The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Tom Brady outduels Josh Allen, Micah Parsons enters the DPOY convo, Urban Meyer chaos in Jacksonville, Chiefs are back & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Buccaneers-Bills lives up to the hype, the Cowboys defense has our attention, Urban Meyer is wearing out his welcome in Jacksonville, and those are only a few highlights from week 14. How should Bengals fans feel after the loss to the 49ers? What about Bears fans and another loss in Green Bay? Is Micah Parsons really the MVP favorite? What is going on with the Panthers, Cam Newton and their QB situation? Nate Tice and Robert Mays have all the postgame reaction on a new Athletic Football Show.Athletic discount @ theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing? Buddy. Doing well.

It's like the real holiday season starting because we have a Saturday games are about to start. And so it's like, yeah. I think I'm going to try to go to Patriots Colts next week. Oh. I think I'm going to try to go. It's in indie. Yeah, I was considering maybe doing like a holiday get-together with some friends. but we decided to kind of push that until the end of the year.

So I think I'm going to make a little three-hour drive over there and check out my first in-person game of the season. That's my plan right now. That would be fun. Yeah, and as everybody wants to point out when they talk about moving to Combine, India is a very walkable city. It's very centralized. It certainly is.

It certainly is. So that's a good city to go to and enjoy the town. No, but I fully support going to the live game. I got the itch last week going to the Raiders Stadium to Allegiance Stadium. Now it's like, okay, yeah, that was kind of fun, I'm feeling the buzz a little bit. Well, it's tough because we have to pay attention to all the craziness that happens on Sunday. And, oh, boy, was there some craziness today?

Let's spend 30 seconds on the Sunday night game. People keep asking me on Twitter, like, are you okay? You know, are you going to be able to do the show tonight? It's like, yeah, guys, this is, this team can't hurt me anymore. I don't, we've talked about this. I need my handful of Justin Fields plays. I need them to not embarrass me in public. And that's okay.

And that's exactly what happened tonight. They still got beat up pretty good while taking on the most embarrassing special teams performance, maybe in the history of the NFL from the Packers. That's what it took to keep the game close. There was some horrendous Matt Nagy decision making, but I have moved so far past getting worked up over him punting on fourth and inches down 11. That is no longer in my concern list right now. I do not have that amount of energy.

If they bring him back and we run this group back, then I will again have renewed energy to get upset about little tiny choices when it comes to game management. But that's not where I'm at right now. I am not that granular with my little bits of anger and little bits of ire that I have. You've reached nihilism. It's great. Must be exhausting. No, but that's the, like the judge. It had a little bit of everything.

It was like a vintage bear's thing. So you had the bad coaching decision fourth and inches. is he had some special teams plays. I think Packers fans still want to fire Ron Zuck, even though he's not there anymore. Like they probably like, hey, did we change that coach, right? Like we changed our special teams coach, right?

God. I know. But it was, you're right. It's a, it's, it's, you just want a couple of those flash plays and once move on.

It's like, like, I think you put it perfect on Friday. Just don't embarrass me. And it was enough. It was enough. It was fine. It was totally fine.

Yeah. So that late-knit game comes on the heels of a wild afternoon slate. The early slate today, was miserable. We'll get to a couple games that were mildly entertaining that had some stuff we're talking about. For the most part, it was not a good three and a half hours of football. The games

that were supposed to be close were blowouts for most of the game. The Cowboys Washington game ended up being close at the end. The Ravens Browns game ended up being close at the end. For the most part, those final scores don't indicate what the game flow was like. There were blowouts or there were just ugly games between ugly teams. But then

that 3 p.m., it's 3 p.m. to me. It's 4 p.m. on the East Coast. It's 1 p.m. to whatever time it was. Great. The late slate of games was excellent. And they started off like a blowout in the Bill's Bucks game, but then got extremely close. That last hour, when you had Bill's Bucks in the fourth quarter and overtime, and you had Niners Bengals in the fourth quarter and overtime, those are the best Sunday afternoons. I love that when it's just everything's happening all at once. You got both games going at the same

time. You could barely keep track of the big plays in each one. And that's what it felt like today. at about 6.30 p.m. Central time as I was trying to hold onto my seat. And it was like rotating in like the other games too. It was like, oh, there's another Justin Herbert throw. Okay, now let's get back to the tight games. It was like, okay, and there's another Justin Herbert highlight. Okay, you get back to the tight games. It was like, yeah, you got a nice little ebb and flow with those games.

But I had to make a decision today about the TVs. I typically will split the big TV into a couple for the afternoon game and then keep the local game on one screen and then Red Zone. I did not have either the Giants Chargers game or the Broncos Lions game, even on its own little screen is splitting them. I was like, Bucks, Niners, Bengals, Red Zone. Like I will catch snippets of the Giants Chargers and that'll be enough for me today. Well, even in the first half of the Bucks Billers game, I was the same way. I didn't have Red Zone on for the afternoon.

I have three TVs available basically. I have a laptop of monitor and a TV in my office. And so I went Broncos Lions got the cut. sorry. I'm not, I'm sorry. We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it. We rewatched it. So it's good. But I had one on each screen. That was great. So it was like, okay, so I kind of got to enjoy all of them. But honestly, like how the Bucks Bills game was going in the first half. And I made the joke that it was like Norm McDonald's story, moth joke on Conan, where it was like, it was like seven minutes long because

it's like, that's how I put the 2021 NFL season's going. It's like, we're going to spend all this time like just making up BS and BSing us for 20-something weeks. and it's going to end up Bucks Chiefs once again. You know, that's what it felt like. But then it was like in the second half, I was like, okay, maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe it isn't the Moth joke. And if you haven't heard that joke, please do.

Rest and peace, norm. So let's get into the first half of that game because at a certain point, it did feel like that simply because it felt like the Bucks offense had reached a point where I don't even know what the right analogy was. I mean, they just leveled up where it became supernova. It was just, they were just going downhill at that bill's team. that Mike Evans touchdown, that was a moment I was like, oh, God.

Yeah. Like, what is happening right now? I mean, this is the best past defense in the league. And I still thought overall the buck's offensive performance today was incredibly impressive. I mean, when you think about what they did in the first half, you look at the numbers, I think Brady still average 0.27 EPA per play on the day against the best past defense in the league.

And in the first half, and I tweeted this, and this is kind of what it felt like to me, when you're watching when you're watching the bucks is, a quarterback who sees everything. He's playing close to perfect football because there's nothing you can do against him. He has an answer for everything you want to do because he's seen everything a defense can possibly throw at him. This is a quarterback with 20 years of experience just piled up in the back of his mind. And he has that.

He has that at his disposal all the time. He's also physically looks incredible right now. Somehow, some way, he looks incredible. Yeah. And just his arm strength and some of the throws he's fitting in. and then you combine that with, I think, the best supporting cast in the league, and Antonio Brown is still hurt. Their offensive line is incredible.

Mike Evans is still Mike Evans. You still have Chris Godwin. We talked about Gromke last week, and that's what it felt like over the course of that first half. That Mike Evans touchdown is a perfect example, right? It's just a simple concept, right? It's just smash in the red zone, right? So it's a curl, and then it's a corner.

And the speed with which Evans gets on the safety, and when Brady lets that ball go, and the accuracy that he lets it go with and the catch, all of it. Everything combined it to one. It's like there are so few offenses that have this gear. Like this is a simple idea and they make it look so dynamic and terrifying. And that's what the first half felt like. And then in the second half, the game shifts a little bit. And it's that first touchdown is you're throwing to a spot.

And that's what you say you throw to a spot that only your guy can get it. And that's like, well, when you have Mike Evans, who's 6.5, 230-something pounds and former basketball player, It's like, yeah, he's the only one that can get that. And that's what like, like you said, it's, I won't say perfection, but it is like, it's great. It's hard, aggressive concepts. And then also they just do those freak plays where it's like, I mean, Brady, Brady missile that in. Like he was like, hey, that singing corner is not getting underneath this thing. I'm going to rifle that thing at a high and put it up there, put it on the shelf.

Even the play, I think it was on the, it was either that drive or the drive after. When he threw, they had a free runner and he just lobbed. Oh, that's another. Perfect example, yes. Oh, my God. Like, I cannot wait to watch that one again. Like, what are you supposed to do? Like, what are you supposed to do about it?

And that's the problem is they have those plays. And that's what it felt like in the first half. And the other play I'll throw out as an example, the four-nut touchdown. It can't be blocked better than that. Yeah. You can't do it better than that. And that involves grunk sealing the edge, like very few tight ends can. They perfectly block it up with Kappa and Marpet pulling.

And then you have Donovan Smith 12. I remember. Pancake and a guy. That was always the goal. right? If you were coming from the backside, when you're scooping out down the field, you want to try to get to that playside safety. That's what it looks like perfectly when you're the backside left tackle. It never happens. So rarely is that actually take place. Usually the guys just jogging going, oh, no, come back, come back. And he gets there. And when you have monster runs like that, you have to block it perfectly. And I think this team overall is a really good example of a team with buy-in from every single guy. And that's how those plays. happen, the play where Godwin ditches two guys on the left side, where he tosses the corner, the court tripped, which helps. But the fact that he still takes out two DBs on that screen.

He didn't just go, oh, I got my guy and I'm done. He's like, nope, I'm going to keep finding work. I'm going to keep finding. Yeah. And that's what they feel like, right? That's what they feel like. They have buy-in talent and they're well-deployed. I mean, it is so beautiful when it's working.

But then you get to the second half, and you remember that the bills are still pretty damn good. They're seven and six now, but they're pretty damn good. And they had some plays on offense. They had some plays on defense. Let's just talk about kind of the second half of the way the bills looked on offense. I thought Josh Allen was incredible in the second half. I mean, just what he did with his legs, he had 100 yards rushing today.

But just every little thing that he had going in the plays he could make with his legs, the plays he could make kind of out of structure, some of the throws that he hit, the way that they were kind of spamming that slant RPO and they were getting some stuff going on the ground, It really felt like they started to gain some momentum in the second half. If you're watching that game, just their offensive performance in that half, do you feel better about them than you did before that game started? The second half, because it was, especially in the second half, it was like the first half, Josh Allen's doing his stuff.

And honestly, this is how well Josh Allen played in the second half. I looked up as MVP odds because I was like, he's looking pretty good right now. He came back with the ankle and you wouldn't even tell that he got banged up on that touchdown. But I think what happened at halftime. They're like, hey, yes, on those RPO's, yes, that is a throw read. Because the first one, the Devin Singletary, the first play of the second half, they were on a pinpole RPO and they got slants behind it. The Bucks are, Bucks were treating it like every down like third down. Bucks have, Todd Bowles is very like regimented or siloed.

First and second down is this defense. Third down is this defense. Like he is, that's how he does it. He treated like all those downs like second and long. It was first and 10. He was treating Mike second along and third down. Like he was treating Mike Tasso Dats. like that approach because I feel like that's playing with fire a little bit when you

when you look at the ways the teams have played the bills all year and how much success they've had being a little bit more passive. Just playing back, not blitzing as much. It almost felt like a game plan from 2020 during the second half. And I think that's what fueled a little bit of their success offensively. Thousand percent agree. I like the fact that they even were able to hold on that long like without all the big

place happening. So the pinpole RPO, no matter what, they had an answer to a blitz. A pinpole is a run-it-run. You can run any defense against it. So describe what pin-pull is. Pin-pull is the wide-tight end, it's going to block down. And then it was the touchdown of Fortnite as well as pinpole. It's two guys are going to be pulling usually on it.

So you got a pin on the outside and you got other guys pulling. Usually they have a center and a tackle. It all depends on the front on which guys end up pulling. But usually it's going to be a center attack or a guard attack. The Eagles were a lot. Tons. Yes. Oh, yes.

because Jason Kelsey is fantastic on it. You need an athletic center to get away with it. Mitch Morris is one. So like they do a pinpole. So even if you bring a blitz to that side, you can run it. They also had the RPO that. It's better if you bring a blitz to that side because that corner is getting so much depth into the backfield.

You want them to blitz you. You want them to blitz you when you run a pinpole. You want that. And that's the thing is they must have told Josh Allen a half time. They go, hey, those are RPO throws. We got it. Hand it off because we got it blocked up. That happens.

That's an adjustment. It's like, yes, this is what we thought we were going to do. But nope, we're going to do this. And I think that's what happened in the halftime because there was three looks I saw. I was like, oh, he would have pulled that before. Like, he would have thrown that. Like, and I think they told him like, just hand it off. It's good.

It's fine. It's fine. It's blocked up. And it helps them out because now the defense has to defend all the grass. Everyone has to play the rules. Now you're going from basically iso ball, you know, to now it's like, oh, shit, it's a motion offense now. It's like, you know, now we have to defend everything. And so that was, I.

I like that adjustment. I was actually pretty down on the bill's offense. I'm like, man, just more of the same. They're just running their head into the wall. It's like, I get it. Those are quote unquote aventatious looks, but you're putting a lot on your guys. And it was nice. It was nice more of like a team win, even with Josh Allen kind of leading the charge.

But man, it was, they had a couple near misses. Like he almost had another fantastic throw to Stefan Diggs about 30 yards down the field. That was back shoulder. It ended up being out of balance. But that's once, like we're going to talk about another quarterback later about making 0.001 percent throws. That's a 0.001 throw. And even that, getting that off against the blitz and just being able to

even make that a possibility was impressive. I thought that he was such a huge part of them being in that game. And then defensively, a couple, one more thing offensively, they had a couple RPO's to Beasley for chunk plays off those slants. They had a really good mix of, all right, when am I pulling it, when am I trying to get a splash

play in the passing game? Exactly. And I thought that they really found a groove on that side. Agreed. On defense, I thought that the way they approached Brady in the second half was really smart and that a lot of mugged up looks and they were bringing four and then dropping guys into really advantageous spots, dropping edge rushers into shallows on third down. The big sack that Milano had is a four-man rush, but it's a stunt with a blitzing linebacker. So you don't want to throw extra bodies at Brady, but making it a little bit hard to decipher understanding. That extra hold. Yep, that's it. And they, they were doing a lot of

that in the second half. And I thought those simulated pressures, it's, you know, you need a couple third downs here and there. That's it. That's wins against this offense. And that's exactly what was happening. So, and that one, there was a one stretch that I thought was just so indicative of the way that that defense can play every once in a while. It was, let me look at this right now. It was that play where it was, okay, so 821 in the fourth quarter. Okay. Poirer comes down and makes it on four net at the line of scrimmage for a one-yard gain. Like, that is a great play from a safety and run support. Next play, they line up gronk out wide and try to go one-on-one with Dane Jackson

down the right sideline. It was an adventure at times. It was like Dane Jackson was climbing the beanstalk multiple times in this game. But that play, he gets a PBU. It's third down. And they run a mugged up look where both of the linebackers take the tight end and the running back. They do a twist on the right side.

They force an incompletion. It's like, this defense is still really good. Just because of what was happening to them in the first half against the best offense in the league, they're still capable of stringing these plays together. And then you have Josh Allen who can just make plays. This is all a very long-winded way of saying, I think the bucks are the best team in the league. I don't feel any worse about the bills after today. I mean, there are odds and just the way that the standings look. I mean, it's rough right now, right?

All those teams are seven and six in the AFC. I think NBC said they had a 66% chance of making the playoffs after losing this game. So they're likely still going to get in. And even if their record doesn't look all that impressive and their first half was a nightmare, I still feel like this team has a real puncher's chance because I do still think their defense is really, really good. Yeah. How do you know the Bucks respected them was their second drive, respect the Bills defense,

is the second drive, they went tempo. Because why they went tempo is we've talked about it before is like we were first time this season, we broke down the Bills defense. And we were like, all right, who's doing stuff? And we're like, everybody, because they rotate like eight defense alignments. And they do, you know, all these guys. So what the bucks were trying to do was not let them stop. They were trying to keep, hey, Kate, we're getting an advantage because we'll wear them down,

wear them down. And that's like, hey, they had to have a game plan. They were like, we got a manufacturer of some tempo right now and actually, you know, get some rhythm going. So it's like the bills were dictating stuff early on. And then it kind of, you know, went away from it. And in the second half, you can see that they, the bucks kept trying to hit them with high lows. Like I used to call this, or Paul,

Chris calls this concept swoosh. Sorry, Coach. But he calls it swoosh. And it's the number, it's a three by one concept. The number three runs a bender. And then you see in the red zone a lot. And then you see the number one, number two spots run under routes, which are five yard square. Square ends.

And it's a high low, what that route is or what that concept is, you're high lowing the mic. It's great against man with a whole player, which the bills will run. And also great against quarters. Because same thing. You're putting it on the mic on Edmonds. The first half, that's why you kept seeing Godwin, just gets peppered underneath. Because multiple times. He's got a drafting.

off the point man and the bunch on that and coming right underneath it. It looks really pretty when it works. It's also just a precision play that Brady makes really well. Because you have the time. If you hold that too long and don't hit and don't read it quick, they rally on it. It's also ball placement. I mean, it's just his ability to kind of put that thing low and just kind of dink and dunk your way into frustration. He's very good at that stuff. And what happened to the bills was they adjusted to it. They were like, hey, we're going to drive on it and we're going to make him throw the hard throws over to top. He hit one to Evans, but that was it. It was kind of like there. There was. like, we'll make you, we'll make you hit the 18 yarder because that's a, that's a hard

ass throw. You can't hit five times in a row. You can take those underneath throws that Godwin, who's a legit pro bowl guy. You know, it's like, we, we think of him like this blocker and stuff. That guy's a stud. Like, he gets north so quickly. It's, it's, it's like a super mushroom edelman, you know, like, or West Welker. Like, that's what he is. It's like, boop bloop, like, you know, that's what he took it to get, because he gets north so quickly. That was like West Welker's superpower. And so when you have, that's why the bucks are super charged as an offense is most teams run that. You're trying to get to one guy.

The Bucks run it. They have Godwin underneath and Gronk or Evans behind him. There was that one play where he hit the high one and it was his four three. He read the concept out on that side and then it was the high low over the middle. He looked low, went high and completed it. And that's why they're so hard to deal with. It's also when you watch them against the team like the bills, especially in the first half, where you have, again, zones kind of designed to prevent you from hitting chunk plays.

We talk so much about if you're going to play too high against the team or against an offense, can that offense run you out of it, can they make you pay for it? It's also, can you, with precision, attack the underneath areas of the field and continue to move the ball? And if you look at some of the numbers, Brady on the season coming into today was 40 of 50 on the season, at about 0.31 EPA per dropback on throws between 5.5.5.5.5.5.5.5.5. and 10 air yards against two high defenses. It's the hardest throw. And his ability to do that, you saw that all the time in the first half.

That little adjustment by the bills is really smart. So that's kind of where I come to here is that I think that the Bucks are the best team in the league. I mean, you watch them today. I truly think that they're the best team in the league. They're healthy on defense now, but I think that the bills are very, very good. And now they are a member of a very crowded AFC wild card picture with a Bengals team that lost to the Niners in that exact same window as all that wild stuff was happening, right? So this is, what a strange game that was.

The fact that the Bengals outplayed them. They absolutely did. They should have won that game. They almost won that game with multiple muffed punts. They lost two muffed punts in that game. And then Jesse Bates drops an interception that potentially could have sealed it. Like, if George Kittle doesn't exist, the Niners lose that game.

And the Bengals are sitting there feeling really good about it. themselves in the AFC North leading the division. Instead, both of those teams are now seven and six. The Niners are cruising toward a playoff spot and the AFC is an absolute mess. God. And that game was like, it was like, it was moments of brilliance by some players and just a lot of muck. It was a lot of like, just like this is brutal.

I thought Burrow was incredible. I did too. Man, he is, Seth Galena, you know, because he's an LSU fan as well. But he, he says it best. It's like, you wish he had a little more arm strength because he is so aggressive. Yes. He's able to do that. The fact that he's able to do that with not the Herbert arm, the Allen arm, the Brady arm is really, really impressive.

Because he sees the game so well. He's so smart. And he's like his timing, his sense of timing and throwing this. He throws guys open. That's why you see T. Higgins, even with his arm, that's why you see T. Higgins with room on those comebacks. That's why you see Jemar Chase catching those corner pocket throws. Like that's all timing.

Or not catching it as he dropped one today. Again, another play that just didn't go there. away. They got unlucky today and still almost won that game. Yeah. And he's making guys missing the pocket. It's just like, yeah, they had five sacks, but it's like he also made about seven sacks not happened and created not just like, oh, he just got through the ball out of balance. It was like, no, he actually got like a first down or a touchdown on that fourth down to Jamar Chase, which was just ridiculous play, even though the right tackle I think gave a rock bottom to the guy. But they're a solid team. And they're, they found some formula

like the run game. We've talked about a few times. They understand a run game is pretty nice with mixing and their zone stuff. And like, you know, they've stopped spamming empty plays and having to throw hot all the time. Now they're able to attack those intermediate areas. That's why you're seeing more T. Higgins in your life. That's where you're seeing more of that because they're hitting intermediate throws. And that's where those types of guys thrive. They're a solid team. They really are. They're hard to defend for four quarters. They have a lot of talent. They really do. Those skill guys are really hard to defend, especially when you're playing fist-string corners, like like the 49ers. Ambery Thomas had a rough day, man.

I mean, it was an adventure of a day. No fault of his own. I mean, that Chase drops a potential touchdown. I mean, it's not like a drop. It's a tough catch, but it hits him in the hands. That's a Thomas play. And then there were a couple deep inbreakers to T. Higgins that were just running after him.

He's just flailing trying to catch up to him. And then the slent go to chase his squad touchdown. I mean, it's a rough day for him. He's a rookie. That stuff is going to happen. That happens. But that drive to tie the game, I mean, there are three or four throws on that drive. There's the inbreaker to Higgins that bro hits.

There's the scissors to Tyler Boyd on the left sideline. That's a beautiful corner throw. Gorgeous throw. And then he hits Chase for the touchdown. It's like, holy shit, man. All of those throws in one drive, he played extremely well. Their defense, I thought, played well. I mean, they have a couple, you know, bounces the ball here and there.

but other than that, they absolutely could have won that game, if not for Kittle. You look at what Kittle did in that game. 13 catches for 151 yards. I mean, there's the one Jennings catch down the right sideline, and then there's the one Debo run for a touchdown. But even on the Debo run, that happens in part because of Kittle. Yes. It is unbelievable how valuable he is to that team right now.

I wanted to ask you, I just put you on the spot. If we're drafting non-quarterbacks for the rest of the season, and you're confident that guys are going to be healthy. With the kiddle, that's always a caveat, right? He's stinked up all the time. But since he's come back from injury, he's been insanely good. Like, insanely good. That catch today, that full extension catch is just otherworldly stuff. He's doing five of those a game at this point as a blocker and a receiver.

Among non-quarterbacks, how high would you draft him for the rest of the year? He's top five. I think so too. Yeah, because we underestimate. We think tight ends are just the receiving stuff, but the fact that he can play 90% of the snaps and affect, you know, so if say he plays 60 plays, he's affecting the positively,

I've gone on this rant before, but he's positively affecting the game 50-something plays. You know, because it's not even just his targets, which is like that's what usually receiving tight ends are. It's the like the Debo Samuel touchdown. The block there, that's a key block. That's not him on the backside, cutting the guy off.

It's like, why do you think their perimeter run game is so dominant? It was a huge part of it. Yes. And that's the thing. So now he's a, it's not just. Oh, I know. Yes. I say top five pretty easily.

I mean, I mean, the guys you could list off like Aaron Donald. Yeah. J. 11 Ramsey, Miles Garrett, Devante Adams. I mean, he's right in that conversation, like right in that conversation.

And I think that we forget that sometimes. Yeah. The fact that he was dinged up for a good portion of the year. what he has done over the last three or four games is astonishing. I mean, he has carried them offensively and they won this game, but they easily could have lost. I mean, it is amazing how valuable he has been to who they are offensively. This is how, like, even we, I've talked about this with Tyreek Hill, how he can take like a little, a short route that should only get four or five yards and create a first down out of it.

Like, Kittlehead, like, I mean, he gets every one of the, every time he gets a target or a catch, he had the dart. Darts like, you see what the Shane in offense. he's the only one that does this really. It's the, they'll run outside zone. And then on the backside, he runs a little like one step slant.

They call it dart, a now slant, but they attach the tight end. Jacob Tammy was really good at it with the falcons. Like a random, random like niche thing he was really good at with it because he had a feel for it. But anyways, he catches it should be a nice seven yard gain.

Okay, second and three. He turns into a 20 yard gain because it breaks two tackles, bra, you know, just carrying guys, gets the first down. And then he's on the next snap, he's putting a down block.

in. It's just right then and there. He went from, okay, that should be a double or a single. Okay, get on base. Good job. Hey, we got a nice efficient play. He's turning into a triple. And then on the next play, it's like, oh, and then he's stealing home. That's what blocking right there is. Like, if we're going baseball, that's what he does. He's like a three and D basketball player. Like, I don't know how to describe it. It's just like a two-way player. And when you have guys that can just do that on every single play, the jumping catch on the sale route, I mean, just like he's turning those into explosive plays. And that's where I was trying to gain an offense.

And not many tight ends are explosive guys. And it's just, it's ridiculous what he can do. He can take any, literally any ball to the house. How many tight ends can do that? And he has the value as a blocker. That team is so bizarre.

I mean, they have three or four special players. I mean, what Bosa was really good again today and what he can give you on any single down. And obviously, Debo is a rare talent. They have all these guys. And then you sit there and look at the right side of their offensive line.

again today. It's like, oh, man. And it's, it's, it's so easy to get excited about some aspects of who they are. And it's so hard to get excited overall because you're worried about those things that could doom them in the end. I have a note that I just said, uh, I go their entire offenses, please no one fuck up until we get the ball to Debo, Iyuk or Kittle. Like just, exactly what it is. And then I you make the crazy play at the end. Just, hey, old I don't screw up. Jimmy don't screw up. Please just get just get the ball out. I mean, they had one. Uh, The Bengals got a sack. They just ran a simple, they, I feel bad for the 49ers of line coach.

They try to help. They gave chip help with Kittle. They run just a little simple game. And the right guard and the right tackle end up Brunskill and them, I know, sandwiching each other. Like they have like stomach to stomach. And then like, like, and it was two free runners. It ended up being a sack.

And I was just like, oh, God. And that's with chip help trying to help out. I was like, oh, no. But it's like, yeah. But once you get the ball out and get to one of their hands and it's like, hell, hell yeah, get to the firework factory. They just got to get there. that's every single play for them though

so the Bengals lost today means that the Bengals, Ravens and Bill's all lost the Browns beat the Ravens let's talk about that game really briefly here I thought the Baker looked so much better than he has looked for a good chunk of the year not great

he throws that pick and then he almost he wanted to throw another one he did I mean there was that ball that got tipped twice that he tried to throw another interception later in the game. He hit the same Ravens player like three times like he tried to give He tried to give him another one, but he was 15 of his first 17. I thought physically he looked better.

I thought their passing game looked better overall. I thought Donovan People's Jones had a couple of nice moments today. Their passing game had some life to it that has desperately been missing. So I thought it was a decent win for the Browns. The Miles Garrett play is insane. I mean, just he is crazy. That is like one of one type of play. Like so few guys can do that.

Randy Gregory did something similar that we'll get to. But I thought. that the Browns played well, the Lamar injury is just another weird, weird turn in what has been a lost season for the Brabts. I mean, I know they're still winning in the division, but if he misses any time, even if he doesn't miss time, it just feels like they're out of gas. Like, that's what it feels like to me. It just feels like they're out of gas. Again, to no fault of their own. Yep. I know you, that's all I roped about is like you just feel bad for them because it's just like, they're trying. At a certain point, you just have the season from hell. Like your snake bit and there's

nothing you can do about it. I knew that their coaches probably were just like, okay, we're not changing because on defense, they're still running man, even with like, there are like the fourth and fifth corners, like every play and blitzing and all that because they're just like, hey, we are what we are, whatever, let's just get through this. I'm not, like, you know, Wink's just not like, coach Martindale's not like, oh, I'm changing this up. He's like, I, I'm, it's week 14. Like, we've already had our buy, but it's, we've come too far now. We've come too far exactly. Like, and like the Lamar injury, like anyone that was anyone that had a comment about like, oh, this is scrambling quarterbacks.

It was a screenplay that he was just trying to create an angle of part of the throw. So it was just a freak incident. And that's what this whole season has felt like for the Ravens. Just a bunch of freak incidents, one after another. Like just even when as soon as the runoffback incidents happened in August, when it was like, bo, blah, blah, all in a week getting hurt. It was like, might not be our year. I might have to, maybe we should move the stadium about 50 feet to the right.

Like maybe we're on top of something. And it's their effort here. and their overall resilience has been admirable. But at a certain point, you run out of gas. And I think that they have reached that point, right? So they're eight and five. They have a one game lead on the Browns and the Bengals in the division. So I think the Browns and the Bengals absolutely could both win the division if they string

some wins together. We still have to talk about the Steelers offense. They're still in it. I know. I know they're still in it. It's frustrating. The Browns have the Raiders, the Packers, the Steelers, and the Bengals. Right?

Yeah. The Packers is obviously a really tough game. They absolutely could win two of those and then be looking at a winner-le-Loo-er-leaves-town match with the Bengals in Week 18. That should be fun. 100% could happen. The Bengals have the Broncos who are somehow still feisty and in this thing. They're also 7 and 6. The Ravens, the Chiefs, and the Browns.

I mean, this could go a bunch of different ways. And then if you look at the standings overall, the Colts, Bills, Browns, Bengals, and Broncos are all 7 and 6. anything is on the table here. It is. It's going to be a really weird last month of the season. I still feel like, I mean, the cult, the cults have a really rough stretch. Colts have the Patriots. They have the Cardinals.

Oh. So they have Patriots home? Are they at Arizona? I think they are at Arizona. It's on Christmas. It's on Christmas Day. I can't. Let's look here.

Yeah, let's look. Let's look. Let's look here. Terrible radio here. So it's at Arizona on Christmas Day. So, I mean, that's a tough stretch. So, I mean, it's, I mean, it's anybody's ballgame. It's so crazy to think about.

I still think that the Ravens, I would not be surprised if they fell off here. But it is a tight, tight race in the AFC. And the Titans won today. The news came out. I think Ian Rapport reported that it sounds like Derek Henry will be back before the playoffs or a little bit before. And if they get Henry back and AJ Brown back and they might have, have a big enough lead where if they get healthy, who knows what can happen. So it's going to be a

wild final month. I'm sure we didn't talk about for a month. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention. All right. The Kansas City Chiefs are back. Yeah. They have my attention. I am, I am comfortable saying that they are back. They destroy the Raiders today, 48 to 9. And, you know, some of that is turnovers, but that's the story with this team a little bit, right? through seven weeks, they're negative 10 in turnover differential. Think about how many little tiny bounces of the ball and tipped passes and is how unlucky they seemed. In the last seven weeks, they are plus 10 in the turnover differential. They are zero on the season.

They are even in the turnover columns on the year. And that is what the last seven weeks have looked like and they've won six games in a row. So you have some turnover luck, a defense that is surging like we talked about. and an offense that is still capable of making those chunk plays that they did today. And now this team is at the top of the AFC potentially and they look utterly terrifying. Yeah. Like we said, they're Michael Byers. They just are keep coming.

You got to kill them. You got to torch them, chop their head off, freeze them, whatever you want to do. It's like they, it we just talk about get right games. And it's, chiefs get their confidence against a Gus Bradley defense, it seems like. It's like I can only compare it to a guy dunking. And then, like, he has his, you know, knee in the guy's chest and he gets, you know, lifted higher. Like, that's, that's the chiefs. They're like, hey, they're already rising about the dunk on teams.

But it was like, oh, it's Gus Bradley. And they go even higher and dunk on it because it's watching this team, it was, it wasn't even perfect. But it was, it felt like it was like, okay, they're figuring things out. They hit the one, they hit the long play to Hardman early on. It was like a first or second down. They went full like seven man protection. They were like a third down protection. They were like chip helping.

it was like, oh, now they did that a lot in this game. They're dialed up shot plays now. And it's like, okay, they're doing that first and second down now. They're not waiting until third and nine to do it when, you know, defenses can tee off on them or rally to tackle and stuff. So it's like, okay, they're doing that. Saw a couple oldie but goodies. Like they ran curl flat today.

I can't remember they haven't run curl flat forever. Crow flat is a staple and just football concept. It's literally what it sounds like two curl routes, two flat routes, a guy over the middle. So they hit Kelsey on it because that's the first read on it. But again, when you have good players just around these simple routes and having space to work with, those little five-yard gains for a normal player turn into 14-yard gains for Travis Kelsey.

But it's like, so they're chipping. They're actually running straight run plays as opposed to doing RPO's. It's like they came out of the buy with some tweaks. And it's their stuff. It's not anything like new or crazy, but it's just like, hey, we cut out this part of our game plan or our playbook. And we emphasize these different parts of our playbook. So that's just the offense and this defense. So we've talked about before, it's like they were built to be like a full press defense and basketball where it's like they go on runs.

Hey, hey, we might give up a couple threes, but we're going to just press you, press to press you and just generate. And you saw it in force today. But they're in between that, those turnovers. They're still playing a lot better defense. We talked about on Friday. They really are. They're playing more sound defense. Their guys are stepping up.

Chris Jones moving back inside, it's helping out everybody. It's just, yeah, it's like you feel the momentum with this team. I totally agree. I mean, Frank Clark had a couple of really nice rushes today, like pretty spin moves. Their four-man rush looks really, really good when those four guys are on the field. And then they're creating turnovers. And that stuff is going to come back to normal for the most part. And if you let them around, it was always going to find its level.

And that's exactly what happened. And I loved what they were doing on third down today because they were a lot of chip help on third and long. And the mindset there is, as long as he has time, he's going to make something happen. And then you had that third and eight play where he had a really nice chunk play to a hill deep over the middle of the field. That third and extra long where he chucked it all the way back across the field to hills. They had so many of those plays today because we're like, all right, we're just going to allow him to have time. We're going to chip every single time on those rushers. And we trust that as long as he has a little bit of time, we can find something down the field.

And that's exactly what happened. And I still don't think they've totally found their groove offensively. I still feel like there's a comfort level that they can reach, but they're going to have those splash plays every once in a while. When you combine that with the way that they're playing defense, it's scary. I mean, they are very, very frightening when you look at the complexion of the way the AFC looks at this moment. Exactly. And it's also stuff like the drops. Like you mentioned like, yeah, the tip balls for interceptions.

Like, okay, they're best players where Hill and Kelsey are like, we know, we can drops. It's like, that's not going to sustain for an entire year. It's like that talent just doesn't go away. It's just that's what it is. It's the regression. And then you remember, it's like, oh, yeah, this offense can go supernova at any single time. Like any play can just be right down your throat.

And that's terrifying for any team that plays against them because now the bar has been lifted for them. It's like, Mahomes, they don't have to be perfect on offense because the defense is playing so well. And that just helps. It keeps the pressure off them. But they're going to figure out their groove. And I mean, if they're just tweaking it like they just tweaked it today or the last actually

since the buy week, even the week before the. It's like, okay, they're finding their, you know, you have to change the flu shot every year because the flu changes. Like they found their 2021, you know, flu vaccine. That's what they're going for this year. And I think they found it. There was a play. It was like a two-play stretch in the second quarter where Mahomes extended a play. He was mindful of where the line of scrimmage was.

And he found Pringle for that chump play that got him inside the five. And that exact play where he's running toward the line of scrimmage putting a ton of mustard on the ball over the middle like that. That was the interception they had against the charters, remember? Yeah. Where it's that exact type of action. It's a little bit too hot. The receiver, it's a tip ball over the middle of the field that gets picked off. Instead, Pringle makes the catch down inside the five.

They score a touchdown. Immediately on the next drive is the Foster Moreau catch over the middle that he just throws into Tyron Matthew's hands. And that, to me, is a perfect encapsulation of how their season is shifted. It's the same looking plays. They're just bouncing their way now. Yeah. And the defense is playing. so much better and more sound even beyond the turnovers.

That's what it feels like in this moment. And when you have an AFC that's as wide open as this is, and they're starting to kind to get this traction. I'd much rather have the luck going, regressing this way when you're hitting December, as opposed to getting real lucky. It's like, good time. Hey, let's get back to even. This is a good time to get back to even.

You know, seasons almost seasons wrapping up. So yeah, I, it's, hey, a football is not a circle. It's an oblong shaped thing. It bounces in a million different directions. It's impossible to predict. And the fact that it's like, okay, now we're getting a couple of those breaks. Yeah. And they're playing better.

It's that's a good formula. All right. Next one here. Dallas Cowboys defense. You have my attention. Holy shit. Jesus. How do you block that?

Those three guys today, they all had moments, right? Randy Gregory comes out and we talked about it. The two most impressive defensive plays of the day to me where the Miles Garrett strip sack touchdown that he returned by himself and Randy Gregory tipping that screen to himself. I mean, the body control necessary. On that play, they're cutting him in order to kind of get him out of the way to throw a screen pass.

He, guys that can play cup blocks, JJ White was always incredible with that, where guys go at low at him and his hands in order to fight that off and then still make a play. That is so hard. So Gregory does that and then tips the ball to himself. DeMarcus Lawrence has a sack at one point in that game. The last play of the game that was the fumble by Kyle Allen that ended up not becoming

that was a fumble. I can't even remember now. That's a Gregory sack, but Lawrence causes that sack. So now you just drop him back into the equation. And that's before we even get to what Michael Parsons is doing right now. It's insane. Well, now he doesn't have to line up on the edge. And so they, because those two guys are on the edge.

And now you're getting against guards. And they had one where he's off ball. And just by the protection point, he ended up the running backs guy. And it's like, yeah, that's not a good formula for an offense. That is like, that's what, that's how LT became LT was a whole bunch of defense is not understanding protections in the 80s and going like, well, we have a tight end blocking 56. You know, he's a linebacker by trade. And it's like, well, this is a different type of linebacker coming at you. And it's insane.

It's absolutely insane. And now they could change up the looks now. He was a Tampa dropper in one. Like he almost had a pig. On the play where McClorin got hurt. He was a Tampa dropper running down the middle of the field. Like 25 yards down the field. He almost had a pick as another play where he was running down the middle of the field.

And that's why people are like, oh, he's not as valuable as a linebacker. They should just have him as an eddresher full time. Why? You have these three guys to do this. The uncertainty you can create, with his ability to do all of this different stuff. There were multiple plays.

The sack that he had that led to the fumble that led to the touchdown, that is him coming off the left guard, coming off the right guard, who was Brandon Shirf, by the way, doesn't help that Heinecke drops 13 yards into the backfield on that play. Part of the reason that he does it is because it's terrified. All that heat coming out, he's trying anything he can to get back there,

and Parsons makes the sack, fumble touchdown. on the play where they scored a touchdown to Sims, the chuck, the desperation heaved on the left sideline, they sent Parsons on that play. He dominated Eric Flowers. And that is when you have guys,

there are some guys when they're blitzers and they're as off ball linebackers, they get sex because they're free rushers. His ability to overpower guards coming from depth and still bend back toward the quarterback, I can't remember somebody that can do that. Devin White has it a little bit. But even that is more making guys miss in space.

And he's more like a straight line fast. You know, like he's like a missile straight. Like, freaking Parsons can like slither around and not lose any speed. Or go through a guy. Or through it. Yeah. Just the fact that he's that powerful in those moments where he can, the dip in the shoulder doesn't give you a lot of surface area, but he can still play through half of you. I can't remember somebody consistent.

doing it the way that he's doing it right now. Yeah, and he's a rookies, 22, 23. It's insane. Pretty insane. Yeah, the one, the one where you freaking, it looked like LTE when he decleted Heinrichie and like, oh, my God, it felt bad for him. He was like, oh, God, because that hurts. That's what in the movies and everything, you think as a quarterback, the blind shots

from behind hurt doesn't hurt at all because you're like loose and like you kind of just get on your face. They hurt relatively. But the ones straight at the chest, that hurts. really, really bad. And you got a 240 pounder that runs a 438 doing it full speed at you. Those really hurt. And on it, it's a seven-step drop because it's mesh. And like as soon, like usually, like you said, he was terrified. A seven-step drop, no chip help and stuff. You're taught as a quarterback to automatically hitch. It's designed. You hit the drop. He couldn't do it because it was like, he was like, oh, screw this. I'm backpedaling. Like, because he would, when you, you're not even finishing your drop and there's already heat on you, It's like that is, it's rare. It's like, it's rare. I mean, and that's, and now with the fact that they have these other two guys, like, Randy Gregory, all intense purposes should have been a top high pick when he came out. He just, you know, had other stuff. But it was just that's that you see that talent coming. The investment that the Cowboys put in him, now they're getting back tenfold. And to Marcus Lawrence, he got hurt early in the year. But it was like, even before the Tampa Bay game, he was dominant. He's a superstar. He's one of the best edge rushers in the league. He's a star star. He's not like, oh, he's a good player. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a star. He's a Randy Gregory is playing like a star. Michael Parsons playing like a star.

That's just those three. They have three top 10 edge rushers right now. Yeah. Yep. They do. And they can deploy them at the same time. One of them as a linebacker, they can do a bunch of different things.

It's insane. It is. So if you look at it. Their t-tackles are good too. Yes. They got Gallimore back today. So if you look at it, all right, Parsons has nine and a half sacks in the last six games.

Most, it's tied for the most sacks by a rookie in any six games span. He has 10 sacks on the year. He came into this game, according to PFF, with 47 pressures, which is tied for 14th in the NFL. Okay? He's hired a full-time rusher. Every other person above him on that list had at least 90 more pass rush snaps than him. At least.

So he's 14th in the league in pressures while rushing the passer about 60% as much as everyone else above him on that list. It's ridiculous. Do you think he's the defensive player of the year? No, I'm giving it to Garrett right now, but he's on the podium right now. Like, I think it's him, Watt, and Garrett. I think it's those three, but I'm going to get it. But man, he's going to win one. He's going to win one in his career.

Like, I'm easily will say that right now. Like, it's like what he's doing. He's a freak. He is unbelievable. I think that Miles Garrett deserves it right now. On a play in, play out what he has done affecting the game, he leads the league, in pressure is he's been the most dominant pass rusher, I think the most dominant defensive player in the NFL.

The splash plays from Parsons help. I absolutely think he could get the narrative momentum necessary to end up winning this. But he looking at it, conceding that, okay, we think he will win one eventually. Can you remember someone affecting the game in this manner? He feels like what Anthony Barr was supposed to be when we were talking about Anthony Bar coming out. I think Andy Bar has been a really good player. Yeah, good player.

But just this ability to be a full-time linebacker, a full-time edge player to dominate in both ways when he wants to. And he has issues in coverage, right? Every off-ball linebacker has issues, the coverage is a rookie. But the play he made against the Saints, that recovery speed down the left sideline to make that play and tip that ball to have it intercepted, the athleticism in space, even if the awareness isn't there, plus what he does moving forward at the quarterback, I cannot remember somebody in his physical package that can do all of these things.

in the last however many years that I've watched. I mean, it's, because I don't want to compare him to him, but LT is the only other one. Like that's, and Julius Pepper's as a rookie, but he was in a linebacker. Like, that's it. Like, in my, I'm trying to just grasp a straw. I was trying to think of like guys, but it's historic. Like, that's the best way to put it. It's like, what he's doing right now is it's, he's a star of 14 games into his career.

And not just like, oh, because he plays for the Cowboys, it plays for all that. It's like, no, he's dominating games. He's, Brandon Sherf is like at all. guard and he's pulling him back. It's insane. And that's a linebacker wearing number 11

doing this stuff. He's ridiculous. He absolutely is ridiculous. And yeah, I don't know. I still think Miles Garrett's defensive player of the year, but the fact that we're

even having this conversation says something. Are you worried about the Cowboys offense? I'm worried about that's calf more than I thought. I thought it would be healthy right now. The last interception,

he, it was bugging him because he pulls up on the naked. And I get, I get Dalton Schultz was settling in the soft spot. But you don't pull up on naked because you're worried about a guy coming from behind. It's because he doesn't want to plan off his left foot, like a single left foot throw. You know, just how he heard it. Remember, on the CD throw against the Patriots on the last play of the game. So obviously that's bugging him a little bit. He had a scramble in the first quarter. It was in the red zone. He took a sack because he ran out negative one year. That's still one of my least favorite rules. I think it was a zero yard gain,

but it counts as a sack and stats. It's all, God, defensive. That's defensive rule committee guys. Like, like, how do we, how do we get a couple little cheap sacks? Because Burrell, I think had one too.

But anyways, so I think that's bugging them because also the interception. He's thrown like three of those where it's, it's an over to the left. And on all three of them, he short steps. And if you just short step as a quarterback, you sailballs.

Like, because you're, your short step and then you have to, your arm drops. You know, it just, it messes up your all mechanics. And he had room in front of them.

And his mechanics are fantastic. So that's, that's actually. how you know something's not right because his mechanics are so good that you're like, ooh, that looks a little. Like if Mahomes does something, it's just like, well, it's Mahomes. He moves like Gumby. And but with Dak, he's a robot.

And I mean, as a compliment, he's a quarterback playing robot and robot playing quarterback, I should say. And it was like, oh, man, that just looked weird. Like it came out of his hand weird. And he had one against the saints like that. He had another one recently like that. And so, yeah, I just don't think he's right. I'm not too worried about the offense because they always still have the answers.

but I do think they need to start getting some changeups. These defenses are known what they're doing. We've complained about the Cowboys offense before, being static and all those types of things. That's what's feeling like again. It's feeling very like predictable. And that's what was so fun. We saw a little spark in the second half, like the little CD, lamb handoff. But that was a third down call.

We need some more first and second down kind of twists, some like a little sugar sprinkled on some of this stuff. Because right now to me, it feels like defenses are going, hey, they were on stop routes every single time on the outside. We're driving on that shit. Like, you know, and I just see it kind of cropping up more and more and more. I think they'll be fine. They have too many good players. Deck is too good, not to.

But it's like, they need some, maybe some changeups because people are starting to wait on their fastball. I think that the fact that they can win this way and that their defense can carry them is a testament to way this team has been built. It's a good sign that their offense doesn't have to play well for them to win games like this. I think the concerns about the offense are concerns about their ceiling ultimately. It's like how good can they be?

It's a good sign that they are still winning games when the offense hasn't found itself here over the last month or so. But if you're having to play against the Cardinals, the Bucks, the Packers here as the season goes on, we're in the playoffs. You're going to need that offense clicking in order to beat a team like that. It's a bloodbath, so you better have answers. That's exactly right.

The M.C. is tough. All right. It's time now for the State Farm, surprisingly great performance of the week, presented by State Farm. I want to talk about the Broncos running backs. I don't think we've mentioned Giovante Williams's name on this show the entire season. Because the Broncos offense, yeah, the Broncos offense was pretty good early in the year,

but it was mostly because Teddy was really slinging it, and their offense was incredibly efficient throwing the ball. But today, 184 rushing yards, four total touchdowns for their running backs. And the thing that I thought was so impressive, they had 184 rushing yards, and they averaged 4.7 yards per carry today, the Broncos did, without a run longer than 16 yards. Yeah. That is, you just bleed the game out, right?

They were, they controlled the game so well. And I, you know, their offensive line has some interesting pieces to it. And I think that they're a decent unit. I thought that Quinn Minors did some really cool stuff today in space. You know,

Mike Munchak's a fantastic offensive line coach. And I think that, that their ability to kind of function as a unit is, is pretty darn good. They're 14th in rushing DVOA this year. You know, it's not fantastic, but they're a solid offense.

And I think that the one-two punch they have with Williams and Gordon is so interesting because Williams is this incredible tackle breaker. And Gordon is a really good zone runner. So they have that one-two punch. And I think that it really works when you mix those two guys in together. Yeah, it has a lot of the same vibes as the Browns, like maybe like a Diet Coke version of that. Yeah. You know, like really, really good old line coach, two really, really good or two really, really good backs that are. kind of similar but not.

Like it's a different little flavor for each. And even today, like what I like so much about watching the Broncos run game, just like actually the Brown's wrong game is that they can run a lot of different things well. But like so like they're very game plan dependent. Like one week they'll run power a little bit more. One week they'll run do a little bit more. So like this week they were split zone. There's split zone.

Yes. All day. A ton of split zone today. Yeah. A ton of split zone. And we've talked about split zone before with Derek Henry. Because what that can do, if you have a big back like Javon, it's perfect for. both of their backs.

You have the glider in Melvin Gordon, who's a big body. We don't realize how big Melvin is. But he can just find those spots. You can see his vision working and he kind of weaves in and out and gets those gains. And Javante Williams, just like Derek Henry, I'm not saying the same scale, but like the same type of big back is split zone turns into almost like a designed cutback play. Not cut black, but you're getting north against the flow of the defense because you have split zone. It's a zone block. We have the tight end crossing the formation and kicking out the end.

And it helps too because no fan, you know, isn't the greatest head-on blocker, but this is a way to get him on the field and just like utilize him as well is now you're having all these guys tackling from the side. So if you have Javate Williams, 220-something pounds who loves contact, it's like, that's not a lot of fun for defenses to just, oh, God, I got to hit this guy. I'm not taking them head on and getting a form fit tackle on them. I got like body blow my neck and shoulder right into his like his thigh. It's not a lot of fun.

And it's really, it's cool. Like, and then they can get to like the naked. self off of that where it's like, hey, now we can just manufacture cheapies in the passing game and get like explosive plays just because they're so worried about a run game. And this is what it is. It's good sound run game. It's really good running backs and like Lloyd Cushenberry is playing well for him, the center. Like I mean, he's fine. They're a really solid group over. Solid. And I think that the way that Gordon can kind of see that split stone stuff unfold and just like how smooth he is in that. And then the way that Williams can just make himself right with his ability to make, to make guys,

miss. If you look at the numbers right now, coming into this week, Javante Williams was second in the NFL, according to PFF, and miss tackles forced on a hundred fewer touches than Jonathan Taylor, who leads the league. He's easily been the best tackle breaker in the NFL as a running back. That is a sticky thing. That is a sticky talent. That is for the, being able to make guys miss tends to translate from college to the NFL. When he figures out how to play, and when he gets a feel for the position and he starts to see stuff unfold,

he's going to be really, really good. And he's a great pass protector already, which is like as a rookie, because he's got size and he's obviously smart and Munchak, that's where a great old line coach helps too, is that like they put that on them. They're like, no, we want to get this guy on the field. Like being a three down back as a rookie is very, very promising.

So what do you think, what do you make in the Broncos right now? They're seven and six. They're still in this thing. And that's why I wanted to ask me. They're still hanging around. It feels like they might have fallen off, but they're just a really solid team overall. What do you make of them and how they fit into the playoff picture in the AFC overall?

We kind of, we felt like that we did roster check-ins this summer. And we were like, hey, they got a pretty good roster. They got some good players. I think the offense now is getting healthy and getting, you know, Sutton and Judy back. That helps. Like, they just have a whole bunch of nice, just, nice players. Like they just just do. It's just kind of like it's like the bills defenses their offense.

Like, you know, it's just a bunch of good solid players. Like Teddy's not going to screw it up. And their defense is not going to be fun to play against if they make the playoffs. I mean, it's been an uneven year from their defense to say the least, but I still don't think you want to play against that team. This defense took it to the Cowboys and the Chargers in two out of three weeks. Like, took it to them, like actually like dictated the game. So it's like they can do that to anybody. It's, I feel like to me, they're a feisty wildcard.

team. Like, you know what I mean? It's just like they get in. You're like, God, this could be a pain in the ass. Like we, we might be. I agree. Yeah, but it's, are you scared of Teddy? No, but Teddy, like, does a lot of nice things. Like, he's your replay is out. He's going to check it down when he needs to. He's, he's, he's a, he's a compliment. But it's, it's, it's, it's, it's bad Johnson. Like, that's what Teddy Bridgewater is. He's Brad Johnson. But it's, it's getting to this. It's like, watching this team. It's like, okay, they don't, if they made the playoffs, I wouldn't be like, wow, they got lucky. It's like, no, it's, it's like, it's like, it's, it's like, it's, it's like, it's, it's, it's good, solid team. And I want to talk just before we move on, just mention, obviously what happened at the beginning of the game today with only having 10 players on the field as just a way to kind of honor to Marius Thomas and what happened this weekend. It's tragic. I mean, there's no other way around it. 33 years old.

I mean, we all remember what he was during his career. I didn't know him at all. I remember the only small kind of story I have. I remember in 2014, the year after they played. played the Seahawks in the Super Bowl. I was doing a story about Cam Chancellor, and Demarius Thomas is the one who got hit by Cam Chancellor over in the middle at the start of that game.

And I was doing a story about Cam and kind of those moments that he'd had. And I called Demarius Thomas to ask him about it. And so many guys would just not pick up the phone. It's a bad moment for them. They would have no interest in talking about it. And he was just so considerate and thoughtful. And just the fact that he was willing to be like, yeah, you know, and tell me about it.

it and all of that. It just seems like the kind of guy he was. It seemed like a very generous person. And obviously, you know, it's a loss for the NFL community. And I think that the way that they honored him at the beginning of that game today and just some of those moments with Justin Simmons bringing the ball over to the decal after the interception. I mean, it's just one of those things where it's hard not to feel something in those moments. So I just wanted to mention that before we move on because it's something that has been on my mind. Yeah.

And seeing the outpour of players, coaches. is everyone that's around him kind of like, he was a very thoughtful guy, it seemed like. And I mean that's not just like, oh, giving and everything, which he was, but more of a, I think he's more than just an athlete. I think that was a better way to put it. Like, he's a very thoughtful human being. And you could tell his conversations with people affected people positively. And so it's a loss.

And I met him once in high school camp. I think we're at the same class. But I met him once. That's exactly how he was then. I mean, it was brief, you know, a quarterback receiver. like hey and he was just like throw it as far as you can and I was like I try dude but yeah that's that's all I can say is just like the the the response like really reflects what type of guy he was and it's a type of type of athlete you want in pro sports that's

that's all I can say about it and I just yeah it's a tough loss why don't you explain this to me like I am an eight year old all right every Sunday some stuff happens that we need a little bit more context on. Let me a little bit more explanation. I want to talk about what's going on in Jacksonville right now. Obviously, it's been a strange week. We'll get to the report that Tom Pelliserro had this weekend. They get beat up again today.

They get shut out against the Titans. As Urban Meyer meets Mike Vrable at midfield, a guy who was on his staff for multiple years at Ohio State just completely blows him off, has this dead look in his eyes. I don't even know where to start with this. I mean, it is, can you remember a first season for a coach that has been more of a disaster than this one has been for Urban Meyer and Jacksonville? Like, Lou Holtz, like in the 70s, we're trying to run the triple option in the NFL, like before I was born. It's, I mean, it's, we were talking about, we had a discussion about the Jaguars or about Trevor Lawrence and talking about the situation. and I was like, man, I'm, like, disappointed in Marvin Jones.

Like, I was like, man, you know, he's a smart, hardworking dude. Like, he's been in this offense before. Like, he just is lack in detail. I understand why now. Like, and I think that's, I understand why. I'm sorry, Marvin. I wasn't too harsh on you then, but it was like, I get maybe the lack of urgency you might have.

But it's just gotten worse. I mean, it's just been a domino failure. Like, it's just like starting right off the bat, hiring the strength coach, then the free agency, he was just stunned by the process of free agency. I thought it was going to be like recruiting and stuff like that. We've joked about it before. The NFL free agency is highest bidder. Or if there's two teams that are high bids, then, okay, then maybe you know, schmuse them a little bit.

But he just thought it was like, I'm going to give $100 handshakes. We're good. Like they're going to come on in. The Travis Etyn pick when Rashad Bateman, Elijah Moore or even Rondale Moore is on the board. And James Robinson is already on his team. And then he goes and signs Carlos Hyde. I mean, just prefers Carlos Hyde. It's Simon Potter.

Like, you know, like, hey, just an innings eater. or just take five reps away from him. It's like, no, he's like, no, I'd prefer this guy. And then the Tim Tebow signing. I mean, the signing, and this was a joke at first, but it seems true now. It's like basically he's signing guys that he remembers from the recruiting trail from five years ago, all the five stars that it's just like every guy has to be a five star. Like, look around Treadwell and all those guys.

It's like, it's bad, man. And that's not even again to this last month with the James Robinson ordeal. I think it's the best way to put it, but just like. all the press conferences with that saying, oh, yeah, that's, I don't micromanage. And it turns out, it's like, you're throwing some dudes under the bus. And that's not right. It's a very, very huge lack of leadership. I mean, obviously, I mean, lack of leadership.

The Tom Pellasera report that came out on NFL network earlier this weekend. Apparently during a staff meeting, if you guys haven't heard this, I'm sure you have. Yeah. Apparently, Urban Meyer said, was talking about how he was a winner. All of his assistants were losers and then was asking them to defend their resumes during the meeting. held up his Super Bowl ring and said, yeah. He would never do that, but. I just don't, I can't even comprehend that.

Like, you hired all these guys. Yeah. Like, this is your staff. You put this staff together. His carpalash over the whole organization. Like, he can do whatever he wants. And then coming out today after the game and being asked what the problem was, and you're like, yeah, well, you know, there's a leaker.

You know, as soon as I find out of who that guy is, he's going to be got, he's going to be out of here. I don't understand why he should be the coach tomorrow. Yeah. I don't typically do this where I'm very hesitant and very slow to call for people's jobs because I know what that entails. But if you're going to be belittling your entire staff and I mean, at a certain point, why is he the coach? Like what what reason is there? What argument is there in favor of him being the coach there anymore? If he's going to do that to his staff members, if he's going to be alienating guys like Marvin Jones,

if Trevor Lawrence is going to be the one having to come to him and say, I want you to play James Robinson, you are alienating and you are risking the long-term health of your organization and your young players by keeping him in place as the coach right now. Just let Beville handle it for the next month. Yeah. Why? What's the downside at this point?

Oh, and like, it's embarrassing to let him keep doing this. The fact that Trevor Lawrence, who's like, yeah, I don't mean a bad way, but aloof. Like, he's just kind of like, hey, you know, it's just kind of how he vibes. The fact that he was in a press conference going like, yeah, we're going to play this guy. We've had a discussion and we're playing this guy. And it was like, oh, shit. Like, all right, you pissed off this dude.

That's your star court. Like, that organization is going to care about 16 first. And that's like what Urban doesn't understand. It's the lack of leadership, lack of accountability. He never has answers. Like, even at post game press conferences, the press, I've watched way too many this year because I care about Trevor Lawrence. And so I watch these press conferences.

And he doesn't have any details about the games. Like the press will go like so-and-so went out like or you guys had three turnovers today. And he was just, oh, we had three. Wow. Wow. I didn't know that. And I was like, you get, the Cincinnati bagels game. He was like, oh, after the turnover, I think this is how it went.

He was like after the turnover and someone was like, you guys didn't have a turnover. And he was like, oh, you like pounded the table. And it was just like, how do you not know this? Like what are you doing during the game? Are you just hanging out? Like, where's your mind go? And you, I know, are you supposed to be a grinder and be there all the hours? And it's just like, so what do you do?

Like what, what do you do? So like you said, I, I am not one because it's a tough profession. And so I know how hard it is, trust me. And I know what it can do to families and all that stuff. But it's like, it's bad. And it's like, this is just as bad as it gets. That's the best way I put it. It's the as bad as it can ever get as that first year head coach.

This was always a low floor move. It is twice as bad as I ever imagined it would be. Yeah. And the way they look up. on the field, the way, every single report that's come out, the way that he's handled it, just the optics of it. Pre-season loss. It's, every single aspect of it is, it's truly embarrassing.

Yeah. Like, the, they're, it's been rough for them for the last few years. But to get the stink off of them from this is going to be really, really difficult. I mean, they have dug themselves a whole for whoever the next coach there is going to be. There is no possible way if you're Shot Khan, you can look yourself in the mirror and justify doing this again. I don't know if you can justify keeping him around for the next month. The fact that he's making like assistance and players be the bigger men in public, those press conferences and stuff after throwing them under the bus all the time.

It's like, that's not a head coach. Head coach is head coaches and quarterbacks. That's why you get paid the big bucks is you take. You're workable per best every time you go up there and you take it. That's just what it is. Yes, once in a while you have to send some messages and have to do that. But it's like, you're taking the brunt. You know, I got to be better.

I got to, you know, really help. But he's just like, yeah, you got to ask them. I don't micromanage. It's like, dude, like you just do not do that as a head coach. Like I, I, I, it's bad. I just, it's actually kind of like ticks you off. Like it's just like that's what it's. It should be a fun year.

It should be such a fun year for them. It should be into the new era with Trevor Lawrence. And it's like, it feels awful. Like you said, it's like the stink that they've had before is just like, now they just dows themselves in it. All right. Next one here. I just want to touch on this briefly.

Something else that requires a little bit of explanation. The Panthers quarterback situation is an absolute nightmare. The way that they've handled this. So you look at it, this is the team in the last 12 months that's had four starting quarterbacks after they pulled Cam Newton today. They benched Cam Newton today to put PJ Walker in for a little bit. So even if they put him back in the game, they have consciously moved on for either in total or for little stretches

from Teddy Bridgewater and then from Sam Darnold and now from Cam Newton to put throw PJ Walker in there. They have fired their offensive coordinator. At a certain point you have to step back and have a little bit of self-awareness about what is wrong here. I mean, you can keep

firing offensive coordinators or yanking quarterbacks and switching them out. This thing feels to be rotten at a much deeper level than whoever's calling plays or throwing passes. Yeah, it's just changing their mind every single day what they want to be, what they want to do. Like, it's, there's no excuse.

It's like, even if Cam is 75% of Cam, it's still Cam over PJ Walker. It's like, it's pretty like, XFL PJ Walker and Cam Newton who was starting for the Patriots last year. And like, okay. Like, it's, there, even the contract situation with those quarterbacks with Teddy and all that. It's like, oh my God, what do you guys? Like, they're just, just every day. It's like there's compounding a single mistake. It's like, you know, you guys have.

a top 10 pick this year, right? You know, could probably, if you really want to have a new direction with the quarterback, like, that's kind of a not bad way to find a guy. And even if you look at like personnel where all the guys come from, like, player, player wise, the fact that they have so many temple players. And it's just like, okay, Irving Meyer having a whole bunch of Ohio State and Florida players is one thing. Those are, it's Ohio State and Florida.

Temple. Like, Hassan Reddick's a good player. Don't get me wrong. But it's like, it's, that just shows kind of what, what they're thinking is with the roster building. It's familiarity and like, hey, this doesn't work. I'm going to go with something that's comfortable. I don't know, Cam.

So, hey, PJ, let's pretend that we're in Philadelphia right now. Like, that's what I felt like to me. And it was like in the second after, I go, shoot, I shouldn't have done that. All right, Cam, get back in there. It's like, what do you do? Like every, I don't know where it's coming from, but it's just, it just seems so scatterbrained. And it's, yeah, the vibe changes every single week.

It's weird. It's just weird. It's weird. It's bizarre. And they're going to be in the market for another quarterback this off season. And do you have any reason to have. faith in their ability to choose that quarterback or put him in the right spot or who they're going to pick as their offensive coordinator.

I mean, the lack of focus here and just the lack of vision. I mean, every, the priorities. Yep. And the way that they're chasing things. It's so frustrating. It's like, every 10 minutes, it seems to change. I mean, them yanking him today after everything that that's happened and then putting him back in the game.

It's like, this is, this is not real. You are not a serious franchise. No. It's stuff that we make fun of other franchises for doing. Yes. Like the Texans are so lucky right now that the Panthers are doing what they're doing and the Jags are doing what they're doing. And the Jets exist. The Jets exist.

Oh, God. Yeah. It's a lot of stink right now. It's like, you know, the team with the worst record is why we feel the best about. That's the lions. Because at least it's like they have an identity. It's like, it's like it's a feel good vibes going on up there. Because it's this team.

This. just watching it, it just seems like every, even how they structured the offensive line, we haven't emphasized this enough. We've talked about a couple times. It was like that going into the season with Cam Irving as your left tackle was like, it's like malpractice like it really is. And it's like Cam Irving's a fine backup. That's what's nice about him.

He can play center. You can play tackle guard. That's a backup. And then they're like, nope, you're our starting left tackle. And they could have taken Rashon Slater if they wanted to. Exactly. Even if we think J.C. Horn is going to be a good player. they put themselves in this position.

They had a chance to either have a new quarterback in the top 10 or draft the left tackle in the top 10. These are all self-inflicted wounds. It is a rough situation there. Just because even if we have some confidence in some of the players there and we're like, all right, we'll see what happens this off-season. I just think that the way that they've handled this, it's hard to feel good about their decision-making process and what it's going to look like here, even into the off-season.

Yeah, it's like when they took a Derek Brom. around early to last year. It was like, maybe they're looking at the different things than they should be looking at it. As your fingers start to slide down the front of the belt.

What's you going to do when Hulkomania and the largest arms in the world destroy you? All right. There are a couple different people in contention here. I wanted to at least mention Justin Herbert's name,

with that throw that he had today. He had a few throws today. But that bomb to Jalen Guyton is just a one of one out of this world throw. I watched it so many times because I was just in awe of it. The camera guy had no idea. He was like, just throw still going. He like stopped the pan. It was like a movie.

It was like, oh, shoot, I got to keep going. He had half a second to reset. He escaped from the pocket and he had half a second to reset to even get that ball off is insane. Insane. Insane. The, it's just like, all right,

he was like full speed out, it broke contain. Like he was like, did, it wasn't just like a little trot, like getting rhythm, like crow hop. It was full speed,

stop on a dime and then torque your body to throw it 60 something yards. It's, it's insane. It's 65 yard dime for a touchdown. And it was still going. It gets a too high coverage. He ran straight down the middle of the two safeties. It was like,

oh my God. It was like a cold pepper to Moss one. Like that's what it was. But it was like hard. with the difficulty level cranked all the way up. Like it, it was awesome. Like, that was one of the throws of the year. Like, he's just, he's doing this weekly now.

I mean, that's what it's so much fun to watch. He's, he's incredible. Like, congrats to get him in the QV draft. Oh, thank you. I got him sixth among all the quarterbacks in the NFL and he still has two more years on his rookie deal after this plus fifth year option. So I feel pretty good about that. I am not, we're not going to give to Justin Herbert today, though.

I want to give it to Will McClay. and the Cowboys front office. Yeah. And we talked about it a little bit, but their ability to build this team in such a way that the offense doesn't even have to be clicking and for them to win games and for them to be going to win the NFC, is going to fight for the number one seat in the NFC.

The fact that they have a top five defense by DVOA this year, we never expected that. Ever. We're hoping they'd be average. Yes. What Michael Parsons has been for them, what Trayvon Diggs has done as an, ascending player. This year, they drafted Michael Parsons in the first round and O'Digizua in the third

round. Last year, they drafted C.D. Lamb and Trayvon Diggs in the first two rounds. Plus, Neville Galmore and Tyler Byattus, both of whom are starters. 2019, they traded their first round pick for Amari Cooper. They got Tony Pollard in the fourth round. 2018, they drafted Michael Gallup in the third round and Dalton Schultz in the fourth round. And obviously, the 2016 draft, they get a top five, top seven quarterback in the fourth round. You look at the amount of talent they continue to stockpile here and the fact that it has given them different avenues to win games. I mean, the fact that their defense looks like this and they have all of these ascending players and every single year, it feels like one or two more guys get dropped into the equation here, which is the overall talent level on this roster. They've done a fantastic job building this thing.

Yeah. I mean, they might have to like send the Broncos a gift basket for, taking certan so they can get parsons because it's like they I mean we talk about teams pivoting like their game plans or anything like that they pivoted as a franchise going into parsons because they were going corner all the way that's like one remember we were doing the draft show and it was like they showed like the front office like in the little the draft room and it was like it was emptied because they're like oh god what we do now well worked out for them and hitting first round picks is one thing but hitting on draft after draft not just finding guys are like hey this guy's

useful this guy's a special team or this guy's a special team or this guy's are our backup tight end who plays 12 snaps. It's plus players. Yeah. The Dalton Schultz of the world. That gallops of the world. Tony Pollard. Those are all plus players. Like it's and like even just talking about their interior defense aligned. Those are, it's a very fun team. Like we mentioned before like to Marcus Lawrence, another one second rounder. Like those are those guys all homegrown guys. All home. Exactly. And it's one thing because you know, Jerry's going to take care of cowboys. Like that's one of the cool things about that franchise, it's for a reason.

Like honestly, it was like for, like, these guys are getting these contracts and staying there for a reason. Like, these guys are good, good players. And it's really fun to watch. Like, you just mentioned, it's like, it's, the offense doesn't have to be perfect. Dak Prescott doesn't have to play perfect. We, we talked about them as an MVP, jinx the shit out of them because ever since then, it's like falling apart.

But the cowboys haven't, like the cowboys haven't fallen apart. They're still winning because they have different places to go. I mean, they have that one bad draft. In 2017, they drafted Taco Charlton in the first round. Everyone keeps freaking out because T.J. Watt was in that draft. As somebody, as a Cowboys fan, take a step back, take a deep breath. You guys have drafted so well and assembled so many good players here over the last few years. Very few teams have done a better job of stocking the cupboard full of talent than the Cowboys have.

And that was the feeling I had today while watching that team. When you have Trayvon Diggs in Terry McLaurin's hip pocket for most of the first half, and you have all three of those pass rushers just crushing people. Getting a star corner in the second round is so rare. We don't realize that. We do not realize that. Most top corners are lottery picks. Like it's just, it's a hard position. The fast big guys are going to go early.

So getting a Trayvon Diggs, who's a plus plus corner, hardest position to find guys in the second round. It's like, you know, tip of the cap. That's scouting and development. That's what they're doing. When you watch that defense today, it was just a wave of ability. And I just wanted to give some credit to the guys who built that wave of ability, who built that roster, because it can be overwhelming in the way that it was today. Yep.

All right. That's all we got tonight. Just a quick heads up. Nate will be on the mailbag show. We're recording tomorrow, so please send in your questions. You can give us a call. Leave us a voicemail. It's 872-22-2-7.

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Until then, appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.