The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Week 6 recap: Statement wins for the Chiefs, Buccaneers and Seahawks

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Remember that wild time three weeks ago when there were some simmering concerns about the Chiefs? Safe to say those have been put to bed after their convincing win over the Lions on Sunday night. That's where Robert Mays, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman begin the Week 6 recap episode of The Athletic Football Show. The guys also discuss Buccaneers and Seahawks grabbing our attention, the disgusting Broncos-Jets game in London, Rico Dowdle's revenge on the Cowboys, the Colts and Cardinals giving us one of the day's most entertaining games, Drake Maye's latest heroics, and more.Rundown (timestamps are approximate)3:40 The Chiefs feel like they're back after convincing win over Lions13:45 Baker Mayfield and the Buccaneers have our attention30:08 Seahawks defense an absolute force in win over Jaguars40:18 Cardinals-Colts was the fun game of the day52:28 Broncos-Jets...WTF?!?1:04:00 The Packers and Rams are on notice1:07:43 Rico Dowdle's revenge game1:13:11 Drake Maye takes another step1:15:42 Justin Herbert and Ladd McConkey save the Chargers1:18:51 What Did We Learn in Week 6?Connect with The Athletic Football ShowX: https://x.com/TA_FootballShowIG: https://www.instagram.com/tafootballshowYT: https://www.youtube.com/@TAFootballShowTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@tafootballshowDiscord: http://discord.gg/theathleticfootballshowCall us: 847-448-0701Email us: [e-mail]: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Dave on Bluesky: @davehelman.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassFollow Dave on X: @davehelman_Theme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Week 6 is in the books. That's some fun moments from week six. We kick things off with a notable Sunday night football game. The Kansas City Chiefs looking like the Kansas City Chiefs of old and a big win over the Lions. Hits him, you have my attentions with Baker Mayfield,

potentially playing like the MVP with his banged up bucks team. Talked about why Colts Cardinals is one of the more exciting games of the weekend. And also dug into a monster performance from the Seattle Seahawks defense. at front as they terrorized Trevor Lawrence. We had one WTF game, and it was the all-time WTF game with the Jets Broncos London affair this morning. So we hit that from every angle, probably for too long, and then talked about some moments that made us romantic about football in week six, including the Rico Dotto revenge game,

Justin Herbert cashing it in for the Chargers, and a lot more from a fun week six slate. Me, Dave Hellman, Derek Klesson, let's get to it right now. That was a heck of a Sunday night football game and what was at times a bit of a sleepy week six in the NFL. There are some weeks, Dave, where we do not hit the Sunday night game. Obviously, when it's the Chiefs and the Lions, to big-time Super Bowl contenders,

one of our games of the week heading in. We're going to kick it off with a little discussion about a big-time Kansas City Chiefs victory tonight. Is it possible to make a statement when you've been to the last three Super Bowl? When you're two and three, yes. When you're two and three and it's been more than a calendar year, it feels like, since you looked like the Kansas City Chiefs that everybody got used to dominating. Because that's how I felt.

I mean, we've kind of seen it coming. And Derek talked about this last week. Like, there were elements of this that were there in Jacksonville on Monday night. Like, I don't think the chiefs, for the most part, looked bad in that loss. And you could see the elements of explosiveness and just kind of things coming together. and to put it all together against what we said on the preview show, we thought right now was the best team in the league coming in to kind of put them on it like that. And that's what they did, particularly in the second half.

If you can make a statement as an ongoing dynasty, that's what I feel like the chiefs did on Sunday. What do you think that statement sounds like, Derek? Like, if the chief said something to you tonight, what do you think they told you with the way that they played against the Lions? I mean, I would say two things. First of all, that was by far the best defensive performance they've had at the year. So this at least spoke to me that like, okay, if they need to, even if it's still an imperfect unit, they can still have games like this, which I think the formula for the chiefs in general is

going to be like, okay, it might not be a perfect defense, but we're going to get to January and we can play a game like this. Like, this two to me was like very good matchup football for their defense. Like they played a lot of base and you saw how well Leo Chanel played for a lot of this game, like really shutting down a lot of the lines run game, especially towards the second half I thought. So I thought that part of it said a lot to me. And I think what we've seen over the past two weeks. Mahomes is playing, I think the first couple of weeks, Robert, we talked about this on one of the hangover shows, I think. He was playing a little frantic, a little quick, like ball was coming out too fast, didn't feel very comfortable making as many plays outside of the pocket.

The past couple of weeks, he has been fully back in like, I am very clearly the best quarterback in the league mode being able to find stuff late in the down. Like, he just, he's playing a little bit clearer. And I think that's because he has some of his guys that he's comfortable throwing to know. I love this. I think those are the exact two things that I would land on if I was trying to articulate what feels scary and impressive about this chiefs win. First of all, I love them matching the physicality of the Lions, especially in the second half of this game. I mean, there was that one possession where the linebackers all made plays like back to back to back. Shannal made a play as the walk down onto the line of scrimand, like a one-yard gain on a running play. Drew

Strankle on the next play blows up a screen. And then they have to throw a third and 11 give up screen, the Lions do, and then they have to punt. So you watch that all happen. And then this is the game where Chris Jones really shows up. And I think that's also part of it. Like, we've talked so much about this. In order for the Chief's defense to be a championship caliber defense, when you think about how it's built, especially up front, it's a lot of twos.

Like, you need him to be a game-changing superstar type player, and he was. The Lions Young Guards have been excellent in the run game throughout this entire season, but they still have their moments in past protection. And each one of them had his slip up against Chris Jones today in high leverage moments. And so the physicality in the front seven, Chris Jones being that kind of game-changing player, I also thought we saw the potential plan for when they do play nickel down the stretch. We discussed this on the previous show. We did see Trent McDuffie going back inside because Noel Williams was playing outside.

And so I like that configuration of the secondary better for getting Chamari-Connor back-playing safety. So all that stuff on the defense was really. really encouraging. And Derek, I think that's exactly right on offense. They felt so out of sorts. It was that Giants game where it just feels like they're kind of scattered and all over the place. And it just doesn't feel like a team in control.

And it didn't even feel like a quarterback in control. And you watch what they did tonight. And there was that drive in the second half where it was a bunch of short completions, a bunch of RPO completions. And it just feels like in those moments and in those stretches, he has the game in the palm of his hand. And that's when this team feels really scary. and that's the version of the chiefs that we got tonight.

I think, again, this is like if they can, they don't even have to be five yards ahead of the six consistently. If they can just be like not in disaster mode and like do a little bit of the dinkin stuff stuff with their RPO's and like be in a good spot, that helps them a lot. I also think Travis Kelsey is actually like playing pretty well this year. Like I know we've done a lot of like, oh, during the regular season,

Travis Kelsey doesn't play his best ball. He looks a little slower. I really don't think that's the case right now. Like he's had a couple of drops and he had one in this game that's been frustrating. But otherwise I thought he's actually. been playing really well. That's, I think, given the offense a little bit of a rhythm, especially since after the Eagles game, I think all of that has really settled. And so I think they're just doing a really good job on that side of the ball. And then again, they actually have enough

speed on the offense when Worthy and Brown are out there to threaten some of this stuff and open up a lot of that space from Holmes to do what he can do. I thought they looked really, and this is kind of counter to what you typically want, but they were very, and we've talked about this in other games before too, but they were very horizontally scared. you know, like between Worthy, Hollywood, like they had guys going across the formation on, I think all three of their passing touchdowns where they're very good at that. They're very good at threatening horizontally in the red zone

when you're playing some man coverage. Absolutely. I mean, Mahomes only had, he only had one attempt 20 plus yards downfield in this game. And but they still looked incredibly explosive. I just, yeah, it looked so efficient. And Chris Collinsworth mentioned this toward the end of the broadcast too. This is how good they. they look a week before Rishi Rice comes back as well.

And what he can add to the offense is very impressive. It's very scary. I think it's worth just a little bit of context about what the Lions' defense looked like coming into this game. Obviously, all of the cornerback injuries. And honestly, to me, the most, the thing that's worth mentioning as it relates to that, that I think is most important,

is what it forced them to do defensively. Derek, I'm curious what your take about on this is. So the Lions really didn't play much man at all in this game. When they did play man, it was down like inside the 10-yard line in the red zone because they had to. But for the most part, they're sitting back in a lot of zone. And we talked coming into the week, the chiefs, when you challenge them, they can struggle. Like when you're giving him windows and when you're giving him Boyd's, he's the best quarterback in the world. These receivers, when you're really making it tough on them and playing in their hip pocket, they can run into some issues.

And I'm wondering, because they have all those corners out and you're sitting there with Amik Robertson and Rakia sin and you know, you're really digging into. the depth on the outside, are you a little bit more hesitant to play that man coverage and did that bleed into the way the Lions approach this game? Because it felt like it. It had to have, right? Like, this is a team that more than most in the NFL, like outside of Cleveland, really do want to challenge you in man coverage. And this is a team that we've talked about before. You can challenge in man coverage. Like, sure, Hollywood, Brown, and Xavier worthy are fast. But if you get hands on them, they really struggle in a lot of those areas. And so, you know, even in that Jaguars game, in the handful of instances that they played man coverage,

the Chiefs were not very successful, but the Lions were down to what, like, I think they said on the broadcast, they were down five of the six top cornerbacks that they came into the season with. Like, you just can't, you can't really play man coverage that way, especially when that's, you know, how you've tried to build this thing. So I understand them, they play a lot of base defense anyway, so that's probably what they were going to do in this game. But I understand them really wanting to lean into that, just hoping that we can stop them on the run and then get them into a couple of tough down in distances. Maybe we steal a sack. Maybe we get a strip sack. I mean, Aiden Hutchinson almost had the one.

Like, maybe that was their game plan. But this to me, like, I almost don't even really fault Detroit for what they did. This is just like when you're that banged up against the best quarterback of the generation, like I just don't really know what you do. You're doing anything you can to get by. And I think that's essentially what their game plan looked like. Looking at the numbers, I mean, the amount of base defense in this game and it came up a lot in the broadcast was absolutely ridiculous.

Per next gen, 74% of snaps for the Lions with three linebackers on the field. That's partially why you might be a little bit hesitant to play man coverage. you're putting those guys in pretty tough spots. They've been good and held up. We've talked about that. Those linebackers have played well. But when you're having to deal with Kelsey and some of those receiving options, it's a little bit different than maybe some of the other teams that they've played against.

So maybe that's pushing them that direction. On the other side, the Chiefs played it 50% of the time with their three linebackers on the field in part because of some of the heavy personnel that the Lions play. So this, I'm assuming, overall, we got 72 plays of base defense in this game from both teams combined. I'd be surprised over the rest of the season if we got one that got to that level. That's some turn of the century football. Really is.

2002, 1999 type football. Anything about the Lions, Derek, that you feel like is something lasting that we want to hit before we move on. I still think this is a really good team when they get healthier on defense. I still think they're going to be really dangerous. This is just one of those games

where you're personnel-wise, you're struggling on defense, you have a team that is really kind of rolling with what they're trying to do on offense, and you make one or two mistakes. And it feels like that touchdown turning into a field goal with the Jared Gough legal shift, the fourth and two that they don't end up getting. Like in a game like this, the margins are slim enough. Or even if you're playing well on offense, one or two mistakes might make the difference.

Yeah, I really did not feel any worse about the Lions for a game like this. Like this to me feels like a Chief's team that is waking up a little bit. And then again, you mentioned it like the Lions run game wasn't great. they had like maybe like a 40th percentile game for them where it's a little bit below their average they still have their moments but that's going to happen even against even against some of these defenses and so I think you have that a couple of those moments that you mentioned and so I just really I will say I think when they get forced into a little bit more dropback stuff later in the game they can struggle but even then you had a couple of drops right like Jameson Williams drops the one at

the end a monron Saint Brown has the drop that he normally catches so like just a few uncharacteristic mistakes that again they don't make like I think you could play this game 10 more times and they probably split it. All right. Let's get to some of the things that jumped out to us during a crowded week six. It is time for you have my attention. Gentlemen, you have my curiosity. Now you have my attention.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers throwing to I don't even know who by the end of the game. I do know who's. Tess Johnson, Cameron Johnson. We're on like our sixth right guard for this team at this point. Luke Hager got hurt at some point in this game. They win 30 to 19 over a equally banged up Niners team and we'll get into that. But Baker Mayfield has another standout performance with standout moments in what is becoming a season where he's really cementing himself as one of the better quarterbacks in the NFL.

Dave, six weeks into the season with the Bucks sitting at 5 and 1 considering how banged up they are. Baker Mayfield, you firmly have our attention. I mean, ironically, he makes you have my attention the week where the Bucks finally get to like kneel out the ball. Like they finally don't win at the buzzer. So it's funny that he makes it in their quote unquote least dramatic win. But what a season this guy's having, man. I said it last week.

And I don't have an MVP vote. And it's obviously way too early to care. But with what the bucks are doing, with how Baker Mayfield is playing, and with what they don't have. And I think it's worth bringing up. And, you know, we just talked about how banged up the lions are. And maybe if you're a Lions fan, you kind of want a mulligan just because of who you didn't have available.

I'm sure Niners fans feel that way about this game, but the Bucks are dealing with all the same stuff. Like, this team has been beat to hell all year long. It has not stopped this guy from playing hero whatsoever. And he does it again here. I mean, my soul left my body on that sequence where... That was my favorite play moment of the day. If you guys have not seen it on our social media, Scott, our social media producer is

a great job of having a camera going while we're watching these games. And Dave's reaction, he slammed his dad. desk in excitement after Baker Mayfield got that scramble. That was my favorite moment of week six, by far. He was dead to rights like two different times on that play. And the craziest part about it, I went back and watched this like, Tristan Worf's got beat on this play, which never happens. And Baker Mayfield still made them right.

I mean, what a play. And then one snap later, he hits Tess Johnson on the 45-yard deep ball. Just a phenomenal performance to quote the great Kevin Durant. A. Baker, you fucking. hooping. That's all that's all you can say. I mean, the guy is out of his mind right now. If there was any play, I really was upset that I missed watching with you guys. It was absolutely the Baker scramble knowing what Dave was going to do. It was my favorite play of the day. I will say, and this is, I don't want to take away from what Baker did again today.

And because I think that this is almost like, if not a lifetime achievement award, than a season long achievement award, this kind of download on where Baker may feel this, the Niners defense was a mess in this football game. And Baker's two passes came against like just discombobulated bad defense. We should mention Fred Warner goes down eight snaps into this game. It sounds like his season is over. Obviously, A, it's devastating. He's the best linebacker in the game. He's a future Hall of Famer, in my opinion. But like I said, the Bucks are dealing with all this stuff too. So I do think it mitigates it a little bit. I think it mitigates it a little bit. It's not even trying to take away from the overall team performance. That's not what.

what I'm trying to do. More about the individual moments in this game. When you're looking at some of the long completions that the bucks have, they're just total coverage bust. The Cam Johnson touchdown is a total coverage bust. There's so many chunk plays in this game where there's a motion or some sort of switch release and they just have guys running wide open because the Niners defense is completely out of sorts without the most important linebacker in football.

And I would say one of the most important defensive players in football, we got to a point by the end of this game, Derek, where who would you say? Diomador-Lonor is the answer. But outside of that, like, is there a Niners defender that you feel even decent about as like an above-average NFL player right now? It was no by the end of the day. It's probably no. Like, I like me some Renardo Green, but like as a firmly, can I say yes that this guy is

an above-average player? I'm not quite sure, even though I do like him quite a bit. Definitely good. Let's say that. That's the line. Definitively good. We're at like one guy. And again, it's not to diminish what the bucks have done.

But the Niners defense was in a tough, tough spot by the end of the game. When Fred Warner goes on IR this week, the Niners will have 15 Pro Bowls and 11 all pro selections sitting on their injured reserve. It's brutal. I don't know what else to say. And I mean, it's miraculous that they're four and two even after this game with what they've been dealing with. But it ain't going to get any easier.

And I think kind of to bring it back and again, to not diminish what the bucks have done, this isn't just about what he did today. Baker has been doing this all year with the team that was more banged up than this version of the Bucke's offense. He lost the receivers after Abuga goes down today. But just think about this team enduring and winning these games with

the version of the offensive line they had too early in the season. So I think Baker's status as arguably the most valuable player in the NFL this year, this is about what he's done over the last six weeks, even if today some of those throws were a little bit on the easier end of the spectrum. Right now, Baker Mayfield,

this season, per next gen stats, 0.23 EPA per dropback, which is in the top like seven among all quarterbacks in the league. And we run into these issues with that stat specifically. That stat is about the overall health of the passing game. It's not a quarterback specific stat. But Derek, when you look at the overall health of the passing game for that team this year, you have no Mike Evans for the last month. You have an offensive line that's absolutely in tatters.

A mecca is a good player and it is all well constructed. But Baker's doing a shitload of lifting here. He has 19 EPA generated on scrambles this season. 19. Only Josh Allen has more. This guy has been doing a Herculean job of carrying this offense as they've had to deal with everything happening around him. And you know what the honestly the most impressive part of today was the first quarter, he was bad. Like I thought we were going to get like frantic, oh no, kind of throwing the ball around Baker.

And I was like, oh, this is tough. He started the game three of seven in the first quarter. And then after that, I think only had two incompletions because. he did he started to do a much better job of like again the niners especially once fred warner was out i think it was a little bit easier to find some of those coverage lapses but he was doing a really good job and he did what he's done all year which is remain aggressive down the field like even very late into the games after he's had a couple of struggles and stuff and so obviously in this game they were more coverage bust rather than the like very well-schemed up stuff that they were hitting like against seattle

but his willingness and i to continue doing that and then on top of the scramble stuff like the fact that him and Josh Allen are in the same breath as scramblers is crazy when you look at what they are physically and what they can do at their absolute best. But he really is like his ability to know when to pull the rip court has gotten so much better. So I just really applaud the way that he's been playing when again, you mentioned the health of the ecosystem. It is literally not healthy. And so even if they have some good stuff and they've been, you know, Tristan Wurst is back and they've had some good players and stuff. It's just the fact that he is so consistently weathered this, even if there's been some ups and downs earlier this year, like, earlier in games.

The fact that he's consistently rallied and had this game, like he is, he's playing the best ball that he's ever played. And like part of it, he's downfield as good as anybody in the league right now. Like, again, some of them today were a little bit of the, Donald's still,

Donald still get the number one nod for me right now. Donald had it been dark. It's close. It's close. Donald's been crazy. They've both been insane. And so, that's why that game,

by the way, was like amazing, those two going back and forth. But like he, again, blown coverages today, but like he's been insane down the field. And so even, if the one to 15 yards stuff has been a little bit hit and miss at times, like he's down the

field on top of the scrambling. It's what we talked about with Jane Daniels last year, right? Where if you have the scrambling and you have the deep ball stuff, the floor and the ceiling of your offense is pretty darn high. So here's the difference to me. And obviously, who cares about the Jane Daniels Baker comparison? But I think it speaks to something that's really jumped out to me about Baker's play. You mentioned the feel he has about when to pull the rip cord and scrambling and understanding

when defenders are at his feet. And the feel he has and the sense he has for those moments is excellent. but it's not just when to scramble. The two big plays he hit today that really jumped out to me because I think this has been a consistent element of his game. The touchdown he throws to Tess Johnson,

he has to slide and reset in the pocket before he lets that ball go. And then he had another one on an inbreaker to Sterling Shepard where he had to do the exact same thing. So again, that is another element, another example of his feel for that space where these subtle slides left and right.

And there are some guys who will do that and they'll avoid a body and then check it down. He's doing that in order to continue pushing the ball down the field. And so when you combine that version of pocket feel with the pocket field that's leading to all these positive scrambles, you have a quarterback that's like fucking dangerous, man. I feel like I don't see Baker check it down.

I know that he does, but like anecdotally, he does it very often anymore. He's always looking to push the issue. It's incredible. Also, to tie back into your 19 EPA stat, I love this. I got it from my buddy. Greg Ommon. It's an incredible stat.

Baker's, the third and 14 scramble that we've talked about, it tied Jalen Hertz for the most first down rushes on third down by a quarterback. Jalen Hertz has gained 35 yards on his scrambles. Baker has gained 93 yards on his scrambles. Average yards to go in those situations. For Jalen Hertz, it's two and a half yards for Baker. It's 6.78. So like it's usually third and long when he's doing this stuff,

which is what makes it that much more amazing. It was third and 14. Yeah, today. I want a couple examples that I want to hit about what the Bucks defense did in this game because I also think they had a couple really encouraging moments. If this is going to be a team that we think could compete for the NFC, it's obviously going to have to come on both sides of the ball. And with their secondary also banged up, right, you're missing Zion McCollum in this game.

And they've had to deal with their injuries on that side of the ball. I thought they had some really nice moments. They fool Mac Jones on that first interception where he thinks it's single high. They're in cover two. Vildor sits in the flat. He throws it right to him. And then the guy that really jumped out to me today on that defense,

Vida Vita Valle was a monster pushing the pocket in this game. He splits a sack with Roberts in the first quarter and then walks Poonie back on a third and seven in the first quarter, just right back into the quarterback. And there was another pressure with like two minutes left in the second quarter where he pushes him, I think it might have been Poonie again, just walks him back into the quarterback.

Jamel Dean, who they really, having him back was big in this game. You could feel his impact in the game. He's in sticky man coverage on MVS. It's an incompletion. And then Levanti David has that strip sack in the fourth quarter or another really well-designed pressure. And so they did enough to get home

or affect the quarterback up front on four, five, six instances in this game, even when they were dealing with some secondary injuries as well. And in a close game, those moments end up becoming really, really important. Yeah, like they're going to give up a few big ones by nature of the way that they play defense. But as long as you get one or two back, that's all you need. Like literally they end the game last week against Seattle with like a really good pressure that that Bulls cooks up.

And then even in this game, they almost strip sack Mack Jones where the Niners have like one receiver tight to the formation to the left side. And so the cornerbacks manned up on him. He fires. And then they drop out both of the defensive tackles into the checkdown window. Mack has no idea where to go. And again, they almost strip sack him. obviously the Niners do the thing that they do and throw like a drift route right after that and convert anyway.

But like the fact that they can generate these plays is like, okay, if they can get four or five of them a game, they're in a good spot. Do we think Baker Mayfield is the MVP of the NFL six weeks into the year? The only reason I don't think it's like an emphatic yes is because I think there are actually some really deserving candidates outside of Baker Mayfield.

There absolutely are. I think what the bucks have overcome from an attrition standpoint is just incredibly impressive to me. Like I'll say it, I've said it a lot and I'll say it again and I don't care. Graham Barton was the left tackle when the season started.

That's ridiculous. And like I mean, we haven't even mentioned that Bucky Irving was out of this game. I'm kind of morbidly, like I don't make light of this, but I'm kind of convinced that the Bucks big three receivers

are just never going to play together. Oh, don't tell me that. Like it's one thing after another. Like it's, I mean, each of them has dealt with a different thing to this point in the season to where now even the rookies

dealing with a hamstring. I need it to happen, but it's just been a lot to overcome. So I know, look, Josh Allen is amazing. Patrick Mahomes is playing incredible football. He's the best quarterback in the world. Sam Darnold is ridiculous. But for the reasons that I've spelled out many times on the show, I just, I think Baker's body of work is the most impressive to me so far.

I think I'm okay with that at this point. I think Donald should be mentioned with the way that he's played. I think he's been so, so good for that offense. I think Drake May is probably. deserving of that. That's fair. And the way that Drake May has played, per next gen, Drake May leads the NFL in total EPA six weeks into the season

as a second year quarterback, playing with a much improved situation, but still not like an all-star cast of characters in New England. And so it's an unlikely collection of guys that are in the conversation to be the MVP of the league. And I don't think he's there because I think that their offense does a lot of heavy lifting. He has not dealt with the same sort of attrition

as a guy like Baker Mayfield, and I think his situation is much better than a guy like Drake May. But Daniel Jones has also put up ridiculous numbers. My bad, Daniel Jones, for not mentioning you because absolutely at this point. This, I will say is so funny because when is the last time that a quarterback or any player won the award and you weren't certain you would draft them as a top five quarterback? But like you list the six guys and like four of them, I don't think I would do that right now. No, probably not. And I think it just speaks to how strange the beginning of the season.

has been and also just where certain records are. Like, when we get to the end of the year, Patrick Mahomes will be in the conversation to be the MVP of the league if the chiefs are 11 and 6 or whatever they are. You know, it's just so far, it's been a little wonky because a lot of those superstar quarterbacks have either been hurt or their teams haven't been very successful. And so it's led to a very strange MVP conversation six weeks in. But I think Baker Mayfield absolutely is at the front of that conversation. Before we move on, let's take a quick break.

Let's get to our next one here. The Seattle Seahawks beat up the Jags offense in a 20 to 12 win today. Seven sacks for the Seahawks front, a 50% pressure rate for Seattle's defense per next-gen stats with a 14% blitz rate in this game. The Seattle Seahawks defense and notably the Seattle Seahawks Front Four, you very much have my attention. ESPN Research said coming out of this game that it's the most pressure facing by a quarterback since Patrick Mahomes

against Tennessee in 2022, I believe. Like you just, you don't see those sorts of numbers on a regular basis clearly. And we talked about, we previewed the Seahawks a couple weeks ago and we just talked about how many guys

they have available to them. Yeah, you did. You felt that all day. Yeah, you did. And they had them back. That was also part of it. Getting to Marcus Lawrence back is like,

you could feel his impact in the game. And so even if they're a little bit banged up on the back end, having most of their stable of guys, if not all of them, I think it was pretty much everybody you want to see play. Oh, Derek Hall. I think, yeah. Derek Hall was really the only guy, but that collection, Dave,

of Demarchus Lawrence and Cheninuosu, Leonard Williams, Boye Amafé, Byron Murphy, like you could feel all of those guys over the course of this game. It's hard to single out one guy when you get seven sacks. Having said that, Byron Murphy is a dog. I'm not saying anything groundbreaking. here, but I was so impressed by his performance in this game, just absolutely relentless.

Doubled by Jacksonville on more than a third of his pass rush snaps, still managed to produce seven pressures and two sacks. And from the detackle spot was just chasing Trevor Lawrence around all freaking day. Like just his motor was nonstop in this game. It was very impressive. That stat, I'm sure there are a lot of examples of this where it manifests this way. So Derek, I'm sure you noticed this while going back and rewatching some of the sacks. They were getting home in a very similar concept over and over and over again in this game where it was just like a simple T.E. stunt where the tackle is penetrating and then the defensive end is looping around. And the Jags, this double team that they were kind of de facto

creating on the tackle, that the offensive tackle was not coming off on the defensive tackle and he was actually the one that was either creating the initial pressure or getting the sack. And while watching them do that so often today, I think it speaks to just the stylistic win that the Seahawks had up front over and over and over again in this game. You pointed this out about the Jags. That's an undersized defensive line. That is not a big group of guys. And what the Seahawks did to them today,

it's just like bullying them the entire game. Like Nuwosu wins on like a little cross chop against Walker Little at some point in this game. But for the most part, they're just crushing the pocket throughout the entire day. And you just felt the physicality difference, Derek, between what the Seahawks are and what the Jags are up front.

That's what was so impressive to me is like, I think as a foundation, they really did a good job of just winning physically. I mean, the sack that was just up there on the board where Leonard Williams just malls, Walker Little. There's another blitz later in the game where it's a second and two, so they're trying to run Blitz,

not doing anything fancy with twist and stunts. And I think it was maybe Drake Thomas. It was Drake Thomas. Dude, fires over Walker Little and tosses him literally like if he didn't bump into another offensive lineman. He would have moved like six yards with how hard Drake Thomas through him and then he gets to the quarterback. So you've got them winning physically that way. There was another sack at some point in the game where they line up players in the A, B, and C gap.

And then they like kind of stunt them all over and the whole line shifts over. And M. and Wari, who was lined up, I believe in the C gap, just ends up free like nobody blocking them because they're in an empty formation and they don't have anybody in the backfield. So they did a really good job with stuff like that. And then again, you mentioned all the twists and stuff that they're doing. I think all of the best past rushing teams are just doing a really good job of knowing how to create that two-man side with our two best players and just using that as a twist. And that's not like a novel concept. It just feels like the best teams in the NFL are doing a really good job of that. So this was, again, you felt like the depth of Seattle's front. And then again, just a really, really good matchup for them in terms of we are guys who are more explosive and

powerful than you. And this is an offense that really wants to win kind of with a little bit more smoking mirrors, a little bit more scheme. And I think you even saw that in the way that Jacksonville was trying to call the game. It was a lot of quick stuff. It was a lot of boots. Even a lot of their runs went to the outside. They did not want to deal with Seattle between the tackles. So run that Leonard Williams sack again, because I think it's a really good example of what we're talking about here with the physicality. So he's lined up on the edge on this play. And it's about the physicality, Derek, and it's also about the flexibility. The fact that on this specific sack, Leonard Williams is on the edge

and then you have DeMarcus Lawrence as the three technique and Bois Maffei as the spinner over the center that's the other part of this is it's not just the depth it's the fact that the rolls for all of them can kind of be blurred and so they can all be lined up

at any given moment and that's what's so cool about this and so you talked about all of those kind of three-man overloads that they did where they're creating these one-on-ones and winning physically they're doing some cool simulated stuff you mentioned the Um-Nwari

unblock pressure they had like a sim pressure with a coffee house stunt with one of the linebackers at some point in this game. And so Mike McDonald was throwing the entire bag at Jacksonville from a pass rush perspective to make up, I think, for some of the injuries on the back end. So many injuries on the back end. So when you have all of these layers to the pass rush plan and you're just kicking ass for four quarters, you get a game where you finish with a 50% pressure rate in seven sacks.

It's funny because it was relatively early in this game that Jacksonville, they got Seattle, on the like the fake screen to Brian Thomas Jr. They were doing a bunch. They had a lot of free guys running down the field in this game because of miscommunication on the back end. And when they hit them for a touchdown, I was like, well, you're susceptible to that. But I hate to say they got away with it. But like you create that much pressure and you play that aggressively to compensate for

losses in the secondary. And yeah, you gave up a touchdown, but it did not bite them. Like it did not hinder their game plan. They were dominant despite it. And I found that to be very, I don't want to say surprising, but impressive. Because we talked about it when we were watching this game back. Like, Trevor had throws open to him. Like, there were plays to be made and he just couldn't do it.

I think that was an accuracy thing. And there were a couple moments, Derek, where he's got guys here. I mean, one of those sacks early in the game, he's got like a deep cornerout off play action. He just doesn't throw it. And so it was an uneven game from the Jacksonville quarterback. But I think that's compounded. by the performance that we got from Seattle's defense.

I think that's kind of the concerning thing with Jacksonville, right, is it was a little bit of everything. Your offensive line fell apart and got beat up. Trevor was not his best today. Like, he was inaccurate and sprayed a couple of those. Obviously, the one that you mentioned where he did not trigger on that. I also thought in general, they kind of struggled to find stuff over the middle of the field, which again, that's, I'm going to want to go back a little bit and watch what that looked

like on the All-22 and why they were struggling there. But even on some of the throws he tried to make over the middle, like there's one where BGJ slips out of his break. and then doesn't really run full speed to go get the ball. There was another one he drops over the middle of the field. So some of the stuff that has been plaguing them throughout the season and then far in a way the worst offensive line game that they've had all season. I saw some people in the chat asking what a coffee house stunt is.

Coffee house stunt is essentially a linebacker who's mugged up over like on the line of scrimmage. He essentially turns his back like he's dropping in order to influence the offensive line and then we'll blitz after doing that. And so you saw that I think it was from Ernest Jones at some point. game. I have never... I've never heard a good explanation for why it's called a coffee house. I have no idea why that's what it's called. I heard somebody say it's like when a server brings you your coffee and quickly turns around or like when you think the server in the

coffee shop is bringing you your coffee and they're actually not. None of the explanations are good, but defensive coordinators really love running them. It works often. Maybe it's just because we notice it because it's so cool looking when it does work. It is probably a little bit of selection bias, but it seems like it works more often. than it doesn't. So a massive win for the Seahawks. And again, it's nice to see this team win when their offense isn't playing very well. You know, the offense was one of 12 on third down, down to down. This had been such a consistent, explosive unit. And you had some of those moments today, right? You get the big JASN touchdown. You have a couple Cooper Cup moments in what has been sort of a slow season for

him because they haven't needed him very much. But to see them win a game ugly because their defense carried them kind of thought that's what they'd be coming into the season. And so the fact that they still have that gear even with being banged up on the back end. Nice to see this version of the Seahawk can still pull out a win against a Jacksonville team that have been playing pretty well. I also want to say this. And for most teams in the NFL, I don't give a damn about this. But if you've ever flown from Seattle, especially if you've ever flown from like Seattle

to Florida, you know that means something. The Mike McDonald's Seahawks are 10 and 1 on the road. Did you know that? No. They are 10 and one. Just think about like Seattle history and like what that home field is. has given teams over the last 15 years. But they are great on the road.

And like I said, a road trip from Seattle to Jacksonville is no joke, especially. I was my flight during my training camp tour this year. It was Seattle to the East Coast. It's been the last two years. It's not fun. It's not fun. And obviously going from a place like Seattle in the fall to Jacksonville, Florida,

and just kicking ass and taking names. Like I said, like traveling doesn't really move me much for most teams, but I'll make an exception for Seattle. Let's get to our last one here. and what was kind of a sleepy day. You know, even the games that were close in the early window weren't particularly intriguing matchups from a,

just a, what was on the line from a, how much was it stake in these games? I thought in a lot of ways, the end of Colts Cardinals was the most entertaining stretch of any game in the early window. We had like weird kind of like blow for blow type feel in that game. Like they even threw interceptions on back-to-back drives. Like it was just they had that sort of feel

to it. So Cardinals Colts and what was sort of a sleepy day in week six in the NFL, you guys both have my attention. This was a fun one. At the very least, and we know the, we know the Colts beat the Broncos dramatically. We know they could have beaten the Rams very easily, but their other games have been laughers. And so this is the NFL. We say that all the time. We even said in the preview show, Jacoby Brissette had the capacity to make this a game, feel very good about that. But to win a game where, you know, it looked like this might be another laugher early. Like they went right down the field early. Tyler Warren scores. I think it was the opening possession. And it looked like it could be another relatively easy win. And the Cardinals roared right back and you're trailing this game in the second half.

And certainly not going to be the most impressive game the Colts win this year. But to answer and get a win on a day where it hasn't been as easy as it has in a lot of your wins, that means. That means something to me. The offensive performance from the Cardinals today, I think there are three things that are worth pointing out about why it felt the way that it did. One, they're just using a ton of play action in this game, Derek, and letting Jacoby Percet, he's got a cannon. There's no, like, Jacoby Perci,

if you're going to let him sit back there and crow hop into play action throws, he can let that ball rip, and we saw that happen a bunch in this game. Overall, both teams were at like 45% play action rate, and the Cardinals were very good when they used it. The Colts obviously come into this game already with defensive back injuries. Kenny Morris hurt. And then Charverius Ward gets a concussion in warmups. And so some snap counts for Colts defensive backs in this game.

Jonathan Edwards, okay? Who wears number 35? That was the tip off of some of the numbers being worn by these DBs in the Colts game. Ugly numbers. 68 snaps for Jonathan Edwards in this game. And he had a couple rough moments. That third and 17 that the Cardinals had on their first drive. That comes against Jonathan Edwards.

There was a big crosser to Marvin Harrison Jr. That comes again to Jonathan Edwards. We also had, let me find it, Chris Lamens played 48 snaps in this game for the Colts. Okay, just throwing that out there. And then the other element of this for the Cardinals' offense, and this to me was maybe one of the biggest differences in the game. Jacoby Percette is very good if you're going to let him just rip play action shots from a clean pocket. Jacoby Perciate, not overly mobile. In this game, under pressure per next-gen stats,

Chcoe Irsat finishes six of 20. Daniel Jones finishes 9 of 9. And I think that difference probably goes a long way in the Colts ultimately winning this game. That absolutely goes a long way in the Colts finishing this game. And like that's the thing is like I think they hit on enough of their chunk plays. But it was a lot of them hunting for chunk plays off of this play action stuff. Like they won again. I thought they did a good job of just like calling as many deep crossages as possible.

Because it was like, all right, if you guys are on your fourth string DBs for a cornerback room. would Jermaine Pratt off the street at linebacker? Like let's attack that area of the field and let make those corners run all the way across. Yes, we're going to make people run numbers to numbers and see if you can run with them. And Jacoby Bressat, we know that he can make those throws if he's protected it all in the pocket. And so I thought they did a really good job there. I also, too, the interception he throws was like not really his fault. I want to give him a little like at least take the blame off of him for that.

They were trying to run like a little slant flat. The slant player, Zay Jones just kind of gets caught up and he ends up throwing it anyway, guys right behind him to pick it off. So I thought Jacoby Brissette played like a pretty respectable game in the way that you would hope Jacobi Brissette would. The other thing though on the other side, or at least that like to maybe take a little bit of credit away from Brissette, I felt like the Cardinals receivers made every contested catch possible. Like it absolutely did. In every way, like all of them. Like the crosser you mentioned to Marvin Harrison, he catches it like over Edwards is back like turning around, which is incredible.

Michael Wilson had two or three in this game. Like they just obviously, Tray McBride is going to do that every now and then like they just, those. guys caught everything. So I was pretty impressed by the skill players in this game. I'm not misremembering. Marv went out on that big catch. Like that was the catch that knocked him out of the game. I watched it back and I was like, holy shit, he held onto that?

No, it was a really impressive game across the board for a lot of the past catchers. On the other side, too. The Colts guys had their share moments as well. I thought, you know, Tyler Warren had the big chunk play early in the game on that little railroad off of play action. Josh Downs was cooking the middle of the spine of the defense defenders for the Cardinals in this game. He got Mac Wilson at one point on a little jerk route. They were really picking on Akeem Davis Gather with some of those middle of the field pass catchers.

He gets Buda Baker on the touchdown, which just his short area quickness when they really want to weaponize it within this offense is so damn good. But the guy who, to me, the two big catches that he made in this game, and I think if we're trying to pin down why the Colts offense feels different this year, Alec Pierce is so good. The one he catches twisting backwards on that inbreaker in traffic is an insane play. And then he catches a 22-yard chunk when they're down 3127 late in the game where he's taking it vertical and runs like a big speed in. And that version of Alec Pierce that's not just like a jump ball guy outside of the numbers where he's weaponizing that verticality to run some of these intercourse.

breaking routes and making those plays in traffic, he's just never really been that guy before. And so if he's going to be that and you combine that with everything else the Colts offense has, that's what really makes this such a fun group. And he missed some time, obviously, with a concussion this year. And you felt him back in this game, Derek. He is becoming to me something like, I think previously he was like a just run down the field, hope that we can get 50-50 guy. I think now he's becoming something similar to like Cortland Sutton.

Like when I think of Cortland Sutton, it's a lot of those. But he's got more juice than Cortland Sutton. At this stage in his career, that is probably true. And I think they're both really good contested guys. But like their best routes, Corlin Sutton's best route to me is running that dig route that that we've seen now. Pierce finally add to his game. And so that to me is where like a lot of that comes in. Like he, I think Daniel Jones, the way that he's playing is very willing to make throws to stand in the pocket make throws no matter what and just throw them into tight windows.

It's very like Tannahill-esque at his best. And so with him willing to make. A great comparison. With him willing to make those throws with Pierce catching it the way that he can. and then Tyler Warren being as fearless and flexible as he is as a pass catcher over the middle. Like he just, if those two guys can do that, downs can do it he can do. And then Pittman can just be your reliable. We got to get eight, 10 yards here.

Like they just kind of got a lot. And that's nothing to say of Jonathan Taylor playing like one of the best backs in the league again. This is the analogy that hit me today. It might fall flat with y'all. We'll see how it goes. Have you ever seen the videos on social of the people who organize their refrigerator with like the super, you know, like everything's labeled and all the containers. I wouldn't watch that clear.

Just make me feel really bad about myself. But you know what I'm talking about, right? And, like, they restocked their fridge and it's like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. That's what the Colts offense reminds me of. Like, each role is so clearly defined. I'm 100% with this. They're all good at it, too.

Like, I mean, every offense has, like, guys fill a role. But, like, they just, every week, they so consistently do what their role is laid out for them to do. I mean, you already outlined it all. I don't need to go over it, but like, if it's third down, it's going to be a Josh Downs play. If it's over the middle of the field, it's going to be a Michael Pittman play. JT. kind of ties the whole thing together. Like, they are so beautifully organized, even by like good NFL offense standards. They're also complimentary. Like, it's the way you build the past captain's perfectly complimentary. That was so excited about this group coming into the season and really have really liked them over the last couple years. And I think, Derek, what you said about

Daniel Jones and that willingness to push the ball into those windows and unlock everything, it's obviously not to this level because he's not this version of player, but it reminds me of what makes the Matthew Saford Pukunakua connection so dangerous is that you have one guy that is fearless over the middle of the field and you have one guy that's fearless and throwing over the middle of the field. And the Colts have shades of that with like the guys that they have in the way that Daniel Jones is playing. I love that you said that because I literally wrote in my notes today of Tyler Warren, that there's something Puka Nakua-esque about his just like complete, it's like he blacks out when he's over the middle of the field. And it's just like, I'm going to find the

ball no matter what this takes and no matter what it takes for me to get there. So, and obviously Alex Pierce has some of that and you show that in this game. And so there is a little bit of that like you, if you're going to make those throws, you need receivers to catch it. And if you're going to have those receivers, they're kind of wasted if you don't have a quarterback who's going to be willing to make those throws. So it's a pretty good. It's cool that they've both landed in this spot and are getting the most out of it. All of this being said, I think it's a defensive holder

pass interference on Lamens on that final play on Trey McBride. And if they call that, there's a very real chance that the Cardinals win this game. And so I wonder, are we at a place where what we saw from the Cardinals passing game?

And they got a couple third and 15 conversions in this game. And you mentioned some of the tight window throws and the Colts secondary is obviously banged up coming into this game. Are we at a place where we'd be more interesting? in the Cardinals' offense with Jacoby Percept

based on what we saw today? Or do we think that that is far too hasty? I'm not there. Like we... I tend to agree with you. Or at least I would like to see it against not that cult secondary first. Give you one or two more weeks.

That's where I land as well. I just wanted to pose the question because we talked about the Ewing theory thing coming out of the week. I'm just taking my win. The Ewing theory thing proved to be true this week. I'm just taking the win that I have right now. You're using the tight window example as they're just playing better because they're playing harder for

Jacoby percent. That's where you're sitting right now. At least for the time being, yeah. Like, I can't get ahead of myself here. All right, guys, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break. We can take this a bunch of different directions, whether it's the sack taking from the New York Jets, whether it is some of the in-game decision-making and situational choices made by the New York Jets, whether it's the Broncos nearly losing to the Jets in this game where they played the way that they did, Jets Broncos, everything about it and having to wake up and watch this game at 8.30 in the morning while I'm trying to enjoy my coffee and just settling into the day. What the fuck? So that was the thing for me. Like the- Oh, I even think about

your situation. Okay. So by the time, halftime rolls around. That is around like eight-ish a clock for me. So I'm still trying to get my bearings. This is a right around when the Jets have the ball in the two minute warning. They start moving the ball a little bit. Let's talk about it. You're already disoriented and then it gets worse. Yeah. And this was when I was like, what are I going to see in the second half if this is where we're starting? So the Jets get to fourth and one, a just short of midfield and they go for a fake punt to Breece Hall and they convert it. Cool. Sounds like we might go try to get some points on the board. Then they run the ball on first and 10 when they only have one time out left. Then on the next down, they have to go a little

fast. Justin Fields gets sacked. And then on the third down, I think they get it to a fourth and one again. And then they just don't run up to the line with like 20 seconds left to go and at least throw a Hail Mary and give yourself a shot. They just like let the clock go out. And Garrett Wilson walks off the field as that is happening. He's just discussing with the whole thing. My problem starts with the decision after they get it to fourth and one. They let 30 seconds tick off the clock before calling time out. So in that moment, you've decided if you're going to let that 30 seconds tick off the clock.

Or maybe you haven't cautiously decided this, but it seems like you're trending this way. You're trying to prevent the other team from scoring. I think that's all Aaron Glenn cared about. Sure. So if you're going to try to prevent the other team from scoring, you're going to run a fake punt from the minus 37 yard line or whatever it was in order to maintain possession to prevent the other team from scoring. What? And also, the fact that that was the mindset is crazy. And you're prepared to have a fourth and one, but then you're not prepared for the next fourth and one where you got to go fast without a timeout.

And like you don't have a play call ready or anything. Like the incongruency of everything in that like two minute span of football was mind boggling. Especially when if there was one thing I was hoping we were going to get out of the Aaron Glenn regime, it was like some of this stuff was going to have some better answers and be more buttoned up. And this was as far on the opposite end of the spectrum as it could have been. also being that determined to keep the Broncos from getting the ball back and putting it on your special teams to pick up the fourth down instead of

your hair. Just getting one yard. The fact that they were, and the Broncos sniffed out the fake punt immediately. Breece Hall, I'm not sure if he's their typical personal protector on the punt team. He was in the game. And so Derek Rizzy is just sitting there screaming that it's a fake punt from the sideline and they almost

didn't get it. You need one yard. You have a 230-pound running quarterback. We're not covering ourselves in glory with any part of this. Although I do just want to say it was a shit game, obviously. It's a memorably, this is one of the worst games I can remember since like the 2022 Broncos Colts game. You remember that one? Oh, that's an all-timer. This doesn't even start approaching that game.

This is one of the worst I can remember since then, at least. But what I was going to say is I, one of my favorite parts of the day was sharing this with the Discord chat. Please come join us on Sundays. I should have done football. I was suffering in silence by myself. Losing our minds at the insanity of everything. It's a right of passage. Like if you don't, if you can't get some enjoyment out of this type of stuff,

you don't, I don't think you deserve like the high fly and Baker versus Sam Darnold stuff. Like you got to be bought in for the good and the bad. Let's get to the Jets offense in this game. Do we have to? We have to talk about this because I do think that it speaks to where this team is. right now. So Justin Fields takes nine sacks in this game. And why I say, while I'm framing

it that way, is that I think some people are going to look at the nine sacks and they're going to be like, this Jets offensive line is a disaster, right? Like they're setting Justin Fields up to fail. I put this out there during the game and I wanted to re-up the stat after the game just to make sure that we got it all the way

through. Justin Fields had a 5.66 time to sack in this game. That would be the highest rate in the NFL over the course of the entire season. And at one point, I think like after six or seven sacks, it was at like 5.75 seconds. So yes, were there some protection issues for the Jets in this game? Undeniable. But Derek, when I watch the Jets offense today, this feels like a pairing to me of a quarterback who does not like the gray, right? He needs things to be very open. He does not play with a quick trigger. He does not play with anticipation. Some of that is the way that he sees the game and some of

that is just mechanically what he is as a thrower. So on multiple different levels, he's not somebody who's going to get the ball out into tight windows. You're playing with a group of receivers that probably is not going to create a lot of separation on their own against the defense where you're not going to have any real windows to throw the ball. And so it's just this cascading effect of all of these things converging at the same time to end up in a place where you take nine sacks

and look almost not functional on the offensive side of the ball whenever you're trying to throw. And like it could be not functional, but you could do something with it if he was quicker to just pull the, like what we talked about with Baker Mayfield, where he's very quick to pull the rip cord. Justin Fields has these games and has these stretches where he just doesn't want to do it,

which is insane because he's the best athlete on the field at almost any given point. But that's the difference, right? It's the difference between being a great athlete and having feel for that space and the timing of playing in the podcast. You can be the greatest athlete in the world. If you don't have feel for when you have to take off, then it gets completely negated. Exactly. Like he only ends up using like 70% of his athletic potential because he just doesn't know when to just say it's time to go.

And I don't know if part of that is like he's just trying to be determined to figure it out in the pocket or whatever it is. But like he at his best is a player who when he does just pull the rip cord quickly, you can at least start to move the ball a little bit and get some of these pop plays. but when he has games like this where he just gets really uncomfortable and starts doing the playing dance dance revolution in the pocket and doesn't want to actually get out, that's when you have the nine sack games and have problems like this. And there were a couple instances in this game

and one was like a PBU and then one was a sack. With one 10 left in the fourth quarter, or excuse me, with 156 left in the fourth quarter, they have a first in 10. He's got a quick outbreaker, I believe, to the right side. He just refuses to throw it. And it's not wide open, right? They're not wide open guys in this game

when you have the Jets pass catchers and the Jets passing game construction against the Broncos, but that's not what the NFL is. Like, you have to be able to make these plays with anticipation and with confidence into blurry windows if you're going to have any semblance of a chance, and he's just not capable of playing that way.

And if you're talking about the play I think you're talking about, like, if he just rips it when he sees it, it's probably, like, it's not a big gain, right? It's a five-yard gain and not a sack. It's a crucial part of the game. Yeah, and it winds up getting broken up because the DB had all day to wait on him to throw it. It's just, it's maddening to watch.

The last thing I want to talk about, the Broncos are not getting by Scott Free in this game, or in this conversation. Because in order, the fact that you won this game 13 to 11 with a Jets passing offense that could not function over the course of the game, here's my frustration with the Broncos. Sean Payton will say into any microphone that is put in front of him

that he thinks Bo Nix is this great quarterback, right? So why are the Broncos running the Malik Willis Packers offense from last year? This is my concern with this team. Why in every third down situation are we in these like trick-em-dick-dick-m moments where we got to run a bunch of screens and we don't let this guy who's supposedly so great play quarterback? Because it shot, it hurt them multiple different times in this game. And I just, there is a disconnect between what he's trying to sell us and how much they believe in the quarterback and what the passing game looks like in these high leverage moments, Derek.

It's incredibly frustrating. Like they call the offense, like they don't trust the quarterback to play quarterback. And it's pretty obvious, too. And it's like with Sean Payton, we have so much clear evidence that he will do this with other guys who aren't even Drew Breeze. Go back and watch some of the James Winston offenses, the Teddy Bridgewater offenses, like all those stuff. Like, they asked the quarterback to read stuff out, get under center, like kind of do everything.

They in a lot of these moments do not want Bo Nix to play quarterback and like really get back there and drop back. Like, again, this is part of why we've talked about before. Like, the offensive line is good at pass protecting. But part of why they're such a good pass protection unit is because a lot of the ways that they will call pass plays are either RPO's. It's screens. It's like immediate go balls where past pressure doesn't even have time to get there. It's play action.

We're sprinting him out. Like they're doing all these things to gamify the offense. But when he has to just drop back and go one to two to three and get to the backside, it's usually like one, one and a half. Oh, shit, what do I do next? And like he is a good enough athlete to sometimes make good on that. But it's, we're very clearly to a point where. And again, for year one, this was all fine, right? Rookie quarterback, there's going to be some growing pains.

You're going to have to learn stuff. Now that we're in year two of the same offense, like I would have expected him to be able to take more of a step mentally, but they clearly don't want to burden him with anything more. You look at some of the third down choices in this game, in the end of the third quarter. They have a third and forward nine minutes left. That was the one where he dirts it on that throw to McLaughlin in the right flat. They have a third and 10 with 156 left in the third quarter. They run it.

They can apprentice the ball on third and 10. It's not third and 18. It's third and 10. You don't trust your offense and your quarterback to try to make a play on third and 10. I mean, just so often they're not even giving him the opportunity to drop back in these moments. And I understand that you have your frustrations with Bo Nix, Derek. I think Bo Nix is a better quarterback than what the Broncos are asking him to do in these moments, even if he has limitations.

I know the end. I honestly think he might be. I think he's better than what this. He's played better than what this goal like. He is good enough to be asked to make a play on third and ten in an NFL game. Last year I felt like they were getting away with it. Because here's my thing. On a lot of these, I think this is why they're scared of it.

On a lot of those third and sevens, third and eights, whatever it is, higher probability that you're going to not be able to do whatever you want doing pass protection, he's going to get pressured. Even if he can make some of these throws beyond the sticks and make some of these throws down the field, I think when you crowd his space, he is one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. And that is not a problem.

We'll tell you that. It does bear out in the numbers over the last. He was one of five in this game. 22 games, however he's played. Yeah, like he just, it's been a consistent issue for him. And again, as a rookie, I could maybe give him some grace for that. And we'll see where it is by year two, year three. Six weeks into year two, it's just as bad as it was before.

And so that's, I think, why they have a lot of the issues. And you know what? Maybe there still is an argument that, like, they need to live with more of the volatility on third down because he will still make good place. He's a good scrambler. If the throw is there, he has the arm to make it. It's just, I, it feels like they're a little bit scared of some of the worst moments in those, in those spots.

They're too scared of it, in my opinion. That's where I land. I think they are too risk averse in those moments for a guy that they think and say is good. If we want to be generous, and I don't know how much I believe this, but if we want to be generous, could this be a situation where Sean Payton was that confident that Justin Fields' offense was not going to get the better of his defense and acted accordingly?

But they're in a position to win the game with two minutes left. To the detriment of his own offense. I mean, that is the best thing about this Denver team right now is the defense. And when Justin Fields is putting on a performance like this, maybe you adjust your play calling accordingly, but I don't think that holds muster, like under closer scrutiny. Yeah, I don't think you should ever be trying to win an NFL game by two points and hope the other team screws up when they have the ball at the end of the game

with the chance to win it, which is exactly what happened with the judge. They sure did, which before we get out of here, I do just want to point out, like, to put that on Justin Fields with what we had seen to this point is insane. To ask Justin Fields to pick up, what was it, fourth and eight? when, by the way, do you know Nick Folk hit his career long two weeks ago in that Monday night game?

Everyone's hitting their career long at some point this year. I mean, it's true. And with the way that the K-balls are this year, Nick Folk hit a 58-yard field goal against Miami on Monday night football two weeks ago. I know four yards is a lot, but you really think Justin Fields had a better shot of picking that up than a 61-yarder from Nick Folk.

just hoping Nick Folk can hit a kick that's three or four yards further. I thought that was bonkers by Aaron Glenn. I mean, ideally you'd like to think your quarterback can pull that off, but you had three hours of proof that Justin Fields was not going to do that. And you still sent him out there. I thought that was crazy. I also think that they're on the 46 yard line, right? With 156 left after a four-yard run from Brise Hall gives them their first down.

And they drop back and get sacked. Like, just hand the ball. Usually I wouldn't say that. Usually I would destroy a team for doing this. Just hand the ball off three times. In that situation, just hand the ball off three times and see if you can get three yards and set yourself up for a 60-yard field goal. They do not do that.

And ultimately, they lose the game. So again, whether it's, I don't think we should be surprised that there were some situational mistakes made by the Jets considering what happened during that two-minute drill. One more entry here in WTF, not a full entry. I want to just put a couple of these teams on notice based on the way that they play today and we're going to dig into these games more in-depth tomorrow on the hangover. Both the Rams and the Packers, you need to be better than what I saw from you today.

The Rams scored 17 points against the Ravens defense that made the Texans who could not move the ball for a month look like the greatest show on turf last week. And the Packers somehow are in a one-score game with Joe Flacco, who's been there for three days in Lambo and they have to make us like sweat it out near the end. So we will talk about both of these games and more depth tomorrow,

but both the Rams and the Packers after today, even if you won, I'm disappointed and you are on notice after the way that Sunday went. Semi WTF, not all the way, just semi. Yes. We're at WTH. What the hell? Packers and Rams after this game.

So we will dig into both of those more in the hangover tomorrow. But before we get out of here, let's talk about how we cannot be romantic about football from week six. I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty. I'm going to start this. How can you not be romantic about Rico Dowdle

after this week telling the Cowboys that they had to strap it up? And then afterwards, when he had 239 yards from scrimmage, and he was asked about it, all he said was they didn't strap it up. I absolutely love that. That is like, that's a mic drop moment from Rico Dato who had a phenomenal game today.

And beyond what Rico Dato, did, I was just so impressed by the entire operation for the Carolina Panthers running game today. It honestly reminded me, Derek, of the conversation we were having about the Cowboys offense after they played against the Jets. When they're missing all these offensive line starters, the Panthers come into this game, missing three of their starters along the offensive line. Taylor Moten doesn't play in this game. Austin Corbett, their starting center doesn't play in this game.

And Robert Hunt, their starting right guard does not play in this game. And I thought their backup offensive line, 60% backup offensive line, beat this shit out of the Cowboys front this entire day up front. And some of it, they struggle in pass protection sometimes. But when you get Iki Aquano and Damian Lewis double teaming people on the left side, it's pure carnage. But it wasn't just them. I think Cade Mays, who's the backup center for the Panthers, has been excellent on the ground for the last couple weeks. and Brady Christensen, their backup right guard, he's a really good mover,

he's a good athlete for somebody who's a little bit undersized. All of those guys had their moments. The tight ends were phenomenal blocking in this game. And then you combine that with Rico Doudal doing everything he could with every single carry is a 35-yard touchdown in the air. It was just a really impressive ass-kicking performance and just a we are going to push you around

and beat you up game from the Carolina Panthers. And beyond the Rico Dottle revenge game part of it, it's hard for me not to be romantic about that side of things. This wasn't everybody made it happen type of game. And this is even a little bit of like, how many times over the past couple years have we complained about the Dave Canales run game?

And I think we started to see it obviously get a little bit better and more varied this year. I thought in this game, they did a great job of, they would pull one guard and it would start to look like power, but they'd stretch him all the way out to the perimeter and just have him leading and go just murder the corner off the screen. And that will hit three or four huge plays off of that.

They had a toss to the left side early in the second quarter where You mentioned some of the tight ends doing a good job of blocking. Tederoa McMillan destroyed one of the DBs on that play. And I was like, okay, if you're a superstar like a first round receiver who's already a good pass catcher is doing that in the ground for you, everybody here is clearly bought in. And then obviously doubtle doing what he did just in terms of like really trying to run through people on every single snap. He just this was, I think we knew the Carolina Panthers run game was good. but these last two weeks, they have looked insane. There was an eight-yard gain.

It was a pitch, I believe, to the right side at some point earlier in the game. And there are these moments when you have these really good run-blocking tackles. Trent Williams does this a lot. Josh Simmons has actually done this a couple times this year. Well, they'll do this like a little snatch on the backside where they'll just dump somebody rather than trying to reach them. Like they'll use their momentum against them and just dump them face first into the ground. Kwano does that on this play.

And Cade Mays just does a phenomenal job where, he's reaching a one technique that's like a gap and a half over from him. And so to see all these guys chipping in in this way, I think it says a lot about the current state of the Dallas Cowboys offense, but I think it says just as much about the current run game infrastructure. Defense, excuse me, Dallas Cowboys defense. But it also says a lot about exactly what Derek is saying. This group was a little bit stale, a little bit simple,

a lot of inside zone from the gun last year. And so to see them really add some layers to this run game, even with some backup offensive linemen in the game and have a back in Rico Dado who can really make the most of it. He's a good player. It's really fun to watch it all come together. I want to make sure this doesn't go unsaid.

I don't think anything sexier happened in the NFL this week than the way Carolina ended this game. Like if you're a football coach, is there anything more arousing than getting the ball with six minutes to play and not giving it back? I mean, that is hard to do. Dallas had two timeouts and the two men.

warning. Dak was balling, by the way. Dak would belong firmly in that MVP shortlist if he had something resembling a defense. Very true. He is playing the best ball of his career. Hittickens just crushing it and not mattering. George Pickens went nuclear for the second time in three weeks and it didn't matter. Six minutes and seven seconds on the clock and you don't give it back because you're just mauling your opposition.

That's not supposed to happen in the NFL. It's just not. There was an 11-yarder for E.T.N with 146 left. It's a hilarious play if you guys want to go watch it. It's like a downhill, just like straight duo run. And E-TN essentially like hides behind Cade Mays and just runs behind him for 11 yards because the entire line of scrimmage is moving.

I can't, I remember anything like that in an NFL game, but I think that speaks to the physicality gap that we had with the Panthers' offense against the Cowboys defense today. All right, that was very run. romantic. I spent a lot of time on that. I'm sorry, but I was very worked up about it. Derek, what made you romantic about football in week six? I mean, mine is a little bit selfish. Mine is a little bit personally romantic. But like, I really think it's this is almost every other time a year one or year two quarterback starts having their moment. It's like the only thing

anyone wants to talk about. And Drake Bay is like top five in success rate and EPA per play and had this game today and it still feels like we're not all the way there. There are two sequences in this game that to me were just insane. Early on he has a third and nine where he has to step up a little bit and then throw this shallow route back across the left so they convert that on the next play. They getting into this like half roll play action shot to the right and he like whips it all the way back deep over to the left side of the field

to the Mario Douglas. So that's like you see all his pocket stuff and his ability to lift the floor of the offense on that third and nine and then you get the big explosive play. There's you get a similar sequence a little bit later. I think it was maybe two drives later where he's got to step up in the pocket and very late, like literally flips the ball out to Trayon Henderson on a little checkdown. Like not like throw the ball overhand, like flipped it out almost the way I think Mahomes did in one of these Sunday night attempts that he had. So he does that. And then very shortly after that throws a monster 25 yard touchdown down the scene where he's rolling out a little bit to his left down the seam to Kishon Booty.

And like, Booty obviously actually makes a really good catch on that play, which is another quiet part of this page. offense like booty is actually playing really well this season um but this was just like a for it to come together for this player in this way who's this talented it's it's it's incredible to watch him like really putting up numbers with all the big dogs in the league it's undeniable i mean he's playing about as well as like any quarterback in football right now again with the supporting cast that wall improved is still not a high quality group he's doing everything you could want him to do as a quarterback at this point i love that booty and uh pop douglas both went off in this game like two young draft picks.

Like to have, I mean, and Stefan Diggs has been great for them. And the one Diggs play got wiped off. Yeah, exactly. But to have, to have homegrown guys like growing with Drake May, I thought was really fun. But one thing I wanted to say, I went and watched the all 22 of the 53 yarder to Pop Douglas. And I'm all 22 zoomed out in general. That's the whole point. But between the very deep play fake and just the moon ball that Drake made through, the cameraman

is like panicking to zoom out to like get the whole play in frame and it was very enjoyable. Dave, what made you romantic about football in week six? Derek, I missed you at the end of the early window, man, because our desks in studio are next to each other. And you could not have laid out, you couldn't have been more right about the way that the dolphins could have won this game from the LA Charters. Like they got a couple big explosives. You get the A-chan long touchdown after the turnover.

You get the waddle catch. and it looked like Miami was going to steal this game with a minute to play and the Chargers are about to lose again and fall to 500 and the sky is falling. And then, you know, you got arguably just the most naturally talented thrower of the football slash athlete at quarterback. It was also 6.6 like 240. So there you go. With 34 seconds to play, the Chargers have the ball.

They are staring three and three in the face. second in 10, 34 seconds to play your own 41 yard line. Jalen Phillips is hanging off of Justin Herbert when he throws this ball to Ladd McCauch. Who's also an alien, by the way, in terms of like how big and strong is. Look at Jalen Phillips is.

To be able to shake off Jalen Phillips and to actually, and then Ladd McConkey looked more like the guy that we remember from his rookie year in this game just takes the shallow crosser, she just threw the brakes on Dante Trader Jr., which is not fair. he's a rookie playing early in the season.

Did you hear what Jim Harbaugh said about this play, by the way? He said he will remember this play until they throw dirt over him. Guys got away with words. That seems tame for Harbaugh. It sure is. But he was like, yeah, I'll have this play like imprinted on me until they throw dirt over me. And I mean, it's, Herbert's made a few of these ridiculous plays this year. But this, I don't think you can undersell how big this is.

Like with a minute to play to get yourself. back in position. Four and two, the Broncos already won. Obviously, the Chiefs got a big win on Sunday night. They are surging back. They look like they're not going to miss a beat. You lose this game. It's dramatic to say that it's all over, but how much better do you feel pulling this out of the fire and buying yourself from breathing room to hopefully get healthier? They had to have this game. It's against an AFC team, so tiebreakers are involved as well. Like when you're talking about losing conference games, they had to have this. And Herbert made a ridiculous play to make it happen. And it's very romantic.

I leave this game feeling pretty worried about the current state of the Chargers. How could you? We're very worried. The defense. To me, it's the defense. The fact that the Dolphins ran the ball with the efficiency they did in this game, they were explosive. They gave up so many explosive plays.

Like, I'm concerned about the Chargers overall, but absolutely. Hell of a lot better to be concerned at 4 and 2 than if you lose this game to a reeling dolphins team. Well, speaking of a reeling Dolphins team, think about the vibe shift with Jim Harbaugh coming out and saying he's going to remember that play until they throw dirt over him. And then Tuaang Waila comes out after the game and starts talking about players missing player-only meetings and wondering if we're going to have to start making that stuff mandatory. Slimest of margins between, man, we pulled out a game, we probably shouldn't have won.

And everybody's skipping shit. And I'm really pissed off about the current state of the locker room. So that's how thin those margins are in the NFL. Speaking of, let's talk about what we learned during week six. I think I've learned something today. I don't mean to be a downer, but I think what I learned about the NFL in week six is that sometimes Sundays just kind of suck, right?

Sometimes the slate is not what you want it to be. Sometimes you're really digging for exciting moments. And I think part of that is because the two games, two of the games that we really should have been excited about today, that would have been some of the marquee games of the day. Brady called one of them. Tom Brady called the game. The fact that Brady was on the Rams game, Rams Ravens is.

crazy. Tom Brady called a game where Cooper Rush got benched for Tyler Huntley. Like, that happened today. That was not supposed to be Rams Ravens. We were joking about it during the broadcast today and just during the day. The last time the Rams played the Ravens, we did like an entire episode of the athletic football show about why it was like a beautiful example of everything right about schematics in the NFL. And today we had to watch Cooper Rush get benched and we had to watch the Rams do whatever it is they did, missing kicks and again just punching themselves in the red zone like that was an ugly game and then the other one bengles packers when the schedule makers are making this thing at 325 on a sunday at lambo we're thinking we get joe burrow against jordan love this thing is going to be high flying and fun

and instead we watch joe flacco who was better than jake browning but still is not the type of game i think we all expected coming into the year and so i think we've been robbed of some games on this Sunday slate. We've been robbed of certain versions of these teams. And I think it kind of provides and produces the atmosphere we're talking about here where the bucks are suddenly really frisky and Baker Mayfield feels like the MVP and what can Seattle do in the NFC. So I think in the long term, the current state of the league and missing out on some of these higher profile teams we thought we'd have is going to be fun and interesting. But on a day like today, you kind of feel the absence a little bit. I think we've given the schedule makers a lot of credit.

over the first six weeks. And I mean, this isn't their fault. Like, this is football. That's why over the course of the summer, I get sick of hearing myself say so much stuff that we can't predict is going to happen. And it's not worth getting hung up on. But this is what you're talking about. I mean, yeah, your two tent pole games of each window were afterthoughts.

And if this is, if this is a bad Sunday, it's still pretty good, right? Like, we got, if this is as bad as it gets, we're doing pretty damn well overall. If this is a bad Sunday, it's still pretty good, but this is what I try to keep in my mind when I'm arguing with people in July where I'm like, the thing you're worked up about is not going to freaking matter when Joe Flacco gets traded to the Bengals and has to start against the Packers. Like all sorts of stuff happens and this Sunday suffered a little bit because of it, for sure. Even if this Sunday suffered a little bit, we've got two games coming up tomorrow and they're pretty good games. I have to watch the Chicago Bears play football, which we'll see how. I feel about that when it's all of sudden done. But we will be recapping both of those games live on this very YouTube

channel tomorrow night after they wrap up. Bill's Falcons, Bears Commanders, really looking forward to that. If you guys are watching this on YouTube, and if you haven't been checking out the shows on YouTube, encourage you to do so. We're playing highlights from a lot of the plays that we're discussing because the athletic has access to those now has really kind of changed the field. We've got some fun new graphics this year. So encourage you to check that out if you're interested.

We've got a lot of standalone YouTube content. I have a new series called Did You Notice that we're going to be doing every single week? Derek has some film stuff that he's doing consistently. So a lot of new fun stuff on the YouTube channel. Encourage you to like and subscribe here if you are watching. We'll be back on YouTube tomorrow night after the Monday Night Games for now. That's all we got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening.

We'll talk to you very soon.