The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Which offensive lineman has the highest ceiling in the 2026 NFL Draft class?

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Dane Brugler put out his full, seven-round mock for the 2026 NFL Draft, and it included eight offensive linemen going in the first round. That would push the record of nine set in 2024. In other words, it's a good year to need some help in the trenches. So who better than Brandon Thorn from Trench Warfare to dig into the offensive line class with Robert Mays and Dane Brugler? No one, we say. That's exactly what the three of them do on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Host: Robert MaysCo-Host: Dane BruglerExecutive Producer: Michael BellerSenior Producer: Katy DuffySocial Producer: Scott KrinchFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @RobertMaysFollow Dane on X: @DPBruglerTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Chatting offensive linemen today. Always a show that I look forward to every single year. We have our buddy Brandon Thorne from the Trench Warfare Substack coming on today to discuss all of the offensive lines superlatives and the categories that we've had for a couple other positions. His favorite offensive tackle, favorite interior offensive lineman. Best Day 2 Pick.

Also joining us, it's Dane Bruegler. It's a three-man show about the offensive line class. Really loved picking these guys' brains about, this group of players, I think a really interesting group of players and a group that I enjoyed watching maybe more than I expected to coming into this process. I think a lot to like about the potentially eight or nine offensive Wyman that could go in the first round of this year's draft. A little bit of housekeeping. Just want to remind everyone, we are now a week away from round one of the 2026 NFL draft. We'll be live on YouTube shortly before the draft begins.

me, Dane Bruegler, Bruce Feldman, Dave Helman, Derek Klassman, breaking down all 32 picks of the first round on Thursday night, and then we will be back on Friday, breaking down every pick of rounds two and three, one of my favorite things that we do on the athletic football show every single year. Thrilled to have Bruce back and part of our coverage for the second straight year. So please be on the lookout for all the details regarding that. For now, let's get to me, Dane Bruegler, and Brandon Thorne breaking down the 2026.

offensive line class right now. I've really been looking forward to this. I was sitting around all morning going over the rest of my notes, filling stuff out, looking at where Dane had guys in his latest seven-round mock. And I was like, I cannot wait to have this conversation because I think there is a ton to dig into with this offensive line class specifically. And that's what we're doing today. Mostly offensive tackles.

We're going to hit the interior guys a little bit here to help me work through what I find a very intriguing position group in the 2026 draft. First off, it is our guy, our head draft analyst at the athletic. Dan Bruegler. Dan, how you doing, man? I'm good. This is going to be a fun topic because this is an interesting offensive line class. And obviously, no better person to have this conversation with than our third guest here.

Also joining us today from the Trench Warfare Substack and a guy who does fantastic draft work over a Bleacher Report. It's our old friend Brandon Thorne. Brian, how you doing, man? Guys, I'm doing great. anytime I could be here with you guys talking O-Line and doing this show, it's a good day. So I'm excited to get into this. We're going to do superlatives again, a bunch of categories that we picked out, similar to what we've done for a couple other positions in the lead up to this draft cycle.

But before we dug into the categories, I kind of wanted to have somewhat of a big picture discussion about the offensive line class overall. Because as we are a week away from the draft now, which is kind of crazy to think about, I'm sure for Dane, it doesn't seem like it's crazy to think about. he's been doing this for like 11 months. But as we sit here a week away from the draft, Dan, you had your seven-round mock draft come out today, which is part of why I just said that.

You had eight offensive linemen in your first-round mock. And notably, that does not include Max Ahana Chor from Arizona State, who I think absolutely has a chance to sneak into the first round. And so there is a real possibility that we leave the first round at the 2026 NFL draft with nine offensive linemen drafted in the first round. that has only happened one other time since 2000 that was in 2024 when we got joe alt jaythelaythasthanu fashanu

fuwaga amarius mims trofetanu jordan morgan grand barton and tower guyton all in the first round there's some similarities to that class i think if you look at this group and just in terms of like archetypes and where guys are going to go that might be we're talking about but it's only happened once and then there were eight a couple other times including the 2008 draft which is a fascinating draft get Dwayne Brown and Sam Baker in the 20s in that draft. The Bears of Chris Williams at 14, Jeff Otta. Of course, the Bears are one of the two teams that didn't draft a workable player among all those tackles,

which is very indicative of where they were. Chris Williams at 14 from Vanderbilt. But it just doesn't happen very often. And so we've talked a lot, Dane, about how this is a unique draft when it comes to the positions that are going to be available at the top. And the fact that we might have nine offensive linemen

drafted in the first round, that is a premium position. that there might be a lot of volume associated with among this group. But we were talking a little bit about this before we started recording. You still struggle to get all the way there with this offensive line class, even if a lot of these guys presumably are going to go in the first round. And for different reasons, right? With each offensive linemen, there's just something about their profile that maybe is,

I really like them, but there's something keeping me from going all in on why this player is absolutely going to hit, or why he's going to be this level of player in the NFL. It just seems like there is volatility. There's a lot of like there's not a fork in the road. There's just like 10 different ways this could play out. Part of it will depend on where they go and what position they play. Once they go to that team, do they change positions at some point during that rookie contract?

Like there's a lot of those types of guys. And it's just it's a really interesting group. And I don't think that there's a set order in terms of who, who's the first offensive lineman drafted going to be, who's going to be the third? Who's going to be, you know, if we do have eight or nine drafted in the first round, who's that ninth going to be? I think there's debate there about how it's going to play out. And talking to teams about these guys, it's the same thing because you talk to one team,

oh, this guy's a guard for us on our board. You talk to another team, no, he's a tackle. So I think all that conjecture that we're going to be talking about these guys, that's what teams are talking about too. I'm curious, Brandon, your experience watching these guys and how much enthusiasm you had for them as a group when you're just digging into the tape because I'll just go through my very truncated experience

that is very different than what you guys do. Watching them over the last couple weeks, and again, just sort of the narrative around this draft class overall, I watched this group of eight, nine, ten guys when you include some of the interior players and I liked them more than I thought I would. Like, I had more enthusiasm and excitement around this group and what they could be that I might have expected

considering how this offensive line class and even this draft had been painted in the lead up to the process. I think in a lot of ways I expected to walk away from this the way I walked away from the edge group where I was like, ah, this is a weird collection of players. Even if we get a decent amount of them in the first round or in the first 50 picks, I don't know how many like true difference makers come away from that. I felt better about the offensive tackle group than I did about the edge group. And so I liked this group more than I thought.

And so I think it just surprised me a little bit. So when you went through the whole process with these nine, ten guys and just this offensive line group overall, what was your experience when you think about this collection of players holistically? Yeah, I mean, the way I look at the class is there's a lot of incomplete players in the class. There's not really a blue chip tackle, in my opinion, in this class, you know, that's ready to come in and be an impact player right away. And, you know, there's a variety of these guys that could potentially play inside as well. So to me, you know, I struggled to get a first round grade, you know, like a true first

round grade. I do have a couple here. But, yeah, it's just, you know, it comes down to the value part of it and how high these guys, you know, are going to go. And I guess when you look at the class realistically, all positions, it makes sense that a premium position would be pushed up the board as it typically is. So I understand it, but it still makes me a little uncomfortable with this class because, you know, especially going back over the last couple weeks and finishing tape of a lot of these top guys, like their whole seasons and stuff

like that. I just honestly, I feel like you feel more so like with the edge class than not, in my opinion. So that's kind of how I feel about the class. I like the guard class, especially if some of these tackles kick inside, but tackle-wise, it's a little overwhelming, in my opinion. A lot of projection involved. I think there's a lot to dig into there. I'll say two things. One, this is just me showing my age and just getting softer and trying to be more optimistic as I get older, where I watch the guys and I'm like, I see how it could work out. Like, I believe in him, if it all,

if it all, like, comes together. There are a lot of players like this in this group where I think this is just me softening as I get a little bit deeper into my life. the other part of that, and you said this, and I think this is a really key distinction with this tackle group specifically in a lot of these other drafts where we see seven, eight, nine offensive linemen drafted in the first round.

Almost all of those groups come with like a true blue chip player that was drafted in the top 10 or two of them. The weirdest group is the 2016 class where Laramie Tunsell was actually that player but he was drafted third among the tackles. This group almost reminds me a little bit

of that 2016 group, if you just remove Laramie Tunsell from it, where like Maui Noah and Ronnie Stanley, Jack Conklin was the eighth overall pick, and we were kind of like back and forth about whether that was too high to draft Jack Conklin. Taylor Decker was the 16th pick, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but there are probably some ceiling questions

about what Taylor Decker would be in the pros as somebody who was drafted in the teens. You had one interior offensive lineman go in the top 20. That was Ryan Kelly. And then you had a Fetty who was like kind of project ego, at 31. And so there are like archetypally some similar box is checked with this group as there were with that one. But even that group had Laramie Tunsell. In 08, we had Jake Long. In 2013, we had three tackles drafted in the top four. And they're just in, and then in 24, we had

all drafted at five. There aren't, there isn't that sort of player in this group. So there's the volume, but it's weighed down in terms of the median quality because we don't have those true upper echelon prospects dane is part of that equation whenever I'm asked about this offensive tackle class I think I've started every conversation with there's no joe all in this class no archiotype of that prototypical left tackle that ideally a team like the browns picking at six

that's what they want at that point in the draft this draft just doesn't have that guy and which along the lines of what brandon was saying how it feels incomplete all of these tackles It just feels like there's a part of their profile that's just missing that gives you a little bit of trepidation about them. And, you know, it's interesting. You mentioned a couple years ago, like Troy Fonautano, like he reminds me a little bit of Spencer Fano and just a guy that I watch him. My eyes like what I see.

But is he a tackle? Can he stay outside? Do we have to move inside? There's a lot of debate there from team to team and scheme to scheme and coach to coach. but yeah i think it's really especially when you put it you frame it like that just comparing it to other tackle classes it makes uh it shines a light on just how unique this group is i think fatano is a good name to bring up there because it just reminds me of how shifted back all of this feels i think a lot of people have compared francis maui noa

tlis toulis flago in the process well tis flago was the fourth tackle drafted in that draft right the third tackle drafted in that draft and he was the 11th pick and we're talking about maui noa three, Fatano was the 20-something pick, and we're talking about Fano at 11. And so these are similar types of prospects that are being pushed up 10 spots further in the draft brand, and then they might be in a typical class, which I think speaks to not only the quality of the offensive linemen, but the quality of the class overall. Yeah, that hits the nail on the head for me, just because if we were talking about some of these guys like Fano and Maui, Noah, no, a little bit later, then I'd be more comfortable

with their profile and their projection. but yeah, once you get into the top 10 territory and you're expecting like, you know, quickly for a guy to be pro bowler, all pro kind of caliber guy, I just I just don't see that in this class. And like even going back to the class you mentioned with Tunsell, like, I mean, Ronnie Stanley to me is better than all these guys like coming out. Just he was so polished. And then Ryan Kelly was a blue chip center, which we don't have in this class either. So do you think Iona in terms of an interior offensive lineman is in a similar tier of players like a Ryan Kelly would be, though, coming into the. the draft? Probably. I didn't do like Ryan Kelly in conjunction with the whole class and all that type stuff back then, but I remember Kelly was just prototypical, you know, size and profile

accomplishments, all that type stuff. Yeah. I mean, Vanga to me is, you know, just a spoiler. Like, he's to me, the most complete offensive lineman in the draft by a hair over a couple of these other names we already talked about. But to me, Vanga's the guy who I look at who I could poke the least amount of holes in and expect him to deliver the quickest impact regardless of situation. So that's, yeah, that would be the guy for me in this class. Fuego is the fourth offensive tackle draft. And I'm looking back at my notes right now. But all right, let's not spoil any more of the categories and let's just get into them.

And let's start with for the third time we've done this, just a very simple question because there's debate at the top of this. Dane, who is the number one offensive tackle in the 2026 draft based on what you've done and the rankings that you have. Yeah, and I don't, I guess we could put the offensive tackle and air quotes. For a lot of these guys, yes. For me, it's Spencer Fano from Utah. And he came in with plenty of buzz in terms of came into the season.

Like going back in, you know, August and studying these guys over the summer, teams are really high on him. And I thought he had a fine year. It wasn't a dominant year. I don't think he took this massive jump in terms of his development, but I thought it was just kind of steady. What he showed last year, he built off of it a little bit. But he didn't separate himself as clearly a top 10 pick, clearly the top offensive linemen in the draft.

Now, I still see him that way, but I think part of that is how good I feel about him moving forward and how there's still trajectory there, still ascension. He's in terms of footwork, in terms of athleticism, he's off the charts. He, his movement skills are fantastic. He was the buzz coming out of the combine from talking to scouts that were in the stands, watching him. Monroe Freeling's 40-yard dash got a lot of hype and some other things,

but they were talking about Spencer Fano and the movement skills. And interesting enough, they also had him snapping and doing center drills and, you know, because they want to see him do these other things. And I think that's part of this conversation as well is the perceived versatility with Fano. Some teams have him on the edges as a tackle. Other teams have him on the board as a guard. And his arms grew a little bit between the combine and the pro day. So he's closer to that 33 number that you want for a tackle. But I'm also encouraged by the fact that his wingspan is three inches longer than Will Campbell's was a year ago. And so the wingspan, I think, kind of you check that box. When Utah needed a yard, they ran behind number 55.

and he's not the most, like he's not Vanga Yawane in terms of this bulldozer at the point of attack in the run game, but he is somebody that with his movement skills and just the way he moves, he's going, wherever he's going, wherever he's going to get there on time and he's going to be able to execute and do his job. And so there's just enough about Fano that I think separates him as my top offense alignment, but by no means do I think it's a runaway. Fano for me is the guy that I would give an edge to for OT1 as well, barely over Francis Maui, Noah, who I honestly see better inside. But same thing with Fonu. Like, I just think he's a guy who I could see being, I project being solid as a rookie at any of the five positions.

So I'm not dead set on him playing tackle. I think he could and be, you know, at the level of maybe like a Zach Tom or like a Roger Rosengarten kind of right tackle in the league. or, you know, he could take the Graham Barton or Mitch Morse route and project inside the center. I think those two kind of pathways for him, I think, would lend themselves to probably the same caliber of player who, you know, would be a solid player. But, you know, like Dane said, the things that are appealing about him is athletic ability. I think that's where you have to start and just movement skills. He's very rangy and fluid. And I think once he gets latched on blocks, he sustains well, and he recovers well.

and I love the competitive toughness and the effort and the strain and finishing and all that type of stuff that he brings. So, you know, I think the movement skills and then the balance and the ability to protect his edges and actually recover is really impressive. It's just by questions with him, his play strength. I think he is just a little kind of like a slightly built guy in some ways and he doesn't really command, you know, the point of attack. and I think that that could be exposed a little bit more in the NFL, depending on the situation, of course. But yeah, and I also think the jump in terms of what he's asked to do likely will be significant for him because when you look at Utah scheme

and you watch them, they're, of course, a very run-heavy scheme. They ran the ball more than anybody in the Big 12. And they also played a lot of 12, 13 personnel, 6 offensive linemen. He just was, the line of scrimmage was packed, you know, when you watch Utah. And there are some instances, you know, where that everybody looks at against David Bailey and some of these guys where you see him one on one. But it's kind of few and far between when you stack his entire season of film. I mean, they're in heavy personnel often and running the ball like 65% of the time or whatever. That's probably not going to be the case in the NFL.

So, yeah, I mean, it's, I like him, but, you know, and I give him the edge over Maui Noah, but I just, I expect more solid. than like difference maker. Brandon, to your point, like, there just, there aren't many offensive tackles currently in the league who just have that body structure. They don't look like him. They just don't look like him. It's so strange to think about. David Bakhtiari is one that comes in mind where it's a little.

Exactly. And Bakhtiari wasn't a good tester and he didn't have the size. And so it wasn't a mystery why he was in a fourth round player. but with Fano, obviously we're talking about him as a top 20 guy. And yeah, it is interesting when you look at it through that lens where it doesn't really look exactly like ideally you want it to look. You like the results, you like the player, but there's some risk involved here. So looking at the numbers, as Brandon was talking about,

95 true past sets all year for Spencer Fano last season per PFF. that is 233rd of 256 power four offensive tackles who played at least 50% of their team SNAPs. So what is asked of him and what was asked of Caleb Lomu, which is going to be very different in the NFL, even if they end up in the right scheme compared to what it looked like in college. And Dane, I'm curious, you're talking about how you didn't necessarily see the dominance from Fano that last year that you might have expected, given the expectations coming in? With the guy that has his physical profile, was that ever going to have?

happen. Was he ever going to reach that level of dominance that you would want just based on how he's built? Because you look at the way that he moves and like it feels like he checks all of those boxes. And I talked about this the first time we talked about. I'm like, I'm enamored by what he looks like out there in terms of the movement skills and just so many different things that he's doing. And the balance is just remarkable. Like how often he's on his feet and how he can stay on his feet. And so so many of those things are about as good as you can. expect and maybe you want to see more dominance but for a player like this like Brandon

said that may have some play strength concerns just based on how he's built were we ever going to see that and if the answer is no how does that play in to the evaluation the projection moving forward yeah I think that's fair because he's you know he's a narrow

shouldered you know narrow hip type of body type and you know he was never and he's not the longest player obviously and so against longer defensive line, and there's only so much you can do. I did, I guess I expected the

core, the anchor strength to be a little bit better this year as he continued just to grow. I mean, it's always tough when you watch a freshman or a sophomore. And just how much development, physical, mental, technical, how much to development to expect.

And some guys kind of let you know, hey, I'm at my ceiling or I'm kind of hitting my head on the ceiling. I'm getting close. Other guys tease that ceiling or tease the ability to get better and hey, I've still got a ways to go. And so Fano, I think there

was hope that there would be more of a ceiling to go to and I'm still hopeful for that. It's just we didn't necessarily see it consistently on the 2025 tape. And you said that Francis Maui No was right there with you with Spencer Fano as your favorite offensive tackle in this class, but you see him

maybe projecting a little bit better at guard. Let's just talk about Maui No as an idea first and kind of what he's bringing to the table. So Maui Noah is 11th on Dane's top 100. Spencer Fano was eighth. You had him, Dane, going three, though, and you were a latest seven round mock, Francis Maui Noah, to the Arizona Cardinals.

And that is ahead of where Spencer Fano was going. You had him at 11 to the Miami Dolphins. So let's talk about that first, Dan. Like, why Maui Noah at three to Arizona, even if you, in particular, you personally had Fano higher in your top 100? I just think there's mixed opinions on who the top offensive tackle is. And so just the colonels aren't going to tell me what they're doing,

but I'm going to listen to other teams who are telling me what they think the colonels are going to do. And so that's just kind of a hint at how I do a mock draft, basically. And with now we know, like I'm 100% in agreement. Like his best position is I think there's a very good chance is going to be inside at guard. I think there are several teams that are looking at it like, okay, we're going to let him fail outside. Because you watch his tape. And there's nothing about his tape that says, oh, yeah, he needs to move inside. I mean, I think you can look at the range and look at how it's going to get more difficult against NFL rushers and say, yeah, this might not work.

But he's a 330-pound guy, you know, just the way he's built, the skill set, how seamless it should be if he did move inside. but I think when you look at Arizona and if they do go right tackle because we know that's a need Maui Noah I think does make sense for specifically what they could be looking for you look at the way that Maui Noah is built and he's got that wide frame to him

almost reminds me a little bit when I watched Kelvin Banks last year where I was like I think he can play tackle but like you watch how you just look how he's built I could see him playing guard and watching Maui Noah from behind and you just see how that lower half is built I had a similar thought and it's funny Dane that you think that his best position is guard, because I wanted to ask you guys, if you had to pick one of these players where I'm taking him and he has to be a tackle for me in week one, and who would

make you sleep easiest? I think among all these guys, Francis Maui knows probably my answer, and I think we can all acknowledge he might be a better guard. And that just speaks to me about like the quality and the group that we're talking about here a little bit, Brandon. Yeah, and I think if I was to build that case, it would start with his play strength. This is the opposite of Spencer Fano. You know, he can hold the point of attack and take ground when he needs to. And he, you know, that's what you're getting with him. He's extremely densely built.

I believe the play strength will translate. To me on film, especially body typewise, he looks a lot like germane Illuminaure. And that to me is who he would project as a right tackle. He's just a stronger version, I think. So a little bit better. but like that's the kind of right tackle I think you would probably get with Maui Noah and then if you're projecting him inside I just think the ceiling is you know it goes up from there so but yeah I mean that's that's the thing yeah it's it's the play strength you know and that's what he brings he's also just a really good run blocker in terms of his feel um you know he's he's polished in the run game for sure in a lot of respects so like the earliest I could get really excited about him would be like 13. of the Rams, you know, because, you know, they're running duo. They're running downhill, him next to Dodson. I mean, that would be, that'd be fun. And he'd get a lot of protection in pass pro,

of course, you know, as the Rams do. They're really good at doing that. So like, that's to me where I could start to get excited. But yeah, top five, top three, top 10 as a tackle. You know, I just think the range, like Dane hinted at, the athletic ability, the ability to redirect and protect moves across his face, especially if he's playing on an island and stuff like that. I just don't see him, you know, being very strong in that area. So, yeah, it's more of, again, just like a solid, you know, right tackle, especially in the right system.

And then at guard, he could just fit in better in more schemes across the NFL, in my opinion. The grip strength when you watch him is just so apparent. And he has these massive hands. He has the 85th percentile hands. and when you watch him, like, that absolutely shows up. There are a couple double teams. I think it was in the Indiana game. I was watching where you see like the hip-to-hip, like just double-team movement with the

guard. And it's like, all right, I can understand like this guy as a run blocker in that sort of scheme what the appeal would be to a guy like Francis Maui Noah. All right, before we move on, let's take our first quick break. All right, so those are the guys that I think a lot of people in Fano and Maui-No that are likely going to go in the top half of the first round. Let's move our attention back to potentially the back half of the first round. Dane, I want your favorite swing among the back half of the first round offensive tackle prospects here.

And I think this is a fair way to frame it because all the guys that we're going to talk about are at 17 or below in your top 100. For me, it's Monroe Freeling from Georgia. If we're talking three years from now and you tell me Freeling's the best tackle to come out of this draft, it's like, okay, yeah, I absolutely could see that. I think there's a very good chance if Freeling would have returned to school. We're talking about him as a top 10 pick next year. It's just, you know, he's a guy that had under 20 starts in college. I think Kirby Smart and the Georgia coaching staff were kind of cut off guard when he declared for the NFL draft. I think they were assuming they would get him back for one more year.

But he played so well down the stretch. Like, the more reps that he had, you saw him got better and better and better as the left tackle at Georgia. And so he's got that protoscible body. He's got the length. He tested well. I think you see that on film with his ability to move. He's kind of a late bloomer in terms of the position and adding weight. And so he's still figuring things out in terms of how to use this frame of his, how to shift his weight in his movements.

And so there's still things that he's connecting the dots. And you see that quite often. And that's why we're talking about him as my 17th overall. player and not like a top 10 pick is there's still a disconnect about where he is now and where he could be and absolutely he has a good chance of getting there but there's still a projection involved but i think he is the in terms of the true left tackles in this draft i think he's the best one where you add on freeling brandon because i know you have a different answer to this question um yeah i mean i i agree with a lot of what dane said i would just have a different answer like you

said, but I mean, Freeling, he's straight out of central casting in terms of how you want your left tackle to look and move. So there's that and he's young. You know, he turns 22 in July. So, yeah, I mean, but, you know, one-year starter. He's, you know, expectedly very raw. I have concerns, again, about his play strength, maybe not like raw strength. And, you know, I love the way he's built.

He's broad. He's dense. All that type of stuff long. But specifically in the run game, you know, his ability or in. ability, I should say, to sustain blocks on like the base angle drive, kind of like I need to uproot this defensive lineman on my own sort of blocks. I think he's really susceptible to getting push pulled off of his feet, getting overextended. He's on the ground, maybe more than you would like to see from the central casting sort of left tackle. I think leverage and his ability to

play with consistent leverage is a real question. And you see that manifest in past protection a little bit as well in terms of being set up by moves here and there, letting guys into his chest, playing tall, playing high. I mean, he is tall. So that's going to be kind of an uphill battle for him to mitigate that, you know, with good hands and good timing and all that type of stuff. So, yeah, he could certainly pay off and you could see a Colton Miller type guy, you know, in a few years.

I think that that is certainly on the table. But I just think situation is going to matter immensely for him. and that's why I have a second round grade on him and I know he's going to go on the first but I just think you're rolling the dice a little bit more than I would be comfortable with for like a top 10, 20 sort of pick you know end of the first is where I would start to be

open to getting freeling I think more so than up there that Colton Miller parallel I think is spot on I mean it's kind of what I wrote down to a guy that when he was coming out of UCLA there are these big questions marks about, okay, well, he's not near ready. And, you know, is he ever going to realize the potential? And I don't think the Raiders have any regrets about making that selection in the mid-first round.

And so, like we said, there's obviously some risk involved with the player like this. But in the mid-first round, I definitely think it's worth it at that point. I think we're having, those are two different conversations that I think are worth having. Mid-first round for a player like this, if he ends up being Colton Miller, that, that totally makes sense. But I think that some people have framed his ceiling as higher than that. Where with Colton Miller, you like the movement skills, like what he brings is a pass blocker, but you still have concerns about what he's bringing in terms of physicality, the play strength, all of that. And I feel like in some of the ways I've seen Freeling framed in this process, it's that those concerns

don't exist to the same level they might with a Colton Miller, where he's worth drafting a little bit higher because he has this sky high ceiling. And Brandon, the way that you're talking about him, I don't think you see Monroe Freeling as that type of prospect. No, I don't. I mean, I compared him to Anthony Costanzo, too. That's a late first round pick who I watched when I first started studying tape and stuff. And, you know, Costanza was solid to good for, you know, a while.

That's what I see more so here. Same with Colton Miller's on that level as well. I don't think Colton Miller was ever really a top 10 left tackle, you know, maybe flirted with that a little bit, but he was more like top. 15, just a guy you definitely want and you'd probably draft him in the first round again, especially, you know, mid to late. But yeah, I just, I don't see an all pro on the, on the table here personally. I mean, would it be shocking?

No, but I just, I wouldn't bet on that. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of where I, where I land on him. And again, I just think situation's so important. And when you're talking about later first, there, there's some situations there that that would get me excited about him. But yeah. When you talk situation, are you talking schematic or you just in terms of like development plan and the ecosystem that they would land in with the track record that that team has with

offensive linemen? I think both and in addition to that also the construction of the offensive line room and the expectations placed upon him early. So you think of somewhere like Philly, you know, where he wouldn't have to necessarily play. I'd get excited about Chicago just because of the infrastructure there, play next to that scheme. I'd get excited in San Francisco because he doesn't have to play and he has, you know, an elite guy to learn from, you know, New England even, you know, where he wouldn't have to play necessarily right away and he could kind of, you know, get eased into things.

So, yeah, there's a bunch of teams, you know, outside the top 20 that would get me excited. But yeah, I think the construction of the room and just where he has a little bit of runway to kind of ease into things and he's not the guy, you know, like in, in, in, you know, in, you know, Cleveland, that one worries me because, you know, the new scheme, the quarterback's not necessarily going to help you, I don't think, you know, and then is Zion Johnson going to be kind of a stabilizing force for you? I have my doubts. So it's just that one is like more, there's more burden on him early. And I think that kind of worries me a little bit with a player like this. You guys know how a lot more than me. I watch him and he's one of those guys where I just,

I choose to see it with a little bit of rose color glasses where like I watch the way he moves and you just think about how young he is. And it's just easy to talk myself into the runway. And I'll say this. In terms of how he's been framed, the Colton Miller comparisons, the idea that he's this easy mover with some play strength concerns,

his mentality was different than I expected it to be. Like, he does bring a little bit of grit to like when he needs to uproot people. He had a rep against Keldrick Falk as like a head-up defensive end out of the shadow of his own goalpost against Auburn, where I was like, all right, I can fuck with that. Like I like that. There's flashes.

There were more, there was more of that than I expected there to be with a guy that kind of had been painted the way that he had, Monroe Freeling. And so I think I like the upside case a little bit more than you guys do. But again, you guys have watched much more of him than I have. And one thing I'll just interject here. Like for me, this really resonated with me when Daniel Jeremiah said this on a podcast recently. He was talking about how he views first round picks. And he tends to gravitate towards the idea. of hitting it down the fairway

and hitting doubles with his firsts. And I'm in the same camp, you know, personally, especially from as a media member. Like, you know, if I was scouting for the Eagles, I would have a different grade on Monroe Freeling. But, you know, where I'm projecting to all 32 as an outsider kind of, like, I want to hit it down the fairway.

So that's why maybe another guy we'll talk about here shortly as a guy that I favor a little bit. I'm the opposite way, where with the offensive linemen, not my job. Like I can bet on the upside all day because I'm not the one making the pick. And it's funny because with other positions on the opposite of this. And

Dane, one of my takeaways, the last thing point I wanted to make about Freeling, when I was watching the Auburn game back, I walked away from that game feeling very different about Keltrick Falk than I did about the other games that I had seen. He was lined up as like a wide defense event, a lot more in that game. You saw some of the

pass rush potential. And so that it's funny because I was impressed by Freeling in that game in some ways, but I also walked away from, also because Freeling played hurt in that game. He had gotten hurt the week before. There's a lot of stuff there. But watching Caldric Falk in that Auburn, Georgia game, I was like, okay, I kind of do see this.

I kind of do see like what this could be with Celtric Falk. Georgia was probably Falk's most promising game, most promising tape. I think that is absolutely fair. And part of it is, you know, a lot of those times he was going up against Friling, who they went back and forth. And with Freeling, I think that was part of the, why it was easy to kind of catch on with him

is because you watch him in September, you have one thought, you watch him in October, you have another, then you watch him in November. It's like, okay, this is getting better and better in terms of mixing up his past sets. And oh, he's still, no, that's a negative rep, but he came back. And, you know, it felt like he was learning.

It felt like he was progressing. And I think that gives you optimism. And, but it's interesting that, you know, those two players in particular, going up against each other, two guys that are, you know, toolsy guys that you expect to be better pros than what they showed in college.

It's a fascinating case study when it comes to, like, how you think about and talk about it and watch prospects. So, Dane, your answer for your favorite back end of round one swing was Monroe Freeling who you had going at 17 to the Lions? Brandon, you had a different answer for who your favorite back end of round one swing was at offense tackle. Who was that for you?

Yeah, I mean, you know, for me, this is the Blake Miller, you know, at Climb. And, you know, I just this is- Right down the fairway, baby. Exactly. You know, precisely. That's exactly what it is, man. I mean, you just look at his profile and it just screams, you know,

instant, long-time, solid starter. And yeah, I mean, it's really like that cut and dry. I mean, we could get into, dig into it a little bit, like, you know, extremely durable, extremely accountable and tough. And like Dane said in The Beast, I think he missed. just one or two practices, whatever it was over the course of four years. And I think it's really cool that he's a four-year starter and he's still young. I think usually we think of four-year starters as a 24-year-old.

He's 22. So I think that's kind of a cool juxtaposition there that makes him appealing to me because I think there's still a little bit more to extract out of him, you know, in terms of consistency and technique, as there is with most guys, but, you know, more so than you would think with the four-year starters. So, and he just kind of checks all the boxes in terms of all the things you want to see. I mean, is anything overwhelmingly, you know, or close to elite with him? I don't think so.

His football character is elite, but I just think the tools are just all solid. Athletic ability, play shrink power, competitive toughness, processing, all that type of stuff. And yeah, I mean, I compared him to like the present day like Colton McIvitts. You know who I think McIvitts early on took took a while. you know, it's pretty rough out there. But the last year and a half, the last year and a half, Colton McIvitts is a different player.

And he's just rock solid now, in my opinion. He's one of the 10 probably best right tackles in the league. So that's kind of how I see Blake Miller from day one. So to me, again, this is a second round graded player who I would be comfortable, you know, at the tail end of the first, for those reasons. It's funny. just to give the listeners an idea of our process.

So, like, Brandon and I are, we're texting constantly throughout the year as we watch these guys. And I don't know. Don't let me speak for you. But I feel like Blake Miller was a little bit of an acquired taste for both of us just because, like, there's just parts of his game that you're like, I don't know. He's a little rigid. He's a little. But then you just keep watching him. And he keeps executing.

You find out more about him in terms of the football character. the way he processes things, the way that, you know, you mentioned the experience, all the starts, he plays like a four-year starter. You know, he plays like a guy that is minimizing mental mistakes and getting the most out of what he has. And so I think that that first tape you watch, you're like, eh, okay, you know, maybe it could be a day two guy. I don't know, we'll see.

But then the more you watch, you just gain this appreciation for him. Colton McKivitz is a good name to throw out because I was going to mention a couple other guys here because I think some fans would hear oh he's just merely like a starting caliber right tackle is that somebody you want to draft in the first round. Cold McIvitz makes $15 million a year. A lot of those guys

in that range like those starting caliber right tackles, Zach Tom might be a little bit underpaid in that like 20-ish that he makes but you look at a guy like Caleb McGarry who if you look at the physical con in terms of RAS we can talk about that in a second with Lake Miller and that's another question but his physical comp, one of his biggest physical

comps is Caleb McGarry. Caleb Gary was an older prospect, they're different as players. But when you think about them tiered as right tackles, Caleb McGarry got $17.5 million on that second contract and everyone was kind of like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that is what you have to pay a starting caliber right tackle. And so there's a lot of value in finding a guy that is workable at that position, even if there isn't any one single trait brand of who they are,

like a guy like Blake Miller coming into the draft happens to be. Yeah. And just when you stack right tackle and left tackle. just the fact of the matter is like right tackle just isn't deep you know compared to left tackle left tackle is very deep in the NFL so if you could get a solid or better right tackle I think that's even in some sense just like extreme it's extremely valuable because if you are a high-end super talented tackle you're going to be playing left most likely first there are of course you know penesu and lane Johnson you know who says otherwise but there's just a shorter list of those guys

the drop off at right tackle happens sooner than left. So I think it's even, that makes it that much more valuable to get a guy like Blake Miller out there who, you know, is going to be right away like a top 10, 12 right tackle, in my opinion, in the league. So, yeah, I mean, I like him better than McGarry, too, you know, I just, I just think McGarry was such a, you know, just a run dominant sort of player. Very specific type of player, yes. Yeah, yeah, well, Blake Miller's just real steady kind of across the board.

So, yeah, I mean, I could see. like a Taylor Moten level kind of guy eventually, you know, that kind of caliber players. So, yeah, I like Blake Miller. And like Dane said, the more you watch them, the more you learn about him, the more he grows on you for sure. Dan, were you surprised by how Blake Miller tested? A little. I mean, he, the, he was, like, it's very good for context.

Right. 32 and a half vert. He was just around five flat in the 40. like it was it was good it wasn't average it was more good than average and I think that because it's it's funny I was just having this conversation with a scout the other day about how fans would be floored I think by the amount of times the word adequate is used in a scatoring report it's the the most used word in NFL scotty reports over any other word and that's okay there's nothing wrong with adequate but I think he was a little bit better than

in terms of his testing, which I don't know that I necessarily expected. I didn't expect a bad athlete, but I think he was a little bit above that. And, I mean, that's, you know, good for him in terms of where he could go in this draft. What does that do for you? When you see a guy like Blake Miller, who you see is more of an adequate athlete tests like that, does that make you think, oh, maybe there's a little bit more meat on the bone than I expected? Or does it make you think, why doesn't this show up this level of athlete more often when I'm watching a player like Blake Miller? I mean, this goes with every position, right?

If a guy tests different than you expected based on the film, you owe it to the player and to yourself, the evaluation, and go back and kind of look and see and figure out why. And Miller was one of those guys, especially because we didn't have him. He wasn't a senior bowl guy. He didn't do an All-Star game, so we didn't have that data point. And, you know, Clemson's season was so up and down this year. I mean, just the same conversation we're having with T.J. Parker and Avian Terrell and all these Clemson guys that are going to go top 50, it just, it was a almost a disaster season for Clemson

as a whole. But going back and just watching him and I think that you have to make, you have to figure out where you stand in terms of, all right, he's not a big time athlete. He doesn't always play up to those testing numbers, but I think he clears the bar. And that, and that's what it comes down to for me. It's just, does he clear the bar? Even if I don't always see those testing numbers, as long as he clears the bar, I feel okay about it. All right, let's move to the. the inside boys here. Your best interior offensive lineman in this draft, Brandon

is who? Vanga, you want from Penn State with the bullet. Yeah, there, I mean, even with Maui Noa projected inside, I still have Vanga just a touch above, just because less of a projection there. You know, just playing the position he played in college. So, yeah, I just

think he is the cleanest overall prospect in the draft, especially as I finished his season out and just the consistency that you see all the things that you want to see from him. And another guy who largely is kind of out of central casting, except he's polished, you know, as well, much more polished than, you know, a guy like Monroe Freeling who checks all the physical boxes as well.

But, yeah, I mean, to me, he reminds me a lot of like a Mike you potty, just a little bit smaller. Yeah, very similar to your potty, dude. He, except there's some differences, of course. I see that. I see that, though. Yeah. Yeah.

He, the play style is very similar. It's just he's a little smaller, but he's also more athletic. But yeah, just, I think he is above average at pretty much everything or better. And I think his power and play strength is very good. I don't really see a weakness that you could poke a hole in here, aside for maybe level of competition not being great this year. But he's asked to do a little bit of everything. you see him execute every block you could want to see him execute in I think any kind of scheme

I just think he would upgrade a lot of places at left guard and maybe even right guard but yeah I mean I think about him in a place like oh man I don't like of course Baltimore's chalk you know I mean Baltimore of course that that would make a ton of sense but there's just for a reason it just like you can just see it and like you can see it transforming what they want that offense to be especially after last year when that line just didn't play the way that you wanted it after 2023. And if he slips outside the top 20, I mean, Pittsburgh, that is all day,

losing Siamalu and putting in Vanga or the Chargers. Oh, yeah, the Chargers. Chargers would do backflips. They would be doing backflips if he was there at 22. Those are the floors, I think, 21, 22. But, yeah, I mean, like, there's just a lot of situations where I could see Vanga being a good player

from day one with that Pro Bowl sort of potential there as well and you know for those reasons to me like he's he's my favorite guy in the draft that I would kind of stand on the table for highest in the first round Brandon if you're the GM of the Ravens and both Fano

and Yuanay are there does the potential versatility of what Fano offers does that give him a little bit of an edge or are you still going with your top offensive lineman there yeah I would probably still go with my top offensive lineman there

because I have tackle, you know, situated, you know, at least, at least right now. So Fauna would have to move positions so that, you know, brings in a little bit of variance there. Whereas Vanga, you just slot him into where he's always played and, you know, you just hit the ground running. So, yeah, I lead Vanga in that situation personally. I was talking to an offensive coordinator recently about this idea of how you, when you draft a guard in the first round and what type of player they have to be. And anytime you're sliding a tackle inside to guard, even if you think they're better there, there's always at least a little bit of projection where you don't know how it's going to go. And so even if the theoretical upside of a Maui no is higher than you want to just based on what he's bringing to the table,

there's always a little bit of uncertainty. And something he said that I think I'll, you never, you guys know this. Sometimes you hear something from a coach or an evaluator and it changes the way that you think about things forever. It's just so incisive and well stated. and he said to me is like if you're going to draft a premium player in the first round they need to change practice practice needs to feel different because that guy is there and i wonder diane do you think you'll want to is that sort of guard prospect if you're going to draft him in the top half of the first round where he potentially changes the way your offense feels during practice um i i think he has at least that

ability like i we're not going to put the quentin nelson type of comment on and writing like that. Yes, I'm not going to do that. But I do think hearing from teams after the combine, just like how his interviews went, they were all just glowing. I mean, just in terms of the way he carries himself, the way he answered questions,

he, like the physical nature that he plays with, like he doesn't come off that way off the field, but there's a switch that flips when he's on the field, whether it's practice or in games. So, yeah, I don't want to, I comp him to, Steve Avila, like that type of player. But I do think he has it in him to drastically, you know, stand out.

Like when he's out there, I don't, I don't, like, when your owner comes out and we're looking at training camp, I don't think the owner is going to have to ask, so who was our first round pick? Like, I think pretty easy to spot him, even if he's a guard. That's kind of what I mean. Like, just one of those guys, when you watch practice, it's like, all right, this feel, it feels different because he's out there. He doesn't have to be Quentin Nelson in order for that to be.

true. But I think that probably checks the box. Spoiler, your answer is also Vega-Euwanai for this day. Yeah, there's just not a ton of guesswork here. You know, when I do my reports in the Beast, I want at least five bullet points for the negatives.

And it's like, all right, he missed one game this year, so that's a negative. He only played left guard in college, and that's a negative. No proven versatility here. But it's, you're reaching a little bit because this is a

and he's a good athlete not an elite athlete but certainly again clears the bar for what you're going to be asking him to do the physicality the violence that he plays with especially in the run game just thinking about that Oregon tape or the Iowa tape just yeah

this is a player I won on my team you had him at 15 in your seven round mock and it's funny because when I did the on the clock show we did with Lance a couple weeks ago we were talking about the bucks at 15 and I gave him you want to as one of the options and that's what he went with even if it's not like the biggest screaming need if you look at the buck's roster in his mind and clearly in yours when you were

looking at the other players available at 15 you were like this guy's too good for me not to draft him here even with more positions of needs available yeah and i think in that position i think the bucks are going to go best player available and i don't know there wasn't an edge rusher there that they obviously edge rush or lineback are two positions they need very badly but there just weren't the obvious names there. And instead of reaching for one of those positions, we're going to take the best player available. I think that's to me when I think about Jason Light

and how he's going to attack the draft, you could do a lot worse than a guy like Yawane who is going to step in from day one, create competition, and he's going to get on the field. All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break. All right, so the number one into your offensive line, and that was an easy answer for both you guys.

There is a little bit of a difference of opinion here, though. Brandon, your favorite day two interior offensive lineman in this draft is who? This is Keelan Rutledge from Georgia Tech, who is your guy. It is my guy. He's the first guy in the class that I kind of like dubbed my guy whenever it's October or whatever. I saw the Virginia Tech tape. You have a pipe, my friend. You are easy to pin down.

I do, especially when you're talking day two. Like, you know, then I'm, yeah, I'm all aboard. But yeah, the Virginia Tech game. Anytime you're in like one of those power for schools and you get double-digit pancakes in a game, like I'm, you know, you're going to be probably a guy I pay close attention to. And then you watch him against Georgia and he's still, you know, kind of manhandling guys in that game. So, of course, he brings that. He's, you know, the way he's built and the amount of force that he can generate on contact on the first and second level is just, you know, that plays in the NFL. And that's going to, you know, allow him to kind of get on the field right away, I think.

And then I think the athletic ability is really underrated. I think the testing may have opened some people's eyes a little bit to it, but it's also evident when you watch him on film when he's climbing to the second level. And his ability to line up linebackers, especially fast-flowing linebackers. I'm not talking about slow-footed linebackers who are reading and, you know, he gets to tee off. I'm talking about guys he has to track on outside zone, you know, lining up those sorts of guys from the back and the front side. that to me was where I got really excited about him and then you learn more about him

as a person, how he prepares the stuff that he's overcame and his football character and then I sat down with him for an hour and did the film room and that was kind of the cherry on top because it was just like I felt like I was talking to a pro so it's just like yeah he has stuff to clean up with his technique he has that sort of aspect to him where you got to reel him in a little bit and he can get a little sloppy with some of his technique

but if that's like my biggest ding on him then like you know I this is a guy I would definitely get very very excited about I wound up comparing him to Dylan Fairchild I think he reminds me a lot of Fairchild so especially with how Fairchild play this year which was a little better than I thought yeah so that's the kind of caliber of guard I think you would probably get with him and then there's talk that he may play center and then you know Ryan Jensen's on the table and then I get super excited as well so he took some snap at the senior bowl. So that was good to see. And I know teams that have been bringing them in and working them out, they've been having him snap. And so just showing that you could

have that versatility. Because, you know, the centers in this class, it's not a bad group of centers. They're all just kind of third round guys, fourth round guys, guys that could pan out and be solid starters, but maybe not. If he turns out and can be, have that position flex, I think that that's only going to help him and maybe even get him into that first round, get him into that top 40. It's interesting when I talked to, I was talking to a scout about him. The scout never called him Keelan. He never called him Rutledge.

He just called him red. Like that's just what he goes by is just red. And that's what he called him the entire conversation. And it was awesome. And look, when you're when you're head coach, like Brent Key, the Georgia Tech head coach, he's a true football guy. He's an O'Oline guy. He's an Olin guy. Yeah.

True football guy. And he said flat out he's the toughest guy, toughest guy I've ever coached. That carries weight. He coached Josh said in a UCF. So yeah, that is. His beast entry, Dane, there were so many things I wanted to ask you about. The center thing was one of them and just, you know, do we think he could play a center? The fact that he had been doing it.

So the fact that Brand's excited about his upside there and that multiple teams have been putting him through that workout. I think that's notable. You mentioned that you got a quote from a scout that said if the ACC had a royal rumble, I'd be betting on this guy to be the last man standing, which I absolutely love. one of the negatives, I was curious about what you meant by this. You said that there's some choppy footwork stuff and then segmented body control is something that you meant. What do you mean when you say that? A guy has segmented body control as a potential negative on a guy like Hugh and Rutwich.

So, I'm thinking maybe the Clemson tape. Is that I'm kind of going through the roll of decks of all the different clips of them this year. You don't have to pin down the moment that it happened in order to. Well, I'm just, it helps me explain it. by figuring that out. But I think that, you know, especially on the move, like, he's a good athlete. And to Brandon's point, I better athlete than I think myself and others gave him credit for, which showed in the testing.

But it just, there were points where it looked a little rigid. It looked a little, okay, my feet here, my hips here, and then my hand. Like, there were times where it just wasn't fluid when he was either, you know, reaching a defensive tackle or climbing to a lineback. or there were just these segmented parts of when he was executing. And not to the point where it's something that I think is going to stop him from being a good pro or anything like that. Just one of those areas where I think he can clean up. Well, it's hard to be fluid when you're playing rabid, Dane.

It's just one of those things. Sometimes you have to choose one of the other. So Keelan Routledge is Brandon's favorite day two interior offensive line prospect. Who is your favorite day two interior offensive lineman in this class, Dane? So I went with Chase Bessontas who very well might go in the first round. It's possible. But I think that just going based off of where most people expect him to go, second round, I felt comfortable going with him here.

He's another one where you hear the coaches talk about what he does in the weight room and what he does outside of just what the tape says. And it helps just get you more excited about the player. not the longest player that worries me a little bit. You see that lack of length show up at times, but he's so physical and strong. I mean, he's a guy that grew up modeling his game after Quentin Nelson, and I think it shows a little bit with the way he wants to play.

He's efficient as a mover, the way he, whether, you know, think about that Texas A&M offense and, you know, some of the zone runs, some of the outside pools, the way he can get out in space. I feel very comfortable with him doing that. And so I just think that, and this is a three-year player. He's young. He's growing and he's still kind of, I think, on the ascension,

a guy that's going to get better and better. So not a complete player yet. I have a little bit of concern about the position flex. You know, just can, I know he played right tackle, but he's not playing right tackle in the league. He played a little bit of right tackle as a freshman. Last two years, he's been a left guard. Have a little bit of questions about, okay, do I feel comfortable with him at right guard?

Can I play even some center? So that's a little bit of an unproven part of his profile. But the player and where he's headed, I feel really good about those two things. You had him at 28 and your seven round mock that came out today. And the blurb underneath it essentially was based on how much several teams like Bessontas, good chance you want it isn't the only guard drafted in round one. Teams feel like there's going to be another guard drafted in round one. And the three names that keep coming up are Rutledge, Bessontas, and Jennings Dunker.

There's a feeling around the league that one of those guys is going to sneak into the in the round one. And so I wouldn't be surprised at all if his Rutledge. I think Bissontas has a really good chance as well. I think as early as probably the Chargers or the Steelers, I think we're on, assuming that Vanga goes, say, 14 to the Ravens, I think once we get to the 20s, we're on watch for where that second guard could come off the board. Let's just very quickly, I want to hear you talk about this. Let's talk about a player like Bessontas versus one of the incomplete edge prospects. You pick whatever one you want that might be available at 22,

let's say if you're the Chargers and you need that third edge player. What does that conversation look like when you think about the type of prospect Bessonis is compared to the types of maybe premium positions that might be available at 22? Yeah, it's interesting when you frame it like that because, you know, it's in terms of position value and what traditionally you're drafting in the first round, I think it's fair to say that gives the edge to edge. So I think that it's just in terms of that looking at it through that lens, you would lean in that direction as a more premium position.

But at the same time, you look at, say, a team like the Chargers who obviously have a need at Guard. And if they don't love their options based off of, and they don't have a ton of draft picks. No, five. Right. And if they don't love, they have both their day two picks though, right? I'm pretty sure.

Second and third. They don't have a fifth or a seventh. Exactly. So they don't, but maybe they don't love their options in day two. Or maybe they have a high enough grade on Bessontes where it's like, okay, instead of dipping into our second round edges,

we feel good about Bessontas being a closer to the top of that list. And so I just think, obviously there's so many different factors that go into it. But with Bessontas especially, I don't know. I just, I see a guy that's strong. He moves well. And then I think a guy that not only has the physical capabilities, but he feels like a guy that is a sponge. And like he gets better as the more experience he has, the more, you know, he'll make a mistake, but then he learns from it and gets better because of it. And again, everything in the background. So like the strength and conditioning coach for A&M Tommy Moffitt doing this for 30 years. And it was at LSU forever. He came out and said that this is the best squat I've ever seen was Bessontas and talking about how he's the strongest player he's ever coached.

Like that kind of stuff is like, all right, that, that, I'm going to remember that because I know you're not saying that lightly. It was in my notes. It was one of the things I was going to ask you about before we moved on, and let's do that right now. Let's get to, we'll get back to some of the tackle prospects here. These two categories are similar but different enough, and I think it's a important to acknowledge both of them. The first one, Brandon, is I wanted to ask you the highest

ceiling for a player if it works out. And we're going to talk about floor ceiling, but this is different. This doesn't mean the guy has to have a low floor. So if this player works out, whoever your choice happens to be, they have the highest ceiling of any of the tackles in this draft. Who would that player be for you? Yeah, my answer here was Alabama left tackle Caden Proctor. It has to be. Yeah. And it's pure. just going off of his physical traits in terms of, yes, height, weight, arm length, you know, that kind of stuff. But it's the way he's built, the amount of lean muscle mass on his frame is pretty rare.

And then the ability to generate power at the point of attack. His initial quickness and initial explosiveness, both out of his stance and then into defenders at the point of attack, is higher than anybody in the class. So if you can kind of build everything out beyond that point, then you could have a player that could be an all pro or pro bowl kind of guy, potentially even at guard. But, I mean, I know this was for tackle. So, yeah, I mean, I just think that bridge, though, from there into sustaining blocks and adjusting, you know, deep into reps when guys are able to string stuff together and set you up, that's where it's where it's, just kind of falls apart and it becomes a real boom or bust sort of feel. So I think he's going to need a lot of coaching, you know, go to the right situation where he's

offered protection in terms of as a past protector, you know, with, you know, like a run first play action heavy, you know, schemed help on obvious pass down sort of situation, you know, that sort of stuff, at least early on so we could kind of gain some confidence and honus technique. But like you're just working with a guy who could potentially be fired. works, you know, if it all works out. But it also can just, you know, Peter out and he just never gets it. And he's just losing glaringly three or four times a game like he did in college. So I, you know, I landed as a second round grade on him, but like, I don't know what's going to happen with Caden Proctor. I just, I don't know. You know, I had big expectations coming into the year,

and I was really let down by him this season. So that made cloud kind of how I see him a little bit. another guy I think the more you've kind of learn about the way he works and stuff I think you'd be surprised he's not you know kind of like a guy who's laxadaisical about about work so that that's kind of encouraging to me as well it's important because the weight right dan I mean the fact that he is somebody that's willing to work and you may not have to be quite as worried about him maintaining that if it's in the right situation compared to some of these other bigger guys we've seen it's at least part of the consideration when you're thinking about what you're willing to bet on proctor right and I mean, he was over 350 at the at the Combine.

What was he at the pro day? 358. So it's a big boy. I don't, Brandon, you tell me if I'm wrong, but I've never heard of a 350 plus pounder jumping over 32 inches in the bird. No, his testing was special. It was really special. His vertical was all time great, I think, at 350 plus. And then even what else was it that he tested well at?

can't remember. And one broad. Yeah, if you compare him to 350 pound plus guys, like his stuff was pretty special in terms of the linear, you know, testing. But the vert was all time. Yeah, talking to a scout who I was talking to him as he was leaving the Alabama Pro Day. And maybe he was just high on the workout. But like literally. But he said it was the best offensive line workout he had ever seen, Caden Proctor, and said,

definitively, if we felt better about the person and the consistency, like that he was going to reach his full potential, he would be a top five lock in this draft. So that just goes straight to exactly what this question is asking in terms of the ceiling. It's just, it's rare to find a guy like this with this type of ability. It's just how confident are you he's going to get there? And I think the conversation about him potentially starting at guard is interesting. And that's why not to step on. I get excited about that. Yeah.

You said you can or you can? I can because then Carl Nix is on the table and, you know, guys like that, you know. When I watched him, it was the first place my mind went because there's just such, there's so much less space to navigate if you move him inside to guard. Exactly. I'm not worrying about those inside moves. Yeah. And so that's why not to step on best fits, but that's why I love that fit with him in Philly. Just thinking about plug him in a guard and then hopefully, you know, maybe in two years you move him to right tackle or you move him out to tackle.

But maybe in two years you don't want to because at that point he's a pro bowl guard. Yeah, I think it's he is a he's one of the wild cards of the first round. I don't think he's going to go top 10 or anything like that. But he could easily go in the teens or he could just as well go 15 picks later. He's a hard one to figure out. Where does he need to be more consistent in your mind, Dan? Because we talk about this sky high ceiling and then you talk about it. You just need to be more consistent.

Like where are those things that need to get ironed out and do we have confidence that a guy like Kiden Proctor can iron those things out? A lot of it comes down to just the leverage that he needs to play with. You know, and that comes in pass pro, that's, you know, his landmarks and understanding what the rusher is trying to do to him. It just for a guy that size, he shouldn't lose that position. leverage as much as he does. I mean, Brandon,

like, that's kind of what you're thinking, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think he plays way too passively for a guy 350 pounds, and then it turns into basketball on grass, and it's this one-on-one island game. And you just...

He's too good of an athlete. It's incepted him into thinking he's something that he's not. Yeah, it really has. Like, if he's playing more aggressively, you know, in like a play action, sort of heavy scheme where he could jumpset, and even non-play action,

where he could kind of dictate terms a little bit, set more flat on guys. You know, I know why nine guys, you can't really do that, but then set more vertical so you make them come to you. But this 45 degree angle set, you know, that's like the Trent Williams sort of set or, you know, like the Lane Johnson sort of set. Like, that's just not what you do at 350 plus pounds.

Nobody wins like that when you're 350 plus. And I think that has put him in positions to where it's made him look like maybe not as good of an athlete as he really is because he's getting manipulated out of these. position so easily and then guys are making him look frankly silly on a lot of reps because I think it is a positional leverage thing, you know, in terms of his relationship between the defender and the quarterback. He, yeah, he needs a lot of work in that regard. And it also translates into the run game as well. He has some overaggressive tendencies where he can over extend. I think it's

really important for people to watch his 2024 tape as well next to Tyler Booker because I thought you saw many more flashes last year. And it's honestly why I was so excited about him this year. And then this year, he just took a step back. So, yeah, but the 2024 film was better. And you see more of it there. So, yeah, he's a tough one to figure out, though. It's weird talking about Alabama and offensive line as like,

I just, I don't have a lot of confidence in the way they were coached. Especially as of late. Right. Well, since Saban left, I mean, it's been different. And it's not, it wasn't just a proctor problem. All five of the starting offensive linemen this year for Alabama, it seemed like they took a step back. And so they made some changes this off season, which were overdue. But it's hard to put into context how that factors into the evaluation as well. The other guy I wanted to at least bring up here was Max and Honesthorpe from Arizona State because I wasn't sure if we were going to get to him otherwise. Dan, do you think he's in the conversation for a guy who might have the highest ceiling among this entire group? Yeah, I think you have to mention him. He's a guy that's been playing football for five years. And so there's just no substitute for experience.

And for as much hype as he got at the Senior Bowl, he had plenty of negative plays in the Senior Bowl as well, where you saw that youth and that inexperience. But at the same time, we're talking about a guy that's 6-6, 320 pounds, and that dancing bear that you like so much. And it's not like he came out of nowhere. In my August top 50 coming into the year, he made it. He was in there. I was excited to see what he could look like in year two as a starter at Arizona State.

And it was a little bit up and down at times, but the talent is still there. I think that when is he going to be able to get on the field? And I think this is where maybe the biggest disconnect is between who you mask in the league, team to team, coach to coach, is can you throw them out there from day one and just let them learn on the fly? Is he going to have to miss or is he going to have to, you know, just wait, you know, half a year. Does he need a redshirt year? I think that's the biggest disconnect when you talk to teams about, because that obviously affects his value in the draft, about where exactly you draft them and stack them with these other guys. But in terms of

ceiling, yeah, I understand certainly why you would bring him up in this conversation. And I think you're relatively a little lower on Iana Chor than a lot of people. people in the industry have been post-senior bow and since he's kind of gained a little bit of esteem. Would you say that's fair? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And, and I mean, yeah, he's he's a guy that kind of like Freeling, where central casting, right, the way he looks, the way he just moves, um, some of the flashes of power. Like it's, I get all that, you know, elite testing. But I just think he's more raw than even Freeling is. And then part of that is due to his newness of football like Dane mentioned, I think that's a really important context. But I still see a pretty low floor with

him. And I don't see as high of a ceiling personally, just because I think he has a ways to go with his understanding of footwork, hands, and past protection, protecting himself in terms of his frame and his chest and getting manipulated. And like, you know, I think the Texas Tech game was a little overrated, in my opinion, the David Bailey reps, you know, the one-on-one ones. There's six or seven of those, I think at least four of those. I mean, it was, you know, catch and throw kind of, you know, concepts where the ball's out in two seconds. He had a couple impressive reps there. You could see flashes of the recovery skills, certainly there.

But you watch Mississippi State game, for instance, like, that's a tough one to watch. It was earlier in the year, granted. But then you even watch the Arizona game. I mean, five, ten plays in. I mean, he's on the ground, you know, in pass protection, losing clean. And then I saw the same stuff at the Senior Bowl. There's flashes of really high-end stuff, but there's a lot of stuff even there where he's losing very cleanly and glaringly. I don't think he was challenged much on tape even with the David Bailey reps, you know, in consideration.

I think when he's, you know, if he's tasked with protecting on an island in the NFL early on against, you know, wide alignments where he has to deal with a lot of space and navigate that, I just think. you know, there's going to be a wide, wide variance there. So he's a guy, I think it's really especially important where he has that runway to be eased into things. He is more of a developmental kind of guy for me than others may think. And the variance level there to me is just wider than, I guess, some other people, you know, see it in this class. Some cold water on what some of the discussion around him has looked like a little bit recently. Yeah, I like him in the right situation at the right point in the draft, but yeah, like, you know. Where is he overall on your guys' board at Bleacher Report?

Yeah, let me. He's low. He's pretty low, yeah. Because I have like a high third, late second round grade on him, which, you know, tackle tax. That's, you know, I'd be comfortable in the early second. But, yeah, like he's like 70. He's in the 70s. Okay.

for us. You have to take into account the Bleacher Report like the system that they use like it's ranked by like where you have them in terms of overall

prospect quality and so like Brandon said if you consider like position in there he's probably what closer to like 50 something Brandon even a little bit higher than that

he'll be in the 60s when it's all said and done for us but yeah like I have based on our grade like our grading scale he just fits to me more of like a high level

backup year one who has upside as a starter. And I will concede that the upside is, you know, pretty considerably high. But early on, I just don't know that I see that happening. I just think that the timeline, my timeline and how I think about him is just different than others do, I guess. And that's ultimately what it comes down to because I still can see the ceiling. I just think he has further away to get there. There's more variables, you know, to me.

Let's talk about one more guy that's kind of a risk or war type of proposition, especially in your mind, day. that's Caleb Lomu from Utah, somebody that we see going in the back half of the first round consistently. I asked you about the biggest risk reward guys in this class, and he was one of the names that you wanted to mention. What about Caleb Lomu to you makes him a risk reward proposition in the 2026 draft? He just needs to get stronger, and that's not always a given. He's a young player. He's one of the few redshirt sophomores in this draft, started the last two years of left tackle for Utah, which all. obviously push Spencer Fonnerner the right side.

But you love, obviously, when you watch his past pro reps and it looks clean, it's like, all right, that's how you draw it up. That, you know, the frame, the body control, the footwork, that's exactly how you want them to look in pass pro. But then when guys are able to reach his body or in the run game, you see the lack of play strength. And sometimes it's considerably so going up against some of these defenders. And it's obviously not going to get easier against NFL calls.

competition. So just that gives you a little bit of pause how much how long before he gets to that point where you can feel comfortable with him outside and on an island against NFL pass rushers. That's where I think there's more there's more risk here than I think some people admit, but the reward is certainly high as well. He was the guy among this entire group that just left me a little bit cold. As I got excited watching everyone else, he was the one where I walked away being like he's a fluid athlete i can understand it there just wasn't brandy when i watched keel blow him a lot that lit me up where even if i could acknowledge the downside with some of the other guys there was more that just got me excited when i went back and watched a couple of these games

yeah i think that's fair um you know i think again going back to 2024 too it's kind of important you see a little bit more flashes too there um and past protection but yeah i think he you know the reason why I have him edged over a guy like Ionacores, because I think he's a more natural mover in past protection. And I think his recovery skills, it comes more natural to him to recover. And I think there's some really nice flashes of that, but still an inconsistent player for sure, who his biggest hang up for me as well as play strength. You know, I compared him to Walker Little. I see a very similar kind of caliber player to that. You know, maybe like, you know, I think high end, you know, he could turn out to be similar to like a Brian O'Neill maybe who's had play strength concerns, certainly in the NFL.

You know, maybe like a Charles Cross, you know, that's potential. That's high end outcomes, I think, around the table. But like I settled more like mid-range like Walker Little, you know. I mean, I just, yeah, that's ultimately. And I think play strength was his biggest hang up as well. But there's some natural recovery skills there. that I think if you have a runway for him to kind of, you know, develop physically and just kind of get eased into things and not lose his confidence and all that sort of stuff, he's 21. Like, when he's 24, he could look like a different human being in terms of, like, physically.

So when you have that athletic ability undergirding and that recovery skill undergirding that, like that to me, yeah, you know, late second, somewhere like that, like, I would love to take a swing on him. but first round is just too rich for me. It's not just physical concerns either, though, Dane, right? I mean, isn't that some of the thought about Lomo? I mean, some of the things you, you typically, I think, are pretty generous in the way that you write up prospects. And when I read between the lines when you bring the hammer down a little bit and reading his write-up Caleb Lomo and the Beast,

it was just like, I can see Dane being a little bit frustrated with the oomph that Caleb Lomu is bringing to some of these reps. Yeah, because I'm not going to kill these guys, Clearly, you know, there's holes in his game and things that he needs to get better at. And it's being more consistent on a down-in-down basis. But like Brandon said, he's a young player. And so I was really hoping he'd go back for another year in college. But he's also a mature guy off the field.

Like, he just got married like a month ago. He's a young player. I'm a little more excited for his future than Brandon, but certainly understanding the risk here. There's no guarantee he's going to get there. All right, very quickly. We alluded to a couple of them. Best fits for a couple of these guys before we get out of here. Dan, just ripped through a couple of them for you.

Proctor to Philly. I think that makes sense. Blake Miller to the Patriots. I like that one. Just protect Drake May at all costs. Do what you have to do. Add Blake Miller to that. And then here's a fun one for you.

The Bears, they need to draft the center at some point, right? Yes. Connor Liu from Auburn. a guy that tore his ACL back in October, but I think you're betting on what he's going to be next year and going forward. There's a lot of upside there. I was going to, just as a personal thing,

ask you who the bear should be taken in the third round, and so I will be going back and watching some of that tape today. Brian, who you got, best fits in this draft? Yeah, Venga you wanted to the Ravens, I think, is an obvious one. Francis Maui, Noah to the Rams, as we touched on, I think if Spencer Fonda were to drop, then there's several areas where, especially if you want to move in positions, somewhere like Chicago, somewhere like the 49ers. You know, I believe Brenda's a free agent after this year. Like, that would be incredible to see him, you know, kind of make that transition into that scheme.

Those stand out. Proctor to Philly, I agree. That's the ideal landing spot for him. And, yeah, I'll throw like, you know, Monroe Freeling. out there to somewhere like New England would be great, you know, where he doesn't have to necessarily play right away and can learn. Yeah, those to me are all ones that stand out for sure. All right. We could go three hours on this thing, but I've taken up enough of both your time. I thoroughly enjoyed that conversation. Appreciate the time. Brandon, always great

to chat with you. Please tell the people where they can check out all the work that you were doing about both this offensive line class and the position in general. Yeah, so people can go to trench warfare.substack.com and subscribe to my newsletter there and then bleacher report.com and you can find all my scouting reports on this entire offensive line class. That is, I believe, the last position-specific breakdown we have for this class. You can go check out all of them on the athletic football show feed. On Building the Beast, we got DB's, linebackers, anything else? Tight ends.

Yeah. D.Bs, linebackers and tight ends. And then we got defensive linemen, offensive linemen, wide receivers on the athletic football show feed. And so you got six deep dive position breakdowns available for you currently in your podcast feed or on YouTube.

So go check those out when you get a chance. Like we said earlier in the show, drafts a week away. Very excited about that. Very excited about everything we've got coming your way. For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating. We'll see you next time.