The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 14 Recap: Cowboys get their big win, Bills beat Chiefs, Lions and Texans disappoint, and more

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

The Cowboys? They're in first place in the NFC East. The 49ers? They now lead the entire conference. The Bills? They're right back in this thing. And the Wild Card races? Well, the Wild Card races stay wild. Robert Mays and Nate Tice dig into all the key Week 14 results and stories on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTube Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me tonight. It's my good friend Nate Tyson. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well. Although there was a couple more QB injuries, it was still a very enjoyable slate of games from kick.

Awesome day. From whistle to whistle. It was fantastic. I think I sparked it. You guys can all thank me. I got a workout in this morning. So I started December Strong. I started the January, you know, January.

January New Year's resolution a month before. Like I didn't start January 1st to get back in shape. No, we're just going to start in December. So started the day off strong. I thought it was such a great slate of games. Can't wait to talk about them today. So many great games, tons of important implications in those games. The wildcar races are a mess.

Just an absolute mess. We'll do a little bit of a check-in on those a little bit later. Talk about some of the more entertaining games that we saw today. But let's start with the game that we just watched. Everything that happened to the Cowboys since the buy. everything always came with the caveat of who have they beaten who have they beaten where's there a moment that's true for the cowboys it's true for mike mccarthy it's true for dac prescott's MVP candidacy here we are they come in and get a monstrous decisive impressive win over the eagles puts them in first place in the nfc east and here we go we got three teams with three

losses in the nfc the three elite teams we thought we would have coming into the season they're all at various states right now. It's been, there's been some vacillations in those years for all three. But Dallas made a monstrous statement today and kind of asserted themselves in that race. And it's going to be a sprint to the finish line here. But the Cowboys are looking to be in very good shape. Yeah. And they got a couple real tough, real interesting, real fun matchups. All teams will probably be talking about later in the show. But I thought this was a complete Cowboys victory tonight. And it was one that they kind of needed. It was almost like exercising some demons, almost like that Bucks playoff win last year was like, okay, all right, a little bit of

something just off our chest, off our backs. And it felt like this game was a little bit, even though they won, it was, you know, Gardner-Minshoe last year when they beat the Eagles last year and this kind of current iteration of the Eagles, uh, G. Owen Hertz missed that game at home at Dallas. Um, it felt even after the fumble return for a touchdown, it felt like just the Cowboys were in control the whole game. And, you know, they got some fumble luck, of course, but they were, I thought the game playing that the Cowboys had an offense was just great. everything made total sense. The touch,

it felt like everyone that made a big play offense and defense for the Cowboys, it was like, oh, these are these new guys that they really are highlighting Stefan Gilmore, Brandon Cooks, even Gallup was getting some shine today. You saw Jake Ferguson have some nice plays as well.

And then you see deck kind of hitting almost every throw, you know, a couple blemishes, but just totally in control of the game. So, I mean, yeah, they may have so much about its cadence,

the here we go stuff. But all of his pre-step operation is starting to get highlighted. And it should be because that's just been such, something that's really been fun to watch with Dak Prescott, but this is the most of the it feels pre-snap and post-knap that he's in control. And really, the Cowboys as a whole feel like they're in control. We were excited about the Cowboys roster coming into this season. Going out and making the moves that they did for Cooks and Gilmore, it felt like, okay, those were two big holes. It was second corner and finding another pass catcher somewhere along the way. And them showing up at the

moments that they did today, I think is kind of a reminder of what the promise was for this team coming into the season. The elements we couldn't necessarily have predicted are how well designed the offense would be after they came out of the by and figured out who they wanted to be and the level that Dak Prescott is playing at. So everything else that got people excited about what this Dallas Cowboys team could be has fallen into place. And then their quarterback is playing the best ball of his entire career. And the offense is even more dynamic and exciting than I think anyone could have hoped in the best possible version that you were considering for what this team would look like. And when you can take all of that in concert with each other, you come to a

conclusion where this team can maybe do something. This team might be able to make some serious noise. And again, that feels like such a huge departure from that moment that they got blown out by the Niners on Sunday night and the conversation we had immediately after that game. I thought the, you know, the Eagles back end, I felt like the Cowboys, this current iteration of them, especially, matched up extremely well. I think we both did. I think that was kind of the joke. It was like, hey, they could just copy that game plan. But how that they were able to mitigate some of that Eagles pass rush, yes, a couple of moments happen. That makes me just like we'll feel like just a little bit better for their prospects because that is something that gives them issues. And then like you said, just all these guys cooks, Gallup, Ferguson, even just, you know, the different running backs getting moments now.

but it's just that now they're have these are been huge questions it's like who are the secondary characters oh are you once cd lamb gets washed out of the game how are you guys going to find big plays or find anything and they just went well we're going to you know we're going to double down on cd but then we're going to actually have everybody else make sense i i thought the uh the post route to brand of cooks was just like a great kind of just like moment uh it was he got tackled at the one and then they try to and then they try to give him the touchdown on the next play and i think I mean, I think Dak right away just threw a fade ball next play. And I think Gallup got the touchdown to play after that.

But on that one, they have CD in the slot. He's running a dig. It's a Mills concept, which is a dig in a post. But on that, I would say old iterations of this Cowboys team, who would be running the post on that? You got CD at the dig, but who is there to take advantage on the post? Because Gallup was at the X, which is basically where he always is. He's the isolated guy. But who is it?

And so now, I mean, last year, who they signed? Tyy Hilton at the end of the season. Yeah. But a great third and forever play on the one one time. But Brandon Cooks is such a level above, two levels above what T.Y. Hilton was last year. And now you can take this play, it's an explosive. And it's just clean.

It's a great throw. But this team is just now, they're just clicking. I mean, when they run jet sweeps, it always makes sense. They had several plays called back because of holding calls today. And they, like, they would have even more explosive plays on offense. And on top of it, they have a kicker. They kick like 70-yarders. It's ridiculous.

The 50-yarder hit it into the game. It was so casual. This guy makes it look. so easy. What he's doing right now is insane. He had the crossbar twice on kickoffs. And like, even like, Tariko was kind of going like, are you seeing this? Like everyone, like even the ref was like, you got seeing this? And then the 59, the 60 yarder, I've never heard a crowd feel so calm on a 60 yarder. He kicked it and no one, there was no doubt. He kicked it. And everyone just was like, yeah, that's in like good from 70. Yeah, Brandon Aubrey. He's insane. Truly a weapon for this team

right now. Brandon Cook's emerging is a really big answer to a question of who those secondary pass catchers are going to be. But Jake Ferguson, that's another thing we couldn't necessarily have planned for. Even if you were optimistic about what Jake Ferguson could be within this offense, the fact that he's a real weapon in high leverage moments, that's just one more layer to this thing that, again, makes them much more dangerous and much more potent than anyone could have predicted, even if you felt good about this team coming into the season. If he was one for, I thought he was going to be at best one for one with Schultz. Exactly.

Maybe. And he's better already. And this is year two for him. I mean, he's great. He stretches the feel for them. Because he's an explosive player too. I mean, the third and six DAC had to him in the second half, there's a free runner. But Ferguson wins and catches a contested catch right there and then creates the explosive

play after it. It's like that's the difference. Schultz would probably maybe catch that, maybe in the contest it. But he's not creating that explosive afterwards. And this seems stretching. There was that 27-yarder against. that sim pressure, I think it was in the third quarter where he hits him going up against the seam and that they scored a touch on that drive to go up 17 to 3. He gives them a reliable

element, an explosive element at that position that I don't think you could count on coming into the year. And then again, the last layer to this is the DAC is playing as well as any player at football at any single position right now. Since week eight, he has created 101 total EPA. No one else in the league is above like 65. That's where Purdy is. That's how good he has been since the And the Niners' offense has been unbelievable. But what DAC is doing playing and play out, game in and game out right now, and the last two weeks against borderline playoff competition and against a 10-win Eagles team, now it's starting to feel very real.

And that MVP case that he's making feels very real. On the flip side of this, the Eagles are starting to feel pretty human after the last three weeks. They slip by a Buffalo team. They absolutely could have lost that game. They get destroyed by the Niners, and then they get handled in this game today. do we think that the issues we're seeing and have seen Creepubh over the last couple weeks? Is that something that gets fixed by the end of the year? Is this just a flawed team that kind of outpaced what they were supposed to be in the win column for the first 12 weeks?

How do you feel about the Eagles right now? It's kind of, this is the stuff that they've gotten away with is kind of now rearing its ugly head, especially the turnovers. I think several people have the kind of the tweet of the stat that the first game, there's three Eagles fumbles and they recovered all of them. in this game they had three fumbles and they didn't recover any of them. And I think some of that is kind of biting them. The inconsistencies in the passing game is very real. And I do think that's becoming a thing. I think defenses are just smarter.

They're playing safe and umbrella and even or they bring pressures and take advantage of some stuff and heat up hurts or make them feel tight that he has to make a play. That fourth down was a great example of Dan Quinn did. What he did blitz them and just, I'm going to make you throw short of the chains. And we're going to rally and tackle. That's what teams are betting on doing now. They're saying, we'll rally. Once in a while, AJ Brown is going to run over three guys.

Like, it's going to happen. Dallas got her. It's going to throw off two guys. But more often than that, we can tackle you sure the sticks and make that happen. And I think defensively, this is just the issues. This is the spine. I mean, one thing is the Eagles I've just gone through a brutal stretch. So they can take a deep breath.

And it's kind of that classic bar right now. I kind of feel like they're the flip of like how I feel with the Eagles or maybe just the four-nangers are that good. Where it's like, I feel like the Eagles can beat up every other team of the NFC, except for maybe the top competition. But then what are you playing the playoffs? The top competition. So it's kind of funny how that kind of... It's the same conversation we used to have about the Cowboys.

It kind of has shifted a little bit, how I kind of feel about these teams. But the Cowboys had to get kicked in the teeth to kind of discover this. And that, I mean, it's... For years, they have to get kicked in the team. Yeah. This was a total, like, revamp of this offense or just a kind of increase in one area. But, no, I am... This Eagles team does have some blemishes.

I do think the passing game, I think they get away from the run game too much. which I do think is a classic, you know, football guy line, but I do think that's a real thing with this team. I think when they pass the ball, again, I think Hertz is just kind of inconsistent, kind of is reading it out. Once in a while, he gets hot and he starts feeling it. Like, I think that fumble that happened early in the game really took a lot of air out of their sales. And that's what kind of really just stunted this offense. So I do have some inconsistency. I do see inconsistency with it.

And it's been most of the season now. and I haven't seen real improvement or consistent improvement. They get the Seahawks, the Giants twice, and the Cardinals to end out the season. So if you want to build back up some confidence, that's a run where you're going to be able to do it. But I think that observation about how the conversation has flipped a little bit is really interesting. And now, as the Cowboys have ticked off the answers to these big questions, there's one that's still looming. There's still a monster at the end of the road. Yes.

And until they can beat that Niners team, none of this shit matters. Even if DAC wins the MVP, even if the narratives change for guys like him and Mike McCarthy and what they've done this year, that is going to be the big question that they have to answer at the end of this. And now I'm really excited for them to potentially get a chance. I hope so. I really do. It would be just such a cool, just kind of like trilogy, even though the 40-9ers have kind of stomped on the other, well, really, it's the fourth matchup, really. But I think it's just what this Cowboys team has done, I think it's just so cool to watch this offense becomes so aggressive, but not wacky.

Just very, just the classics and see an operator playing at this level. None of it feels lucky. This is earned. It's really good players operating and good coaching right now. Mike McCarthy and this offense staff should get commended. And Dan Quinn and the defense revamping on the fly without digs and kind of figure out their answers on demons without Vanderech and finding their answers too and still bringing and still being aggressive.

It's a very good team. The DAC conversation and the DAC trajectory this year to me is a reminder of how important it is to have a quarterback that you can win with consistently because when you get everything falling into place, you can have this type of season. In a way, it reminds me of the 2016 Matt Ryan year. And it reminds me of the first year that Matthew Stafford had with the Rams, where this guy that we think we know and we think we'd be able to put him into a box, we know what he is. Sometimes when you change the dials just a little bit in a couple important areas, you have that one spike year where they can take you over the top. And having that guy

and making sure, all right, at the center of this, we have somebody that can take us there if other things fall into place. And that's what this reminds me. It reminds me of that 2016 Falcons year. And it reminds me of how when we were watching those guys, I remember going to Atlanta that year and talking to Matt Ryan and writing about this where this guy was in year nine at that point. I think very similar timeline to what we're talking about with Jack Prescott. And everyone kind of thought we knew what Matthew Stafford was at that point. Or excuse me, we knew what Matt Ryan was at that point and then that season happens. It's like, we have to recontextualize what we think of him and what we know of him. And it kind of feels like that's what's happening with Dak Prescott right now.

Yeah. I mean, that's how the first five weeks of the season went or before that 49ers game, this season, it was like, oh, okay, this is what he is. Just okay, a little BB gun throw. Classic West Coast guy and seeing this aggressiveness and seeing him healthy and creating, it's just, it's even more than I thought. And I'm, I've been a huge fan. Maybe not. A couple of years ago, maybe not, but I've kind of lowered it a little bit from those couple of years ago. So I think maybe it's back to those original feelings because we're seeing it all come together and seeing what the high-end guys do is what is Dax doing right now. All right, we got a lot to get to you. So let's get to you at my attention.

Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. But now you have my attention. Each week, we like to pull out a couple of performances that really reached out and grabbed us over the course of the day. Let's start with the Buffalo Bills who are back in this thing, baby. A 20 to 17 win over the Chiefs, they are now 7 and 6, and very much in the mix in a crowded AFC wildcard race. And it feels like if they do get in, they would be dangerous. How muddle the AFC feels right now with this Chief's team being uneven, the Ravens

have a lot of potential on both sides of the ball, but they're capable of these up and down weeks, whether it be their offense in some games or their defense today against the Rams, who knows what's going on with Jacksonville right now. So if the bills get in, it still feels like everything is wide open enough in the AFC for things to get pretty damn interesting if they make the dance. Yeah. And it goes back to kind of what you usually want to bet on, which is the quarterback. Yeah.

And watching Josh Allen, Emma Holmes, but watching Josh Allen with his arm, legs, and just his mind today was a lot of fun. And it's really cool to see the growth of his game. how this bill's offense feels and how the defense feels too reminds me a little bit of how maybe they didn't like revamp on the fly but how maybe I feel about them maybe the bangles last year and where it's just that I think this defense is not elite or I don't even think it's very good or not even good but I think they can get game planned enough to have good stretches and create plays and do enough of good ball that they can keep this offense in games and then you just

keep that offense and games obviously then last year we talked about burrow but this year what Josh Allen and seeing him like and using how they used them on offense and they're using James Cook. I thought that was great getting a little more explosive plays with James Cook. Not only just like on the ground. Like I mean, how many plays that they have. It's kind of cool to see these six, eight-yarders turning into first downs. It's not just Josh Allen run the ball, but of course the touchdown. I thought Romo actually did a good job of highlighting a couple of plays today.

Like he, after that first touchdown James Cook, he said, this is what the chiefs used to get everybody with. And I was like, yes, that's right. That's the Korean hunt special. That running back team play is the cream hunts against the Patriots in week one play from 2018 or 2019, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So Romo had a couple of good moments where I was like, hey, there you go. You're aware.

But I also thought just like Josh Allen and like his awareness and I've highlighted this before, but just him checking him protections and changing plays, again, I thought he was fantastic. And again, it was cool. Remember we've talked about this game with Dak Prescott. I would say that Vikings game against Mike Zimmer, you and I talked about it a few years. years ago and we're kind of really cool the chess match on third down. Josh Allen against Spags was actually like a low key one that I actually kind of didn't think about as like a little bit of chess match. But changing protections just told another guy that's totally in control of the game. So like he's changing protections, creating an explosive plays to James Cook against a blitz and changing it to slide into the right. And two plays later, he's carrying like five guys into the end zone. That's right. That entire drive. So earlier in that drive, McDuffie comes unblocked on a pressure. Now in snaps his ankles in the backfield. He should have gotten dumped for a sack.

Somehow gets a wait of him. Then, a couple plays later, what you're talking about, he slides the protection. And then he says something to James Cook, where I think he tells him to run that wheel up the left side line. He says wheeled out. Yeah. So, and he hit, it's a beautiful throw. They did a really good job in this game of taking advantage of the chiefs linebackers

in coverage. And it was the same sort of stuff we saw with the Packers last week, where a lot of motion was giving them trouble, just movement before the. snap and emptying out the middle of the field and they were attacking them consistently. So that happens. On third and seven, he scrambles to set up a fourth and one on that drive. On the fourth and one, he's buying time outside of the pocket and waiting and waiting and throws a little sidearm throw around the defensive lineman to Kincaid on fourth and one

and then finishes it off with a seven-yard quarterback draw where he drags six guys into the end zone. Yeah. That was one drive. One single drive in this game. it's watching him just take over for whole stretches where it's just play after play. It's like that, man, there's moments. He had these moments last year.

I remember the Vikings game was one. But I thought they had a great game plan stuff with messing with Willie Gay, the whole game. That protection one we're talking about. But any time that he came on a blitz or he lined up as like an edge player as like an outside linebacker on the ball, they love kind of, the chiefs love using them that way. And it felt like any time they were trying to do that, bills had a check or had a play for it or had some adjustment. So that was kind of curious. I was like, oh, you guys, you guys were on it. They had like a run play where Mitch Bors captured them. I thought they did a fantastic job. I will say the clock management, uh, right outside the two

minute warning at the end of the game. Holy crap. Drop bubble by Stefan Diggs, incomplete to Diggs, and then almost sacked desperate heaped to Kincaid. It's like, give him, you guys see him and get it to the two minute. But no, but I did think that they had some really nice moments, uh, this bill's office and say it, but that's just every, watching Josh Allen down in, down out, doing the mental stuff and then doing the freaky stuff, it's just, it's awesome. We know about him and we know what he can do.

Again, it's the layers that maybe you can't count on all the time. And you mentioned James Cook, you had the two huge plays in the passing game, but what they could do in the run game in stretches today was really important. That drive in the third quarter, where they're running a lot of that 11 personnel tackle pole stuff, and then the Mitch Morse play that you mentioned, They had two tackle pull plays and Mitch Moore's pulling on a play out of 11 personnel and some of those more spread out sets. And we're getting chunks consistently on all those plays.

Then that same drive, they had a screen to Shakir and just ball control. Again, it's just the type of kind of calm down, take a deep breath. Let's have our finger on the pulse of the way we want to play this game sort of offense that we like to see from the bills. And they came out, scored a kick to field goal on that drive, went up 1714. So it's a nice combination of Josh Allen playing hero ball and then some buttons that they're pressing to give them consistent offense in some of these areas. And it was cool. And this is the element that James Cook adds. And this is kind of always the lost element of having an explosive receiving running back is checkdowns, especially play action checkdowns.

And so many times today, that's just isolating James Cook on a chiefs linebacker. You mentioned that the chiefs linebackers had a rough day. But it was, yeah, play action, James Cook, get them one-on-one, just a burst route running away and just getting them in space. And I think that's always something. Those are the hidden yards that those explosive types of receivers or explosive types of running backs can create. So it was just, again, those are just simple things, but there's several times Allen didn't really look like he was even reading down the field. He kind of was. But it was like in the back of mind, he was going, oh, I love this matchup. So again, that's what the NFL is, it's matchups.

picking that and picking that, picking that. That's what Kyle Shanhan does. He just finds 20 different ways to do it. But when you see a quarterback starting to do that, it's, that's when you know that's a new level, because they're aware. They're going like, ooh, this is working. Okay, I'm going to go to it three, four, five more times. We didn't mention the insane play to Latavius and we're on the left sideline. Oh my God. It didn't lead to any points, but one of the craziest plays of the year. Next-in stat has a great stat about it. Like he has five throws within a yard of the sidelines. no one else has more than one that just this year. I still am not sure it was complete.

I think he was bobbling it most of the time. He never had control. He never had control of it. That is one of those plays, though, real cool. You have to decide. If anything is on the line there, if there's any sort of closeness, you got to put it over. That should count based on how cool it was. Ty goes to the coolness.

When he was like working out of bounds, it was funny because from, you know, the sideline view, you're kind of like, oh, he's probably out of bounds, right? Romo thought the same thing. Everybody thought the same thing. And then they showed a replay. He's like, no, he got that off. He got that off clean. That's not even close.

He easily got that off. But that play was also my like favorite call ever from Romo. Jim, that was seven things. That was my, I'm so glad you brought this up. What do you think the seven things are? Okay. So Alan getting out of the pocket. Okay.

Out one's throw two. Okay. Matavia is catching it. So I guess that's three. Then fumbling. So I guess catching fumbles three. The first bop over is probably four. And then we got about three more bops probably.

So yeah, so that's the five, six, seven. Romo was, Romo had a special game today. It was a special outing from Tony Romo today. Jim, Jim, that's seven things. I really wanted to ask you what the seven things were.

Jim, that was seven things. Oh my God. I couldn't stop laughing because I kept replaying it. It's great because you know, you could do YouTube TV on like here on my laptop. So I kept replaying it because I wanted to see what the hell happened. And that just kept playing over and over.

Jim, that was seven things. And I was just dying, laughing by myself, just like a lunatic. Really encouraging day from the bills gets them back in the conversation. Still, we're two, three plays away from them losing this game, including a play that should have been the game winning touchdown or potentially could have been the game winning touchdown if Cadarius Tony didn't line up a full yard offside. I understand Patrick Mahomes being frustrated. after the game complaining about it. He was a yard offside. It's totally fine for them to call that in the moment.

And I thought Terry McCauley, during the halftime show of the Eagles Cowboys game, had an interesting observation when he said, yes, that has not been a play or a penalty that's been called consistently over the last couple years. It's been called 11 times this year. So they have been looking for it more often. So it's been more of a point of emphasis. He was a full yard offside. I have no problem with them calling that penalty in that moment,

even if it's a really exciting play, even if it's a game swinging play. No, I understand it. I think the thing for me is like they didn't get the warning, which I can understand the frustration. It's still the penalty. They don't have to give the warning. It's usually typically when the guy, also like Tony should not be like free because it's just like a borderline call. It's not even a borderline call. He was off sides.

Egregious, I think is the word that it was being used. I think when they're asking a reporter, when they did the pool report afterwards, I want to say the refs said that if it's egregious where it's totally clear that he's off sides, we are not. Alphlegated to give them a warning. Exactly. He was off the offsides. Yeah, like, I'm not even debating that. I think it was the operation to it. And then the Von Miller bumping off on the next play, I think it was just, Mahob's just had it. Plus, he was probably just freaking frustrated at the entire game. Oh, I mean, you could just tell. That's the first, I mean, him, Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, they've all had some heated moments this year, even more than usually see. Like, a lot of, like, young receivers really making these quarterbacks frustrated. But he had one where, it was. It. It ended up being incomplete to Rishi Rice. I think he actually, Rice got the touchdown later on the drive. It's in the red zone. But they do a motion and there's like a bunch formation, you know, three guys there. And he just screams at him to like flip because one of the guys was on the ball and one should have been off.

And he throws it and you could just see him going like, like kind of like woo saw. Like just like do not scream at these guys right now. But you can tell he was just like he's done. Like he is so ticked off like play and play out. So I think all that sequence at the end was just him. Like, I'm channeling this towards the ref because I want to yell all my teammates right now. All of that being said, I actually was more encouraged by the way the Chiefs offense played today than I've been by them in weeks.

I'm so glad you said that, dude. They moved the ball so much more consistently than they have in a lot of games this year. They ran the ball efficiently. There was a drive where they had the two screens. There was one to Rice, one to CEH. Both of them went for chunk gains. It was still a lot of it's smoking mirrors. When they're pushing the ball past the sticks, it's really Kelsey.

and not much else, minus, I think, two rice catches in this game. You had the one back shoulder late in the game. It was like, there's SMU rice. There's,

and so he's starting to come on. We're starting to see flashes with him. For the most part, anything down the field is still an adventure to everyone else, but I still felt like the recipe we saw from them. They had a 47% success rate today. They were one of the most efficient offenses

down in and down out of any team in the league today. What really did them in is some bad moments. there was the MVS was wide open or excuse me Tony dropped the one on a second and 12 where he was wide open should have caught it next place third and 12 MVS is open he doesn't sit down Mahomes throws it a little bit wide so that they have to punts I believe is how that ended so there were just moments like that but consistently down and down out they moved the ball they had 21 first downs in this game they ran the ball well what really crushed them is they had two fluky turnovers the a j epinessa pick to start the game and then the rice fumble at the end of the third quarter. If he doesn't that fumble that ball, there's a very good chance the Chiefs win the game. So even if this loss has a lot of frustrating moments built into it, I still feel like we saw some flashes from the Chiefs offense today that should actually make you feel better about the Chiefs moving forward despite the end result. I'm right there with you. And it's one of those things from like, the drops can't keep up. Can they? Like that's kind of like some of my thinking,

yes, I think they're going to have more drops than the other most teams. But it's also, it's like, this is getting kind of ridiculous guys. But no, I, I'm. I'm glad actually you said that. I thought I was going to have to, like, plant my heels in here and just go like, no, actually, they were kind of moving the ball and doing what they wanted. He had 53% success rate throwing the ball. Here's my question about this and here's my concern about this. I'm more worried that that's a commentary on the Bill's defense than it is about the state

of the chief's offense. What you said earlier about, hey, they get the right game plan, they'll be fine. I'm still concerned about what this Bill's defense looks like down in and down out. I think the Bill's defense, after we reviewed it kind of like, how they play the Eagles, that's how I feel about them. They're good. They're kind of like they have to keep it closer, at least get to a nice game script, or game flow after the first 15 plays. Like, they're like an opening script offensive team, but just for defense. Like, that's how it feels. Like, they run out of juice. The Chiefs got them as well. Remember I was saying that the Eagles

started going tempo, even outside of two minutes, and it kind of like made them really basic. And that's how you get them. The Chiefs, the Chiefs barely go tempo. It's kind of a weird thing. Andy Reid's not as aggressive, this, you know, just wizard, you know, kind of just doing all these, you know, Mickey Mouse stuff, really. That's kind of jokingly. That's how it used to be called. Barely goes tempo. And they went tempo today outside the two-minute warning in the first half with 335 left.

And there was a five-yard gain, nine-year-d gain, 12-yard gain, 70-yard gain to McKinnon that got called back on a holding. And then the two-minute warning happened. But I thought that was interesting because, again, I think what it does is makes the bills no smoking mirrors. You just said like the chief's offense kind of this, but that's kind of how the bill's defense is. So you want to catch them.

So it's just a lot of snap with the ball quick. Don't let them be smart. Make them go quick and be dumb. That's what you have to do to this bill's defense right now. Because if they're simple, they don't have the horses. We've had this conversation. And I think that you notice that. So I still have my concerns about them.

If the bills get in, the potential of the Josh Allen supernova makes them dangerous. It makes them intriguing. But the defense still gives me pause about what the actual ceiling would be if they managed to get in. But now the top of the AFC hierarchy is just a mess. The Chiefs are now 8 and 5. The Broncos are one game back in the AFC West, and the Chiefs are now two games back of the one seat.

So this is a huge win for the Ravens and potentially the Dolphins. The Dolphins have a tough schedule down the stretch. They have a couple games that are going to be real tests for them, but now those two teams are going to be battling out for the one seat in the AFC. So they'll take it. And the bills will as well, because now they're very much back in this conversation. And the chief schedule is what? it's a header in down here.

Oh, it's at Patriots, home raiders, home bagels, at Chargers. So it's kind of, you know, they could be. Absolutely went out. But they're not two games back, so they're going to need some help. Yeah, but entering the playoffs. But Holmes has never played a road playoff game. I know. I'm actually very interested in.

He's never played a road playoff game. So this is new territory for the Chiefs potentially. I know that they've not, they haven't been the one seat every single year. They've had some wins, losses that have allowed them to continue playing at home. But I still think that we could potentially see Mahomes on the road. for the first time. And that speaks to how different this chief's team feels compared to others that we've seen over the years.

But if they go 12 and 5 and have like a top six offense and a top 10 defense, don't you feel pretty good about them with Patrick Mahomes? I feel pretty good about them in this version of the AFC. Because no one else really scares me, that's why I feel pretty good about them. But it's more about the competition that it is about the state of the chiefs right now, because the offense still terrifies me. I understand that because they have Mahomes, they get the benefits. of the doubt, and I do think they move the ball consistently today, but there's still just

something missing. There's still just something missing. If there wasn't, if there wasn't another team, if there was another team in the AFC, I was like, that's the best team. Like, that is absolutely the class. If the Niners were in the NFC or in the AFC, that would leave me worried about the Chiefs, but because everyone else feels so incomplete, that's why I have some optimism about what they could do. Yeah. I wasn't talking about 2024 Chiefs. Yeah. So, yeah, No, I think the same. I think I feel very good about them, actually. It's just, they are just a very frustrating team. There is a lot of very frustrating teams right now. It's, it's something that just a league-wide trend. It happens with quarterback injuries, but sometimes it just happens. Let's get to one of those other semi-frustrating teams in the AFC, but they were not that frustrating today. The Ravens played a phenomenally fun football game against the Rams. That was one of the more enjoyable games of the year. Watching Stafford and Lamar go back and forth and we knew it. I remember this one. If you go back and, and you listen to our Thursday preview, I think we were more excited for this game than we've been about most games over the last month or so, even if this wasn't necessarily the marquee game in terms of team records and playoff standings, everything else. But the matchup had a ton of potential for fireworks when you consider what the Rams' offenses looked like recently, what the Ravens' defenses looked like recently. And it gave us everything we could have wanted out of that one. Yeah, the scoring plays were fun, which is always the best.

It's not just a bunch of like one-yard plunges where I'm just like, all right, I got to find some first down or like 12-yard gain. That was pretty cool. So it was both sides brought it. I thought the Rams and both played two type, which was nice. After hyping up the Rams run game and for weeks doing a whole 20-minute video, making producer Kent slave away for a whole day, try to cut down like a 40 minute director's cut down to 20 minutes and piping up the run game

and all this stuff and then watching that first drive I was like yeah there it is that's exactly what the Rams I've been doing to people all year and then watching Stafford and Lamar just go at it and just haymakers one after another and also Lamar this was the most Lamar scrambled since 2019 I believe he had eight scramble eight scrambles today tied for second most he's ever scrambled in the game. And he was phenomenal on those scrambles. 11 yards first down, six yards first down, 11 yards first down, five yards and first and 10, 16 yards first down. Five yards, five yards, nine yards. He was just in control and then watching the Rams offense, they were in control. I thought this was two good teams going at it. I think Ravens are obviously

very classy or way at the top. But I think this Rams team can hang with a lot of other teams and with their conference and how the NFC looks, how this performance was made me feel just so much better about them as a whole, just not just the offense, but the defense as well. Yeah. I think the defense gave up a lot of big plays in this game, big plays in huge moments. They drop Isaiah likely for that huge touchdown. I don't even think it was double move to Joe. Oh, no, back up, but the Jordan four against B for that long touchdown.

They had a couple lapses, but we assume that, right? This isn't a talent-filled unit. There's not going to be locked down every single play, not going to be locked down every single drive. So those things are going to happen. I think they made it hard on the Ravens for really the last two quarters down in and down out. And the Ravens just made a ton of plays. I mean, what Lamar did in the pocket beyond what he did as a scrambler feeling in control,

his just pocket presence and navigation. Yes. It just his how control and calm, how in control and calm he looks in the pocket and making plays from the pocket this year, it's the best he's ever looked in that capacity. You know, the passing numbers are obviously going to be better. during the 2019 season, but the style of offense is just completely different. What was being asked of him is completely different. What he is doing down in and down out as a pocket passer is marvelous.

And you combine that with the receiving talent that they have now. And that's showing up consistently. I mean, Beckham has to turn around for that ball down the left sideline. He makes a great play on. Zay Flowers made multiple big third down catches in this game. The fact that Zay Flowers can be this, I don't know how tall he is, five, nine kind of gadgety guy, but on a third and five, he can, line up as the X and run a comeback outside the numbers and you feel comfortable.

They've three exes. Really? They're a smaller. It's really nice. It's really nice. And so that level of just receiving talent that's consistent across the entire offense, you can consistently and continually feel it this year. But today specifically, I thought that it popped up in a lot of different areas.

And then the Rams offense, Stafford just has made four to five insane throws seemingly every single game this year, and today was no different. The touchdown to Cooper Cup on the first one, there's an unblocked nickel blitz coming off the left side. He just kind of floats it sidearm into the back corner of the end zone for a touchdown. He hits Cup on a third down against another blitz in the second half, where it's coming off the right side and he just kind of floats a corner out to cup for like a 20-yard gain. The floater on the crosser to Nakua to set up the game-tying field goal is an

absolutely insane throw and catch. That was one of the best plays of the year. And then in the rain. In the rain. All of us is in the rain. These guys were doing this in the rain. That's another thing that kind of got underappreciated. And then the floater to cup down the left sideline to set up the game tying field goal with like a minute left in the game was a crazy play.

And Cooper Cup doing all of this as banged up as Cooper Cup is right now is also extremely impressive. So this game to me announces two things. One, the Ravens are a really good team. Even during a game where their defense wasn't on it like the way they typically are because they played against one of the most finely tuned offenses in football, their offense can still go haymaker for haymaker against one of these teams. So I think the Ravens are everything that they are touted to be. I'm very excited to see what this version of Baltimore's team can do in the playoffs and what it means for Lamar. On the flip side, I want to see the Rams get in. They're now six and seven.

They're the eight seed in the NFC. But I want to see this version of a Rams team with a puncher. chance in the NFC playoffs against some of these teams because when they're clicking and when that offense is humming, they are as fun as exciting as anybody in the league. And I think today was a real statement about that. I figured out the best way to block Aaron Donald draft Lamar Jackson. That's the best way to block Aaron Donald. You should let everybody know. Yeah, yeah, that's how you do it. But watching, you're talking about the pocket manipulation with Lamar. I agree with you about the Rams comment. That was a very fun conversation that we had about the NFCHA.

I have to see wildcard teams, but just really when you break down the Rams and just what they do on offense, it's just so great. But what Lamar is doing, the Zay Flowers TD, this is just tying in what you're talking about the receivers. That play is just three in breakers, really. It's an over and a dig and a dig or over and over in a dig. It's 666, which is great in North Turner Parliance, which I think is awesome. Yeah, so it's the play of the beast. But on that one is the, the, the, the. knows he has to get let zay flowers cross uh jordan fuller the safety's face and you have to buy time to do that

and that's what some of this is what watching stafford you brought up the cooper cup rainbow touchdown and the lamar on like this dig touchdown or this zay flowers touchdown i should say is that's what you know controlling and understanding what you have to do in the pocket it's i have to hang an extra half second to let this win so i could throw it because that was a second maybe almost third window throw but lamar knew he he was going there. So that's 16, I believe. Yeah, he had to. Like, he's pushing, they were designed, they were getting, they were pushing past the sticks. They're saying we're going to score here. We're going to kick this field goal with Justin Tucker. And so he's pushing it on that. And I thought that was just so cool to see him manipulate with Aaron Donald coming down on

the game. But again, they just are controlling it. And then another one is, remember we're talking about Jordan Love and I was kind of gushing about like the double footwork, you know, the combo dropback footwork. So the Ravens ran a similar play where it has a quick game concept, which was stick on this case, and a deeper dropback concept, a five-step play as well. And this was the one to Rushab Abit in a two-minute drill, but it's so funny how this is another great example of, if quarterbacks make it their own. You watch Jordan Love do it, and he tries to do it with this kind of quasi-errin Rogers-ish footwork, but he's kind of doing in his own way where everything's trick-shoddy. Lamar does it in his own way where his feet are just pattering,

where they just typewriter. So it's not what I would teach. You know, if I were teaching a high school quarterback to do it. I wouldn't really teach any high school quarterback to do this footwork. But anyways, but when Lamar does it, he does it in his own way, but it still works. Because even if it's not like, it's always just how Lamar does, I think he always gets knocked for that. And I've talked about this before where everyone's like, oh, his dropback stuff. Everything's out on time. And he's great from the pocket. That's what's so cool that they're doing this split footwork with him now. Like, that is such an evolution from the all hitches passing game that he was like, did for the last three, four years where everybody's just

running a hitch. Now they're doing double footwork passing concepts. I think that's just so awesome. It shows the growth of him and this offense and this, like, what they're doing this here. Absolutely. And whatever happens by the end of this season, let's say they fall short this year. This version of the offense moving forward is just something that you can consistently rely on. The idea that he is this sort of pocket passer, say, Flowers is going to be there. A lot of these guys in the offensive line are going to be there. Todd Monkin is probably going to be there. So this is something that you can hopefully build on moving forward. And it's just very, very, cool to see him emerge as this, I don't know if it's new, but just this more refined version of

himself in these specific areas. It's what he's shown flashes of in college and as a pro, but not as extended. This is a longer version of it. Yeah, this is that, that's what this kind of feels like. But two design things too, I loved real quick, one from each team. I just had to get these off is they had a, Ravens had a long run play where they used Gus Edwards, basically at fullback. But I think it's so cool.

they did 21 pony like 21 because you're using Gus Edwards, who's technically a tailback and Keaton Mitchell, but they're using it like a lead eye play with Patrick Ricard. So I really liked that. It was like a fun little twist to use that little pony personnel to do that. And then on the other side was the Rams did a fantastic bootleg after they motioned Cooper Cup about 40 times in the first quarter. Then they ran a bootleg where he just ran into the flat and you kind of catch it and ran up the right sideline. It's just like, again, it's just like, oh, I just love the designs. And also shout out to our old friend Troy Reader.

He got highlighted quite a few times today going against this Ravens offense. All right. Let's get to the other side of the coin here and some stuff that was a little bit disappointing today. Cool, man. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. Detroit Lions get worked over by the Bears 28 to 13. They now fall to the three.

They are the three seed in the NFC. They fall to nine and four. And it seems like they are losing pace with those elite teams in the NFC that we talked about earlier in the show, whether it be the Cowboys, the Niners and even the Eagles. It's been a troubling trend for Detroit over the last three or four weeks. And today is the game they lost to the Bears. They could have lost the one they played a couple weeks ago. But again, this is a continuation of the slide that we have seen from the Lions here over the last month or so. Yeah, mostly the defense is.

The defense has the stuff that we were maybe worried about that was kind of getting, they had answers for it in the first half, or at least we're playing above their weight, punching above their weight, kind of has been rearing its ugly head. And Justin Fields is a terrible matchup for them. Yes. Because the QB run game stuff, it seems to be giving them lots of issues. But their bottom 10 and all the yards, all the stats that we like to tout on the show, you know, success rate, explosive play rate, EPA per play, yards per play. Bottom 10 at all of those. The game act, week seven, they played the Ravens. So since week eight, their bottom 10 and all those stats. So since they kind of got exposed a little bit on film. And that's what all happened in the NFL. Once you get put on tape, sometimes teams will attack it. I think that it is an issue.

And I'm trying to figure out what their answers are. Alie McNeil is now an I are. Like that was a guy that broke out for them in the front. Their linebackers seemed to be giving them issues week and week out. And I just kind of, it's kind of straining them right now. I think the offense still can find answers when golf will have his moment. but he also has moments where he's ripping those inbreakers and they can still design it the best one today man that was insane it was the fourth down yeah yeah it was it was the fourth down

dig that he threw that was just he had no business even letting that thing go and it was complete and it was a ridiculous throw but those moments were few and far between for them on offense today and the defense here's what's worrying about the defense it just feels like they've settled into the 2022 lion's defense whether that be schematically personnel that's I know they've changed the way they play in terms of the structure of the defense, but just how static it feels reminds me of what they looked like a lot last year. And now the personnel was just pretty much the same. You know, Jerry Jacobs is back as an outside corner. Jerry Jacobs was a nice story early in this lion's trajectory, but there's a reason that they went out and tried to improve at corner this year.

He got burned on that huge fourth and 13 play that ultimately swung the game, but they picked on him a couple times in this game. Mel Phon was now back at safety because Tracy Walker wasn't playing well enough. So now these characters that feel like season two Lions characters that we thought had been replaced by more big name, higher paid actors. These guys are back. And that's true in the secondary. And then at linebacker, they're just consistently having issues and consistently getting picked on. You can see the moment where Jack Campbell's brain explodes on the DJ Moore rushing touchdown. When DJ Moore motion and motion took the snap, they have Justin Fields coming back in motion around him.

So I think that the fake is we're going to pitch it back to him. He's going to throw it. Jack Campbell just never moves. On the entire play, he just never moves. You could see his brain explode as DJ Moore runs for that touchdown. And there were plenty of those. Ancelone got picked on a few different times today. Campbell got picked on a few different times today.

And the secondary and their front four, there just isn't as much juice as you want it to be. and there isn't as much juice as there are from some of these other really good teams that we're talking about in the NFC. You can feel the gap between their defensive personnel and the really good teams in the league. And I thought that might have been a possibility coming into the year. They played really well for the first half of the season, but they have settled back into that sort of group now. Yeah. And then they'll just have some moments of slot. Like Hutchinson is a nice pass stretch, especially from the inside.

But he's not really getting any help. And so when he even or he might have a botch, the Justin Fields touchdown, they're running a game. And I think he admitted this after the game that he kind of went rogue on it. And but the thing is, they don't have the talent right now to overcome that. You see the Cowboys do this all the time. They will let a guy break contained because they run all this chaotic stuff, the 49ers as well. But then you watch those guys recover and then you understand why they can do that because then they can close that speed and make it force it a throw away. But again, Fields is just a racing angles because of how fast he can run.

but that's that's a thing you're going to be if you want to play against the big boys they're going to do that against you they'll attack that but also i want to give props to the bear's defense because i was about to baby oh boy uh uh i don't know if i want to go stator scheme here but i'll go scheme here real quick their third down stuff was really good uh from a couple a couple plays how they played bunch sets which is how they it was beautiful to watch they had different plans for it was beautiful to watch yeah there were there were two of them we could talk about them there were two of them that jumped out to me. There was a third and ten on the opening drive. When golf got sacked, right? When golf got sacked. So that gets home. They passed it off beautifully.

And Kyler Gordon, and as the nickel, you need to be a good communicator. And his kind of, him being a fulcrum to the defensive communication just in this game and overall was huge. And then they had a third and 11 in the third quarter. Again, same sort of deal. Just beautiful communication. They passed it off. There was a motion attached to it. So their ability to deal with those sorts looks on third down in this game and just how adept and quickly they're communicating through that stuff and passing it off is so cool to see. It's a secondary that's growing up together. And that's very encouraging. Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because the communication there, the first example of third and ten where golf gets sack because it ends up being a coverage

sack essentially because golf is pretty good at finding that first answer. And the play gets longer is when you get worried about golf. You want that ball out in two and a half seconds. Otherwise, it's an issue. On that, Kyra Gordon gives a top hat signal. Kleefe Raymond comes in motion there. And this is what the line spamped. This is what Ben Johnson and the staff is really good at. They create all these leverage advantages. This is how Amon Ross St. Brown eats. It's creating all these leverage advantages. He catches it. It gets that 14-yard gain. It's so frustrating. So they do that motion. And what Top Hat is is it tells Kyra Gordon was pressed with the other receiver. and what Top Hat tells is that now he has the off ball receiver when they create a stack.

And the off ball corner has the guy that was the point man, the on ball receiver. And he catches Raymond basically because Raymond now is motioning into him. They weren't expecting that. And you can see Goff going, ah, shoot. But yeah, I'm glad you brought up that example in the later example because they changed their method on the second one. They zoned it off on the same exact motion. And the Lions ran a play to try and take advantage of the Top Hat because they were expecting the top bat and the bears went, uh-uh, and they changed what they did. So it was like,

again, I love always saying this, but it was a I know what you know what I know what you know moment right there. It was great. So shout out, yeah, shout out to the bear's defense. They've been playing really well since the Montez sweat trade. There's seventh of defense's success rate in the NFL. Their top 10, ninth in the EPA per play, eighth in yards per play, sixth and QB hits, second explosive play rate. It's, they've played some really good ball. The DBS are playing really well. The linebackers are playing well. And the front's starting to kind of get home and do some stuff. It's been fun to watch as a neutral fan, Robert. Shout out to your bears. It's been fun to watch for me as well because they, that's what they needed. They bet on all this

youth, especially in the secondary. Think about what they've done in the draft over the last couple of years. They've spent a lot of especially their second round picks on defense. They draft Jaquan Brisker, Kyloor Gordon, Tyreek Stevenson. So they have so many of these young pieces and I really want to see progress from the young pieces on defense this year. Whatever happened with Justin Fields and the offense was obviously the biggest question, but can you start seeing some results from these guys that you spent significant draft capital on? And that's starting to happen.

And that's really, really exciting for the future. And you combine that with what they have up front now. And I understand, sweat looks awesome, right? That was always going to happen. He's a really good player. This is a long game thing. they gave up potential top 40 pick and they paid him. He needs to pay like a star, play like a star to make good on that price.

He's playing like that, which is awesome. The early returns on it are great. You're seeing some flashes from the younger defensive linemen. Zach Pickens had a couple nice moments today. The linebackers are starting to play well. So this defense moving forward, I think, has a really nice core of talent and they're being deployed in the right way. There are going to be questions coming out of this about what happens with Iberfus

if they keep playing like this. Does he get another year? I'm going to press pause on all of that until we just get to week 18 because there's no sense in trying to answer those questions right now. But what they're doing and the steps that they're taking are extremely exciting. And what they did today is me, the biggest thing. First of all, the Lions had a 29% offensive success rate today, which is very, very low. Just for context, it's very low. And this is a good offense that they did this too.

What they did while blitzing today, Jared Golf was four of eight for 13 yards. The Lions had five total passing yards on those nine dropbacks with the Bears blitzed. And so that has been somewhat of an issue. The Lions are an average team this year when teams blitz them. So just something to keep in mind. Golf pressure has always been kind of a little thorn in his side. If we're trying to figure out where the kind of chips, where the cracks are with this Lions team. I think if you could heat him up with some extra pass rushers, that's one of them.

And then the defense. So this is just a reminder today that if that offense can't keep pace, they're going to struggle because the defense is not going to be able to stop people consistently right now as currently constructed. So it really does feel like this Lions team while exciting, while very good in stretches, there's a ton to build on. They might not be there quite yet for the reasons that we just said. I know, which kind of stinks because they were feeling so fun that for six-ish weeks of the season. I also want to say that I finally figured out who Justin Fields falls like.

And of course, it's a, it's a wrestler. It's Jeff Hardy. He, he, like, he, I think I fall so, so violently. Every fall looks like he just, his body exploded. But I, I did think Fields had another positive performance. Like, just the negative plays are getting smaller. It was like 12 of them. Now it's like, you know, three.

And, but all those positive plays, the rushing touchdowns, all those scrambles, all those things, the creative throws. It's like, okay, this is really cool to see. He's going to be a fascinating character. to watch in the NFL the next couple months. It's going to be very interesting what happens the next couple months. I still, if you were just to palm me full of truth serum and ask me, what do I want to see happen and what do I think is the best path forward?

Even with the defense showing these sorts of flashes, if I could hire an offensive-minded head coach and just demote Matt Iberflus to defensive coordinator, that'd be awesome. Unfortunately, that's not how this works. I still feel like pairing a coach that is on a warm. seat, which Matt Eberflus would be after this year, no matter what happens, with a quarterback that you draft in the first round, is a dangerous plan. The bears have done it too many times. It creates unnecessary misalignment, and it would worry me. So I still feel like the easiest path forward is probably drafting a quarterback with the first overall pick and hiring

an offensive-minded staff to shepherd that quarterback and the new version of your offense moving forward. But what Matt Eberflus and the defense are doing and what Justin Fields and the offense are doing are throwing some wrenches into that, even if I do at my core think that is probably the way forward. I think it's win-win. Yeah, I think that's exactly. What's happening right now is this most

it's crazy. I can't get over it. Like I very much enjoying watching it because it's very, it feels very real more than like just like a fluky turnover luck. It definitely does. It definitely does. They have a couple turnovers today. But it definitely doesn't.

It feels. It absolutely feels real down to down to down. I started watching after the Sweat Trade because I was like, I just want to see all this looks. And then after that, the Saints game onwards, I was like, oh, my God, they're kicking people's asses. They're just dominating up front. Like, all those young guys, you mentioned. That one Lions game was really the worst game that they had. Other than that, they've played pretty damn well since making that deal.

And the secondary getting healthy is a huge part of this. You know, the sweat trade coincides with the back seven guys being the ones that we thought were going to be on the field coming into the season. So I'll ask you. Because I'll make you answer this question, even if I have to wait until a week 18. If this continues, if the defense continues to play at a top five to seven level, would you bring Iber Fus back? I would. So I really like the defense. I think he's learned some lessons with some of the game management stuff. Sometimes you have to take ones when you guys are losers and not being good and to have some of those negative chops. So when it actually comes a big moment, so you can have some positive moments.

I think what Getsy does on offense makes me encouraged of whatever quarterback is. their solution. So I'm fine with I, I'm fine with Ivor Fu's coming back because he's supposed to be a defensive guy and the defense is playing well. If this defense was sloppy and it was just an offense first thing. And it seems like they righted the ship after some off field, off field stuff that happened in the first six weeks. And it just like, it feels so much more calm. The whole team feels so much more collected just as a unit. So it makes me feel easier to say that right now.

I don't disagree with you. And I think that, I think it there's, I'm with you. I think the way the defense looks and how put together the defense looks and how confident they look. It's hard not to want to buy into that, but at the same time, it worries me. The history and what's happened from the last couple staffs just worries me, where you lose that rookie year with the guy that you draft first overall, and then what? You're left to picking up the pieces again, and I just really want to avoid that, but he's making a really strong case based on how the defense is played. So I think that you'll at least have to hear it out, but it's going to be a fascinating

set of decisions that this team is going to have to make down the stretch. All right. Next one here. The Houston Texans, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. I'm so excited about this team, asserting themselves in the AFC wildcard race. It's like, oh, man, the Texans are going to be such a fun entry into the playoffs. Can't wait to watch them on Wild Card weekend.

Then they go and get stomped by the Jets in this game. What is happening? We had to make sure. That's why on that Thursday show was like, we have to shout out the Jets defense. because no matter what's been going on the other side of the ball, these guys are still kicking ass. And they did. They kicked a lot of ass today. And actually,

Zach Wilson actually looked fairly okay. He actually, like, threw with some confidence at times today, which is kind of- I was very impressed. I wasn't sure if this was going to be one of those games where you go back and watch it. It's like, this is all shit.

Exactly. It really wasn't. It felt way more real. He actually made a few plays that should have been made. He had the third down completion of Garrett Wilson rolling out of the pocket. The Garrett-Wilson target. were like, oh, your point, throwing that with like some like real, like confidence. Because the ball's getting out early.

Yeah. That was the most disappointing part of the game for Houston. It's not that their offense didn't play well against the Jets defense. That can happen, especially when you're down your two most explosive pass catchers. He had nowhere to go with the ball in this game. Nope. They had nobody that could win against man coverage against that Jets secondary. And I think some of the pressure looks were fucking with them a little bit.

I think they didn't exactly know where they were supposed to go. the first sack of the game, they do a full slide to the left. The running back doesn't go out and block the defensive end, Bryce Huff gets home for a sack. And there's a lot of that. They were mugged up, and I think that they were had trouble sorting through some of that stuff at the line of scrimmage combined with guys not getting open. That version of this game, I could predict. I could see that happening in the rain against this Jets defense.

I could not see Zach Wilson doing what he did in this game. Zach Wilson went 27 to 36 for 300 yards. 8.4 yards per attempt. In the second half of this game, the Jets had a 61.5% passing success rate. That is the best second half passing success rate the New York Jets have had in three years in a half where they've had at least 10 dropbacks.

That is how good the Jets passing game was today against this Texan defense. That was the shocking part. That is the part that I did not expect and the part that leaves me very disappointed. They were attacking them. Like they were launching stuff. No, it was deliberate.

Like you said, it didn't feel fluky. I feel like when I reviewed this game, if I reviewed this game, when I watch at All-22, it will be one of those where it's like, no, it's probably good game playing. And like you said, it was, yeah, he had some throws where it was like those trick-shot throws actually had a purpose. Like Wilson has that tendency to, you know, drop the hip, like a lot of younger quarterbacks do now because to try to clear the hip so you can get some velocity on stuff. And he sometimes would do it so for no reason whatsoever. If you're like, just step and throw. Like, you don't have to clear the hip on that kind of thing.

throw out and felt like today it was actually with purpose throwing those with purpose he threw with purpose today. That might be the best way. But the Jets blitzes, I'm really curious to see what their numbers are after the game because they are not a blitz, blitz heavy team. And it was planned and had also had purpose today because it really felt like that they saw something on the film. This is something I've seen too.

The Broncos were getting after it last week. But I do think they have some issues sorting out blitzes, especially with the running backs, the Texas offense, I mean. And also you saw Stroud having to get rid of the ball like before you got hurt Super early like throwing the ball like and I think a little bit was that because of the weather I think sometimes when it's it's wet you throw the ball early and easy so that way you don't have to gun it and squeeze hard and the ball can just fly off your hand Which again just shows that even though he had a bad day today Strout is just like advanced beyond his years which is really cool

So he does that but then on top of it's to beat the rush he started just feeling the past rush even when they're bringing four So he's like, screw this. I'm throwing this before Robert Woods is even turning. He's throwing out routes like way earlier than they usually should. But again, it was just like I felt like the Jets knew how to attack this patch protection. And then they just bring it and they bring intensity every week and they just got swallowed. Yeah, that's how it felt where it was just one of those snowball games for the Texans offense. And again, that can happen against a really good defense on the road in the rain without your two top pass catchers.

But the Jets offense playing as well as it did in that rainstorm was pretty shocking. And the main part of the game plan and the main area where I think the Texans really struggled is their linebackers just had no shot on a lot of these plays. A lot of players where they're just trying to take advantage of their inability to sift through some of this stuff. The crosser to cop for the touchdown. There was a big time completion to Garrett Wilson on a crosser that set up another touchdown. A screen and a checkdown to Brees Hall that eventually he leaked out for the touchdown. There were just so many plays in that area of the field where there were. They're really picking on Denzel Paraman, Toot, Toa, Toe, even Blake Cashman a little bit today.

So I think that really stood out in terms of how they went about this. And Toa and Toa and Paraman is like run first as they are. That's a good way to say. It's the right way. It's the right way to do it. They're not good in past coverage. And so it didn't feel like also the Jets dunked on the Texans like three times up the seam, not even just like outside go balls. Like just off the scene. It was twice.

It was twice, right? It was, I think it was Conklin the first time. I want to say he dunked on a linebacker. I can't remember which one, but he also got Jimmy Ward later in the game. Just two back shoulder like Error Rogers-esque seam balls from Zach Wilson where they had dunks. And then Derek, Garrett Wilson had his share in this game as well. Garrett Wilson played phenomenal. He's been playing really well. The flashes that we expect from him, we got a lot of those today. So it was a weird game. It was a very strange game when you consider the week that was for the New York Jets and Zach Wilson. Yep. Yep. That was a good return trip for him. So now, with the Texans losing that game, we have six teams in the AFC that are now seven and six.

The Steelers, the Colts, the Texans, the Broncos, the Bengals, and the Bills are all seven and six right now. If the playoffs started today, the Steelers and the Colts would be in. But it is just going to be an absolute mess for the final month of the season to figure out these spots. Oh, God. How do you handicap it? I was just like that schedules. I really don't know. I really don't know.

I feel better about the Browns because it's just Flacco actually looking competent. Agreed. We'll talk about that in a second. Yeah. But I feel better about the Browns. I feel good about the bills just because of who they have a quarterback, but they still have Dallas and Miami here down the stretch. The Bengals have a pretty winnable schedule.

Excuse me. I'm sorry. I didn't see the Chiefs on there. The Bengals have a couple in the next. couple weeks that they absolutely could win. Oh, pliable, huh? No. But they have the chiefs a little bit later on.

The Broncos have a bunch of games they could potentially win. And that, that, they beat up the Chargers today. This really felt like the death now for the Chargers, by the way. This game, even with Herbert getting hurt, still felt like the low point for the Chargers in the season with full of those low points. Broncos were picking out the corpse today. That's what that game kind of felt like. And the Jets, or excuse me, and the Texans absolutely could,

string together a few more wins. I hope we'll see what happens with Stroud's health. But the Texans absolutely. They get Tennessee. They have Cleveland again against Tennessee and Indianapolis. So they can do a lot of damage. The Bengals are playing really well. I have no idea how to handicap this thing.

I still feel best about the bills just because of Josh Allen. I do think that they're the best team. But the schedule is really tough. So it's hard. I'm sure we'll have plenty more conversations about this. I thought really good about Texas until I watch them today. And then what the hell is that? Exactly.

No, I'm with you on the bills, though. That's kind of like it, because like you said, you're betting on the quarterback. But, yeah, the Broncos getting in there, they're jujitsuing their way to the top. They just, them and the Steelers, man, they just know how to just get funky up these games and just take advantage of it. And they are another team that just kept bringing a blitz today. I kind of watch a little bit of this game because it was on one of the squares. And, yeah, Chargers just had no answers. That was even before Herbert got hurt.

And just how many free runners they're getting, it was like, oh, God. Like, they just had no respect for it, but for that Chargers offense, which was shocking to me. The fourth and inches stop was sad. But then, yeah, and then the Broncos offense just says their big plays. But I can't believe how much life they show. And it's just like, oh, my God, they actually have, like, it's just I can't believe it. I agree with you on the life that they show. I still don't know how I feel about the formula.

Like, the defense down in and down out has still not been great. They act like they have the Browns defense. That's how they play. That's what's so funny. It actually kind of somehow like works for them. And this living on the edge offense where they're requiring like a hero ball play from Cortland Sutton every single week. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe they are actually the most dangerous of all these playoff teams. I still just don't know if I buy it. I don't know if I buy what's happening with them right now. I'll watch too much Broncos already this year. It's just like every game feels the same. Just every game feels tight. every game comes down to three highlight plays, and then, like, who is that sack? And they're like, Sur tan making a play.

And then it's like, oh, they won 1714. That's just how these games feel. And they're somehow in the hunt for the playoffs. That Colts Texans' Week 18 game could be very huge. That's a fun. All right. Let's talk about a few more of these AFC Wildcar teams in the Sunday notebook. Now, let's start with the Bengals because this is not a team I expected to be a part of this

conversation a couple weeks ago. When we sat here on that Thursday night after Joe Burrow got hurt, I expected the Bengals to just be done. And whatever has happened over the last two weeks with Jake Browning and that offense, they are very much in the thick of this thing. They've got some tough games down the stretch. But I'm not going to bet against them based on the way that he is playing and based on the way the offense is playing overall.

I think they've really tapped into some stuff. They had two huge screens today. One to Chase Brown, who has a ton of juice. I'm excited to see what he. He can do with a few more touches. T. Higgins had a ridiculous play down the left sideline. We saw what Jamar Chase did last Monday. And Browning is playing well enough where it's like, I don't know, man, could this

team get in? Should this team get in? Yeah. He's playing well enough where it's like he knows what he's doing. Like this is again, this is another thing where it's not fluky. What he's doing is, hey, get the ball out on time and get it to our playmakers and let him go. I also think he's more comfortable under center, which is kind of helping some

things maybe too. I'm curious the numbers. And the sheer amount of play action that they've used. I mean, the offense feels like there are more easy buttons, more layups. Yeah. Because there need to be. But again, just another slight little pivot from the Bengals and that coaching staff that garners even more respect that I've already had for them.

I can't believe it. I can't believe it, actually. It was just this whole year was like, how are the Bengals going to revamp? And it was like, well, they had to. And here it is. And it works. I mean, Joe Mixing, like, feels like he's going off. I think he got banged up a little bit today.

But, I mean, he's just like how they're using him with Browning. It's like the run game is just like they're attacking people at the run game. It's not just an efficiency thing where they're jabbing, jabbing, jabbing, and then they hit the explosive plays. It's like, no, they're getting the explosive plays through the run game. And honestly, you look at their schedule. I mean, next two weeks, they go Vikings and Steelers. Why not? Why not?

Yeah. I feel totally okay with them, those games. So, yeah, I think this, again, this is not fluky. This, I feel like how I watch them and watch them the last couple of weeks. weeks with Browning. He's a great operator and he's not just game managing where he's actually making some doubles and triples happen when they're available in the offense, but they're available because his coaching staff is doing a good job. Yeah, there's so much more interesting and I'm paying so much more attention to them than I thought would be necessary at this stage, but they deserve it.

The Browns, take care of the Jags. The Browns, to me, the biggest thing about this game is that what they look like with Flacco makes them a potential threat in an AFC playoff game. What he gives the offense and what they can do with him under center. And Sfansky came out after the game and said he was going to be the starter through the end of the year. They're just so much more dangerous with him and then you with that defense. Even with Denzo Ward out today, the way that they're outside corners played against the Jags was insane. Our buddy John Shipley tweeted this out after the game. Lawrence on throws to Calvin Ridley and Zay Jones in this game, nine of 27 for 82 yards and three interceptions.

Oh, man. Martin Emerson had a hell of a game. Yeah, he did. He had won a hell of a game. So you combine that defense in the way that they can play with a puncher's chance that Joe Flacco potentially gives you on offense. And this version of the Browns that we saw today in a potential healthier version when Ward gets back, that's the scariest team that we've seen with Deshaun Watson is not going to be on the field. Yeah, it's no, Flacco's played. Like, he does just enough.

He makes a couple of throws against the ramps. like, oh my God. And it was just, it's like seeing a vintage Model T out there. He's just like, or DeLorean. He's like, oh, look at that thing. Go to 88. I thought the Brown's defense was a great reminder, too, of how they could just control games, obviously with their players,

but like just heads up plays. The last interception of Trevor Lawrence, I think because he had three today, the one on the go-ball, I believe it was to Zay Jones. But on that one was really cool because the Brown show cover zero. Again, I know what you know what I know what you know moment here. Brown show cover zero. Trevor Lawrence does the heads up thing and does, oh, I'm going to do a full slide. I'm going to bring Evan Ingramman, the tight end, bring him part of it. And what they do is they slide that

whole offensive line, wad it up. It gives him time to operate, progress through the play and throw something that's not just a go ball on third and one. And on that play, I thought it was awesome. Brown's linebacker Anthony Walker recognizes that Ingeron's coming down to help out with the protection, they're in cover zero, which is man coverage. So he screams at the safety. He goes, hey, come down. Add, add. And what he's telling him is that, hey, your man coverage on Ingram, he's blocking so you can green dog or add on. So he adds on to the blitz, which heats up Trevor, which makes Trevor throw to go ball, which turns into the interception. So I thought there's moments like that throughout the game where it's like, man, this Browns team is just going to be scary because

they can do enough on offense with Flacco, but the defense is just going to do so much on their end. That's exactly right. And I remember watching them. play with DTR, P.J. Walker, whoever it was in some of those games where the margin for error was so slim because of what they were on offense. The margin for error was so slim. And obviously, Joe Flacco at this stage of his career isn't going to give you the sort of offensive output you need to beat the really good teams in the league when it gets down to the end. But the margin for error on offense with him operating back there is so much bigger than it was for much of this season. And I think, again, that's just why this version of them with him a quarterback is so much

more intriguing to me than most of the things that we've seen from them. The screens and all the bootleg stuff they're doing with DTR and PJ Walker, we're like, hey, they're gum and toothpicks. They're doing all they can. Now they actually could do a dropback game. That's not just day one quick game. That was the joke I kept making that was like day one install for the Browns was what these game plans have been. Now with Flacco, it feels more like, you know, day two and three are installed so that they can get it. I also think they attack the one weakness that's coming up with this Jags defense or one of them, and that's Devin Lloyd. And they, both of, uh, and Joku's touchdowns were because of Devin Lloyd bus.

And it's like, that's a thing now that's happening to this Jax defense. That was also just really discouraging the amount of busted plays and the amount of huge touchdowns that were scored in this game. Two weeks in a row. Yeah. Two weeks in a row, we're just huge busted plays by the defense. And again, it's a Jax team that there were moments during the middle of the year where it's like, okay, what could they do in the AFC?

And now it feels like they've fallen back to earth a little bit, especially on defense. And their offense just doesn't have. have the firepower to overcome those sorts of lapses. They don't. No, they don't. I just think they're too uneasy in the offensive line just is not getting them sustainability. Oh, yeah. Even worse today, I mean, as for Cleveland's at left tackle and then Blake Hans eventually

has to come in, you can't, when you don't have Christian Kirk when you're playing against a really good defense and you're on offensive tackle, left tackle number four, things are not going to go very well. But that's the state of the Jags offense right now. And if they're not going to be able to beat teams on defense, what are they in the AFC playoffs? and I think that that's a legitimate question. A couple more we want to hit here.

The Niners absolutely go off in this game. We don't have to spend a lot of time on this. I just wanted to acknowledge two people from this game. Debo is playing insane right now. I mean, what he's doing with the ball in his hands, but also just down the field. I mean, he has been such a weapon since coming back into the lineup. And it's just such a consistent reminder when he's playing like this,

how much of a different gear he adds to the offense. And you combine that with all of the other ridiculous players that they have. Pick a name. But him doing what he's doing right now and him being this version of himself just takes them to an entirely different level. And what Brock Purdy did today, the plays he made down the field and some of the real big boy throws he made in this game were extremely impressive. And we're trying to figure out how he's lifted this offense and how the Niners feel different than they have in the past, his willingness to push the ball down the field and some of those explosives that they can find, that is different. And I thought that he did

that as well today as he has in pretty much any game I've watched him over the last season and a half just consistently finding explosive plays down the field, whether it be in structure, out of structure, and having the arm to make it happen. So I was very impressed with the way that he played today. The four-in-ears average 9.9 yards per play, but had a 38% success rate. It's nice. You know how you do that? Explosives. Yeah. Yeah, they had 12 explosive plays. 22.6% explosive play rate, which is the third highest Shanahan's ever had since he took over at the 409ers, which I thought was interesting. But, oh, my God. Not just like, so an explosive play, always generally, traditionally, is 12 yards in the run game, 16 yards in the past game.

But the 49ers had 11 plays of 20 or more yards today, six of 30 or more yards and four of 40 or more yards, which is, that's as explosive as it comes. And it's just ridiculous. It's Debo Samuel and George Kittle are. very fast and very strong and have very good balance. But yeah, they were just, they were, gangbusters today. I mean, it's just, how do you stop these guys? Because this is not even including, oh, yeah, they have Ayuk and CMC. And it's like all these other guys at the first play of the game. It's like CMC almost taking it to the house, which I want to get on the other end about that play. But yes, but I, just this 40-9 offense, it's just ridiculous.

On the flip side, Seahawks defense is a real letdown. The pieces that they have, the amount of big swings that they took and the pieces that they added this off season. They spent on Draymond Jones. They traded a second round pick for Leonard Williams. Rieke Wolin had the rookie year he did last year. It's like, okay, they can really build on this. Like, what sort of unit can this be as they try to assert themselves as contenders in the NFC? The moves that they made, I think, told you that this team thought it could compete with the really good elite teams in this conference. And the offense, we've talked about all year and some of the inconsistencies there. The defense, though, is where I think it's been really discouraging because they're 28th in EPA per game right now on defense.

And things don't seem to be improving. And I don't know what the answer is because they've been kind of flailing as they've looked for one over the last two years. Their problem is they're committed to certain players that make them play in a certain way. And that makes it overall negative being Jamal Adams, Bobby Wagner in particular. We know what the trade was with Jamal Adams, several. first rounders, money. Bobby Wagner, of course, is a legend that they brought back. But the problem with these players is just that because they have to play in such limited roles, Jamal Adams is best in the box. He's basically a linebacker. Or he's best. If they do want to play him as a deep safety,

he cannot be the post safety or a single high safety like where he's hanging. We saw the depo same old passing or receiving touchdown. The first one, the long one. Olson said how many times speed of three. So it's 15 times. But it's like, that was true. But at, Adams on that play, he's caught in no man's land. He's supposed to catch the speed at three, Debo. Adams is supposed to be a very aware, very intelligent player. And like, there he is, like, just not even staring over there. He's staring at the quarterback.

And Adams is, he's trying to make a play. He was trying to bait something over the middle, you know, catch the curl route that was in front of him. Instead, there's Debo just running right by him. And especially post-injury, he just doesn't have that quick twitch anymore to recover. Like, I think he thinks he can. The Seahawks average 4.9 yards per play without Jamal Ames on the field this year, 375 plays. They average 5.9 yards per play when he is in the field. About the same and a little bit more sample size there, but their success rate drops.

It goes from basically they hold offenses to a 40% success rate without them. Now it drops to, what is that math? 52 with him on the field. So it's just a huge, huge, drop off when he's on the field because he has to play like that. And same with Wagner. Wagner has to be hidden. He can't carry like he used to in his prime. He's not the plus plus athlete. And because it has this trickle down effect, okay, we have to put Adams in the slot. Now Witherspoon doesn't go in the slot. And Witherspoon's best from the slot. We were just talking about Kyle Gordon and the impact

that he has now from the slot. Witherspoon is that even better. And so again, it's just this trickle down effect. And they can't really unknotted. It's really hard. They have to to play a certain way. They either have to play dime personnel or they have to take the green dot away from Bobby Wagner. That's a little, that's a big conversation to have in December as you're trying to make the playoffs. Or do you, they have to run three week, which gets Adam in the box or they have to go quarter. So they're pigeonholed because of their commitment to these players that they thought high of, but now realists have limitations. Yeah, there are going to be some kind of hard questions we have to ask about the Seahawks down the stretch here, especially if they don't make

the playoffs and there will be time to ask those because this has been a really disappointing stretch. Speaking of disappointing, last thing to hit here, the NFC South just makes me sad. The Buccaneers, the Falcons, and the Saints are all six and seven right now. The Bucks are currently in first place. Somehow, this Bucks team with Baker Mayfield at quarterback and a coach that I think everybody assumes is probably going to get fired at the end of the year, or especially if they don't win the division, but either way, it feels like this is probably the end of the for this staff where I think Bucks fans want it to be, they have the best vibes of all three of these teams. Somehow, this Buccaneers team has the best vibes in the entire NFC South. And I think

that says more about the state of the NFC South than it says about the Bucks right now. Because the other team that won in the NFC South today had their center screaming at the starting quarterback, which was just, that's, whew, that's, that's, it seems like a weekly occurrence going on right there for some, something with the Saints locker room going. on, but they did win the game. Yeah, Bryce Young had a rough one today. But I would say the other one, watching that Falcons Bucks game, or at least seeing the parts of it, it was just like, even what at the end, how the commentary made it sound where he's like, Baker Mayfield put the team on his back and it was like, really one completion. It was like, oh yeah, it was a big time completion. It was a hell of a

throw. But it was one of those where it's like, oh yeah, Chris Godwin. I love Chris Godwin. Oh, yeah, Mike Evans, who didn't have much today, but other games, it's like, I love Mike Evans. Oh, Tristan Worf's, love Tristan Wurfs, Antoine Winfield, who's playing like an all pro, love Antoine Winfield. Love all these guys. Carlton Davis, I don't a little rough one today, but still like him. It's like, I like this Bucks team. It's like a large play.

You did? I like these, oh, I know, oh my God, one guy from the Falcons. It's a reminder. I was a year early on the Falcons. I realized that today. It's like, they're just a young team. They're just a young team. It's like, because they do so much well.

And then they have the most stupid botches. And you can see the guys go, oh, I'm the F there. And it's just like, oh, my God, Arthur Smith must just want to like ring their next. But it's like, what are you going to do? It's like, these guys, they have to grow. We've seen what's happened with all these other young teams. But I just think, oh, yeah, the Bucks have players I actually enjoy watching.

So if it's like, if someone's got to win this slop, I always would go with some players and Baker at least chucks it up every once in a while. Yeah, we'll see what happens. Nothing about the NFC South race excites me. It feels obligatory every time we talk about it, every time I consider it. And again, I think that says more about the teams than anything else. All right. That is all we've got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening.

We will be back this entire week with all of our normal shows. Kiefer in the beats coming tomorrow. We got Zach Rosenblatt on the Jets. Colton Pouncey talking about the Lions. Paul Deener chatting about the Bengals. A lot to dig into there. Please check out everything on our YouTube channel. If you're watching on YouTube, please like and subscribe.

We'd really appreciate that. We're getting toward the end of the year, end of the season. If you like the show, please leave us a review wherever you listen. Give us five stars on Spotify. Leave a review on Apple. I would consider it a personal favor to me. If you've listened to the show for years and I've never done that, it would mean a lot. For now, that's all we got.

Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.