The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 17 recap: With the playoffs around the corner, the Vikings make a statement

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

Every serious Super Bowl contender picks up a signature win at some point of the regular season. The Vikings may have already had one, but they certainly got one on Sunday. That's where Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen begin the Week 17 recap episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys also discuss the Commanders clinching a playoff berth, the Bengals (and Dolphins) staying alive in the AFC Wild Card race, the Colts falling out of the picture, the Jekyll and Hyde Rams, Saquon Barkley hitting the 2K mark, Brock Bowers breaking all the records, and more.RundownVikings make a statement with win over PackersThe fascinating Cincinnati BengalsThe Commanders secure a playoff berth, and the Bucs take control of the NFC SouthThe Jekyll and Hyde RamsColts eliminated from playoff contention by Drew Lock and the GiantsThe Patriots move to the top of the 2025 draft boardSaquon Barkley hits the 2,000-yard markThe Jets are the saddest team of 2024Brock Bowers headlines a great day for rookiesThe Chargers plan came togetherHost: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Great show for you guys on tap today. A long week 17 in the NFL, but an action-packed week 17 in the NFL. Kick things off with me and Derek Klass talking about a monster win for the Minnesota Vikings and potentially a scope-altering win for the Minnesota Vikings. You could talk me into some Sam Donald right now. You can talk me into the way that the Vikings are playing and what their ceiling may look like this year.

Also chatted about a big win for the Bengals and just the narrative that's kind of risen up around this team and what they may look like moving forward. Chatted about a big win for Washington in a phenomenal Sunday night football game against the Falcons. Discussed some weird moments from the Rams and Colts in this week's edition of WTF and then hit a few more important things about draft order, the playoff picture, and everything else from week 17. So let's dig into all of that with Derek Klesson right now. Join to me tonight. It's my co-ist Derek, Derek, how you doing, man? Doing good. It was kind of like a disorienting Sunday because we had so many of the games taken away

on Wednesday and Thursday. We had a triple header on Saturday. So it just felt like a bizarre, like the pacing of today just felt really off. There are a lot fewer games. So there were only six games in the earliest slate and only two games in the late slate. That was the weirdest part. two games in the afternoon slate was weird. And one of them was a game that might as well have not happened.

I mean, that Brown's Dolphins game, we will not be talking about that game. Shocker, even though it does matter for the dolphins in the AFC playoff race, which I'm assuming will touch on in some capacity. It was a weird day because the noon slate was awful. I mean, there was just nothing of consequence really happening in that noon slate, except for a Giants game that we will discuss. Of consequence in ways both good and bad for the two teams involved in that game. But thankfully, in both the afternoon,

window and the late window, we got some games that are very much worth discussing. And then we're going to talk about some of the things that happened on Saturday as well, because I don't think we'd be able to properly fill the show if we didn't hit on a couple of the Saturday games. Let's start with what we had as the game of the week. It was really the only game we dug into in depth on the week 17 preview, I'm calling it. And that is the Packers and the Vikings. The Vikings get a big win over the Green Bay Packers. This ends 27 to 25, some aesthetic improving touchdowns for the Packers late in this game, but this was one-sided for a majority of this one. And I think the Falcons, excuse me, I think the Vikings, it's a little bit of a statement

in my mind in terms of what they're capable of. You look back at their wins, and obviously they were red hot early in the season. They were jumping out to these huge leads over teams. They beat the Packers that way the first time around, but Jordan Love was banged up in that game, still early in the year. This to me is their best and most impressive win in quite a while. And I think in some ways could reframe the way that we're going to have to consider this team as we get toward the playoffs. It's their best win since, I mean, yeah, probably they had played some pretty decent teams in the early stretch of the season, like you said, but then they lost to the Lions and then they lost to the Rams. And since then they hadn't played that many

great teams for them to go and take a Packers team that to me is still even after this loss, like a top five, six, seven team in the NFL, like I still think they're one of the better teams in the NFL. For them to take it to them the way that they did for three and a half quarters, really, until Jordan Love kind of went crazy in the fourth quarter a little bit was, was incredibly impressive. I just thought their game plan on both sides of the ball was really impressive. Defensively, and I know you and I were talking about this a little bit in the, you know, again, the quote preview that we only looked at one game. We previewed that. That was a preview. Yeah, that was the one game we actually previewed.

We talked about like the best way to handle this Packers offense is to be able to play man coverage and to be able to play it a lot. You saw it really early in this game. They were on all of the critical downs. Third and fourth downs. All right, we're just going to man everybody up. We're not going to think about it. 85% of third and fourth downs for the game. And it was 100% for a good chunk of the game. 85% man coverage on third and fourth down for the Vikings over four quarters. And I would imagine the, you know, 15% are like one of the, in the very fourth quarter when they were like playing preventish defense. Like, exactly. That's probably all it was. But for the most part, they were just playing straight man to man coverage. And I had some questions about whether they would be able to do that and how much they

would be able to do that? Because again, I do think it is the best way to handle a Packers receiving core that won, even with all of their guys, we've talked about it for it just doesn't have a true man-to-man beater. They don't have like a true number one star. They were also missing Christian Watson, who, again, he's not like a one-on-one man-beater in the sense that like, you know, Ladd-McConkey or like Picoe-Dell-Becum or whatever. But he is their fastest player, and he would have at least stretched the field a little bit and forced him to respect some things. So he's out of the game. I still didn't know if the Vikings had the dudes and had the willingness to play as much man as they did,

but they were just gloved everything up today. It was truly impressive. The Christian Watson missing it, I think is worth pointing out because the last time the Vikings, the last time the Packers played against a really good team that plays a ton of man coverage, it was against the Lions a few weeks ago. And think back to that game. The ways that they won that game were running the ball with Josh Jacobs, and they had that one huge chunk play to Christian Watson on a goal ball.

All the crossers that they were trying to run, that was that game where we were just in awe of the way that the Lions were playing man coverage against this Packers team. So not having a guy that you really think is a matchup advantage in those one-on-one situations. We saw that. And I think we saw some more holes with the Packers roster that are worth digging into. But I want to talk about the man coverage approach from Minnesota because not only is it against type for the Vikings, sort of. You know, they've had a couple games this year where they've really been able to crank it up. They've been playing more man coverage recently.

And that Arizona game is the game where they played over half the sense. maps. They were on track to outpace the amount of man coverage they played in this game compared to that Arizona game before throttling it back a little bit. I think it makes sense for two different reasons. One, it's a curveball that they're not expecting. And Matt LaFleur even came out and said that after the game. Matt Schneiderman, who covers the Packers for us back in LaFleur's press conference, he essentially said, we got off to a slow start because we weren't ready for them to play that much man coverage. And that is where the Packers have struggled this year. According to Next Gen stats, 38 qualified quarterbacks, Jordan Love is three.

34th among 38 guys in EPA for dropback against man coverage this year. So it was a great curveball that they might not have been expecting. And it's the right way to play against this Packers team. And people might forget this at this point. This is who Brian Flores is in his DNA. He's a Patriots guy when he was with the, with the dolphins. This is a lot of what they did. They were one of the best man coverage teams.

When he got to Minnesota, he was like, whoof, I do not have the guys for this. But now he's at least now that he's, you know, solidified the rest of what this new defense has been. He started to work this back in a little bit. And I again, I thought this was a really good day. And then even the one time the Packers early on did beat Man Coverage, it's on the fourth and two, Jaden Reed wins inside on a slant. Love throws it a little bit low. It's like it reads knees, but it's a very catchable ball. He just drops it and doesn't make the play. So like the one time the Packers were even able to get by it, they still leave some yards on the field. That was actually the other thing to me, like even beyond some of the man coverage stuff or even beyond some of the game plan stuff,

the Packers left so much on the field, especially in the first half. I thought Jacob on the first drive, they're driving to midfield. Jacobs has a fumble and they give up the ball there. I think the drive after that, they like drive down a little bit. And instead of going for a fourth and three on the four, they end up, they just end up kicking the field goal, taking the three points, which it's super early in the game. So I kind of get it. You have the other drive where I just said Jaden Grie drops the fourth and two. You had like a phantom off sides on the defense on a.

a Minnesota field goal that misses, but then they get to retry it and they make it. So like, Green Bay, one, we're losing in the scheme matchup. And then two, just so many young and boneheaded mistakes kind of just, you know, left them scrambling. The last thing I want to say about the man coverage thing, I think pointing out that that's how Flores wants to live, I think that's a great point to make. And he and I had a conversation this offseason, just discussing why they did what they did on defense last year and then what the next phase of this might look like.

And I think over the course of last season, they got banged up a little bit. But they also realized how much air was being left in the coverage when they're playing this cover zero or cover two sort of approach, which is really what they were doing for most of last year. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I have to assume they finished at the bottom of the league in man coverage rates for the entire season. So they get out, they go out and get Stefan Gilmore. They go out and get Shaq Griffin. And even if those guys are a little bit longer in the tooth, I think they believe they could play more man with the guys they had on the roster this year. and that they might have to as a way to combat some of the issues they saw down the stretch last year. Well, for the first half of the season, they really didn't have to tap into it.

They were playing the same way they did last year, but they had better players, and the pass rush was more devastating. So there was really no reason to pivot. Well, as teams started figuring out, all right, this is how we want to attack this team when they were still leaving that much error in the coverage, being able to transition to a place where we can live in a little bit more man and we're comfortable playing that way, that's a really important club in the bag

for this Vikings team to have as they get into the playoffs and they have to start playing against the best offenses in the league. So being able to transition and kind of click into that mode, that's really, really important. And it's not like they're moonlighting in this and they struggle to do it and they don't want to do it very often. The Vikings this year are number one in the league

in paper dropback when playing man coverage. I would not have guessed that. Some of that is small sample, just that they don't do it a ton, but they've shown an ability to do it when they want to. And if you look at some of the ways they're passing stuff off today, they're playing to some two-man against a quarterback who doesn't love to scramble, which I think makes a lot of sense.

It's not like, oh, we're going to do this super weird thing that we're not used to and we're going to look uncomfortable doing it. I actually think they've shown a really smooth ability to kind of play in both of these worlds. And I think that bodes well for what they may have to do when they're playing against top five top 10 offenses all the way through the playoffs. Absolutely. Like that's what the playoffs are about. It's having more pitches and being able to go to different answers when you need to

and being able to access everything so that other teams don't have a jump on you. And this like transition to a little bit more man coverage, especially from last year, but even from earlier this season, sometimes that can be borne out of necessity. Like we've seen Vance Joseph's defenses before start in like zone type stuff. And then by the end of the season, they're like, dude, our players just suck. Like we're just going to man everybody up. And we're just going to hope that we can run. with people, it's simpler. That's not the case with what Minnesota is doing. Minnesota, it's more

like a luxury. Like, they're so good at the other stuff. And they've realized that they are a team that I think they probably think they can go win the Super Bowl. So it's like, all right, let's test how much this we can get away with to make sure we're ready for when we need it in the conference championship game or whatever it is. Them picking at the fact that Packers don't really have a guy that can separate consistently against man. I think that's how they expose one of the weaknesses that this Packers team has on offense. On defense, even if this Packers team was doing a lot of funky stuff over the last five, six weeks, that they were playing like a top 10 defense when you look at the

metrics. And I was excited about a lot of the things that they were doing. When you look at the personnel, there are still some holes here. Even the guys who maybe are ascending players that you can get excited about the next two, three, four years, they're very young. And if you look at the game plan Minnesota had on offense, same sort of deal. We know that these are the two, three guys that we feel. good about attacking over and over and over again, and that's just what we're going to do.

They destroyed Green Bay in the middle of the field in this game. And so Javon Bollard had missed the past couple of games, who was their rookie defensive back, who when they were playing the way that they wanted to, you know, kind of after the first six weeks or so of the season, I can't remember the exact time the transition happened, but they moved him into the slot and away from a deep safety position. Well, right now, Jaira Alexander is still not playing, and Evan Williams, their other rookie safety is hurt. So they had Javon Bullard playing back in the back half again today as a deep safety.

And the Vikings were just picking on him over and over and over again. You combine that with the issues that they have at linebacker in coverage. Edron Cooper is a fun player moving toward the quarterback. It's not there moving backward quite yet. And I think that's really was at the root of what the Vikings wanted to do on offense today is we're just going to hit these daggers and breakers over and over and over again because we don't think you're going to have an answer for it. and the Packers didn't. Yeah, they just never did.

I thought all of that was really good. They passed protected really well. I think what we're seeing on kind of both sides of the ball with the Packers is, I think we really like the structure of it. I think we like what we've seen from some of the ascending young players. This is a starless roster, like especially on defense. Like, Rishon Gary was supposed to be that, but it's kind of been a down year for him. Jari Alexander can be that when he's healthy.

He's not been healthy for a lot of the season. And after that, you just don't have that. many stars on this defense. You don't have on either side of the ball a guy that makes the coordinator on the other side go, man, I think we have to play a little bit differently this week. They just don't have anybody who does that. Like on offense, like we talked about, they don't have a needle moving pass catcher that makes you want to play coverage differently or anything like that. And then on the defensive side, it's not like they have a corner where we're like, man, we have to throw away from him or a post safety we are terrified of all the time. And Xavier McKinney's really good,

but I don't think he's like quite to that level. I don't know. It's just, I think they struggle in some sense of just finding what their fastball is sometimes because they just don't have a single player who can tilt the field for them. It's such a great observation because as we're thinking about the ceiling of this Packers team and a lot of the reasons for excitement over the last couple years were, man, look at all the contributions they're getting from these young cheap pieces. And that's great.

But when you get to this point in the season and you're having to play against playoff caliber teams, teams that want to win Super Bowls, you have to play against teams with Justin Jefferson. That's what you're having to play against. And I think that gap was obvious for me today between some of the high-end pieces and even the high-end pieces between the two teams and then the defined weaknesses between the two teams. I think that the Packers have fewer of the high-end pieces and more of the defined weaknesses.

And I think both of those were on display today. I was looking at the numbers when you were talking. I'm just curious about Darnold where he was throwing the ball in this game. in between the numbers today, 23 of 27 for 289 yards. So pretty decent day for the Vikings wanting to attack the middle of the field. That is preposterous, by the way. Like, that is almost impossible. And I thought that the past protection, that the pressure numbers, I think are a little bit juiced up in this.

I actually think that's what I felt. I looked at them too and I was like, I didn't feel like he was getting hit that much. Down to down. And the pressure numbers, obviously, it's a place. tracking and it's a GPS. There are times where you watch the game, it doesn't necessarily feel like that. I thought that the past protection from Minnesota was actually very good. But even when it wasn't, his pocket movement has been so good recently.

And the last thing I want to say about the Vikings is we're thinking about what this team is capable of. I think we're at a place where this team can win the Super Bowl, that they have the juice and they have the gear to make that happen, especially in an NFC where we'll see what happens with Philly. They have some limitations. and Detroit is so banged up and there aren't that many other teams you're really scared of. I really do think that they're in a place where they can make that happen. And I think the most important transition that's happened with that is what we've gotten from Sam

Darnold. And this isn't just exposure to him over time allowing me to be like, oh, maybe he can't actually do this. There has been a marked shift in one specific area of this Vikings offense that I think is really important to keep in mind and why it feels a little bit more sustainable. why it feels a little bit more sturdy. In the first half of the year, Sam Darnold was, I think, second or third from the bottom in the NFL, weeks one through nine,

an EPA per dropback when pressured. And his pressure to sack rate was right in line with that. I think the only guy, I think, in the league that was getting or sacked on a higher percentage of his pressures, then Darnold in weeks one through nine was Deshaun Watson. If you look at what's happened in weeks 10 through 17, it's completely flipped. So he's gone from a bottom five quarterback when

pressured if you look at some of the rate stats to from weeks 10 through 17 the only quarterbacks full-time guys who have a higher EPA per dropback when pressure than Sam Garnold are Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen. The MVP's. One of them will win MVP. One of the guys who will win, the two guys that are the favorites to win the MVP award are the only guys, if you look at the efficiency metrics, that have been more valuable when pressure than Sam Donald.

And so him not taking as many sacks and him really kind of weaponizing the, that pocket mobility and making plays a little bit out of structure, that has become a defined positive for the Vikings offense when it had been a defined negative. And I think that that changes what they're capable of in the way that we should think about their ceiling. It's the sacks specifically for me, because that was kind of the biggest problem. Sam Donald under pressure in general was the biggest obstacle for me for taking this Vikings team like Super Bowl seriously. I still think when you pressure him, you can get some bad throws out of him. I mean, he had an interception in this game.

He tried to throw a couple of more. Like, he's still going to be a guy who, when he gets pressured, he's going to put the ball in harm's way. And depending on the day, that can cut the right way and it can cut the wrong way. But his ability, I think, to now not take as many sacks in those scenarios, whereas beforehand, like you said, first half of the season, he was taking sacks on like 26, 27, 28% of his dropbacks. It was a lot.

And now it's like considerably lower. 16%. It's a 10 percentage point drop and how many, the percentage of his pressures that are turning into sacks. And that's probably equates to about like one sack per game just in terms of like the, you know, pressure to sack ratio, how few times and stuff like that. That is a lot because if you look at sacks, sacks effectively will kill a drive. And that's because a lot of them do tend to be on second and twelfths or third and longs where you're already kind of in a bad spot. But sacks effectively kill drives most of the time. So if you're saying that the Vikings kind of

get a drive back a game now over the second half of the season because Sam Darnold just isn't taking a dumb sack. That's a huge, that goes a really long way when that one drive can at any time turn into a touchdown because you have Jordan Addison, Justin Jefferson, and T.J. Hawkinson, and also like a pro bowl level running back still. We talked a couple weeks ago about whether we thought Sam Donald would be back and whether he should be back based on the plan that the Vikings had laid out. And it really didn't have anything to do with Sam Donald. It was mostly that they had moved on from an expensive veteran quarterback to get onto a rookie quarterback timeline because of how they wanted to it to build the rest of the roster. They, with fervor tried to do it. Like, think about the pre-draft

machinations from Quasi to try to get into a spot where they could draft a quarterback and get onto this road. Well, now, I think that's over, man. That's seen in the locker room after the game, like, that is a guy who is, I think, is going to be on the Minnesota Vikings roster next year. They were carrying him around the locker room. Like, I just don't know how you move on from this. And it's going to be a little bit complicated in terms of the money and in terms of the decisions you now have to make, they have the financial flexibility to keep Sam Darnold. They'll just have, they'll be able to spend less in other areas of the roster while they're doing it. But I think this is a done deal, man.

Like, he's going to be back next year, whether it's on the tag or whether it's on some sort of creative extension. I just can't really imagine them moving on from him with the way that he is playing and the way that this team feels right now with him at the help. I think a month or a month and a half ago, it was like, all right, how did we just keeping Sam Darnold around and making this thing work? Now it's like how would you justify not keeping him around based on how well this has worked? And I think to me a lot of it what it comes down to is like kind of the decider here is if

JJ McCarthy was healthy and not coming off of a serious knee injury, I think you could still sell yourself on the idea that like, okay, well, nothing has gone wrong with McCarthy. It's just we were sitting him and we wanted a year. He got his year. Let's go insert him into the system. But now you have a guy who's already an unknown because he's a rookie and he's coming off of a serious knee injury. And you already have now proof of concept that a Sam Darnold led team with a team that should

get a lot of its major pieces back next year can win 13, 14, 15 games and go potentially be the number one seed in the NFC. It would be very, very hard to move on from that at this stage. Like, I just don't even see the argument for it. And I'll admit, I held against the Sam Darnold thing for a long time this season. But I think at this point he's certainly done enough to push me off of that. I just think that the intention behind the plan originally created a high bar that he would have to clear for them to say, oh yeah, we're going to spend market money on Sam Darnel. I don't know what that looks like.

I don't know if it's a markup on the Baker deal or what Gino's gotten or if it's even more than that. To me, if we're talking about like a Tua type contract where you're getting up into the 50 million range, the Jared Gough type contract, and especially with the structure, how quickly can you get out of it, how long are you going to be paying him that money? It's at least a conversation and what the money should look like, but they have the franchise tag in their back pocket. They have like $70 million in cap space next year. So they can do this and still build a roster around him. It's just going to look a little bit different than I might have anticipated giving the bones of the plan that they brought into this season.

Yeah, I mean, I think you nailed it. The way that all of this happened going into the season, it was an incredibly high bar he had to clear. winning this many games of potentially beating the lines for the one seed would be pretty comfortably over the bar, I think. They have like a top seven offense with it. I think they have comfortably cleared the bar. All right, before we get to you up by attention, let's take a quick break. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity.

Now you have my attention. I want to talk about the Cincinnati Bengals here. This goes beyond the performance they had on Saturday night against the Broncos. this is more about the response to that performance. I think that rightfully so, they have a guy who is playing at an MVP level of quarterback. This will be one of the best non- MVP seasons we've seen in the past decade from Joe Burrow. It kind of feels like some Drew Bree seasons we got along the way,

where he's throwing for 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns. It doesn't win the MVP. Or even like the 2012 season where they were pretty good. There are a lot of, the fact that Drew Breez never won the MVP award is incredible. It speaks to the competition around him. the time. I think you could probably say the same thing about what might happen with Joe Burrow this year. But even that dialogue after that game and people try to figure out ways for the Bengals to get in because of what their offense can look like. I don't even think the Bengals just have our

attention. I think they have the collective attention of the football watching public because it's easy to get fascinated by a quarterback playing this well and the idea of what their potential is. And there is still a chance for pretty good chance that they will not make the postseason even with their offense able to hit this sort of clip. I think there are a few reasons for this. And the more I've thought about it, one is like specific to the Bengals and one is really not at all. The first that's not specific to them. We all just want the wild card team that we think has like the highest ceiling on a given day to get in.

Of course. Because you want the upsets. And that's the team with the best quarterback. Right. And it's the team with the best quarterback. It's the team that we've seen score 40 some odd points on the other side. And like, so we always just want the team that we think, yeah, they can actually go up. set someone as opposed to like, not to bash the Steelers, but like, I don't think the Steelers

are going to bash anybody. And they're already in, but you know what I'm saying, just like that general idea of that type of team. The other thing that I do think is specific to the Bengals and kind of specific to the conference, there has become such a strong quarterback rivalry between like all of these guys at the top of the AFC. We love watching. Yeah, it's awesome.

We love watching Mahomes versus Burrough. Mahomes versus Lamar and Lamar versus Burrough. Josh Allen versus Mahomes, Josh Allen versus Joe Burr. Like, there's just so much of these, like, there are so many different variations of these incredible rivalries of truly like some of the best quarterbacks that I've seen in my lifetime, and they're all in the same conference where it's like the NFC doesn't have that. So I almost wonder if like the Bengals were in the NFC, would it even be as compelling for them to be like this team that we all feel like has to be in?

I think part of it is that like, yeah, you want to see Joe Burrow go play off against one of these amazing other young quarterbacks that he is constantly in these MVP. races for. So I think to me that's like ultimately like the the Bengals specific reason why they always have our attention like this. I think that's fair. Even if they were in the end, I want to see the bucks get in because of what their offense is capable of. I just, I think it's easy to talk yourself into exactly like you said, the one game potential of a team that has this sort of offense, which brings me to an interesting discussion. So after the game last night, T. Higgins has this monster game for the Bengals, right? He has 11 catches for one third.

one and three touchdowns. And Joe Burrow, like, the moment that they had after the game, where they kind of just like hog in, there's just like a real intensity to it. And I said something afterward, half jokingly, being like, if Joe Burrow wants him back, he should just get him back. Like, that should be Joe Burroughs prize for the way that he's played this year. And people are like, well, they can't afford him and da, da, da, da, da.

First of all, you can pay two receivers. The Eagles and the Dolphins just did it with Devante Smith and J.1 Waddle. If you are creative enough with the way that you use the cap, you could absolutely pay two receivers and still have enough money left to pay a top-end quarterback and build the rest of the roster. The problem is the Bengals aren't creative with the cap and they waited too long to do any of this with either of the receivers so they probably can't do it. And their team has been so bad at drafting that they need money to rebuild the defense. We've talked about this. In terms of cap spending, the Bengals have one of the most expensive defenses in the league and they have still been a garbage defense.

So I guess the more accurate thing I should have said. and talking about that moment last night and about T. Higgins' his future is, I don't want to be the guy who has to tell Joe Burrow, who has openly said that he wants T back, yeah, he's not coming back. We can't afford him. Even if intellectually, he probably understands why that has to happen and why they have to allocate the resources elsewhere. If at your job, you were the best person at your job,

and you had a team of like 11 guys, and they told you the third most important person on your team, we had to let him go because everyone else at the, company is incompetent and can't do their job, even if intellectually you understood why that was important, you'd be pissed. You would be really, really mad. And even if he doesn't have leverage to make it work and so many people are like, well, what's he going to do? Well, he's just going to be pissed off.

And he's the most important player in your organization. And the idea that you would just give him the middle finger when he has openly said that this is something that he wants, I would think about that. I think that there are going to be some quiet consequences to not doing. this even if it might be in the best long-term interest of your roster. The Cincinnati Bengals with a history of pissing off their star quarterback? That's weird. I've never heard of that before. But why I think it's particularly frustrating with the Bengals, too, and with Higgins, like, you saw this team in this trio in their first year together,

go to a Super Bowl. Like, why would you have not? I know, like you said, now at this point, they probably are a little bit too late to try to pay them and make it work. And there's still a chance if they really, really want to make it happen, but it would be difficult. But why were you not thinking about this a year, like a year ago or months ago? Like, why did it take this long for a roster that, again, you know what this trio is capable of. You know you've seen them get to AFC championship games, to Super Bowls and stuff like that. Why would you not try to make all of your roster moves, like two years in advance to try to go make sure that this happens? And I guess you can make the argument that they did because they spent so many resources on the defense, like so many draft

picks to try to build it up for this moment so that they could pay their receivers, but it all just hasn't worked out. But it's still very frustrating. I don't think they ever planned on paying him, even with that being part of the plan. Even before we, before we didn't know that these guys weren't going to hit. And I don't, Dax Hill got hurt this year, but let's just throw out all the highly drafted names, your Dax Hills, your DJ Turner's, your Chris Jenkins's, Miles Murphy, all the things that they did. Even two off seasons ago, when I was talking to people there about what this was going to look like, I think that there was some doubt about their ability. to make it work with T because of the money that he wanted.

But this is not some far-off possibility. Like an NFL team can have a $50 million quarterback, a $30 million receiver, and then pay a second receiver. It is possible. I remember having a conversation with David Hellman coming into the 2024 season, and it was on that kind of half-bake take show that we did. And I just floated out the idea that are we going to get to a place in a year where we look at the way the Bengals are willing to build their roster and the way that everyone else is,

and we just say they're not going to be able to compete. Like they're not equipped to compete with teams like the Eagles, like teams that are willing to be creative. And if you're not able to compete on that level, the bills and the way that they've spent cash, it doesn't really matter if you have Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase. Are you going to be dead in the water? And that's kind of what this feels like to me right now.

I do think that we've arrived in that moment. Because if you were one of those teams that was willing to be a little bit creative in how you move the money around, you could make this work if you wanted to. Unfortunately, they're not that sort of. of team. I do fully agree with that. I think what makes it complicated for me, too, is I think maybe two years ago,

they probably were like, ah, we're not going to pay him when we get to the end of this and we're just not going to deal with this. Higgins was good then. He's a much better player now. He gets banged up a lot. That's the only thing that would give me pause. He's hurt a lot, and I do think that is worth mentioning. But I still think offense wins championships.

Like, offense puts you in a position to win championships. having a top five offense puts you in that position. You can get lucky on defense. They did it already to get to the Super Bowl. Exactly. I would rather have a construction of a roster where I knew that I could have a top five offense every single year and I'd hopefully get lucky on defense. And there have been some people that are comparing this to Mahomes with Tyree Kill.

The Chiefs got five picks for Tyree Kill. They got a first round pick, a second round pick, and two fourth round picks, along with some other like change that they found in their back pocket. If you can get that for T. Higgins and you can use that to draft Isaiah or Tret McDuffy as part of this whole equation, great. They're going to let him walk for nothing. He's going to walk in free agency if they don't do anything about this. So it's a very different situation to me.

And I don't think it should be Joe Burroughs' fault that we've arrived here. No, it should be. The fact that he's going to lose his number two receiver after playing his best ball ever and taking strides that we haven't seen out of him, so stupid, man. I hate this bangle season so much. And they're still alive here because of what they did with the Broncos. The specifics I wanted to dig into just with the bang.

angles approach in this game. I thought they did a phenomenal job. If you look at Joe Burroughs passing chart, they just hammered the flat over and over and over again in this game. They were clearing out with verticals from the receivers. That's why Mike Isickie had 100 catches in this game. But that's really what they were trying to pick at. They were trying to pick at that and just the non-Patrick Sartan defensive backs on this Broncos team. And they're equipped to do that. When you have a number two receiver like T. Higgins, you are equipped to feed Jamar Chase to Patrick Sartan for 60 minutes. and just go elsewhere with every single time you throw the ball.

And that was more than enough to take advantage of this Broncos defense, which is still a pretty darn good unit. It is. Like, I'm glad you bring up the motion stuff. They did so much motion from just, we're going to take our number two or number three. We're going to shoot them out into the flat or we're going to have a guy across the formation, just shoot out into the flat. Most of it was just manner zone tell.

And then they would be like, okay, well, if they're playing zone, that guy should just be open in the flat. And if it was, he would just throw it to him there. And if they thought they got one-on-one's in coverage. Great job with that. They did. Chase in the slot all day to get little tells like that. I thought they were really, the thought process behind how we're going to get information

was really, really good from Cincinnati for most of this game. And when they got zoned, Joe Burrow did a really good job of finding who he needed to find. And when it was man, he said, all right, where's T. Higgins on Riley Moss? And listen, Riley Moss has had a really, really good season and he's been really important for this Denver defense. He got baptized by T. Higgins in this game. Like, it was rude what he was doing to him for a lot of this game. So I just thought it was from a game plan, it was like a perfect game plan scheme game from the Bengals.

And then also they were able to kick it into overdrive because the quarterback was playing at that level and their two receivers were playing at an incredibly high level. And then it almost doesn't matter because Bo Dix throws a 70 yard bomb to Morven Mims. Truly like one of the most impressive throws of the game of the year. I think it was the longest throw of the year. Like by area, it was the longest area of the year according to next gen. And it was a beautiful throw. And obviously he extends and makes that play to Mims to get this thing to overtime. And then that's when some of the curious decisions from Sean Payton started to creep in.

He ends up not going for two, which I can understand in the moment. I feel like when you're playing against Joe Burrow playing at that level all day, I might want to end the game there. But he knew that a tie was decent for him. And so they were willing to go to overtime and risk the chance of a tie. But then in overtime, the timeout usage and just the approach, on those drives from the Broncos in overtime, I still don't really understand what was happening. There was a second and eight where they called a screen. And I know they're a decent screen team,

but it's like, I don't think this is. Yeah, this felt like a little bit of like you're scared to to go win the game. Like, let's go try to win the game. And again, I know a tie is technically good for them, but when like you mentioned, Joe Burrow and T. Higgins are playing as well as they are on the other side, I'm not sure a tie is really on the table here. I think if you, give them enough chances those guys are going to go win the game. So I did think some of their decision making there was weird. And then, yeah, it was just kind of a bizarre game on their half from Sean Payton. It was like they thought too much about the tie being in play for them. And they kind of just let the Bengals have too many chances, which you can't give Burrow and

to Higgins and Chase that many chances. It shouldn't have even mattered because Chase Brown tries to go down and make the right play inside the five. That was crazy. Catches his leg in the grass, gets hurt and then the Bengals have to use a timeout rather than ending the game. So instead of running out the clock, they score because people were hemming and holling about this, what was the right decision? Should they have just counted it down and kick the field goal? Essentially, you're giving them 30 seconds with no timeouts up a field goal or you're up a touchdown with they have one timeout and there's like a minute and 10 seconds to go.

It's probably six of one, half dozen than the other. They were not in a good position the moment that they were, the Broncos were allowed leave that situation with the timeout in the way that they were. I think the only thing that I came away, like, mildly worried about Cincinnati in this game. And again, even if they get in, I still don't think they're actually a team that's going to, like, make this run and get to the conference championship game. But their inability to run the ball, you could really feel it in this game. Like, they are still not a team where they can get under center when they want to or be like a short yardage team. They had a failed, they had a failed like third and two and then fourth and one on the first drive of the game.

they were struggling to run in the red zone. So, but, you know, when your quarterback and your two receivers are that good, it's enough to patch over that enough. But I do think it would matter against, like, the really good teams at the end of the road here. Yeah, it's funny. They got Orlando Brown back in this game, but that meant kicking Cody Ford inside the guard. That also did. He got abused. Yeah.

The never-ending search for a workable left guard for the Cincinnati Bengals has endured for the majority of the Joe Burrow, Jemar Chase era, and it is not over yet. So where this has left us in the AFC playoff race, the Broncos are still in with a win over the Chiefs in Week 18, the Chiefs who will be playing their backups in that game, or a loss from either the Dolphins or the Bengals. And that is the funniest part about this whole thing, is there's been so much attention paid to Cincinnati and what they need to get in, etc.

There are two teams that if they won out, they would get in over the Bengals. It was the Colts and it was the Dolphins. Well, the Colts are out of it. So we're going to talk about that in a second. Oh, yeah, we are. But the dolphins are still in it. The dolphins play the Jets next week.

So even if the Broncos and somehow lose to the Chiefs backups, if the dolphins win, they are still in the playoffs over the Bengals, which would be just the perfect way for this Bengals season to end. If the Broncos somehow lose, you beat the Steelers in week 18 and you still don't get into the playoffs. To a Dolphins team in that scenario, like let's even say you get the Miracle. where the Broncos lose to the chief backups, but then the dolphins win. For it to be the dolphins, nobody cares about the dolphins. That's what I'm saying earlier about. Like, there's no, none of the quarterback rivalry stuff holds up. We don't feel like their ceiling is as high as the Bengals.

Like, we want this Bengals team, whereas the dolphins is kind of just like, we'll see if it happens. But they actually have the much easier road because they get to play a Jets team that, even Soss Gardner today. We'll talk about them in a second, actually. I'll save all that. Well, hopefully, hopefully the Bronfell. Donkos can beat Carson Wentz and none of this will matter for Denver because if it does, my goodness, is that going to be a tough week? Let's stick with other playoff specific stuff that happened on Sunday.

Washington wins an OT thriller over the Falcons 30 to 24. That puts Washington into the playoffs. The Washington football team and Jaden Daniels. You guys have our attention pretty firmly. They were, this game was kind of, uh, the first half was weird. The first half, like, in general, I think for both sides of the ball was very weird. And like Daniels has a pretty uncharacteristic interception that he throws early in the game. And I thought why it felt weird particularly for Washington's offense.

Atlanta was throwing a lot of really good creepers and simulated pressures at Jane Daniels and at the Washington offensive line. And they were not picking it up for a majority of the game. A lot of what they were doing was they would line up, I think it was Caden Ellis, like on one side. they would force the slide over there, and then they would drop him out and fire somebody to the other side where you're just kind of creating a free runner in the lane. So they pick off Jaden Daniels doing that in the red zone. So like they were moving the ball down there and they intercept him doing that.

It's a beautiful defensive play. That's one of those plays where it goes down as an interception for Jaden Daniels, but that's exactly how you draw up that play. He never sees Kaden Ellis. Sometimes the defense just wins. And that was one of the moments where the defense just won. Yeah. Sometimes the defense, you know, draw something up on the chalkboard and they've just got the right call.

And sometimes you just win and you catch a really smart quarterback with a really good call. And they were like, hey, and the Falcons were like, okay, well, that call worked. Let's keep going to it. And they kept going to that like same style of pressure where they're putting Ellis on one side, forcing the slide, firing the other side. There was a play later in the game where Atlanta goes to that same type of pressure. And Washington's like, ah, ha, ha, we see what you're doing here. We're not going to protect this the same way. So they actually slide away from Ellis and try to give more protection to where the backers get the new, you know, blitzers going to come from.

They pick it up technically, like in terms of on the chalkboard. The left guard still loses anyway. And Benix gets pressure. Daniels gets pressured. So like for the first half, a lot of what they were doing, they were just losing up on that front. And then in the second half, they just Washington ran the hell out of the football and took all of that pressure stuff pretty much off the board for them. It was a great, great, great approach by Washington. second half. They just bled out the game.

So they have two huge drives. I mean, I think dozen to 15 play drives. They were 15 and 16 plays, I think. 15 and 16 plays. Just taking a ton of time off the clock. And Atlanta comes out and their first drive of the half, they go three and out. Atlanta had like a 68% rushing success rate

in the first half. And then they came out in the second half. They decided they were done running the ball. And Washington said, all this simulated pressure stuff. And we're just going to run the ball over and over and over again, including with the quarterback. And his legs today end up carrying this game for Washington, both on design runs and scrambles. He was absolutely devastating.

And I think I've gotten to a place where when I think about quarterbacks, it's is the guy on the other side, the guy that you're playing against, how many times is he going to make you want to rage quit this game? How many times do you think you have the right stuff dialed up and it just doesn't matter? And I don't think that Jaden Daniels is nearly as a passer to the place where, a Omar or a Josh Allen Mahomes. He's a rookie. His game is limited. But what he is able to do to squirm out of some of these situations, the amount of times that Washington has forked downs where his ability to be a runner ends up becoming huge for them and extending drives, he's already one of those guys that if I were a defensive coordinator, he would have just destroyed my will to live over the course of this game. And I think that says a lot about a guy

that's 17 weeks into his career. All of those third and longs and fourth downs, over the course of the season, let alone just in this game, are just like super burned into all of our memories. Like his ability to just get out of those jams is truly incredible. Or if it's fourth and short or whatever, you can just go to it as a design run.

And like they even threw a touchdown. Or not a P.O. like they have for the touchdown on the fourth and two. That's exactly what I was going to say. They do a little like a zone read slide where they're running like a flat route and then a corner over it. The cornerback trying to defend it kind of get stuck playing the smash.

where he's like, do I go to the flat? Do I go to the corner above me? He tries to float up for the corner. Daniels actually makes a really smart ball placement decision of being like, okay, if he's floating up to play the corner high, I'm going to throw it kind of low end behind this corner, make him come back to the ball. And it's a great ball. It's a great catch and stuff like that. So his legs did carry it. I think what Daniels is kind of doing for me in the sense of like, I think when you look at quarterbacks, I like to think about, okay, what are the things they're great at and what do they leave off the table in terms of like design and scheme of the offense? how do you weigh that and like which one is more valuable? I think coming into the season,

I was more worried that Jaden Daniels is all of his sack taking, his up and down ability to want to trigger over the middle of the field. I thought that was going to be a lot more inhibitive to his game than it has been. But I watch him now and it's like, all right, he's already a top three runner in the league. He's getting like a little bit better at managing the pocketing him if I still think it's not his best trait. It's still his biggest weakness I think by far. But it's not as detrimental as I thought it might be. Like, you're still getting enough of the highs on it. He's still a really good deep passer, which is obviously very, very good for getting these

explosives and stuff. And then his quick game gives such a high floor to the passing offense that even if I still think there's these other holes, I think what he does well carries more than I thought it would coming in. And what he does not do as well right now doesn't hurt him as much as I thought it might. I'm right there with you. I think his ball placement on the quick game. It's phenomenal.

Especially in the red zone. His ball placement in the red zone is just phenomenal. It's so many. It's very thoughtful in the way that he does it. I think that's exactly right. And the precision that he's played with in that area of the field, I think, is so impressive. And his ability just to kind of wriggle out of these situations, him as a runner, it's so funny because he's so slight. But he's always getting two or three more yards than he should.

And some of that is running through tackles, but just the ability to like never take out. I mean, he got destroyed. droid inside the five today as he was spinning. But I think that his ability to always get tackled like half of his body and carry a guy for two, three yards. The amount of like six or seven yard runs he had in this game that make it second and spore or second and three, it's huge for this offense. That's the way that they want to operate.

And his ability to consistently get them in positive downs and distances and consistently put positive plays together over the course of these drives, it's just so impressive. I still think that the pocket management stuff is where the ceiling will be determined. Yes. Because when you watch a guy like Lamar, right? Like that's why Lamar is able to play like the best player in the NFL. It goes from exciting to absolutely devastating because of the way that he can manage that space. That is elite quarterbacking.

That's what elite quarterbacking feels like. How are you going to slide and reset and make throws from that space specifically? And I think that is the last question or the biggest question that still has to be answered about him. But even if that's still a relative weakness, everything else is such a strength that he's able to carry the offense still, even with some minor holes still left in his game. And again, he's 17 weeks in his career. Right. That's the thing. He's allowed to have minor holes.

Exactly. Like it's just the highs and the good stuff is so much more. Like I think coming in, I thought he would be a good deep pastor. I thought he would be good in quick game. I thought he would be like a really good runner, but he's even like leveled up on top of all of that from what I thought. And the fact that all of that is so good, even if he does still have all these other holes, it's like, I don't know, he's still as a rookie like a top half NFL quarterback. And if that's the starting point, well done, Washington. Well done.

On the other side, two frustrating elements of this game for Atlanta. You have timeouts. Dude. Use your timeouts. The decision to not take a timeout after the Mooney reception was mind-blowing. It's insane. You have two. Yes.

And if you had one, maybe I can understand you want to save it. You have two timeouts. There is absolutely no reason to let 20 seconds take off the clock there. And then they get the PI later in the drive. They have to kick the field goal because they're out of time. It's brutal. And then the first half. And but even at the end, they could have won the game.

and they missed the field goal by leaving it short. You know how you could have gotten a few extra yards? If you had left more time on the clock, used your time out and had one or two more plays to throw a eight yard out to go and get the yards that you need. Like, it was just, like, I don't know if he forgot that he didn't have them. He thought they could roll over to next week. Like, it was just a baffling use of non-use of timeouts.

He gets them in overtime. You get four timeouts in overtime. Yeah, you get four or five in overtime, exactly. What did you think of Michael Panics in just the performance from Atlanta's offense in this? game. Obviously, they ran the shit out of the ball for the first half and probably should have done it more in the second half. But what did you think of the passing game and what they asked him to do today? I thought he struggled a lot more today than he did last week. I do think obviously him having to

drive at the end, especially for a rookie when you really want these moments in high leverage situation. So for him to have the drive at the end where he makes the throw to Kyle Pitts absolutely rips that thing, puts it on his chest, lets him go get that. I thought that was really impressive. And he is a confident pastor. And I think you saw some of that. I think you also saw some of that kind of hurt him in the sense of he threw his receivers into hospital balls multiple times in this game where he's just throwing them straight into hits. He does not have that Jaden Daniels's ability to kind of throw his guy a little bit away from coverage, you know, and try to keep the precision in that intermediate area of the field and underneath is a very, it's a gap between them. It's a really good thing to point out. The precision and

the timing, it's just a little bit different. And then I think the other thing I really noticed in this game that stuck out to me with Pennix in college, and he didn't see it as much or it didn't crop up as an issue in his first start, but really did in this game. He's a really good line drive thrower and can like throw a dig route route on your chest. If you need touch outside the numbers, throwing a corner route, throwing an out route, even some of these pure vertical shots, he just does not have that right now. Like it's just to me it's like, because he has such a low trajectory when the ball comes out, it's just hard to get that up and over the way that you want, whereas you watch a guy like Tom Brady or Josh Allen, they have such a high release.

It's easier for them to get the arc they want. He just doesn't because of the way that he throws. I think you saw five or six times in this game where it's an open touch route type of throw. And he just sails it five yards over because just the trajectory is so low and tight that his margin for error to miss is very, very difficult to work with. It's such an important observation in trying to figure out where the layers and levels to this are. because one of the, I mean, in the first half, again, they ran the ball and that's really how they moved it. But he had a throw in an outbreaker to Drake London from the far hash in the first half that he, it was a 25-yard throw.

It's like, oh, my God. But he can put that thing on a line. And when you see him have to feather a throw over a flat defender on a corner route, he sales those consistently. And so trying to figure out, all right, he could throw the shit out of the ball. But what does that actually mean in some of these more specific? situations, I think that's a really, really good distinction to point out. Yeah, and I think it's like, it's just moving forward, there are ways where you can, you can just build the entire plane out of dig routes and these 12 yard out routes and

some of these go balls. Like, there's a world where you can make it work, but it is probably, unless that gets fixed, going to be more limiting than a guy like, again, Daniels, who on the other side, you watch him, even if I still think, you know, Daniels, I would like to see him trigger more over the middle of the field or whatever. I'm very confident that he has every club in his bag just in terms of like a ball placement and accuracy. Whereas with Pennix right now, I just don't think that that's the case. And why this is especially important is he's not going to be a runner.

I know that he's a good athlete, but he is not going to scramble. The first two sacks he took in this game were against two men, where they're playing man underneath, cover two behind it because they're not afraid of him scrambling. And I think teams are going to consistently do that against them because he's just not a threat with his legs. It's not how he wants to play. if you're not going to add that, you have to be an elite thrower of the football and you have to have all the clubs in your back. Like the name I kept coming back to you because I think that's what this Falcon staff wants him to be eventually is Matthew Stafford. Matthew Stafford has some of the best touch in the NFL on the throws that we're talking about.

So if you don't have every single one of those throws as part of your repertoire, you're going to have to add things in other areas and that's just not the type of quarterback that he is. This is, again, it's very, very early. But this is something that will have to happen for him to reach the ceiling just based on the archetype of quarterback that we're talking about. Yeah, this was always going to take, I think, a little bit of time with him. The last thing I'll say, too, I think he is a decent athlete, but he has like kind of the Ryan Tannahill affliction where it's like, he is a decent athlete and he can move. You just have to coax him into it and he doesn't ever want to do it. I thought that the lying games from Washington in this game loved it. Loved how dynamic the past rush plan felt even when they were bringing four.

I mean, they had, and I think it really speaks to the way that this Atlanta team wants to be built. They don't want to be sitting there on third and seven when you can play two man and run all these games against them. That's not what their offensive line is. There was some bullshit holding calls in this game. But even if you throw those out, that's still not the way that this Washington team or Atlanta team wants to be set up. They were one of seven on their first seven third downs because that's just not what they're equipped to do with this line. And I think that in those defined passing situations, you saw, we're just going to run all these games and we're going to get after you because we just, our athletes are better than yours up front. And I think that that showed up in really important moments for Washington in the second half.

Last thing to mention here, Washington is in. Congratulations to Washington, which one of the biggest surprises of the entire season. Atlanta is now chasing the Bucks in the NFC South. The Bucks win the NFC South with a win over the Saints in week 18. so the Falcons no longer control their destiny, which is a tough place to land, considering how within reach this game felt for the Falcons. All right.

Let's get to the other side of the coin and the bad stuff that happened today. It's time for what the fuck. What the fuck? They won the game, but I would like to talk about the Los Angeles Rams because they almost didn't win the game. They needed a throw off of a helmet

and an interception in the end zone to beat the Arizona Cardinals last night. And it was funny because I was having a conversation, about this game with somebody yesterday afternoon. And I said, doesn't this just feel like one of those games where the Rams play a confounding 60 minutes of football and somehow lose to Arizona and then have to beat the Seahawks next week? They almost did that. They almost made me right about that. They managed to squeak by. But at the end of all of this, even winning the game, I am left with a central question about the Rams. This isn't even a WTF about the game itself. It's a

WTF about the Rams. The Los Angeles Rams, what the fuck are you? Like, you can blow out the Vikings and then you do this the last two weeks against that Jets team and against this Cardinals team that cannot pass protect in any important situation based on the front that you have. I just do not know what to make of this team. They feel so, so inconsistent. And their vacillations, even from like drive to drive, just seems so drastic that I don't know what to make. of them, even if they are pretty much in, they are in the playoffs right now. They are, they made it based on what Washington did. They beat the bills. This team beat the bills at like, and they're struggling to now two weeks in a row where they almost lose to the Jets and play a weird game against

them. And now they have this game against the Cardinals who have their season's over. Like, because they played so well for so long in the season, this doesn't feel like a Cardinals team that's quit or anything. So it's not like a free win, but their season's over. You should be able to to go and handle business against the Cardinals. So for them to play that they would, the way that they did was incredibly frustrating. I think there's a few reasons why they feel frustrating. And we can talk about some of what actually happens on the field.

But the first part of it is like because they've had so much shuffling with the injuries, especially on the offense, and you've had so many young pieces on the defense. It just doesn't feel like either side has ever really coalesced, like had the time and just the games and snaps together to coalesce into one thing where you feel like, okay, They've played this way for nine weeks now together. This is what they feel like.

Just haven't really had that. And I think that's been part of it. And then on the field, they're just not as explosive as you think that they are. Like when you think of Matthew Stafford and Sean McVeigh and Pooka and Kouye, you're like, man, they've got to just be running it up on people and getting all these 20, 25-yard plays. As a rushing offense, they're the second least explosive running team in the league. Only the Raiders are worse than the Raiders have like a historically bad run game. They've like three runs of 20 plus yard.

on the season. It's, it's bad. Like, like, Kyron Williams, his vision and his strength, you know, for his size is awesome. Really good at getting you eight yards. Not so good at getting you 18 or 28. And so that's kind of the issue to have there. It's a slow offense. They want to grind you down. They have one of the highest success rates in the league, but they are not explosive because they just don't really have explosive players. They have good football players. Like, the offense is filled with good football players, but they are not explosive guys. And you know what? What's funny is it actually feels very similar to the way that the chiefs have played offense this year, where it's, we're going to run the hell out of the ball. It's not very explosive, but it's very high success rate,

and we're going to bank on our quarterback bailing us out on third down and all this stuff. In theory, Matthew Stafford can do that, and he has at times before for this team. One, I don't think he's doing it at, obviously he's not doing it as well as Patrick Mahomes because nobody does. Like, Patrick Mahomes always shifts the math when you try to play like this, but I think even Matthew Stafford is not playing quite up to the level that Matthew Stafford could be in those scenarios. Like, I think there used to be, in my mind, a ratio of like you get 80% of really good Matthew Stafford plays and then 20% of the time or 20% of drives, games, whatever, he's like, all right,

you just didn't want to show up today. Whereas I think we're getting more of like a 65, 35 split. And when you're playing with these margins where you're not as explosive as you think that you are, especially in the run game, it's just kind of hard to live that way when you're making it so hard on yourself. You have to be consistent. You just can't have mistakes because you have to string these drives together. together. And it's a great thing to point out about Stafford because if I were filling out an MVP ballot last year, and I don't get one, so I didn't fill one out. He would have been in the top three or four. I mean, he would have been very high up on the list. He played phenomenal football for a huge majority of last year. That has not happened this year because that ratio has been just, it has felt different, exactly like you said. And we're talking about, again, drive to drive. There was a stretch in this game where he layered that throw over the flat defender to Cooper Cup. And

then I believe on the same drive or the next drive, he throws a ball to Puka on an inbreaker against cover two where he whizzes it past the linebacker's ear 30 yards in the air. It was an absolute missile and they get like a 25, 30 yard chunk play. He is still capable of that. And then there are going to be plays where he's checking it down for no reason. They're going to be plays where he has the high, low, but for whatever reason he wants to get the ball out of his hands. He's tried to throw multiple interceptions in the end zone in this game.

just the inconsistency and the swings between the really high-end Matthew Stafford plays and the low-end Matthew Stafford plays, I think that characterization where it used to be 85-15 or 80-20 and now it's 65-35-60-40, that to me is a reason why this offense feels the way that it does. And there's just been a fragility up front, right? Christian Derisaw is not playing for the Vikings right now. You don't really notice it. Maybe if you're really watching closely, you see the difference. between him and a Cam Robinson. The Rams switching out Rob Havenstein, who's not as good as Christian Darrasaw, for Joe Noopoom, you feel it the whole game.

He had three holding calls. He gave up multiple pressures. And when you're having to string together these drives for long stretches of time, because you're not explosive, you feel every single mistake that gets made. And I think this offense is just making too many of them right now. And I think even, I don't remember which game it was, but that first game where they got all of their interior guys back, the ones that they wanted. And they still looked like shit.

They couldn't block anything up because it again, goes back to the point of like, they just have not been able to have the guys that they want up front there. And if we're at a stage with Matthew Stafford where I think for the past handful of years, he's been a guy who isn't very mobile and he is going to stay in the pocket. I think as he continues to get older, that is especially true. And so if you're going to have these issues protecting up front, yeah, you're going to add a lot more inherent volatility to a quarterback that if you throw that in the mix can it can can start to cause you some problems even for as good as I think he is.

On the other side of the ball, the Cardinals, some really high-end moments from Trey McBride in this game, some really nice splashes from Marvin Harrison in this game. I thought they ran the ball pretty efficiently when they wanted to. This is one of those games that, I think we say this too often where it's like they need to run the ball more. And then you look at the actual game flow. It's like, yeah, how many more opportunities would they really have had? I think the Cardinals need to run the ball more in this game because when they were doing it,

Michael Carter was really efficient. the problem was they were getting into some of these down and distant situations, whether it was penalties, whatever, and they just cannot hold up in pass protection. They can't hold up in past protection when they're healthy. And now you've got two backup tackles, multiple backup into your offensive linemen. And this team against the Blitz is a disaster. And you saw that throughout this entire game. I looked at the numbers because I was like, man, what does this look like over the course of the season? on third down, if you remove scrambles, right?

So just throwing the ball on third down, the only quarterback with a lower success rate when blitz this year, then Kyler Murray is Deshaun Watson. It's always Deshawn Watson on the bottom of these stats, which really, that tells you. The only quarterbacks do have a lower EPA, total EPA when blitz this season, are Aaron Rogers and Deshawn Watson. This has been a defined weakness of this Arizona team when they can't play the way that they want. When they can't be in heavy personnel using play action on early downs, you really see the weaknesses on this team. And I think they would tell you it's offensive line personnel. If we get

better offensive line personnel, you won't see as much of that. But I think that there's probably more at play here. And that probably is going to require some self-reflection this offseason about where this team needs to get better. Yeah, I think it's a little bit of everything. Like, Kyler has never been a great blitz replacement quarterback. Like, that's just not what he is. He's either, he's either going to like hold the ball too long and take a shot and try to beat it over the top, kind of like Jordan Love or something, or he's going to scramble or he's going to, you know, kind of throw the ball into coverage and like he's just not a very consistent player against the Blitz. And then I think you add on top of the fact that I think when they had in mind the idea for this

offense to get more under center, to run more, to try to incorporate more play action, it was partly to insulate Kyler Murray and give him some more easier plays. It was also to insulate an offensive line that they knew was going to take years to rebuild. And so to your point, when they get into these third and sevens, they've got like one and a half good players to hold up in those scenarios. And when that's what you're working with, especially against some of these defenses and pass rushers in their own division, let alone the rest of the conference,

yeah, you start to get into these situations where you're throwing volatility onto a quarterback that can be pretty volatile, especially in blitz scenarios. The last thing I'll say, and this is a dumb point, but I'm going to make it anyway. this was the game one of the first times in a while where I was watching it. I was like, Kyler feels small. Yeah.

He felt small in this game. Like an inability to work through traffic, you know, trying to escape out of the back of the pocket because it was the only place that he had any sort of escape plan. I felt like that doesn't happen all the time. He's able to overcome that more often than not. But this is one of those games where I think his physical limitations were really on display, even when you account for some of the personnel, the efficiencies that this team has. And this is why I think with Kyler Murray, you always have to have a jump ball winner and you need to be able to run the ball. And the reason for that is I think all of his, this applies to all short quarterbacks. When you get into the red zone, I think it gets even

tougher to see because everything is so much more condensed and it gets so much cloudier. And so if you are 510 and you're struggling to see over all these guys and everything is so much more condensed and cluttered and you don't have space to guess, you kind of just need some other outlets and other ways to get the offense to be able to score. Having, you know, back in the day, it was DeAndre Hopkins to just be a jump ball guy. And then they were always able to run the ball really well. I don't think, I think in this game, they struggle to access the running or at least like they should have leaned on it a little bit more to your point. And then they don't have like a true dominant jump ball player right now. Like Michael Wilson's solid at it and Marvin Harrison Jr. is solid at it, but probably

not as good as he was billed. So I think that's kind of the issue with the offense right now and like their build. Let's get to the other disappointing performance from this week. The Indianapolis Colts give up 45 points to the New York Giants with their playoff hopes theoretically on the line. Colts, what the fuck? I am so angry at this team. More than any of these other teams that might miss the playoffs, like there are reasons

you can be pissed off at the dolphins if they miss. or at the Bengals and like all of these other teams, you know, the Jets for their collapse over the entire season, which we'll talk about. But the Colts, what they've done, where they had a Broncos game that if they won, they would have positioned themselves to have a better than 50% chance to get in to go into that game and have Jonathan Taylor drop a ball at the one yard line. They have the weird, you know, throw to A.D. Mitchell, he throws it back, pick six, all that stuff. Yeah, I don't want to, it's just not the fumble. It's a lot of test play from the entire offense in the second half. We need to bring that up as often as we can. And then the defense in this

game, to give up that many points to Drew Locke? Are you kidding me? Like, this is just a team that had their playoff yards after the catch. How many? 181. Oh my good Lord, man. Like, for a team that had their playoff hopes in their hands, they controlled their destiny with other than the Broncos game, a relatively easy schedule here, a very easy schedule. They just looked not perfect. prepared for the moment. Like, it just looked like the coaching staff was too young. The team was too young. Like, they just didn't look ready to take their season by the horns. And that to me is the most frustrating part of it. I just can't believe what their defense did. And just the third longs, they were consistently giving up throughout this entire game. The third and 14, where they

throw the screen to neighbors and he just bolts for eight yards, makes one guy miss and he's gone. When that happened, I was like, they might be in for a tougher day than they probably imagined. How do you feel about the cults right now? Because coming into the year, I think that there was warranted excitement about what this team could look like based on how things were with Gardner Minshu last year. And I think that the offense was consistently putting themselves in the right positions. Now you're dropping a super talented quarterback back into this. You have some past catchers that are intriguing. I just think that the feeling around this organization and just the benefit of the doubt we were willing to give them and the inherent optimism and kind of

rosy outlook, that's very much been erased for me. I just don't know how I should feel about them moving into 2025. I feel like something has to change. I'd probably be surprised if Gus Bradley was back based on the way that this game went, even though their defense has been fine for most of the year. It's not like they've been a disaster, but I feel like something is going to have to change for them to sell this to the fan base, considering just the overall vibe hanging over this organization right now. I think if you asked me before the Denver game, I would have said the shine has come off, but there's still enough benefit of the doubt here, and they did enough in year one that looked good, that it's like, okay, I still feel okay about this where I'm willing to give you another chance.

After the Denver game and after this game, I feel like so much of it has completely washed away for me because again, this, it's not just that they lost these games. It's that as I'm watching these games and as they're unfolding, I just feel like they are just not ready to grab the season by the horns and be like, this is our moment. Like for all the issues that the Bengals or the dolphins have, these are teams that are looking their season at the end in the face and saying, we're going to go find a way to get to the end of this. The Colts have just looked completely unprepared, like too young, too inexperienced for

the moment. Some of that I think is the coaching staff. Some of that is on offense. You do just literally have a lot of young pieces. And today you had a backup quarterback and Joe Flacco, but I just, it's hard to fully quantify, but they just did not feel ready, and that is a scary feeling for me. On the other side in this game, the New York Giants, who came into the week with the number one pick in the draft, win this game and drop to four. And listen, I'm sure Giants fans are frustrated with this.

This is not a scenario where you're not going to try to win the games. One, that's just not typically how this happens. When it does happen, it's because you have somebody on such solid ground that you could essentially tell him, we're throwing this thing. That is a Doug Peterson in, I can't remember what year it was. It was probably 2018 where they did that, right? Yeah, I think so. It was 2018 where they essentially punted the final game.

Yeah, they were like, Doug Peterson had won a Super Bowl. Brian Dable's coaching for his job. He's not in a position to not try to win these games. So this is always a possibility when you're playing and coaching for jobs to win games that you shouldn't. And now the Giants go from picking first in the draft to now, they have the fourth pick in the draft behind the Patriots, the Titans, and the Browns.

At this point, there are questions about whether or not you're going to have an avenue to a quarterback because the Titans and the Browns are teams that could potentially be in the market for quarterbacks and there aren't that many of them available at the top of this draft. So a potential franchise altering win for the New York Giants here if they cannot maneuver their a way back to a position where they can draft the quarterback or they can convince the Patriots that you should be willing to move from one to four in this draft. That is particularly the scary thing because at least in some of these other recent drafts, there have been more than two players, more than two quarterbacks.

Like the last two classes have had, I mean, well, last year had six that you could sell yourself on one way or another and the year before that had four. There are at most two, too, it feels like this year. And if there are exactly two quarterback needy teams ahead of you, that's a really, really tough spot for them to be in. And I honestly, I do wonder what the Patriots like consideration for moving off of the pick would be because obviously when you're that bad, you should always consider wanting to trade out and being like, okay, we need that many players.

At the same time, how many chances are you ever going to get at a player like Travis Hunter? Like that is a one of one you've never seen this before type of thing. So I'm not saying they should make that pick necessarily, but I can understand why you would be like, we might never see this again. We want this on our team. I don't think you can do that with a non-quarterback when you're in the Patriots position. But doesn't having the quarterback give you the flexibility? You've already hit on the guy.

Well, let's say you have, but I think that if you have the number one pick and you're not drafting a quarterback, that's when, if you don't have a quarterback and you have the number one pick, that's when you can turn down to three first round picks from another team. because it's like, well, why does that matter? Then I'm just going to have to use that ammunition to go find my quarterback at some point. The Patriots have that. So I think if you're getting a huge haul to move down a couple spots, you should be honest with yourself about where you are in the team building process. It'll depend on what the offer is, but I'm not sure any non-quarterback can make you turn down like multiple first-round picks.

I don't know if that would even happen, hypothetically, if a team would be willing to pay that. But I think that even for somebody that's different like Travis Hunter, the fact that it's not a quarterback, you should be open to the idea of moving down personally. Oh, no, they should be open to it. I'm just saying that is like, because he's such a unicorn, I understand the world where they might sell themselves on not trading down and just being like, no, we'll take the guy. Like, the NFL thinks that way sometimes where it's just like there's just never been a guy like this. We don't care about whatever the picks are. So again, I'm not saying it's necessarily the right thing, but I could, I can envision the world where the Patriots sell themselves on. on that and the Giants kind of just get stuck without being able to go get a quarterback.

And listen, there's a chance that teams aren't willing to move up for these quarterbacks in the way that they were for a Drake May last year. But we always say that and teams moved up for Carson Wentz and Jared Goff. Carson Wentz and Jared Goff were not prizes. But when you have a real need at the position, I think that you push teams to a certain level of desperation. And that may be the Giants, even though they had the number one pick coming into the game. So how that's going to shake out which teams need quarterbacks. All of that is going to be fascinating to watch. All right, before we get to, did you see that? Let's take one more quick break. You see that? Did you see that?

See that Sequin Berkeley hit the 2000 yard mark today? Ninth player in NFL history to run for 2,000 yards in a season. He did it in 17 weeks, so it counts for me. And just one of the best running back seasons we've seen in recent memory. He has been absolutely phenomenal. And I'm glad he hit it in 17. I'm glad it didn't take 18 games. So obviously, the record is in play. like Philly probably going to sit people next week. They have nothing left to play for. But the fact that he did this and kind of had this remarkable bounce back year after everything that he endured with the Giants, one of the stories of the season, like no other

way to put it. It's been incredible, man. And again, for like you said, for him to do it in, you know, what we would consider the normal time span for a lot of these other records, I think is just truly phenomenal. And especially in this game, so a part of why Sequan has. has been able to be as good as he is, is because the quarterback is a run threat. And if Jalen Hertz is as good as he is as a downfield thrower, it unlocks the defense. You know, defenses are going to play back a little bit, and they're not going to respect him as much as A.J. Brown on

some of these plays, and it's going to open stuff up for him. He didn't have that in this game. Kenny Pickett was playing at quarterback, and then Kenny Pickett goes out, and Tanner McKee has to come play into the game. And everybody knows they're going to try to get the ball to Seyquan Barclay, the guy who is like for the first time and a long time in a running back who people are talking about like an MVP. And he still goes out, cares the ball like 30 times, has 150 or 60 yards or whatever it is. And he just very obviously looks like the best player on the field. I just think it's, it's been a cool moment this year in particular where we've gotten more

players where the running back obviously feels like the best player on the field. And so for him to hit this milestone, it's just a really cool moment for him. Yeah, it could have watched that sort of team in the playoffs. because it's been a while since we were dealing with that. I mean, I think the Titans, when they got the number one seed, that was really the last time where it's like, this is the running back is the driving engine of this. They were one of the most efficient passing teams in the league when their

offense was built like that. But I think we all knew that Derek Henry and their ability to lean on that downhill running game that drove those Titans offenses. And this feels like something adjacent to that, except we have A.J. Brown and Devante Smith as part of this, rather than just year two, A.J. Brown. Exactly. Also, one last weird quirk about this, it is bizarre to me that there are multiple Titans who have made the 2K mark. Like, of all the franchises to have multiple 2,000 yard runners, the fact that it's the Titans is just incredibly funny to me.

Let's keep rolling here. Did you see Aaron Rogers got an unnecessary roughness penalty today after throwing an interception? I don't remember who the announcer was, but they were like trying to get out the joke that they've never seen. like an unnecessary hit on a quarterback, but it's thrown for the quarterback making the hit. Like it was just, I feel like this totally sums up the Jets season. And there were a couple of plays in this game that sums it up. But for him to throw that pick and then run to the sideline, try to make the play, push the guy outside of bounds, and then not really feel bad about it. Like, it was just, I don't know, man.

I'm so over this team. And it felt like a pretty fitting end to a what was a really bizarre and kind of sad game here for the Jets. the lowest QBR of the season today, Aaron Rogers did. And I saw some rumblings over the past week that, you know, they've been playing a little bit better on offense. Roger's been playing a little bit better. Like, maybe they bring him back next year. What?

For what? Wash your hands of this. You have a new GM, a new head coach. You can burn this thing to the ground and start over. That is the correct door to open. We've talked about, I've talked about how I think the Texans offense might be the most disappointing thing about this season, just based on preseason. and expectations. I think the only reason I've been framing it that way is that I forgot the Jets

existed like two months ago. And every so often I'm reminded that they're an NFL team and that a lot of people, I think me included, thought they might be a wild card team this year because the thought was, well, the defense is going to be really good. As long as the offense isn't putrid, they should at least be competitive. None of that was true. And so I think I've just ejected them from my brain. But every once in a while, I am unfortunately reminded that they are a part of this NFL season. Yeah, the Texans have at least, at least one side of the ball is good enough that we were forced to consider them as a playoff team.

And now they are in the playoffs. So we had to think about them. The Jets, we just didn't have to think about after like week seven or eight or something. Like, they've just been really bad. And to me, they're one of the not just most disappointing teams that I think I've probably ever seen, but one of the saddest, like for a team that, like you said, if things had gone right for them and if Aaron Rogers came back and looked good, and maybe. be like Garrett Wilson takes another step. The offensive line looks good. The defense plays at the top five

level again. You'd be like, okay, they could win 11 games and go be right behind the bills in the wild card, and they could maybe go win a playoff game. For them to be now, not only worse than they were last year with Zach Wilson and win fewer than seven games, but for them to be like considerably worse than that and to a point where it looks like you have to blow the entire thing up, that is just such a far drop from what it could have been. Like, worst case scenario should have been being as good to Zach Wilson and that team. They have fallen like two tiers below even that team, which is just completely stunning. It was so perfect.

The Tyrault Taylor came in and immediately threw a touchdown to get it Wilson. It's the only way for the meaningful games in this Jet Season 10. Did you see that there was a duck on the field in the Bucks Panthers game? This is all you. You were very excited about the duck when we were planning the show. Dude, this was my favorite part of the entire day. So there's... You big bird guy?

No, it just was the moment, the... way that it all happened was truly like the best shot in cinema I've ever seen. So there's a duck on the field in this Bucks Panthers game setting up for a punt. So of course the TV camera is on the duck because who cares? It's just going to be a punt like 99.9% of punts. There's just nothing happens. So they have the camera on this duck and before they even turn to the punt, you hear the smack of the ball hitting somebody's hands like it's been blocked. They quick cut to the ball and all of a sudden you see a Bucks player like pouncing on the ball and picking it up and running it back. It was this moment hit me like a lightning bolt, dude. Like for it just for to just the,

for them to have the camera on the duck and then the smack of the punt getting blocked was like truly it woke me up, got me out of my seat. It was so funny. Oh, they smack the block punt and the bucks smacked the Panthers in this game. Baker Mayfield goes 27 or 32 for 359 and five touchdowns. And their offense just rolls. Again, a reminder of like what this team is capable of. The Panthers defense is awful. But this offense, when it's really rolling, is one of the more fun units in the league to watch. By the way, Baker Mayfield is one passing touchdown away from getting 40 passing touchdowns this season. If you go look at the list of guys who have thrown 40 touchdowns, it's like a 100% hit rate on Hall of Famers. It is, it is so funny that he is going to get into

this list. Baker has a Monster Day. Becky, Bucking Irving has another Monster Day. 20 carries 113 yards, four catches for 77 yards, which leads us to a larger conversation. Did you see that the rookies on offense just had an incredible day again today? Brock Bowers sets the all-time record for receptions from a rookie tight end, sets the all-time record for yardage by a rookie tight end, 1,100 yards, which the reception's record is for all players, right? So the reception's record is for all players. The yardage record is for tight ends.

Puka still has the yardage record for all players. but he breaks a record that Mike Dick has set five decades ago. Before it was the NFL. Speaks to the type of season that Brock Bowers has had. Bucky Irving has a monster day. Jalen McMillan had five catches for 51 yards and two touchdowns in this game. The Giants are the first rookie type teammates with Tyrone Tracy and Malik neighbors to have 1,000 yards from scrimmage in the same season since Reggie Bush and Marcus Colston

with the 2006 Saints. Brian Thomas becomes a. believe the fourth player ever to have 10 touchdowns and 1,000 yards in his rookie season as a receiver. And then Ladd McConkey goes eight catches for 94 yards and two touchdowns. Just an incredible week for rookie skill position players and what has been a very impressive season for that group of guys. This has been, this week in particular was such a cool cap to, like I think throughout the draft process, we all knew it was an offensive draft. Like there was so much talk about like how we're not getting any defense. players in the top 20 or whatever and, you know, when's the first one going to come off the board?

And it's been all these offensive guys. For them to mostly like be who we thought they would be, like for Marvin Harrison Jr. to be having a been frustrating but solid rookie season. And then there to be like three or four or five pass catchers who are obviously better than him in year one has been insane. Like Bowers, I think we knew would be as good as he is. Neighbors, I think we knew would be as good as he is, for Ladd-McConkie to immediately step in and be the Chargers number one has been incredible. And then to me, the biggest shock is Brian Thomas Jr. I thought Brian Thomas Jr. It would take a few years. Like you saw some of his route running. It was a little bit up and down. Some of his play through contact was a little bit up and down. He's just been straight up the

best of the receivers to me. Like he's been incredible. So the fact that we've gotten all of this play from these guys, it's been such a cool rookie class of past catchers. I wanted to get the stat right. Rookies in NFL history. with 1100 receiving yards and 10 plus receiving touchdowns. Here's the list. Brian Thomas Jr., Jamar Chase, Odell Beckham, Randy Moss. It's all Hall of Famers, and now three LSU players. Absolutely insane.

He's been phenomenal. I really liked him coming out. I just, I loved just, he was so slippery. Just like the flexibility and the way his body moves. I was like, I don't know what he is. I don't know how long. going to take him to get there. But I will bet on the way that that dude moves.

And beyond that, beyond just the flexibility, you're like four, three, like 205 pounds. Like the guy is unbelievably explosive. So the fact that he's put all of that together so quickly is remarkable. I also was very, very excited about Lab Makaki coming into the draft. And that brings us to the final thing we want to hit here. Did you see that this game against the Patriots and them getting into the playoffs, this is just the Chargers plan coming together this year. Like what they did in hiring Jim Harbaugh and how they approach the draft,

their plan was we're going to bring in Jim, we're going to change the entire culture of how this building operates. We're going to use our first round pick, a top five pick on a tackle because we think we'll be able to find receivers a little bit later and in more places than you can find the tackle. Well, the entire culture has changed with Jim Harbaugh there. They are now a team you expect to win rather than expect to. to lose. They bring in Joe Alt already a day one locked and loaded starting right tackle in the

league. And you can find a receiver like Ladd McConkey in the second round. Everything about the way that the Chargers approached this off season, everything about who they wanted to be has fallen into place. And I don't think you could be happier or more pleased with the way this season has gone if you are a Los Angeles Chargers fan. It's been picture perfect. Like you said, like you knew year one they we're not going to turn it around all the way and have all the star power that you need to go win the championship. None of that stuff. They couldn't have any players this off season.

Exactly. Like, again, we joked about it before. Their biggest signing was like Will Disley. And then they go out and their first draft pick is a tackle when guys like Malik neighbors and stuff on the board. This was very clearly a foundational setting season. And to your point, all of it has been set. And there was a part of me that I think when they drafted Joe Alt, they drafted Ladd McConkey,

who I wasn't sure what his ceiling was, but I was like, yeah, that could be a guaranteed 800 yards type of player and he's actually even been better than that and you have Justin Herbert you already have a good left tackle and Slater. I was like, okay, I can convince myself that the offense will figure something out. To me, it was what is the ceiling here on defense and like, how quickly are they going to jumpstart this thing on that side of the ball? The coaching on that side of the ball is awesome, man. And like, I still think they don't have some of the, super high impact players that they need. Like I think one or two more star type players, pro bowl caliber players would really go a long way for them.

But man, like it just... They got a huge hole with safety. Yeah, exactly. They're piecing it together now. And I think that they didn't come into the season with a lot of talent. Now that they've had to endure some injuries, we've seen some of the limitations of what they have on that side of the ball. But the foundation is as rock solid as you could possibly want it to be based on how this

season has gone. And that's just a very different feeling from what we're come to expect from this organization over the last decade or so. Yeah, I mean, I think you nailed it, was saying, we expected this team to lose games. And now, even at the end of some of these tight games, it feels like they'll find a way. Like Herbert's good enough and the coaching staff isn't going to get in his way. All right, before we get out of here, let's talk about what we learned in week 17. You know, I think I've learned something today.

What do you got for me? What did you learn after week 17 in the NFL? I've learned that the greed and overconsumption of the NFL is starting to wear on me a little bit. We can't do Christmas games into Thursday games, into triple headers on Saturday. Like, it's, listen, I love football. I truly do. I think a full slate of 12 Sunday games, we get our Monday nighter, we get our Thursday nighter.

That's perfect. That's enough. There's a pacing to it. There's a scheduling to it that just feels right. You go into Sunday knowing, I'm going to have too many games to watch. This is overwhelming. Like, which good game do I pick? And then to have a game like a day like a Sunday like today.

where especially in the morning slate, there's nothing to watch. In the afternoon slate, there's two games. One of them is really good. The other one is like almost completely inconsequential. And so to me, I was like,

I just want, I want the week to not feel as stretched out as it has. The only reason I'm okay with it is that I get to pay attention to more games in real time, where it's like, it's a standalone game that I don't have to go back and rewatch as we're figuring out the recap show. For my own selfish planning purposes. That's the only reason that I like it.

And it was fun to watch football with members of my family this week in a way that I wouldn't have otherwise. That's a good point. Watching football, I mean, this is not my favorite part of it, but like I watch more football with my wife this week than I think I ever have. And her commentary during the Christmas games was fun. All she cared about was Beyonce for the most part. But she was watching the Bears game with me on Thursday. And she was really, really mad at DK McHaff when he was already. arguing with Tyreek Stevenson on the sideline.

She was, she was like, what is, why are you doing this? She's like, like, why are you still arguing with him? And her conclusion was just that men are stupid. Like, how can you not like control yourself? You're a grown man. And she was just very, very upset about the animosity between the football players on the field. That was her only contribution to the conversation. I think the fact that it was D.K. Metcalf is perfect.

I have no notes here. She's just like, why is he still yelling? I don't know. They do that sometimes. They just yell. It's an emotional game. I don't know. know what she didn't even get the classic guy punches a helmet which is like the dumbest and funniest

thing you can do if that happened that would have been the perfect moment for that i was trying to like subtly explain to her that in order to be a professional football player you have to be wired a certain way where there's something drastically wrong with you and that's what leads to moments like this but at a certain point it just wasn't worth continuing to go down that road what i learned in week 17 is we don't know shit about anything the sam darnal thing is we we don't know anything And to me, it's one of the most beautiful things about this sport is that there are so, so many factors in what determines success or failure that you can have somebody like Sam Darnold or like Baker Mayfield who are on that goddamn Panthers team together. And any team in the league could have had these guys. Anybody.

Anybody could assign Baker. Anybody could assign Sam Darnold. And no one did except the teams that did. The Bucks signed Baker to a one-year $4 million contract last year, and the Vikings signed Sam Donald to a one-year $10 million contract this year. And when you put those guys in the right circumstances, they look like quarterbacks who can pilot elite offenses. I don't need to draw a line and where they sit in the high-marked.

It doesn't matter. They're literally doing it. We have guys that are the quarterbacks of top five-ish offenses that put their teams in positions to accomplish. real things. These are guys that you could have on the street and that's what they're doing this year. And I think it just speaks to you how many things have to go right for guys to succeed and how many things can potentially go wrong for guys to fail. And just bring a little bit more humility into this stuff where it's like maybe we don't know everything. Maybe there are some

of these things that are hiding in plain sight that we don't fully understand. It's a really good reminder as we get into another offseason and we think about how we're going to talk about the sport, how we're going to talk about who might be good, who might be bad. We really know so, so much less than we want to. And I think that Sam Donald's game today and then carrying him around the locker room after what he did to that Packers team is all the evidence you need for that. Donald really captures it more than any other player or even team this season. Like even more than I think Washington because at least with Baker, you know, second half of his rookie season looked cool. There were some previous highs. They'd made playoffs. It was like, you could sell yourself why

maybe this would work. With Sam Darnold, one, a lot of the film looked weird and ugly, but then two, he was statistically like the worst quarterback who had ever taken as many snaps as he had. And so for him to go from that to piloting what is, again, a top six, seven offense and getting better over the course of the season and clearly playing with a level of confidence that we never saw from him at his previous two or three stops. It's just, yeah, sometimes the right, influence of factors can come together and you just get a player who is completely different from the guy that you thought he was or who he looked like for, you know, a thousand dropbacks beforehand.

Maybe we don't need to put the period at the end of a sentence about what the rookie quarterbacks are so far just, just yet. Maybe we can hold off just a little bit. Considering this guy is now in year seven and looks and is able to do this and looks the way that he does. So just, yeah, maybe admitting a little bit of a little bit of. more often some of the things that we don't fully understand because there are plenty of them when it comes to the NFL.

All right. That is all we've got for today. We're back to pretty much a regularly scheduled programming this week. We're going to be recording the midweek show Tuesday into Wednesday so it's going to be coming out on New Year's Day. We're going to do end of season awards, even though there's one more game left to play, just because this is how the schedule is playing out. We need the following midweek show to talk about some of the coach firings in Black

Black Monday. I don't want the awards to stretch into the playoffs because by then we're going to be doing some different stuff. I've got some other shows planned. So there are going to be some awkward decisions that we have to make about who's going to win the MVP, et cetera. But this is the best time to do that show. So that's what we are going to do. So please come check that out later in the week. And then we'll be back on Friday with our week 18 preview.

If you guys have missed any of the episodes from The Money Down, our mini series about the business of the NFL. we released the fourth and final episode of that on Saturday with me and Bill Barnwell talking about some good and bad contracts from the last 10 years and some of the lessons that we could potentially learn from both. So if you check that out, I would really appreciate it. If you would like and subscribe to the YouTube channel if you're watching here, I would very much appreciate that. And if you like the show, leave us to review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you happen to listen. We're getting toward the end of the year. If you have liked the podcast this year, please let us know because it does make a difference and I would really

appreciate it. now, that is all we got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.