The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 16 recap: Lions, Vikings race for the NFC 1-seed, while Chiefs nearly put AFC's top spot out of reach

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

So which team had the best Week 16? It's not as easy as it might seem at first glance. Sure, it might look like the Vikings, who kept pace with the Lions atop the NFC. It might look like the Chiefs, who took an impressive step toward locking up the top seed in the AFC. It might look like the Commanders, who brought back the early season offense in their win over the Eagles. It could even be the Rams, who put themselves on the doorstep of clinching the NFC West. So, who is it? Well, Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen might not answer that question on this episode of The Athletic Football Show. But they will recap Week 16.RundownCommanders take down an Eagles team clearly missing Jalen HurtsThe Vikings chances at the 1-seed...You Have My Attention!The Ravens run game...You Have My Attention!The potential of the Chiefs offense...You Have My Attention!Arizona Cardinals...WTF?!?The top of the draft order...WTF?!?Michael Penix brings some juice to Atlanta's offenseA strange win, but a win nonetheless, for the Rams over the JetsJoe Burrow keeps on making plays on the moveJonathan Taylor's big day and the Colts unlikely featThe AFC Wild Card pictureDrake Maye's zone/man splitsThe latest in Lions trickeryWhat Did We Learn Today?Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. Brought to you by Thursday Night Football only on Prime Video. I'm Robert Mays. Week 16 is here. Me and Derek Classen broke down all of the action from Saturday and Sunday's games. Two big games on Saturday. We talked about the Chief's offensive performance against a very good Texans defense and what that might mean for Kansas City moving forward.

Discussed a monster game from the Ravens running game in a key AFC North battle against the Steelers. Also chatted about the big Washington win against a J-1. and Hurtzless Eagles team. Discussed the Vikings keeping pace with the Detroit Lions and the NFC. Discussed the Cardinals, somehow losing to the Panthers to end their season and chat a little bit about the teams at the bottom of the standings and what they did to the top of the draft. And, you know, get a few more things that jumped out to us in Week 16 and did you see that?

So let's get to all of that with Derek Classen right now. Derek, Week 16 is here. How are you feeling? Tired. It felt like a long Sunday. It felt long. felt long in the moment. It felt the Sunday night game was long. You know, the, like the sun is coming down earlier now because it's, it's the winter, like just a very long week 16 Sunday.

I think it's residual watching two football games yesterday and having that be part of the process, which we are now in that part in the calendar. I forget every year about the Saturday games. I've been covering the NFL full time since like the 2012 season. So this is my 13th year covering the league. I forget every single year that's starting late in December. There are, Saturday games. Last year I had dinner plans with friends that I had to reschedule this year, my wife and I were going to go, like, spend the afternoon together. And I was like, yeah, see ya. Like, we're not doing that. I totally forgot I have to watch football. It's great, though, because we had two very good island games yesterday that we were going to talk about, let those breathe a little

bit. We can pay a little bit more attention to every single game when it kind of rolls out that way. And we had a bunch of notable stuff happening in week 16 that will change the way we talk about some of these teams. We'll change very important parts of the playoff picture. sure. So let's start with arguably the game of the day, certainly one of the more exciting games of the day, and that is Washington, knocking off the Eagles 36 to 33. The NFC East is still technically up for grabs, but this is mostly the Eagles getting bounced from a potential shot at the one seed, given the state of the Detroit Lions right now, and Washington cementing themselves pretty much as a playoff team. They have a 92% chance to make the playoffs right now,

according to the numbers that Bell are dropped in here. So a big win for Washington, an important loss for the Eagles. Where do you want to start with this? Because I feel like we could have a jumping off point in like four or six different spots here. That's a great, but this could start anyway. I guess for me, we'll start with the winning team. And I'll try to talk about what we kind of saw from this offense.

There were parts of it that I think we thought we would get coming into this game. And there were parts of it that I think we were unsure of. As far as the run game goes, Washington did not run the ball well in this game, like outside of the quarterback runs, like all of their handoff runs, were not very useful. And what did we talk about coming into this week? That Philly is a really good light box run defense team, and I think you saw a lot of that today.

The difference in this game is I think we came into this thing, and especially me, okay, the past six or seven weeks, this was not a very explosive passing offense. They really, really struggled to get that. Well, today, all of the go balls they threw seemed to work out. They hit one out of their own end zone. They hit another one for a touchdown. They hit another one that was a completely blown coverage

when Philly had 12 men on the field that they get for a. another touchdown. So this was just kind of a game where, even though the run game wasn't working for them, they got a lot of the high variance stuff that went for them. They got the explosive plays down the field. Jaden Daniels was unbelievable on like some of those third and longs, whether it was scrambling, whether it was passing. He was doing a really good job of converting and keeping them on the field there. So this was just one of those, this has been a volatile offense for I think a lot of the season or an offense that does best when they're hitting on some of the volatile trends and some of the volatile splits.

And man, today they did a really good job hitting on all of them. It's such a strange game to talk about because there are so many different competing factors going on at the same time. Washington goes 7 of 13 on third down, which is huge over the course of this game. Jaden Daniels has two fourth down scrambles that are probably the most, the two most important plays in the game. The decision to go for it on that fork down in the second quarter was fourth and four from Philly's 39 yard line.

They go for it. he scrambles for a touch he scrambles for a first down they score touchdown on that drive there's a fourth and 11 scramble in the third quarter he scrambles for 12 yards they score a touchdown on that drive those two decisions and those two plays he made with his legs end up swinging the game in washington's favor yet they turned the ball over four times so it was just a very confusing game overall the number that i want to throw out for why just the way washington's offense felt in this game i thought it was very emblematic of what they put on the field and what jane daniel specifically did in this game Washington finished with 0.11 EPA per attempt. So when they threw the ball was at 0.11, they finished with 0.31 EPA per dropback, which was the fourth highest mark of the weekend. That almost never happens. If you look at those stats typically,

it's almost always the EPA for dropback number is lower than the EPA per attempt number because you're factoring in sacks. Almost always that is the case. That discrepancy between when they threw it and what their dropback efficiency was is explained 100% by what he did as a scrambler. And that was the game today. Him hitting those two deep shots and what he did as a scrambler, that is the reason on offense that Washington won this game.

And even for him specifically, you would think that the rushing and the scrambling element would even out in the sense that he's usually a very high sack player. So it usually would be like, all right, well, he... Exactly. He only gets sacks one time in this game, which I thought was super impressive. And so normally you'd have these games where, okay, he scrambles for two or three conversions and that bumps it up, but then he takes four sacks

and it kind of bumps it down and equals out, but he just didn't take any of those sacks in this game, which was pretty necessary when, again, the run game was not putting them in very good down in distances. So the fact that he wasn't making that any worse with what he was doing in that sense, I thought was good. I will say this was probably his weirdest game in terms of putting the ball in harm's way. Like for as good as he played and for as many of the good throws, I did think he made, some of the interceptions were bizarre. The one that he throws to, I think Luke McCaffrey, the first one, just simply overthrows over the middle of the field.

And then towards the end of the game, there's like three minutes left. They're driving a little bit. He bails out to his right, gets a little bit antsy in the pocket, and just like tries to chuck one back across his body to the middle of the field. It gets knocked up. I think Blankenship intercepts it. I thought that was going to end the game, but then Philly... It probably should have.

It should have. And then Devontas Smith does the thing he never does, which is drop a wide open pass. So like you said earlier, there's a lot of competing factors here. Like, Jaden did a lot of really good things. Well, and then he probably should have lost the game on that interception. And then DeVantz Smith makes a mistake that he just never, ever makes. There are, I think the word that Nick Siriani used after the game, which is an apt word to use when describing what the Eagles did today. It was sloppy.

Even if you account for J1 Hertz not being in there, a lot of the things that they did, a lot of the mistakes they made, they were sloppy. That third and five in completion of Devante Smith, that should be the game right there. There was another sequence that really jumped out to me when I was just thinking about how uncharacteristic the Eagles performance was, even with strengths of their roster. At one point in the fourth quarter, they had a first and 10 where Mackay Beckton just misses Duran Payne. And it was a negative 4 TFL on first down. On the next play, Landon Dickerson just doesn't block Bobby Wagner on a sim pressure. And that's that near fumble that Kenny Pickett had. And now we're in third and 14, giving the ball back to Washington.

and that next drive was the one where they get the 12 men on the field penalty and completely blow the coverage and just hand a touchdown to Almeida Zekees. So Washington deserves a ton of credit for a lot of the things that they did today. And we'll get into some of the other specifics that I think are worth pointing out. But I also think it's worth mentioning that the Eagles had a ton of chances to win this game, even without Jaywin Hertz, because of how many times Washington turned the ball over. And they shot themselves in the foot way too many times at key moments down the stretch. I think that's a great point because what have we said about this Eagles team for a lot of the rest of the season, but especially like the past six or eight weeks, it's like, okay, whatever we want to say about the quarterback, all of the other guys are so good and this thing is so insulated and so mistake-free that eventually you just win football games.

And this was kind of the one time where a lot of that went against them. Like you said, some of those offensive line miscues that they almost never have on top of the fact that you do have Kenny Pickett back there. And then Devontas Smith dropping the past that he has, like for this team that almost. almost never makes mistakes outside of the quarterback position. You would expect those guys to step up when you do have a backup in the game. And this was somehow their worst game that they've probably played at least since like probably October, I would imagine. Kenny Pick, it was rough. There's no way around that. I mean, there were so many moments where you look at the disparity between him and what Jaywin Hertz probably would have done. Some of the sacks that he took, the

pick to Frankie Louvre. That was important. Like him being a very, a much lesser quarter. back than Jalen Hertz did end up mattering in this game. But the thing that I think was most important on that side of the ball is how Washington's run defense locked in in the second half. And that, again, I think some of that is attributable to Jalen Hertz not being in the game, whether that's his role in the run game, but also the way that Washington was playing. So these numbers are from next gen. I looked them up right after the game was over, maybe take them with a grain of salt,

but they're typically pretty accurate. So in the first half where the Eagles were doing everything they wanted up, on the ground. Washington had lined up in a loaded box. So more defenders than blockers on 0% of the eagle snaps in the first half. In the second half, it was at 35%. The Eagles are at 41% rushing success rate, 42% rushing success rate in the first half. In the second half, they go 20 carries for 42 yards, 30% rushing success rate with all of those loaded boxes that they were having to deal with. So I think that transition from we have to worry about J.1 Hertz in the run game and we have to worry about you throwing the ball period to not having to be concerned about those things anymore.

I really do think that shaped the way that Washington could play in the second half. And you combine that with some really excellent individual plays. I thought Louvo was really good. I thought that their front played well in that second half. But that's transition without Jalen Hertz in the game, I think ended up mattering a lot. You could feel it in the second half, too. The fact that they were just, I mean, I'm surprised that number is not even higher that they. weren't playing with more loaded boxes. Yeah, so was I. Right? Like it just felt like they were doing it on every single rundown and they were doing a really good job, like you said, of containing him. And they pop maybe one or two runs after that because the Eagles will get that on you. But the fact that they were,

they made the conscious decision to say, hey, we're not going to let the running back who has a shot at the MVP award go and win this game. We're not going to let him beat us. We're going to go make the backup quarterback beat us. And they especially did that with, you know, typically what you don't want to do with the Eagles is give them those one-on-ones. And Jalen Hertz, again, for some of the other things, some of the other complaints, he's really good at throwing those one-on-one balls, especially to A.J. Brown. Kenny Pickett mostly struggled to do that in this game. He hit that one down the right side to A.J. Brown, where he just... Which is all A.J. Brown. It's basically a punt. Yeah, it's basically a punt, and A.J. Brown goes and gets it. But even for as good as he is at that, you don't want to do that eight times a game.

And I think that Washington was betting, like, yeah, you're not going to get enough of those plays. And so they just kept loading the box and trying to put Kenny Pickett in second and, you you know, tens and all this stuff where he's got to go be a big boy passer and he just, he struggled to do it. So I thought it was a really smart decision by the Washington staff in the second half to just say, hey, yeah, we're not going to let Barclay beat us. The Eagles were awful on third down in this game. So they finished three of 16 on third down.

And even some of the decisions on third down, they ran on third and seven at one point. Marshaun Lattimore stopped AJ Brown a yard short of those sticks and they didn't go for it. There was a play where Frankie Louvre dropped stake on Barkley. on a third and one behind the line of scrimmage. Louvo was awesome in this game. He made like four or five splash plays. Obviously, he has the interception. He has that TFL.

There was another TFL that Washington had in the second half where they have two pollers, the Eagles do, and Louvue just up ends Jordan Milata in the backfield, and they end up dropping Sequin in the backfield. So again, it's a combination of the way they were able to play plus some individual performance stuff. The last thing I wanted to mention about Washington's offense, I thought that some of the designs in the red zone that they got. some of their short touchdown passes. Those bunch

sets to the right and what they were doing out of those did a really good job of stressing the Eagles defense consistently. The second one, I believe, to Zakias, that's after C.J. Gardner Johnson gets kicked out. They're picking on McCollum a little bit on that play. But similar sort of action to the first one. But on the first touchdown, Crowder takes the post to the post and scores a touchdown. On the second one, Zakeas takes it to the corner and on a very, very similar action. So I thought that what Washington was drawing up in the red zone in some of those high leverage moments, by design, they were giving themselves a lot of good chances. So again, just one more little wrinkle, one more

little area where I thought they did a very good job today. And you can see how those two plays built on each other. The first one where they get Gardner Johnson, it's kind of like you said, it's more of like a short post seam, whatever it is. But Gardner Johnson has his eyes in the backfield because they're running like a little what looks like a flat type screen out to the perimeter. So he's trying to jump it. He's trying to, I want to go hit somebody. And then the second one, they run it, where it's the corner. And McCollum is trying to play like, oh, I feel like the post is coming. I feel like it's coming.

So he's trying to stay in the middle and then they just break it outside. So again, like you said, really good designs and really good job of just building on what you saw the Eagles defense trying to do to you. Yeah. Again, not the most highlights throwing the ball for Washington today. It's like down to down efficiency in terms of like big completions. But you combine the two big go balls and the touchdown to McClorin, the timing on that. They're willing to let the willingness to let that thing rip.

Beyond the downfield accuracy, that's always what stands out to me about the way that Daniels pushes the ball down the field is the timing that he does it with, where there's no hesitation. He plays with a lot of conviction when he is uncorking those throws. I think that just speaks to what he's been for most of the year. Even when this offense has had little stretches where they weren't necessarily humming, I feel like he's always had a really good handle on the situation, what is being asked of him, et cetera. The moment does not feel too big for him. And I think this might have been, if not the best, than one of the best examples of the entire season. Yeah, I think I 100% agree with that. That's been the most impressive part to me is just,

you know, he might still make mistakes, but you just feel like he's in control of what's going on, at least in so far as much as a rookie can feel in that in control. All right, let's get to a couple other things that stood out today. It's time for you have my attention. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention. The Minnesota Vikings hope for the one seed in the NFC.

You have my attention. They beat the Seahawks 2724. They are now 13 and two and tied with the Detroit Lions atop the NFC. They host the Packers in Week 17, which is a monster game. And then they get the Lions in week 18. So this Vikings team where,

you know, they're a good story and Darnold's doing some fun stuff and their defense is funky, but are they really up there with the teams that we think are true, tenders right now with the teams that can win the Super Bowl. I had my doubts about that. Even 10, 12 weeks into the season, it felt like there was a slight gap between them and everybody else. But with how banged up Detroit's defense is, you know, with some of the

imperfections we still see with this Eagles team, I think we're getting closer to a place where I'm willing to believe that the Vikings can do something we did not anticipate. And I think today was another very good example of what they're capable of. I think they are better than this team I'm going to invoke, but it feels a little bit like when the Titans stole the one seed and the AFC. And it was like, for the entire season, we were like, okay, you know, they're a good team, but, you know, it's the Chiefs and the Bills. Like, it's not going to happen. And then you get to the end of it and you're like, wait a minute, they actually stole the one seed. And I do think this, this Vikings team might be a little bit better than that.

I think their defense is playing at a really high level right now. But it just feels a little bit like that where this team that you thought was a. fun story more than anything else is kind of creeping up on you. You know, like you mentioned, the Eagles lost kind of their chance at the one seed with this. And it's not even now that they're chasing Detroit. They have a lower chance than Minnesota does, which three weeks ago, I don't think I would have imagined for this team.

I think the biggest thing that jumped out to me today, the defense continuing to do what we expect them to do based on what they've done all season. This was another example, just of the ways that Sam Darnold can hurt you based on the receiving talent that they have, but his ability to. to subtly extend plays and the pocket movement that he brings. I think that's been probably the most impressive part of his game to me this year. And I think that these were probably the most impressive examples of that, that we've seen all season.

I mean, the touchdown he throws to Justin Jefferson to essentially put the game away for Minnesota. It's an insane play. Like, he's forced to climb the pocket on that play. And the placement outside, him leaving that ball outside, in the moment, it seemed like, oh, Jefferson was open, like, that you know it's a great way great job identifying that but the ball placement doesn't really matter on that play but then you watch the replay and if he doesn't put it just slightly outside that ball's probably incomplete

so the fact that he had another one of those moments today and there were two or three more where his subtle movement around the pocket and the ability to kind of find someone a little bit later in the down i think that's probably the area that he's elevating this offense the most even if you're even if you kind of have to concede that the environment overall in the supporting cast is very, very good. It just feels like he has a little bit more clarity doing that than he ever did early in his career. Like he used to try to extend and it was more of a dice roll than anything. And now it at least, and this is partially because the, you know, Addison and Jefferson in particular are going to make him right more often than not.

Like even on that Jefferson one, it is a good ball placement. It's also an unbelievable catch. It's an insane play. And it's adlipped in the moment, according to Kevin O'Connor. That was not the way that they drew up. So that's the other part of this is like, yes, of course, the Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison elements of this, you have to acknowledge. But I do think that he is stepping outside of that just enough where you have to recognize the ways that he's also

elevating this offense. Right, because he made not only this play, but I think it was, I don't know if it was the drive before or maybe two drives before, but he made another one where he's got to like shimmy out to his left a little bit. He hits Justin Jefferson on like a big deep over outside of the pocket where, again, it's just three, four of those plays a game. And if you cannot contain him and like make him get pressured inside of the pocket and make a throw, you know, from that bucket, then you can get these plays where he scrambles outside just a little bit and is able to free himself and make some of these plays. So I thought Seattle a little bit struggled to do that. Like I thought maybe they would have a little bit better day of crushing the pocket on him and

maybe making him make some of those throws from deep inside the pocket. But he did a really good job of freeing himself and doing that. And honestly, the other aspect of the Jefferson touchdown kind to end it, all that is insane. A couple of plays. before that, it seemed like he tweaked his knee. And he was like kind of, you know, hobbling around a little bit. And it seemed like, where are we going to get Daniel Jones in this game? And the nope, he just comes back out there and has the just complete confidence in his, his teammate to go make that play. So I thought that was the coolest part of that moment is that he, it seemed like maybe was going to go out of the game and then saves the game a player two later. Like that was just,

that's really cool. So again, my notes back over right now. Another important forked down decision. We mentioned the fourth and four scramble that Washington pick up early in that. game the Vikings go forward on a fourth and four i believe on their first drive and they have hockinson this is again just the little subtle things that this viking's offense does by design it's just really really fun to watch like there's so many moments where you're watching them it's like oh that's good man like that's just so good and that fourth and forward they have hockinson in the slot they run a little slot fade pick play for him Jefferson completes it and then that drive ends with the addison touchdown where he's sitting down over the ball and they only get down into the red zone because he comes

all the way back across the field to Addison on like a little comeback route on the right side. So again, just more moments where it's like Sam Darnold is really doing the most he can with this right now. Like his place within this offense, he's not just along for the ride. And again, I think the first drive of the game was an example of that. That Addison touchdown actually is in some ways more instructive to me of like why this has worked for Minnesota. because some of the extending stuff, you could sell me that Sam Darnold could just get hot on extending plays, right? Especially with these receivers, like, you could sell me that that could happen. Him being as quick as he was, particularly on that Addison play, where he opens to his right,

and as soon as the last step of his drop hits the grass, he's on to Addison. Like, he knows he has to move on, bam, immediately throws it. The fact that he's playing with that level of confidence, that level of speed, he's not like waiting to see Addison open. He's just immediately turning and triggering. That's to me kind of why this thing has worked. The fact that he just trusts Kevin O'Connell so much. And then obviously, Kevin O'Connell has schemed it up so well. It's a better marriage than I thought that we were going to get coming into this season. I think that's where I've landed as well, is that it really does feel like everything. You have all these conversations in August about how things are going to go. And it's always

spawned in the most optimistic possible light. And so talking to Sam Darnold coming into the season, I think that he just really appreciated for the second year in a row. The same thing was true in San Francisco, but working with a play caller and an offensive architect in the head coach that was just very good at articulating the intention behind what you're trying to accomplish as an offense and what you're trying to accomplish as a quarterback. And when you watch Sam in this offense, you feel that intentionality. It's like, all right, I'm going here for this reason. I'm going here for this reason. And you combine that with the receiving talent that they have and some of the wins they have purely by design. And you get an offense that I think has vastly outperformed our

expectations given his history as a quarterback. All of this being said, there are a couple swing moments in this game where they very nearly lose this game. Two that I will point out, the Justin Jefferson touchdown on the go ball, that only happens because Trey Brown lines up offside on what should have been a third and eight sack and then they get another chance on third and I think five or so third and three. They throw a touchdown of Justin Jefferson on that play. the incredible Justin Jefferson second touchdown, that only happens because Byron Murphy is dinged for a face mask on what should have been a drive-killing sack.

So even if the Vikings offense had their moments today, the margins are slim enough where one or two small things go the other way. And we are not talking about the Vikings having a potential shot at the one seed. We're talking about whether the Seahawks can steal the NFC West and what their potential chances look like moving forward. Darnold did also try to throw an interception before that second touchdown. He, you know, he tried that. So that was such a crazy sequence, by the way. You have like him trying to throw an interception. You have him getting sacked and then the face mat happens.

You have his knee getting banged up. And then like I said, like a player two later, he makes the insane Justin Jefferson. So the fact that the game basically swung in that four or five play sequence just feels crazy. Like so many things, like the entire game happened in that moment, which I thought was insane. And also, I want to say on the first Jefferson touchdown, his ability to uncover, like, at the absolute last second is one of the most special traits that any receiver has in the league. Like, even against, I know Trey Brown has, like, hasn't played that many games this year and all that. And he had the blunder before that lining up off sides.

But the fact that Justin Jefferson can consistently do that is unbelievably impressive. There was a gap in this game. There's been a gap all year. I can't remember the exact numbers coming into this. but I want to say the Vikings were one of the best contested catch teams in the league and the Seahawks were one of the worst contested catch teams in the league. And I know D.K. had the somewhat contested touchdown at one point. But this season, and I think you saw a little bit of that today, this season, there is no

quarterback in the NFL has a lower EPA per dropback on tight window throws than Gino Smith. He is dead last in the NFL. And when you watch D.K. McAff play and when you think about just the construction of the rest of their receiving core. That makes sense because DK is 6-4-235, but he plays like he's 5-11, and the other guys are actually 5-11. So it's just a little bit tougher when you don't have guys that are making plays for you in that way. With the Vikings, it's the opposite. Jordan Addison's 5-11-175. On those plays, he might as well be 6-3, and then you have Justin Jefferson who, like you said, that's one of his superpowers. It's just the ability in those really, really

tight window moments to create that little inch of separation where he's going to make plays that a lot of other guys just aren't capable of making. That's, I'm so glad you bring up the, the contested catchability, because that came in clutch or it came in important on Seattle's basically their last possession where, so Sam Darnold throws that crazy touchdown to Justin Jefferson. Seattle gets the ball back. They get into field goal range. Gino takes a sack to get them like just out of field goal range, which is definitely a mistake on Gino's part. It's probably the worst mistake of the day.

honestly. Absolutely. Like even with some of the picks, that was, I think, his worst mistake to not be able to allow yourself a chance to tie the game up. And then on second and I think it's maybe 16, he tries to throw a dig route to D.K. Metcalfe, DK doesn't do anything to come back to the ball. It gets contested. Now you're in third and 16. And then he just kind of throws like a useless checkdown on third and 16 that doesn't get them back into field go range. And that basically ends up being the game. And so like you just said, the fact that the Vikings could have so many of those moments where they come and clutch. Even the Hawkinson fourth down that you mentioned earlier,

he has to make a twisting catch on the sideline. And for like DK to not come up in that moment after Gino takes a sack, it's just when you have two teams that are this good, that can be the difference, you know, in a game like this. Let's add the Gino conversation first. This is an immensely frustrating Gino Smith game. Not because of the dips in his play. I think if you're a Seahawks fan, that's probably frustrating.

As a Gino supporter, this game is frustrating. because you have these stretches, the two-minute drill, the drive where they go up, I believe, 24-17, where he ends it with the touchdown to AJ Barner. Those two drives, you can't play quarterback better than that. Like what he did in the two-minute drill and just firing laser beams all over the place. And then that Barner touchdown drive, again,

just completely in control of the game. And then obviously he throws two backbrow. breaking picks. The first one to Dallas Turner, that's one where you just, that play has to be dead. Like that's just not, that's not a play you should try to be making. But then the last, the last one, it's just such an perfect indication of where we've been with the Seahawks team all year. He gets pressure in his face immediately. He throws the ball to a landmark and D.K. Maccalf is not at the landmark he expected him to be at. And so if you're trying to divvy up blame in that moment, yeah, you're probably going to put it on the quarterback because that's

the easiest thing to do. But we don't know. Like, is he supposed to round the route off there? The one where he nearly throws the pick in the red zone, whereby I believe it was, I think it was Stefan Gilmore almost picked it off where he throws it down the right sideline. That's a play where D.K. releases inside for no reason when he's supposed to release outside. And so D.K. Gino is throwing that ball immediately just based on the look. He did get fooled a little bit there. It was, I believe it was too man. And because he thought it was man, He assumed it was going to be single high and there'd be a post safety in the middle of the field. So we thought he had one on one.

So it's not a great decision, but the decision and the throw look worse because DK releases inside when he should have released outside. So this is where we've arrived with the Seahawks team where it's like, yeah, Gino's thrown 14 picks this year. He also has 14 turnover worthy plays this year. It's been a decent amount of bad luck. And I also think a good chunk of this is on the receivers in moments where they are doing him zero favors. And that's going to sound like excuse making, but I went back and watch every single one of the interceptions today. And it is not all on the quarterback.

And I think today is another example of that in some of those turnover worthy moments. And he did have another one he tried to throw to Blake Cashman. So I do actually think in terms of like, that's a good point. That's a good point. But the thing that is frustrating, it's not even just the receivers to me. It's that again, this team abandoned the run game. Like we saw in some of the Arizona game, it was like, ooh, they're running the ball a little bit and it looks like they can do it. In this game, they continued to abandon it. And like, that just

continues to put the burden on the quarterback to be perfect all the time. And when you have a quarterback who is extremely willing to throw into all these tight windows, extremely willing to throw the ball down the field, this is why I've said he's like 85% of Matthew Stafford, where he's just this quarterback who's going to stand in the pocket and he's going to make the hardest throws on the field. And you get those two drives where it's like, holy shit, this is completely indefensible. And then you get some of these other plays where he's throwing right at defenders or maybe taking risks that he shouldn't be taking or leaving things up to chance for DK Metcalf to try to run the right route, which is always a bit of a gamble.

So it's just certain stuff like that that sometimes the game doesn't go your way when you play like that. At the end of the day, those moments don't erase the great stretches of play. Like in the aggregate, I still think that he is a quarterback you can absolutely win with if the right things are around him. The problem is the right things have not been around him for the entirety of the season. They've had bottom three offensive line play for a huge chunk of the year. They cannot run the ball.

And I think that JSN has taken a step forward. But the receiving talent on this team is not what we make it out to be. And that brings me back to the D.K. McCaff conversation. If I were the Seahawks this offseason, I'm trading D.K. Macaf. Yes. Like, I know it sounds crazy because of the gravity that he brings and like what he can do as a vertical threat and what his best plays look like and how much of a red zone target he is. But I just, and maybe this is a person.

thing with me just in terms of like the types of receivers I like so the ones that don't make mistakes and maybe they're a little bit more boring. It's why I like Drake London because he just, he might not be the flashiest receiver, but he's very boring in an efficient way. And D.K. is kind of the opposite of that where the highs are so high and there's a very clear gravity to his game, but some of the down-to-down inconsistencies is very frustrating. The lack of physicality at the catch point, the lack of contested catchability, the lack of reliability on some of these throws where he's assuming he's going to be in one spot and he's not he has a 31 almost a 32 million dollar cap hit next year for seattle he has an 18 million dollar base salary they save 10 million they save

11 million dollars if they trade him before june first and part of the reason i think that you should be willing to do this is you can get something for there's going to be somebody that says oh dk at 18 million we need a receiver i'd absolutely do that but i honestly think if you're the seahawks in this moment, you might be better served using the draft capital and the financial resources elsewhere based on what he is giving you right now. Because I think for the most part this season, he's had as many frustrating moments as he's had really special ones. The only reason I can think that, or not the only reason, but to me, the main county arguments would be just like you don't know how long you're going to have Gino Smith at quarterback. So maybe it's just easier to keep D.K.

Metcalf around and try to in this next two, three year window, see what you can do with it. But again, I probably agree with you that I fall towards the side of, let's see if we can reshuffle this room a little bit. All right. Before we get to a big win for the Ravens, let's take a quick break. Let's get to our next game here. The Baltimore Ravens with a really nice 3417 win over the Steelers. They run for 220 yards on 38 carries in this game. The Baltimore Ravens run game and the Baltimore Ravens' offense to an extent.

You guys have my attention after that game. And they didn't even need Lamar to do this. Like Lamar had like nine carries for 20-something yards. Like he was barely a part of the run game in this game, whereas this was mostly just a, hey, Derek Henry, we're going to lean on you for the entire game, which I came into this week saying it's a really good offense. It's a really good structure. But there are just times and there are a couple of games of season where it's like, man, they turn away from this when they shouldn't. And that was not at all the problem in this game. They did a really good job of sticking with it.

They even got Justice Hill involved a little bit in this. And so I thought they did a really good job of sticking with it. And then they hit on a number of different concepts. Like very early on in the game, they had a GT counter concept to the left side where typically you pull the tackle and the guard outside of the tackle on the other side. They hit this one inside of the left tackle. Like they pulls the guys from right to left and they hit it inside. I thought that was really interesting.

They hit a crunch play for like 13 yards. The big Justice Hill run they hit is a split zone play. Like they just every little bag, every little pitch that they could go to, they got to. And I thought it was really impressive that they actually stuck with it in a game that they really, really needed to. I thought there were a couple specifics about the way they deployed the run game that stuck out to me, especially early in the game on that first drive. They were in these super spread formations. They were really trying to create some space and use Lamar in the run game.

There are a lot of like read plays associated with that. And some gap scheme, some zone stuff. But I thought spreading out to run early in the game was really working for them. But I think the thing that carried throughout the whole game, because they didn't stick with that. They started running some more condensed sets later in the game. The efficiency was still there. The amount of eye candy they were using in the run game on Saturday was remarkable. And it was all sorts of different stuff. There was a counterplay where they had record shuffle motion from an offset eye to the left to the right, just to

pull the linebackers that way. They had a ton of stuff slicing back across the formation that was trying to create misdirection. There were a lot of jet motions in this game where all they're doing is trying to get somebody in the run fit or trying to get a linebacker bumping over just a little bit. I thought that so many of the details with the run game in this week specifically, there was a lot of intentionality behind it. And I really, really appreciated how they honed in on some of that stuff.

That's a great point because like the big Justice Hill run they hit. It's split zone. They're running it to the left. But they pre-snap motion someone from left to right. And then at the snap, the tight end goes from left to right. So you've got like double movement. pre-and-post snap where they're pulling them that way. And then there's a big Henry run to start the fourth quarter where it's outside zone again.

But I think they motion a little bit to one side and it gets Minka Fitzpatrick, who is the down safety, to bump inside. And he sees zone action and he just fires through the A gap. Okay, well, it's outside zone, man. You're just going to get run outside of it. Exactly play I was thinking about to get Minka and the run fit. And they were doing that stuff the entire day. It was really, really beautiful to see.

This was the exact game I wanted to see to feel the most comfortable about the offense going into the playoffs. So the fact that we got it, it's like, all right, you've been a weird team for 16 weeks, but to have this game was very, very comforting. In the passing game, I thought that some of the designer play action touchdown they had to Isaiah likely was very similar to a chunk they had in the first games. Heavy personnel, you fake the toss and you hit likely on a little wheel. But other than that, I just thought some of the outbreakers and crossers that Lamar threw in this. game absolutely beautiful like the corner routes of rachad bateman like he he throws corner routes phil philbrivers still to this day is the still the go the greatest corner out thrower of all time like the touch and the timing on those throws was phenomenal lamar right now

him and staffer probably those layered throws outside the numbers on outbreaking routes no one does it better and he had once a likely on a big corner route he had a beautiful crosser that he layered to mark andrews in tight coverage and then the touchdown to bateman so some of those like outbreaking zone beaters that they hit combined with what they were doing in the run game. It's a really nice little mix for this offense. And I think that you really did feel kind of what they're capable of even against a really good team. I want to say, I can't remember, here, six point seven yards per play, Bella dropped it in here. That is the highest yards per play mark of the season against the Steelers.

And so I think that to me feels like a pretty good expression against a really good defense of what this Ray his offense is capable of. And especially, like we said, coming into the week, all of the, oh, the, the Steelers are Lamar's boogeyman. I'm glad we can, like, kind of put that stuff to rest because that was probably stupid. So the fact that he has what was Pittsburgh's worst day of the season on defense, the fact that Lamar and Todd Monkin could kind of go have that day against them. Again, this is the exact game I would have wanted to see two weeks away from the playoffs,

where it's not even just that we're two weeks away from the playoffs. This now gives you the chance to go win. the division, which again is going to be better for the playoffs where you can go secure some home games. So it's just all of this is exactly what Baltimore needed after four months of really, really frustrating football of a great team looking good instead of great. But today, or I guess Saturday, they looked great. And they almost, I mean, this thing was close until the end. I mean, that swing where they get the pick six is the only reason this thing gets completely out of hand. I mean, it was a one score game for most of it. And then Lamar throws just a very,

very, very frustrating pick in the red zone. And it just ends up not mattering because Marlon Humphrey follows that up with the pick six that puts it away. The Steelers, even if they get blown out by 17 points in this game in the final box score, is it weird to say I feel more optimistic about the Steelers offense coming out of this game than I did coming into this game? Because I actually think that they played pretty damn well without George Pickens for a big chunk of this thing. I thought they kind of did. but it's also one of those things where in my head, especially in the passing game, so many of the big plays were like, wow, they found Calvin Austin on a big deep over,

or they found Calvin Austin making this crazy play on the sideline, where they, oh, they found Calvin Austin on an Outbreaker again. And I'm just thinking like, okay, this is a great game for him. How many Calvin Austin, like, how many Calvin Austin games are we really going to get? And I know they'll get George Pickens back. He's turning into a useful player, though. I just, there's a part of me that I need to see more of it to really buy it. And maybe that's just a me problem and not a Calvin Austin problem.

But I will say I did, even for how frustrating the Ravens defense can be, I did think the Steelers would completely struggle to move the ball in this game, or at least more than they did. So I will say the fact that they did something was encouraging, but I think I'm still a little bit more in wait and see mode with everyone else. I think posting, they had a 45% dropback success rate over the course of the game without George Pickens. And I know the Ravens defense has not been great this year, but I do think they've settled in a little bit over the last five or six weeks.

I thought that this could be like a complete, just non-starter for where the Csia was offense, again, after the game that they had against Philly. It was not that. I thought that Russ was actually, I thought he played pretty well given the circumstances, and this game kind of gets out of hand on a one or two play sequence. But I really was more encouraged than I expected to be about the down-to-down efficiency that they were showing on offense. The play where Russ gets out to his left and makes the throw to, I think Ben Scoronic.

That was one of the most vintage rust plays we've gotten all year. And that more than anything probably is what encouraged me. Well, here's what we're not mentioning. Two injuries that ended up becoming important for the Steelers in this game. Joey Porter Jr. leaves the game. And now they're really deep into their secondary depth for Pittsburgh. And I think that did show up. But them losing Scoronic, he was the centerpiece of the passing game over those first

couple drives. And when he leaves the game with an injury, I mean, now you're, now you're without like, your two most important receivers in George Pickens and Ben Scoronic. And what are you supposed to do? And listen, I know we're making jokes. He's a pretty good blocker, man. And so the fact that they don't have him out there for that kind of hurts you a little bit.

So what a stupid position we're in where week 16 we're saying Ben Scoronic for the Steelers actually does something. And it's half a joke, but it's also like half serious. Yeah, I'm mostly joking. Again, Ben Sclerotic has been a fascinating character. But who else do they have when there's no pickings and no Scleronic? That's the thing. You don't seem to think it's a good player,

but continue to make the plays every single week. I still need to see more. A couple more weeks. Let's get to the other game on Saturday. The Kansas City Chiefs offense, which has been a much maligned unit as of late. They have really struggled against good pass rushes. They played another good one on Saturday in Houston,

one of the most efficient, just havoc-reaking pass rushes in the league this season. And the Chief's offense looks better than it has in a while against that Houston team. So this Chief's offensive infrastructure, Mahomes, Andy Reid, everybody in charge of dialing stuff up on that side of the ball. After that game yesterday, I'm going to say, you guys have my attention. I'm just so mad at Patrick Mahomes.

It comes into the game with an ankle injury. He's been hit like a billion times over the past three games. This is supposed to be an incredible pass rush. And what does he do? I think on the first drive, he scrambles like 15 yards for a touchdown. You had multiple scrambles on that drive yet, too. Exactly. Leading up to it, exactly.

And then he pulls off, he like stumbles as he's getting outside of the pocket because somebody gets a hand on him. And then he scrambles for 15 yards to go get it because I think they're playing quarters on the back end and they start attaching to everybody. And he just, they all lose sight of the greatest quarterback of all time somehow. And he's able to go scramble for a touchdown. It's just the fact that they could get away with some of that, which I thought was going to be a problem in this game because of some of the injuries, some of the offensive line stuff. And then kind of like you mentioned, I think structurally, This was probably one of the better games that they've played, I think, as a passing offense. And some of that is getting Hollywood back.

Some of that is now you're pretty much at the end of Xavier Worthy's rookie season. So obviously, Hopkins has been playing in the lineup more. So I just feels like, I think you mentioned this earlier, maybe three, four weeks ago, that there was probably another gear that this Chief's team could get to on offense. We didn't know if we were going to get there, but it was always there lurking. This was probably the first, like, hint of it showing up. here's to me the most important takeaway from this chief's performance i think that having hollywood brown in there gives you a little bit more juice and that's worth paying attention to

and the zavier worthy point is well taken i think that they're figuring out the right ways to use him within this offense and i thought that saturday was one of his better games honestly in terms of his role within what they were trying to accomplish which is like mccull hardman with a turbo pack on yes which is fine right yes it may have shown ability to use mccol hardman so having mccol Hartman with a turbo pack on, I think is useful for this offense. My biggest takeaway from this game, the stat I was mentioning in real time, and I think is worth mentioning again, Mahomes on Saturday, according to next gen, 17 of 19 for 150 yards in a touchdown, 155 yards in a touchdown on throws of two and a half seconds or less.

If you watched the way that they were getting the ball, he was getting the ball out of his hands, but with a lot of schemes touches to do that, I thought the game plan from Kansas City was excellent on two two fronts one you're dealing with a pass rush that you're really really worried about how do we mitigate that you get rid of the ball quickly all right we're dealing with the team that likes to play a lot of man coverage in high leverage situations how do we combat that well two things i thought they did a really really good job of using using motion consistently in this game to get information just a little side to side shuffle motions you know motion a guy across the formation do are we getting man are we getting zone based on

that what do we want to do here. It's a small thing, but I thought they did it really well over the course of the day. And the two plays that stick out to me just by design some of the chunks that they hit, they hit two rail routes to the running back, creating traffic because they knew they were getting man coverage on that play. In totality, all that stuff combined leads me to a place where I think it's worth remembering how good Andy Reid has been at this for a really, really long time. A lot of the optimism about what the chiefs could be and how they could turn around in the playoffs, I think is centered around Patrick Mahomes. And that makes sense. He's still the best player in the sport and has been for a while in these clutch moments. But I also think the possibility

that having one week game plans on offense that allow you to really pick on some weak points in a defense that probably is playing better than you, we should acknowledge that as a possibility for this chief's team. We talk about that with the defense, what Steve Spagnolo can do. But I do think that they are capable in one week increments of landing on these game plans that allow them to look like a different sort of offense than one that has struggled for a good chunk of this year? It's a nice thing to remember. And I think kind of like you said, it's the Mahomes effect where he is so, so, so good that it's easy to just pinpoint a lot of their success onto him. Even for as good as Andy Reid, one has been with the Chiefs, even before Patrick Mahomes, obviously with what he did

with Alex Smith. And then even before that with the Eagles, like the fact that Mahomes has somehow overshadowed a coach that has had such a huge history in the league of success is kind of amazing. But like you said, it's worth remembering that Andy can have these moments and still have these games where he's just better than you. And again, D'Amico Rines is a really good defensive play caller. He's a really good schemer on that side of the ball. This Texas defense is playing really well. And so the fact that he could have the day that he had as a play caller I thought was impressive. You mentioned all the motion and stuff. They also got into a lot of bunches that I thought did a really good job. If you remember almost all of the Hollywood plays, it's out of

a bunch or they're motioning him into a bunch or just certain stuff like that. Again, creating traffic knowing what they're getting from the Texans defense. So I thought it was a really good showing on that side of the ball from him. I will say to both good and bad. I think my favorite sequence from this entire game was they have Patrick Mahomes hits Justin Watson in the end zone. It hits him in the hands on this shot play. He can't hang on to it. And that, That's just one of those things where it's like, ah, this team has just missed on shot plays all season. Worthy at another one where he couldn't get two feet in balance. Exactly.

Just stuff like that all season. But then after the Watson, you know, miss drop whatever you want to call it, he tries to find Hollywood down the right side line. Hollywood starts like jogging into this void in the coverage. Mahomes is trying to rip it to him so he overthrows it just a smidge in. Small communication for a guy who's barely played. And then right after that, it's like third and ten. He just finds Kelsey settling into his own. and they convert third and ten anyway.

Like that to me is the Chiefs in a nutshell where it's like botched shot play. You have a miscommunication with the guy trying to get into the lineup. And then here comes, you know, King Kelsey to save you anyway. Like it's just, that's the Chiefs in a nutshell. The last point about their offense against the, I was going to say the Niners defense because you'll realize why in a second. I think that some of the best one-off game plans we have seen from the Chiefs in recent years have come against this defensive system.

They've played against it a decent amount in these huge games. games to Super Bowls. And then remember when they just absolutely blew the doors off the Niners in San Francisco a couple years ago when the Niners were all the best teams in the league? So they have a history now, four or five, six game history where they're used to going against the system and even going against Amico Ryan specifically. I think that they have a very good handle on how they like to play against these teams. Or we know the pass rush is going to get upfield. We know that we have to do everything we can to tailor a game plan that mitigates that. How do we approach it? I think that that puts Reed and the staff into a really good headspace because they consistently come up with very good plans against these sorts of defenses specifically.

That's a really good point because it's, you're not seeing them as much as divisional games, but they have seen them in enough of these high leverage games and enough times in the regular season that it's like, all right, we've kind of downloaded what we want to do against this particular style of defense. So that's a really good point that I hadn't quite thought of yet. The last thing I want to mention with this game, two things about the Texans offense. One, having the conversation we did about their screen game during the preview show last week and then having them come out and have, I think, four negative plays on screens

is hilarious. There was just a stretch where I was just laughing while watching their offense. Not because I was taking joy in their pain, but just it was so perfect that this is what they did in the screen game after we had that conversation literally a day and a half earlier. It felt like for most of this game, like every other second down, they were just burning it with a screen call. Like just a screen call dead in the water, sometimes to the back, sometimes to a receiver, didn't matter. They were just second and 10. Let's burn it again and put CJ Stroud in third and 11. It's just, that's why this offense is so frustrating.

On a more serious note, the tank del thing was heartbreaking in the moment. Yeah, man. Like absolutely heartbreaking. Obviously, everything he's come back from, he breaks his leg last. year he gets shot in the off season starts slow when he gets back on the field which i think is totally understandable he's on his way to probably the best game he's had all year including that touchdown and then he dislocates his knee in the back of the end zone and obviously his path from here that's just really really sad to think about but cj stroud's reaction to that and the fact that

they had to go back out and play after that i mean you could just see it on his face and i think that it's worth acknowledging like it's his best friend he knows everything that guy has gone through he's carted off the field again after finally getting back to a place where he's playing really good football again and now in that moment he's sitting there understanding god like think about his last year and now he's getting carded off the field again and so that like that was just like a glimpse of humanity that i think is worth acknowledging because sometimes i feel like we just look at that and like oh well they're just going to go keep playing like i'm sure that's not that hard and i think that it's a reminder of just how difficult snapping back into that mindset is if you're somebody

in C.J. Strauss position like that. And I think it was kind of enlightening in the sense of we just never know who these players are. Like I remember when C.J. Stroud was coming out of college between some of like him bombing the S2 test and some of just like, you know, playing in Ohio State's offense that is, you know, him being a seven on seven quarterback coming out of high school. Basically, it was a lot of like, you know, does he really have the put togetherness or whatever that you want from an NFL a quarterback. And so for him to so obviously wear his emotions on his sleeve for a player, he obviously cares about at such a high level. Like it's just, um, again, I thought it was really respectable that he was, that he was able to do that. And then the fact that he had to go out and

play the rest of that game against the chief's defense that was playing well and not making it easy for him to begin with, just a really tough spot for this team. Yeah. It's been a rough year all year. And this is probably the low point when you consider just the emotions that came along with it. So, you know, we'll see if they can do anything to, snap out of it, but at this point, it just feels like this might be the Texas offense that we're going to be working with for the rest of the year. Speaking of frustrating moments from week 16, let's get to what the f***. What the fuck?

I'm letting you take this one because you wanted to talk about this and you, this was frustrating for you. So this is all on you, buddy. The Cardinals, man. Like, listen, I know we've had this moment with the Cardinals where they were six and three or six and four or whatever like a month ago and they've been frustrating since then. and I already threw away the offense and said all that. But you were seven and seven in this game, coming into this game.

Your playoff chances were alive. And if you lose this game, you're completely done. And you're playing a three-win Carolina Panthers team. And you let them run all over you and throw your season away. The Arizona Cardinals, what the fuck? So you wanted to talk about this. And I think that's totally fair. For you to have a game where your season is hanging in the balance

or for you to lose to a team that has three wins on the season. That is awful. that is mildly embarrassing. I am of the opinion that the current state of the Carolina Panthers in the way that they are playing, losing an overtime game

to this version of the Panthers, I don't know, it doesn't feel that embarrassing to me. Maybe I'm overstating like how well I think Bryce Young has played as of late, but I still think it is, if not good,

then at least mildly excusable. I, the only reason I might agree a little bit is not because I actually feel that much better about the Panthers, I think I just, I'm starting to feel considerably worse about the Cardinals and that maybe they were never the team that I thought they, I wanted them to be, especially like on the defensive side of the ball. I think that's kind of where I want to start is that defensively, they've been putting stuff together with, you know, gum and toothpicks, man. And it's been a fun defense to watch. This was a game where you saw a Carolina Panthers offense that has

run the ball really, really well for a lot of this season, especially over the last like eight weeks or so. They ran for like 250 on this cardinals front. They were just moving people all day long. And that to me was where I started to feel like, all right, the Cardinals are kind of moving in the right direction. I think this season has mostly been a success. This was where you really saw the talent difference. I think probably more than any other week. And they've had some rough weeks, but man, this one was tough. So this is where I'm out with this game is I think that, The change in our viewpoint on where the Cardinals are headed and where the Panthers are headed right now on December 22nd, compared to what it would have been a month ago is fascinating. The Cardinals seemed like they might be on track to win the NFC West.

It was one of those teams like, oh, man, Jonathan Gannon, rebuild, everything's moving in the right direction. Look how well Kai was playing. It's all coming together on that side of the ball. Yeah, the defense doesn't have any talent, but it's really interesting. funky they're well coached wheels up like where can this cardinals team go over the next couple years this panthers team six weeks ago looked like they were one of the most hopeless franchises in the NFL like you drafted a guy with the number with the first overall pick last year you had to bench him yeah he's had some decent moments after coming back i think that six weeks ago is

about when he took back that job right six six six games ago they have that game against the giants in London. It's like, okay, that's a nice moment, but what is this really? It felt like Carolina was really, really hard to make a case for why you should be optimistic about the Panthers for the rest of 2024 and into 2025. It was very easy to make that case for the Cardinals. Well, now, I still think you could make an optimistic case about the Cardinals. They have $95 million in cap space next year. If they want to be a little bit more aggressive in adding some defensive talent, they can be. But the Panthers are in a spot now where with the way that Price Young is playing, And the fact that that offensive line feels like a real unit now.

They signed Shuba Hubbard to that contract extension. We've seen some flashes from the young receivers. I actually think you could make a pretty optimistic case about where the Panthers are headed right now. And if you had told me that on Halloween, I probably would have laughed at you. I would have to. I still think there's a ton they need to do on the defense. But the fact that Bryce Young is playing. Yeah.

But the fact that here's the biggest thing to me, too. It's not just that Bryce Young is showing something that he can be a viable quarterback. I think you saw in this game that some of his ability to actually hang in there and make throws under pressure, I thought was really impressive. Like he had three or four moments in this game where he'll take the shot, man, and he'll get this ball off and he'll go give his guy a chance. That was not in his game before like five weeks ago or whatever it was. And so the fact that he's doing that, I think is huge.

And then truthfully, as I'm kind of sitting here thinking about it, again, I don't want to like completely paint this as like tear the Cardinals down. They're terrible. I think they're still hoping if they win eight, nine games this season, that's still successful for where they were. But as I think about it now, is the best unit on either of these teams, the Panthers offensive line? Like, that's a really, really good starting point. Yeah, that's position group. Yeah, I honestly think it might be. It has, like, it, I don't even know what else it would be. Like, maybe Cardinals past catchers is pretty good, but this Cardinals off, or this Panthers offensive line is playing at a really, really high level. And a lot of those guys are are locked in. They're either young draft

picks or guys they just signed this last offseason. So I think them having that starting point is that is how you start to paint the optimistic picture. I think that's a great thing to point out because when the Panthers were building this thing in the offseason, they obviously spent a ton on offensive line. They went out and got Damien Lewis. They went out and got Robert Hunt already paying Taylor Moten a ton of money. Akeeky Kwan is a first round pick.

Their thought, I think, was can we be a team that runs the ball efficiently? Can we create some sturdy pockets for a quarterback who needs them? and can we build everything off of that? The answer seems to be yes. Like their plan coming into the year was we're going to strip the defense of all the talent and all of the resources. We're going to put them back into the offense. What can that do for us?

And it was a winding road, but the place where we've landed, you have to feel pretty good about that, your head coach's ability to be a whisperer for another quarterback, like all of the things that the Panthers would have tried to tell you this offseason about the best way that their season could go. wins and losses were not in their favor for most of the year, but we've arrived at a moment where that plan actually has come together. And that's why I think you can talk yourself into this, because it's not just that they're playing okay. It's that they're playing okay in the

exact way that they wanted to. And I think that goes a little bit further for me. That's a good point. Like these past six, seven weeks, whatever it is, this is what they wanted to be by the end of the season. I mean, obviously they would have wanted more wins, but like this is what they envisioned. It's just the first half of this season is so hard to get out of our minds. And I'm guilty of this too. Like it's very hard to forget how bad Bryce Young looked for those first two, three weeks. The fact that he gets benched for Andy Dalton, who looked considerably better at the time, it's hard to forget that. But the fact that they've gotten to basically the point they wanted to, regardless of how good or bad that first eight weeks was, maybe this is

still a win, again, regardless of how bad it started. I think it is. The fact that they're going to be picking in the top five and the fact that they have four wins on the year. I truly don't think that matters. I think it's mostly about the direction this thing is pointed. We've seen that in the past. You know, like think about the Lions first year with Dan Campbell. It was not about the wins and losses. It was about how does this team feel by the time we get to the end of the season? And I think the way that the Panthers are playing on offense and the way the quarterback is playing, that's something that I can get behind. I feel much, much better about the general direction of everything than I ever anticipated that I would during this season. And that's,

speaks to how far that they've come in the last eight or so weeks. This team is 12th in EPA for play on offense over the last six weeks. 12th. It's not, you know, it's 12th, but that is a very good place to land, considering what we've had to watch for most of the last two seasons. I think top 20 would have been a win. So the fact that their top half of the league is certainly actually a pretty good win there. Get to our next one here.

The top of the draft, right? Just the team did the bottom of the league right now and all the shakeups that we saw today. The Giants get embarrassed by the Falcons. We'll talk about the Giants in a second. The Raiders win a game against the Jags. It drops them from second in the draft order to sixth in an offseason when they're probably going to need a quarterback. So just everything about the bottom of the league and the top of the draft order right now, what the fuck is going on? There are six teams with three wins or fewer. It's week 16. How are we this? laid into the season and there are this many teams who just cannot buy a win if they absolutely

wanted to. It's just so bizarre. And the fact that the Giants kind of sit alone at two wins is very funny. The fact that there is somehow the only team that is worse than everybody else, even though there's an unprecedented amount of bad teams. The only thing I like serious thing I have to say about this is the Patriots are kind of the winner of all of this because they currently hold the second overall pick. They don't need to take a quarterback. Quarterback is not part of the calculations for them. They very clearly have that part solved. They can go take Travis Hunter or whoever else they think is the best player on the board. They are the one sitting pretty. Everybody else is where it starts to get scrambling of, okay, well, if there's only two seats at the

quarterback table here, and there's six of us, someone's missing out and someone's going to have to go buy Kirk Cousins off the Falcons or whatever it is. And that's going to be the fascinating part, is like, if you're the Browns, are you going to be looking for a quarterback that's not Deshaun Watson? If you're the Titans, you need a quarterback. So, and the Jags and the Patriots are pretty much the only team is picking at the top of the draft where we know who the quarterback is going to be next year. So how that shakes out is going to be fascinating. The team I really want to talk about here, and we'll get to their opponent in a second in a good way. I think that we've, for the most part, I don't think it's a guarantee by any stretch, but I think

that there's been a little bit of a drumbeat about Brian Dable and Joe Shane being safe in New York, where it's like, all right, you know, it's ugly right now, but they're going to get their quarterback, you know, this draft class feels like it has a couple pieces that they can build with. Like, you know, this season, this season is not the most important thing. Like, we're going to give them one more year and see how it goes. The last time I can remember kind of a tone around a team like that where, eh, what we get a do over for this? Like, we need it, we just need a new quarterback. Like, it's not our fault with Daniel Jones. Like, we'll make it work. It reminds me of the discourse around the Jets last year where it's like, okay, yeah, Rogers got hurt. So

everything else doesn't matter. Like nothing else matters because the quarterback got hurt. So yeah, you weren't good with Daniel Jones. Your left tackle got hurt. So we're just going to excuse everything that's happening right now. And we're going to let this head coach and general manager that have built a team that is the worst in the league and is getting blown out by the Falcons. We're going to give them the chance to pick a quarterback with the first overall pick

and walk into next season on the hot seat. for what reason? And this is probably worse than that because I know we had the year where Daible somehow got Daniel Jones paid and they were making like the 14th best offense out of effectively nothing. That's not the same to me as what Robert Sala did,

at least with the Jets, where it's like, okay, there's definitive proof that you can have an elite elite unit on his side of the ball. You can at least sell yourself on that. With Davel, it's like you're still selling yourself on ideas. And I get why those might still be good ideas and you might want to sell yourself on it,

but I too am getting to the point where this has been so bad now that, like, I know Drew Locke and Tommy DeVito are what they are, but there should be more options for them and they should look a little bit more playable than they have to this point. And the fact that it looks that bad, I do think it's starting to be an indictment of the coaching staff. If you want to land in a place where it's like, all right, this is, this is so bad with the quarterback play,

we think if they can get a young quarterback that they believe in in the building, they can turn things around. And we think that not throwing more dysfunction into the mix here by firing the head coach and general managers the right path for us. I guess I would hear the arguments on that. I just kind of want to raise my hand as part of all of this and just be like, shouldn't the offensive coach who is the play caller and the person in charge with guiding the vision of this offense, even if you have a back quarterback in there and even if we're talking about the offensive line, like it's this disaster. They lost Andrew Thomas.

That is tough. A lot of teams lose one. one starting offensive linemen and are able to field a competent offense in the NFL. So just this idea that all of this is excusable and we're just not going to pay attention to the results at all and give them one more go around at this. I just kind of want to raise my hand and ask if we're sure about that. Like that's where I'm at right now. That's it.

It also is, it's still not a good offensive line, but it is better than last year's offensive line. Last year's offensive line genuinely was outside of Thomas like horrific. It was one of the worst offensive lines I've ever seen. last year. This year is actually decent. They went out and got multiple starters that are currently playing. Like, Germain Illumina-Lumina-Lumina is still currently playing. It's not like it's been this huge rash of injuries where they're playing backups at every single spot. For the most part, they have been healthy over the course of the year, and they are once again going to finish as a bottom three offense. And at a certain point, I think the results on that side of the ball

that your head coach is responsible for should probably matter as you decide what you want to do moving forward. And two, not to pile on, but like the defense isn't that bad. Like, I know we want to look at a team that has two wins and be like, ah, both sides of the ball must be bad. And the defense isn't good. But like the front has moments and it especially did earlier in the season when Dexter Lawrence was playing, like maybe the defensive player of the year. And so the fact that all of that, yeah, I am starting to get to the point where I'm a little bit out on the coaching staff, even if you could sell yourself on why maybe they deserve another chance. Yeah. So obviously, you know, John Ronion's also heard. So they do have two starters.

out. But at the same time, again, a lot of people have injured offensive line. A lot of people are cycling through guys up front. And it doesn't look the way that it did against one of the worst defenses in the NFL. This Falcons team has not been good all year. And you essentially got blanked by this Falcons team. So just just worth keeping in mind as we think about where this team is at. Negative points. The Falcons scored two defensive touchdowns in this game. They their defense scored more touch than your offense did. All right. Before we hit a few more nuggets about what jumped out to us this week. Let's take one more quick break.

You see that? Did you see that? Did you see that this Falcon's offense with Michael Penix had a little bit of juice today? They looked good. They actually did. And you know what's funny? I swear I don't mean this as any sort of negative against Michael Penix. Like he didn't have to do anything crazy.

Like he made some impressive throws. Don't get me wrong. I think some of he had like one really early on to Drake London. That was really impressive. He had another deep over where he thought. throws the guy away from coverage, which I thought was super impressive. He sat a guy around in his own. It was moving right to left.

And he sat the crosser down before it got into the DB on that side. It was a really impressive throw. And if he doesn't, he's getting his head taken off. Like he absolutely protected that guy from a very bad play. And then generally, I think he did a really good ball of just getting the ball out of his hand, which I think we knew coming in. Like, that's where some of the two comparisons came in. Like, obviously some of that was just they're both left handed.

But some of it was like they just. do a really good job of getting the ball out. And Penix did do a good job of that. But like, he didn't have to go create or make these insane throws down the field. There was a lot of like, hey man, we can run the ball really well. Let's boot a little bit. Let's throw two or three of these intermediate throws. That's all you got to do. And we can go score 20 something points as an offense. And that's all they had to be today. And that's, it's kind of a reminder of almost like what the offense looked like for the first eight weeks. And some of the levers they're pulling are different. But it's like, Kirk wasn't doing anything special. It was just competent. And it allowed the

rest of the skill players to really do what they wanted to do. That's what a lot of today felt like. Yeah, I agree with that. I think that just getting capable quarterback play with their ability to run the ball when things are clicking and the skill position talent that they have. And I do think that the overall structure of the offense is pretty good. This is what you need out of the quarterback. And that combined with two, three, four throws that kind of make you sit up straight in your chair a little bit. The one that you mentioned on the crosser is one of them. To me, that the best throw he made in the entire game is that deep out to Mooney he makes in the second quarter, where he layers it over the flat defender and that we know that he this he has a hose like this guy can throw

the shit out of the ball and so if you're and i think he showed a little bit of mobility in this game he had a couple scrambles in nice moments he avoided a sack where he was getting yanked down i was impressed like even if it's against the giants team that is crumbling in front of our eyes i think that the early returns on what he can be and what this falcons offense can be with him at the helm, I would feel pretty good about what I saw today if I were a Falcons fan. Yeah, if he can just do that and not throw the ball at the defense, like, that's really, again, all you need for this to be because even the run game looked better today because he could actually be part of it.

They, the first passing play they have, by the way, they boot him out to his left, which is funny because they were never able to boot with Kirk Cousins. And then later in that drive, they boot him again. And then two or three other plays in this game, they were booting him. So the fact that they very clearly wanted to tap into that as part of the offense and were never able to do it with Kirk, I think was pretty telling. And I do think helped the offense overall and helped the run game structure. Two more plays I want to point out for him. One was funny and one was actually really impressive to me. The first, there is a scramble attempt early in the

game where he knows he needs to run, but there's something in his body fighting him. And I think it was his first chance to scramble. So maybe it was just like nerves of being, you know, first time in the game. I just thought that was funny, but he did do a better job of it later in the game. But there was, to me, maybe one of the most impressive plays that he made was third quarter there was about eight or so minutes left. They're third and six inside the red zone. New York is playing this double mug look where they're looking to try to pressure him and stuff like that. He is Bejohn Robinson out to his right and another receiver kind of lined up a little bit tight to the formation to his right as well. Pennix as soon as the ball is snapped realizes the mug linebacker off the ball is the one that's

going to have to go cover Bejohn and he peeks and sees the corner is staying with the receiver. so he knows he can just immediately fire this ball to bejean. They go convert, almost get the touchdowns. Like just the fact that he was able to play so fast for a rookie in his first game, I thought that was a pretty nice little nugget for him to have. It's a great way to frame it because I would 100% agree. Again, just playing with conviction, playing on time. It just felt like he was really in command of what they were asking him to do.

And you combine that with the fact that he really does have some physical tools. Like he really is an impressive thrower of the football. I am intrigued to say the least about where this can go and why this is even more important. With the Bucks losing that game to the Cowboys, and we're not going to dig into that game in detail just because we were prepping for the show as it was happening. But with the Bucks losing that game to the Cowboys,

now the Falcons are kind of back in the driver's seat in the NFC South. They're both eight and seven. The Falcons have the tiebreaker. So the biggest point in the Bucs favor is that the Falcons do have a little bit of a tougher road. They play Washington next week, on Sunday night football and then they play the Panthers in week 18, which is no longer the

walkover game and we expect it. The Bucks get the Panthers next week and they get the Saints in week 18. But now the Bucks need the Falcons to lose one of those games for them to make the playoffs. And I think it's easier to talk yourself into what the Falcons can be with that change your quarterback and the fact that now if they went out, then they control their own destiny. I do just want to see it now. Like this is nothing against, you know, Baker or the Bucks offense. I think they would still be fun in the playoffs too. But at this point, it's like we haven't gotten to see much Michael Pennings. And by the time we get to the end of the season, we'll have only seen three games, whether

or not they make the playoffs. I would like to see a little bit more film. I just think it would be the most fun version. And if he can maybe get a little bit more comfortable in the offense, then maybe we start seeing him throw down the field a little bit more by the time we get to the playoffs. There is something that is, I think, more fun that we could potentially see out of the Falcons offense if they get in. Yeah, I'm excited to watch them over the next two weeks in a way I wouldn't have been with

Kirk. And I think that that says a lot about the choice that they made and about the first glimpse that we saw from him. Let's keep rolling here. Did you say that the Rams were losing to the Jets at the start of the fourth quarter of this game? This was, so we're at the point in the season where there's no bye weeks, right? So you can't keep up with every single game in the moment. This was one of those ones I just didn't have on my screen. I kept looking over at this game and being like, dude, it's the Jets who gave up like three weeks ago. How are they not? How are the Rams? I know the Rams have been weird and frustrating as well. But like, how are they not running away with this game? It was just to me, one of the most baffling results that I think we got all day. On a day that had a handful of

them. So the fact that this one kind of stole the show for me was just a bizarre game. Two things involved here. One, I think that the Rams are frustrating. They continue to be frustrated. Matthew Stafford threw a bad pick in this game. Like, they just have these moments where I just want to sit there and be like, why are you this way? Like, why are you the way that you are? But you combine that with the fact that the flow of this game was just bizarre. The Jets had an eight and a half minute drive in the first quarter. So they bled out half of the first quarter when they had the ball. They also had the ball for 16 consecutive game minutes at one point.

They had the ball at the end of the second quarter and then they had a 10 minute drive at the start of the third quarter. So there was a stretch where the Rams just didn't have the ball because of what the Jets were doing. And the Jets didn't score on one of those possessions. It was just a strange game. So I think that some of it was just the way that the game played out in the rhythm of it. And some of it was the Rams being way more frustrating than we want them to be. Thankfully, they end up winning this game and we don't have to have a very shitty conversation about what's going to happen with them

because they're still in the driver's seat in the NFC West. But my conclusion with this is again, just like, why are you the way that you are? Can't you just be normal for like a week? Matthew Stafford is funny too because he like you'll get up for the big games. like, you know, when they play Buffalo, it's like, I'm going to play the best game that I've played all season. When he plays the Jets, the team that he probably thinks he should just beat and he's like, eh, I don't know if I want to do this today.

And they didn't even throw that much. That's like, I think the other kind of funny thing, how this gets so weird and so volatile is you have the Jets somehow bleeding out the clock the way that they did, where them having the ball for almost 16 consecutive minutes, I would imagine is the most that any team has held the ball at any point in like consecutively all season, which is just a weird footnote to throw onto this Jets season. but the Rams are also a team that likes to ball control. We're going to play slow.

We're going to limit possession. So I guess when you have them playing that cell of all as well. They had a 49 accessory today on offense and they couldn't have more because they were just running the ball over and over and over again. I don't know what to make of them. I truly don't. I don't either. I still, even for as frustrating as they are, never know what you're going to get when you open up the Matthew Stafford, you know, bag in the playoffs. So I still want to see it.

I still want to see it. Let's get to our next one here. Did you see that Joe Burrow had probably his. best day in a season full of them when it comes to just doing magical stuff moving around the pocket this has gotten ridiculous like every game he's making five or six plays with i wouldn't even call it subtle pocket movement just demonstrably great pocket movement and getting off throws that he just shouldn't be able to make i mean he is playing at the highest level i've ever seen him play and that is says a lot considering what we have seen from joe burrow over the last few seasons

Even for the record and all that stuff, what he's done this year makes me feel so, so much better about their four or five-year outlook or whatever. Just because of the step that he's taken in that sense where he, I think for a while, people wanted Burroughs playmaking ability to, like, actually be on the level that Mahomes is at just in terms of some of the escapeability, some of the weird arm angles, all that stuff. I think he is finally, in terms of that, as close as he's ever been.

And there are still some throws, obviously Mahomes can access because his arm is just stronger. But in terms of actually finding the little crevices where he can escape or getting to these weird arm angles or knowing when he can actually do this stuff versus when he can't, it's something that he's had to fine tune over the last two, three, four years. The fact that we're finally getting to a place where one, it's as good as it is is incredible, but also now like kind of useless in the sense that like this team just can't win games anyway is very frustrating. But I think it's just been unbelievably impressive to watch him do what he's done. Like the one where he, I don't know who he threw it to which tight end, but where he, his back is almost to the line of streaming by the time he throws it. Yeah, he's like 360 spinning like trying to get the ball off. His back is almost to the line by the time he throws it. Just the fact that he can get away with that now. How many guys have the confidence to do something like that? It's really cool to watch.

So this season, he has 40, he's thrown for 4,200 yards and 39 touchdowns. if this team had like any semblance of team success and their defense had a pulse for most of the year, he would be in the conversation to win the MVP award. He's going to have one of the best non- MVP quarterback seasons that we've seen in like a decade. What do you think the lot? What's their record right now? Are they seven and eight? Is that what their record right now?

Yes. What do you think their record would have to be for him to be top three in MVP odds? Like if they were nine and, and what? Would it be nine and six? Like, would that, that would be enough? I think they'd have to be like a sure fire playoff team where they were in a spot where the Chargers and the Broncos were right now. Then I think that we would probably be having a more serious conversation.

Yeah. I don't think it would take a lot because he has played that well this year. I mean, there's a really good chance in a 16 game sample. He throws like 40, 43 touchdowns and eight picks and throws for 4,700 yards. Just an insane season. There's, if that. Washington game alone doesn't happen. He might be in it.

Because they would be 500 if that game doesn't happen and they don't lose that, like where Terry McClorn just makes the incredible play, Jaden Daniels starts with him. If that doesn't happen, they'd be 500 and 500 is probably not good enough to win the MVP. But we would actually be more seriously talking about it instead of everyone doing the conversation of, oh, if the team was better, he would be in it. Like that one game, that one moment might have been enough to actually have him in it. I say that and Lamar has 3,800 yards, 37 touchdown passes and four interceptions this year. He's, yeah.

I mean, the MVP race is tough. And then what Josh Allen is doing too. Right. Him and Josh Allen. It's just very funny that, bro, isn't seriously going to be a part of that MVP conversation considering the season that he's had. Let's take in this AFC wild card space right now. Did you see that Jonathan Taylor single-handedly won a bunch of people, their fantasy semi-final games today? And did you also see that the.

Indianapolis Colts threw 11 passes in this game and scored 38 points, two marks that have not been hit in an NFL game since 1993. Never in my life. I was born in 97. So in my lifetime, this exact game has never, ever happened. I'm just an insane game. Of all the quarter, there are a handful of quarterbacks in the league that I think you could imagine could give you a I've never seen this game.

Anthony Richardson, for better or worse, is certainly up there. And so the fact that he is kind of in this now and is in that historical marker for a game where you didn't actually throw that much and you were just running the ball and chucking a few, I think it's very funny. I also think more seriously like this, it's just so frustrating that they have this game a week after they needed it. Last week would have been great. And they like kind of started to have it. Like Jonathan Taylor had the big run and he drops it at the goal line.

And it's just so funny and so frustrating for them to have this, legitimately historical win in the way that they got it, probably just a week too late. They are still alive, and I'm just going to read off the facts about this situation before we move on. The Chargers and the Broncos can both clinch playoff berth with one more win. The Colts, the Dolphins, and the Bengals can only make it by winning out, and the Chargers are Broncos lose out.

So even that would necessarily get them in, but that's where the conversation starts. the current standings are the pecking where we're moving forward. Nearly all the permutations would have the Colts in first, like the most likely of those seven and eight teams, followed by the Dolphins who also won today and then the Bengals. The percentages, Bellwark drops in here, they're from Austin Mock here at the Athletic. The Colts have a 14% chance,

the Dolphins have a 12% chance, and the Bengals have a 5% chance. So it's not totally off the board, but it is going to be a tough road for any of these teams to actually pull it off. I mean, the Colts are lucky. They play two of the top three teams in terms of draft order right now in the, in the Giants and the Jaguars.

And the Jaguars are starting Mac Jones, which is a very nice thing for them. But this team, like, I know they all have the same record. So this is like a stupid thing to say. But even with that being the schedule, I can't trust the Colts. Whereas I look at the Bengals with a considerably harder schedule. And I'm like, I would still rather trust them in what the quarterback is doing. Yeah, I think that's fair. But again, it's, I think that they've just dug themselves a little bit too deep of a hole.

So we'll see what happens over the next couple weeks, but it does feel like we're probably going to get the Broncos and the Chargers, which feels right at this point. Did you see what Drake May did today against the Buffalo Bills? And did you see his man zone splits against the Bills defense today? They were very funny. He was incredible this entire game. I don't know what his. Actually, you know what? Read me the zone in man splits.

because like you could kind of see it in the moment and you could feel it. Some of the man stuff, he was kind of just chucking up his one-on-ones. But I would like to hear how this went. Drake May in this game, according to next-gen stats, 18 of 20 for 196 yards against zone coverage. Against man coverage, four of 16 for 65 yards with an interception and a touchdown. If we generally believe that you play man coverage because you're not worried about the receivers, could there be a more perfect split for Drake May at this stage where we believe in none of his past catchers, he goes four of 16 for 65 yards against man coverage and goes 18 of 20 for 196 against

a team that lives in zone coverage and has for the last like 10 years. I think it's absolutely spot on it. To me, it's like kind of how you felt about watching this game. Like I watched this game and it was just Drake May is so, so good man. And even with a lot of the man stuff, he was getting man. and then being like, I'll see if Kisham Boodie can go out run this guy. Or even the pick he throws, it's like, ah, there's traffic. It's kind of late in the down.

I'm just going to throw it up, see if he can go get it. Obviously, some of that stuff just didn't go their way. But against zone, I think you can tell. And I think this is what's most impressive to me is I think people kind of thought the Drake May project would be a little bit more up and down his first season. And so the fact that especially against a defense that majors in zone coverage, a defense that has been as put together as, you know, Sean McDermott's has for years now, the fact that he could go out and dice it up the way that he did he was excellent on like third and fourth downs in

this game too just in terms of completing balls and mostly converting them like he was just i just watched drake may and the fact that he had a game against stafford and now has a game against josh allen where you can see some of the nuggets of his game in those guys's game who have played at an MVP level before who have played at a super bowl level it's just really encouraging to me like may has just been incredible. And this was the fact that you almost beat maybe the best team in the AFC. You know, I know the bills kind of had a stupid day and Josh Allen had one of those, I'm going to take the week off type of games. But the fact that you almost beat the bills and really needed a couple of stupid things to go against you for you to lose this game, just really

impressive for him to do that. I was looking up his numbers while you were talking. Drake May this season among quarterbacks with at least 250 dropbacks is 21st in EPA per dropback. There are 34 of those players. EPA is a team stat, right? And that's the difficulty when you're trying to use it as a way to convey the quality of one single player, even the quarterback. It's a team stat because sometimes you can be lifted by your circumstances and what you're doing statistically is not indicative of your contributions to the offense. I don't think Drake May is being lifted by his circumstances with what he's playing with in New England. The fact that this is day, not bottom third of the league passing offense since Drake May has taken over as the

quarterback. I'm not overstating this. It is a miracle. It is actually a miracle that he has been able to do this. And we've directly seen what it looks like with another quarterback. Like look, Jacoby Preset has been a solid backup and spot starter for a lot of points in his career. The offense looked pretty non-functional for stretches when he was out there. They bring in Drake May and they've had stretches too where it looks non-functional, but they have had these good stretches where it's like, oh, they look like they've kind of got something here on offense. And the fact that you're doing that when, like, Jalen Polk has basically not played for the second half of the season, you're throwing all of your explosive shot plays to Kishon Booty, who is like a late round pick. You're probably

most reliable pass catcher at this stage is Hunter Henry, who is like, solid. But if that is your clear number one guy, you're probably not a very explosive or diverse passing offense. And then the offensive line is still not very good. Like the fact that, again, he is, you know, what is probably the 28th, 29th best unit, whatever you want to say, the fact that he's brought it up to 21, huge win for the young man. I think that what the Broncos offense has done is impressive. And I think that Bo Nix is done well in those, in that situation.

Bo Nix has the third lowest pressure rate in the league this year. The two guys ahead of him are Tua and Aaron Rogers. Tua plays in a fake offense and Aaron Rogers like interested in hanging on to the ball. Those numbers are fake. he has a 25.9% pressure rate this year, Boenix does. He is 23rd in EPA per dropback. Drake May has been pressured on 38% of his dropbacks,

and somehow this team is 21st in EPA for dropback when he is the quarterback. It's really impressive. The ability to shine through, given these circumstances, is incredibly impressive. And if I were a Patriots fan, I'd have some reservations about the way that year one has gone with this regime, especially on defense. but I would feel pretty damn good about what things look like with this quarterback moving forward.

Absolutely. I mean, I think coming into a repealed season, you at least want to feel, you at least want to get to the end of the season and feel good about one of the two stabilizing factors, head coach and quarterback. I think with quarterback, you're pretty good. Last one here. Did you see that the Lions scored a touchdown on a play where they had Jared Goff fake like he was stumbling?

I mean this in the most endearing way. I am so sick of Ben Johnson shit. Like, it's every week, man, he's doing something like this. Whether it's just some weird trick play that you've never seen or he's doing it for no reason or they're up 30 and he's trying to throw a trick play to an offensive lineman. Like he just, there's no need for him to do these things and he's doing them almost for fun, which is it kind of cool and kind of speaks to how good this lion's offense is that they can consistently put themselves in spots where, yeah, they can just have this throwaway trick play that they want to do for fun. I was into it today because I was hoping to kind of look into my future. Well, your team was in attendance here, so I think they were trying to look into the future there as well. Yeah, that's really all I cared about was whether or not this is a glimpse of what might be to come for me, which, you know, let's, we get to get out a little bit more.

Let's talk about what we learned today. You know, I think I've learned something today. Why don't you kick us off? What did you learn in week 16? I think this was kind of a lesson in, listen, it's week 16, especially this year, the playoff picture is like mostly figured out. And there are a lot of teams that have absolutely nothing to play for. Teams will still play for something in week 16. Like we can't just handwaves some of these results. The fact that on Sunday night we have a Cowboys team that has a backup quarterback and nothing to play for beats a potential division winning Bucks team. You have again, we talked about the Rams game earlier where they're struggling. with the Jets for some reason. You have a Panthers team that also has nothing to play for this season against a Cardinals team that has their season on the line and they go win that game. And then the Patriots almost beating the bills today.

Like just I think it was kind of a reminder that we want to handwaves some of these games and be like, oh yeah, X team with 11 wins will go out and beat this garbage team or this team has something to fight for so they'll go win. Just doesn't work like that. Like these guys are professionals. They want to be on the team next year. Sometimes you just have to remember that these guys are going to play until the final whistle of week 18. It's a great thing to point out.

Mine is looking at Washington right now and then thinking about where a team like the Niners is. It's just important to remember that this can all change a lot faster than we think. If you get the right people and the right jobs and the right roles, whatever organizational malaise came before it, even if you think that you're one of these cursed teams. And I know that with Washington specifically, obviously they change out the ownership, and that's the biggest thing that you could potentially do. But I still feel like the right quarterback can change

how an organization, how a fan base feels about itself. And so when you're a Washington fan and you're watching that team with Jaden Daniels today, think about how you feel now compared to how you felt at the end of last year. And then the flip side of that, what if you're a Niners fan? And you just watched them lose a game to the Dolphins today, You watch the state of that team and just where things seem to be headed and what the season has felt like compared to what it was last year or even coming into this season.

And maybe I'm trying to tell myself a story there a little bit because my team is going to be hiring a new head coach and you hope that things can look a lot different if you have the right person in charge. But I think being open to how fast all of these things can change if you get the right quarterback or the right play caller or the right coach, all of that. That's worth remembering. And I think that today was a very good example of it with Washington and San Francisco kind of being the best possible examples. And Washington's a great example too because they went into last year with obviously these were different circumstances, but there was maybe some hope of trying to sell yourself on this young quarterback that Sam Howell could maybe be something for us and maybe we would strike gold. And then by the end of the season, he was just like a completely broken player. Like there were maybe 12 weeks where, okay, you saw some flashes. And then by the very end, he was completely broken and you were like, ah, we're.

here again where we just have absolutely nothing. Like you said, fast forward a few months, you hit on the Jaden Daniels pick. He looks awesome. And we weren't talking about that team in this way. I thought the commanders would win at most like five or six games. The fact that they're now at 10 wins, it's like it speaks to the fact that these things can change. I mean, even kind of to a degree, the Cincinnati Bengals and Joe Burrow. Like they were a team where things, things fell apart for them really fast and they get that number one pick. And then they hit on Joe Burrow, who obviously they weren't a perfect team, his rookie season, but you could see as a rookie that Joe Burrow had it. And then the next year they get Jamar Chase, they go all the way to

the Super Bowl. It's like, this stuff can just fall apart and be picked up really, really fast. And it's not always going to happen for every team. Sometimes you got to do it slow like the lions. But these are professionals. And there are sometimes where you can just hit a couple of right things, a couple of explosive pieces, a couple of catalysts, and it can really kick it up and not really fast. And that's the story. You have to tell yourself if you're a fan of one of the down-trodden teams at this point in the calendar all right that is all we've got for today quick programming note about this week we're going to be putting out our midweek show kind of tomorrow into tuesday uh because of the holidays so just be on the lookout for that on christmas eve we're not

going to have the midweek show coming out on wednesday because it's christmas we're going to have a truncated version of our preview show heading into next week what we're going to do is we're going to uh talk about the two christmas games that happened and then we're are going to preview a couple games from week 17, but we're not going to do the full week 17 preview just because obviously we're not going to be previewing and prepping the show all day on Wednesday like we typically would. So still have the same number of shows coming your guys as way this week, but the release schedule is going to be a tiny bit different.

So that's all we've got for today. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll be back soon.