The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 1 QB Performances with Quincy Avery, Aaron Reiss Breaks Down the Texans, Film School with Ted Nguyen, and more

Episode Date: September 16, 2020

First up, Robert is joined by Quarterback Consultant Quincy Avery to give his thoughts on the best and worst QB performances of Week 1, including the play of Gardner Minshew, Dwayne Haskins, Tom Brady, and more.Then, Texans beat writer for The Athletic, Aaron Reiss joins the show for a Team Visit to discuss Houston’s blowout loss to the Chiefs on opening night, how the Texans’ offseason moves led to their rough start, and much more.To close the show, The Athletic’s own Ted Nguyen takes us to Film School, breaking down a handful of the week’s best plays, featuring the likes of Lamar Jackson, CJ Henderson, Cam Newton, and Daniel Jones.Get a subscription to The Athletic for $1 a month when you go to http://theathletic.com/footballshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Help support your local businesses. Whether they're corner stores, coffee spots, or favorite shops, local businesses have always been on your team, supporting you and your community. They remember your order and call you by a name, always giving back, making a difference, and going that extra mile. But right now, more than ever, local businesses need our support. So let's be there for them. The next time you go shopping, help your team score and choose to shop at local businesses. And while you're there, look for the contactless symbol and tap to pay with a contactless visa to help support your community. because where and how you shop matters.

Visa, everywhere you want to be, official partner of the NFL. This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, and I am thrilled to be bringing you guys the first edition of our Wednesday show during the season. So before we get to our guests,

which they're all amazing, and I'm really looking forward to it, I want to kind of do some housekeeping about what the show is going to look like. So each week we're going to have on a guest at the front of the show. It's kind of take a big, picture look at the league. I think that the midweek kind of slate allows you to take a step

back, get out of the rhythms of the schedule, kind of take a bird's eye view of what's going on. So we're going to try to do that every week with a fun guest and just, yeah, take a real considered look at one specific topic. After that, we're going to have on one of the athletics many team writers each week to do a deep dive on a specific franchise. Today, that is Aaron Reese, my good friend Aaron Reese talking about the Texans. After that, we are going to have Ted Winn on to do a little bit of an explainer on some film that he watched that week. We're going to call it Film School with Tedwin. I love reading Ted.

I learn stuff from Ted all the time. And I really wanted to bring that to you guys. But before we do any of that, I want to welcome our first guest. When I was thinking about the kind of the first topic I wanted to tackle on our Wednesday show, it was quarterbacks, which should not be a surprise. You know, week one can be misleading in some ways. But there's always going to be a story and there's always going to be something to pay attention to with the level of quarterback plan what we're seeing from that position.

And someone who knows a hell of a lot about that position is our next guest, Quincy Avery. Quincy, how should I, what's your title? Like, how should I introduce you? I don't know. I'd just be making up stuff. I'm a quarterback consultant, I guess we could leave it at that. You're a quarterback consultant. You work with a lot of guys currently in the league.

You work with Deshaun Watson. You work with a lot of high-profile college players. You know the position and pay attention to the position in a way that few guys do. So I couldn't think of anybody I wanted to do this with other than you to do week one reactions to what happened in the quarterbacking world. So I don't want to get too, overreact too much to what happened in week one. I think we can occasionally do that.

But I do want to ask you, just your biggest surprises from what you saw in week one from NFL quarterbacks. I was really surprised in seeing Gardner, Minchu, and how well he handled the lack of options that they have in offense. he played the game above the neck at a very high level. I think sometimes he tries to get outside himself in terms of doing too much physically. Like, he's limited physically, honestly. But the way that he played, it was very mindful of what his limitations are.

How can I get the ball in playmaker's hands? And then just allowing that team to be successful. I think that's a true testament to the work that he's put in throughout the offseason. I think it's going to be difficult for him to keep that up over 16 weeks. but I don't think you could have asked him to play any better than he just played this past Sunday. What jumps out to me is just kind of an amateur viewer of the position, is that he has a really understanding of what plays are trying to accomplish and how plays attack defenses.

He's, I mean, that pump touchdown to Chark and the right side, that's a complete understanding of this is where they're going to react, this is where I want to go, waiting for that second window to open up on the Chanel touchdowns. I know where they are. I know where I want to be. Are there any other just, but between, the ears things that jump out to you, which is the way he plays the game? Those plays are like the big splash, the sizzle stuff that really gets people going,

but it's the ability on the quick game, just to quickly discern, like, I'm starting my left to right and I'm working. It's not a mirrored concept, but they're working two opposite concepts on both sides, and he's working it off the rotation. He just gets the ball to his hand. It's very evident that he understands what coverages are trying to do, and for you to have that depth of knowledge this early in the. in the season, just let you know, like the film work, the studying that he's done.

And I think that's a real testament to like, he's his football mind. So in terms of his physical limitations, when you're watching him, it probably didn't show up on Sunday. But as you watched him last year, as you said, it's probably not going to hold up for 16 games. Where do you think his physical limitations show up the most? When he's really trying to drive the ball down field, like he just can't do that in the way that you would want a top tier quarterback to be able to do it. And it also is moving in the pocket, right?

He's sudden in terms of, like, quickly moving off his spot, but he can't extend plays with his legs. I think sometimes he tries to do too much in terms of running from the pocket and tries to create a little too much in that, like rather than just getting the ball to his hands, getting away from the sacks and things of that nature. So his ability to eliminate all those plays, right? It helps the team out so much and just staying ahead on the sticks. So it's interesting. he's in a spot where if they're bad and they're in a position to draft the quarterback, it almost doesn't matter how well he plays because of those limitations, because of his draft status, everything else.

I mean, he would have to play like this every single week, I think, and this team would have to be pretty good for him to hold down this job long term. But another team that's probably going to struggle, but their quarterback likely has a legitimate audition happening right now for his future with the franchises they rebuild is Dwayne Haskins, a guy that you know very well. So when you watched Dwayne on Sunday, obviously they came away with a win that was surprising. What jumped out to you about his first start of his second season?

It was so interesting to see his level of composure throughout a game like that. You've, like a lot of people have heard about all the things he's done in terms of becoming a better leader, becoming just a better student of the game, doing the things that they want in terms of in the building. But then seeing that carry out throughout a game, it's very easy. when you start out that poorly in terms of the stat line, to quickly lose it and kind of let your season almost fall apart in that week one, right? You got Kyle Allen there who's been in this system, who understands it very well.

If things keep going the way they're going the first quarter and a half, you can quickly see how the dynamic changes with him in the Washington football team organization. He was able to bounce back, go to the locker room, give a speech that revitalized his whole team. You get everybody worked up around the things that you're saying, the same guy they said last year, we're not sure how he can lead this team, how he can be a leader of men in this organization, and then go out there and not only play well the second hat, but bring those guys to a victory. I think it says a lot about where he's at and where this team's going in the future with him in that defense.

So mindset, obviously, it was something that people may have questioned, something he worked on. When you were kind of considering his offseason plan and where he needed to, to get better mechanically from year one to year two. What did you kind of want to hone in on? So the big deal for Duane is he's played less as an NFL quarterback than anybody else in the league. Like there's rookies who started, everybody started more games of football than Duane Haskins.

He only played 13 games in college. So it's like, how do I get Duane ready to go out there and just understand what people are doing? So the physical aspect is not something you ever have to worry about with Duane. He's at the very top tier of NFL arms. Like arm talent, he has all of that. But it was more about making sure that he was ready when he stepped out on the field to do the things we just talked about Gardner doing.

Like play above the neck. Understand exactly what it was. The contrast between them is so interesting. It's fascinating. They're like literally the opposite quarterback. Gardner mentioned through 10,000 passes in college. And Dwayne Haskins did not. But they're so far apart in the physical spectrum.

It's just you couldn't come up with two quarterbacks in their second year that are more different than those two guys. It's so interesting. Yeah, when you look at it like that, it makes it ton of, like, it's tough to imagine how both guys can be successful in the NFL as different as they are, as different as they are. Yeah, but you could, with the skills, as long, it's like, they're coming out from two different directions, but they kind of want to get to that middle ground. And with Duane, because the skills are there and you don't have to worry about them, you can learn the above the next stuff. And that's why he's in a position to kind of take that job and really take the reins and move. forward with it because the ceiling is just so much higher.

So if he can figure that stuff out and say, this is my job, but you can believe in me as a starting quarterback of your NFL franchise, then I think that he does have so much longer term future, such a longer term future than a guy like Minshue judge just because the skills are so apparent. Yeah, he's really just got a hold on. Like, if he just has a solid year this year, I think the trajectory of his career, just seeing him turn the corner, you put yourself in a situation where another top tier first round pick. If they get a guy in offense, they can be very, very successful really, really quickly.

So Dwayne hasn't played a ton of football. A guy that has played a lot of football is Tom Brady, but he's played it in one specific way for a really long time. So when you were thinking about Brady going to Tampa, what aspects of that offense and that transition did you really want to watch early on? And what did you see on Sunday that either confirmed or went against some of the things you expected coming into the year. Yeah, I don't want to overreact, but I will say this. I thought very early on, it was going to be difficult for him, especially this short offseason to be able to transcribe things from the way he's done it for 20 plus years in New England and then come and just hear things differently. Just the way that you got to communicate,

Mike points, we'll return the line of scrimmage. He has to think about that and expend a tremendous amount of mental energy every single snap, just thinking about the overall operation So I just want to know, could he sustain a whole game having to do that play after play and then still make the good decisions we've known them for? And we know that Bruce Indians wants to push the ball down the field. I didn't expect him to have to try and do that. But I did think he was just going to be safer with the ball in that offense, hoping that they would be able to get some run after the catch plays.

And they just weren't able to do any of that. Yeah, I'll be curious to see what aspects of that offense kind of carry over from week to week and what they just say, this isn't going to work. Because that throw to Godwin he hit early in the game, with that play action throw where Godwin came from the slot on that corner, it's like, that's a beautiful throw. He can still make that. I just don't know how often you want him to be making it.

If that's going to be the foundation of your offense, the same way it was with Winston. I assume that they're going to evolve a little bit over time, that they're going to come together even more in terms of what he's good at, what he's not. It's a feeling out process for them just because everything is going to be so new with pretty much every single aspect of what he's being asked to do.

I think they really have to come to a median. I'm like, what is, like, they got to find some middle ground because they can't have these situation where Tom Brady's in the pocket for three plus seconds, try to maneuver in there. And check, he's just not that guy. He's not really willing to do those things. He's getting the ball out of his hands so quickly in New England. They've just got to figure out how do we blend that with this and then still be able to

get our shots in through play action and things of that nature. Who were you kind of disappointed by? Who did you kind of expect more from in week one? You were like, oh, man, I just did not think that he was going to look like that when we... Carson Wentz was really disappointing to me because he's been in that offense before, right? It's not a new offense. He knows most of the guys in the system. They've added a bunch of speed.

Like, he could complain previously about not having weapons. He has guys who can take the top off the defense. Like, he can get the guys to the ball to guys in space and they can make plays. And he just didn't look like someone who was supposed to be a franchise quarterback. Right? It just wasn't that. First half, he started off really well, but after that he just kind of deteriorated. And it was disappointing to see.

What aspects really jumped out to you? What things do you think he struggled with that you just wouldn't expect from somebody who's been in the same system? So his decision making was fine, but just his ability to make throws. Like, he just became tremendously inaccurate. There was like some deep digs and he's just throwing it behind guys. His feet were in the wrong spot. And it didn't look like his eyes and feet were tied together. like he didn't necessarily go to the line of scrimmage with a plan so that he could quickly get off of one thing and work his way through regression based on what the defense gave him.

Now that defensive line was giving him hell, but he needs to still be able to work through his regressions, get his eyes in the right spot so that he can make throws accurately and on time. So when you have an offense like that that really played the same style for a couple years consistently, when they didn't have that down the field speed and they really couldn't stretch the field. and things were kind of compressed. Do you think that him kind of falling into playing like that and then being asked to push the ball down the field consistently last week? I think that transition and mindset can take a little bit for guys to get used to when you played such a specific way for so long. And then you're like, all right, now we're going to push it.

And you just haven't been able to do that in a live scenario where there's a rush and everything else. Do you think that that's a jump, even if we've seen him do it at other points of his career? I think that's a difficult ask. but for someone with the level of skill that he has, he needs to be able to do it. And even if he's like, okay, I'm really struggling with that, he's got to find his way to get to completions,

no matter what the situation. So it is difficult to switch the mindset in terms of, let me have this super aggressive personality. Let me really start pushing to get the ball down the field vertically. Let me take those shots. But when you're in a position to do so and those things come open, you got to be able to hit him. And just too often last week, he wasn't able to do that.

That's interesting. It reminds me kind of what happened with the chiefs that year that Alex Smith, when they got all those weapons and they really started pushing the ball down the field, he could make that transition. It's like, all right, I can do this. And with Wentz, it's not an unwillingness to do it, a lack of willingness. It's not an inability. We've seen him do it in the past.

It looked like they were just so out of sorts trying to be this version of an offense that was such a departure of what we've seen from them over the last couple years. A hundred percent. I really wonder if it was so much of that defensive line in Washington that really, after you get hit three or four times, and you start thinking about the defensive line, what are they doing that's making it so difficult? And I think that's something that people need to think about is, okay, like, what's this quarterback's number? And when I say what's his number? What is the number of hits that we can get on him where his mindset changes? And he's thinking about us and he's not necessarily thinking about what he needs to think about in terms of attacking our defense.

And I think that they got to that number relatively quickly. And I think we saw Wentz kind of unraveled throughout the game. And I feel like, you, Doc was kind of in a similar spot where he wasn't getting hit quite as much. The sack totals weren't piling up the same way they were with Wentz. But just being under pressure all the time, even if you're a quarterback that deals with pressure well, even if you're a guy with a ton of starts, a ton of experience, it just feels like when your mindset changes from, I am attacking people to I'm being attacked. There are certain guys where it kind of completely changes the structure of the offense.

And I feel like we saw that with Philly. I feel like we saw that with Dallas. And I think that we're going to see that a decent amount early in the year when offensive lines with new guys especially struggle with communication and everything. That's the real difference to me between a superstar quarterback and a guy who can just win you games. The superstar quarterbacks, it's just like you need to hit him one more time than you did before they make that switch. So I want to say Carson once is the superstar, but until he can do that, he isn't. That's what I thought I was so impressed with what Lamar did on Sunday when he was just, he was under siege in a way that he wasn't last year at times.

I mean, they pressured him on half of his dropbacks. And it wasn't where he was getting hit a lot. But he was having to move off his spot. And he was having to move around the pocket. And he wasn't just able to sit there and play. And he just looked completely comfortable the whole time. I mean, just guys that can kind of come up. up with answers and answer the bell no matter what you throw at them and it just doesn't seem to

matter. That collection of quarterbacks is a small list. I mean, you could probably name four or five guys, whether it's Watson, Mahomes, Lamar, but you really run out of those names fast. I think we forget just how few players actually belong in that team. It's such a small group and we're really seeing another group like age out of that. We saw Tom, we saw Drew. Those guys don't look the saying, when you cut on the game Sunday, you weren't looking at two superstar quarterbacks. You were looking at middle of the road quarterbacks at this point. Like, they were great quarterbacks for the whole career, but they just don't have it anymore. And it's interesting to see like this new wave of guys, those guys you mentioned, the Russell

Wilson's kind of take it over. And it looks like Aaron Rogers still has it. Yeah, I think he's going to be okay. Everyone that tried to throw dirt on Aaron Rogers. It was so funny because on every single platform, whenever anybody talked about him, I'm like, is Aaron Rogers done? I said vehemently every time that I would be the last person in America to throw dirt on him. Because I've just seen the movie too many times. There are way too many. And I tweeted it right before the season started.

He went undrafted in my brother's fantasy football league. And I was like, you guys should not do this because all of this disrespect gets put out into the universe. This comes back to him completing a dagger in week 17 to end the bear's season. I know exactly how this movie goes because I've seen it a hundred times. All right, let's talk about another guy who's, I think, firmly in that he needs help to get where you want him to be as a quarterback. And he shouldn't be with the way that he's been paid and with the way that the 49ers have kind of put their structure around him. Jimmy Garapolo did not play well on Sunday. I think that he was a good quarterback for most of last season.

I mean, their numbers are very good. It's hard to separate the scheme from what he actually does. are you worried at all just about how shaky he can look in stretches and what that means for the 49ers overall ceiling as a team? I wouldn't say that I'm worried. I just think that we know who he is and he's not a superstar quarterback. And it's going to be interesting to see how long that Kyle Shannon can keep devising up these schemes and these plans that allow him to be successful. He gets guys really, really, really open. He's so creative. He does so many things in the run game that makes the defense confused. Their eyes are all over the place from the outside zone play action to the count.

Like everything that he does, he makes it difficult on you. And then bang, he gets a throw a pass to somebody who's wide open after a play action. If they don't have that capability, he is going to find himself in a real tough situation in terms of moving the ball down the field. If he's got to go get you first downs or he has to go win it with his arm, you are not going to be successful. Yeah, it's interesting because when he played well that year, when he got to San Francisco,

when he had that stretch at the end of the season, he was doing a lot of stuff off schedule. He was getting outside the pocket. He was making plays. It didn't look like the offense that we see from San Francisco when they're at their best. And now I think that when they struggle, it's because he's holding the ball.

It's because that first kind of look isn't open. It's because he has to kind of. kind of sit for a second. And I think if you can just knock him off his spot, whether it's timing or even physically, he's just not somebody who's going to respond really well. And that's what I saw on Sunday. It's just every time he's asked to do a little bit more, he's going to struggle doing a little bit more. Yeah, anytime the first read isn't there, it becomes difficult for him. Anytime he has to really work through those progressions, get to two, get to three. And it's, at one point you have to figure out, like, when do we cut it? And when you have too much talent there.

you have a coach that's too good and I don't want to talk about somebody losing their job week one but they have to figure out like who can get this done for us when we know she in a hand's always like I can do it with basically any quarterback well he's finding out quickly like

he has done it with any quarterback and he's going to find out quickly like yeah you can do it any quarterback but it's a lot easier if you have a good one and it's like when do they go do that find a good quarterback so I want to before you get out of here I want to ask you one more thing

talk about one more thing kind of on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. A quarterback that can absolutely transcend his circumstances often has, and I think we'll be asked to do that consistently again this year. I did not know what to expect from the Texans' offense coming into the season with the changes they made. I wanted to see them really push the ball down the field. I wanted to see them open it up, not rely on Hopkins as much,

and see what that would do. I was not impressed with the initial kind of effort, with the initial thing, you know, kind of version of themselves they put forward. What are you interested in? and what do you want to see from them schematically to kind of get the most out of Deshaun for the rest of the year? Yeah, I think that their situation was really unique in terms of this limited offseason.

They had like three new key pieces of their team. They just weren't available to practice as much as they needed to throughout the off season, throughout the spring, like all the situations where you'd start building chemistry with guys after a trade like that. But I would love to see them move in a direction where they can stretch the field a little bit. bit more. I know that Cooks was a little banged up going to that game. He's somebody with a

tremendous amount of speed. I saw Will Fuller be really successful really early in terms of being like the guy. But now it's like, how can we continue to stretch the field and then get the ball underneath to these different receivers where Deshaun's making those quick decisions over and over and then the defense gets a little frustrated and then they get to hit him over the top with all the speed that they've recently acquired. I think the important thing with Superstar quarterback, Superstar players, even good teams, is that you have to be a slightly different version of yourself every year. You have to make tiny incremental improvements and be able to answer things that maybe you couldn't previously in your career. So after working with Deshaun in the offseason and kind of again,

having a plan for him, why do you think and what did you see from him that makes him a different quarterback now than he was at the end of last year? I'm going to say this and you're going to probably look at the stats and people are going to think I'm crazy. But that was one of the best games I've ever seen Deshaun play. I say that in terms of when they brought. I'm going to pressure, he had an answer every single time. Like you go back and watch the film, they try to bring a lot of stuff at him. And every time he got the ball of his hand, hit his hot, hit the side. Like he did all the things that you're supposed to do as a quarterback.

So he was playing the mental game, right? If he can play the mental game and then when the plays happen where he gets to use his Superman freakability and then gets to make the big huge splash, super sizzle plays, I think that he's going to really shake the league up in terms of. of his quarterback play. And I think that Russell Wilson has always been like the guy. To me, he's been the guy. And Pat and Deshawn have been trying to catch up to him.

Pat kind of made the leap with the Super Bowl. And I think Deshawn, when he plays like this, is going to make that Russell Wilson leap. It's funny that you say that because the game last year that I thought it was the best I had seen him play was the game where they beat the Chiefs because of how much pressure they were bringing and how much he was getting the ball out. And that was, you know, the one area where if you want more, out of Deshawn Watson.

It was him holding the ball, him taking sacks. He probably shouldn't. And if he can take a step forward there, who the hell knows what they're capable of? So it's interesting that you saw that. I haven't not gone back and watched the All-22 because no one has. Because it's still not available yet. It's 8.12 p.m. on Tuesday. Normally I don't care about that stuff, but it's starting to annoy me.

So I'll be curious to see what it looked like. I think they'll probably be fine. I have so much faith in him, as you know. I mean, he is a truly special player. So I am not at all concerned about what he's going to look like for the rest of the year. Some of these guys, though, can't necessarily say that about. Quincey, thank you so much for doing this. Your insight is always hugely valuable. So appreciate your time and we will definitely be having you back on in the future. I appreciate you having me on. I look forward to

listen to you more on the athletic. Thanks, man. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. It was sure nice to see the teams back out on the gridiron over the weekend. Lucky for us, that was just week one. There's no better place to get in all the action than with Draft Kings, the leader in one-day fantasy sports. To add to this week's excitement, Draft Kings has millions of dollars in total prizes up for grabs. If you haven't tried Draft Kings yet, head to the App Store now because you don't want to miss this. Drafts your lineup now and feel the sweat like never before. Every run, pass and catch means more with Draft Kings.

It's simple. Just pick your lineup, stand to the salary cap, and see how your team stacks up against the competition. Nothing adds to the excitement of watching the game quite like having a shot at millions of dollars in prizes. Draft Kings has paid out billions of dollars to winers since two. 2012, so they know a thing or two about a cold hard cash. Download on the Draft Kings app now and use code Maze, that's my last name. For a limited time, new users can get a free shot at millions of dollars in prizes this week. Don't miss out on the week two action.

Enter code Maze, M-A-Y-S, to get a free shot at millions of dollars in prizes with your first deposit. That's code Maze only at Draft Kings. Make it rain. Minimum $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Draftkings.com for details. So when I was thinking about how I wanted the podcast to go each week and the types of segments that I wanted, I thought about the types of podcasts I've done before. And way back in the day, when I did a podcast with Bill Barnwell at Grantland, which seems like 10,000 years ago now, every midweek show, we would do something called Adopted team.

We'd do a deep dive on one of the teams in the NFL. We'd go back and watch the game and just kind of consider where they were. And when I came over to the athletic, it happened to coincide with working at a place that has 30,000. team writers that do a very good job of covering these teams. And I really wanted to use those people and use their expertise and use their voices. And we're going to start that segment, which we're going to call team visit because I'm terrible at naming segments with my good friend who I have known for a very long time and is the Texans writer at the athletic Aaron Reese. Aaron, how are you, buddy? I'm good. I'm glad to be the first guy. You're the first person. We've known each other for a long time.

You went to Missou. You worked with all the same teachers I did. I remember going back and you were the nerd that was in the newsroom all the time, the same way that I was in the newsroom all the time when I was there. That's where I chose to spend all my free time because I was very cool. Now you do a fantastic job covering the Texans. And I wanted to start with the Texans because I thought that they were the perfect team to go with because they had a primetime game, very visible game, and they had such a not offseason.

And early in the year, it's hard to know what's real and what's not with these teams. But I think that you have to talk about a convergence between what happened during the spring and what we've seen so far. And they're kind of the perfect team for that because of how newsworthy their spring was. So let's start with their season opener against the Chiefs. Obviously, they were all over the place. They got blown out. They got absolutely throttled.

What were your takeaways, just both good and bad, from that opener against Kansas City? Well, you know, I think defensively was about what I expected. Like, I thought the defense was going to be bad. Defense was bad. I didn't think that that was really, there was much to glean on that side of the ball. You know, the pass rush wasn't there, but it was. and get rid of the ball quickly. But for the most part, I didn't really think defense is going to factor into the game.

To me, it's going to come down to whether they could basically compete in a shootout with the chiefs. That was the only way they were going to be at least competitive. And so my biggest takeaway was the fact that the offense just wasn't there, wasn't ready to do that. And, you know, I expected Brandon Cook's to start slow the season just because he was in and out of practice with the quad injury that ultimately made him a game time decision. But the fact that Randall Cobb was really kind of a non-factor until late. I was a bit surprised by he had been available. They obviously put a bunch of money into him. And then, you know, I was interested in what David Johnson was going to do.

And he did look good in this game, but I'm not ready to say he's back or anything. I think the defense was never going to be very good this year. And we still have to wait and see it's just one game. So I want to talk about the structure of the passing game because coming into the week one, that was the aspect of this team I was most interested in watching. They added all of this speed, whether it's, you know, Brandon Cooks, Randall Cobb, you have Kenny Stills. So you have all these burners on the outside that you're replacing DeAndre Hopkins with.

I expected them to kind of stretch. the field vertically and use that speed horizontally, too, whether it's jet sweeps or getting kind of easy completions underneath, it's kind of make corners cover sideline to sideline. But when you look at the offense, it looked a lot like they looked last year, or just under Bill O'Brien in general, and there wasn't much stuff down the field. So when you were thinking about what they would look like schematically with all those burners replacing Hopkins, did Thursday night kind of align with that, or were you a little bit surprised about how they approached things? No, definitely not. I think they were, I want to say they were one for three on, Watson was one

for three on throws, 20-year-arge-more downfield. And the one completion was to Fuller late in the game when kind of junk time didn't really count, in my opinion. You know, so it didn't really line up with what I expected at all. You know, like you said, like Cook's two catches were both. I think one was a screen and one was over the middle, like seven yards downfield. And they were early. They were both really early.

I mean, that was, and he was gone. One series, maybe even back-to-back plays. And then he was totally gone. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, like, I obviously, I think when I rewatched the game, look like the chiefs are playing a lot of two safety, too high safety. So they were trying to take that away from them. But you still would think that they would try to push the ball down field in some ways

or not going to be even more of a factor in the passing game. Maybe the tight ends would get a little more involved. But yeah, it looked to me like kind of a old Texan's offense that just didn't have DeAndre Hopkins. And as a result, it was not as efficient. So if you're not going to have DeAndre Hopkins, you should probably not run that offense because it ran through DeAndre Hopkins. So I want to talk about something that was mentioned on the broadcast.

So the broadcast team, they're talking about their production meetings, talking about having a conversation with Bill O'Brien. And I guess the line that Bill O'Brien tried to sell them, which may be the company line in Houston, is that they traded DeAndre Hopkins because they couldn't afford DeAndre Hopkins. And they could only trade DeAndre Hopkins to a limited number of teams because of how expensive he was going to be. I buy none of this. You can sell the DeAndre Hopkins trade in a lot of different ways. But we didn't have the money I don't think is a lot of. fair way to do it when you consider some of the other moves that this team has made. So when you've kind of interrogated people in the organization, you know, the people you

talk to about the mindset behind that trade and what they were trying to get out of it, what has been communicated to you? Yeah, I mean, like I would say, it is kind of the company line, like you said. I mean, yeah, I think all of them would say that you could not build a team that was so top heavy. The only team in the league that has three guys of capets of 20 plus million is the chiefs with Frank Clark, Chris Jones. and Mahong reaches that point.

And they didn't want to become the other team to do that with Tunsel and Watson and Hopkins. And what O'Brien has said repeatedly is this idea of layers and layers of productive players who can basically find different ways to be teams and that Watson can elevate the play of all these guys and they can stretch the dollar further that's way. They didn't want to become so top-heavy that all the other spots were weaker. I think that in principle it makes some sense. I've talked to, I did a story talking a lot of analytics-focused people about why there is some logic to that. But the problem is, like you said, it's all the other moves around it,

that it don't line up with kind of this one way of thinking because you spent way over spending with other guys, other positions like Randall Cobb or Brandon Cooks or Nick Martin or Zach Gunningham. Okay. Let's talk about this. I understand layers of production and I understand wanting to kind of divvy out the money so you can be deeper and so maybe you can play a little bit differently. But we already established that it's early. It's week one.

Let's just couch everything we say in that. But if they're going to play the same way that, they did and the offense is going to structurally look similar. Then the argument for we want to play a little bit differently, that's why we want to spread the money around, is not going to hold water. Then just look at it practically, okay? If you want to have these smaller cap hits and everything else, Brandon Cooks is set to make $12 million next year.

That may go down because they're going to extend him because you don't trade a second round pick for someone and then just let him walk away. So he's going to make some money. Randall Cobb has a $10.7 million cap, or $10.6 million cap it next year. DeAndre Hopkins had a $12 million cap hit next year before the contract extension he got in Houston or with Arizona. So he was going to cost about the same as what Randall Cobb did. Even when you count the extension, we're going to make decisions and panic trades because you're worried about what DeAndre Hopkins' cap hit is going to look like in 2022. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

And then you consider, like you just said, some of the other moves that they made, no one is making you extends that Cunningham for the more. money that you just gave him. No one is making you extends Nick Martin and give him near the top of the market center contract when he's a decent player but not a great one. In my opinion, the way that I understand this is that when Jack Easterby and Bill O'Brien took over, they consolidated so much power that they were able to kind of start shaping this roster in the way they saw fit and in the image of what they thought a football team should be.

When you consider what Easterby's background is in New England, he's a culture guy, he's somebody that wants people that do things the right way, everything else. And I think that's probably why you send that sort of message with Cunningham and Martin. If you want to build that way, you can absolutely build that way. But don't try to sell me that you're making a better football team by trading DeAndre Hopkins away and pretty much paying the exact same amount of money to Randall Cobb and Brandon Cooks. That just doesn't work for me. Yeah, no, I totally hear what you're saying.

I mean, I think like if the choice is between paying Zach Cunningham, whatever it is, 14.5 million a year or paying DeAndra Hopkins 23 or 25 million year, if it's whatever it is, I think the choice is always going to be to pick DeAndra Hopkins, right, based on everything we know about how football works, where you should be investing your resources. You know, Zach Cunningham was one of the best run defenders in the league last year. I think he made me the best.

He led all defenders in run stop rate, PFS or run stop rate. And the Texans still finish like 24th and run defense DVOA. So I mean, even if you have, and that was with DJ Reader too. So you got, you have these two guys. Yeah, they clearly weren't killing people against the run on Thursday. It was very clear that that's going to probably be an issue this year. Right, exactly. And, you know, if you add up, and, you know, we've talked about Cooks is going to get extended.

Maybe the Caput gets lowered after next season. But if you add up the Cook's Caput for next year with the Randall Cobb, 10 million plus the Cooks 12 billion, the difference between that, those two guys versus just paying Andrew Hopkins in the terms of cap it is basically Brandon Dunn, which is if fuel who we're listening, don't know who Brandon Dunn is, is an interior defensive lineman nose tackle for the Texas. It's negligible. Right. It's negligible. And you can find a way to use the money. So if you're basically saying, well, you want to spread the targets out and you know, and you have Watson raise the level of play for those other guys, I think that that's fine.

There's some logic to it. But there's only logic to it if it then follows through and tracks with all the other sort of moves they make, which it doesn't do. And, you know, like we saw on Thursday, they're not playing the way that's going to play with kind of all these different pieces that have spread to Watson win. And this is at the core of my issue with the last 18 months of Texans football and Texans decisions and just kind of what they're trying to sell to everyone. right now as to why they made them.

I don't know what the Texans are. I don't know what they're trying to be. I don't know what the vision is. And we said this on the AFC South preview that we did with Stephen Holder. It might not matter. They might be fine because Watson is so truly great. And he was good again on Thursday. He wasn't the best version of Deshaun Watson,

but he was fine. He was a very good quarterback because that's what he is every single day. But I don't want those moments of greatness and that floor that Watson provides them to overshadow. just kind of the rudderless approach that this organization has taken recently. Even if they can be okay, they should be so much better than that. So if you kind of had to distill, beyond just the wide receiver kind of collaboration, how all those pieces fit together, the overall organizational vision for what Bill O'Brien

wants his tenure to be, how would you try to articulate it? Well, I mean, the biggest thing is you see it in the way that he describes all these players and even in like the hype videos they put out when they acquire guys and they sign to extension, they always use this tagline, dependable, tough, smart. And it sounds kind of corny. And it's, but I think that it's really kind of the way they seem to operate. They basically want guys who they want to reward guys that they think are going to show up, no nonsense, provide them with a certain baseline level of strong play and be reliable players.

And have all those guys basically have their floor, have Watson leaning away with all of it. I think in principle it makes some sense, but based on everything you kind of know about the way a football team is structured where you should be allocating your resources, you better off saying, like, let's take the rocket ship quarterback that you have and pair him with the best receiver possible and make the most efficient passing game possible. And I don't think that's the position they're really putting themselves in. This is an important question.

I think it's really telling in terms of how they've built the roster. Who is like the ascending player on this team? Who is the young guy that by seasons at, is going to be a building block player for them that maybe we're not talking about enough right now. Can you name me three that are even candidates? That's a really interesting question. Okay, so I would say on defense,

you can say Justin Reed at safety. He's a good player. That's fine, but I think he's decent already. I think that he's almost a known quantity. I don't even know if he fits in that category, but continue. He's in his third year. Right, right. If we want to say Justin Reed is to establish, that's fine.

Okay, so then Lonnie Johnson, who is a corner who is very iffy had a really rough. By the way, he better be. He also, yes, he also didn't play in the first half of the Chiefs game. They went with Vernon Hargraves on the outside of him. So he is. So a guy that can't get on the field is on your wrist. Continue.

Jacob Martin, who they got in the clowny trade, who is who is legit productive when he plays, but he's undersized. He's a rotational pass thruster. So he's not a, you know, he's not, he's not going to play. He's not going to play only, he's only going to play so much. Ross Black, like, I guess, who they drafted in the same. second round, but, you know, he's a rookie. He just played one game. You don't really don't have half of them. And then on offense, I would say the kind of unproven guy who could be

something is Jordan Aiken's tight end, but he's also in his third year. And he's also 29 because he played baseball first. So like, it's so I don't, I mean, but that's, that is what it is. And the thing is, when people talk about this, uh, I get a lot of fans that hit me up or comment of my stories, like, very negatively, like, all this team's going to suck, whatever. I don't think this team is going to suck. I don't think the 2020 Texans are going to suck. there's a lot of talent still in this team. The real issue, right, is that the bills are going to come do later when Watson becomes more expensive, when Tunsel becomes more expensive.

They don't have a first or second round pick this year. You know, and I don't think that suddenly Bill O'Brien is going to stop becoming this guy who wants to trade known quantities or sorry, trade for known quantities. I think that he believes in that. He values that and says that like the sexiness of the unknown, I would rather take two years of a guy on a rookie contract and know what he is instead. And I get it. But at some point, if you just keep hunting further down and down, like the issues build

on themselves, you know? That's exactly right. And I think that the lack of draft picks is what lends did this. When you trade away picks consistently, and not only when you trade away picks, but when you're paying a premium for stopgap level free agents like Randall Cobb, or paying a premium for even your own in-house players that probably wouldn't be making this much if they hit the open market like Zach Cunningham or Nick Martin, it starts to add up. So you have a lack of resources on the draft side because you keep trading it away for

known quantities. And you keep paying guys and ignoring the market for what they're worth, whether it's Laramette Tunsell. Waiting to pay Larry Mitt Tunsell, that's not fine in its own. But when you consistently do this stuff, it's eventually going to add up. So they really don't have an avenue to surprise you in any way. Their ceiling is if all the guys that we know about play at the level we think they are, and even that isn't that scary.

That's what they've done. They filled so many positions with fine players that we already know what they are because they're either aging or have a low ceiling just in general. And there's just nowhere to go. There's nowhere to go from where they are now and it's only going to get more expensive. And that's what concerns me. A lack of understanding of both the market and just a lack of patience overall and really wanting everything now and trading third round picks for Gary and Conley, all that stuff. It just depresses what you can be because you're not giving yourself dice rolls on young players. There's very little potential on this team,

and that to me really limits what they can be next year, the year after, and just for the rest of Watson's tenure. Yeah, and I think, you know, you mentioned Connolly. I think he's a good guy to highlight in terms of discussing kind of the issues with the setup. So Conley, they traded a third round pick for, right? And then they didn't pick up his fifth year option. And so he's only, they traded a third round pick for a guy that they're going to get a season and a half out of him. He's starting the year on IR, so we'll see when he comes back.

They do expect him to come back eventually. But so you had O'Brien, who's the, the GM and also the coach trading a third round pick basically to fill an immediate hole at corner because they needed somebody last year, even when probably someone whose job is to look more forward thinking is saying this team is not a cornerback away from contending for the Super Bowl and that third round pick will probably better use potentially getting really good value so that when you're a really expensive quarterback and a really expensive left tackle, you could still afford to pay DeAndre Hopkins.

This is exactly why you have a GM and a head coach and they're not the same person. Because their interests are often at odds and it's really important to have the those competing interests in the same building because they check one another. And when you have somebody who wants everything right now making the decisions in the spot of someone that should be thinking about the long-term health of the team and he's the one making those decisions, I think that's how you get into the position that they are. And I don't want to, again, I think you're right. The 2020 version, they could be fine.

I think the offense will look a lot better than it did on Thursday night. I mean, Zach Fulton is going to be blocking Chris Jones every day. When you're having Zach's Fulton block Chris Jones one-on-one, I compared it like, it's, You ask my brother to do heart surgery. Like, if he fails, it's not his fault. You asked him to do it. You shouldn't expect a different result. But overall, I do think the offense will be better.

I just am truly concerned about the direction of everything. Also, the Duke Johnson trade is another one to throw in there. I always forget that. They traded him for a third round pick, which let's not forget this. Every single time I'm having this discussion about the Texans, I always forget one or two things. But that's the thing. It's just that they're feeling so depressed because of the decision that they've made. And I'm really concerned about just the overall potential that this franchise has.

And you have done nothing to change my mind. I'm sorry. Yeah. I think that's all fair. You know, I don't know. I'm not really sure kind of what the, what the hope for if you're a Texans fan is other than basically betting that Watson can

ascend to another level, right? I mean, I don't know. How far can he go? Right, right. Unless he then becomes Patrick Mahomes, basically. That's kind of the only, that's kind of the only thing you're better. on. Yeah. And it's also, it's very interesting, like what happens to this defense after they lose JJ Y. If, you know, how much longer does J.J.J.W. have. And if you, if this is his last year,

or next year, it's the last year, whatever, like, what's next for them? How do they find the past rushing? How do they build a defense around someone else when they don't have any picks to do so? Yeah. It's just, again, they're stuck in this spot and there just aren't many avenues out. You know, when you have teams that feel like they're in a rut, you need something that's going to take you out of it. And whether that's a group of young players or whether that's maybe you go out and sign somebody or you have draft picks that you're excited about. They don't have any draft picks. They've run out of money. And they've traded away so many draft picks over the last couple years that there are no players on this team that you expect to take a step forward.

So what we see from the Texans is probably what we're going to see. And that's just not true for so many other really good teams around the league where there's room for them to grow. The Texans, they've really kind of put themselves into this box that just doesn't let them flourish at all. And I think that's a problem for Watson. I think it's a problem for them. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, I think a lot of fans seem to only care or to ask me when Bill O'Brien's going to be gone. But one, I don't think that would even happen this year, barring total disaster just because of the nature of the season and the fact that he was just given all the latitude to make all these moves. But also, I think, you know, he has a quarterback who,

like we've said, is going to give them such a high floor that with the sort of management that is ownership of this franchise who Cal McNair has been very hands-off since taking over for his dad hasn't had a single press conference and has Ryan latitude to do all these things. What would be the indication that that guy is now going to step in and say this isn't good

enough if Deshawn Watson can continue to lead them to 9-10-win season? They've only ceded more power to Bill O'Brien in the last year. It's not as if he's losing control. His grasp on this entire process and this entire organization has only gotten stronger.

Yeah, I don't know, man. I didn't mean to have you on to, like, complain about the Texans for 20 minutes, but I do think it's telling that someone who thinks about these decisions and thinks about the direction and how they're trying to build this all the time has trouble putting the pieces together and clearly articulating what that vision is. Because if they can't articulate it, I don't know how you would.

No, yeah, exactly. You're right. The only thing I can tell you is to look out for 29-year-old Jordanikins. Honestly, though, if there's one takeaway that's a positive from this, I am excited about Jordan Aiken's. He looked good, yeah. He's been hurt. He hasn't really been a part of the offense overall.

I think that if they're going to need an underneath reliable option with Hopkins gone, then they can probably go to him a little bit. And that's fine. He is an exciting player, but you probably need more than one exciting 29-year-old tight end if you're going to try to compete with the Chiefs every single year. Yeah, no, absolutely. The only saving grace the Texans have is that they have the best quarterback in the division. But, you know, if that eventually changes at some point in the lifetime of Deshaun

Watson's career and Bill O'Brien is still the coach, then, you know, the outlaw gets much bleaker. I don't think we should be sitting here resting on having the best quarterback in the division. It's just too easy and it's an out that they just do not deserve right now. All right. Aaron Reese, thank you so much for doing this, buddy. I really appreciate it. Sorry, I was such a downer, but your insight is valuable. So thank you very much. Yeah, thanks for having me.

All right, bud. Thank you. Before we move on, let's hear from one of our sponsors. This is the Athletics. Shield Capadia here to tell you about liquid eye. Nobody likes to feel dehydrated. Maybe you get a little bit of a headache, dry mouth. You just don't feel like yourself. But believe it or not, dehydration still occurs daily in three out of four people. With liquid IV, you have the fastest, most efficient way to stay hydrated. Each serving helps you get as much hydration as two to three bottles of water. Maybe you use it after a really intense workout. Maybe you went out socially distanced with friends and had a couple extra beers the night before. That's where liquid IV comes in. It is healthier than those sugary sports. no artificial flavors or preservatives, and less sugar than an apple.

Plus, it contains five essential vitamins, more vitamin C than an orange, and as much potassium as a banana. And Liquid IV is on a mission to change the world. Liquid IV is donating 3.7 million servings in response to COVID-19. Products are being donated to hospitals, first responders, food banks, veterans, and active military. Liquid IV is available nationwide at Costco and Target, or you can get 25% off when you go to Liquidiv.com and use code athletic at checkout. That's 25% off anything you order when you use promo code athletic at Liquidiv.com. Get better hydration today at Liquidiv.com promo code athletic. So for our next segment here, when I was thinking about the show, I wanted to kind of really communicate and

portray what I read about football every week and the way that I think about it and where I learn. and stuff. And one of those things every single week, the person, one of the people that consistently teaches me about football is the athletic zone Ted win. So when I took this job, I really wanted to kind of bring Ted on each week to channel that into some podcast form, into his own segment to really kind of communicate some of the cooler stuff we see on film every week. He does a great job of pinpointing stuff and then kind of articulating why it's important,

why it matters, and why you should be interested in it. So every week, Ted is going to come on, and he is joining us right now. Ted, how are you doing, buddy? I'm doing well. Congratulations on the podcast. I'm so happy that we're co-workers now. It's great. It's great.

You and I have known each other for a while. We had dinner last year during Raiders training camp, which one of the reasons I was really bummed about camps not happening this year is it didn't give me an excuse to go to Napa. It's one of my favorite things every year. Just because, I mean, there are a few better, for a few more beautiful places in the world, which makes what's happening now, you know, kind of even more tragic, the fact that it's so gorgeous up there, but also just the food. And the food scene there is incredible.

I mean, some of the best restaurants in the country. So it's one of my favorite places to eat. And beyond the passion that you and I both bring to food, we bring the same sort of passion to nerdy football stuff. And that is what we're going to talk about today. So each week, we're going to pick a handful of plays. We're going to talk about them. And then I will be putting this set of plays on Twitter, but we're going to try to find a place

for these to live. So everyone that listens to this. this can kind of go back and watch them later. So let's dig into this week's batch. And where do you want to start? Let's start with the Ravens and the Lamar Jackson touchdown right before the first half ends. And I'm a feeling that we're going to be talking about Lamar Jackson a lot on this segment. You think so?

Yeah. I mean, we were just talking about before we came on. But man, he was so impressive on Sunday with his ball placement and his ability to make plays outside of structure as well as inch. structure. He looks like he's taking a next step as a quarterback, and that's scary. It was unbelievable. And last year, he did such a good job playing within the confines of that offense, and they really set him up to succeed through those confines. But on Sunday, what really jumped out to me beyond the accuracy, which was unbelievable, he just placed so many balls. And I tweeted this earlier today, but his deep throws are really starting to rival Russell

Wilson's to mind, not in terms of quality. You know, there are a lot of good deep ball throwers in the NFL, but there's something so cool about watching how small Russell Wilson is and how the ball just explodes out of his hand and the trajectory he puts on his deep throws. Lamar's kind of similar. He's got that big wind up with the elbow and the ball just explodes out of his hand. So the throw to Marquise was great and there were some other great placement throws, but really jumped out to me as how calm he was under pressure. He was pressured on about half of his dropbacks on Sunday, but he was eight of ten for 98 yards on those dropbacks. I mean, his pressurating was one, four. He was one, which is nuts.

And he was up near the top of the league last year in pass a rating under pressure as well. So when you can't bother him, you're running out of ways to stop him. And I think that's what's really impressive. But let's get back to the throw you're talking about. So it's the end of the second half. They're down near the red zone. And he hits Mark Andrews for a touchdown, kind of on a little bit of a back shoulder throw. He put it outside.

What jumped out to you about that play specifically? Well, first, this play happened right before the half was ending. and the Browns just missed a field goal with 46 seconds left. So the Ravens have the ball in a 31-yard line. They're not going to see any funky defenses to try to stop the zone read. They're going to see a bunch of two deep defenses. Defense is designed to stop the pass. And Lamar Zoroves him down the field easily.

He just completed four passes in a row, a 20-yard pass, 13-yard pass, 16-yard pass, 11-yard pass, drives him to the red zone, has a couple incomplete passes. And then on third and nine is when that play to Mark Andrews happens. They run a four vertical concept. The Browns try to disguise their defense like they're in a one deep and they drop into a two deep defense. And they run my favorite play, four verticals in the red zone. Mark Andrew is the number three receiver.

He's running the kind of crosser seam. And the safety, Carl Joseph, right on top of that seam. So technically, Mark Andrews is not open. but when Lamar Jackson threw the ball, he threw him open and threw a back shoulder seam, which is one of my favorite types of passes if you completed. And Lamar did it. And it was just perfect ball placement, threw him open. That's the kind of stuff that Drew Briggs does.

So it's just scary if Lamar Jackson has developed into this type of passer that can throw guys open routinely. And he did that on Sunday. Why do you like fourverts in the red zone? Because it feels to me like if you're going to try to be a team that likes to stretch the field vertically and that's what you want to do. That play is designed to kind of push defenses down the field. But when it compresses down near the red zone, why does that play work? Well, it works in a red zone if you have a quarterback that is able to throw guys open because you know, you could hit a back

shoulder type of pass on outsize as well as it seems. And, you know, that crosser, even though space is compressed, if you are accurate enough, you can hit that number three crosser too. So it's not necessarily my favorite play in the red zone, but it's just one of my favorite concepts overall is a call. Gotcha. Okay. So we started with offense. Let's get to defense. I know you want to talk about the C.J. Henderson pick at the beginning of the second quarter for the Jaguars against the Colts. What jumped out to you about that play? It's interesting because the Jaguars defensive coordinator, Todd Walsh, is a Seattle guy. And, you know, as we know, there's a lot of Seattle guys floating around the league and they run that cover three type of defense and their signature is just being a really

simple defense that allows players to execute. But in that interception, they ran a really funky coverage and Frank Wright said after the game that they just weren't expecting it because they don't see this kind of stuff on film from Todd Wasser or any of those Seattle discipline guys. And I think it's just interesting as, you know, these Seattle guys kind of move away from the Seattle offense. It just kind of happens organically. And this could be a sign that maybe Todd Washington is going to eventually, you know, kind of put his own spin on this defense. And, you know, Philip Rivers didn't expect it. Frank Wright said that he kind of called the play on the wrong side. He called it to the boundary instead of the field. And which allowed this coverage to be

called and for it to happen. So typically when you see two man, which is man-of-man coverage with two deep safeties, you want to hit an outside breaking route because those corners are going to play with inside leverage. So that's a good answer against two-man. And that's what the Colts called against the Jaguars in that situation. They want to hit an out-rout against two-man. But the cover, though, the reason why the coverage is tricky because it looks just like two-man. The corners are going to man-turn on the outside. But then they're going to, but, but, in this type of coverage was five trap. The corner is going to turn around and spin around and actually play it like a cover two.

So Philip Rivers was expecting the corner to kind of just bail out with the fade route instead of playing the out. But he turns around like he's playing man and then flips around. And we're talking about C.J. Henderson and breaks an out route and catches interception. I thought it was this really cool scheme. But also, you know, it kind of shows that Todd Wash is moving away from the Seattle scheme. and it kind of gives you a little bit of concern about Philip Rivers because last year he threw a lot of interceptions too.

He threw two intercepts of Sunday. Are we going to see the same Philip Rivers as we did last season? So it's interesting because, you know, when I watched that play for the first time, as somebody that doesn't understand coverages that much and has to really ask people who have a better handle on it all, that to me was just the guy making a play. He came off of the outside receiver. It's a corner falling off.

But that was schemed up. That's, and that's probably why that play happens. Because when you see it, it looks so organic. but in actuality, that's exactly what they wanted out of that defense. Is there anything that the Jags did on that play that would have given that away? Or is that just kind of the perfect call against what the Colts were trying to do on that play? I think it was the perfect call. And Frank Wright said he called that out route to the boundary,

which made it a little easier for that corner to trap the play as well. Just less space. Yeah, so it was just a perfect call and the perfect situation. And shout out to Coach Vass and James Light on Twitter. They're the ones who taught me about that coverage or I wouldn't have known about it either. It's a really tricky, cool coverage, and they just call it at the perfect time.

Is that something where Henderson's skill set lends to being able to make those sort of plays, or could you kind of put any kind of corner in that spot? And he probably would have done it just because it was so schemed up. I think you have to be really patient with, you know, turning like you're playing man coverage before flipping around, and you have to have some change of direction ability and ball skills to be able to drive on that.

ball too. So definitely some skill skills and skill involved with the corner. Okay. Let's keep going here. Let's talk about some stuff that the Patriots did because one of the biggest questions I had coming into this week was what the Patriots offense would look like with Cam Newton. We got a resounding answer from Josh McDaniels and Bill Belichick. They went as hard in one direction as you probably could in week one when you just got a guy

this summer. So the play you wanted to talk about was the touchdown they scored at the beginning. of the second quarter, one of the many red zone rush concepts they used with Cam, they used the little quick motion with the running back out into the flat, they pulled the safety that direction. So they actually had four receivers to that side. And then Cam went naked the other way to the right. What jumped out to you about that play just beyond their ability to kind of manipulate a defense in the red zone? Well, one, I think that, I mean, they were, they were calling quarterback runs on third and four, third and five. So, you know, they, they,

They leaned into this option and offense, you know, hard. And I don't think it's going to look like this moving forward, you know, later down the season, later in the season when Cam just becomes more comfortable in this offense. But it's such a luxury to be able to run these type of plays and get this kind of yardage and production from these plays as Newton is kind of, you know, learning this really complex offense. And the reason why that play jumped out to me in particular is because they ran that exactly. same play when Cam Newton was a Panther in the NFC championship game in 2015 against the Arizona Cardinals in the red zone as well. So they have a running back offset to Cam Newton's right.

They have three receiver trips to the left side. They motion that running back to the left side. So there's four receivers on one side. So you're drawing a defense towards that side. And I don't know if they give Newton the option to throw that bowl. But in high school, I've seen that play ran in college. I've seen that play ran as an RPO where if nobody follows the running back out to the three receiver side, the quarterback would have the option to throw that ball there. Just flip it.

Yeah. Yeah. And they would be outflank because they would have only three defenders there against four receivers. So, yeah. So the safety followed the running back to that side. So that puts one less number to the right side where they actually ran a quarterback sweep. and yeah, they ran a quarterback sweep. The guard pulled, tight end, cracked down at the end,

and got outside for a wide open touchdown. And that's just, you know, what a good running quarterback does. It just he evens out the running numbers. And the Patriots are just so good at executing and blocking, it just made an easy touchdown for Cam. And that's why, you know, the Panthers were such a good Red Zone team for a lot of years with Cam. And people think about the size, you know,

just because he's like a full back back there. but it has nothing to do with that. I mean, it's helpful to be able to kind of churn out those yards, but it's more about a commitment to balancing that math. If you want to stick with having a running quarterback in the red zone, it will consistently give you an advantage. Because as the field shrinks, you have to find ways to create edges for yourself. You don't have as much room to work.

So you have to stretch teams horizontally, which that play did, by sending the running back to the left, and you have to switch the numbers by using your quarterback as a runner. A lot of other teams that don't have Cam Newton could establish this as a strength if they were willing to just do it more often, but teams just aren't willing to do that. So if the Patriots are going to stick by this, they could consistently have an edge in the red zone that's more about a commitment to a vision than it is necessarily about the skill set. It's just that Cam's particular skill set and the way he's built takes it to an entirely different level. Yeah, and as they keep doing this and they commit to it, defenses are going to start throwing funky stuff at him.

And who better than Josh Daniels to create counterplays to those type of defenses as well as the season moves along. So I'm excited to see what McDaniels cooks up with Newton under center. Last one we wanted to talk about a touchdown from Daniel Jones on the Monday night game against the Steelers. Late in the same range, actually, right? the beginning of the second quarter, similar to what all these were, right in the shot area of the field where I like teams taking a shot. I believe it was first down. It was a play action throw to Darius Slate, and it's the exact type of design that I like. What jumped out to you about that one? So it's called when one of the most popular shot plays in the last few years, and this is because, you know, of Sean McVeigh and Calh-Shannahan kind of taken over the league is, it's called a Yankee concept with a condensed,

formation with receivers with a short split and they'll have one receiver run or skinny deep posts and a tight end or another receiver run a deep cross with a heavy play action. And it's really effective, really hard for defense and stop. And you know, you saw all sorts of touchdowns, especially when Sean McVeigh was in Sean McVeigh's first year as the Rams head coach. But then defenses started countering that with an old school technique called the drop kick technique where they'll have middle field safety take the crosser and they'll have the backside corner run and take the post so that's what the Steelers started doing because they were getting

gashed by this play and i like this design a lot by uh jason garrett uh because they ran burner but they had the wide receiver uh is it darius slayton deris laden yeah darius slayton he was instead of being in a compressed formation. He was two yards outside the numbers with a really wide split, which makes it extremely hard for that backside corner to replace the post. So I love that design. And that's exactly what happened. Minka Fitzpatrick, the middle field safety, cut the crosser. So he vacated the middle of the field. And then that backside corner who was Joe Hayden, which is, you know, he's a lot older now, not as fast as he used to be. And he had to go all the way from the backside to outside the numbers on that skinny post and he couldn't do it.

And Daniel Jones has delivered a beautiful, beautiful ball for the touchdown. And yeah, the reason why I like this play is, you know, that was a perfect pass. Like that pass couldn't be more perfect. Dan Jones got a lot of flack last year. And, you know, I like it. I kind of like him. So I think this is a good step in development. I thought he played a good game against the Steelers who dominated the line of scrimmage

until he made that really bad pick in the Reds. zone, but I think Dana Jones has some potential. So I love that you pointed out the split of the receiver because I think that's really telling. You know, when we look at scheme overall, I think that it's misconstrued. People think that teams are running these super unique plays that are so different and like, oh, these masterminds are just drawing up all this stuff. And Cliff Kingsbury is just sitting in a dark room, just ripping off sheet after sheet

with all these plays no one's seen before. That's not how this works. A lot of teams run similar stuff. It's all in the details. It's how are you going to tweak something really small about a particular design to make it a little bit harder on the defense? And that's exactly what that change in split does. If you know they're going to react in a certain way, you find a counter to the way they're trying to defend you. And by widening it out a little bit, you make things easier on the quarterback and harder on the corner.

And it leads to a long touchdown. So credit words, too. You know, the Jason Garrett-Harr was not my favorite. It still was not my favorite. I'm not sure how- jury's still out on the him, though, but it was a nice design for one play. It's a great play, and it really does speak to how much three yards can give you an answer to a response that a defense has had to a particular design.

So I think that that's a really good example and really telling. Ted, thank you so much for doing this. We will be back every week. We'll be continuing to do this. I know I'm going to learn a lot. I just learned a lot in the last 20 minutes. So I appreciate your time, buddy, and I look forward to talking to you next week. Sounds good.

me on. All right. That's our show today. Thank you so much to Quincy Avery. Thank you so much to Aaron Reese and to Ted for coming on. That's the structure of the show we're going to have for you every Wednesday. I'm very excited about it. I think that we're going to hit a ton of fun stuff. We're going to be back tomorrow with Lindsay Jones doing our first preview. We're talking about week Tuesday games, breaking down some of the news. Until then, thank you so much for listening to the athletic football show. Please subscribe. Please rate and review the show on your favorite podcast platform. please subscribe to The Athletic. We have a special offer going right now,

theathletic.com slash football show. But for now, that's all we got. We'll be back tomorrow. Thank you so much for listening to The Athletic Football Show. Talk to you guys soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.