The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 17 Recap: 49ers win thriller over Bears, Eagles outlast Bills, Drake Maye dazzles, and more

Episode Date: December 29, 2025

Week 17 was all about the upstarts that have defined this season. The San Francisco 49ers and Chicago Bears gave us a game of the year candidate, with the 49ers coming out on top. The New England Patriots clinched the AFC East and Drake Maye made a case for MVP. The Jacksonville Jaguars took another step toward the AFC South crown. The Seattle Seahawks and Denver Broncos inched closer to locking up the top seeds in their respective conferences. Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman look back at the week that was and set the stage for the final week of the regular season on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)2:52 Niners beat Bears in SNF thriller21:25 Eagles take down Bills39:00 Texans keep rolling, beat Chargers49:44 Ravens stay alive with win over Packers1:06:10 Browns upend Steelers1:13:15 The NFC South remains the NFC South1:24:20 What made us romantic about football in Week 17?1:33:10 What did we learn in Week 17?Connect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Hosts: Derrik Klassen and Dave HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dave on X: @davehelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays, man. One heck of a week 17 slate. Obviously, the Christmas games earlier this week, which we talked about on Friday, but we had two Saturday games, both of which we dug into big wins for the Ravens and the Texans. The Ravens staying alive in the AFC North Race

with the Steelers' loss, which we also hit today in a little WTF. We kick things off, though, with a fantastic Sunday night football game between the Bears and the Niners in a thrilling show. shootout and hit a ton of other great stuff from the week 17 slate with me, Derek Klesson and Dave Hellman. Let's get to it right now. That was one heck of a week 17, huh?

That was an incredible week 17, man. Obviously, we're coming off the high of the end of that game, but the rest of the slate was better than it looked going into it, honestly. Just when I think I'm annoyed with the NFL for the Christmas shenanigans, they totally redeem themselves. that was riveting from beginning to end. It was a great couple days of football. I mean, yesterday you had a big time game

between the Chargers and the Texans. You had a Ravens Packers game that was different and entertaining in a way. I don't think we could have expected. And then all day today, I mean, you had plenty of compelling, important stuff happened throughout the day, ending with a fantastic Sunday night football game.

And that is where we are going to start. The Niners beat the Bears, 42 to 38. in an absolute thriller of a shootout. Very rarely do you go through an entire game where you think the first team to get a meaningful stop is probably going to win this game. And that's how it felt in the second half.

I honestly, there was part of me that when Joanne Jennings scored that touchdown for the Niners to go up four, the fact that it happened with two minutes left and not 10 seconds left felt like the bear's best chance to actually win that game and then they almost did.

Even Chris Collins said that on the call. he was, I think it was right out of the two minute warning. They're down four. And he was like, with the way this game is going, I think I'd rather be the bears here. And I kind of agree with him. Like, they were driving every single time they got to football and they almost did it again. They were one play away from doing it. I know they came up on the short end of the stick. I get it.

But also just the way the bears navigated that, I thought was so masterful. Like bleeding it all the way down to the end. There's like two things I would do differently, I think. which are? There was two moments. One, when Burden makes the catch with like a minute left, they let it tick all the way down to like 45 seconds. And then on the next play, they used a timeout.

I think I use my second timeout after he makes that catch with like a minute left and save those 20 seconds. And then even if you are prioritizing getting the right fourth and five play, how nice would it have been to have two timeouts left rather than the one when you're going down. there in that final sequence. I don't like having to win the game on second down or on first down because you ran out of time. So I just think I manage the timeout slightly different, but I completely understand what he's trying to do because the last thing you can allow it to have happen is to give

them the ball back with any meaningful time left because they're going to go down and kick a field goal. The touchdown has to happen with 10 or fewer seconds remaining on the clock, in my opinion. And yeah, they could have done it. Maybe they make different decisions if they can do it over again. Maybe masterful was hyperbole by me because I'm excited in the aftermath of the game. But for a young... I like the thought process a lot. Yeah. No, the thought process is exactly what I want to see. And I complain all the time. I think too many, too many coaches will prioritize scoring at all costs. And it's like, no, man, in this

game with what we've seen from these offenses, it's obviously scoring is paramount, but bleeding the clock has to be part of your strategy too. You absolutely. have to do that. And so, yeah, maybe you call a timeout earlier. Although I was fine with that, to be honest with you, like when they were, you know, when the clock was ticking down under a minute, I was like, yes, this is perfect. You got timeouts. You got time.

You're not that far away. It was refreshing to see, especially like a first year coaching staff and such a young team approaching an end of game situation that way. I like some of the situational decision making overall. I mean, them going forward on that fourth and five when they were trying to to 35, that's just something you have to do in that moment. Like, if you kick a field goal there, I think you're almost admitting defeat. And so them hitting level on that fourth and five to keep that touchdown drive going.

And then them kicking the field goal to go up 38, 35, I honestly think it was a third and 11. If Caleb hits that checkdown in Monongai and they gain like five yards on that play, I would not have been surprised if he had actually gone for it there to understand that they probably needed another touchdown somewhere to win the game. I think the only reason they don't consider going for that to kick the 3835 field goal, Derek, is because it's a third and, it's a fourth and 11. If that's fourth and like five or less or six or less, I think that probably becomes a decision.

And I think that speaks to the mindset that bears had in the entire second half of that game. Yeah, I think if that's manageable, you absolutely take it. And I kind of agree with you with like earlier about the fourth and five where they take the time out, try to get into the right call. To me, like I, again, I do understand that thought process. it's a young coaching staff learning how to navigate all these situations. But to me, part of the reason you have a Caleb Williams is that even if you're wrong and get the call wrong, he can make you right.

And so I understand wanting to be in the right call. But at a certain point, it's like, I kind of would have let it go and like try to keep as many resources as I can and just see if you can make a play, honestly. Caleb Williams was awesome tonight. I mean, which was your favorite throw? Like of the like he made like four. The touchdown to Love one on the free play is, I mean, he makes that. that throw, that's a 47-yard throw in terms of total error distance.

And the ball never gets like 10 yards or 10 feet off the ground. I mean, that thing is a frozen rope for 47 yards. And then the one he hits the level and down the left sideline for that 33-yard gain, that was probably my second favorite. But you had plenty to choose from on both sides in this game. For me, the one that he makes rolling left to burden on the sideline. That's also an incredible catch by burden where he like kind of like comes back and like stops before the sideline.

but that play, when he started rolling out, I was like, I don't know how he's going to fit anything into here. And for him to rip that, like, on the sideline is crazy. Because a lot of times you see quarterbacks and they'll, like, kind of make those throws to the left, but they'll throw it back to the middle of the field where there's still a lot of space. For him to pin it on the sideline like that is incredibly difficult. Like that to me was like that.

And then, like, like you said, the 47-yard where he's just flat-footed and, like, can't adjust his throwing motion, can't adjust his throwing platform at all. And he just sticks that on a rope. those suit thos were just like there's there are only so many people at a given time who are that talented he flicked his wrist that was it yes this is going to sound stupid because i know i know he's one of the worst busts in the history of the league but like jamaurcus russell is who came to mind when i saw that where like you're just talking about such an absurd degree of arm talent where you can be

standing like that and just sort of flick it and and put it 50 yards in the air i mean it was It was jaw-dropping. We're prepping for the rest of the show while we're watching these games. And I did a double-take like Bruce Ariens in that GIF where I just broke my neck at a 90-degree angle when I saw that. It's telling that we're spending all this time talking about how well the Bears quarterback played, the Bears' offense played. They averaged 6.9 yards of play. They had a 51.6% success rate per next gen.

They scored 38 points and they lost because the Niners' offense was incredible. in this game. It is so telling that Caleb Williams could have that game with those like four or five spectacular moments and you can make a very serious argument that he was the lesser of the two quarterbacks in this game because of how well Brock Purdy played and how well Brock Purdy continues to play. It was funny. I had this thought, it was a combination of plays. It was the design keeper touchdown that he has and he obviously has two touchdowns on the ground. And then the play he makes on outside the left of the pocket, making two guys miss and then finding use check.

We had this conversation in the Tray Lance Brock Purdy draft about how Kyle Shanahan sought out a quarterback with this physical skill set that could transcend whatever system he wanted to put a quarterback in, where he wanted a guy that could make plays with his legs and he could make plays just kind of outside of structure and kind of paint outside the lines a little bit in a way that a Shanahan quarterback never really had been able to do.

And that's why they drafted Tray Lance and now this many years later, that guy's actually Brock Purdy. It's actually the guy they drafted with the final pick in the draft as the one that has allowed the offense to get to that level because he's capable of making those plays outside of whatever the X's and O's looked like. And I just think there's such a sweet irony in that,

but that's exactly what Purdy gives this offense when he's at his best. I think it's so funny to how, like, yeah, with the Tray Lansing, it was like, well, you need one of those guys because you need the Josh Allen, the Lamar Jackson, the absolute like top of the physical specimen tools, all that, we know, whatever you want to say. And it turns out Shanahan kind of just needed a guy who like crossed certain bars. Like, Purdy's a pretty good athlete, but he's not special.

He's got a decent enough arm sometimes, but he's not special. He's just willing to make a lot of these plays. And I think him, him just looking healthy, I think over the last three weeks has been like, this is what you can get out of the best offense. Because again, we've talked about the room. It changes everything. Because he does all of the Mac Jones stuff. Like he can replace some blitzes and he'll hang in the pocket and make some tough throws.

And he's accurate against man coverage and all that stuff. But then him willing to push the ball down the field and then also make those plays outside of the pocket. Like you can't run that keeper, the keeper on the end zone with Mac Jones. No. That doesn't fly. And so for for Purdy to be over the athletic bar where it just unlocks a little bit more of the playbook for Shanhan. And when you do that for arguably the best caller in the league, that goes a pretty long way. I love the point that this is what you wanted from Trey Lance,

but I also just loved the symmetry or irony that he was doing it against the team that has Caleb Williams. Because like if I just showed you the heat map of the use check play, like if I just showed you the dots, you would be like, that's Caleb Williams. He's the only guy that can do that. Or maybe like Kyler Murray, number one overall picks in their draft class. And here's Mr. Irrelevant doing the same stuff. the fact that in this game, you don't have George Kittle,

you lose Trent Williams on the first drive of the game, essentially the first play of the game. And this team finished with a 58% drop-pack success rate over the course of this game without those guys. It's just such a reminder of how little this team needs to feel this scary. It really just is CMC, a healthy party, and then one guy among your past catchers

that can consistently win one-on-one matchups. So the fact that they lose Kittle in this coming into this game, but they get Pierceall back, you check enough of the boxes. That's where we are right now. And Purdy playing like this and Purdy looking healthy, the difference to me, and we talked about this on the preview show,

when you're playing against the Niners with Mack Jones, they are still a really hard team to deal with. I believe Mac Jones right now is like the second best passing success rate in the NFL this season among. all players after Brock Purdy. The difference is it goes from being a hard offense to play against to being an offense that makes you question your will to live

if you're a defensive coordinator. Like the level of frustration that comes with playing Purdy when he can get those three, four, five plays with his legs and when he's extending, that's what takes the offense from, oh, this is going to be a pain in the ass to I'm not sure I'm built for this anymore. And that is what the Niners' offenses felt like over the last couple weeks. Dude, and you know what? they're over the last couple of weeks in the Colts game.

And then in this game, they've been more explosive on the ground than they had been at literally any point all season. It helps to play against the Bears. It does help. But at least they're like doing it against the teams. They should finally be doing it against. Playoff team is going to win the NFC North. Yes, exactly.

Like it is a team that is going to force you to make a shootout and you've got to make your plays. And I thought like the CMC run early on in the game where he bounces left and makes the Sean right miss. I was like, that's what peak CMC looks like as a runner. And we just haven't gotten a whole lot of that this season. And then they made a number of other really good efforts. Like his, I think it was his touchdown run early in the second quarter.

That's a decent play by him. But also, Joanne Jennings makes an unbelievable crack block on Noah Sewell. I thought that was a really good play. So then finding a little bit more juice and pop in the running game, I think is partly against some of the defenses that they're playing. But then also like having Purdy back in the lineup, I think has helped a little bit. Those are not necessarily read plays, but just having like the boot game unlocked a little bit more.

Just certain little elements like that have helped. The timing of where they are with their schedule couldn't be better. And we don't have to preview Niners Seahawks. But what timing for that to... Because I think the Niners have been below the radar because it's just so easy to kind of shrug your shoulders and say, all right, but what are they really accomplishing with this? They also don't have a lot of like high profile wins.

Like if you go to the Niners schedule, the Niners played like a pretty shitty schedule. It's not to demean what they did. I think it's just in the way that we do the show, in the rhythms of how we kind of construct it and talk about things, the Niners had the type of season where it's very easy for them to fall through the cracks. They're just a team we haven't talked about that much because they haven't played that many. We're circling this matchup on Tuesdays sort of games this year.

That's just how it's gone. Yeah, they got demolished by the Rams in the rematch, and it's been a bunch of middling and bad opponents ever since. I mean, they got the Monday night game against the Panthers, which was weird. And we kind of expected them to win that game. And other than that, it's been a bunch of. below the radar stuff. But man, not only is this going to be the game of week 18,

but if they beat the Seahawks and I mean, obviously you get the buy week if you do, but also what better test for this offense than that defense to say, all right, I mean, if these guys can hang like 27 on the Seahawks with everything on the line, who's to say they can't make a run, even with everything that's gone wrong with their defense this year? I can't wait to get that litmus test.

when your defense is this banged up and is struggling to this degree, obviously it's going to come with some consternation. But the offense looks so good that I think they remain dangerous. And I totally agree with you. I think that game against the Seahawks next week is going to be a very good litmus test to see where this Niners team is as we get there. And potentially this Niners team with a buy in the number one seat in the NFC. The last thing I'll say about the Niners offense, I continue to think this.

Pierce all is like a dude. When he's out there, he is like a dude. And I would love for him to continue to stay healthy. Derek, we did this. I think it was the Titans game, where we did it on The Hangover. He looks incredible for the first two series and then gets hurt and doesn't play again.

And then in this game, he looks incredible the first time, a couple times I throw him the ball. And then he gets dinged up and like misses, you know, two series in a row. And so I just want him to be out there because I actually, again, going back to like the draft. plans for the Niners, when they drafted Pearsall, the thought was that was coming, I believe, out of the

game they lost to the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, correct? And so that was the game where they got punked against man coverage the entire game because of the types of skill sets they had a receiver. You go get Pearsall to kind of bring you into like the next phase of what the offense is because he's a route runner. You just, I was a very good route runner when he was on the team. It's just a very different sort of player. Pearsall gives you a different skill set. You really haven't had a receiver specifically.

And so it took a while for us to get here. But the idea of what he was supposed to be within the offense is real when he's in there. Like that is an actualized thing when he is playing. Brandon, I, you to me felt more like a slasher, like an inside cut all the time guy. Like, and he had some. He's an outside the numbers guy too. He's like a vertical player. Exactly.

Whereas I feel like Pearsall, there's just a little bit more to his game overall. Like he can beat you one on one in a lot of different ways. He can get on top of your toes like if he's just trying to win on vertical stuff. But I think he's really comfortable flowing over the. middle of the field making some of the tough catches that he needs to make. And then even underneath, like, he's just, I don't know, I'm consistently really impressed by what he gives to them as a guy who they can move kind of all around the formation and ask just about anything of.

I think we're so used to with this offense, like guys outside, like guys in the receiver room fit into very specific buckets and very specific roles. And I don't really feel that way when I watch Pierce all in this offense. No, he's different. He's different than the guys they've had. And it just, again, it adds like another layer to what the offense is when you combine that with the layer that Purdy is giving them off schedule. Holy shit, are they scary?

And I cannot wait to see what they look like next week against Seattle and what they look like throughout the playoffs because they are peaking 100% at the right time on offense. All right, before we move on, let's take a quick break. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention. The Philadelphia Eagles outlast the Buffalo Bills 13 to 12. The Eagles are now 11 and 5.

the bills also 11 and 5. They currently are sitting at the seventh seat in the AFC. Buffalo is. So the New England Patriots have won the AFC East. The bills are going to be a wild card as we move into this thing. The Eagles defense in this game, I mean, the only stat I think that we need to mention is yet again, the Eagles did not complete a pass in the second half of this game.

It is the third game this season where the bills have had less than five net, excuse me, where the Eagles have had less than five net passing yards in a half. there are 10 of those games overall. The Eagles have won all three of the games where they had a half where they had less than five net passing yards. So the Philadelphia Eagles defense and Vic Fangio, that entire group, you guys officially have my attention. Put a statue, put a statue of Vic outside the link. I mean, they already won a Super Bowl, but if they do, if they manage to repeat, let's put it right next to the Dilly Dilly statue. That's my, that's my suggestion.

I was so impressed by this. Like I think there was part of me when I was watching this game for like the first like quarter, maybe into the second quarter where I was like, man, it feels like we're getting a lot of 11 personnel out of Buffalo. And like they're a team when I imagine them, they're a little bit heavier. They want to get more tight ends on the field. And I know they're missing Kincaid. But like still let's try to get 12, 21 personnel, all that stuff. But then I thought about it. And I was like, I can see why from the bill's perspective, they thought having a Dory Jackson on the field was better.

for them than having whoever D-Line 3 or linebacker 3 or whatever it was going to be was going to be on the field. And then Vic Fangio and the Eagles defense still played this way, even being in what you could maybe call like their disadvantaged personnel package. Like I just thought that the bills were kind of scared to get into their identity as a team and the Eagles still took it to them in just about every way except for like one and a half drives in the second half basically I thought was just phenomenally impressive. Do you think that tradeoff is worth it. Like, especially when you're in a place where I don't think so, but I still think it's impressive that the Eagles can do that. Right. But I think the idea of not wanting to just

line up and try to control the game that way feels like a misstep from Buffalo, even if you can understand the rationale about how they landed where they did. Especially in the conditions. Like it was a slop ball game in like 30 degrees rain. Just like go line up, get your big boys on the field and run it at him. So again, like I, like, I understand thinking getting a Dory Jackson on the field is good for us. But like, maybe just being who you've been the entire season is actually better. Didn't it feel to y'all like both of these teams just were sort of in denial about the game they were playing? And I know like Philly, Philly had, like, they tried to run it. They had a lot of unsuccessful first down runs that put them behind the sticks. But like, they came out just, they came out

and threw on their first three snaps of the game into. to a nor'easter. And like throughout the game, it just felt like both of these teams would rather sling the ball downfield. And I just, at some point, I think you got to call it what it is and just accept what you're in

and what you're playing. And it felt like both of these teams were really reluctant to do that. And the play to me that was like the most indicative of how the game was going. I can't remember exactly when it happened in the game. But the bills ran what was supposed to be

like a design man-beater. like a kind of like a crosser return right into his own coverage. And I think Josh Allen ate a sack on that play. I think that was the 19 yard like where he's just wheeling around and doesn't always seem takes a huge. So that might have been it. And so that might have been it. And that to me, again, it speaks to some of the bill's struggles this year when

they've had some of these like, we're dialing up this play against this coverage and this situation. And when we don't get it, we don't have a lot of other answers other than, all right, Josh, go figure it out. And in this game specifically, I think there are two different factors at play. One, he didn't look healthy, right? And so he's limping for parts of the second half of the game. And even independent of that, I don't want to totally blame it on that.

I don't think he played well. I mean, I think there were probably four or five decisions in the moment that he would like back where he takes a couple sacks when he has available checkdowns. He has another 20-yard sack that he takes in this game. Obviously, the fumble is a back-breaking play. And so if you're going to get into this mode where you need the, quarterback to be a superhero because you're just being outpaced with how you're structuring your offense against the defenses that you're getting and your quarterback can't find that year in this game,

this is the result that you're left with. And unfortunately for the bills, I think that's happening too often this year where they're trying to, where they're having to put themselves in that position. It doesn't feel like a good sign for the bills that, and I know, I know the conditions were, they were what they were. But like, the, the, the, the chunk plays, the explosive plays, the very successful plays for the bills were Herculian feats. By Brandon Cooks? Brandon Cooks, Tyrell Fabers had like circus catches in this game.

You have, by the way, both of the big games that we watched today had hook and ladders in like pivotal, pivotal moments. But that's what it took for the bills to get memorable gains in this game. Was somebody just doing something heroic? And that's that's not how you want to live. Fortunately for the bills, Josh Allen is the type of guy that can do that consistently. But not every week,

not against defenses like this, as we saw. There also, to me, there was a sequence where I just thought the Eagles defense, it was called well. Like, Vic Van Joe was doing some cool stuff with some of the pressures. Like, there were a number of times where they were blitzing where, like, they weren't showing blitz and they were just having bonds stay at like a, you know, base alignment. And then he would come late and they were kind of getting the bills that way.

But I also thought they just, and this is not to say that the bills obviously didn't want to win this game. The Eagles defense really wanted to win this game. There was a sequence in the second quarter. It was the late second quarter. The bills try to run with James Cook. He gets chopped down and it looks like he fumbles, but he just gets like chopped at the knees decimated. It looks like he might be hurt, that type of hit. On the next play, Jalen Carter dumps Osiris Torrance, just like rips down by him, gets a sack.

And then on the third and long, they just throw kind of like one of those give up, shallow crossers to the left-hand side, and Reed Blankenship just like tries to take off somebody's like chess plate. It was just one of those drives where it's like, oh, they really came to play today and they're not going to make this easy at all. You felt every single level of the defense.

Bond had his moments. Blankenship had that moment. DeGine was really good in this game. Quinion Mitchell had multiple really nice moments in coverage. And I'm so glad you mentioned just that play from J-Wen Carter, but also just when you watch this defense now with a healthy Jalen Carter as part of it, it just

feels so different because the rest of the front is a good group now that they have Jalen Phillips, now that they have Nolan Smith's back. But when you have Carter as like truly the ace player in the middle of all of that, it just feels like a different sort of defense. They had five sacks in this game. All five of those sacks came when they brought four guys or less. And so this is not a situation where the pressures are the reason that they were getting home. These are clean four-man rushes. And you can live like that when you have a well-constructed group that has, as a player like Jalen Carter in the middle of it. Carter blocked the extra point too.

He was getting hands on everything. That's what he does when he's playing well. They have five block kicks this year, by the way. And like I start to wonder, and I mean, I firmly believe at least part of the reason why Sean McDermott goes for two is like Badgley's missed four extra points in this game

and they just blocked one on us. Like we're not doing a Rams Eagles situation here. And so like, at some point, that starts to like weigh on you mentally as good as the Eagles are at doing stuff like that. I thought, I thought their front was so relentless in this game. Jalick, you already mentioned Jalick's hunt Robert, but I wanted to shout him out specifically on the, on the big third down sack where they lost like 21 yards. Nolan Smith knocked Jalick's hunt down. He was like trying to jump on Josh's back and took Hunt down with him and Hunt got up and rallied to make the play.

And he also, he hawked down Josh on his explosive run early in the game too, where it's a 17-yard run. And I think Josh is getting probably 30 or 40 yards if Jalick's hunt doesn't catch him in the alley and bring him down. I just thought his motor was amazing in this game. And it felt like all, you know, all 15 of the guys that were rotating in and out for this defense were playing with their hair on fire. Eagles defense deserves a lot of credit for how this game went. I think we should sit with the offenses for at least a second time. though. Derek, I'm going to take it one at a time. On a scale of one to ten,

what is your panic level about the Buffalo Bill's offense as we are a week away from the playoffs? And I mean something that could keep them from winning the Super Bowl because that is what the goal is right now. I think like, honestly, only like five or six. I think that's fair. I'm a little bit worried. And like, I think they could have one of these games.

Like we've seen it against the, Falcons. We've seen it against the Texans. We saw it again today. Like, they can have these blow-up games. I just think we remember these blow-up games more because we expect them to be great every week. And you're going to need that in the playoffs. But I still think more often than not, they are great. And I think, like, this was a game where we were kind of talking about earlier. I maybe put this a little bit on Joe Brady for like going away from what I think their team identity should be, which we talked about going into this week was how good were they getting under, you know, getting under center and play actioning and really committing to the heavy run.

and them not doing it in this game and I thought was weird. So I'm a little bit worried, but I still think when Josh Allen is the quarterback, that's more likely than not you end up right than wrong. I kind of agree when it comes to them having the blow-up games just kind of loom large in our minds. It does feel like this year they've had more of them than in other years.

I guess there have only been like three real stinkers when you look at it right. I have all the games pulled up right now. they have three games with a success rate of less than 42%. The game they lost against the Texans, the game they lost today against the Eagles, and then the one where they got blown out, where they played against the dolphins.

So those are really the only three games where you're playing at like a worrying clip offensively. And those are the only three games, excuse me. They have four games, including the Falcons game. I was going to say the Falcons game's not on there. I was about to be kind of surprised. They had a 46% offensive success rate in the Falcons game, which is a little bit surprising.

But so if you look at EPA per play, they have four games with at least negative 0.15. I would have to go back and look at other years. That feels like a bigger and more sustained dip of inconsistency than we get from them in other years. In other seasons, it's like you have that one game against the Texans where they look awful and then for the most part, the offense is very good week to week.

I just think that the dips this year have been a little bit lower and I just don't know what to do with that. Every team in the AFC is imperfect, but if your offense is not going to be able to be kind of a lights out scary unit in the playoffs with the current state of the defense, I just don't know what to make of this team. And I feel like I'm saying that about every fucking team

in the league right now. That's the saving grace for the bills is the weirdest year ever. And you can't really talk yourself into anybody on the, at least on the AFC side of the bracket. I think I could easily talk myself into a couple of teams in the NFC. But I would be, put it at an eight for me. And part of it, I think, is

Josh's foot. And I know his health matters so much. That's a really good point. He said after the game that it had nothing to do, you know, it didn't affect him at all. But, uh, he went to the X-ray room at Highmark Stadium after the game to get checked. So I don't know. You're not, you're not doing that if there's nothing wrong. So that bothers me. And yeah, I mean, like I said, I include the Falcons game. So that's four games where the bills have just,

been frustratingly bad or inconsistent on offense. And yeah, Josh Allen can make a lot of stuff right. But if he's not at 100% health, I just, I don't, I don't feel good about the, the change up in this, in this pitching arsenal if I'm the bills. And yeah, I mean, they could win a playoff game. They could win a couple playoff games. But this is one of those teams that we're judging it based on, are you going to win the final game?

And that feels like a lot to ask of what we've seen from this team. I think I land between you guys. I put it at like a six. So the Eagles. One to 10, Derek, your panic level about the current state of the Philadelphia Eagles offense is what? Eight. Like, it's,

I'm, they're not a good unit. And I know that, like Lane Johnson is, can maybe save this at some point. But I don't know. This to me just does not feel like a very good one. They weren't a good unit with Lane Johnson.

Right. That's kind of the thing. It's like, I think there are other years where I would maybe be like, oh, Lane can come back and it'll fix everything. but I just don't think that that is the case. And I actually do think that Jalen Hurts played fairly well in the first half. Like he was doing really well escaping a lot of the sacks.

Like he got out of a number of sacks. A couple of those turned into throwaways. He made one or two decent throws on the run. Was giving guys some chances later in this game. But the second half was just like dreadful. And I think some of that was Buffalo did come out with, I think, some interesting pressures like later in the second half. There was one where they were backed up and Buffalo showed six guys on the line of scrimmage.

dropped all but two of them out and then fired the nickel and then the late spinning safety from the other side and Hertz kind of got rattled and he ended up bailing and I think took like a one yard sack basically that killed the drive.

So they did do some interesting stuff to him but he was also just not very accurate in the second half outside of, I think that deep throw to AJ Brown that he could have caught but didn't. I also think in fairness to him he's just putting him in being put in really shitty situations in that second half.

They're going run, run pass and just sitting there on third. and seven pretty much every single possession. And it's just the fact that this team with this level of talent can have these stretches where the offense cannot move the ball is crazy. And Derek, you talked about this coming into the week where it was kind of a, all right, if you can't run the ball against this Bill's team, where are you at right now? The Eagles had a 33% rushing success rate in this game.

They had 26 carries for 82 yards. They hit two nice Barkley runs. They hit one for like 12 and one for 16 and that was it. that was that that that is what concerns me is we wanted to see the eagles run the ball and if you're not doing it against buffalo in a monsoon why should I believe that you're going to do it in any other time but having said that I don't know like I don't I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you all that the eagles are fun to watch but I'm not I'm not that worried about it and I just I keep going back to the talent at the end of the day like if the defense

can do this and a big part of this will hinge on like Lane Johnson and the availability of the guys on the offensive line. But if the defense can do this and Jalen Hertz can hit these receivers two to four times a game and I thought Jalen Hertz was like really good with his feet today, just like sack avoidance and getting out of things. The play he made to get out of the end zone and avoid a safety when they got pinned after that turnover on downs and just get out of there. It was a very routine play, but I just thought it was a very heady play. That combined with this defense, I'm just like, yeah, like, am I supposed to be surprised if the Eagles just bludgeon a bunch of teams

17 to 13 and get back to the Super Bowl? I can't write that off. I just wonder if the teams in the NFC are too good for that to happen. Like, are you going to be able to win a game against the Rams where you score 17 points? Maybe. I mean, the Seahawks almost did. They turned the ball over a million times in that first game against the Rams when they were able to slow them down, I just don't know how much confidence I have in that.

Like, the Eagles City 30% offensive success rate in this game. Like, I understand that they won the game, but I just don't know about the long-term viability of that. I get what you're saying. And I feel like we've been burned before by writing them off, knowing that it can break through at any time. I just, I'm sitting here looking at my watch. I'm like, when is that going to happen?

Like, it's week 17. Like, I just, I have, my faith in that actually happening is really, starting to dwindle. I just want to say this. If the Eagles play the Rams, it's going to be in Philadelphia. That's by virtue of not playing in the toughest division in football, you get the home game. And, I mean, if it's in a blizzard again like it was last year, I mean, that's not so conducive to all the stuff. Well, I mean, the Rams run the ball really well, too. Don't get me wrong. The Rams, I think, are the best team in the league. But it changes my opinion of some of these things where these games are happening. SoFi versus Lincoln Financial in mid-January, those are two different things.

All right. Let's get to our next one here. The Houston Texans knock off the Los Angeles Chargers yesterday, 20 to 16. The Texans have clinched a playoff spot after starting the season 0 and 3. The Broncos have clinched the AFC West with that Chargers loss. Chargers obviously still in the playoffs. They're currently sitting at the sixth seed in the AFC. The Houston Texans, after that start to the season, in the playoffs, riding high, playing some of their best ball, especially on defense. You guys have my attention. I knew it was going to bite us in the ass when we made it so we can't put teams back on the table. I knew this was going to happen.

I do not think that they necessarily belong on the table just because they're a playoff team. Those are two different things. I mean, you're, okay, this is what I wanted to start with, actually. I'm tempted to agree with you. And if the Chargers hadn't forgotten how to defend go balls in the first five minutes of this game, maybe it's a completely different story. But the Houston Texans have held 13 of their opponents to 20 or less points. If they do it again next week against the Colts,

they will tie the 22-9ers for the most such instances of allowing 20 or fewer points dating back over the last like 15 or 16 years. Like this has been an incredible run where if you get 21 points, you're probably going to win the game. If you go back, if you just make it so the Texans score 21 points in all of their games, they would be 12, 2, and 1 right now. Like it's unbelievable what they've been able to do. And, you know, their losses have been by scores of like 14 to 9 and 18 to 15.

So with this defense, man, I can't completely rule it out. No, I think you're right. And I think that we have to kind of reframe, and I have to do this. I'm talking to myself when I say we. I think I have to kind of reframe how I think about this for two different reasons. One, this year. This year is just strange.

Like there is a chance that you could be built like this and potentially do it. And that's just not normally the case. We've talked about that a lot. But the other side of it is, and every time we bring up this idea of a defense, defensive-centric team winning the Super Bowl and eventually putting it over the top. I always go back to the fact that almost never happens

like in the modern era of the NFL. The Broncos are really the only team in 2015 that has done this. You have to be like a truly special transcendent defense in order to do that. But I think that brings me to like the next logical question, which is are the Texans like a truly special transcendent defense? Because I think there may be an argument that they are. Listen, man, if they have all their guys,

I kind of think they do rise to that level. Like if Stingley is fully healthy and they've got those pass rushers, like this is truly a pass rushing duo that when we talk about this stuff in 20 years, we're going to like think about, do the stuff like talking about like Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis. It's like it's going to feel like that. Those two are that good. And for them to have the second best cornerback in the league playing behind them,

I think the safeties are playing at a high level. Petrie's awesome. Azizal Shire has been incredible. Like they, I think they do play to the level, at least in the AFC. Like I do think in the NFC, I am probably leaning more towards the teams that feel a little bit more complete like the Rams and stuff like that. But in the AFC, man, all of these teams have some sort of fatal flaw and probably some sort of superpower on the other end.

If I'm like really stacking like how good are the AFC superpower like their one thing is, the Texans defense might be the one that I want outside of like maybe just having Josh Allen a quarterback. Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I mean, you look at the way the game unfolded yesterday, 76 of the Chargers passing yards. And they ended the game with 236 of them. 76 of them came on two vertical shots after Camarro Laster got hurt. Like, they needed Comari Laster to get hurt for them to hit their biggest chunk gains in the passing game. And I remember in real time when we were watching the game, when the Texans scored that second touchdown. And both of those were beautifully designed plays with their tying down middle of the field defenders and taking shots over it.

We've discussed this. Like they need to be explosive because they're probably not going to be consistent. And when they scored that second touchdown, I was sitting on the couch with my wife. And I looked there and I was like, that's probably enough. Yes. With that pass rush. It's probably enough. With that pass rush against that offensive line, that's enough.

It technically wasn't. But the way the game flowed, I mean, it was a two score game in the final four minutes in the charger score a touchdown. So it almost was. And you look at the way that defensive line played, some of the cleanest wins you will ever see in an NFL. game. Like the first DeNeil Hunter sack where he wins on that inside move, I almost thought that there was like some sort of miscommunication. Like why was Bobby Hart not

blocking him when it's a four-man rush? But it's like, oh no, he just didn't block him. He just couldn't do it. And then Derek Barnett has like that two play stretch in the third quarter where he picks up one and then on the next play, he wins with like an incredibly clean spin move for back-to-back sacks. Right now, the Texans defensive line against the Chargers offensive line is probably the single biggest unit mismatch

in the NFL. And we got an up close and personal look at it yesterday. Is this the part where I can say, with all due respect to the Texans, and I'm very proud of them, and I enjoy watching them play. My biggest impression from this game was like, Jesus Christ, help Justin Herbert,

somebody, anybody, do something. I know it's a meme, and I know people hate football nerds that refuse to blame Justin Herbert, but I don't know how you could watch that game and come to like any other conclusion. It was so frustrating watching him try to will this team to anything. And just-

He almost did. He almost- I know he doesn't catch the ball, drop the ball twice. They might have done it. Or if the kicker doesn't grease him, like they miss an extra point and then they miss a 32-yard kick from like the most accurate kicker in the NFL.

It's only missed from inside. of 40 yards in his career. And he misses an extra point. Gadsden has the bobble for the, that gets intercepted on the goal line, one snap after the 60-yard deep shot. Yeah, Robert just mentioned the drop by Gadsden. Like that play where the Texans just demolish the right side of your life. It's insane play. You avoid Will Anderson.

You put the, you throw the brakes on Sheldon Rankins and send him flying past you. throw it on the run while continuing to run for your life from Will Anderson for a first down that would put the ball in opposing territory and it's dropped. And yeah, that's around the time that I think I threw the remote control. The fact that Cameron Dicker, they mentioned every broadcast 10 times, he's the most accurate kicker in NFL history,

misses two kicks in this game. We always joke about the Chargers inventing new ways to lose. This is yet another game where they inventing, invented new ways to lose. There was a long time where the Chargers kicking situation was so bad that it regularly sabotaged them. We thought those days were over. Not so fast, my friend.

They're coming back with the vengeance in this game yesterday. It's an incredibly frustrating situation. And I think my moment yesterday when I was like, this is such a silly, stupid game. The Dalton Schultz first down on the screen, but Leo Mack punches it out. And so it doesn't actually end up being a first down because the fumble goes backwards to make it third and four. And then the Chargers get the stop on third and four. I was like, okay, I guess that's what today is. I guess that's what we're looking at.

That's just the Chargers can't avoid it. Because what's funny is I think the Chargers right now feel more competent top down than they have like in a very long time. Like even just from the way that they're building the roster and the way that Herbert has been playing. The defense is legitimately very good. Right. Jesse Minter calling plays. Like Jim Harbaugh, I think, is like a really steadying factor. And they just, there's still a little something in the building that just, they just, they just say, Harbaugh,

Harbaugh showed up last year and got him to the playoffs. And he's like, what's all this, like, what's this chargering nonsense? Like, you just, you got to learn good fundamental football. And now this year, Arbaugh's like, all right, there might be something to that. Yeah, just the defense is just hellacious right now. And again, I think in this season where it just feels kind of strange. and it feels wide open. We might be in a place where betting on the best unit is the smartest thing that you can do.

And I think you can make a really serious argument than the AFC right now, the Houston Texans defense is the best unit. The last thing I'll say is, speaking of defenses, I really like when we talk about the Chargers viability in the playoffs, what Jesse Minter is starting to do in define passing situations with their pressure plan, they're not going to ever be a big blitz team. Like, that's just never how they're going to live. but Derek, when you look at some of the stuff they're doing on third down specifically,

the Texans were 3 of 11 on third down in this game, and them mugging up some of these looks, sending an unconventional four. I mean, one of the plays that sticks with me, they tried to hit one of the backs. I think it was Marks on a wheel down the left sideline and always just running step for step with him down the left sideline. Just the wrinkles and the levers that the chargers have on defense right now, I think no matter who they play,

they're going to be a pain in the ass for people in the playoffs. I think that is still why, even if the offense is frustrating, even if the offensive line is such a problem, they would still frighten me because I do think they have a puncher's chance in any game simply because of how hard they are to play against defensively. Yeah, the way they call some of those plays, like they can get some explosives for their defense. Like they almost had a third interception on CJ Stratt actually where I think it was

early in the third quarter. They had Troy die like mugged up into the A gap looking like he's going to blitz. He does come for like a step or two. And then he jumps back out and like flies into like what the little like slant where you're just trying to throw into the void. And like if you're the quarterback in C.J. Stroud's seat, everything looks right. Like it looks like there's a void. Die is even coming initially. It's not like he's on the line and then pops out immediately and you can see that.

Like it looks like he's coming and I've got to replace this blitz. And then he just pops out, flies out, gets under it and almost intercepts it. And so like them just consistently doing a lot of stuff like that where they are finding ways to make the quarterback wrong and get hands on the ball. They are about as good as that as any team in the league right now. Let's get to our last one here. The Baltimore Ravens are still alive. The Ravens beat the Packers 41 to 24 with the Steelers loss,

which we will talk about it in a second. We now have a win and you're in for the AFC North game between the Steelers and the Ravens in Week 17. The Ravens running game and the Ravens offense has their best game of the season, which I just didn't know if this gear was available to them based on how most of this season has gone. And so for them to do what they did, 414 yards, 5.6 yards per play, a 61% success rate per true media with Lamar Jackson on the bench. Baltimore Ravens, as much as I feel like I might be being duped again, you guys officially have my attention as we get to the final week of the season. Be honest.

And I know we're going to talk about their divisional rivals in a minute. So we don't have to dwell on that. But last night in the wake of this game, when Derek Henry and Snoop Huntley are putting the cheese grater hats on, weren't you sitting there thinking like, too little too late, guys? Like, I mean, sorry. Yeah. We'll talk about the steel in a minute.

But yes, I did feel that way. I was like, wow, that was really cool. Don't know if it means anything. Yeah. Sorry, it doesn't mean anything. But thanks for the entertainment. and that's definitely what I was saying to myself on Saturday. You know what I did on the other end in terms of positive really felt about this game?

And I do want to reiterate this. And we'll talk about how it all happened. Derek Henry is 32 years old. He took 36 carries in this game for 216 yards. It's hard to wrap my head around a player being able to do that anymore. Like they're they just that doesn't happen to be his age. still look like he's maybe 5% less explosive than he was last year. But when he gets into the open field, he is still moving and like really separating from people.

Like what he's doing at this age for that position is it's striking. And it's a little bit frustrating to me that we haven't seen enough of it this year. Just some of the offensive line issues and Lamar Jackson being out of line up and all that. But getting a, oh my God, Derek Henry can still do that kind of game was fucking awesome. Like I was so over the moon with that. He's a legendary play. And you know, don't throw that word around lightly. He's a legendary player.

And we'll talk about it when we get to that point about the Hall of Fame and about historical stats. When you look at what his production has been as a running back in this era and how consistent that production has been, to me, after the last two years especially, it's like a no-brainer. I said this yesterday after the game. It feels like it's been a quiet season for Derek Henry, right? The running success rate and just like the down-to-down efficiency of the Ravens offense

has really struggled on the ground. And so in my mind, it's like, oh, the running game just hasn't been very good. And it hasn't been. It's been inconsistent. Derek Henry, after 16 games, now has 1,459 rushing yards and 16 touch deaths. That's obscene, man.

That's a quiet year, huh? Quiet year for Derek Henry. And I know it's been consolidated to a few specific games, but it all counts the same. I'm just like, who cares? Now we're going to look back on it. He's going to have 1,600. rushing yards because I promise you he's going to get the ball shitload next week and 18 touchdowns.

And this is going to be yet another data point in the Hall of Fame career, rightfully so of Derek Henry. Man, he is 10th all time in career rushing yardage. And the next like five guys are not that far ahead of him. And like it's that's the, that is the fun crux with Derek Henry where like you get into trouble trying to project down the line with running backs, especially running backs that over the age of 30 with Lord knows how many carries on their odometer, 2,600 of them, but I'm not going to bet against Derek Henry.

And I mean, if you get four more, four is probably too many, but like at least three more years of comparable production out of Derek Henry, it's going to be wild to see where he winds up on all of these lists. And yeah, like I guess I knew that in the back of my mind, but getting a game like this in an island situation where everybody's watching it, It just really kind of hammered that home. And I agree with you, Robert. Like, I think sometimes you're prone to, you know,

the most recent thing is the best thing. And I'm not trying to stack Derek Henry up with any of the other greats. But he's just a, he's a one-of-one player between his size, his durability, his explosiveness, despite that, his longevity. What a, what a privilege to watch him do his thing. To dig into what that game felt like for the Ravens yesterday. And my, listen, the Packers run defense, when you run the ball straight downhill at them, you can move the ball on them consistently.

But this was a bludgeoning. I mean, just an absolute bludgeoning. And the way that Matt LaFleur was talking about it, I think in the moment and then even when asked about it today, it was kind of bewildering to him. It's like, I can't believe they just did that to us yesterday. And if it felt that bad in the moment, I promise you it was. The Ravens last night had 25 runs of five plus yards. That is the most in a single game.

game this season by any team. There have only been five games where a team had 20. The Ravens had 25. And watching the way they were doing it, Derek, it almost felt like disrespectful. What they were doing for most of the game is that Patrick Ricard was lining up in the eye and they were just running like lead zone plays over and over and over again. I was watching the game back over again this morning and I'm like, man, it seems like they're just in a lot of like straight eye formation looks.

looked at the next gen numbers, 31 carries out of eye formation looks for the Ravens yesterday. That is 10 more than any team has had in a game this season. The previous high was 21. They had 31 of them. On those plays, 185 yards, 6 yards per carry, 55% offensive success rate, 0.31 EPA per rush. Drake May is at 0.22 this season.

And honestly, if anything, them getting so boiled down with it being like we're doing this one thing and we are going to grind you down five and six yards at a time. We talked about coming into the week. I could have seen the world where the Ravens run game won them this game. I thought it would be they would rip off like five 30 yard runs. And they hit a couple of those, of course. But I thought it would be like them getting chunks and that would be it. They had not really proven at any point since like maybe week one or two that they could grind teams down like this five and six yards at a time. And when we've talked about the Ravens' run game struggles at multiple points this season, I've had the issue of

like it just doesn't feel like they have a staple run. And for them to have a game where they came out and ran basically the same thing, like 30 times and just consistently prove that we are better than you, we can move you. And this is one of the most movable forces in the league, granted. But for the fact that they could prove that they could do that, they will potentially see a couple of these defenses in the playoffs that they should be able to move if they meet them. And so for them to prove that they could do it, I thought was actually them hitting this gear, I do think, was pretty nice for them. There were two elements of this that felt a little bit out of character in the way that last night went.

One, the Ravens offensive line just hasn't been beating people up front for most of this year. And if you look at the way that yesterday went, you saw that consistently. I thought Andrew Voorhees was fantastic at the point of attack yesterday on so many of these runs. He's given one-on-one blocks or just like in combinations where he's the, the guy that's having to overtake the first level player, I thought he had some really nice moments in the run game yesterday. Linderbaum was really good getting to the second level consistently throughout this game. And so the fact that the interior of the offensive line played maybe their best game of the entire season,

I think that contributes to this. And on the other side, again, out of character, the Packers' D.Bs had no interest in tackling Derek Henry during this game yesterday. Just absolutely no interest. and it was everybody. I mean, there was a rundown in the red zone where McKinney kind of like walks into it and takes a huge shot.

There was a Keaton Mitchell play for 15 on a cupback where Keishon Nixon just looks completely lost. And so you have a team that had been a really good tackling team all season that just got absolutely steamrolled yesterday by an offensive line that has struggled to steamroll people for almost this entire year. And I think it makes perfect sense to mention, obviously, the Packers are missing Micah Parsons and the effect that that has on everything.

But in addition to that, Robert, I mean, plenty of other pieces of that Packers front were on hand and playing in this game. Tamante Wyatt is the other one, right? So it's no Parsons, no Wyatt. That's not enough to look like this. It's not enough, considering the resources that the Packers have put into their front over the last four or five years, it shouldn't be enough to give up one of two 300-yard rushing performances

on the season. It's them and the Falcons in that Berlin game against the Colts. And so, yeah, I mean, it sucks that Micah Parsons is out. And you're right, Devante Wyatt as well. But there should be more than enough here to be regular bad and not exceptional bad as they were. The Raven is also incredible on fourth down in this game. They went 10 to 14 on third down with a backup quarterback,

which is just excruciating. way to lose if you're the Packers. A little bit of silver lining for the Packers. I know everyone was talking about this last night, but I kind of feel like you have to talk about it. Malik Willis is going to be a starter next year for somebody, right? He's at least going to compete. He's at least going to compete for a job.

What is his contract going to look like? That, to me, becomes the fascinating question. What did Fields get, like 20 million? So Fields got two years 40. And so, but do you feel like we've, I mean, how many passes is the league was throwing the last two years? That seems like a lot of money

for a guy who's never been a starter for more than like two games in a row. He shouldn't realistically get more than like what made, what did Daniel Jones get? Like 13, 14. One year 15 million. Yeah, 14.

But I almost feel like the Fields contract like throws things into whack a little bit. Where if you have like more than one bidder, can he get like a multi-year contract that does start with $20 million dollars a year? I don't think that's, crazy because I think there should be a couple different teams that are in the market for his services. If I was the dolphins, I would absolutely be calling him. If I were the Colts and I'm

worried about Jones's health and I need a low price option that I think can just run the offense. I do think for several different teams this off season, he will be worth a phone call. Who loves to sign Packer players more than anybody else and could maybe use a quarterback? the Minnesota Vikings. Oh, that would be funny. That would be so funny. I do at some point I want to see Kevin O'Connell with someone who can move around a little bit like that,

but I don't know if that would happen. I mean, he looks awesome. I'm excited to see what he can do if he gets an opportunity. I don't have an opinion. I'm curious for your thoughts. Like, do you think somebody would offer Malik Willis just like, hey, here's the contract. You step into the building and you're,

our guy. Or would it be more like, we're going to draft a guy or we've already got a guy on the roster. Like, we will give you a shot to be the starting quarterback. I can't decide where I come down on that. I don't know if a handful of nice starts is enough to give a guy that level of opportunity. I think it depends on how desperate you are, right? Like, are you in a position where you just need some sort of option? Like, I think Miami is kind of like that, where it's like, we just needs somebody who's not going to cost a lot of money who can be a starting level quarterback for us. If you're another team with somebody already in the building, maybe you just don't outright say that he's the starter. But I think the contract is going to tell you everything that it needs to.

If you're going to pay him $20 million a year, I think that says we believe this guy is going to come in and potentially be our starting quarterback. And maybe I'm just getting lost in the sauce here after like two games. But the way that he has played when given opportunities over the last couple seasons, I don't think it's crazy to think he deserves that sort of chance. I think back to the, was it, yeah, I guess it must have been last year. The Colts game that he won for them in like September of last season. Like every time he's gotten a shot, he's done something with it. And I tend to agree with that, but I wonder what the size of the deal would be.

It's, yeah, it's going to be an interesting spot. And to play into my brand shamelessly, I'll just bring up more LSU, quarterbacks. It was hard for me not to think about Matt Flynn last night watching that. I was like, ah, we're doing it again. An LSU guy or Malik Willis did not go to LSU, but you get my point. A Packer quarterback doing something with his chance for sure. What did the Packers trade for Malik Willis? Like a seventh round pick, I think. Yeah. So it was a 2025 seventh round pick. They're going to get a third round compick for him if they don't spend in free agency. Yep.

that's pretty insane. That's insane. Listen, betting on talented guys and trying to poach them from teams that have moved on from them for understandable reasons, but not reasons that a guy should just be completely discarded. Right? Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to do this revisionist history thing where I look at the Titans trading away Malik Willis and drafting Will Levis and being like, oh, yeah, the Titans really mishandled this. They probably did to an extent. But I can also understand why they did what they did in the moment. but the Packers deserve a lot of credit for understanding why that guy was available, that he's really talented, and then if we spend enough time developing him in our system, he can become something real for us

and maybe for somebody else if he ends up hitting free agency. And it seems like that's kind of what's happened. All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break. The Steelers lost to the Browns today, 13 to 6, in a game where if they had beaten the Browns, who have not won many football games this year, the Steelers would have won the AFC, North. Not a lot of

confusion or ambiguity here. Steelers. What the fuck? I don't like them and I don't respect them. Like that game plan, the way that they handled that. Not honorable, was it, Derek? It was so dishonorable. I like just, listen, I get it. You know,

it really did feel like everybody on that field was thinking about the Miles Garrett thing a little bit too much. Like, it, like, I just, I was irritated with the way that they one that were with the way that they play that game listen if the if the if the Steelers were like six and 10 and they didn't want to be the team that's going to give it up fine if you win this game you're you're in like you're in the play like you can beat the Browns I just thought that this game was very frustrating from their part I this is one of those moments where I don't think

we should galaxy brand this I don't think sometimes you're just not good right like I don't even know of them focused too hard on the Miles Garrett thing but also Also, like, the Steelers offense just, I'm not surprised to see them play a game like this in terms of having no answers and the way that they wanted to play against this Browns team. Their plan offensively, attention to Garrett aside, the way that they approached this game and the game plan that they had, they had 22 plays today out of empty. The Steelers did. 22 plays. It's all like, let's get the ball out and like, let's move. But that's just kind of what they are, isn't it?

a little bit, but I do feel like over the last month or so, they've had stretches where they've got a little bit more under center and done a little bit more to move Rogers outside of the pocket and get some of these deep plays. And I know they had one that they hit that got called back, but like, you should have more than one that I can

remember. I think it's really where I land with that. I mean, just so many stretches in this game. So those 22 plays out of empty, by the way, two yards per play, 22% offensive success rate on those 22 plays. negative 0.57 EPA per play. And when you watch them,

there were stretches in this game where they were just lining up and empty for entire series and just throwing three incompletions and punting. And a lot of those incompletions are just slot fades against man coverage. Against cover one in this game per next gen stats,

Rogers finishes 3 of 11 for 6 yards. He finished 2 of 10 on throws of 10 plus air yards. We're throwing fourth and one go balls to Scotty Miller in this game. The entire What is happening? The entire game plan

felt like go ball after half a second in the pocket or throw the like check down or screen to the backer tight in that just chipped Garrett because there was a lot of that too. Like that was, that felt like everything.

It was the most like final game of like Aaron Rogers as a Packer type of thing that we have seen in a long time because it did feel like over the last month that they had, that's still kind of the core of the offense, but it at least felt like they had worked in some other elements

that that didn't have to be all that it was. And so, and again, I know they're missing some of their guys today, like, DK. Metcalf doesn't play and all that stuff. But, like, they were still incredibly frustrating in this game. And, like, to give some credit to the Brown's defense, I do think the rest of the front played pretty well. And then also, I thought Tyson Campbell actually had a really good game.

Like, he had three or four, like huge breakups on throws that I think could have been completed if he didn't make really good plays on them. So this is not too absolve. the Browns defense of like any credit here. I just, I did not love the way that the Pittsburgh Sewell's offense approach this game. The Browns deserves some credit. I mean, I love Denzel Ward after the game being like, you're going to test me like three times in a row in like one-on-one situations with the game on the line.

I could understand feeling insulted after that unfolds if you're Denzel Ward. The Steelers had absolutely nothing, no answers to the Brown's offense over the course of this game or to the Brown's defense over the course of this game. And so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the Steve's, can have a game like this, considering some of the limitations that they've had on that side of the ball, but for them to come up this short

with essentially the division and a trip to the playoffs on the line, it's kind of shocking. Like I just cannot believe they had this game in this moment, but maybe I should be able to believe that considering how this season has gone. I do think, and I mean, you all touched on it,

not having D.K. And then also losing Darnel Washington during the course of this game to a broken arm I mean, this is already not an inspiring pass catcher group. That is worth saying, it still felt so uninspired and uncreative. And like, okay, so if Adam Thielen, Scotty Miller and MVS are what you're working with, are 50-50 balls just is damning 50-50 balls the answer to working around that? I don't think that's true.

I don't think that's correct. that's exactly where I land. Like, yes, you're short-handed, given the past catchers that you're working with. There is still a better plan. This was the Devante Adams from last year and D.K. Meccaf from this year, game plan without either of those players. And then you realize that part of the reason for that is that's just the Aaron Rogers game plan now. Like, that's what the offense has to be.

And today is one of those days where you feel the limitations of that. one other thing I wanted to note, and I don't think this will surprise anybody. Rogers had the second fastest time to throw in the league for the week, only trailing by a tenth, like by a hundredth of a second, Philip Rivers. But one of the few plays where he held the ball and danced around back there for too long was a third and 14 when the Steelers were in field goal range and he got sacked. which bumped them into, it made it a 54-yard kick, which Chris Boswell then missed.

Like the one time that you're not just trying to get rid of the ball is where you can't take a sack because it's going to screw your kicker. Just phenomenal. My favorite part of that sequence was actually the play that happened before the sack because it was one of two times in this game where in field goal range, on first or second down, the Steelers had a completion that went for negative four yards or less.

They did that twice. They had a negative six-yard completion on a field goal drive in the first half and then the play before that sack that you're talking about, they flip one to John Hussmith in the left flat behind the line of scrimmage and he loses four yards. So we had two completions for a combined negative 10 yards

in this game combined with all of the incompletions that we had from the Steelers. Just a disgusting game. Just truly a disgusting game and disgusting performance on offense. And D.K. won't be back for the Ravens game, right? Oh, that's right.

I think it's, yeah, it was two games. That's something to look forward to. Speaking of gross, let's get to our next one here. The NFC South will come down to a week 18 game between the dolphins, or excuse me, between the Buccaneers and the Panthers, in part because the Seahawks or the Panthers lost today, which I'm not going to shit on the Panthers for losing to the Seahawks. Like the Seahawks are a better team than the Panthers. The Bucks being what they are right now.

is just depressing. Like, it's just depressing to watch. It's depressing to sit in, like, what this version of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is, considering, again, like, the season is, like, hanging in the balance here, and you're losing to this Dolphins team and getting outplayed in the process.

Like, it just, I don't know what else to say about the Bucks at this point, but the fact that next week, if the Bucks win, we will have an eight and nine winner of the NFC South. What the fuck? It just wasn't supposed to be like this in this division this year.

They lost to a Quinn Ewers led dolphins team where the two leading receivers were tied in Greg Dulcich who had 58 yards and Theo Weiss Jr. who had one catch that was a 63-yarder where the bucks just kind of got caught. That was what you lost to. That to me is where it gets just like completely inexcusable. I saw a dolphin streaking toward the. the in zone and rushed to go catch up on what had happened and saw that it was Theo Weiss Jr.

And it's just, it's a tough, it's a tough place, but specifically for the Bucks. I mean, yeah, like the Panthers, whatever, you lose to one of the best teams in the NFL and a couple other things go your way. Maybe that doesn't get out of hand. But the Buccaneers, it's just, it's just sad, man. Like the defense, the defense being what it is, I think. think is more damning than the offense because like you can point to the injury issues. I like clearly, I don't know, something happened to Baker.

Baker's clearly in a similar situation to the end of his time in Cleveland where I think he's playing through something because you just don't lose it as drastically as he has in such a short span. But the deal, I mean, this is this is Todd Bull's calling card and you're going against a rookie making his second start. and he finished 11th in EPA per dropback for the week. Like, Quinn Ewers played a really good game against the Todd Bulls defense in a,

I mean, they clearly don't have to win this game because you're still playing for the division next week. But like with the two months that the Bucks have had, how was this the performance? How did that happen? I think there are two different things that point out just in like how this game goes the way that it goes. The Bucks finished this game with 16 carries for 53 yards.

there are run games inability to do anything right now leads to how inconsistent and volatile the offense feels because again we talked about this so much that was the secret sauce last year is that there were so many easy yards within this offense because of what the run game and the screen game could provide and those things are just gone right now

and I think that's a combination of injuries along the offensive line but also just the individual offensive linemen not playing as well as they played last year. And so you're dealing with that, you have a 38% offensive success rate running the ball in this game. The dolphins run the ball 30 times for 145 yards at a 50% rate. So you felt that over the course of the game.

And Derek, I don't know how you felt, but I think some of it is, Baker probably is not 100% healthy. But the entire passing game just looks kind of out of sorts right now. And I think this game today was a really bad matchup for a team that feels like that because Anthony Weaver can put you in a blender. And that's kind of how it felt. for the bucks in this game. Like any time they had something dialed up

where we're trying to run like mesh or some crossers into what we think is going to be a man coverage, the dolphins are in zone. Anytime, you know, both Baker picks, the first one that happens, the dolphins play like a funky version of cover two. You see Baker get happy feet in the pocket. He double clutches it multiple times before forcing a throw. The second Baker pick,

it's a late rotation where the down safety, the one he thinks is going to be the down safety, ends up running to the post. He never accounts. for him, throws an interception, and then you have multiple just self-inflicted wounds. There's an OPI to torpedo a drive, multiple just drive killing early penalties from the bucks in this game. So again, I just think we're at a place where I don't know how much new stuff there is to say

about why the bucks are in this place, but they just continue devolving further and further. Yeah, I think it is a little bit of everything. Like the offensive line is playing worse. And like with a lot of them not being able to run the ball, they're just not getting into down and distances. And then like you said, with the defensive coordinator, like Anthony Weaver, some of the guys that they've seen earlier this season, they can call more of their stuff that like that, like some of those funky rotations, some of those funky pressures that they throw on second and nines in a way that on second and four, they would never have been able

to call last year. And so I think that has been part of it for Baker. And I think Baker can be a very good quarterback when the looks are a little bit more vanilla and he can just rip it and trust it. I do think when you get him spinning and thinking a little bit, I think that he can, the longer he holds onto the ball in plays, I think can be an issue. I mean, the second interception he throws, he bails that to his right, throws that a little bit.

And then actually, I think that play also goes into him not being healthy. He under throws that ball by like five or 10 yards. I don't think a healthy baker under throws that ball. Like, I just, that to me feels like so much of their success early in the year was they were able to hit a lot of these downfield shots. And it does feel like lately they've been struggling a little bit more

with that because he just can't push it the way that I think he used to be able to do. And even that fumble in the red zone, that's another play where he has to pull the ball down and he's trying to escape to his left. And it just the entire offense and the quarterback specifically, you just feel the lack of confidence and just how not clearly he's seeing things right now. And I think that speaks to some of the systemic problems that the bucks are enduring. The one last point about the Panthers game, just I want to give some credit to the Seahawks. Like the fact that the Seahawks.

can have multiple turnovers in this game. The offense can feel a little bit inconsistent, and they can still walk to a 17-point win. I just think it's a reminder of how resilience they are just because they can beat you in so many ways. Like the offense can have a game where they have a couple mistakes because the defense is so good

where you're giving up like 55 passing words over the course of the entire game, and it's enough for the offense to, be frustrating and a little bit up and down and for you to still win the game by three scores. Against a potential playoff team. That is what the Seahawks have been for large portions of this season. It can be imperfect on offense and it can end up not mattering

because of how good they are top to bottom. In a weird way, the Panthers offense feels like a good barometer for like, are you a great defense? Because I think if you have like a mid or getable defense in some ways, like Bryce Young is aggressive enough that he'll try some stuff. Tetaro and McMillan can probably beat your best corner. The offensive line is good enough that they can run on you. But when you are an elite defense like the Seattle Seahawks,

none of that stuff really flies. Like the interception on Bryce Young in the second half, it's honestly just base cover three, but they're flat player. I think it was Julian Love. He does an awesome job of Tetaroa McMillan's running like, it looks like a quick out. He kind of converts it up into like a little bit of a late wheel.

And Love just sees it and gets under. It flies. It's a little bit of like a late and outside throw, but he makes a great play on that. And then honestly, one of my other favorite plays in this game was with about 835 left in the second quarter. They try to run this like sweep, jet sweep

to the right hand side to Jimmy Horn. Nick Emin Worry destroys whoever that slot receiver trying to block was and they get a stuff on the play. Like them just, they just have guys at literally every single level of this defense that it's very sound and they play hard as shit. And that's kind of the, that's like the best formula for having an elite defense like this

and they proved it for like the 800 time this year. I would 100% agree about that. point where the Panthers are a good barometer for this. We're like, the Panthers can pick on defenses that are probably bottom half of the league defenses, but they're going to struggle against the defense that is this good. We talked about it coming in. Like, I thought it was going to be an ugly game. I thought the Panthers would need to probably hold the Seahawks to like 17 points or fewer

to win the game. They just turn the ball over deep in their own territory too many times for that to happen. Like, just tank Lawrence and that causing that fumble and just like seemingly returning it for a touchdown in real time. Like, what is surprising about that moment? Like absolutely nothing. It's just like that's what the Seahawks defense is. Okay, but I do want to say this.

And I mean, I don't think anybody's particularly shocked that the Seahawks outclassed the Panthers over the course of 60 minutes and they won this game fairly comfortably. But we're talking about the NFC South right now. I will take the Panthers team that played in this game to kick the buck's ass next week. I would 100% agree. Absolutely. The bucks are not exacted. Yeah, if we get similar performances, like if something doesn't magically flip here for Tampa Bay, the Panthers, even in that game, are such a better team.

Like, the Panthers defense, I thought, played such an inspired effort in this game. I mean, the stuff they were able to do to get takeaways and make Sam Darnold uncomfortable, the back-in guys had their moments. Ironically, J.C. Horn's face mask kind of just took whatever. chance the Panthers had there that sort of helped the Seahawks drive and put the game away, but this unit is going to make life hell on the bucks if the bucks

try to play the way we saw today. Like I just look, the bucks are favored because the game is in Tampa, but watching these two teams over the last couple weeks, I'm like, no, no shot, dude. The Panthers are in such a better place. I'm with you. They just have so much more fight

right now. Like you watch them play and it just feels so different than what the bucks are. It just overall, it just wasn't supposed to be like this this season in the NFC South. We weren't supposed to have like an 8-9 winner in the NFC South for multiple different reasons. One, the Bucks were supposed to be a team that could potentially take the next step where they would go from being the by default winner of the NFC South to a team that, okay, can they really be a player in the NFC race overall? And that just hasn't happened.

And then you combine that with the fact that the Falcons were like a team with playoff aspirations coming into the year and they completely cratered. And now we're back in a place where the NFC South winner feels like arguably the most forgettable playoff team we're going to have in the field. And I just don't think that was supposed to be the story about this division this year. But that's exactly where we've landed yet again. For all my efforts to will it into being a more interesting division, we're back here again. All right.

Let's talk about a few moments that made us feel romantic. about football in week 17. I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty. Derek, what made you feel romantic about football this weekend? My, the most alive I probably felt the entire day was a play that got called back by Cam Ward. It was a fourth and ten. It was around the two minutes. They were down eight points.

They're driving to try to go and tie this game. He escapes like three or four tackles in the pocket. And he's like, gets finally to the line of scrimmage. He's stumbling a little bit. He realizes he's not going to be able to scramble and run for this first down. And he like turns as he's falling down and whips like a little swing route to the left hand side. And it ends up being called back like his foot is down, blah, blah, well, or his knee is down, all that stuff. But in the moment, I like my lungs collapsed.

Like I gasped. That was the most like, oh my God, I can't believe a player did that in that moment. Like a young player, first year player, it was just like, we said going into the week like Titans Saints would have more to it than we thought. In that moment, I was like, that was the cherry on top. It was incredible. The entire Titan Saints game was arguably the best game of the early window. Yes.

Sure entertainment factor. Beginning to end. Yes. It delivered on everything I dreamed it could be. Tyler Shuck went 22 of 27 for 300 plus yards. I think I saw on social media during the late window that Tyler Shuck has more career 300-yard games than Drake May? Drake only has the one.

So actually I think that that might be true. Incredible. Incredible. That was, I mean, that was an amazing moment. Cam had the throw to D.K. earlier in the game,

too, but those two touchdown was crazy. He's going to be good. This team sucks, but that guy's going to be good. Amazing game. We'll talk about this as we wrap up the show, but just the way that the saints feel right now

and the way that the saints have felt over the, the last few weeks with the way the Tyler Shuck is playing and the life that they've shown. It's just not a place. I don't think we expected to be with the Saints by the time the season wrapped up. And I think there's a lot to be excited about with this team and this quarterback and the way that he is playing as we wrap up the season. Speaking of young quarterbacks, I know it was against the Jets. When you have essentially a perfect football game as a quarterback, it's hard not to feel romantic about that. And that's what Drake May did today.

Drake May against the Jets today finishes 19 of 21 1.28 EPA per dropback for Drake May in this game 1.28 with an 83% success rate. Those are both the highest in any single game

in this season and by a decent margin. And again, I know it's the Jets, but you go look at some of the plays he was making against free runners, beating them with his arm, like this touchdown throw, dropping the arm angle and fitting it into this space, just the amount of playmaking we see from him in a week to week basis, whether he's navigating the pocket,

whether he's making plays with his legs, every throw is available to him. And I don't know what's going to happen with the MVP award. We're going to talk about it over the next couple weeks. There are enough guys, Matthew Stafford notably, with a really good case that I kind of want to sit with it. and think about it before we start declaring who isn't or is not the MVP. But the fact that Drake May has had such an MVP-worthy season in a year where Matthew

Stafford is doing this for the best offense in the league speaks to what Drake May has been able to do. And I think the closest comparison I can make just when it comes to a guy that was not immediately good, right? Like not immediately. Drake May was good last year, giving the circumstances, but was not immediately like, oh, this is one of the best quarterbacks in the league. and then how quickly into this season I felt that way,

this to me is watching Josh Allen in 2020, where it was like, okay, I needed like five games for me to decide like he's probably one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL. And I don't think it's crazy to think that with a season that he's had, Drake May has done that for himself in the same way that Josh Allen did during that 2020 season. It's just at no point felt like a lie or like a trick or like there's something he needs to fill in.

and like he'll still find some ways to get better and all that jazz. But like it really does feel like he has every single thing in his bag, both from like a floor perspective and a ceiling perspective. And then you say it at the top, oh, it's against the Jets. You can say that when a player has like a normal good game against the bad defense. When they have like the one of the most efficient and productive games of like the decade, that could be against the college team at that point. Like that is hard to do.

Like I just he's he's amazing. And it's for him to like, again, have two, like, it might be the Jets games that get him the MVP case when you think about it specifically, but he's earned it with the way that he's played against those those teams. It's kind of like, his season is like how he plays within

a game where like, boring's not the right word, but he just makes everything look so routine. And the Patriots season has felt so routine. I mean, look at the bears. Like, look at the weekly adventure that the bears have been where poor Robert

over here has had like, four stress-free weekends out of 16. And then you look at the Patriots and they've played like, I mean, they've had their stressful games. Don't get me wrong, but it just feels like such a depart. Like it's just a different way to get to 11 or 12 wins where they just feel so in command, so in control. Like the two Bills games and the Steelers games were wild.

But for the most part, it just hasn't been this like up and down routine. They've just been steady eddy, which is so remarkable for a team with a second year quarterback. Dave, what made you feel romantic in week 17 of the NFL? Usually when a big man gets the football in the NFL in the NFL in major football, it's an accident, like it's an interception or a fumble or a kick return. Cody Ford had his moment on purpose. And this was, you are forgiven if you were not paying close attention to Bengals Carlin.

But in the middle of this game, the Cincinnati Bengals lined up Cody Ford out wide, out past the numbers. He said after the game that like during the course of the week, Joe Burrow just kept telling him to get wider. And he was like, I thought he was just telling me to get the hell out of the way of the play. And then Joe Burrow actually threw it to him. Cody Ford takes a short hitch and just rumbles downfield against the Arizona Cardinals. It was that type of day for Arizona. getting blown out this badly and such a forgettable game is a rough look. But it was not a rough look watching Cody Ford on his birthday, Rumble,

fighting off tacklers, getting down near the goal line. And I think my favorite part of that play was the cameras caught Joe. It's incredible. During the run after catch. And the way that his jaw just dropped and it just hung there for a solid like 10 or 15 seconds. Like, it's like if you have a pet, if, like, if you've ever seen your dog, like, walk on hind legs out of nowhere or something like that, just watching an animal do something it's not supposed to do, that's how Joe Burrow looked about his offensive linemen getting run after the catch against the Arizona Cardinals. It was very fun. I absolutely loved it.

And the Joe Burrow response and the Joe Burrow reaction was the best part of that entire sequence. But just a really impressive performance by the Bengals. and I think a moment that might feel like the end for the Cardinals. As much as we wanted to maybe talk ourselves into what sort of hope might come with, okay, well, with a different quarterback, what does this thing look like? And it was fun with Chobo Purset. But the fact that they've lost eight games in a row since installing him as the starter and they continue to just get blown out,

I know they're banged up on defense, but this is just not the end of the season that was necessary for you to be able to make a real argument for why this group should get another chance moving forward. I think that argument is getting harder and harder to make. Yeah, like they've been banged up, but they just haven't done enough

like around that to make you feel like they're doing enough to piece it together anyway. Like they've given up over like a 120 point differential over this stretch and say an inserted percent. And so they've had some nice offensive games, but it just they, it's all the wheels have fallen off in a way that has been pretty hard to reconcile with.

All right, before we get out of here, let's talk about what we learned in week 17. I think I've learned something today. What I learned in week 17 is that the vibes of the NFL are upside down. In the middle of the Eagles-Bills game, I was just thinking about what both of these fan bases should be feeling and what they probably are feeling about their teams right now. Win or lose. Whoever won that game, I don't think either the Bills or the Eagles fan bases

are coming out of that game feeling very good about where they are. And so you look at the Bills and the Eagles. there were seven teams coming into the year that had Super Bowl odds of 18 to 1 or better. Those seven teams were the Bills, the Eagles, the Ravens, the Chiefs, the Packers, the Lions, and the commanders, those seven teams. Which of those seven fan bases feels good today?

Like about where they are for real. None of them actually, probably. None. For the playoffs next week, do you think Ravens fans are content with how this season has gone? I don't think a single one of those seven fan bases is like, oh yeah, I would redo this season over again the exact way that it happened. That's the thing.

Like relative to where they started with the season, absolutely not. Maybe with the Ravens, you're like kind of happy they're alive in week 18 when maybe three weeks ago you thought they wouldn't be. You're not. You're not. Like I think you probably are a little bit. I mean, like maybe you're relieved, but like you're not happy.

That's okay. That's a good point. Yes. This was not supposed to be how it was. for Baltimore. Maybe if you smash the Steelers to get into the playoffs, you can talk yourself into something. But, I mean, Baltimore was like the team.

They were the trendy pick to reach the Super Bowl from the AFC side of the bracket. And it took a minor miracle to have them still alive in week 18. You can't say you're happy with that. Okay. So that's the preseason expectations. Even in-season vacillations, this season have just been insane.

We just talked about the Saints. The fact that the Saints are like riding high right now after what their early season stretch look like and what we expected from that team coming into the year, that's insane. The Colts had the best vibes of any team in the NFL for the first half of the season. Shane Steichen felt like the coach of the year.

Jonathan Taylor had a case's offensive player of the year. It was all sunshine and rainbows and we're trading for Sauce Gardner. They're going to miss the playoffs. even the teams that now are in incredible positions and have had just kind of magical seasons when you consider how this is gone, the Jags, the Texans to an extent,

the Bears, the Niners, every single one of those four teams, you can point to a moment in this season where it fell over. Yeah, like the night. The Niners game against the Bucks. When Warner gets hurt, they get blown out by the Bucs.

you have the bear the bears maybe not like the bears got destroyed in week two against the lions but that pre that stretch before the by the bears are not playing good football have the rams had a moment the rams have not that i'm talking about more of these teams that have kind of like come back yeah the rams and the seahawks that those are kind of in their own category but so many of these teams that have double digit wins i don't think the broncos have either like there are a few teams that are kind of an exception to this but the jags the texans the bears and the niners i think all of them have had moments where it just like, oh man, that was fun, but I just don't think we got it this year.

The Jags had theirs against the Rams in Vegas, and then the Texans had theirs against the Seahawks on that Monday night. And all of those teams are of double-digit wins and feel like at least legitimate playoff teams as we get to the end of the year. It's the entire thing is just upside down, whether it's preseason expectations or how we have felt about these teams in individual moments of the season. like 11 of the 14

playoff participants have had a moment where it felt over. Even the Cardinals who we just talked about when they did the whole like, you know, move Jacoby Resed into the lineup and all that stuff and they had a couple of good games with him that were like close. Yeah, they beat Dallas. Yeah, it was like, oh, this might be fun.

They might have a little something there. And then they've gone like zero and eight since then have like completely fallen apart in a way. And then the Saints are going to be like the quietest. If they win next week, the Saints will be seven to 10. And I think given the way that we've talked about the Saints and how other than on the hangover show

we've talked about the Saints, like for them to get to seven wins would be like, okay, there's a little bit more to this roster than maybe it felt like. If the Saints beat the Falcons next week and the Panthers beat the Bucks, the Saints will finish second in the NFC South,

which you're so right. And I'm not like I'm not just highlighting this because that's where I'm from. But I do think it's fun. If you go back and listen to our shows from August or just if you follow NFL media talk, podcasting, whatever, going back to that time, damn near every team in the league,

you could come up with a reason why people were optimistic. Like Jackson Dart had people excited about the Giants even before he got the starting job. And when we had a moment where we were like, oh, maybe the jets will build the wing tea with Justin Fields as the guy running it. And that'll be fun. The New Orleans Saints, it was just like, no,

they're going to suck. They don't have a quarterback. And it's just a waiting game until they, pick in the top three and get their quarterback. And to be where they are now, having won four games in a row, it's freaking cool. And like they're not going to make the playoffs. They're not going to finish with a winning record. But it's, yeah, it deserves to be highlighted what they've done this year.

The fact that Saints fans are feeling great as 95% of the league's fan bases just want the season to end, I think tells you everything you need to know about how the season has gone. It's been a weird, weird year, and I cannot wait for what the final month of that is going to look like because of how weird it's been. And we're going to dig into all of that here over the next few weeks. For now, that is all we've got. A little something different for the hangover tomorrow,

Derek and I are going to kind of do a little bit of a post-mortem on some of those teams that did have playoff aspirations coming into the year and fell a little bit short. Teams like the Chiefs, the Lions, the Vikings, the Falcons. So that's what the hangover is going to be tomorrow. we're going to kind of sit with what this season has looked like for some of those teams. But other than that, we're going to be on somewhat of a holiday schedule this year, this week, but still plenty of shows coming your way.

So just be on the lookout for it all. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.