The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 6 Hangover: Brian Callahan fired, Packers and Rams post unimpressive wins, and sad voicemails from Eagles and 49ers fans

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

The AFC North feels like one big, collective hangover this season, so it's no surprise that both games in the Week 6 Hangover feature teams from the division. All four AFC North teams were going to be in this show, but Browns-Steelers landed on the cutting room floor when the Titans made Brian Callahan the first coach fired this season. That's where Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen begin this episode of The Athletic Football Show. After that, the guys recap Rams-Ravens and Bengals-Packers, and take sad voicemails from Eagles and 49ers fans.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)3:07 Titans fire Brian Callahan13:18 Rams-Ravens recap31:09 Bengals-Packers recap50:08 Monday Mourning: Why are the Eagles like this?54:45 Monday Mourning: Why can't the 49ers stay healthy?Connect with The Athletic Football ShowX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerVideo Producer: Katy DuffyAudio Producer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dave on X: @davehelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It's the week six hangover today. A little bit of a different schedule for this one because we got some news this morning. Promise last night we do three games. We're only going to hit two, unfortunately. Rams, Ravens, and Packers Bengals are the two games that I'm going to dig into with Derek Classen. And then the news this morning, Brian Callahan out as the head coach of the Tennessee Titans. So we started the show for a little download about what this means for this current Tennessee team, what it means for the and where it went wrong with the 2025 Titans. Finished it all off, getting to your Monday morning voicemails, trying to console a couple fan bases that have had a rough week after week six. So excited to dig into this conversation with Derek. Let's get to it. A little bit different today on the Monday hangover. We're only going to hit two games and then get to a little bit Monday morning

from your guys' sad phone calls after week six. Unfortunately, Derek, we have some news to hit at the top of this show. Brian Callahan out as the head coach of the Tennessee Titans after finishing with the worst record in the league last year. Tennessee off to a one and five start that is much closer to an 0 and six start, considering their only win comes against the Cardinals in a game where Arizona should have been up by like 18 points in the fourth quarter and then somehow lose that game. So not necessarily a surprise given how the first 23 games of the Brian Callahan tenure has gone, but still a pretty quick hook for the Tennessee Titans head. coach, your initial thoughts on Brian Callahan being done in Tennessee. Just disappointing. I mean, at this stage, it's obviously earned, right? For them to go one in five with first overall picket quarterback, like you thought you fixed the

offensive line, all this stuff. Like, they should have been a better, certainly a better unit on that side of the ball, but a better team overall. But I, you know, we came into this offseason a little bit. I don't know about optimistic, but I think we looked at what the offense was with Will Levis and we're like, you know what? The offensive infrastructure seemed fine. If they can fix a-

It wasn't disqualifying. is how I would put it. Exactly. It wasn't like, okay, they completely failed Will Levis. He had no shot. It looked like a functional NFL offense and they did a couple of cool things, especially in the run game. And the idea was, okay, if we can fix the offensive line a little bit,

give Bill Callahan one more year with some of these young players, obviously moving Latham over back to his side, get another year, Scarancey, you bring in Zaitler, all this stuff. That's supposed to help you. And none of that has really come to fruition. That's been the biggest frustration to me is that the offense clearly has not looked any more put together. And if anything, it looks like less put together than it did last

year, even though to me the quarterback is more capable of stuff than they were doing last year. So it's just a very, I thought they would look a lot more buttoned up and really at no stage this season today. Yeah, it's a lot to untangle here. And I want to try to take it piece by piece. I was cautiously optimistic about the Titans being like at least a solid NFL team in 2025. and it started with them potentially having, if you look at the talent on paper, the best offensive line in the entire division. Like when I was trying to make an optimistic case for the Titans, it started with, okay, if you give a young talented quarterback really good protection, if that's the foundation of how

this is going to go, can you build on that? And I think both of us collectively thought to Jared Wilson did a solid job last year, even if that unit was just torn to pieces with injuries by the end of the season. They traded away Ernest Jones. they had to kind of cobble things together. So the starting point of all of this was you have Bill Callahan and you have invested in the offensive line. There's a very real chance that Dan Moore, who is not a great left tackle but can be solid

in the right situations, is your fifth best offensive linemen. Well, that just never happened. Like, that never came to be for the 2025 Titans for a multitude of reasons. You start the season without J.C. Latham. And so last year, part of the reason that I think you can make an argument for this group was the right side of the offensive line for the Titans last year was unplayable, right? Like, their starting right tackle for most of last season isn't even on a roster. So if you were just going to have better talent overall, what was that going to look like?

Well, you start the season without Latham, you're playing with some backups, and those guys look awful. But the thing is, even the guys you paid looked bad. We've talked about this before. What is coaching in the NFL? It is getting the best versions who whatever players are walking through the door. Well, Dan Moore wasn't looking like the best version of himself. Kevin Zitler wasn't looking the best version of himself.

And then you get Latham back yesterday And he looks really, really rough And it's not necessarily a surprise to see that Somebody that struggled with weight in his rookie year He comes back after a lot of time off He looks pretty heavy right now, pretty slow-footed But this just speaks to what we were promised about the Titans And what we were given.

The offensive line was the number one example Of something that should have been something they could rely on this year And it absolutely was not And it's not just that players not playing up to their talent, right? It was a lot of like mental errors. Like there were earlier in the season when Latham was playing a little bit earlier. There was one of those sacks that Cam Ward took like in his own end zone where Latham is late to the snap. Like they had a lot of communication errors that way.

And then even in this last game, some of the plans that they had were a little bit off to me. Like there was, I want to say it was a sack that Cam Ward took where they're in a little bit of an empty formation and they have one of their backs out to the right side. And he's going to help chip on Max Crosby. But the way they game it up along the interior, they just have nobody to block the player in the B gap. And it's just like they had way too many miscommunications like that for a team that is supposed to be as buttoned up as they were or at least better than they were last year. And so for the offensive line to not, because that was the other thing too. It was like the idea was if the offensive line was good enough, then you would get a couple of fun plays from Cam Ward and you would have enough at receiver with Calvin Ridley that you could make it work. Well, if the offensive line's not protecting them, you definitely don't have enough at the skill players and you have a rookie quarterback who is prone to doing some silly stuff when he gets pressured like that.

Yeah. you need something that's like a consistent engine of your offense. We thought the line and the run game could provide that, even if there was some uncertainties with their past catching personnel, and they just never found that engine on offense. And the mental errors thing is a really important thing to point out because that was the other part of it where, okay, if we're trying to evaluate what happened last offseason, trying to think about how this could be better in 2025,

they did so much to shoot themselves in the foot last year. We talked about this all the time. The self-inflicted wounds, whether it was penalties, they had the most EPA in the NFL lost to aborted snaps, all of the crazy Will Levers turnovers. And if you were trying to rationalize some of that, it was, well, if they change out the quarterback and they don't have a quarterback who's consistently contributing to those problems,

it just can't possibly be that bad again. And then you look at this version of the team and the operational mistakes and all of those self-inflicted wounds carried over. So rather than just being the product of a first-year staff and a quarterback prone to those sort of issues, clearly it was endemic to this group. It's something that carried over from last year to this year. And so if the offensive line is not going to be what was promised

and all of those self-inflicted issues on offense were going to carry over, then I think it leads to the results and it leads to the product that we've seen over the first six games. And I completely understand them thinking it was time. Because this is a group now, with Chad Brinker was their president of football operations or whatever fancy sounding title he has. And Mike Borganzi is the new GM. Those guys did not hire Brian. Callahan. They were part of a new leadership group that was put into place this off season. And so it's

very easy for them to go to ownership and be like, hey, this is not a guy we picked. This is not what we believe in. We gave him a chance. This isn't working. It's time for us to go find our own guy. And this is what happens with dysfunctional organizations is that when there's this misalignment, it's very easy to kind of come to those sorts of conclusions. And now when they hire a new head coach, he's not going to be somebody who's aligned in picking the quarterback. And he's not going to be somebody who's line with the front office because those guys have already been in place. And so it's a similar mistake, the sort we see very often around the NFL and the Titans are now back on the merry go round that they've been over the last several off seasons.

Which is like, that's a frustrating place to be in general. But now that you've like, you had your shot, especially with the first overall pick at quarterback, right? Like, it's not like you were like taking some dart throws at 20 whatever or wherever they took Will Levis. Like at least those you can at least rationalize. It's like, all right, we're trying to do something. you had a first overall pick and you kind of flubbed it in a very similar way to what the bears did.

So it's hopefully they get a little bit of a turnaround here, but it's not surprising that they've ended up here now. And now they're in a tough spot because the offensive line coach was the most tenured offensive assistant on the entire team. So if you look at the offensive staff and it's a it's a unique build, I guess is what I would call it. Like there's a reason that they elevated Beau Hart agreed to call plays after Brian Callahan gave it up and not the offensive coordinator.

And it's because Bo had done this previously. when he was with the Raiders. Nick Colts, their offensive coordinator, had never been an offensive coordinator before. And so you can make an argument that Hardigree was actually better set up to call plays than their offensive coordinator was. So the fact that you wouldn't even give the offensive coordinator play calling duties, I sincerely doubt you're going to give him the interim head coaching job.

And so maybe it's Dernard Wilson, but now you lose, again, the most senior member of your offensive staff because he's the father of the head coach that you just fired. And so I think there's a lot of stuff that they're going to have to work through. I mean, the guy who probably, is like the best candidate on the staff right now to be the head coach is like Mike McCoy because he's the only person who's been a head coach before. And so hopefully you get a little bit of a bounce and you put your first overall pick quarterback in a slightly better position,

the same way that the Bears were able to last year when they elevated Thomas Brown. But there's not really a Thomas Brown sort of play caller in the Titans building right now to give him that sort of bump. And so there's a very real chance that it's going to be pretty ugly here over the next 10 or so weeks for Cam Ward's rookie year. The other thing we probably should hit is just, is there any type of archetype when it comes to head coaches that you think should be in the building now because you have Cam Ward?

In your mind, would you go for an offense first guy just to make sure that you're doing everything you can to build up the right infrastructure on that side of the ball to give him a shot with this next go-around? I mean, probably just because he's, you know, first overall pick a quarterback. I think that that would make a lot of sense similar to what I think the thinking was with Caleb Williams,

obviously last year. And so I don't think that that would be a bad way to go about it. I also do think that like if anyone can like weather is the wrong word, but like handle not having an offensive coach to build them up, I do kind of think it might be Cam Ward because he's a guy who like him becoming a very good college quarterback was always an uphill battle anyway, like him going from kind of being a wingty quarterback to leveling up consistently at all these different levels of play. So I almost don't know if he needs a guru, but I mean to bring one in, I think doesn't always hurt.

All right. Let's get to our two games from the Monday Hangover in week six. Let's start with the Rams and the Ravens. Your initial big picture takeaways from this game, first thing that comes to mind. The trenches played like kind of opposite of how I thought they would play. It's probably the best way for me to play. Interesting.

Okay. The Rams D line to me did not look very good. I thought Puna Ford probably played his worst game of the season. And then on the other side, I actually thought the Ravens' front and defensive line looked pretty solid in this game. Particularly, I thought Travis Jones played his best game of the season. So I think the D lines, like, quality-wise, kind of flip-flop to me. And that was like a lot of why this game started to feel a little muddy. Like, I think the Rams were not able to quite do as much

as they wanted in the run game. And that made the offense a little bit herky jerky, which to me, you add that on top of like, obviously Pooka Nakuole's game at some point. And I don't think Devonte Adams played his best game. Like, there were a couple of times where Stafford just missed him, especially in the red zone. But he just looked like he was a little bit slower to try to attack stuff over the middle in a way that he's usually not. And he had a couple of drops in this game. So I think you just combine like one of your best skill players not having his best day. The Ravens defensive line kind of randomly beating you up, especially along the interior.

I think that's why this game started to feel a little off. I also felt like Stafford didn't have his best game. I think there were a couple like just slightly off moments from Stafford. He misses Devante on that throw like right by the goalpost that's a little bit high. And it's just like it's just not anything that was a grubble. the fumble. And I just bizarre.

I felt like he was just a little bit unsettled in the pocket for like big chunks of this game where any time there was anybody around his feet. And you saw it on that Devante miss where it just feels like he's just, you see it. Like you see the way his feet are moving in that moment. He just looks uncomfortable there. And the sack was kind of the same way. And so I think that lends to some of the offensive inconsistencies in this game.

And just their continued issues down in the red zone, like they keep cropping up. for this team. Like on the play where they, the drive where they missed the field goal, that's the one where Devonte cooks Malachi Starks and then Stafford just kind of sails it on him in the back of the end zone. And then on the third and five, they run like, they have a stack with Devante and Pook on the left side and they run like a little corner route with Devonte and it's just not a very high percentage throw in that moment and Stafford sails it over his head.

They miss the field goal. And then on the next drive where they get the field goal ultimately, Puka catches a huge like 23 yarder on a deep in. Then it's a negative one yard run because Warren McClendon is their right tackle right now. The Stafford throws that crazy jump ball for Nekua on second and 11 that that decision makes relatively little sense. Considering how not open he is and considering just what kind of player he is. That's also not what he does. Yeah, exactly.

I just don't understand that decision in the moment. And then on third and 11, there's Devante on like kind of a tight window inbreaker. and that's another one of those moments where Stafford's like a tiny bit off on that third and 11 throw. And the Devante often can come down with that ball even if it's a tiny bit off, but he's not able to corral it. And now we're two red zone drives into the game and this team has three points. And it's just that is cropping up too often with them. And it's mostly when they're throwing the ball down in the red zone. Like when they're able to assert themselves on the ground in that area, their overall red zone numbers are fine.

But this year and even if you look over the last couple of years, they are 25th in EPA, per dropback in the red zone over the last two seasons. And that matches the eye test. Like they struggle to throw the ball in that area. And I think they believe Devante Adams, who's one of the greatest red zone receivers of all time, was going to be their solve there. And that has not been the case.

Like, Devante has not been enough to cure whatever it ills them when they're trying to throw the ball in the red zone. Yeah, they still have a ton of issues there. It does help that they are pretty good at running the ball in the red zone, or at least for the most part. I'm still willing, I know it's been six weeks of frustration like this, I'm still willing to give the Devante Adams and the Red Zone thing time because they've generally figured out their chemistry and a lot of other areas of the field

and the Red Zone can just be really weird. So I'm willing to give it some more time, but it's been frustrating that it has not been what they wanted it to. And then like they just don't, I think sometimes the one area of the field where like having smaller, quicker players is nice is the Red Zone where like the windows are just so much smaller and you can get away with using these guys in all these ways. Like obviously when the chiefs are at their best, that's where those guys really start to come to life. The Rams don't really have those players. They're all, it's Pukunakua's, it's Jordan Whittington. It's a lot of like,

even though Tutu Atwell is quicker and smaller, he's not really like that. He's more of a long speed guy. Yes, exactly. He's our let's throw him and on like a rail route or a deep post route. Like he's not really you're like, he's more fast than quick. Actually, you know, we usually be said quicker than fast, but he's more fast than quick. And so him in the red zone doesn't really give you a whole lot. And then they're, tight end room is just like fine. And none of those guys are really ball winners. Like Terrence Ferguson, I think they're starting to work him into a line. They actually gave him a jet handoff in this game, which I thought was whatever. But he's not a ball winner in the red zone. So like they have to do

weird stuff with him like this in the red zone if they want to get him touches there. That was another example where they have the ball inside the 10 yard line in the fourth quarter. They get a holding penalty from Whittington that pushes it to first and 20. They get back to a third and three inside the five and they give a jet sweep to Terrence Ferguson on third and three and then Stafford takes a sack on fourth and three. So now we're three red zone drives. I mean, that's later in the game. It's already in hand. But that's three red zone drives where they came away with three points in this game. If you're trying to figure out how did the Rams score 17 points against the Ravens, this is how we ultimately get there. And they just fell out of sorts on offense

for like a huge chunk of the game. Even like one of their bigger plays of the day, that fourth and two heave to Kyron Williams down the left sideline that ultimately sets them up for for a touchdown to go up 10 to 3. That's not the sort of play I want to be relying on when Matthew Stafford is my quarterback. And so even the good moments were these low percentage plays that are just hard to rely on.

And I do think they missed Puka, you know, in certain stretches of this game. Like I'm trying to figure out Kanata Mumpfield is the guy who had to come in and play for Puka because they didn't have Tutsu Atwell in this game. And so if they wanted to keep playing

11 personnel, Kanata Mumpfield is the who ends up coming into play for Tutu. He actually catch, or for Puka Naku in those 11 personnel looks. He actually caught a screen on third and three and got a first down. It's exactly what a play they would have given to Puka. The play that you could kind of feel Puka not being there, they had a third and three late in the second quarter, and they did that insert play with Jordan Whittington

that they've done with Puka a million different times. And that's another perfect example where it's a little bit wide, the throw. Like it's a little bit high and outside. And so Stafford's a tiny bit off. Puka probably comes down with that ball, but it's another third down in completion, and we're punting. And so there were just so many of those like bang, bang,

were three inches away from a completion, a high leverage moment that didn't go their way in this game. And that's why they're such a frustrating team, because when those like very small bang, bang plays go their way, they put up 40. And it looks like the coolest offense that we've ever seen. It's just they have, especially I would say, over the last couple of years compared to like 2021 or whatever,

they just have more of the game sometimes. where it's a little bit more like this and a little bit more frustrating and up and down than it should be. One thing I wanted to point out on the other side of the ball for what the Ravens were doing well or I thought interesting,

they put Kyle Hamilton on the line of scrimmage a lot in this game, like on the edge. He did not play a single snap of safety in this entire game. Yeah, he was in the box and like just mauling people. And he did some of those runs.

Like even when they're just like running the splitter his way and like trying to clear him out, he gets there so fast that he still squeezes the play and you don't really have a cupback lane. And so if one other guy up front wins, which like I mentioned earlier, the Ravens guys did do a pretty good job up front winning those matchups. There just wasn't a whole lot of space in the run game.

I also, another shout out, Trenton Simpson. I thought in this game, he can still be a little bit like where are we running to, but like on a handful of those plays where he could just get his hands on a block and really mall somebody. He did that. I mean, the Terrence Ferguson play that we mentioned earlier, he blows up Tyler Higbee and does not give Ferguson the edge on that play. And so I just thought the physicality from the Ravens front was, it's something we didn't really see for the first five weeks of the season.

And so for them to show it in this game, I thought was really important, honestly. And I think it's important to recognize the difference between just the Ravens personnel defensively in this game and would it look like last week against the Texans. Because if you're wondering, we talked about this a little bit last night in jest. Or it was like, well, the Texans look like the greatest show on turf against the Ravens last week and the Rams scored 17 points. How are we squaring those things? The Ravens weren't totally healthy.

Roquan Smith is still missing this game. But they're mostly back healthy. with all of those guys in the defensive secondary. Marlon Humphrey played in this game. Kyle Hamilton played in this game. They obviously just traded for a Lohie Gilman. So he started at corner. And so now we're back at a place where I think they're trying to figure out who they want to be for the rest of the year.

And the fact that Kyle Hamilton did not play a single snap at safety in this entire game. It was all either dime linebacker in the box or at slot corner. And that's with Jair Alexander Healthy. I think that is a statement by the Ravens of this is how we're going. to play him for the rest of the season. This is why we made the trade that we did for Alohe Gilman because we think this puts our guys overall

in a better position. And so I do think we could see a better version of the Ravens defense moving forward if Sunday is any indication based on some of the tweaks that we saw. I do too. Like I have some amount of faith that they can fit because it's still a relatively talented unit when enough of these guys are healthy. I just

I do find it funny that every time the Ravens have a slump, it's like, all right, move Kyle Hamilton back the other way. We either got to move him closer or moving back, which is like the beauty of a player like that, but it kind of works every time. It really does. And I think they've done a good job, or at least a decent job of understanding how they need to move him to get where they need to go. It's unfortunate and frustrating that they need to go through this process every single year,

but seemingly they do. I will say, even if I think they're starting to get there with some of the personnel, I still feel like some of the situational play calling with this team is like a little bit frustrating. Like on the play we talked about where Stafford hits Kowron Williams on that fourth and two down the left sideline. It's a two-man rush by the Ravens. They're playing man and they rush two guys on that play,

which I get what you're trying to do there. Like if you're trying to just get droppers into what you think are going to be some of those underneath voids because it's fourth and two, they're getting the ball out quick out of empty. That's fine. I still think I'd rush more than two guys in that situation. And then that 23-yard completion I talked about to Puka, where he's coming back on this deep dig,

it's third and nine and the Ravens try to run this like weird disguised cover too. and the linebackers are just nowhere to be found. And so I think in some of these calls and some of these like defined past calls where they're trying to do something a little bit funky, they're often getting caught in ways that they're trying to catch the offense. Like that's coming up a couple times a game seemingly at this point. Well, because that's the thing is like this is a coaching tree

that I think likes a lot of the weird cover two rotations. And they had one even on the first drive where they just like fly the nickel out to be the Tampa dropper. It's just their middle of the field defenders outside of Kyle Hamilton, especially with Robon Smith. are just either not good right now or they're just so young that it's hard to have a good feel for space for a lot of this stuff because they're very difficult calls. It's the same thing that we were talking about with like, why did the Bengals move on from Lou Anaruma? Well, it's like,

well, because he was trying to do a lot of this shit and they had a bunch of young players who didn't seem up for the task at the point. Anything else on the other side of the ball that you wanted to note. I think a couple things that jumped out to me. I really like how they're using Jared versus against the run. Like they're spiking him inside a decent amount and some of these like defined run situations in order to like just essentially fuck shit up like that's mostly what's happening and like he's very good at that and so I felt like that's something they leaned on a little bit in the Niners game later in the game they came back to this week I think that's been helpful for their run defense and overall I thought their strategy against the run in this game

was pretty notable coming into this game the Rams were playing out playing with a light box on 63% of their run plays which was the third highest rate in the league it was 27% against the Ravens week, which I think is a statement about what you need to worry about when Lamar Jackson is not playing and why, even though the Ravens running game was getting going pretty well in this game, all things considered. Like, they were running the ball pretty consistently. It was penalties, you know, any negative play, essentially torpedoed whatever drive they were going to have. But when you're having to deal with that many bodies in the box consistently because nobody's worried about you throwing the ball on them, everything just gets a little bit harder. It does. And honestly, them being a little bit more like, all right, let's slow.

the box a little bit that also in a lot of cases lets you challenge receivers closer to the formation because in a lot of your single high stuff I think you're a lot more comfortable doing that I thought they did a really good job of that in this game just like really challenging guys and making them work for it in a lot of the contested situations or just off the line of scrimmage like to me

the interception that I think Quentin Lake grabs where they try to motion the number one receiver in to like I think get those two players to switch off who to get Quentin Lake off of Zay Flowers and kind of flip flop that they just keep them on there and they just play man to man and Quinn Lake like blocks out Zay Flowers' body in front in terms of like jumping in front of that ball.

Like just a really good play in terms of them being really physical. So I think at their best, they can be a really physical front. And for a game where I think that's the exact type of like passing game they're built to beat where they can just kind of beat up on people. Because they are like especially outside of they're like a pretty good let's just beat them up type of secondary. I'm curious. Anything about like just structurally with the Ravens offense where there are. frustrations beyond the fact that they don't have the quarterback. Do you think that they could be doing more with Cooper Rush at this point?

Or do you just feel like this is kind of a non-starter because Lamar isn't playing? I think it's a little bit of like a non-starter. Honestly, I also think it's just kind of a weird, like when you have so clearly built the offense for a quarterback like Lamar Jackson. And it's a more sophisticated passing offense, obviously now than it was three years ago. But it's still, they run a lot more pistol. They have a lot of their run game stuff. It's still tied to the quarterback, which once you remove Lamar Jackson from that, I think

it complicates a lot of things. So I think to me, like the pure dropback game has never really been what this team is successful at. And that's, I think, why you saw them trying to boot and stuff as much as they could. But that really has a limit, especially once you get in all the penalties that they were having. And then two, even on the drives that they were moving the ball, just horribly timed turnovers. Like obviously the interception, multiple Zayflowers fumbles.

Like, I actually don't think they were like, even though Cooper Rush's numbers don't look that good. He also had like, I think two of his best and longest throws of the day got wiped off by some of those penalties. So like I think as far as like a backup quarterback performance offense goes, it wasn't that bad. It was just that the turnovers were really killing them. And one play that one sequence where it's not an actual turnover, but it's just as good of a turnover where the game entirely changes. The Ravens have the ball on the one yard line at the end of the second quarter with this game tied at three. they try two Mark Andrews

Tush pushes from the one. Both of them get stuffed. And then on third down, they try to hand the ball off. Jared Verse absolutely caves in the left side of the offensive line. He gets the TFL to blank the Ravens in a goal line stand.

It goes to half three three. The Rams come out, score on the first drive of the half, immediately into the next drive. We have an offensive pass interference on Mark Andrews and then Zay Flowers fumbles. and the Rams score a touchdown two plays later. So we go from it probably being 10-3 Ravens at the half

in them failing on the goal line to the Rams scoring two touchdowns in like 10 minutes of real time to make it 17, 3 Rams and the game is over. Like that's how quickly it all turned. Yeah, like when I watched this game back, I thought it would like at some point that I thought it would be more of like a slow build for the Rams getting to 17 to 3 or whatever it was. But it was really like in the blink of an eye,

they kind of just lost the game. And the Rams again, they did not play very well. They get a two-score win. but like they with some of that stuff they kind of got lucky it feels like all right we're going to take our first break and then come back and talk a little bangles packers let's get to our next one here the green bay packers beat the Cincinnati Bengals 27 to 18 and another semi disappointing kind of ugly sloppy game for a team that fancies itself a contender against a team playing a backup quarterback your big picture initial thoughts on packers bangles after going back and rewatching it so unlike the rams game

I was pretty disappointed with what I saw from the Rams like when I watched this game. I watched back to Packers and I was like, this game was like fine. Like it looks closer obviously in the box scoring because Cincinnati ends up scoring a very late touchdown. But I honestly thought otherwise the Packers played pretty well in this game. Like the first drive, they're moving the ball fairly well. And then Jordan Love makes probably his most brain dead decision of the year and throws an interception on a crossing round. The next drive, they kick a field goal. They punt after that.

But then they go touchdown, punt before the half. and then two touchdowns right out of the half and then a field goal out of the half. Like they still scored on most of their drives and even on the drive that they had the turnover, Jordan Love just kind of did a silly. And so I think for the most part, I actually thought they looked fine on that side of the ball.

And then defensively, I actually thought for the most part, they acquitted themselves quite well. And really the only mode of offense to me that the Bengals moved the ball was like, Jamar Chase reminding you that he's the best receiver in the NFL. He did that a number of times. Like I just,

I did not come away from this game as worried about the bang, or as about the Packers. as I thought I was going to. I feel that way about the Packers' defense in this game, because I think that's exactly right. I mean, if you look at it, especially like that last touchdown drive for the Bengals, it's a jump ball to Jamar Chase.

It's a third and six hitch route to T. Higgins. That's all I wanted from Joe Flacco, by the way. All I wanted was for him to put the ball in the area of these guys and give them a chance. And for the most part, especially in the second half, that was happening. The only issue is that this offense, it's so funny to watch Joe Flacco run this offense that was designed for Joe Burrow.

because there are so many moments where Joe Burrow, the ball's just out immediately. Like it just immediately. He gets rid of it instantaneously whenever he needs to. And Joe Flacco is just an old man who's very big and is long-limbed and just has this kind of longer delivery. So there are multiple plays in this game where he has guys open. And he's known the offense for three days and we're talking about some of the physical limitations.

And so the ball is getting there a lot slower than it probably should. And so it's almost like this game was like watching the Bengals offense in slow motion. like that's what it was like watching the quarterback. So I think on that side of the ball, I tend to agree and we can dig into some of the specifics. On the offensive side for Green Bay, I still am just frustrated with this team. Like I just think there are so many moments where it just feels self-inflicted

and we have like just general sloppiness. Like you mentioned the interception. I think that is inexcusable, right? Like he just comes to that play late Jordan Love does while rolling out. Ball gets tipped. It's a terrible decision. Then there are multiple third downs in this game where I'm just like, what's happening here?

Why do we look so unsettled on these third and short plays? Like on the drive where they kick the field goal, they have a second and seven on that drive, and they have an advantageous box. And then Jordan Love decides to throw like a smoke to Romeo Dobbs. He gets dropped for a one-yard loss. They don't get the third and eight, and they kick the field goal.

On a third and two in the second quarter, they're in empty. Manuel Wilson goes in motion. Trey Hendrickson drops on the play. He's standing next to Romeo Dobbs. Jordan Love if he waits half a beat can just throw the ball to Romeo Dobbs for a first down. He doesn't do that.

He gets a little bit panicky in the pocket. He dumps it down to Wilson in the flat. It's a four-yard loss on third and two, and this team is punting. And it's just, there are too many moments like that. And even on plays and in situations where it ends up turning their way, these are again's like kind of desperation plays.

Like the third and 10 in the second quarter where he completes a 35-yard ball to Matthew Golden, And that's a great play. I don't want to be living that way. And then the game's saving completion that he makes to Matthew Gold is another like chuck down the field. And so they're just, it's the finer details of this offense. Like to me, and I've said this a bunch in various forms, but when I watch the Packers, it's a little too sledgehammer and a little not enough scalpel sometimes.

And that's where my frustrations with them crop up. And I think this game was another good example of that. I don't even necessarily disagree with that. like they are definitely that way where they are hunting for explosives and like you're hunting for enough of your best plays. But like the Rams are very much the same way. And like I think for I think with them because we've seen them win a Super Bowl, we give them a lot more benefit of the doubt for it. Whereas with the Packers, we haven't seen it. But I think to me it's like I think it's having to say that you would just live with it is really annoying. But like I still do think that ultimately the quarterback is

going to make enough good plays. And like in this game they ran the ball decently enough that they can generally get to where they need to be. And I think you still feel the fact that they don't have a star pass catcher, even if the past catching core is a little bit better with a guy like Matthew Golden in there. And he can just win that one-on-one go ball on third and 10, which last year, what did we all talk about? Like, they were a good offense, except when you needed it against man coverage or one-on-one situations on third down. And so I still, even if they do have moments where I would like them to be able to more consistently just like finish a nine-play drive that they are not finishing, I still come away ultimately. Like, they're going to get enough of their big plays in almost

every game that they're going to be fine. That's actually a really. really good comparison. I think that because if we're talking about how you find consistent offense with this sort of formula, it is on the ground. Like that is the type of team that this wants to be. And so and I think that there are the other ways where, because I think about the Rams and it's like

you can scheme stuff up or puka if you need two yards, right? Like we're throwing perimeter screens to puk on third and two. You weren't in this game because you were throwing them to Mumpfield, but in most of the situations that's what you're trying to do if you're the Rams. And it still worked. In this game, I think that not having Jaden Reed is part of this

right, because a lot of those scheme touches are going to go to Jaden Reed. But the best version of this offense in this game, in my opinion, was the drive where they had all those scheme touches for Matthew Golden, right? Where they're getting him on a jet sweep, they're getting him the ball in space. And I think here's the example to me of like when I watch this team and I really like the version of that that I'm seeing. It's when they're just taking what's available to them. The drive they had in the third quarter, their last drive in the third quarter, where Jordan Love is just consistently completing these underneath passes.

I guess that's the version of this Packers team I want to see a little bit more often where it's like, just don't get bored. Like they're going to be giving you this stuff. Just don't get bored. And I still think they're learning how to be that version of this offense because Jordan Love, God love them, wants to bite it all off at once every single time. And I think sometimes that still runs them into some issues. It definitely does. But that's also why like some quarterbacks like him, you kind of do need the running game to be the, this is how we get our five, six yards.

Like Russell Wilson, even at his best, like absolutely needed the running game because he was a quarterback who would get a little bit bored in the one to 10 yard area and wasn't that good. And like, I think Love talent wise can make those throws just fine. It's just he does have those moments where unless especially they're attached to an RPO, he just kind of doesn't want to make those throws as consistently. Like he really wants to throw his dig routes, his corner routes, his go balls, all that sort of stuff. So I think he can be frustrating in that sense. But again, I still feel like even in this game, like he didn't make that many.

mistakes. It's just like the one or two that he makes are so, you just want to like grab his helmet and shake him when he does it, like the interception and then obviously like the throwing four yards behind the line of scrimmage on that third and two. Like, but generally like he only takes one sack in this game. Obviously, he didn't miss many throws in this game. Like usually when we get frustrated with Jordan Love, it's like he's missing throws. But outside of one where it felt like he overthrew a digger out, like I thought for the most part, he was pretty on point. And even on that dig route, T. T.J. Slayton is in his face as he's trying to throw that ball and that's why it gets a little bit high. So I agree. The accuracy was fine. It was just some of the decision making overall and

the throws that he's trying to access. There was one early in the game where I'm just sitting there. I'm just like, this is why you frustrate me so much sometimes. There was a, it was the first drive of the game. And he's trying to throw like a curl to Romeo Dobbs. And DJ Turner is just sitting on it. And it's just like, that man is not open. Like, why are you trying to do this? He trusts his guy. There was a drive later in the game where twice, He goes after DJ Turner in one-on-one situations, and the coverage is just excellent. And so it's just, I'm still getting there with this team. Like, stylistically, I love who they want to be.

I just get a little bit worried that it can be too feast or famine for an offense that has these sorts of aspirations. And so I think this game was a pretty telling example of that. The success rate and all that stuff, it looks fine in the end, in part because they establish themselves on the ground, which we can talk about. But just every so often, I'm like, I really don't want to be looking. of it on these third and eights where we're having to like hit goal balls to Matthew Golden if we're trying to win Super Bowls here.

I totally get that. Like it's, they can be a very frustrating offense. But I'm just, hopefully by Toyota thought, well, this will start to look a little bit cleaner for them. The running game in the back half of the game, I think they really start to find themselves a little bit. I'm curious how you think about this because when I watch this game from the Bengals, I actually thought the Bengals front played very well in this game.

Like if you looked at the front four for the Bengals, I think you can pick out every single one of those guys and be like, oh, he had a couple moments. Like Miles Murphy on the edge multiple times in this game was pushing tight ends around. I was actually impressed with him. I thought Chris Jenkins had a lot of really good moments against the run in this game. And then you look at the second and third level of the Bengals defense. And that's where it all starts to fall apart a little bit.

Like the linebackers on this Bengals team look and feel very, very young, inexperienced and a little bit lost, despite the fact that I do think the front is playing pretty well against the run. They really are. Slayton, I think, had some moments in this game. Like, Jenkins looks good. Like, I thought Joseph Asai multiple times did a really good job of setting the edge when he needed to.

But yeah, the second and third level run defenders, which I honestly think, I don't know if this is like a newer thing or this is just I'm really feeling it this year. I feel like all the, not all, a lot of the worst run defenses are not even really to me because the fronts are playing that bad. It's the second and third level run defenders. are criminal. Like them, the bears are like this.

Like, it's just like, they have these really, yeah. We'll see. I'm sure it's going to go great tonight. I'm sure it's going to, against,

against the commanders who are like, one of the best rushing offense in the league. I'm sure it'll be fine. But like that to me is the issue is like second and third level run defenders, not fitting. And like sometimes with the corners, that's the issue with this team a little bit. Like they are,

I mean, that was when we talked about the Lions game a little bit. So it was the defensive backs in this game. I think you really felt it with the backers. Like they are just, the run fits, you know, it's like a puzzle. And so if you only figure out the first level,

unless you get in the backfield and get hands on him immediately, it kind of is not going to matter. Is it weird that I, like, have a little bit of optimism about, like, the multi-year outlook for the Bengals defense, considering how things look right now? Because the linebackers are rookies, right? I mean, other than Logan Wilson, Demetrius Knight and Barrac Carter are both rookie players.

We know that's a position that takes a long, long time. They may never get there. But the fact that they look lost now shouldn't necessarily be surprised. But then I look at some of the other guys on defense, and it's like, all right, I see what Chris Jenkins has made real gains this year. He looks like a very different player, especially against the run. You have some moments from some of the other front guys. The pass rush is still not very good. Like, they don't have enough juice there outside of Hendrickson.

But I think DJ Turner has had some really, really good flashes this year. And I think that, you know, that's somebody who's really growing into a role. And so the fact that we have seen this from some of the young pieces and the main issues are at a position where it takes a little while to mature. I don't watch this Bangle's defense and think, oh, this is just a total shit show. Like, this is a lost cause in the long term because of the guys that they've tried to build this thing

with. It's bad right now, but I don't think it's embarrassing as it currently stands. I still think it's kind of embarrassing, but I do think there's at least the young players that do have more flashes than I thought that we would get. I think the front four specifically is better than I thought that we were

going to get from them. It's just the second level has been such a disaster. And the secondary still won't tackle, even if they have good moments in coverage, that it's still like, you can't, you just can't get to it. Like, there's still a bottom five unit in EPA and success rate. Oh, yeah. There's still a pretty bad. They're a 30th in defense TVOA. They're bad. They're just, when I watch them, I guess there are more flashes that I'm enjoying that I anticipated when I was watching the Bengals defense. I think that's probably where I would land with it. That's where I would like, and there is at least like, I didn't know if we would go and

if we would get at any point in the season where I was like there was one position group I feel good about. At least with them, I look at the defensive tackles and I'm like, you know what? They can work with that. That's pretty good. Everything else work in progress. On the other side of the ball for Cincinnati, we don't have to spend a ton of time on this. I think, again, just what they're doing

in the passing game with Flacco and the fact that he's willing to let it rip to those guys is probably good enough for me right now. When I watch the Bengals offensive line in the run game right now, I don't know if based on like the physical profile of the players, there is a

less, there's a unit with less physicality up front than the Cincinnati Bengals offensive line. Like, you watch what they look like against the run. It's such a stark, crazy contrast, like watching what the Panthers were yesterday with three backup offensive linemen and then watching what the Bengals are. Like, the first run of the game, Dalton Reisner is just kind of like leaning on the defensive tackle as he's comboing up to the linebacker. And it's just like, what is this? Like what do we think this is supposed to be?

It's just, it's pretty gross. Like I'm, when I watch that group and even when, obviously it's not just a Joe Burrow problem, like what we're seeing with the Bengals offense, there are a lot more issues that go into it. But the fact that the offensive line, I know they were missing Dylan Fairchild yesterday, whatever is, and the run game plan is just so lifeless. That's why when you lose the quarterback here, nothing seems to work. It's because there's nothing else you can really rely on. because the line and the plan for the offensive line just isn't very good.

Yeah. And like I think it's kind of multifaceted, right? Like one, obviously not having fair child in this game. Two, I think Orlando Brown just like has not just not a good player right now. Absolutely not. Yeah, just not a good player, even though he looks like he should be more physical and moving people. I also really, and this has been a frustration that I've had with the Bengals offense for a while and why I wanted them to be more under center on top of all the play action stuff. I really think there is something to the run game and getting better at it and getting comfortable about it when you just do it more.

like this is obviously a Bengals offense that just has no interest in building the offense around the run game they use it as a like it's a chore for them this is a we have to do it for the sake of like so that we're not passing 90% of plays and I just think it's hard for guys to feel confident and feel like they are just really want to move people when it's pretty obvious that the run game is not a part of your plan here I absolutely love that I think you can feel that when you watch them and the two teams that I would say as we've watched great offenses in the NFL over the last like five or six years. The teams that used to feel like that and then fixed it. And now they don't have to rely on superhuman quarterback play in order to be decent are the Rams and the Bills. The Rams and the Bills were like this where for years they clearly didn't give a shit about the run game. I think they would tell you they didn't care about it enough.

And in moments where they needed to be a little bit flexible, they needed to be able to tap into that version of themselves, they couldn't do it. And so the Bengals, it's even more pronounced because you lose Joe Burrow and now you have nothing. But I still think that as we get a little bit deeper into seasons and you have like championship level aspirations, being able to run the ball on your own terms is a really important part of the formula. Like even if you have Joe Burrow, T. Higgins, Jemar Chase, and you can't invest in the offensive line and you don't want to be like a run first team, I still think you need to be able to access it in certain moments and you need to stress it in order to get to that place and they clearly just don't really do that. Yeah, it has to be something that the defense

actually cares about a little bit. And it's just really not right now. And like, again, defenses don't care about defending it in the offensive line. I don't know if it's like they don't care to run block. But again, it's just when you're, this is not clearly part of your offensive identity. I think it's hard to get guys to buy in. Whereas like to me, the Panthers are kind of the opposite, right? Like they've built the, obviously they talent wise have a pretty good offensive line. But they also built the whole offense now to be like, we need to be able to run the ball and move people where this thing's not going to work. And I think you've seen pretty good buy-in from obviously the starters, but even some of the backups that they've had to play over the last

couple of weeks. All right. We're going to take one more quick break here and then get back with a couple of your calls for this edition of Monday morning. All right, each week we solicit your voicemails on Sunday night. I know a bunch of you are having a tough time after the way the week six went. It's been a rough year for some fan bases that had pretty real aspirations. It was a weird week in the NFL. And so it sounds like, based on your guys' calls, that there was plenty of sadness to comb through. Bell would hit us with the first one. I'm an Eagles. I got to watch my team win a Super Bowl against a dynasty in pretty dominant fashion last year. So when they lost to the Broncos, I thought about calling in, but I held back. And then they got blown out

by a team that they were favored to beat by more than a touchdown. And I would just love if someone could tell me why this very good team with all of its very good players is not only not playing well, but it's just so annoying in the way that they're not playing well. I mean... I think that's perfect because that's my exact frustration with the Eagles. It's a very particular kind of like what is wrong with you. Why isn't this working? it's so good

it's so good I you know why this is it it feels so true to life when watching the egos over the last couple years it's because the switch that they're able to flip like it seems

so random half the time right where it's like last year in the middle of the season they get half you know six games into the year it all feels like a mess they lose to the bucks the sky feels like it's falling it's like where are we going with this like is this just a continue of the awful vibes from

23. Then they get Cooper DeGine back. The defense turns into this like world beating unit. They get like seven Sequin 60-yard runs. And they look like the most dominant team in football and they walk to a Super Bowl win. They come back this year with a few pieces missing. Right. Like you're going to have some attrition. But is Mackay Beckton and CJ Gardner Johnson and Milton Williams the difference between the Eagles team we saw at the end of last season and the Eagles team that we're watching right now? I know the offensive coordinator. is different and all that. But I get being frustrated as an Eagles fan

where you're just like, how is this possible? How can we exist at the either end of these extremes so often seemingly at random in like two weeks stints? It's incredibly frustrating. And it's also just like it always feels like when they fix something on offense, either the next season or by the end of that season, it's something else.

Like last year it was like, man, the Eagles just do not have an answer for the blitz. And they finally start to figure it out. And then this year it's like teams have realized It's like, all right, well, if we just dump it to you, you're not going to have the right throw. And it's like, how is it only something new? And like the offensive struggle to find whatever it wants to be in the run game. Like it's just, it's always feels like one step forward, one step back.

And when they're on that step forward, they're the best team in football. And then the step back is the most frustrating thing to watch. It's so funny. It's so true. I think back to like the first bit of the Eagles, Nick Siriani era. You remember that like post mini buy switch that they flipped? in year one where they were just like, we're just going to run the ball all the time. Like now that's just what we are.

We just run the ball all the time. And so that worked for a little bit. And then they get to a place where, okay, we can start throwing the ball again. We have AJ Brown. Like, you know, we can tap into this version. And then they struggle with the blitz. And then they fix that. And now the teams are playing all these cloud coverages against them and essentially making

him read stuff out. Or it's like, okay, well, if they're going to do that, then we should have more too high looks and we'll be able to run the ball a little bit more consistently. Well, now we can't really run the ball no matter what team. are doing against us. And so it's this offensive whack-a-mole, despite the fact that you have all of these superstar-level players. And I can understand where that would be absolutely maddening as a fan.

And so I think my takeaway from this is I completely understand every single bit of the tone of that call. And I think the whack-a-mole is so frustrating because, yeah, they're so talented. You know that the answer is there. Like with some other offenses, you watch them and you're just like, I don't know how I'm supposed to see it. Who's going to help us here? And it's like, you have like four all pros.

Like, what do you mean? there's no way it's a loss cause. With so many other teams in the NFL, you can just be like, you know what? Just throwing my hands up. Like there's no way we're going to figure this out. You know that's not the answer with the Eagles. And that's why it's just,

it could drive you absolutely insane. I don't really have anything to say to make him feel any better because I think if I were in his shoes and if I were an Eagles fan right now, I would be going through the exact same thing. Yeah, I've got nothing, especially for the offense.

At least on defense, like when they've had Jaylen Carter it's looked fine and they haven't done that against like Jackson Dart but I will see all right let's get to our next one here um I'm a 49er fan I can't believe I'm calling to complain about injuries I know I should be grateful for the stress my team's had I know we're four and two but it's just draining the joy from football honestly when Christian McCaffrey runs for two yards I don't even care as long as he gets up it just seems like one of those seasons it's going to keep happening. And sure, maybe Kyle Shanahan can scheme up a 400-yard game for Adrian Martinez

throw into Jake Conjus and they sneak into the playoffs. What's the point? I'm to the point where I'm like just feel like maybe just put all the veterans in bubble wrap and let the young guys play and hope that next season they get one of those fairytale seasons where they don't all get hurt and nobody pops and Achilles running onto the field in the Super Bowl. I feel lame because so many teams have had it so much worse, but it just sucks that Kyle Shanahan is probably never going to win a Super Bowl

because these guys keep getting hurt. That's my morning this Monday morning. Do not feel lame at all because that final point, that's the one where if you're a 49ers fan, I can completely understand not being able to eject that thought from your mind. Like you've had this run of success. since 2019, where you've had some of these great offenses, you've had dominant defenses, just like think back to what that front looked like with that 2019 version of the Niners

and how ridiculously dominant that group was. And I think, honestly, to me, the thing that pushes it all over the top and the straw that broke the camel's back or whatever analogy metaphor you want to use, the Fred Warner thing makes it just disgustingly sad. Because no matter what, even as everybody else was getting hurt, even as, the personnel was changed out on defense, even if you've had to cycle through different variations of who you've been on offense and consistently found success there. The one thing that you've been able to rely on as a 49ers fan in the entire Kyle Shanahan era is that you got to watch the best linebacker of his generation consistently week in and week out no matter what he was dealing with. He had a broken foot last year.

It didn't seem to matter. And so the fact that now on top of everything else and all of the small, all things you've had to deal with this season and all of the larger existential things you've had to deal with over the last five seasons, you don't get to watch Fred Warner play anymore. I get it. I get you. It is not lame to feel the way that you feel right now. No, like four and two like it doesn't matter. Who cares? If you, yeah, if you know that the team by the time they get to the end of the road, even if they get to 10 and, you know, seven or whatever and get in like who again, who like, who cares if you don't have literally your two best players in Nick Bosa and Fred Warner at this point. And like Fred Warner is. at this stage, like maybe the most load-bearing defensive player in the NFL when you just think about what he's able to do kind of uniquely from that position, especially in coverage. I mean, we talked about it on the Sunday night show. How many of Tampa's biggest plays in that game were coverage bus? And I know that like Fred Warner is not playing cornerback, but he's communicating for the

defense. He's helping getting guys lined up. He's helping them be where they need to be. And pretty much once he went out of the game, they lost a lot of what they were supposed to be doing on that side of the ball. So to not have him who was like very obviously the best player at that position. And now you're kind of fresh out of all of your all pro players, especially if like, you know, for as long as kiddle spit out now.

Like it's just it's a very, very troubling spot to be for a roster that we got proof of concept that they can win games. Like we came into the season. We were like, I don't know. Like is the depth going to be good enough? All this stuff. We have proof of concept there. But if they don't have any of their stars, what does it really matter for this year, unfortunately?

The entire argument for the defense was even if they have a lot of young, inexperienced players everywhere else. You have Nick Bosa and Fred Warner. At least you can rely on that. And Nick Bosa gets hurt, but Fred Warner is still playing at an insane level. We were going to have this conversation last week on the previous show.

We might as well do it now because he's out for the rest of the season. I think you could make a serious argument that Fred Warner, the gap between him and the next best player at his position was bigger than any single player in the NFL. Like I think right now, the next best off-ball linebacker in the league

considering some of the decline we've seen from Wilkwan Smith and the fact that he's been hurt this year is probably Zach Bond and I think you can make a really solid argument that there is no bigger gap from one two at a position than there is between Fred Warner and Zach Bonn and I like Zach Bonn and so the fact that

now he's been removed from the equation it's just a really shitty place to be if you're a Niners fan it's brutal like he really is a unique like we probably say unique too much but he is truly one of one he is one he is one of one he's like like he's on the podium for the best linebacker ever.

Like I have a very special place in my heart for Luke Keeckley, but Fred Warner is, is a different type of player. And it's what he's done over the past 10 years for that team. And again, you mentioned it, he's been an Iron Man to this point. Like he doesn't miss games. And so of the fact that now that they're going to have to, for the first time since 2017, feel like what it's like to live without Fred Warner is, a brutal spot to be. And like, you mentioned he's obviously the best linebacker, nobody's close. Like the only other positions where maybe I think that are like, maybe corner with Pat Sertan, but even then, the difference between Sartan and probably Stingley to me is closer than whatever it is between Fred Warner and a guy like Zach Bonn, even if Zach Bonn is an awesome player.

Why I think this stretch of Niners football and I'm not winning a Super Bowl is particularly frustrating is because of a lot of teams that fall short, you can point to one thing, right? It's like we never figured out X. You know, like the Lovie Smith Bears won a ton of football games over the nine years that Lovie Smith was there. they went to the Super Bowl. It's pretty easy to understand why they never pushed it over the top. They never figured out the quarterback. They never figured out the offensive coordinator. When you don't do those things, it's really hard to win games in the NFL.

The Niners have had the best offense in the league. The Niners have had the best defense in the league. They've had all pros at virtually every single position. They've had some of the best receivers in the league. They've had the best left tackle in the league. They've had the best running back in the league. They've had the best pass rusher in the league. The best linebacker.

They've had a really good corner play in stretches. Traverius Ward played for this team. And it didn't matter that the fact that you can't land on one thing. And that all of these different iterations of them have been so good and so dangerous in different moments. And it's still, there was always one thing missing, but that thing was always a little bit different every single time. There'd be enough to drive you crazy. Yeah, like that's exactly. You always feel like you've been able to solve.

But there's always one more problem than you have been able to solve. And this year it's like when it's, especially when it's injury. Like it's not like, ah, we built the roster wrong or this guy wasn't who we thought he was. It's literally just you're more banged up than you thought. It's a brutal spot to be in. All right. That is all we've got with the week six hangover. We will be back tonight's Monday night with our week, our Monday night football recap.

If you're listening to this on Tuesday, that will be available in your YouTube fee. We got two Monday night games. So highly encourage you guys to go check that out. And then we've got a full. slate of shows coming your way for the rest of the week. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.