The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 18 Recap: Seahawks and Broncos lock up top seeds, Panthers back into playoffs, and more

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Week 18 had a little bit of everything, as far as stakes are concerned. A game for the 1-seed in the NFC? Check. Winner-take-all divisional matchups? Check. Glorified exhibition games? Oh yeah, big check. And when it all wrapped up, we got our first look at this season's playoff field. Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman put a bow on the regular season on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)0:01 Ravens-Steelers17:10 Seahawks-Niners34:11 Panthers/NFC South52:20 Playoff picture1:02:00 Draft order1:03:55 How can you not be romantic about football?1:15:10 What did we learn today?Connect with The Athletic Football ShowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowPodcasts: https://podfollow.com/the-athletic-football-show/viewX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Hosts: Derrik Klassen and Dave HelmanExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dave on X: @davehelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Week 18 is in the books. Man, that was a fun Sunday night game. I'm not sure it was a good game, but it was sure fun. The Pittsburgh Steelers knock off the Baltimore Ravens to punch their ticket to the postseason. Started off by digging into that game and then talked about the other games

that really mattered in Week 18. The fight for the number one seed between the Seahawks and the Niners on Saturday, and then the Carolina Panthers somehow losing a game and then winning in the NFC South, which I can't remember anything like that happening, but that's exactly what happened. So we dug into all of the implications in the NFC South the race. After that, chatted a little bit about just the playoff schedule,

the seedings. We know what they all look like. At first, quick look at the schedule for next week. A lot of good ones on the slate. I'm already dreading the fact that I have to talk about Bears Packers and then watch Bears Packers and then immediately talk about it. That's just not going to be a good look for. anybody and then chatted a little bit about the draft order and the top 10 that has now come

into full view with the season wrapped up let's dig into that with me derrick classin and dave helman right now right before we started recording Dave just started laughing and i know that he was just going back and in his mind replaying what we just saw over the last like half hour i know i know that's why you're just sitting there shuckling yeah because we got everything you could possibly want from the last game of the season, including the fact that that sucked. Like, theoretically, thrilling, thrilling finish.

The football was horrible. Thrilling finish, bad football, the perfect game to wrap up what was the AFC North and this game of hot potato that the Steelers and Ravens have been playing. Like, literally, right there in the final four minutes of this game, it felt like neither team really wanted to win. I mean, it was thrilling theater.

and just pretty bad football, and it was very fun. Week 18 is so funny because the way that it's set up, obviously the Saturday games yesterday, both of them, had huge implications for the way that things would go, sort of, because the Panthers lost and then still made the playoffs because the Falcons won, but they were the most important games before the Sunday night game. That's just the way the week 18 is programmed.

And so even today, like when we're watching games, we're like shooting the shit more than we typically would, the games matter or less, but then you get to Sunday night and everything is on the line. So the stakes of that game couldn't have been, higher, but the quality of most of the game couldn't have been lower. But then at the same time, because of the way the fourth quarter went, I had as much fun as I possibly could have for the final 45 minutes.

Oh, I was still extremely into it. Especially for some of the six and two, the way Dave, you had it perfect. I was talking before Tyler Loop had to make that kick because Isaiah likely caught the ball. I'm like, oh, they're in field orange. It should be easy. And I was like the Aaron Rogers presser after this is going to be must watch, incredible stuff.

And Dave immediately turns to me and goes, Tyler Loop hasn't made that kick yet. And there we are. What did I say all the way back in August? We talked about like the X factor for the Ravens was they're breaking in a rookie kicker. Now, I thought he might break their hearts in a conference championship game. Right. And not a play in to be the four seed in a deeply disappointing season, but it sort of came to fruition. Yeah, the X factor shouldn't have been to win a gross game to win the AFC North in a down year.

And I think the Ravens obviously had a chance to win that game. they're in a position to win that game. I think they got outplayed over the course of this game, and I'm not sure they deserve to win that game. I feel like the way it ended was a just ending considering how the game went down to down. Don't you feel like that would have been true either way? No, I think the Steelers outlaw,

like even with some of the Steelers breakdowns inside the final like six, eight minutes of the game. Yeah, I think for a majority of this game, the Steelers outplayed the Ravens in this game. I mean, the breakdown on the last day flower's touchdown, That's something that can happen. Ravens are a very funky formation. It's third and two.

You're in four down territory. And so running the ball on that play on that third and two makes total sense. They're in like a five by zero look with Ronnie Stanley flipped and unbalanced formation. So you're creating a lot of confusion there. I understand how that play happens. The Zayflower's touchdown before that, that's just Lamar Jackson being a superhero. Yeah. I mean, that's just a cool play.

Many moments in this game. we're talking about it in real time. The second to last Zayflower's touchdown, Alex Highsmith is completely unblocked off the left side, and Daniel Falulele doesn't block anybody at right guard. It requires Lamar Jackson to make a fantastic play. If you look at the quality of the two teams over the, how many plays do we get today?

There were 121 plays in this game. Yeah, 121 plays in this game. The Steelers were better for a majority of those plays, but you have the one Lamar Jackson, superhero play, and then you have one play where by design, they get that second's A Flowers touchdown. For the most part, I thought the Steelers played harder. I thought that their defense significantly outplayed the Ravens offense.

And I felt like if they had lost this game, it would have been some weird combination of not having any receivers and Aaron Rogers' helmet breaking so they couldn't call any timeouts, plus Chris Boswell, weirdly unraveling in the most important moments of the season. Well, I guess, and that would be my point is just in crunch time. And you make valid points about the nature of those touchdowns, but you just give up two ridiculously explosive touchdowns and you miss a PAT. I wouldn't have been crying very hard for the Steelers

had they lost this game. I want to be clear about that. That's not what I'm saying. I don't think the Steelers played some majestic game. I think the Ravens game was grosser. I think that's fair, especially relative to, and isn't this the story of the Ravens season or at least one of them is like how good it can look in spurts,

particularly like the opening possession of this game. And I know. Yeah, I know. But I just, it can come so close to looking like the Ravens we get used to. And then it just peters out and fizzles away. And that is what's so frustrating to me is that the down to down, like they have gotten the explosive. We've talked about this before. Like they were a really good explosive run team for a lot of this season.

They just, the down to down is not very good. And I know that they were decent today. But like this was a team that for the most part has subsisted only on explosive plays. And that was definitely true today. And you mentioned a couple of the Zay Flowers plays. The Tess Walker touchdown to open is just like they get him in cover zero. And Tess Walker, who even though he can't do a whole lot of things necessarily can run very fast, Jalen Ramsey tries to cut a route that he thinks is going to be a little bit shorter.

Tess Walker takes it high. And that's a touchdown. It's like those three plays, the big catch by Isaiah likely at the end. And then the one Derek Henry 40-yard run. Like other than that, the Ravens really did not move the ball all that consistently in this game. They absolutely didn't. They finished with 137 rushing yards, but a huge chunk of that is the first run for Derek Henry.

The Ravens per next gen had a 29% rushing success rate in this game. I thought that the Steelers Front in particular did some ass kicking in this game. And even part of that Derek Henry run, it got called back. It got called back. Because of the weird blind side block. I mean, you could, any member of the Steelers Front deserves their flowers in this game. I thought that Kim Hayward was an absolute monster all over the place throughout this game. T.J. Wock, it's the huge.

interception on the tipped ball. Alex Highsmith had multiple really nice moments against the run. Keanu Benton absolutely dumps Tyler Linderbaum on one of the first drives of the game. And then I thought one of the coolest things the Steelers did schematically in this game, with T.J. Watt back,

they were using Nick Herbig really consistently as like a spinner blitzer in the middle and then having him just fire down one of the A-gaps and they were doing a bunch of stuff off of it. That third and seven play where Lamar, has to desperation flip it out of bounds on the second to last play offensively for the Ravens of the whole game, that's a play where they bring Herbig

and then they drop Highsmith and Watt off of the edges. And so they're only bringing four and multiple different times, Herbig crushing the middle of the pocket as a blitzer, that worked out really well for the Ravens. I just thought that, again, down to down, I thought that the Ravens, the Steelers defense took it to the Ravens' offense in this game. And they got Lamar on a sack on that same. exact type of pressure look earlier in the game where they and they I think they did a really good job to one of you know when you drop both of the edges and then bring a lot of agap players you do kind of mess with the protection that way and then I thought what they did interesting with the two blitzing inside players was one was a typical linebacker I think it was Patrick queen and the other's herbig but they bring queen first so that the offensive lineman's going to pick him up and you leave the back to take nick herbig which there aren't really a whole lot of past protecting backs who are going to be able to handle an edge a typical edge player like that and so them just messes

with a lot of their past protection rules for a lot of this game was, I think, the most impressive thing that the Steelers did on this end. Because in Covers, they honestly played a lot of man. Like, it wasn't that, like, crazy a lot of what they were doing on the back end, it was really what up front I thought was really, really impressive. It's not that weird that Cameron Hayward would be a useful player at age 36. He's a unicorn. To, like, take over a game.

And that's what he did. And he didn't. And he got big up a little bit in this game, actually. Because of the, on the Zaypland, the blockback thing, yeah. I thought that on offense for the Steelers, Obviously, you really notice Kyle Hamilton going out of the game and some of the biggest moments of the game. And the Steelers' offense, especially without Washington and McAff,

it is what it is. Like, it's gross. Like the amount of flat routes and checkdowns and swing screens and all of that that comprise most of the offense, it's not fun to watch. And I'm not sure how viable it is against the Texans next week. I think that could be like a snuff out sort of game. But the moments that they had down the field, they hit two of them almost immediately

on the sequence after Gilman and Hamilton run into each other and then in one of the biggest moments of the game they hit Fryermouth running up the seam. It's covered two. Ardarius Washington is playing dime linebacker on that play because Kyle Hamilton is hurt, they hit him with a little double move and Rogers is able to push down the field

and then the game winning touchdown, which ended up becoming a game winning touchdown after the missed field goal. It's another double move where they're picking on Chiodoio. So the Ravens are banged up in the field. the secondary, but that's not an excuse. You're playing against a team with, if you combine all of them, like 1.2 viable NFL receivers, like the secondary injuries are not enough of an excuse for the Ravens to, like,

wave away what this game looks like. Their secondary is still better. Exactly. Like on a player to player basis. Add the Friarmooth double move down the seam to my playlist of things I'll cherish about this Aaron Rogers season. Like it definitely largely, has not been enjoyable.

But I could probably get to like a dozen moments where I was like, hell yeah, A-Raj, there he is. And that was one of them from this game. Here's my kind of final parting shot with this game in the way that it unfolded. I said this to you guys at some point in like the third quarter. Watching the Steelers take it to the Ravens

in so many aspects of this game, mentality, physicality, all this stuff. it reminded me a little bit of what the Ravens did to the Steelers in the back half of seasons over the last couple years where you're watching the Ravens just bring it to an entirely different level with everything on the line. And in those moments, I'm left thinking,

what is the point of the Mike Tomlin era if this is what you are going to be in the biggest games of the season? If you were just going to get walked over in the biggest games of the season. And that's kind of how I feel today about the John Harbaugh era. what is this? Like if this is what you're going to look like with your season on the line

against a division rival, what are we doing here and what is this supposed to be? And that might be harsh, considering how good the Ravens had been over the last couple years, but we've been sitting here for how long saying, okay, when are the Ravens going to turn it on? When are the Ravens going to turn it on?

There were people this week who were responding to our Ravens conversation and being like, well, you know, you can't count the Ravens out. If they make it, they could go on a run. that never happened. That version of the Ravens we've come to expect and we think is possible,

that never happened. And you watch the way they play tonight and you watched how flat they were for a good majority of this game with their lives on the line. And I think this is the sort of thing where you got to take a long look in the mirror about what you are as a franchise

after the way that tonight went. And I think it's different than a lot of their playoff losses for two reasons. Absolutely. Like one, they're a mid-team. They finish with a losing record. Exactly. Like when you get,

get to the divisional or you're losing these games in the conference championship. Whatever it is, it's like you can at least live with like, okay, we made it, we lost to a really, really good team. The other thing is like in a lot of those games, they actually did feel like the better team or at least like really did feel like they could have won a lot of those games, and then it's one silly mistake here. It's one silly mistake there. This game from top to bottom, like you were saying, they were the worst team.

And again, they hit a couple of their explosive plays, had a couple of nice moments, but from start to finish, they were the worst team tonight. That is usually not how this unfolds. And again, if you're going to do that in a game where, you now finish the season 8 and 9 and you were fighting for a like win the division by default type of title it's a very different feeling

than we've had with these Ravens losses the last three or so years. If you want to pretend that this is or if you want to come to the conclusion that this is an aberration this game, this season that it's a small dip and it is a speed bump

on the way to where the Ravens want to go. I'm willing to hear that argument. You need to come to a conclusion about why that aberration happened. Like, what caused this and what are you going to do to make sure that doesn't happen again? I'm not saying you have to fire anybody, but I think that there needs to be some soul searching if you were in the Baltimore Ravens organization after the way that this all just unfolded. It should be genuinely uncomfortable in that building regardless whether what they do with John Harbaugh or not or any other members of the staff.

And yeah, like it is, I think you should hold them to a higher standard because they've been so good. because again, Lamar has been healthy enough this season. I know he missed some time, but he's been healthy enough this season and given the division you were in, you had enough to get it there. And to miss the playoffs in a year where Lamar Jackson is theoretically, at least,

in his prime is tough. It's unforgivable feels harsh because I don't think the Ravens are going to fire John Harbaugh, but I would be so, so pissed off. It's the first time I've come to the end of the season because even when they've lost in previous years, there have been different versions of the Ravens. You and I have talked about this.

When they lost it at the end of the 2020-3 season and they lose that game to the Chiefs, that to me was like the first version of this newer Lamar Jackson with Todd Monkin, where I felt like the offense was equipped for them to deal with the ways that teams would approach them in the playoffs. He wasn't quite good enough against the Blitz, and they ultimately fell short against the team that won the Super Bowl.

last year they have two big mistakes on offense but otherwise feel like the sort of team that can accomplish what they want to. This does not feel like that. This is the first time where I think that at the end of the season they have taken a market step back as a team. Even if the end of these other seasons were disappointing, this feels like real regression for the first time.

Yeah, those seasons felt just like unlucky or whatever you wouldn't want to say about it. Like, you know, tough game. somebody has to win and the Ravens consistently did not win those games. But again, this does feel like the first time they've taken a step back in a while. And I will say, I think we've seen moments both from John Harbaugh with and without Lamar Jackson where his teams have taken a little bit of a step back and then the next year they're really good again. Or the year after that they're really good again.

And I think we've seen that from Lamar when he's had these years when he's been banged up. I think like 2020, it was either 2020 or 2021, he was a little bit banged up. And then right after that comes back and he's incredible again. I think it was both, wasn't it? I think so. Yeah. Like he had that little stretch where it was like, man, is this is his, some of his play style are to getting him,

and then he runs off and wins two MVP. So I have enough faith in this organization that they've proven they can bounce back before. But this really does feel like this is one of the lowest lows that you've had to bounce back from in quite a long time. On the Steelers front, I just don't know what to make of them. I think that it almost is like the inverse of what we're talking about now. The fact that Tomlin can get them up for a game like this

and the fact that they did play that well with everything on the line, I do think that they deserve a lot of credit for it. I don't think they're scary when we get to the playoffs. I just don't really. Maybe that'll come back to bite me because the Texans offense is so vulnerable. I was about to say that they can beat a Texan team. It's just, it's early. There's no reason to get ahead of ourselves.

It's just hard for me to imagine this offense doing much against the Texans defense next week. I know we're going to spend a lot of time talking about that, but it's just hard for me to imagine. I don't think there are many teams that they could have drawn where you would feel good about it. Maybe the Chargers just because they're so bad. beat up. But I feel like that I don't want this to get taken out of context.

Like I think the Texans are a better team than the Steelers. But that feels like as good of a matchup as you could ask for. Like that's a flawed offense. Your front can take advantage potentially of the Texans. Like at the very least, this could, you could drag the Texans down into a 1614 mock fest. You better believe that's going to be how this thing goes. And so, yeah. I'm not going to write them off yet.

But yeah, we don't need to preview that game tonight. And I guess final point, I'm not sure winning a 1614 game against the Texans means what I just said about them not being dangerous doesn't apply. Oh, but we've known that. Like if, I mean, if the end game is getting to and winning the Super Bowl, we've known the Steelers aren't doing that since the season started. I mean, it'd be the first playoff game they won in how long? Winning a playoff game would be a like a decade, I think.

A nice start. You'd be starting probably back over since your quarterback is 41 years old and might be done when the season's over. But those are problems for another. day. All right, before we move on, let's take a quick break. All right, let's get to the two other games that, again, I guess, had the biggest stakes this weekend.

It's time for you have my attention. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. The Seattle Seahawks lock up the number one seed in the NFC with a 13-3 win over the San Francisco 49ers. I don't even know where to start about how impressive this game was from Seattle. defense. I really don't. I mean, the Niners had a 38% offensive success rate. They average 4.1 yards per play. Just the lack of anything, even moderately down the field available to the Niners in the

passing game, the entire day. And the Niners are coming into this game, just smoking hot on offense, looking like the hottest offense in the NFL. And for Seattle to do what they did to this team, from essentially the jump on that side of the ball. It's one of the more impressive defensive performances of this season and in a big spot, one of the more impressive defensive performances I can remember. Can I start with a couple stats that I really like? I would love you too.

This is the 49ers lowest point total since the first game of Kyle Shanahan's tenure. In the Shanahan era. When Bright Hoyer was playing quarterback? Week 1 of 2017, they lost 23 to 3 to Carolina. I didn't even look to see who was playing quarterback. Go ahead and look it up. It's their lowest point total since the first game of his tenure.

And it's only the second time in the last six seasons that San Francisco's failed to score a touchdown in a game. So like since Shanahan got Jimmy in there and kind of got things the way he wanted him, you're not holding them without a touchdown. It happened to him pretty regularly in that first year. But since then, they're going to score. And to hold them out of, to hold the Kyle Shanahan 49ers out of the end zone is, I think that says it all. in that game, Brian Hoyer did play quarterback. The

Pierre Garsohn led the team in targets. Jesus Christ, that sounds right. He had six catches in that game Pierre Garsohn did. That was tied with Carlos Hyde who also had six catches for the Niners in that game. Oh, that's what we're talking about.

That is the version of the Niners and the error of the Niners that we're discussing. They've had, you know, they've had low-scoring games, but yeah, I mean, three points. and I know Ricky Pearsall didn't play and that affects things and Trent Williams didn't play I don't care.

Not scoring a touchdown is that's rare that's rare error for a Shanahan offense in San Francisco. The Seahawks defense was incredible. I really, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that again, not only was it the best, probably the best defensive performance that a team had this year, when you consider who they're playing against, it's one of the most impressive that I can remember in a really long time.

And I just thought that they did. And I think sometimes when you get these performances where a really good offense kind of looks hapless in a spot like this, it can be like maybe the quarterback is just having a bad day or a couple of weird mistakes. Like when Brock Pretty did this against the Ravens, like two or three years ago and through all those picks, it's like, okay, he's clearly just a young player who is spinning right now.

This just felt like Seattle was sucking the life out of every single passing concept, every single run. Like they had nothing. And I thought, I kind of thought they got in San Francisco's head really early in this game. On the first drive, San Francisco. Francisco tried multiple times to like shift the balance of the formation by motioning a guy all the way across. And on the first two plays, Seattle would stem their front. And so right before the snap, they take the two defensive tackles and shift them.

And so it kind of is like, oh, what do we do with our run blocking rules now? Seattle didn't really do a whole lot of that for the rest of the game. But it's because after that, San Francisco stopped trying to reshape the balance of the formation. They were just like, we got what we got in. And any motion we do, it's just like, we're going to take a tight end and push them out. And so I just thought them getting in their head right immediately. Like, it's very rare that you feel like Kyle Shanahan is on the back foot in a football game. And that's how it felt the entire game.

And when you just think about it, and this is what's so special about the structure of who the Seahawks want to be defensively. The Niners, we know this. The Niners are a 21 personnel team. They're a two-back team. They use a ton of heavy personnel over the course of games. In this game, they played 43 percent, 21 personnel. They played 12 percent, 12 personnel. So, 54 percent with.

at least multiple tight-ins or backs on the field, the Seahawks did not play a single snap without five or more D-Bs in this entire game. It was all nickel or dime the entire game. And so you're matching nickel with a San Francisco 49ers team, the Niners had a 30% rushing success rate per next gen. With the Seahawks being in nickel or dime the entire game. And some of that is the way that they're stemming the front,

every single member of the Seahawks front had a nice moment against the run in this game. I thought that some of the things that they were doing in terms of stunting the front, they do a great job of that, obviously. If you're going to be in light boxes, you have to do that. I thought that the way they used Mafei to kind of knife inside on some of those plays. I mean, he is never going to be the guy that's crushing these plays, eating up double teams

and things like that. That's not the type of player he is. But because he is that sort of slasher, you can use him that way. The pieces of their front fit together so beautifully. And we talked about this a little bit today. I thought that, and we'll talk some more about the plan because I thought the plan was really good. but the Seahawks defense and the Texans defense are the two best defenses in the league in my opinion.

The Texans defense is so different in terms of like the aesthetics of what they are defensively. They are not a team that's really going to outskine you. If you look at some of the numbers, they rush for as much as almost any other team in the league. No defensive line droppers, no like... They don't scheme at all. They don't do anything.

It is purely like our guys are crazy and our guys are better than you and that's what we're going to do. Seattle, it's a structural thing. Seattle is a perfect modern defense in the terms of how they build it in terms of the architecture. What I really loved about this game is, I said it last night,

they looked like a group of infected from 28 days later. That's how the entire DB group was playing. The first moment that comes to mind for me, it was like the second or third drive for the Niners, and they're trying to hit Juan Jennings on a little slide route. It's one of the first things in my notes. And Tariq Wollen just tracks him down

all the way across the formation. They try to throw a screen to George Kittle in the first half. Nick Amonwari slips around a block drops him six yards deep in the backfield. They hit to Marcus Robinson a little whip route on third and two. Spoon drops him the moment that he catches that ball. It's the DBs on the Seattle side, and that plays to me into the plan defensively. If you go back and you watch this, it's a lot of zone coverage,

and all of the middle of the field defenders, Drake Thomas, Ernest Jones, Spoon when he's playing in the Nickel. They're doing an incredible job all throughout this game. You talk about this. Eyes in the back of your head. They're falling back into all these in-breakers and crossers, and they're taking those away, those routes behind them. They're just getting a ton of depth in all these own coverages.

And they're making the Niners consistently throw the ball underneath and check the ball down, and then they're swallowing every single one of those plays. It was masterful. Like it's just on every single level. Mindset, plan, execution. It's everything you could want from a defensive performance. I know he's not a DB, but throw in Drake Thomas just bodying Joanne Jennings on that crossing. It's exactly the type of player talking about.

And the Jennings and Thomas play, those were back to back, by the way. And why I think they're really cool and kind of speak to a lot of the coaching, when you think of Tareke Wolland, especially earlier in his career, he was not a guy who really did a whole lot of hitting and tackling. He was a good coverage player, especially down the field, but didn't really play like his counterpart. Devin Witherspoon who was trying to come down and hit people. And so for him to have that play where he is tracking across the formation through traffic, which by by, by Ernest Jones and Drake Thomas knowing not to get in his way, I thought that was actually another good bit of like, that's a clearly well-coach unit. Coordination between all that is crazy.

And so Woolen having that moment where like you think of this guy as his coverage player and he's hunting down a player like that. And then on the very next play, you have Drake Thomas who I imagine as a missile. Mini-missle. He's a hitman. You blitz him, you run blitz him, you want him to hit guards. And then he has this play where I know the end of it where he comes down and his Jennings looks cool, the depth that he gets to carry the tight end up the seam,

perfectly pass it off to the safety behind him, stop on a dime, know that Purdy is going to throw that route and then drive on it with a good angle. I was like, when did he become a useful coverage player? And he had a couple of other good moments in this game. So woolen going, woolen kind of going to the other end of the spectrum, being able to hit. And Drake Thomas going to the other end of the spectrum, where he can cover, it's like the way that these guys are coached and come together is just,

it's one of a kind man. Two more stats that I really loved when I was looking into this. If you include playoffs, Brock Purdy has played in 56 games. This was one of two games in his career where he's averaged less than five air yards per attempt. And it was one of five games in his career where he did not attempt a throw of 20 plus air yards. And my favorite part about that is of the five, three of them were against a Mike McDonald defense. Two games, again, when he's the head coach of the Seahawks and then the 2023 Christmas game

when he was with the Ravens. So that's fun. On the other side of the ball, you know, the Seahawks offense, I still feel like we're going to get some moments as we get throughout this thing where you're going to watch Sam Darnold and you're just going to be like, you're driving me crazy, buddy. Like the first drive where he just doesn't throw the ball on the flat

and like those things are going to happen. And against this Niners defense, you kind of wish that they were, able to put up more than 13 points. And they had some chunk gains in the first half. I thought the best things that they were doing in this game were getting the ball on the perimeter every once in a while and the combination of what the backs and a lot of the guys up front were doing on some of those balls where they're getting the ball in space.

What Gray's Abel did in this game on some of the screens, like that was impressive. I still think that when we get into games where you're playing against these complete teams, I wonder what the offense is going to be able to do. But they made enough plays on some of those moments. in space in this game against the bad Niners defense that when your defense is playing the way that it did, it's enough. And this was a game where, you know, Dave, you kind of talked about it, I think coming into the week, it was like,

if you can't run the ball at least a little bit on the Niners here, like you need to be able to do that. And they actually did run the ball fairly well. They had a couple of times where they got hit in the backfield, but that was only really when, if you noticed, like, San Francisco was either bringing the nickel or bringing whoever their down safety was. The safeties were flying downhill.

It's the best thing the Niners' defense did in this game. Exactly. When they were triggering those guys, they had a couple of plays where they could get into the backfield. Anytime they didn't do that, or if that guy missed or got washed down for whatever reason, plays are popping for six yards, eight yards, ten yards, pretty consistently. And then again, you mentioned some of the screen stuff.

Like, the screen they throw to Ken Walker on the first drive, Taden Bethune gets completely dusted into the ground by Gray Zabel. Like, it is not like... He was the one that I had in mind. Yeah. Like, he actually closes on it fairly quickly and, like, gets on Zabel, but Zabel just immediately goes, no, I'm bigger and better.

and we're not going to do this, and he puts him in the ground. And so I just thought that there were a lot of moments where the Seahawks' offensive line, the Seahawks run game, gave them a better floor than they're used to, and the passing game was just, again, a little bit uneasy. Yeah, the D.Bs, you mentioned,

they had a lot of the run stops in this game. Jayae Brown had multiple. Leek Mustafa was flying downhill. Renardo Green had one at one point. Diomador de Leonor had a huge TFL on the third down in this game. Jayaeer Brown had maybe the biggest play of the day, taking away that go ball to JSN down the left sideline. And so I thought the DBs for the Niners played well enough for them to win this game.

Unfortunately, they're just completely outmanned up front. And in the first half, the Seahawks did what they wanted. They had 6.3 yards per play. Things stalled out a little bit more in the second half. But again, when your defense is playing that way, you don't need that much. I don't want to take the accomplishment away from the Seahawks. I mean, they won by 10 points. Of course I wouldn't.

And their defense was so great. I do, watching this back over the course of the day today, the third and 17, where Walker gets 19. Oh, it's massive play. And then obviously, we haven't mentioned the Drake Thomas interception, which is a phenomenal play, but it could have been a much different story. Like, I mean, if you're the Niners, you're sitting there, what, if the Seahawks don't pick up that third down, they go three and out, you punt. And I think there's three minutes left in the half, or three minutes left in the third quarter.

Niners have a chance to cut it to closer still in the third quarter. Instead, the Seahawks go up 10 early in the fourth. And then, even then, if you cash in even a field goal in that situation where Drake Thomas gets the pick, it's white knuckle time and you're holding on for dear life over the final 10 minutes of the game. I was out. I had plans last night. So I was like catching bits and pieces. And I got home just as the Niners were getting down near the goal line in that possession.

I was like, all right, here we go. I got home just in time for the best part of the game. And then Drake Thomas makes this incredible play. And I was like, damn, never mind, Seahawks are going to win. So it sounds weird to say about a game where they were so dominant, but that's two big inflection points where this could have looked a lot different. We've talked about this all year. I think this can be just kind of the last thought about this game.

No one is complete top to bottom. No one. Everyone's got their warts. Everyone's got something that you're a little bit worried about. and I still think that, you know, the Seahawks offense, as we've gotten deeper into the season, we've seen kind of the flaws and the limitations of what they are on that side of the ball. But every single team has some version of that. And the Seahawks still offensively have been a better than average team, a good team for most of the year.

And if the defense is going to be playing like this and the special teams, they always get this quiet value from special teams almost every single game, they still are the most complete team, in my opinion. when you think about all three phases and what they are in totality. And that I do think is like what makes them feel a little bit different to me than like the Texans. Like the Seahawks offense, even if they're a little bit frustrating sometimes, they still do have some pretty good games and they can't put up points against like. Whereas with the Texans, it's like when they have good games, you feel like,

not that they got lucky, but you consistently feel like, I'd do it again. You need to prove it to me. Whereas like the Seahawks have enough to fall back on with some of those good games. You're like, maybe they can shrink together if you in the playoffs and get hot. I know we're going to cover this and we're going to do an award show later this week and we can talk about it in greater detail there. But like, holy shit, man. Like the biggest, the biggest believers in the Seahawks outside of that fan base were like at the, I mean, and there were some people, you were, you were high on the Seahawks before the season. But even then it was as like, we're not talking enough about this team.

This could be a sneaky good team. And they're 14 and 3, they just earned the bye week. And what a, just every. decision they made from John Schneider to Mike McDonald on down. Like the way that it's paid off is so cool. We're going to talk about it this week. I mean, we're going to hit all of that stuff. Where I was with the Seahawks, I remember sitting there in Renton in late July,

talking to Michael Sean Dugar in like a back room in their media room talking about the outlook for this team. I think a lot of people believe this could be the best defense in the league. And they were the best defense in the league. The defense is even better than you could have hoped because so many small. things contributed to this version of the defense. Hitting on Eminuari the way that they did is the skeleton key moment that allows them to become the exact type of defense they want to be. There's no way to know how much he's going to play, what role he's going to play.

Even if you think he's going to be there starting nickel from day one, do you think he's going to be good enough that it lets them live in nickel every single moment of every single game? Probably not. Take Lawrence as an aging player to get what they've gotten out of him this year that accelerates everything else about their front. So many different little things can't fall into place. But the defense, I think we could anticipate the defense being really good.

What I said to Michael Sean is, I don't know what the offense is going to be because how the fuck could you? There's no possible way for you to predict what this would be. I think they would be better up front than they were last year because the structure of the offense would lend to better offensive line play. When you have a marriage of the run in the past and you have a play action game that you can lean on, your offensive line play. play is set up for success in a way that last year wasn't.

But you still have personnel concerns. We still have no idea what the past catchers are going to be. JSN going from a good player to one of the best players in the league, that's something that's hard to predict. We don't know what Sam is going to be outside of Minnesota where he has that great support system. And so I said they could be the ninth best offense in the league. They could be the 27th best offense in the league.

They ended up becoming the 11th best offense in the league and the defense is what it is. That's how you get to be a 14-win team. And so even if you were high on them, I still think you had to acknowledge the potential range of outcomes. The range of outcomes was on the highest possible end it could have been for Seattle. Yeah, this is the best possible timeline thinking about that old community episode. And it's not over yet because this team is looking pretty damn good as we get into the playoffs. The other one here, the Carolina Panthers win the NFC South, win in quotation marks.

The fact that they lost that game yesterday and then they won the division today, I can't remember anything like it. I'm sure some weird thing has happened that's sort of analogous to it, but since I started doing this, I can't remember anything like it. Lost it in horrible fashion.

Yeah, yeah. Like if they lost like a 37-34, like, oh my God, went down to the wire kind of game, I could be like, you know what? They put it in a good effort. That was a disgusting performance. They had 19 rushing. It was bad.

19 rushing yards. How about that? Like the one thing I was most confident about from our preview, I was like, the bucks run defense hasn't been good in a month,

man, and then 1.4 yards. And it was over almost immediately. The first play of the game, Ikea Kuanu is like hanging onto a backside block too long and doesn't climb

to the linebacker. There's a run through for a tackle for loss. And then either the next play or on the next drive, Kalasha Kansi destroys, I think Austin Corbett. And just like,

he just jolts him back from the back where I was like, who is that? Because I forgot Elijah Kansi was playing. I did too. When I saw him playing, I was like, since he tore his peck, I think, in week two. Yeah, he's missed like the entire season. He got hurt in that Texans game in September.

I think a lot of people are going to go to what the refs were in this game for Carolina. I understand doing that. It was, I thought the, we know this. I don't talk a lot about officiating. I thought the officiating in this game from the start was just playing a bet. The first Elijah Roberts personal foul where he's just like, kind of running through the end of the play and they throw a 15-yard flag. I'm like, this is a playoff game.

And then almost immediately after that, we get a taunting call on Mike Jackson because there was like a big collision and he like kind of got in Baker's face. Yeah, Baker scrambled and he like mouthed off to him after the play. Like very normal. This is a playoff game. We're going to be throwing 15-yard flags on that. And then the T-Mack pass interference to me, I just am not calling that in this moment and this sort of game.

Like it's a physical play at the line of scrimmage. him being a lot stronger than that DB to me is not cause for throwing a flag. To play before that, you get a helmet thrown by a Panthers player. So a lot of those calls did go against the Panthers in what was a close game. If you are,

and the fact that they're in the playoffs, it matters less, if you're a Panthers fan and you're looking at the refs and not looking inward at the 14 for 19 rushing performance, you need to really think about why your team did not win this game.

That's one of those in almost every case. Sure, you can get mad at the refs, but you should simply be good enough that the refs are not enough of a factor. The Panthers have failed to score 17 points in more than half of their games.

That cannot be true for any other playoff team ever. That's insane. That I don't know the answer to, but I will, I'll meet you here. The Panthers point differential finished at negative 69. They are the fourth worst point differential to make the playoffs since

the merger, along with the 05.5. Rams, the 2010 Seahawks, and the Tim Tebow, 2011 Broncos. Now, the fun part about that is the other three all won their wildcard game. So don't write off the Panthers just yet. And they play, the funniest part about this is, the 8 and 9 NFC South winning Panthers are playing the Los Angeles Rams, who even if there were some down moments over the final few weeks of the season, I think you could absolutely make an argument that they're the best team in the league, but they also happen to lose to the Panthers earlier this year.

So that game has just some layers to it and some intrigue to it that a typical game between an eight and nine division winner and a five seed really good wildcard team probably would not. That's the perfect game where like in week 14 when a team like the Rams loses that, you're just like, they were being silly. They didn't really mean that. And now they have to play them again. And it's like, well, you better show up this time because it's the season's on the line.

know. Highlight of this whole thing for me was Baker Mayfield's wife live streaming his having to go through this hell and the buccaneers didn't get the result they needed. Tyler Shuck throws, had a really great run and then followed that up. He throws the interception to D. Alford that kind of seals this for the Falcons. If you're the Bucks and if you're Baker Mayfield, the same way you should play well enough to not have to rely on the refs to determine your season and the way that it goes, you usually. shouldn't have to play poorly enough to rely on,

not Tyler Shuck, because I think Tyler Shuck has been fine. He has. Tyler Shuck with the guys Tyler Shuck was playing with today. Oh my God. You should not have to rely on that for you to get into the playoffs if you're the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. We,

we know what's going on with every team in the league. And I really, one thing that drew me to this show before I was ever on it is, I mean, obviously we're going to focus on the better teams and the playoff teams, but we'll give you a reasonable idea of what's going. on with everybody. And some of these guys getting targeted in this Saints game, I have no problem admitting. I was like, who the, who? Who? Who the hell was that? What is Tyler Schock working with

today? Well, they're all guys that, except for Kevin Austin. Like, when Kevin Austin was getting targets a couple weeks ago, I was like, I don't know who that is. But the other guys in this game, they're just throwbacks to like other moments of your time covering the NFL. Like, I remember when Audrick Estime was like a draft community darling in the middle rounds, right? I He's had some moments for the Saints over the last few weeks. I remember when Samari Toure had a little bit of run with the Packers. I remember, again, when Evan Hull was like one of those guys where it's like, oh, Evan Holt's got a little something to him as like a sixth round pick or whatever.

I remember when Dante Pettis was that second round kind of route running Maven that you like, oh, I could see a path for a guy like that. So they're all guys. I think Ronnie Bell caught the touchdown. They got them close. I remember when he was on the Niners, I was like, maybe a little late round steal. Naim Hines played in this game for the Saints. They're all guys that you were probably aware of at some point.

I'm not sure, like I said, if you're the Bucks, you should be relying on them to win you a football game in 2026. It's 2026, by the way. Oh, that's a good point. Ture was the one for me where I was like, oh, man, I haven't heard about him since his Stint with the Packers went sideways. I don't know what else we have to say about the end of the Bucks season. We've kind of said it all.

it is a really depressing end to the season. And them winning that game against the Panthers, I don't think really changes anything about that conversation. It's not like they dominated that game or anything either. Like they dominated insofar as like the Panthers never really got themselves into it. But I just, they didn't win that in like super convincing fashion to me. I'll be very curious what the changes look like

for that team heading into next year. Is that going to be a situation where they look at Josh Grasard and they think that he's scapegoat might be strong, but he's an easy person where you can lay this at his feet. beat. We're going to make some changes to the offensive staff. We're going to be better there next year. We're going to be healthier along the offensive line. It's going to get us a better version of Baker.

We're going to be right back to where we were in 2024. I could see them trying to make that set of arguments, whether you believe in that set of arguments and you think that there isn't something a little bit deeper that is maybe rotting with what the Todd Bulls bucks look like. That's up to you. I don't think I'm ready to. I need time to dive in. to all of that because like part of me

part of me thinks you know with a little bit of better health and I mean I think the Bucks defense needs to be overhauled I mean they started it this year with their secondary but you got to you got to do something about the front seven and Tampa and even I mean even guys that you've relied on for for so long like Vita Vaya are getting older and I mean great timing to bring up Colizia can see

you lose him for the vast majority of the season but that needs to be retooled. Like for Todd Bowles to have the reputation that he has, whether you think he deserves it or not, the defense falling apart was more damning to me than the offense because I could point to a whole bunch of reasons why the offense never really kicked back into gear after like the first five or six weeks.

Here's what I'm worried about. My concern is, I think even an optimistic spin of this buck season is, well, it's kind of like a less lucky version of the 2020 season. What were they really in 2023? Is that something to get overly excited about? When I think about what the bucks have been

over the last three years, it does feel like this was kind of a version of them more akin to the 2020 version. And that last year was the outlier version. When you have a guy who has clearly shown to be in Liam Cohen, a difference-making play caller, and if you're just going to be back to the 2023 version with no appreciable progress,

from that, where does that leave you? I don't think that's worth being excited about it. Because that's the thing. 2023 was like found money because you got Baker Mayfield basically off of the scrap heap and he becomes like a starting quarterback for you. Like that was a different consideration than kind of ending up there now after what you saw he was capable of last year. Okay. I love where this is with the Bucks and who they played this weekend and who they

were fighting to win the division for because, and I agree with everything you all just said. But it's, what do you always say, Robert? it can always be worse. Like it's, it is a special type of hell to always be a seven to 10 win team and like kind of like the Steelers. Like you're in the mix,

but nobody takes you seriously and you cannot provide the reason why anybody should. And I get that that's frustrating. And I think as a fan, it's totally fair if you aspire to more than that. The Panthers just won the division for the first time since 2015

and this is the first time since 2019 that they're not picking in the top 10. So like it can be a hell of a lot worse than being stuck in that weird purgatory of being a decent team. And I don't know, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't seek to be better. I'm just saying you could do that and wind up in an even worse situation than you are right now. Yeah, I just, I think that there are two different situations, right? The Steelers won.

I think if you really wanted to make the argument for why the Steelers could eventually bust out of this, the Steelers have not committed to a quarterback plan post-Ben Rothesburg. Like, if you for whatever, I'm trying to think of the right example, let's Tower Shuck, right? I don't know how good Tower Shuck is going to be. But let's just say that the Steelers in this draft or the next draft find their Tyler Shuck. And enough stuff remains consistent about the Steelers where they are this nine-win team

and then they find the right quarterback that can help them break through. That could potentially be on the horizon. With the bucks, you have the quarterback in place. You've committed to this quarterback plan. The play caller seems to be the thing offensively with the bucks that you need to get to that place and to be that sort of team. And maybe that's enough.

Maybe if they find the right guy on that side again, it takes them where they need to go. But should that be necessary? Like, should you need Liam Cohen every time over? Because, or are the limitations of the team and the offense outside of that enough for you to say, this just isn't good enough. I think that there are some similarities

because I think that that idea of we're just going to kind of hang around the middle and then maybe we'll have that year where X, Y, or Z is good enough to push us through and accelerate us. I think that's a dangerous thing where you're sitting there hoping and waiting that that's going to happen.

I get, yes, I agree with you. And we've mentioned it on shows in the last couple weeks where seeing what Cohen did for the Jags in year one, that's demoralizing. if you care about the Tampa Bay Buckner. Yes. And I get it.

Like I said, the fear of it being worse doesn't mean you shouldn't try. But then there's the cynical side of this too where we know Todd Bulls just sign an extension over the summer and NFL team owners often don't love paying people to go away, at least not this many years out.

I don't think that they should change anything. I don't think Todd Bulls should lose his job. I think I'm just at a place with the bucks where what reasons do we have really to believe this is going to be different next year? It did this. And I mean, you can go back and find me throughout the summer getting hyped about the bucks and thinking this could be a year they became something more. And for it to fall as flat as it did, yeah, it kind of kills your confidence that.

I mean, and maybe they'll get better injury luck next year and they could be a better team. But like ascending on to another level in the hierarchy of the NFL, that's kind of hard to buy right now. I think kind of to what you're saying a little bit, Robert, I think even if they get healthy next year and they get to 90% of what they were in 2024, the offense gets you back to a really good spot, but then if the defense doesn't take any sort of step, you're still like probably a 10-win team

that kind of gets into this wild card and has like a whatever season. The defense, I'm kind of with Dave, like the front talent needs to change. Like they had some of the worst linebackers in the league. Obviously, you lose Colaja Canteen. You don't really have as much pop on your defensive lines as I think you would like.

And even though they signed Hassan Redick, like I think that they still need a lot of pass rest of the secondary to some degree which I like but I think I've said before and Todd Bull's defense has some of its issues like I think you can get them in certain stuff like especially if you get into base and you can run the ball on them

he's not going to have his fun stuff but I do think that it is I'm willing to give them one more offseason of like can you fix the front talent on the front seven and then we'll see if we end up in the same eight and nine nine and eight spot again I think that's a good thing to bring up because the idea of watching

Liam Cohn be depressing as a bucks fan I can understand that. I also think watching Mike McDonald will be depressing as a Bucks fan. Because if you get the talent to a place that you feel good about and the defense still isn't good enough, we arrive at a place, like it's a joke I made like a month ago. What would you say you do here, Todd? Like if the defense isn't good enough,

like that's where you need to be making an appreciable difference. And if that doesn't happen and we feel good enough, and the question right now is, is the personnel good enough for you to come to that conclusion? And it might be no. But if they can get the personnel to a slightly better place and the defense is still falling short, then we're at a place where we got offensive coaches

that are doing everything they can to maximize their side of the ball, and we got defensive coaches that are doing everything they can to maximize their side of the ball. If the bucks are getting none of those things, what type of decisions that the bucks need to do and to make and what sort of conclusions they need to come to? With the Panthers on a big picture level, we're going to have this conversation over the next couple weeks.

I don't want to diminish the fact that the Panthers won the NFC South. They actually did do that, and they took a considerable stuff, forward in a lot of ways as an organization. I think what you said on the previous show is exactly right. They paid for the defense to get from historically bad to acceptable. That happened. We've seen that all year, and I think that there's some young pieces that you can get

excited about, whether that's second contract free agents like Trevin Merrig, guys like Nick Scorton. I think that we do have, and Derek Brown, like, kind of really showing us what he can be as part of a better unit. Obviously, he was hurt all year last year. There are some things on that side of the ball where it's like, okay, We're moving in the right direction. Offensively, you have some proof of concept.

You didn't yesterday, but over the course of the year that you can run the ball on your terms, that can be the foundation of who you are. We know that T-MAC is going to be a really good player. There is a lot to like. I still think that they have a very long way to go. The quarterback is a massive question mark that I'm sure we'll talk about over the next week. But in terms of the overall trajectory and the arc of the franchise, getting to a point where you are 8-9 and you are going to be playing in the playoffs,

based on where you've been is a huge achievement. It should not be diminished just because the way that this thing unfolded was kind of weird and wet and gross. I'm just going to prefer to think of, and I'm not writing them off in the playoffs either. I mean, they beat the Rams in Charlotte already this year, but I'm going to think about the Green Bay game and the Rams game and the first Bucks game, not so much this one that just happened.

And yeah, there weren't some legitimately really good, really fun moments for this team. even if it was weird at the end, an unmitigated success for a franchise that's been through it over the last 10 years. No, it's not. It's almost like we feel worse about them because they have to play a playoff game.

That they like don't deserve to. I hope that, Ari, I hope our final impression is, exactly, because they don't get smeared off the field against the Rams. If we, if we said coming into the year, the Panthers would be eight and nine and the offense would mostly have proof of concept, they maybe just need to change the quarterback.

and the defense got better. We'd all be like, well, yeah, they accomplished all their goals, checked all their boxes. It's just that like now that they have to play a weird playoff game that they probably don't deserve because the bucks were bad. And the fact that they lost, yes, it's just like... It makes it feel worse than it probably deserves

if you look at the whole scope of the season. Exactly. And I can understand Panthers fans being frustrated by the tone of this conversation, but it's an admittedly weird set of circumstances. Like, it's hard to work through in a way that feels correct. And I think that's kind of where I am with it. To wrap this whole thing up, we should mention the team that won to seal this whole thing

fired their coach and GM after it was all for said it done. So just to be, to be clear, one of the reasons we're not talking about that, Derek and I are going to hit all of the firing news, the hiring, not hiring news, I don't think. The fire news. The news about the hiring processes in Atlanta, because we've already heard about that, some of the retention news. That's going to be the hangover tomorrow, is that we're just going to sit with everything that we've heard about the coaching cycle.

And so we will talk about what happened with Rahim Morris and Terry Fontenow tomorrow and into the show on Tuesday. So I encourage you guys to check that out. All right. No WTF today because nothing in Week 18 can rise to the level of me carrying that much to say what the fuck about it. So we're just going to spend a little bit of time here as we get to the end of the show talking about what the playoff field looks like now that we have all the seatings in place

and what the wild card round schedule is. And then now we have the top of the draft as well. All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break. So playoffs are set. Broncos hold on to the number one seed. They get the buy next week. Patriots are playing the Chargers in the 27 game.

Jags and the Bills in the 3-6 game. Obviously talked about the Steelers Texans already. The Seahawks have the buy in the first round. The Bears get the Packers in the 27 game because the Eagles lost to Washington. The Eagles, when the Eagles, now get the Niners and then the Panthers play the Rams. Not surprised at all that the Rams Panthers game is the 430 on Saturday wild card game. Just want to say, congratulations to the

Houston, Texas for graduating. Congratulations to you guys. The fact that you are not in that spot just says, I don't know if it says a lot about you, but it says a lot about the state of the rest of the playoffs this year. They even got their own day on Monday. Yeah. How about that? That is to go from the nobody wants this 3.30 Saturday kickoff to Monday. night football, standalone, all eyes on you. Like, that's a hell of a leap. Good for them.

The Rams Panthers game exactly where it should be. I do not love the fact that we have to watch the Bears Packers game. And just for you guys, so you know, we're going to be doing live recaps on Saturday and Sunday in the Wildcar

round in the divisional round. So we're going to be watching Bears Packers. And then I will immediately have to come sit at this table and talk about it with you guys, which I'm not really. looking forward to. I'm extremely looking forward to. I'm glad I'm back. But what if it goes well and you live forever? There is a zero percent chance that the game is lopsided enough for me to not be in a completely disheveled state by the time we're recording. If they win, I think it's probably going to

be close enough where I'm not doing well by the time we get there. I'm, but I mean, selfishly, that'll be good podcasting. Yes. The content will be well served. I'm not sure I'm going to be better off for it. Probably not. There's no other way this could be for the Chicago Bears and what they've put you through this year. So obviously there's a ton of intrigue in that game based on the fact that we've seen that game twice already.

It's been close both times. We'll talk about this a lot over the next week. To me, it has the widest range of emotional outcomes for Bears fans because losing to the Packers in that game and then having to hear about it for the entire offseason is just a miserable potentiality, like a miserable one. but beating the Packers in a situation like this would be incredibly satisfying for Bears fans. And so if you lose to the Niners

in the exact game you played on Sunday night football, everyone's kind of like, oh, okay, fun season. That's not what this is. In any way, that's not what this is. I have no skin in the game, but I would rather drink bleach than play my biggest rival in the game. That's kind of how I'm feeling right now. No, thank you.

That's kind of how I'm feeling right now. The rest of the slate, I think my two favorite games, because there's no way Bears Packers is going to be my favorite game for exactly the reason that you just said. Bill's Jags and Niners Eagles are bangers of wildcard weekend games. Like absolute bangers. Do we have lines on those games yet, Beller? No, we can keep talking. But those, I think those two games are just, those are like absolute bangers of wildcard games.

I really think, and it's a valid criticism that sometimes I can be prisoner to the moment. I guess I'd have to go back and look at all of them. but typically since we expanded to seven teams on each side and added the two extra games, like you can kind of look at one and just be like, all right, I'm not feeling this. And ironically, that game wound up being really good, but like the Bill's Dolphins game a few years ago

where the Dolphins had to start Skyler Thornton, the Bill's Steelers game a couple of years. Tyler Thompson. I mean, whatever. The Bill's Steelers game, really most of the game, the Steelers played the Chiefs one time. Like most of the games that involved the Steelers,

I'm not usually that interested. No. But this one, I am. I legitimately am. Like, I think this could be a really interesting matchup because of what we've seen from the Texans offense. With the Texans offensive line gives you, it puts a lot of things in the table.

Yeah, these two fronts have a chance to take over this game. Like, I'm way more into the Steelers game than I typically would be. And I think Justin Herbert, that Patriots defense, like, gives him a chance to play Superman, I think. and the Panthers have already beaten the Rams this year. So I can get on board with that. Like, I don't look at a single game on this slate and just kind of hand-wave it. Even, you know, like I expect the Rams to win that game, but I'm more into it than I think the average person would think.

Let me give you these lines, Bills minus one, Eagles, minus three and a half. I mean, that's good shit. Yeah. I mean, the Eagles are at home and the bills are on the road. These are incredibly close matchups. Bill's Jags is almost part of me. And we were saying this is it became clear those teams are going to play. against each other.

There's part of me that's like a little bit bummed one of those teams has to lose. Yes. They're like one of those teams has to lose on wildcard weekend. So this actually, I'm going to be a nerd for a second. And e-sports happens a lot where like in the quarter finals,

everyone is like, that's the real finals. And they just, they just, the way that the bracket turns out. You think those jack is the real an AFC championship game? That's a crazy thing to say.

It's not that far from it. I don't think. The Jacks are the three-seat. Why is that that crazy? It's the three-seat against Josh Howard. I guess I can find. It's really not that insane. No, it's insane.

Josh Allen against the Jags is the real AFC championship game is one of the most Derek class encoded things that's ever been said on this podcast. But at this point, I kind of stand on it. You just have to respect it. And then Niners Eagles, the Niners' offense, again, outside of any team they played other than the Seahawks has left phenomenal recently.

But the Niners defense is bad enough, especially up front where you can imagine the Eagles' offensive line just winning that game in full force. then the Eagles defense is a really good unit. Like I think the Eagles defense could give the Niners' offense problems where a lot of defenses can out right now. And honestly, Brock Pretty having to play outside in the cold in January, like there's like a little bit of something to that.

I will meet you here. And I think I said this pretty early in the day today. Like March Madness in basketball, you know, there's always like a three seed where people are like, oh yeah, but like they're playing the best ball. Like they're so much better than people realize. if you removed what we know contextually about the Jags

like if you just wiped their logo away the way their quarterbacks played for most of the last six weeks their defense their play call. But you can't remove the context of who the Jags are from the conversation. You just, you can't be like,

oh, they're not a cursed schizophrenic franchise anymore now that they're in the playoffs. That's not how it works. They are a different team now that Jacoby Myers is in the building and that is what I choose to believe. That is the reality that I live in. You know what?

I don't think that's unfoundary. I really don't. I hope you're right. And I'm sneakily pretty in on the Jags, but I just, I can't get all the way to fully trusting them. Well, plenty of time to talk about all of those matchups. Just so you guys know this week, we're going to be doing the same thing we've done for the last couple of years.

We're going to be splitting our wild card preview and the divisional round preview into two different shows. And so point point, point, there's be a shitload of podcast and you guys just be on the lookout for that because we're going to be doing two previews, with six games split across two shows. And like I said earlier, we're going to have a Saturday recap

that we're going to be doing live after the Saturday games and then a Sunday recap that we're going to be doing live after the Sunday games. We're going to have it for the wild card round and the divisional round. I joke that it's a lot of podcasts.

This is my favorite time of the year to do the athletic football show. It always has been. Like getting to just zero in and giving these games the treatment and the attention that they deserve both before and after, I do not enjoy doing the show more

than I do. during Wild Card and Divisional weekend. So I am pumped about what this is going to look like. It makes having done it and grinded for 18 weeks, like extremely worth it. This is the best time of the year. Monday recap too. Don't forget about that. And the Monday night recap too.

So we're going to be doing that. And then we'll talk about this a lot in the meantime until we get there. But that Monday recap will be available in audio form in your guys' podcast feeds, unlike some of the Monday night football recaps we typically just do on YouTube. The other housekeeping thing that happened today that we should hit before we get out of here because massive implications from week 18 is what the draft order now looks like. We knew that the Raiders were going to have the number one pick. Congratulations to the Las Vegas Raiders.

The New York Jets are now the owners of the number two pick after the Giants win over the Cowboys in week 18. So the Jets are going to be in a position where, and tons of time to talk about this, start checking out building the Beast if you have not. If this is a two-quarterback draft, the Jets will be in a position where they have to give up nothing to draft that quarterback with one of their 10,000 picks that they have. So the Jets are now at two.

The Giants are now down at five. So congratulations on that win against the Cowboys. And then the commanders dropped down, I think, two spots. They were picking fifth. They're now picking seventh because that went over the Eagles.

And then the ones that are interesting to me, the Saints now, the Chiefs have a top 10 pick now. The Chiefs are picking in the top 10. And while that is sad, if you're a Chiefs fan, Like you've had to endure what is a miserable football season relative to expectations and relative to what you're used to.

When you're one of these teams, getting that season where you just have a nightmare year out of nowhere and instead of picking 31st and pulling from that talent pool, you get to pick in the top 10, the Eagles have done this consistently, where the Eagles have these bad seasons mixed in with them going to the Super Bowl. And ultimately, that's good for the long-term health of your franchise because you can take Jalen Carter.

like this has the chance to be that for the Chiefs now. I'm a thousand percent positive Chiefs fans have our like the minute, probably before this Raiders game went final. Hopefully you didn't watch too much of it. There's nothing good waiting for you there. But I'm positive Chiefs fans have already moved on to the copium of like Jordan Tyson,

Carnell Tate, Caleb Downs, freaking who, take your pick, Arvel Reese, maybe for some reason he lasts all the way to number nine. the caliber of player that is available to the chiefs. I mean, it's wild to think about. I mean,

what if I told you in August that the chiefs and saints would be picking back to back? Would you think the Saints went on a miracle? I don't know how I would have fit that puzzle together. You think the same thing on a miracle run or the chiefs had it all fall apart? That's absolutely beautiful. But yeah, I mean, I think about the two guys that come to mind for me,

I don't know exactly how they ended up with these picks and I would have to look back at it because all the trades, the Eagles always had picks coming out of the woodwork. But Devante Smith, right? Like Devante Smith, that was the year where they ultimately trade down and they end up getting to Dallas. And so it's not always a bad thing long term to have a season like this if you were in a position like the chiefs are.

So congratulations to the Kansas City Chiefs on their top 10 pick. That's the way the top 10 looks right now. We will once again, we will talk about all of the coaching news tomorrow as we get a little bit more information. Obviously, the Falcons head coach and GM jobs are now open. We know that the Giants job is open. We know the Titans job is open. Plenty more to come down in the next 24 hours or so.

So before we get out of here, let's talk about what made us feel romantic about football in week 18. I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty. I think all of us can comfortably say that Miles Garrett breaking the sack record is a moment that makes you feel romantic about football. And the play where he did it

to me is just it's everything that makes Miles Garrett or Miles Garrett is. So the left tackle for the Bengals, Orlando Brown Jr. On that play, he's early in the way that Jawan Taylor has been early for years, right? Like, he times it up very well, but Jowon Taylor gets a fantastic jump on,

or Orlando Brown gets a fantastic jump on that play. Miles is not looking at the ball. He goes off, I keep talking with Juan Taylor. He goes off Orlando Brown's movement. And so his jump, even if Orlando Brown got a great jump ahead of the snap, Miles gets the exact same jump because he's going off of his movement. So he explodes off the ball to crazy get off.

The bend that that man gets at 6.5, 280 pounds, and the flexibility to turn the corner and get back to the quarterback to finish that playoff, it's a reminder, and this entire season has been a reminder, he's an all-time player. He is an all-time freak show talent in this league, the way that he moves, how productive he has been, he's been the best defensive player of football for a while now.

And so for him to have a historic season for a historic talent in the NFL, despite how Don Trout and the Browns have been, it's hard not to feel pretty good about Miles Garrett now having this jewel in his crown and what is a first ballot, no doubt about it, legendary Hall of Fame career. I'm just glad that it's cemented. Like, and we can, you know, we can do the always he did it in 17. I don't really care. He is number one on the list now, and that to me, that means a lot.

Because, again, he is, I've said it before. If we want to say that, like, overall, Aaron Donald's better, JJ, well, I don't really care. The best pure edge rusher off the edge that I've ever seen is that guy. And so for him to end it in very typical Biles Garrett fashion where he's bending in a way that 280 pounds should never really be able to bend the corner to me is, is absolutely perfect. Like, I just thought he's such a phenomenal player. And for him to get it is awesome. I also love, like, when a guy has those types of expectations placed on, number one overall pick.

And like a guy that's, we were pretty confident going into that draft. Like, that was a year where it was like, okay, well, the draft starts after Miles, you know? And like to deliver on that, and obviously, you know, the Browns haven't had the team success that, that I'm sure they were imagining when they drafted Miles and Baker back to back. But he has delivered on every bit of the hype that goes with that type of pick. In a way that there's been plenty of good number one overall picks, but to like to really just check every box and completely look and be the part is, is,

is, makes it impressive and special. It's almost impossible to outplay the hype as one of those like generational number one overall picks. And he's done it. Like he's the most productive pastor. A pastor has ever been for someone his age. And now he's has now the sack record. Like he just,

there's really for him to do that to have all the hype and truly deliver on it. over and over and over again I can't get enough how good he is. I started doing this professionally covering the league in 2011, 2012. The three guys defensively who stand completely apart of anybody that I've watched

are Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, and Miles Carey. Those are the three guys. They are in a completely different tier and conversation than anybody else. And so for him to have this sort of all-time season, it is fitting for the type of player that we're talking about. All right, Derek, what made you feel romantic in week 18?

Honestly, Cam Little. So Cam Little is... Special Teams Matter. I'm becoming the special teams guy in week 18. So Cam Little, he kicked a 67-yard field goal in this game. And that is not the NFL record, but it is now the NFL record for a kick outside, which is incredible. And the reason why this made me romantic is we are in a year especially,

where it almost feels like we've become numb to kickers kicking these like 58, 59, 62-yard field goals where it seems like it happens every week. For a guy to outside make a kick where I'm like, holy shit, I can't believe he did that. And he like draws the ball from outside the right crossbar and then like curves it back into dead middle. And it's just like...

He bent it like Beckham. I could not believe that he did that. And it's again... He made it look easy. He made it look like. He had a couple of yards. to go if you really needed it. And for, again, we are in an era where it feels like you can almost be numb to how good

some of these kickers are. And he, in that moment, like, I was, I was shocked that he made that. I guess of, like, of all the cities where you would want to be setting a record like that outdoors in January, like Jacksonville is a good place to be. Yeah. But you're still kicking outdoors in January. I mean, it's like 50 degrees. I know that's, that's not Cleveland or anything.

But yeah, incredible. And he now has the top two, right? He set the record period earlier this year. Nice season. What made me feel romantic about football in Week 18 is that the Jets did not intercept a pass in this game. It's going to be one of my favorite statistical anomalies or maybe just feats, let's call it a feat,

that I've seen since I started caring about this sport. Teams attempted 515 passes against the New York Jets this season. 515, they finished with zero interceptions. There's never been a season where a team finished with one interception. The next lowest total is two. That was it. Every team in NFL history since they started recording interceptions has had at least two of them defensively in a season. The Jets had zero over the course of this entire year.

It's impossible. Like it's just based on sheer luck. I watched the Bears have another one today where it's just one random tipped overthrow and it turns into an interception. The fact that that didn't happen, one. time in 515 pass attempts, it should not be possible. An abysmal season getting interceptions is like you stumble into four of them or five. Like none at all. And honestly, the first place my brain goes is that just means like week one of next year they're going to get two.

Yeah, absolutely. It's going to be like a dominance. They're going to roll them over into next year and they're going to have like 30. Here's my favorite part of this is that typically when you have a team. very good example of this. I believe the 2024 Browns only have like four interceptions. And then this year the defense was much better

than it was in 2024. Turnover regression is one of the most obvious possible things that you can point to for a team to either perform better or worse than they did the year before. The jets are so bad that the competing forces of turnover regression

and organizational ineptitude on the other side and the push and pull that will come from that about how much better we should expect the Jets to be if they get 10 interceptions next year, it's going to be a confusing offseason trying to sort through all of that

and trying to comb through all of that. I'm looking forward to it. You have to be some degree of better, but it's... But how much better is technically exponentially better. Exactly. One is technically exponentially better, but like it just, that doesn't really help. They lost five stray games by at least 21 points.

Not great. I think they were outscored like by 134 points over the last like five or six games of the season. I get why Aaron Glenn is coming back. one and done is tough. Your team that's had a ton of turnover. We talked about it last week when we did the silver linings. It's hard to find one with the Jets.

It's really difficult to be excited about anything happening with the New York Jets. Picks. Picks, Robert. Maybe come find us on Building the Beast. Jets fans. Maybe Dante Moore is enough for you to feel really good about where the Jets are going. Sometimes a quarterback is enough for that to happen. But my God.

I was going to say when you brought up the draft earlier, Friday night, Fernando Mendoza rematching. against Dante Moore. So you got both of the big quarterbacks in one game. If you're a Jets fan, that's all you need. You better be tuned in. You check out to Fernandez-Mendezza-Dante Moore. Dave, what made you feel romantic about football in Week 18?

I had a moment of connection over the weekend. And I mean, we love talking about football. And, you know, we have great channels for doing that. But something really cool about, like, getting out into the world. And, like, we sit on these microphones most of the time. watch these games in very controlled environments. And whatever it was a month ago when the Bears beat the Packers, Robert got to have that cool moment at a bar for the Caleb pass. And it wasn't as euphoric, obviously, but I just had, I had a really cool moment. I, you know, I already, I had plans

on Saturday. It was my fiance's birthday. So we had a whole thing planned. And we wound up in a bar on Saturday evening for the end of the Bucks Panthers game. And no TV's in the bar. It wasn't a sports bar. So what did I do? I obviously threw the game up on my phone. And we're sitting there. We're watching like the last five, six minutes of this game talking amongst ourselves. And the bartender, we had not exchanged a word all like he just saw the phone propped up on like my water glass. And he just goes, who's got the ball? And I was like the Bucks and no, I was like the Panthers. They're driving. And he's like, what happened to the Bucks? Like they were down in the red zone. I was like, their field goal got blocked.

He was like, oh my God. And so we started talking. He's like, I'm from Charlotte. I'm a diehard Panthers fan. And I am dying. And I don't have a TV. Yeah. And like my,

I can feel my phone buzzing and I'm in hell. And so like I just talked him through the rest of the game. And it ended and obviously they lost me and my fiancee were like, sorry, man. They didn't pull through for you. He's like, that's all right, man. Like the Falcons play tomorrow. Like we could still get this.

And honestly, with what we've been through, I'm just, I'm just happy to be here. And it was just, it was a cool moment of connection where, and it's, there's so many reasons to love football, but the way that you can immediately have common ground with somebody like that where we were just simpatico for the rest of the next like 20 minutes. It was, it was really cool. And like the scheme and the managing of the rosters is all really fun. But like the human connection element is, it's so cool. And we, you know, it's a first world problem, but we don't get that as much as maybe we did before we started podcasting about it.

Absolutely. It's cool to get the reminder. It honestly, my first initial reaction to that is it makes me excited for the live show on Wednesday. I'm excited to do it. I'm excited to meet some folks. I'm excited to hang out and chat about it after. And I'm excited to just chat with you guys because that part is why this is fun. It's because the game and the sport and how much we care about it is like an ultimate point of connection.

And so getting to lean into that stuff as often as we can, there's very little that's better than that. Shout out. Shout out to Jacob. I'm glad the Panthers made it into the postseason. I was all throughout the Saints Falcons game. I was wondering like where he was watching the game. We're going to wind things down here with what we learned in week 18. I think I've learned something today. I learned Jack's shit.

Clayton too. Clayton Tune played a game where he did not attempt to pass beyond the line of scrimmage. There is nothing to be learned in week 18. Like let's just be clear about this. Even the teams like, I like the Bears game, right? The Bears theoretically have something on the line, but like, you've already made the playoffs. Like, you know that it doesn't, the one seats off the table. The one seat's off the table.

It doesn't really matter if the Eagles lose. Like, week 18 is weird as hell every single week, every single year. We don't have to like think too much about a lot of the things that went down today other than the if you win you're in or if you lose, you lose games. And we talked about plenty of those at the top. What we did learn today, though, that does matter is the Derek official. lost the wins pool. Oh wow, I had forgotten. The Steelers Ravens game was so... I didn't forget. I know, I'm sorry. The Steelers Ravens game was so crazy. It like took my mind off of it. Thank God I clinched before that because like the Ravens are my team and of course they let me

down one more time before the season was over. I'm so glad that I didn't have to give a shit about this for the last like eight weeks. I'm so so glad. This is the third year that we've done it. It is the first year that I have not lost. And so Derek is the one who will be paying off the bet when we get to Radio Row. This year is a little bit different. We solicited the punishment from you guys earlier in the season. The punishment is Derek will have to dress up like a super fan of the team that did him in the worst

in his group of seven. And I think we've decided it is the Kansas City Chiefs, correct? I mean, objectively, it kind of has to. If we're just doing, like, who took away the most wins based on what you thought preseason, it's pretty comfortably the Kansas City Chiefs. So we're workshopping what this is. is going to look like, but at least one day when we are in a professional space surrounded by

all of the people that we know and respect in our line of work, Derek is going to look like an asshole. You hear that's the pain of a man who had to do this. I've done it twice. Can I say, you saying that you didn't have to worry about this? I think when, I think the week or two leading up to the Super Bowl, I will start freaking out about this again. I feel better now than I have the last like three weeks

when I was really debating whether or not I could win this when I realized when I think the Jets losing and the Lions winning completely took me out I was like all right my fate is sealed I don't have to think about Raven Steelers it is what it is See that's the funny thing I feel like a jerk because I mentally gave up like a month ago

I was like, it's done. Oh, no, I was tracking every week. I hadn't checked in on it. And then like preparing for last week's show, I was like, oh shit, the Saints have won like five games in a row and the Titans have won a couple. Like, I'm in better shape than I thought I was. And then when I started feeling good when the Vikings, when I knew Clayton Toon was going to be playing for the Packers, basically, I was like, all right, I got a shot. And you know where the Chiefs really got me? If the Chiefs had beaten the Titans, I'm pretty sure I'm fine.

I'm pretty sure I win by half of a game. I think. I might be doing the math wrong or it would at least been closer, but like that game really got me bad. Here's the thing, though. On Radio Row, if you're dressed as like a super fan of a team, you're not going to stand out that much compared to some of the other weirdness that happens on Radio Row.

The last two years, like the people who are working, they're not going to think twice about you. They're not going to be like, oh man, this guy's dressed weird. I got looks and questions from every single person in that convention center because I was dressed as a goddamn hot dog. And so in fact that you don't have to do that. I think you're getting off easy. This is like some real we had to walk uphill to school, barefoot in the snow. That's exactly what it is.

Your traumatizing experience wasn't as bad as mine. I think for me, because I feel that way about the hot dog one, the last year's the face paint one doesn't trip me out about it. And I think what I realized what it is. I was picking glitter out of my clothes for weeks. That's fine. That's fine. There's something about the face paint, I think is kind of funny. I think it's the putting on the costume that makes me feel extra like a clown. I think that that's what's getting me. It's the putting shit on. I know. You didn't want to feel like a clown. I shouldn't have drafted the Kansas City Chiefs,

which is a crazy thing to be saying. But here we are. Who could we, who could we like interview or wind up talking to that would just make Derek hate himself the most? I'm trying to remember. Is it Trevor? I talked to Jordan Love last year, which if I had to do that now, as a chief secret fan would be like a little bit mortifying, yeah. Last year, the first thing I had to do with the unicorn face paint, I walk into Radio Rail looking like that and I have to have like a serious conversation

with Michael Pittman. It was the first thing I had to do. And so I'm really looking forward to whatever that version is for you this year. We're going to get something good. All right. That is all we've got from week 18. Like I said, a lot of stuff

coming your guys away this week. We're going to have a Black Monday breakdown tomorrow with me and Derek recapping all of the coaching news in the typical Monday hangover slot, building the beast coming your way. It's regularly scheduled time. If you are not listening to Building the Beast,

especially if you were a fan of these teams picking in the top 10, it's time. It is officially draft season for you. And so Dave and Dane are coming to you weekly all the way through the draft, the Combine, everything. So please start checking that out if you have not. And then we're going to be doing some midseason awards in the middle of this week,

which I am very much looking forward to, a lot of stuff to dig into. to there. Our live show is January 7th at Lincoln Hall in Chicago at 7.30 p.m. Doors are at 6.30. We still have some tickets available. There are only a few left. So if you are in the Chicago land area or you're within spitting distance and you want to come check that out, please do. We're very much looking forward to it. And then to round out the week, we got a two-part preview coming your guys way as we get to Wild Card weekend. It is the best time of the year in the NFL. And I am pumped to be getting there.

So for now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.