers and bills are four and two. The Colts after winning that, I don't even

know, we didn't talk about that game. Winning that just monsoon game, they're three and four now. Like everyone is just bunched up in the middle and I don't even know how I'd begin power ranking. I believe still right now, the bills are still the best team. I just think top to bottom, they're the best team. Baltimore, we'll talk about them in a second here. I think they have some clear holes. Their deficiencies are obvious to me. The Bengals, again, we'll talk about them in a second, but I mean, they looked excellent today.

I still don't think they're top to bottom built like the bills are. So it's really muddy. I mean, I just expected the chiefs to be there at the end, even with their struggles. And now it's just, I really don't know what to make of it. I mean, I think you just kind of wait and see how it sorts itself out. But I still think if I'm listing them off, the bills have their own spot at the top. How about you're a Chicago Bears, the Kingslayers? They have the wins over the top two AFC teams right now, the Bengals and the Raiders.

Like that's just, hey, Matt Nagy knows how to get them up for those big games. Oh, my God. That's what it is. But I have nothing to make of it. I think I can't almost copy and paste what you just said. I think the bills are the number one for me. And then after that, it's really honestly two through 12. Yeah.

And it's like, it's kind of fun in a lot of ways. but it's like I think a lot of these teams, once they hit these biweeks and regroup, we're going to see that's when we're going to just see huge movement from some of these teams. They're going to adjust and some teams aren't going to adjust to what they need to do. I think that my takeaway from today, though, is that Tennessee is closer to the top of that group than I would have anticipated. And when coming into this year, when thinking about and talking about the Titans, my concern was that it was going to be just a diminished version of what we'd seen from them over the last couple

years. Are they really better? How could they be better? and if they're not significantly better than they were over the last two years, if this is just trying to bring this back and cobble it together in a way and try to resemble what you were, did you make a step toward the real good teams in the AFC? And now there aren't that many real good teams in the AFC.

So that conversation isn't as relevant in regard to them. So they're more, they're players in a way I didn't anticipate because the top isn't as elite as I might have anticipated. So it's good news for them. All right. Let's get to You Have My Attention, which is something we do every single week. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention.

Every Sunday there's a lot going on. The buys were nice today. But every Sunday, there's a lot going on. And we try to peck out two, three performances by a team or a player that just made us stand up and take notice over the course of the day. And we need to start with the Cincinnati Bengals. Because even if you thought this was going to be a game they could win, I didn't expect them to win like this. I was waiting for this type of performance from Cincinnati. I think you and I were both in wait and C mode because the wins that they had gotten were not over very good teams.

They lost to the Bears like you just mentioned. They lost to the Packers. It's like, all right, I want to see them make a statement against a really good team or just a pretty good team. And they did today. I mean, they really beat up the Ravens in an impressive way on offense and defense. Yeah. And that's what it was. It wasn't just the Packers game was like, oh, it was close.

but it was like, I mean, that was a fluky as fluky games can get. I mean, just for a few reasons. So that's why I was not going to go like, oh, they played a good team tough. Like it was more like, well, really, I can't really take. That's like you can't really take too much away from that game. And even starting week one, they played the Vikings tough and they beat the Vikings. And I was like, oh, man, that was a fluke too. Vikings were the better team that day.

And it's like, you know, we got to wait. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard to take the plunge sometimes. And this was a really good performance from them. I mean, and really, really good performance of, of some of their star players or what the guys they count on, aka Joe Burrow and of course, Jamar Chase, but especially Joe Burrow, really kind of like taking when it's not a perfect

situation and creating something out of it. I think his pocket movement was so good today. Totally. It just, it was, he unlocked so much and he was able to attack down the field because he was able to move in the pocket when it wasn't a great pocket a lot of the times. And having a quarterback that, yeah, doesn't have the greatest arm strength. but the fact that he can move in the pocket and get the ball out on time, you see what happens.

It's hard to keep up with their guys. They, I don't agree with maybe how they built the team, especially on offense. Like I, of course, always going to be an inside out type of guy as far speaking to line play and receiver play.

But it is when you have a guy, you know, picking and popping like this like Joe Burrow is right now, it is hard to keep up with that, especially against the defense like the Ravens that want to play in so much man coverage. They had to get out of man coverage because they were just like, oh my God,

we can't keep up with these guys. We can't, like, We're going to talk about what Chase did later. But it was a really good performance on their offense where it's like it's not perfect. It's not. I'm not going to say this is a great, great offense, but at least they have answers to sometimes some of the stuff that's been hurting on in the past. I don't want to spend a ton of time of Chase right now because we're going to get to it later.

But he is special in a way I just didn't see. I mean, that that's all there is to it. I mean, he has elements to his game that I did not pick up when I watched him. I always thought, I didn't think he'd be a bad player. I just didn't think he was worth a top five. pick because in my opinion the group of receivers that are worth top five picks the list is this long there's like three guys on it and that is just that is something that I've always believed that when I talked about it and wrote about it it was more so just where do you find great players at

these positions yes I was never on team sue or team chase it was where do you find great players at these positions it's harder to find great lineman than it is receivers but he is special he is different in a ways that I think I do want to get into and you showed up in so many different examples today. Going back to the borough thing, I thought that the perfect play to kind of exemplify what you're talking about

with the pocket movement is the touchdown to Uzama. It was, they were in 13 person. It's a combination of you're putting your guys in good spots and your quarterback making a great play. They were in 13 personnel with Odin Tate was the only receiver in the field, which I think is very funny.

Right? With all the guys. Yes. So he comes in jet motion from right to left, brings the slot over, brings a corner over with him. And then they have, have, I can't remember the guy's name, but 84 comes on like a big crosser from the left side. So the safety sticks down with him. And then Uzama is on the right side. So Marlon Humphrey is on him because he's the corner to that side, but he has heavy outside leverage.

And then he comes all the way across to the left. So it's perfect. You have your, he's giving, you're giving your guy leverage advantage from the start. And but to make the throw, Burrow has to side step someone in the pocket and get that ball off. So it's just a situation where it's a good play. It's a well-designed play. It's a good time to take a shot. It's a good way to package a shot play. But Burrough still needs to make that guy miss in the pocket in order to make that happen. And that was the type of day it was for them where you have these moments where

schematically they're in a good spot and then their guys just make plays. It happened over and over again for them today. And even the plays where they didn't have it schematically, like, because, you know, their insistence on going empty and five man, like they, Burrow was missing, making a guy miss and they're making a throw. And it's like, that's why he's the number one freaking pick. That's why you want guys that can create. That's the thing is I'm going to keep saying it.

Even though he has limited arm strength, he makes it freaking work. And that's why he can win. It's as long as you have an answer to winning. Like, you know, you have a way of getting yourself out of a jam. And he can't because he's athletic and big. And he can throw on the move. Like, that's a good combination. And it's, it's kind of cool too.

I just mentioned that, that they go into empty and stuff. They did make a tweak. And we're going to talk about this later. It's funny. We're just like, okay, put a pin in this and put a pin in this with the bagels. But it's like, they did make a bit of this. tweak today on offense. I am going to talk about later. Don't want to spoil it, but it's like, okay, I'm going to give some props to the Bengals coaches. Like what's something they did to stop some of the

Ravens pressures on third down, especially. And I do want to give a lot of props to the defensive staff as well. Yes. Because coming into the season, one of the reasons that I was down on the Bengals offense, just in terms of their ceiling, was because they were, they were number two in cap spending on defense without any stars, without any difference makers. When you look at that defense before the season, there was nobody that you would say is a true difference maker on that side of the ball. And it hasn't mattered. They've played so well and they've been so well coached and so well deployed on that side that it doesn't matter that they don't have any stars on that side. And I think today was a perfect example of that. You look at the pressure numbers today and the

sacks and all that. That was not because the pass rush was dominant. The Ravens were on their third right tackle, which was a concern. Macari got hurt. So as Hubbard had his way with whoever was over there for a good chunk of the game. But Lamar held out of the ball for longer than anyone in the league this week. 3.16 seconds, average time to throw for Lamar today, which was the highest rate in the league. He had nowhere to go. Yeah. And they did such a good job of keeping him off balance because they were doing something different every single third down.

They'd drop eight every once in a while. They'd bring pressure every once in a while. And the pressure numbers today were very notable. So, God, I can't find them right now. but he was bad against the blitz. They blitz Lamar a lot today, and he was objectively bad. I think they blitzed him on 10 dropbacks, and I want to say he was two of eight with two sex.

So that, and typically, what's the book? You cannot bring extra pressure at him. Every time they did, it worked. And that was just a great job of just like, all right, you have no idea what's coming. And you could see that. He just didn't know where he wanted to go with the ball on every single defined passing situation because they were throwing so many different things. at him, which is a testament to the game plans, testament to coaching.

Exactly. And yeah, both sides. And like, that's the thing is like the Ravens got caught with their pants down a few times today. Like they, they, I honestly think that Ravens' offensive staff got out coached because it's like what you're saying with those timely pressures, anytime the Ravens were an empty, I wouldn't say every time, but most of the time, they checked into a pressure. They would just mug up the guys and bring one extra.

They'd bring six or at least drop a guy out and make it five against a five-man protection. And you're just getting a free run around the mall. And that's fine. Like Lamar can create. But that's a guy just with a short path, just belining right at him. And if he can't get a throw off or he has an angle to do his creation stuff, it's like, that just leads to shit. That's what happened on that fourth down where you kind of like flailed it up.

It was because they just got another free runner. And it's like, yeah, again, it just speaks to that. And also like they were, they frustrated their Ravens protection so much that they full slid, full slid the line. But they're also keeping Patrick Carrad in. And he was having like the block D.Ns one on one. Yeah. And it's like,

times when you get when you get an offense doing that that's like they're throwing throwing up the white flag and and you're getting an advantage on it because they're just like we're done trying to sort this out and then on top of that you get an advantage so it's like yeah props of them i found the numbers two of eight for 10 yards two of eight for 10 yards with two sacks no quarterback in the league had a worse EPA per dropback one blitz today at the lamar jacks that's us wow they did a great job they did just a little tiny tweaks too they had moments where they'd have Wilson and Von Bell, like, walked up into the A gap and the B gap. Bell came.

He had a free rush on one play. And then it was a nice little tweak. It was a third in one or a third and 11 with like 14 minutes up to the second quarter. Wilson engages the center of the guard and then drops out. So that guy's wasted. And then he's sitting there if Lamar runs. So just little tiny things like that. I can't see what's happening in the back end, obviously.

Like that'll be required a rewatch. But what they were doing at the line of scrimmage defensively was very impressive over the course of this game. Yeah, it's good stuff. And we will talk a bunch of Marchase here very shortly. So, but it's just a big picture kind of take away from this. And we have to pay attention to this team. I mean, if they're going to play like this and they're going to have this sort of ceiling

and Chase is going to play like this and they're going to be this well coached on defense where they have this group that doesn't have any real stars on it and everyone just kind of chips in in ways that are kind of subtle but important. Hendrickson is, we know what he is, but like that guy plays hard. That defensive line plays hard, and they're back seven just consistently in the right places. And they don't have any guys that I think defensive coordinator or offensive coordinators are losing sleepover. Like it's not we have to just tailor our game plan around this one guy. And that's a testament to what they've done with this group.

They're still being really good. Yeah, they're like a diacoke version of the bills. Like that's what they're kind of doing. Like it's just a sum of their parts. And they're, like you said, they're all taking turns on it. All right. Let's get to our next guy here. I want to talk about Derek Carr, because Derek Carr has played extremely well over the past two weeks without John Gerton.

I think there was a huge question of what would this team look like in the aftermath of all of this? And they've played fantastic. I mean, Carr was 31 of 34 for 323 yards today. Over the past two weeks, he is 49 of 61 for 664. He leads the league in EPA per dropback over the last two weeks since. they lost their play calling head coach. And he's playing at an extremely high level and has for a good chunk of this year. And again, I don't really know what to make of it in the grand scheme of things.

But I know that right now he's playing in a really impressive clip. He's the only fourth quarterback in history to go over 300 yards and complete over 90% of their passes. It's Drew Brees, which are like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Craig. Makes sense. Yeah. Craig Morton. Okay.

And then Marcus Marriota. was the third and then it's Derek Carr's the fourth but it's like okay his backup was the third one but it's hit like watching this raiders offense it's kind of just it's weird it's like a fever dream a little bit the going vertical out of heavy personnel it's like they can't really run the ball that well like it's miss it's like you think they will be like you're on oh they're all these tight ends and everything they got they paid all this money for kenyon drake and they got josh jacobs and it's like it's okay the run game but it's like the fact that everything is just getting so vertical and they have such, I always use this word, but I'm going to use again, such a nice

synergy with the receiving parts. Yeah. And Carr just is like trusting what he has. Like if you're going to sit, we've talked about a few times on the show is that Derek is a very cerebral guy. He's a lot smarter than people give him credit for protections and just knowing what wants to get done. And that's sometimes been as negative is that he would get to the check down too quickly because he's like, well, they faded back. They're fading back. But sometimes it's like, well, you got to hold it for an extra second and then like create a little more sync yada yada yada he'd almost be too fast with his stuff and i think it's like this eagle's defense which is or uh which is just also another like great acoustics uh is that they are going to sit in static coverages and they'll give you whatever

you want underneath do whatever you want and derrick is too smart for that so now this kind of new version of derrick who's attacking more intermediate and deep as opposed to going all quick game i mean how many they ran so much switch verticals today they ran so many four birds concepts like every variety you can think of and he just kept hitting seam balls and bender balls or checking it down because he was just going one two three four five i hit my fifth foot boom went a rip it was incredible how on time he was today 2.14 average time to throw and it was all down the game it was just yeah everything so good i mean it didn't matter if it was it was a little swing is where it was supposed to go if it was an inbreaker and renfro was where it was supposed to go the one the throw he hit to zay jones

down the right sideline was hilarious he did like a wind up like you would if you were like playing catch in the yard. He had the ball like this, took his arm off of it, and then through it. And I was like, oh, my God, that's when you know the guy is feeling it. He ripped it. I mean, that was a 47-yard missile shot. He has the arm to do that. Yes, he does.

So it's cool when he does. And then the touchdown to Moreau, that's just that back shoulder ball, perfectly time, perfect placement. And we've seen that a bunch from him this year, where he, if you know, he knows what coverage you're in, he is going to be comfortable taking shots like that and putting the ball in tight windows like that. I mean, he's been really impressive for stretches this year. I mean, today, again, it's not the most downfield game from him compared to what he's done over other games this year, but still just the ball going to the right places consistently. Yep. And they got nice

pieces for it. And that was with Darren Waller out, which is like, which would have been some of my hesitation before this game was like, well, we'll see. He really likes the pepper room when he's feeling like a little stress. And it was like, it didn't matter. If you, if you can't beat him with man. Like that I would say that's always the weakness with Derek was it was man coverage when we played the chiefs. They just run man against us the whole game. Because he was on a big scrambler then.

And if you're not going to run that against him at all like the Eagles did today, it's like, oh, good luck. Because it's just he's going to find the right guy. And they have a lot of nice pieces, especially those, those types of guys, a lot of super role players along with Darren Waller. And it's nice. Them playing like this, it brings us back to the AFC conversation. It's like, well, where do the Raiders fit in all this then?

And I have no idea. I'm still worried about the line. I think the line over the course of the year will be a concern. They've had to do a lot of moving around of those pieces. And I think that's still something to worry about. But the defense is okay. The defense is feisty. They have those pass rushers and they're giving offenses problems.

So if they can be fine on defense and Carr can play at this level, it's like, what are they in the grander scheme in the AFC? And I have no idea what the answer to that is. None of it. One through 12. That's what it is in the AFC. It's one through 12. It's great.

I have no idea, though. I don't want to do this because I feel bad at doing this to Raiders fans. But if there's a world where the Raiders decide after this season, we want to start over. You know, we're going to have a new coach. It's where Derek's contract, we can get out of it. Let's just start over. Let's press the reset button. Let's just decide as a franchise, this is what's best for us.

And that might be what they do. It's not unreasonable for them to come to that conclusion. I was talking to somebody today in the league, and I was talking about how, you know, if you want to move on from your quarterback next off season, are there going to be that many defined upgrades? You know, is there a Matthew Stafford next spring if Rogers doesn't move teams and Wilson?

Is Derek Carr that guy? Like, are we going to get to a place next spring where these teams that need a new quarterback, is he playing at a level that your replaceable quarterback can't play at? And I don't want to, again, I think the Raiders might be a good team this year. I don't want to do that to them right now, but it's just a conversation I recently had, and I was just trying to think about what those options might look like.

And maybe he's that guy because he's playing really fucking good right now. I know. And then it's like also it's like what I know. And then also it's the price tag because it's like, all right, what is one tier or two tiers worth of upgrade at quarterback worth to you? You know, like that. I know. It's just a great philosophical question too.

I did not expect a Derek Carr to be the possible quarterback upgrade teams could go to the next off season. but if he's playing like this, he absolutely might be that guy. Yeah, and we might be going down that path. All right, very quickly,

I want to pay attention to the fighting Dan Campbell's because I was impressed. I was impressed with just how they threw the kitchen sink at the Rams early on. It was a great moment. That like 20 minutes

where it seemed like they might have, they played them hard, but that sequence of fake or onside kick, fake punt, fake punt, that's what you want to see from a team that's just completely outgo. Yes. It was making a Marvel reference, but it was the first fight with Thanos on his on his planet. And it was like they all just brought it at him. And like they were just beating them up. And it was like that's all they had. They were just that's what they had to do. Everything. Everything. Just every possible ounce of energy they had. It was every superpower they had. But that's that's what it kind of was was that they knew they were a double digit underdog. That's why I wanted to talk about this. It's like knowing what you are is a strength, good or bad. Like it really is not just.

football but in life. But it's just going like they went up 10 points against before the Rams even touched the ball. And so it's like that is that that's that's what you want to do. Like I mean, that's if you want to give yourself a chance, that's what you have to do. You obviously know you're outgunned. But that's so funny. Like I just like the they go fake punt and then they went outside kick and then they followed

up with a fake punt on the same drive. It was like, which is yeah. Okay. Just got to empty it, man. Yeah. There's no reason to hold anything back now. It's playing craps, hitting the hard way and just, hey, I'll press my bets. I mean, that's what they did.

It was just, that just cracked me up. It was kind of a hat on a hat, but it's like, whatever. But, you know, they've played tough. We talk about every week. This is ideal if you're a Lions fan. You know, it's a lost season. You know, your top three pick almost guaranteed. And it's like, but our guys, they do some fun stuff on offense.

I have actually been really intrigued with Anthony Nguyen and those guys are doing on offense. Like they just every week do a couple of fun things. They're like, oh, the Lions. Okay. That's fun. You know, their whole team plays tough. And it's like, okay, it's like, I'm not like, it's not like a shit show when I watch the lines.

It's like at least it's like, at least entertaining, not just for the press conferences, but with their actual play. And honestly, the last thing I want to say with Dan Campbell too is like I do love. It's not the raw, raw bullshit. It's one of their corners got beat in the end zone. I think it was Hig B may have scored. I'm trying to remember who it was. But the corner comes off the field. And then they show Sean McVeigh just, ah, that other thing, like headbutton his guy.

and then they showed Dan Campbell talking to the corner that I just got beat. I want to say he was a rookie and he's just like talking to him. And you can tell what he's saying is just like, hey, we're going to need you. Like, because obviously they are this year. They all got a lot of talent. But it's like, but it was like, all their corners are hurt. All the corners. They were relying on hurt.

But he's like just just pumping them up. And it was like, yeah, that that shit matters. It really does. When you're in a tough, tough situation, it's like having guys fight for you as players and for each other. It really does matter. And it's kind of cool seeing a coach like that. They play hard. And that's exactly what you'd hope for out of that team.

team this year. The one other thing I wanted to mention about this game, Matthew Stafford was insane against the Blitz. And he has been all year. So today, he finishes 10 of 11 for 142 and three touchdowns against the Blitz. He's all from next gen stats. On the season, he is 48 of 63 for 698 and 8 touchdowns. He has plus 47 EPA on the year against the Blitz. No other quarterback is higher than 30. And he never scrambles. Never scrambles. Never scrambles. When you have that arm, you don't need to scramble. Just he's like the last of a dying breed.

He's like the classic gunslinger. Like he's just sitting back there, just lean him back, shooting a six shooter. There were a couple plays today that I'm assuming on a rewatch, if you do not see them live, you will absolutely love from Darrell Henderson and pass protection. Yes. He had the one where they brought him back into the formation was like, it was very heady. And then he clips both linebackers in the A gap. multiple times in this game.

Multiple times. He did it from the gun on one play. And then I think a little bit later in the game, he was a sniffer right next to the center. So sometimes we see that a lot this year against teams that run AA stuff. They'll have the running back, even when the quarterback's in the gun,

the running back will be sitting right behind the offensive line in order to not give those guys any sort of momentum, just shut it down right away. So he's a sniffer up there. It's like five minutes left in the third quarter. They ran blitzed both of those guys. he gets a piece of each of them.

Stafford, as he's falling back in the pocket, just whips his sidearm ball to Robert Woods for on that third and six. It's like that's the shit they're doing right now. The running back has been doing great stuff in pass protection. They know exactly how they need to block that up. They still almost get there, but their quarterback can get the ball off at these ridiculous arm angles, and they still make a play against the blitz.

So good luck. They had the one play out of empty. That's why I freaked out about it. just like a little thing one. I don't think they even got a completion on this. But it was they were an empty. The play clock's running down. Stafford's killing the play with like five seconds left. And Henderson's all the way split out and he's running back into the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And usually those guys try and I'm going to be honest. I don't try to be too mean. But runnybacks are usually not the most game situation aware. Like they they are not usually the most heady guys. So some

are and it's awesome. But it's like some aren't. Henderson as he's jogging looks, looks at the play clock and sees like four seconds. He just starts. It's hauling ass and gets back into the backfield and gets set like right away. And it was like, again, we've talked about this on the show is that when your unit takes ownership, when every guy on the field is taking ownership of not just that play of their responsibility, but the entire concept and just the game situation, it's like that's what good units do. And that's just like a little example of what like, I don't say he's a role player. He's playing well this year, but it's like those guys stepping up outside just the stars.

And I think that against the Blitz and in those moments when things are imperfect, that's another example why Stafford's big for them. Golf, I think, was 25th in the league. And EPA dropped back against the bullets last year. When teams brought pressure, he just, he couldn't handle it. That's not how he's built. And when things get muddy, when things get just mucked up, sometimes you need a guy can just make a play.

And that's what Stafford has been for them all year. So it's why you go get a guy like that. All right. It's now time for the State Farm, surprisingly great performance of the week, presented by State Farm. I want to talk about Kyle Pitts. I'm not surprised Kyle Pitts head.

a good game because he was excellent in London before thereby. But I do want to talk about, and I was surprised about how dominant he was in this game and the ways that he was dominant in this game. It's starting with every week we've seen kind of like the growth of that offense with him. It's like, I don't even care what I love Calvin Ridley. Like I love a few guys on their offense. It's just like, I don't care. I just want to see how they use Calvin's because it's like first week. It was like, I think in preseason, it was like, okay, they use them as a time. hide in. He ran on like a naked where he just,

you know, split across the field. It's like, okay, okay. All right. And then we see him against the box. And it's like,

oh, they used him in the slot. And then it's like, okay. Then the next week we see him in heavy, oh, in London, they're in heavy personalities,

run the post. And then it's like, okay, all right. And then this week, now he's just straight up receiver at times. Like, he's just AJ Brown. That's it.

That's what I hoped he would be coming into the year. Yeah. I think I said that multiple times. Like, I just think he's going to be AJ Brown. And today, that's what you saw. Like, his first big completion is just a glance route off play action.

It's just the same shit we've seen the Titans do. So you look at, I think 30% of his snaps this year have come out wide. And if today is an indication, that number is only going to go up from here because of the things that he can do from out there. I mean, he ran multiple just go balls, fades outside the numbers. Early in the game, his first one, the one-handed catch was against Eric Rowe. So it's like, all right, you're playing man coverage. You have a safety on them. That makes sense.

The one he hit at the end of the game to get them down to kick the game winning field goal, he beat Xavier and Howard on an outside release on a fade to essentially get them in range to win the game. Yeah. Unicorn. Exactly. Unicard. Yeah, he's 6-6. His arms are like a teradactyl.

He just turned 21 this month. Like, he can finally go to Buckhead in Atlanta. So, like, good on him. And I'm like, he's the classic mismatch. he's too athletic for safety. He's too big for corners. Way too. Like if you're running zone,

he's also a huge target that knows how to use his hands and find soft spaces. It's like, and he can get vertical on you. So it's like how do you block or how do you just defend this guy? And the thing is we, so what did you say? It was 30% he's been split out. So 30% exactly.

A third of the snaps. He's split out. Okay, if that bumps up to 40%, give or take. and the fact that he can stay on the field no matter what, how they use him. wing tight end in line split out way out split in the slot however they want to use them it's like

that's when he can stand the field for 50 plus snaps he is no matter what a mismatch no matter how he's deployed no matter how he's deployed do you know how hard that is in the game of football it's we it's i'm going to talk about a few times on the show but it's like match matchups and creating those matchups and just extending them as much as you can and creating it just pounding away at him when you have a guy no matter where he lines up on the field is an automatic matchup a nightmare for the defense. It's like, that's fun. And that's what you saw today too. And he saw him in every single way.

There was one play. I think it was a third and 10 at one point in the second half. He just essentially drove Eric Roe like eight yards down the field and then turn around. Yeah. And just caught a ball for a first down. So he's physically dominating a safety that's in front of him. And then he's running slot fades against corners for 40 yard games. All pro corners.

I mean, it's the guy is going to be. It is second. A problem. At tight end. So 471 receiving yards in six games, the most ever by a rookie tight end. Is it really? Yes. The most in the history of the NFL.

You know who he surpassed? Mike Dicca. This really stood for like 60 years. Oh my God. And it's only going to get better from here. I mean, if this is any indication, it's only going to get better from here. He is on his way to being an absolute superstar. He's one that is a concern, no matter.

or what you do with him. And that is exactly what you're hoping for. When you draft that like once in a generation tight end fourth overall, you want him to have an advantage every single way you use him. And that's exactly what he did today. Yeah. And someone had a great tweet. I just had to say it was like replied and said,

Falcons have a great one two receiver duo and tight end Kyle Pitts and running back Cordero Patterson. Because they'll just, they'll line up with no running backs. Technically no running backs on the field like they'll, or just or no receivers on the field. Just split those two out as they're. the receivers.

It's like, I am selfishly. I am glad they're interesting. Yeah. I was going to be so disappointed this year if that team offensively was unwatchable. It's boring. I know. Like with Arthur Smith and these guys that they're going to be boring and terrible,

I am so glad that they are worth watching and exciting because I just needed that. That was going to be that like, that light going out was going to be so sad for football fans and now we don't have to worry about it. Calvin Ridley scored. So it's like, okay. All right. All right. Some fun things happening in Atlanta.

All right. Remember, guys, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. We'll be back in a second. Why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight-year-old? All right. It's time for explain yourself. Every single week, we pick out a couple teams or performances that just need a little bit more explanation

because really hard to wrap our heads around. And today we're going to start with the Panthers who bench their starting quarterback. It's this is not a good situation. I don't really know what else to say about it. I mean, this has gone south so quickly. The first three games the year, it's like, okay. You know, like we talked a lot about it. It's like they are presenting the offense to him.

He's doing a very good job of like, all right, this is what I'm supposed to do on this play. This is, I'm reading high to low on the corner. If it's a smash. If the corner sinks under the corner, I'm hitting it to the flat. If he gets to the flat, I'm hitting the corner. He was doing a very good job with the simple things they were asking him to do. He was playing much better than we'd ever seen him play before, but the wheels have come off this thing.

Over the last four weeks, he's dead last in EPA per play among 36 quarterbacks. He's completing 56.3% of his passes, and he's taken 15 sacks over the last four weeks. He's dead last in the league. And now beyond him playing poorly, it's like, all right, now what the hell do we do? And that's kind of the problem with what the Panthers have done,

is they've put themselves into a very, very complicated situation. about what they do with their quarterback and what they do with this team moving forward. Well, it's always just been confusing. It's what timeline are the Panthers on. Like no one knows. I mean, literally, I don't think they know.

It was giving them. The target's moving. It's constantly moving. Always. Yeah. It's like a comic book timeline. It's just moving rec on all time. It's like,

you know, they just, the canon changes every day. And it's, that's exactly what it is. It's like, they gave a rule like a seven-year deal, I think it was.

And it was like, oh, okay, they're going to hear for the long call. They're going to three, four year plan, you know, kind of almost like build it like a college. And it was like right away. They're like, nope, we're trying to win right away. Let's get Teddy.

But at first it was like, oh, they just want competence. And then I was like, okay, if you get Darnold, all right, all right. It's just an interesting path. It's a very hard path to make right to get right. Like, you know, it's for every rich Gannon, you know, reclamation project, there is dozens, hundreds of bad ones of ones that just end up like this. And I've been a darn old fan and how this first three weeks, I should say fan, but I've been an optimist. You have been more optimistic about him than most people have been. And it was kind of funny.

It was like after the first three weeks, especially the Texans game, the Thursday night game, people are like, hey man, Donald's looking good. It was like, yeah, wait until they play a real defense. I was like, yeah, yeah, he does look better because it was like in those situations. It was fine. The pass protection was holding up their offense aligned. That was a concern that going this whole season was like, it's still a concern. Yeah. Cam Irving's at left tackle.

It's like, that's very, very scary. And then just like that's like, that's what that was supposed to be like their big move. Like like for their old lie. It was like, oh, man. And what they want to do now that I don't want, I think I want to jump ahead. But it's like this path they went on. It's just you're Robin Peter to pay Paul. It's like, okay, we'll get this quarterback and we get him for two years.

We do this. But then it's like we hurt the old line. We give him weapons. The defense is on a different timeline. Like nothing makes sense. It's just like everyone thing just starts. Everything sounds like a good idea. Let's trade for a DB.

Let's trade for another. other deep like they just are like just doing shit just to do shit and it's just by a lot of shiny objects yes and it just seems like that's what it is it's like there's no long term planning it's it's finc McMahon booking w i mean honestly that's the best comparison i have like i have for it it's it's bad so today i mean it was a disaster on every level 16 to 25 for 111 yards he took three sacks he had an intentional grounding in the end zone it's just bad quarterback bingo yeah and he was yank with 13 minutes left they were only down by 12 points. It's not like the game was over. And then after the game, the way the

rule tried to explain it, he's like, I considered pulling him earlier, but I didn't want to embarrass him because I know this is going to be the conversation all week. Yeah, man, you traded two picks, including a second round pick next year for this quarterback. When you bench him, and you're paying him $18 million guarantee next year, when you bench him, yeah, it's going to be a conversation. Yeah. And that's my, I think that's my concern. It's the same thing that you said. The tariff is just always moving. I just don't think they know what exactly they're trying to do. And now we bring in another complicating factor to the situation.

Joe Person from the athletic today reported that they will be in on the Deshaun Watson conversations. So now you traded a second round pick for this guy. He's on the books for $18 million guaranteed next year and you're going to trade away how many picks that it would take to go get Deshawn Watson. And that's an entirely different conversation for a lot of different reasons. But I think it's, again, just an example of it's constantly changing there. I mean, it's not like they didn't get, they gave up plenty for Sam Darnold.

Like they gave up real assets for Sam Darnold and it committed to paying him. Yeah. And it was like, Deshaun Watson was the old shiny object. And it's become the shiny object again. Like it's like, it probably was like before. And it was like now they're like, oh, I used to like that like, you know, sugar coated candy object in the, in the mirror or the window. So it's like.

And also like, again, it's like they're changing their target so much. you just said. But like what bullets do they have to offer up? They're going to mortgage their future. If they do, say they hypothetically do get to shot because they don't have like players that. I mean, they do,

but it's like, don't you want to build around them? They have no old line. So they're, they're just building the Texans except in the east in a harder division. You know, that AFC South, you know,

the Texans were able to get away with what they were for years because it just how poor the AFC South was. But now it's like you want to go into the NFC South and you're just being, you're the Tarheel Texans. I mean, that's what it is. You have no old line. What are you going to,

rebuild with O-Line. CalfSpace, you're paying Deshawn. Like, it's just like, again, it's just one step forward, one step back. It's just like none of it just has any, like, where it's like, hey, they have an A, B, and C. Like, or they just have a step one, two, and three on this plane. It's just step one, but see how it works. Okay, new step one. Let's do the next thing that sounds good.

Yep. And with, with no, with nothing in mind about how it relates to the other moves that we've made. At all. It just doesn't make sense. It just, and all the warning signs have been. in there, but it just keeps getting amplified every week that passes. And it just now it's happening on the football field where now it's a little more glaring with the weaknesses of what's going on there.

Well, we'll see what happens next. It's going to be an eventful week in Carolina. I can tell you that. Probably some trade for a DB. This is essentially, this doesn't really fit into this segment. This is where we talk about bad stuff that happened during the week. I want to talk about what's going on with the Jets and the Bears, just very briefly. We don't have to spend a ton of time on.

this, but I just, watching what happened to the Jets today was Zach Wilson getting hurt and just how poorly he's played for most of this season. You look at the numbers, I mean, Wilson and Justin Fields are the bottom two, and pretty much every single statistic that you can look at, EPA per play, everything. And it was just kind of a crushing feeling today if you root for one of those two teams. When you had so much hope, just for something different in the spring, like when the Bears drafted, Justin Fields, and I was so excited about it. It's because, man, maybe this will be different. Like, maybe this is a different path. We needed something to change as a fan base.

And I think the Jets felt that same way. I mean, even into the preseason where Wilson looked good, it's like, man, there's something to be excited about. And even if there's still hope for those guys, which there is, you know, I mean, the field situation, you have your third string right tackle playing today who just couldn't do anything. And it's compounded by he just doesn't see things well, right now. I mean, Romo was saying a consistent. I thought it was a really good observation.

His eyes are starting in the wrong place pre-snap. The way that he's operating before the ball was snapped is a concern right now. And I think maybe that gets better with time or with the changing coaching stuff. Whatever. This isn't about that. This is about that really terrible feeling of going into the year, hoping you're going to see progress, change, excitement, and by week seven being like, I just want to sim to end. Like, it's just like, when do we get to start over again? And for both fan bases, I just, it is an awful, awful feeling as someone who is going through it right now. We forget how much growing pains suck. Yeah, they're painful.

Yes, they're growing pains. They're not growing pleasures. And it's like we, I think more than any other position, I mean, we know this. Quarterbacks, one of the hardest positions in sports is we want to go like we get so much help from some of these rookies, Justin Jefferson last year. We see the linemen stepping in and playing well. Jamar Chase. Jamar Chase stepping in and looking like an All-Star and all-Pro. It's like we forget how hard it is to be a rookie quarterback.

We do. It is a better comparison than other positions in NFL is NBA. It's an NBA rookie. There are no, there's not a lot of positive rookie NBA players. Like you can be the number one pick. And if you're average, like, you know, by any like advanced stats by any of those measures, you're like, oh my God, we have hope. It's like if you're just even average.

And that's the thing. I've been an optimist about like Trevor Lawrence. The fact that if you look at his stats, they're shit. But it's like it's just the process that you see. We just have seen these guys step in in certain situations, Justin Herbert last year and we're just like, oh, plug and play. All these guys figure it out. If they don't figure it out, they suck.

But it's like, no, these guys, the process to get there, it takes a while. They're going to have extreme ups and downs. And if you're not, they're on bad teams for a reason. Zach Wilson was the number two pick for a reason, you know, Justin Fields was number 11 pick for a reason the bears were caught in no man's land. This was supposed to be the mark of a new kind of path. It's like we forget that sometimes because like you said, we just want to send to end and just go like, yeah, we're all grown up now. And now our quarterback is in his third year and he's making all these reads every single point.

Isn't it awesome? But we forget that. It's like sometimes it's really hard as a rookie. Yeah, I just, Jets fans having to watch that today and just like, that's the disappointing part is that if he's going to miss three or four weeks, it's like, man, now like it's got lost season. It's a lost season. It was supposed to be a building block year. And that's just really, really difficult to deal with.

That shift from preseason, not even expectations. I don't think they believe they'd be good in that fan base. But it's like, okay, maybe we see some glimpses where we can be excited about what's next. And now it's even that is difficult. It's hard to be excited about what's next because the present is so disappointing and so depressing. And those moments, it's just tough to get over. So I don't want to spend a ton of time on that. But there aren't a lot of games today, and I felt like we should hit both of those very, very depressing, sad performances.

Check that sad box. Yeah, exactly. Not today, my good man, I'm feeling saucy. All right. Every week, or pretty much every single week, we like to talk about a secret sauce, something that was subtle or understated that helped a team win that may go unnoticed at first glance. What did you want to dig into tonight? I believe this is called foreshad. I foreshadowed this in our Bengals discussion, but I wanted to talk about kind of traditional drop back seven man protection.

Ooh, this is as good as Dune was on Friday night. But it's seven man protection. Naturally, just think about it. It's five man protection, six man protection, seven man protection. When defenses bring pressure, the like two best ways to beat pressure really is getting all five eligibles out with five out like five man protection right there. The problem, and we have come up with this, we've talked about the Bengals offense coming into this limitation. We've talked about the Cardinals offense sometimes facing this. We've seen it with the Chiefs now, actually right now too, is that teams will blitz you,

and you have to throw hot or shorter the sticks. And the good defenses will make you do that repeatedly. They'll tackle you short of sticks, and you keep punting going, why? Man, we have a hot answer there. Why is it fourth and two again? But that's what you do. The other answer is to get a seven-man protection and wad it up and actually sort out who is coming on the pressure. the basic way high schools do it colleges do it you can do this in the NFL is like a full seven-man

slide the problem is defenses are very good defenders are very fast at the NFL level they add on very quickly so if they see that tight unblocking also you bear that strong safety is probably coming screaming off the edge and with a clean runner at your quarterback they're just too good you can get the ball off quickly and do that but best traditional way to do this especially on third down or second along even the Bengals did this today because they knew the Ravens were going to heat them up. They just do. That's how the Ravens win on defense. So what this is, a seven-man drop-pack protection is a Mike ID.

Offensive line is going to protect against the four defense-aline and whoever they point as the mic. And they're setting the middle guy, usually the middle linebacker. And these are Xs on the chalkboard. And the formations, so how you're going to know this is a seven-man protection and you can see it, but look at especially on third downs, you either see a split back with two running backs, both on either side of the quarterback and the shotgun, or, you see like a Y off of 11 personnel where the runnerbacks are a normal three by one and then the tight end is off like almost in the backfield almost kind of like in between either being on the line

of scrimmage or right in the backfield and what it is it's so the tight end can identify because he's going to have the sam and it could be the nickel it could be a db what it is is just a sam on the chalkboard the strong identifier to the sky to any cdbs out there and the runnerback has the will which is just the will and the chalkboard going from there the bangles did this multiple times a day. They wadded up the Ravens blitzes and that Joe Burrow was able to navigate the pocket and just knife, knife down the field. So they didn't have to throw hot. They didn't get these clean runners that were happening in their five-man protections. So they're able to, it's gash or be gash. That's how you get guys or get defenses to get out of pressure is that you block it up and just

torch them. That's the best way to do it. And it was really cool to see the bangles because one of my biggest things against them just like last year and this year was like they live and empty and they keep having to throw hot, they don't throw deep, they don't get vertical because they have to throw quick all the time, is this is a way that they're able to attack down the field. And you can see the fruits of their labor. I mean, this is why you're going to be able to see all more go balls, some more of those intermediate throws. It's just really cool to see a team that even I've been negative on having an adjustment like

that. And I think you'll see more teams do that as a complement to their empty stuff too. It's so they can get down the field and attack down the field against pressures. It's good stuff. And it was really good to see an adjustment from the Bengals offense. I think they kind of had the best of both worlds, right? Because they were in a splitback look, but the tight end was one of the two backs. Yes.

They did that multiple times today. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean with the Y off, the tight end off. Yeah. And exactly. So it's just, it's creating splitbacks, but then going, oh, this looks like just like our normal passing formation.

But then it's like we're getting technically a fullback. And actually, it's kind of cool what I've seen the bills do. They've done that sniffer formation with knocks being off the ball and then the back being right behind it. What I've seen the bills doing now is they're doing drop back. protection out of that look. And it's the same, same sort of thing,

but it's like an eye formation protection out of 11 personnel. Yeah. And it's kind of like, okay, all right, all right. So now it's, we're blending ideas now.

We're blending modern football with old kind of, uh, protection schemes, I guess. So it's kind of cool like seeing these next steps, these offenses are taken to get in the spread world. Did I mention Burroughs numbers against the blitz earlier when we were talking about the Bengals?

I don't think I did. I don't think you did. I just said Staffords. He was, he was, Burrow was 10 of 16 for 256 yards against the blitz. Yep. Wad it up and gash it, baby. 10 of 60 for 256 is a decent clip.

So speaking of, speaking of Burroughs numbers today, let's get to who won the belt. Cream of the crop. And there is no one that does it better than the macho man, Randy Savage. That's a good one. That is an all-time promo right there. Way to go, Ket. That's a cup of coffee. Jamar Chase was the cream of the crop today, man.

Eight catches, 201 yards and a touchdown. I don't know where you want to start, but the one thing coming into this game that we had not seen from him. I mean, obviously he'd been incredible. The production had been impressive. We had not seen him go against the top shelf corner that was going to be up in his face

from the start of this game. That is what Marlon Humphrey is. That is the way the Ravens play. And he shrugged it off like it wasn't even there. Yeah. When you make an entire defense change what they want to do. Yeah, that's affecting the game.

We've talked about pass rushers. Oh, okay, they have to start. Offense has to start providing chip help. Oh, a good corner. Oh, the offense came and go to that guy that he's guarding. A good receiver, this is what they do. They force an entire coverage to change. You can't run your man.

You can't run your pressures. We have to cloud your side. And if you're getting the Ravens defense who lives in that world, they'll go against Patrick Mahomes and those guys that run man and run their stuff. And then Jamar Chase is what got them out of it. That's for a real. receiver to do that. It's pretty special. It's, I want to say he's the cruiserweight title winner, but it's like he's like too powerful to be a cruiserweight. Like he's like way too

strong. Like his balance, his body control. It's like it's it's incredible. It really is. Like his just body control and you can tell guys are scared of how strong they are because they respect them. They had there's another clip. It wasn't Humphrey garden him. And like you said, that was what I wanted to see too was how does he go against press against a guy that knows how to win in press as opposed to maybe a rookie. And it was like, it didn't matter. It didn't matter what they did. They were giving them so much respect. They were backing up and kind of giving like a little fake jab to press them because they were like too scared about him. And it's just, it was just extremely impressive seeing him today doing that against the defense. I thought might give him a

little more speed bumps, but there was no speed bumps. He was just full throttle the whole game. What he did over the first month of this season that was impressed. We talked about it on Friday. The acceleration is crazy. Yes. And just the subtleties, just little tiny like, I'm going to you a shoulder here. Yep. And it's going to give me this space here, but not off the line of scrimmage. So today, you saw kind of the next step of what that acceleration gives you. The couple plays he had against Humphrey that impressed me the most.

He sells the outside push, the vertical outside push to the left, and then he comes back inside on the release. His ability to have that crossover release after threatening outside and create space is incredible. Humphrey's shoulders return to the sideline because he was so worried about it. You mentioning a pass rusher is so interesting. Because when I watched him today, he reminded me of Aaron Donald. Yes.

So when you watch Aaron Donald, Aaron Donald, no matter what he's doing, he's moving toward the quarterback. There is always push toward the quarterback. His momentum is always moving forward, even if he's putting a little sauce on moves. Chase multiple times today, he has that vertical push. and when he comes back inside on the release, he's moving forward. And he's got that hand. That little dip swim that he had on that inside crossover release multiple times,

that strength combined with that forward movement, you're fucked. Yeah. I mean, like, there's just nothing to do. There's nothing you can do about that as a corner. Marlon Humphrey is a very sound technical corner.

But when you have that forward momentum, when you're always moving forward and you have the strength and the quickness and everything, else, he's going to be a serious, serious issue. I mean, at this point, he's checked every box that you want to see. And the thing outside of the release stuff, which, again, I was so impressed by today, he hit that crossover release multiple times, even when he didn't get the ball. There was a third and one, the play before he caught the fourth and one comeback early in the

game, he had that on the right side. It was the exact same release that he hit on the slant touchdown and Broden throw him the ball. There were even plays where he wasn't getting the ball. He was super impressive. today. And the body control and yak opportunities on top of everything else, bonkers. Yeah.

I mean, that touchdown to keep his balance. So looking at it today, this is insane. He's seventh in the NFL in air yards per target, okay? She's crazy. Deep threat, right? Yeah. It has been a deep threat for most of the season. That's how he's beating you.

He's also seventh in the NFL in yak. Yeah, that's a pretty special combo right there. That shouldn't be possible. You shouldn't be able, or yak, it's yak per reception. So you shouldn't be able to have the seventh highest air yards per target and the seventh highest yak per completion. That's insane. Yeah.

Yeah, that's bad for average and for power. Like, yeah. He is. It's insane. The body control stuff like that we were, when we were talking about on Friday, it was just the late hands was like, oh, my God, it's so impressive. Like how. And that just speaks to his hand eye coordination and his body control.

It's just he can track the ball and track his body or keep control of his body no matter what we talk about quarterbacks being off platform, but same with him. He can be effective and like you say moving forward unusual angles. And it's like he's just such a funky watch. And it's so impressive though. It's like you can tell you can tell a lot by how other teams treat a guy. And it's like just how scared every corner is. Totally. It's just going like, all right, do I get hand?

And that's Marlon Humphrey who it's like, that's a guy I drafted. in our non-QV draft. Like that's how much how much I respect him. It's like he was making them look, he was embarrassing him. And it's like, wow, it's,

it's, it's really, really cool to watch. I was wondering how the power that he played with in college would translate because he's not going to be able to push guys around to quite the same extent, but he's not having a bully guys. He's playing powerfully where it's explosiveness,

plus the physicality that he still has because he's still going to use that little shove at the end of that release. But that's to finish. it off. He, the, the foot quickness and just the overall ability to set stuff up and just again, that ability to constantly be pushing forward, to constantly have DBs edgy and worried and concerned because of how powerfully and confidently he plays the position. I didn't expect him to look like this.

I just did not know that he would have this bundle of traits and I am more than comfortable being wrong about that because he's going to be fun as hell to watch. Absolutely. In Japan, it's not the cruiser weight. They call him light heavy weights. And yeah, that's what he is. He's the light heavyweight champ right now. It's, yeah, way to go, Jamar Chase.

Like, I was high on him, but it was like, I had my, I had tons of reservations. I was like, exactly what you said. I was like, he uses a two hand swipe too much. Okay, we'll see if he can keep winning. Yeah, exactly. If he can keep winning. Okay, all those other guys are 225 doing that. We'll see.

And it's like, okay, yeah, he does it. I guess two months into his career. Yep. I mean, it's every box. Take a back. Checked every single box of the position that you want to see in a way. that I can't remember anybody doing at this stage of their career. Yeah.

All right. That's all we got. As always, guys, thank you so much for listening. This week's mailbag is with Lindsay Jones. So please submit your questions. You can give us a call and leave a voicemail. The voicemail number is 872-22-22-7073. You can also send us an email, athletic football show at gmail.com.

Please get those in by 1 p.m. on Monday. you're listening to this on Monday, 1 p.m. Eastern. Also, please listen to our fantasy shows, best on the board and the Athletic Fantasy Football Podcast. Recommend both of those guys to you. We will be back with the mailbag, Lindsay, on Tuesday. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon.

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