The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 12 Recap: Eagles beat Bills in OT thriller, Jaguars outlast Texans, the wild AFC Wild Card race, and more

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

The Eagles and Bills gave us an instant classic in Week 12, with both teams ending up with familiar results: the Eagles with a win, and the Bills with a bewildering, frustrating loss. That's where Robert Mays and Nate Tice begin this episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys also talk the Jaguars scoring a big win over the Texans, the AFC Wild Card picture, and more.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well. Dirty dozen.

Got the week 12, almost all the way through. Now we're getting into the, it really feels like the home stretch, the final third of the season. But Thanksgiving always feels like a new little like boost into the last part of the season, especially when you break up the games. We had a Black Friday game, which is going to be new. I actually didn't mind it. I mean, I know just the timing, and I'm not saying the game actually how it played out, but the actual, what that game will consist of on Black Friday football. I didn't mind it, but I'm overall doing very well.

How are you, Robert? The only reason it annoyed me is because I always go to the movies on Black Friday. And I was staring down Napoleon and it's two and a half hour running time. And there was just no good way for me to make it happen because I had to do some sort of physical activity after Thanksgiving. and just my schedule the way it fell, I was a little frustrated by it. But I'm feeling okay. I think that Thanksgiving gives a jolt to the NFL schedule.

It does not give a jolt to me. This is the first day in the last two or three that I have not consumed just a copious amount of butter. So I'm feeling better today, but it has been a pretty heavy weekend over here at our house. I've had, yeah, I basically had three Thanksgiving. So that was great. Did you see Killers of the Flower Moon? I did see Killers of the Flower Moon. Okay.

Because that was a long run time. I'm excited to see that, though. With the child, we have to pick and choose our spots. We used to be a weekly movie-faring bunch, so we have to pick or choose her spots. Three and a half hours is a long time. That's a long time to ask one of the grandmas to watch. So I can't wait for that one to come out on streaming, is what I'm saying. Something that topped killers of the fire moon today in running time was that wild Eagles

Bill's game that we got that is a season-changing game. I think, obviously, for Buffalo and what they're staring at in the AFC playoff race now, but also just the type of team that the Eagles are, their ability to kind of fight through some of these mucky games, which you've consistently seen from them. Where do you want to start with Bill's Eagles? When you think back on this game in May, as we're thinking about what it meant in the NFL season, where do you think you'll land? Oh, man, I think Josh Allen's performance. And actually, how the Eagles offense performed the second half, I think they really came together. It was a tale of two halves and a tail of two RPO's.

That was kind of how this game went for the Eagles. It was their RPO's were like what is such a huge plus in this offense. What carries them for a lot of their lot of stretches and where they go was kind of like a hindrance to them. The interception was a RPO that went wrong. The fumble was the botched handoff was an RPO that went wrong. But then the second half, they kind of separated it and the Eagles ran some straight run plays. I would say the first play of the second. drive of the second half. Yes, I nailed that, was just a straight run play. And DeAndre Swift

just gone because they're just taken away from, okay, hey, Kurt Hertz, which is we have juicy run looks. This is what Mahomes had to go through. This is what Josh Allen had to go through. All these guys that use RPO's day to learn, hey, we're just hand it off. Especially when it's wet, you're just asking for trouble with all the ball handling questions. I'm totally with you. And the numbers bear it out. So in the second half, in the first half in this game, they averaged 3.8 yards per play. In the second half, it was 6.5. 0.8 yards per play. And the juicy run looks are the best place to start.

That run to Swift at the beginning of the second half, I think really signaled the change in what they were going to try to do. Because the looks were there the entire game. We'll get to what Jordan Milata said on the quarterback draw there at the end when they won the game. But even before that, I was shocked at the amount of light boxes that the bills were playing in this game. On first down in this game, the bills had six or fewer guys in the box on 72% of the eagle snaps,

Just for context, no team in the league is above 56% on the season. So they were daring them to run the ball, which makes the first drive with the three straight dropbacks so problematic. But as soon as they committed to running the ball and then play action, those were the two things. Running play action, all of their big plays in the second half, I can't think of a single straight dropback, maybe outside of the third and 15 chuck to OZ. But on first and second down, fake screen to Devante Smith, play action crosser to

Devante Smith. They were just hammering them on runs and play actions throughout. And it was the right way to go about it. It changed the entire complexion of the game. Yeah, they had to do it because the first half it wasn't working. And it was just really some just misread place. That's what it is. They like to read it, RPO or just the run game. And just sometimes Jalen Hertz got fooled or he was just kind of assuming some things or he was just really in the first drive. The first play of the second half, they ran an RPO and he just doesn't throw to slant to AJ Brown. And I thought that he just battled back, of course, as the game went along. But even when they did the RPO's, then he read them correctly.

They hit a sly to a stole in the red zone that was for a nice play. And then the R.J. Brown touchdown was also an RPO, which was a nice. I love that play. I saw, I remember, sorry I'm not going to be able to credit who it was, but it was a well-followed high school coach who does a lot of scheme stuck. And they were calling it a pick and roll RPO. is essentially AJ Brown kind of sets a pick for the tight end coming across, but then he rolls back to the quarterback, which is, it's beautiful the way it unfolds. But that's another great example where it's all based around the run game,

even the ways they were throwing the ball in the second half. Yeah, and the Colts ran out a ton today, too, that exact same combo. And we used to run it with a sprint out on shovel because we stole from North Turner, too. So it's how funny how Norv Turner stuff just gets matriculates down into what, we see what the Eagles are doing today in the red zone. But it works for touchdowns. The Devante Smith touchdown. They ran the exact same formation, A.J. Brown number three,

Devante Smith and number two, one by three formation. This one, they put Devante Smith in a little short motion outwards. And then they just run a bubble pump earlier in that drive. They ran a zone bubble. But again, Jalen Hertz gave the ball and they got about six, seven yards on it. So again, they just made it give reads. And they were just telling them just hand it off and it's going to work out okay. There's some disjointed play calling, I thought, a couple times maybe at the end of the game.

And I think sometimes that is where a lot of the frustrations with the Eagles team on the offensive side, even though they just keep putting up points, I felt like the same kind of song that we've sung throughout this year is run the ball. When tie events are going tough, just run the ball. You have a plus, plus, plus run game, just lean on it. And sometimes they just kind of lose their rhythm. And I think today they found some rhythm that second half. And also they were picking on Russell Douglas a little bit on those. play action stuff. They know that he wasn't really falling off on everything.

So they just kept it in Devante Smith behind him a couple times and in the run game as well. So I thought they found it, but I feel like they can find it earlier. And I think it's always ending up being the same answer. It's so funny that we always expect them to find some sort of answer over the course of the game. We just get frustrated about how long it takes every once in a while. But this was the perfect game to just lean on the run game.

Because your light boxes, they're playing zone almost every single snap because they're going to make him read it out. And rather than do that, it's like, all right, well, if you're going to let us run it, then we're just going to continue to run it. So it absolutely worked out in the second half. All this being said about the Eagles' consistent ability to find answers on offense and kind of pull things out in the end, which they have done consistently over the last two years. They're one or two bills missteps away from losing this game because of the way the bills move the ball on offense and specifically the way that Josh Allen played. I know how this is going to go because this is always how it goes. He throws the pick on the trap coverage in the second half, and that is going to be talked about to death because it was a high profile interception.

He was incredible today. He was insane today. He accounted for 22 first downs in this game. He added about a touchdown worth of EPA on scrambles. He had 61 yards on scrambles and about five points of EPA as a runner. He affected the game in every possible way. And for the most part, over the course of the first, I don't know, three. three quarters. It really did seem like he was just in fuck you mode and he was not going to allow

them to lose this game and then one, two, three bounces the ball and we're here again. And the bills are 500 and it truly does feel like their season is starting to slip away. Man, and it's just that offense. Okay. So the defense, this is what the Eagles did in the second half. They went punt, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, punt, field goal touchdown. So that's how the defense played. But then the offense, you watch Josh Allen. This is, this is weather Taylor made for Josh Allen. This is where his traits shine through. It's insane that he was playing this way and throwing the ball this way in a downpour.

It shouldn't make sense. He was in the touchdown to Diggs before the end of the half was truly him playground in the pocket because that was a second window read. And he's supposed to throw on the first window and he just hangs. And he's not supposed to go there. He had two answers. He had a crosser underneath and I think Don Kincaid's at a boundary. And he just waits to his second. window. He was truly going, I'm willing this throw in this touchdown right now. He, that was truly

throwing a guy open because he waited to the second window and puts it on him. The whole, the whole sequence even before that, because there was a turnover right before that, I believe. They had the drive before that, his two minute drive was insane. Yeah. Like the third and six steps in between two rushers. hits the route to Stefan Dix. hits Kincaid with Byrd one-on-one. It's a wheel route. Like, he had several wheel routes today, like as the Eagles corners were dropping like 20 yards deep and he's still hitting him. It was just, yeah, he was insane. This was the perfect weather game for him to just showcase what he could be. Even on the drive and overtime, he had two third and nine conversions. He had the missile to Gabe Davis over the first, on the first one,

where it looked like he was trying to stick it in his face mask. And then he had the scramble to the left. And if there's not a slight miscommunication with Gabe Davis, where he starts taking it back to the back corner instead of taking it straight up the field. And I understand why he did that, too. And that's what stinks. It's like, Gabe Davis is a like completely wrong. It was just that you picked the lesser of two answers. And that's what stinks. And it's like, I get it. It's just, that's what happens when you get heat up. Joe Brady's reaction in that moment. It was just classic. And I'll remember him sitting there and he kind of sits back in his chair for people who didn't say it. And he goes, oh my God. Yeah. Because they knew they had it.

They knew they had it. And if that play is completed, that's a touchdown. And they are probably on their way to really making a potential run or kind of squeezing their way into the wildcard race. And now that becomes much more difficult. Before we dig into kind of the bigger picture implications here, have to shout out what Jake Elliott did in that moment. We don't talk a lot about kickers on this show. A 59-yard earn, that one iron that he just spanks just over the crossbar. And that is one of the best kicks I have ever seen in that situation. When they were moving backwards because of the very weird Jason Kelsey penalties on that drive where he gets two false starts for flinching, which it's almost like your little brother, like here's two for

flinching. He did it twice. That was such a weird set of moments and it does not matter because Jake Elliott bangs that thing home in a game where Tyler Bass missed two field goals. So the difference in the kickers ends up becoming a huge moment in this game, which just feels right for how this Eagle season and how this Bill's season has gone. Yeah. And just, oh my God, as soon as he boomed it, that thing like, it tailed right and then it just like, it went on a straight line. Like you said, that was a one iron. I've seen Tiger Woods hit that same shot. I don't know if it was a, I don't know if it was in the rain like that. But I think the, this Eagles team has gotten challenged by the class of the AFC, even if the bills have been, you know, kind of beaten up recently. And I mean,

they just find these answers and it's because they have a kicker that can kick that stuff. It's like someone steps up every time with this team. It's like, you know, their players on defense will step up at big moments. Slay had a couple big plays. So it's like that's, again, they just win with this kind of sheer town. Everyone steps up. It's like, yeah, have they gotten a flu? I don't know.

You feel like some could go the other way, but it's like they're still only have one loss. It's like pretty ridiculous what they keep doing every single week. Yeah, and they're going to be tested down the back half of the season. There's no doubt. They got a lot of these coming in the second half of the year. year, but I'm consistently impressed with their ability to kind of find something in these close games. And no matter who it is, no matter how they do it, no matter which side of the ball, it consistently keeps coming up. Any issue with the AJ Brown incompletion? I know people are going to be talking a

lot about that over the next 24 hours or so. That felt like an incomplete pass to me. I have no issue with the way that they ruled it. It just seemed like the right call in that moment. Yeah. No, no, I understood why it was again, the classic, like whatever it's called on the field. They probably roll with that. Yeah, I got known with that. So now the bills sit. at six and six, they are the 10 seed in the AFC. Crazy. They are behind all those teams that are six and five right now. I mean, you can list them off.

They're behind the Colts. They're behind the Texans. They're behind the Broncos. And you would think, all right, there are only one game back of the Steelers and the Browns, right? Something, well, game and a half, because they have, they've played 12 games. They have a buy next week. There are a game and a half back.

They're two back in the loss column. The Brown's offense is going to be an issue for the rest of the year. We'll see what happens with the Steelers. We'll talk about them in a little bit. I don't think that the firing of Matt can't necessarily solve all of their problems offensively. The Colts will see, you know, they've been a really good story, but they have a team like the bills, probably not. You feel like because of how good they are, especially on offense, they'd be able to make up some of this ground. But the schedule they continue to have to play is brutal.

I mean, they have the chiefs here in the back half of the season. They have the dolphins again. They have the Cowboys on December 17th, and they play against the Chargers, who, for all of their ill, it's not going to be an easy game. So it's just such a tough road. And it really does feel like it was this game that could swing their season back to the other direction. And coming away with a loss when it felt so often over the course of the day that they

were outplaying them that they were going to win this game is just an absolutely heartbreaking way for this thing to end. They needed a buy more than almost any other team said that a couple of weeks ago. So they're finally getting that. But how this defense played last week, they got the, again, the Zach Wilson boost. But then again, this week, I thought they played inspired. I thought they played smart. I saw the spine making a lot of good calls and checks.

You know, the talent won out, of course, with the Eagles offense. But I thought for two and a half quarters, two and a quarter quarters, that they played really good ball. And again, it's the offense made a couple. They just don't get all the way over the top, even with Josh Allen just going berserk and having some nice designs. But it's like, they're going to hang in these games because I thought the defense did play like, again, inspired ball where I feel. better about them. Remember a couple of weeks ago where I was like, ah, not how I see them right now.

I know, I know what you're saying, but at the same time, the fact that they could not get a stop down the stretch. No, absolutely not. It's just tough. I'm with you. I think that down in and down out, I would have felt better about them moving forward. But for them to have that game that they had on offense and put up all those points and still lose. It just, it feels appropriate based on how the defense is played for most of the season. No. And one scheme thing to wrap this up, though. It was pretty cool by the bills because it was a great. like baiting the Eagles into a check to get it. It was the design QB run, Josh Allen touchdown.

It was out of empty. It was just the only QB draw. Both teams did this. Big play today was the QB draws on both side of the ball out of empty. But they baited this play because they started with Stefan Diggs in the backfield. So the Eagles went, well, screw that. Zone check. Okay.

You know, we're not going to mess with that. Man coverage. And then they motion Stefan Diggs out and getting to empty. And then he gets into the QB draw. So it was like baited that zone check out of it. I was like that. And then, you know, Josh Allen just carries Fletcher Cox to the end zone to score a touchdown. So it's like that that puts it over the top.

That's the cherry on top. But nice little design there. I like that in the red zone. Last thing quarterback draw wise, my lota comes out after the game and says, we cannot believe they were in that look. Like we do this all the time in this area of the field. We cannot believe they were in that look. And again, just kind of a strike against what that defense has been for the most part during

this season. And the fact that it was that juicy in the biggest moment of the game, Again, after they rip off another swift run into one of those light boxes, just consistently frustrating. And they played it well earlier. They played the QB Drive. It was a different look. It wasn't the empty one that they got to. But yeah, they showed that all the time.

It was in the last year's Super Bowl. It was the week before it gets the Chiefs. But it was the perfect snapshot of this Bills team. They do so well and then they lose their heads right at the biggest moment. And they bring a blitz in that moment. So, yeah, it was just they lost their heads again. I don't want to have to do it now. I mean, there's no reason to kind of dig their grave when there's this much left to play.

and this team is this good, but there's a discussion to be had about this era of the Buffalo Bills and the door potentially closing. Your Micahide, Jordan Poyer kind of built team that really rose this team up from the ashes, made them relevant, made them consistently a contender. It does feel like that stretch of Buffalo Bill's football is slipping away and has slipped away potentially with them losing this game, but we'll have plenty of time to dig into that. It's time for you at my attention. Let's get to it. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity, but now you have a lot of,

my attention. Every week, there's so much stuff coming at you during an NFL Sunday. We like to pick out a couple games, moments, themes that really grabbed us. Not as many games today because of Thanksgiving and because of the Black Friday. I love the six games during the early slate, made it a little bit more palatable. But Jaguar's Texans, just as a game, okay, you have my attention because that saved us in the early slate. Without much else going on, Jags Texans was more than enough to keep that thing entertaining throughout as we had to live through Panthers, Titans, and Giants, Patriots, and everything else that was going on. But that was a hell of a game in Houston. And I cannot wait to watch these teams play against each other a lot more here over the next few years.

You know how like teams will claim, you know, be America's team and all that. That felt like America's game. That was, uh, that really felt like it. It felt like all of us. It's adorable that you think that. That was the athletic football show game. You think some random football fan who's like a, who was like a, who was like a huge C-Haw? fan was like, man, I can't fucking wait to watch Texans Jags today. They should. They should, but I think that you're getting a little bit overexcited there. To pound the table.

No, I meant more of that because it wasn't just like a ton of juicy game slate. So it's like a lot of people going like, maybe that Seahawks fan was going, well, I guess I'll watch this, you know, a lot of teams. And, you know, oh, I just, we're an Irish fan, just, oh, we won that game. What else got to check out? 10 a.m. game. Oh, let's see what this Trevor Lawrence and C.J. Stroud are all about. They aren't a Thursday game where they were in terrible uniform.

forms. But it was two very good quarterbacks going at it. That's first and foremost, I think that's very apparent. Anyone to watch it, both exceptional moving in the pocket. Even if Strout took four sacks, he was phenomenal in the pocket. It could have been twice that. It could have been twice that. I thought one of the stories of the game to me is that we were talking about the Texans front and how they had come on a little bit over the last three, four games. The Jags front consistently outplayed them in this game. And I also thought that Trevor had more time in the pocket than I thought he might coming into this game. So I thought the Jags won up front on both sides of the ball.

And it was a very, not even a quiet, but it was a subtle impact on this game. It made a difference over the course of four quarters for why the Jaguars ended up winning. Texans running backs ran 11 times for 32 yards. And 14 of those came on one play. So wasn't that, that, I mean, the checks. They had a 22% success rate on early down runs in this game, 22%. And as much as this team can chuck it. And boy, do they, they do want to throw those jabs.

And that kind of helps keep them on schedule. It's part of the formula. It's like they want to do that because they want the heavy boxes. We talked about this in the preview show. It's just, you have to figure out the right mix of it. It can go too far in one direction or the other. But overall, it's the type of team they want to be. And the comparison that I think is easy to make is there have been years where the

Niners haven't been super efficient running the ball in early downs. but it's who they are and ultimately when it comes out in the wash, playing that way makes you a more efficient team. The Texans led the league in EPA per dropback on first down in part because of the boxes that they see in those situations. Every team that we can think of of this offense is offshoots, every good and bad, it's the struggles or the boon in the run game. The McVay Rams with Gurley, you know, even with the Packers teams with those Rogers winning MVP years, it's those were the run games. They had fun run games going, you know, with Aaron Jones and Aaron Dylan going. So, but Stroud just was putting the team on his back, having said that, put, I mean, just unbelievable again. Because of pressure, I mean, creation.

I compared my feeling or what I wanted to say to was you see, I'm sure you have Lost World Jurassic Park and Jeff Goldblum has his daughter. And she does the little gymnastics trick and kicks the velociraptor. And he goes, they cut you from the team. And I just, that's watching Stroud run around like, they didn't think you. could create. It's unbelievable. That's, his touchdown to Tankdale running left, he throws, I couldn't believe how quickly he got that off. I was like, ooh, this could be a tough one. I could see, I could see what he was seeing.

And I was like, oh, let's see how he gets to this. He was like, boopoo. Touchdown. I couldn't believe it. How quick he got that moving to his left. And the other touchdown that he threw to Nico Collins, he steps up in the pocket and finds him late in the downcoming across the field. And there was a play on that drive where he finds Tankdale for the touchdown that to me was my favorite play he had all game. First or second down, I can't remember. But there's pressure again pretty quickly. He steps up in the pocket, drifts to his left a little bit. There's a crosser coming back to his right. So he has to kind of reset and then throw back to his right and the placement and the touch everything. The watching the guy play quarterback is insane.

Like he is so, so good already at all these little things. And each week, there's like a new little present when you open the game. And this week, it was the creation stuff. This week it was him making plays off schedule, him extending in the pocket, him extending out of the pocket, him making a couple of plays as a scrambler. Every single week, it's a new little layer. And man, is it fun to watch. It is. I did think one of my favorite moments, though, it was actually the Jags defense getting after Stroud was he came up limping on a play. Like he kind of, like a little ankle kind of thing.

And the very next play, Caldwell, Mike Caldwell, he dialed up like a huge blitz and just like overwhelmed him. It was a third and six, but even though Stroud took a sack on this play, I thought it was pretty cool because it just kind of showed where his brain was at. He tried to reverse out of this and he took the sack like behind him. It was like a third and six late in the game. And on it, he was going to throw hot, but he saw Andre Sisko bearing down, which is a great play by him. So he's like, okay, I can't throw short a six. That's what they want me to do. I just thought having the wherewithal to know, I'm hot.

So I know something's coming from my backside. So I'm going to try and circle out of it. he got caught yes in it but it was like the fact that he was aware to do that is pretty sick like it's pretty awesome stuff like that's that the play where they did the full slide to the right yeah so and they left josh allen untouched which i i didn't protection wise it feels like the wrong choice in that moment would you agree to leave him on to leave him unblocked well they're they're hot so you have to pick one way full slide so it's up to i don't know if it's a quarterback or center there but it's preference sometimes some guys want to not throw into the pressure one of the guys was

going to come clean on the edge. So it's up to you do we slide a full left. Yeah, do you throw into the pressure? Some quarterbacks prefer that or like, you know, work around it. Like Lamar prefers that or Herbert prefers that or do you push it into the pressure and then have a guy on your backside and try and beat him with a throw? So it's just a preference thing. So they got gamed up. That's what I was saying. It was pretty. Caldwell. Caldwell was bringing blitzes and Stroud caught him a couple times, but then right at the very end, they kind of caught him back with a couple of those blitzes. It was a back and forth. I mean, it was a great where. Awesome game. I think he hit Collins on a slant where the anticipation was phenomenal, but there was a safety

coming late, and he saw it. It was a third down. He saw it a mile away. He hits it. It's a big completion. So I thought that back and forth. And we talked about that in the preview show, what that little matchup would look like, the blitzes and kind of the complexities that Mike Hallwalk and throw at you and what Stroud

has done against the blitz. So that was very cool to watch. I know that people are going to ask about the officials and some of the calls in this game. And of course, there were some rough ones and some really kind of ticky. tack plays was the defensive holding, the pass interference is down near the end zone. But there was one of the biggest plays of the game was a not called pass interference that led to an interception. This is my stance on this. This will continue to be my stance on this. There are always going to be some brutal no calls, some things you disagree with over the course of a game. For the most part,

this stuff comes out in the wash over the course of an entire season. And in this game specifically, you can argue that it came out in the wash in this game. That should have been a pass interference on that Ingram interception. So if that doesn't happen, then the Texans probably aren't even in spitting distance over the course of this one. So I don't have an issue. I'm not going to linger on how much the officials impacted the final outcome of the game. It's a, again, it's, I feel like you said, it evens out over time.

It's just the game and clock management stuff that I'll lose my mind over, like what happened in the Chargers game tonight and Ravens game tonight. But it was, but that is what makes me lose my mind. This is, like you said, it just, it happens. It happens. And they were going after, I mean, the Jags' offense was going after Tavier Thomas on purpose. Anytime in man coverage, if you're wondering when Christian Kirk caught all those overballs, like before the half and on the first drive early in the game, it was because any time in man coverage, that's who they were attacking was they were going to attack the slot in some way, shape, or form. But yeah, I think the official stuff just always should.

I do want to talk about the Jaggs' offense, though, before. A couple of, so let's talk about the Jaguars. Because you mentioned the Crosser, my favorite thing the Jaggs did in this game, we talked. about it after last week, I wanted to see them continue to be aggressive pushing the ball downfield on early downplay action. And my goodness, were they in this game? Five of seven for 124 yards on play action on first down. 0.88 EPA per dropback for context. Highest in the league typically around 0.2-ish, 0.22. So we're talking four times of Patrick Mahomes on early downplay action, 17.7 yards per attack.

And just think in your mind all the examples. Ridley on a huge one, Kirk on a huge one. They had a little boot to Breton Strange that went for a chunk gain. Luke Farrell had one. So consistently on first down, they were being a little bit more aggressive. They still ran the ball a bunch for not a very efficient day on early downs. But you mix it in with those seven dropbacks, five huge chunk plays. Those were a lot of the best plays they had today.

Yeah. And a lot of a 12 personnel and 13 personnel, they're really. really leaning into it. And that's what a lot of those play action came out of. The boot to Luke Farrow was kind of like, yeah, that's exactly what this offense is leaning into now. Just heavy personnel, bootleg, shot plays and checkdowns. They were in 13 personnel, the second play of the game.

And they went empty. And, you know, he attacked the middle. It was basically like if they got zoned, they were attacking the middle. If they got man, I guess we're attacking the middle. But not bigger crosses. Big crossers. But that big moving routes or on the outside. that Calvin Ridley got targeted a couple times in man.

And yeah, I just thought they had a good game playing. Next-Gen stats, I think, tweeted this out, which was on throws at Travel Tenor Air Yards. Trevor Lawrence went seven for 11 for 180 yards. So it was just like he was pushing the ball. He was attacking again over the middle. And at first I was getting frustrated by some of the side to sideness. They had that Travis E.TN swing screen route design.

They did it twice on third and long early in the game. Twice. And then they popped one late. And I kind of got why they're doing it because they were trying to put Toa Toa on an island and make them really run side to side. The linebackers again. But it was one of those where it was like one miss block and that doesn't go anywhere. So didn't work out twice, but they got the third one there. But I can see, again, I'm liking a couple weeks in a row now what the Jags are trying to do.

It's been really good for them. And I think this is so sustainable. Some of the routes that Calvin really ran in this game, just absolutely disgusting. The one that he hit against Derek Stingley, I think it was third and six on the right side line, and he stems inside and then brings it back outside. It's a beautiful throw by Trevor at the sticks on third down, which is a huge play in the game. And then down in the red zone, the touchdown and the two point, he's just going to work

down there. So it is fun to, all I want with him within this offense, just give me him off the line of scrimmage a little bit closer to the formation every once. in a while because that's what I want to see. I want to see him just be able to have two-way goes and go to work on dudes in space rather than just working outside the numbers. And so them using him the way they have over the last couple of games, you can see what he can do.

Like this is what he is capable of within this offense. And he really gives them so much juice when he's not George Pickens. I just, that's not what I want. I don't need him to be that sort of player. Again, he's a route runner. He, oh, man. Okay, Trevor, we just discussed about. out. Trevor was fantastic today, too. I also want to make sure that way, Trevor Lawrence,

want to make sure to emphasize that. And his chemistry with Calvin Ridley sometimes can just be, they missed on the go ball, went right off of Ridley's hands, but it was just like the release in that ball, but it was still just like, oh my God. Like they're, uh, Trevor Lawrence had another throw where he's breaking to the right and they complete it. I can't wait to see the end zone view of that one. They had a terrible replay of this one where it just barely beats the DB jumping over. But again, they kind of had this mind melt working. And you can see glimpses of and flashes of it. But now, again, it looks just so much more like, this feels real.

Like, this really does. That Texan team is not, that defense is not easy. Like, they're not the toughest unit, but they get after you. And the fact that they can just do this kind of stuff week in, week out, they're finding different answers, Calvin Lee being one of them. It's like, it's pretty good. This is good for the Jags. Last guy I wanted to shout out, Josh Allen had a really nice game again.

And it would have been a really good season for him. So he comes unblocked on the first sack, but the sack he had in the final minute to kind I pushed him back behind the sticks when they missed the field goal. He just beats Laramie Tunsell on that play. And so, again, I think he had double-digit pressures again in this game. He's been really, really good for them all season in a contract year. And he consistently showed up in huge moments. First drive of the game, he gets a holding call.

He draws a holding call on the first drive of the game. So just all of these little ways that he continues to show up has been really important for this defense playing the way that it has. Yeah, they kept gaming, running him games with somebody else or with a line. back or blitzing. Yeah, a little of cut. Yeah, and they're getting tonsil in the running back. Because, okay, tackles and guards work together.

Centers and guards work together. Tackles and running backs don't really work together on picking up games. So I like that from the Jags. They were sprinkling that in today. All right, let's keep rolling here. Next one, the AFC wild card race. You have my attention. We don't want to focus on one team or one game here because so much happened today

that's going to have a ton of impact on how these playoff spots end up shaking out. The Steelers beat the Bengals, moves them to seven and four. The Browns lose to the Broncos, which drops Cleveland to seven and four. The Broncos are now six and five and very much in this thing. Huge win for you. This would be the funniest shit in the world. If you pick the Broncos to make the playoffs, they had that start to the season. We were laughing about it when they're getting 70 hung on them. Barnwell tweeted this today. They got 70 hung on them in that game against the Dolphins. I'm pretty sure they've given up 80 points. since. Hey, pride. Pride's a hell of a thing. It really is. Shout out to my

preseason number seven pick. Yeah, seat seven pick. That's really, really funny. So part of this, and we might as well throw this out now. It's like one of the, is it 70 points since then? Is that real? I'm probably misstating that at some point, but they're, whatever. They've given up not many points since that happened. So maybe it's over the last like several games. I don't know what Barnwell was talking about. Oh, it's 80 during their five-game win streak. Thank you very much, Beller. I'm sorry.

I'm misreading buddy's tweets in real time. My favorite thing about the Broncos, so this stat is absolutely wild. Their defense, while it was historically bad, it's been better. It's not great. Okay. They're 25th in defensive success rate since that Dolphins game. They have added 53 EPA on opponent fumbles since week four. Turnovers.

53. Okay. There is a bigger gap between them and the team at number two, which is the Giants, than the Giants and the team in 28th. That is how much value that they have created on turnovers. However, it's happening, okay? We can talk about this game specifically in a bit. They have put themselves in this conversation.

Texans are 6 and 5. Texans offense is going to lift them in these moments. Colts are 6 and 5, and the bills now are 6 and 6. where do you want to start? Which of these we just talked about the Texans a lot, okay? So which of these teams non-Texans division do you find most intriguing on this list right now? Oh, most intriguing.

I'd say the Broncos and their own weird terrible. All right, let's lead into this. What about the Broncos? Gritty way, because they have found their formula. I think on offense and defense, the defense that the stat I had looked up was since their mini-buy. They had that Thursday night game against the Chiefs.

So then they had about 10 days until their next game. And they're about league average success rate, but their fifth in EPA per play and defensive EPA for play. The dolphins are first, by the way, dolphins defense. So it's kind of what we're all seeing right now. But they're giving up plenty of explosive. The game they played on Friday night helps or the Friday afternoon helps. Yeah, you think?

Just helps a little bit. Black Friday, indeed. But they're seventh of pressure rate. So they're getting some stuff. Oh, my God. They've whacked ETR today. That was one of the biggest hits. seen in a long time.

That's one of the hardest hits I've seen in a long time. And this era of football. That was my first ever varsity experience was James Ler and I just doing that exact same thing to me. Caving your chest in? Well, not. Well, that exact hit, that was sprinted out to the right. He had a full head of steam and just, yeah, just, yeah, that was it.

That was it for my first experience on varsity. But they, but I really think the run games turned into a real strength, like in a weird way. 51.5% rushing success rate today against that Brown's team that had been phenomenal in every fast and on defense. this year. Shunk plays through the air and run the ball. That's how you have to beat that Browns defense. It's tough. But they can run with three guys. They have three legit backs that they can just pound the rock with, some different flavors with them as well, kind of like big, bigger and then very, very tiny, like kind of a funny little trio right there. But then they have their gadget player. You know,

they got Mims. Kind of gives them a little juice in the run game as well. And then they have Corlin Sutton and Russ have a fun chemistry together. Like they can get some shot place and he's running. Like Russ is running a little bit. Today specifically, He made so many plays with his legs, whether it was plays off schedule or as a runner. Like him getting this little bit of juice back to be able to move around the field the way that he is, I did not expect this to happen. Right. No. I did not expect this version of him, even a diminished version of him, but something that resembled the guy we knew to be back this season in this capacity.

And it's really given them a shot on offense. It is. I mean, they were leaning into the replays. Like, they had a whole drive where they ran like five of them. He kept a couple. He had one where he, they ran it like where they could flop it. And he ran like a nice play right up the left side line. It was a zone read arc play if you want the exact term out of splitback looks.

If you want everything. Greg Roman, Colin Kaepernick. That's exactly what it was. That's exactly it. Or Rich Rodriguez, West Virginia, if you want to go college right there. But, uh, but that's what they needed to do. That's what Nathan Hackett did wrong. He wasn't running a Pat White offense for Russ.

That's what it is. That was own Schmidt leaned up right up there on the sideline right there. Anyone under the age of like 26 is not having a good time right now. They're headbutton some helmets right now. But he's scrambled. But also like the little, like Sutton had the big play early or one of the first drives. And on that, it's a boy. It's a man coverage look where the Russian five, Schwartz likes to do that.

And Russ is kind of quasi scrambling, you know, right and incursive. like that's how I like to say in the pocket. You know, it's just that's what he does. Like honestly, if you look at the dots, it's just like it's writing cursive in the pocket. But it's kind of that, it's that Rogers bounce around in the pocket where he's buying that little bit of time

for something to just keep working. And then he hits the big play. And it's like, this kind of works. Like this kind of, this offense is working. Like it, they hit big plays through the year and they pound the rock.

It's, they've found something that really works for them. And I'm really as I watch it, I'm like, this seems sustainable again. On the other side of that game, I'm pretty concerned about the bronze. For as good as the defense has played, Denzo Ward misses this game.

You can tell the Denzo Ward misses this game. A couple different things. Bump Greg Newsom outside for stretches. He gets a P.I. They're going after the backup corner. And then Miles Garrett, now who knows how long he's going to be out. And if you saw that after the game, he was in the sling. He said he heard a pop.

He continued to play through it over the rest of the game. But they start losing pieces like that from this defense. The offense has no shot right now. They have no shot. DTR comes out, PJ Walker comes in, as much as they want to scrape this thing together with gum and toothpicks and however else we try to describe these sorts of offenses, that's possible in a world where you have the 2020 Brown supporting cast, where Conklin's playing, where Will's is playing, where Nick Chubb is playing, you have this ability to move the ball in unconventional ways. Even with the staff that I think is very creative and typically finds ways to. to survive, we've gotten to a place where even that doesn't seem feasible with the players that they have on that side. No, I have zero critiques of what the Brown's offense is trying to do. Put it that way.

When I watched them against the Steelers last week and then watching them this week, there's nothing where I'm like, why don't you try this? It's like they're trying every answer. It's not like watching the jets. No, it's not. They are trying to be as creative, as gadget plays, as safe plays, as training wheels as possible. Even the dropback plays or like I said, the day one, or I said this, a couple shows ago, but a day one staple place.

But again, that's something DTR can read out. They're trying, but this is what their makeup is. The defense is fantastic, but if you can get run on now, and games can keep that game script within reasonable measure of the entire game. It's like, that's just too hard to, again, gum and toothpicks 20 points every single week. So now with these teams kind of nipping at their heels, it really does seem like they might fall out. The Texans play the Broncos next week. Another one of those games that seemed like it would have been totally forget.

get a bull even in week three we're like ah who cares Texans Broncos and now it's a monstrous game in the aFC wildcard race so those two teams play each other so one of them will fall to six and six one of them will go to seven and five we'll see what happens with the Steelers and Broncos or see with Steelers and Browns how do you feel about Pittsburgh right now I don't know I was kind of their god they're such a weird team it's a perfect response There's so much. That is like the most pregnant laugh I've ever heard in my entire life.

There's so much in that laugh and that pause. God. Like their offense, like, again, the run game is trying to find answers, like whoever's call employees right now. I want to compare them to the rogue from X-Men where they kind of just everyone, every offense they touch every week like the Steelers do. Their offense, the Steers offense steals a little bit, like steals a concept from here, steals a concept from there.

Like today, today, they stole a play from. the Bengals, which I thought was hilarious because I could see Tomlin and the Steelers defensive coaches going like, hey, this play is good. And then going, yeah, let's install it this week. What else do we got? Because like the Najee Harris touchdown was, again, the Rams play that they took, which is like good, like good. It's good stuff. Like, once we talk about the Rams later in the show, but again, it's Alan Robinson as the power slot blocker. But it's, this defense is just like, frustrating at times, awesome at other times. Like can absolutely mall you. And like, you're just like, oh my God, no one could ever move the ball on this defense.

And at times frustrating. Again, where you're just like, they give up a huge player. What are you doing? And then the offense is the offense. They can't throw the ball consistently. And the run game is better. I will say the run game is better. So this is the first game in the post-Mack Canada era.

We were going to talk about this at some point. We might as well do it now. Yeah, let's just do it now. They had 400 yards. They hadn't had 400 yards in 50-something games. Congratulations. They had 400 yards. They still had a 39% success rate in this game.

It's not like they were consistently moving the ball. Their two biggest plays, tell me if this shocks you, let me know, a go ball down the right side line to Deonté Johnson. No way. And then it's the other one. And then a slot fade to George Pickens down the left sideline. Those are their two big plays that they had in this game. I will say, adding Friarmooth back into the mix matters.

Great call. Right? So he had nine catches in this game. And that as an intermediate option as a receiver is something they really. did not have without him in the lineup. And I think that led to them attacking areas of the field that they don't typically attack. He was, Kenny Pickett was 12 of 15 for 134 yards on throws between the numbers today. Okay.

Coming into this game, so we're in week 12, they had 113 attempts between the numbers the entire season, which is the lowest in the league. Yeah, easily. Easily the lowest in the league. Easily in the most of the league. And the one area where this was also. a little bit different today. They had nine play action dropbacks, which is the most that they have had in a single game all season now that Canada is gone.

They had 61 of them. They have 61 of them all year, which ranks 31st in the NFL. I think the first play was an under center play action to Friamuth, or at least their first big play. But it was that's the play I think they stole from the Bengals was just there was the pop pass, you know, turn like turn quarterback under center. turn power, you know, fake the power, trap pass, whatever you want to call it, but just the tight end working over the middle. You know, Burrow hits that a couple times now recently. So it's kind of funny that I know he's out now, but you can see they took it from that

offense. So I think the Fryer Moots shout out, it's a great call because you can tell he trusts him working over the, like working those stick routes. It's like if you're going to use quick game. He threw a seam ball. I was like, this is incredible. I've never seen this office this year. But if you're going to run quick game that much, you can't just threaten the outside.

We're running quick games you have to threaten the middle. You have to threaten between the hashes, much less the numbers. So getting a tight end that is a good athlete, that does some nice things. So I think that's a great call that at least gives them something. Joey Porter Jr. versus Jamar Chase, by the way, it was fun. They had them shadowing them. So I wanted to watch more of that because that was interesting. I don't know how much of the Bengals offense I'm going to be able to watch over the rest of the season.

It's just going to make me too sad. Even watching it today. To their biggest play should pick sixes. You tweeted it, which I knew you were. going to notice this. Two of the biggest play they had on offense today were tipped the balls that should have been intercepted that Jamar Chase caught. One would have been a pick six for sure because it was like full momentum going the other way. The only thing that is worth mentioning about the Bengals, because I don't want this to become the discourse around them over the course of the rest of

the year where we just say, ah, Joe Burroughs hurt, whatever. Right, right. This is a good opportunity to really kind of sit back and look at what kind of team this is as far as roster construction goes. Yeah. They, they're going to be picking a lot higher than they typically would. This is a tackle laden class. Yes. You pick a tackle in the first round of this draft.

I gave him a tackle. I'm not living with this anymore, okay? Jonah Williams, I know he was a first round pick. They bump him out to right tackle. You draft someone in this draft that you can just pop there at right tackle and have that be it. Hell, draft a guard in the second round. I don't care.

Like, this is a moment where you can really be honest with yourself about what sort of personnel you have up there, and I think that they absolutely should. So that's a part of it, and their defense continues to struggle. And the fact that the Steelers had their 400-yard game today, and that was the first one they've had in a while, their defense continues to struggle. So we're not going to bring it up all the time. They're not a team that I think is going to be relevant enough to discuss a lot over the next two months, but I don't want them to just get a pass just because Joe Burrow is not

playing. No, the other pieces of step up. And I actually think Jake Browning does, runs the offense well enough. the others can be assessed, if that makes sense. Like that, like, as far as offensively. So, again, like, he's going to handle the pocket enough. So even the offensive line could get assessed that way. It's not just the burrow magic running every single play.

But, no, I think that's a fair assessment of the defense because I've just, I've just noticed. Like, it's just like what you can do in the run game against them has just been really shocking to me. And it just doesn't feel like they, they get enough big plays. And over the middle of the field, teams have been cooking them. Tight ends have been cooking them. Oh, it's fine. Logan Wilson got burned or he got called for PI in this game. They were attacking them. All the overrouts.

Yes. And that's the safeties too. You know, it's the spine of the defense is what we were concerned about coming into the year with them losing both of those guys. And it has continued to be an issue. DJ Turner also had a rough game today. Yeah, yeah, burned on the go route. Deante Johnson roasted him for a touchdown that should have happened.

He didn't control the ball to the ground. So just stuff to keep an eye on. The last thing that I don't know what to make of it, the Deontte Johnson non-effort on the fumble. You see you tweeted about it. Kind of shocking. Yeah. He was just like, get him next.

time? Is that what he said when he tweeted? I don't know what to make of that because the report came out. I think it was this morning. Adam Schaefter said that there was the fight in the locker between him and Minka Fitzpatrick last week. So I don't know how much is brewing under the surface there or something to keep an eye on, but a little bit surprising when you consider what the strengths of this organization have been under Tomlin. And for the most part, they've been able to keep all of that stuff in house. We didn't hear a word about Antonio Brown for like six years. That's the greatest coaching job ever was Mike Tomlin keeping all that stuff.

Am I wrong? No, you're not. It's just like how you said that was just like a great point of emphasis. It's like we didn't hear about that. It's like yeah, that's exactly true. And they're the fifth seed right now. It's not like they're like, you know, like they have a losing record and they're falling apart. It's like, no, they're actually playing a good ball.

I'm not going to be, I'm not going to do the, oh, who can catch who and how is this going to shake out? Because it's just a losing battle. It's not worth putting that on tape on November 27th. that I'm going to be wrong in two weeks. The last team we have not discussed as part of this conversation. How are you feeling about the Indianapolis cults right now? I'm, they're well coached.

I'm feeling good. Okay, all right. So is that it? Is it, I got some good vibes around this team or this team can make the playoffs? Good vibes as opposed to, I think they can make the playoffs. I think the defense is getable,

and I think it's Gardner Minshu. That would be my like, but I do think, like, they just ran nothing. He was got a few different times today. Yeah. They ran, both of my gosh,

a couple dropped picks. And they ran about 40 RPOs. Like every RPO you can think of they ran today. I mean, it worked. Like smoke them if you got them. But it's that I just thought like he's a reminder. It's like, oh yeah. Oh, yeah.

But I do like what they're doing. I'm very, Colts, you know, two thumbs up what the Colts are doing right now. But if they make the playoffs, sure, why not. But I just think they're punching about their way a little bit right now. Yeah, I tend to agree. The offense has been, I mean, insanely watchable compared to what it could have been. without Anthony Richardson and at this stage of their building process.

So, I mean, that was them playing as well as they have, even though the underlying numbers are not as impressive as some of the big outputs that they've had. What they consistently do is interesting. It's fun. It's creative. Even the couple four downs that they hit today, right? So you have Michael Pittman lined up close to the formation on a fourth and one. They know they're in man coverage based on the motion that they run.

And I think his guy was in the run fit. So he has to defend the run. Pittman sneaks out to the left, huge completion, big time going forward on fourth and one near midfield. Again, design coaching decision. Points for Shane Stiking. Later in the game, another fourth and one near midfield. Heavy, heavy, heavy play action, great ball handling by Gardner Minchu. Finds Mo Ali Cox for a huge play down the field.

Oh, yeah, that was great. So they're consistently doing that kind of stuff where you notice the play as you're either watching the game out of the corner of eye or flashes on red zone. And it's like, oh, okay, all right. That's kind of how I feel about them right now. That's where I sit with this team, even if I do feel like all of this is house money and there's still one, two, three steps away. Yeah. And, man, if they had, you know, their top five draft pick quarterback right now, I'd be singing

a pretty, probably totally different tune, maybe, but that matters when you're especially talking about the AFC playoffs and we'll see in who else is just looming right now. But again, I love all those examples that you brought up because that's how it feels. It feels like, all right, yeah, they always come up like the Browns game a couple weeks ago. It's like, oh, my God, they're just scoring again. Another big play. All right. Here's Jonathan Taylor.

Just running another touchdown. Oh, Zach Moss, sure. Why not? Michael Pittman, another crosser for seven yards. The king of the eight yard game, Michael Pittman. Here's what I'll say. Every single guy within the offense is the best version of himself right now. Michael Pittman, what they're getting out of Josh Downs.

Think about the way this offensive line looked last year and the way that. this offensive line looks now. And that's all you want. With a new staff, especially an offensive-minded staff, where that's supposed to be his calling card when he comes in, all you want is to be getting the most out of the pieces you already had on the roster. And that's exactly what they are doing right now. Yeah. How I feel about the Colts of offense right now. But the thing is, it's like, same defense, well, defense coaches there. Yeah. And they are playing inspired ball and playing good ball and playing like just, again, their pieces make sense. But how I feel about the Ravens defense and the Colts offense is similar.

Everyone's getting used to their fullest potential and getting used in exactly how they should be used. It's like, again, what is that? What is that? That's good coaching. And yeah, that's what the Colts have right now. Colts remaining schedule. Beller put this in to the little rundown. I think you did it for a reason.

At Tennessee. Okay. At Jake Browning. Okay. Versus the Steelers. At Atlanta. Ooh. Vegas.

Texans. Oh. Oh, those are some some potentially juicy games. I don't know. I don't know. It's a weird situation with these teams all kind of muddled up here. But I'm not throwing them out. I am not saying this is fluky.

That's the most important thing I think of all this. Absolutely not. I think again, the good vibes and the good feelings, it's just about whether it extends to them making the playoffs or them just being kind of a warm and fuzzy story. Man, we're still quiet. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. The Patriots lost a game today in which the other team essentially could not move the football.

Okay. The Giants had a 26.4% success rate. It was negative 0.31 EPA per play. For context, the Jets are averaging negative 0.24 for the season. It's one of the worst five seasons in the last 10 years. Okay. We're talking like Josh Rosen Cardinals at negative 0.24. The Giants were negative 0.3-1 today.

They averaged 3.1 yards per rush. Tommy DeVito was sacked six times. The Giants had 10 first downs. They won the football game. Somehow. That is where the Patriots are right now. And this really does feel at the end of it all, all of the back and forth, who's going to start a quarterback,

what's going to happen with the Patriots, what's going to happen with Bill Belichick. There are so many looming questions about the future of this organization. I think we have one pretty definitive. answer, and that is at the Mac Jones era in New England, we have shut the door on that. I would be very surprised if we saw him again after the entire week that unfolded and him getting yanked at half time. This isn't him getting yanked in the fourth quarter of a blowout.

This isn't even last week when they pulled him later in the game. This is him getting pulled at half time. So this really does feel like the end of an era for a guy that was picked in the middle of the first round, and at least during his first year as a starter, looked at the very least, like a functional NFL quarterback. And now two years later, three years into his career as a guy drafted in the first round, it feels like it's over. And I'll swear there's still a competent quarterback in there until I shrink into a corn cob. They have ruined this guy. He is broken, dude. He is absolutely broken. It is hard to watch him play. This is a psycho-competent.

competitive guy who I really I truly do think he understands the game and sees the game well. I love his pre-snap stuff. I love how he usually can progress. And he's a, you know, he's got a little Duke basketball player kind of, you know, competitiveness to him. I'll put it that way. A little Grayson Allen. You mean people think he's a dickhead? Yes, that, that might be it. Might be some, you know, Thai cop, cleats in the air going on with him. But you see him kind of just throw balls and just shrug his shoulders. It was like, you got this psycho-competitive guy shrugging his shoulders. Like, what happened? What do you guys do? You're so right. Every time he threw the ball in this game, and it was more than three or four yards down field, it feels like he's like tucking away as he throws it.

That there is just such a detachment in the way that he was playing the position this season. The numbers on it are insane. He was one of nine on throws of more than five air yards in this game. He had as many interceptions as he had completions. And it wasn't even like he was. he was trying to fit balls in. It was just desperation heaves every time they actually asked him to make a throw in this game. It was hard to watch. Again, it was tough. I've seen this guy ripovers and corners throwing it on time and stuff.

It's like, it's there. It's there. Like, you know, I've seen this guy play confident. Tommy DeVito, I know we're talking about Mac Jones, but Tommy DeVito finished with the QBR of 7.4. And somehow Mac Jones had a lower QBR of 7.2. And against the Giants defense, it's like, who can be crazy but can be getable as well. And he only took one sack for zero yards. So that means throwing the ball that he was that negative.

And it just felt like, you know, you see some of the lack of creation, like the interception that he tried to throw, I think it was an angle route to Douglas or a choice route. He's getting pressured. He has to assume. And again, that's how he has to play. But again, you see his limitations show up in those types of moments. But also, like, you watch that offense and they're doing, and this play did work. But you see them doing the fake snap thing, you know, where Matt Jones jumps in the air.

or I think it was Bailey Zappy jumps in the air and they get the first down in short yards. They snap it directly to a runoffack. It's like, you guys are still doing that shit in 2023. You guys are still doing that? That's number 12 back there. That's not that play anymore. It's like the fact that they're still doing that. And then they miss the field goal.

I was like, that's the Patriots right then there. That they're still doing the stuff, even though their quarterbacks are totally different than Tom Brady was before. Their personnel is totally different. The makeup their team is different. It's just like, I'm watching the Giants offense with freaking DeVito doing so much more creative stuff with a guy that they care less about. I'm sorry, that's mean, but just a guy that he's not part of their plan. He was never part of their plan. And this guy's a first round pick and they just don't do anything to help him. This is what I keep coming back to when people start talking

about, well, what if Belichick went to Washington and what if Belichick went here? What happened with Mack Jones over the last two years should disqualify you from being an NFL coach again? It doesn't matter what you've done in the past. If I was a fan and if I was a fan and if I was looking at him going to my team. Let's say they draft a quarterback. Let's say that he is still the coach there and they draft Drake May or Caleb Williams because they're in a position to do that. You feel good about that?

You feel good about this group overseeing the career of that next guy because what is going to happen? This is going to be inevitable. People are going to look at what Mack Jones has been over the last two years and he has been bad, okay, of 44 quarterbacks with at least 200 attempts over the last two seasons. He has 40 at the need paper dropback. Here are the guys who were worse. Deshawn Watson, Zach Wilson, Bryce Young, PJ Walker.

That's it. He was in the middle of the pack as a rookie. People are going to sit there and say, he just never had it. Mac Jones sucks. He was a bust. He never had it. And even if he never had the ceiling that some of these other guys had,

he was a perfectly functional NFL quarterback as a rookie. For them to have the plan they did last season, where they hand-waved this shit with Matt Patricia and Joe Judge, and they were just like, we'll figure it out. It's unacceptable. It is unacceptable. And it led to what we have seen with the slide that we've seen from this guy. For you to do that to a guy you drafted in the first round that was a perfectly functional

player during his first season, it's horrifying what has happened to them. And the process and so many things that they have done has been so bad. And it has now put them in this moment. I mean, there are times where he's a legendary coach, things kind of fizzled out in the wrong way. Like he just needs a reset. That's not what this is. There have been so many awful missteps that they have made, especially in the offensive side of the ball, and especially with this guy.

It's hard for me to see anything else other than malpractice when it comes to this. Yeah. Week 1 of 2022 against the Dolphins is, again, the game that always stand out to me. And it's Mack Jones flailing around, trying to get the play saying, get everyone organized. Those guys are like misaligned, trying to get a protection check, gets the protection check right, and two guys botch, and he gets sawed in half. And that play is like, I felt bad for this guy because he, had no chance, even though he was trying at that time. It was week one in 2022. It was before he was

broken. And right there, I was like, this is their plan? This is what they're trying to go with. Okay, maybe it'll get better. Like, maybe they, no way, Belichick will do this. Like, just let this go. And you let it go. And it got worse. And you're seeing all just all the cracks and all the sides and everything. It felt almost fitting that this, I know we're talking about Mac Jones, but the fitting that was like they lost today or could have tied it on the misfield goal. And it's like how far they've come from Vinatari. Like, just like, that's what happens. Didn't every Patriots game feel inevitable?

It was like, oh, here they come back. Here comes the winning field goal. They don't make mistakes. And all they do now feels like is they're making mistakes, offense, defense, and special teams. That is just the opposite of what this ethos of this organization is supposed to be. So I echo what your statement was saying. And think about the personnel.

The guys he was throwing the ball to in this game. Oh, yeah. Juju gets four targets. He has two catches for 10 yards. Do you see the catch that Jacopi Myers made today? You see the plays that Jacoby Myers has made within that Raiders offense over the course of the entire year? The offensive line. The state of the offensive line in what it looks right now.

Connor McDermott starting at left tackle. You got a, I believe City sounds like a fourth round pick that's starting at right guard. You've had so many guys. Michael and Wenu, who looked like a pro bowl guard for stretches over the last couple of years, that will bump him out to tackle. We'll see how it goes. Play a bunch of guys that have never played on the interior. They threw the ball to Pop Douglas nine times because he's the only.

guy with any sort of pop, any sort of juice on the entire team. He is sick, though. He is sick. He is a cool player. But that's it. Like that's what they've got. Oh, no. So just everything about this over the last two years. The big slow twitch receivers. It's like, no, you got to be, and that's the thing. The receivers are dope for a life. I can't remember who was. I think it was a Dori Jackson. The first one that they ran, I think it was the Devante Parker on the first drive. He was laughing. He was laughing that they would try to do that in that moment. Because he had inside, Inside shade at 10 yards. So they ran a slant route into it inside, inside leverage corner against cover zero.

So that's the thing. They don't have freedom to run an out route there or a go ball. Yeah, just, I know. It's just, what is this? What is this offense supposed to be? It's just so frustrating. And this is it? And so now the other impact of this game, the Patriots now have two wins.

They are looking real solid to get one of those top two picks in this draft potentially, or a top three pick in this draft. Cardinals are now two and ten. So they're sitting there. Washington has four wins now. The Giants have four wins now. God help me saying this. I think the Bears are playing well enough that they will probably win another game or two in the second half of the season just by virtue.

But the Panthers aren't. That's why I don't care. That's why I do not care if the bears end up with five, six wins because as things are currently going, I'm feeling really nice about the way that the Carolina Panthers look. I kind of, we'll get to this in a little bit and it's not what we're talking about. But the Patriots are sitting there and they are very likely going to be picking in the top three of this draft with the way the things are heading. And I just don't know who's going to oversee that entire process. I don't know.

That's insane to think about. But that's how it feels, though. It's not, it's like the fact that we're talking about this does not feel like any, like this feels so deserved about how this is all gone, how this all feels right now. All right. It's time for the Sunday notebook. Let's do a little roundup with some other stuff we saw. today. Kyrin Williams, have a day.

200 yards from scrimmaged on 22 touches, two touchdowns, third 100-yard game in his last four that he has been healthy. He looks fantastic within this offense. And this offense in general was just humming in this game. And now the Rams, come hell or high water somehow, are still in this conversation now at 5 and 6. Yeah. Another offense that's Nate approved, two thumbs up.

This is how they're using, well, not only Kyron Williams, it's, Cameron Williams is the ultimate trust the tape, like example of more than anyone, because he was a stud at Notre Dame. My comparison firm was James White, and because I just thought, oh, it's going to be a good pass catching back. You know, he's going to be just a nice, solid running back. If you look, he's just like his fundamentals. He is like what I talk about, like DAC with quarterbacks.

That's like him kind of like the running backs. Him and like David Montgomery, just always square the shoulder, like, shoulders square to the line of scrimmage as they kind of cut back and forth, hit the hole with the right tempo. And then you see him open up and you're like, oh, yeah, there's that 4-7 as he tries to run away. But it's like, hey, up until about 18 yards, he's good to go. But I love this Rams run game because they, they know the meta right now. The best run concept in the NFL right now is duo. And I'm not saying that as a joke. Again, that is what is the best against what defenses are trying to do with all the funky looks. The ramps have figured that out. So they're trying to

figure out every different which way to get to duo, which is just at you run game. And Kyrie Williams is really good at it. But watching how they use Pooka Nakua, this is like Scars Guard plus now. Pukina Kua is like they're getting to like fullback looks out of 11 where they just motion him and have him basically lead block. It's like, yeah, this is the, this offense like really rocks. Like this outside zone bunch heavy team has turned into a slot heavy eye formation out of 11 personnel team.

So it's 11 like 21, so 11 like 12. But yeah, big two thumbs up about what the Rams are doing right now. I love one of my favorite things about the 2017, 2018 Rams was the screen game. Their screen game was unbelievable. When they were homin with Gurley, all of those play action screens, there was this entire idea is the foundation of like the Sean McVe offense in version 1.0. Illusion of complexity. Okay.

Things are going to unfold the exact same way. single early down. It is either going to be a zone run, a boot, or a screen off of that play action. We could do one of those three things. That was enough in 2018 football, 2017 football, to ruin teams. This is how far our defense has come in the last five years, which we've discussed. But they hit so many running back screens to Gurley. Go look at Todd Gurley's receiving stats. They're all 17. It's crazy. And they went away from that for the most part over the last couple years. The running back just was not a part of their passing game for the most part. And whether that was personnel or just the design of the offense, you just didn't see much of it.

Today, watching some of those screen designs to Carrie Williams, I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, we're back, baby. Like, this is really fun to watch. And then one more shout out on the Rams before we move on. There are so many little moves that teams have made personnel-wise that have come up huge. We've talked about a bunch of them on this show. George Fant getting signed by the Texans and him being able to provide them quality right tackle play, allowing Titus Howard to play guard when they've had injuries on the interior. I know Titus Howard got hurt today.

Huge move. The Rams trading for Kevin Dotson on the eve of the trade deadline and being able to just plug him in as they're starting right guard. That dude has been awesome. He wiped out a guy on that guy when Williams touchdown today. He has been so good. And for him to be a guy they got on labor. day weekend essentially. The Rams personnel staff has done a phenomenal job over the last 12 months or so.

The draft, obviously, what they've done, Nakua, Byron Young, all the guys they found. But getting that and making that move right in the evening of the season has been quietly important just for the construction of their offense. Yeah. Self-scout and an opponent scout and basically learning what the league's going to and being creative. I think as far as offense and defense, I think Raheem Morris is doing a nice job, giving and what his personnel as and also just the personnel should be in the head coach conversation

again this offseason. You would 100% should be. I think the Rams definitely ate their vegetables and their fruit this off season. I think of the entire building. And I think they are reaping some of the benefits of like real hard work because what they've done is a lot of hard work. They are playing with house money right now in the sense that this was not supposed to be a competitive year.

I think their over under was like six wins. They're supposed to be one of the worst teams in the league. Now they're in the wild card conversation. and one game out of the seven seed in the NFC. Another team in that same sort of discussion that is worth hitting on, even though they played on Thanksgiving, feeling the exact same way about the Packers right now. Packers are five and six with the youngest offense in the entire league.

Their quarterback is playing really good football, and now you have these two five and six teams with their own individual LeFlebrother that are knocking potentially on the door of the NFC playoff picture in a year where, It seemed at times, whether it was before the year for the Rams or it stretches during the year for the Packers, when this might have been a lost season. So hard not to just be soaking in the vibes if you root for either one of these teams right now. Featuring, yeah, two trick shot artist quarterbacks.

Just, yeah, Jordan Love, though, is seeing the game really well. That Thanksgiving performance was fantastic, but this is what that's been built, or the last month and a half, monthish, that's really been building to that. They're getting kind of cohesion on the offensive line. the young guys are starting to get better. Jane Reed looks like a stud. Christian Watson's holding onto the ball. Tucker Kraft steps up. He's really come along this last month as Luke Musgrave kind of battles a spleen, I believe, a lacerated spleen. I lacerated my kidney in high school. It sucked. But yeah, so I know that pain.

It's awful. My junior year, I got rocked until I started gaining weight my senior year. I took some hard hits in high school. But the young guys are coming along, offense and defense. So I feel good about the Packers because that quarterback, Jordan Love is playing really good football right now. Packers fans should feel really good, especially how it felt maybe about six weeks ago, because how he's seeing the game, again, feels sustainable. It's not just the highs with the trick shots right now. There can be some big games in the NFC North down the stretch of this season. I mean, if you're wanting one of those teams to make the playoffs, Packer fans are going to be watching that Vikings Bears game tomorrow with pretty watchful eye.

I will be as well. but there's an awesome fatal four way back of the day of WWF so it's Chris Jericho what's it's almost 1 am i'm Eddie Guerrero and a guy I can't name because of stuff that happened and then Xbox but it really feels like the Bears are like Xbox and that little like all these like role class wrestlers out there's either the nicest or meanest thing you could say about the Chicago Bears right now doing some fun things but also like oh you're still doing the kung fu stuff in 2001 so yeah that's I think that's what that kind of feels like with the UFC North yeah what time is it

at 950. All right, we already talked about the Steelers without Matt Canada. No reason to kind of keep digging into that and keep picking that scab. Rishie Rice breakout game, in your opinion, eight catches, 10 targets, 107 yards. How are you feeling about the Rishie Rice game as the Chiefs kind of try to find themselves offensively? I feel like more it was like a Chief's coaching staff understanding their personnel breakout game. I think Rishie Rice ran nothing but crossers and screens. It was crossers receiver screen, gave Chip help, got a little check down there.

But hit you go at the end of the game. So it was great ball skills. That's how I remember in my SME. It was the only play he made in structure in the entire game. Yeah. It was the double move on the outside. The only other time they tried to throw him the ball within like the rhythm of a play, he dropped it.

And then it was all crossers and out of schedule, off schedule place. The guy is clearly talented, but I don't see this as some sort of turning of the page. in terms of usage, but I still feel like there's a long way to go for him to be an integrated part of who they are offensively, is what I said. I think it's just the route running is going to come in practice, but how they used them in this game, it makes more sense for his skill set. I think the most important thing of this Chiefs game today was how the run game looked. So I think that's the biggest takeaway. And also shout out to the toughness of Max Crosby. A lot of stats about doubtful injury designations I read today, which I was not expecting to read and week 12. It's

20, 23. But yeah, shout to Max Crosby and his toughness as well. One other guy I wanted to shout out in what was a huge win for the Falcons, they don't win this game without Jesse Bates. Jesse Bates makes two monstrous plays in the red zone. And what I said in the moment that the interception happened, the pick six happened, it was like an Ed Reed sort of play. Like some of those picks down in that area where you get an interception, corners are breaking on routes where their guy is the one who's targeted. It's a tipped ball. It's an overthrow. Go back and watch that play. He is the center field safety sitting there near the goalpost. He reads it the entire way, comes all the way down and picks off a slant and takes it to the house.

And every single person was like, while Derek Carr was staring it down, sure. But it's not a linebacker making that play. No. He's playing as the center field safety. Yeah, it was a sick play. Jesse Bates playing like an all pro this year. If you wonder if the Bengals miss them, they do. Also, people overrate the whole staring down thing.

Yeah, NFL quarterbacks have to because it happens in two seconds. What do you think happens? There's only certain plays that look off happen. Like Josh Allen, give him a little shoulder shimmy, shoulder shimmy. Shoulder shimmery? Shoulder shirmery. Should shishers. Shishol shishels.

But that happens because it's down the field. Like quick game stuff is boom, boom. There's not a lot of looking off happening. So it was just a great play by him. And then he punched the other ball out. Punch it out. Nothing cheap about that one either. He's been fantastic all year.

He's been a really, really good player. It's the other. It's Richie Grant. that kind of gets targeted of their little duo back there. It's like the non-A.J. Trail, non-J. Troll, non-J. Bates, D.Bs for the Falcons that kind of get picked on. Well, the other element of this game for Atlanta, I mean, again, some tough turnovers. You know, Desmond Ritter, I think was fine. I think there's some stuff to build on from that game.

But the other really impressive part to me was what they looked like in the four-minute drill today. They were unbelievable in that stretch. So they get the ball. the Saints kick a field goal, which that's what the Saints did today, is the Saints kick a field goals, but the Saints kick a field goal at 624 in the fourth quarter. From there, Bijan for four, Alger for 12, Alger for four, Alger for nine, Bijan for nine, false start, doesn't matter, Alger for 12 more, and then CPAT for a couple more runs. So they chew off a good four and a half minutes of clock during that stretch before kicking a field goal.

But their ability to just run the ball consistently in those moments and their ability to assert themselves on the ground today was impressive. As the quarterback tries to find himself, find some confidence, the way that they could kind of really inflict their will in the most important part in the game, I think was really, really cool to see. Somebody if you heard this before, Ritter played well, except for some turnovers. But I thought the Saints field goal decision was just like, why? The Falcons, before that drive you're talking about, they just ripped off a nine-play drive for a touchdown where you could tell that they were definitely clicking. They went to just the zone runs, inside zone, outside zone, split zone, a zone, two three zone, one-three one zone. But that's what the, the Falcons got it. And like, shout out to Caleb McGarry.

He kept hooking the D-Ns for the Saints. And that's why they just kept getting to the outside. The Falcons just had so many runs go up the sideline all to the right, if you noticed, because he was really doing a nice job hooking. So shout out, he had a really nice game today, I thought. But, yeah, the Falcons had a 19% explosive pass, rush, and play rate today. They were gashing them. And like you said, that four minute drive was just run after run after run.

They didn't overthink it, but they got to different personnel groupings and they found a run that worked for them. It was what you wanted to see out of this Falcons team. Like that's why I get high on them sometimes. Yeah, and we'll see what happens. I mean, it's obviously that battle is going to be worth monitoring down the stretch. And the Saints have their moments. Chris Olavay looked really good in the first half of this game before getting hurt. Oh, she's got banged up, man.

So it's, again, it's kind of a pillow fight for who's going to win that division. But I still feel pretty good about some of the things the Falcons are doing. And I just am more interested in them when Ritter is playing. So last thing to keep an eye on here, the Panthers losing today, the way the Panthers lost today, the way their offense continues to look, it just feels like we should be monitoring what's going to happen with Frank Greg. I think there was a Porter, I'm again, I apologize, I couldn't remember who it was. Apparently, Tepper's just yelling fuck when he walks out of the locker room today.

Like, it's good. Things are devolving there in a pretty obvious way. So I would not be surprised. Boo earns. I wish Pooka Naku was on the ramps could be like, Fuka. That's what he's going to be. Bravo. No, it's 1 a.m.

That's all we got today. Sincerely appreciate you guys checking us out. Please come back and listen to Kiefer and the Beats. This week, Daniel Popper, who covers the Chargers for us, coming out to chat about another situation where some seats are probably getting a little bit warm out there in Los Angeles. Brooks Kubina, I believe that's how you pronounce it. He's our new Eagles writer. I haven't met Brooks yet.

So he's covering the Eagles for us. He's going to come on and chat about that huge Eagles win against the bills today. and James Boyd, who covers the Colts for us coming on to chat about this feel-good Indianapolis Colts team led by a guy in Shane Steak and who's doing a really nice job. For now, though, that is all we've got. Please do me a favor. Just a couple favors if you guys have time this week. Consider it a holiday gift to me. This is your Black Friday purchase for the Athletic Football Show.

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