The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Who has the most at stake this week with Lindsay Jones + a Seattle Seahawks team visit with Michael-Shawn Dugar

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

The Athletic’s Lindsay Jones joins Robert Mays to break down all the news and notes across the league, including Ryan Fitzpatrick’s injury, OBJ’s status for Sunday and Urban Meyer’s comments regarding the USC job. Plus, who has the most at stake this week? They talk about what they are watching in Week 2 and the big questions they are looking to have answered. Then, Seahawks writer Michael-Shawn Dugar stops by to discuss how Seattle has revamped the offense and the biggest takeaways from their win over the Colts.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Football Show. The presenting sponsor for today's episode of The Athletic Football Show is Visa, a network working forever. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays. Very excited about today's show. We're doing our first writer team visit. Every week we're going to have one of the athletic team writers on. Just check in with what's going on with that team.

We are starting with the Seattle Seahawks and Michael Sean Duggar, obviously a very impressive win for Seattle on Sunday against the Colts. cannot wait to get to that. Before we do that, though, please to welcome my good friend, Lindsay Jones. Lindsay, how you doing? I'm great. I'm so psyched to be through week one where we're no longer speculating. So instead we're just overreacting. It's the best time of year. It's the best. So like last year, you were going to be joining us every single Thursday. I'm going to need you to carry us a little bit today. I'm going to apologize to people in advance. I am not feeling very well. If I sound terrible, then that's the reason. But we're going to try our best here. And we're going to big time overreaction theater.

So we're going to start these shows with the news. We record on Wednesday afternoons. Feels like a good time to kind of cobble all of the news bits together from the first few days of the week and check in with what's most important that's going on around the week. Let's start with something we have not talked about on the show yet, just because we've been focused on other things. Ryan Fitzpatrick, who I wrote about before the season, who a lot of people talked about a bunch before the season, as the quarterback of a potential playoff team. in Washington is now on IR for six to eight weeks with a hip subluxation. Is that how you pronounce that? I think it's subluxation, but you're close. But basically what that means is that his hip like popped out of the jaw or his thigh bone popped out of his pelvis and then went back in. It sounds extremely

painful. Like just try to imagine what that possibly would feel like. Well, my father had a hip replaced. And so I am actually very familiar with that process because it happened to him at one point. My dad got his hip or placed when he was only six years older than Ryan Fitzpatrick is now. So still pretty much. So he's out for six to eight weeks. This is, it's a tough blow for Washington because of the expectations they had coming into the year, what they wanted from him. But I will say this. I know that the offensive staff there, has a ton of faith in Taylor Heineke.

One of the reasons they were not willing to give Taylor Heineke that starting job and wanted to go get somebody like Ryan Fitzpatrick is body of work, track record, all that. But it's because Taylor Heineke's also had trouble staying on the field. Think about it. He was in for a half last year against the bucks and the playoffs, and then he gets dinged up. So that's part of the concern.

But just when he's healthy, I think they believe they can still run the offense they want to run. If you fast, if you rewind back a season, they looked significantly better offensively with Taylor Heineckee at quarterback than they did with either of the other guys in 2020. So I think their offense could still be okay, even if it's not the ideal version we had predicted coming into the year. Yeah, it's just changing kind of what they need to do to win. And week one was really disappointing from a defensive perspective for Washington. You know, that should be what is going to carry this team.

and they, it absolutely did not. It was a major letdown against the Chargers in week one. But now they're going to need a lot more out of that group. And we're going to get to a little bit more about Washington and the Thursday night game at the end of the show. So I don't want to, I don't want to spoil all of that right now. But you so I guess those are, get back on track game, man. If you're trying to get right, this is a good time to do it. Yeah.

So I guess my other kind of just like big picture thought, though, on losing Ryan Fitzpatrick is, you know, it is, there were a lot of big questions about what is Washington. going to do heading into the draft with where they were picking, what the kind of status of their quarterback room was, would they get involved in the quarterback sweepstakes in the draft? They chose not to. So they were kind of going all in on the Fitzpatrick. We're going to do this for a year. And now it kind of, what does that timeline look like? Where does that put them?

Are they probably were going to be in the quarterback market anyways next year? but it just really kind of enhances all of those big picture quarterback questions that they already had because I think they thought they were a playoff team and they maybe maybe they still could be and maybe Ryan Fitzpatrick will be back at some point later this season. You know, he is an IR but not necessarily season ending, but it just kind of really changes the expectations, I think externally for that team, not internally, but externally. I totally agree.

I think that they might be okay. Their offense will be able to function and they won't be able to hit the heights. I would assume that they could have with Fitzpatrick at his business. best, but I do think that they would be able to function at a much higher level than what we saw from them over the course of the 2020 season. All right, let's keep going here. Odell Beckham Jr. will not play on Sunday, according to Kevin Stefanski. It still seems like they're being very cautious with him coming back from that ACL.

I had heard going into week one that he might not be ready for week one. And that was surprising to me, just because it sounded like during the spring and into the summer, even if he wasn't practicing full go, he looked really good. but they are being pretty patient here with getting him back on the field. Yeah, I think the important thing to note out of kind of the news out of Cleveland on Wednesday when Kevin Stefanski made this announcement, he was very clear to point out that Odell Beckham did not have a setback. This wasn't like he was closer to playing last week and something changed.

He just really didn't like kind of the speculation and it maybe wasn't fair to Odell to kind of put all of that on him. So Kevin Stefansky just said it at the beginning of the week. Look, he's not going to be available yet. we're being cautious, we're bringing him along slowly. So that's where we're at. I know fantasy football players are getting anxious. They'd love to see him.

I think all of us who were just curious to see kind of what he's going to be able to bring to that offense this year, we all want to see him. But it's going to wait just a little bit longer. It does feel like Odo Beckham is going to be a much better real-life football player than fantasy football player this year. You mean, you think about whatever the timeline is for him to play, whatever the target shares are going to look like when he comes back, how they're going to divvy up the receiving responsibilities in that offense.

What role does he play? I think there were a lot of those kind of cloudy questions coming into the year even. And obviously somebody with his talent going where he was in fantasy draft is like the 28th receiver or whatever, that seems a little bit incongruous. But I think that all of those concerns are still there and he's not going to play for two weeks. Yeah. And you would maybe hope that you would maybe hope that they don't need him this week against the Texans. The one in no Texans, sure.

Listen, a Texan's team is a buzzsaw right now. All right. Speaking of ASC-style teams and speaking of the Texans, Urban Meyer says there is no chance that he will take the USC job. Okay. I don't really know how to respond to this. Like, all right, sounds good. So the quote was that there was no chance that he would be interested in the USC job

and that he was here and committed to building this program. I would encourage you to watch the clip of him saying this because the words sound better than they are when you actually see them coming out of his mouth. Didn't sound like a guy who was super committed to what he was saying. But look, it's going to come up until they hire somebody who is not Urban Meyer. You know, if they hire somebody else, then we can stop talking about this. But as long as that job is still open and as long as he looks really miserable coaching in the NFL, these questions are going to come up. it's really funny that we're a week into the season and them getting blown out by the Texans and the USC job coming open has led to, I don't know, this environment down there in Jacksonville. I would be really sad if I were a Jacks fan.

Just impossible to focus on any of the positives from what Trevor Lawrence looks like in week one. I know he threw a couple of picks, but Trevor Lawrence is very talented. He had some moments in week one. And all week, all you've had to hear about is Urban Meyer possibly going to USC. Look, Peyton Manning owns the rookie interception record. You know, there are some very good quarterbacks who've thrown a lot of picks earlier in their career. But I will say Urban Meyer has moved basically the top of my list of the guy that I want a sideline camera on at all times. I mean, it's him and I don't even know honestly.

That sounds so masochistic. That sounds miserable. I mean, that look on his face, he just seems like he's so unhappy all the time right now. He also got asked about that in his sideline demeanor and kind of his body language during his press conference today. And he was very quickly no commented and wanted to move that along because he probably knows. that he looks like he wants to be in Southern California. Or anywhere else. All right.

There's so much good stuff going on in Jacksonville. The injury bug already is hitting the San Francisco 49ers. Jason Verrett, torn ACL, done for the year. That had come out a couple of days ago. We had not yet discussed it. Rahim Moster now also done for the year, elected to undergo a procedure for chip cartilage in his knee. I mean, this is the same old story.

I'll say this, though. It's easy to kind of look at this and say, oh man the Niners you know terrible luck all these guys getting hurt again this isn't new you know relying on guys like Jason Verrett as your number one corner relying on Rahim moster is a huge part of your running game to guys who've struggled to stay healthy this is one of my biggest questions about the Niners coming into the year is they were banking on guys who have not really stayed on the field consistently and now we're a week into the season and they're facing the same old situations that Kyle Shanahan has had to endure essentially since he got there

Yeah, I mean, that was the risk with the way that this roster was constructed. So there's two sides of this. One, it's like, oh, the injury bug is back and are they snake bit? And there's just some really rotten luck. And we do, especially with Jason Barrett, who has been through so much in his career. I mean, he's a guy who, it was like a miracle that he was able to come back and play and play as well as he did last season because he has had so many season-ending injuries dating back to his times with the Chargers.

So it was just really, really devastating to kind of watch him get carted off. the field in week one, given everything that he's been through. But, but yeah, I mean, the margin, you know, I think they're a good roster, but their margin for error is getting smaller and smaller every time somebody gets hurt. And now you just have to start wondering, is this going to happen again? Because it happened early for the Niners last year, too, the Nick Bosa injury, the Solomon Thomas injury, we're in week two. Jimmy Garapolo and George Kittle were also both in September. So, you know, you just kind of, you don't have to hold your breath now if you're the 49ers. And they're going through this on the East Coast. They're

on one of those extended road trips. They're spending the week in West Virginia before they play the Eagles. So, you know, you kind of just have to, you know, hope that this is not the sign of something bad to come like it was last year. It's devastating for Jason Barrett. It was so fun to watch him healthy last year in the way that he played. But coming into the year, you know, we did the X factor for every team as part of the division previews. He was my X factor for the Niners. You know, could he stay healthy all year?

Could he be like a true number one corner on this team? And we're one week into the season. You've already removed that jenga piece. I mean, it's now you've got guys like Josh Norman there. You know, they sang Drake Kirkpatrick this week. I mean, we know that game. It's the veteran roulette or the veteran cornerback roulette that they're starting to play. That game is not fun.

I mean, it's really, really hard to piece that group together when you start having injuries this early in the season. And I just worry that it's a fragile situation for them on the back end. Do you think their running game is better able to handle losing a player? Totally. We've seen that happen before. I mean, you remove that piece and you have you have Elijah Mitchell. You have maybe Trey Sermon, which what a strange situation that is. I mean, I give Kyle Shannon the benefit of doubt in a lot of ways. But we've had so many moments where it's like, Tray Sermon is a guy you traded up for in the draft in the third round and he's not one of the three best running backs on your team. Brandon Ayyuk is surrending snaps to Trent Sherfield. I mean, I guess that might be injury related, but just the way. that they kind of elevate guys within that offense and kind of how they create the hierarchy at certain positions. It's like, all right. I guess so.

I mean, it tends to work out because they're so well coached on that side of the ball schematically. But it's kind of hard to keep track why and how some of these guys rise and fall in Kyle Shan's estimation within the roles that they deserve within the offense. All right. You want to get to one more team that's having some injury issues? Yeah, let's do it. All right. So here in my backyard in Denver, the Broncos.

goes are dealing with some big injuries. Ronald Darby, one of their free agent cornerbacks just went on IR. They think it's going to be the short-term IR, three to four weeks with a hamstring injury. But what this means is that Patrick Sertan Jr., their first-round pick, is going to be starting. He played 16 snaps in the opener, gave up a long touchdown pass to Sterling Shepard against the Giants, kind of admitted that he had kind of some bad technique on it. But he's going to be starting now. And they love him. They're really excited about him. But he's being thrust into a bigger role more quickly than the Broncos and Vic Fangio we're hoping. You'd assume that if there are two spots where this team can endure some injuries,

it's corner and receiver. And those are where they're doing. Two big injuries have happened. Jerry Judy officially went on IR. I think four to six weeks was the original timetable. I believe Vic Fangio said closer to six. Yeah. It's a high ankle.

I mean, you've got to be real careful. You kind of let that go as long as it's going to. You know, it's get healthy. You don't want to try that out before it gets all the way back because then that thing is going to linger. But Tim Patrick is a perfectly fine third receiver. They can survive on offense without Jerry Judy. And I think they can survive on defense without Ronald Darby, or at least that's the hope. And do you know who they elevated off the practice squad, which wide receiver?

No, it wasn't. Our dear friend, our dear friend, Kendall Hinton. Hall of Famer, Kendall Hinton, who is actually going to get to play a game at wide receiver instead of having to be forced into being the starting quarterback for the Denver Broncos. Good for him. Great day for Kendall Hinton. It's a great story. So on these Thursday shows, we're going to hit some of the same topics that we did last Thursday.

Obviously, we have the Friday 5 preview coming with Nate every single week. So we're not going to dig into as many specific matchups as we did last year. But we are going to take a step back and kind of look at some of the old. overarching storylines associated with the league. We're going to start with who has the most at stake this week. So coming out of week one, obviously, again, all caveats required about overreactions and all of that. But still, I feel like there's still a decent amount of guys who've got a lot on the line this

week. Who do you think has the most at stake in the NFL in week two, Lindsay? All right. Speaking of our dear friends, I'm putting the spotlight on Josh Allen this week. Because, look, this is a narrative-driven league. And there are very few players in the league, certainly quarterbacks who are under as much kind of narrative pressure is Josh Allen because of all of the discussions about could he build off of 2020? Would he regress was 2020 a fluke? Could he become an MVP candidate again this year?

And he wasn't terrible in week one, but he wasn't great. And we didn't see any steps forward out of him in week one. And look, he's under a lot of pressure and the bills are under a lot of pressure because they are O and one and they're playing the dolphins and they cannot afford. to go to 0 and 2, especially if the dolphins then were to move to 2 and 0, given what their big picture goals are. So, you know, I want to see a step forward from Josh Allen. I want to see kind of aggressive, fearless, accurate, smart, Josh Allen, the guy that we saw for the majority of last season, instead of a guy whose completion percentage was tiptoeing

back under 60% like he used to be in 2019 and 2018. team. I thought that the Steelers had a perfectly tailored game plan for how to attack them, right? I mean, last year, we talked about it on Sunday night show. They were the most blitz team in the NFL last season. The bills were. They saw more man coverage than the other team in the NFL last season. Something that I never really understood. By the end of last year, I didn't know why teams kept doing that to them.

I asked their coaches when I was in Buffalo. I was like, why do you think teams were coming after and bringing so much heat against you guys? And they didn't really have a good answer. It felt like by the time that season ended, that approach against Josh Allen, you had outdated information. Like your intel was bad. And to see the Steelers come into that game blitz one time and a lot of different funky, you know, simulated pressures.

They bring four from different places, but still having seven guys in coverage. And a lot of kind of zone, a lot of safe zone makes sense based on the way the bills played last year. Josh Allen had 19 empty attempts last week. Nobody else in the league had more than 12. So you can't block anybody. You only got five guys in protection the entire game. and there's nothing for you down the field and you're making him kind of create these

precision throws to the second and first level, it's a good way to play against the bills. I guess now, how do they respond? Like, how do you start to redefine what you want to be offensively if teams are going to approach you this way? A big question, though, are the dolphins going to approach them that way? Because that's not how the dolphins are built on defense. Yeah, I mean, the dolphins are very secondary heavy team. They're built on their coverage first.

pressure second. I mean, not to say that their front isn't good. I think their front is fine, but they don't have Cam Hayward and T.J. Watt on the front end. And they also don't have Minkham Fitzpatrick on the end. They could have. They could have had Minkin Fitzpatrick, but they chose not to. But their corners are very good. You know, so I think there, you know, there's some really fun matchups there. Are we going to see Zabian Howard traveling to cover Stefan Diggs? There's going to be some really fun kind of defensive or cornerback wide receiver matchups going on in that game. I don't think the dolphins are built to be able to just consistently get pressure with four the way that Pittsburgh was. So maybe it won't be the same kind of challenge for Josh Allen. And look, the last

time that these two teams played, I mean, Buffalo just steamrolled Miami in 18 last year. I don't know how much is really valuable to glean from that game, just given the way that that game got out of hand really quickly. But yeah, so I just think there's a ton at stake now for Josh Allen because, look, if he doesn't play great, can you imagine the takes? The takes are going to be scorching hat. I can't wait to see how the, I don't want to take too much into the individual matchups because we have the Friday show, but I cannot wait to see how the bill or how the dolphins approached this because they were the man-heavyest team in the NFL last year and the bills shredded man coverage last season. So after you saw what happened last week and just the way

that the bills attacked teams last season, what kind of approach do you take? So I'm very excited to see what that looks like. All right, let's stick with teams that had pretty decent offenses last year that really struggled in week one. I think the Titans have the most at stake. Throw a name out there. Ryan Tanna Hill, Todd Downing, whoever. I mean, you look at the way they played in one.

Julio Jones, anybody. The Titans' offense to me has the most at stake because I don't think their defense is going to be very good this year. And if they pushed all their chips into the middle, right, restructuring Ryan Tannenhill's contract, restructuring a bunch of different contracts. to create more cap space. Going on and trading for Julio Jones, restructuring Julio's contract to create more cap space.

I mean, they have committed to this personnel offensively and to this group within this window that may or may not exist. And now they have to get the most out of it. And one week into the year hasn't gone so well. I mean, you look at some of the issues they had in protection, some of the questions they had about the use of play action, how they can protect play action. I mean, you just need to see more.

more out of this offense. They're playing against the Seahawks this week and the Colts in week three. If they go 0 and 3, which absolutely is possible, what does that mean for them? In the AFC South, maybe you'll be fine. But I still think that that kind of start for a team that again has committed to winning right now, it's the last thing that you want to say. Yeah, that's really, really rough. And look, I, you know, Taylor, we didn't even talk about Taylor and the Juan being on that list of the guys who have a ton at stake. week. I just like them to see them get back to who they are because there was almost no point in that game against Arizona where they were recognizable and saying like, oh yeah, that is the Titans

offense that we know and the next evolution of who they should be once they got, once they brought in Julio Jones. We just never saw that. And maybe that was because Chandler Jones was just destroying shit on every single snap. But I just want to see them get back to being who they are. Sometimes teams run into that, right? You just have that day where it all falls apart immediately. Remember when the Packers went to Tampa last year? And it's just like, what the hell is going on? And even the Packers game last week against the Saints.

Sometimes you just have those games where you just start digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole. And the things that you wanted to go to, you can no longer go to because they either went sideways the first couple times you tried them, like that boot right into Chandler Jones. and it's like, ah, now I get scared off from using more play action, but if we're going to go away from that, are we the best version of themselves? Things just start to compound. And then the game is just completely out of your hands by the time you get to halfway through the second quarter.

And you'd hope, as a Titans fan, that's what you're talking yourself into. It's like, this was one of those games where it just got away from us immediately and we could never grab hold of the rope again. And hopefully you can kind of get back on track this week, but that's why they have a ton of stake. Because if they don't, then I think we start out,

asking some real questions about what this team is going to look like offensively over the course of the year. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Let's get to our next segment here. Every week, we want to get excited about something. We want to talk about something that is appointment viewing for each of us heading into the week based on what we saw last Sunday. It can be good. It can be bad.

But something we know that we'll be watching, why don't you start us off? All right. I cannot wait to watch Aaron Rogers on Monday. night football. Look, Aaron Rogers is, look, okay, Urban Meyer needs a sideline cam. Aaron Rogers needs like a body language cam at all times now because he really opened himself up, I think, this year to like constant psychoanalysis of, you know, we're in his head or trying to get into his head at all times. What is he thinking? How is he feeling? You know, he's throwing up, you know, arm punts against the saints. And it's like, is he checked out? Does he not want

be here is he you know what exactly is going on so that is only going to be heightened now that they got blown out in week one weird shit happens to the packers on monday night football especially against the lions so this could be a weird game right i mean the lions are going to be an interesting team i mean we know that they're going to be feisty at least you know they're not going to go away um so no matter what happens with erin rogers i tend to think this is going to be like a 400 yard four down, fuck you performance from Aaron Rogers. But if it's not, and he has another multi-interception game or, you know, he just looks off, that also is going to be something that we cannot take our eyes off of. With the added bonus that I will be watching the Peyton Manning and Eli Manning

cast broadcast of it, which was also going to be really, really, really, really fun. So I did not watch that on one day. And I was great. I was in and out of the house, which was the reason I had an engagement that I had to do right when the game was starting. So then I was kind of out of sorts. And I got back and I was just like, I threw on the normal broadcast. I wasn't really thinking about it. I wasn't on Twitter. So I have to do that this week.

But you're 100% right. I mean, he has invited this sort of scrutiny, psychoanalysis, whatever. I can't remember us really be having this sort of window into like a quarterback of this stature, right? Like even this week being like, I threw that interception because of the nutshot that I took. Like, even that is just something that when, we just don't hear that from like Hall of Fame quarterbacks talking about the game and where they're at and the reason for some of this stuff. It just feels like the curtain has been pulled back to such a degree that it becomes this object

of fascination. And that's why people are going to be watching him with all of this scrutiny for the rest of the year, which I completely agree with. Yeah. And normally I don't think I'd be really jacked up to watch a lion's game. But the Rogers effect is going to make it really, really interesting. And I'll just say one more thing about the Manning cast. What was my biggest question about, as somebody who covered Peyton Manning for a lot of years,

especially at the tail end of his career, my biggest question about him going into broadcasting was how he would analyze other quarterbacks because he so reveres that position. And, you know, these guys are, some of them are still kind of his peers. Aaron Rogers is kind of a peer of his. And would he be willing to be critical of those guys? What we saw on Monday night in the Ravens and Raiders game was that, he wasn't necessarily like criticizing specific throws, but he was talking about process and decision making and, you know, what are you seeing here? And, and, and, and, and, and, and,

Eli was, Eli called out Derek Carr a couple of times, you know, when he went with a hard count from the inside the one yard line that calls a false start. And, you know, so it was really interesting. So I'm very curious to see kind of what those guys say, you know, about the Rogers situation and about the way that he's playing and what the offense looks like. Um, with the, um, with the added side of this is that you didn't see this, but I know the people who were watching, Peyton Manning could not hide his disappointment in poor quarterback play and poor quarterback decision making.

And now we're going to get to see him talk about Jared Gough and the Lions. So I'm expecting him to go full disappointed dad mode again. I'm very excited to watch that. Speaking of the Lions, I'm going with Matthew Stafford because I, obviously it was hard for me to watch on Sunday what he was doing. With a little bit of distance from it and with no investment in the Rams offense playing well, I'm very excited to see what it looks like again. Because we talked so much during that podcast I did with Nate about the new quarterbacks and new places,

about what this offense might look like with Matthew Stafford. Spreading it out, more shotgun, being able to push the ball outside the numbers, being able to push the ball down the field. We saw that. You know, there was still some of the same old boot stuff that we're used to, but that long Cooper Cup touchdown, just debilitating broken coverage that still makes me sad to think about, that's just a shotgun, sling it down the field type of approach.

And that team did not have this ever over the last few years. And just the way that they've been able to spread this offense out and attack people, I'm really excited to look to see what it looks like moving forward. They're playing the Colts this week. And the Colts, even if they struggled a little bit against Seattle last week, This is still a pretty good defense. So I'm just excited to see what that offense looks like over the course of the year, how they change,

how they mold around Matthew Stafford. And so far, the early returns are very, very good. He just throws such a pretty ball. Oh, God. It's just like,

just to get it. It's easy to fall in love with it. It really, really is. And it's funny because you watched a couple of those big plays. And two, the first deep shot, I think to Jefferson and the touchdown to Cooper Cup,

I think we're both against cover six. six looks, so quarter, quarter half looks that are staples of the Vic Fangio offensive or defensive tree. And it's been funny watching, we talked about this with Jordan a little bit yesterday, how McVeyas had all this time to kind of get in the lab to think about how he wants to attack defenses with that DNA. And the irony is that the long touchdown to Tyler Lockett in the Colt Seahawks game was against cover six. So you just have these principles kind of floating around the league and you have an offensive coordinator, an offensive coach in McVeigh, who's spent so much time thinking about how to dial up plays that deconstruct that type of defense.

And again, I just cannot wait to see what it looks like here over the next couple months. Yeah, I mean, and this is a Colts team. I mean, I know we've kind of moved on from the at stake, but big disappointment last week. Yeah. They were supposed to be really, really good. And they played really well last year. They should have been really good so far. and they were a massive disappointment in week one.

So a lot of pressure, especially on their defensive backs, knowing what the Rams are going to throw at them. All right. Let's get to our one big question that we have this week. We're going to do this every single Thursday. Just the one thing that it's sticking with you. You can't get over it right now. All right.

I'm going to cheat on this a little bit because it's one big question with a couple little sub questions. But I want to know if the West divisions, the AFC West and the NFC West can get to, can get to 8-0 again. Both of those divisions went 4-0. So I want to see if those divisions can stay undefeated. You know that I live in Denver. I have some West biases. I remember there was a show earlier this spring where people came at us on Twitter and we're like, you never talk about the West Coast and we're like, are you kidding me? All we do is talk about the Rams and the Broncos and the Chiefs.

So it was really exciting for me to see the AFC West and the NFC West just dominate week one. So little sub questions in here. The most vulnerable team, I think it's the Raiders who have to go on the road to the Steelers. The Steelers are going to bring a lot of pressure and the Raiders offensive line is not in great shape. They lost one of their guards again this week, Richie Incognito. Still not sure if he's going to be able to play. And Denzel good towards ACL as well, I believe. So they're already getting hit with some injuries at that spot.

Yeah. So they could be vulnerable against one of the better defensive fronts in football. So that's the most vulnerable team, I think, in the mix. I'm really excited to see the Arizona Cardinals defense and what Chandler Jones might be able to do against the Minnesota Vikings offensive line. That might be like not safe for work type of film when we eventually get that all 22 and get to watch that next week. And then the other third question is involving a West team is how the Ravens are going to attack Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs. And is Wink Martindale going to just be who he is and bring, you know, zero coverage and blitz, splits, splits, splits, splits because Patrick Mahomes ate them alive last year when last time they played. So those are kind of my fun little like AFC, NFC, NFC, or AFC West, NFCs storylines that I'm watching this week.

And the Chargers play the Cowboys. It's a great game. That's so interesting. I have not gone back and watched the Chargers defensive film closely. I watched it a little bit yesterday when I was watching Ray Sean Slater. you just catch scattered plays here and there. Derwin James is just leaping off the screen in like 10 second bits. But I'm excited to go back and watch that just because I think that matchup with the Chargers

defense against the Cowboys offense, I cannot wait. I mean, that is going to be a great thing to dig into. I'm sure we will talk about that a little bit with Nate tomorrow. My big question, the one thing that I just can't stop thinking about, how much longer can can the bear stick with Andy Dalton? And this is not, I'm not saying that they should be. playing Justin Fields. I'm not one of those people who's like, this is ridiculous. How are you doing this? I just think that eventually the pressure is going to start mounting. If you look at what they were

on offense last week, they did not attempt to pass with more than 15 air yards. They were the only team in the NFL to do that. To be fair, against the Rams, that will happen. This is a team that does everything they can come how high water to limit explosive plays. But when your offense is that anemic and when you have this guy sitting on the bench with all this talent and when you have the offensive coordinator today, Bill Lays are coming out and saying things like, Justin Fields is ready to handle anything. He's been ready to handle anything. We're running out of reasons then. I understand wanting to protect him behind a patchwork offensive line, but if you come out and keep saying that stuff, you're going to have people pounding down the doors. You're going to have

them storming the castle wanting this guy to play. And it just seems like if they lay another egg and they look bad against the Bengals and then they go and play against the Browns and they start off 0 and 3, I think they're running out of room. They're running out of runway if that's what happens and their offense continues to struggle. And that's what I thought might happen is that even if you want to be patient with this, at a certain point, it's going to be difficult to be patient.

I still just have so many questions about the idea of protecting a guy, protecting a guy who was starting quarterback at the University of Georgia and Ohio State University in a first round pick, a guy that you traded up to get, how much you need to be protecting him. It's one thing if you think that he was physically going to be harmed by Aaron Donald. And even that, I was still a little like, you know, he's an NFL player. But how much are you harming him that by not playing him? I guess I just don't buy that idea of that, like, we have to protect him and by playing him and potentially losing games early, that it's going to ruin him somehow. I guess I'm just kind of, I don't necessarily buy that, especially when it's clear that he is the better option.

And I just, you can't make a legitimate argument that Andy Dalton is the better option. And if you, if we can see that, the players can see that too. It's going to become a problem. That's the conversation we had with Mitch on yesterday's show, that eventually guys in the locker were going to understand that. I do think there's an argument for wanting to avoid bad habits. And if you start feeling uncomfortable in the pocket and not trusting your protection and not trusting what's around you and you start, stuff can start to devolve. Stuff can start to deteriorate. That's the last thing that I want to see.

I think his development, again, is the most important thing. And you need to take the long-term view and have some perspective on this. but I do think that they're making it harder on themselves. And I do think it's going to become more and more difficult to stand by your guns and to say, we just think this is what's best for the team. That's going to be really, really challenging if we keep going down this road. All right. So every single week before we get out of here,

if you guys have not looked at Thursday night football schedule, it is rough. It is rough, especially over the first month of the year or so. tonight we're looking at Washington and the Giants. So before we get out of here, at least for the first month or so of the season, I'm going to ask you to sell me on Thursday night football. I need you to pitch this game to me so I hate myself just a little bit less when I turn it on tonight. Because I assume most of the people listening to the show will be watching this game

and I want them to feel comfortable with the decisions that they're making. All right. Well, first of all, remember what it felt like in like May when all you wanted was like an NFL game to be on television. Great argument. Great place to start. Think about like those nice where you're like, oh, it's Thursday night. You mean I just got to watch like Reds Pirates. That's all I got. Right? Okay. So I love this. All right. So at least we have a real NFL football game. I also want you to remember back to the wild card playoff game when the Washington football team were playing the Bucks. And, And Twitter fell in love with Taylor Heineke.

He was so fun. It was really fun to all be together enjoying the Tyler Heineke experience. Taylor Heineke, excuse me, experience together on Twitter. He might not be a long-term answer. He might only stay healthy for a half of the game. But when he's in there, he's going to be fun and exciting to watch. He's going to take some deep shots. He's going to scramble around.

So that will be fun. So that's part two. Part three, the Washington defense, especially their defensive front, really good. I will always advocate for any chance that you get to watch Chase Young play. They didn't have a great game in week one. So this could be a coming out party for that Washington defensive line. Fantasy football. There are fantasy football implications here.

I know there are sad people out there like me who have Sequin Barkley on your fantasy football team. And you were hoping that he will have more than like seven rushing yards like he did in week one. So there are fantasy football implications. And four, if you like an. adult beverage, pour yourself one, and take a sip or a chug every time that Daniel Jones turns over the football. And then drink a glass of water. These are all incredible suggestions. And if you start playing the drinking game, you're going to have a better or worse time with your fantasy team. All of this stuff starts to combine into a wonderful experience. Those are great

arguments. I completely agree with the Washington defense side of this. I also am excited to watch the Giants defense again. I think that they did not play well last week, but I still have faith in that being a pretty good unit over the course of the year. So that is going to be worth watching to me. And you're 100% right. The Washington defense top to bottom, still a very good unit. I think that Justin Herbert got the best of them. I don't think many offenses over the course of the year will.

I'm sold. I'm going to watch the game. I was going to anyway. But now I feel a little bit better about it, which is the goal here. And hopefully have some tasty snacks, like a cheese plate, perhaps. I don't know. Just another great example. All right, Lindsay, thank you very much.

We will be chatting with you next week. And every single Thursday, appreciate the time. Thanks. Talk to you later. It is time now for our first team visit of the season. At the athletic, we have the unique opportunity to have a writer at pretty much every single team in the NFL. And it'd be silly to not chuck in with one of them every single week to get a close-up look at one of the teams in the league, what they're going through, what the vibe is there.

And I wanted to start with a team we did not get to on the training camp tour because it's way too far away from everything else, but a team that I find pretty fascinating and had a very successful week one. And that's the Seattle Seahawks and Seahawks writer Michael Sean Dugar. Mike, how you doing, money? I am doing good. I'm covering a team with the franchise quarterback, so that keeps you relevant. People read and care about your content when that's the case.

It's always fun. And the franchise quarterback played extremely well on Sunday. And this offense, which was an object of discussion pretty much all summer, You wrote about it multiple times. I think that you spent a lot of time writing about it because that's what people were interested in. The new offense coordinator, what it would look like. So when you were having conversations about Shane Waldron and about the offense this summer, what were the things that kept coming up?

What were the kind of features in your mind that you expected to be prominent when you got to watch the offense in action for the first time? A couple things. but one of them was the idea that they would have, like, they would use everyone. You know, they were like a fantasy owner's nightmare in that regard in that like, okay, we're not just going to throw it to D.K. and Tala lock it 10 times a game, right? Which you would think, like, oh, we should, teams should do that, you know, that makes sense. But I think the goal was to be like, all right, if we have Gerald Everett on the field and Will Disseley on the field and Freddie Swain on the field and Diaskridge on the field and Chris Carson on the field, and Rashop Penny on the field, you don't know where the ball is going. And you got the sense from people who were on the Rams in particular,

where Shane Waldron was and where Gerald Everett was that, like, one of the issues or one of the things the light bulb came on for the Rams was, we know where the ball is going to number 16 and number 14. If we just do something about that, we can beat these guys. And that was like the math that they did. And now I think you can tell there's a concerted effort to be like, okay, 16's on the field, 14's on the field. But so is 81 and so as 89 and all those other guys that rattle off.

So I think there will be a lot of games. where like I said, it's a fantasy owner's nightmare. I have DK.K. in one league, so I'm, like, part of that group where D.K. will go a whole half without a catch or Tyler will go an entire half with, like, a target, but they're up 10, right? Because Gerald Everett scored or Disley scored or Chris Carson scored or Russ ran one in or whatever. So I think the idea of, like, you have to stop all of us. It's almost like offense by committee in that way. I think that was something that was like the goal, but it was hard to tell how, like, how achievable that would be.

but obviously week one, I think it worked out really well. Like the ball got spread around. You could tell the Colts had no idea where the ball was going on any given snap. And it felt like along with that, it's like, all right, we're going to get the ball to everybody that we can. You combine that with a lot of motion, a lot of play action, the stuff that we've gotten used to with the Rams. And you combine all of those things into the recipe. And it felt like that's what we saw on Sunday. Like you have all of these, like, you imagine what it might look like.

And you have all these guesses about what teams are going to do, based on the hires they made, the players they signed, but sometimes it doesn't play out that way. And for me on Sunday, at least, when I watched that offense, I was like, this is what I expected to see. And that's actually pretty cool. When it unfolds in the way that you hoped or the way that you thought it might, there's really something to that.

And that's how I felt watching the Seahawks on Sunday. And Pete Carroll did too. You can tell, like, he, I mean, he's there every day. He knows every play. He knows the scheme. But you could tell there was an element of, like, hopefulness in that, like, shoot, I hope it looks like how we practiced. Because you just never, Pete's been in this business enough to know, like, man, you can practice a play every day of the week.

Get there and you botch it, you know, on Sunday because that's just how it goes. But you could tell he wanted to just see how it looked and see it like, be reassured in that way. Like, all right, we ran this play this way and it looked like that. We ran these plays. We set this play up and practice this way. And it fooled the defense in that regard. I mean, you're always going to have, and I wrote about this on Sunday, like, Russ is going to be good in any offense. Very clear about that.

He's like Rogers or Brady or Mahom. He just transcendent talent in that Peyton Manning, Drew Brees. You give them a football and you give them 10 teammates and they're going to score touchdowns. That's where Russ is at in his life. But yeah, how it looked was very important. And I remind people, Brian Schottenhammer had three top 10 offenses in a row by using DVOA and a lot of other metrics and got canned. Not because he wasn't a good coordinator because of like it didn't please like an aesthetic almost if the coach wanted. And anybody who watched week one of last year for the Seahawks against the Falcons and week one against Seahawks.

versus the Colts. You can just see the differences. And you and Nate talked a little bit about it. I mean, like week one wrap up, it just has a different look. And that's important because Pete wanted it to look different. And that was like if you're a Seahawks fan, very encouraging. What do you think were those differences? How did he want it to look different?

What features did he need to be satisfied with the way the offense was structured? I think he needed to feel like the defense didn't know what was coming in a way that incorporated the run. I think that was the other part of it with playing the ramp. The Rams broke the Seahawks last year. Like that was one of my conclusions from the offseason. Like the combination of Brandon Staley, Aaron Donald, Jailen Ramsey, and John Johnson was like, all right, computer overload for the Seahawks. But I think Pete needed to be, he needs to see a marriage between the run game and the passing game.

I think that last year when teams like the Rams started to do those split safety looks, he didn't feel like the team was equipped to beat good defenses. It's like, all right, cool, we can hand it to Chris, Chris Carson, that is, and beat you. And you saw that element of it, too, in a way that, like, was deceptive. You look at some of their plays, and you see, like, a fly sweep action with Deaskridge on one snap, but then the next snap, it's that same motion, but a hand off to Chris. Or he may fake it to both of them and hit D.K. Or roll out and hit Will Dishley. Or then one snap, Freddie Swain might be coming to take the fly sweep, or one snap, DKMek-Mekh might be coming.

Or on this play, DKs here, on this lineup, DKs there. but it's the same like everybody's interchangeable. That's the word Tala Lockett used. And I noticed it during the game and even like a peek behind the curtain. We didn't talk about it beforehand. My colleague Stephen Holder, he covers the Colts for us. He like blurted out in the third quarter. He was like, man, they're running the same variation of the same, like three plays.

And I had it on my notes already. And I was like, yep, okay, I'm seeing the same thing. And I hear in Gerald Everett talk about it after the game with this, Tala Lockett. That's their goal. It's dress everything up so it looks the same. So your linebackers are thinking really hard when there's guys in motion and there's a lot of this communication, but you have no idea where the ball's going. That was the goal. How long that lasts?

Who knows? But I think that was the plan in the offseason. It sounds like the Rams. Like, that's exactly what it sounds like. It's just this is the exact same stuff that we've talked about with Sean McVeigh's Rams for so many years. And McVeigh and all of the little terminology that he uses, the idea was always the illusion of complexity. We want the illusion of complexity. We want it to seem like all of these things are happening, but in reality, we're spamming the same shit over and over and over again.

It just has all of these bells and whistles on it so you don't know what's coming. And that's what it felt like. My friend Danny Kelly from the ringer posted a really nice compilation of clips from the game. Beautiful video by Danny. Yeah, yeah. Where it was all the same action, but you're doing different things off of it. And then the other thing, part of that is, like you talked about, it's the illusion of complexity. It's the marriage of the run in the past.

And then you look at the final numbers, a 42% play action. according to PFF for Russell Wilson on Sunday. And when all that shit looks the same in the first three steps and you have no idea what you're doing, again, it's like kind of the Rams 101. Like this is the conversation we're having three years ago. But I think that if you plug in that kind of stuff with Russell Wilson, D.K. Metcalf and Tyler Lockett, it ends up looking real damn good, even if it's a conversation we've already had in the past.

And I think the complexity part is important because it is like there are doing some stuff that's hard to keep up with. Like, for example, I remember this was before they played the Rams. I want to say before the 2019 game, there's a night football week five. The game stood out for everyone else because that's when Tyler has that crazy catch in the back of the end zone and their highlighted of green jerseys, one of the most improbable catches you'll probably ever see.

But before that game, I was talking to Bobby Wagner, because the Rams had beat them pretty bad the past like three years, three meetings at least, and scored a lot of points in particular. And I remember Bobby explaining to me the intricacies of what they were doing, how they were beating them. why I was going to be different this time. And I was like, he convinced me. And then watching the game, I was like, okay, Bobby does know what's going on.

Do the other 10 guys. And do they know it at a level high enough that they can stop them? The answer was no. The Rams scored like 30 points again and only lost the game because Greg Zerline, I think missed a field goal that would have won it. So they still scored like 30 points. Gerald ever had like 100 yards. And they reminded me it's like, even if one or two guys know,

hell, even if the coach knows what the play is, the 11 guys on the field have to execute it. And I think that's where they're going to have an advantage a lot of time. You can see it in that Colts game. There are good defenders on the Colts. Darius Leonard knows what the hell he's doing. Like their safeties are like relatively competent. And there were times where they just were out executed to or their teammates, you know,

missed a tackle, got shoved out of bounds or whatever. And I think that is where I worry about like the sustainability of it when defensive coordinators have enough tape, you know, because there was an element of surprise that won't exist in future weeks. now that people can study it. But I do think at the end of the day, you need to be a damn good player to sniff this out. And like I said, the Rams had that. And they still have some of that.

But there's only one Rams team. You know, there's other teams on the schedule. So I think that's where the Seahawks can be encouraged. We're going to beat a lot of people because everyone doesn't have, you know, all pros and Jalen Ramsey and Aaron Donald on their team. I wanted to ask you about what it looks like as it progresses. Because we've had this kind of kumbaya feeling around the Seahawks offense before. You know, early last year, it was very similar vibes, and then it starts to devolve.

And obviously, this is a quarterback who last year, as recently as last year or this offseason, was a little bit unhappy with his situation. And, you know, we forget that because of the fact that he's there and it wasn't maybe as noisy as the Aaron Rogers situation was. So I wanted to ask you, as they've tried to balance building an offense with more answers in it, and then also catering to the way that Russell wants to play, how do you fall? how do you foster the happiness of your quarterback while also trying to make these tweaks offensively?

And do you think that's been a conscious effort? I think it will be on their minds all year. And I think the simple answer, this is really simple, is like avoid being down a lot because things get, you know, any relationship, when you reach adversity is when you find that if you two are made for each other. And that's in any type of relationship, business, sports, you know, intimate or whatever. Right.

like when the going gets tough do you guys get going together and i think that is where they had some issues last year in particular you know they got embarrassed by the bills last year and then they went to l.A. and lost and it was like okay how do we fix this thing and they could not agree on how to fix the thing so i guess the simple answer is avoid needing it to be fixed but even pete carroll said today like football is like the great coaches they're great at fixing the issues but i think one one way they're going to try to avoid that naturally is not having guys you can key on. Like that's their goal. Like teams are always going to have a guy with a number 14 practice jersey when you play

the Seahawks because if you don't have that for D.K. Metcalf, D.K. Metcalf does to you what he did to the Eagles and the Niners in a couple games last year. It hits your best corner for like a buck 60 or something like that. But I think another thing that Shane Walsh hinted at because he doesn't want to tell me, hey, Mike, here's how we're going to adjust, right? Even though that's what I asked him that. One answer that he gave that was kind of unique or interesting that I thought was like diving into other areas of football or other levels of it necessarily.

Like I use the example of like, I think it would be enemy or whoever was responsible for pulling out that 1940s Rolls Bowl play. Yeah. And the 2019 Super Bowl, I get the sense that Shane's like of that mind. Like, okay, cool. Everyone in the NFL is running the same version of like 10 concepts. All right, well, let's go to high school. All right, let's go to college then.

What is some team running at like the FCS level with scoring a bunch of points? I remember that. This is that coach at like they used to coach in high school. like a Liberty or a Presbyterian College or something like that where his he doesn't punt he doesn't kick his team just score like 84 points like maybe you watch it him maybe you want to take one concept one play one nugget but it's one nugget that like vance joseph doesn't hasn't seen yet right like that's that i think i'm reading Shane's mind a little bit but when he answered my question in August about that exact problem he mentioned that like staying in tune with what's working

even if that means like going away from what's working in the pros because anyone who studies football and those guys have been stealing ideas from high school and college and taking him to the pro level for years. So I think that might be something that we see maybe in week 10, week 11, week 12, and that like, oh, wow, that's a new wrinkle that like some assistant probably found from like some high school tape from 1998. You know, I think I've asked Shadi about that last year too. And he was like, yeah, we do that type of stuff. And I think that's going to be one of their like aces in the hole almost. Maybe that's not the right idiom. But you know what I mean.

Like one of their ways to avoid getting. figured out late into the season. Getting stale, absolutely. And I think the one thing that jumped out to me, Nate and I talked about this on our show was the ideas of the threes and the layups, right? You take your shots and then you get stuff underneath. And there were, when I went back and I watched the game this morning,

there were some created layups, right? Like the first screen to Gerald Everett is just like, high percentage, yak opportunity. Like, let's just get our guy an easy completion. But there were a lot of underneath throws that were not schemed up underneath throws. where Russ is working like a levels concept to the right side, and he's looking deep, and then he's checking down. There was a play.

It was like seven minutes left in the second quarter. It was right after the Pascold touchdown, where they went with the jet motion from right to left with Metcalf, and then Disley and Metcalf were on the, excuse me, with Lockett, and Disley and Metcalf are on the right side. And Metcalf runs this deep cross, and Carson just runs right into the flat. And after looking at Metcalf for like half a second,

Russ was like, all right, I'll dump it off. And he was doing that consistently the whole game, where he's like, I'm totally comfortable. just taking this easy money in the flat here over and over and over again. And I think that that approach and that buy-in from him being willing to take what's there, I think that bodes very well for whatever formula they're trying to stick to over here. And that idea is why I sounded like a shoddy apologist towards the end of last year, because I knew the role that the quarterback plays in like throwing the quick game.

Like that's not just every most competent coordinators have quick. game built into the scheme, right? They're not idiots, but it's about the quarterback making those reeds, you know what I mean? Like, Russ is not a guy who's ever really been like, all right, let's win this quick game stuff. That's not him. You look at a heat map of passing charts from his whole nine years and there's a lot of throws outside the numbers, right? Because that's just what he does. That's where he's good at. And coordinators have realized this is where our, you know, our bread's going to be buttered. Like, I can understand that. But that play you talked about was a great one. Like it real quick, I'll call me hit Chris. I think D.K.'s first catch, it's is in the

third quarter is very similar where it's like, I think there was something deep there, but he was like, all right, cool, let me hit DK, I think it was like on a stick route or something like that, and then got a first down. Like taking what's given, I think is something that is on Russ more than anything else. Shottie had quick game in there. So I had intermediate throws. Like, Shottie wasn't doing just, I would either throw it to DK or we run it. No, man. He was like a decent, a decent coach, but some of that is on Russ, I think. And that's really important. And it's important in terms of the sustainability of their team too. can Russ have that patience if they're down 10 in the third quarter to not want to just play hero ball

to not force it to double coverage in the DK take that six yard underneath to Will Disseley and live to fight another play like that's important there's a human element to playing quarterback guys get frustrated guys get nervous guys get anxious guys see the clock like Russ is different because he has a brain coach that teaches him not to care about that stuff but like the training can take you so far at the end of the day so I think that Russ's role in this like as you alluded to was very, very important and perhaps an understated part of why things didn't work towards the end of the year. And I understand why it's understated because, like, Russ won't talk about it and you have to really know football to speak about it, you know, intelligently. But it matters.

Who your quarterback is matters and how he wants to kick, how he wants to get down with the football matters, right? And that's something that Seahawks fans need to understand. I, it was, I mean, it's touchdown to check down with him, right? And that's what it looked like on Sunday. It's like, all right, if touchdown's there, I'm going to take it. And there were a couple plays of where it was there. But when it wasn't, he's like, you know what? I'm totally comfortable. They were trying to high-low people a lot with those levels flood concepts to the right side,

where you have three different levels of the throws and then you're trying to high-low the corner on that side. And he was perfectly comfortable when that corner was playing off just to take what was there. And as long as they keep doing that and taking the shots when they're available, you have to love that. The one play, I want to talk about the defense, but first, the touchdown to lock at the first one. I loved. I want to say, I don't know if you've asked.

about this or anybody else did, but the center, Fuller is his last name, right? Isn't it Kyle Fuller? Yep, Kyle Fuller. So they were lined up, it looked like a zero blitz. And I think he literally put up a fist being like zero, zero, and communicated the entire line. And Penny picked off the defensive tackle with like just enough. And Russ completed the pass. And I was like, that is a nice little bit of football from a youngish center and a team

that has struggled to pass protect a little bit in the past and making that happen in real time and getting that ball off. It's just like when you give that team that sliver, if you're going to bring a zero blitz against Russell Wilson and Tyler Lockett, you better get there because if you don't get there, that's exactly how it's going to end for you. Yeah, and on top of that, I think it's a disguise, too. It's not as obvious, like the Ravens.

Like I was watching Russ watch the Ravens game. And the Ravens, zero blitz is like so predetermined, right? But they're counting on getting there. Yeah, they're always coveted, and they count on the corners to make a play, which is fine. I understand that way of thinking. But like you look at that Colts play that you're talking about. They're showing like a too high type of look.

And then this, I think the safety might rotate down. Like, because Lockett, I think was probably supposed to run like a crosser. And you can tell the safety like takes it away. And then Tyler kind of took it down the field. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's just beautiful, beautiful play that you can't even like, you can't plan for that. But yeah, I think the line is another part of why the offense fell apart last year.

Like, they, I talked to somebody who has, like, intimate knowledge of their offense after the season last year, talking specifically about the Rams game. And he was just like, dude, we talked like 40 minutes and eventually he was like, look, we picked the worst time a year to play our worst game up front. That's really like, little derail anything. I don't care if you got Eric B. enemy, Andy Reid, Pete Carroll, and every great offense, you know, Bill Walsh, whoever. I don't care if you get every offensive mind in the room, your own line can't block. Quarterbacks are going to die and you're going to lose. That's just kind of how it's going to go. But I think that there was some really good pass protection there.

Even go to lock his second touchdown. Look at Gabe Jackson, the right guard against the Forrest Buckner. Hold that all pro dude off so Russ can unleash a moonball. Like, that play doesn't work if Gabe gets put on his back, right? And that has nothing to do with Russ or the play calling or predictability. That's execution. And that's why you hear coaches talk about that a lot after they watch the film. So I think, yes, the line play is definitely like a very important part of this.

and just Russ is trusting them too. Russ had to trust that game wouldn't end up on his back so that he could find time to throw to lock it. And again, that's all easier to do when you're winning and early in the season. So I'm curious to see how sustainable that is going forward as well. I want to talk about the defense because when I went back in and watched this game, I was expecting to focus on the offense, be excited about the offense.

But when I was watching the defense, I was like, man, this is a fun group. I mean, when you look at the front seven, they have so many different body types they can throw at you. how do you pronounce number 90s name? Oh, Brian Monet. Brian Monet was, that is a big dude. Yeah, Brian Monet and Al Woods in there, which is like a combined 700 pounds, I would assume. Yeah.

Like those two guys in there. So in certain packages, they have a lot of beef right there in the middle of the offensive wine. Then you can throw out packages when they were playing in the two minute. They had Rashim Green and Kerry Hyder at defensive tackle. The bodies and the body types, they can. and cycle through there, combined with the way that a guy like Daryl Terra played on Sunday, with some of the splash plays Rishim Green made on Sunday. It's just a group that I did not expect to be as excited and excited about and impressed by

as I was when I went back and I watched that team play on Sunday. Did you expect their front seven to be this kind of deep and versatile coming into the year? I did, actually. I used the example of like, it's like when you watch some of those bad cavalier teams with LeBron James lose in the playoffs because maybe the LeBron was the best player on the court, right? But then the other team maybe had players two through six, right? And that's just not something LeBron could overcome.

And I think that is where Seattle's front seven is going to be built. Like maybe they don't have the best player. Maybe DeForest Buckner was the best defensive lineman graded out the best or whatever. Okay, but then the next like four were Seahawks. Brian M.A., Risham, Darryl Taylor, maybe Carlos Dunlap as well. Okay, well, then that's how you beat, you know, a front. front that allowed what 21 sacks last year with some different personnel but still like regarded as like a good front I think that is where the Seahawks are going to be they're not going to be a sexy

pick I think pro football focus had him at like 29th someone else had them real low their D-line in particular but they have depth like when they rotate guys out they got guys who can still do a lot of good things that package you mentioned that has Rashim at 3 technique that's called their cheetah package and it's like NASCAR whatever teams yeah yeah I'll put all their fast guys on the field at the same time But even Brian Monet, Brian Monet is 330 pounds and had two quarterback hits. Right? Like that's hard to do at that way. And he was playing three technique, right?

Next to Al Woods, who's like 340 pounds. That is athleticism that they have up front. And those are two guys that aren't household names. You know, Al's and like 30 something in Brian Monet's third year undrafted out of like Michigan, I believe. And then Puna Ford's undrafted like third or fourth year guy out of Texas. Like you've got an undrafted and old dudes, you know, with athleticism that all weigh like 320 plus. So I think that this is the deepest Seahawks defensive line that they've had since 2013 when they won the Super Bowl. It's just not chock full of household names like they have with Michael Bennett and Cliff Averill and Chris Clemens at the time.

But I think the depth is certainly there. Yeah, I was really impressed. And I think that all the different ways they can throw that group at you is going to be fun to watch. The two guys, other than that, I would say the things that stood out, just of how fast the secondary plays, especially in run support. I mean, some of the plays that Jamal Adams made. I mean, the play, they saved a touchdown essentially on a screen. He made a tackle for loss on that first drive, which was really impressive. Chondre Diggs made a really nice play for a one-yard game right before the fourth and one

fumble snap from Carson Wentz. And that's just like, this team plays that way, right? Like, these Pete Carroll defenses are just going to play that way. But then the other aspect of their defense that really stood out to me, we talk about those high lows on the sideline and when you're trying to get those whole shots between the corner and the safety. the Colts consistently tried to do that on Sunday. And Bobby Wagner's just erasing that shit. Like multiple different times sticking with the tight end in those situations all the way to the sideline and just erasing the exact look that they're trying to take advantage of.

And again, it's just we talk about it. Bobby Wagner is a superstar, right? But there aren't that many other ones on this unit. But when you combine every piece that they have combined with the way that they play, I think this defense can be pretty good. Yeah, no, I think they will. this is like an extreme example but it reminds me a little bit teeny tiny bit of the 2012 Niners in a way that like their front seven was very good it had high-end talent though like to be clear it was the front was very good and their safeties were studs and their corners were just like

competent and they had a really good defense I think the the Seahawks probably have one of the best safety tammons in the league I know maybe Buffalo fans would disagree but like Jamal Adams and quandary digs are two pro bowl guys in their primes like it's hard to top that and you watch Jamal and quandary in the way they just come out of nowhere on the screen like Jamal needs to call the people who do the stats because he didn't actually get a TFL credit on the player mentioned I think they gave it to Benson. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. He didn't actually get it, but he made that play.

Yeah, exactly. It's one of those were like, if you're great, that's why you got to watch the game with safety play in particular until like the NFL gets its head out of its ass and gives us all 22 back. Struggling to get all 22 right now, I got to like call the home. I call my homie in Taiwan today to try to get NFL game pass. It's a struggle, but I do. It's a real sketchy vibe going on right now. A lot of backroom deals happening with the All-22.

Yeah, no, All-22 is a struggle right now. But I do think that, like, the safety play is going to, like, help carry this defense. Because Jamal can do a little bit of everything, man. Like, run support, flip over a huddle, a line at a fourth and one, you know, to disrupt what's going on. Quandre digs is like he runs he manned the alleys just so well as a freeze and he hits like a rocket and he has one play the one you mentioned as well when he he's actually with Brian Monet and they team up for that one yard loss before the fourth down he has another play I think it's in the second quarter and it's like second and ten and it's a screen to Jonathan Taylor because the Colts just had to run screens because he was under duress all day Jonathan Taylor's got some daylight man he looks like he's about to pick it up a first down keep the drive going quandre comes like he's shot at the McCannan basically flips Jonathan Taylor for a gain of seven. On the next play is a Carson throws incomplete. Boom.

Now the Colts have to punt, right? And it's just like one of those plays. It's just a tackle on a screenplay. But when you watch it and see how impactful it was, if you were to assign like EPA to an individual defensive player, that would have been a really high EPA, you would imagine based on time and score and impact that they had on the game. So I think, like, even people are overwhelmed by Seattle's corners

and I understand why they don't have the benefit of the doubt. Like, that's fair. the safeties deserve to benefit of the doubt. Those are two studs back there. I totally agree. And if they figure out the corner spots, and let's say they can have acceptable cornerback play, which it's hard to know against the Colts.

They're not really set up to take advantage of that, especially when the past protection is as leaky as it was on Sunday. But if this can be like, I don't know, the 12th best defense in the league, the 14th best defense in the league, and the offense hits the ceiling that we think it might be able to with the way they look on Sunday and with the talent that they have, I mean, this team suddenly becomes really interesting.

interesting in the NFC. It was all to me about how good the offense could be with this version and this recipe and so far so good. Yeah, I think that's where I think me and Pete Carroll probably disagree a little bit and why he wants to be built in kind of like a 2013-14 Seahawks mode where you run the ball, play possession game and all that other stuff. But I think that requires you having a defense that's really, really elite. Whereas I think the 2019 chiefs are Paul, a good example. Like, in 2018, their defense was garbage. I watched it here on primetime, Seahawks won, and they weren't even that good that year.

They went to the playoffs, but everyone gets my point. 2019, it's not like they became a top 10 defense the chiefs did. I think they got a new coordinator, traded for Frank Clark, might have signed the Honey Badger, and got into, like, respectable range, and they had, like, a top three offense. And so when you have, like, a top three offense and you're a really efficient passing, your defense doesn't need to be the Legion of Boom for you to, like, be in a elite team. Whereas if you're going to be like the Titans or something or even like the Browns to some extent, maybe more Titans than Browns, like then you need an elite defense. And that's why the

Titans have a ceiling because their defense is bad. So I think that the way the Seahawks are now, if you have like a top five, six passing offense, like if we just use like DVOA, be top six in passing DVOA by the end of the year, your defense only needs to be like you said, 12th, 13th maybe for you to be something. You don't have to be top 10. And I think that's important because if you're not going to have like elite like coverage guys like cornerback you're putting a ceiling on what your defense can be i think but 12th is fine if your offense is like top five which i think they should have awesome well it's so good to chat with you man i really appreciate the time are you working on anything you want people to know about uh that's a good question uh yeah i i have something interesting

coming out on bobby wagner it's like a fun story not anything like super intricate but utah state was Bobby Wagner's only offer coming at high school. Yeah. And this is a guy that played like just east of Los Angeles. Like he wasn't in the middle of nowhere. He was in the Pac-12 footprint or Pac-10 at the time and was only offered a scholarship to Logan, Utah. But the kick is how he got that scholarship and why it was basically like a, not a fluke,

but it was a lot of deception involved, let's just say. So I got that story coming out Thursday morning. That'd be pretty fun. But thank you for having me. Oh, absolutely. People should definitely go check that out. The first time I wrote about Bobby Wagner was in 2012. It was his rookie year. I was doing a series about underappreciated players on Grantland.

I did not expect that he would spend the next decade becoming a Hall of Fame, like an unassailable Hall of Fame player when he and I had that conversation after his rookie season. But that's exactly what he is. Michael Sean Dugar, always appreciate the time, my friend. We'll definitely catch up with you down the road. Thank you so much for having me, man. I appreciate it. All right, guys, that's all we got today.

Thank you so much to Lindsay. Thank you so much to Michael Sean. Really enjoyed that. We'll be back tomorrow with Nate and Sheel. In the meantime, please rate interview the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. I would really appreciate that. Please subscribe to the athletic. The athletic.com slash football show.

You can check out Bobby Wagner story. Michael Sean mentioned that he's working on right now. I highly encourage you to do that. We'll be back tomorrow, doing the Friday 5 and our picks segment with those two guys. Guys. Until then, appreciate you listening. We'll talk to you soon. This was the Athletic Football Show.