The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Who has the most at stake in the 2023 NFL season?

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Every NFL season means different things to different people. Who will look back at 2023 as an inflection point in their respective careers? Robert Mays and Lindsay Jones from The Ringer tab the coaches and players with the most at stake in 2023 on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.Follow Robert on Twitter: @robertmaysFollow Lindsay on Twitter: @bylindsayhjonesSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/MAYS and get on your way to being your best self.The Football 100, the definitive ranking of the NFL’s best 100 players of all time, goes on sale this fall. Pre-order it here. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. Joining me today, it is our old friend, Lindsay Jones. Lindsay, how are you doing? I'm great. How are you doing, Robert? Nice to be back here.

I'm good. I am so glad that you're here. I'm on the road right now. It is that time of year back at training camp. Incredibly excited to be back and having football conversations in person with football people, one of my favorite times of the year. And in order to celebrate that, I wanted to. to do a show that we've done, I think probably for the last couple years, me and you, and it didn't feel right for you not to be a part of it as we did it end of this year.

I want to talk about the people who have the most at stake as we head into the 2023 NFL season. I always like doing this, just kind of figuring out who the stakeholders are as we get into any conversation. I feel like it was one of the things driven home to me during journalism school. Like any time you were writing something, it's like, who are the stakeholders? What actually matters here? What is hanging in the balance? And as we embark upon another NFL season, I feel.

like it's the perfect time to kind of take a step back and identify, all right, who are the eight to ten people here in the NFL who do have the most at stake as we kind of barrel toward week one? Yeah, and it's hard. I always like doing this too because I feel like it's a good primer for camp. But I will say the thing that I have to try really hard to do is like you could make an argument for two thirds of the head coaches and two thirds of the quarterbacks in this league. And a lot of those guys are not going to be on my list here today because, look, we spend a lot of time talking about head coaches and quarterbacks. So I was trying to find. And I do have some quarterbacks on my list.

But trying hard to come up with maybe some guys who play different positions or, you know, just not everybody who's like the most obvious answers. Although I think we will have some of the pretty obvious guys here too. So why don't you start us off at a spot that I felt like we needed to address as we kicked off this podcast? Yeah, I mean, I'll look up talking about head coaches. How about Bill Belichick? You know, I... Crazy to say that the most accomplished coach in the history of the sport would be one of the guys with the most stake heading into the season. But I think that we have to talk about him here.

Yeah, I mean, I think when I would kind of go through this list and do this exercise, I try to look at like who is at kind of a pivot point or an inflection point in their season, in their career, in their legacy. And I think Belichick is at kind of a lot of those things. Right now, I mean, I think when you, like, look, he could, no matter what happens today, or this year, he'll be the greatest coach of all time, first ballot hall of fame or all of those type of things. But what has happened over the last couple years, and particularly what happened last season, has put him and the Patriots at a really, really interesting spot and a place that they have not been in a very, very, very long time. They're not the favorite in the AFC East.

They're not the second favorite in the AFC East. They might not even be picked to finish third in the AFC East. And a lot of this is because of Bill Belichick's doing the roster decisions he's made, the coaching decisions that he's made. And then obviously the moves of the rest of the division and the rest of the AFC has made to kind of catch up and surpass him. So, you know, I just look at this as being a really pivotal year for not, you know, the Patriots as a whole, but specifically how we talk and think about Bill.

Belichick. And, you know, I don't think it's necessarily going to change his overall legacy, but this is a guy who, if things continue to spiral, if the Bill O'Brien hire isn't a home run, if Mack Jones continues to regress and doesn't make progress in year three, this is, you know, we're going to be talking about potentially some major changes there. And, you know, that's really hard when you have a guy who's at almost 300 career wins, right? I mean, one of the best coaches of all time. So they're just so interesting to me. And it's a place that's just going to be full of drama week in and week out. And he's going to be at the center of all of it. Tom Curran earlier, I think it was last week, went on Rich Eisen's show and explicitly stated that he thinks that Bill

Bellichick is on the hot seat. Tom's covered the Patriots for, I don't know how long, as long as I've been in this business. I mean, he knows what's going on there. He's around there all the time. So when he says that, it definitely makes me listen a little bit harder. You go back the last couple years. In 2021, this team spent a shitload in free agency. You know, you're coming off the Tom Brady Super Bowl. I'm sure no one in town was happy about that to watch him walk out the door and see him play the way that he did in Tampa. And they spent so much in free agency that year. They went out and got Matt Judon. They paid those tight ends. They gave Nelson Aguilar that contract that I think we all understood was a mistake even in the moment. They made the playoffs that year, but I think the

results from those signings were pretty underwhelming. You know, Johnny Smith's obviously moved on already. and they've really pulled back how aggressive they've been in the roster building process overall. It kind of feels like in that first year, it's like, all right, let's go show them. Like, let's go show them what we can do even when Tom's not here after that kind of strange interstitial season in 2020. But after the way that it's gone over the last couple seasons, it kind of feels like Robert Kraft has pulled the reins back a little bit. Where it's like, you know what, Bill, why don't you take it easy in the amount of money that you're throwing around, the amount of leeway that we're going to give you to kind of put ourselves in a worse position for the future for you to maximize the present. They're near the bottom of the league and the amount of money that they've spent on this roster.

They have $100 million in cap space heading into next year. They didn't go out and do something like the Danter Hopkins signing. They haven't gone out and signed Dalvin Cook. And I don't think that's necessarily an accident. It kind of feels like they're in wait and see mode with how this season is going to go before they decide whether they want to commit or how they want to commit to what the next phase of this franchise looks like. So there's a chance that they get to the end of this year. And they're an eight and nine team or seven and ten team.

and they finished last in the AFC East, and Robert Kraft looks at Bill and says, you know what, Bill, it's not for you to kick upstairs. You know, we're going to figure out a new way to do this. We're going to have Gerard Mayo step in and be the head coach. Why don't you step in as an advisor, you know, in some sort of different leadership position, and we'll figure out what the next step of this looks like. That isn't a crazy thing to imagine. And I think that's what's at stake for Bill Belichick,

because it's him kind of getting to dictate how he wants to leave this position, how he wants to leave the coaching world, and whether or not they nudge him in one direction or the other after this years over. I mean, I just keep looking at that career wins list, too, and he's sitting there. How many is he back? 30. He's at 298. Don Shula is at 328. So 30 wins. That's a bit, right? I mean, you're going to have to coach for a while. And if you're a mediocre team, you say eight wins, seven wins. Does that feel like the ceiling? That kind of to me feels like the ceiling. I mean, I'm fairly down on this team.

I'm not like super excited about the Bill O'Brien. Like, yes, he is not Matt Patricia and that's fantastic. But that bar is so low. And there's a part of me that wishes that Bill Belichick would have gotten more creative. You know, he had the entire league at his disposal to make a hire. And he kind of, you know, went out and did the thing he always does, which is hire somebody that he's familiar with that has coached there before, that understands the Patriot way, whatever.

You know, I look at you, you look around at the. the rest of the NFL and you see, you know, coaches branching out from their trees. And, you know, like, I look at what Frank Reich is done. And we'll see. Who knows how that's going to go in Carolina? But I'm really inspired by the fact that he didn't just, like, kind of go with what he knows and, like, just dig into the past of people that he worked with in India or Philadelphia, that he really tried to, like, bring in new ideas, knowing that he is a young quarterback

that he needs to develop, bring in different minds, different philosophies, different offensive schemes and try to marry that all together, where Belichick is like kind of just really sticking to like, this is how I do business. This is what we're going to do. And we'll see. We'll see if he can chip away at that list or it's hard for me to see him bumping up to a front office type of role. I just, it's, I, well, you can't fire him, right? I guess that that's kind of what I mean. I don't know if you can fire him. Can you? I don't, I don't think you can. I think you massage it in some way where I'm not sure you can fire go Belichick after everything that he's done. I'm pretty sure there has to be a conversation where you work on the messaging. Could he torch?

Could he torch the building on his way out and go? Yeah. I think you kind of move him up into a box and have it be that that's how you massage it going out the door. But I beyond the, you know, the play calling thing. And I'm a little bit more optimistic than you are just based on the ceiling, right? I think this could be one of the best defenses in the league. They have such good defensive of personnel top the bottom. They were really good on defense last year. They've got some young, intriguing pieces on that side of the ball.

And their offense, as long as they're not bottom of the barrel, as long as they're not one of the worst offenses in the league that they were last year, can Bill Bryan take them to competency? Can this be the 17th best offense in the league, combined with the second best defense? And can that win you 10 games if you get a couple breaks? Maybe. But the division is really, really good.

And I just don't think they have the same sort of ceiling than other teams in Division, too. And part of that is that they just haven't found the firepower on offense. They spent a first round pick on Nikiel Harrier. They spent a second round pick on Taekwon Thornton. They spent all that money on the tight ends that they signed in free agency. They just haven't been able to find those pieces. You look at the weapons that they have,

and we're talking about Juju Smith-Schuster, Devante Parker, Hunter, Henry, still. They just lack so much juice at those spots. And that's what's going to hold them back. And I think that's part of the reason that you see kind of a gap between them and the other teams in the AFC is that their firepower just looks so much different. And that's the world that they now live in. All right. Speaking of AFC teams and AFC potential contenders, I have two that I think are kind of in a similar position coming into this year.

And that's Brandon Staley of the Chargers and Kevin Stefansky's head coach of the Browns. I think both of these guys kind of underwent a sort of similar offseason. You know, the Chargers made the playoffs last year. The Browns didn't. But both of those guys came into the offseason and fired the coordinator on the other side of the ball. This is a familiar playbook for teams around the league. You know, that's one of those things you have to do when you're, falling short of expectations.

The Brown's defense vastly underachieved the last couple of years, considering some of the talent that they have. And Ken Stefansky said, all right, Joe Woods, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. But we're going to move on. We're going to hire Jim Schwartz. Brandon Staley had Joe Lombardi as his offensive coordinator for the last two years. The offense for the charges was actually pretty good.

The defense is what was under the low average for the last couple years. But, you know, Staley told Daniel Popper from The Athletic today in a piece where he wrote about Kellan Moore and Brandon Staley that just felt like there was another level they needed to reach. So they fire Joel and Barney. They hire Kell and Moore. And now we're at a place with both of those teams where, all right, if that's not it, then you get to the end of the year and you fall short of the playoffs, you underachieve or are disappointments in the playoffs.

If you do eventually get there, then what happens? And I think both of these guys are in pretty similar situations as we get toward the season. Yeah, I mean, those are the moves that you make you. I mean, you're exactly right that you switch coordinators when it's not necessarily when you're just trying to save your job. But you're not going to fire yourself. It's part of it. And if you're the guy who calls the plays on that other side of the ball.

But yeah, you run out of scapegoats pretty quickly. And, you know, I, the Chargers defense to me last year was really, really disappointing because, you know, I think there were some games, like standalone games. You know, I think about the game that they played against the dolphins, for example, where you were like, that's why you have Brandon Staley. because when you want somebody to like come up with a one-off game plan, shut down a specific scheme, like that guy can game plan like just about nobody else in the NFL. But that last year was the chance where we could say, okay, he's going to kind of build the defensive roster that he wants.

His first year, it was kind of not all of his guys. Year two, he was able to kind of make some moves. They got to sign a lot of guys in free agency. They made the Cleo Mac trade. So it was more like building this defense in his vision. and they fell short in a lot of the same ways that they had before. Obviously not having Joey Bosa for the majority of the year. That's going to drastically impact your defense.

Jayce Jackson got hurt too, but he wasn't playing well before he got hurt. Yeah. So, you know, I just think that, you know, those are two teams that you're kind of out of, out of excuses. And the AFC is going to be a freaking gauntlet. And there's not going to be any time to just, like, feel your way through this. And let's see if the Kellyn Moore thing is going to work. And it might take some time.

No, there is no time. There's going to be no, you know, easing into anything in the AFC. And so I think those are two really, really, really good choices. The Brown situation is interesting and it's all, it's still really weird to talk about. And I think a lot of us in NFL media are having, well, I'm grappling with it. I don't know if all my colleagues are of like exactly how to just like keep like talking about the Browns as an offense and Deshaun Watson as a football player and like analyzing him. when we had this really small sample size from last year, everything that's still going on.

I mean, he still is an active lawsuit. It's really hard to talk about and to just kind of figure out the right way to say it. But the fact is, is that once he came back last year, they were bad. He was bad.

They were a bad offense. They were one of the best five offenses, one of the best five, six efficient offenses in the league when Djigobi Perci was the quarterback last year. They finished eighth, and in part because of how bad Deshawn Watson was down the stretch with a couple of real stinkers of games.

And here's why I think that it's, important to talk about Deshaun Watson in this context. The Browns can't fire Deshawn Watson. DeShon Watson has a fully guaranteed contract. If the offense falls short again and he fall short of expectations again, the guy calling the offense and the guy in charge of getting this thing steered in the right direction, they can fire him. And I think that's the difference here. So that's a consideration. And another thing is the owners make these decisions. The owners are the ones that have ultimately pulled the trigger here. And if you look at the amount of resources both of these teams have spent over the last couple years, the Browns have spent more cash than any

team in the league this season on their roster. They converted all of the Sean Watson's base salary into a signing bonus, and they've spent that money. They went out and got to Alvin Tomlinson. They traded for Amari Cooper last year. They signed to Darius Smith. They've spent so much on this roster because they're in win now mode. You think about all the win now moves that they've made over the last two years. There's an urgency there. Jimmy Haslam yesterday, and they told Jerry Epstein from Yahoo, I said, the expectation, I'm not saying the expectation, aren't high. I'm just not going to draw a line for you as to where they are. They are high. That's all you need to know. The owner coming out and saying that explicitly on the second day of training camp. So the amount of cash they have spent on the roster and the amount of win now moves that they've made, there is absolutely urgency there. And again, you cannot fire to Sean Watson if he plays poorly again, but you can move on from the head coach. And I think the head coach knows that those expectations are in place. And then you look resource-wise at what the Chargers did. The Chargers historically don't throw a lot of money around. They were seventh in cash spending in 2022. They spent $140 million in cash on their defense last off season. That was number

one in the league by far. Only three other teams in the league were above $125 million. So that's the gap between the chargers and everybody else. And this year, they're spending $122 million against the cap on their defense. It's 54% of their salary cap. That's the highest in the league and no other team is above 52%. So like you alluded to, this defense and this team in general has been made in Brandon Staley's image. And at a certain point, the results need to be there on defense and then on offense after the change that you made at the coordinator. And I think that everyone understands that.

You know, I'm in L.A. right now. I don't think anyone overhearing what I'm saying would be surprised by the tone or the subject matter because I think that's exactly what the feeling is around this team right now. All right. You're ready to move on to my next guy. Let's get your next guy or guys. All right. I'm going to lump two guys together.

We just lump two guys together. We're kind of cheating with this list here, right? that's all right. So I've got the two quarterbacks who did get paid this off season. And that's Jalen Hertz and Lamar Jackson. I'm lumping together because they did get just get paid this year. But I think both of them are in really, really interesting positions this year. Jalen Hertz, because this time last year, I'd love to go back and just relisten to

everything that we were saying about Jalen Hertz, like the first or the last week of July. I would guarantee you he was on this show last year for the exact reason that you're talking about. is because he had so much on the line. Yeah, I mean, because they were, the Eagles were actively trying to get a lot of other quarterbacks, you know, they were in that Russell Wilson sweepstakes that offseason and so many questions about like, is this going to be our guy? And to his credit, he answered like every single one of those questions, right? I mean, what he did last year.

Even better than you could have imagined. Oh, absolutely. Exceeded every single expectation. I think that even the most optimistic Jalen Hertz fan. Like, I'm sure if you gave Howie Roseman true serum. like what we got out of Jalen Hertz in 2022 was better than anybody could have imagined. But now he's being paid like a franchise quarterback

and they are now kind of building this team around him. They brought back some of these old guys, these guys that are all coming back for their 10th year or whatever. This is Jalen Hertz's team now, right? I mean, they have built this roster around him. He's getting paid like a franchise quarterback. You know, new offensive coordinator. There's going to be changes on defense and everything.

But like, I'm just so fascinated at the change where you go from being a guy a year ago who there were almost no expectations, right? Like, best case scenario was that this guy would be a competent to good NFL starter. Nobody could imagine that he was going to be MVP candidate in Super Bowl, you know, basically a defensive holding play away from winning the Super Bowl. So I just think that the stakes for this guy now with a team that is built to win a Super Bowl in a wide open NFC, What does he do for that second act? You know, there's the, if there's any regression, and it'd be understandable if there is regression, right? The rest of the NFL is probably in the NFC, especially, spent a lot of time probably trying to figure out how do we stop that offense. How do we stop him?

So I'm just, I just think it's such an interesting spot for who he's going to be and now who the Eagles are going to be around him. What I think is at stake for him and Lamar Jackson is not the same as some of the other guys that we're going to talk about here. It's not their futures. You know, these guys already got paid. They're going to be the quarterbacks of their respective teams for the next few years. What's at stake for Jalen Hertz and Lamar Jackson is they're standing among quarterbacks in the league. You know, Jalen Hertz, what's at stake this year is him elevating himself to be one of the best four or five quarterbacks in the NFL and every single list that you look at in the offseason. I think that a lot of people, we'd rank quarterbacks on this show.

Everyone else did theirs this offseason. ESPN, I think he was outside the top seven, you know, something like that. And that shit doesn't matter really. But I think it's interesting when you think about the perspective and the reputation that these guys have. So by the end of the year, are we looking at each of these guys and saying, this is one of the best non-Mahom's quarterbacks in football? Or are they kind of lingering somewhere there around the back half of the top 10 because they fell short of what we put on them this year? And with Lamar, I think that part of those expectations that we have for 2022 or 2023 are rooted in Todd Monkin and some of the changes that they've made. and the theoretical ceiling that now comes with what that offense might look like.

Yeah, I'm just, I'm excited to see him. I mean, last year there was just so many, like, so many, like dark clouds, right? Over his season, there was, he was dealing with injuries. There was all the weird stuff that happened at the end of the year where he wasn't playing. Was he hurt? How badly was he hurt? Is he going to games? Is he not even at the stadium?

There was just all that stuff, everything going on with the contract. And now we can put all, all of that stuff now into the past and look at, okay, well, what is this version of Lamar Jackson going to be? because, and I'm sure I've said this on the show multiple times, when you are in a stadium with Lamar Jackson, like he is just so captivating. Like there is nobody else like him in the NFL. Like he is one of the few players I've ever seen who like will take your breath away

because you just watch him and you go, I have never seen anybody do that on a football field before. And I want that guy back. I want that guy back for 17 games. I want to have that feeling again of look at this guy taking over the NFL. And he now has the contract. He has, in theory, an offensive coordinator who will hopefully design an offense that's a little bit better suited for him. We'll let him show off his skills.

Hopefully this wide receiver core is a little bit better. So I just, I think he's at a really, really pivotal moment in his career. And too often when we're talking about this quarterback in balance between the AFC and the NFC and the NFC, he's almost the guy that kind of gets like forgotten almost. You know, we're racing through Mahomes and Allen and Burrow and Herbert. And then it's like, oh, yeah, the former league MVP. Lamar Jackson is there too. So I just, I just, I was so excited to watch. Where do they belong in that conversation? That's what's at stake for them this season. Is it their place at the table when

we're discussing those quarterbacks? And I think that the way that J-1 Hertz played last year, if he can continue to play that way, he probably deserves, does deserve to be there. And Lamar, we've seen the heights that he can reach. So I think that's a good one. I wouldn't have thought of them, but I think if we're thinking about stakes in a slightly different way and framing in a slightly different way, you could put both of them on there. All right, my next one was going to be Mike McCarthy, but I think everyone is just talking about Mike McCarthy potentially getting fired this year. And let's be clear, he probably should be a part of this conversation. But he put this all in himself, right? I mean, he put this pressure on himself. Exactly. When we're

talking about the same thing that we discussed to a certain extent with what Brands Daly did with Kellan Moore ironically and what Stefanski did with Joe Woods. When you make a change on your staff and you say, all right, this guy that was successful in Kellan Moore's situation, I'm going to be the one now who's overseeing this offense, I'm going to dictate how this is going to go. That's putting a bullseye right on your back. And that's what Mike McCarthy has done. They were fourth in points per game last year. They were first in 2021.

They were fifth last season in EPA per play when DAC was on the field. And Mike McCarthy said, you know what? I'm good. It's going to be me and Brod and Schottenheimer. We're going to figure this thing out. And there's a lot of risk that comes with that. But I honestly want to pivot the conversation a little bit and the focus a little bit to Jerry Jones more specifically.

Okay. Jerry Jones is 80. This feels like a very important season for the Cowboys. Not long before we started recording the show, they gave Trayvon Diggs a five-year, $97 million extension that is going to make him one of the highest paid corners in the league. Stephen Jones, I believe, on day one of training camp, was talking about other guys that might be in line for contracts.

He mentioned C.D. Lam's name, who's going into the final year of his deal next year, and he will be looking to get paid. Terrence Steel is going to be a free agent. They mentioned his name as well. Tyron Smith is no longer going to be under contract next year, so they don't have another tackle even if they're moving Tyler Smith to one of those spots. So do you have to pay Terrence deal?

Zach Martin is going to be 33 years old. The Cowboys have drafted very, very well for a while now. But eventually those hot streaks run out. Ask any GM, ask any front office in the NFL that's had a really good run of luck in the draft. That's hard to sustain. So a lot of this cheap talent that they've recruited over the last several years, three, four, five, six years, a lot of those guys are going to get expensive here very quickly. And maintaining this roster is going to get more difficult.

So this year, this team that they have, and Jerry said yesterday, there is real urgency here. And I think that there should be because I think that they have a real shot with this group. And if they fall short, what does that mean for an 80-year-old Jerry Jones and his ability to put together a championship caliber roster in his few final years as an owner? So I think he has a ton at stake with this version of the Dallas Cowboys. because of what this window looks like. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of, you know, you talk about, you know, there is this window. And because the NFC is, we just started with the Eagles, right? The NFC is wide open.

I think there's three teams that are kind of at the top there, Eagles, Niners, Cowboys. I think there's a couple of other teams that would like to think they're in that mix to Giants, Vikings, Seahawks. There's probably a handful of them. But it's so interesting to think about the, like, the future or this, you know, the immediate future for the Cowboys. and all the ways that this could play out and the ways that it could go really well, that DAC has the type of season that we all think is possible for him,

if everything goes right for him, injuries, all of those type of things. But, like, you know, Mike McCarthy not, you know, Mike McCarthy kind of reverting to like old, boring Mike McCarthy, like all the ways that this could go wrong. And then what does Jerry do? And, you know, does he keep Mike McCarthy around? Does he want to start over?

If he does make a new hire, who would he hire? I mean, he's only had a couple coaching searches. Hasn't been the most inspired hiring. Last time, is it a Dan Quinn situation? I don't know. I just think he's an interesting guy to put there because, you know, he's a lot of times when we're talking about stakeholders, it's like guys who could get fired or lose their jobs. And that's not going to happen to Jerry Jones, right?

I mean, that's not going to happen. But when we're talking about legacy and windows and time to win and the way that we view your place in the league, there's no question about his impact on the NFL. But it's time for him to win something, right? That's absolutely right. I mean, think about it. The last time this team went to an NFC championship game of Super Bowl was 25 years ago. It's been a long time.

And I think a lot of Jerry Jones's reputation over the last two decades has been of someone that's done as much damage to the Cowboys' Super Bowl chances and some of the frivolent moves that they've made as he's done in a positive way. And I think that him have his lasting image as an NFL owner being holding that Lombardi trophy in his 80s and that being one of the last kind of pictures we have of Jerry Jones as his tenure ends with this franchise, I think changes his legacy changes the way that he's remembered compared to how it is right now. And I think he probably knows that. And I think that's why there is maybe a little bit more urgency than there might have been in years past.

All right. Who's your next one? All right. I'm going to go with a guy who's been talked a lot about on this feed. So I don't know how much time we have to spend going into everything about him. But with the news that came out today that Brock Purdy has been cleared for training camp and has no like physical restrictions beyond a pitch count, this is such an interesting year for Kyle Shanahan for what his offense is going to look like, what his quarterback development model is going to look like, who the Niners are going to be with a new defensive coordinator. So I'm putting Kyle Shanahan as like most at stake this year because this is such a interesting kind of potential pivot point for him and this quarterback odyssey, like the journey

to figure out who his quarterback is going to be, what his ideal quarterback looks like. I'm just, I'm just really fascinated about what's going to go on there at that position and what it's going to mean for him kind of in his place is a head coach and a play caller. And is this finally the year that, you know, they've been so close. They've been so close so many times that it's been derailed by one thing or another, whether it's, you know, Jimmy Garoppolo's kind of hitting him. his ceiling at the worst times, whether it was Brock Purdy's run ending in the NFC championship game last year, although I still think the Eagles probably would have won that game in with

Brock Purdy had played the whole game last year. But I just think Kyle Shanahan is at such a fascinating point. I don't think he's a guy who's in danger of losing his job, but he is at a really, really, really fascinating point right now. And I have him firmly on that list of most interesting stakeholders for this season. Last year, Damico Ryans was still the defensive coordinator. There was an expectation that they would be able to carry over the defensive success that they had had under Robert Salon, essentially over the last several years in San Francisco. Steve Wilkes coming in there, I think there's more of a question about whether this defense

is going to be able to play at a championship level consistently. A bigger question that it's been since this team got to the Super Bowl in 2019, since this version of the Niners kind of crystallized. And I think that puts even more onto Kalsha-Nahan's plate. And think about what we were discussing last summer at this time. It was how much was on Kyle Shanan because of how much his staff had turned over. All the guys that were his lieutenants for so long were no longer around for him to bounce things off of. And this year, it happened again.

Bobby Sloick was the passing game coordinator last year and was kind of his right-hand guy. And now he's the offensive coordinator in Houston. So now even the one person that had spent multiple years on that Niners staff that could kind of be a confidant and be a partner in how they devise. lies that offense, even he's gone now. Now the offensive staff is two Kubex, Chris Furster, who's still been there as the offensive coordinator, but guys on the actual schematic

passing side of it, that has been completely turned over. So yet again, it's asking so much of Kyle Shanahan to kind of be the architect and the brainchild of that offense compared to what it looked like in years past. He is clearly up to the challenge. He was up to it last year, but it still feels like with

D'emico Ryan's leaving and again, more attrition happening on that staff, with each consecutive year more and more gets placed on Kyle Shanahan to keep the 49ers at that kind of peak and at that place in the pecking order in the NFC. Yeah, I mean, this time last year, it was all about Trey Lance. And now he's like an afterthought, which is just, which is just really wild. So it's made me spend a lot of time thinking about like, who is a Shanahan quarterback? What does a Shanahan quarterback look like? What does Kyle Shanahan even want in a quarterback? I think the answer is Brock Purdy and not Trey Lentz. I think it's somebody who is going to get rid of the ball quickly and

get rid of the ball to the guy I tell him to get rid of the ball to, which is fascinating. So speaking of young quarterbacks drafted in 2021, my next guy on the list here is Justin Fields. We're talking about Jaylen Hertz and where he was at on July 25th of last year. I think it's pretty similar to where Justin Fields is right now. The Eagles had two first round picks in this year's draft, and we all knew that. And as we were thinking about the expectations that have been kind of heaped onto J. J.1 Hertz and the pressure. That's where Justin Fields is now.

Bears have two first round picks heading into next season. This regime and Ryan Poles did not draft Justin Fields. This team, this front office, use a lot of their considerable resources this offseason to surround Justin Fields with the right level of talent to get a sense of who he is by the end of this season. They traded for DJ Moore. They spent a top 10 pick on Darnell Wright.

They sign Nate Davidson Free Agency. They use the 32nd overall pick in this year's draft to trade for Trace Claypool. This is it. They've done everything they could to make sure by the end of this year, there are no more excuses personnel-wise for what sort of performance they get out of Justin Fields. And so here we go. I think that they want an answer by season's end. And I think the stakes for Justin Fields are what that answer looks like. Is he going to be the guy that's the future franchise

quarterback in Chicago for a very long time? Or is he going to be a guy that they're looking to replace as soon as next spring? And I think both of those realities and both of those timelines are very much in play. Yeah, I think it's really, I think it's a really fascinating discussion because, you know, we had it a million times leading up to the draft. What do they want? Who are they going to build around? What is this franchise going to look like? I'm excited about Justin Fields.

Is that, is that weird? Is that bad? I feel like I can sew down on the bears for a long time. I think that's a very human reaction. I think it's just hard for me to get there because the amount of emotional baggage I would have to carry up that hill. Yeah, I just,

I think it's going to be really interesting. And we, you know, we keep talking, right? This all comes back to like, you're standing as a quarterback. and we do all these rankings and they hate them, but we love them and we know they're paying attention to them. Wasn't it like the NFL 100 just started and like Justin Fields kind of like squeaked in? He was like in the 80s, high 80s or something. Which like he was ahead of Trevor Lawrence, right? I think that's about how exciting Justin Fields was last year.

I think that says more about the people doing the voting and what they valued than it does about Justin Fields's actual standing. Yeah. Or there were like a lot of defensive players who like just like just like. like gave up a 90-yard run to him or something. We're like, oh, yeah, that dude's good. He's hard to game plan for. I think that's exactly right. Justin Fields had a lot of splashy plays last year,

and I think that helps on a list like that. But I think when the Bears were mentioned making this decision. Some guys who picked up Justin Fields and saved their seasons fantasy football. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think a lot of guys are like, oh, man, Justin Fields was fun last year. I'll put him on here. I don't think Ryan Poles is taking into account the NFL 100 when he's

going to make this decision next off season. So I think there's a lot at stake for Justin Fields. And the one other quarterback, I kind of wanted to sneak in here. It's not one-to-one comparison. I think it's actually very far from one-to-one comparison. But Tua Tua is heading into the final year of his deal. Next year, in 2024, he's going to be playing on his fifth-year option. If he has a crazy season this year where he stays fully healthy, you know, if they win the

AFC East, maybe they win the AFC. Like, there's a ton of talent on the dolphins. And that reality, I don't think, is that far off. He could be in for a huge experience. extension that prevents him from being a lame duck quarterback heading into 2024. It's not crazy for me to imagine that. But there's also a chance that he gets hurt again.

And then the dolphins are sitting here next offseason saying, we've got all this talent on the roster. We have to do what we can to maximize this. And then he's fighting to even be their starting quarterback next year. So him getting paid $45 million a year or him not being the dolphin starter, I think both of those things are potential realities. and that is about as much you could have in terms of determining stakes before a season starts for one single player. There's a chance that even if he had that season, that magical season, they'd be comfortable kind of rolling into that final year of his deal, being willing to use the franchise tag just because of his injury history.

But I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up having a great, great year and he earns himself a lot of money. All right. So I tried really hard to put somebody like a defensive player or a defensive coordinator on this list. I was trying really, really hard, I promise. Like, I was going through, I was thinking really hard about Aaron Donald. I think I might even texted you, Aaron Donald about this because, like, the Rams are at such a weird place. You're going to have the best player with pure player in football and potentially one of the worst teams in the NFL, a guy who's considered retirement very seriously in recent years. What motivates him? What's he going to look like?

And then I was like, I got to stop over thinking this. And it's both the Packers and Aaron Rogers have to be on this list. And I've been going back and forth if it's like, should it just be Rogers? Should it just be Brian Gutakunst? Is it Jordan Love? But I think like we kind of just have to lump them all together because their fates are going to be so intertwined, right?

Brian Goonkins is a great one. I'm kind of bummed. I didn't think of it. Because he just, you know, I mean, they, they kind of walked into this, right? I mean, he made this decision of saying, we're going to move on into this next phase. Also put themselves in a really weird,

challenging financial situation by giving Rogers the contract last year that they gave him that kind of set all of this stuff in motion where you had to make a choice this year. You couldn't really move forward with both Rogers and Jordan Love in 2023 and really kind of just spurred this whole thing on and all of the like he didn't answer our calls or I could only face time him and we can't get all. All of that stuff that went on is going to just percolate on, you know, behind the scenes for everything that happens this year. And we're going to talk a little bit more about Broncos here in just a second. Spoiler, we wouldn't have a podcast together without talking about the Broncos a little bit. But like, I do look at it through the lens of like what

happened in Denver last year and like who won the trade and, you know, people in Green Bay are they celebrating Rogers? Are they booing Rogers? You know, who's going to win this whole thing? So I just, I'm lumping them all together and, you know, that entire Packers organization has, I think, a lot at stake is they just walk into this like wilderness, this quarterback will. wilderness that they've never been in or they haven't been in for 30 years, just not knowing if this guy is going to be good or not with Jordan Love. You know, and then Rogers kind of at this point where he's got a lot to prove, I think personally. You know, he's in a new place. He's in a new city, a new media market. He's going to be all over television, whether he likes it or not. And please,

hard knocks, show us the good shit. Don't give in to Rogers and edit out all the good stuff. shows the good stuff, but I'm just throwing all of them in there because I just think they all are going to be, they're going to be some of the people and the teams that define this season for good or bad. Think about what your experience could be this season if you're Brian Kunkunkunst. If Aaron Rogers is terrible, okay, or if he even has a mediocre season, and Jordan Love is great. Think about what you are to the people of Wisconsin on that timeline.

Now imagine the other side, where Rogers is an MVP candidate again. again and Jordan Love plays terribly. Those are two very different experiences if you're the Packers' GM, and I think both of them are on the table. So that's why I think he's a fantastic entry into this list. Because they're like a contender. I mean, they should be in the mix, in the NFC, right? And we talk about the NFC and having no favorites.

I think they could be if he's good. They have a lot of talent. You know, they're very young on offense. I think that that's my only concern is that even at their past catching spots, they're very, very young. So if the defense is really good because they have all that talent on that side of the ball and it finally clicks for them, I think that they could be interesting. I just feel like even if love is good that there's so much uncertainty with some of the big pieces on that offense. How good is Christian Watson in year two? What do they get from Romeo does? What do they get from the young tight ends? So again, there's a timeline there where the Packers are right in the mix in the NFC if the quarterback plays really well. But I think that there's a lot of uncertainty with that situation. I did have one defensive player. Okay. What about Chase Young? Chase Young is hitting free agency next year.

They declined his fifth year option. Chase Young is going to be 25 years old heading into the 2024 season. If Chase Young is somehow like a 10-sac guy this year, if he's healthy and he plays really well, he's 25 and a guy with that pedigree and those sort of physical tools, what does he get in free agency if he gets 10 sacks? Alex Highsmith just got 17 million a year from the Steelers. That's what Chandler Jones got per year. in free agency. Randy Gregory got $14 million a year if they're not having a great track record

with Dallas and a huge backlog of production. So Chase Young having a really good season and Chase Young having a forgettable season could be the difference in him getting $30 million guaranteed on a multi-year extension, you know, the Hassan Reddit contract, the Trey Hendrickson contract, whichever one you want to point to, or him being on a one-year prove-it deal that pays him a third of that. And that's a lot at stake, $15, $20 million in one single offseason. So I wanted to throw him on there because of all of the guys hitting free agency next year, I just think that he's in the biggest position to really cash in if things go well. But I think there's so many questions about what might be standing in the way of that.

Yeah. And I think, you know, to look even more broadly at like Washington, too, they're going to be in a really, really interesting spot next offseason. Sam how? Because, yeah, quarterback. Who's going to be your quarterback? I think there's probably a lot of people in that. building from front office all the way down that are wondering, well, I have a job here,

what is the future of this organization going to look like? It hasn't been a destination for free agents for a long time. They've had a really hard time getting guys to sign there. They not even to the point, like they haven't had to do the Jacksonville thing where they just overpay people. It's just like they're not, they're just like not getting good free agents. You know, would they want to spend a lot of money, the new ownership? And is Chase Young a guy they would want to spend money on to keep or do you start fresh new you know new everything start fresh so they're going to be a really interesting you can probably mention Ron Rivera here too yeah he may be coaching for his job and for his future with that organization so I think there's just a lot of

uncertainty there but he was the guy that jumped out to me who's your next one um all right so I think that's my last let's get last guy on the list I think we're here right so um let's talk about russle wilson right and I don't want to really want to talk about I don't I don't really want to talk about like let's fix Russell Wilson what is Russell Wilson's offense going to look like Like, there is nobody in the league whose, like, personality and, like, reputation took a bigger hit last year than Russell Wilson. So I just want to see if, like, this guy, I don't even want to think, like, can he be cool again? But can he just get back to the point where he's no longer, like, the NFL's punching bag? Can he play well enough where we don't care if he's cool?

I think that is a more important question of whether he could be cool again. Because he's never going to be cool. And that's fine. I don't think he wants, like, frankly, I don't think he really wants. to be cool. That's okay. Right? Like, I mean, but I was driving around the other day here in Denver, and there was like an entire segment about like the future disc tracks versus the Russell Wilson Instagram posts or the hashtag dad life. And it's like it's fascinating to me, but also really weird. And I just, you know, it got to the point last year. It was just like everybody was piling on him and all the stories and the rumors of the, you know, the exposés and, you know, Pete Carroll dunking on him. and in the building trainers, a million different things. Bathrooms.

Touchdown past bathroom counters. But I mean, his reputation took just like such a massive hit last year that I'm just, I think this guy like this time a year ago. I don't want to keep coming back. He coming back to everything. What were we saying a year ago? But it's important.

It's important to think about it in those terms. But we would like, you know, there was all this stuff like future Hall of Fame quarterback Russell Wilson. Are those words that like are. uttered together anymore. No, right? I mean, I thought it was maybe a little, you know, this just assumption that he would be a whole, you know, he was on this like Hall of Fame trajectory, but like we were talking about Super Bowls and competing with Mahomes and AFC championship games and, you know, being on that type of all-time great trajectory. And by a year later, it was like,

will this guy get benched for Jarrett Stidham by week seven? And he's the cornyest dude in the NFL. and like nobody needs like a reputational upgrade, you know, a makeover more than than Russell Wilson does right now. I don't think you could have this list with that for those exact reasons. There is so much hanging in the balance, the way we talk about him, the way that we think about him. Do the Broncos want to try to see if they can get out of that deal? If he's bad enough, do they pull the ripcord and say, we'll eat the dead money.

We don't give a shit. Or does he make every dollar of that over the next couple years because he's a guy worth investing in again? And thinking about it in the terms of, okay, what were we talking about a year ago at this time? I was at Broncos camp last year. I was there on one of the first days of training camp. The tone in that place, the feeling, the vibes in the crowd, every single bit of optimism you could want surrounding an NFL franchise heading into the season. The feeling that we have pulled ourselves out of the quarterback wilderness.

We are no longer in quarterback Siberia because we have found Russell Wilson. I remember talking to somebody there with the organization and just asking them, is there anything you're like worried about with this? Was there anything that you thought was a potential downside to the deal? And they were like, no, not really. You know, I felt we feel really, really good about it. It's like, okay. Although that was, to be fair, it was before he got his contract. But you knew that it was coming. It was like a matter of when, not if that he was going to get paid. But then he got the deal right before the start of the regular season. And that kind of changed the complexion of it just really raised the stakes of like how long term all of that. this was going to be. And I think that's the one move that it was signing that deal at that time without really knowing kind of what was coming. But yeah, it's really interesting because, like, I've gone to, what, 15 years of Broncos camps, one year that there were no fans, actually a couple of years that there were no fans, because they were building, they have this big field house.

The years that they were building that brand new field house, you couldn't have fans in here and obviously 2020 because of the pandemic. But, you know, when it was rocking, the like, you know, the first 2012 when Peyton Mining first showed up, uh, the, right after the like Tebow mania season when there was the 2011 camp, but there was a ton of Tebo. I mean, that place was rocking. And it's not going to be like that this year.

They've limited attendance. They're saying it's the fire department's decision. But I think they're capping it at like 3,000 and capacity is generally like 7,000. So like it's going to feel very different. And there's no like, this team is making a Super Bowl. It's like this is Sean Payton's team. and we're going to see how it goes. And I just, for Russell Wilson's sake,

I just hope he doesn't have to be the butt of like every NFL joke and meme. But also I would like him to help himself, right? Like, help us help you, Russell Wilson. Don't tell us about doing your knee raises in the aisles of the airplane. No more subway ads. Yeah. Maybe drop the let's ride. That has not been out here.

I have not seen a let's ride in a while. Talking about corny quarterbacks, I've got a couple more that I want to hit right now. What about Kirk Cousins? Kirk Cousins is not under contract for next year. The Vikings did not extend him. So what is Kurt Cousins playing for this year? He'll be 36 next year. So if he's a free agent heading into next spring, what does he get if he plays well?

If he's a high-end quarterback or a top half of the league quarterback next season, which he has been for the last several years, even if you think Kirk Cousins gives you a defined ceiling, Kirk Cousins has been an above-average quarterback for a very long time. If you're a team that needs that sort of quarterback play, what would you give a Kirk Cousins heading into his age 36 season? You know, what sort of seats are there after the season is over? Do the Vikings have one? Do they think, you know, it's worth just kind of rolling with Kirk and continuing this?

Or do they say it's time for us to turn the page? I think the latter is probably what they're looking toward, but as he play well enough that he forces their hand, if that to a timeline that we talked about where he gets hurt again, And the dolphins are like, we just need somebody who can be a point guard of this thing. We have so much talent. All we need is consistent quarterback play. That's what Kirk Cousins is.

Kirk Cousins has not gotten hurt when he's been a starter. He's been on the field for as long as he's had those jobs. So the Vikings or the dolphins look at the landscape and say, all we need is average to slightly above average quarterback play and we're a Super Bowl contender. Is Tampa in a place where the rest of their roster is so good that they're looking to microwave? quarterback situation and do they see him as a potential option to do that? There aren't that many seats. When the music stops, there are so many teams that have committed to quarterbacks or

have a young quarterback that I think the options are fairly limited. But if he plays really, really well this year and the Vikings decide to move on, does he earn a $30 million a year starting job for one more contract? And a guy, I think, is in a slightly similar spot. What happens with Ryan Tanahill? They're almost the exact same age. Is there a spot for him next year if he plays very well? Does he have a lot? one more go of it as a start. Hypothetically, if Desmond Ritter isn't great for the Falcons, do, does Atlanta sit there and be like, you know what?

If we had a Ryan Tannenhill S quarterback with this supporting cast around him, we could be a contender right now. I don't know. But those are the sort of questions that I think would be beneficial and are the type of questions both of these guys want asked after this season is over. My question or my thing about Kirk that I think is interesting. And this is something that Jordan Rodriguez got into many, many, many layers. and really, really well in the series of the play callers was, like,

how deep the Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVey tentacles now go into the NFL and the guys that have come from that tree and now spread, they're in like half of the league, more than half of the league at this point. And if you go by the belief that I think is true that Kirk Cousins is kind of like the ideal, like if you were going to like build your AI quarterback for a Kyle Shanahan, type of offense. Those guys are all over the NFL. So if that guy is a free agent, Kirk Cousins is a free agent, there's going to be a lot of teams around the NFL who have their, you know, are part of that tree, that offensive scheme that would say, yep, I'll give that guy $30 million. And Kirk Cousins will continue his reign as like the most underrated NFL businessman

of the last decade. So both of those guys, I'm with you. Like let's say Rogers retires. Do the Jets look at Kirk Cousins as a potential option because they just say, we need somebody to play at this level. I think you get a level of certainty with Kirk Cousins, even if that certainty can be a little underwhelming at times. And I think there are teams who might be in a position where that is attractive to them. So I'm fascinated to see how that ends up going. I know the fun debate on the internet right now is like trying to figure out which quarterbacks are going to be on season two of the quarterback. I kind of want like season two of Kirk Cousins. I'm not sure if I'm good. I'm good. I've enjoyed my experience with.

Kirk, I think he's been, I think this has been good for him and good for the way people probably view him, but I think I'm okay. I would do year two of the homes, but I think I want a different. So who are your, who are your dream three? I think Burrow would be very fun. I just want to see, like, I think Burrow, Allen and like Lamar would be fun. Just like some of those younger guys that was at stake. So I think those would be interesting. But I think Burrow would be the one that I would be most excited about. It's just to kind of get a little bit deeper into, like, him, what makes him tick, his process, all that kind of stuff.

I just, my favorite thing about that series, not to just hijack this is that all three of the guys from the first season were like at such different places. And they obviously like, they lucked into getting the Super Bowl. Well, maybe maybe not lucked into. I'm sure Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning doesn't do anything by chance. Like, he knew what he was getting when he pitched this to Mahomes. But I really liked that look that we got three guys at different points of their career.

So I'd love to see like. Bryce Young or C.J. Stroud or somebody's going through something. Yeah, the rookies would actually be really good. But I don't think there's any way they'd let them do that, though. Or if there's like a second year guy or just like, you know, to get guys that are at three different, you know, three different stages would be, give us Mack Jones to bring this back to the beginning. Justin Fields said today, they asked him to do it and he just didn't, he didn't want to do it. Yeah. I didn't want to put that out. Yeah. Which I completely understand. I think that there's a lot of these guys who have so much at stake that they wouldn't want that added layer of pressure. into coming into this season. Yeah, I hope for like their sake

that they can kind of keep it secret during the season that like, because it seems like a lot of the footage that they got was like NFL film stuff. So like the crews that are already around. And then the other stuff was kind of done in private, like in the privacy of their homes or going to their charity events so that it wouldn't become intrusive. And we know if we know anything about Peyton Manning is he's not going to be,

he's not going to do anything that would make the quarterbacks uncomfortable. Like he respects that fraternity too much. but I'm fascinated. A bunch of these guys, I'd love Jalen Hertz. I think he's so interesting off the field. I would love a season of Jalen Hertz in that role. I've got one more collection of guys that I wanted to mention before we get out of here. What about all the running backs?

Sequin, who signed one-year extension today that happened shortly before we started recording, essentially this franchise tag with a $1 million bonus and a few more incentives. So not exactly, you know, changing the context or the framing of the conversation we've been having recently. Josh Jacobs has not reported to camp. Tony Pollard's on the franchise tag. And guess what? Derek Henry's a free agent heading into next year. So if these guys all have huge seasons or if one of them does or if a couple of them do,

what does their free agency potentially look like? You know, can they get a multi-year deal or, you know, do they get tagged again? You know, if you make $22 million over a two-year stretch guaranteed if you're Tony Pollard, it's a pretty good chunk of change. So I think that with all these guys on the tag or hitting free agency, they're playing for a lot heading into next year because we could be looking at stopgap deals for them that are five million bucks or are we talking about the franchise tag or more are they making top of the market running back money so that to me is a lot at stake for that entire collection of players

yeah i mean i know i know you and courtney talked about this earlier earlier in the week um Courtney cronin about kind of this running back market and like what's at stake for ezekiel elliott and dalvin cook and lennon for net and some of these veteran guys that are you know still out there um i'm just afraid that you know we spent so much time over the last week or so talking about this position and the running backs tweeting and then mobilizing and having Zoom calls. And here we are now really on the verge of training camp where most teams either reported today or reporting tomorrow, you know, right now in this window. And like, I'm afraid they've lost this war. And it is really admirable that they are now

kind of trying to come together and like fight for the greater good and for themselves, but then also the running backs that are coming after them. I'm just afraid. it's like too little, too late. And that like the rest of us, like the rest of the collective NFL world kind of saw this snowball storming down the hill, becoming an avalanche. And it's not like they've lost it. Like I just don't know how they get it back and like one off good seasons. I just don't know how that kind of changes it. Because ultimately after all the bluster last week and the tweets and the Zoom calls, with the exception of Josh Jacobs, they're all there.

Austin Eclay's there. Saquan Barkley got a little, you know, $1 million. extra dollars and he's there. Like there's only so much that, you know, they can talk about all the collective action, but the NFL machine just kind of keeps on grinding up this position. And I don't know, I just don't know how it goes backwards. I don't think that a single good season or even a collection of good seasons from that entire group is going to change this conversation, change the discussion, change the landscape.

But I think it could get them one more payday, you know, one more decent payday, whether that's on a multi-year deal for any of them or again, just if that's on a $12 million franchise tag after getting $10 million this year. $12 million compared to $3 if you're on a one-year stopgap option because you either got hurt or had a shitty season. $9 million is a lot of stakes for me. I'll tell you that. Maybe not for these guys,

but I think that that's a decent amount to be playing for in a single season. All right, Lindsay Jones, that's all we got. Always really good to chat with you. Thank you so much for taking the time. Lovely to see you too. Great to see you. We will be doing this again very soon, I hope. For now, that is all we've got.

we will be back a little bit later this week. I will be back on Friday. Thursday is the return of football GM. Mike Sando is back from vacation. Him and Randy will be back right in time for the kickoff of training camp. So be sure to tap back in for football GM this week. A reminder, I tweeted about this, but just be on the lookout for it. Throughout training camp starting this Saturday, we will be releasing weekly Saturday training camp notebooks from our travels here. We'll be talking to writers from each of the stops. So this Saturday will be the West Coast. We're going to talk about the Rams.

We're going to talk about the Chargers, the Cowboys, with all of our writers from the athletic. There was going to be coming away every single Saturday through the end of August. Essentially, the entire amount of time I'm on the road. So be on the lookout for those in addition to all of the other normally scheduled athletic football show programming. Nate will be back next week, which we're very excited about. But until then, be on lookout for a football gym on Thursday and a new show from us on Friday.

That's all we got for now. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.