The Athletic Football Show: A show about the NFL - Wild Card Weekend Recap

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Wild Card Weekend started with the Texans defense throwing a perfect game in a 32-12 win over the Chargers. It ended with the Commanders notching the franchise's first playoff win in nearly 20 years. In between, the Ravens, Bills and Eagles all continued their excellent seasons by advancing to the Divisional Round. Robert Mays and Derrik Klassen recap Wild Card Weekend on this episode of The Athletic Football Show.RundownCommanders-Buccaneers recapPackers-Eagles recapBroncos-Bills recapSteelers-Ravens recapChargers-Texans recapHost: Robert MaysCo-Host: Derrik KlassenExecutive Producer: Michael BellerProducer: Michael BellerSubscribe to The Athletic Football Show...AppleSpotifyYouTubeFollow Robert on Bluesky: @robertmays.bsky.socialFollow Derrik on Bluesky: @qbklass.bsky.socialFollow Robert on X: @robertmaysFollow Derrik on X: @QBKlassTheme song: HauntedWritten by Dylan Slocum, Trevor Dietrich, Ruben Duarte, Kyle McAulay, and Meredith VanWoert / Performed by Spanish Love SongsCourtesy of Pure Noise / By arrangement with Bank Robber Music, LLC Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays. It is playoff time. We broke down all five of the games that have happened so far on Wild Card Weekend with me and Derek Klesson. You know, not the most exciting slate of games. We had a decent amount of blowouts with the prime teams in the NFL really announcing themselves.

But Washington and the Bucks did a very good job of salvaging that slate. We kicked things off with that and then went in reverse chronological order, breaking down what we saw from each of these games. and then like we've done the last couple years, doing a little bit of a post-mortem for all the teams that lost and maybe what their near-term outlook looks like. So very excited to dig into all of that with Derek Lassen.

Let's get to it right now. All right, Derek. Our first two days of the wildcar round are in the books. How you feeling? Fantastic. I was a little worried that we were going to get a rough wild card slate here, but good God, what a final game to send us off into.

I guess we still have one more wildcard game. We have the Monday Nighter, but a pretty good way to end this. Sunday. When we were deciding how we were going to lay out the show, we decided that we were going to lead with the game that we all just watched, Bucks Washington, which was the Sunday night game. And I was doing that because we needed that game to save us after the rest of the way the weekend had gone. So we were really rolling the dice on that game being something that was worth leading the show. Thankfully, Jaden Daniels, the Washington football team, and that game overall delivered a monster final drive for Jaden Daniels. Let's start with just that element. moment of it and Washington kind of rising to that moment. I've said two things and come to two conclusions about Jaden Daniels over the course of this season. One is that he's one of those guys that even if it's early in his career, he's becoming one of those rage quit quarterbacks. Like he's going to do something over the course of the game that is going to make either an individual

defense player or the defensive quarter on the other side just throw up his hands. He did that to Kalasha Cancy on that last play in the game where that thing should be over. He somehow Stiff Harmson gets the first down, they kick the game-winning field goal. And the other element of watching him is that these moments are not too big for him. He does not shy away from this. His composure, when these games are tight, late in the game, has been truly remarkable for a rookie quarterback. And tonight was no exception to that. Tonight was honestly one of his most impressive marks, because I know we can look at some of the Hail Mary's he's thrown or the Cincinnati game,

where he does get smoked on the go ball that he threw against Cincinnati. to win it. But that's like, you're throwing the go ball no matter what. You kind of just have to stand there and get it out. Whereas I thought in this game, he actually, it really goes back to what he's done all season at certain spots. He's answered some of the questions I had coming in where this game, I actually thought he hung in the pocket really well when he needed to, especially on a couple of plays in the red zone. Like the last one to Terry McLaurin, he's getting pressure from the inside shoulder of the left tackle. He just stands in there and makes the throw anyway. I thought that was a really, really good ball.

And then there were just other instances throughout the game where I thought he did really well to sit in there and make those throws. The other thing to me is, I think there have been points this year where this Washington team has gotten very fortunate that a lot of the vertical throws outside of the numbers have worked out for them. And I think that's been kind of the engine for their offense. That really wasn't the case today. Like they hit one early on to Terry McClure.

Ripping balls over the middle of the fields. Just ripping them. That's what it is. He was ripping. I think he was like five of five on throws that. that were 10 to 20 yards between the numbers. That is the exact box on the field that I was questioning whether or not that would be a good part of his game. And for that to be why they won a playoff game, that's just, I mean, hats off to him, man.

What a performance. One of the other reasons they won a playoff game is the Bucks just could not get out of their own way in the fourth quarter of that game. They fumble inside their own 20. They give the ball back to Washington. Washington scores a touchdown. That fumble on the botched snap from Baker Mayfield, it's even more, it's even tougher to stomach because of the play Mike Evans made on third down. The fact that Mike Evans catches that ball short of the sticks, understands exactly where

he's are, where he is on the field, reaches those, I don't know, 20 foot long arms backwards to try to get that. And on the next play, they fumble. And somehow, they're still in position to drive down the field to win this game because down to down, the buck's offense was really good in this game. They were just barely on the field. So they're driving down to score. Bucky Irving, instead of cutting it up, tries to just, one.

cut makes him leaves them a little bit short on the second and one. Baker keeps it on a third and one, on the second one, excuse me. Bucking, it's a nine-year-run on first down. Baker keeps it on second and one. And then on third and one, I think they're going to sneak it. Ali Connolly did a good job talking about this online tonight. It looked like they were going to sneak it. I think that they eventually changed the call to a run. And begin that change, it seemed like Graham Barton didn't recognize that it wasn't on two anymore. He snaps it on the first sound. They botch it. They end up kicking a field goal on fourth and three, and that leaves Washington that leaves the door open, a crack, they can come down and kick a field goal and the game is over. And it almost felt like as soon

as that happened, you knew that Washington was going to win just because they've done this how many times this year, five, six times? And even the fact that they've won so many of these games in incredibly close ways, the fact that the final field goal, by the way, dinks off the crossbar and goes in, feels like a perfect encapsulation of their entire season, that that is the margins at which they're winning are literally that slim. I think that says a lot about Jaden Daniels, too. The fact that when we knew they were getting the ball back with the game tied, we thought they were going to go down and score.

And he's earned that benefit of the doubt and that confidence in those moments. I will say, as a Bears fan, every single time, they just show the Hill Mary out of nowhere during one of these primetime games. I feel like Tim Robinson and they think you should leave sketch with the hat. Or I'm sitting there like, what is going on? Like, why am I sitting here having to endure this? I have nothing to do with what's going on in this game right now. But I think that's a great point.

The fact that as soon as they had that chance to go down and kick the field goal, it seemed like they were going to. This game kind of played out in terms of Washington's offense the way that I sort of expected it to. When Tampa sat back and played zone defense, especially when they weren't blitzing, especially after Jamel Dean goes out and Hayes goes in at that outside corner spot, Daniels picked them apart. Against zone looks today, he was 18 of 24 for 183 yards and two touchdowns.

when they didn't get pressure on him, and they didn't blitz him a ton out of zone looks. They actually sent a decent amount of mann blitzes when they played man, and he struggled against those. But when he had time, he picked them apart. We said, this is a Tampa defense that will give you space,

and this is a Washington passing offense that is very good exploiting space when you play those sorts of coverages against them. And that's pretty much what happened throughout this entire game. Yeah, like I didn't come away from this thinking, I honestly thought Tampa's outside cornerbacks, especially before the Dean injury, we're kind of playing fairly well. And that's why if you look at like Jaden Daniels's past chart, the entire thing is like slant routes.

It's these little spot routes to Zach Ertz or something. Or it's those big, deep, deep routes over the middle of the field where maybe a linebacker's running himself out of coverage or Jaden Daniels just pinned it into this window deep over the middle of the field. So I thought they did a really, really good job attacking that. And that is kind of like you said, this is how we thought it would play out for the passing offense, just in the sense of the Bucks give up so much air in the coverage and we know they're going to throw stuff at him. Ken Daniels beat it. And I think we both had a decent amount of fate that he would be able to do it. To do it in the way that he did it, again, with a lot of the throws over the middle of the field,

I thought was super impressive. To me, the part of this that I don't know if I would have predicted that it would have gone this well, you said it coming in. When Washington cannot run the ball very well, they're usually start to slow down overall as an offense. They didn't run the ball well at all in this game. Like the Bucs defense really, really stepped up, and it didn't matter. The quarterback was just better. And I thought Cliff did a pretty good job of finding answers, especially in the one to 10 yard area,

to pick on those voids that the Bucks like to leave open. It's a great point. And I thought a building a Bucks case for their defense being better than we might expect, given their late season struggles, was stopping the run and what that's done to Washington other games. Part of the reason Washington was able to overcome that is they were really, really good on third down in this game. I believe they were eight.

They finished eight to 15 on third down, three of five on fourth down. Those extra opportunities come up huge. And I know they missed a couple of those fourth downs, but the ones that they got end up swinging the game. And Tampa not deciding to go forward on that fourth and three and giving the ball back to Washington with a chance to go down and win the game, that ultimately is what decides this.

The three out of five on fourth down also feels like another way that you would explain the way that this Washington season has gone, where they have had one of the most like historical outlier seasons in terms of converting on fourth down. So even when they missed one early in the game, you were like, whoa, this never happens to this team. And then they still go on in there. I think that's the thing that is most impressive about this to me is that Dan Quinn has been very, very willing to keep hammering this, even when it's not working. And obviously it has for a majority of the year. But the fact that they struggled to convert a fourth down early in this game and then just kept going at it, kept going at it,

even when it failed them in the red zone one time, I think that's another testament to some of the growth that he's had and I think why this has worked on on that side of the ball for them. It's such a a good thing to bring up. And I think he's shown in both of his stops since being in Atlanta, I think he's shown real self-reflection in how he can get better at his job. And in Dallas

it was about how can I add some tweaks to what I'm doing as a defensive coordinator? And this time around, I think it's how can I make sure that I'm maximizing my choices as a head coach? You know, if I'm going to be a sort of CEO head coach, can I get all the little things right? And I think that he's shown an ability to do that. He's

done a really, really good job at getting everything in line and the way that you need to when you're in that role. Todd Bowles, on the other hand, the 10 seconds clicking by between taking timeouts at the end of that game combined with deciding he did not want to go for it on that fourth and three and just deciding to tie it. It's just a classic example of, oh, it's a tie game. Of course I'm going to tie the game. Well, it's a tie game for now. You're giving them a chance to go down and win the game when you can convert a fourth and three and potentially do the same for your end. So I think that the situational decision making from both head coaches in this game, that gap ends up mattering. I especially thought the bull stuff was confusing. One, the time at

which he's not taking timeouts and just letting time run off the clock at multiple points this season, but especially in this game was really frustrating. And then two, not wanting to go forward and give yourself the chance to win the game. I know we all hate the goal line fades and it's a very like simple, obvious answer. You have Mike Evans, man. This is like one of the three people in the world where I think everyone would be like, all right, that's a fine play here, actually. Let him go do it, especially against his, I can't even really call Latimore, his arch nemesis because I think Mike. He wasn't even in by the end of the game, though.

He abused him so badly that he was no longer in the game. I mean, that just speaks to the point. Just let him go get the ball. Speaking of the Bucs, you know, for each of these games, we've done this for all of our playoff shows since we started this podcast. I like to do just like a short post-mortem for the teams that lost because I think that these are usually worthwhile conversations. As you think about this buck season, as you think about this team moving forward, what's at front of mind for you? I mean, I think it's frustrating that Bulls

has had such a, like he's been here for a long time and for the defense to play as poorly as they did and to look as out of sorts as they did and to for a majority of the season just not have answers for as long as they did and feel like they're doing a little bit too much of the stock standard. We just want to throw our fire zones and we're going to pray that they work and we're going to stop the run. That's cool when you're the best run defense in the league and you actually have at least like one premier pass rusher that is going to help facilitate some of that stuff. The fact that they didn't have that this year, I think you could really feel it. And then add that on top of a couple of secondary injuries. I think you just really saw them

struggle to find answers. And then I think you said this on the show coming in. It's going to be really, really hard to find another play caller as good as Liam Cohen, assuming he leaves. You know, obviously he might not, they might lock out and he might stick around. But if he leaves, it's going to be really hard to replace that. So there's a chance that you have lost whatever your structure is on defense. And I'm not sure if they're going to get any better on offense. It's a tricky spot to be for them. I'll be really curious what the dialogue looks like with Bowles and with Cohen after the season. If Bowles ends up staying, and he's been deep into his career. I think him retiring isn't necessarily off the table. And if he does that, do they just promote Cohen to be

the head coach, which they've done before. That happened when Dirk Cutter ended up taking the job way back when when James Winston was the quarterback. Because I think those considerations that you're laying out, those are very real. The offense is what was the driving force of your success this year. And if you're going to move on from that, potentially, you're going to lose that. What does it end up looking like? As far as the roster construction of this team, you forget that they're still kind

of paying for some of the financial decisions they had to make post Brady. Like, their 2025 cap, as I'm looking at it right now, like they have Ryan Jensen counting for $12 million against the cap. Shaq Barrett is still counting dead money against the cap. And the fact that he's back right now is very funny. So there is not a ton of financial wiggle room here, the way that I had to move money in Godwin's contract around, for example. If you were just thinking about positions or just players where I'd like to see them add a little bit here,

what would that be for you? I still think they need a little bit more off of the edge. And then they have a lot of decent defensive backs, but I think outside of Winfield, they don't have another, like, true, true difference maker. I think getting one more guy, particularly if they could be at the other safety spot, that to me is where I think you could really start to change the complexion of how this team works. Yeah, they're picking 20th, obviously, as a playoff team. So we'll see what avenues they had.

They have to add a little bit more talent to that roster this off season. And I do think the coaching staff considerations and questions are going to be worth monitoring here over the next couple weeks. Let's get to our next one here. The Eagles beat the Packers 22 to 10. And the biggest story of this game for you is what? I just, the Packers, I think this game kind of went about the exact way that we thought it might, where they just very obviously were outmatched in the talent department, really, particularly on when their offense was on the field and the Eagles defense was on the field.

I actually do think the other side of the ball went a little bit better for them than expected, but I just think for a majority of this game, you really saw the Packers. inability to move the ball on a defense that doesn't really give you a whole lot of gimmies. And so if they're not going to give you a whole lot of gimmies, you need some explosive players to go find and go make plays. And I think with Jordan Love, clearly not looking 100%. Like that is one thing I really want to point out. If you just look at all of his throws outside of the numbers, he very obviously was not driving on the ball the way that he used to, or he was, you know, when he was a little bit healthier before this hand and elbow injury.

So I don't know, man. This just felt like an offense that didn't have enough explosive of answers and it very clearly caught up to them in this game. It's a pretty big bummer for your defense to play the way that it did against this Eagles team and for you to the whole game never really feel like you have a chance. It just felt like they were out of it the entire day. The Eagles had a 40% offensive success rate. Saquan had a 28% rushing success rate. And for that to happen and for your defense to put up that sort of effort, like the

interior of the defensive line I thought had a great game before his bizarre personal foul, T.J. Slateon had a lot of really nice moments. I thought the defense played so well. And for that to just be inconsequential because of how poorly your offense played, imagine saying that about the Packers like two months ago. I literally can't because, yeah, two months ago, it would have been, we're scoring all these points and we're running the ball on everybody. We're getting 400 yards a game in our defenses.

They were starting to turn it on at that point. But it was still like, this is probably how they were going to lose games. The fact that they shut out what is, you can make a. case that purely on talent, like this is the best offense in the league in the Eagles, for them to play them the way that they did, especially on the interior of the offensive line, right? Because I think we came into this game saying that the Eagles offensive line obviously had an advantage. They have an advantage against almost anybody. And so for them to actually- And that's what it felt like early on. Think about that first touchdown of Johan Johnson. I thought that was going to be the entire way the game went.

And it just wouldn't. It just wasn't. It's partially because they were turning up the heat a little bit. They started pressuring a little bit more. But even when they weren't, they started winning some of one-on-ones inside in ways they just weren't early in the game. That's exactly what it is. They were actually winning their one-on-ones, which I just think for a majority of this season, they weren't winning a whole lot of one-on-ones either on the edge or through the defensive tackles. It's why we've had to throw Edger and Cooper at the problem a lot of the time.

So the fact that they were actually winning their matchups, and again, you just didn't get paid back for it on the side of the ball that's supposed to be the moneymaker for this team. Very frustrating way for this thing to end. The biggest difference between the two offenses today, is purely turnovers. The fumbled kickoff to start the game and giving up a touchdown on that drive and then the interceptions from Jordan Love, listen, he may not be 100%.

He has to be better than he was today. Like point blank period. And he has to be better than he's been for long stretches of this season if they're going to justify what they've paid him and what sort of roster building burden that's going to be. The way that his contract is structured, he has a $30 million cap hit next year. So they've really backloaded that thing to the point that it's 75. million in like 2027. They can still add talent to this team. And we'll get to that in a little bit. But they have paid him to be a difference making quarterback. And I think too often for stretches of

this season, that's not what we saw. He was banged up for huge chunks of this year. But at the end of the day, the final product for most of the year is not what they need from a guy that they have invested in at this level. I don't necessarily disagree with that. I mean, I still think there's not that many quarterbacks that would have a truly elevating performance like with a roster like this. I still think especially with how banged up they were by the end of this game. And with coming into the game with not having Christian Watson and not having your explosive part. That was actually another thing I wanted to touch on. Only 24.2 of 24.2% of Love's throws in this game went beyond 10 yards.

That is his fourth lowest rate of the entire season. And that's kind of what the game felt like. It felt like they were trying to nickel and dime against a. this Eagles team that, like I said earlier, they don't give you a whole lot of gimmies and they don't give you a whole lot of conversions on those plays. Obviously, Jaden Reed has, I think one that he, you know, catches fairly short and pops for the 20-yard gain. But other than that, like a whole lot of those just didn't work. And that's just not really loves game. Like when you think about Jordan Love, you think about we run to set up play action, he's going to chuck it down the field. And

obviously they tried that. Sleigh picks him off one time, which again, to me kind of goes back to him not looking right. That ball was a little bit underthrown, which is typically not a problem for him on those throws. So I just thought Love didn't look right. They're losing guys for the entire game. And it just felt like their game plan coming in through the passing game just didn't make a whole lot of sense to begin with. And then I think when you start to saw bodies drop, they just didn't have that many good pivots off of it. The game plan is a great thing to bring up. And I want to hit that in the second. The one stat I wanted to bring up about Jordan Love because it was shocking when I looked at it. If you look at what he did in this game, he was actually worse.

when not pressured the final numbers, then he was when pressured. And by EPA per dropback, this was the ninth worst performance of the season for a quarterback on plays where he was not pressured per EPA per dropback. So of those nine, five of them, four of them, belong to DTR, Bailey Zappy, Brandon Allen, and Drewlock. So that's what we're talking about on an efficiency level on those dropbacks today when Jordan Love was not pressured. I think part of the issue is what you're talking about.

I was disappointed with what the plan was for the Packers offense today. And you mentioned it was a lot of underneath stuff. What they were going to consistently is it would either be a two by two set that they would motion to three by one or be three by one. And they were hitting like the number two and number three receiver just in the flat over and over and over again. It felt like they could just kind of take that consistently. But there was nothing down the field. And that's just not what this offense is. And it's especially not what this offense is when you're banged up.

Like, you need an explosive somewhere along the way. And the two explosives they hit were the slot fade to Dantavian Wicks against Reed Blankenship and the PI to Dantavian Wicks. Those were the two plays. And I know they were banged up and I know they were shorthanded, especially by the end of the game. But I think one of the best things Matt LaFleur has done over the last few years is his ability to create game plans while shorthanded. And the idea that we really didn't get deep into the bag at all. There were no scheme touches for Jaden Reed. It all felt a little bit lifeless and a little bit white knuckly throughout this entire game.

And I think you could feel that. I think you could just feel on edge how on edge the entire offense was. And that was exacerbated by losing receiving talent and being on your third left guard by the end of the game. White knuckling is like the perfect thing. It just felt like they sometimes you go into a game knowing that you can win five yards at a time. And so you set up the entire game plan that way. I mean, the bills kind of did this in this game. And obviously they hit explosives too, and we'll get to that.

But with the Packers, it was like they were hoping that they could win the game, five yards at a time, if that makes sense. They're like, they're just praying. There was a lot of hope in the way that they were playing today. Yeah, they were hoping that we could run the ball okay and actually did run the ball fairly well. And then they were hoping that some of these underneath balls would work out and that Jordan Love wouldn't throw any picks. Neither of those things came to fruition.

Jordan Love threw a lot of picks. Obviously, the third one is like. the game's basically over and it doesn't matter. But that underthrow where he throws it down the right side line and Slay makes a beautiful play on the ball and picks that one off. And then the interception to Bonn, that one is the one that I more put on love. The underthrow where Slay picks it off, that to me, it's just a great play. That to me can go back to some of his velocity issues.

I think he was struggling with. The one that Bond makes where Love is trying to throw that dig in from the right side and Bonn is playing that middle hook, love thinks that Bonn is going to drive down on Kraft kind of playing that over the ball, shallow, like underneath route. Bond doesn't drive on it at all. And to me, this is like opponent scouting. This is him knowing that Love wants to throw the dig. He stays a little high, floats right back into it and picks it off.

Those to me are the plays where it's like, all right, Jordan Love, we're going to go into year three next year. We should probably cut a few of those type of interceptions out. And you mentioned the play by Bonn. You mentioned the play by Darius Slay. I mean, the Eagles defense was excellent again in this game. And the two other guys that I want to point out, because they were, they announced themselves from the moment this thing started.

Nolan Smith putting his face in Elton Jenkins' shoulder on that first play of the game, and Jenkins goes out on that play. And on that same play, Nicopi Dean is just flying downhill. And before Nikobe Dean got hurt in this game, he was playing really, really well. And Nolan Smith was a force throughout this game. He had a big sack on third down, an inside move on Zach Tom. He, there was a great call by you about the impact he might have on this thing. And you saw that. I mean, you saw a bunch of those Eagles guys that have made this unit feel different than it did a year ago really show up in a big way in this game.

Smith on the first drive really embodied. I'll be honest, I didn't think Smith was going to do a whole lot as a pass rusher. And so the fact that he has that first big third down sack, I think he gets another one laid in the game. He was doing a really good job in past protection, or as a pass rusher. To me, it was in the run game. I said he's going to throw his body at people and literally first play from scrimmage on that side of the ball. throws his body into a guy who probably has 100 pounds on him and helps make the play. That to me, I think, pretty much set the tone for what you saw for almost every other snap on this side of the ball outside of, again, the one Jacobs play and the one replay. Like other than that, they pretty much dominated this game physically. What I was concerned about on the Packers side of this is that if you, over the course of the game, even if your defense is playing well, the Eagles are too talented for you to hold them down. the entire day, even if your plan on defense is good and even if you're giving them issues. At some point, they have too many good players. They're going to get one.

And that's exactly what happened on that Dallas-Cotter play. And I was thinking it like 90 seconds before he scored that touchdown. It's like, you have let them hang around too often. They have too many good guys. There is going to be an explosive player to you by the thought this thing is over. And then on a second and one, the Packers are like, we need a negative play here. They're in field goal range. We need to do something to change this.

They bring a cover zero. Jalen Hertz gets it out to Dallas Goddard immediately. He puts Carin-Valentine in the ground on his way to scoring a touchdown. And that's what happens. You can do a really good job against this offense and check almost every single box that you want to. But they have too many good players for you to keep the game that close for four quarters. Something is going to happen that does not go your way. I honestly think the call is more like instructive to what was happening.

here where it's like you said for a majority of this game they were playing well but i think they probably knew these guys are too good that eventually they'll get one and on that drive they were driving like it had only taken them a few plays to kind of get into field goal range there and then you get into second one and i think jeffey said this is an oh shit call like we need a play right now and they tried there was some emotional blitzing from jeff athlete today there was a little bit of emotional blitzing from jeffley and some of it worked i mean and some of it didn't and this was the one where it Most did not, where you give Goddard, you know, one-on-one with a lot of other corners in space, especially a smaller one like Valentine, stuff like that is going to happen from time to time.

The Eagles plan today, and just the way they approached this game, I thought was notable. On a lot of third downs, you know, and they were, they got hurt by some penalties early on. They had some TFLs on early downs where they were playing behind the sticks a decent amount of this game. And essentially every single time they were, it was a lot of give-up place. There's a lot of third down handoffs. And so I'm wondering, do you think that is we have a ton of faith in our defense? Or is that something that we should pay attention to moving forward? Because Jalen Hertz, once again, was not very good in this game.

And you can get away with that against a banged up Packers offense. It's going to be harder to get away with that against the teams that you're going to have to play for the rest of the NFC playoffs. I would say some part of it is this is just kind of their identity, their identity. We don't want to make mistakes. We want to trust that we can run the ball. we don't want to make the game volatile. Here's the thing, though. Teams only opt into that when they don't trust the quarterback to begin with.

And that to me is kind of what this came down to, is that they were just all of these instances where instead of, you know, third and 12, and we're going to give our guy a chance. If you take any other top eight quarterback, their team is giving them a chance. This game, the Eagles just really did not want to do that. I think for their first four or five third downs, it was like run, screen, screen, run. And then finally, when they did go to a dropback, I think it was a third and 13 that hurt scrambled for eight and was still a handful of yards short. So I was just frustrated that they didn't try.

And I think there are going to be other teams where maybe the quarterback's not great, but the receiver talent is also not good or the offensive line is going to be inhibitive in these moments. It's the Eagles, man. That's not a problem. You have one of the best offensive lines in the league and you have AJ Brown. And so I just thought it was a little bit weird that they didn't want to inject a little bit more juice into this game, especially early on. And when they were doing some of these, the Packers had only had the ball like one time. So you don't know for a fact that you're going to have a great day on defense. I think the fact that so early on they were conservative was a little bit concerning.

That's what I was going to bring up. By the time you get deeper into that game, you probably have a sense that they're struggling to move the ball. But they really did operate that way from the start, even before knowing what the complexion of the game was necessarily going to look like. As we think about the Packers and we project them moving forward, where are you at with this Packers team right now? What is your temperature on them? I still have a lot of faith in the general direction of this team, and I still think that the floor of this team is really, really good

because I think basically what they were for the entire season is they were the team that was going to beat up on anybody who was worse than them, but you run up into this top tier of teams, these teams that are your 10, 11, 12 win teams, they're going to struggle a little bit. And I think that's for a couple of reasons. One, we've said it before. On both sides of the ball, they kind of just lack star talent. And when you add that on top of your quarterback being hurt for half the season,

you're going to have some of these issues where you just struggle to go punch for tunch with the top teams. We also have to remember they are the youngest, like, snap adjusted team in the NFL. And so to me, it's still. And when you look at the other teams that are in the bottom five, it's like Las Vegas, the New York Giants, Jacksonville Jaguars, it's the Arizona Cardinals. It's all these other teams that we know are bad or very obviously still a step or two away. So the fact that the Packers even got here to me is impressive, but I still do think that they need one or two more stars to really kind of kick this thing into a different gear.

We talked about this heading into it. The lack of high-end talent is something that you can feel. And when I look at this Packers team and I think about their recent draft history and just the process and the experience of watching them, it kind of feels a little bit about the discussion we've had with the bills over the last couple years where it's hard to argue. you with the job that Brian Kunkunkunst has done overall in building this roster. But the problem is you got a lot of Romeo Dobbs and Zach Tom type guys in the fourth round, and you haven't found a lot of difference makers earlier in the draft.

Right. So let's go back over the last three years. 2024 will throw out. Jordan Morgan was hurt. He didn't play for a good chunk of this year. I think Edgerton Cooper and Javon Bollard encouraging what we've seen from them so far. I'm excited about what those guys can potentially be. Then last year, Lucas Van Ness with a 13th overall pick.

Luke Musgrave with the 42nd overall pick. A year before, you have Quay Walker and Devante Wyatt in the first round, Christian Watson with a 34th overall pick. The year before that, Eric Stokes is your first round pick. There just have not been a lot of difference-making players in the early rounds for this team. And they've done such a good job in building out kind of the tissue of this roster that it's hard to really quibble with the overall work that they've done. But I still think that you feel that vacuum of high-end talent and you especially feel it

when you're comparing what you are to a team like the Eagles that has a ton of it. Exactly. This was probably the game where you're most starkly going to feel it, right? When you have the star power team, especially the star power offense, and then you have a team that is more built by being the sum of its parts. To me, if even one of those guys, especially on the offensive side of the ball, was a pro bowl level player instead of just like a solid guy to have out there, it would completely change what I think this team could get away with.

but that's just not the case. And they've struggled to get these guys who are like star level talents. Like if they had a receiver that was, I don't know, the 17th best receiver in the league, instead of, you know, guys who are a little bit, you know, a tier and a half below that, who was at the top of their thing, I really think that would unlock so many different things. But because they're always trying to squeeze the absolute most out of these guys, instead of just having one guy we can send her the whole thing around, it's hard to be able to be one of those top tier teams without that.

And comparing them to the bills, the bills can be that. team where they have a lot of doubles, especially on offense, because their quarterback is such a multiplier. Their quarterback lifts everything else. And I think the jury is still out about whether Jordan Love is the type of quarterback that can lift everything else. Matt Lafleur is a, is a multiplier. He is a good play call or he has done a good job of setting this offense up for success. I think overall, they have a lot of pieces to work with. But I think there is still a question about whether the quarterback can be that type of player, especially now that he's paid like one. Like you have to be when you get that sort of contract.

And that is the situation the Packers are in right now. They have a lot of flexibility this soft season, right? I mean, they haven't. They paid a lot of guys, but they still have like 50 or so million dollars in cap space. If they move on from Jair Alexander, which I think might be a possibility, that frees up a little bit more. I mean, they can add some pieces in free agency. And ironically enough, like they need their guys like Zach Bonn. Like they need to go out and have those sorts of hits to just kind of elevate this roster in ways that

the draft hasn't necessarily done to that high-end level over the last three or four years. If they, to me, had what, like, the Bucks did this offseason where you just fix the interior of the offensive line a little bit, that could be their version of getting into this thing. Instead of Zach Bonn, let it go be your Ben Bredison. I don't know who that would be in this free agent market. I haven't looked at all the free agent cards, but that would be sick. All right, before we move on, let's take a quick break. Let's get to our next one here.

The Bills beat the Broncos 31 to 7. we thought that this game might be, I don't know, a little bit closer than the line might lead you to believe. We thought that the Broncos had a chance to be quietly frustrating against these Bill's team, against this Bill's team. Turns out, not the case. Spills offense brought it in the most pronounced way possible. The Broncos were a very good defense this year, like a very good defense down to down. The bills in this game, 6.7 yards per play, 51.3% success rate per true media. the Lions led the league at 48%. The Ravens led the league at 6.8 yards per play, which is a historically good number.

So down to down against a really good defense, the Bill's offense was about as good as you possibly could have asked them to be in this game today. And you know what's crazy? I think if you told me that, like, if you just told me that at face value that, hey, the Bill's had a historic day on offense, I'd be like, man, Josh Allen must have went crazy. And listen, he had a pretty good game and the numbers do look really good. But to me, I think especially early on, he was kind of a little up and down. And I think you started to see the fruits of all of this development that this offense has had over the years, whether it's investing an offensive line over the years, trying to get new running backs in, changing the offensive coordinator midway through last year. Like you're seeing it all to come together.

Like early in this game, I think especially in the red zone, the first two drives. Josh Allen was a little bit shaky, a little bit more antsy, felt like he was throwing the ball really hard. And he still made some good throws on those drives. Don't get me wrong. But he just looked like, okay, this is a little bit uneven. Two years ago, if Josh Allen started a game on even, I'd be like, oh, man, here we go again. He's going to do something really weird. But then you started to see over the course of the game, instead of asking Josh Allen, like, hey, man, we really need you to go in the game.

They can slow it down for a little bit. They can take a breather. They can lean on some of these screens. They can open up the play action game. They can put six offensive linemen on the field and run the piss out of the ball with James Cook. like they just, they can take the load off of Josh Allen for four plays and then let him kind of catch himself and get back into it. And that's how you finally get him getting the splash plays in the second quarter, in the

third quarter, in the fourth quarter. It's just a beautiful thing for this to come together for them the way that it has after years of trying to build to this. I love putting it in those terms. This is years in the making this version of this version of the bill's offense. And the way the phrase that Nate and I used to use a lot was just something. that can calm the heart rate of this offense and even the quarterback, like sometimes literally. And that's what the run game and the way that they've built the offensive line allows you to do.

The fact that they just came out with six offensive linemen 16 times in this game and said, listen, all that like stunting and run blitzing you do because you have undersized players along your front, we're not going to worry about any of that. We're going to get into condensed sets with six offensive linemen. We're going to motion Matt Collins into the sea gap. And we're just going to run nine guys down. downhill at you over and over and over again and dare you to stop it. And you combine that with some of the other schematic wrinkles that we saw from the offense

and the fact that in these moments, Josh Allen can just feel like a force of nature. And in the playoffs specifically, because they run him more, when they have like third and less than three, it just feels automatic because he's either going to scramble or they're going to run quarterback power with him on third and three where he's just catching the ball. from the shotgun and looks like an absolute bulldozer. So you combine all of those things, the ability to have the steadiness on offense because of the run game and asserting yourself physically, some of the wrinkles that I do want to talk about, and the quarterback who can feel like a hurricane in moments where it's necessary,

and that's the final product of this version of the bill's offense. The six offensive linemen stuff, I know the bills have done this all year. I definitely expected them to do it in this game. first of all, 16 times is crazy. And when I saw that... I think it was the most that Alec Anderson lined up as a tight end this season. Because there have been games. I think week 18, he played half the snaps of guard.

So it's hard to figure out exactly how many times he's done it. But this is up there for the most times they've done it in a single game. It was, they really thought they could hone into it. And I guess when you think about it, kind of like in the terms that you said, if this is going to be a lighter front where the edges aren't the biggest guys and the linebackers are not the best of coming up and hitting, like, Yeah, man, let's just get a little bit heavier and run at them. But I looked it up on true media and I was, you know, as the game was going on, I was like, man, they're doing this a lot.

Is this something Denver has struggled with over the course of the season? Because sometimes that can be why you would do a game plan thing. I looked it up. Denver is, they were fine against it. Like they didn't see it that much. They only saw like a dozen snaps of six offensive line, but they were pretty good against it. And so this wasn't like a Broncos specific, oh, they stink at it. Let's just throw it at, you know, throw it at them.

I think this was just the bills thought because of the personnel matchup that. this could be something they really leaned on. And credit to Joe Brady for doing that. I think at times with the bills in the past, even under Ken Dorsey, sometimes they could just lose a little bit of their vision for like what their best pitch was at a given moment. This game did not feel like that at all. It felt like they knew what to throw at every single moment. Vision is a very good way to put it. And I think that's what they've had under Brady. And it's been impressive. And I thought he had a really, really good day today. Other than the run game plan, some of the levers that they were pulling in the passing game.

I mean, this Curtis Samuel touchdown is absolutely beautiful. So the broadcast did a good job of pointing this out. So they had a package where they were talking about the four by one formations that the bills use and they do it a ton. But beyond being in that four by one look on the Samuel touchdown, consistently in this game, they were using motion in some of those bunch looks just very quickly before the snap playing with the number count. So if you watch the Curtis Samuel touchdown, Matt Collins is, I think at the number one

spot in the bunch, he motions inside very quickly and then motion. back out. And at the snap, it changes just enough where now Curtis Samuel has leverage on Patrick Sertan because of that little motion, outruns them all the way across the field. It's a 55-yard touchdown. And so the really subtle ways they were using motions, stacks to kind of create separation and play with the defense's rules throughout this game, just one more little thing they did well on top of the run game stuff that we pointed out. And doing it out a four-by-one is particularly annoying because listen man every every defense it's devious it's devious every team has seen trips right you you rep this you practice this you've got this all in your playbooks there's not a whole lot of instances

where you see the quad uh four by one where where you've got to deal with that especially changing number counts at the end like it's just for them to throw that little wrinkle in there like i said coming in their half of their passing game is just designery BS but they are so so good at coming up with new wrinkles for it. And then for the other 50% of plays where they got to do some of the more vanilla stuff, you have a top three quarterback at the position. And he'll just make you right more often than not. So the fact that they've tapped into this, I think is really impressive.

And then I think another element of this that I thought was really impressive is, you know, again, this is not a series offense where rerun this personnel in this package to set up this blah, blah, blah. They are very much, they kind of make you defend both modes of offense where they do all of this six offensive linemen stuff. And then when they don't do six offensive linemen, they're in like 10 and 11 and getting all five out, all five eligibles out in the route. And so them just oscillating between two completely different styles of football, it's really hard to deal with. And as a defensive coordinator, I'm sure it racks your brain a little bit. It's, I totally agree with that.

And today, they even threw in some of the 21 stuff with Gilliam when they were trying to run the ball. Dude, he hits people. He's awesome. He's been useful. He has been a useful player for this offense for a long time. And if you can play some of that two-back stuff, it adds one more layer to the game plan. It's like, all right, now we got to prepare for the two-back stuff. And if you looked at what the Broncos did, I want to say it was on the second or third drive where I started noticing this. The bills would be in 11 personnel, but because Mack Collins is in there, they're still

very capable of running the ball. And the Broncos were starting to run a lot of penny looks where they'd have five down, but their nickel personnel was out there. And so they already, two, three drives into the game were making the Broncos try to find some tweaks because they were worried about how they were going to defend the run against some of these looks. And that's just what it felt like today. It just felt like Joe Brady was one step ahead of what Vance Joseph was trying to do throughout this entire day. And you combine that with a quarterback who's able to do what Josh Allen did on that fourth and one. And you have a day that

becomes a very, very big problem. The last thing I'll say about the bill's offense, that tie Johnson throw that Josh Allen makes, when the broadcast started to pan over to it in the back line, I was certain, even though it was Josh Allen throwing the ball, I was certain that was going to get defended. It just there was no way that that throw could be completed. When he threw it is preposterous. It makes no sense, dude. Like if any other quarterback does that, you're like, this guy's completely out of his mind. But with Josh Allen, you're at least like, yeah, maybe. But then as it panned over, I was like, no, that's a bad ball. There's no way. And then he makes it work anyway. We were wondering in man coverage and just in general who the guy in the Broncos defense was that

the bills were going to try to pick on. And I thought it might be the line. linebackers a little bit, and they did try to do some of that. But the guy that they went after over and over who had a time of a tough day was actually PJ Locke. He gives up the play on that fourth and one. That's just this spectacular play. Like, that's whatever. You almost get a hand on that ball.

But multiple big completions in this game, the go ball to Dalton Kincaid down the left sideline, that's a one-on-one throw against PJ Locke. They hit a big sail route out of a 12 personnel set to Dawson Knox early in the second half for 25 yards. That, I believe, was in man coverage against. lock, and then Knox just kind of posted up over the ball for another, I think, third down completion in the second half, and that was with lock and man coverage. So that was the guy when they had one-on-ones that they were consistently going after, and

there were some results there for Buffalo. On the other side, I will say, I had really been enjoying watching the Broncos offense over the last four to six weeks. I loved some of the stuff that they were doing with Marvin Mims. I felt like they were really setting up O'Nicks for success. I was disappointed with their approach today. I felt like even with the cascade coming from the bill's offense, this offense on the other side did not do enough to kind of match that. Them coming out and going run, run past twice on their first two drives of the second half and the game essentially being over after those two drives were done, I was like, I expected more from you, Sean Payton.

I expected a little bit more dynamism from you guys after what we had seen over the last month or so. especially in the second half, man. Like for the first half, I can understand why you would want to stick to a certain game plan that you thought would win this game, where run, run pass can theoretically shorten the game if you're running the ball well. You can keep time of possession on your side.

The bill's only had 10 points going into halftime, so it's not like they had run away with this game. It was 10 to 7. So in the first half, I was okay with being conservative, even if other than the first drive shot play where Troy Franklin, of all people, is scoring the first touchdown. Other than that, they weren't that effective.

But even that, I was like, all right, let's roll. Nick's letting that thing rip against quarters immediately. I was like, uh-oh, this could get interesting here. The first two drives of this game led me to believe it would go the way I thought it would coming in, where the Broncos get everything they want on offense, and then the bills stall out in the red zone. And it's like, oh, seven three, maybe we're going to get something exciting.

And then the Broncos offense just didn't do a whole lot for the rest of the day. But it is, like you said, in the second half where just so many run run past, it felt like they just kind of conceded the game and didn't want. Like, it was as if they were afraid to let their rookie quarterback go out and win a game. And I think there is a point where you want to protect him, right? And you don't want to put him in some of these bad situations where you're asking him to drop back 45 times against a smart defensive coordinator, a decent pass stretch, all that stuff. But at a certain point, I think they should have just let him lose. Like, at a certain point protecting him and doesn't do anything if you're just going to lose the game.

Like, at least go let him try to win the game. And the fact that they didn't do that, I thought was frustrating. The last thing I'll mention on that side of the ball, there was a moment where I was a little bit concerned about my Christian Benford takes from our preview show where I was trying to tell you that I really, you know, Christian Benford is better than we think. And Corwin-Suttain is a nice player, but I think that, you know, Christian Benford's had a really nice season. That was looking a little tough over the first, like, quarter and a half. You know, one of those plays, I'm making excuses here, but he's in cover too and Chris and Sutton runs a crosser all the way across the field. Like these are difficult asks in those moments, but eventually it comes back to Earth and I feel okay about giving you some shit about Christian Bedford on the preview show. I'll give you, I'll give you the cover two one.

It was what it was, but there were still some good one on ones where, uh, you know, my guy, Colin Sutton got. He pushed off on that one on the left side. That's what he does. He's like six three. And you got to against Benford. That guy's also bill. How else are you supposed to get open against that guy? You got to push him off.

But I was, I felt pretty good in the first half. And then second half, I was like, it would have been nice if Cortland Sutton made one more play to make me look good here. But it is what it is. The funniest part about this is I never talk or complain about the refs. It's only when my player specific takes, start coming under fire that I'm going to be mad about a non-call. Like, if my team gets a bad call, it's like, oh, whatever. This is just like the course of the game. But if Christian Benford gets a push off against Corlin Sutton, that's what I'm complaining about how the game is being officiated. Right. When I can go make a point about it on the show, that's what it really matters the most. Whether or not my team wins. It's meaningless. Who cares? Let's get to the Broncos side of this and just what it looks like moving forward. It's a hugely successful season for Denver. And to do this with the big chunk of Russell Wilson's dead money on your cap,

for Sean Payton to look so reinvigorated on that side, for them to really seem like they've found some defensive pieces and an identity with that front seven. It's tough when you get blown out in a playoff game. But if I were a Broncos fan and just thinking about the way this season is gone, what you got from Bo Nix, what your offensive line looks like. There's so many aspects of this roster and just the organizational health that I think you can really get excited about considering, I think, how uncertain everything felt about this team really over the last year or so, let alone what it felt like coming into the year.

It's a complete success. Like four or five wins better than I thought that they were ever going to get. And so the fact that they get here, and again, this game is disappointing, but I think the entire season was a huge success. I think when you draft a rookie quarterback like this, it kind of comes in two phases. It's like one, immediately, are we good enough to win with him right now? And then the next phase that everyone wants to get into is, are we, is this guy good enough that we win because of him? The second question usually just doesn't get answered with any rookie first year. And I don't think we have that answer for Bo Nix. But I think with what they did this year, with the defense looking the way it did, them stepping up a number of players on that side of the ball.

And then the offensive ecosystem, particularly off the offensive line, but also the play calling, the fact that they have a number one wide receiver. I think the team is good enough right now to really do some interesting things with Bo Nix like in this little timeline. That is a nice spot for them to be starting. And so again, we don't know exactly what the ceiling for all this is, but I think the fact that in year one you answered, can this be a good enough team around Bo Nix to get to 10 wins and we'll see if we can make it any better. that's a huge success, dude. They still have a good chunk of Russell Wilson's money on the 2025 books, but this team has $48 million in cap space. They've got a couple free agents like DJ Jones,

who has been key to their run defense and is still a nice piece. He's a free agent. Cody Barton's a free agent. But a good majority of this core is coming back, and they do have some flexibility. As you look at this roster, what do they need? Like, what are the first couple priorities you would stack up from a talent acquisition standpoint this off season?

I think on offense, I would say one more guy with some pop, like maybe out of the running back position because they, it seemed like they never landed on an answer at that spot. But I think even at the wide receiver spot, you know, Mims kind of has some pop to him, but he's also a gadget player. So you'd like someone who feels like a little bit more of a real wide receiver there. And then on defense, I think safety. I think that to me was their biggest issue for a majority of this season is that they just didn't have a guy back there who could who could cover as much ground. So I think if they could fix either of those spots or, you know, in an ideal world, both of them, that could really start to change things moving forward. I would just love to see them add some potential playmaking pieces at the non-receiver spots. Like, I think they probably still could use like a true number two receiver if that guy was available.

But the skill sets that they have where you have Sutton, Mims, you know, what valet is for you as kind of like a big body possession guy, I think you can probably get by with that if you have dynamic players at the other spots. Like a tight end. You could drop a tight end in this team. That was like truly a guy who was an inline player but also was an asset in the receiving game. I would love to see this offensive construction with a piece like that. And I'm with you on running back. And they're probably picking too late in the draft to do this.

But this is something I threw out. I think the Dane like a month or two ago. The idea of like Ashton Genty on this team with the pieces they already have in the offensive line that they have, I would really like. He wouldn't even have to buy new stuff. He's got the colors. He'd be ready to roll. Like, he is ready made for what the rest of this offense currently looks like.

That's a part of it. I wouldn't have even thought of that. He doesn't even have to get new gear. Like all of his Bronco stuff is just going to copy face right over. That's a hilarious point. But that would be the perfect player for it. Like, again, I think tight end would be great. But if they could get pop out of the backfield, then listen,

Bownix is probably always going to be like a low A dot player. He's a guy who is really good at getting to his checkdowns. And they're probably going to throw a lot of screens in this offense. and they've been good at it this year. It would be really nice if they had a guy in Genty, who had a little bit more if we can just get him the ball, however, give him a little bit of pop there. That could be all that this thing needs.

I think there are games where they've built the game plan around that. I'm not as concerned about like Bo Nicks pushing the ball downfield as some other people seem to be. Like he'll rip that stuff on digs. He'll push it in certain moments. Like I think that they've done a good job of not even necessarily protecting him, but they've built certain games. the early game against the Chargers, where he's throwing a bunch of screens, but the screens are working. So I feel like he's done enough to warrant the benefit of the doubt when it comes to

taking some of those chances when given the opportunity. I just feel like particularly with the vertical stuff, it's almost stuff that is like two and three man routes where you very obviously have to just throw it down the field. It's called shots. It's called shots. And some quarterbacks are like that. That's fair. Jared Gough is like that. And he's obviously been a really, really good quarterback. despite that because he's good at a lot of other things. And maybe that's the path for Bo Nix. But I just don't feel like he's actually a really good comparison. Yeah, like just the quick hitter.

He's more athletic at least. He's much more athletic. He's much more athletic. I'm not even talking stylistically. I'm talking about where he attacks and where the aggressiveness comes from. Because I would actually consider golf a fairly aggressive player despite the low A dot because of his willingness to rip some of those intermediate inbreakers. And I think Bo is shown a willingness to do that. Like, if you give him a dig route, he's going to take it.

So that level of aggressiveness, I actually think golf is probably a pretty good comparison there, even if their athletic profiles are very different. I really didn't think that that would be the spot I landed that they kind of play similarly. But yeah, now that it's out there, they kind of do. I think that Jared Goff's like pocket comfort is much more pronounced than Bo Nex's is at this point. But he had to develop that too. Jared Goss pocket presence was not good. He absolutely did.

So maybe Knicks can do it. We'll see. Again, there are still holes and warts with who Bonix as a quarterback. As a rookie, I think that he was much better than pretty much anybody could have hoped coming into this year. And there is definitely something to build on with him and this Broncos team. Let's get to our next game here. The Ravens run over the Pittsburgh Steelers. Final score is 28 to 14. I felt like the game was much more lopsided than that down to down. The Ravens run the ball 50 times in this game compared to 22 pass plays. The word that keeps coming to mind when I'm thinking about Baltimore's performance and game plan yesterday is just disrespectful. It was just disrespectful on pretty much every single level.

It was mean, man. Like I almost wonder if this wasn't the Steelers in particular if they would have tried to be this rude. I mean, everything that they like the fact that they had, what was it that one drive? where is it 13 plays where they just don't. It was 13 runs. There was a scramble in there. So I do think that's cheating a little bit, but it was, yes, it was mostly run place. Which is, it's crazy to get away with that.

It is completely, especially against the Steelers, like, the Steelers aren't the best run defense, but they've been a solid run defense all year. And the fact that they very obviously had no answers pretty much from the jump of this game, I think was concerning. You know, we came in saying the last time that these. two teams played. The physicality battle actually, I think, was kind of a back and forth. It was just that Baltimore did such a good job with moving pieces around, whether it was pulling guys or using motion to displace people. And this game in particular, I thought it was that they tapped

into the quarterback run game a little bit more and not necessarily Lamar Jackson pulling it every time, but just putting him as part of the run concept and tagging him as an option player, the Steelers had No answer for that. Their head was spinning this entire time. This felt like, what was it, 2012, the Kaepernick Green Bay game, where they just looked like they. I was at that game. Where they just looked like they've never seen that.

This was, even though they hand, you know, he gave the ball more instead of pulling it, it felt like that in terms of the way that this one went. All you need to know is on the play, on the Derek Henry touchdown that what the Steelers were doing for a good majority of this game is they were just trying to do like a scrape exchange with the read option plays where the men on the line of scrimmage would crash down and the line. backerwood scrape across. And even on that play, that's what they did.

And they screwed it up. Like, they ran, they ran themselves out of so many gaps in this game. And I think that was the concern we had in the week 16 matchup where their head spinning is the perfect way to put it. I literally had that in my notes. It's in, it says, Queen's head is spinning in all caps because it was. And you just saw them doing such a great job with it, whether it's motion, misdirection, the same way they were in week 16.

The perfect play to me in this game that kind of exemplifies this, the Derek Henry direct snap where Lamar goes in motion behind it. If you watch the all 22 of that play, I posted it on a blue sky. We use the term sometimes having the defense on a string. You watch the entire linebacker second level of the defense pull to their left side as Derek Henry keeps it the other way. And that was happening in this entire game. like Queen and Peyton Wilson throughout this game were just running themselves out of plays and just getting corkscrewed into the ground because of what the Ravens run game was doing. And I just did not expect that two straight outings, the same issues creeping up over and over

again for the Steelers team. I really didn't either. I thought they were going to be a little bit better than this. I just think the fact that this Ravens team could do this. I think speaks to a couple of things. I think it speaks to the fact that Todd Monkin, I think especially over the second half, half of the season has been even better than he was previously he's been a little bit more consistent. I think he's been a little bit better at picking on exactly what you need to do to like absolutely

bury a team. Like I think back to I think week 17 when they played Houston and they only, you know, where they just ran the ball all over them and they just hit him with trap plays over and over again. Like I think particularly in the run game, he's really unlocked something here. To me this game, because he can do anything. Yes, they can do anything. Yeah. And that's the scariest part. When you look at that 13 play drive. They've got, they're in jumbo personnel on first and 10 from normal downs and distances. That was insane, by the way. 30. I thought I was like seeing an illusion. Like when they lined up in goal line personnel on like the 23 on first and 10, I was like, this can't be correct. There's no way. They do that. They run counter out of that set. There was a 20 yard scramble from Lamar on that

drive. He had an eight yard keep where there was no linebacker scraping over. They were on a toss for 17 yards out of that goal line personnel. It's again, their ability to just do anything. They could run any concept out of any personnel grouping with Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry at the center of it. It's absolutely terrifying. I know we've said it like eight times this year, but the fact that we have two of the most rare players to ever play their position on the same team that is operating this way

with an offensive line that is playing this good. I'll never not think this is the coolest thing I've ever. seed, man. They are so much fun to watch. And then when they did drop back to throw in this game, the perfect play to me is the 25-yard throw that Lamar hits to Agor over the middle of the field in like the final minute of the first half. He's pressured, just like quietly escapes to his right, finding time, buying space, and just comes right back over to the field, Aguilar is a 25-yard gain. It's like he's playing with his food. I mean, it's just, it's almost cruel when they're locked in the way that they

were in this game. And that was running the ball on their terms whenever they want. wanted to and whenever they did drop back to pass, again, him just making whatever play was necessary. And even beyond him bouncing around the pocket and doing what he needed to do there, which again, another immaculate performance in that sense, on prime vision, they have usually the Skycam set up behind the quarterback. The touchdown throw to Bateman in the moment, that looked unbelievable. Like when he let that ball go, I was like, you cannot try that. And then he fits it in on the backline anyway, on this like deep cross draw on the backline. It was just he was he didn't have to drop back a lot in this game but when he did he was immaculate and then

obviously he what he does as part of the run game so um not a very like high volume game for lamar jackson but he he was incredible and then too i think it is funny that the tight ends were really the ones that carried this passing offense for the most part it was a lot of i say it likely and a lot of mark andrews and the last tight end that i wanted to mention which again this is such a nonsense point i was very excited to see charlie coller back in this offense i know he played in a week 18, but I legitimately think that they are more dangerous when he is in the lineup because of how good of a blocker he is. He had multiple key blocks on the second level on chunk runs for the Ravens in this game. So you just add one more layer to the personnel that makes this team good with him back.

He missed like five, six weeks. And you noticed him in this game when you go back and you watch all those runs on all 22, which I woke up at 7 a.m. to do this morning because I'm a very well adjusted person. I love this because you let me get away with the Stone Smart shout out on the last AFC preview show. So the fact that now you get your backup tight end here in Charlie Kohler, we're on even ground now. This is perfect. This is beautiful. Let's talk about the Steelers part of this. And not only what we saw from the Steelers on Saturday, but what the Steelers potentially look like moving forward. We started having this discussion a little bit on the preview show. It was almost like a preview of the Steelers post-mortem, and that Pittsburgh has arrived at a very familiar place

where they are completely outmaned against one of the really good teams in the league when they get into the playoffs. I mean, they've been down double digits essentially every single playoff game for the last like five or six years. You just feel the chasm between where this team is and where this roster is and where a team like the Ravens are. And I don't know what the path out of it is because it just seems like they're going to continue doing this. Tomlin is going to lift the floor of whatever this roster and organization looks like. They're going to win nine, ten games. They're going to sneak in.

They're going to get destroyed by a team that's significantly better than them. And they're going to have no real avenues to change the direction of things. Like there needs to be something that happens here with this organization to shift the inertia that has taken over here. I don't know what that is, but I think last night was a very good reminder that something needs to happen like that. You can maybe make a case there the most complicated. How do I fix this? Or like, what is the next step team in the entire league?

Because to me, I know some people have brought up the idea of firing Mike Tomlin. You don't want to be out in the wilderness like that again, man. Like, well, you don't want to go back to having to maybe win four and five games and not having a guy who really brings it together the way Tomlin does. I don't think, I would never fire Mike Tomlin. And I believe he signed a contract extension last off season. So he's going to be under contract. What I would potentially do if I were this deal is, and this is like solely in a vacuum. As somebody who can do the spreadsheet work here and think about what this stuff looks like with no consequences or downside,

the idea of trading Mike Tomlin for like significant draft capital, trying to potentially use that draft capital to find a quarterback, not in this draft, but maybe in the next one. just to shake things up in some way. I at least find that discussion interesting as a theoretical exercise. But if I were the people in charge of the organization, if I were Omar Khan or if I were the Rooney's, whatever, the downside that potentially comes with that is catastrophic. Like there's no floor to what that move can give you. It's really, really scary facing that sort of reality.

But I also think the reality that the Steelers have found themselves in is pretty scary. I think the best path out of this potentially for me is a Matthew Stafford sort of trade, where you give up big time draft capital to get a quarterback who can be a difference maker for you. But if you look around the league right now, like, who is that? Who would that potentially be? Like, there's no easy place for this to land. That's why it's so frustrating is that one, the only way out of this to me, the rest of the roster is good. Like, you've invested a lot in the offensive line. and I know that it's still young and obviously Troy Fauton who was injured this year, but like, I think

they'll be good on that side. The defense is mostly solid. Like, you have enough of these pieces that this is a solid roster. The coach is always going to raise the floor. You just have to figure out quarterback. But one, that is completely useless analysis because no, duh, every team has to figure out quarterback if they don't have it figured out. So that is not like, it's not interesting analysis or interesting advice in any way. And then two, like you said, I think even if they wanted to do that, go out and trade for a guy. Like, you know, years ago, it was the Cardinals landing on Carson Palmer or something like that. I just don't know who that guy is right now.

Like, Dak is probably not tradable. Gino Smith is kind of getting up there in years. And like, he's a good and not great player. And I still think that he would probably be enough to get them to the next tier. They would be more interesting. It would be more interesting. But it's probably still not enough to compete with Buffalo and Baltimore. And that's really the conundrum here is that you, the Tomlin,

has always been good enough to get here and not good enough to get to the next step. And so I just, they're in a frustrating spot because the only answer is get better at quarterback. But like, yeah, man, everyone wants to get better at quarterback. That's the most important thing that they could do. And that's the biggest difference maker that that could happen from a personnel perspective. But I don't think we should just hand wave away what the defense looked like in that game and just what the rest of the rock.

I don't think this team is a quarterback away from being as good of a team as the Ravens. Like, there are more issues than that. But I think, again, something to just change the inertia that has crept in here. They need that to happen. They need something to shake them out of this. I don't know what that is. And it feels silly to, like, criticize them for that without presenting a solution. But that's why this is a really, really difficult problem to solve.

And that's why it's especially a problem, too, because they've been like this for almost a decade now. Like, if this was a team that had only been like this for three years, I don't think it would feel like we were that compelled to, you know, you know, be so raw, raw about it needing to change. But the fact that it's been like this level of stale for almost a decade now, it starts to wear on you. Even if you realize, like, there's nothing terrible about this. It's just, you know they need something different. All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break.

Let's get to our last one here. The Texans run away with a game against the Los Angeles Chargers. Texans defense, we said this during our preview show, that we thought the Texans defense would have to carry them if they were going to do anything in the playoffs. And the Texans defense has been a top three unit by most metrics that you'll look at. There have been some low moments. They got blown out by the Ravens.

That can happen with this version of the Ravens offense. But the Texans defense still has a pretty impressive gear. Even conceding that, I did not expect them to be able to put together the sort of performance that they did against the Chargers yesterday. Dude, they were, I think this was the best performance from, like an individual side of the ball from anyone this wildcard. Like they were unbelievable. The Ravens offense would.

I don't know. The Ravens offense is in that conversation to me. I guess it's probably pretty close. I think it's probably a three-man race between those three, in my opinion. I think for whatever, and maybe this is me just being wrong about what I should have expected from this defense. I thought the Houston defense would play good. But I think with Baltimore and Buffalo, because of the quarterbacks, it's like, yeah, can just do that. And it's not that surprising to me. With Houston's defense, man, they looked

like the 2015 Broncos. Like this, they were unbelievable in this game. Derek Stingley put together some of the best corner tape I've ever seen run and pass in this game. He was phenomenal. Camari Lasseter was pretty good in this game. He had like an unbelievable tackle on a screen. I think it was the second and nine. And that was the moment where I was like, it feels like they are getting out like out punched in this game, the Chargers offense. which that's funny too, right? Because the Chargers built this whole thing, their whole narrative shift this off season was supposed to be,

we're going to get bigger, we're going to get tougher, we're going to run the ball more, we're going to be stronger than you. For the Texans to have a game this violent against the team that is supposed to be like that, that just really felt like this defense, really putting their stamp on what they can be. And it was a pretty cool reminder of what this team can really, really be

when they bring their A-plus game. Violence is a great work because that's what it felt like. the defense brought a level of violence the entire day. And that's, it's a funny misnomer about the Chargers, this team that, yeah, they're like a tough team.

They run the ball. They want to be. They've been one of the worst, they want to be. They've been one of the least efficient running teams in the league this year. J.K. Dobbins had a 33% rushing success rate in this game.

He had nine carries for 26 yards. That is more typical for this Chargers offense than them asserting themselves on the ground against most people. This idea of just being a defense and having a plan where, they can dismantle you and they can just overwhelm you. I saw that in week two when they played against the Bears. And it wasn't to that degree in this game, but the game plan and how they approached it,

when they want to play this way, and it's when they have these 5-0 looks and defined passing situations in these overload fronts, well, they'll play three defensive linemen on one side, they'll walk the linebacker down into the B gap. DeMico Ryan's been doing this for years. He's been doing this going back to San Francisco. they can be completely overwhelming in those looks.

And that's what happened in this game. When they got into those sets and the pressures and the stunts that come with them and the man coverage that they can play behind it, the Chargers had absolutely no shot. The Chargers finished 4 of 11 or 4 of 12 for 54 yards against man coverage in this game. The Texans blitzed on 71% of those plays. They had a 57% pressure rate. This is the bad one, though.

11 quick pressures against Justin Herbert in this game. It was a 30.6% quick pressure rate. If you look at every game in the NFL this year, that was the 13th highest mark for a quarterback with 20 attempts. Like four of those games are Jacoby percent games from the first six weeks of the season. And that was barely football. That was not football. But this was barely football for a good chunk of it.

Like how immediately they were creating pressure. and we talked about this. They did it in every single way. Sometimes it's De Niko Autry putting his hand in Jamari Sawyer's throat and getting in there instantly. Sometimes it's Will Anderson coming all the way around on a stunt. Even in moments where they were trying to move the pocket, which I thought they would do more of, the interception to Quentin Johnson is a great example. They're trying to move the pocket on that play, and Autry destroys the play.

It's a bad decision and a bad throw by Herbert, but the circumstances were just completely untenable for the Chargers offense for most of this game outside of like the first drive. The Johnson one to me is it really encapsulates the whole thing where this Chargers offense, to some degree, was always going to be outgunned in this. So you got to do some stuff that feels a little weird. And I would say most people probably think that rolling, half rolling to your right and trying to throw a deep corner out back to the left side is a little bit weird and aggressive. To me, though, if he could, if Herbert was able to set up on the place,

platform that he wanted to and actually make that throw, we know he can make it. He's one of the top five most talented throwers in the league and we've seen him make that kind of throw. It's just that, like you said, Danico Autry is immediately getting back there and forcing Herbert to drift right and kind of throw it off of one foot and he ends up under throwing it. And the fact that even when the chargers were trying to get to some of these, you know, off pitches where they're trying to do something weird to just get a play, a chunk play against this team, they couldn't find it. I thought that was to me, one of the huge parts of this game is that I thought maybe there was a chance to chargeers could just get lucky on a couple of these chunks. And obviously they did when they were

like down three scores. But at that point, the game was too late. But the fact that they couldn't get any and then Herbert was pressure, quick pressured on one out of every three times you drop back, you are immediately pressured. You can't play football that way. It's not functional. It's non-functional completely, especially against a coverage unit like this. The last thing I'll say to you bring up how much they played man coverage, how much they played some of these blitzes, especially with some of the 5-0 looks. That is at its core the most, what are you going to do, beat me kind of football that you can play. That is just you're daring them to win.

It's a f*** you football. Yes, that is fucking football at its finest. Listen, we'll talk about Justin Herbert here in a minute. He did not have a good day, but it was a dismantling. It was dismantling from top to bottom of everything about what the charges were trying to do on offense. On the other side of the ball, you brought this up coming into the game. What is, are they going to get those two, three Nico Collins chunk plays in the passing game? Because down to down, this offense continues to struggle and they did again in this game. They got those two or three

chunk plays to Nico Collins in this game and combined with what they did on defense, that ended up being more than enough. They got just enough of those Nico Collins placement. That's the funny thing is they put up, what was it, 32 points in this game. I didn't come away from this performance thinking, like, man, I feel so much better about the Texans offense moving forward because it was exactly what they've been, even at their best this season was still up and down as a running team for the most part, still kind of up and down in the passing game. But Nico's going to bail us out, and C.J. Stroud's going to make one cool play out of the pocket. And really for the first quarter and half, they didn't have any of that. And then they have that botch snap that C.J. Stroud has to bail out

to his right. It's their best play. the first half. That sounds like a joke, but that is literally their best play, is that he makes that throw. And it kind of activated him. It felt like he was a little bit antsy and a little bit just off, didn't have answers early in the game. And then he makes that play.

And it feels like a lot of things settled down for him. They start spamming the Nico Collins button. So still up and down. But when Nico Collins can make four plays like that, sometimes that's enough. You mentioned you felt like they scored 32 points, but it didn't see the offense did that much. It was 13 to 6, and then I was going back and rewatching all Strouds dropbacks today, and so I'm rewatching it on NGS, and it's 13 to 6 up at the top little scorebug,

and then I get to the next throw, and it's 25 to 12. Yep. So the score went from 35 to 13 to 6 to 25 to 12 without him completing a pass. That's how this game went for the Texans. I will say the 41-yarder he hits on 3rd and 5 to Collins coming over the middle to start the second half. That is a nails throw. He's getting to that.

He's progressing to that. He has a free rusher coming at him. Nico gets just enough separation at the top of the route. Stroud, as he does on some of these throws, he leaves it a little low over the middle. Nico has to go down for it. He catches the ball below his knees, somehow manages to track the defender,

like the safety coming down, catches it, gets, regains his footing, makes him move in the open field and somehow gains 41 yards on the play. Absurd player. Just like a truly absurd player. The guys where they're purely big and fast are a marvel, right? Like, D.K. Metcalf is crazy. The guys that are big and fast, but also have like this level of hand-eye coordination and balance, there's like four of them, dude. And the fact that Nico Collins has announced himself as one of them is crazy. And then the fact that they converted that play, That is the exact type of throw and the exact type of play that it felt like they made, I don't know, 20% less this season. And so the fact that they were, maybe 40% honestly.

But the fact that they could finally tap into it in this game, even if it took them a quarter and a half, that is mildly encouraging. Still would have wanted to see a little bit more, though. I was impressed to a degree with the Texans run game over the course of the second half of the game. I thought they actually got a decent job getting some movement on some of their double teams with that new version of the offensive line. Titus Howard had a really rough first half. But I thought that Jared Patterson and the guards got some decent movement on double teams in the second half. And I actually thought that Joe Mixon, independent of what was blocked for him, had some really nice moments in this game. Whether it was bouncing certain runs or just the physicality he was bringing, just throwing guys off of him.

I wasn't sure what Joe Mixon would do for this run game when they traded for him. I was like, really? Like, the end of his time in Cincinnati, I was not overly impressed with what he was doing outside of the circumstances. And I've been wrong about that. I think he's actually done a pretty good job. The efficiency numbers are bad, but the Texans run game infrastructure is really bad. So I actually think he's gotten much more than what has been set up for him. And I thought the second half of this game was actually another good example of that.

It was, it's funny, too, when we talk about runners who get more than what is. locked. Usually we say, oh, you know, it was blocked for three and he's a guy who will, you know, bang around for five. You know, that type of deal. With the Texans, it's blocked for negative one and he has to rummage around to go find three. And he does that at a much better rate than I certainly thought he was going to coming into the season. And then like you said, in the second half, they did better at it. I mean, their drive to put away the game, it wasn't quite as dominant as, you know, what the Ravens did when they had their drive where they're running it 13 times. But it was pretty dang close, which is, you know, for the Ravens, they do that, right? They built the whole thing to do this.

The Texans, I could not have imagined them putting the dagger in a game with that kind of drive. So the fact that they did it, even against the Chargers defense that clearly looked exhausted by that point in the game, it was a pretty nice little, you know, bow to put on that game for them. All right. Let's talk about the Chargers and let's talk about the Chargers quarterback in this game. because I just thought that some of the reactions yesterday were surprising to say the least. If your response to what happened yesterday is I told you that Justin Herbert wasn't as good as you nerd say he is, I will say two things. One, we have fundamentally different views about how to discuss this sport.

And two, you're just willfully ignoring the season that Justin Herbert had this year. I'm going to just lay out like my personal journey with Justin Herbert as a player. 2020 incredible rookie season, 2021, he was awesome. Like that offense that year, they were a top five offense. And coming out of that year, I was ready for him to like really take a step and be one of those ultra elite guys. And that didn't really happen. Like over the course of 2022 and 2023, I actually got increasingly frustrated at who he was as a player,

especially in that version of the Chargers offense. It was robotic. Like when I would watch him, I'd be left a little bit cold at the, I thought just the way he played was holding them back a little bit and was just depressing the ceiling of who he could be as a player and what your offense could be with him as a quarterback. And then I watched him this year. And this was the freest, most aggressive version we have ever seen of Justin Herbert.

And it kind of reinvigorated how excited I was about him with Jim Harbaugh and just some of the personality aspects that seemed to be unlocked. And if you look at what the Chargers passing game was this year, this is not a theoretical thing. The Chargers finished eighth in passing DVO way this season. With Ladd-McConkey, Quentin Johnston, Will Disley, they had 50 unblocked pressures, which is one of the top five rates in the league. Justin Herbert's pressure, time to pressure this year, was wedged between Drake May and Joe Burrow with a bottom five rushing success rate unit. Like, what the Chargers did on offense was objectively impressive given the circumstances around him.

So if we want to talk about Justin Herbert's playoff failings, we can do that here in a second. But this idea that like this is an indication of what Justin Herbert truly is, I think is a willful ignoring of what he was for the entire 2024 season. It's just completely ridiculous. It's such everyone says that they are above quarterback wins and then a quarterback they don't like loses in the playoffs and we all default back to quarterback wins. It's a completely ridiculous thing to do.

I think reinvigorated is the perfect word. I think we both felt he was, even though still good, a little bit more robotic the past couple of years. And you were a little bit worried he had some more the Derek Carr DNA than I think either of us wanted him to have in the way that he was playing. And then I think this year, all of that kind of went away. And he started to play much freer. And he started to play a little bit more aggressive. He was running more of this season. I thought that was really impressive.

The thing that I want to start with with this game is I think a lot of the times, when we analyze the game, we just look at X quarterback versus X defense and we kind of forget a little bit to recalibrate for exactly how well a defense played. Like, this Texan defense is good, but they played like one of the best defenses I've seen all season. Like, this is one of the best single game performances from a coverage and past game perspective that we saw from any defense all year. That is going to change how we should, you know, reconfigure, like how we're thinking about the quarterback performance, especially again when the offensive line underperforms, the run game can't do anything, and the only receiver with more than like 25 yards and worth

throwing the ball to is a rookie who, look, Ladman Kanky's great, but he's a rookie, man, against really, really good defense. So I was incredibly frustrated by that part of it. And then the second part of what I thought about this was, people are trying to paint this as, oh, she lost this game, so maybe he's not as good as you think. Okay, fine. But to what end do we want that to be true? Is it that I'm supposed to admit that, you know, I used to say Herbert was for sure better than Joe Burrow and now maybe I should put them on the same tier? I will concede that. Joe Burrow was awesome this year. But then who? Would Jordan Love have won this game? Dacquette, Matthew Stafford? Behind that offensive line against this defense? I don't think so. It's just like I don't understand to what end we're trying to knock Herbert down the hierarchy. There's a very small group of quarterbacks I would take ahead of him. But even this, talking about like the playoff wins aspect of this. I think using a single game, even a playoff game,

as like an immediate way to rank quarterbacks or talk about who's better than who, I think it is fucking stupid. And I think that type of discourse has made us collectively dumber as sports fans. Like this is not basketball. There are 21 other guys and these are single games. These are not series that you lose against other teams where there are nine other players on the court. But even let's say we want to talk about it this way and we want to do the playoff wins thing. Let's go through Justin Herbert's career.

In 2020, again, he is one of the best rookie seasons ever for a team that fires its head coach. I'm not really worried about them not making the playoffs that year. In 2021, they have a top five offense. They missed the playoffs because they have a bottom two combined EPA on defense and special teams. In 2022, they make the playoffs. They blow a 27 to nothing lead. They had four drives in the second half of that game. They kicked a field goal.

They punted. They missed a 40-yard field goal, and they punt it. If you want to put a 27-0 collapse on the quarterback, that's your business. Go with God. 2023, they crater. They completely crater as a team. They fired the head coach. 2024, he's back in the playoffs with the offensive infrastructure that we just talked about.

Like, in year five of his career, Peyton Manning had not won a playoff game. He lost 41 to nothing. In year five, in the playoff game that he played, he went 14 of 31 with two picks. Like, a couple playoff performances are not indicative of who a quarterback is and what is going to happen over the course of the rest of his career. And one game isn't. Josh Allen went nine of 30 against the Texans this year. And you could say, well, he had no Kalosha Kier. He had no Amari Cooper. Okay. So like the Jargers offense? Like what are we talking about here? So I just, listen, I think that there are elements of who Justin Herbert is that are frustrating. This game was an awful outing. The accuracy

concerns can be problematic. He's a bigger quarterback. His ability to kind of make guys miss in the We can talk about that, but I just don't think this is indicative of some larger thing that's broken about him as like a playoff quarterback or what he can do in some of these big moments. Like, let's see what happens over the course of this off season and what the Chargers can try to put around him in this version of the franchise before we make some sweeping declarations about what sort of player, Justin Herbert is. And the last thing I'll say, too, it felt because they lose this game. and I'll be honest, like he didn't play his best. He obviously did not play a great game. He missed some throws he shouldn't have, threw some picks he shouldn't have. But it felt like them being in this game to begin with was almost like a victim of his own success type of thing where

imagine if the Chargers fell one game short of the playoffs and he still had the season he had. We would be like, man, they fixed Justin Herbert. Everything was great. The Chargers are one off season away. But because they get into the playoffs and lose this game this way, we have to have this Herbert discourse when, again, like you said, nothing about the 17 games leading up to this would have led us here. So I don't know. It's very annoying that this ends in this particular way for Herbert.

Well, let's talk about the Chargers and the things moving forward with the Chargers. We were talking about this as we were planning out the show and doing our production conversation. Are you more optimistic about the Chargers moving forward than any of the other teams that lost this weekend? So the more I actually sat and thought about this, I think it depends on the time frame. If you were to say the next three years, I would think it's the Chargers because the quarterback is the best of all the teams that lost. I think Jim Harbar is a really good coach. I think the defense is going to get turned around. But the more I thought about it, I do think Green Bay is probably closer to next year only having to make a couple more changes for them to really kick into high gear.

Yeah, that's fair. Whereas I think the Chargers, it's like, this is still very much putting a lot on the quarterback. And they probably need more than we want to believe. So I think for next year, it's close, but I would probably still lean Green Bay. Three year window, yeah, give me Justin Herbert and Jim Harbaugh. I think I'd probably agree with that. I think the argument for the Chargers is that they need at least a piece or two along the interior of the offensive line. They need at least two pass catchers.

They need a running back. but if you look at some of the foundational pieces on the offense, I think you can make a solid argument that the two tackles and lad are more high-end players than any of the other players on the Packers offense. Maybe you can make a Josh Jacobs argument, but I just don't think that that rises to that level. We're talking about the impact on the offense, et cetera. So I think the building blocks, even if they still have a really long way to go,

I'm excited about that. I will say, I'm a little bit concerned about the Greg Roman aspect of this. That was also my one-year window problem. I don't think we probably have talked enough about that because the offense did overachieve relative to the talent. But I think that is something when we're considering the ceiling of this compared to the floor. The Ravens just had to go hire Todd Monkin in order to discover their ceiling. So I think that's at least worth considering as we try to project this team moving forward. That was also part of my math there.

Is that in three years, I would imagine it's somebody else next year might still be Greg Roman. So that's definitely part of it. It is funny, though, that you mentioned, I don't even disagree with the two tackles and then obviously Lamacconchi being better high-end players than anyone the Packers has. I still think it like player to player that Packers have more guys I'm okay with just putting on the field to start. It's so funny that they're different in that way. They have like the exact mirror opposite problems, which is why I think this makes it like

a very compelling back and forth. Yeah, I think I'm, you know, pretty enthusiastic about both and what their short-term situations look like. But the roster constructions and the strengths of them are definitely different in this moment. All right. That is all we've got. I'm pretty sure we're going to be coming your guys's way after the game tomorrow night. Right, Beller? I'm going to do it.

I don't know. Okay. So we're going to have a show recapping the Monday night game that will be in your feeds overnight into Tuesday in the audio feed. We will also be having a midweek show coming your way. So just an extra show after Vikings Rams tomorrow. That's really the only change to our release schedule. For now, that is all we've got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening.

We'll talk to you very soon.