The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Tyreek Hill goes off, the Titans find their groove, a Raiders mirage, debating Matt Stafford vs. Sam Darnold, Bears chaos & more in our week 12 review

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

Week 12 of NFL action has wrapped up, and it was certainly an action-packed weekend. Join The Athletic's Robert Mays and Nate Tice for their overview of the biggest headlines, from the Chiefs offense putting up ridiculous numbers, to what's going on with the Raiders, the Titans dominating the Colts, the Browns moving to a surprising 8-3, looking into some intriguing QB landing spots and so much more. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome. The athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight is my good buddy Nate, Tice. Nate, how are you? Doing great. A dozen weeks in.

I'm just glad you're here, by the way, after that Sunday night. Extravagance us. All right. Listen, that's fine to me. I have no hope. I'm not holding out any hope for this year. If it gets bad enough, I think everyone will understand that changes probably need to be made. I mean, you could see it in that game.

They're giving up. I mean, the defense, their spirit is completely broken. And that was going to happen after a certain amount of time. And after several years, of course it's going to happen. I think you saw it down the back half of last season, and it's here again. And I don't know if it's anyone's fault specifically, but I think after a long time, as a defensive player, even when your unit is good, you understand there's no hope. And you wonder what you're playing for.

And I think that we've reached that point again. they've reached that point as a franchise. And now I just think it's time to keep an eye on the standings. I mean, for the most part, things went well today. We're talking about the bears, by the way. I mean, if no one caught that, the team that I root for, and I'm very sad about it on a general level, but I'm not sad about today.

But if you look at a lot of the things that went down just in terms of the results today, they were good for the bears. The Giants won, the Falcons won, the Niners one. I mean, these are all teams that are going going to be jockeying in the top 10 of the draft. I mean, when you're talking about a team like San Francisco or New England, who also won, these are teams that can potentially draft a quarterback. The Bears are also five and six. There is nothing to say the Bears can't have a top

10 pick in this draft. And with so many other quarterback needy teams outside of the top 10, a team like Washington theoretically winning that division and going all the way down to 19, this is where my head's at right now. Lose every game by 25. Because that was my biggest concern about this year is they go eight and eight and they're still stuck in no man's land with no route to get a quarterback. But if you get into the top 10 or somehow, whatever, this is the better outcome is just everything being torn down after this season. So is it hard to watch? Yes. Is it embarrassing? Yes. But would I rather have this than an eight and eight year where everyone convinces themselves that let's run it back and if one or two things go differently,

maybe the outcome will be different? Absolutely. This is better if you care about the bears in any sort of long-term way. Because it lets you put a full palm and wait into the reset button as opposed to just a finger or two and maybe glance at it like, oh, I'm not sure. And it's funny. Like you know, you mentioned it's like, yeah, it's not great watching the defense kind of have those moments of like, oh, what's the point? Almost like a nihilistic way of playing defense. Because like I even saw a passionate competitor like, Bill Mac, he had a nice play today. It was either a sack or a TFL, but then, like, they showed them, and he just kind of just trotted off the field. Like, no. Their spirits are broken. Broken, broken.

Yeah. Not just the offense. It's bad enough when you have one unit and it's just like, you know, one unit's on the field. And it's like, oh, hopefully they have a bit, they have a good time out there for these couple of plays. And then it's like, okay, defense, it's a rally. But when everything is just so bad that even what's supposed to be the strength of your team is not playing with like an edge, it's, it's scary.

And it's like you said, it's at the point where you're going to be standings watching now because you need to start getting a path because otherwise you're going to be in purgatory already kind of stuck in purgatory. And it's like that would happen even more so if they won a game like this tonight. Instead, it's like, okay, now we can really establish what we are or look at ourselves to see what we are as an entire franchise, which right now is it great. There's no sense in doing this. But I've definitely looked back at the win against Atlanta and the win against Detroit. And it's like, man, if you drop both of those games, you have three wins right now. You're sitting there with potentially. top five pick things change. But it could still get pretty bad. And when I say all of this, when I talk about getting a new quarterback and drafting a quarterback, Ryan Pace is not the one making these decisions in this hypothetical world that I'm going to I saw a couple people say that to me today. It's like, you really want him to draft another quarterback? Absolutely not.

This is a hard reset button sort of situation. This is your wish list. This is like the city of Chicago. It's not in charge of the field anymore. Like they could actually improve the field and soldier field and stuff. As I watch them continue losing. and devolve into a top 10 pick potentially. The regime that is currently in charge will not be there anymore.

They've had their moments over the last couple years, but they need a lot of changes there. So we're going to get into everything that happened this week. We're going to talk about Big Titans win, the Browns somehow being 8 and 3 and really controlling their destiny in terms of the playoffs. The Raiders making us pay for everything that we said about them last week. We're going to have a new segment that we're excited about.

A fun, would you rather. Before we get into any of that, though, Chiefs Bucks was the game of the weekend coming into it. It was the game of the weekend several weeks ago. I mean, it was something that I think a lot of people had circled on their calendar. And even though the score was close at the end, for most of this game, there was nothing close about it. I mean, just an absolute showcase for Patrick Mahomes in the Chief's offense for a majority of this game. Do your eyes just glaze over at this point?

I mean, some of the stuff they're doing, it just shouldn't be theoretically possible on a football. field and they seem to have no issue pulling it off and it's truly they're putting the defense today like one page behind it was okay they lit them up when they're trying to pressure and be a man like just ran them off the field tight that's how tyreek had such a big day so the bucks started shifting they're like okay we'll do a little more zone change it up a little bit we they went a little bit uh some cover two in there and the chiefs have shredded them with r pos and the run game a little bit they sprinkled then, especially in the third quarter when they kind of changed it up a little bit. And Mahomes was just totally in control.

Like you said, the eyes are glazed over. Again, he has these throws that are like, you run out of words to say, especially me. I'm already limited my lexicon anyways. And he hits, he hits this one, the Tyreek Hill, the little short go ball. It's in between a fade and a go. And it's an unbelievable throw. Tyre Kill gives the late hands. And it's like, it's so crazy to see.

It was great coverage. 10 great coverage to a 510 receiver. It was great coverage. It was a tough day for Carlton Davis overall. On that play, he was fine. He was in the right spot. He probably should have done a better job of reading those hands, but Tyree Kiel did a great job of making them late.

So it's just a great play. The first touchdown he scored to me is the most ridiculous just because of everything about it. There was the out and up where Mahomes just throws its 55, 60 yards perfectly. And a couple different things about that play. One, the out and up that he runs is run at full speed. Essentially, the out part of it is one step and he never slows down. Davis had no chance, like zero chance as soon as he got going.

Two, I was talking to a play caller this week about this very subject. We were talking about some of the plays that the chiefs run. And he essentially told me that if I brought some of that stuff back to my offensive line coach, he would tell me to jump up my own ass. Because it's impossible to protect some of this stuff that they do, how long developing it is, but because you have him, it doesn't matter. It's just this, I mean, this is stuff that's been said over and over again, but it comes to fruition so often that it's worth repeating.

You said this earlier today. These guys were all made for each other. It is this convergence of talent and scheme and everything else. Mahomes is this muse for Andy Reed and the rest of that staff that just brings out the best in them from the first play from scrimmage today. They lined up, and it was a tight split. from the number one receiver on the left side, and they sent Tyreek in jet motion to the right from right to left.

He gets out to the edge of the corner that has no leverage whatsoever. And the first play at Mahomes just flips it to him for like a 25-yard gain. And you're sitting there like, uh-oh. I mean, that's just the type of stuff they have. They are so good at keeping you on your toes. And like you said,

one page behind. I just, again, I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment. It tends to happen with the NFL, which is so weak to week. But you watch a game like that. and you watch what they did in the first half.

When he's throwing for 400 yards, it's like, is there anybody that can beat this team? Are we kidding ourselves to think that with him healthy and with them playing like this, that anyone in the league really has a real shot? And like, right, your first question to me was, do your eyes just glaze over? It's that third, he had a third and 27 that he almost converted.

And it was like, no one blinked an eye at it. It was not like, oh my God, he almost converted that one. It was just like, almost had another one. okay, they're punting. Like, okay, like nothing just happened. And Mahomes makes these incredible throws, and we rave about, we can't rave about him enough.

He truly is unbelievable. But he does the quarterback thing. So while they're in the four-minute situation, he scrambles for a first down, he plops down. He goes down, okay, most quarterbacks are going to do that. They're pretty smart players. But then on the next third down on that four-minute drive

to kill the clock, they run a sprint out, and he's going to his left. And some quarterbacks might spaz out there, and everything is just so calm. It was like, it's just the inevitability. It is the Thanos. I am inevitable. Like, that's how it feels.

It's just like that he was going to convert it. There's not, most guys sprint out to the left, you'd be like, okay, that's, you know, if something goes askew here, like, are they going to panic? Are they going to go down? Are they going to throw some bad throw across their body? It was like, no, he had it just all just so composed. And it's just, I mean, their whole team is just playing fun. Like the defense is creating turnovers.

They're playing a little loose a little bit with some of the stuff they're doing. But and it's kind of, it's kind of crazy is what they're causing is like a smart player is like Brady. They're causing miscommunications to happen because they're just on defensively. They're just, it's what the analogy we brought up earlier this year was full court press, get the ball back, which hit more threes, more layups, more threes, more layups. They just keep coming at you. Well, they're playing more press than anybody in the league. I mean, they're.

And it seems pure aggression on defense because I think they understand the stylistically. That's all they need to do. You create a couple of mistakes and you win the game because your offense is going to store. score that consistently. It's really remarkable how in command he is at all times. Like you said, the RPO's, every time they seem to bring heat, he had an answer for it. There was one play in the first half. I can't remember who was completed to, but it was just a little slant replace on a blitz off

the edge. He hit him right in half a second. And it's just like, well, I guess we can't do that anymore. It just, he takes so much stuff off the table. There's an answer for everything. So flipping to the buck side of this, obviously the numbers look good in the end, just aesthetically for Brady because of their down three scores. They had to come back. They were a couple big plays. But their offense looked disjointed again. Do you feel like they have any hope of

kind of finding their footing down the stretch here? Or do you think there's just fundamentally something wrong with the way that they're approaching this or the way they're built on offense that's always going to put them a step behind? I just think it's what that Arian's philosophy is. It's just how that offense kind of is. It's built on these matchups. And it's a power offense. in the sense that they are down the field in the passing game, they're coming at you, like, you know, with these overs and routes coming vertically at you, along with running,

and it's cliche, but running duo over and over and over out of just the same formations. And they're able to tie them in with these 11 personnel and some 12 personnel stuff. But it's just what they are. They're going to have these games where it's just not clicking, and it's going to look really ugly because you need some good players for that offense to look good.

I mean, most offenses you need that, but the bar is really low, I think, with that kind of offense. You need the players to win these matchups that you're creating for them. Brady was getting pressured like crazy today. It was, I mean, it felt like 50% of his dropbacks. There was a pressure. And that's the problem is that when you're playing that way, as soon as you start getting guys in your face the entire game,

it's going to start falling apart. I remember I said this like five years ago when I was watching the Cardinals version of this offense, which was very good. That year, I mean, Palmer was an MVP candidate. They went to the NFC championship game. They got blown out. I was at that game, but I mean, it was a really good offense. But I can even remember then watching this offense and this style, and they do a lot of the same stuff now.

It felt like a high wire act where what you're doing is the margin for error is so small. And you don't give your guys a lot of wiggle room in that regard. And I think you saw that even today, like the ball of Godwin, half an inch here, half an inch there. That play has gone off the table. and that's one of the only big plays you had all day. It feels like they're just getting by by the skin of their teeth. Everything feels hard even on the big plays. And I just think that's, it's a dangerous way to live.

Those outrouts at the beginning of the year that we talked about that resulted in a pick six, that kind of sums up this whole offense. It's like you said, it's the inches. And that's what they're saying. They're going with this offense, they're saying, hey, we're going to outperform you and make more of these plays than not. But when you don't make these plays, that's, the high wire act is a great way to put it.

It's just it's an offense that can either drop 50 on you like it's nothing or it's going to make 17 points to look like, you know, it took all day to get there. And like we could barely even put a drive together because they're going to get a lot of three and outs and a lot of these unmanned. That's what happened early today. They were off the field consistently. I mean, it was one of those games. A couple other teams that just had one of those days today, which NFC West team from today are you most disappointed in? the teams that we've talked about a lot on this show, the Rams are the Cardinals.

I guess you could pick the Niners, even though they won, but I assume that that's not the option for you here. I know. Can I preemptively say, like, the C-Ox? I could just say,

like, predict that they're going to disappoint me tomorrow night. I wish so much that I didn't have to watch that game with any sort of interest tomorrow night, but it's a huge fantasy game. The guy I'm playing against us Miles Sanders and Dallas Goddard, and I'm going to watch every snap of that game and hate myself the whole time. I got Youngway Kood and Antonio Gibson.

so I have no shot anyways. I hate to sound kind of like this, but like saying like, oh, I knew this was happening. Kind of, I'm not disappointed by the Cardinals because I kind of expected a bad game like this to happen against the Patriots.

So I'm not disappointed. It's a terrible matchup for them. The Patriots live in man. It has been great this year. But they are fine just doubling Hopkins, running their man double stuff and then just, hey, yeah,

we'll let the other guys beat us. Christian Kirk drops a ball. Other plays aren't clicking. And they're consistent with, their pass rush and pushing the pocket and being very sound with their stuff and not, okay, Kyler might get us, but Kyler at one point, I think in the first half he had negative one yards rushing. I mean, that's pretty ridiculous with what we've seen he's been able to do week and week

out against different speeds and different types of schemes that defense is throwing at them. So the fact that they're able to one double DeAndre Hopkins and then also get this rush on Kyler and not let him do his stuff. So it was a really fun kind of schematic battle. It's fun seeing Belichick against these unique type of offenses, whether it be a a Ravens offense or the Rams a couple years ago. So, okay, that's not even my answer is the Cardinal. So I guess my disappointing answer of the week would be the Rams offense, even though they

did some fun things with Robert Woods and I love them, everybody loves them, but just really disappointed how they look today. Like they just, the pocket kind of kept collapsing. Gough was off on his throws. He had one of a kind of a bad golf day. They can't get things going. And I get with the 49ers is kind of their bogey team. They kind of have their number on with, they kind of know everything.

they're about to run and it makes them look really sloppy and disjointed. I think it's more just I expect the Rams every week to have these fun, schematic stuff and really cool stuff that they do every week. So I guess it was more just, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed with the Rams offense this week. I kind of fall in a similar boat because I think that this sort of disjointed performance from the Cardinals is something that we've come to expect is because their passing game doesn't find a rhythm that easily.

There was that one drive where it seemed like they were hitting Hopkins on time and they were developing something there. Outside of that, again, it just looks out of sync so often, and they need Kyle to make those plays, especially in the red zone. If he's not making plays inside the 20. So I looked up the numbers today. I think he's third in the NFL and rushing EPA in the red zone, among any players, including running backs.

But he's 15th in passing. So as a passer, they become really limited in that area of the field. But what he can do with his legs changes things. They stall out inside the 10th. if he's not running the ball. And that's exactly what you saw today. They got stuffed on the one. I mean, it's a pretty regular occurrence.

Yeah. With the Rams. So I went back and I watched that whole game again. And I came away more impressed with the Niners than I was disappointed in the Rams. So the first golf interception, I'm curious what you thought about that. I guess he thought that it was cover three, I assume, that Sherman was going to get run off by the go. and that Higbee was going to come underneath it, but Sherman was just standing right there.

It was also a bad throw if he was even throwing it to Higby. It was bad all around. The second interception is just a terrible decision. He threw it right to Kinlaw. Even on that play, Greenlaw did a really good job. I think it was on Cup when they were trying to just get that little choice throughout the cup that they like in short yardage situations. And Greenlaw was just sitting right there.

You saw that a bunch today, where they just had a really good feel for doubling cup on those plays with the linebacker. Warner had a couple of plays where you could tell he had a really good sense of what was going on. The Niners linebackers play with really good eyes. And against the Rams, it's such an important thing to do because they take advantage of those guys play after play after play. So the Niners, they're really well coached and their linebackers are really good in coverage.

It's a tough team for the Rams to play against because those are usually the guys they beat up on the entire game. Yeah, it's linebackers kind of had this last kind of decade or so a little bit of the, I wouldn't say the runbacks don't matter discussion, but it's one of the those things. There's a lot of interchangeable linebackers. Listen, the Rams are trying to play it out to its extreme right now. So I, trust me, I've been paying attention. And so with that is you see these offenses really trying to attack guys that might not be the best players on their unit. And it's, it's funny with the first interception, though, like it's the classic guy about to shoot a jump shot

from 15 feet, 12 feet, doesn't know whether there's shoot for the rim or bank it in. Yeah, yeah. shoots in between. It kind of just hits the side of the rim and it kind of like really bad. That's kind of what the golf first pick was. The second one was a late rush got there and he, yeah, I think it was going to get picked anyways, even if he didn't get like kind of hit as he was about to throw.

It was kind of, it was just a weird game. There's seven turnovers total in the game. Like Aaron Donald played out of his mind. Out of his mind. He like ascended to a different plane. He had the strip sack, the strip for the touchdown.

And then the very next play, he gets a sack. He tipped the ball for the first Mullen's interception. I mean, he was a monster in this game, and they still lost. I mean, just a couple little plays here and there. Golf missed Henderson down the sideline for that would-be touchdown. And then Ward did a great job on Woods on third down right after that. Yeah.

Ward had a great day today. He was awesome today. Yeah, yeah. A couple of plays where they could tell that I think they tried to get him on double moves just like a little like, similar to what we've seen Adams do a couple times in the red zone. Just that little double move straight vertical up the field. And Ward did an awesome job on that a couple different times. Again, I was just impressed by the Niners defense.

I thought they looked really well coached the entire game. I do too. You kind of keep forgetting is, you know, these seasons are, it's funny. It's so week to week. And it seems like it goes by so quick. It's week 12 already. But you forget some of the injuries that happen early on. So it's like, oh, this 49ers defense looks so good.

And they don't even have Nick Bosa, you know, and some other. pieces that got beaten up throughout the year and you forget that like and it's like oh they just got richard sherman back today he's been out for the season you you forget about it you honestly do it's like we're pretty in tune with what goes on and you kind of just like because you see it really is more like a two week every two weeks it kind of resets the league and you kind of reassess okay who has what what players playing this week you know like a team like the broncos has nobody playing for him this week but but like but with something like this it's like yeah you forget these pieces that these guys have. And also, it's better at the end of the season. And you can really evaluate, wow,

this coach accepted a hell of a job. Or like, wow, it's kind of cool seeing that guy take the most of his, or make the most of his chance that he had because another guy went down that when you're kind of in the micro view like we are right now, you kind of, it slips through the crack sometimes. Yeah, I don't, I have nothing to say about that Broncos game. Like, I didn't really watch it. I watched the first quarter because I thought it was weird and interesting, but now it just got boring in a hurry. We could talk about that later as it relates to the Saints on another day. But yeah, it's like, it's like an art house film that your buddy tells you to watch. And you're like, you know, I'm willing to watch anything. But it's kind of one of those after

about 10 minutes of it. You're like, okay, I got it. I got what I'm about to watch here. I'm good. Yeah, it was, it was fine. It was one of those things. It was like, all right, I get why this would be entertaining for a little while, but I'm not going to keep it on the whole time. The one thing I want to say before we move on, the juice check pass to get them into field grow range to make it 20 to 20. is just such Shanahan shit that I loved. He, Eusechek is in the left slot. They motion borne into the flat to pull Ramsey into the flat.

And then Eusechuk runs him off down the sideline. And then he hits him for a 20 yard gain, gets them into field goal range. He is putting this thing together with duct tape and rubber bands and like, and Nick Mullins. I mean, that's exactly what this is. They went to Juscheck on fourth and one. And I was like, yeah, that's, that's the best call.

right there. That's the best player. It's amazing. It's amazing. Duct tape and gum. Putting it together. That's hilarious. We will get to the 49ers quarterback situation a little bit later in the show. Before we do that, let's get to who won the week. Just win, baby. All right.

My first candidate here, Arthur Smith brought it today. I mean, the entire Titans' offensive staff, the entire Titans' offensive group of personnel. Just an incredible performance from them today. Derek Henry goes 27 carries for 178. Tana Hill average more than 10 yards per attempt. AJ Brown had another big day. Colts allowed more points in the first half than they have in any game this

entire season. Thank you to our producer, Kent, Karrison, for putting that in there. That is remarkable. I mean, and it felt like that. It felt like they were just moving the ball at will today. Was there anything they did out? of the norm that jumped out to you? Do you just feel like this was the perfect version of this type of offense and what

they like to do? It was a perfect version. It was a lot of what they'd normally do, but you get to see the Arthur Smith week-to-week tweaks that they do. Yeah. On the first drive, second drive, they ran a counterplay and they ran about three times today. I have never seen the Titans run counter.

So it was like, oh, okay. It worked today. I noticed it too. It worked. And he actually looked okay running it. Yeah. The first one, Henry. you can tell they don't do it a lot because Henry messed up the footwork and Tana Hill had to switch hands,

which ball he was handing off. That's really funny. Yeah. And it's good. I don't blame it because especially with counter because just how you hear the numbering because you have to reverse your feet and yeah, whatever. But it can get it. It's a timing run. If you're not used to it.

I can see it. Yeah. No, it's one of those where I was like, no, I get it. That's why I wasn't making fun of. It was more like, oh, wow, that's interesting. You see NFL's NFL guys screwed up too. But it's just like last week, when. we saw the Titans were running some outbreakers against the Ravens kind of jumpy D.Bs.

You know, the AJ Brown touchdown was the Inbreaker, which we should just name the AJ Brown play at this point, just him catching the Inbreaker off play action. Last week, they ran an Outbreaker, which they did a couple times today, but they're throwing these changeups. And now every week they're throwing in a new changeup. So they're just adding these new pitches to a repertoire. And it pays dividends down the road. Hey, we got game reps at these plays that we might have to run later in the year. the opposing team the next week now has to worry about a whole new batch of plays that we might throw in there. And it might not seem like it's like, oh, it's two run plays. It's an outbreaker and it's a counter run play.

Like, well, that's not much difference. But when you hit them, that takes time and practice reps from the opposing team that's trying to break you down. It's cool. They hit what they always hit. They hit the AJ Brown inbreakers. Tanhill did enough nice stuff with his legs and throw on the ball. He had the nice deep ball at the end of the half to Corey Davis.

Yep. And then they just throw in these nice changeups with the staff. They're on fire on offense. They do it every week. And it's really fun to watch them do it in their own unique way. And yeah, I'm a fan of watching them. They took advantage of the Colts being beat up up front. But that's the thing.

They took advantage of it. That's what you want a good team with a good offense to do. Take advantage of your matchup advantage that you have that week. And you don't apologize for a win. We talked about it last week when we were watching them in the second half. It felt like they tapped back into something. It really did. And I think you saw a lot of that same stuff today.

On the AJ Brown touchdown, not only is it sort of in-breaker yards after catch play that we expect from AJ Brown, but Tanyl is getting a shot as he completes that pass. And that's one of his strengths. He does a really good job of delivering balls when he's about to get the shit kicked out of him. It's a big part of a lot of the – his success under pressure is a huge part of why they're good on offense. And that's something that everyone assumed would just crash back to Earth this year because it was so good last year, but he's maintained it. And it's so funny that you said the wrinkles because my favorite play they ran today, it was. It was a 425 left in the second quarter. They lined up in 11 personnel, and they motion swayed back into the backfield as a fullback.

So they have them in a light defense, and it's a six-man box, and they just ran a zone lead play with the six-man box. And Henry took it for 31 yards. I was watching that. And I was like, oh, that's the good shit. That's really good. I like that a lot. That was the one, too, is they kept Henry, you could tell as a coaching point, was to widen, and then plant your foot and get it. get north on the exact same run that you're talking about.

And because they knew Darius Leonard keyed the fullback. So yeah, what the fullback was due was getting wide and then Darius Lender runs himself out of the play, just blocks himself and then Henry just plans us for it and gets north. It's like they know what they're getting each week. That's what helps when you have a fastball you can rely on every week. You start knowing what little nuances that you want to change up week to week.

That's what, you know, Shanahan does beautifully every week is that those little changes that just change up the stuff. It's so funny that you mentioned Shanahan because when I watched them run those plays today and all the outside zone runs that they had today, they make it look so good. They make it look so natural. So Keith Carter is their offensive line coach. He's been there for three years. He was the assistant offensive line coach when Shanahan was in Atlanta. So he clearly is he has this in his DNA. And when you watch this offensive line run this stuff, it clicks for them. It's so smooth. It looks so pretty. There was one run today. I think it was like two minutes left in the second half. And the double teams, the two double teams up front, they got so much movement on it that neither of them came off on the linebacker. They didn't even need to. They just put the defensive linemen in the linebackers in the lap.

Both of them. And it was, that's ideally how you do it every time. Yeah. The movement right off the snap. I like made a guttural noise as I watched it. I was like, oh my God. And that's like you were pushing the sleds with them. Like you're like, yeah.

I mean, and this group is capable of that. And when they're clicking like they were today, they become very dangerous. I mean, I think that we'll talk about the Raiders in a second. In my mind, it's the team that can score with the Chiefs is going to have the best chance. And right now, I think that there's a chance this Titans team has the best offense in the AFC that's not Kansas City. I mean, a lot of the advanced metrics would tell you that. And when they're playing like they are today, I think they can back that up. And that offense, I thought, found a groove late in the Baltimore game.

And I think they continued that today. All right. Let's get to our next candidate here. The Cleveland Browns, man, are eight and three. It was not a pretty win today. They tried to give it away a bunch of times. It was a bizarre Baker game. We could discuss it. Oh, boy.

But they're eight and three. And when you look at the rest of the AFC, the Colts lost today. So the Colter have four losses. The Browns have a game on the Colts because they beat the Colts already this year. So any tiebreaker situation, they're essentially down two games. the Raiders lost, and even though the Raiders have the tiebreaker on the Browns, because they beat them in that ugly rain game, now it's two games.

The Browns are very much in the driver's seat in the AFC wildcard race, especially if Baltimore short-handed loses to Pittsburgh on Tuesday night, then the Browns are sitting pretty. So it doesn't look great all the time, but I do think that, especially on offense, they have tapped into a formula that works for the personnel that they have. I think that Kevin Stefansky has done a remarkable job this year. It's great that we just talked about the Titans because it really has some similarities to what the Titans were last year that maybe they got a little lucky. There may be, it's a formula that, oh, does this formula work? Does it is working for them or is it just working for them in these ugly games or is it something that's sustainable? Because I know they have a negative 21 point differential, but they are winning these games. And like you said, they're tapping into something that's working, just like the Titans did last year and really had something.

They're like, okay, this is, okay, we can build off this. So maybe they're a year early before they're a real, real team. But they're 8 and freaking 3. It's unbelievable. We were talking on the phone earlier today. And I told you when it came up CBS, I think it was an AFC playoff hunt. I just saw Brown's 8 and 3. Like I was like, really?

Like it's one of those like I know that, but I didn't know that. And it's like, oh, that's right. They are 8 and 3. But I mean, watching their run game is so much fun. Callahan's awesome as an O-line coach. And now they're getting healthy a little bit again up front. on. But every type of run that run concept that they run is great. They're in pin pole. They're running power. They run zone. They're running wine back. And they all just look so smooth and put together and cohesive. The training wheels are big time on Baker right now. They are not really trusting him with much. And they won't be coming off at all. It is no. It is monster, monster tire size training wheels. It is sprint outs, boots. Because every time he drops back, he turns into like a quasi-scramble drill. Sprint out to his right. Always. They always. They always does. And I mean, he had the missed touchdown throw was just ugly. He had a couple of ugly misses

today. He missed Crea Hunt on what should have been the game ceiling play on the flat to his right. I mean, he had a couple of those today. But he also had some really nice placement on a couple of those throws. Great placement on the first touchdown throw to Jarvis Landry low and away. The deep crosser to Landry he hit later in the game was a beautiful throw. I think that they're still figuring it out with him. Yeah. And you see all of those boots to the left. And that's a, that's a Stafansky thing. You watch all of the plays that Kirk Cousins did last year doing that exact same thing. It's not a natural movement for a lot of quarterbacks and it works. It's, it's, defenses aren't really used to seeing it that way. Think about the touchdown of Packers score today on that little burner post move that Tanya hit. If you do a lot of rollouts to your left, it can work. It's just unnatural for the quarterback. And I think that Baker has gotten a little bit more comfortable doing it and it's become an even bigger part of their offense because that's something not a lot of guys get reps at. I mean, Cousins had dozens and dozens and dozens of reps at it when he worked with Stancky last year because he worked with Shanahan and Washington. But unless you played in that offense, that's a feeling thing that you develop over time.

And I think that Baker is getting better at it. And I think that this is the version of their offense they need. They're going to run the ball a lot and they're going to keep those training wheels on Baker. Defensively, they're still figuring it out. I think they're banged up. I think when Garrett gets back and Olivier Vernon playing the way he is now, their front can carry them a little bit. they're a paper tiger. They're not a real contender,

but I still think them being as competitive as they are after losing Beckham, having the offense had these sort of flashes. I think it's a really impressive coaching job from a guy in his first year trying to essentially teach a program how to win. I mean, the more wins you can stack up. A lot of teams in the first year of a head coach,

you think, oh, it doesn't matter if we make the, like Washington, for example, I think Washington's actually kind of similar. But I think that for a lot of teams, it doesn't matter if you win in year one if you're going to just screw up your draft position. But for this franchise, winning right now, because you're built

to win right now in terms of the talent that you have, I think it's absolutely important for them to stack up these wins because I think it matters in the building. It's mouthwash for the entire franchise. Exactly. Exactly. It's so needed. And it's funny you brought up the stuff going to his left. And when I was at Wisconsin, coach Chris, we were all right-hand quarterbacks.

he other than Russell none of us booted to our left because he was just saying it's not really an easy throw. I don't want to just create that shitty situation for you. So unless you can handle it, I'm not going to throw it on to you. He's also, you know, great coach. And that's why he understands those types of things. But we in the same thing with that, it looks like Stefansky when they boot him to his left. It's a lot of the settling boot stuff. It's the shot play boots.

And it's smart. Absolutely. He doesn't have to flip his hips around right away. he can flip them, settle, and then make the throw. And but that's like, hey, you're getting shot plays with boot protection. That is, that's cheating. And in a good way, I mean, that's just, that's just a nice, safe design that you can create for maybe a quarterback that's missing some throws.

But, hey, that's good coaching. That's good play design. That's, that's the stuff that they're doing. Like you said, it might be a little bit, they're, yeah, they are a bit of a paper tiger, but at least they're doing good stuff. And those are types of things. I think it's a well orchestrated team and well orchestrated offense. And I think that's the most important thing.

It's also really interesting to watch where Baker sets up on some of the play action throws because they have so many power runs in their offense that they've kind of had to graft these Shanahan Kubiak style boots and play action throws with power run plays up front. And it's, those are two things that typically don't go together. So it's been a process for them to kind of figure it out and figure out where Baker settles on some of these play action throws.

So that's what I'm saying is there's a lot of different things coming. coming together with them, and I still think they're in the feeling out process, and they're eight and three, which I think that's the most you can say about a first year staff. All right, let's get to the bad. It's time for Vince to ask the question here. So, Nate, you and I talked about the Raiders for a good like 15 minutes on the podcast last week, even though they lost to the Chiefs. And as I'm watching them last week, I was like, man, they're figuring it out.

The offense just has it. You know, whatever it is, they have it. They're putting guys in positions to succeed. Derek Carr has just reached a different level this year. And then they come out and they lose 43 to freaking six against the Falcons. And they look completely hapless. I'm tempted to say this is just one of those games that gets away from you. There are a couple, Jacobs misses on the fourth and one.

You have a couple strip sacks. They got a ton of bad breaks in this game. But it also just feels like every time I want to believe in the Raiders, they make me regret going down that road. And this is just another example of that. They're your mid-season bucks. It was, you know, the bucks used to always be your pre-season, your pre-season love, and now this is your mid-season version.

God, they look, I mean, we flew too close to the sun. I was, I mean, I honestly, I watched more of their film, and I was like, yeah, I believe everything I said on that podcast, because that's, they were looking good. They had more drives today than they had first downs. They had 14 drives and only 13 first downs. The entire day, the right side, Brandon Parker, had a rough one. They cannot wait for Trent Brown to get back.

I mean, so they had 11 penalties. Just too much dink and dunk against a defense that's more than happy to allow you to dink and duck. And also, the Falcons were just like bringing the wood today, just smoking guys in the flats and just knocking guys around. They really were. Yeah, they were flying around today. Good for them. And shout out to my man, Young Way, Ku, who I was with in the AAF with the Atlanta legend. so I was happy for him.

Even I had to play against him in fantasy, but a good job, Youngway. But, you know, it's the, it wasn't like the Falcons were bringing it today either. They're on their receiver screens, the Dirk Cutter special. They're, you know, they only averaged 4.2 yards. Julio was gone. You know, it was just an ugly game, but it was the Falcons were a little less ugly than what the Raiders put out there today. But I think we just flew a little two clusters on.

Maybe it was the week against the Chiefs being a divisional thing and maybe knowing what you're getting. loud card to kind of play just a little more aggressive and knowing because he knows exactly what he was getting on each down and distance. So now he's playing a team that he doesn't know as well. So it could be a whole bunch of things. So yeah, we'll continue to watch the Raiders and just maybe I'll hedge a little bit, a little bit more than I did the last couple weeks with them. I think the protection was the surprising thing. I mean, just that hadn't come back to bite them this year when they were missing Brown.

And it did a couple times today. I mean, one, I mean, 91 just roasted Parker for one of those strip sacks. It was quick. But then one of the other ones, Foyosate, Aluacan was one-on-one against Waller. They left him one-on-one and Aluacan just right by him. And that's why Waller's not a blocker. Yeah, exactly, right? That's why you don't do that.

By the way, just quick note, I love Aluicon. That guy can play. Well, you nailed his name, so I know that's why you like him. Look at that. So he was a sixth round pick a couple years ago. And he went to Yale. And I'm curious what you think about this. because I think the idea of developmental prospects is interesting.

A guy like, we're not going to play him right away. He's going to come along slow. So they let Devondre Campbell go in free agency. This guy gets elevated to a different role within the defense. He starts playing well with more reps. Grover Stewart's another good example. Somebody that was taken late, given some time, develops, gets a contract extension. When you draft the guy at the back end, is that kind of the idea with a lot of those guys?

It's like he's just going to sit and we're going to have a plan for him. Do you have a plan in mind when you have those developmental prospects that you know you're going to bring along slowly? Yeah, with a lot of them, you got to get special teams value out of them. Otherwise, it's practice squad because it's, all right, otherwise you're on this roster for no good reason and you're never going to be active. And it's why you're here until you can play. The problem is a lot of teams fall in love with these bendy, maybe more project types. And they take them in the third round when then they can't sit and develop like they should. So they fall in love with these guys and take them at pick 50 in the second round.

And it's like this guy can barely even see the field for the first two two years. He's still trying to figure out how to play football because the draft personnel evaluator just couldn't help themselves because they just could just see the light. They could just see like what this guy could be. But the guy should actually be taken in the fifth or six round. I think it's a lot of your that especially the first year. It's like, hey, if we get special team value out of them and buy after the buy week, can you help us as like if it's, it's a receiver, the number four receiver, if it's a pass rusher type, can be our number four step in and play 20 snaps for us or something of that sort? Good teams have plans and good teams

know how to get depth in the right spots. Not all teams are able to do that. And they'll take a six-round guy that for a guy that they think is a guard that they're going to have as their interior swing guy with no development leading into it. But the good teams do have plans for these guys or they just at least know, hey, this is a home run swing. We give him two years. If he doesn't work out already's off kind of fun seeing actually sidebar seeing the practice squad rules kind of get a little more lenient and change a little bit it would be really fun to see these grow and see these guys get more chances with teams and rip and you can see these coaches and talent evaluators they all have their guys every draft just like people on twitter do or just any draft nick you have your boys and also

a few years later that guy might be available hey let's get him on practice squad like i remember him from the draft and i loved him i would have taken him in the second round if he was with me he he would be a pro bowler and he could barely make the practice squad. But there's going to be a lot more of that. And maybe some of these coaches were actually right when they said that they could turn these guys into a pro bowler. But we'll see. But that's just sidebar.

I do think that's one good development that NFL has been doing. It was interesting. I mean, the guy was a college safety at Yale. And he came along slowly, played a little bit last year, but he's been playing really well. And he's been fun to watch. The guy has a lot of juice. He's really athletic. And with Dion Jones, that's a ton of movement skills in the middle of their defense.

They just seemed faster today. Yeah, they really did. The entire unit just seemed fast. Yeah, I don't know. They just stood up. Kielaniel slined around. Yeah, it was cool to see the Falcons doing that today. All right, let's get to our next one here.

Anthony Lynn is on my list today. I feel like I have defended him longer than most people have, in part because even if they're losing these games, I think they've come to play. It's a lot of close losses. But when you watch what that team look like down the stretch today, it's hard to defend a lot of it. The bills tried to give them that game several times. Returning the ball over in the fourth quarter.

And whether it's the short yardage decisions that they're making, not going for it or not going for it, which has been a problem for them in the past. But today, it was the types of plays they were running in short yardage. The fourth and one up the middle just stuffed the run in the second half that they had was I think it was a readplay, but Herbert

didn't keep it. And even if they had the option, he probably should have. But the third and one speed option to Joshua Kelly is just something that should be ejected into the sun. And when they were coming down, they were down by two scores, and just the complete lack of understanding about how to use the clock, when they were going to go for it, when they weren't. I mean, this is a team that consistently puts itself behind the eight ball in these

moments where you can gain an advantage. Like you said, the chief's feeling so methodical and so in control, the charges the exact opposite of that. And I think that eventually the problem is going to be that guys on the roster understand that. And they lose faith in the coaching staff's ability to put them in the best spots. Guys know that. And I think coaches understand that. I mean,

I remember just talking to coaches that didn't play in the league. And they've always said to me that the thing you have to do is show your guys that you give them answers, that you have answers for them and you can help them. And if you can't, that's when you start to lose. them. And I think that's going to be a problem for the charges here is that if they consistently show the guys in that locker room that they can't help them and that they're putting them in bad spots and contributing to some of these things, it's going to be a problem. And I think we might be reaching that point with Anthony Lynn. Yeah. Football is already hard enough to win,

especially at the NFL level. You only have to do it with one hand tied be out your back. Hidden points, hidden yards, hidden win percentage, however you want to put it, this is where these are at. It's making it a 1% better. for you and these accumulate over time. It might not be a game, but the process will pay dividends and the process of having a good process, you know, like actually knowing how to handle these situations will create calmness with your team, create a hierarchy. Players understand what happens in these tense situations.

That's why music at practice became such a big thing was because the line of thinking was football is chaotic. Game day is chaotic. Yeah. Okay, let's make practice more chaotic and what good sound. players can barely hear the coaches. There's some of that as, you know, how much it is actually is beneficial or not or how much of it is just listening to music during practice. But we could talk about that later.

But I mean, the whole everything with it, they run the ball on that first single. I know like they're down 10, but like just that was the fact that inexcusable. Inexcusable. That's the only way to put it. To run the ball with no timeouts within the last minute of a game, it doesn't matter. It just you can't do that. And that's what Rich, Rich Gannon was calling this. game.

He was the color guy. And it was almost like he went through the entire process I've gone through, but in a truncated period of time. Over the course of this game, he just became disappointed in Anthony Glynn in the same way I have over the last month and a half, where he's just sitting there being like, I don't want to, you know, dump all over the guy. But at a certain point, you cannot keep making these decisions. You cannot run the ball when you have no timeouts left in the final minute of a game.

You cannot have no idea of whether or not. you're going to kick a field goal or whether or not you're going to go for it and call timeout in order to make that decision. It's just they are bumbling all of these decisions and all of these moments and they keep piling up. And at a certain point, it is a problem that cannot be fixed. Even the one, it was the beginning of the fourth quarter, about 10 minutes left. It's still, it was a 10 point game at that point as well. It's fourth and three burns a time out, ends up kicking the field goal.

And if he just, you know, so he burned the time out. That was the last time out, by the way, that they. at the end of the game that when they ran the ball on first and 10, which or first and goal made that look even more stupid. But it was fourth and three. It's a time out. It burns the time out. They end up kicking a field goal.

Even if he takes a delay game there with the time milking down, it turns into a 32-yarder. So it's like, okay, no harm, no foul. Just keep your time out. Knowing that with 10 minutes left, that time and possessions are your most valuable thing. It's a we got to get the most bang for our buck because we might only have two possessions left with 10 minutes left to go. and the fact that no, which knowingly went in the clock burned out to take the timeout

to kick the field goal. It's just, it's a bad process. And that's, these are types of things. They had another one at the end of the first half. They banged the timeout, fourth and two.

And they punted the ball. Oh, that's right. That's right. Oh, my God. I even forgot about that one. Yeah, exactly.

I just was like, I just looked at my note and saw that one too. It's like they just, these are multiple a game. It's not just one bad blemish. And it's like in a 17 week season or a 16 week season that's like, oh man, that was a funny one on Monday night football that everyone, you know, memes about. It's like, no, four of these happen every single game.

That's the problem. Yeah, that's the problem. Because at a certain point, close game luck comes back to Earth where it's like, oh, we got, we're going to get as many as we're not going to get in the long run. But in the long run, this team is not giving itself a chance to get some of these breaks. They're consistently handing them to the other team. And I just don't know how much longer it can continue. I mean, you have your quarterback.

You're going to have another top. 10 pick. You have a lot of good players on the team. Joy, Bose was awesome today. He's had another fantastic season. I mean, you have building blocks, and especially with Herbert back there. And I just think you have to understand, all right, we have to do everything we can to get the most out of him and get the most out of this core that we've built. And I just don't know if this is the right staff to do that. I don't want anybody to lose their job, but you watch it. And at a certain point, this stuff can't keep happening. All right. Let's get to this week's what you rather.

This is a fun one. So I wrote about Sam Darnold this week, and I wrote a big thing about the teams that could potentially trade for Sam Darnold. I had a lot of conversations with people about it. I found it really interesting. I think it's a consideration of quarterback value and when pre-draft evaluations stop mattering. I think there are a lot of worthwhile questions involved in the Sam Darnold conversation. So one of the teams that people kept throwing out because I feel like people are fascinated by their quarterback future because of Kyle Shannan. was the Niners.

And they've been attached to a bunch of different quarterbacks. And with the news on Saturday that the Lions are firing their GM and firing their coach, that is also a team that's now very much in transition. So here is my question for you. If you were the San Francisco 49ers and you were deciding to move on from Jimmy Garapolo this offseason, would you rather give up a third round pick for Sam Darnold or a first round pick for Matthew Stafford. This is hard because I'm higher on Darnold than most people.

I know you are. That's why I was doing this to you because I know it would be difficult. It is. And I still think, though, I would give up a first for Stafford. And a lot of thinking with that is I think he's a bona fide pro bowl-esque quarterback. You can easily win a Super Bowl with him. You can imagine yourself winning a Super Bowl with him and any type of scheme that you ought to run, much less a Kyle Shanahanan scheme. He's a viable QB.

He's, what, 32? And so he has plenty of years left. It's not like a rental, a first round rental or like you're trading for or signing a Rivers or a Brady or even a breeze or resigning him. And it's like, okay, we have all the chips are in the middle. We have a one-two-year window. If you sign Stafford, you kind of have like two windows you can build with with him. And I think that's what makes sense with the foreignaires.

They have some, they do seem like a team that has some mid-true. term long term planning with their short term planning. I think they do do a good job with that or might just be how it just looks on the from the outsider's perspective. But I was just thinking too. It's like, what do we trade first rounders for? I mean, we trade a Stefan Diggs was a first rounder. DeForce Buccner 40 and I traded away him for a first rounder. Sam Bradford when the Teddy Bridgewater got hurt went for a first rounder. And I guess that's a totally different situation. Yeah, for a first rounder. I had to remind myself that one. And I was like, okay, yeah, I would definitely freaking trade a first rounder for Matthew Stafford. No matter where that pick is, I mean, if you get, obviously, the 49ers wouldn't have a

pick in the top 10, it looks like this year because they're playing competitive football. But I do think, you know, first for Stafford just makes more sense. I just do think that's a bona fide super bowl winning quarterback. Darnold, a third rounder is fair value, I think, for Darnold. But there is a lot of question marks. And you still might have a question mark at that quarterback position where you're like, well, we just blew that third rounder. And now we just waste. to time and reps and resources on trying to develop Darnold when he might be a lost cause. So I think there is a lot to consider here. So Stafford's contract situation, it's very tradable.

If you're a team trying to get it, he would essentially cost $20 million against the cap for the next two years. A lot of the money is in signing bonuses and restructure bonuses that Detroit would be on the hook for. So the money is fine. I mean, he's going to make less next season than Jimmy Garoppolo would make. So the Niners, you're actually saving money and you're getting a guy who's a better quarterback. Stylistically, I think it would work. I mean, a lot of the best stuff he did last year under Darrell Beville was play action based. I think that a lot of the middle of the field

stuff they do. His release is very quick in that area. I think he absolutely could do some of that stuff. I'm intrigued by Darnold in that offense though. I think you are as well. Because some of the best stuff that he did for the Jets as rookie was on boot play action plays that were. based on the Shanahan offense. Jeremy Bates was the offensive coordinator there. Bates was a long time Mike Shanahan disciple in Denver. That's where he got his start. And you see those plays where Donald's either wrong right or left and on the move he can make some stuff happen. I also think the best area of his game is how he delivers the ball to the middle of the field. And you see a lot of the stuff they did even today where they did under Garapolo. The play action stuff from shotgun, that's where they like to

attack. I think that if you're going to get the most out of Darnold, that offense is probably the best case scenario for him. I think that's true for a lot of quarterbacks, but I think that even more so his strengths align with what they'd ask him to do. But there's a lot of hope baked into that. And if Darnold does go for a third rounder, which from the conversations that I had, it felt like anywhere between a two or a three, depending on how many people were involved, I still think that for the Niners and for their timeline, Stafford would probably make more sense because you have those two years.

I think that offense for the most part is built to succeed right now with the right quarterback. And with Darnold, you have a year of cheap Darnold next season because it's the last year of his rookie deal, but then that fifth year option is looming. So if you're trading for him,

you're in a tough spot because that fifth year option is now fully guaranteed. This is the first draft class where you have to guarantee it if you pick it up. In the past, you just say, oh, well, we'll guarantee it. And it's only guaranteed for injury.

If we have to cut him, we cut him. It's not a big deal. Now, that's not the consideration anymore. So if he's really good after you trade a third round pick for him, your only option is either pay him or franchise him, similar to what happened with Tanna Hill this year. So you get one really good season after giving up a third round pick for the guy, and you could be on the hook for $90 million guaranteed.

With Stafford, I mean, you maybe pay him to give him some guarantees. guaranteed money up front and appease him right away. But for the most part, he's probably going to be pretty affordable for those first couple years. So I tend to think that as well. And I agree with you with the first round pick. Think about the ways we've spent it in the past. Spending it for a Pro Bowl caliber quarterback is worth it. But I still think that Darnold at that price is an intriguing option for this team in a way it's not for other teams, especially if the Niners do end up playing themselves out of this quarterback draft.

I would just love either of those guys. that offense, though, just to see the cap taken off of that offense. Yeah. Literally the cap and just the top of like, because that was even though Jimmy G had maybe high efficiency stats with D. 2016 Falcons, man. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That's all, yeah. That's all you need to see with a guy like staffer, you know, back there. It's like, but that's, you want to just see that explosive, this element to their offense that's a little more explosive. And we see it a little bit with what the four hours you're doing with, you know, the receiver run stuff, which is going to catch on. even more and more with the Rams and 40 Nairos are doing.

I know it's very unique, but just getting balls and playmaker's hands. Wow, what a concept. But how they're doing it's going to start copy and matriculate around the league. I already know it. But it's seeing a different area attacked by this offense, as opposed more horizontally within 15 yards that they usually attack. It's just me, I just want to see it. Like it's just, it's more just in a football nerd want.

That's why I'd like to see it with Stafford. because Donald is not a good down the field thrower. I mean, you look at all the numbers. That's been a weakness of this. It's more that he's willing than he's able. That's exactly right. He doesn't have that good of an arm. He's a good athlete,

but his arm doesn't really wow you the way, I mean, Stafford obviously does. He's one of the best arms in the history of football. But that's to me what I would like to see. I'd love to see their ability to push the ball down the field and just have it explode out of his hands in the way it does with Stafford. So speaking about Ryan, I wanted to bring this up earlier and I didn't. I wouldn't have an actual discussion after this.

Speaking of Matt Ryan very quickly, I forgot to bring this up before. A player that was not playing in the late game or in the early games today texted me this and I will never be able to unsee it. Matt Glennon has the exact same quarterback mannerisms as Matt Ryan. Oh, okay. His throwing motion, the way he moves around, I promise you, you will never be able to watch it and not think that again. It's the exaggerated legs. That's it. I was watching it and I was like, oh,

Oh my God. It's the same. Because I just popped, they both popped in my head. And I was just kind of like, oh, yeah, now I'm not going to be able to. You will never ever be able to watch it. You'd be like, that is giraffe, Matt Ryan. That is what you will think every single time you ever watch Mike, or Mike Glennon for the rest of your life.

That's the Patrick Mahomes scrambling. That's just a miscadish joke that it looks like he's carrying a can of beer while he scrambles. It's one of those things now. Anytime you watch my home's around with the ball, you're like, oh my God, that looks like a 12 ounce blood light in his hand. Like, that's exactly what it looks like. Congratulations for the rest of Matt Ryan's career. You'll be watching short Mike Glennon,

which is going to be amazing for you. So speaking of Mike Glennon, the Jaguars fired Dave Caldwell today. The second GM firing of the weekend. The Lions also fired their general manager. They fired Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia on Saturday. You and I were talking a little bit about this, and I know it's not tied to Sunday's games,

but I still thought it was relevant and interesting. I don't want to make it a comparison. But if you were looking at the situation, the Lions are in. Do you think it's the deepest hole for any new GM to dig out of next year when compared to all of the other jobs that might come open? Yes. I do.

What makes you say that? I think just how all in they went and what Patriots West or Patriots Midwest have carte blanche there and just they went all in on that style. And it's a very specific type of style that might be, you know, archaic at this point in 2020 football or even 2021 football. I just think other than Stafford, you got a ton of question marks across that entire team. You might be losing Goladay. It's not like you have an O-line guys that you can really build around.

Defensively, they're built for a specific look. And even a guy that they took in the first round this year, Akuta, who I was really high on, looks like he's playing slow and just like, I mean, he had a game earlier this year against the Cardinals where he looked legit against DeAndre Hopkins and had some really nice plays. It had a nice pick where he undercut one. And ever since then, it's just last week I saw him and it's he totally airballs like a press technique. And it looks like he's just a second late on the snap. So obviously his head's spinning. He's too good of a player to be like playing like that.

So it's they got some stank on them. So, but I just mean just the entire roster is just built for a specific way that it's not very, it doesn't give you a lot of ways to pivot. It's not like you, as someone went into the Jaguars defense after the Bradley years and they're just like, oh, well, I mean, Not a lot of good has come from that. But we say some bendy athletes and some guys that you can kind of work with. Lions don't. Lions have Stafford and not much else on that team. DeAndre Swift's nice.

But, you know, Kenny Gallad is a great player, but he's a free agent after this year. Their entire free, the entire receiving corps is free agents after this year. Marvin Jones is gone. Danny Mandela was gone. Even Marvin Hall is gone. So they still have Quintas. Quintas, Cephas. Go badgers.

It was so funny to me. I am I on him. I made a joke yesterday about them needing all their receivers being free agents. And someone was like, this is Quintus Cephas Erasure. And I was like, yeah, this is my point. He's the only NFL receiver left on their roster. And then you look at the rest of us, man. I'm a big fan of his.

I'm sure you are. But so their offensive line, I think, is intact. And that group, I think, is solid. But they need all new playmakers. And on defense, these contracts are signed. I mean, they let them hand out a lot of money. I mean, Trey Flowers is a good player, but he's not a $20 million player, which is that move was a mistake from the start. Even if you like Trey Flowers, it's the exact type of move the Patriots wouldn't make if you're trying to build a team like the Patriots.

When you have a lot of guys who aren't great rushers, you don't pay them anything. That's how you build your team. Those are the guys you churned. Yes. It's just, and that is, there were so many just misguided lessons. And the way that they've built this, I mean, paying the linebackers as much as they did, you watch that game. against Houston, they're just eating Jamie Collins in coverage. I mean, just play after play getting him in space, but that's how they built this team.

There's evidence of Jamie Collins turning into a pumpkin outside of Foxborough. There's already evidence of him not being able to produce outside of Foxborough, and they still did it. Even when he was playing well in New England, he wasn't manned up on linebackers. No, manned up on running backs in space the way he was against Duke Johnson on Thursday. And I talked to a GM last week that said it was the slowest defense he's ever seen. And when you're trying to play that way, you just can't be that. There's no way you're going to be able to play that much man coverage when you don't have athletes and match up with teams.

It's just not going to work. And they are tied into this style. And it's all of this stuff is overstated. You can get out of any hole financially and essentially two years in the NFL. But they are really deep in it with certain types of. guys and not that many youngest sending players on the team. I would argue that the,

and especially if they trade Stafford, they have assets. I mean, they could potentially have a top 10 pick if they wanted to draft a quarterback. I would argue that the Bears may be in a worse situation because they're tied into a lot of players on their team as well

on defense and they've signed a lot of contracts and they don't have a quarterback. They don't have a quarterback you could trade for a first round pick and they may not be in position to draft a quarterback. So I think you could argue that of all the GM jobs that could come open, the Bears might be the worst one. But I think that the lions are right in line.

God, you're just stabbing yourself some more, huh? Listen, I'm just trying to be realistic, man. I don't think that's an, I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. You just heard NFC North terrible and you're just like,

oh, I just need to punch myself one more time in the nuts. But if you're thinking about the jobs that could come open and these are the comparisons we're making, I think the bear's job is probably worse. And that's like ownership aside resources, all of that stuff. I'm just talking about the actual roster and what it looks like and what you're playing with in terms of the players in the building. That's all I'm considering.

On that level, I think the bear's job is probably worse than the lion's job if it were to come open. All right, before we get out of here, I want to turn a new segment today because there are a lot of games that happen in the NFL every single week that aren't great and aren't bad. And putting it in those two buckets It doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room So we're going to call this the swing set That was swinging man Swinging? Swinging? That's good right? Swinging's good.

It's a set of plays That swung the outcome of a game And I think that my favorite example of this today Was the Carolina Minnesota game You watched that game It seemed like the Vikings were dead in the water The Panthers were going to walk to a win And we were just going to be sitting there being

Well, we should have gotten excited about the Vikings Instead, the Vikings win this game are now five and six and very much in the hunt for a wild card spot in the NFC. When you were looking at that fourth quarter and that home stretch of that game, what few kind of moments jumped out to you that sealed it for Minnesota? The huge one was Panthers were on offense and Vikings on defense and it was third and ten, about 12 minutes left in the fourth quarter. Panthers are an empty. They run a four-verts type concept with a crosser. you'll see the saints do it all the time. And with it,

and at the slot, they run a read route. Usually, typically you'll see it a lot on third downs. It's the Antonio Gates special, but just think of it with a receiver in the slot doing it. 10 to 12 yards, you'll see Colby usually do it all the time.

And that's where the Panthers are creating a little bit of a high low. They have an over, they have a crosser, and they have a read route. They kind of were figuring that we're either getting pressure from the Vikings or something soft. Because Vikings kept doing it. They kept bringing these mugged up pressures,

which is the Mike Zimmer special. two linebackers in the A gaps. They love doing it, and then they'll run everything out of it. Every type of pressure you can think of and every type of coverage you can think of. They just love that look because it does put strain on an offense. And actually, earlier in the game, the Panthers gashed them versus one of those pressures, the Robbie Anderson Crosser that he got caught in Ron. Yep, against a little fire zone.

They caught. It just happens. Yep. They caught them. Just one of those great plays, called it at the right time. And so on this 3rd 10, ball ends up at the crosser. And after they showed his blitz, the Vikings ran out to a cover two to Tampa. The quarterback Jones, number 26 Jones, who I don't know much about actually, did a great job of sinking on this play.

Then he comes off and he makes the tackle on the crosser. Really the great play on this is Eric Kendrick does an awesome job. He sinks underneath the reader out by the slot. And then he just shoots off it and comes and rallies on the tackle on the crosser. And thank God he did because he stopped him short. And it leads to a field goal from the Panthers. And that's what made it so that they end up winning the game is because if they get that first down, they go down either more clock off because we just saw how many seconds or how valuable these seconds were in these games.

And also they were able to hold them to a field goal. Just a great play that really showed like how in tune this defense is getting. It's like they're getting better and better with these guys. And on the flip side, on that same type of play, if you want to see how that place should look is Cousins hits in the two minute drive, hits the same route, that same read route to the slot. to Beebe, and Panthers wanted to hit it, but this time the Vikings did hit it in a two-minute situation. It was third and long for the Panthers.

But that was just a play. It really changed the momentum. It held them to a field goal. Okay, Vikings got off the field. They were able to reset themselves, and then really something came from that and really set their little comeback that happened in the fourth quarter. And there are a lot of small moments.

I mean, obviously, if Bridgewater hits more in the end zone, the game is probably over. He misses him. But the Vikings put themselves in positions consistently. to be in this game. I thought that Eric Wilson made several really nice plays in space. Really fun player. I was very impressed by him today.

He had a couple of really nice plays. I mean, just good few in coverage. He had a tackle for loss. I don't think he actually dragged the guy down, but he hit Mike Davis like three yards deep in the backfield of force his second and 13. They incomplete screen on the next play, and they get the ball back.

So he had a couple really nice moments. And Justin Jefferson was fantastic down the stretch. I mean, the whip, on the touchdown is just, I mean, that guy has a really good feel for that kind of stuff. And though he had a deep crosser that Cousins hit to him. Cousins also came up huge on a couple of these plays. But I mean, just scattered plays here and there. I mean, they did what they needed to do to win. And I think that I'm very impressed with them being able to do that offensively with Bibi and Jefferson and No Thielen in the fourth quarter of that game. And Bibi also had a

couple really nice moments. And it was funny because on the touchdown to BB, they had Jefferson at the number two spot in empty and Jefferson held the free safety in the middle of the field. And so it's essentially BB one on one and Cousins makes a great decision. It's really funny that Jefferson already at this point in his career has that sort of gravity and he should. That's how well he's playing. He deserves that sort of respect. He has such a great, great feel. At LSU he works so much from the inside and that's one of the reasons I really loved them was because he had size and speed and he could tell you smart because you just go to the right guy in the blocking in the run game and stuff. And it's just cool seeing him operate from the outside now and just he's like a monster.

I mean, that whip route is great. The designer that was awesome. They ran like a hip close. They made it look like a toss play that, you know, hip close is basically bunch and fake the toss, ran a waggle. He runs a whip route like he is coming on the backside trying to block the safety. And that corner had no chance because you have to go full speed with a guy that runs a legit four, four and change. And at size, you see him after he can. Well, it's just like it spoke everything about it. The route, the cell of the route, the route itself, the whip route, being able to stop going that full speed. Then the adjustment on the catch, because it wasn't exactly a perfect throw.

And then he runs through contact to score. It was like, oh, my God. Like my comparison for him in the pre-draft was Robert Woods, kind of like maybe a little better version of Robert Woods. It really should have been more like Godwin. And, you know, like he is, he's bigger. He's like, big. Yeah, he's got. Yeah.

He's got that build that it's like, oh, he's a, he's a power slot, but he can work from the outside as well. It's, yeah, he's coming. I'm so glad because I was really high. And I'm coming into the draft. So I was like, yeah, good. Yeah, I was right. Yeah. Totally.

Way to go, Justin Jefferson. But it's, it's all those, even the two point play was great, the little RPO. They motioned a bunch. They ran just like a little zone with it. And then they ran a pick play on the outside. And you could tell the whole. It was the same kind of deal. I mean, there was.

Yeah. It was Johnson working in then back out. It was they pretty much did the exact same kind. I mean, the pick certainly helped, but it was the same kind of thought as the Jefferson touchdown. Attack in the same way. And they kind of packaged that play.

It was because it just had a run play. So I'm guessing if it was a goal line zone variation that they would hand the ball off. But since they got man or pressure, they're like, okay, we're going to throw the pick route on the outside. And it worked perfect because the corner that was guarding them, like just went underneath and it was just dead in the water.

Cousins made it kind of a funky throw, just tapping it over. but it was perfect. Just it was good stuff all around from all of them. I mean, like you said, the last touchdown was an easy pitch and catch. No help on the inside. It's just good design. Even in the two minute drill, when you can see cousins kind of have to operate without, you know, design play calls or maybe just more standardized play calls.

He's finding the right guys. I mean, Rudolph is wide open on the one. Anyone could have found him because the, well, that was the three man rush. Yeah, three man rush with the two wide open guys. With a minute left. in the game in that situation, bringing a three-man rush is completely unacceptable. It's completely unacceptable.

And as soon as it was happening, I was like, well, that's a terrible idea. And he just sat back there with a three-man rush, two of the guys eventually got to the ground, and no one was open. And Rudolph eventually,

Rudolph had given up on the play and then just kind of drifted back a little bit and cousins found him for a 25-yard gain. And it was, that's the reason they won the game. Yep, because they put him right down the thing. And it was, oh, I know, it just, it was fun watching the offense today that just watching

that entire thing come together. They were using the fullback in great ways to, you know, lead draw. Yeah, yeah, lead draw was great. They run lead draw better than anyone because they can because they run out. They run out so much I formation. But it's so fun seeing old school eye formation lead draw. And they hit it, they hit it like twice a game. I didn't know too.

The CJ Ham had like his own little, I know most players and stuff have a little sound clip that plays when they have a good play. When they designed that play for CJ Hamm, they had a noise that was, it was unique. So Vikings fans like tweet at me, whatever, just what exactly played when CJ Ham got that play that they designed

for them? Because that was, it was weird. It was like a, like a, I was like a guttural noise or something yelling. Like it was something, it was unique. It was like, it was fullback noise. It was what you expected a CJ Ham fullback like sound clip to play at a stadium. Like that's what played.

So that like a, It was a cool play design too, but like the little sound clip after I was like, oh, what was that? It's a huge win for them because now they're a game back of Arizona in the wildcard race. I mean, the bears are definitely trending in the wrong direction. So at this point, the Rams are 7 and 4. They're in a really good spot even after losing today. Seahawks, same kind of deal. Even if they lose, they're at 7 and 4.

But the Cardinals are 6 and 5. The Vikings are 5 and 6. The Niners are 5 and 6. I mean, a couple, I mean, the Cardinals are not playing great. Their offense, as we said, it continues to look disjointed. The Vikings defense has been so much better than it was earlier in the season. This is now one of the best defenses in the NFL. I mean, you can consider how bad their start was.

They're sitting at 10th in weighted DVOA defensively. I mean, they eventually got it together with the younger guys. And they still, I mean, even without the talent up front, they've managed to put it together. And I think the offense isn't great, but it's good enough. I absolutely in that group think they have a shot to steal that last wildcard spot. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they ended up doing it. They're playing good football. And it's the time to play good football.

We're in the second half of the year. And it's, you know, playoffs are bearing down. But it's they're coming, they're coming quicker than you think. So Vikings keep doing it. They keep winning these games and they look pretty good doing it. They had one ugly loss, you know, recently. But other than that, they play, they keep stacking these wins. and it's been fun to watch.

All right, guys, that's all we got today. Thank you so much for listening. Please rate and review the show on your podcast platform of choice. I would very much appreciate it. Please subscribe to The Athletic. Our Black Friday sale is still going until Monday, I believe. It is a dollar a month for a year. That is an incredible deal.

You will not think twice about it. I promise you won't regret it. The amount of stuff we have on the site, especially late last week, was excellent. It's consistently great. So please sign up. I promise you, you will be happy that you did. We will be back on Wednesday.

We have a fun show for you guys this week. I'm really looking forward to it. Until then, though, thank you so much for listening to The Athletic Football Show. We'll talk to you later. This was The Athletic Football Show.