The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 13 Hangover: Division-leading Broncos and Buccaneers get wins, and we get in the muck with Saints-Dolphins

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

It doesn't always have to be pretty, especially when you're stacking wins. The Broncos and Buccaneers can tell themselves that after picking up victories over the Commanders and Cardinals, respectively, in Week 13. Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen dig into both of those games on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. Then, they do some necessary due diligence and check in on the Saints and Dolphins. Finally, the guys wrap up the episode with sad voicemails from Lions and Colts fans.Connect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. The week 13 hangover was a fun one. Me and Derek hit three games, started things off with the Sunday night football game between the commanders and the Broncos, chatted a little bucks cardinals, dug into the dolphins and the saints.

Had a, what I would classify as kind of a surprising conversation about what we think the dolphins future should look like. I don't think I planned on landing where I did in that discussion about the five and seven dolphins. But let's be honest, it's been a weird year in the end. NFL on a bunch of different levels. So very much enjoyed this conversation with Derek. Let's get to it right now. It's the week 13 hangover here on the athletic football show.

We're hitting three games today. A little bit later, we'll chat about Buck's Cardinals. Also dig into Dolphin Saints. I want to say right now, I apologize for making you watch Dolphin Saints. I'm sorry about that. Can I say really quickly, not the worst game I think I watched of these three, or at least the least frustrating. There was another one that I thought. That's an interesting take. I wanted to watch Dolphin Saints because I was like, all right, it's time to check in with where the Saints are and try to figure out what we think about them heading into the off season. And I think it's important to have some touch points with teams that are out of it. And about halfway through that thing, I was like, oh, Derek's going to be so mad that I made him rewatch this game.

It was bad quality football, but I expected it to be. So it kind of came back around to where I was like, I can find what I want to enjoy here. I think the first game we're going to talk about. I actually had a much worse time watching. The Sunday night football game, you had a worst time watching? I hate watching the Broncos offense. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

What is your problem now? Let's get into this. Let's talk about the Sunday night game. We did not get a chance to hit it last night. Obviously, an exciting finish. I think there's a lot to chew on here. I didn't expect to be this to be the note on which we started this discussion. I just don't like the way the offense functions.

Like, first of all, I really want them to run the. ball more, but I understand now they're kind of in a position without J.K. Dobbins, that they don't feel as comfortable doing some of that? You don't think RJ Harvey is a workhorse? The play that he bounced, I think it was at some point in the second half, where he has like five free yards if he just slams it up the B gap. And he tries to bounce it and only gets two. And I'm like, this is why Sean Payton is irritated with this player, even though he obviously wanted him before the draft. Did you see some of their advanced numbers in this game running the ball? Mm-mm. They had negative 41. one rush yards over expectation.

They averaged negative two rush yards over expected per attempt. Negative two. Those are all the rushing numbers. I'm like, I like to take them with like a real grain of salt. Because I do think that there's some messiness and how that stuff gets calculated. But that is an indication that the holes were there and they were not exploited by the Broncos rushing attack in this game. And even just think about the team that they're playing.

like we know that there are going to be holes there to run against this Washington front. Like that's been the issue for this team for a large part of the season. And so I think I was frustrated with the offense that way. I also just like, we've talked about it before. I just, they hit some nice plays in the passing game. And I actually thought some of what they did with like their chunk play action game. Like very early on, they hit like a hard play action shot to, I think it was Troy Frank. And he was running like one of those deep stop comeback routes.

I want more of that because the best thing that their receivers do is they clear out vertical and then they can kind of stop on a dime and come back and bow nix has the arm for some of those throws i just think outside of that and some of their swing and like screen game the passing offense just irritates the ever loving shit out of me constantly yeah this game specifically i wasn't that frustrated with it even if i didn't really enjoy a lot of the experience of watching it simply because of how was playing in this game i mean it was all just soft zone and umbrella coverage, essentially the entire game from Washington. So looking at it, it was kind of staggering.

The number is absolutely matched up with the eye test, though. They played about 70% too high. Washington did over the course of this game. And that led to just like a lot of underneath completions for Bo Nex. It was just a lot of taking what was there on checkdowns and just underneath options throughout this entire game. My favorite's that, I think there were like 13, I think it was 12 attempts against cover two over the course of the game, which is a lot in any single game.

Washington played at about 25% of the time. He averaged 2.5 air yards per attempt on those throws against cover 2. Here's the funniest part. He had a 3.55 average time to throw on those plays where he averaged a 2.5 air yards per attempt. Simply against, it's all we're bleeding out and I'm just checking it down. But that was a huge chunk of what the passing offense was in this game. And that is what I mean because it's not like there weren't throws there to be made

further down the field. And that I think is my ultimate frustration is that there were throws there for, uh, for him to make if he wanted them. I, he reminds me a lot of like the worst versions of Derek Carr where it's a lot of like kind of scared to throw into tight windows over the middle of the field every now. Little skittish in the pocket. Little skittish in the pocket. Loves to check down. Uh, it's going to still throw like two or three like pure go balls down the field. And he tried to do that a couple of times in this game. And so you'll get some of that. But just like, I think the inability to access and be really aggressive over the intermediate parts of the field. I think we're frustrating. Like there was on late in the first quarter. There was a third and nine. Pat

Brian is in the slot on the right hand side. He runs this like over the ball route right at the sticks. And he is wide open in between those two high safeties. And Nick's just turns it down, throws the little swing to I think Tyler Beatty. And he only gets five and they don't convert the third down. And it's like those plays not being able to convert or even try some of those. that's ultimately where my frustration lands. So you can move the ball scheming up two or three of these chunk plays. You check the ball down a ton and you're fishing with that. And then you get one, I'll give him his credit.

The touchdown he throws to Cortland Sutton is bonkers like right before the half. And so that formula of one cool play, couple of shot plays checkdowns, you can move the ball that way. It's just every time I watch this offense, I feel like there's more left on the bone that they're just not getting to. And it's frustrating. I can understand where you're coming from with that. don't think my take on it was quite as pessimistic or frustrated coming out of this just because I do think that for most of the game, it was a reasonable way to move the ball against the way that Washington was playing on defense. I sure did that exact same play, though. It was late in the

first quarter. It was like in the shadow of their own end zone and he checks it down and the right flat, even though Pat Bryant is wide open. The only other one where I was like, come on, man, there was late in the game, they had a third and ten on the drive right before. the big Alex Singleton PbU. So it was late in the game as they were kind of going back and forth. There was a third and 10 that he checks down. It was like a perfect Bronco sequence.

On second down, they run a sprint out that takes away half the field. He has to dirt it on second and 10, Bo does. And then on third down, he checks it down six yards to serve the line of scrimmage and they have to punt the ball.

So that one you're talking about with Bryant and then the one in the fourth quarter. Those are the only two where I was like, I kind of want a little bit more here. For the most part, I was okay with how he approached it. And there were two drives that I think, exemplified this exactly what you're talking about, where it's like, you know, we'll take it, we'll take it, we'll take it, one cool play.

It was the two-minute drive that ended with that Sutton touchdown. They had multiple checkdowns on that drive. Sutton runs a little slant against cover two that he does a great job of pushing up into the corner. Bo hits that. They run a little whip route to Evan Ingram as the number three and empty against Bobby Wagner, which was the same thing they did when they hit the juke route in overtime. And then right back to a little option route to Ingram in the slot against Will Harris

on that drive. and then he finishes it off with the sudden touchdown. It's like, okay, we have a lot of modest decisions and modest choices in the passing game, followed by one cool play when we get a touchdown. And then their drive to open the second half, he has that, he has three third down conversions on that drive

that ended up getting them in the end zone, including what I thought was, to me, the most frustrating moment of the entire game from Washington's defense. On a third and 11, with like seven and a half minutes left in the third quarter, they do a drop eight, there's nobody open.

Bo decides that the play is over, right? He actually drops his eyes. He's ready to kind of just like turtle up in the pocket. He realizes that no one is converging on him because there's only three pass rushers, gets his eyes back up field and throws the ball 30 yards to Cortland Sutton. Later in the game, on a huge, like, third and medium, they did a drop eight, which is great.

On third and four, drop eight is great because you're going to get guys into passing lanes against quick game stuff. On third and 10, I don't want to have that. And so on that third and that third. third and ten, they convert it, the Broncos go down and they score a touchdown for 20 to 14. But after those two drives in the second half, then things just went off the rails. Then you have the pick to Bobby Wagner, you have the sacky takes on the play against with Frankie Louvre, and then the entire Broncos offense kind of sputters until that final drive in overtime.

Yeah, I think that was my, I will say, them being as like checkdown heavy as they were and kind of playing that way. I do think for the purposes of this game, it was probably fine to win this game. I think you making the point of like modesty winning this game was probably fine. I think just that's not my preferred style of quarterback play. And so sometimes I struggle to fully buy into that. And then in some of the cases where he did try to get aggressive,

that interception he throws to Bobby Wagner is, that is terrible. Bobby Wagner starts to play, by the way, with his right foot on the hash, on the left hash mark. By the time he catches the interception, his left foot is standing on the left hash mark. Like he didn't move the entire play. And Bo Nix just tries to fit it right past him. And I was like, man, you cannot do that.

And so I think that part got the offense really off the rails a bit. And then honestly, the one that I will not hit Bo Nix for that he actually misses is a late conversion in the game. It's the fourth quarter. There's about three minutes left. It's a third and four. The one time in this game that Bo Nix tries to anticipate a window in the quick game and throw it past the player, Jacob Martin is popping out of the, I think, the A gap into coverage. And he's trying to throw the spot route to Corlin Sutton right behind him.

But Martin does an awesome job like jamming Corton and Sutton can't get around. And I was like, man, the one time Bo Nix makes like an awesome play in the quick game, Sutton gets jammed and can't get there. And so it was a little bit of a mix of everything. That was the drop-bait play that I was talking about. It was a really good call defensively in that specific situation. I like it a lot more there than I do on 3rd and 11 when you're giving him an hour to make that play from the pocket. So yeah, I don't think it was a perfect game.

I'm okay with the way that they approached it for the most part. they were very consistent in moving the ball pretty efficiently until those final few drives in the fourth quarter and that's what allowed Washington to kind of stay in this game. I will say though, I mean, Washington had to get the, obviously the late field goal to tie the game and then they go down and we'll talk about the end of game sequence where they end up going for two and losing.

But for the most part, in this game, I thought that Washington moved the ball very efficiently and there were some huge mistakes that ended up coming back to really bite them. I mean, the drive that ends with the Mariota pick, Mariotta, I'm sorry, the drive that ends with the Mariotta pick to Drake Glelaw, that's just a heinous decision. Like, I mean, there is just no defending that whatsoever. Can I say so? I feel like, so we pin, we pin Bozo on so many quarterbacks, Carson, Wence, Will, Levis, Blake Bortles, all these guys. Mariotta is super underrated like Bozo Gene.

He does some really stupid stuff. And I don't think that was true early in his career or coming out of college. But I think ever since he lost the starting job the first time in Tennessee, he's had some like, what are we doing, man? My favorite part about that play is that he has a ton of space in the pocket. If you watch that play unfolding, he has a ton of space in the pocket. And for some reason, he starts sprinting toward the line of scrimmage. I think in his mind he saw space to scramble.

And that's what he was trying to do. And then that space condenses and the defense converges. and so he has to pull up mid-scramble and then make that throw. But when you're watching it from like the sideline angle and all you see is all this space in the pocket and then he starts sprinting toward the line of scrimmage, I 100% agree with that because there are a lot of layers to the bozo feel to that interception that go beyond the decision to throw that ball. And then honestly, even his other interception that he throws where he's like, I think it's the last play of the third quarter and he's like kind of drifting around the pocket a little bit on third down.

he walks himself into pressure and just kind of like backfoot chucks the ball up to the defense. I'm like, what, what are we doing? Like he just has more of that than it seems like, especially too, because like he actually typically when he's been a spot starter has like produced relatively well for a backup. It's just he has like two of the best backup quarterbacks in the league. Yes, especially for this team, right? And it's just he just has like two moments a game where it's like what were we, what were we thinking here?

What was going on? and obviously they have a chance to win it late. That entire end of game sequence is just hilarious. Like you have, I mean, we can go through all of the decisions. The decision at the end of regulation, before we even get to overtime, the third and six designed run for him in that moment is an insane choice on like several different levels. One, if you do not get the first down there, you have no timeouts and you cannot spike

the ball because it would have been fourth down. So it's not like a gimmy that he's even going to get the first down on that play. So that part of it is crazy. It's very close to him not having forward momentum as he goes out of bounds, which would have clapped the clock running. And so in that case, you need a May Day field goal at the end of that. So the design run on third and six at the end of regulation is its own just like level of insanity.

And then we get to the end of game sequence where you have, the Hufanga PbU you have the pass interference excuse me so if Fonga comes the fact that that ball even gets thrown is a really good play by Mario and it's like get away from the pressure on that play

Hufonga gets the pass interference you have the Josh Connerly hold on the McLaren touchdown which was a beautiful play that gets called back then right away you have the goal ball to Debo against Riley Moss that seems like it might have been a touchdown but actually comes out to the two

then we get all the way to forked down and they get the ball to McCorn for the touchdown to actually score. And then on the two point, it's actually a really good play call knowing you might get man coverage in that situation. They're running like a little mesh traffic with the back trying to get out into the flat to the left side. He's open. If that ball gets thrown, he is open to convert that two point conversion to win the game.

But Nick Benito gets a hand on it and the game is over. So just, I mean, it was wild. As someone completely uninvested, I mean, I guess I have the Broncos in the wind pool. But like,

I'm not. I'm not a fan of either of these teams. And I don't play for either of these teams. That end of game sequence was exhausting. Also, when it felt like going, I think going into the end of the fourth quarter, so this game might not have even gone to regular, or it might not have gone further. If Zach Ertz had caught that deep seam ball on like third and 16 or whatever, like, this game had so many moments where it felt like Denver could have lost.

And then just like one or two things went weird. And then honestly, Nick Medito getting his hands up on the last play, it was like truly incredible. It was a weirdly anticlimactic end to such a bizarre game, but it was a really good play. Anytime there's a batted ball in one of those moments, it is anti-climactic because you have to kind of take a beat to figure out what happened. It's like, oh, he batted the ball down. The game is over. So Benito has that play. You mentioned Alex Singleton had that incredible PBU on that third and 21 scene ball to Zach Ertz that, I mean, they absolutely would have been a conversion on a third and 21 if he doesn't get his hand on that ball. And then the other really good moment, I thought for the,

the Broncos defense when they were, Washington was down 20 to 14 late in the third quarter. And the Broncos defensive line just ruined that drive with like, that started with a minute, 15 left in the third quarter. DJ Jones had a fantastic run stuff on second and five to make a third and four. You get the false start on Tunsel to make a third nine. And then on that third nine, it's like a perfect representation of what a great pass rush looks like.

You have Cooper crushing the right tackle back into, Mariotta, Mariotta, and then he has to drift a little bit to his left. And as he's drifting, Benito, like, knifes in on a stunt. Like, the quickness on this third nine with which Nick Benito gets lateral on this stunt as the penetrator is you just shouldn't be able to do that as an edge player. Like, it's crazy to watch in real time. Tunzel actually does a phenomenal job of sticking with him laterally on that play. but the space that it creates, you get the loop from Zach Allen.

And because Mario is having to drift to his left, because Cooper is crushing the pocket from the other side, Alan gets the sack. And so on that drive, it's just like, oh yeah, like this team has like four or five dudes that can just ruin any single drive the opposing offense is putting together.

There's something beautiful about, like, what the Seahawks do with pass rushing is awesome, but they do a lot of like, they're beating you schematically and have these like pretty good players who are a lot of pocket crushers and stuff like that. watching how quickly Denver's and Houston's edge rushers can just get on you. Like, it is crazy to watch, like how fast they can just nuke a play.

I will say, I think the tackles were a little bit up and down this game. I thought Washington's interior played much better than most teams have against this Denver front. I thought they played pretty well. I thought they actually did a really good job in the run game on that. Chris Rodriguez touchdown, you watch the combo between Zach Cosmy and the center and they're just doing absolute work on that play. Again, Washington had 31st downs in this game. They moved the ball.

pretty consistently. Their opening drive at the second half, the one that ends with the crazy trail on Berks catch, which we have not even mentioned yet. I mean, that's like a series of plays on that opening drive. They have a beautiful sail route to Ertz for 18 yards. They're picking on Hufanga and man coverage. Hufanga was an animal in the run game today.

He was like a Tasmanian devil in ways both good and bad against the run and on like early down play action throughout this entire game. So they hit that. The sail route for 18, they hit Erts like a free one for Ertz in the flat. Mario De is a keeper for 19 yards and then it ends with the crazy trail on Burke's touchdown. And so when you look at just the performance overall with this offense and a backup

quarterback against one of the best defenses in the league, I actually thought it was a really good showing and I actually liked a lot of what their plan felt like on offense. And I was impressed with like the type of stuff Cliff was trying to tap into over the course of this game. I was too. Like really the only success like consistent success Denver had was when they were playing man coverage outside of the red zone. but Washington was kind of getting them in a lot of zone coverage by like they played a decent amount of like Nub in this game and a lot of teams are kind of scared to play man coverage against Nub.

And so we saw that. I think the Giants did that to them earlier this season. And so it's just a good way to- tight end is in line and he's the furthest outside receiver to that side. Like he's the only guy over there. So it like closes the formation a little bit and defenses typically don't want to have a corner over there or if they do, they're just going to play zone. And that's what a lot of Denver's worst plays came out of stuff like that. All right, we're going to take our first quick break and then come back and chat a little cards bucks. All right, where do you want to start with this one? That's a great question. It's kind of a weird game. It was kind of a weird game to get my handle on, truthfully. Like, I think, I feel like with a lot of these other games, there was like a feeling or something that I learned from it that I can really pick out.

Whereas I felt like with the bucks and cardinals, there were kind of just these sporadic moments. But there was nothing really that I feel like I learned. that much about either of these teams, if that makes sense. I will say the one thing that did stick out to me, Baker coming back and pretty immediately looking like an active scrambler, I thought was really important because that has been a huge part of their offense over the past. I mean, especially we said it last year that he became like a really effective scramble and that was a huge part of it. But as the offense was struggling for parts of this year,

when he's been able to tap into that and kind of bail them out of stuff, it's been huge. And so for him to come back and immediately look like he was ready to do that, I thought was really good for them. the sequence at the end of the second quarter to me is the best example of that they have i think it was a third down and cody simon blitzes on that play and he walks bucky irving back into baker and baker somehow springs free has a 21-yard scramble on that and then they had the rsad white touchdown that was wiped off and then they get back to a fourth and two on that drive it was my favorite play of the game from baker it's a fourth and two down in the red zone.

And I don't know if you saw this when you were watching it. He no looks the throw to Sterling Shepard on fourth and two, and it's the only reason that it's complete. So he has a high, low coming over the middle on this fourth and two late in the second quarter. And Buddha is flying down to take away that throw to Sterling Shepard. But Baker keeps his eyes on a Buka. And so Buddha actually like dips back under that window instead.

And that's the only reason that he's not in front of that throw that Baker makes his Sterling Shepherd. I didn't realize he had no look at because when I saw Buda flying down like that, I was like, did he just think Shepard was going to keep running a slant? So he's trying to like jump in front of that. But no, that makes a lot more sense. Okay, that's crazy. You see his eyes straight down the middle

of the field and that's why it happens and the throw is just off to his left. And so he makes that play. They have another touchdown wiped off because of a penalty and that's the drive that ends with the Tristan Worf's touchdown. And so that only happens because he jumpstarts it with a scramble. And he did that multiple different times

throughout this game. And I'm kind of with you in that I didn't really know what to make of it overall because as I was watching the first half, my takeaway was just, okay, the Bucks just keeps shooting themselves in the foot offensively. Like they're at a place where if they are getting out of their own way, they'll be fine. The first drive, Baker has a missile shot to Bucco over the middle of the field on 3rd and 10. He drops it.

On the next drive, there's a 3rd and 3. He, another one, he throws a missile to a boot over the middle of the field. Worf's gets called for a disgusting holding penalty. This is an epidemic in the NFL where you have these guys, these really good tackles who have this snatch trap technique where if a guy gets over his skis,

he's just going to grab him and dump him straight into the ground. Worf's does this. The only reason he gets called for a hold on that play is because he trips over the guard. The guy who's picking up, I think it was Josh Sweat on that play, because Worf's trips over him as he's doing the snatch trap,

it looks like he's out of control, when in actuality, he's in control of that rep the entire time. And so that torpedoes a drive. And then on the next drive, Godwin drops the ball in the end zone. And so now we're like, it's three nothing after all of these drives and they're consistently moving the ball. But that's not how the second half felt. The offense felt much more uneven in the second half.

And so I don't really know exactly how to, the term you use, I think is right. I don't know really how to get my arms around the entire offensive performance. from the bucks because it was a little bit of everything both good and bad. Dude, the Godwin drop, that was probably my favorite Baker throw in the day. He ripped that thing so early and put it right in his stomach and it just, it seemed like Godwin wasn't ready for it, which is kind of crazy when you're standing in the end zone. But I thought that was a really good throw.

He throws it with so much anticipation, though, that he barely got his head around before that ball gets to him. And so it's a ball that needs to be caught. But I think that's like the only way you can kind of explain some of it. away. Yeah, is that he's just like a quarter of a second beat whip in his head around ready for that one. But that to me like that, when people, when we talk about sometimes like what is red zone open in the NFL, it's you have to throw it like that. You have to throw it that early receivers got to be ready for it. So I thought that was probably his best play of the day.

Baker, that is. The other thing that I would say in terms of like what I did take a little bit from this game. And I think this was especially true in the first half. The Bucks passing off, or the Cardinals defense is was playing a lot of. spot drop zone and they were playing their safeties pretty deep. And so the bucks were using a lot of like, we're just going to run our intermediate players behind whoever your hook player, whoever your middle player is. And we're going to trust the guy that Baker can make this throw. And he did make like three or four of those throws. You mentioned the one that at Buka drops, but they had a number of other ones. So it felt like their offense was a lot of that or just like

screens. Like they didn't do a whole lot of typical quick game to try to beat that, which when you have a front like Arizona who is going to mug up the front, they're going to. They're going to going to drop some weird guys out and you are maybe a little bit scared of your quarterback throwing at guys who are jumping off the line of scrimmage. I get why they didn't do that. But I think that at a certain point led to some of the unevenness in the second half. And they had a 39% success rate in this game. The Bucks offense did. I mean, you could make a really serious argument that the only reason they escaped at the end of this thing was because of the couple turnovers from the Cardinals. I mean, the two biggest plays in this game by

the Bucks defense, who I actually think I was impressed by the job at the Bucs. front did just really condensing the pocket over the course of this game. Like there were a lot of plays where I think Jacoby kind of felt the light closing in a little bit as he's sitting back there. And so they condensed his throwing windows several different times in big moments throughout this game. But the two biggest plays of the game from the Buck's defense, the Logan Hall strip force fumble in the third quarter is an unbelievable play by Logan Hall.

When you watch the end zone angle on that, he's getting double-taxed. team, and he drops to a knee, and he still, like, makes enough of an effort to get back into the play in order to strip that ball for, I can't remember who it was, I think it was Bam Knight, but whoever ended up being, that's a monstrous play. And then the fourth and one for the Cardinals in the fourth quarter, if you go watch that, I mean, the job that Anthony Nelson does on that play to make sure that ball does not get outside of him, those two get those two plays on their own, like swing the game for the on a day where their offense was a little bit uneven yet again.

And the Logan Hall fumble to me was like, came at really interesting timing because the play before Tyke Smith misses a tackle on Bam Knight in the backfield, Knight bounces it to the right hand side. Zion McCollum has a chance to tackle him. He gets bounced off and I think Knight pops it for like 13, 12 yards, something like that, like automatically move the chains and get a new set of downs. And then immediately after that Logan Hall gets the punch out.

But the reason the play before me, matter to me a lot is like, I think the worst thing the Bucks defense did in this game and really for a lot of this season is their DPs have struggled to tackle, especially their outside corners. Like Jamel Dean missed a couple of tackles in this game that were pretty big and popped some big night runs. And so I just thought it was like very fortunate for them that like they had this play that was a little bit prescriptive of what has gone wrong for them at certain points in this season. And then Logan Hall just has an incredible punchout. He is he's quietly really come along as a player, by the way. He was terrible

as a rookie a few years ago. Like, clearly, he came in a little bit lighter and you could see that he was getting moved around a lot. But I really think over the last two, three years, he's really started to settle in as not like a Pro Bowl level player or anything, but definitely somebody you want to have on that line. Where are you at with the Cardinals

right now? Like, what are your general feelings about the state of Arizona Cardinals? Just as you think about, like, the two-year outlook for the Arizona Cardinals, with the talent that they have on the roster, with some of the pieces you know they're going to have, whether we just assume there's going to be a regime change based on how things are currently going. I watched this game and there are elements of it

that I find encouraging. Like Marvin Harrison looks the best he's ever looked. And so when you watch what he is bringing to the passing game right now and just some of the big things they're able to do off play action now accessing that area of the field, like they're able to get the most out of what he does well in a way they weren't really with Kyler. And then obviously, Tray McBride is Tray McBride. We've seen what Michael Wilson has been able to do over the last few weeks while Marv has been hurt. So I look at the past catchers and I find them exciting.

And I just, we've said this for the last couple years. They need more bodies on the offensive line. Like if you watch just physically what the bucks were able to do to them, again, just condensing the pocket over and over again and just the power and the play strength that that group lacks on the interior. that needs to change. And so I find myself maybe talking myself into like the foundational pieces on the offense and what it can look like with better offensive line personnel.

And obviously there's going to be a quarterback change coming. But I don't really know how silly that is. Like we don't even know who the coaching staff is going to be. And so it's just a team that I have a hard time figuring out right now because I don't think they're this lost cause. But I also am willing to admit and kind of. come to terms with how far they still have to go in a lot of areas. It's a weird one. I think the way that I would frame it is like, let's just, I'm not saying they're going

to get fired, but let's just make the assumption that this is going to be an open job going into the offseason. This is a job that I would want to take. Like, you're obviously going to have to figure out the quarterback situation. She's a good way to frame it. But like the rest of the offense, like, again, maybe Marvin Harrison Jr. is never the superstar that we wanted to be, but he's a pretty good receiver. And again, I think he's playing some of his best ball. Michael Wilson is a solid number two. McBride is obviously. to the elite. And then the offensive line, I think, needs some bodies, but it's not like completely unplayable. Like, Paris Johnson is a good left tackle. And if you get one or two additions, you don't have

to like regroup the entire thing. I think if you fix right tackle and maybe add one new interior piece, I think that could probably go a long way for you. And you could get to where you want to be with this offense. And so obviously the running back room right now is not very talented, but it's also banged up. Like they'll get some of those guys back next year. And so I think that on top of hopefully you just get one more half a step from some of these young guys on defense, it's like, this is a roster you can still sell me on a little bit. I know this year is disappointing, especially after last year where they were being on the door of the playoffs, but like they're better than their record feels like, I think. I just don't know what the quarterback plan is going to look like this offseason or what it should

look like. Because there's nobody out there. Yeah. There aren't that many avenues to like temporary veteran solutions based on how the pool of players is shaping up for the spring of 26. You're going to be bad enough where you might be in position to draft a quarterback. I mean, as it currently stands right now, let's take a look at it. I'm curious now. If the season ended today, the Cardinals have the eighth overall pick. And so we'll see what happens over the next five weeks. But this is a team that is probably going to be drafting in the top 10. The question's going to be how many of those other teams in the top 10 need a quarterback. Do you have to do some maneuvering to find one? How many quarterbacks are going to go in the

top 10? But I almost think that this team just kind of stumbled. into a place where they're drafting potentially like in the top five and putting themselves in a position to maybe have one of those solutions. Like as it currently sits, like looking at all the mock drafts and shit, and I haven't really dug into it outside of listening to Building the Beast. But it really does feel like we're in a place where like Ty Simpson and Fernando Mendoza might be top 10 picks. And so are you in a position where other teams either like Tennessee already has a quarterback?

We'll see what the Saints want to do with Tyler Shuck. The Giants already have a quarterback. And so can you be in a spot where if you have a quarterback? of the sixth overall pick and the Giants are picking third? What do you have to send to the Giants to get to number three and draft a quarterback? And is that the kind of the quickest way to take the ramp you need to to get this thing where it needs to be? The answer might be yes.

Like if you can get on like a rookie quarterback financial timeline, drop a promising guy into this with some of those weapons, with some resources to maybe add to the offensive line, you bring in a new coaching staff, is this team actually a little bit closer than it might seem based on how this season has gone. That might be wishful thinking, but I don't, I'm not totally not sold on that mindset. Yeah, I'm not totally out on it. Again, I think we'll have to wait for the draft order to settle for this take to fully make sense.

But like, there's usually one team that drafts in the top 10 that does turn it around pretty immediately and win like 11 games the next year and find a way to do it. Like, looking at who it might be now, like the Cardinals might be a decent bet to be that team, which again, I'm glad you kind of said that coming into this year, but. general optimism about it because I get, I watch them. Which I usually don't, but. I just, I don't, I don't think this is some dumpster fire that is beyond saving. And I think that there is a path forward.

Is there any thought in your mind that if we do land in that spot where they would potentially be able to draft a quarterback, this staff should be back to oversee that? Or do you think that that would be a mistake? I personally feel like we've run out of road a little bit here. and I feel like I don't think they've done anything that is super fireable, right? Like this is not an offensive job that they've done.

It's just it does feel like I would have wanted a little bit more proof that this thing is headed in the right direction. And I think for a lot of, I think we both kind of came out of this last offseason being like, well, they lost one of their major players on the coaching staff and Clayton Adams. And Clayton Adams is clearly kicking ass in Dallas

and helping them do a lot of what they're doing. And so that's not to say that they can't reload the coaching staff going into this offseason. but I just, it feels a little bit not as, doesn't have as much juice as I was hoping, I think. Yeah, again, this isn't the end-all be-all, but this team is like 21st and total team DVOA right now. And I know that their starting quarterback isn't playing,

but they're starting quarterback isn't playing in part because I think that's a conscious choice. And so you've made this bed and you are still a slightly below average team in a year where it was all supposed to come together and that has not happened. And so I think it's going to be a tough office. season with a lot of difficult conversations that have to go on in that building. Any other kind of bigger picture thoughts about the Bucks before we get out of here?

Obviously, you have Bucky Irving back in this game. I think you felt the difference with him in the backfield. Obviously, you had the chunk on the screen. There are a couple more explosive runs with him in the lineup. You are probably, Chris Godwin is back in this game. He has multiple nice moments. Obviously, he has the drop, but a lot of good spots as a blocker in this game. He had that chunk gain off play action.

He had that third down conversion on the right sideline early in the game. And so that's clearly going to make a difference down the stretch if he's even close to healthy or whatever his version of healthy is these days. And then it sounds like Mike Evans is going to be back here relatively soon. And so I don't know how much faith I have in them getting healthy fixing some of the, all of the issues that they're having on offense right now. But I do think I want to see them healthy before I make any sort of like grand proclamations about whatever their limitations are going to be on that side of the ball by the end of the season.

I'm kind of there too, especially to me with with Bucky Irving because he is, I think clearly has the most juice out of their backfield. And so if he can get a little bit just more into the rhythm of playing, more comfortable with what he's seeing, start to give them some explosives that way, both in the screen game, maybe the checkdown game, maybe as a runner bouncing some stuff like that I think is where I'm going to start to get really excited about this. I'm, I'm probably still out on this buck's team as a like they could make a hot run and go to the Super Bowl

do something crazy like that. But if they get a little bit healthier with the way the defense can play at their best, like they do still feel like someone who's going to be really annoying for the first two rounds of the playoffs to beat. They have two games against the Panthers in their final five games of the season. And so those games are obviously going to be

what dictates who wins the NFC South. Right now, the Athletics Playoff Predictor has them with an 80% chance to make the playoffs. And I'm kind of in a spot where it's like, I just don't know if I want to put 80% on anything that involves the Carolina Panthers right now. Like if the Panthers won both of those games against the Bucks, would you be shocked by that? Yes, if only for it feels like everything that Panthers do is a coin flip, which if we're going to have two games would suggest that one will land on heads, one will land on tails. That's actually probably a pretty good point. The funniest part

would be the Panthers losing the rest of their games, but then beating the bucks. But only beating the bucks. That would actually be the perfect end to this panthers season. That would be incredible. Don't act like you can apply any sort of reason to how this is going to go for Carolina over the first final five weeks of the year. I think that would be a dangerous thing to assume in any way. All right, we're going to take one more quick break and then come back with a little

Dolphin Saints talk, which I know you guys. That's why you're here. All right, the Dolphins beat the Saints 21 to 17 in what was a pretty ugly game. I can't remember at what point you said something, but I think it was maybe during one of our pre-show meetings last night. What was Tua's QBR? It was like 8.2. And my response was, how is that even possible?

Against the Saints. Like, it's not like the Saints. It's not like this was the Seahawks or anything. Like this is a completely mediocre defense that 8.2 QBR. It was, and it could have been worse because there was, he tried to throw an interception that. got ruled as an incomplete pass, I think, in the second half of the game. So this could have been even worse than it actually was.

He had a, the dolphins overall had a 35.7% dropback success rate in this game per next gen. The passing game was just ugly and sloppy the entire game. Their second drive, he sails a boot, and then the receivers run into each other on third down, and he sails a ball on that. You mentioned the interception he tries to throw down in the red zone at some. point during this game. They had a third and one in the third quarter where he just leaves it behind Julian Hill and the dolphins have to punt. Julian Hill, I think, had a really nice game as a blocker. Like in the run game, he was really good in this game. So that's actually what I want to say about

why it's so frustrating that the passing offense is what it is. They can run the ball. They're actually a pretty good Russian team. Still not like, you know, we're going to pull a guard and punch you in the face the way that like the lions could at their best. But like, they can run the ball pretty damn well. The dolphins are extremely frustrating because every year they do a good job of solving the problems they had the previous year,

but then a new problem creeps up. So last year, it's crazy. So last year they finished 31st in rushing DVOA, the dolphins did. Over the last six weeks, they're like ninth in rushing success rate. Like the run game is good.

They're over that same stretch, over the last six weeks, they are number one in the NFL an explosive run rate over that time. Like, they really do get gashes in the run game. Some of that is A-chan and just him being such an explosive, dangerous player. But overall, the construction of the run game, I actually do think there's a lot to like there.

But now they're having games where they have a 36% dropback success rate against the fucking Saints. Like, every single year, there's like slightly different sets of problems that they're having to deal with. They often solve some of those problems. and new ones just crop up in their place every season. Right, because last year, the passing game started to struggle because everyone knew, okay, we're going to crowd the middle of the field and they're not going to be able to make these throws.

But the run game hadn't caught up yet and they hadn't figured out how to do that. And some of that was personnel. Like, I think this year, them inserting Patrick Paul at left tackle. He's been solid for a young player. Aaron Brewer at center has been awesome. You mentioned Julian Hill really coming on. It's like a blocking tight end for them. Like they've figured out the personnel in the run game,

but they haven't found new answers in the passing game necessarily because the quarterback is still the quarterback. And like, all the past catchers are most of the same. And also, Tyree Kill has missed seven, eight weeks or whatever it's been at this point. So it's just, it really is always something. And I think one of my biggest frustrations to do with watching the passing offense is anytime Tua tries to look like an athlete, he just does not look like an NFL athlete. Like watching him try to wheel out of a sack or step up in the pocket to scramble. Like, it's, it's just clear that he's not quite cut out the way that some of, especially the other AFC, quarterbacks are.

And it can just be frustrating when the overall rhythm of the passing offense isn't working either. Yeah, there's just so many, like, near misses in this game. There was a drive in the middle of the second quarter after they started the drive with, like, a 22 personnel chunk to A-chan to get the drive going. And then down in their red zone, they tried to throw, like, a middle screen to A-chan, and Tua just throws it high and hot and it's incomplete, and they're kicking out of their field goal. Like, that was just, that was this game where they're getting a gash on the ground,

and then every single drive seems to get torpedoed by a throw that's a hair off here, hair off there, a bad decision. That was the entire feel to this thing. There are two sequences that I want to talk about that to me explain what it was like to watch this game before the crazy ending. I think it was the second drive of the game for the Saints. Tyler Shuck gets sawed in half by Matthew Judon and Jordan Brooks on a play where he's escaping to his right.

and he actually dumps the ball, the Foster Moreau for seven yards, but he gets high load and, like, flipped in the air and just crushed. Like, I was watching the actual 40, like the broadcast condensed version and then going back to some of the all-22 plays, and you hear the hit on the broadcast.

It was like one of the biggest hits I can remember a quarterback taking and not getting a penalty for because it wasn't a penalty. He just laid himself out to dry. Immediately on the next drive, it starts with Danny Stutzman dropping Devon A. Chan on the first play of the drive. So in like back to back drives, we had NFL Blitz style hits

from each team in a way that you just do not see anymore. Which to lead into that even further, Danny Stutzman is one of like two people in the league who wears a neck roll still, which is like, it was incredible watching him. It felt like 2002 football in a lot of different ways on that, in that sequence of plays. So that, that sequence is incredible. The other one that was just unbelievably funny is early in the second quarter, the dolphins have a really cool sim pressure design where Minka comes off the edge, just untouched, gets the strip sack,

gives the Dolphins the ball back in plus territory, to immediately throws an interception. Immediately against like a funky kind of... Not even close. Not even close to anybody. Not even close. My favorite part about this, actually, so he throws it up to like, technically to Jalen Waddle, but like not really.

And Kulay McKinstree is the corner. there. He goes up for it. You can see as soon as the ball is thrown, Jalen Waddle immediately realizes I'm in D.B. I'm in D.B mode. Like there was no hesitation of like, can I get to that? Is this going to be a fit? Nope. Immediately was like, I got to go punch this out. Watching that happen. And it actually is a, it's a nice design by the Saints who I think actually did some cool stuff on defense in this game. They had like a really cool sim pressure sack at one point where they're wasting multiple pass blockers. And then on that interception, Kool-in McKinster, you mentioned is the corner to that side. They actually play like a funky

kind of inverted cover two on that play where he's the deep half player. And so, too, it does get fooled. But it's still, I don't understand how you don't see him. Even if you're fooled by the coverage, I still think he's in your line of vision as you're making that throw. So it's, I'm not trying to explain it away. It's a moment where the defense wins, but I just, that ball should be thrown out of bounds. Like, that's how that win for the defense should end.

That's the thing. Like, he's looking at the area. It's not like he just like whipped around to the backside of a concept and ripped it and was like, oh, God, I was wrong. Like, he's looking at that throw as he's trying to make it and just, I don't know, doesn't see the guy. So all of this unevenness from the Dolphins offense is one of the reasons that the Saints are able to stay in this game. And then they get down to the end of the game and Shuck throws the crazy touchdown pass to Devon Vele and gives them a chance with a two point conversion and then throws a pick to make a Fitzpatrick immediately. and he takes it back, the dolphins go of four. Then the Saints get,

I assume a lot of people, that was just the last thing they saw in this game, is that they saw the making a thing as a cut in or on Red Zone or whatever. It's 2117, that's it. The Dolphins, the Saints get the onside kick, get the ball back.

They have a third and one in plus territory. No, first of all, let's go back on second and one after they get the ball back. Shuck throws a ball to Chris Olavé down the right side line that goes through his hands at the goal line. Like he absolutely could have caught that ball. It would have been a tough catch. He's working through a little bit of contact.

It's a contested catch. But the ball goes through his hands on the goal line. That's second and one. Shuck gets a little panicky in the pocket, throws the ball away on third and one. And then he's stuffed on a quarterback sneak on fourth and one. And that's the game. Those are the last three players for the Saints.

How painful is that to get the on-side kick when nobody is getting them and you get stuffed on a fourth and one sneak against this Dolphins defense like this Dolphins defense is fine and they've been better over the last five weeks but that's who's stopping you on a four like it's just ridiculous way. Their run defense has been significantly better. It has been significantly better. But that is a brutal way to lose. Like that it's just an absolutely brutal way to lose. Especially because on the other side, Kui McKinsteri had a crazy fourth and one stuff that gave them the ball back and gave them a shot to go down and score the touchdown on the valet one.

That was an incredible chase down by him, by him. Like, that was such a, such a good play by him. I was really impressed by that. He's been, Kulibankin Street is like either does the best or worst thing on the field in any given play. And he had a lot of better moments today where obviously he gets the pick. He has that stuff.

Like, he was, he's a, he's a very entertaining player as far as like, cornerbacks go. I know this is a dangerous line of questioning and a dangerous road to go down. I know where we go on. I watch the Dolphins right now. Oh, I don't. And I watch some of the ideas on defense.

And I just the construction of the offense. Some of the flashes that we've seen from Patrick Paul and Aaron Brewer and A. Chan and like obviously Waddle is going to be a part of this moving forward. Is it crazy to me that I kind of would be interested to see what this coaching staff would look like with a different approach and a different plan in building the roster? I know it's probably not going to happen. but like if they just decide in almost any other situation if a franchise ran it back with his staff again

I'd be like are you insane like how can you possibly justify this but with the Dolphins specifically there's like a little part of me that would like to see this group with a different quarterback and a different team building approach is that insane? No I'm with you now I think six weeks ago when we kind of broached this topic

I was like I don't know man like I love I love Mike McDaniel, but we've probably run out of road here. The fact that pretty early on, the season was clearly like out of hand. You lose Tyree Kill. Like everything is just not going the way that you want to. And they are still playing their asses off on both sides of the ball. Like playing hard. That on top of what we mentioned with like the offense is consistently finding answers.

The run game is better now than it was early in the season. Like they are feel like they are consistently getting better as a football team. And I know that's only amounted to four and seven or five and seven or whatever it is. but I do think it's a good coaching staff. And I think if you can get one or two more pieces on the defense, you fix the quarterback situation, it's like, this is probably a playoff team again. Like I really think they have that in them.

I'm sure there are Dolphins fans who are listening to this and just losing their minds at the thought of that. And I totally get it. But I just think about the pool of available coaches here and what are the chances that you're going to get a staff that is better than the Mike McDaniel Anthony Weaver combination given the talent on this roster. I just not sure it's a guarantee that you're going to be better off.

And sometimes change is good. Sometimes change is necessary. And sometimes change for change's sake is worth it. But in this specific case, there's part of me that's like, I don't know, man, I actually kind of want to see what this would look like. But they don't feel stale. Like the end of the Seahawks era with Pete Carroll kind of felt stale. I think that's a good way.

I think that's a good way to look at it. Yeah, like the end of Mike Tomlin kind of felt stale. This doesn't feel stale. they just feel like they don't have enough players and the quarterback is worse now than he was two or three years ago. Like that's kind of all it is to me. I just don't. The fact that I'm, I think I'm interested in them retaining this staff and I actually do think there's a legitimate argument about why Mike Kafka might be the Giants head coach moving forward.

I feel like I'm just living in a bizarre world. Like never in a million years, if you had asked me this in any given season, would I have been like, oh yeah, they should definitely keep the staff that's going to win like four games this year. and that, well, what's the Dolphins record right now? They should definitely keep the staff that's going to, they're five and seven. The dolphins are somehow five and seven. It's not that bad. They are technically alive in the playoff race.

They have a very slim chance, obviously, because they're not going to win their division. But like, they're a competitive football team. They are going to be, I think what's going to, I think we're at the point in the season where I think a lot of other teams or maybe not from the team perspective, but a lot of other fan bases are going to look at the dolphins on their schedule and be like free win. And I'm like, I don't know, man. Like they're going to make it hard. You might still beat them, but they're going to make it hard. I cannot believe I'm landing in this place. But I think the more I think about it, the more I'm talking myself into it.

You know where I'm actually kind of talking myself into the defense still is I think they need some more pieces in the DB room, whatever. Obviously, you got to replace Jaylon Phillips. Oh, we knew that coming into the year. We knew that coming into the year. But what has actually kind of sold me on them even further. And I like Weaver to begin with, the fact that I think Tyrell Dodson has actually become like a pretty decent and serviceable linebacker next to Jordan Brooks is like,

they're doing something right over there. Like he's playing better ball than he ever did at his previous stops. Two of a thing is just such a disaster. The contract. They cut him after June 1st next year is a $67.4 million dead cap hit. So there's a chance just for financial reasons. They keep him on the roster next year, even if they bring in competition for him. But if they move on from Tyree Kill, they'll be a cap compliant.

Tyree Kill is a $52 million cap hit in 2026, which is just, absolutely bonkers. But if they move on from him, they'll be cap compliant. There are a couple other areas where they should be able to save a little bit of money. And so, I don't know, man. If I were, if I were Stephen Ross and I knew I was bringing in a new GM and we were going to kind of take a look at the roster with fresh eyes, I think I could talk myself into this.

And obviously there's the messiness of having the arranged marriage between a GM and a coaching staff that's already in place. And there's a really good argument for just avoiding all of that. and just having a clean break starting over. But this is just a unique case where I feel like there's actually a real argument on the other side, too. And I think the last thing I'll say to is I think, especially during the season and then in the off season, we do a lot of who were the teams that were clearly a little bit fortunate and might be fraudulent going into next year. We got to be scared of them. Obviously, like Washington last year, Houston, the year after Stroud.

This year, the Bears obviously with as many takeaways as they're getting. Sorry to upset you. but I think we don't do as much of a job of like, who are the teams that kind of underperform, but are probably a lot closer than you think to being pretty good again. And I really do feel it's funny. We talked about the Cardinals. And now the dolphins,

it's like, I know they're probably going to end up sub 500, but they don't really feel as far away as it might seem. I tend to agree. And those might be my famous last words. Before we get out of here, where are you at on the Tyler Shuck experience? So I think he's a kind of a quarterback who just exists. He doesn't do a lot that really.

excites me, but he also is not that offensive. And I think that's become more true over the past couple. Like I think his first few starts, he was doing some stuff that was like, all right, man, you need to clearly get ready for the speed of the game. I actually do think he's getting a little bit better in that sense. And I think he's becoming more comfortable in the pocket. And so you add that on top of like he throws two really nice go balls a game. And then I actually thought in this game, his work outside of the pocket was probably his most impressive stuff. Yeah, he had both of his touchdowns came outside of the pocket. And then I thought he scrambled like three or four times pretty well. well. And so I think if he can just continue to get a little bit more comfortable with the

rhythm of the game from the pocket, which I do think baby step by baby step he's done over these starts. I'm not saying he's somebody that I'm like going into the offseason locked into being our starter. But I was worried that it was going to look pretty rough. And he's, he's been mildly better than I was anticipating. So yeah, I'm not sure what to make of the Saints offense. I mean, you have a game today or yesterday where Evan Hull is getting a bunch of carries. Mason Tipton is heavily involved. Dylan Radens is one of your starting guards. Obviously, Eric McCoy has been out for a huge chunk of this season.

Luke Fortner is currently in their starting center. And so there's just not a lot to work with on that offense. And I agree. His play is not offensive. I just don't know if it's as exciting or promising enough to scare you off or talk you off of drafting a quarterback if you end up in a position to take one. And that's ultimately going to be the question for this team as we get further down the stretch here.

and I just don't think I have a strong answer to that. And if you don't have a strong answer, is that actually an answer? Should you listen to that? That's where I'm at. And I think even with him too, like, he's not untalented. It's just I don't look at anything that he does where I'm like, man, we can really build a top 10 quarterback out of that. Like his arm is fine and he's a decent athlete and he's got decent size. There's just nothing where I'm like, God, he's got something special here.

And I think that on top of him only looking, you know, kind of mediocre and not super exciting. I think it makes it hard to say he should be the guy next year. But again, I was a little bit worried he was going to play himself back, like, back onto the bench potentially with how I think he looked in the preseason and his first couple of starts. And so the fact that he's at least dug himself out of that hole, I think is a nice step. The other saint I wanted to mention this game, just because he had multiple like splash plays. I was like, that guy's pretty good. Chase Young.

If you're again, you're talking about like building block pieces potentially. He's going to be under contract for a little while. He's still very young. Let's play a game. Chase Young was drafted in 2020. Okay. Do you think Chase Young or Tyler Shuck is older? Oh, shit.

I'm going to say Chase Young, but it's by like three months. It's by six months. Chase Young is older than Tyler Shuck, but he's got him by six months. Chase Young is 26 years old. Tyler Shuck is also 26 years old. That is like, I knew it felt like a trick question. It's five and a half months. It's five and a half months.

That's important. when we're playing a game like this where they were drafted, what, five years? Five years apart. That's crazy. And Chase Young is five and a half months younger than Tyler. It's older than Tyler Shuck. All right. Before we get out of here, let's take a couple of your guys's voicemails for another edition of Monday and morning. There's a lot, I'm sure there's a lot of like potential for sadness, given how weird this season has been and how quickly of a turn some things have taken for fan bases that were riding high as recently. It's like three or four weeks ago. But I think we got a couple of them here. Why don't you give us our first one?

Hey, Ron from Athens, Georgia. I'm a Colts fan, and I just don't know how to feel right now. A few weeks ago, y'all had your seat at the table show, and you left the Colts out. And I was thinking, man, this is going to be awesome. We're going to show them. Just wait until we beat the Chiefs. The season's going great.

We're the number one offense. And that just feels like so long ago now. I mean, DeForest Buckner out. Daniel Jones has one leg. And, you know, I'm conflicted because, you know, we just lost close games to two really good teams. So it shouldn't be the end of the world, but you just look at the schedule going forward. And the division just feeling like a long ways away. And, you know, it's just a whiplash.

So, you know, part of me thinks I shouldn't be calling in because, you know, we're still got a good record. but man, having the number one offenses in the league is just a hell of a drug. And coming back down to earth, I just don't know what to feel right now with what's going forward. And by the way, we don't have any first round picks. So, you know, thanks, guys. That to me would be the worst part of this. It wouldn't be the, are we good or are we not good?

I still think the Colts are a good team. And I think that the results over the last couple weeks, I think that's a really good way to talk about it and to think about it. We lost two close games against good teams. That's exactly what happened. If Josh Downs catches that ball yesterday, there's a good chance the Colts are in position to win that game and we're having a very different discussion.

I actually think on his broken leg, Daniel Jones played pretty fucking well yesterday. And so I think against most defenses, you're in a pretty good spot still. But that's harder to reconcile when you're staring down the possibility of missing the playoffs after trading away those two first round picks. And then if you're sitting there as a Colts fan,

I'm like January 10th, and your team does not make the postseason. And you traded away two first round picks, and that means you are very likely going to have to sign Daniel Jones to be your quarterback moving forward. And this thing kind of ends in the same place we're used to it ending for the Colts. That is a reality and a path that would be very, very difficult to stomach.

So I don't think you're wrong in field. feeling a little bit queasy about how these things are trending right now. I don't either. I think a month ago you thought even teams like the Texans, even defenses like that were going to be beatable for you. And I think right now you're a little bit more scared of that too. And I think part of it for me is that for the first eight weeks of the season, their identity was our running back might be the MVP of the league.

And since then, obviously he ran rampant against the Falcons because a lot of people can do that. But 45 yards against the Steelers, 58 against the Chiefs, and then just close. constantly running into a brick wall against the Texans. And I'm not saying that's necessarily his fault. But when you felt like the identity of our football team was like, man, JT is going to break a big one and we're going to be good and we're going to be able to close this game out.

And you haven't felt that in a while on top of, again, your two best players on defense, missing some time, Daniel Jones playing with one leg. And then not having first round picks at the end of it where you can sell yourself like, ah, next year we'll reload. It's just a pretty tough thing to have to live with over what it's been over the last month or so. I'm going to spend this optimistically. Okay? I think everyone's freaking out. And I think

part of the framing about the tough spot the Colts are in right now is well, we're tied with the Jags. The Jags are in first place in the ASEA South. We have to play the Jags twice before the end of the season. Right? Like this could go either way. What if the Colts just beat the Jaguars twice?

That's the thing. They are a better football team than the Jaguars. Yes. And so even if, and I'm sure you're looking at this and you're like, holy shit, like we got to play the team that's weeding our division twice. We have to play the Seahawks. We have to play the Texans again. Okay, let's play this out. Let's say, I think there's a real chance they beat the Jags twice. I do, I do think that. Like the Jags beat the shit out of the Titans last week, but they had a barn burner against the Cardinals a couple weeks earlier. So the Jags are, I think,

a solid team, but not a good team or an overwhelmingly good team. You've lost two straight games, very close games, to teams that I think are demonstrably better than the Jacks, even if the Jags beat the Chiefs. I truly do think that. So in this world, if you beat the Jags twice, let's say you lose to the Seahawks because they're a very good team, the Niners have a really good record. I think you could make a really serious argument that the Colts are a better team than the Niners. And so if you can win both those Jags games, beat the Niners, there is a decent chance that that game against the Texans in Week 18 is for the division and for your chance to go to the playoffs, and you just lost a coin flip game to the Texans. So I don't think this is over by any

stretch. Are you the favorite in the AFC if you do get in? I don't know based on how things are going, but I also think this is a wide open season. It's made a little bit more complicated by the fact that the quarterback's leg is broken, but I'm not willing to fall into like full scale panic mode quite yet if I were a Colts fan just because again, the quality of the opponent over these last couple weeks has been pretty damn good. I think that's kind of where I'm at too. Like I think maybe a month ago, I would have been a little bit more willing to bet on the Colts against some of the other teams that are going to be in the AFC race for the playoffs and stuff. But like, it's not like I look at them now and I'm like, they can't beat these other teams

that are going to be there. Like, they can beat the Bronco. They did beat the Bronco. Like it's, you know what I mean? Like they, I don't feel that much worse. And so obviously they're not now in a position where they're probably not going to get the one seed, whereas three weeks ago that very much felt alive and that they could do and they could get a buy.

But other than that, it's like, it's a pretty wide open AFC. and they'll probably be okay if the run game can fight itself a little bit. I think that's a good way to frame it. And I think it seemed like over the first half of this season that this team was maybe going to be the team in the AFC, like the team to fear in the AFC. Now they have fallen back to the pack. They're just a member of that very crowded AFC picture.

That's disappointing compared to where you were in week seven. But if I told a Colts fan before the season on December 1st, you will be right in the mix with every team in the AFC. Like, if we were handicapping the conference, you would have as good a chance as almost any other team that you will face in the playoffs, you would take that 100 times out of 100. And it's complicated a little bit by the aggressiveness

at the trade deadline and what that means for the future. But I think overall, if you were to frame it that way, where I told you, on December 1st, you are going to be tied for the division lead, and you were going to be in a spot where you probably have a really good chance, depending on who you play, to be competitive in or win a playoff game. I still think you would take that if you were a Colts fan. I think the perspective here is important.

Absolutely. You did not know, after how badly the Anthony Richardson thing went, you did not know when you would be that good of a team again. And you are now basically beating the Jaguars twice away from being the third seed in the AFC. That's pretty dang good. And again, I think that the Nick, the Daniel Jones part of this is, potentially scary to some people and potentially scary to Colts fans, the idea that he's going

to be the guy moving forward. I think what you've gotten from him for the most part this season, when his leg was not broken, is good enough for you to be competitive with the rest of your offensive infrastructure. And so I still think if I were a Colts fan, I'd be feeling okay about where things are, even if the last month has been a lot messier than the first nine weeks of the season. All right. That is all we've got for today. Today, if you have not checked out our Monday Night Football Recap, that will be available in your YouTube feeds right now. If you are watching this on YouTube and you have not subscribed to the YouTube channel, highly encourage you guys to do that. Obviously doing a ton more stuff on YouTube this year.

For now, that's all we got. I appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.