The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 6 Recap: Niners and Eagles lose, Bengals grind out another win, NFC South disappointment, and more

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

The unbeatens are no more in the NFL. The 49ers and Eagles, the last remaining undefeated teams in the league in 2023, both lost on what was probably the strangest Sunday of the season to date. Robert Mays and Nate Tice recap it all on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Nate on Twitter: @Nate_TiceSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is brought to you by LinkedIn: Right now, you can try LinkedIn Sales Navigator and get a sixty-day free trial at LinkedIn.com/MAYS23. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic football show. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, joining me tonight. It's my good friend, Nate Tystane. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing very well. Much like myself in high school, college, and even now, the bills really wanted to cram in everything they had to do on Sunday night before Monday morning kicked in.

How long have you been sitting on that one? Just for the last like 10 minutes? It was just for the last about 30 seconds as I just sat here. and as the lo-fi beats are playing before we go live. And I just, yeah, it kind of came to me. Yeah, cram it on a Sunday night. That's my way to describe how the bills play today. But I also, I'm doing very, very well.

Hope you're doing well as well. I am a crazy week. We've got a lot of stuff to dig into. Not a week that lends well to our tidy little boxes that we like to have. So we're going to try to figure out the best ways to tackle a very strange week in the NFL. Let's start with the game that we just watched, or at least the last part of the game that we just watched, the bills escape what would be a pretty brutal loss to Tyrod Taylor and the corpse of the New York Giants offense that we've watched for a good majority of the

year. Any concern about Buffalo after a game like this? Or it's just one of those weird game, weird night, not something to really take moving forward? I think it was a weird game, weird night. Also, a little bit of Josh playing to his chaotic side. in a bad way and then kind of just channeling that energy to better uses, much like a kid with maybe some hyperactivity when they're young and just channel it, just channel it a little bit. But I'm not too concerned. I think it was a funky night game. You know, credit to the Giants.

I mean, they were hanging in the whole game. But yeah, not on my bingo card that Tyraud Taylor would throw for more yards than Josh Allen in this type of game. That was not something I would expect to going into this night. So yeah, but I think honestly I'm not too worried about the bills, but I actually feel a little bit better about the defense, but hopefully you feel better about the defense going against this giant's offense right now. It's kind of just hurting that Tyrod Taylor did as much or more with this Giants offense than Daniel Jones has over the first few weeks of the season. I mean, that's not a good sign. And the bills, though, I mean, you're one potential pass interference on again, that final play after getting one to set up the final play of the game from losing this game to the Giants.

So just something to monitor. But this was a strange week all the way around because the two teams at the top of the standings in the NFL both lost. We have no more undefeated teams in the NFL this season after both the Niners and the Eagles go down today. And that is where we're going to start. Let's dig into Cleveland beating this Niners team with PJ Walker playing quarterback. A really, really impressive performance from the Brown's defense. There's really no way around it. Whether all those, taking all those things into account, even,

a really, really impressive showing from Cleveland in that defense today. Yeah, especially in the second half. And especially when Christian McCaffrey went out. And it was a Brown's defense taking it to a 49ers offense that often dictates so many games. The 49ers only had one successful play in the entire second half until that last drive, the little two-minute drive to go for the winning field goal at the end of the game. They had 16 dropbacks in the second half. Here are the gains on those dropbacks.

I had to list these all off. It's amazing. Zero. Interception, negative 10, which was a sack. 1.0, 0, 0, 0, 0.10. 10 yards on a second and 21. 0.0. And then we get into the two minute drill.

But the 49ers average distance to go today was on third down was 11.1 yards. I mean, this Brown's defense is ridiculous. all I what is it four of the best six defensive performances I saw a couple people people tweet this today um this year so far from the browns defense like they're just doing this against everybody now going against a 40-nir's team yes that had some injuries especially to mcalfrey but they were playing very well throughout this game the browns are playing with their backup quarterback the browns are playing without two of their starting offensive linemen everyone's banged up at this point that's just how it works when you get this deep into the season so I understand those guys were

hurt, but a lot of people have injuries. And the performance that the Browns defense put together still absolutely ridiculous. The number that jumped out to me because I was looking at it from the perspective of when have we seen this from this Niners team? Because they've been so good over the last couple of years. So they were today successful on 35.4% of their offensive plays. That is the worst single game success rate that the Niners have had since the second game of the 2017 season.

Oh, first year. Which is back when Brian Hoyer was playing quarterback in the first year of the college, 40-knit experience. Yeah, the like spunky, like, yeah, good for them 49ers of 2017. It was their first time, yeah, their worst offensive success rate since then. It was only the second game they've been low,

but they've been below 36% since 2017. That's how good the Browns were today. And we could talk about any player on the Browns defense because what is most impressive to me, with this Brown's defense right now is that the stars we know. We know Denzo Ward, who had his moments today,

we know Miles Garrett. The two guys who I just kept noticing today when I were watching the game, one Mo Hearst. The juice that Mo Hurst is playing with on that defensive line, and then you get deeper and deeper into the depth on that defensive line.

Every single one of those guys plays with the same sort of energy and the same sort of juice, which reminds me of how the Niners play, which is very funny. It's that sort of feeling when you watch this team. And another guy who I thought jumped out today had a couple really nice plays was Roddy

McLeod. And if you look at the Niners game or the Browns game plan in this game, they use their big nickel package with McLeod, Delpit, and Thornhill on 27 plays together in this game. They had done it on 54 plays all season until this game. So clearly their plan against this Niners team was we're going to play those three safeties on the field at the same time. We're going to play a bunch of man coverage because we don't think you can dictate matchups to us when we have that group out there. And that combined with the way they played up front was a really good formula against the Niners today. Yeah.

And how they, especially when CMC went out and they're leaning into man coverage, they had answers to the other stuff that manipulates defenses. The foreignaires are so good at doing, especially in the past game. And the Browns are in manned coverage and there's several looks where they're just rushing five, they're getting those five to get home. And they're going to have a lot of advantages against this 49ers offensive. the line that has been better, but they don't, you know, it's not a bunch of all-stars. And the Brown's defense, they have guys across the board.

This was, there's so many times where several guys were winning. And that's why you didn't see some of those, you know, Brock Purdy step up and out, extend the plays a little bit because so many guys were winning across the board. And that's because they're rushing five. But I thought how those Browns' safety's played and how their rules were really good against the 49ers motions and pre-snap. A lot of those jet motions were at the snap of the ball. you'll see a lot of defenses, especially the intermediate defenses, bump across.

They look like almost kind of like, oh my God, what's just called the metronome thing? Yeah, yeah, clicking ball. Yeah, but instead the Browns, I saw this a couple times, was they had their safeties bump. So they kept it at depth. And they were saying, okay, we'll let you rally to that. We'll rally down to make those tackles. And I thought that was really interesting, that they were, they had a different answer, which is what Jim Schwartz is so good at doing.

He's one of these defense coordinators that's really good at. tweaking their game plans just a little bit depending on the opponent. And yeah, they just got really, really good defensive front. And honestly, though, is if the 4-9ers just make a couple field goals, they are still pulling off this game. And that's why it's really tough to beat this 40-N-Ires team is that you have to have a perfect game script to just stay in this game because you have to have, but you have to have a front that can get after them.

You have to be able to only rush four and get after them and hold your own against the run, but also against the pass. And that's what they did. They're just doing it against every team that they're going against this year. And even if they don't get a couple calls on that final drive to go down there and score, they probably don't win this game. I mean, that's kind of a phantom PI call on Tashon Gibson, which is worth thrown out there.

There were calls on both sides. I mean, the Niners got a couple. 25 combined penalties. Oh, yeah, I tweeted about the refs. I just said in Cleveland. It wasn't for either side. It was an ugly game. It was an ugly game from the referees, period.

But they needed a couple calls to go their way in order to win this game. My main takeaway from this is that the Brown's defense is good enough if they stay healthy to keep them in any game that they play. As long as they have most of those guys on the field, they have the depth, they have the personnel flexibility, and they have the talent top to bottom, and the way that they're being deployed, which I'm Schwartz there. I think they are put together to keep them in any single game they play. Because it's not like the Brown's offense did a ton today.

I do actually like the game plan and some of the things that they did. They ran the same pinpole run to the left like three different times in the second half. Clearly they're like, this is working for us. As long as we get them up field, we can get the ball on the perimeter. We can get like seven yards. And then they had a couple of different gash runs on that kind of double trap where they let guys get up field. And that so gap scheme runs, screens, which they had a couple calls back in this game. They were going to screen them to death.

That was always going to be the game plan with Cleveland playing against this Niners team. They did that, get the ball on the perimeter, a couple of traps. And that was enough with two big Amari. Cooper catches. One nails throw from PJ Walker on fourth down to whose name I can't even remember. It was number 18. The slot receiver they drafted last year

in the third round. Oh, one catch day. Bell? Yes. Bell? Yes. David Bell. I was thinking Ronnie Bell, but Ronnie Bell's on the Niners. So that was it. That was all that you needed on the offense because of how well the defense played. So I just think that if they can get their

quarterback back healthy at some point here in the next couple weeks and they get their offensive line, you know, Joe Petonio comes back. Defense is good enough where they are going to be hanging around in so many of these games because of the level that that group can play out. It's a flag carrying unit. They're just going to, every game, they're just going to lead the way.

They're going to dictate so many games because now every single offense that goes against them has to account for this defense. It's not where they go, hey, we can go fist for fist with these guys. It's like, no, we have to account for Miles Garrett and Zadarius Smith. And now, oh, now they get these five-man rush looks. and now they're running funky coverages on top of it. And then that affects your offense no matter what. And then you have to play a team game. So that's always taking an account.

It reminds me that they did like a psychological study about Tiger Woods always had a one-stroke advantage on everybody just psychologically. And like they actually excited it that he already had that. That's what going against an elite unit's like. And that's kind of what this Brown's defense is. You got you're down a stroke before the game even starts. Any big picture thoughts about the Niners offense coming out of this game? I don't think it was some They were moving the ball fine

The first half Yeah And even in the second half I don't think it was some indictment Of Brock Purdy playing against a good team I UK had a couple tough moments Balls that he normally brings in That would have been big plays in this game

He dropped It wasn't the best game From Purdy obviously The pick was bad You know the pick was a notably bad throw Notably bad moment But I think if they get a little bit healthier They're playing against a team

That's not the Browns I'm not concerned I don't think this is some sort of unearthing of what Brock Purdy really is. I just think this is playing against the best defense in football, most likely, in a rain game with a couple of your guys hurt. I don't think he was bad down the stretch. I think he was the reason they lost this game. Well, it's also, it's like there's no formula. It's like, oh, what's the formula you're going to take?

Well, can you have the Browns defensive players and Jim Schwartz dowling it up? That's the formula. So unless you have that type of front, and we saw a defense last week who has a scary. front in their own right when the Cowboys get absolutely shredded by this offense. So that even is tough. So you have to have every dial turn. You have to have luck. You have that IUC drop a deep touchdown. You have to have miss field goals. You have to have Purdy missing a couple of throws. Again, you have to have such a positive game script to even just be hanging with this team. It still gets some bounces to go. But do not want to take anything away from this Browns defense

because they are legit, very, very legit. One of the better defenses we've watched since we've started the show. It's been fantastic. There's no doubt. And it's just the ways that they can play. The fact that they can dictate to you all the time. Your whole personnel comment is so right. Now that they can change up who they're playing against, they have different answers. That's so important. Let's get to another team that played phenomenal on defense, especially in the second half today, and that is the New York Jets who knocked off the Eagles 20 to 14 handing the Eagles their first loss of the season. A little bit of a different sort of scripts, a little bit of a different sort of way this game unfolded. The Eagles just absolutely devastated by turnovers and

this game. They lost 18 points off of EPA on turnovers in this game. By the way, the Browns lost 13 and still won. So that has only happened five times this season. So that's how good the Brown's defense played is that their offense lost almost two touchdowns worth of turnovers and they still won the game. But the Eagles lost 18 points. That's a game script after your own heart as a Bears fan. Oh, my God. It's just the life I'm so used to. But the Eagles, it was to a point where they couldn't overcome it. It didn't matter if the Jets' offense was struggling and stretches. The Eagles offense turned the ball over four times. That's what

Jayone Hertz said after the game. If you turn the ball over four times in an NFL game, you expect to lose and that's exactly what happened. It's, I can't remember the percentage. It's 90-something percent. It's ridiculous. It's so hard. And the run game for the Eagles today was a little mortal, but it was

so hard. Ten carries for 18 yards for Gianjohn-Jupt in this game. Yeah, they had 35% running back success rate, which is 10% lower than their average. It's to start of 2021, kind of this new fangled kind of Eagles offense that we see now. But yeah, the Jets defense gave him more than it can handle and you just can't have turnovers. I mean, the first one was totally fluky.

You know, Dallas Goddard just. It's a great play by Jermaine Johnson, though. I want to give him credit because that, Jermaine Johnson made a really nice play on that ball. I mean, they ran like a funky pressure look, so he drops back into coverage. He finds Dallas Goddard and puts himself in a position to make that play. So a fluky play, but again, one where kind of opportunity means. luck in that very specific moment.

And again, that's another thing. There's like better teams and better players are near the ball. So they can take advantage of those plays. But the second interception was he just hurts all day today. It felt like that he was just taking that extra half second to confirm and throw. And I get it. You're going against a really good defense. I would do that too.

But in the second interception, it felt like he could have gotten rid of that maybe a half second earlier. That let Jermaine Johnson again get home. He kind of like had an extended pass rush. So that kind of gets the ball on his arm. But then the third one, I thought it was a, like, great job by the Jets defense kind of fooling Hertz. And it hurts pre-determining something. And it kind of was a great synopsis of what the Jets were kind of doing in the second half.

I totally agree with you. I'm excited for you to say this. Okay. So they're showing a blitz on it. And a lot of how Hertz reads the game, even if you're watching the Coltrane, I was Stiking, is that it's all, it's based on single high, two high reads. So if you're showing Blitz, what safety am I reading? Is this single high?

Is this too high? And the Jets show blitz. They come bail out of it. I think it's either spot drop cover three or inverted cover two. I wasn't sure for which one, but they play out basically the same. Either way, Hertz is anticipating to get rid of the ball. He thinks it's a blitz. So he's kind of backpedaling.

He's not really stepping into the throw. He's anticipating heat coming and pressure and guys getting pushed back into him. But he actually has a pocket and he should be progressing outside. But I get it. It's third down. You think you're getting heated up with covers zero. I totally get. why his clock was sped up. But they squeeze, gowdered on it and get the pick. But again,

I think it's because Hertz free determined it because there's no safety to read. He's all right, I'm blitz. I'm getting a blitz. I don't know if it's cover three. I don't know if it's cover two. I don't know if it's man. I'm thrown to this spot. And the Jets made a great play on it. But it was, yeah, I thought that was a great defensive look for a team that's out with all their corners. And they baited him into that interception in a huge moment. So that was a really nice play by them. Multiple times in the second half, they showed those pressure looks and then bounced back into his own coverage. There was a third and six with 848 left. There was the mesh play where Hertz held onto it and eventually I think either took a sack or there was, yeah, it was a sack.

Bryce off got the sack to finish off that play. And they're in a pressure look. They bail out of it. The Jets play a lot of man on third down. They play like 30% cover one on third down. And I think with cover zero included, it's like 35 to 37%. I would be very curious. I would be very curious. going back and looking at the numbers because they're not available right after the game ends, what percentage of man coverage they played on the third down today.

Because multiple different times in the third and fourth quarter, they showed those looks, bailed back into zone coverage, and Hertz just had trouble reading it out. So the game plan, I thought, was very smart with your corners out where you're at a talent disadvantage

on the outside, and then the talent advantage they did have was up front. After Lane Johnson went out, it was ballgame. Damn broke. Bryce Huff going against Matt Driscoll, whatever his name is.

Driscoll, Jake Triscoll, whatever it's Matt Driscoll. I think it's Matt Driscoll, number 63, whatever his first name is. Bryce off, that's a consistent advantage. And then Huff had his moments against Milata today as well. I mean, Bryce Huff was fantastic throughout this entire game. And you had some moments for other guys too. I mean, Quentin Johnson had, again, there was a backup bright guard in there for the Eagles. So that was the matchups that they could consistently take advantage of

was the right side of the offensive line, and they did enough to eventually give them a chance to win that game. Huff had nine pressures on 28 rush snaps, which is, he has the highest pressure rate in the week. He was a monster today. But you could feel it. When Lane Johnson went out, Hertz kept bailing out to the right because the pocket was getting collapsed, so he bails out to the right. And he's made plays on that early in the game. He had the nice holding off the defender as he throws it to AJ Brown play, which is a nice hero ball play. But 11 of his pass attempts came up from outside the pocket safe, which is the most, it's not

October 3rd, 2021. He had 10 last week. And his passer rating on throws outside the pocket this year, just straight up pass rating is 49.3. He has a 30% success rate on those throws, averaging 2. yards per attempt on throws outside the pocket this year. So if you get them outside the pocket, that's what it was today. It was, do you hold on to, can you contain that big play, which they did?

And it's a race to that. I mean, Hertz was holding out to the ball. They have no explosive plays. And that's how you could survive against this team. So it was just really. really good defensive play from the Jets all day to day, and they took advantage all the chances they had, and they got an awesome front. And my guy, Quincy Williams, delivered about four spears in the second half, which is always just a boom for me. I love the fist pump celebration.

I love the, like, exaggerated fist pump that he's got going on some of those plays. The second level of their defense was awesome in this game. I mean, just flying around the entire game. And with the injuries that they had on the back end, they really carried them that and a couple of those guys at front. And my guy Tony Adams, a couple big plays in this game. Another guy that's, you know, one of the unsung kind of heroes. He had the pick to kind of finish it off. He had a TFL at one point in the second half, just flying

downhill. So our Jets breakout players. Our Jets breakout players really doing some stuff today. So very, very impressive performance. It was. Any sort of long-term concern about the Eagles? That, this has been happening more often than not with their passing game. So I am getting a little concerned. They had four explosive plays today. And at first I was like, oh, that's got to be their lowest.

It was their second lowest since Sireani took over. Their lowest was in week one against the Patriots. And that's kind of just been a thing with their past game. It just feels disjointed. A lot of the big plays are broken pocket plays or A.J. Brown catching a six-yarder and turning into a 60-yarder. And, you know, that's not, I was going to say it's not sustainable, but with A.J. Brown, it is sustainable. So that's kind of talking about both sides of my mouth.

But I do feel it's very disjointed. like last week was their best game as far as throwing the ball, but it has not been consistent. They've been running the ball. Fine. I mean, very well, actually, throughout the year. But I do think this passing game has just not found its groove yet. I just don't think they've found that formula that works for them in 2023. And we went under the hood with it a couple weeks ago and still feels like it's a little bit off.

Oh, we're getting pressure. We're not running the screens that we did before. Maybe some of the RPOs aren't there. Feels a lot more down-the-field passing game and it's just not getting read out really well are really consistently right now. And I don't want to make it seem like, oh, the Eagles had a couple backup offensive linemen in there. That's why the Jets won this game.

The Jets have a bunch of backup offensive linemen in there, too, and they still manage to come out with the win, and they still manage to do enough on offense. Garrett Wilson, man, is something else. Even with the state of the Jets offense where it's uneven, to say the least, he is still capable of making two, three ridiculous plays that give them a chance. And Brees Hall is the same sort of deal. Those two guys, I mean, that's kind of the formula. right now is we have these two ridiculous second year skill players that are maybe going to give us

four or five moments a game while our defense carries us. And it's not an ideal formula. It's not what the formula was supposed to be coming into the year. But there are worse ways to try to win an NFL game. Like I just made that joke about bears, you being used to these types of games scares as a Bears fan. I mean, this was the Rex Ryan Jets all the way. Just ride the defense and hopefully you get four or five explosive plays and you're good to go. Uh, uh, uh, No, the Jets offensive line, though, even though they're, you know, banged up. Like, they had some, like, good run plays today. Like, they're just straight up running duo down the eagle's throat.

I was shocked. I can't remember who it was. I think it was Titman and McGovern on one of those really nice Breeshall runs where they're just getting tons of movement. And I was like, man. Okay. Yeah. So you got some pieces and Max Mitchell was back your right tackle. And, you know, he had, you know, obviously that that wasn't the plan going into the season, but he had some moments as a rookie.

So the whole goal was, can we. fine five guys. And even with AVT out and some of the injuries that they've had to endure, if they can just get five workable players up there and combine it with the way that they're playing defense, the hope is that they just kind of hang around in some of these games. And that's exactly what happened today. They've got enough talent on defense where it's not like the Browns where I don't think it matters who they're playing against.

That's the best defense in football, in my opinion. They're going to keep them in the game. But the Jets are definitely only half a step down from that in terms of how competitive they're going to be because of the players they have on that side of the ball. Totally agree. It's a worthy defense. It's been fun to watch them kind of compete these last couple weeks. Also, shout out Eagle's side, though.

Shout out to Milton Williams, the defensive tackle for them. He's played some good football this season for them. Kind of a, I don't know. I've been pleasantly surprised. I keep seeing him making plays. And I'm like, oh, okay, that's, I think it's 98. And it's not 98. So, yeah, making some good plays there.

Good job, Milton Williams. I just want to give him a shout up. So it's not all negative for the Eagles. we'll look at the long-term prognosis for Elaine Johnson. It sounds like a high ankle sprain potentially, which is definitely not good news. He's played through some bullshit in the past. It's hard to keep him off the field at this stage. He was on the field for most of the season last year, even if he wasn't 100%.

It would be a pretty devastating loss. We saw the impact that has. Not every team is going to have Bryce off and not every team is going to have the Jets front, but he is an incredibly valuable piece to the way the Eagles operate because Hertz likes to stand in there. We know that. And so giving him that sort of time and giving him that sort of protection is pretty important to the way the Eagles want to operate in the passing game. So definitely something to keep an eye on.

And the Eagles have a pretty ridiculous schedule moot coming up here. They've got Miami at Washington, then Dallas, KC, Buffalo, San Francisco, Dallas, Seattle is their stretch here. So we're going to find out a lot about at Casey and at Seattle. Good thing those places are known to me to be very easy to play at too. That's tough. It's going to be a tough stretch for the Eagles. We're going to find out a lot about this team. The FC's a fist fight.

AFC's a fist fight. Everything's a fist fight. It's crazy, man. Gentlemen, you had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. Every week, obviously, the Sunday NFL schedule is just a wall of stuff coming at you. We like to pick out a few performances that kind of made us sit up in our chairs and take notice. No real shocking outcomes here.

I think the two that we would have said were probably the Browns defense and the Eagles defense, which we started the show with. But I want to start with just the contenders taking care of business. You know, a lot of teams today, the bill's almost screwed this up, which is a day-long thing. But just a lot of teams that are right up there at the top of the league. And teams we talked about on Thursday as we kind of did our league-wide reset looking at the hierarchy of the NFL, the top 10 teams in the league. a lot of them just doing what they needed to do today. And let's start with the Lions beating the Bucks 20 to 6. Not the best performance from the Lions offense in terms of like points and outcome.

But I just think on both sides of the ball, another performance that showed us who this Lions team is. Really, really good on defense. I think the Bucks had the second worst success rate of any team in the league today on offense. And you could feel that. I mean, the Lions defense was that good. And I thought the Lions offense, even if they weren't as efficient on first and second down as they tip. typically are. They were fantastic on third down today. Nine of 16. They still have the third best EPA per drive of any team in the NFL this week. And some on the nails, throws and plays from Jared Gough and that offense, it's a pretty high leverage moment. So even if it wasn't the cleanest game, you play on the road against a wonky defense that's played really well this year and you come away with a two score win. You got to feel pretty good about that. Yeah. Wonky defense is right. That buck's defense is never easy just because they have doubles just makes it so.

weird. But yeah, third down. This is where Bad Johnson, this coach and staff are just so great. Red Zone, third down, shot plays. The designer plays every single week that you change week to week. You know, most part change week to week. They do such a great job. Those nine for six, those nine gains on third down. They had gains of 12, 27, 20, 28, 11, 12, 45 and 12. Like they, it wasn't just just getting past the sticks. It was like chunk, chunk down. I mean, golf. And when it was just past the six, it was a third and 11 where they back with Khalif Raymond.

So, I mean, it's even when it was, it was because they were facing third and extra long. Yeah. And the James William touchdown was awesome. It was third and ten. And it was just a flood concept. And so the difference between flood and sail. Sale is a deep corner, a flat, and a go. So there's two outbreakers.

Flood is three outbreakers. So you have a deep corner by Jameson Williams. You have kind of like a medium corner by Amundrae St. Brown. and then I can't remember who the third corner was, but I think Josh Reynolds had the flat route. So there's three outbreakers on here. But it was really cool because knowing you're going against Todd Bulls, the Lions went on the cheat account,

which is as soon as the center grabs the ball, he snaps it. We make sure everyone's set. And then he snaps it. So there's no ready go. There's no set hut. There's no step. And against a blitz happy team like the Bucks, you can kind of catch them kind of just wandering as they got the play call out.

And they're getting all said, okay, you guys are in three by one. And you can even see, I looked at the dots on this as well, is that the snap of the ball, all the dots are just kind of like, you can see they're like angled the wrong way. Like the 54 is like looking the wrong way and then turns over. So the ball snapped, deep, deep corner Jameson Williams. He's on Ryan Neal. Ryan Neal's the safety.

He's on the opposite side of the field. But because this is a blitz look, it's Todd Bulls. It's like, that's the funky look. And now you get Jameson Williams on his safety. So I just love that. Again, it's a little design tweak. It's nothing crazy. We're just going to snap the ball really quick.

Then we're going to put a lot of heat at the deep corner. But because of those little design wrinkles, it unlocks a giant touchdown on a third and ten, which should be advantageous for the defense. But that's what this team does every week. Doesn't matter what they're getting presented. They have great design stuff and they have good, tough players. You have Craig Reynolds coming in with a hot tag blown up. One of the coolest players of the entire game.

Just coming out to absolutely nowhere, cleaning a guy out. And that was a third and long. It was a third and 13 that they score a touchdown on because, Craig Reynolds make that sort of play. And I think that honestly speaks to what it is like to watch this Lions team right now. Think about how many times they got their hands on the ball on defense today. How many tip balls? The Isaiah Bugs tip on the interception.

There was the third down where they're trying to throw like a quick now screen. I think it was the Godwin that they get a hand on. They're just the effort really shows up. And when you combine that with the level of talent that they have and like you talk about some of those design tweaks that we're consistently seeing. from them in high leverage moments, they're just a really good football team. And again, it's not, the bucks aren't a contender. The bucks aren't one of the best teams in the league, but to go on the road and win this sort of game in convincing fashion, that's what you want to see if you're going to talk

about the Lions as a team that is going to be there until the end. You can't sweepwalk, sleepwalk against the bucks. Like they're going to, they'll knock you out. They'll like if you're not ready for them. And yeah, it was a great performance by the lines. The teams got great vibes right now. I enjoy, I just enjoy watching them. I do both sides, both sides of the ball.

It's just a very, very fun to watch. And golf's playing good ball right now too. So yeah, really fun watching the lines right now. I'll be curious again. And they're legit good. Like, what were they fourth in our little power rankings show that we did last week? I mean, I feel justifiably. Yeah.

They're playing really good football. Again, the numbers are occasionally walking, wonky and true media right after the game ends. Some of the player tracking stuff. I'll be curious when those kind of normalized over the next 24 hours or so, what the blitz rate was. And where it ranks compared to. some of the other games the Lions have played. This is the most I can remember a team trying to heat them up.

And, you know, Jared Gough has struggled in those moments at times during his career. So them being able to be as efficient as they were offensively and hit as many of those big plays in high leverage moments as they did, I think is kind of notable considering the style of play on the other side of the ball. Agreed. Yeah, this is a team that could catch them in the past. And yeah, no, I totally agree. They had good answers for it.

The Dolphins take care of business against the Panthers. The Panthers, not a ton to say about this other than the dolphins took care of business against the Panthers. And they do three things a game that I don't think I've ever seen before in an NFL game. And today was no exception. They did, they did a legit single wing play. I've been saying Flexbone. We're going for a different one. We're going single wing.

Yeah, they did one of those. They got new motions. The Moert's first touchdown, I believe it was. It was gorgeous. Yeah. That's one of the flavors of the year. It's the four strong with a blocker out. from the swing route.

And actually I saw, I saw that play maybe six times today in good and bad capacities. Gino Smith threw a pick on it. I saw that touchdown, the most, mozert. I think I saw the, on Thursday night, a team ran it in the red zone, I believe. But yeah, everyone's around that play right now. But yeah, they've just so much speed. As soon as one guy, it's just, Tiger Cale has spin around where I feel like he was one inch from the ground as he was like spinning and he comes out of it full speed and

gains like another 10, 15 yards. So it's just you make it almost. take against the team. They just pop. They're down 14-0-0. Then they start with back-to-back three and outs. And you would never know. It doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter. They can score in an instant over and over. With Justin Jefferson out and even with Justin Jefferson playing, I watch a game way today and it's hard for me not to think that Tyree kill is the most impactful non-quarterback in the league right now based on what he is for that offense. Yeah, I think McCaffrey is another good one. And you saw with that offense.

You saw them struggle without McCaffrey. But what Tyree Kill is for that offense playing and play out and just what his presence allows them to do today was a real reminder of that. I mean, he went out for a little bit. But every single time he's on the field, he allows that offense to be what it wants to be. And it's terrifying. His touchdown today was exact same Randy Moss formula that Randy Moss would score touchdowns on. It was the Panthers are in cover two to stop Tiger Kill going deep,

the safety hesitates for one second and looks inside and it's a touchdown. It's just a go-bought straight run, run by everybody touchdown. But that's what they do. You make one mistake. You peek inside for a half second too long. It's not just a big play. It's a touchdown. But that's what this team is doing.

It's just over and over, week and week out. Again, every wrinkle that they add is so much fun to. And the run game is so much better this year. And it's so much more dynamic this year. And then being able to have that layer to the offense on top of what they can do in terms of creating explosive plays through the air. It's just a real beast to have to deal with right now. And today was another example of it.

Keep going to here, ticking these down. The Jags just take care of business against the Colts just to turnover fest for Indianapolis. I mean, the Jags weren't even that great on offense today and still managed to put them away pretty easily because of what their defense was doing. And it's fun to watch the defense for Jacksonville kind of smell blood in the water a little bit in those moments and play like that sort of unit. They've been really good all a year. And I think today, again, even when they weren't playing very well on offense, they carried them and made it kind of a cakewalk against the Colts team that had been really good offensively, no matter who was playing quarterback over the first five weeks. Yeah, this Jags offense now has had moments where they've been efficient, they've been explosive, they've been both, they've been frustrating in both capacities. But the defense has been the most consistent part of this team.

And I'm kind of glad Andre Sisko had a pick today because he kind of like is. been the epitome of this defense where he's just stepping up and ascending. And I mean, a lot of these guys. But Josh Allen, it's been fantastic this year. He had another good day, putting pressure on. And they were forcing mistakes. They took advantage of the mistakes. They did enough on offense. And yeah, they had some frustrating times, but they also do some fantastic things. And Trevor just makes a couple throws. They were just like, oh, my God. And I said to you guys in the pre-show, he's just like his rookie year. It's like, it's the most exciting 180 yards that you'll ever watch. It's the best. I don't know, man.

I've watched 300-yard games, 400-yard games that don't compare some of his 190-yard games. But no red zone woes today, but they were a little iffy on third down, which is what some of the frustrations probably came from. And at least one of the sacks came on ETN and protection, as opposed to the offensive line, which, you know, it's going to get tested.

But, yeah, this defense, though, has been very legit. It's good to see them kind of maybe getting home a little bit with some pressures. It's just nice to see them win in different ways. I mean, that's the benefit of when you have two units on either side of the ball that can carry you, depending on how the game goes, and just depending on how things bounce. And that's the mark of a good team.

That's the mark of a team that's going to be relevant deep into the season. And I think that's what they're starting to feel like, even if the offense can be a little bit frustrating at times, what they're doing on both sides of the ball. It's like, okay, this team is four and two. This team is four and two with three very nice wins in a row against competitive teams. And now they're starting to roll a little bit. And we'll see them against the Saints on Thursday night this week.

but yeah I mean those games where okay the offense isn't fantastic but the defense does so much that it just doesn't matter that's what you like to see that's what good teams can do yes we talk about ability to pivot maybe just on an offense but ability to pivot that you win in different ways with your team it's a team sport whether it's special teams offense or defense that's what you need again not every team can just lean on like you know the chiefs that even had to find ability to pivot in different ways and this team or this year's chief's team is having a defense having some great. good games too. I also just want to talk about one design thing was the ETN touchdown was sweet. And actually, I think they copied it from your Chicago Bears last Thursday. And it was a Justin Fields run. And they had Travis ETN doing a wildcat on this one. But basically it's blocked. I could end around. It's like a reverse blocking, but they do it out of a quarterback run look, which I think is interesting. I'm curious more teams will lean into that. It's not new, but I've now have seen two teams copy it in a week. So maybe that gets proliferated. especially when a touchdown gets scored on it. It's really pretty.

It might be a wind-the-clock candidate. Oh, I like that. All right. Yeah. Last one here, the Ravens knock off the Titans. Another very frustrating day from Baltimore and what they did in the Red Zone. But again, they do enough on defense. They managed to hold off a Titans team that in other situations, maybe with those red zone woes, that game goes differently.

But still nice to see them kind of take care of business, even if it was a little bit more frustrated than you want to see. Yeah, it felt like a Titans Ravens game. just with more vowels because it was in the UK. Lamar was on fire to start the game, but it was just, yeah, it was the Red Zone stuff. And I actually do want to kind of clap back at some people that are like, man, they're running the ball too much in the Red Zone. It's, it was Lamar scrambled. And those are dropbacks guys. Those are called passes. So I saw, and there's a couple of plays. There's a couple of run plays that the Ravens were trying. They were trying like a toss pinpole to

the outside. And both times they ran in the Red Zone, one guy stumbled or missed a block. And it would have been just a walk-in touchdown. And instead, it's like a one-yard gain. That can be very frustrating. By the way, I've been feeling anecdotally that a lot of teams are struggling in the red zone early in the year. So I decided to look it up. This is the lowest touchdown rate in the red zone throughout the NFL since 2012 through

six weeks, as of before entering Monday night football. You think that's noisy or you think that's the product of something? A little noise. I think it's just early season frustrations and figuring things out. But I do think some, you know, like a. couple years ago was over 60% you know it doesn't just drop that much i do think some defenses have gotten really good at what the new offensive answers have been some the qb run game stuff some i mean how many frustrating sprintouts have there been so far this season in the and the

low red zone and i do think defenses have got better passing stuff off not getting cotton man coverage they just have found answers we saw spike in like 2020 and i think again you defenses find answers for what the offense try to do they adapt they adapt they adapt they adapt now we're going to hit the Nader and it will bounce right back up. And I'm sure maybe throughout the season, they'll find new answers. There's a little noise, but there is some defensive answers being happening right now throughout the league. I also think the idea of they're throwing the ball so efficiently.

Why would they run when they get into the red zone? More passing equals good. The game changes when you get into the red zone. Your ability to throw the ball between the 20s doesn't necessarily indicate how well you'll throw the ball when the field starts to compress. It's considered a whole different. section on the call sheet and how offenses and defenses look at their teams. The red zone is a totally

different area. Yeah, but again, the Ravens, you look at success rate, everything else today. I mean, their offense was fine for a good chunk of this game. You have one bad pick. I thought the choice at the end of the half was interesting. We could talk about really quickly. They got the ball back with 147 left. Okay. They're up 15 to 3. They're on the minus 17. They run the ball twice and tick off about a minute of time and then start to try to drive down the field.

And I understand, again, it's 147, you're up by 12. If you just try to go to the half and you run the ball in the first couple of those plays, you're almost ensuring that the Titans will not get another possession. But you're also limiting what you can do with your possession. You've been moving the ball so efficiently so far in the first half, you have time to try to score a touchdown there. They had all three time outs left. Yes. And so I can understand trying to limit the downside risk by how you approach that possession, but they're getting the ball at half. And so you're one pick away, one bad play away, one bad bounce away from this suddenly becoming a game

if you don't come away from that possession with points. Like that's a real possession and just conceding it to them. And eventually they did end up getting three because of a muffed punt, but that wasn't how they tried to approach it. So I get Bulls. sides, but when you're rolling on offense like they were, I just think you can put the game away there. If you're up 12, you go to the half up 19, just treat that like a real possession in my mind. Yeah, I understand how they started it because it was like a one year. I'm just looking at the play by play because it was the one year loss.

This was 730 West Coast time. So you guys got to forgive me for not remembering all of it. Yeah, one year loss, get tick, tick, tick, tick, okay, 10 yard gain on second 11. And then third and one, you get the first. And I'm surprised they don't bang the time out there. they basically lost about 10 second it's there and that's interesting to me. Like you know, you get that first, first down.

Then it's like, okay, okay, reset. But it looks like they're trying to hurry up and do all that. So that is interesting because that is not as aggressive as I feel like they could be. And also, you know, you're going against the Titans a little bit. You know, so like, you know, I mean offensively. Like so, you know, you're not worried. I don't know. I feel like you could just be the aggressor there.

So that's my thought. It's like, what's the worst thing that can happen? Okay, you're on run, run the ball on first down. so you make sure you don't go three and out there. Okay. That's fine. You took some time off there, but what's the worst case outcome if you run the ball on first down, tick down 20 seconds?

You're giving it back to them with maybe a minute left after you punt. Your defense is playing fantastic. Like maybe you're a little bit concerned about them going two for one at the end of the half and then getting the ball back. But I just think there are so few possessions in an NFL game and to kind of concede one like that when your offense was rolling the way that theirs was, just a little bit surprising to me. So I get both sides of it, but I just wouldn't have handled it that way. You have a quarterback.

One for nine. Really well. And there's 147 left with three timeouts. So I just think that you can be a little bit more aggressive in that specific situation. But they come away with the win. So that's what matters. One more here. Bengals defense.

You have my attention. Really rough second half for the Bengals offense did not move the ball nearly as well as they did in the first half. And it did not matter because of what the defense did, especially down in the red zone today. Seahawks, I believe, had five possessions with goal to go opportunities in this game. One touchdown, one field goal, two turnovers on downs, one interception. If you look at the overall numbers, like the Seahawks did move the ball fairly efficiently between the 20s and getting down there.

But in this game, those moments and those stops down in that area of the field were enough to win. And now you have a Bengals team that is three and three at the by. after everything that they went through. And you have to be feeling pretty good if you're Cincinnati after this game today. If you told Bengals fans the beginning of year, you'd be happy to be 3 in 3. They'd be, they would just be, what's? Are you kidding? What happened?

Bengals had 13 QB hits today. They had 24 pressures. Like, they were getting after Gino. And of course, the CX are going to invite some of that. They go empty a lot. They like to push the ball a lot. But yeah, this was a Lou Anerumo special. Like, you see third down in red zone.

again, this is situational stuff. Just like we're talking about the offense, it's defense too. There was a third and five throwaway from Gino late in the game. And the Bengals were like in a two man slash robber, like hybrid look. And it was basically why that's funky, just to kind of give you like a little short version is they show to one side a two man look, which means these defenders are playing with inside leverage. So I'm going to throw outbreakers against that. But on the other side, they ran one high look and they had the safety hanging over with outside leverage. So, and you can see Gino go, what the hell?

And it would have got to me too. And they got him a couple times with that. They moved. They were doing some zone stuff. They were switching guys right to snap the ball. A lot of good post-knap movement. And then, you know, they attacked Phil Haynes, who's at left guard, number 60 for the Ciox. He had a long day to day.

Sam Hubbard had a nice day to day. And I actually thought Gino played fairly well, maybe step up once or twice in the podcast. But this defense, though, was just he was pushing the right buttons. Just the third down. Those red zone knew when to bring cover zero, knew one not to. And these guys are passing stuff off really well. So yeah, they just stepped up right the right exact time when they needed to. Why this is encouraging is that when they were losing, the defense just wasn't playing

very well. And if this is going to be a relevant team in the AFC, obviously the offense in Burrow and they need to look right and they need to look like the team that we expected them to be. But this defense was supposed to be an above average unit coming into the year. And they had their struggle so far this season. So for them to be the one that kind of carried the day for the Bengals to win a game against a pretty damn good Seahawks team, I think that's notable. Because I think it's a moment that this group needed if this Bengals team is going to be the team that people thought they might be. Absolutely.

We thought of them as a complete team. We said maybe the Bengals some weeks aren't a top 10 defense, but they can hang with every offense because of what they do situationally. and what they do on game plan. So this felt like that vintage, vintage being the last two years, Bengals defense and Lou Anuromo defense, but it really did. It just really felt like they were turning the right dials

at the right exact time, which is what you love to see. Even they brought a cover zero, sorry, I'm just littering this podcast with the scheme stuff today, but it was some good stuff. They ran a cover zero, and it was a six-man protection beater.

Like literally, there's no answer the offense could have against this look, against this blitz they brought. But again, the defense has to timed it up perfectly because they can get caught if a motion happens or certain things happen. So again, just turn the right dials, pressing the right buttons at the right exact time. Another guy who had some nice moments today, you mentioned Hubbard,

Cam Sample, which is digging into some of the depth for the Bengals. He had a sack. He had another pressure in a big time play. So guys stepping up and then Mike Hilton coming up with a couple big time plays in this game. So a nice, nice things to see from the Bengals defense after some early season struggles. And again, they hit the by, feeling. and much better than they might have when you look back to the way the first couple's weeks of the season went. Yeah, they're going to enjoy it. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed.

Each week we like to pick out a performance or two that, again, we're not mad at it. We're just disappointed. And today, that is what is going on in the NFC South. Does anyone want to win the NFC South? Both the Saints and the Falcons just... giving games away today and just did nothing that you want to see, especially down the stretch in the second half from these teams. Where do you want to start? You want to start with how disappointing the Falcons were in the high leverage moments or the Saints offense not being able to muster 20 points.

I'll do the Falcons one real quick because there's a weird, like a lot of great drives happening for the Falcons today. And then just the terrible interceptions, the second one that happened in the end zone, but that was a domino effect of. mismanagement happening that kind of led to that. Like it really was a cause and effect moment happening near the, this happens sometimes with substitutions and even thinking like other sports like hockey, like near the goal line and near the red zone, it's harder to substitute. Teams can't go past the 30, you know, in the coach's box and everything and the players

can't. So it's further to run when you have to sub or do personnel stuff. And even sometimes the headset can get funky for whatever reason, not just in Foxborough. And on that secondary reception, they got a. delay a game on the play before. It was third goal from like the one or two yard line. Yeah. And they got delay a game because they sub late. And then they gave a long person, a long play call. And because they're doing all the shifting and motioning. So it was a classic moment of the Falcons becoming their

own worst enemy. Like their kind of cuteness and I love, I love these fun designs. But this was a moment where it was like, just be simple, just be simple, just be simple. Because everything, you could see everybody melting down. And Dalman the center is trying to make a protection change. And so they get a delay game. Then the next play, the same thing's happening. tick, tick, tick. And so Ritter's like, I'm not getting yelled at for this. So he snaps the ball and it just comes on Ravled. And it's a classic quarterback case of making a bad play worse.

You just, the play's unravel. It's chuck it. You guys are going for it on fourth down. Yeah, it sucks. They have to waste a play. But you can't just be doing that and throwing it up there. It's just too valuable. So it's just one of those where it's just a bad situation there.

And then the defense actually played pretty damn well. They just got stuck with two shortage fields. But yeah, those back break and mistakes. mistakes. You just can't have them, especially if you're moving the ball. And they didn't run the ball that well. The commander's defense played really well that way, but they passed the ball. Okay. Again, two weeks in a row. So a fourth and goal, he throws the ball up to St. Juxte gets picked off, right? It's not ideal after that delay of game, but you can understand how it happens on forked down. End of the game, slant to Bijan gets intercepted by Jamon Davis. Bejohn doesn't take that back

flat to the quarterback. And it's just one of those moments where it's like, I can understand how that happens. I need you to explain to me how the pick at the beginning of the second half happens and what is going on in that moment and where he's trying to go with the ball. This is what this podcast is becoming. I have to be the Desmond Ritter play by play guy. So the interception happened. I think it was a stick concept, I think, like third and seven. I think it was. I was a bunch to the left. Bejan, Bejon takes it vertical. I couldn't understand where he was throwing the ball and listening to it. Matt Ryan didn't understand where he was throwing the ball either. He didn't know who he was throwing it to. That's why I had no notes on it because it was just

like, I don't know. So you just a miscommunication. I know. I think, you know, when you're targeting Van Jefferson who's been there for six days or whatever it is that maybe, maybe a little miscommunication happened there. Um, I thought the Bejohn won the third one, I actually, they were kind of like teleghing it. They motioned them out to one and the linebacker falls. I swore there into a sluggo there, like a slango, like kind of like a leaning into punch moment. Sure. And then they ran to slant. And I was like, yeah, you know, you're going to trust Bijan there. But he kind of fades on the route.

But I don't know the first pick I think was a miscommunication. That's kind of what I chalk it up to. But that's kind of what their day was. Miscommunications on third down and near the goal line. That's not how you want to live. They can't live that way. And they had a wheel to Bejohn that should have been a big play. He just missed it.

It was just another one of those games where it's just like little bits of frustration and really big back key turnovers. Their second play. they had a double pass and and it gets it's like off the receiver's fingertips. Then they have like a deep ball to Van Jefferson off the fingertips. It's like, again, but this is how this offense has to play. They can't have mistakes. They're not Mahomes or Josh Allen that can just, you know, we just watch the bills mess around for three quarters.

And then Josh Allen's like, all right. You know, let's get this loose. Like that's not how the Falcons are built. So in this Mucky NFC, there's going to be a lot of these types of games, some teams that we think are good sometimes and some teams we think we're bad they're just going to go up and down up and down this whole year thankfully for them no team is taking running away with this division the saints also lose today in a very frustrating outing against the texans where they keep stalling out consistently as they get not really even into the red zone but like anytime they move the ball

past the houston 35 yard line it felt like all hell was going to break loose especially out front and that was the most frustrating thing watching the saints today is that they really are struggling to block people. I mean, Trevor Penning, again, had some really awful moments in this game, and he wasn't alone. So I just don't really know what to make of the Saints offense, how hurt Derek Carr is. They had some kind of confusing moments where, like, there was a fourth and four late in the game. throws about five yards short of the sticks, Dalvin Camara, who gets stopped short. There was a third and long at one point in the first half.

He throws it to Taysam Hill. Tassum Hill had like 10 targets in this game. I just don't really know what to make of what. what the Saints are on offense right now. That's kind of all I had in my notes was I don't know what to make of this offense. I know what the defense is. I actually feel pretty good about the defense. But this Derek Arthur throws for 353 yards and they score 13 points.

Like that just feels off. And that's how this whole offense always feels every week. Like, okay, it's like the run game gets going. But then like or beginning of Rashid she had the great post route touchdown to him. And it's like, oh, there it is. There's some juice with this offense. Yeah. They just can't put it home.

They have mistakes in clutch moments or bad moments that they shouldn't be having mistakes. So yeah, just very frustrating. Fade balls to end the game. And it's like, what are you guys doing? But yeah, the fourth and four won the fourth quarter was really disappointing. Seven point, seven point game and throws it shorter behind the line of scrimmage than they have to go to get the first down. So yeah, that was pretty interesting. Yeah, I just, this division, I knew it was going to be like this where it was going to be tight most likely.

but I just didn't expect, I thought the Saints offense with their car would be kind of less frustrating than it's been in years past. That doesn't seem to be the case. And again, I think it's because they're playing worse up front than we might have anticipated. Like this is just no longer a strength for this team anymore is what their offensive line looks like. And I didn't expect the Falcons to be the sort of team that shot themselves in the foot as often as they have so far this season. So even if we knew this is going to be a tight race, it's not exactly what I expected the NFC South race to look like. Falcons getting carried by their defense, you know, and they're moving the ball by chucking it left and right? It's like, what is this? What is going on right now? And yeah, this Saints team, I think that's what it is. I think for my entire adult life, they've had a strong offensive line or somewhat near one. And so it's kind of weird to see this team kind of just be so up and down. And yeah, Penning is a big issue. They have some injuries, of course. They're moving guys all around. And yeah, Derek Carr doesn't do well with pressure. So it's not a great formula for.

long term, but this is kind of what they have. CJ's track catchers, though. God, a lot. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's such a good player. And she's good. She has so much juice.

Again, I mean, the idea that. He's a real receiver than I gave him credit for. Like he actually does. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, he's good. He's one of those guys. Every single time I'm watching him, like, oh, man.

He just really jumps off the screen when you watch the play. And there are times of the touchdown even today. I was like, oh, it's a loving. And then I see, I see the two. And I was like, oh man, they have a couple of these guys. And I think that's why I want more out of it. Same.

Because when you watch some of these offenses that consistently struggle, it's just because they don't have that gear. And the Saints absolutely have that gear to them. And so to watch them be so inconsistent and have those stretches where they're just torpedoing themselves after they get, not even, again, not into the red zone, but they're moving the ball really well between the 20s. And then they get down there and it's just like, oh, man, you have a tripping penalty, you have a holding penalty, you take a sack.

And that's just what is consistently happening again, because they are at a disadvantage of front against a Texan's front that's fine. But Jonathan Greener doing what he did to Trevor Penning today is not what you want to see if you're a Saints team that's trying to compete. That's exactly it. Yeah, it's just, I told you with you, that I look at them and I see some plays in the past concepts to Saints, dude. They're all the classics. So it's not like we're like, oh, that's bad scheme. And but I'm watching it. I'm just like, yeah, this, oh, yeah, I love it.

Oh, Michael Thomas is catching a now route. Like, you know, like prime like 2008 saints. Like this is great. And then, yeah, it's just disjointed at the end. And again, I like the defense, but then they're going against like Stroud. And Stroud has a couple good moments. And it's just, yeah, they just are one step behind they feel like, or at least they felt like today, like where they just couldn't put everything together. Stroud has sweet third down corner thrown.

Nico Collins, by the way. That was freaking awesome. Flat footed. Flat footed. That's watching him make those throws from a tight, from a foam booth where he doesn't even need to step up in the pocket is beautiful. And this is going to be a very strange observation. But watching his head move playing the position is beautiful.

Like watching him progress, he's just so quick in how he plays the position. It's just like, I'm one to two, I'm three. I'm one to two, I'm three. There was, I can't remember which throw it was. but it was it was a it was a over route I believed in Nico Collins yeah and he looks at it he looks at the flat looks back at the over and just hits it and just how quickly he's operating and playing the position six games into his career combined with some of the ball placement it is a joy to watch like that guy is going to be so good he's tidy everything's tidy with that's

very that's very good yes that's a very good very efficient mover thrower the ball zips off his I've never seen a spiral wobble with him. Everything's just a perfect spiral every single time. He's, he's great, man. He's like, we say it every week. I got,

I got going to the Thesaurus to look up new words, new cinnamon, synonyms for it because it's like, he's just a pleasure to watch. I just like watching that offense and I like watching him play quarterback because it's teaching tape. It's a lot of fun watching him play quarterback. It really is.

There's just something very aesthetically pleasing about their play action game. It's just, it looks so clean. His footwork is so nice. He plays on time. He plays in rhythm. And this is a Saints defense that, you know, it wasn't the best performance from the Texans offense today.

But having the handful of moments that they did against this Saints group is pretty impressive at this stage of the proceedings for a Texan's offense that's still finding itself, still a little bit banged up, all of those things. His interception, that was him, like, it's one of those where he's too smart for his own good. So it was Hank, which is curl flats, but they just dressed it up in a different way. and it gets covered too. And he just assumed he's like, no way the hook defender is going to be there. He's going to push to the flat.

I'm good. So he just throws it. And I get that. And that's why it goes right. Whenever you see one of those, it's like you didn't see them. It's like you're assuming. You're assuming that that asshole is not going to be there. So that's why I'm going to throw it.

But it was one of those where it's like, I appreciate. He was already like thinking the third step on that or like I'm already progressing there. No way that guy's going to be there. It's covered too. I'm good. But it's just one of those moments where it's like I kind of get what happened there. but keep, you know, you can't assume all the time. You got to progress outwards.

First interception all year, and they get the ball back because Zach Bonfumbles on that play. That's right. Another promising day for the Texans, another frustrating day for the Saints. So we'll see what the hell happens in that NFC South. We're going to wind this up with the Sunday Notebook. If you guys missed last week's show, this is how we're going to finish out our Sunday night shows. Now, just hit some of the other stuff that we watched today and some of the other stuff that we thought was notable. You wanted to talk about a moment.

and another game for Max Crosby, who has been having a fantastic season. Yeah, he is. Just playing every snap for the Raiders defense. It doesn't matter who's coming and going. He's out there, and he is volume and effectiveness and efficiency. He has 39 pressures overall this year, which is, you know, the three guys higher than him in pressure rate because he's fourth in pressure rate are Bryce off, Michael Parsons and Miles Garrett, which is a fantastic group.

Crosby has more tackles than all of them combined. all three of those guys combined. He has more. And he has more, he has the most TFL's run stuff to that whole group. He is a every down ass kicker. He's, he's playing, he played great last year, obviously, but he is playing amazing football. It's a loaded defensive player of the year race right now.

And he's like a worthy candidate. Like he's got to be up there for everybody because he is playing such good football. And the Raiders are doing what they do right now. It's their own way of winning. But they're in all these games. They're dragging everyone into fist fights, and it's working for them. And Max Crosby is kind of like the epitome of what they're doing right now.

I don't enjoy watching them. I just don't enjoy it. The amount of hospital balls that they have thrown cumulatively this year, Devante Adams gets the shit kicked out of him like four times a game. He goes to the tent every single game because he takes a massive shot over the middle of the field. I just, they're massacre in my boy. Like literally and figuratively, they're massacre in my boy. And I just don't, I didn't know what to make of them coming into the year. I still have absolutely no idea what to make of them.

And this game in general was so bizarre because you watch the Patriots play and it's just depressing. And we had this parade of the ghosts of Patriots quarterbacks past. You're watching Mac Jones, whatever Mac Jones is at this stage. We're watching Jimmy G play until Jimmy G gets hurt. And then Brian Hoyer's in the game. So watching this decrepit version of the Patriots offense as you watch all of these former Patriots quarterbacks kind of march on through this game, it was just a very surreal experience. And the Patriots just continue this downward slide.

And I don't know when it stops. Their offense at least look better today. Their offense looked functional today. They ran the ball efficiently. They had some explosive plays. It was watchable in a way that it hasn't been over the last really three or four weeks. And that's because they're not playing the defenses that they were. The Patriots coming into the season at the toughest slate of defensive opponents in the NFL.

And you felt that over the first five weeks. So today was a little bit better, but it's not enough of an improvement to make you feel good about where this is going. That's the same issues. It's like, okay, line a little bit and not a ton of juice with the pass catchers. And yeah, that's where it feels like with this offense. But you're right. Pretty much their best performance, at least since week one. Because even against the Eagles, I was like, okay, they're doing some stuff.

They got some created, they create some yards after catch. Okay. You know, Bill O'Brien's baseline. He's, you know, he's the Andy Dalton tier of play callers. But this did feel like a lot more real, at least, where it's not just like a laughing stock. And it would be an interesting game to rewatch a little bit because I do want to, I actually do want to see what the Raiders defense is doing. as far as coverage-wise and everything because I haven't checked them out too much this year.

But they're, I mean, they give the Chargers some issues. Like, so I don't know what they're doing. Yeah, they're doing some interesting stuff. They're doing something. I went back and I watched the whole Packer game.

And some of the disguises they were using to get to versions of cover two, like really did some stuff to Jordan Love. And it was out of character for them in that game. It was kind of a change up that I think they got them with a couple different times. I talked about on the show with Chase. But they're doing enough. I mean, that they're not a walkover defense in the way that they might be with the state

of their defensive personnel coming into the season. And I think that is at least promising and what that says about Patrick Graham. Also good that the Raiders remembered that they drafted Michael Mayer in the second round. And they're like, oh, yeah, got target you. And he's been great the last couple of weeks. And I said, Michael Mayer in October. It's just like his namesake, Michael Myers. He's rising up in October.

It's his month. Justin Fields dislocates his thumb, reportedly, according to Jay Glazer in a loss to the Vikings today. x-rays were negative, MRI coming. I mean, this is potentially a season-altering, franchise-altering sort of thing if he misses a huge chunk of time. Because the entire case as to why the Bears could even be relatively competitive this season is him taking a step forward, him being a dynamic force on offense, and that offense becoming an above-average unit at the very least, no matter what you thought of

their ceiling, them being a functional, real. NFL offense was going to keep them in games, that's not going to happen with Tyson Bejant. So if he misses a month and we're looking at week 10 or 11 by the time he comes back and the Bears are a one and nine sort of team, that changes everything about what's going to happen after this. And him being robbed of the chance to show that he is developing and he can't become that guy as a tough blow to stomach if you're him and if you're a certain sector of Bears fans. But we're very very very. We're potentially looking at that reality and staring it down if he misses a huge Dunker time this season.

It was interesting to see, I want to say the Red Zone channel because I have one of my screens on it. And I hear it's like, let's see what Tyra Bejit's doing. And if he can lead this Bears team, he's surprising so far in the throw they show. He's throwing like two yards behind the receiver on a screen, like almost duffed it into the ground. I was like, ah. The pick he threw, the pick down the field he threw was just horrific. Oh, yeah, that was bad. Yeah. No, but this is what, even when we went into the season, what was like, what could be success for the Bears is like having an answer, hopefully having a positive answer on the quarterback. And that's the thing is if he's not playing. I mean, it's a dislocated thumb on your throwing hand. That's, have you guys ever held a ball? Like just like, you can't, it's not your pinky. You know, you can't get it out of there. Like that is very important to how you're going to throw. So, I mean, a guy that needs as many reps as possible. And it's just like in a team that might be having a.

lot of draft capital and doesn't really have, you know, has some incentive to use that draft capital. It's the kind of like, the cards got dealt as in a weird, in the weirdest way after a week, 10 days after such a positive performance, you know, and it's just so crazy how that happens. And it's just like this just feels like a huge domino just falling for this franchise right now. And the Panthers continue to lose. So if the Panthers continue on this trajectory, who knows who they're going to be picking, thankfully maybe for Justin Fields's future in Chicago, there are enough bad teams to potentially keep them out of the last couple spots. The Patriots are doing it the best.

The Cardinals are doing it the best way. Frisky as hell. I wasn't even going to mention the Cardinals when I was talking about these teams. The teams I'm thinking of are the Patriots and the Broncos. Those are the two teams I keep coming back to. I still feel like the Broncos could be competent enough in the long run to be competitive to steal a couple more wins and get themselves out of there. I don't think they want that.

I think they probably understand that the best outcome for them, let's fire sale this thing, let's tear it down to the studs, let's win three games, and put ourselves in a position to have an off-ramp from this Russell Wilson deal. We talked about it. It's going to be $85 million in dead money

over the next couple years, but if your consolation prize that comes along with that is being able to draft one of these guys up at the top of the draft, then that isn't the worst possible outcome. And if you're the Patriots, you were supposed to be competitive this year, or that's what everyone was telling you they were going to try to do. If they end up stumbling into that timeline, this is potentially a nice reset moment for them to go get one of those guys.

So that's really the only thing keeping the Bears future from being crystal clear as to what they need to do moving forward is that some of these other teams might be bad enough to kind of knock them off their perch. I know the Patriots and the Broncos are kind of like life gives you lemons to make some draft pick lemonade. It's the Broncos one is because I mean the offense still feels like like still feels real like at least for the most part. So that's the thing too. And defense can realize. Exactly.

Defense you expect it. It's so volatile. They can just if even if they're like the 28th best defense in the league and not historically bad, the offense is playing well enough to get them a couple more wins. That's what I'm hoping for. That's what I'm hoping for right now. It's a timeline you're trying to manifest is just them winning a couple of games. But the Patriots wants hilarious because imagine like Belichick, it's like Mayor Williams. So go off into the sunset.

That would be just kind of just not fair to the world. I hate that because the idea of one of those guys playing with this set of Patriots weapons. Right. It disgusts me. So I don't want to see it for that specific reason. You can see. you can see the ball getting to a slow receiver faster. That might be it.

I'm defending Mac Jones more often than not now these days, but still, those guys are a different tier of the Mac Jones, which is what we do when he got drafted, by the way, which is what we always knew about Mac Jones as a prospect. Last thing we wanted to hit here, really fun to see the Rams click into a different version of themselves on offense in the second half of that game.

They were not moving the ball consistently in the first half, and they said, you know what? Fuck it. And they ran it down the Cardinals' throats in the second half of that game. 25 carries for 174 yards. In the second half, they average 0.31 EPA per rush. That would be better on a per play basis than Patrick Mahomes was last year in his MVP season. That's how efficient they were running the ball.

And this is encouraging because we've seen the flashes from the passing game. And I think that design-wise, they've done some really cool stuff this year. the Rams running game was their biggest problem over the last couple of seasons. Even when everything else was really clicking, they struggled to run the ball. And the fact that they can just kind of pivot to that in a moment like this is really nice to see. So another team that I think that they have enough when you look at the different versions of their offense that can exist to be competitive in what has become this muddy version of the NFC. I freaking love this Rams offense. Might be one of my favorites to watch in the league because the passing game concepts are just awesome.

Spread it out and rip it and some classic play action shot plays. It's vertical. And when you get a defense now, like what defense adjusting to what they're doing in the passing game, the Cardinals were like, okay, let's run cover two. Let's run some soft coverages. So the Rams are like, okay, we're just going to pound it. 14 successful runs on 24 design run plays in the second half. And this, again, you got to remember, this is no QB.

run element as part of this run package. It's a straight old school run game. And like you said, the motion stuff's great. Like they can run inside zone. You only can run inside zone against lighter boxes. So cover two or quarters or cover six boxes because of just the number count. And what the, what the Rams are doing, which is kind of funny is you can compare to what the Rams are doing with what the Falcons do sometimes with this run look, but the Falcons do it

with a fullback. And the Rams do it with Pooka Nakua, sprinting in motion. and then inserting on the back side on this inside zone run play because it's just how the angles are and everything. But it's funny to watch these two offenses get to the same type of play in different ways. But man, just the passing game's awesome. Stafford's ripping it all over the yard. Cooper Cups coming back. He looks 100%, which is awesome.

They're getting these good run looks. They can take advantage of it. They used to be the thing. Okay, we'll just run too high and they'll just average two yards of carry to Cam Acres. Cool. That's exactly right. That's fine. That's seven and eight yards of pop.

It's great stuff right now. And to see them be able to do that, and the defense is so much better than anyone could have anticipated coming into the year. So just looking at how they're competitive in the ways that they've been able to hang in some of these games is really encouraging sign. I think for just that offensive staff that I think really struggled to find answers last year. And the fact that they have so many more of them this season is definitely a good sign. So that is all we got. We will be back very often this week. So please come back and check out all the things that are.

available to you on the athletic football show, including Kiefer in the Beats, which will be coming out on Tuesday. Zach Kiefer talking to some of our wonderful beatwriters here at the athletic. Colton Pouncey, our Lions writer, and we're coming on to chat about the state of the lions, who are playing fantastic right now. Deshaun Reed, one of our Raiders writers, also coming on to the show and Jordan Roderick to talk about those Los Angeles Rams. So please come back and check that out. We will be back all week for now.

That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. The Athletic Football Show.