The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Updated playoff picture, Lions finally win, Cardinals' defense flying, Gronk defying logic & more with Nate Tice

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

As week 13 nears an end, it's time to take a step back and look at the AFC playoff picture in the context of Sunday's results as the Colts keep on winning, the Chargers blow out the Bengals, and the Las Vegas Raiders and Baltimore Ravens might be done + Rob Gronkowski keeps defying logic with how he's playing in Tampa Bay, an early Hall of Fame campaign speech for Andrew Whitworth, the Niners fall to a poor Seahawks team, the Vikings hand the Lions their first win under Dan Campbell and more with Robert Mays and Nate Tice. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. It's the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tice. Nate, how you doing, buddy? Doing great. My very first NFL game where I was not affiliated with the team, either me or my dad.

And it was how to go for you. Weird. Very weird. I also, man, I'm just going to sound just like a spool of crap, but it's like I'm bored in the stands. Like, it's like when I'm not in the same thing. I haven't been to a. game as a fan in years. It's weird. It really is. The stadium, though, in Vegas here is absolutely gorgeous. And I get the added benefit. I get to go back in a couple weeks because Wisconsin is in the

Vegas Bowl. What a break for you. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And one of my best friends here is a slightly different energy when you don't have to do a podcast in a few hours and Wisconsin is playing with your buddies there while they're in Vegas. I assume it's going to be a different sort of thing. Yeah, it might be. I might have a different energy that day. We'll say that. And I think I have to get used to maybe having a Miller light or two on that day. It's funny too, one of my best friends here, he's in Arizona State alum, and that's who they're playing. So it's like, what like the cosmic ballet? Like it just like it lined up perfectly for this game.

I'm like, I can't believe it. Merry Christmas to me. So we're going to start off the show today. We're going to spend the first 15 talking about the AFC playoff picture. As soon as we get to really December after Thanksgiving, I feel like I have a tab open to the playoff tiebreaker. or the playoff picture site at every moment. Like it's always there. Even as I close everything else out,

I keep that because I know I'm going to need it. And it's been such a crazy year with all the parody. It feels like we need to do this all the time. But I wanted to do it today because there were a couple games that really shook things up, none more so than Chargers Bengals. I think when we were coming into this week, obviously the game tomorrow night, I'm so excited about it. I'm really, really looking forward to watching it.

But other than that, this game really, felt like it had the most implications on what the playoff picture would look like. Not only so we could get a sense of these two teams next to each other, but this tiebreaker was going to be huge. And with some of the other dominoes that could fall, so the Chargers beat the Bengals 41 to 22, a game whose score is really meaningless when you look at all of the crazy stuff that happened over the course of that three hours. So I came away from this game in a place where I was happy about some of the things the Chargers

did. I was excited about some of the things the Chargers did, but I don't feel any worse about the Bengals, just some of the bad breaks that they got. But again, at this point, it doesn't really matter how you're winning and losing these games because what happens and what ends up in the W or L column, that's all we care about as we see all of these stands and standings and everything else shifting in every single moment. It's the only stat that matters. It's the wind column. Or for the Steelers, that tie column, because that might give a little half bump. But that game, it was I've made a joke before where some of these games are like loser leave town matches. Yeah.

You know, but this didn't really feel like that. This was more like a, you know, wrestling they call a blowoff match. Like it was just like, okay, it was just haymakers and all that. It was like you said, it was a funky game. Even rewatch it. I watched it live. I, they have a pretty cool tailgate situation here in Vegas where it's like it's a big part. Of course it's Vegas, but like a big parking lot and they have all the TVs up there.

So I got to actually watch the games in kind of the same way I do in my office on a usual Sunday. And watching that game, it was just kind of like, okay, the Chargers jumped out to the lead. But the Bengals still did fine stuff. And they did what they did. Like their run game was decent. Like they still had the under center stuff. T. Higgins was a monster. Yeah.

They still, you know, they're still able to get to what they want to get to and have matchup advantages. Tyler Boyd had good plays, all that stuff. So it wasn't where I was like, Bengals got figured out. They're done, man. But it's like the defense even came up with the big plays, you know, at times, we let them get back into the game. And of course, like you said, the final score is not indicative.

It was like, it's very weird. The beginning and the end of the game seems like a blowout. But really, if you, what, the middle, what, 35 minutes was like, oh, no, this was a, you know, they were trading blows. But honestly, Chargers got a little better execution. We've got, I've had quite the roller coaster feelings about the Chargers offense in the last six or seven days. And this was more like, okay, this is when things break right. This is when they actually execute. This is when they win those 50, 50 balls.

When the coin flips go. their way. And then they still have that guy, Justin Herbert, who is going to, no matter what, keep them in every game, even if when stuff kind of goes fluky away from them. And on the flip side, no, the Bengals just are what they are. They have a solid offense. They found the wrong game a little bit. And their defense is heady. And they make plays at the right time. They bring the right pressure. So like you said, it's like, I don't really feel different about either team. I actually feel better about both teams in a way. I kind of feel the same way. And if you look at what the Chargers did today, the tweak in the game plan was what we'd been waiting for. Right. All we

one who was thumb to open up the throttle a little bit on early downs. Justin Herbert 10.7 average depth of target today, which is just, ah, it's beautiful. I love it so much. On play action in this game, are you ready? Yeah, I love it. 12 of 16 for 221 yards and two touchdowns. That's the BFG offense, the big effing gun. It was phenomenal. And a couple of plays that stand out, obviously, I mean, the Mike Williams 50-50 balls that he came down with today, give him a shot. Like, give that guy a shot. There's no reason not to. That's what he is. That's what he does. And then the touchdown to Guyton, I saw some people talking about how it was underthrown. Let's, let's have discourse. Okay. Yeah. It wasn't it like 68 yards across the field? Yes. It was a 70 yard throw from one

number. He was on the right numbers. He threw it to the left numbers and it traveled 56 yards in the air. If you do the quick math, it was embarrassing how long it took me to figure out how much space was between the numbers. A squared plus B squared, equals C squared. I know. I know what the Pythagorean theorem is, but I couldn't figure out what B was. I knew A, because I could see the distance that it traveled, but the distance between the numbers took me a long time to figure it out. I don't want to admit how long. But when you ultimately do the math, it's like a 68-yard throw. It's okay to under-

That never leaves the screen. Yes. It's okay to underthrow that one by a little bit. The one that got intercepted on the deep ball of Palmer, he did underthrow that a bit. It's still a 50-yard throw. If you're underthrowing 50-yard balls, that's going to happen every once in a while. It was nice to see him open it up a little bit. I will say that the areas of weakness for these teams was pass protection.

I mean, it was just a sack fest in this game, which shouldn't be surprising. We know that the Chargers' offensive line has issues. It's going to continue to have issues. The Bengals had two starting offensive line men out. So you think, ah, well, they struggled to protect. They were missing their right tackle in their center. Guess what? They weren't missing those guys the whole season.

You're going to have offensive line injuries in the NFL. are not deep on the offensive line. It's Isaiah Prince, and I think Tray Hill was their backup center, and their right guard is still a revolving door and has been the entire season. I commend you from knowing their names. Listen, I'm a professional. That's going to happen. So I'm sure Bengals fans, like, well, they backup linemen, and that's why they gave up

six sacks, I believe. Well, yeah, you're going to play with backup Wyman in the NFL. That's going to be something you have to face over the course of the season. So I think both of these teams are going to have issues potentially with protecting against the really, really good teams in the NFL. But there are missteps today. I mean, Jamar Chase dropped the touchdown. Austin Ackler had two fumbles.

I think for the most part, the quarterbacks played very well, and you're just excited about what they're going to be, not only over the next five weeks, but over the next five years. And that's kind of how I felt coming away from this game. But now, again, you just look at the results. The Chargers are in the driver's seat now. I mean, they have the tiebreaker over the Spengel's team,

and it feels like both of these teams have a really good shot to make the playoffs. But the fact that the Chargers now have that one game league, on Cincinnati is going to be huge as we keep going. So sticking in the NFC, in the AFC North, I want to talk about the Ravens in the context of this game, though. Are the Ravens good? I don't know, man. No, they're not good. I don't think the Ravens are good.

I don't know if they're bad, but I don't think the Ravens are a good football team right now. They're just like what consists of what do they do well? Nothing like Lamar run the ball. That's it. And then now, yeah, Lamar do stuff. And now, yeah, Lamar do stuff. and that's what this entire offense feels like.

It's devolved to. It's like they're watching this passing game. I'm just tired of making excuses for the passing attack. Oh, they're reading routes or all this stuff. No, it's bad, man. It's like what they're doing. They're running the routes where two guys are near each other. There's sloppiness.

They'll they, they, we, I talk all the time. I love, I love offensive concepts. You want to create high lows or or horizontal stretch. When you have two guys and if you're running a horizontal type route like a stick or anything kind of quick gamey. All right, so you can't get a horizontal stretch if two guys are near each other. And then you can't create vertical stretch with a high low if you have no low. If you're just relying on Lamar being the permanent checkdown, that's not a real offense. That is just, that's just throwing your hands up and going, hey, go make a play for us.

Hey, good job. And patting yourself on the back for getting a first down because the quarterback scrambles for it. And it's just, it's, it's, it felt like today, the Steelers, you know, it's a divisional matchup. So, of course, they're going to know this kind of type of stuff. They were just really dropping on all their coverages. I mean, just like deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, get depth, depth, they're like, you're not going over the top with us and you're not getting those intermediate throws either. And this is where the lack of checkdown in that entire Ravens offense.

And this is the thing is it, is it because Lamar doesn't want to throw them or they just don't design them. Because it looks like a lot of times they lock the running back in and they have nothing. They'll have four routes at 15 or more. And then there's nothing underneath. And then there's Lamar bouncing, bounce and bounce. And then he goes, does something. And that's why it's just like they don't give themselves layups. It's just why are you making it so hard on?

yourself and it's if if you want to say oh lamar doesn't want to take the checkdowns he just wants to scramble well guess what force them like you can that's coaching that is getting your best out of your players because they need it they they just can't it's not sustainable it just isn't it's just you're adding up hits you're not taking the layups when you can you're just shooting a whole bunch of mid-range jumpers that's what their offense is it's a bunch of mid-range jumpers and and that's not a way to do it in the modern NFL you just can't do it that way you either go explosive or just it's touchdown the checkdown it's not touchdown to touchdown. It's just, it's not sustainable. Or touchdown to intermediate throw in a pile of people.

With three of your receivers, two yards apart from each other. And also like on the last, someone else brought it up. I'm sorry if I'm not credit them, but they noticed that Roshad Bateman wasn't in on the entire last drive. And yes, the drive ended up okay. They scored a touchdown. They didn't get to two point. But that's results instead of process. You're saying, and I know I'm a Rashad Bateman fan. We both are. But the fact is, do you think he's not better than Devin Doverney? Like, and I like, I like him. Like it's a nice role player, but he's up number four, number five. Why won't you have one of your better players who's actually a playmaker for you on any of those plays, much less, okay, I get it, maybe not the touchdown, but it's like none of the place for an entire drive.

That's just, that's a lack of process. And that's what the whole offense seems like it has is like a process. Real quick, Chargers defense, by the way, they didn't bring. I know we're talking about the Ravens and everything. I just want to bring this up. It is with the Chargers. It felt like today they brought different pressures, not the track war. Blitz is what they added on were really not.

They were doing something different. I'm really excited to watch that game back because they caught them with some stuff that even I haven't seen the Chargers bring in the games I've checked out for their defense. So I'm like, I'm really excited. It's like, ooh, oh, okay. Okay, you threw it. Okay, you got a new little pitch in there. You know, so I'm curious to check out that defense. But back to the back to the bad stuff.

Raven's office. The one other thing I want to say about that game, the touchdown to Keenan Allen on the RPO. It was beautiful. Speaking of throwing new stuff in there, having that little jet motion RPO. and having him come behind it. I was like, ooh, that's nice in the red zone. I like that a lot. The arm strength showed up a couple different times with Herbert in the red zone today.

Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Maybe it's important to have that. The game you were at, another team that kind of seemingly was in the AFC playoff race. This loss today, I think, puts the Raiders in a really tough spot, right? Yeah. They were already in a tough spot when you look at the standings now that they're six and six. The rest of the way, four of their last five games come against the Chiefs, the Browns, the Colts and the Chargers.

Oh, boy. Feels like this is probably it for the Raiders. Yeah, I mean, it was always going to be a tough road, tough sledding for the Raiders at this point. I'm not sure they're going to get in. So it's hard. I know that it was not a, it was not a very exciting game. I'll tell you that much. Maybe that's why I got.

At least the stadium was nice. Stadium was great. Great views. Love it. Oh, Rev Run was the halftime entertainment. Wow. Yeah, he's saying about an eighth of his words. It was a lot of, uh, stand up.

He actually said, sing the words. And it was like, dude, that's the easiest 50 grand. ever seen someone make. Oh, God, 50 grand. I hope it's not that much. All right. We know what the AFC playoff picture. We know what the standings say.

I want to know what our hearts say as things currently stand right now, right? So Tennessee is the two seed. Baltimore's the three seed. I don't know how good either of those teams are. The fact that they're locked into those spots, for the most part, now with the Bengals losing today, even with the Ravens loss, they're still atop the AFC North. Both of those teams, I feel like have taken significant steps back. So if you're looking at it, kind of standings and seating be damned, I think in some order, the best teams in the AFC are the paths, the bills, and the chiefs.

And then I think that there's a small drop off. And then I think the team after that that I feel the best about is not currently in the playoffs. And that's the Colts. Yes. I'm glad you said that because I feel the exact same way. And they're the nine seed right now. That's how this year is. they are such a perfect example of

I'm not going to say they don't care about the first four weeks of the season they truly believe the first four weeks of the season are an extension of the preseason and when you consider some of the things they've had to deal with over the last few years makes sense right they've had a different starting quarterback each of the last four seasons including one this year who did not play during training camp he didn't practice until the first week of the season so it would make sense that they kind of are settling into some of the things that they're doing on defense they mix up their coverages every single year they try to add little tiny wrinkles they play they're playing a ton more

cover six this year compared to what they've done in years past and you think about some of the just real real busts they had in that Seattle game early in the rams game in that exact coverage guys like rogers they're really young corner he's coming on it's settling for them and I kind of want to see them make it like I'd love to see them be one of those teams just because I think that they have the best shot to really give one of those top three teams a real run if we get there. Like I truly believe they're the third best team or the fourth best team. And I think you could make an argument that they're right there with everybody else. Yeah, they're fighting for a podium. Like, and we we've talked about in the NFC picture how it's like,

oh, the best version of the playoffs would have the 49ers in it. AFC, the best version of playoffs would have the Colts in it. Yeah. Because it's like, because not only it's not like, oh, they deserve and, you know, just to make the playoffs good for you. It's like, no, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, could win a game or two. Like, they can, like, they can, they can throw fish. Especially this year. Yep. Especially this year.

If you had told me before the season that the Colts could really make a run in the AFC playoffs, be like, I don't know. Not yet. Not yet. Like, they just, there are too many questions. Like, we'll see how the first year of Wentz goes. But it's this weird season where I kind of feel like, why can't they play with anybody?

Their defense is 12th in DVOA right now. Their offense is in the top 10. And they, it feels that way. Like when you, I know they play the Texans today, but I'm talking about last week. When they played against the box. When they lost, it still was an impressive performance. When you watch them right now, they feel like that sort of team.

So, I mean, I don't know if it's going to be tough for them, too. They play the Pats after they're by, and then they play the Cardinals on Christmas Day. It's not going to be an easy road for them either. But right now, that's kind of how I feel about it. I think the Pats, Bills, Chiefs, Colts, Chargers, Bengals are those teams are like the ones that I would like to see in the postseason. Yeah, it's, we, a few weeks ago, we kind of were like, hey, the Patriots are, you know, they're on the upswing. And then that's how the Colts feel.

They feel that same way just a month later. Like where they're like, okay, we figured out what our identity is. And I love what you're talking about the coverages too, because that's just what they're well coached on both sides of the ball. And it's because they understand their personnel. They, it is so cool seeing as staff, not just offensive coaches. It's both sides of the ball, just understanding what they are. And it's like, okay, we can't do this. So we have to do this.

We have, we can't do X. Maybe we can use X a little bit. sprinkled more Y, what sprinkled more Z and like, but watching on a defense and then I am in, they're built up front and they have smart athletic players and guys coming on and like, you know, the young players are like coming on. Like we, we think of rookies on up swing, but also it's like second year players go through upswings too. And it's just that's what this whole team is.

It's a young team. They kind of do this stuff and they're getting healthier. Like even a guy like Quentin Nelson who is a, you know, bonafide star. He's been banged up too. And it's like, oh my God. now he's a plus player again. Like now that's still on the upswing. Like he's still coming back from injury.

The one thing that I was talking to somebody there this week and they said that one of the things that Reich does as well as anybody is just figure out what they're good at. You think about that Philly team is another good example when he was there. And just the last couple years, they've gotten so much better over the course of the season when they've been like, all right, this is what we do well on offense. We're spamming the button. We're just going to do this more. And they do such a good job of pairing that stuff down. and understanding that the first four to six weeks of the season are a feeling out process, especially when you have a new quarterback.

And especially when you have an extra week now. Like that's like you give yourself that little extra buffer. I think the smart teams realize that. It's like, hey, maybe a guy's banged up. It's like, okay, don't rush them back. We got an extra week to catch up. And I think the best way I can put it is that they're really good at cutting fat out. They understand.

Yes. They understand that trim it up and make it a fillet. And that's what they do really, really well. So you're looking at it right now. The Bengals are the seven seat. So the Chargers bangles. and Colts probably couldn't make the playoffs all of them, unless the Colts somehow catch the Titans.

That wouldn't be shocking. The Titans schedule for the rest of the way is pretty easy. They play the Jags. They have a game against the Steelers, the Niners, the Dolphins, and the Texans. The Dolphins are playing much better. We haven't even mentioned them here yet, but they're theoretically still in the hunt. It's going to be even though it's going to be tough for them. They're five and seven.

There's so many teams with five or six losses. And then you look at the Bengals, they have the Niners, the Broncos, the Ravens, the Chiefs, and the Browns. That's not an easy road. So I feel like it's probably more realistic for the Colts to catch Cincinnati in the AFC race than it is to catch the Titans. The Chargers have the Giants, the Chasons, the Broncos, and the Raiders. The Bengals have a harder road the rest of the way than the Chargers do, and they do not have the tiebreaker over the Chargers. So we'll see how it goes.

Man, 49ers are like a catalyst team there for a lot of these teams too. I know. Just the swing indoors moments that are going to include the 49ers, including today, which we'll absolutely get to. But for right now, let's get to you have my attention. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention. All right.

During an NFL Sunday, there's so much stuff going on. And each week we try to pick out a couple things that made us sit up and take notice. And I wanted to talk about a unit that we rarely talk about, that rarely gets much attention. And that's why I wanted to spend some time on them today. And that's the Cardinals defense. I know that the Cardinals defense played against the Bears today, okay? I watched it. I'm very aware that that's what happened.

It just in a disgusting, sideways rain, 35-degree day. I would so much rather have it be 20 in snowing than what it was today outside. And just Cliff Kingsbury is wearing a hat. You can tell he's just miserable. He's got a beard. He looks like he aged 20 years over the course of that game. You did, didn't he? Oh, my God.

I know. I know. He did. He was, yeah, he looked ragged. Sorry. So I know that we don't give them a ton of credit for what they did against a Chicago team today. But you know after today the Arizona Cardinals are number one in the NFL and drop back EPA per play? Number one, they are the most efficient defense in football against the pass in the year 2021 when that's pretty important.

Yes. With those corners. Yes. So I want to talk about this. Yeah. Okay. So if we look at it. we talk about Cliff and Collar so much, so much. And we should. Like, it's exciting. That partnership is

fascinating. What they'll do together will define them both in a lot of ways. I was in Arizona a few weeks ago. And Cliff was saying that. He's like, we will always be tied at the hip. Like, I understand that. And they were talking about, he's talking about their relationship. And he described them as a director and an actor. Like, there's feedback back and forth, which I think is a really cool way to think about a partnership. That's a great comparison. Anyway, I was there to talk about and write about the defense. I spent a few days with Lance Joseph and some of the guys on the defense. And I wanted to talk about a few of the things that

I learned that story is going to come out a little bit later this week. And I think that what you talk about with the corners is so interesting. Because last year, they came into the season and they lost Robert Alford on the eve of the year. They brought in Drake or Patrick on August 23rd. And then on October

I think 18th, Chandler Jones went out for the year. So you have a corner off the street. That's a day one starter for you and you lose your best pass rush. And we talked about it last season. It was all blitzing and man. That's what they did.

Because they had to. They didn't have corners that they trusted to do much else, and they didn't have a number one pass rusher they had to manufacture pressure. And they were a top 10 defense last year. With all of these guys that we didn't trust and all this man coverage,

they were still a top 10 defense. Coming into this year, everything is more varied. If you look at it, coming into this game, they had played more snaps of cover two this season than they played all of last season. They were 30,

first in EPA per play in cover two last year. They're sixth this year. And they've credited the amount of zone coverage they're playing with the amount of turnovers that they're creating. Their thought is more eyes on the ball, more picks, more tips, more overthrows. And that's exactly what happened today. And I think that's why they're doing such a good job of kind of hiding some of these corners in some of these more zone coverages that they're playing because they were so man-heavy last year and they're playing so many more things this year. And to me, this is kind of what I wrote about in the story that will come out in a couple of days. This is a study in what time does for you.

When you have all of these guys that have played on the defense together for three years, Jordan Hicks, Boot Baker, Byron Murphy has been there for a couple years, Jalen Thompson, who I want to talk about in a second. All of these guys, they know each other in and out now. What Vance Joseph said to me,

I thought was so, so interesting. He said, year three is when your guys can solve their own problems. and in practice now, when something comes up or like this rule was broken by this, he'll just leave them to their own devices. Like, they'll figure it out. And if for some reason it's not sound within the scheme, then him or one of the assistants will be like, all right, we have to tweak this a little bit. But the guys can solve their problems now.

And that's what Buddha was telling me. He's like, I'll be with Tanner and there would be a certain situation where they'll have somebody coming vertical into the flat. And I'm supposed to take the route coming vertical. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. I'll take the flat. You do this. And that is when you finally see it ascend. And the reason I'm spending all this time on this and want to talk about it, it's not like they're pretty good.

This is how they've made the best past defense in football. I don't know if it will continue to be that way. But that is how they've started to build the foundation of what is one of the best units in the entire league on a team that has the number one seed in the NFC. Yeah. And like we just keep, like it's unbelievable. Like you said, it's like we think this is this offensive juggers. not and all this, but it's their own version of the desert swarm. That's what they're doing.

And when players take ownership, they, it takes things to a whole new level. I've been an experience. My personal experience is Rodney Hudson and Derek Carr coming up with protection stuff. It's, hey, we as coaches might have our rules how we see it, but you're the players play. Yes. Like players are within the lines. They are the ones doing it. Players play, coaches coach.

And that's something Paul Chris would always say. He's like, I can only do so much. You guys got, hey, make a mistake, make a mistake fast. You figure out your own rules sometimes. And then when they, and players have that ownership of it, then they want to do it right because then it's pure pressure. Yeah. There's a standard that gets set. You create a culture.

You create, and what they said and what Vance Joseph says to me was you create a culture of problem solving. And when you can create a culture of problem solving, you create a culture of defense. And that is really cool to watch. It's cool to see this team that we define. by their offensive players and their offensive stars, even their offensive head coach, be this good on defense. And to see a guy like Jalen Thompson,

who I think is such a fascinating part of all of this, he was a fifth round supplemental pick in 2019. He showed up, and he has become what they call the best communicator on their defense. And we've talked about that on this show, how well he communicates. It was in the Rams game. And I got there and I said,

oh, I've noticed how well he communicates. And Vance just cracks this huge smile. And he's like, he's the best communicator on the entire team. defense. And to see all of these kind of quieter pieces step up and to see Buda Baker like ascending into like a true true star. Because when they got there, he was his

box safety. Remember when he got that contract? It was a lot of money for a box safety. Now he's an eraser on the back end. That's what he does. They've given up coming into this game the fewest plays in the NFL of 20 plus yards. And that is the run too.

And that he is such a huge part of that. So I just wanted to talk about them and spend a little bit of time and attention on what has been the best defensive football. I know this week specifically, it's not the most, the best past defensive football, the best defense in the NFC.

I know this week specifically, it's not super impressive. But I just felt like in a weird week, they deserved a little bit of oxygen here. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. I think before it was, they wanted everything gash or be gash within two seconds, you know, like last year.

It was like, yeah, which is, which is die early or win early. Just, you know, because we can't cover. And now, like you said, now it's like, no, they have confidence in doing all this other stuff. And Buda Baker is the epitome of what they are. It went from a good but limited at times player.

And now he has evolved his game that he can do more. And that's what the whole defense can do now. I also think, too, you're talking about the cover two stuff is how they just vary up their pressures to. I just complimented the chargers. Them two. They just bring these one ease, as I would call them. It's just like they only bring that pressure once a game. Okay.

So it's first down. Here comes the safety. second down, it's slot pressure. Like they just, it's just, you just make offenses, especially bad offenses like the bears. They have to hesitate. They have to think. And if you just keep doing that, and then also you, you big brother, I mean, what do you do?

I'm not bringing a blitz. I don't know what you're looking at. I don't know what? I'm not bringing it. When you make offenses do that where you have to like second guess everything, then they're going to play slow. And if it's a bad offense that doesn't play fast anyways, it just compounds. It makes it even worse.

And that's what they're doing to a lot of teams right now. And they're, I mean, some, they, fans just told me they have five ways they get to their cover two stuff. which is, and you can see it, right? They'll have a safety drop into that middle run player, and then the corner will drop out, and the slot will come to the flat. They have a ton of different ways that they do that,

and it works out well. The other guy who had a nice day today, Jordan Hicks had two sacks. He did. Guys like that are such an under-covered and under-talked about aspect of this. When they drafted David and Collins, remember, Steve Kime came out and said,

Jordan Hicks wouldn't start. He came out and said that David Collins is going to be a starter, which is just the weirdest thing. You've never, ever hear that in the NFL. So Jordan Hicks was like, well, I guess I'm out of here. Ask for a trade. There was like, I didn't think he thought his days would be numbered. And they got to camp and they were like, well, he's just going to keep playing because we need him.

We need him. Like he is the centerpiece of the defense. He is the nerve center of it. He makes all the calls. And they didn't want to bring Zavon Collins along that fast. And having somebody like that, that you can just put it in there and play and be a stabilizing force as you bring your first round, an super talented guy along at a very hard position to learn at the pace that you want to. Again, this is a study in time and patience and what time does for defenses in the NFL.

If you want to read more about that, there will be more about that on the athletic later this week. All right. Perfect. Let's get to the State Farm, surprisingly great performance of the week, presented by State Farm. I want to talk about Rob Grunkowski. Love to. Rob Grankowski is not surprisingly great. overall. Robert Gronkowski is a Hall of Fame player. He is, in my opinion, the best tight end that

has ever played professional football. I agree. I don't think that he is surprisingly great. What he is doing this year, what he is doing in this act of his career is surprisingly great. And I just wanted to take a step back today and appreciate that because we talk about it with Tom Brady. We talk about it with some of these other all-time great guys when they kind of add on to their legacy in this way. what Gronka is doing right now to pile on to an already historic legacy is mind-boggling. It's incredible that he just came back after a year away and is playing like one of the three best tight ends in the NFL, three, five, whatever the number is. The fact that he's functional would be amazing. He's playing like an elite player at the position already having been the greatest player at that position in the history of the game.

And I just think that deserves a lot more talk than it's been getting right now. It's, it's 70 to 80% of grok is still an elite player, which makes, which makes you appreciate what 100% of grok was like when he was in New England. It's with the back and all the injuries he's had. So many injuries. So many things he had to overcome. Yeah. And he does it every plate.

And it's not he's, you know, I could call him a designated hitter now, but he's still doing the dirty work stuff and still dominating. I mean, he's still doing the true why tight end stuff. and still able to set edges and block pass block, pass protect. But then also he can catch a flat route and throw three guys off of him. Like, uh, he, he, he still looks like the kid that hit puberty early and is playing a little league football. But you know what I mean?

Like the kid, the kid, he's, he should be a black striper, but he's not, you know, he's just like, he's catching the ball. No, I wasn't. I was always. Oh, I was. Oh, yeah. I couldn't touch the ball for like most of my time in youth football. Anyway.

Oh, no. I was built like a rail. So I was, yeah, I never had to worry about that. And that, yeah, but he's just, he's the perfect tight end. And we, he cracks jokes. Oh, I don't watch film. I don't do that. He's such a smart football player.

Yeah. He's just feel for the game is just that rare feel. Like he just, so you combine toughness. He can block like an offensive tackle. He can break tackles. He can actually run away from guys. That touchdown, he is the touchdown on the over route. The guy's grabbing them, pulling them, everything.

He gets off of them, catches it and pulls away from a guy that's probably 40, pounds lighter than him. And it's, it's freak. I mean, that's a freak. And on top of it, he just has that incredible 1% football IQ that these guys, these special players have. And you can see it just show up play after play because he finds the soft spots in the zone. He understands leverage.

It also helps when you're a rare athlete to, everyone can understand leverage, but, you know, winning on the leverage actually is something too. So that is one of the coolest things that he does. And that, the touchdown is a perfect example, right? So the first touchdown he scored today. third and four with five minutes left in the second quarter. The Bucks are in Trips Bunch with him as the point man in the bunch to the left side of the formation.

At the snap, Aluicon rocks him. Yeah. Chips him in the same way that we've seen Patriots chip tight ends forever. It's a good idea, right? Like you want to get him before he's out on the route. You want to mess with timing, all of that stuff. While he's getting chipped, the corner safety, I can't remember who it was, number 32, gets his hands on him because he's off balance.

So he's locked on him. and then Gronk manages to somehow swim underneath him to cross his face, even after getting rocked by the linebacker to that side, works all the way back across the formation, catches the ball on a crossing route with depth, and then runs away from him for a touchdown. Just freaks up. Just stupid stuff. Again, at any stage of his career, let alone this one, that play was amazing. And the other one I tweeted it that stuck out to me that I absolutely loved,

It was a first and 10 with a minute and 43 left in the third quarter. They had the ball in the red zone. They threw a little screen to Godwin. They'd do it all the time. Godwin was the slot receiver to Grunk's side. Grunk was an inline, tight end. There was a ton of space

between where the slot corner was that it was over Godwin and where Grunk started. And it was a quick throw. Grunk just hauled ass to get to the slot corner and just picked him off. It was a two-yard game.

But the effort on that play, he is a walk-in Hall of Famer. He was before he decided to come back, a walk-in Hall of Famer. To put in that sort of effort on that play, on a play where you are not getting the ball, where you're just blocking for someone else on a screen pass. That's why, in my opinion,

outside of the physical gifts, which are obvious, that's why he's the best tight end that I've ever seen. Because he combines that otherworldly talent with that sort of effort on all of those, little tiny plays. There's never been anybody like him. And then you look at the body of work, right? So coming into this year, right now, currently, coming into this week, he led all

tight ends in NFL history in yards per target, 9.7.4 yards per target. Coming into this game, he had caught 90 touchdown passes, okay? That's third all time at the position behind Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzalez. Tony Gonzalez has 111. Tony Gonzalez has played twice as many games. As Rob Brownckels. Yes. Twice as many games.

Not an exaggeration. It's like 270 to 135. And Grok has only 20 fewer touchdowns. And he caught two today. So he has 92. If you look at it right now, coming into this game today, I know he's been dinged up.

He led the league in yards per route run among tight ends coming into this game. And I'm not sure it'll go down much today. No. No, it won't. I mean, last week, he, I mean, really, I mean, for Nett had a good game,

but he like, he won them the bucks the game on offense. Like he was the only answer they had because he breaks the game. Like he breaks the rules. Like he you can run these coverages and anyone can run a seam route. But then it's like, but Gronk running a seam route is an actual weapon. Yes.

You know, as opposed to. At this point. Still. Still. Still. Still. And anyone that effort on the screen is such a good point because anyone can do that

healthy. Anyone in the first week of training camp can bring it and make a statement. Ah, you don't practice. Anyone can do it healthy. That's what I was. up about the 40, you know, at the combine and the receivers and dvs take freaking five minutes to stretch out and get perfect. They have the cleats. They're in their tights. Anyone can do it

healthy. It's, you have, in the NFL, you have to do it day in, day out, weekend, week out, 18 weeks now before you even hit the playoffs. And the fact that he's banged up, he can legit, just go, my back wasn't feeling it there. You know, sorry guys. You know, I tried, I tried, but he's bringing it against the Falcons. Like, you know what I mean? It's like, that's the competitor, the toughness he is. And that's why he's just so, special. It's the mind, it's the perfect package. It's, it's, you know, the mindset, the effort, the IQ, and then the freak athleticism. And like you said, it's a walk in, not just, you know, we have to appreciate what he does. Like, we really do. Because it's, it's just so, so special, even now,

even a shell, it's not even a shell of his former self, because the show is just pretty outstanding. Like, it's, it's so cool to watch. It would be a cool story if he was just there. And that's kind of what I thought it was. When they signed him last year, it's like, oh, they're getting the band back together. He'll be their third. He'll be their third. tight end, behind Brayton, O.J. Howard. Yeah. Nice role player. Yeah. He'll do a few things.

And when he's been on the field this year, he's been one of the best players at his position in the entire NFL. It's beyond a feel good story. It's one of the most impressive things we've seen from anybody in a long time. The greatest player at his position, arguably in the history of the league, takes a year off,

comes back, and just comes back as that guy again, or 85% of it. And 85% of it is still pretty damn. good. It's still all pro level. Yes. Before we move on, the other Bucks past catchers today, also pretty damn good. This is just one of those games where it's like, holy shit, what they can throw at you. I know. The slot fade that Godwin caught, Godwin had 15 catches today, right? It's a lot of short

stuff. It's a lot of screens, getting the ball out. Fine. Their passing game was their running game today. Yeah. But then he's mossing guys on a slot fade down the field. Mike Evans just absolutely dominating someone on a back shoulder three by one fade on the left sideline. Cameron, right, jumping over a guy in the end zone to make a play. It's like, this is the type of game where you're reminded that they're receiving talent,

even without Antonio Brown in the game, can absolutely run you over. Oh, yeah. It's unbelievable. Like those two examples, like Godwin is the epitome of the modern slot player. Like, yeah, that's what he is.

Because not only is his blocking, which we're, you know, always going to praise, but it's this, it's that feel for soft spots in the zone because those routes now are not the choice. It's not the Cole Beasley types. It's not like there's only a couple of those guys now. And that's kind of like a specialty role now. Now the slot guys are you see Devante Adams working from the slot. Yep. You see all these. It's a big body position now because you have to feel for zone. And if you're going to go man, you have to fight against press. Like you have to fight against these guys that know how to work them,

work them in the slot. And just his feel, his size, his hands. Like you say, he can, he can, he, he, he's, can find the soft spot in his own. He can catch a screen. He can dunk on a guy, you know, on an inside slot fade, which does not a dunk on a guy route. And then, you know, he can run a dig route and he's big. So he's the Brady can find him. Like, you know, it's not like, man, where's my little five eight guy, you know, over there? No, it's, it's a six one strong body type. And also just like, Mike Evans, man is like he caught that corner on third down, like a little smash corner. And oh my God, it was like the ball, the throw was great. But just you can see Mike Evans body control extending for the ball.

The guy, I mean, it was good coverage, but it's like, when he picked off his shoe tops on the crossing route from right to left late in the game, he's six, five, nagging the ball out of there. It's, they're wild to watch for things. And he's,

yeah, and he moves like he's like six foot 200. It's freaky stuff. Yeah, I know. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. And it's so vertical.

And it's just like, they're just, they just punch you in the stomach over and over, over. There was one point. It was like the falcons were like, like three for nine on third down and it was like the bucks are three for five they only had face like five third downs up to like the third or fourth quarter it was like ridiculous because they just they can just march on you in so many different ways it's such a fun offense all right guys remember like a good neighbor state farm is there get a quote today why don't you explain this to me like i am an eight year old all right every week at least one or two things happens that we need a little bit more explanation i mean a little bit of a deep dive a little post-mortem i want to know Does anyone want to make the playoffs in the NFC? Does anyone want those wildcard spots?

Washington aside, congratulations for winning an ugly game against Las Vegas. You now have a very real chance to get one of those spots because the Vikings and the Niners both lose today after that game that they played last week. Both of them lose two teams we never figured they would. The Vikings lose to a winless Lions team. The Niners lose to a Seahawks team that was lost in the wilderness for the last few weeks. Yes, with Adrian Peterson as they're starting running back. Let us start with that game in Detroit because who, boy, I think your dad said it best. Your dad just ripping off tweets burying the Vikings today.

He was so proud of himself. He was like looking at me smirking. I was like, all right. My phone, my terrible service. I was like, okay. But he goes, hey, I had a tweet and a couple people liked it. And I was like, okay. Like a half hour later, it's like, that's more than a couple of dad.

But he, hey, he's not wrong. He never lost to the lines. Not one time. Is that true? No. Ford Field's been very good to us. Oh, my God. Yeah.

He, he took, he always took Joey Harrington to the woodshed. You know, his, yeah, it was. For people who didn't see it, I think he said I never, not even I lost to Detroit, I think was the gist of the tweet. Even I think verbatim, it was even my sorry ass never lost to Detroit. That is what he said. said his even his first win was against the lions and it's been that that scene or that game has been like it's in a movie it's in a 50 first dates with a freaking what's his name is it Adam Sandler Adam Sandmore Adam Sandmore yeah and that's when Sean Asson's like oh I bet you you know Jimmy Client's out there catches the touch out like he says it like that's my dad's first win so it's like yeah I know I know so I remember that scene too and I don't need a you know trick the trick the girlfriend to remember it but it's yeah it I mean, I get they have injuries.

The Vikings had injuries. They're banged up and everything. They still have their offense. Like, they still like, they still have folks. Well, having Udo at left tackle showed up a couple different times. When Charles Harris is ruining you in past protection. I couldn't believe they put him at left tackle. Like, he struggles at guard.

Maybe not the best move. Putting your guy who wasn't playing very well at guard at left tackle. That showed up a couple times. I mean, that was, I believe it was a strip sack when they turned the ball over. He just got roasted by, again, Charles Harris. Charles Harris has been around. It's a Missoula. I am familiar with Charles Harris's work.

It was not a good day for that. And the injuries on defense. I like some of the stuff, the Lions did an offense today, by the way. I mean, it's every week, man. Of course, it's the first we got to bet them. So a couple different things.

I mean, they spam the play action because they were taking advantage of linebackers, right? When it's Nick Vigil and I don't know who else playing for Anthony Anthony Barr and Eric Kendricks, you might as well. So they were doing a lot of that. And they were having a lot of success. with three by one or two by one sets with a single receiver on the right side

is the tight end. It's funny because this is why the Vikings passing game can be really good sometimes. When you're in heavier sets and teams are in single high with an extra guy down in the box, you can only play so many coverages. Yep. So the lions were lining up in these heavy sets,

whether it was 21 or 12, and they had one receiver to the right that was off in the tight end. And then the single high safety would sheet over to the Twins or Tripped side. And then they were running in breakers off play action. So the safety couldn't get back over there and the corner didn't have leverage. They did it multiple times. The Hawkinson touchdown was that.

The right touchdown was that. And it was working for them over and over again. And Jared Goff ripped in some pretty nice throws in those moments. That Hockinson touchdown was so sweet. Yes. And put it this way is the Vikings had injuries and you knew exactly where the injuries were. Yep. That's right.

Intermediate linebackers. And the left tackle. I mean, it's like just, it was just like, you didn't, you didn't have to know they had injuries. And you're like, man, they're getting attacked over the middle. Those guys are getting like going left, right, back and forth. And that's what that's what play action takes advantage of. If you have linebackers with bad eyes or bad awareness, a bad, it's hard to come up field and then turn and cover. It's just hard.

It's, that's why the Fred Warners of the world are just like incredible and what they can do and look up stuff. Bobby Wagner with his pick today, which we'll get to. Yeah. Yes. But those type of guys. It's like that's why you appreciate that more when you see when it's on the other side. And you watch these guys trying to look stuff up, especially like a good player like Hawkinson. And it's, man, I mean, three and we're talking about the defense, but even the offense, they were three, three for six in the red zone.

Like they just, and then Kirk had his court moments. It's like, you look at the stat line. You're okay, he did. He decent, but then you watch it. And it's, it's like he has his moments where it's just like, oh, God, he makes a lot of bad plays worse. And it's like that's, you can't have that. If you're playing a game like this that you know it's going to be a mud fight a little bit with your injuries on defense. You know that you kind of on offense have to be kind of carry the weight, carry the water for the team.

It's like you just can't have those moments. Just eat it. Just suck it up sometimes. Just just play it safe. And that's what's so frustrating about this team a lot of times. It's like they just can't help themselves but shoot themselves in the foot. Like they just like they want to. It's like, they aim down to sites and they're like, well, I might get my tail.

Oh, screw it. There we go. That's what they feel. They feel like they do. And that's like every week. And then when you see it when it's good, it's like, that's why it's more frustrating because you see the good when they don't do this. And you're like, wow, they're a feisty team.

They do a lot of good stuff. But it's like when you see this, you're like, Jesus, I don't, you know, the best version of playoffs doesn't have in the minute. Like, you know, that's how you feel about it. It's when we think about teams that can only do one thing, right? And they can't necessarily pivot to something else in the right moments. We think about teams that really only run or throw well. Yeah.

The Vikings are not that. You know, they're running games actually been less worse than it's been over the last few years. this season, but their passing game, it's pretty good. They're efficiency numbers if you look at it, but they can't do anything when you're dictating a certain type of the game to them. When you're sitting in single high and they can run all of these boots and crossers, think about the long play to Jefferson today from right to left. We've seen it a million different times on that boot.

When they're sitting there and they tried to do this on, there was a sack where he tried to go to Jefferson in the slot. And when the lions were in like too high with light boxes today and they're just dropping safeties down, he can't, he's not good, man. Like that is where he struggles. When he can't just play with the game on easy mode, because teams are sitting there with one safety and you can just bend that how you want to, or they're playing, man, this offense struggles.

They run into roadblocks. And that's what happened today. It's, it's an oversimplification, but that's kind of what it looks like. It's when they're not getting exactly what they want, they struggle because he struggles. And that's exactly it. It's, we compliment the Cardinals defense and how the, they dictate stuff. Yes.

It's like this offense just is like they don't, it's a good offense that doesn't dictate anything. It's not like you're, you're terrified of Jefferson and Theeland. That's a great combo. Don't get you wrong. But it's like, you're not scared of what Kirk is doing to you. If that, it's kind of a weird way to say it, but it's like, you're scared, but you're not like, you're not staying up at night at this because you're like, well, if we get after, you know that

you can make one play and it comes all unraveled. It's not like, hey, like, Mahomes has a mistake. You're just like, well, he's. Michael Myers, man, the next series, he can still bring it. It's like, you get a mistake on Kirk. You're just like, yep, we got them. We got them right where we want them. And that's how the offense always feels.

It's like it feels like they are so reactive as opposed to proactive with their offense. And it just always feels that way in it. I think it really came up today. Put a pin in that thought for one second because I want to get to another quarterback. I feel the exact same way about before we do that, though. What the hell was going on in that last touchdown? What in God's name were they doing? They dropped a-in-figure it out.

And Woods is playing six yards deep in the end zone. Listen, they were not going to get beat over the top. If golf wanted to throw it 30 yards out of the back of the end zone, they had that covered. I have no idea what the thought process was behind that. I understand wanting to flood that area of the field with bodies maybe. But why the hell aren't you playing on the goal line? And also, like, I wasn't sure how they bracketed it. Like I was talking to- Made no sense to me.

And yeah, we were trying to figure it out because he had a quote for me because when my eye test was, It looked like the safety, which is a typical red zone coverage. They were in and outing the slot number two. Or it wasn't a slot, but it was the number two receiver, which happens all the time in the red zone. But then the corner's playing off and outside with no help inside. And it's just, you know, it's just like the two players busted at the worst possible time. And that's the Vikings. It's like they just can't help themselves and do it at the worst possible time to have that

bust. But it's like they're supposed to be a heady smart team. This is supposed to be the strength. And I mean, they're honestly historically bad in two minute situations. Like honestly on defense. They are like like historically bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, like all time bad in two minute. But that's when they're supposed to be the best, I think.

This is what a heady defense is supposed to dictate. This is supposed to be their strength and getting offenses to do what they want. And all of a sudden it's like they have no confidence in what they do. And especially that play is like the perfect example. It's like, all right, I get it. If you're inning out of number two, then what the hell is the corner doing? They should be so aware on a fourth and, ball game situation. Fourth and ball game. Nope, we're going to have two busts. And that's it. And, you know, the quote came out. The quote, I don't know, I got to look more into it. Yeah, it's bizarre. Absolutely bizarre at the worst time. So you were talking about how you feel like Kirk is a quarterback that one mistake things start to unravel a little bit. He's going to give you one or he's going to give you two. Jimmy Garapolo is in a very, very similar boat, right? They're in the same family of quarterback.

If you look at the quarterback tiers every single year, if you think about the ways those offenses have been successful, if you think about Kyle Shanahan's love affair with Kirk Cousins in the past, they're in the same family of quarterback. And you watch that game that Jimmy Garoppolo played today and some of the decisions that he made. And it's just for as excited as you could get about the Niners at times, there's always going to be a couple things in the back of your mind, the Garapolo stuff and knowing that that's always possible, knowing that that game where he gives you a couple

the ball he threw down the seam that got intercepted by Chondry Diggs, I still don't understand what was happening. I still don't understand what he saw or what he was going for or why he let that ball rip. The Bobby Wagner interception is like, oh, no. That is oh, no stuff. And then the other thing about this team today that crept up, because they lost this game for a multitude of reasons. It was a bizarre game, right? You're fumble and kickoffs and they're running 75 yards on fake punts for touchdowns.

but to me, the things that are truly symptomatic of who they are and lost them the game in ways that are real are the ways that Jimmy Garoppolo played and what happened with the right side of their offensive line. Compton playing against Carlos Dunlap, both on the last play of the game and on the safety, their right side of the line is just outmaned against what is not a very good Seattle front.

So even if you're thinking, all right, this is an aberration, they're still going to make the playoffs, we feel good about this. the best version of the NFC playoff has the Niners in it. Those are the two things that I'm not going to be able to get rid of. Absolutely. And I watched their game against the Vikings.

And I was like, I wanted to, they did all the cool stuff, the run game stuff and some, you know, the past design stuff on third downs. But then it's just like you see Jimmy G. This is last week. Jimmy G throws the pick to Harrison Smith on the one robber when he doesn't see him. Perfect example. Even though he's a nine year vet or whatever he is, how many starts he has now. Next series. The next third.

down on the next series. They have another end breaker, same coverage. And he eats a sack because he almost threw a pick. And I know 45, 49er fans, I don't know. Oh my God, it's unbelievable. The Jimmy Gene, Jimmy G stands that just like come after you. If you say anything about it, it's like, are you watching the same guy? I'm watching.

It's like I get it. He can make, he's so infuriating because once in a while, he'll make a brilliant throw. Just like, Kirk Cousins. They're from the same test tube. Like they are. Yes. They really are. They are.

It's unbelievable. Because it's just, it's like, what are you doing? Do you have enough start? where that shouldn't be an issue that you run they don't that many plays they don't their passing concepts aren't like varied like they just window dress the shit out of them i'm sorry that's what it is but it's also it's like anything doesn't unfur unravel how he thinks is going to unravel post snap it's like he freezes and that's what it looks like in the pocket like he's just like frozen and it's just go create do something you know it's it's called a pocket but you can leave the pocket like you can

actually like you know it's it's fine it's totally fine if you want to break content and just, you know, create a throw on the run or something like that. And he like just straight up refuses to do it. He would rather just go, nah, I'm cemented in here, man. Hey, hey, I got calm feet. He's got the calmest feet. I'm going to unplug my controller and just hang out in the pocket. And it's just like, come on, dude.

Like everything's going to be perfect for you. Like you got to do some shit. Like, you know, that's and that's what, like you said, it's like, I was excited. And I do think this four-n-n-neers team is actually a pretty good team. Like I, I rewatching it, I felt a little better about them than I thought I would because it was just so ugly. But then just Jimmy G has those moments where it's just like, you just want to, can we start Traylans? That's how I feel too. Can we start Traylance? I mean, he he layered a couple balls outside the numbers today. They were beautiful. A couple of those throws high yuk. When it looks good,

it can look very good. But there are those few handful of plays a game where it's like, oh man. He is the opposite of get you a bucket guy. Jimmy G cannot get you a bucket. He can point whatever direction you're going to point him, that's where he can go for you. He's a three point corner shooter. He's a corner shooter. He shoots in three. That's what he does. Hey, catch and shoot. Catch and shoot. That's way he's got it for you. But it's like as soon as he has to create a guy off the dribble, oh boy, you know, you're hoping that that floater goes in. That's in God. And also my coaching points for them too is like don't have those stupid penalties. Don't have and don't get dunked on by D.K. McHaff. I think that's my other coaching points for. Well, I mean, the, the Gerald Everett's stuff

today was just what a all time game to fumble twice and then essentially give you create three turnovers by yourself as a tight end. That is of like five targets or something. It's a whole fan bad game. I mean, that's really, really impressive. On the other side of it, I cannot believe that George Kittle lost a football game today. I cannot believe after what he did in that game, his team is credited with a loss in the column.

That shouldn't be, somehow he should be in a different category after what happened in this game. Oh my God. Even the reverse two them was awesome. The tiptoe down the sideline. He is, I mean, in terms of athletes at the tight end position, I mean, what he can do after the catch. I can't remember anybody that just has that ability.

And it's unbelievable. Pancake a guy. Yeah. Legit pancake. Real pancakes. Not like, oh, he trips the guy up. Oh, that was a nice shield block. It's like he's a tone setter on the edge.

And it's you unlock the run game and the past game for the tight end position. Woo. Like that's, that's a special player. That is a, a, we talk about war and baseball.

That is like his, what he creates for their team is, he's worth several wins, even if it didn't happen today. Like, he is worth that as a player. He had 181 of Jimmy G's 299 yards with Debo Samuel out. Of Jimmy G's 299 yards passing today,

165 of them came after the catch. Oh, of course. Hey, I, just, just go put that down right here. Yeah, Iyuk and Kittle.

I will just compliment those two. Yeah, again, a couple decent throws outside the numbers. We layered a couple balls in. I you dropped one that would have been a big completion. This team is so frustrating. I know. There are so many guys in this team that I, you're so excited about. And when Debo gets back healthy and just like that group of scope position players that they have,

Trent Williams is the best left tackle in football. He's killing people. Yep. But the Jimmy G thing. and the right side of the line thing. That is just going to be, it's always going to be there. So you look right now at the NFC playoff picture. Washington is now the sixth seed with the win that they had.

The Vikings could have actually done themselves in here. They had a very good chance beating the Lions today to just kind of keep this thing on the tracks and eventually make the playoffs. Now, if they don't, I think this thing could be over. If they made the playoffs, I still think that there would have been a chance that they said it's probably time. like we hit the reset button in a soft way. We move on.

Thank you for everything. This was a good era of Vikings football. It's just time for a change. Now, if they don't make the playoffs, I think that's all but guaranteed. And if you look at it, I mean,

the Eagles are six and seven. They're in the eight spot. It's just, I did not expect the NFC playoff picture to look like it does right now coming into this set of games today. That's all I'll say. The NFC East side,

I thought it was just, oh, Cowboys and, you know, three shit teams. Like, you know, it's, yeah, Yeah, it's unbelievable.

It's like the Vikings need mouthwash so bad. Like it just feels like that. It just, they just have so many bad vibes. Like Kirk Cousins, how he plays is just kind of a reflection on the whole team. It's like they just can't help themselves, but make one bad play,

make it worse. And just they just do it constantly. But then it's, they have other times where they look brilliant. And that's just so infuriating about the whole team because that's always the vibes with it. And I, yeah,

I don't know, 40-nires with Jimmy G is, man. I'm just going to watch it again. And it's funny. watching the 49ers the last couple weeks and going like, hey, I get really excited about what they're doing. And then it's always like, oh, yeah, they got number 60 starting at right guard. They got Brunska because you just see what happens.

And today it's like when a team can punish it, they punished it. They saw it on tape and they exposed it. And guess what? That's now the resume. Well, guess what every other team is going to start doing? They're going to go, oh, that's right. These guys suck. These guys are not good.

They've been hiding them. And we'll see what happens after when teams start pushing the pocket on them. When you get to this point in the season, when you're looking at playoff games against the team like the bucks or against a team like the Packers, that's these are the types of things that you have to start thinking about. It's not, you know, are the Niners, when things are rolling,

it can look really good despite these two little things. That despite the two little things, that's the shit that starts matter at this point in the season. That you really have to start honing in on that kind of stuff. Pumping the brakes, all right. Let's get to pump the brakes. This is a segment where I kind of throw something out

that may seem a little bit outlandish and you walk me back. on occasion or just kind of push me off the cliff whichever way you want to bring it okay here's what i want to propose to you is what andrew whitworth is doing right now a week away from his 40th birthday as impressive as what tom brady is doing right now i'll say yield i'll say i'll say it's a yeah i know i know i it's not because tom brittier's playing like an MVP and what whitworth is playing is like good right now. But the fact is playing left tackle at 39 years old, about to turn 40 is he will be the first player in NFL history to start a game at left tackle at age 40 next week. That's insane. And and offensive line, it's okay, Larry Fitzgerald playing

a long time. Hey, you can sub receivers in and out. Hey, we can certain plays we can take you out. Left tackle, you're in there every snap. We're not like rotating tackles, you know, depending on a pass set, and they don't chip help for him. They are treating them like a true, he's one of the best left tackles in football. It's similar to the grong thing, where even if he was just a capable left tackle at age 40, wow,

that's impressive. He'd be a good left tackle for 40. We don't even need qualifiers. Yeah. He's still playing at an extremely high level on the eve of his 40th birthday. I could believe he was turning 40 in a week. It was like, you forget,

you keep forgetting. Like, I mean, he's like, Jason Peters playing left tackle. He's like 38, 39 as well. Yes. That's what it's supposed to look like. It's like, okay, he has a couple of wrinkles, but he's hurt every snap. Okay, like it's hold onto your hat if he has the one-on-one consistently. And it's like, no, not Whitworth.

Whitworth is playing against these bonafide guys and holding his own. And like you said, it's, he really is. He's playing like a top five left tackle at age 40, which is, okay, maybe it's not a yield. Maybe it's not pumped the brakes. Let's go full steam ahead. Maybe it is just as impressive. So here's what I want to, I want to talk. about.

All right. Let's do a little canton court in real time. Oh, nice. Jason Peters is a nine-time pro bowler, two-time first-team all-pro. Jason Peters was the left tackle on the all-decade team. Jason Peters will be a day one Hall of Famer. It would be a no question about it. Do you think we should consider Andrew Whitworth in the same tier of left tackle as we

talk about Jason Peters? He's a four-time pro ball ball ball and a two-time first-team all-pro. But if you think about the level he's playing at now, the level he is sustained since he got to Los Angeles. The fact that he was a really good player for a long time in Cincinnati, and now he's had this next act of his career, like, it just feels like he's in rare air when it comes to that position. I typically am not a compiler guy. Like I want, that's what I'm like, when you talk about Gromk being the best head end ever, I like peaks. Yeah, I like the Calvin Johnsons and the Patrick Willis's and Randy Moss. I want guys that were supernovas and just kind

of shot through the NFL like a comet. That's my personal taste. for greatness. But when you look at what Andrew Whitworth has done, it's not just these cheap accrual seasons at one of the hardest positions to play in the entire sport. He's earning that shit at that spot for an offense that asks a lot

of their offensive line, and he is giving them a lot. I just think that we should, again, step back and just be like, man, we are seeing something here. Like, this is worth appreciating. This is a Hall of Fame level player at age 40 doing this right now.

remember when I did the all 22 all stars for Grantland in 2012. I remember writing about Andrew Whitworth. And that was the year where he was moonlighting at garden tackle and just switching back and forth and dominating at both positions. Man, this guy's pretty damn good. Like we should talk about him more. This is 10 years later. And he is still one of the best left tackles in football. Which is unbelievable. Like he didn't also get good when he went to L.A. And I think that's what's so funny. He got a spotlight on him, like a little bit more because of those teams. But it's he, like you said, he was doing this in Cincinnati. And I think he just never got those awards. Yeah. And that's the thing. Say two of those years, he got another pro bowl, pro bowl. Like it's like, that's a little more

palpable for voters. You know what I mean? Because now the ones that, you know, they're not really studying the film, some of these voters, that they maybe, you know, they're not the ones. They're not going to acknowledge that because they're going to have to look at the accolades that this guy gets. But that's the thing. I'm glad he gets the shine now. because that's what he's been doing. Like, and those Bengals teams were loaded. I mean,

not just skill guys, but those offensive lines were awesome. Diculous. And that's the thing. I think before it was more like, oh, it's a sum of parts. It's a bunch of good to very good players.

It's like, no, he was a freaking star. And, you know, now he's getting that kind of accolades, but it's not like he also went to L.A. And it's like,

oh, he got better. It was like, no, he was better than he's just, now he's 90% of what he was and it's still really freaking good. But I think he's a hall ofamer. I really do.

I absolutely do. I will bang that drum as loud as I can when it comes time for it. Yeah, I think he's a bona fide star at the position and, you know, just also like the amount of games he's played. I mean, it's just something that it needs to be, you know, awarded or rewarded, I'm sorry. Because this is not like Frank Gore playing until he's 37 to me. It's not like Larry Fitzgerald over the last few years. That is not what this is.

It's not just like tagging on seasons. It's not even to me what Philip Rivers was doing last year. And I think Philip Rivers is playing really good football by the end of last year. This is a different category of production. And I feel like we have to take advantage. We have to acknowledge that. We have to really notice it because it's so easy. It's like, oh, Andrew Whitworth is good.

We know that. Right? And just let it pass. And that's why I wanted to do this. I don't want to let this pass anymore. I want to step back and be like, this is happening. And we should talk about this. Yeah.

Start banging the drums. We're just, hey, we're the Whitworth Monkeys. We're going to just start banging those drums for it. because I agree. I completely agree. It's watching the Packers game, he had a couple, like at first, he had, he, the strip sack happened. I was like,

who he looks rough. But then it's the rest of the game. He like played like, like an all pro. Like a pro bowl, Calable left tackle. And again, he's 39 doing that in the cold.

You know, like banged up. It's like he doesn't miss a snap. It's unbelievable. The consistency. And that's really, isn't that what we award in the Hall of Fame is consistency as well? Yes.

But he's not consistently like you say like, oh, Frank Gore with a, know, you know, stacking up the stats over his career. It's consistently very good to all-star play. And yeah, that's a Hall of Fame player to me. I'm going to smile at you. And when you knock us down, we're going to get up.

And on the way up, we're going to buy the kneecap off. All right. And on the way up, we're going to take your other kneecap. And we're going to get up. And then it's going to take three shots to get us down. And when we do, we're going to take another hunk out of you. Before, before long, where are they going to be the last one standing? All right.

If that's any indication, every week we give out. the belt guy who was just a cut above who won the day in some fashion and today we're giving it to Dan Campbell first win for the Lions you know again they did some stuff on offense I thought was very cool he's our offensive play caller now this could be a joke right we could give it to Dan Campbell because the Lions were winless it's like oh well the Lions got a win they deserve it because I've had this conversation of people in the past on a theoretical level it's like all right if you want a tank in the NFL, what's hard about it? It's hard to lose. It's really, really hard when you think about all that these guys put in every single week, the amount of preparation, the amount of work,

how much it matters to you. This isn't basketball. You can't walk your way through a season. The amount of effort that goes into every single football game just to stay alive over the course of the game and how draining it is, to lose every single week takes so much out of you. and to win a game, they have to feel so damn good. And the game against a division opponent against a pretty good team when you play well, all of that stuff. So that's, Dan Campbell gets the bell today.

Him and the Lions deserve it today. It's, we forget, even for me, now that I'm out of it, is teams are just don't roll the ball out on Sunday and that's it. That's not their week. We,

we check in on Sunday, go, oh yeah, here's the Lions again. Mondays are grind, Tuesdays are grind. Wednesday's a grind. Thursday's a half day. It's not as much of a grind, but it's still a grind. That's still seven to seven for most coaches. Friday's an easy day. But it's, those are still practices on those days, quote unquote, easy day. That's still time and effort that

goes in. That's still putting a games or a practice script together. Still putting a game plan together. It's still going over situations. It's still meeting. It's not like you lose the game and go, well, I don't want to see everybody. Let's cancel meetings a whole week. You still go through that schedule. Everyone's had a bad day of work, like, or a day, you really don't feel like doing anything. Now imagine an NFL where it's like, well, you have no excuse because guess what? Your resume comes up every weekend and your resume gets exposed every weekend. If you're lying, if you're not putting in the work, we'll find out very, very quickly.

And you could tell this Lions team is they have pride, even if the record doesn't indicate it, even if the franchise, you know, is the Lions. It's that, you know, we can crack jokes about it. But it was like the Rams game, when they took it to them, they were trying to to do all the stuff. They had all the fake kicks, the onsides and all that. And I mentioned the one anecdote that watching Dan Campbell talk to is

backup, backup, backup, backup practice squad corner and give him heart. And kind of like really, after you made a mistake, I think it was they gave him a touchdown or a two point and talk to him and saw how the player responded. And that's what he is. And that's what the kind of culture he fosters.

And they were due for this. I mean, the Steelers game where they tied, the Browns game, the Bears game, the first Vikings game. First Vikings game. I mean, all these games, the Rams game, they're hanging with them.

Like all these, all these games that they're just, you know, hanging in there, hanging in there. That speaks to him. It starts at the top. It's a reflection of the head coach. And so I, I'm all about giving him the belt because, uh, Kent made the joke. Maybe this week it's the hardcore title. That's what he got.

He got the hardcore title. You know, Terry Funk would be proud. Mick Foley would be proud. Like that, that's what he got this week. And it's, you know, you know, with the shots of espresso. He deserves those this week. because I'm, I'm, I'm a fan of his just because of how I see how he acts every game and how you can tell he cares. And it's not fake.

It's very genuine. And it's not just meathead stuff. It's genuine coaching going on. And we can crack the jokes and make the memes about him. But it's like he's a genuine coach that cares and the players care right back. And so I, I'm, I'm happy for him. It's a cool, cool win. It's cool for that team.

I don't know how it's going to go over the next however long. You know, when they actually get players, I'd like to see what Aaron Glenn can do with it. But in this moment, it's pretty great. And you mentioned that the backup, backup corner. I think Jerry Jacobs is the guy you're talking about, right? Yes. He made a couple of plays today in space on third downs where he was just erasing guys. And the way that he reacted after making those plays, be an 010 and 1 and being a street free agent that's now like their fifth corner that's having to play.

And he get burned by Justin Jefferson on one play down the field. He's going to have those moments. But coming back to have some bright spots in this game in their first win, that's cool. Like that is the type of investment and that is rewarding when you're somebody who has invested all of this in this team in the way that these guys have. So it's fun. It's fun to have that moment and kind of that one thing. It's like, all right, we put in all this work and it paid off here for at least a week. It paid off.

All right. That is all we got, guys. Please submit your questions for this week's mailbag. Give us a call. Leave a voicemail. Number is 872-22-22-7073. Again, 872-22-22-7073. The email is The Athletic Football Show at gmail.com.

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