The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 11 recap: The Bills stake their claim to AFC supremacy, the Steelers take control of the AFC North, the Broncos make a statement, and more

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

The Bills-Chiefs rivalry delivered yet again, with the Bills handing the Chiefs their first loss of the season. The Ravens-Steelers rivalry delivered, too, and now the Steelers find themselves in command of the AFC North. Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen dig into those games, plus the Broncos statement win over the Falcons, the befuddling 49ers—as well as the broader picture of the NFC West—Anthony Richardson's triumphant return, and a whole lot more on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.RundownBills make a statement with win over ChiefsBengals and Chargers give us a great one on Sunday nightSteelers defense...You Have My Attention!The Denver Broncos...You Have My Attention!WTF is this 49ers season?Settling for a 46-yard field goal, Matt Eberflus? WTF?!?Anthony Richardson's triumphant returnTua's making plays on the moveThe Jaguars scored first against the Lions...and then the Lions won 52-6Taysom Hill's monster dayWhat Did We Learn Today?Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Brought to you by Thursday Night Football only on Prime Video. I'm Robert Mays. Week 11 is in the books, and man, was it a good one? I dug into all of this week's action with my buddy Derek Classen. Chatted about a huge win for the Buffalo Bills, a statement win for the Buffalo Bills. Chatted about the Steelers' defensive performance against a red-hot Ravens offense that really struggled today. Talks about a great Sunday night game that really grabbed our attention.

dug into what this Niners team has looked like and another disappointing day for them and kind of asked what the hell is going on with this season in general. Talked about the end of that Bears game. Derek wanted to talk about it. I want to make that clear before we dig into it. This was one of his WTF moments.

And then a few other things that really jumped out to us this week. Anthony Richardson, you know, another big day from the Lions and the rest of a great slate of Week 11 action. So let's get to it. Well, Derek, I think you can make an argument that that was the best week of football, that we have gotten so far this season, despite everyone saying last week that the NFL was garbage and losing its fastball. But how you feeling after a wonderful week 11 slate of games?

Fantastic. That felt like not only a great week of NFL football, but like a very heavy week of NFL football, like just a lot of gravity to everything that happened today. It was a really nice change of pace. Very consequential day. That's how I would describe it. We had some shifting around at the top of the AFC potentially. We had some shifting around at the top of the AFC, potentially. We had some shifting around at the top of the AFC North. We had an insane Sunday night football game, which we will get to a little bit later. You know, sometimes the Sunday night game, we're prepping for the show. There's so many things we're trying to juggle. It's like, I'll hit that later in the week. This one, I think, demands our attention in more than one way. And the rest of the show is a little

bit lighter than normal. So we will be talking about that. But we're going to kick things off with the game of the day. We talk about consequential. The game of the day and the game of the week as we previewed it on our Friday show, the Buffalo Bills, hand the game. the Kansas City Chiefs, their first loss of the season, 30 to 21. Bill's now a half game back in the lost column, one game back in the loss column, two KC, giving themselves a potential shot at the one seed, now having a tiebreaker over the chiefs. When we were talking about this game coming into the week, you said that you had a feeling

deep in your soul somewhere that the Buffalo Bills might be the best team in the NFL. What about the way that they played today kind of aligned with the team you thought they might be as we got to the home stretch of the season. I mean, first of all, Josh Allen, man. Like I said, that is one of the two or three guys that can go blow for blow with Patrick Mahomes. And there were a number of points in this game that I'm sure we'll hit to it in certain orders just about what he was able to do with his legs. Some of, I swear, he had like three incredible corner throws in this game. There was one to, you know, Dawson Knox. He hits off of like play action. There's another one to Curtis Samuel right before the half. I mean, he just felt like that was his best throw, his best pitch

today was just some of those corner routes, but he was fantastic for a lot of this day. And then, like, Khalil Shakir, this was, I think when we saw him out of the lineup for a little bit, you could feel some of the uneasiness in the passing offense. With him back now, it's just, I mean, some of the key plays that he made in this game where third and nine late in the game, he's taking a shot to the ribs to catch a pass that really lets them get over the line and let them keep driving down the field. So I just feel now, kind of like I said, Josh Allen is always going to give you the ceiling and give you these explosive plays and give you this, I can win when ever since, and they've got enough options around him now, even with some of them missing, right?

Like Coleman didn't play in this game. Spencer Brown is not playing in this game, but I still feel like they have enough guys around him. And then the defense, I just thought they did a really, really good job against Mahomes, especially with some of their weird man in zone indicators. I thought they did a really good job of this week. So just it's a well-coached team with one of the most explosive quarterbacks in the league. That's about it. We talked about this a little bit coming into the game about how they've been able to really do a lot

of work on underneath completions this year, where it's a little bit. bit less down the field. And I think the Kloos Shakir part of that is the biggest part of that. He's just such a consistent underneath reliable option that I think has provided them with easy completions and big moments throughout this entire season when he's been in the lineup. And today was no exception. And the thing that you pointed out before the game that I think was particularly notable as you look at the way that this unfolded is, is that the chiefs in a way want to be what this bill's offense is, where they can consistently run the ball. But the bills have an explosive element that the Chiefs don't really have.

Today, the Bills had six plays of 20 plus yards. The Chiefs had one. That's the game. If Worthy gets his feet in bounds, right? So Worthy doesn't get that second foot in bounds. That's another one that would have been like a 40-yard catch. But that's still only two, and the Bills finished with six. And you can rattle them all off.

The fourth and two scramble to finish off the game is obviously the most ridiculous. And that truly is, though, when we think about this team and, you know, the Eagles have always been like this, where they have four downs to get it. The Eagles fourth down play is to get one yard. If it's fourth and one for the bills, he can get a 26-yard scramble that can slam the door because of what they do on those high-leverage plays. They put the ball in his hands and they say, we trust you to do the right thing here. And he consistently does when they trust him in those moments.

So that was one of them. The sluggo to Amari Cooper was just like a beautiful throw that was a chunk play. He had the early in the game, the go-ball's on the left sideline to Amari Cooper. So that's kind of what we're talking about combining the past catchers with like Shakir being able to do some of the underneath stuff and then combining that with the explosive element that somebody like Mari Cooper gives you when Kean Coleman gets back. We didn't know what this past catching group would look like coming into the year. And I kind of think it's rounding into form in a really intriguing way when you combine it with very good offensive line play, which they're always going to get when they're healthy and a quarterback who's capable of playing like this. It's just incredibly fun to watch, man. And I think there were kind of two elements to this.

One, obviously, it is that they have a lot more options. Now, and again, some of them were missing in this game. Coleman couldn't play in this game. Kincade did not play in this game. But I think they're starting to figure out how they want to use some of these guys. Like, using Knox is more of just like when we go under a center and want to play action, that's our guy to run some of these cornerouts. That's exactly it.

And that big huge chunk today was out of heavy personnel again. By the way, on that play, did you notice, one, it's in six offensive linemen. Two, they motion Khalil Shakir into the backfield as the fullback. And then they run it. I'm just like, you guys are doing some weird, weird stuff. But even kind of, that was kind of going to be my next point is that some of the coaching and some of the weird stuff they do is cool. But I thought also on the flip side, they kept it simple in the sense that so many of their big plays were just attacking backup cornerback Nazi Johnson. One of them was Cooper getting the big catch down the left side line. The one against cover zero where he hits

Cooper again down the right sideline, kind of lobs up a rainbow for him to go get. That, I think, is also against Johnson. Even Curtis Samuels, I think in the fourth. quarter a touchdown he catches on a shallow in the red zone. Nasi Johnson also kind of gets caught. They're running like mesh and he just gets tripped up when the two runners are kind of going against each other against the grain. So they just did a really good job of finding, you know, the one guy on this chief's defense who maybe doesn't have as much experience in this in this defense and just picking it him all game long. It's a great call. And coming into the game, we didn't mention this in in the previous show, but I thought it was notable. I believe the chiefs are 30th in the league and

success rate out of single high coverages. And they're in. a little bit above average, that closer to the top 10 in split safety coverages, which makes sense because of the identity of this defense, but it also makes sense when you consider the horses they have at corner compared to what they had last year. And Naze Johnson is the guy I specifically had in mind and was I was going to throw that stat out.

And the moment that they hit Amari Cooper on that go ball down the left sideline, I'm like, there it is. Should have mentioned it on the previous show because that is the one area when they don't have help, you can pick on them a little bit. You mentioned the cover zero completion of Mari Cooper. I think that that, to me, tells some of the story of this game. Three snaps of cover zero against Josh Allen in this game.

The three snaps were the Amari Cooper sluggo for a huge chunk game. The touchdown to Curtis Samuel where they don't call Matt Collins for the offensive PI. But even on that play, Alan has to buy time drifting to his right away from pressure in the pocket in order to make that throw. The last one, the last cover zero completion of his three-for-three day, that ripped to Cleo Shakir on third and nine to continue that last drive. for the set up the game winning touchdown. So three times they brought extra bodies and three times the bills were able to gash them on those plays. And the Cooper one on the sluggo specifically, that's a play where it all comes together.

Josh Allen identifies the pressure. He changes the protection and he stands in just long enough to get that chunk. And so everything you wanted to see from this bill's offense, even with a couple of guys out I thought was on display. And they made enough plays on defense. They get to pick early in the game. Bernard finishes off that sack, I believe, on the second drive where he's, He's the spy.

I just thought so many things about the plan for this Bill's team on defense to deal with this specific version of the chiefs that doesn't have as many threats as you wanted to have. And it's really about containing Mahomes first and foremost. I think their game plan was tilted toward that. And I think that they were able to execute it at a pretty high level for the most part. I thought they really did. And like they played honestly more man coverage than I thought that we were going to get from this game. Because usually you don't want to do that against Mahomes. But I think they realized, it was like 40-ish percent, which is outside of their person.

personality typically. Exactly. They're a zone, you know, and they blitz more now than they did maybe two, three years ago, but they're very much a zone team. And so for them to play as much man as they did, and you know, Mahomes got him a couple of times. Like some of his best throws were the deep over he hits to Worthy, which I was surprised he caught that in between two defenders and actually held onto that ball when he got smacked. He hits another one, the Watson against Taryn Johnson against man coverage. So like Mahomes got a couple, but for the most part, they really closed a lot of these windows. And then I think really on top of just the man coverage, some of what they did with their like there were certain snaps where chiefs would motion and they would run with it and then they'd break into zone.

And then there, I noticed there were a couple where they wouldn't run with it and then they would just roll the safety down late and they would end up playing, man. I was like, it was just always like it was just always a little something like once the drive that they would they would piss something off on the chiefs. And I was like, man, it's just good coaching. And that's kind of what we said about McDermott, right? Like they don't have all their guys right now. They don't have that many stars. But they're going to find ways to just make it really, really annoying for you as an offense. A couple of the guys we shouted out coming into the.

game, just players that are playing at a super high level for them that may not be household names for non-bills fans, but are really driving this for Buffalo. Greg Rousseau had his share of moments again in this game. He had a pressure on second and 10, and then I believe he got home on when they were in a rush three on a third and 10, I think on the same drive. He doesn't finish it off. Fond Miller does, but the pressure was Rousseau's to get to that sack that ended up torpedoing the drive. And then Terrell Bernard, you know, he had that sack and then he has that pick late in the game. So these guys that aren't necessarily superstars outside of the Western New York area, but have been playing at a very high level tonight, they had their moments in what was essentially a nationally televised

game against a team that was undefeated coming into the game. Yeah. And the last one, I'll shout out really quick. Christian Benford, he's been truly one of the best corners in the league this year. And he had a huge breakup against DeAndre Hopkins late in the game. So shout out to him as well. You feel any differently about the Chiefs after this game? Or do you feel like this is the sort of game that was always going to be coming when you're

living on the edge in the way that this. Kansas City team was for the most part. I think that's it, right? Like, we knew that this team was they were playing a ton of one score games. They were kind of getting lucky with some of the ways that they were going to win. And obviously, they're a great team by just being in a lot of these games. But I mean, like I said, coming into the week, I thought the bills were the best team in football. And to lose, you know, a nine point game to, you know, to me, what is the best team in football? It's like, they're still very much in that top three or four team tier that I would have had them in coming into this. And so to lose this game where you still gave the, the bills a run.

I don't really feel any differently about the Chiefs. I think they'll still be one of the ones at the end of the road. I will say, there was a team in the NFC that scored 52 points against the NFL team today and just destroyed someone else. We can save that discussion for a different time. But I do think it's worth revisiting before we move on, just where the bills sit in the AFC hierarchy, and how surprising it is based on the conversations we were having about them coming into the year. Because this really did feel like a soft reset year for the bills. And I don't say that because they moved on from all of this high-name talent and big-name talent.

A lot of those guys were aging. They were hurt a lot. I don't think that was the biggest change that this team made. I just thought that there were some unproven players and some youth at a couple position groups, and I just wasn't sure how it would go. I wasn't sure how it would go with the past catchers because of how unproven that group was. I wasn't sure how it would go with safety because you're dropping in to more Hamlin there as a full-time starter. Just so many questions.

really entire rooms on their depth chart. And it just hasn't seemed to matter because of the quality of the organization, which we've talked about all season, just the fact that this really is a staff and a building that has consistently shown an ability to get the most out of the guys that they put out there. And two, when your offense is built on a really good offensive line and a superstar quarterback, it's the same formula the Chiefs followed last year, where you can kind of figure it out with the past catching groups

because you're so strong elsewhere. And I don't think I gave the chiefs that, or excuse me, I don't think I gave the bills the benefit that doubt there the way I probably should have. I thought, you know, this would be a 10-win team. They'll get into the playoffs. And that's okay. You know, sometimes you have to take a small step back when you're in this run of success. It's just the nature of the beast.

You can't be a Super Bowl contender every single year unless you're those top, top, top teams. And they've proven me wrong. Like they are at a different class of team and in a different tier than I think. thought they were going to be coming into the game into the year. I thought that before this game, but I think the performance today and just how complete it was just solidifies that thought. I'm right there with you. I thought with the quarterback and the stability of the coaching, I was like, you know what? The floor is going to be really high. Like you said, 10 wins, they'll get into the playoffs. I don't think we'll have to sweat that much. It's just,

what are they going to be when they get to the playoffs? Are they really going to have enough firepower outside of the quarterback? Is like you said, the safety room, I think it was a huge, huge question mark for me. And then even the pass rush. I think they've needed some of these young guys does worry me, by the way. A little bit, but I think it is better than I thought it might be. It's still better than I thought it was coming into the season. I thought they would be a little bit lower coming into the year. So I feel better about pretty much every single part of the roster than I did in September

or whatever, which I think is just, again, a testament to how good this quarterback is, how good the coach is. Yeah, absolutely. All right, let's get to a bunch of other really good performances today. It's time for you have my attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. Let's start with a Sunday night game.

Everything about that Sunday night game. You have my attention. I thought it was going to be a ridiculous blowout. At halftime, Mrs. Stark was talking to Zach Taylor. And she was asking him what needed to go better in the second half. And he's like, we just need one stop. And I'm kind of like, sure, Zach. Sure, sure.

You guys just need one stop and that it's going to be fine. And then somehow the Bengals crawl all the way back into this game. And then in what has become pretty typical fashion for them, have two excruciating mistakes late in the game, they miss two field goals, give up two chunk plays to Ladd Mokke, and suddenly the game is over, and suddenly, on a more serious note, the Bengal season may be over. That's what I was actually going to say in my head, as you were talking, I was like, in every game, it just feels like no matter what, Joe Burrow, T. Higgins, Jamar Chase are never dead. But over the course of the season, they might be dead. Like, they really don't have any more games to drop at this point, and they've got some really tough ones. they have not played the Pittsburgh Steelers yet.

And the Pittsburgh Steelers just took control of the division against the Baltimore Ravens in a relatively impressive game. Like this is just, I don't know, I'm starting to get a little bit worried about the Bengals. And like, it's kind of unfortunate because I still do think this is a good team. And I think you even saw over the course of the second half, this defense, even though they're not very talented, Anerumo every now and then can just start to like he finds the right pitches. And I think they really did start to do that in like pressure wise on Justin Herbert in the second

have. It's just a matter of do you always have the talent to get away with it? So it's just unfortunate that we're going to get to a point where this trio on offense and this defensive coordinator are pretty much on the brink of their season being over. I don't know what the path forward looks like at this point. They're four and seven, all right? And the Broncos are now six and five. They play the Broncos. So if you can get a flip there, that's going to be important. But realistically, the Broncos are six and five. What do you think is an expected end to this season over those final seven weeks for the Broncos. Like three and two would probably make sense, right?

I don't think you can necessarily expect the Broncos to have a worse finish than nine and seven considering what they look like right now. No, because they're an ascending team. Like they're only getting better. Exactly. That's the biggest problem for the Bengals right now. The Bengals have kind of just been this team for the most part of the year and just lost some unlucky ones early.

The Broncos won some lucky games early, but are now just getting better as a football team. And I think that makes the argument for Cincinnati harder. Early in the season, four or five weeks ago, when we already had this sort of picture of the AFC where it felt like the Chargers and the Broncos were going to be those wildcard teams. It's like, all right. You know, the Broncos, how good are the Broncos really? Like the Bengals, if they play at the level we expect, they can probably catch that sort of team. And I think that we've had to kind of change our thinking and change the narrative and the

dialogue around the Broncos. And so that argument is harder to make. But now, to get to 9 and 7, the Bengals have to win out. And I just don't think with a game against the Denver team that's ascending, with two games against the Steelers, that's realistic. So I don't want to totally slam the door because if something crazy happens and they do run the table and the Broncos get a little bit unlucky down the stretch, it's not totally over, but it's pretty much over. And like you said, that's just really, really, that's a difficult pill to swallow. When T. Higgins may be a free agent, when you're in this period where, you know, the defense hasn't been able to keep up its end of the bargain after you put so many high-end draft picks. into it, there's a really good chance that this version of the Bengals is just completely over.

And the next seven weeks of the season don't even matter for a team that has Joe Burrow, T. Higgins, and Jamar Chase on it. The best version of Joe Burrow, by the way, he's never played better football than this. There have been previous seasons where obviously they went to the Super Bowl the one year and he's been in the MVP conversations other times because they had the team success to back it up and that obviously won't be the case this year. but he is playing his best ball, like in the second half, man, some of the plays that he's making outside the pocket where he's just got to make a guy miss. I said it last week, I think, or maybe

two weeks ago, just in terms of his ability to get out of plays in the pocket and get out of arms, it's like watching Andrew Luck. Like, just his ability to shake a guy off is truly, truly special. And he did that like five times in the second half. And they don't even sniff victory in this game if he isn't able to make those plays. And he is really one of only, again, handful of guys who can do that consistently. So again, for him to have some of those plays, and then really for it to get squandered by field goals, like he was putting them in position to score still and it gets squandered by some misfield goals. It's just, it's tough, man. I would like to acknowledge that I do know there are 17 games in an NFL season now. It's 1130. And for some

reason, that's just a hurdle I struggle to get over. Because in my mind, when I'm talking about teams in the way they're going to finish, like 10 and 7 just doesn't seem like a real thing. And still like 9 and 8 doesn't seem like a real thing. In my mind, you can be a 9 and 7 football team. You cannot be a 9 and 8 football team. For whatever reason, I've just failed to grasp that, even though we're several years into this right now. There's something more uniform about an even number that just makes more sense.

Justin Herbert, even if the offense didn't consistently move the ball that well in the second half, had a ridiculous first half. And as we're thinking about this Chargers team and the type of ceiling this Chargers team has, they're not going to play this Bengals offense every single week. So what you saw in the second half, I do think, is a little bit of a blit for a Chargers defense that's been very good for the most part. And you combine that with a Chargers offense that is incomplete, right? There's still no denying that.

But the gear that they can have when Justin Herbert is able to make those three, four, five plays a game, or in this case, three, four, five plays a half. And you combine that with a version of Ladd-McConkey that seems to be ascending here a little bit, it's at least intriguing. I don't know what it actually means in the AFC playoff race against the teams like the chiefs, like the bills that we're talking about at the top. But I'm more interested in what the Chargers look like in a wildcard weekend playoff game now than I was four weeks ago.

That's what I'll say. I want to transplant them to the NFC because they would have like a shot in the NFC, truthfully. I don't think there's that many strong teams. The AFC, there's just too many loaded teams, too many great quarterbacks. I think it'll be tough. But no, just the Herbert man. the seam ball he throws to Will Disley, I think it was either his first or second touchdown.

It was the first one, I think. It's such a difficult throw in between like three defenders, but he just makes it look like he's just thrown on air in practice. Like the way that he just layers it in there, the velocity he gets on it, throws it on a rope, it has this perfect trajectory that just lands in his hands. I mean, he is one of the most special throws. And I actually think that was kind of what was interesting about this game was, I felt like almost all of Herbert's plays were anchored in the pocket, making an awesome deep throw on time, or he was just completely taking off as a scrambler and running.

Whereas Burrow was like kind of in that middle ground where he was doing a lot of like bailing outside of the pocket and then still making a throw. Like I thought it was just such a cool clash of styles. And so for them to basically trade halves where Herbert is insane for one half and then Burroughs insane for the second half, I thought was, it was just incredible. It was so much fun to watch. And then of course, Justin Herbert makes those two throws in the final drive. And I thought that the out and up call to Ladd-McConkie was inspired after the pick, after Mike Hilton almost picks that ball off. And then the throwed on the left sideline to seal the game essentially. He's getting smooth.

That's a beautiful throw. And he's getting smoked, dude. I've said this a little bit. And we'll talk about this more as we shrink down the amount of conversations we're having about all 32 teams and start focusing on the playoff teams over the next six, eight weeks or so, however many games there are in an NFL season. but this version of Justin Herbert, I've said it in jest, but I actually do believe it, whatever they've done to make him 10% more reckless, has unlocked a version of him that we've really never seen before. And that's all I've ever wanted. All I've ever wanted is for Justin Herbert to like get mildly lobotomized and play quarterback. And that's what this season feels like. And it is so beautiful and rewarding for somebody who's always believed in this. We need it. It's so bad. Harbaugh is really, sometimes it's not even about some of the scheme stuff that a coach can get out of a quarterback. It is like you said, just like a good personality clash where you just need Jim Harbaugh and all his craziness, all of his aggressiveness, all of his just in your face attitude. Just get 10% of that out of Herbert. That's all he needs. He has all the talent to make good on it. So I'm just, this has been like a match made in heaven. I think they were even saying on the broadcast like Harbaugh said, I want to retire with Herbert. as my quarterback, which is like, you've been together for like five months and you're already that committed to it. It's just a funny thing to say. But I mean, if Herbert's going to keep

playing like that, yeah. I appreciated the montage that they did on the Sunday night show where I can't remember if it was a pregame or halftime or when it happened. As I'm like prepping for this, whatever's happening to me on the TV, it's not happening in a linear fashion. It's hitting my brain and it exists back there somewhere, but I don't know when shit actually happened. But there was a stretch where they were showing some clips of Herbert or, excuse me, of Harbaugh talking about Jason McCarthy at Michigan. and just heaping praise on J.J. McCarthy and then the way that he's talking about Herbert. And even that pretty adorable mic'd up segment from last week where he's calling him a beast

over and over again on the sideline, we've discussed this over the last year or so, the last two years. Having a staff that truly believes in you, if you're a quarterback, goes a long way. And I do think the previous staff believed in Justin Herbert. I think that they almost believed in Justin Herbert to a fault where they built their offense completely around him without the level of support system that you need to get the most out of a superstar quarterback. But just understanding, if it's not just belief, understanding the right buttons to press to put your quarterback in the right mindset and get the correct personality out of that quarterback,

it's half the battle, man. That is half the battle to getting your NFL team where you want to get it to. And I think that we have seen that to this point in the season with Justin Herbert and Jim Harbaugh, even if there are still a lot of imperfections about. the talent on offense, the approach on offense, all that stuff. The intangible elements are where they need to be. And I know that sounds silly to focus on that so much. But I do think in this case, it really, really matters. It really does. Because like there's just some quarterbacks might not be nationally wired to be just like so, just like have all that type of energy. And so for them to

for Harba to be brought in and do all that for him, I think is awesome. Last thing I want to say, I feel like up to this point, all of us like people who just watch Justin Herbert, watch the Chargers, all of us film heads, were like, we swear he's good even though he's throwing for 170 yards every week. For him to have this game in prime time, it's like, all right, now we don't look so crazy. There's a lot of validation for the Herbert believers and the Herbert supporters here over the last couple years and what they've done this season. Let's get to our next one here. The Pittsburgh Steelers have one hell of a day on defense. Steelers win 18 to 16. They force a performance from Lamar Jackson that we have not seen so far this year.

Lamar finishes, just to throw this number out there, negative 0.24 EPA per dropback for Lamar in this game. On the season, he was at 0.33, which is like historic MVP levels. Negative 0.24 is about what Jacoby Percette was doing as a starter. So that's what the Pittsburgh Steelers did to Lamar Jackson and the Ravens passing game today. What did you see from Pittsburgh's defense that really stood out to you and allowed them to do this? You know, it's funny, we came into the game. you know, because obviously the Steelers played Washington the week before in Jane Daniels, who athletically is pretty similar to Lamar Jackson.

It was like, man, you know, they blitzed him a lot and they played a lot of band coverage. I don't know if you want to do that against Lamar Jackson because he's just been so much better this year. The Steelers kind of did that. They actually threw a decent amount of pressure at Lamar Jackson. And I thought they did a really good job of keeping him in the pocket and not letting him get outside as a scrambler. And then when he did, they just did a really good job of hawking him down.

And I think one thing I want to watch more on the film because it's something. sometimes it's hard to see on the broadcast. I just felt anytime Lamar did get outside of the pocket, there just must have been nothing there. Because like every time he was outside the pocket, he just looked so unsure of what he was seeing. And so they must have just been doing a really, really good job on the back end of staying disciplined, not getting too greedy trying to chase him or the wrong guys trying to chase him and really, really staying to guys. So I just think they did an incredible job in that sense. And then just a handful of key, key players stepped up like that two-pointer at the end, the Ravens are trying to run, like they jet motion a guy from the left to the right

and then they're trying to run like a quarterback sweep to the left. Nick Herbig just murders Nelson Aglore who's trying to block him down so the pullers can get around. He runs Agalore and himself into the pullers so the pullers can't get around. There's nobody in front of Lamar Jackson. Like the play is the place just over. And so for them to play the game that they did and then for a guy Nick Herbig who's had a good year, but he's their third, fourth edge rusher for him to step up and have a big play at the end. It's just, so it's the Steelers.

That's what this version of the Steelers can do to you, man. He forces the fumble on the first drive. He's the one that forced the fumble under Eric Henry. Yes, yes, he did. So Nick Herbig has his several moments in this game. And with Alex Highsmith out, his performance is even more important.

And I think that's, that was to me one of the more impressive things about watching the Steelers today. There was a play later in the game. And I want to get this right. But I believe Pierre, number 42, comes in, in like the three-play stretch where Joey Porter gets hurt. and there's a play where the Ravens sent a jet motion from right to left.

And Pierre's, this is his first play in the game. And he's chasing the guy across the formation. And they run a play where there's the jet motion goes on a little rail route and then they send another vertical up that same side. So they're trying to take advantage of the corner to that side. And Pierre complete, like perfectly communicates and passes it off on that play. It's his first play in the game, I'm pretty sure. And so that, that to me is, it stands out so much about the Steelers team is that they've been

able to get so much out of whoever they're putting in there. If Nick Herbic is in there for Alex Highsmith, great. If Pierre's got to come in there for one play because Joey Porter got banged up, great. And there wasn't anything crazy that the Steelers did game plan-wise in this game. Going back and watching it, looking at the numbers. The stat that I think is the most telling from this performance, Lamar Jackson in this game, was five of 12 for 65 yards when the Steelers are playing cover three. It's nothing crazy.

So far this year, Lamar is fifth in the NFL and EPA per dropback. against cover three. So it's not just the structure of what you're doing. It's how cohesive it feels when you're doing it. And when the Steelers were in those three deep looks, the amount of depth that the flat defenders were getting and how much they were squeezing things down the field and taking away some of those chunk shots that the Ravens have been hitting all year, that's what really jumped out to me. They were essentially daring them to check it down. And that's not the way that the Ravens want to play. They want to get those huge chunk plays if you're going to play a single high zone coverage against them, and the Steelers were consistently taking them away

throughout this entire game. And then they complimented that by playing really, really well in man on hard downs. They tried to hit Joey Porter on a couple of slot fades and trying to think, all right, this is a guy who wants to play against the boundary. We can get a matchup with Zay or somebody like that and get him in space. That's a matchup we like. That was not a matchup they could take advantage of today. To sort of squeeze things in zone and then to win your one-on-ones when you had to play

man. They did that throughout this entire game and I just thought it was such an impressive performance. That's a really good point too about the just the way that they were squeezing space and zone. I remember there's a second and 11 seam route that Lamar kind of forces to Mark Andrews. Like it's not really open. And it's one of those ones that like it's open if you're Matthew Stafford and, and you know, every now and then you can make the throw. But it's not really open. And Lamar kind of skies it. If you look around at the rest of the play, like he's got two guys who were open underneath and Henry out of the backfield who was open for something. And it's only second and 11. Like, it's totally fine to get five yards there and move on. But it just felt like

there were certain instances where Lamar was trying to force it. And when he was, like you said, in some of those three deep zone looks, they just did a really, really good job of squeezing stuff. That play is a perfect example. So what happens on that play, Andrews is on the seam and they ran a rail with Isaiah likely. They were in a too tight onset to that side. So what they're trying to do on that play, thinking they're going to get cover three because the Steelers play a ton of cover three, they're trying to make that outside corner and cover three wrong. You have to pick one of these two verticals, and if you pick the one inside, we're going to hit the rail.

If you pick outside, we're going to hit the seam. The cover three corner to that side sticks on the seam, but Deshawn Elliott gets so much depth that, as the flat defender, he's able to take one of those away. So that just happened consistently, where when they were trying to put one guy in a bind, the rest of the zone coverages, how cohesive it felt, made those throws a little bit tighter and a little bit more difficult throughout this entire game.

Yeah, it was just an incredibly impressive performance. And they also just got some turnovers. Like you mentioned, the Henry Fumble on the first drive, which I think they stood on the broadcast. Henry hasn't lost a fumble in like 500 some odd carries, which obviously suggests he's put a couple on the ground, but just hasn't lost one. So incredibly unlucky for Baltimore there. But then even before the half, the Ravens get the ball inside their own 20. Patrick Queen rips the ball out of Isaiah Lightley's hands. And Pittsburgh gets a free three point. there, which that is literally the difference in the game. The Steelers won this game by two points. So just little stuff like that. And then obviously Peyton Wilson, dude, the interception he get.

I mean, it's not even that bad of a ball. Like, Lamar probably under throws this wheel route to Justice Hill by maybe a yard and a half and he's got to come back for it. But Justice Hill gets the ball in his hands. Like, he's got it. And Peyton Wilson just gets his hand under and just rips it out like as he's going to the ground. It was truly one of the plays of the day. Like, that should be on SportsCenter. It was huge. It swung the game. I mean, it swung the game. I mean, that play and then, like, you mentioned the Queen fumble was a great one. He had that forced fumble, and then he had another just crazy play in space today where they tried to throw an angle route to Justice Hill. And it was a one-yard loss.

To lose yardage on that play is very, very hard to do. But that's how much Patrick Queen has been flying around here over the last couple games. And you know what? I think we probably didn't talk enough about how this was Patrick Queen Revenge game because he was very vocal about like, yeah, man, they didn't give me a contract. And look, Trent and Simpson's been playing okay, and there's some business to this. The Ravens thought they had a contingency. But I get why Patrick Queen was pretty pissed off about it. And yeah, he sure played like it today.

Blip for the Ravens in your mind? Or is this some sort of blueprint thing that other teams could potentially build on as they think about how they want to approach this Ravens at the offense in the back half of the season? I'm kind of probably going to lean towards blip. I just, this, this Steelers team has had the Ravens number for like a few years now, both with and without Lamar Jackson. Like they've just, I think for the past three, four years have just really had a number on this team. So I'm going to lean towards blip until we get some more evidence to because I think the defense actually played a little bit better today.

And I know the Steelers offense isn't like anything insane, but they didn't really hit that many of the moonshots. Like they hit one moonball like I think it was late in the like maybe in the fourth quarter. They only hit one. But otherwise they actually did a decent job defending the deep ball. Steelers didn't get in the end zone today. So like the Ravens defense actually played okay. Offense just, I think sometimes Tomlin is going to do that to a familiar opponent. I also think that the front and what the Steelers bring to the table there, even with high spend not playing, they had a 40% pressure rate in this game. And one of the things that really stood out

about this Ravens passing offense for most of the season is that they have not allowed a lot of pressure despite some of the questions that we've had along the offensive line. But that wasn't the case against what the Steelers came to bring to the table. And I also, I think it was notable, that we're talking about it on the preview show, just the amount of sheer value, the Ravens have gotten out of place where they get five out on the route. And I think the amount of attention that the Ravens were paying to keeping the back in and protection, shipping, they were just devoting more resources to pass protection in this game than they typically do. And I do think that was taking away some of the outlets when they could have potentially checked the ball down or thrown the ball short of the sticks.

That's a really good point because you've brought up before that everyone is shipping T.J. Watt, because he's T.J. Watton, he's one of the best players in the league. That is particularly, has to be the case when you're starting a rookie right tackle in Roger Rosengarten, who has been a little bit up and down in some of these pure past situations. And you watch, like, almost every pure past situation, they're trying to get some help. So that's a really good point.

Let's get to our next one here. The Denver Broncos, with a monster win over an Atlanta Falcons team that is still the leader of the NFC South and is likely going to be a playoff team. And the Broncos absolutely took it to them today. the Denver Broncos after today, you guys have my attention. They really do. Like I said earlier, this team is only getting better. I mean, well, maybe the defense has been great the entire year, so they're not really getting

that much better. They just are what they are and they've been fantastic. But the offense really is starting to find its way. And I think they've been a really good offensive line for the entire year. I just think for maybe the first month, they didn't quite know what their back rotation, what they wanted it to be. I don't think they knew some of the weird levers. they wanted to pull with using some of their personnel.

I think they didn't quite know what Bo Nix was comfortable with. I think for the first month, they kind of threw him into the deep end and said, all right, buddy, you're going to do a lot of deep darkback. You're going to do a lot of Sean Payton's old staples, figure it out. And I think after a month, they were like, all right, let's tone this back a little bit. Let's do some more RPOs. Let's do some more screen game. When we want to take vertical shots, let's really simplify it.

And I think they've done a really, really good job there. And if anything, the past protection's only gotten better. It's easy to say after today when you face the Falcons, who are just a putrid, putrid pass rush. But I do think they did a really good job in that department. So I've been impressed, really, with both sides of the ball. We talked about this coming into the game. The Broncos have arguably in the best pass protecting team in football this season,

if you look at the numbers. And their offensive lines are really good unit. In this game, Bownix was pressured on 14.3% of his dropbacks per next-gen stats. Sounds high. It's a very low number. It honestly sounds higher than you'd expect. Two of four for 16 yards when pressured in this game, when not pressured, 26 of 29 for 291 and 4 touchdowns.

Good God, man. And like, they just, they do such a good job of making it easy for him now. I actually, there's a website run by Ben Baldwin. It's called Running Backs Don't Matter. It's a really good, like, box score type of site that kind of digs into some deeper stats. On an EPA per play basis, Bo Nix had 0.57 EPA per play, which is in the 96 percentile for a game. His A dot was 4.1, which is in the third percentile. This was just the ton of like checking down, quick game screens.

And he was getting it out on time inaccurately, but they just, Falcons could not tackle today. I liked the mix, though, because you had all the touchdowns, three of the four touchdowns. The last one, he hits a crosser that Little Jordan Humphrey takes for a huge score. It's not the biggest throw he made all day. But it was the most impressive from a like difficult. standard of any touchdown he threw in this game. The other three touchdowns, the Nate Atkins one is a beautiful design where they have a motion going to the right, they have a clear out with the back coming left, and then Atkins releases

late, dumps it off to him touchdown. And then there were two wide receiver screens for touchdowns. So that was helpful, but you combine that with Bo Nicks making like four, five, six throws in this game on some of those higher degree of difficulty throws that were extremely impressive. And we can just go through all of them. He rips an in-breaker tovayle on the backside on the first drive. That's the best throw he's made in his career, I think.

That was an awesome, awesome throw. Well, so he had that one. That was the first one where second and 15, he rips it to vealé on the backside. He had several backside rips in this game. I think the one you're talking about was two minutes left in the second quarter, and that was the monster chunk to valet on the bender. Yeah, yeah. Over Richie Grimmie.

It's the bender. Yep, yep, that one. Yes. So, but there were multiple backside inbreakers in-breakers in this game that he gets to in rips. So you combine that with their ability to scheme stuff up. And I think the person that's at the center of this in terms of we're figuring out our personnel, we're figuring out how to get easy completions, the gimmicky uses of Marvin Mims in this game from the wheel route, he had a wheel route where they sent him out of the backfields and he kind of brings the linebacker with him and it

leads to a third down completion for Sutton. And then the scheme touches, it's like they're starting to figure it out. They're starting to understand how they want to deploy these guys, how they want to find their easy completions, how they can win with design a little bit. And they're combining that with a quarterback that I think is playing with a lot of confidence right now and is ripping throws with a lot of confidence. I think that comes from two things. The staff and what they've been able to build and just how good positions they're consistently putting him in. And when you're playing with that sort of pass protection consistently, that breeds confidence. That leads to a level of comfort in the pocket that I think has really allowed him to play at a level that he was not

playing at for the first four, six weeks of the season, which should necessarily be surprising because he's a rookie, but it's still really nice to see this tangible growth from him. Right. I mean, I remember watching that Saints game. What was that maybe five weeks ago now? I was like, they won that game, but I was like, man, and they put up like 30 points, but I was just like, dude, Bo Nix is not playing well. He looks kind of just afraid in the pocket. His footwork was all over the place. It's just not the case now. And like you said, they're giving him really good pass protection, which he was very used to at Oregon. So maybe that's part of what's going on here is he's just really used to just sitting back there and kind of being a point guard.

But he really has gotten a lot more confident. Like I think his, he's just not second guessing anything. Even on those plays where he does have to get outside of the pocket, I think we've seen the past two or three weeks. He's actually been a little bit more. It just feels like he has more of a feel outside of the pocket and is willing to make some of those throws. He had one to Sutton down the right sideline today where he under throws it like a little bit. but you just got to throw the ball up in the air for Cortland Sutton, he can go find it, and he did exactly that. So I do think Bo Nix is playing a lot better right now. And it's, he doesn't even need

to be a, you know, fantastic elite, one of the best rookie quarterbacks we've ever seen. You just need to be good at ball control, have two or three plays a game. The run game's going to do it. It's going to do. Sean Payton's going to somehow scheme open Marvin Mims for a touchdown. And then the defense is going to play their ass off and only allow teams to score like 16 points a game. The fourth and three rip he had a little Jordan Humphrey on the backside. and breaker late in the game too. That was also another really impressive throw. He had half a dozen really impressive plays in this game, but you combine

that with the scheme touches and everything else and a bad defense, and this is the final result. You win 38 to 6 against the playoff team. On the defensive side, what I thought was notable about this game and impressive about the Broncos performance, they did a lot of damage kind of playing against type. We've talked about this team being really man-heavy, blitzing

a lot. They actually had better results today when they played zone and didn't blitz when they played man and blitzed. This Falcons team a really good job against man coverage, rubrouts, bunches, stacks. And so the Broncos throwing some zone changeups at them. And third down specifically, there were some big moments today. That Ellis sack on third and seven, they eject into cover two on that play.

They had two third down snaps where they played cover two with the Falcons likely thinking they were going to get man. And so those little wrinkles from Van Joseph, that's an encouraging thing for me to see from this Broncos team is that we're not just a team that's going to rely on pressure and man coverage. We can do a little bit of everything and we can throw some games plan specific stuff at you if you're a good offense that does one or two things specifically well. And I thought today was a very good example of that. It really was because I think, you know, Vance Joseph, I think in his heart of hearts really does just want to be we're going to throw five or six and play

man coverage. But I think for him to run into a game like this where, you know, I know they only, they didn't, the Falcons didn't score very much in this game and they had a weird game last week against the Saints. But like this is a top 10 offense. This is a really good offense. And for the Broncos to have the game that they did with some of what they were doing with some of these zone coverages, I thought was super impressive. And then also in the run game, this was probably Atlanta's worst game on the ground all season. Like Denver's front just absolutely mauled them. And it kind of makes sense, right? Like, I think I've said in previous weeks that Denver, you can probably run some double teams at them.

You can move them a little bit. But that's just not how Atlanta's built. They're a lighter offensive line. They're a heavy zone team. They're not really built to bully you and move you around. And so Denver was like, all right, we'll start shooting some gaps and beating you that way. And they did. They did a really, really good job of that. And I think that kind of led to, this was a reminder that for as much as I do like the Falcons offense and think they're good, it's a little bit of a fragile build. Like, this is an offense that has to be front running both in terms of the sticks and the scoreboard. And very early in this game, it was evident that neither of those were going to be the case. It's a great call. This Broncos team wants to try to create explosive plays against you in the run game. They want to get TFLs. They want to fuck it up because they are. undersized and they are kind of a chaos creating unit. So you graph that onto a matchup against a zone heavy team and you can get the results

that you saw today. So, you know, we mentioned it when we were talking about the Bengals. Like this Broncos team is an ascending team. They are getting better as the season is going on and it's really encouraging because coming into the year, I wasn't sure what they were. You know, they go out in the 2023 off season. They sign all these offensive linemen. They have the Rust contract.

And I don't really know what the timeline is. This team made a very big bet on Sean Payton to be the adult in the room that could bring them back to legitimacy. We're going to go out and we're going to make a very aggressive play for a proven coach because we want a proven ecosystem infrastructure, whatever term you want to use. And one year in, it's like, all right, I mean, it was fine. The Russ offense was kind of ugly. The offensive line was a strength of the team and probably would be moving forward. The defense obviously had that historically bad first month of the season, rebrand. bounded by the end of the year was playing pretty well, but I still didn't know exactly what to

make of this team coming into the year. And I think in terms of the foundation and sort of the bedrock stuff that you're establishing in year two of a new regime, this is going about as well as you possibly could have hoped coming into a year where they think there were still some pretty big questions about the general direction of everything. I mean, I think 100%, especially too on the offense, like you bring in Sean Payton. And again, you know he doesn't get to full run his offense year one with Russ. And it just seems like everyone there is kind of upset on that side of the ball. And like, you were like, okay, the offensive line is something, but I don't know if it's great. And so for him to, you know, I'm not saying Sean Payton would have drafted Bownex first overall, but for him to at least get a

quarterback that he picked to get another year with the offensive line where, look, Sean Payton's system is not easy. Like a lot of what they do in the run game, they kind of run everything under the sun. So it is very difficult. So for them to get another year there to now have two, three months into the season where everything's starting to come together. Like, yeah, man, this is what you paid for with Sean Faiton. And they're getting what they wanted out of it. All right, guys, before we move on, we're going to take a quick break. What the f***.

The Niners lose to a Seahawks team that has had a lot of trouble with the San Francisco team as of late, 20 to 17. That drops the San Francisco 49ers to 5 and 5 on the season in a ridiculously crowded and absurd NFC West that we will talk about. I don't want to shit on the Niners for this performance necessarily, because I do think the Seahawks are a legitimately solid team. I think that there's an argument to be made that the Seahawks defense after the buy potentially figured some stuff out and might look like a slightly different unit down the stretch, which we can address. My what the fuck here is, what the fuck is this Niners season? Like, what is this?

I just don't know what to make of this team. Because if you look at a lot of the underlying numbers, offensively and defensively, the things that would generally point to how you should feel about a team in the long run, down-to-down success, what do they look like? There are still a lot of things pointing to this Niners team as if not an elite team, then a team that can still be very relevant in the playoff race down the stretch. But as they keep doing this and losing some of these close games and just having this feeling about them where it's like, there's just something missing.

And I don't know exactly how to articulate it. And it all feels a little bit more volatile than it should. and I don't really know what they can rely on. There's just like an ineffable quality that I can't quite put my finger on. And that's why I just don't know what to make of this team and what this season actually means for them. I think each side of the ball, it's a little bit of a different story. On offense, I think I've sort of figured out where I landed on what the problem is. Part of it is that they've just had guys in and out of the lineup.

Obviously, I yuk is not playing now. Debo Sammov and in and out, Kittl didn't play in this game. CMC didn't play for a lot of the season. But all of this kind of factors into the fact that I think when you watch the Niners even last year or like two years ago or really almost at any point in the Shanahan era, you just always felt like they had this fast explosive just somebody could make a play and it could be 60 yards on you in an instant. They just don't have that right now.

There's no speed. There's nothing that's fast. Like their fastest guy relative to their position at the moment is probably Kittle, who again didn't play in this game. But he's, you know, getting older a little bit. Isn't that a problem? Is your most explosive player is your tight end? That's probably a problem.

That's what I'm saying. Even at Hall of Fame tight end, that's probably an issue. Because I don't think Debo Samuel is quite as fast and explosive as he has been. And he's been beat up like a running back at this point. So I kind of get it. Obviously, Iyuk is not playing. Joanne Jennings is awesome on third and six when you just need a guy to post up on a curl route.

But he's not really that explosive player either. CMC, I think really since he's been back has not looked very explosive. And I think that's been a problem for him. And then Jordan Mason, like they've gotten some production. out of him. He ran a 4-5-8 his pro day and he doesn't really rip off the explosive runs. That was the problem before CMC got back. It was like, can CFC give us some of that juice again? And he hasn't really been able to do that. So I just think when you have Shanahan and you have a quarterback in Brock Pretty who like runs the system pretty well, you're always going to

have a high enough floor. I just, they don't have that juice that pop that they used to have in years past. That's such a good observation. And you feel that when you watch them. I was like, give the numbers while you were talking. On the season, there's 17th an explosive play rate, which, you know, it's not a disaster, but it's not the type of team that we're used to seeing the Niners field when, with the amount of star power that they have. And I know those stars have been in it out of the lineup, but the offense does feel markedly different. Today, specifically, 3.5% explosive play rate in this game today, which was the lowest of any team in week 11. It was like half of what the chief did. And so that is what we're talking about.

We're talking about third and 11, getting 11 yards because you're hitting Joanne Jennings at the sticks. And it's like this big bruising sort of offense instead of this explosive high-flying group that we're used to seeing. And I think today was probably the most telling example of that that we've seen all year. And it's funny you say that the chiefs were also down low in that department. And that's kind of how the chief's offense has felt for a lot of these year. It's like they're just getting enough and they're just getting by. But the thing is at the end of the day, you know you always have Mahomes. And this isn't a takeaway from Brock Purdy. he's mostly of been playing well this year, but he's not Patrick Mahomes. Like, you just don't have

that era of inevitability with him. So it's not as okay to play this style of offense. So I think that to me was, you know, today kind of was like the nail in the coffin there in that sense of like why I feel this way about the offense. And I was hoping CMC would fix it. But I think after watching him for two weeks, I just don't know if we're going to get that level explosiveness from him for the rest of this season. Yeah. They just feel like a different unit in terms of the amount of pop the amount of venom that they bring to the table. And today was a great example. And I do think that the way that the Seahawks defense played today, this is a good sign for

them. Because if you're thinking about Seattle in the 2024 season, they're still very much in the mix here. They could win the NFC West. They could be a playoff team. But it's year one of a new regime. For me, it's more important to make sure that you feel good about what the defensive foundation for this team looks like moving forward.

If you're going to hire Mike McDonald, you're going to hire Mike McDonald, you're You can't be a disaster on defense for his entire first season. And they've been up and down. They've dealt with injuries, especially early on in the year. But to see them come out of the by and to see some of the tweaking that we've gotten from them, they cut Terrell Dodson, right? So they move on to Tyrese Knight. That was a huge kind of aggressive move.

But there have been some smaller things than that. Trey Brown is now out of the lineup at corner. He's been kind of moved out. Josh Job is now playing for them on the outside. They had Ty Okada today played 25 snaps as their third safety. He had never played more than snicks snaps in a game on defense this season prior to this game. So you see them tweaking things a little bit. They played 40% man today after not playing much man against the Niners earlier in the season,

even though Purdy had been struggling against man coverage. They blitzed a bunch today. You had a couple really nice moments from Ernest Jones in coverage. So we've seen some just different elements to the Seahawks defense as they've made some of these changes. And that's why I think that it's not that hard to tell yourself a story about this actually being a pretty solid unit in the back half, even though we've seen some really, really low moments from them so far this year. I think all of that is spot on. I also think, too, this was the best game Devin Witherspoon has played this season under Mike

McDonnell. Like he, I think we came into the season super excited about what he can be. And I think it's been kind of up and down. And he's had some good moments, some bad moments. But this today was the game where I was like, okay, he's hitting people the way that he's supposed to. He's covering the way that he's supposed to. I mean, the interception he gets, well, he doesn't actually get it early in the game, but they have Christian McCaffrey out as the number two to the left side and trips, and he's just manned up against him. He tries to-weary. Weird play, by the way. It was. You think that's a good matchup for you, even if it's CMC, it's Devin-Witherspoon. Right. It's a real corner. It's a legitimate man-to-man cover corner. Anyway, Purdy

stares it down the whole way. It's never open because it's a whip route where CMC is going to come back inside after driving to the outside. But Witherspoon and it has inside leverage the entire way. Pretty throws that anyway. Wetherspoon gets a hand in. And I think like Jonathan Hankins catches it, which is another crazy thing about this game. It was Jonathan Hackens, yes. But just for him to finally make that play. And then he had a number of other just like he was fit in the run pretty well today. I was like, okay, if your star player finally is playing this way and then some of the other moves that you said were they're moving personnel around and really starting to get comfortable with who they are, Ernest Jones stepping up in the middle. It's like, okay, we can we can start

to work with this, you know, what we got here as opposed to what we had, you know, a month ago. The defense carried the day for the Seahawks, but that win does not happen without the final drive from Gino and the offense. And that was, again, as somebody who just feels like he's been yelling into the void a little bit about how well Gino Smith has played for a good majority of this season. And again, today, he's under pressure on like 43% of his dropbacks. There's a disgusting pick at one point. We must acknowledge that. But with the game on the line, he makes a couple huge big time throws and then finishes off with his legs in a way that he is capable of doing in the right moments even if we don't see it a ton. So the Seahawks defense was probably the story,

but I will say that Gino also grabbed a little bit of our attention by the way that he finished things off. Who would have thought Gino Smith would have ended a game to say the way Josh Allen did? Similar players. Right. It is nice to see J.S.N. get involved here though. Yeah, and be more of like an explosive element in this passing game and not just the underneath target that he's been a little bit too often over the first game or season and a half of his career. So to get Metcalfe back and then still have this version of JSN who's affecting the game in a bunch of different ways, I do feel pretty good about what that could mean for their passing game down the stretch. And then, you know, the pass protection wasn't great today, but I'll be curious to see against the team that

doesn't have Nick Bosa, who after getting hurt in this game, that was a huge part of why the Seahawks were able to win. But now you get a Blucus back at right tackle. You move Olo and Timmy in at center because Connor Williams retired last week. Right. We haven't even talked about that yet. Something that is, you know, pretty crazy. But there's enough kind of movement and tweaking a personnel on both sides of the ball that I feel like you could make a solid argument that we might get some improved play from the units that had been struggling on the Seattle team and that they might be in the mix in the NFC West, like for real. Yeah, I think that's a good point. I don't know if it will be enough, but it feels like for the most part, a lot of the tinkering they've done has kind of been to a good end.

And I expect that to continue for the next month or so. Before we move on, I'm going to ask you this. And I think I'm going to continue asking this until we have a clearer answer. Right now, it's November, it just turned midnight. So in central time zone. So it's Monday, November 18th. At this exact moment at 12.01 a.m., who do you think is going to win the NFC West? Oh, God.

I mean, it doesn't feel like anyone's losing it. I don't think anyone has a losing record in the division right now. The Cardinals are six and four. All three other teams are five and five. I might just be leaning into what I've seen in the past like two weeks from Kyler Murray, but I'll say the Cardinals. I think their offense might be the most fun unit to watch, so I'll just lean into that. Did what the Rams do today against the Patriots?

Did that change your thinking at all? Or is that something you kind of expected coming into today? That's a Patriots problem that I think we'll get. too later. I'm going to let you answer that question every time we talk about it because I don't have the courage to pick a team right now considering how jumbled all this feels. All right, it's time for our next entry and what the f I'm actually going to let you handle this one for a bunch of different reasons. Okay, the Chicago Bears. So they, they fire Shane Waldron. They actually have a decent game on offense, right? Like Caleb looks like he's kind of normal. He has a great drive, which I'm sure

we'll dive into a little bit deeper in a second, but he gets them into field goal range. So they get a first and 10 on the 30 with 35 seconds left. They run one play. They get like two or three yards, sets up a 46-yard field goal. And then they decide not to run another play. And they just let it run all the way down,

take the timeout with like two seconds left, and then they kick a 46-yarder. It gets blocked. Chicago Bears, what the fuck? Run another play. Get closer. 46 yards. It's not that close for a field goal.

Like, let's think about it. this a little bit more. If it was 26, 36, sure, man. Anybody can make that. Forty-six? You're asking for, you're just not setting yourself up in the right opportunity. I know it was blocked instead of missed, but some of the Packers players came out and said, because he was deeper and it's a 46-yard field goal, the kick has to be lower. And if the kick is lower, we can get a hand on it. And then guess what happened to everybody? They got a hand on it and the game's over. I wanted you to do this because I didn't want people to think that I was just using this podcast that is my professional space for me as a personal therapy outlet. You are the one that wanted to talk about this. I think people are going to realize that I have some sort of therapy thing with Caleb Williams at this point where I'm so frustrated about what's happened that at this point we might both need it. I will say this. I can put myself in Matt Eberflus's shoes there and understand how that happens. Your kicker has been pretty good this year. And you have a young quarterback who has been a huge. It's been a huge. issue of him taking negative plays over the last month or so.

That's not a good argument. I'm sure that's how you arrive at that moment of like, we're going to shut it down, we're going to kick this field goal. Hopefully we walk away with the win. It's still a bad approach to lean on a 46-yard field goal for you to win the game. All of this being said, is the loss frustrating? Absolutely, it's frustrating. They should have won this game.

They've lost 11 straight game to the Packers now. It's a game where the Packers shoot themselves in the foot multiple times. Two Red Zone drives, they come away with no points. and you still somehow lose the game. Still, at the end of the day, it's hard for me to feel that bad about what happened because post-Shane Waldron experience, all that mattered to me over the final eight games of the year,

eight weeks of the year, I still don't know how many weeks there are in a season, is for it to not be an actively detrimental place for Caleb Williams to be in terms of his development. I did not want the next eight games to look like the Patriots game, where you're genuinely scared about what each individual game, the impact it's going to have on him.

So to watch them come out in this game and to see him playing so much faster, so much faster, not just getting rid of the ball quickly, taking off quickly, playing a little bit looser. And that's what you want to see, right? Like, you want to see the process moving quicker. If it's not there, go. You saw that a bunch.

The usage makes so much more sense. get the ball in DJ Moore's hands, get some scheme touches for him, use Keenan Allen on some like quicker outbreakers and some underneath stuff. And some of the throws that Caleb made on that final drive where the fourth down back shoulder ball, the throw to Keenan Allen to get them into field goal range, it's the type of flashes you need to see to hopefully get this turn back in the right direction. Losing, my biggest thing with the loss here isn't about saving your season or being competitive. It's about I want buy-in over the final two months no matter what because I don't want this to turn into a shit show. That to me is really the only reason the loss matters. The most important thing is that the offense is pointed back in the right direction. You just hope it continues going this way.

I really hope it does. And I think him taking off the way that he did signals that to me where it's like they must have clearly said something this week where they're like, dude, we saw the USC tape. We know what you're good at. Go do it. And he did a great job at that today where he was just taking off. And they actually even used him as a design runner a number of times this game. Like they got him on an arc read. I think they converted like a third or fourth and one with him.

That stuff was really impressive. And then that last drive, dude. So he actually on second down on the last drive when they're in their own territory, takes a pretty bad sack and ends up in third and 19. Tough one. Yeah. But then on the third and 19, he ducks under Rishon Gary out of a sack and then finds Roma Dunzee for like 14 or 15.

It's fourth and three hits the back shoulder to Adunzee. and then on first and 10 to get them into field goal range, you actually see him before the snap pull commit back into the formation so they can run like a six, seven man protection, get it blocked up, and he throws out to Keenan Allen, gets them into field goal range. That's the stuff where it's like, man, that's a real, that's franchise quarterback stuff. So like you said, the point of a game like this,

and for the rest of the two months now is to not break him. And for him to just have these flashes like this, check the box today. Good job. J.E. Alexander doesn't really play much in this game, leaves the knee injury that he's been dealing with. So that's something to take into consideration when you think about the Packers' defense. But this is a Bears offense that fired its offensive coordinator last week and looked non-functional against the Patriots. As we think about this Packers team and I'll complete this Packers team and what they're actually capable of, does a game like this concern you? Insofar as I think coming into the season, I thought that they could be a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

and I think certainly at earlier points in the season when I was maybe a little bit more optimistic about when we would get really good Jordan Love again, I thought they would be a contender. I think I'm more putting them in like that second tier where it's like they're still a really good football team. They'll win a lot of games and I do think there's a chance that Jordan Love really comes alive, but they're just not really up there in the tier that I thought, you know, maybe they could be with the Lions. Like I just don't think they're up there anymore. All right, before we finish up the show, we're going to take one more quick break. that? Did you see that? We had to hit a couple just moments, you know, little things. We're not

going to dig into the game full scale, but stuff that jumped out to us over the course of the day. Did you see the game that Anthony Richardson had today? And the moments that Anthony Richardson had today coming back as the cold starter and putting up a huge win against the Jets. I was so happy to see it. And you know what? I was actually a little bit scared at first because for the first kind of quarter, he did not look very comfortable. Like he misses, he like overthrows a little RPO slide route and he missed another route. And I was like, oh, geez. That one.

The slide route is, so on the first drive, he hits Josh Downs on that corner route that he tries to overthrow. Josh Downs makes a beautiful play on it. They get to a third and four down in field goal range. They have an RPO with a slide coming to the left. Kylan Granson is right in front of him and his brain just short circuits and he just chucks it over Kyle and Granson's head. And that happens and I'm like, oh, God. It's happening again.

For every nice moment this passing game has, he does something that just breaks my brain. Yeah, I was very scared. I was like, oh, shit, man. It's like, we're here again and nothing is fixed and none of this two weeks off really did anything. But really after that, I thought he settled in really, really well. And you know what's crazy? I thought AR coming back was going to be like, okay, the run game is going to be really good. And they'll get into some more stuff and he'll be able to be effective there.

and the down to distances will be better. That was not the case. The Jets didn't let them run the ball at all. Like even a lot of their stuff where they were trying to involve Anthony Richardson and used the quarterback, whoever was playing as like the surf defensive end trying to play the mesh exchange did a really good job staying discipline. And everybody else in the box was just killing the Colts offensive lines. So like they did a really good job in the run game.

So AR was kind of forced into a lot of these like real actual passing scenarios. And he just made a number of really impressive throws. game. I think especially like early in the fourth, he had a number of just insane throws. Like he actually has, it started his one of his coolest throws on that drive actually was he's like stiff arming a blitzing defensive back for like 10 yards and gets a throwaway off, which is like, okay, you kept the guy. That's insane. That's like one of the coolest plays the quarterback has made all year. It's a throwaway. So it's hard to sell that to people as like that's super cool. But it is like he keeps a drive alive and keeps the play alive that just has no business.

I tell you right now, Joe Flacco is not keeping that play alive that way and keeping that drive live. He's getting sacked. And then later in the drive, they run like a little rollout to the right. And he just like kind of flicks it off his back foot and whips like a little crosser. And then right after that, he throws a deep over to Alec Pierce to get them into the red zone. Two plays later, this actually was the coolest part to me. They put Josh Downs in the backfield to his left in like a split split gun formation. and he runs a little angle route, AR puts it right on him, touchdown.

What's cool to that about that to me is, on Anthony Richardson's last game before he got benched, he missed that exact throw to downs out of the backfield by like a yard. And I was like, that was one of the ones where I was like, oh, he just doesn't have it right now. So for him to go back to that exact same concept, score a touchdown on it, I was like, yes, that's exactly what we want to see for a guy who had to just take a step back a little bit. And I do think, you know, again, revisiting the thought process behind all of this, I think it really was about just taking a breath, getting settled, and the fact that they had to acknowledge what happened when he pulled himself out of the game just to like save face with the rest of the locker room. And so I do think that this break was probably good for him. I don't think it's causal.

I don't think that's the reason we saw the performance today. But I do think the thinking behind it does track even if there were some things they probably could have handled better in terms of the message. And what we saw today was a quarterback who did look a lot more settled. And some of the throws over the middle of the field, especially off play action, that's what this has to be. This is about him just being able to rip some of those crossers and digs off of play action within this offense. And he was able to do it for like a huge chunk of the game.

He had the one to pierce early in the third quarter. He has another one on a like a crosser with 1122 left in the fourth quarter. Like you said, he finishes off the touchdown. that go ball ripped to Pierce with sauce biting on the out route. That's a beautiful play. He hits the bender to Josh Downs off play action, and then he finishes off that touchdown drive by barreling over a guy to get into the end zone. That was just insane.

Literally just smashing the guy into the end zone. By the way, the play I was thinking of is actually with like 1018 left in the third quarter, he had a guy hanging on him and completed the ball to Josh Downs. That was the play that I was talking about, where he's literally, he's got a guy hanging off of him, and he still somehow manages to get the completion. He is like mid-tackle animation. Like he is halfway to the ground and gets this just completely uncorks his body and gets

the throw off. I'm like, Joe Flacco's not doing that. Hardly any quarterback in the league is doing that. Like that's, those are the plays that it'll keep you, you know, getting by with some of the weird plays that he makes it. Those are the ones you stay for. Caviates about the Jets defense are necessary here. They have been one of the worst defenses in the league by some metrics since Robert Sala got fired.

All that being said, this is what you needed to see. The ball placement, just the big time throws. This is the version of it that you want. He finished 20 of 30 in this game. One of those incompletions hits Michael Pittman in the face with about 30 seconds left in the second quarter. It's another just missile he throws over the middle of the field. And then one was at the end of the half, which is the desperation throw. So even if we chuck those two off of it, we're talking.

talking about like a 20 for 28 type of game where he's consistently making the right plays on time within the structure of the offense and giving you the sort of high variance, high upside play that you need if you're going to run this type of offense. And that was very, very encouraging to see considering how out of sorts and how uncomfortable he looked the last time we saw him on the field. Yeah. And I know we have the caveat about the Jets defense, but I wasn't sure after, you know, the way he was playing that he could do this against any defense. So the fact that he could have this game, still impressive. Let's go to our next one here.

Did you see that Tua made multiple plays, extending plays, and outside of the pocket again today, on top of what he did against the Rams the last time we saw him? I don't think he's ever going to be Josh Allen. I don't think he's ever going to be Lamar Jackson. That's not what we're talking about here. But the ability to do something out of structure when things start to break down was just not a component

of this team previously in previous iterations with him as the quarterback. So to see just that a little bit more often to be able to make two, three plays a game where you're creating something that isn't there, that is a very encouraging sign when you think about how much you've invested in this guy and how much you're going to be relying on him over the next couple years. We made jokes about skinny to it, but there might be something to it. There really might be something to him, you know, losing a little bit away, getting a little bit more free, feeling like he was at Alabama.

because I said before, like when he was at Alabama, again, he was never Josh Allen, but there was a little bit more like bounce to him and being able to make plays outside of the pocket and really outside of his rookie season, which was obviously in turmoil for like 8,000 other reasons. We just haven't really seen that version of him. And so for him to be that guy for now, really two weeks now that, you know, these last two weeks that he's been playing, it is encouraging. And again, I would kind of like to see it probably for more than just two games in a row.

I'm willing to say that two games is perhaps a coincidence. But if this continues over the course of the season with, again, this dolphin season is probably cooked. And so at this point, it's kind of just like, how good do we feel about going into next year? Well, if Tua can keep making these plays for the rest of the season, I might feel a little bit better about them, you know, when we have these conversations next, you know, June, July, all that sort of stuff. They're four and seven. It's a very narrow. It's a very narrow path to getting the wild card, similar to what we talked about with the Bengals, where, you know, this Broncos team that might have seemed vulnerable when they were in that seven seed earlier in the season. season doesn't feel as vulnerable now.

So it's going to be difficult for the dolphins to actually pull this off and turn it all the way around. But like you said, I think signs just that when we move into 2025, do we feel good about what we can accomplish with this core of pieces for maybe really one last run, potentially, with some of the aging guys that they have on that roster before they have to make some pretty tough financial decisions as to his cap pick keeps going up, all that. So if that's where we're at by the end of the season, like 2025, let's get the band back together, one more run. I don't think that's necessarily the worst landing spot for this Dolphins team. Let's get to our next one here. Did you see that the Jags actually scored first and were winning that

game before losing 52 to 6 to the Lions? I actually did. And in the moment, I didn't see that much a rest of this game because I figured it was going to end up a blowout. But I remember very early in that slate looking up at Jaguars 3, Lion Zero and being like, huh, that seems weird. That doesn't seem correct. And then the rest of the game, I think, told us that that was not correct. The amount of just crossing routes that the Lions took for like 30 yards at this game was absolutely insane. And that's not like a criticism of or like, oh, there's just easy buttons all over the place. It's actually like the beautiful part of their offense is that they're able to scheme those up over and over and over again. And I actually love the way that they're using James

and Williams on those. Like getting him in space and getting him into some of those catch and run opportunities is like the way you're trying to deploy him in the offense. I absolutely love that. I actually think it's a really unique, thoughtful way to put him in really good situations. That was actually, there was a James and William sequence. That was actually my favorite part of this game. And they scored 52 points in this game. So there were a lot of things that you could choose from. But early in the second quarter, they have a third and one where they're trying to be aggressive with it because they know they're going to go for it on fourth and one at midfield. So they try to run like a medium kind of, you know, 11, 12,

year crosser to Jameson Williams. Really good coverage. It's a good ball from Jared Gough. He can't quite bring it in. So it's incomplete. They go to fourth and one. They run the ball and converted on fourth and one because they're the lines and that's what they do. But then immediately on the next play, they go back to Jameson Williams on a shallow crosser, get him wide open, you know, completely free. And he just takes it for like 30 yards. And then the next play, Jemir Gibbs takes it for like another 25 yards in a week zone play. I'm like, this team is just so like a third and fourth and one just doesn't matter to them. They can just go do that type of thing and go back to the guy who failed them on third and one and he gives them a big play, two plays later. It's the Jags.

The Jacks are still an NFL team. Well, it is very good. If you're a good. Insofar as they have one of the 32 slots, yes. That was very funny. Yeah, it's, it. Doug Peterson sounds like such a broken man after all these press conferences. But he was pre-fired today. Like they kind of said if you don't beat the, I think Ian Rappaport was kind of insinuating if you don't beat the Lions. It's over and it's like they have Mac Jones. They're out beating the lions.

Yeah, exactly. The worst possible like, oh yeah, this is the breaking point. If you don't beat arguably the best team in the league with your backup quarterback, it's over. The setup there, what I'm trying to say is this is what you're supposed to do to bad teams. You're supposed to beat the shit out of bad teams. And it's really nice to see this Lions team

when they're playing as teams that are worse than them, They have no qualms about just embarrassing people. And that's the type of group that we're talking about here. The real element of that and what I think is intriguing about this team is that the amount of juice they have right now compared to what they've had at any other iteration of this group is very, very different. The Jameson Williams part of it, I think is notable. But even like every time Gibbs touches the ball and you have those two guys where like

any time they're involved, it can be a 40-50-yard play. and you combine that with the down-to-down efficiency, this group brings to the table because of guys like Gammon Rossi Brown, because of the running game. And just the overall formula and what they're bringing to the table on offense, there's just a different gear to it than there ever has been before. And I think that's why they're so exciting. I actually, this is like kind of an abstract thing,

but I actually had a thought about Jemir Gibbs earlier where, so when I was a kid, I loved Javid best. And obviously he ended up with the Lions and his career was kind of short. I feel like Gibbs is getting the career that we never got to see from Java Invest. And so for me, it's very fulfilling as a person who loved him so much. It's a deep cut. Yeah, it's so cool to see like this, that exact player get to have this moment in this offense. It's just very rewarding and very fun. Even as somebody who has some warm memories of Java at best, I think Javier Gibbs has a level of juice that Javid Best was never even bringing to the table. It might be like 10 year old me like,

you know, pumping him up in my memory. But like, it just, there was, there was something about that version of that player and Gibbs being like the best version of it. That's just, it's very fun. Last one here. Did you see the Taysom Hill had three touchdowns? Touchdown carries today. This is how I'll lay this out.

I recently traded for Alvin Camaro in fantasy. I saw Tassum Hill had three touchdowns and I freaked out because I was like, oh my God, are they going to give the ball to Tassum Hill every time they're inside the five. I was not watching this game. It was not on one of the TVs. There's only limited space. So in my mind, it was like, oh, Taysom Hill had three punch-in touchdowns. Not the case.

Taysam Hill had a 10-yard rushing touchdown, a 33-yard rushing touchdown, and a 75-yard rushing touchdown, and had like a dozen targets in this game and threw a pass. I do not know what to make of any of this. He threw multiple passes. So here's on, I think, the Saints first possession. They run an outside zone toss to the right with Tassum Hill as the fullback. he's blocking. The next play, I think, they run a reverse four Taysom Hill. He throws a pass for like 30 yards. And then he immediately catches a flat route on a rollout. And then he gets a zone retouchdown to

end the drive. I'm like, what are you not doing? And then they only continued to throw him the ball for the rest of the game. They were using him on third and force and ones as a runner. Like it just, it was like a, I don't know. They just wanted to showcase Tastom Hill because their season's over. their season is probably over. There's still two games back at the Falcons. It's hard for me to imagine the Saints climbing all the way back into it, considering all the deficiencies this team has.

I don't really know what to make of them right now. The prevailing thought I have about them right now as they sit at four and seven, 11 weeks into the season, is I don't want this to go well enough for Saints fans' sake, where they get to the end of the year and they're close. Oh, yeah, that's not good. Don't do that. Remember where you were a month ago. Yeah. I don't think you need to tear this down to the studs because they're never going to do that, right? Like, there's still, obviously, there's still a capable team in some respects. But I still think it would be a dangerous outcome for them to get to the end of the season and use whatever happens over the next eight weeks to justify the status quo. That's the only thing I would have in the back of my mind if I were a Saints fan right now is that that is probably the worst case scenario. I think it absolutely. Absolutely. And wasn't that always kind of the worst case scenario with like the Derek Carr version of the Raiders at certain points?

Is them feeling at the end of the season like, ah, we're almost there? And then you just end up the same 6 and 11 team or whatever that you were beforehand. Before we get out of here, it's time for what we learned today. Let's do it. You know, I think I've learned something today. I'm going to let you kick us off here. What did you learn from week 11 in the NFL? Kick us off was a great way to say that. I learned I have a capacity to be sad about kickers, specifically Justin Tucker. Like obviously for a lot of this season, he has not looked like the best version of himself. But I say this in earnest. I've been doing this for probably about a decade now. I started in 2013, 2014.

Tucker's been there my entire existence as like doing this job. Like he has been the guy where I'm like, this is automatic. I don't have to think about it. And so for him to miss some of these kicks that are like inside 50, I'm like, man, I never even, I would go to the bathroom when he was taking a 50-yard kick before. It didn't mean anything. He missed two kicks in this game against the Steelers. I think JJ Watts said at halftime, he had missed two kicks against the Steelers in his career before this.

And so I just, today was a day where I was like, and so especially for the Ravens to lose a game where one or two field goals would have got them over the line, I just, I was like, man. I didn't know that I, like, I know I've always felt this way. You know, when you see a quarterback on his last leg, like Peyton Manning, whatever, like, you know. Yeah, late career, Drew Brees and the shoulder wouldn't work. Yeah, or Julio Jones, like on the Eagles. It's like, okay, we don't need to do this. This is kind of sad. This is, I'm starting to get there here with Justin Tucker.

And I just didn't know I could feel this way about a kicker. One other example of how this Ravens team, even if the ceiling on offense is higher than it's been in recent years, there are other specifics about this group that are very different than in years past. And I think we have to recalibrate when we think about what this Baltimore team is down the stretch. I'm going to stick with that Steelers Ravens game sort of with mine. I think that we've learned today and we're learning really over the course of this year, these culture-centric head coaches and the value that they bring, it's very real. And you have to balance that with, and I've talked about this a bunch, you have to balance it with the right offensive ecosystem, play call, or everything else, right?

Like the Ben Johnson thing in Detroit is a huge reason why the Lions are what they are. But I think we've learned, and we've always known this, but I think I've learned this over the last couple years as I've thought about the right model and what you should be trying to build. NFL seasons are incredibly long. They're incredibly difficult. You are going to have dips. And having the right people in charge to weather those dips is huge.

And I just think that how trying a season is and how hard it is to get 53 grown men who make a lot of money moving in the same direction all the time when they're hurt and the game is difficult and it's physical and your body's worn down, that's a really, really hard job. And not that many guys are good at it. And we can do anything we want about the next up-and-coming coordinator and these guys who are going to build the most beautiful offense you've ever seen. But then you watch a team like the Steelers in the way that they play.

And you watch the Lions in the way that they play. And you watch what the Chargers are now with Jim Harbaugh in the way that they're playing. and having the right guy to make sure that the people in your building are coming to work every day, wanting to put in their best effort, wanting to be the best versions of themselves, and they're consistently in the right positions. That's half the battle. It's more than half the battle. And I just think that sometimes we get too, and I'm as guilty if this is anybody,

I think we get too distracted and too intoxicated by like the next sexy thing and the next hot shot coordinator. and we forget too often what it actually means to be a head coach of an NFL team. Sean Payton's another really good example, just like how puttoned up and put together those Broncos feel. And finding the right guy, even if he is not necessarily the next big thing to get your building on the same page like that, it can change everything. And I think that we have plenty of examples of that right now. It's such a great point because the scheme of football is always changing.

What's useful and popular now might not be. five years from now and what what today looks like doesn't look like what five years ago looked like. I mean, just think about all the conversations we had about Shanahan and then the two high stuff. And it's, I'm sure a year from now, it's going to be something else. Like there's always evolving. But at the end of the day, football is football and people are people. And there are certain fundamentals that you have to get people to buy in on no matter what kind of scheme you're running. And I think like you said, some of these culture type coaches, whether it's Tomlin or Campbell or obviously Harbaugh,

for them to be able to instill that and really get buy-in, no matter what people on the inside or outside think about the talent on your roster or what everyone thinks of you, for them to get that kind of buy-in almost no matter what. Like you said, it's more than half the battle. And I think, you know, the reason we lean on like, oh, this scheme is really cool is because that's all we get insight into, right? We can watch the film and say,

Liam Cohen's offense is really cool. I don't know anything about how Liam Cohen could potentially hold up as a head coach, and that's not to say he can't obviously. It's just, there's nothing to pull from it. Whereas from our seat, we can at least watch the offense. And that's, I think, why it's so hard and why we might just have the tendency to lean on what the scheme stuff is. But like you said, at the end of the day, it is about getting by. And it is about how you handle the locker room and handle people. Just think about how easy it is for the bottom to fall out of your season when you lose that. When you watch a team like the Jags, when you see a team like the Bears that was just

in total, just chaos mode. I mean, just like the sky is falling. The Jets defense. The Jets defense is a perfect example. The game is really hard. You have to want it. You have to want to play for your coach, the guys next to you, all of that stuff. And sometimes I think we forget about that shit because it feels a little bit too

kumbaya. And it isn't as tangible and it's hard to discuss. But I think that what you're seeing with the best teams in the NFL is that they all have that and they all have that. in high volume, and it's made a huge, huge difference. And it's definitely something worth paying attention to down the stretch. And it's something that's worth paying attention to as we look at the next group of coaches. That is something that we're going to dig into on the athletic football show over the next

couple weeks here, one of our midweek shows that we're going to do and one of the conversations that we're going to have. So be on the lookout for that because it's about that time in the calendar. We'll be back with our next midweek show a little bit later on Wednesday. We're going to have my buddy Connor Orr from Sports Illustrated to come on and chat with us. As a reminder, if you guys have not seen it, we are doing special shows on Saturdays right now with a four-part series called The Money Down that we're doing as a look at the business of the NFL. The first one ran on Saturday with me and Dominique Fox were talking about just the stagnation of the cornerback market over the last five years. We've talked so much about running backs.

And I think that we've forgotten that corner has flattened off a little bit. And we talked about why that is structurally how the game has changed, the fact that we don't have as many superstar corners in the NFL, the fact that corners used to be some of the biggest stars in the league, and now they don't really feel like that anymore. So why? I really enjoyed that conversation with Dominique. I would encourage you guys to check it out, and we will be having three more of those coming your way over the next month or so. So be on the lookout for those. Two more housekeeping things. If you're watching this on YouTube, please like, please subscribe.

please subscribe to the YouTube channel. We would really appreciate that. If you're listening on any other podcasting platform, give it a like. Leave a review. If you listen on an Apple podcast, it really does matter to us, and it does mean something. So I would consider it a personal favor. If you would take the time to do that, it would mean a ton to us if you're somebody that has enjoyed the show either this year or over the last couple years. For now, that is all we've got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We will talk to you very soon.