The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 13 Recap: Niners crush Eagles, Packers knock off Chiefs, Wild Card races heat up, and more

Episode Date: December 4, 2023

The 49ers looked like the class of the league in their dismantling of the Eagles in Week 13. The Packers, meanwhile, wrapped up the day with a huge win over the Chiefs. Robert Mays and Nate Tice are here to break it all down on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tice Nate. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well. I'm sitting very comfortably in my new office chair. So I'm sitting with great lumbar,

and a lot more good. Thank you. I feel upright. Yeah, I feel good. Yeah, much better back support, much better hip support. So I'm feeling good. I'm going to start this week off with some really good posture. And I think that'll just get me into the new year.

At least that's what I hope. But yes, that was a interesting day, interesting slate while a sloppy ball that reflected the weather. And I think that felt right for week 13. What better way to do week 13 than just mess weather and all bad luck happening? I'm glad you're still comfortable because I'm a mess right now. Typically, I get ready to do the show and like, oh, I'm all set. I feel ready.

I got all the stuff that I need. I just ran to the bathroom with 30 seconds left on that clock. I didn't do any my hair. I need him a hair. I'm all over the place because that game was a mess in a way that no one could have expected. So let's talk about the game everyone just watched. This is not how we were going to start the show. We are now because we have to after the way the ending went.

Let's start with another example, another stretch of the referees in the NFL, not exactly showering themselves in glory. Which was your favorite part of that final drive? Was it the botched personal file? Was it the botched past interference? Was it the failure to properly run the clock on a guy going out of bounds? Which one will you remember from that stretch? I think like the missed pass interference got a high, you know, high like audience score on Rot Tomatoes.

But the mist winding the clock going out of bounds right in front of the ref because MVS is going backwards in those situations. The clock winds. If the runner of the football is going working backwards in those situations, so the clock goes. That one has the high critic rating for me. That one is, that one is a little bit, yeah, that's the green night of, of how this night went. But no, that was, there was some rough ref play at the end there. Great moments for it. You know, like, you got to love that Sunday night. Everybody's watching it. Packers and Chiefs, like, oh man, we got some big fan bases. Everybody's watching this game. Great time to show up refs. Like just an awesome time. I'm glad you guys

got to show up in the fourth quarter for everybody to watch. Yeah, the past interference is an awful call. I mean, there's no way around it. And everything that I've said over the past couple weeks about not wanting to talk about referees, this is a call here or there that you feel like hosed your team in the game, not a ref botched a call in the biggest moment of the game. We'll discuss that when it happens. Right in front of them.

This was one of those examples. So obviously, that's a hugely impactful play, a hugely impactful call. But again, you have two calls on the same drive that go in the chief's favor that could swing the game the other way. So even if the refs were awful, I think that there was. a little bit of an equal opportunity awfulness during that stretch on the final drive. Oh, yeah. I actually think it was the Mahomes, like, how he got tackled was what drew the penalty because

he fell like, you know, like a chopped wood, like a chopped tree. Like he just kind of like timbered over. I remember when departed. This might be a little morbid, but they do like a flashback scene when Jack's character, like shoot somebody. And he goes, huh, he fell on. Yeah, fell fun. Yeah.

Yeah, that's kind of how Mahomes fell right there. I don't know if that's a little morbid. But that's what it reminded me of. So very catching, a very nice scene that I'm bringing up to reflect on a tackle. Let's move past the refs here for a moment and get to the performance that the Packers just put together because this is a huge win, not only for their development, but for how the rest of this season can go. This is a potentially season-shifting win. They are now entrenched as the seven-seat in the NFC.

I say entrenched, they have tiebreakers. There are now four teams tied at six and six at the bottom of the NFC wildcar. rankings with the Vikings, the Packers, the Rams, and the Seahawks all muddled there together. But this is the type of performance on the heels of what they did on Thanksgiving against the Lions that they can justify a lot of excitement about where this offense and where Jordan Love are right now. Yeah, I wrote about Jordan Love last week and my one regret afterwards was kind of like, did I get too far ahead of myself? He's about to go get spags. Like, oh, man, I'm about to get kicked in the teeth, aren't I? That's going to hurt. And how he played today is just this is how he's been playing

this last six-ish weeks, this last month and a half, just confident. Like that's the only word, that's the word I keep using because that's how he looks how he plays. It is. It's just the rhythm he's playing with. And just how he's, again, he's made everything his own, which I think is just such a cool thing. He is putting his fingerprints on dropbacks, on trick shots, on even on movement throws. And, you know, it's just like some of the stuff is just, like the Christian Watson touchdown in the red zone was, it's like a perfect example of design. And guys stepping up and also Jordan Love's kind of toughness and kind of, he's got a little bit of that dumb to him. That's perfect.

I talked about Jake Ferguson having this, the tight end, but Jordan Love has the quarterback version where it's like he's willing to hang in there and hang in for four seconds for this long developing play, action play to develop for Christian Watson to come in on a dig. And he just stands in there, moves into pocket, which is again, which is something he has really excelled at in this last month and a half is working in the pocket, still throws out on time, wide open touchdown, like a nice design. but also just love opens it up because he's willing to stand in there, find his lane in the pocket, and deliver, he can throw everything. Like, he truly, every throw is in his arsenal, which is, oh, that's such, so interesting and so probably just exciting for this Packers team to work with as all the other young pieces are starting to step up. And they're kind of, they're getting into a rhythm as well. This game checks every box for me, because the first drive specifically was design and everything

coming together, all of the movement throws, all of the play action, all of the play action, of the kind of benders over the middle off of play action, him willing to stand in there and make throws. It's a combination of scheme and talent and the growth of the quarterback. And then you combine that with guys stepping up and making plays. Yeah. I mean, that the second touchdown of Christian Watson, him even willing to, being willing to let that ball go, and then Watson going up and climbing the ladder and making that play, the combination of that. And then add in the running game, they were phenomenal running the football today. They had the second best rushing success rate of any team in the league after the Niners today. Their ability,

to consistently assert themselves on the ground combined with, again, that kind of convergence of the quarterback play, the scheme, and the young playmakers stepping up and finding themselves. It makes them so intriguing. And my favorite part about them is even beyond Jordan Love, it just kind of feels like they're a young team that doesn't know what it doesn't know. And they have an energy about them where they're playing with absolutely nothing to lose because they don't have anything to lose. For as much as this season is important about accruing information about Jordan Love so you can make a decision potentially this off season. This team spent very little money in the off season. They consciously, in talking to people there even during training camp, they knew this was a let's wait and see sort of season.

We're going to have some cap space next year. We're turning the page and this is an evaluation season. And the evaluation is going very well and they're winning in the meantime. And before the year, I think you and I both thought this was possible. took a while to get here, but they eventually did get here. Yeah, this is why I was hoping to see. It's the design stuff's been there, but it was, and again, just as Muscatah, who runs, runs the Packer SB Nation site, he kind of has made this joke how LaFlor

would just be getting frustrated going like, hey, I can't like, it's not me kind of saying it, but without saying that going like, it's the young guys messing up, but he was trying to be a very good job of taking care of his guys over that first two months of the season. He was trying to like, that's why I'm trying to like joke about it. He was trying to be a good coach without trying to like, I'm not trying to blame the young guys because they're young guys. But guess what? It's paying dividends. Look at Jane Reed.

Gene Reed looks like a star. Like he is like. Did that TV and Wix had a great game today. If you've seen the trajectory of Wix. Well, he made plays. Oh, I have a Luke Mousgrave going down. Then Tucker Kraft just coming in, him playing positive ball as well. It's just all these young guys are stepping up.

But Wix is the best example of this staff and the personnel department for the Packers just kind of nailing some stuff is Wix at Virginia. went way downhill as last year of Virginia. So he kind of just, in that kind of offense that they ran, it was very simple. It was the Clemson stuff. You know, we watched with Trevor Lawrence and stuff. Very simple offense. And he kind of, you know, plateaued as a player. So, but they bet on the traits.

And look at the development. He's making plays week after week. And it's just, that's like a six round pick. That's the time to bet on the traits. Oh, exactly. You know, same with Carl Brooks, the defense alignment we talk about. Oh, the play that cracked me up was the Rishy Rice that should, was a fumble, and they overturned it, which is something I'm going to talk about later in the Falcons game and a Jets game, which was just an unbelievable no call there.

But Valentine takes it to the house. And you can see it's like, oh, it's a big, exciting moment. You know, clinching the game, the entire Packer staff is on the sideline. Just go down. Go down. I was like, that is perfect. Huge play. Big moment.

He is so excited. But there's the youth right there. Just like he's like, oh, the entire staff just saying telling them to go down. It's just magical. But like you said, they don't know what they don't know. And it's a lot of fun to watch right now because it's all these younger players stepping up. For the Chiefs, a couple big injuries in this game, I think the Drew Shrenkel going down early in Cochran having to slide in against the team that is using a ton of eye candy made an impact. Donovan Smith.

Play action every play. People slicing across the formation seemingly every play. I mean, so many things going on. It's the wrong time to be down to your, I don't know, let's call them a third string inside linebacker with Bolandout as well. So that's digging into the depth there, I think mattered. And also Donovan Smith going out. You saw the pass protection issues on those two red zone drives. Them coming away with field goals on those two drives had a huge role in swinging the game early on.

And this game specifically, I think, is a reminder of what the chiefs have been this year. The offense has been uneven. The offense has struggled to put up points in bunches. The defense has carried them. And tonight specifically, the defense could not carry them. The defense had an off night. The Packers offense played great. And the chiefs end up losing this game.

And I think it's a comment on how thin the margins have been for them. in some of these games and how well the defense is played. And that is a change compared to what we're used to seeing with this team. And they're catching a team at the worst time. This Packers team is starting to kind of add layers every week. This Chief's team is still reconfiguring. And I mean, it's nice the last couple of weeks, maybe some of it's the Packers defense. But the Chiefs are finding their run game, which I think is the big, that was the biggest concern of anything for me.

Because that's that down-to-down sustainability that this team's always had with Mahomes at quarterback. And now they're finding that again, even with Pacheco getting tossed from this game, which was, oh, man, oh, refs, reps throughout this game, man, throughout the league. They had a, magical one. I can't wait for, sorry, I just keep teasing it, but we're going to get into it later. But I do think they really need like a juju, like really bad, juju Smith-Schuster, because yes, the Kelsey, the ad-lib stuff, and they have the design plays to Rishi Rice, a lot of screens, a lot of underneath stuff, which is good for him, because you can see how dynamic it is after the catch. But then you see the target to Sky Moore ends up becoming the

interception because they're trying to do a little ad lib there. And okay, MVS has his role. He gets kind of dunked on at the end. It's not his fault. But we know what MBS is. So you can't see there just that kind of one role that they're missing. But again, I, the Donovan Smith thing more than anything is most worrisome thing, more than any scheme or secondary receiver option. I think pass protection is always going to be the big thing that you're going to be worried about. Packers are six and six now very much in the hunt to steal one of those wild card spots. The team that I think is in a sort of similar position to them is the Rams. We've talked about this a little bit in pockets here over the first 12 weeks of the season. This Rams team also

spent no money this offseason. They were in kind of a wait and sea mode. And then they come out and their offense continues to play very well. They beat the Browns today in a very good Browns defense. And now they're sitting there at six and six. And I think both. of us, when we were talking about the wildcard teams this week, looked at the Rams and the Packers and were excited about the potential of them sneaking in and them being just a presence in the playoff picture because of the way these quarterbacks were playing, the way these quarterbacks were playing, on afraid, confident, just slinging the ball around. And watching that Rams team today kind of reminded me of the feeling that I got watching the Packers'

offense where it's like, there's so much going on here and there's so many young pieces here, I want to see this team keep building on what they're doing. And the Rams did it again today. It's amazing watching the Rams where the biggest concern is, all right, what else do they have outside Cooper Cup? And he didn't really make an impact to the end of the game. I'm worried about him. Just a little dragging a little bit. A little drive was nice, but yeah, he's kind of hit the wall. I'm genuinely concerned about the impact that he might have both on the offense this season and moving forward. Maybe he's playing hurt, who knows, but he does not look like the same guy. The good thing for them is, they've got young guys stepping up all over the place.

When Nakua gets banged up and he just comes back. I was like, oh my God, broken rip. He's done. And then he's back. And the next play I see him, he's like lead blocking. And it was like, first play. And after he's like, they showed him, he's like, oh, like whimpering off to the side. I shouldn't say whimpering up because he's tough as hell.

Obviously he came back. But it's like he stepping up to two to that well. He felt like he died. He came back and like he played the whole half basically. Two to Atwell's stepping up. They have, again, the designs, the Rams offense is might be one of the best. designed offenses. I mean, shouldn't surprise anybody.

You talk about motion. We're talking about the Packers using a bunch, Nick confusing the linebackers for the chiefs. Every single play, it felt like the Rams were doing something, putting a guy in motion, making them bump the coverage. And they had a backup corner in today, which we'll talk about a little bit later. But they were picking on him the entire game,

making that secondary communicate, just so many moving pieces to affect the pass rush in this game as well. The Rams offense is for real. Even without Cooper Cup, this offense is for real. Right now, through the, this game, they have a 45.4% success rate with Matthew Stafford on the field. That would be good for the fourth highest in the NFL. Their fourth and rushing success rate, they were 27th last year. This job that the Rams offensive staff has done, again, it reminds me of what the Packers have done,

where they come in, they're all these new pieces, there aren't a ton of real expectations because of all the youth, and the results they've gotten are such a reminder of the quality that exists in that room. With the Packers, it's the same guys who've been around. With the Rams, they made a ton of tweaks to that offensive staff. Matt LaFleur coming in as their offensive coordinator, Ryan Wendell coming in as their offensive line coach. It's not like they went out and got a ton of big name pieces in these position rooms offensively. They got Matthew Stafford back. They drafted Steve Ovella in the second round and they got Puga Nakua in the fifth. That's what we got here. And these are the results that you're getting. This truly is down to down one of the

better offenses in the entire league without any sort of offseason aggressiveness. This is just, I think Sean McVeigh really taking a hard look at himself in the mirror about what they wanted this offense to be, you know, what they needed to put into it. Matthew Stafford was playing really well and them just pulling every correct lever when it comes to what they're trotting out schematically. And that is just a very fun product to watch. And it really does remind me of that feeling you get watching the Packers right now too. Yeah, the, the RAM stuff is just, I go gaga about the run game stuff.

And then it's like, oh, yeah, Stafford. Stafford just throwing trick shots and the Pooka Nakuwa touchdown. The catchment run was fantastic. They checked into that. Jim Schwartz likes to run inverted cover two. And everybody knows it. Everybody in the league knows it. You know you're going to get a half a dozen times a game.

You just have to try and bet on the right times because the other times you get baited and bad stuff happens. But you can catch them. The Steelers caught them earlier this year. We saw Kenny Pickett to George Pickens long touchdown. And then there, they checked it. into it. The Rams check into the two longest play calls ever, and they can do it because they have Stafford, who's played 100 plus games. They have this offensive staff. They have a lot of guys that

have been on the field, plus a lot of just smart players in general, so they're able to do all this stuff. But like you said, they're top five offense when Stafford's out there. The motion stuff with Nakua and the run game and how they tie it all in, it's just, it's game planning. It's great sound game planning. I talk about the duo one that they've kind of like other teams are running now, the foreigners have started running a version. So they, other teams are getting impacted by what they're doing. They do a search motion is what it's called. They find the down safety.

So search block, find the safety. So they go back and forth. But then they'll do that. And then they run a zone off of it. And then today, against the Browns, they ran the pin pole off of it about like four times. And it's, and that's just the change up. Again, I always talk about that pitches. But their pitches, again, and I talk about this with Spags, was the joke, was the, what,

blitzing ninja? this is like the run game ninja. Like this is just offense ninja. This is what they do. Everything looks exactly the same and same motion. And then they just hit you five different ways off of that and they gash you. And Kyra Williams just runs it really well. He's just a very sound running back.

And yeah, they're clicking. It's an awesome offense. All the outside runs off of that today, which is so fun to watch. It was a really cool change up. And they were gashing them on. It felt really big plays and really big moments. They had a jet sweep to Nakua. Yeah.

And a high leverage moment that went for a huge chunk gain. hit a whole shot to DeMarcus Robinson. That was great. Stafford just let rip. And then the other part, and we put a bow on this, some of the plays from the young defensive players. Kobe Turner was great today.

And now you have a draft where you can come away from this thing with a starting guard in Avila, Kobe Turner making plays, Byron Young, and Pooka Nakua. And a putter. And a putter. That's the most important thing.

So really a potential kind of foundational draft with no first round pick. to do that is so impressive in what they've built. And again, it's just one of those, just a season and formula and everything kind of coming together in a way that just makes you feel so good about what that staff looks like and what it could look like moving forward. And that's kind of how I feel about the Rams. About the Packers as well.

They, they, both of these teams, but definitely the Rams, they worked at it. They really worked at. And you could see the rewards that have happened from them really, like you said, look at themselves. But I think look around the league and also just kind of what, what's best, What's built a whole offensive offensive, a true identity shift. But it really, it's really cool to just see this kind of whole offensive shift that McVeigh has made. And it's not crazy because it's the same kind of philosophy, but now it's just a new version of it.

And it's awesome. It's, it's really cool watching this team. And this is why you said, Packers and Rams, these were our answers for who we want to see and who we think is dangerous. It's because of what they're doing on offense, these young players stepping up. I think the Rams were really unhappy with how last season went. Obviously, the results were terrible. I think that they didn't feel good about the way that they approached things. And a lot of these other teams around the league, we'll talk about a couple of them later.

They let inertia take over. This is our staff. These are the guys we have. This is what we're going to do. And the Rams decide. And that's what the Rams did last off season. Right? They brought back Liam Cohen and they just kind of had, they got the band back together.

A skeleton crew version of the band because that's how it has to go when all these guys are getting poached. But them sitting here this off season being like, who do we want? What kind of staff do we want now that all of our guys aren't getting poached to way and the thoughtfulness and the intentionality they brought to that process. You see that in the product right now and what they look like. My one minor, I'm sorry, I know we keep going. We'll wrap it up here is just look at how the Rams, the faith they had in themselves to reconfigure their offensive line and to just go like, hey, we're going to have a young guy,

but also what they did at center and left tackle and no boom, everything, and just go like, hey, we're getting our best five out there, but to truly say that. Do you know what you just kind of balls you have to have, the confidence you have to have? and just like, hey, we're revali, we're reshuffling the deck, and they're dealing themselves a good hand right now. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity, but now you have my attention. Every week, tons of stuff coming at you. Like to pick out a couple of performances, moments that really grabbed us.

Let's start with the San Francisco 49ers, absolutely dismantling the Philadelphia Eagles in this game. What a performance from the Niners offense. Again, similar to this is a team that I think today really just showed you everything that it has to offer on that side of the ball. Yeah. What was the sad was like two pawns and then six straight touchdowns. They, the use of one thing that really stood out to me was a use of cadence, a lot of

quick cadence or even I think Cheetah. I'm trying to remember if they do Cheetah or not. That's when the center grabs the ball and snaps it right away. But a lot of just like line up and go. And that is a lot of stuff, of course. And we've kind of made jokes about this. But it was very true today affecting the Eagles linebackers. That was, oh, they were on their highlighted the entire day.

I think, I think Greg Olson did a fantastic job of highlighting a lot of the why of what was happening and what the foreigners. He makes it so easy. I'm trying to, I'm taking notes. And every single time, they do such a great job. I want to talk to the production people for Fox. Yeah. Because every single time there's a play, they show the exact replay that I want to see to show me what happened on the play. The spider can replay that.

For a perfect example, first drive, Purdy tries to throw an. in-breaker on like second down. The corner on that side, I don't want to say it was Slay or it might have been Bradbury honestly, plays it so hard inside and takes it away. Because in my thought, it's like, oh, why wasn't that there? They show it. I have like, oh, there it is. There is.

The very easy explanation of what happened on that play. Fox does a phenomenal job of giving you the proper context visually after all of those plays. And then Olson does a phenomenal job of giving you the proper context audibly after all of those plays. It's beautiful to see. Like legit every note main note. I was like,

ooh, okay, this is what Shannon was doing. This can be great. All right, I'll talk about this on the show. I won't tweet it. So I won't tip my hand on it. Then they'll come back from commercial.

And there's Olson. So here was, here's what the Shannon did here. They're going to have demo in the motion. It's like, God, dang. It happened like three, four times.

And I mean, so some of this might be repeat. So hopefully you have a visual. But I, like, I mean, those guys like Nick Morrow, Moro was just a huge highlight.

The Stephen Ruiz microscope meme, just the entire day. It's never been truer. It's never been truer than it was in this game. Even in the Troy Reader Times, it was not as true as it was in this game. Two mentions it only. It's right.

It was the 49ers adjustments on offense were so cool because you could see at the beginning they were trying to do a lot of the pinpole on the outside, just like we talked about the ramps. And they realized, okay, Eagles guys were kind of ready for it by just running as fast up field as they could and just beating the down block. So what they do? they just leaned into true Shanahan outside zone today. And they got to it in different ways.

They had just the traditional run behind kiddle. But I thought what the cool thing, what they did was truly have Jushek just go out and lead block on the edge. Because the guy is getting so upfield, so it becomes a kickout block as he's leading on the outside zone. So just that little twist that Shanahan can do. And again, Olson highlighted this. He was the exact play I was thinking about. I wanted to talk about.

He goes, you know, this is what. what the Shanahan offense does. They just twist what angles they go and what guys make the block. And I was like, yep, that's exactly it. Yep, great job, correct. That's exactly it. But Joanne Jennings had that angle route in the second half. And it was really the Joanne Jennings drive.

And on that play, CMC gets double teamed. And they won double. The Eagles are leaning some one double now. And, but what happened on it was it leaves an entire void in the middle because usually in cover one, there's a whole player or a robber player. If you're doubling somebody, that guy is now doubling somebody. So Juan Jennings, does how much faith they have in him. We're going to run a choice route to John Jennings because your guy, whoever you have man-to-man,

can't keep up with our number three receiver. It's like death lineup plus now. Like this is just like this offense is just like to have all these weapons of different ways to get there, how they got to CMC on the wheel route because they knew they run so many choice routes. Earlier in the game, the first drive, they ran a comeback route with CMC out of the backfield. It ends up going incomplete. It was third and 14, I think. Sorry, but this was just like all this stuff.

They just had answers for everything and they just shredded them. Anytime they blitzed them, they shredded them. They just had one page on. That was where Purdy really impressed me in this game. When they brought pressure, he made a lot of really, I don't know, three or four, a handful of impressive throws outside the numbers on third down when they brought pressure. A lot of times, do I yuk? That was where I think he really showed up in this game because there was a lot of damage that they did, obviously,

just yak and underneath opportunities. And I think that was the answer. The Eagles seemed like they were going to pack the paint in drop-back situations. We're not going to let you throw the ball over the middle of the field. Okay. Well, we're going to get the ball on the perimeter then. We're going to get the ball on the perimeter consistently. They did that little, I don't know what you would call it.

It's not a yo-yo motion. It's a little twirl motion is how Olson was referring to it, where Debo comes across and it comes back behind the formation. And they did a bunch of different stuff off of it. You know, they had a lead swing to him off of that. That was the play that Wilson, Iowa, the touchdown. Oh, the lead swing. swing one.

Yes. The lead swing was the drive starter. It was down inside their 10. The 4-5-1 play, yeah. A swing to Debo where they got use check out in front for, it was a nice chunk game. They had a crosser to Kittle off-play action on the same drive where Kittle comes around, linebackers are looking at him, ball goes the other way. So rather than trying to just, you know, use drop back and throw the ball into the field

in the way that they often do, they really just try to displace linebackers and get going on crossers or get the ball on the perimeter. against those linebackers. And it consistently worked. So just how often and how thoughtful they were about, all right, these are the ways we're going to get Debo the ball in space and these are the ways we're going to attack you. And then that wheel route is another perfect example, right?

They're going to pack the paint in that situation and just be prepared for that choice route over the middle. Let's just send him vertical for a huge chunk play. So you combine all of those really smart, really kind of impactful ways that they got the ball in their guys' hands and you combine that with the run game. That was to me the most impressive part of this is that, I was that. I know they're going to scheme stuff up in the passing game. They're going to find an avenue.

And that was cool to watch when maybe the traditional way they go about it wasn't always there. Their ability to assert themselves on the ground today, that's what feels the most different to me about this Niners' offense compared to even last year's Niners' offense. They lead the league in rushing success rate. Last year, they ran the ball a lot, but they were not this consistently efficient when they ran the ball. And their ability to just line up and push them around today, that same drive. where Kittle catches the crosser off play action. I think one or two plays later, he motions over, and there are two double teams on that side, one with him and Trent Williams, and one with the center and the left guard.

And the movement they get on that against that eagle's front, that to me is what's so impressive, notable, and scary about this team is that they lead the league in passing and rushing success right now. They can do anything. Anything is on the table. Any way that they can hurt you, they're going to get to it eventually. And that is why they're terrifying right now. Yeah.

The affecting the spine, though, like what you were talking about at the beginning, it was that run game or past game, but it was like all those Debo plays were basically like, every Debo highlight was like, oh, that's 409 is messing with somebody, a linebacker or a nickel player. They had like a mesh play to him, the end around touchdown to him. That's a true old school way to affect the linebackers and secondary and intermediate players. The catch and run touchdown, of course, was the, it was a five-man pressure, no inside help. And again, using use check on a motion creates this high, low on morrow again, and boom, catch and run touchdown. But what you're saying, the play action one to kiddle stuff is great.

What you're saying about the run game, all the different runs they can get to, I brought up the outside zone stuff. There was the drive in the second half. I think it was going from the third quarter to the fourth quarter. It was a long drive they had. They got to outside zone three different ways. Then they got to inside zone away from Kittle. then they run trap. Then Eli Mitchell comes in just the backup runnerback.

They run duo right down the throw. Gash, first time. Yep. And then they run power. You know, straight power. And again, this is all with a little bit of motion twist that opens these things up, but they can get to any run. And the fact that they, I just love because first two drives, I was like, ooh, first 15 plays and you're stopping the 49er. So that's interesting.

Renick was affecting the game. I was worried, are they going to be able to hold up? And then the run, I saw the first run change on the next drive. after that. I was like, oh, they got it. That was that. They know exactly what they're about to get to. And they just spam it. They know how to get to it. And then they know all the changeups. And then they know the third pitches and they know the fourth pitches. And they have guys that can just take any catch to the house. Multiple guys that can do it now. On the other side of the ball, I can't wait to watch the All-22 on this because I think the secondary and the coverage in this

game affected the Eagles offense more than the pass rush did. Jalen Hertz had a ton of time consistently. and he had nowhere to go with the ball. I was surprised I didn't run the ball a little bit more to kind of take something off of his plate. It felt like they were searching for answers. They went empty a ton on the first couple drives. And it felt like, all right, we have something here. There's something we can keep picking away at here.

Spread it out. Let's get a little bit more information. Let's diagnose. They had AJ Brown on a couple slants on the first couple drives. But they just had nothing consistently moving forward. after that. And I don't know what the Niners were doing on the back end because we couldn't necessarily see it. But they had all the answers and all of the moments. It felt like the course of this game against that Eagles passing game. Yeah, I know. I'm very curious.

Because I think how Fred Warner, of course, played and Dre Greenlaw again before he got kicked out, how they played was, I think they had a huge effect on the game, like they do on a lot of games. But I, how seeing them, they would be every replay I watched, they're off the screen, pushing backwards. And I think they're just challenging, like saying like, hey, Jalen Hertz, check it down. But instead, what Jalen likes to do is go to the pocket to the right and try to create something off script. And Olson even commented it on today. He's like, even the big plays, they feel just so everything's off script, it doesn't feel consistent.

And it's like, that's how this Eagles offense felt. That's why I was like, oh, stay with the run game. I thought early on, they definitely took from the Bengals tape a lot of bubbles and flats and stuff side to side. And I was like, okay, that's good. That's new. Okay, I like that you guys are leaning into that. But when they got into the red zone especially, I could tell the 49ers had,

because they're so smart, their players are, had specific checks and everything based on the look the eagles were giving. When they went to empty and what usually looks like a J-1-Herts run situation, they were kind of flapping. So they had a game day check, Eagle, Eagle, bird,

something like that. So see, that's what happens all the time. So I was like, oh, okay, all right, you guys have something. Because then you'd see the backside safety sprint down to the box.

But it's like, oh, man, now you guys are getting into these game plan specific stuff right now. That's good to see. We know D'Amico could do that. All right, now we got a new staff or I do some new figures. So the fact that they're kind of shown in these game plany designery looks and the players are executing them, it's like pretty tough. That's going to be a pretty tough combo with offense playing like that and the defense could throw pitches like this. It was funny because it was kind of the opposite of a lot of these Eagles games that we've watched where the first couple drives, I was like, oh man, they're finding some interesting answers. The way that they're going about this, I feel pretty confident about what they've seen and kind of what their little curveballs are in this game.

And then they ran out of gas almost immediately after those first two drives. Typically, they've started really slow. And then they've come on as they found answers later in the game. And this was the inverse of that. And I would love to, again, going back and rewatching this and trying to figure out what some of those challenges were on the back end, why they were running into some of those issues. Because it was hard to tell in real time. It was. Yeah, I know.

Because at first I was like my first notes were like wow they created like a four by one bunch formation at Kenneth Gamewell. And I said, nice. Like just like, hey, this is pretty cool. This is what I'm excited. Hey, hey, that's how I've seen. That plays a great example. Yeah. And again, this is like your first note was speaking like I thought they would lean into the run a little bit more.

And I feel like I keep saying that after every Eagles game. And I think that's the one frustration I have, even if it is a tough defense to do anything against. They didn't run the ball well. When they did run the ball, they weren't effective at it. But I still assume. all right, we need to find at least something that we can rely on a little bit here. Tap into it a tiny bit. There was one six-play drive that was six straight passes and not RPO's either.

And I was like, you guys are a balanced attack. Even if you guys can do it all well, but you're balanced. I don't know, six straight passes, that feels like you're kind of losing yourself a little bit. The Niners in this game, and they were favorite coming into the game. I think we all were reminded why. They feel like the best team in the NFC. They feel like one of the best teams in the league. I think that they have separated themselves a little bit after this week and then even after the last few games that they've played.

Dallas's offenses play phenomenal, obviously, but the competition level has just not been the same. So we'll see what happens with the Cowboys moving forward. Huge game against the Eagles. Last thing I want to talk about with this game, love the shit talking. Just absolutely love the real animosity that exists between these two teams. That being said, I'm going to feel like this is going to be like an old man yells a cloud thing and I know everyone was really enjoying it. don't touch the players. No, no, no.

Don't touch the players. I know we had fun with the Big Dom stuff and it is objectively funny. My stance on this is don't touch the players. That's all I have to say about it. I think that Drake Lean Raw was completely justified in how he responded to that. Greenlaw was going against anybody's sight scene. He just didn't care. Like he was on site.

Boom. He was going to add somebody. My thing has always been you can't talk shit to players unless you wearing a headset. If you're a coach or stuff. that's a number one rule for me. It's a big thing I got when I watch some of these college games and I see some of these SEC sidelines and he got, oh, man, Polo wearer insert number 28, you know, and he's just screaming at a player and talking shit.

That's what he is on his IMDB page, just Polo Wear 28. That's what I was thinking of. That's his role. Yeah. And yeah, he's some staffer. And I, oh, it's like one of my biggest pet peeves, unless you're wearing a headset, man, nope, can't talk. Equipment guy has to wearing a headset because he's doing personnel.

He can talk. He gets that right because he got trusted with the headset. So you can talk. It's a very good rule. I've never thought about it in those exact terms, but that's a very good rule. And then there's a special team coach exception. And then I go back and forth. Why it was first and forced, though, was strength coaches because I wasn't, there's some

assistant strength coaches that get out of hand sometimes. Head of security is strength coach adjacent. I think we're dealing with similar territory. I'm not saying anything about him because he seems connected. And I am just, he's, I think, what is it? senior advisor to the general manager. Yeah. He's been there for 24 years.

Good with me. I've never seen the Eagles players getting in trouble. I'm not saying a word. We'll see what happens with the Eagles moving forward. Again, it's a really good test against Dallas next week. But this, to me, was more about the Niners just really asserting themselves in this game and reminding us of who they could be. Also, gaining our attention today, AFC Wildcard Race. We're going to keep doing this because it's wild.

Wild as hell. Every single week, it seems like there's some new layer of insanity. If you're looking at the standings here, we have four teams that are seven and five. The Steelers now, the Browns, the Colts, the Texans, and the Broncos and the Bills are sitting there at six and six. Buffalo Bills just here lingering around as these teams lose games. I didn't think about this. I didn't think about the bills at all until I'm staring at our rundown here and Beller put them in. They're the winners today.

Oh, yeah. They are absolutely the winners today with the Steelers and the Browns losing. and them being one game closer to potentially getting back in this thing, even with the schedule that they're looking at. But a ton of movement. And let's start with the games that did happen today with the Indianapolis Colts, who moved to 7 and 5. I don't know where you want to begin with this game. The chaotic energy that completely took over this game was absolutely wild. It was beyond the block punts.

There were two block puns. The first block punt happens. Colts score a touchdown. They throw an interception on the two-point conversion that is returned for two points the other way. That was like the fourth or fifth wildest thing that happened in this game. It felt like the Colts block two punts and scored twice and netted seven points. Six points. Return for two.

So now they're at four. And then I got a field goal. That that's right there. That's how I go with this game. Man, they, uh, Levis, Levis has got some chaotic energy too. So he really does. Do you see the helicopter play?

Oh yeah. No, that's how he was in college. He has, oh my God, he would take the worst shots in college. And it was just like, like, yeah, I would always scream about him to go down because he that's what he does. It was third and five. I think it was in the first quarter. He takes off and scrambles, dives head first for the first down marker, gets Elway spun

around, lands at the marker with the first down, looks directly down the line to see that he got it, signals while sitting down that he got the first down and then gets up and flexes directly down the first down marker. Everything about, I'm like, this is insane. So that happened in this game. There was a flea flicker to a tight end at one point. As you were describing that story, it was like each little piece of it popped back into my head.

So I was like, you're like sat down, boom. Like signal the first down, boom. And I'm just picturing him with a headband. It was like, boom. And then flexing, boom. Like everything just popped in my head. after another. There was a play, I think, in the first or second Colts drive where Minchin was rolling out to his right, he throws a ridiculous ball down the sideline that somehow

Kyle and Granson catches. There was a flea flicker to talk Kyle and Granson. They handed the ball off on a fourth and two jet sweep to Kyle and Granson. Ryan Tannahill had to come in as the holder because Ryan Stonehouse got hurt on one of the blocks punts. Tana Hill, who makes $35 million this year. Can you imagine the conversation between the special teams coordinator, Ryan Tandahill in that moment. Right. It's like, hey, Ryan, you know, I know you, that worth it. We've respected your career here.

You've been great here. You've given this franchise everything. You make $40 million a year. We're going to have to have you come in and hold on this one. The backup. And he botches the hold. They missed the extra point. I felt bad about that.

The backup snapper, backup holder thing is always hilarious on NFL rosters because some teams do like really think about it. And some teams you can tell us, it's like, what do we have? Like, who do we have to have? But I always love the backup center. or backup snapper because sometimes those guys are like better than the actual snapper, but they're like Jake Matthews. Like Jake Matthews is like because you know whose dad is like they just were basically trained.

All of them were trained to be long snappers because like, hey, you might not be a first round pick offense to Lyman. You actually might have to be a long snipper. So like he was like better than like Josh Harris like snap with the ball. He was just automatic on some of the stuff. But what else happened today? Oh, Alec Pierce is alive. Yeah. Good to see.

really good to see that. Oh, I love the Colts use of RPO's. Another one was the walkoff touchdown on Michael Pittman, but they run every version, especially in goal line situations, which the Eagles do sometimes, but then they get away from it sometimes. Eagles might be having some too many good play syndrome going on right now. But they, it's just every two man variation you can think of, two outbreaks, two in breakers, an outbreaker and an in breaker, one guy in motion, one guy, both static, both in bunch. They run every version, the one that scored a touchdown, to Pittman was a fake flat route by Pittman with an inbreaker by Pierce and then Pittman comes and breaks back inside. And why that's kind of genius and why I'm like, man, everyone should be doing this if you have the quarterback that could throw it that quickly. That's what Minchu actually kind of brings because he has a quick release is at the goal line, you're going to get man coverage. Everyone sells out at the goal line.

Like you just play locked man cover. Play Madden. Goal line one, right? That isn't what you call? So you're locked man coverage. Isn't what you want to your receivers, especially ones you drafted? the second round. I want man to man. So I don't know. It's just stiking. Just every time. Just knows what to do. Just knows exactly what to call. And it's just like simple good football.

They ran a play action to Josh Downs from a splitback set with him leaking out across the formation at some point in this game. The amount of wonky shit the Colts are doing on offense is hilarious with this quarterback and with this personnel. All of this being set and the Colts sitting here at 7 and 5. I don't know if I buy it. I had no idea how to feel about them. I don't know if I buy it. You look at all the underlying numbers, like they're just, they don't move the ball that officially on offense. Minchu is all over the place. Yeah.

He is all over the place. And sometimes that can lead to some positive plays. It can also lead to some just truly terrifying stretches where there are multiple tip balls that almost get intercepted. There's an overthrow here. There's an overthrow there. So I love the way the offense is designed. I think that they have, Stuyken has done a really, really good job. I'm still terrified about what they're going to look like offensively with him at quarterback.

against really good teams down the stretch if they have to do that to make the playoffs. And the defense, the run defense is very suspect. Early in the game, the Titans were running all over them, and that's emblematic of who this team has been all year. They're 31st and rush defense accessory rate. They just aren't very physical against the run, and I think that showed up today, and Henry gets hurt late, and if he hadn't, I wonder what would have happened. But that part of it, and then they picked on a very bad Titans offensive line today.

Like, Ebukam had a couple really nice moments, but, I guess, Against good offenses, I'm just not sure how many stops they're going to be able to get. So even if they keep stringing wins together, even if they're objectively fun, even if I think Stuyken has done a really good job, I still don't know if I buy it. I don't know what to think about him. I really don't because I know the play car is really good. I know he is legit. And I know I like some of the weapons, but they use them really well. And but I know what Minchu is.

I know what his ceiling is. I know when he turns into a pumpkin sometimes. and their defense isn't dominant enough that he's going to have to be involved with a lot of games. You know, their game scripts are going to be one score games. That's how they are. That's why the records are that. Having said that, they do play the bangles and the Steelers back to back, and which should be some muckball. Oh, my God.

They're talking about chaotic energy. Them against the Steelers. Anything. Yeah. Anything. And then Falcons, again, same thing. And then Raiders and then Texans. So that's what they don't play really the true elite team.

the rest of the way. So that's why it's like, I think they're just gonna be hanging in all these games. So I think they could scrap a couple at least together. I get what you mean, though. I'm not totally sold on them because I just know what this kind of level they are. They're punching above their weight a little bit. They do nice things,

but I know what their cap is. But it's like, I don't know who's going to punish them the rest of the way. That's like my only thing that I kind of have to talk about both sides of my mouth. And I'm not even saying that they've won games they shouldn't have won because they've had ones go the other way. Oh, that Browns game that they put so many chaotic games this year. They put so many. kind of games. It's hard to keep track of whether

they're lucky or unlucky. Seriously, though. I just don't know if I buy it. Like, I just watch it down in and down out. It's so many bells and whistles. And it's like, eh, but this team wasn't supposed to be good. No. They weren't supposed to win six games. They just won their seventh. Yeah. So I, again, I think this is all house money. It's all decent vibes. But I just, I'm not sure how actually good they are. Yeah. So they're sitting at seven and five. The Texans are also sitting at seven and five. I do think I know how good the Texans are. Yeah. So they had a, weird win today that was not like a lot of the wins they've had this year. They had to lean on their

defense today. And it's funny how the NFL works. The Broncos have this five game winning streak. We'll talk about the Broncos here too. Broncos have this five game winning streak that is buoyed in large part by turnover luck. They got so many fumbles that bounced their way. It ran out today and then it flipped the other way. So they don't recover a CJ Stroud fumble. The next play start their drive, the first or second play of the next drive, Will Anderson tips the ball that's intercepted by Derek Stingley. And that's just how the NFL works. You're not going to get the brakes for that long consistently. And today, the breaks went the other way.

And obviously you have the interceptions, one of them being a tip ball, one of them being a desperation heap at the end, one of them being an incredible play by Derek Stingley. But it was really nice to see on a day where the Texans offense didn't have it quite the way that they have for most of the year. their defense and some of those young pieces on defense, Stingley and Anderson specifically rose to the occasion and won them a football game. Yeah, they kind of always attack the non-Certan corner can work for a while against his Broncos defense. But I do think the Broncos defense did do one thing that I was hoping some defense would

try against his Texas offense. They blitz on early downs. Blitz on early downs. And they got them. And I was on to something there. Yeah, their protection rules are a little. wonky those situations. So I was kind of like, Singleton got one, PJ Locke got one.

P.J. Walk got back to back. A TFL and then a sack on back to back once. I know. I knew, I knew you were going to bring that up because I was looking at it. It was like, all right, why did the Texans offense struggle today? And I think that is the biggest reason. And then drops. They had some big drops early in the second half. Noah Brown had a bad drop. And I want to say Brevin Jordan had one on the previous drive. So two straight drives, they had chunk plays that fell incomplete. And you combine that with some of those early down disruptions through blitzes. It was a very good game plan.

It was. The Broncos defense played better today than they've played over this five-game winning streak. Is that funny? Is that funny? Like, do you actually feel better about them? And that's the game after you're like, eh, they're kind of getting a little lucky. And that's, again, it's a reminder, though.

This is why Robert and I usually bring up, like, success rate or first and second down stuff, because that's kind of a little more sticky. That's, are you sustainable on top of some flash plays? Hopefully you have both. That's, ideally, you have both. That's kind of like sometimes we always bring that up. But the, I thought, too, was that, oh, man, but Stroud, oh, but Stroud, oh, my God, Straud, Stroud had some pocket movement stuff.

He's still, even in a game where their offense was uneven, that throw he had on the boot to the left, where he, like, cocks his arm back. I've said this all year. One of my favorite things about him is his ability to kind of adjust his arm angle up and throw balls over people in tight spaces. And that was the best example all year. He's booting to the left. The edge is screaming off.

and he has to pop it over him with almost no space to work. His ability to do that stuff, the guy is so fun to watch, even in a game like this where they scored 22 points and their offense wasn't very good. And he even created a penalty. He kind of, he baited a penalty out of Sinsengelton. That was great. He knew he got him too. He was looking at the rap as it was going on.

The Stingley pick was insane, by the way. Oh, yeah. It was an insane play, the second one. Like, that is just an absolutely ridiculous play. He's up and up and down this year. year, he got burned early in the game and should have gotten a PI. He's had some rough moments after coming back from injury, but you see some of the flashes and it's like, oh, we can build on this.

Well, this is a better use of him than playing cover two because he is, no, but he has just great instincts. That play was a, it was a great call actually by the Broncos. They ran a double move digging up against quarters and they caught Petrie. Did you see how hard Petrie because he got burned on the play, how hard he blocked after Stingley picked it off? It's hilarious. Anybody that goes back and watches it, watch him celebrate.

He just goes like, yes, because he's like, yes, I didn't get burned. And he tries to block somebody right away. It was hilarious. He's a fun player anyways, but he got caught there. But on that, because they're in this quarter's look for match, which is this is what D'Meco likes to run. This is why you can get, you know, you might get some stuff over the middle against this defense because they don't have Fred Warner and Dre Greenlaw patrolling the middle of the field. But on it, Stingley is that's technically. Technically, he has to overlap.

But usually on that, it's just to squeeze it to deter the throw because hopefully your safety is not going to, you're bracketing that route. If they're running a dig and he breaks inside, the safety drives on it because now we have two over one. So the dig and up is how to break that. But the fact he's stuck with it, as opposed to trying to fall off and do something else, it's just that awareness of that instincts. And of course, the play on the ball. That's what he's so good at is he's so great. This was wild interception. It's one of the best picks of the year in terms of like the ground covered plus the ball skills in.

the air. And then Will Anderson had a monster game today. So you have this young core of players defensively, specifically, that showed up in really big moments today. Unfortunately, losing Tankdale for the season as part of that young core, huge blow. I mean, that guy has been phenomenal. And the chemistry that he has was Stroud, I think, has really driven this offense in a lot of ways. Nico Collins had another great game. He's had a phenomenal season. I think that he's truly broken out in every way that you'd want. I knew it was coming. It was like one of the things I believed in my bones so deeply, but losing Tank Dell definitely takes away a layer from this passing offense. There's no denying that. And on top of that, you mentioned Reverend Jordan. Like,

no Dalton Schultz like today was pretty brutal. But it was also a tip of the cap to the Texans offense coaching staff. I could see how they were trying to short, like they used Jordan in different blocking than they would use with Schultz. And it's like, God, just again, like, you guys are aware. You guys know what you're doing. And it's, again, they do have some little different tweaks. I do want to say about the Broncos jujitsu fighting style that they do where they just get everybody on the floor. This is how we're going to get every game.

We're going to drag it out. Russ is going to try and scramble a few times. We're going to just do these heavy play action. Oh my God, we're in this game. They hit the touchdown to Sutton. I thought they would, it's weird. It's a 77 concept, which is a corner route and a deeper corner route.

We used to call it Bucky's locker room at Wisconsin because we had a Bucky's locker room, was the gear shop in the corner of the end zone. That was the route called a Bucky's locker room, run to the deep corner. They had Sutton run the deep route and Mims run the underneath route. It worked down to touchdowns, don't get me wrong. I'm not going to say champagne, you don't know what you're doing. But there was my overreception total right there for Mims was right there.

That was the play. I was picturing in my head. I was wondering why you're so fixated on this when the play worked and it was a beautiful throwing catch. That was the play. I was picturing in my head. I was like, they're going to run some deep corner. They're going to get them over the top.

They got it. But that was again, this is Broncos's office. offense, they can get these huge explosive plays, 12 personnel play action. That's, again, what's been getting this Texas defense a little bit. It's just those heavy play action stuff. Jimmy Ward did step up with a huge interception at the end of the game, but now this is kind of three weeks in a row. Teams are kind of getting after them with them.

So that is something that kind of sure up. So those two teams get to seven and five with wins. I feel pretty good about the Texans place in this. If I was betting on them compared to the Colts, I do think that they have a real shot, even without Dell. I think that they've shown a lot of nice flashes. two teams that lose games and drop them to seven and five, the Steelers and the Browns.

Kenny Pickett, ankle injury, he's going to be out for several weeks. Just a strange game. I mean, especially with some of the dropped shotgun snap that led to a turnover. They had a fourth and goal that they didn't score on. I am worried about what the offense will look like, what's your bischie, just the backup quarterback, even if Pickett isn't great. I think that's something to monitor moving forward.

The thing that it was really jumping out to me in this game, which is how banged up they are on defense. The fact that them digging so deep into the barrel at linebacker was really important in this game. It was one of the reasons that Trey McBride was just allowed to go off. I mean, Landed Roberts got hurt early in the game, and now they're down to, I don't even know who. I mean, a guy to wear number 93 was getting like real snaps for them at offball linebacker, and it was a concern. So I just don't know how much longer the black magic can keep up in terms of how they're consistently doing this. I think it's the fairy dust, however many mixed metaphors you want to use,

it's starting to wear off a little bit, but a decent amount of it is injury-driven. I love me my mixed metaphors. So you're speaking my language. But this was a shout out to the carpet merger. Did they talk about that today? I have these games muted. So anyone that talked about it, talk about it on the stream. But the Cardinals and the Steelers merged for one year in 1944.

And I only know this because the Vikings used to have a huge, like, uniform, like, logo of every team. And I was always like, what? They merged. Yeah. So they were the card in 1944. They didn't win a game. So the sports writers called.

They were the Chicago Cardinals, I assume. Yes. Chicago Cardinals. Yes. And there's the Stegals as well, the Steelers and the Eagles merged as well. So shout out to that game because the Cardinals have a lot of history. It's just not a lot of winning games because they did not win a single game that year either. But I do think like you're saying with the magic pixie dust with the Steelers team, it's

just thrown to ball is just such a misadvent. venture. And it's just like, it's not going to get any less adventurous. Right, with Chibisky. And he's going to have maybe a little bit more run around. But it's not like, that's what Pickett does too. It's not like he's a different flavor for what they're doing. They have found their way in the run game. I will say they have found some answers there. But like you're saying, the formula is defense, real, real good defense running the ball. And then the offense that throwing the ball once in a while, they could maybe hit an explosive play. But it's like, if you're going to take away a defense from actually being a needle moving unit, then that gets a little scary. And I, Like you said, this Cardinal team is freaking frisky, though. And they're going to find. If you do have a weakness, they will find it. I do like what they do. So they found it today. We'll talk a little bit more positive Cardinal stuff a little bit later in the show.

But similar kind of conversation to the Steelers. A team banged up on defense really showed up today. The Browns falling to seven and five. Strange game. You have Joe Flacco showing some real competence within that offense. I think he gives them probably the best shot that they've had at quarterback without Watson. I mean, just the ability to push the ball down the field, the decision-making.

so many aspects of this. I mean, he doesn't throw that pick. There's a very good chance they win this game. I mean, that's a horrendous mistake. But down in and down out, I thought that he really gave them something. On the other side of the ball, they really missed Denzel Ward in this game. They missed him so much. Mike Ford, number 28, just consistently got picked on over and over and over again.

And I think that combined with all of the motion and all the communication that they were forcing that defense into. And then the pass protection. I thought they had a really good plan for how to slow that front down, whether it was with some of the perimeter runs that we were talking about, some of the motions, some of the chips, etc. So the Browns are, this is what they kind of are. You know, the offense lives on the margins. The offense lives in a very narrow band of what it can do.

And if the defense has some down moments here and there, I know the Rams scored 36 points. They didn't really. That was driven by the final couple drives. They were in the entire game. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a tight game. Down in and down out, I still think that the Rams offense got the better of them more often than a lot of offense. has had, but you could really see where they were missing guys in this game. Yeah, especially when Cooper went down.

That first drive, though, was magical. That touchdown drive and the throwback to Jerome Ford, I was like, this might work. My work. And then, you know, the reality sets in. It's fun, nice having five games left and kind of going like, okay, how do they match up as we kind of get more data points? So they go Jags, Bears, Texans, Jets, Bengals. Jags is kind of a terrible matchup for them a little bit as long as like the, as far as how their defense plays.

But it's like the rest of the way, it's like what, okay, Bears playing a little better, but okay, but then Texans defense is like, is that, that game is actually going to be closer than I think people would assume maybe right now as far as how the Brown's defense can play. But then the Jets, okay, Bengals, going to be rock fights. But what I'm saying all this is they can still be in it. That's what's ridiculous. All of these teams have a path.

Every single one of these teams has a path. I, right now, today, I think the Texans are the most. dangerous because of the level that their offense can reach and because of the quarterback play among all of these teams. That is who I would pick. And I'm talking about teams that play today. The bills are still the most dangerous. The bills even at six and six are absolutely still the most dangerous team.

Josh sounds healthy. They are the most dangerous team. Like that's how it goes. Them, it was a big day for them today. For those two teams to fall to seven and five and them to get one step closer potentially to getting into this. But it is a mess and it is going to be a mess that is, worth keeping tabs on here as we move forward here over the next month.

Yep, I feel with you. I'm with you. It's going to be a lot fun. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. Talking about a couple performances, games that just left us disappointed today. I want to start with the New Orleans Saints and the game they had against the Lions. It's not like it was a disaster.

It looked like it was going to be. They fell into a huge hole. Offense comes back. Actually had a decent day offensively before Derek. Carr got hurt. They were moving the ball fairly consistently. A lot of chunk plays. We haven't really talked about the Saints at all, and I felt this was a good opportunity

to do so. Because even in this game, where they kept pace with the Lions, I'm sitting here watching it. And the prevailing feeling that I have is they did all of this for this. They did all of that stuff for this, for this version of this team, giving Derek Carr $60 million a year, trading up for Trevor Penning in the draft, all of the money they can continue to move around. Committing to Dennis Allen and this staff for continuity

because you're trying to squeeze everything you can out of this version of the franchise. They made all of these short-term leverage moves for this. And that's how I felt about the Saints for most of this year. But it was really apparent today as they lose one more game and fall another game back of the Falcons in the NFC South. To do everything they did

and to make all of these win-now moves that they have for this final product, I just am so unmoved by what they are in the hierarchy of the league overall. All these wind now moves and they're still drawing up red zone plays for Jimmy Graham. It's like, like, really? Like, come on. You've got some guys that you can do stuff with. Why are you drawing plays up for Jimmy Graham?

What is this team? Just when you look at, you know, you look online and look at the contract stuff. And of course, that's where we're probably talk about. But you look at all the void years, everybody. he has and all the orange, just orange, orange, orange, orange, orange. Most teams have a couple, you know, just two, three, four, five, depending on the team. It's just everybody.

Just every single guy has it on this roster. So it's just what now? This is what you got and how are you going to get out of this? And especially at the quarterback situation. And we, and I agree. Actually, on the rewatch and stuff like that because I saw the line just pulled ahead right away. And I kind of like, it's like, okay, corner screen, multi-view, as opposed to main screen on a

monitor or something like that. But just just watching all that, it was just you got Andrus Pete at left tackle. You know, that's one of the, that's one of the ones, the hardest to stomach. See that. The fact that Trevor Bennett, Petting was just benched this year. And then they're rolling with Andres Pete at left tackle as part of this overall plan. And they needed to trade up in the draft to go get Trevor Penning and what they gave away. You know, they're giving the 40, right now, if it ended today, they would give the 44th pick in the draft to the Eagles as part of that move.

you forget this shit. You just forget that it happens. But that's where this team is. They have a fourth round pick that they're giving to the Jags as part of a trade up in last year's draft. You just go through it. And every year, they're just missing picks here or there for whatever reason. They get a couple more in the Sean Payton trade. But I remember when that happened when they were trading up for all these picks and they

were making all these moves in the 2022 draft. And Saints fans were saying, well, they're going to get. some back for trading for Sean Peyton. Wouldn't it be nice to have more picks than you need? Yeah. Yeah. I have multiple. There's no rule that you can only have one first round pick. You can have more than one.

And so again, just all of these moves for a team that is the oldest team in the NFL, right? You talk about what's going to happen here for the next couple years. They're so slow. It's so slow. They're so slow. You could just feel how old and cranky. Like you can feel

them creaking on that. of the ball, even if the defense has been solid. But this whole formula that they had, we're going to try to get everything we can out of this. If we drop Carr into this over Andy Dalton, that can put us in the mix. That formula required you playing top five defense. Yep. Top five defense. And they're not bad defensively, but they're not elite defensively.

And it was easy to see that coming. I know Marshawn Latimore is hurt, but they're the second oldest defense in the league. They have 19 sacks, which is. 30th in the NFL. Cam Jordan played like a third of the plays today. Everything about it just leaves me so unmoved. And to be, have that reaction when you watch them and to know that they're driving off a cliff here at some point in the next couple of years, it would just be really

difficult to stomach if I was a fan of this team. And I know a lot of them have rationalized it and said, what were they supposed to do? Like this team doesn't rebuild. I'd rather have a team that tries to win. This is what trying to win looked like. This is what you've been left with. And what's funny is like even the game today, like you said, like success rate and everything, it's very high today.

And EPA, but like their expected vibes added is just bad. It's like just watching this team. It just feels bad. Like you said, creaky. It just feels wrong. Like nothing just feels right. Pete playing left tackle is a perfect example. Some of their plays, like who they're designing plays for.

It's like, oh, you're going with that retread. Like you're okay, you're going like that. And I think too is like they almost like made the move for car like the Bucks did a few years ago for for Brady thinking like this is it. That's the needle mover. We got the rest of the pieces there. And I think they just thought those rest of the pieces, those shiny toys like were shinier than they actually are. A lot of it is. But I think a lot of the other guys they're like, yeah, we got all these stars everywhere.

It's like more, you got more solid. And you got more fine as opposed to like all these guys are all pros or pro bowl call or high quality starters all over the offense. and defense. And poses, it was just more a lot of fineness. That's what this team is. They paid a lot for fineness. They're paying a lot to a quarterback that has the same exact successor as Desmond Ritter right now.

Same EPA per dropback as Gardner Minchu. And they're paying a lot more money than those guys are getting paid for right now for the same type of production. $60 million guaranteed. So he has a $35 million cap at next year. He has a $17 million dead cap hit in 2025. That's the problem with this is that it's not like you're just falling short in 2023.

It's that every decision that you made is going to negatively affect this. team two years from now. There's a commitment. When you should be in some version of a rebuild. I mean, they have so many guys. I think Cameron Jordan's at $13 million in potential dead money in 2025. Alvin Camara has like double digit dead money potentially in 2025. There's going to be so many guys that just are another anchor on this team as they try to turn

the page into whatever the next era of this looks like. And to pay that tax for this final product, it's nothing but underwark. Tommy. That's exactly it. I'm looking, James Winston has void ears. Camaro, voideers. Jamal Williams, void ears. Michael Thomas, voideers. Tasum Hill, voideers. Juan Johnson, voideers. Foster Moreau, Voidiers. Ryan Ramchick, Voidiers, Underspeed, voideers. James Hurst, voideers. Oh, my God. There's about 10 defense guys that have voidiers. There's just, the outs are just terrible. Even if they, like, next year, they hit a quarterback. They draft Daniels in the first round, QB3. and they take him in the first round.

There's still, there's not that, that's not like a clean quarterback break. And you just enter this new chapter. No matter what, they're going to have baggage and a lot of baggage. And it's just, I don't know how they're going to strip it. That is a very good way to put it. No matter what they are going to have baggage as they try to turn the page and it's going to make the next stage of things more difficult. So I've just been waiting to have that conversation because we haven't really done it with the Saints because, again, the season's just been so forgettable in ways neither terrible nor great. but today was just one of those where I'm watching the game against the

Lions because it was the local game. So it's just on one TV the entire day and I'm just watching this team and just like left completely cold. And that's just kind of how they feel right now. Speaking of being left completely cold, the Falcons Jets game, everything about it disappointed me today. Just in an unwatchable slate of games early on, which it really did feel like there was so much unwatchable football in the noon slate,

this might have been the peak because I'm so, far past what the Chargers and Patriots are. I'm so far past it. This game felt more disappointing to me because I guess there was some vestige of hope I had left for this being watchable. And it was the opposite of that. On the Falcon side more than anything else. Yeah, more of the Falcon side.

But Jets' defense played their part. It was, yeah, and the weather played its part. But it's Ron Torbert is making me very aware of which games him and his crew are officiating every single week because it's a thing people it is the worst officiating crew i have seen him quite some time hockley used to run a loose ship for for a while and he used to have a lot because hockley always made sure if you ever notice well she's retired now his son's still in it so uh night game hockley was a very much a thing you're gonna get a lot of calls with night game hockey so yeah that was always thing always a lot of talking with the quarterbacks in the huddle

but torbert your crew's on notice it's not a lot of times you see a head coach get the bonus third challenge because they go two and oh. They have stripped away so many, they've made so many, so many calls and so many reviews automatic now. So that kind of, that kind of fell by the wayside, the third bonus challenge.

They got it today. Arthur Smith got it because Garrett Wilson caught one ball with one foot and one foot that landed four yards out of bounds. This game, because I wanted the other three games, ended up as one of my multi-view screens. So that's why I'm fixated on this. And I realized that Torberts crew was there.

And I was like, oh, this. And I saw the point total was 33. So I was like, oh, this is she with them. Yeah. As someone that survived 2001 Jags, mm-hmm. This is going to be right up my alley. So Gary Wilson, only gets one foot foot in. The sideline judge is five feet away.

Like, you can tell the commentator's like, oh, that's going to be out of balance. Oh, they gave it to him. Clear review, easily out of balance. Then Trevor Simeon, he comes in because, yeah, because we got the other stuff with the previous quarterback. So Simeon comes in. he gets stripped fumbled. Thank God the rest tonight with the Chiefs Packers game weren't good, but they at least let that fumble go because they know it's automatic reviewed.

They blew the whistle dead here, and it was just clearly a fumble. Like, clearly his arm was not, the ball was out before his arm was going, even from the far, far, met life, terrible stadium angles. And so he gets hit and fumbled. It would have been a fumble return for a touchdown, probably clinched the game for the Falcons. Instead, we could just drag through our misery in the rain because then they review it. because of where it's picked up, it's spotted there. Falcons, of course, just get blasted backwards.

And then that was it. Jets had interception negated. Falcons had several big plays negated. Calipitz had a great block in line. I was like, wow, Kyle Pitts is the tight end. It gets called for a holding after it was like an explosive run. So it was like the point like the reps. Like, Drew's like, hey, it's 33. Let's make sure. Like it's more 13 guys. Let's do that. We had a safety. The Jets got the voodoo eight, which is two field goals. Two field goals and safety. I was like, you got. I can't do this. When it was two to nothing, I could not believe that that tool is unfolding. Two field goals and a safety. They didn't even get the, they didn't get the traditional eight. They got the voodoo eight. Oh,

no. No consistency either. Jets DB just tackle Jonu Smith in the end zone. That was just the same as the one we saw in the Chiefs game tonight. Right in front of them. That's why I don't get it. The ball's going there. It's not like it just happened on the other side,

but good stuff today. Really good. Oh, where does Tim Boyle? River fumble the first play. So it was like, we're off to a great start. Like that was like, I was like,

Yeah, not like he didn't lose it, but it was the fumbled snap again, working left. Where does Tim Boyle to Trevor Simeon rank in like the all-time saddest quarterback benchings that have ever happened? It's up there. It hasn't so nonchamantly too. Of course. Because everyone was like, yeah, that has to happen. Like there's no way that he can continue to play. And doing that, going from Boyle to Simeon on the same day where Joe Flacco looks like a competent NFL quarterback.

And it's not like Joe Flacco is some far off option. he was on the team last year. Last year. We're 19. It was ugly. He was on the team last year. And now you're going from these two guys in a season where you put so much into it and you are willing to ride with Zach Wilson and then whoever.

And you had so many chances at any point in the season to pick up the phone and call Joe Flacco. Maybe they did. But I don't think they did. Based on every conversation we've had with Diana over the course of the year, it doesn't sound like they did. So for that to happen on the same day where they go to Simi and it's just, absolutely brutal, but an unwatchable game on an unwatchable day. Thanks for all that,

I bet, guys. That was great. That was actually, like, really therapeutic because I, like, paid way too much attention to that game. It was because I realized some bad stuff was happening. That game was bad. The Chargers Patriots game might as well have not even happened. Yeah.

It truly might as well have not even happened. It was a six-nothing game. There are two 38-yard field goals. Ezekiel Elliott had 92 yards from scrimmage. It was the most of anybody in the game. Austin Eckler had 27 yards on 16. touches. Alex Erickson caught a pass. Oh yeah. Clenched it. Go badgers. That, uh, oh, the Chargers runoffacks. How about that six successful carries on 21 design rushes. I think are charges

in total. Those carries. This is a Chargers successful carries today. Four yards. Seven yards. Two yards, two yards, five yards, four yards. That's a hell of a day on the ground for that, for that Chargers team. Uh, yeah, no juice, no juice. This entire game, no juice, other than even Herbert made a ridiculous third and extra long throw to Quinn Johnson. It just hit Johnson right in the hands. It's just like, that was the game right there. He stops running again. Yeah.

Again, he stopped running on that play. I just want to pretend those teams don't exist. We already said too much about them, but that game was so ugly. We thought we needed to acknowledge it in some way. All right, let's get to the Sunday notebook. A few more things that we want to hit before we get out of here. Another monster game in a monster season for Tyree Kill. Five catches, 157 yards.

It just seems like every single week. I look up and he's catching a 60-yard touchdown and making it look easy. It didn't seem to matter that Washington fired its defensive coordinator. Same old stuff. But the year that he's putting together, odd pace for 131 catches for almost 2100 yards, 16-game pace would just break Calvin Johnson's record by about 10 yards based on what he's doing right now. It's been ridiculous. Yeah. Like you said, it's every time you look up, it was like to flash there, it was just the same kind of thing.

It's just like catch and run. No one else on the screen. No one else is catching them. That's it. Play over. It's just like balls in the air. And there goes Tyrick Hill for another one. Yeah.

So it's ridiculous. I thought CD Lamb was, okay, here we go. C.D. Lamb, offensive player of the year case. Oh,

maybe here we go. And then Tyree is just like, nah, I'm just going to go for a buck 50 and two touchdowns and have highlights with it too. So it's a little tough to top what he's doing right now. The adjustment on the second one in real time while that ball is in the air to switch shoulders and make.

Oh, yeah. I mean, just. going back outside on that. I know. He's been absolutely insane the entire season.

What he's done this year is really changed everything about who that team can be. I still believe that the MVP probably has to be a quarterback in 2023, but he is putting together one of the most compelling cases

for a non-quarterback in a very long time. And I'm sure that's a conversation we will continue to revisit here over the next month. Trey McBride. Trey McBride moments. Talks about some good vibes

with the Cardinals. that guy is for real. He's real. He is a legit piece for that team moving forward. They had him today. There was, that 99 yard drive was just the Trey McBride drive at a certain point. They had him singled up as the ex-receiver running a route against corners.

And he was just making the stuff happen. Like he is the best weapon on their team right now. It's kind of wild to watch. He beat McA Fitzpatrick. Fitzpatrick's just come back from AJ. But beat him one-on-one. Like just over the slot, like contested catch over-rout, over the middle, just dunked. on him. They ran a screen for him. He's the real deal. And him and Kyle are some real chemistry.

Like that is, this has been a few weeks now. They, they, like, they have a mind mel going on right now. So, God, get them like one more weapon. I really, this cardinals team is frisky. This is one of my picks. Tyson's touts, three and oh. We got to bring up the record next week. Because I think I have stacked together a couple of strong weeks. It was a good month. But no, it was this Cardinals team is frisky. Kyle is getting asked to do stuff. He's scratching an itch. He hasn't really had to scratch in the NFL, I think, mentally as a quarterback. And you can even see it.

His arm wristbands flapping around. And that's a reminder. It's like, oh, he has to use a wristband now as opposed to Cliff Kingbury's old system. And I think that's leading to a lot of growth with this offense. It's really cool that he has a weapon with McBride. And it's like, I want to see where this thing's going. I really hope they keep running this with Drew Petting and everything because they're doing some really nice things. it really does feel like he might be the quarterback there next year.

Based on how the rest of the season could go, but also the way that things look over there. This win drops them into the third spot. They have three wins now. And I don't know if the Patriots are going to win again. And they're now two games ahead of the Panthers. So there's a very good chance they come away with a third or fourth pick in this draft. And guess what? Guess what that probably means?

You're dropping Marvin Harrison Jr. into this equation. You already have a starting right tackle in Paris Johnson. We like what Ray McBride is. if they keep rolling with Kyler, that seems like it might be the foundation for them moving forward. This year was all about vibes and building blocks for the Cardinals. And I think that they have done a decent job in both of those categories. And based on conversations with people there, they're really happy with everything they've gotten from Kyler. Not just from on the field play, but in terms of approach, in terms of communication, they're happy with what they've gotten.

Everything they've asked of him, he has risen to the occasion. So we'll see what happens over the next couple months, but I would not be shocked if he ended up being the starting quarterback there next year. I wouldn't either. It's palpable, though. It's another thing where I'm watching this team. They had a touchdown recently. I want to say it was the Rams movie last week, but somewhere recently. And it was definitely a designer play where you always see the point.

Rogers always loved doing this. Like, you know, the point at the coach, you know, like a certain play just got called. Certain touchdown happened. Kyler and I think Petzing had that moment after a play. And it's like you, I think it was like Kyler, moment kind of like, I trusted you there and you were right. And it's, I think after the last couple of years, it's kind of really cool to see this like, he's playing with just, I think he's going like, this is fun, like playing this game and getting better. Like, he's getting better.

It's really, really cool watching Kyle and again, this whole team right now. Talk about the bad Saints vibes. Carnals are the exact opposite. All the vibes are very good right now. Sticking with young tight ends, Sam Laporta had a monster day. And similarly, he was the most important past catcher on that Lions team today. I mean, they're dialing stuff up for him in really important moments. What he has done this year as a rookie is unbelievable. And I know Kyle Pitts at 1,000 yards as a rookie, Kyle Pitts is a phenomenal receiving talent.

It has been a long time since we have seen a rookie tight end that is asked to do as much as Sam Leporta is in multiple facets have the impact that this guy has had on an elite offense. I mean, what he has been for this team, which is a top five offense and a lot of metrics, it's been different than we've gotten from that position in a really long time. Yeah, they use them in key moments. Ben Johnson, he's the best probably designery guy outside that doesn't have a true Shanahan

affiliation. I guess he kind of does, though. What I think about that, though, is that I do think he's the best designery guy in terms of seeking out explosives over the course of the game, right? Like, the amount of just one-off plays where it's a league player or it's this or it's that it's a weird flea flicker. They seem to have like two or three plays a game that are designed to just be really wonky chunk plays combined with the really just well designed offense that they run.

And I think that formula in this day and age when it's just really hard to seek out explosives, the fact that they have seemingly one or two every game that are just game plan plays, I think is a really big part of why this team is successful. Oh yeah. I'm not saying just because they have that doesn't mean they don't do the down-to-down stuff. It's I think what they're doing with even how they ask their pizzas. pieces to play. Like, they're asking James and William's to be a real receiver. And again, that's paying dividends. Like, not just the end around TD. They're actually making them run real routes

over the middle. But again, this is, I mean, wind the clock that I do on YouTube. The lions have been highlighted twice this year. They got highlighted twice last year. It's because just his third down shot play zone, which is just outside the red zone, their red zone, true red zone stuff, their gimmick plays or trick plays. It's like, this is the same offense that threw a ball to the right tackle last year for a clinching for a clenching pass play and then at the same time they'll do double moves and it's such a funky group of receivers but again it's another coach that understands his personnel and then on top of it it's like and they have the offensive line when they're clicking it's and the two running backs clicking it's just one after another

it just seems like these guys like caliph reman got an end around and i remember to myself i thought god why are they giving caliph raymond when they have jameson williams on that and then the next quarter they run another end around to jameson sims and it goes for a touchdowns like oh he was shout out of a cannon. It was one of the fastest moments I've seen from a player this entire year. He's so fast. He got that ball on his hands. It was crazy. Speaking of receivers, last thing would hit here. A couple big days from impending free agent wide receivers. Mike Evans with another monster day. He's on track for another 1,000-yard season with double-digit touchdowns. Excuse me. He already has 1,000 yards. They broke the touchdowns in this game. Okay? So broke it today. Just another really good season for

him already into his 30s. Michael Pittman, another double-digit catch game. for 105 yards and a touchdown. I'm keeping tabs on what this group is going to look like because in pre-agency recently at the position, we just haven't had any options. For the most part, these guys are getting re-signed. And I think for a lot of different reasons, this group in this class could look a little bit different. Evans is into his 30s.

We'll see what happens with the bucks. They have already an expensive piece they paid a receiver, Godwin. We'll see if he's going to be part of this thing moving forward. would they tag him? Because they didn't extend him. Would they tag him? Is he worth that? Is he not?

Is he going to hit the market? T. Higgins is a free agent. Michael Pittman's in a new coaching staff. Even if he's played well, they haven't paid him. Is he a tag candidate? So how many of these guys that are actually, how many of these guys are actually going to hit free agency? How many of these receivers that are set to be free agents are actually going to get

there? Because it's the most intriguing group we've had in a while. On top of it, it's a loaded wide receiver class, not just Marvin Harrison Jr., but Dana and I talked, because we, you know, back half the first round round as, you know, guys have second round grades kind of seep in. And him and I agree that we have four, really more five receivers that each have true first round grades, meaning top 20-ish grade. And that's on top of other guys that can sneak in.

I had my mock draft eight receivers going to the first round. And I'm a tough receiver grader. And it's big receivers. It's totally different than last year, too. It's Xs and Zs and guys that could do both. And really, there is a Chris Godwin clone in Roman Duzier from Washington. He was awesome. And I just saw him live on Friday.

I liked him before that. But really, even the receiver two kind of battle is going to be fascinating outside of behind Marvin Harrison, Jr. But it's like three guys that can really be top 12-ish picks. But why I'm saying that on top of this free agency class, it's like, you need some weapons. It's like, here you go. Like you got a spring that you can find some guys. Tight-in class, not so much. Receiver class, oh, yeah.

You can maybe find a guy. That's including Brock Bowers, actually, tight-end. So I will say that this intriguing pass-catcher group, especially if you're a contender or a team that's trying to find their first or second piece. Yeah. So another big day for those guys is they continue to potentially make themselves a lot of money this off-season. All right.

That's all we got. Wild week. A lot of stuff we're digging into. Really fun week of football. We will be back all week, as we always are. So please come back and check out everything on the channel. please like and subscribe to the YouTube channel. If you guys watch the YouTube or you're watching it right now,

you're watching this a little bit later, we'd really appreciate that. If you want to give me an early Christmas present, early end of the year present, please go leave a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. If you want to leave us five stars on Spotify, you want to leave us an extra review on Apple, I would consider it a personal favor to me if you've enjoyed the show over the years and have not done that yet. So really, really appreciate it.

Really appreciate all of you listening. We'll be back later this week. you guys soon. This was the athletic football show.