The Athletic Hockey Show - 2019 U18 World Championship retrospective

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

On a special edition of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series, Corey, Craig Custance, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters look back on one of the greatest junior hockey tournaments of all time, the 2019 IIHF World U18 Championship, and discuss the unprecedented amount of first-rounders that participated, Team USA’s resilience after a brutal semi-final loss, the electric environment for the gold medal game, the long journey home, and more. Host: Corey PronmanWith: Craig Custance and FloHockey’s Chris PetersExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris Flannery Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Welcome back to the Athletic Hockey Show's Prospect Series. I'm Corey Promin. We've ditched Max Bultman for this week's episode. And instead we're joined by Flow Hockey's Chris Peters and Craig Custens for a special episode where we're not really going to be focusing so much what's going on in the NHL today or in the prospect world today. But the three of us are going to look back on the 2019 Under 18 World Championship. which the three of us attended in Umea and Orschilds speak Sweden.

And one of the main reasons we're looking back at this tournament, it's not just because we were there, but it's just one of the more unique junior tournaments that I can recall in my time covering hockey, one of the more special tournaments, not only in terms of just some of the big moments that happened, but also in terms of the caliber of talent that was in the event. What do I mean by that?

we'll look back at last year's under 18 World Championship. And I believe there were 10 NHL first round picks in the 2024 edition. And now there's some late birthdays that are going to get picked high like James Hagan's, Porter Martone, Logan Hensler. But so far there's been 10 players picked in the first round from that tournament. The year before, there were 22 players picked in the first round. And then the tournament before that, there were 23 players picked in the first round. The 2019 tournament had 36th first round picks.

A lot of them of the real high variety. You're thinking of NHL impact players like Jack Hughes, Matt Boldy, Maddie, Madi Bennears, Dylan Cousins, Cole Coffield, Lucas Raymond, Stanley Cup winner, Anton Lundell, Thomas Harley, three of the very best goalie prospects of the modern era. And Yaroslav Ascarov, yes, for Walspat Spencer Knight, all played in that tournament. So it was just a very special event. I'm going to get to Craig in a little bit and talk about some of the stories that he was working all when he was there. But turning to Chris, what's some of the major things you remember right off the top looking back of that tournament we were at five years ago? Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that sticks out in my mind more than anything is the fact that we had, you know, one of the great U.S. teams ever that did not win gold. We'll talk about that more when Craig delivers his recollections of that.

But I think that was one of the big things. Jack Hughes had 20 points, which at the time was the highest ever by an American in that tournament. You know, Yaroslavus Ascarov being lights out for Russia and almost getting them a gold medal in that tournament on his own, practically. you know, Sweden finally getting over the hump in that tournament, winning it, and in dramatic fashion. I mean, there are so many things that stand out to me, but the one thing that really, really sticks out is that shootout between USA and Russia. USA sends five first round picks over the boards and not a single one of them scores. And Yaroslavisgar, I was at the other end, and Spencer Knight is only allowed one in that shooting. out if I recall correctly. So just an incredible, incredible moment. And really, I think that the moment

in time where everybody that didn't know yet knew Ascarov was a dude. Looking back on that team, can you kind of like recall what the hype was on that team going into the tournament, not not even going into the draft, but just going into that tournament, all the accolades throughout the year, compared to other really good U.S. age groups, how would like just the hype on that age group compare. Yeah. So I remember I was at at ESPN at the time and I had actually, I believe, done a story where I asked the previous NTP directors of player personnel, you know, how they ranked this, this 2001 birth year versus the 1997 birth year, which included Matthews and, you know, Matthew Kach and a whole host of others, you know, three great defensemen, all sorts of different

things. And, you know, I think at the time there was certainly, it was kind of biased to whichever team you picked. But, but that was the thing is that we're like, is this the greatest NTT team ever assembled? Both Cole Cawfield and Cole Cawfield was on, on his way to scoring 72 goals that season. Jack Hughes set the NTP single season and career scoring records. You know, so it was basically like, you know, or he didn't quite get the career scoring record because that was Austin Matthews, but he got close. And so there was a lot of different things that kind of came together in that one. And the hype was, this is one of the greatest assemblances of American talent we've ever seen. I would even mention, you know, Alex Turcon, who went very high, even though

his career hasn't really taken off since then all. They'll actually think he's looked okay in the one or two games I've watched this year. Then you got Ken York in there too. Trevor Zegris is. good at him. Trevor Ziegers, John Beecher goes in the first round from that team. So that turns us to Craig, who went over to that tournament to try and focus on that USA team. Can you kind of talk through what, let's just say, your initial plans were going to this tournament? So I am not a prospect writer now or back in 2019. My pitch was different. I was, you know, like Chris said.

this was being hailed as the greatest American team ever assembled, like full stop. You know, Hughes and Cole, Cole Coffield, and like he was setting records and all, like, this was, and then Spencer Knight was supposed to be the best goalie prospect in years. And so my pitch was pretty easy. Like, I'm like, hey, they're going to go over there and win a gold. And I'm going to go behind the scenes with the coaching staff and sit in on meetings and sit with the players and just kind of build up to this big moment where they win gold and it's huge celebration and what a great idea by me and I can't wait for it to happen. And that was my

pitch to John Roblesque, the coach at the time. And he's like, cool, I'm in. You can come in and sit on all of the other things. And of course, as we know, they did not win gold. And I can tell you, I remember sitting in a rental car in whatever town that was in Sweden. And And calling Mark Wallamon, who is our enterprise editor, who was going to edit the story, basically in a full panic. And I said, Wally, I've been here a week. I haven't written any other stories. It's not like I was doing, like, you know, you guys were doing after game reports. Like, I wasn't doing anything but building up to this big finish.

And I said, you know, who wants the behind the scenes look at a bronze medal winner or whatever? I'm like, this is going to be the biggest waste of athletic startup money since we hired. Corey Prondman. And I, you know, Mark to his credit, Mark to his credit, reframed the entire thing, and it ended up being one of my favorite stories ever, and we can talk about it. But like, it was, it was, I'll never forget it. With that said, we'll take a break here. Well, Craig and I have a little bit of discussion off camera, and we'll come back and talk about the semifinal game. So we mentioned it before that the big semifinal game that happened in the turn was the United States,

against Russia. This Russian team was a good team that had the Silly put Coles in, which who didn't really pan out as Vancouver Hope when they picked him 10th overall. It was still a very good prospect. There was some other, you know, nice young players on that team like Shakir Makamadul and like Mara Kuzendinov. They were of underagers. And the big name prospect was their goalie, Yarosov Ascarov, who was also an underage on that team. He wasn't in his draft year when he had that big tournament. And against this loaded USA team, they were the clear, clear favorite in this game. And Chris can speak to this too.

Typically when you go to watch junior games or international junior games, if one team has the clearly better roster, they win that game 99% of the time. This isn't like pro hockey where goalies can have big nights or the puck doesn't bounce your way. The best team tends to win every game. So this was, you know, we went to this game and Chris, did you think there was any real chance that Russia was going to win? Not really, no. I mean, you know, I think that, you know, there's always a chance that something crazy happens. But, you know, this was one of those instances where I thought they got goalied a little bit.

Because if I remember correctly, you know, there was, it was probably that U.S. team's worst game in terms of, you know, they just, you know, they just. just weren't able to generate as much as they had previously done. But, but really, I, you know, you kind of go into it and you're like, well, you know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not real sure that this is going to, you know, it, it never had a great sense that it was going to be, uh, an easy game. Um, but I still thought, you know, this team always finds a way. Cole Cofield had scored a bunch of goals in the tournament already. He's going to find a way to score. And sure enough, he did, but in the end, you know, they still lost. And I can say that you usually don't find with the elite junior teams that goalies

steal the game from them, particularly underage goalies. That's a very unique thing to happen. But sure enough, that did happen. Yaroslav Ascarov was absolutely fantastic in that game. One of the best goaltending performances by it at the junior level that I had ever seen. and that he would follow it up the summer after the Hlinka Gretzky stealing the gold medal from a great Canadian under 18th team. I want to turn to Craig here because, as he mentioned before, he was working on a story up until that point, you know, thinking there was this inevitable finish where USA was going to win gold.

And, you know, and the tie turned on him a little bit there, maybe jinx himself a little bit by planning out such a meticulous story on a large budget. But Craig, what was going through your mind watching this game? Because Chris and I are just, you know, we're prospect writers. We're evaluating the players. We're just enjoying the moment here, this great hockey game. You've kind of have this whole idea that's, you know, based on the idea USA is going to win every single game at this tournament. And as you see the up and downs, the tie game, this game goes to a shootout. What's going through your mind?

Are you texting your editor? Are you just, you know, pacing back and forth? What was going on with you at that time? Well, I mean, if I remember correctly, you know, at that point, you two were in on what I was dealing with. Like, you know, the fact that I was in the press box and at the arena, like, people were like, oh, what's Craig doing here? And so worded travel that what I was working on. So it became this thing like, oh, man, you know, is this really going to happen? And, you know, I can just tell you, like, I think less about like me, honestly, because I don't remember it because it worked out fine.

and we can talk about the turn. What I remember about that day specifically was seeing it through, like going back behind the scenes with USA hockey and the players and going to the team bus after they had just lost that game. And just seeing how devastated these guys were in losing this game. Because like me, like, you know, Jack Hughes as captain of that team, like didn't mince words. He's like, we are here to win a goal. It was being black and white to him.

This is what we're here to do. And now as a young leader on a loaded team, he was going to have to figure out how do you get yourself back up and still compete. And really, like, and that was a conversation with Mark Wallam and my editor, he's like, that's the story. Like how does this superstar team? I mean, we've seen it in the U.S. many times, Chris, you can tell 10 of these stories where the U.S. gets upset and doesn't bounce back.

and they get their clocks cleaned in another game that doesn't really mean much to them. And it became, you know, you're going to learn as much about the character of these guys and how they show up against Canada in a game that's not for a gold medal, then you would maybe even a gold medal game. And so we just kind of switched the focus. But I remember talking to Ellen Hughes, Jack's mom, you know, I took a walk around the rink, you know, before that Canada game. She said something like that just like, you know, I used it in the story and I went back and looked,

but she said hockey has no feelings. Like hockey doesn't care like that you're a kid who was trying to win goal. Like what's going to happen is going to happen. It's how you adjust to it and how you react to it. And so like the second half of that story, if you read it, is the next day. It's what the coaches, they're watching film and they're bringing in these players who are devastated.

And how do you go back and represent your country and your legacy as leaders and stars on this young team so that when we talk about this in 10 years, or whatever it's been, not that long. You know, you have a good story to tell. I do know that when after the tournament ended, and we started getting into the draft process, that I know that NHL teams would often be talking about that game with the players, strictly the high-ranked players,

and kind of using it as a way almost to kind of see how they went through adversity. It's almost like, like, I know at times in their comments, on by interviews, like the players would, like, if they asked them, like, what, you know, ask them about, you know, your accomplishments or what are you proud of? And they'll say, well, we were part of what, you know, the, arguably the best NTP team ever and the teams would push back. Well, you didn't really win anything. So how can you say you're among the best teams that they were trying to gauge their reaction

and see how they felt about that? And it's, I don't know, like, Chris, like, looking back on that, do you think this, how do you think that loss shaped the perception of this team? well yeah i mean i think it it ended up kind of shifting the focus back in that that argument that i was talking about is 97 better than than uh than oh one well 97 one so yes you know so it was like kind of kind of like that kind of thing but i i think also in terms of how it it shifted the perception of the players i mean i i think everyone knew how good that team was the fact that they came back and just absolutely

steamrolled Canada the next day because like that the way that double IHF tournaments are set up and that was an absolutely loaded team it was a good team Canada yeah and they didn't look like the belonged on the same ice it was insane you know because like even like

they had brought in Bobby Brink from the outside and like he came in he came in like seamlessly and was like he actually came late he was jet lagged in his first game and I think he had like two points or something like that There was a lot of stuff like behind the scenes. Yeah.

There were 14 NHL first round picks on that team Canada. That's insane. On Canada? They did not look like they belonged. They did not look like they belonged. And that was the crazy part about it. But I will say the double IHF, the weight tournaments are set up. And this is particularly difficult at the U18 level because I think the emotions are so much

bigger at that point. It's less pressure and less focused than the world juniors. And so maybe, you know, it's not. But for those. kids, especially for the NTP kids, this is two years of work. And you lose that game and you have to turn around in less than 24 hours because they had the late, if I were, or no, they had the early game because Sweden was playing too. Um, so they, they go and they have to turn that around and play Canada, arrival with, with all that talent that they had. And, you know, that's, that's one of the games.

I, I remember I, when I was at the national team program, John Heinz was our one of of our head coaches there. And he had always said that the bronze medal is the hardest medal to win because you have to, you have to bounce back. And John Robleski, who was the head coach of that team that Craig was with, was John Heinz's assistant for a couple of years at the NTDP as well. So getting through that adversity and coming back. But the other thing that I'll say, too, is that Craig, I remember reading that story because

I was like really curious about what, what is Craig going to do with this? But I thought about it in that you handled it pretty much the exact right way. It's such a human story at that point. It's not about sports anymore. It's about like think about the thing that you wanted most when you were 17 years old and how like maybe it was a school that you wanted to go to. Maybe it was something that you. And think about when it, if you didn't get it, how you felt in that moment.

And those emotions are so big and it's such a time in your life. And and also think about everybody expects you. to do it. So now you've got to deal with the disappointment or feeling like you disappointed people and you have to feel your own personal disappointment of missing out. It really was one of the more incredible things. I think it's set up a lot of those guys better because one thing, just to spin it forward real quick and I'll turn it back over to you guys. They didn't have Jack Hughes, but that age group did eventually get their gold medal at the world juniors. Jack Hughes, I don't believe ever won a gold medal in any AAJF event.

Chris, you make a great point. These players, this is a two-year process to get to that game. You know what I mean? And you're living up to all the expectations of the previous classes. So these guys are working for two years to get there. I remember that after that loss, grabbing John Robleski, he was about to go for a run. And he was still like, you know, as a coach is you're second guessing yourself. You guys probably don't remember this.

And I only remember it because I went back and read the story. that game against Russia, there was a lot of power plays for the U.S. So they kept sending their stars out, sending their stars out. And what John was really upset about, you talk about that two-year process, Chris, he was like, he's like, how could I have used these other guys that were such a big part of our team, not the stars? You know, the Patrick Moynihan's Owen Leemark, John Beechers. He's like, he's like, it was really bothering him that they lost this massive game and these guys didn't have a say in it that weren't the stars. because of the way the game flowed with all the power plays. And, you know, like you said, they had 24 hours to, and here he was the next morning,

still sitting there going, like, just anguishing over these guys that were such a big part of that two-year process in the way he put it was not having a say in the biggest game. And I remember how much it bothered him. Yeah, like that was, I won't forget that. I know after USA loss, Craig, you had to pivot a little bit in terms of the research. I know you were talking like to the kid talking to the parents, kind of getting the vibe it was going on there. But Chris and I continued, you know, as the tournament went along there,

and as Sweden beat Team Canada, which was not a given by any means, and then they move on to the gold medal game to play Russia. West be one of the most memorable, maybe not in terms of the talent, like in that USA Russia game, but in terms of the just environment, has to be one of the greatest junior games I have ever been to. Chris has been to more junior tournaments that I've been to, particularly at the U18 level. Can you talk about what you usually expect from a crowd when you go to these tournaments, even when the host team is playing?

It's not always a guaranteed it's going to be a sold-out building, right? Right, yeah. Usually I've been to gold medal games that had maybe 700 people in it, if that. I did go to, I remember when the U-18s was a test tournament, for Belarus for their world championship. So they wanted to make sure that their building was full for the gold medal game. So I saw a USA Sweden gold medal game that was 12,000 people strong sold out in Minsk, Belarus. But for this game, you're in one of the elite cities of Swedish hockey, the home of Modo,

the Ovik, for short, Orncholdvik, you know, think about all, you know, the Siddines, Forzburg was there. Like, you know, Marcus Naslin. I mean, like, yeah, it was, had been played there. But like, Forsberg was actually there for this tournament too, looking, you know, like, you know, just like the legend that he is. And so, but yes, normally you're looking at, you know, unless the host team is playing, most games are going to be very empty. Even when the host team is playing, sometimes it's half full because it's U18 hockey and not everybody is, is into it or understands what it is.

This was different. This was one of the greatest environments this tournament has ever had. Also, shout out to the PA announcer, who is still my favorite to ever do it. The leather jacket, long hair, heavy metal loving PA announcer who just, that was his, probably the night of his life in that game, but the environment. Come on, give us an impersonation. You nailed the impersonation. Yeah.

Two minutes remaining in the period. Dos menuto. Dos minutes. Dos menuto. So that was my guy. I love that guy. So they do a two minute warning in the third period in double IHF hockey if you didn't know. Dos minitos.

But yeah, so you've got a sold out building. You've got Sweden playing Russia. You've got some of the best talent. You know, I think at that point, the one thing that I'll say is at that, time, Lucas Raymond and Alexander Holtz were the terror twins. They were basically, they were the, they were the guys that everybody knew was coming and they are the next big thing. And Sweden had never won a gold by that point, right? They had never won a gold at that's tournament. They have lost a ton of them. They have so many silver medals at the U-18 worlds. I have seen them lose,

you know, I, like, as you mentioned, I'd seen them lose to USA multiple times. They saw them lose in Belarus, in Germany, in Czech Republic, or Czechia. Like, I've seen those USA, Sweden, gold medal games. And here they are against Russia. And the thing is, is like, if you're one of the Sweden, Finland, Czechia, you know, yes, you want to beat Canada. Yes, you want to beat USA. You want to play and beat Russia because it's years and years of not beating Russia.

And so that was a big emotional game. Now, this was the 2019 draft. Lucas Raymond was not eligible in 2020 draft, same with Alexander Holtz. And 2020 was a half year. Obviously, you know, the world shut down, middle of the season. We didn't get to see a full draft year from guys like Raymond and Holtz. And Raymond in particular, got limited minutes at the pro level in the SHL that year. So given that, they didn't get a full year,

he didn't get to play his regular U-18s in April that year in his draft year. it's hard not to think that when the Detroit Red Wing sent him forth overall, that games like the one he had at the Gold medal game in 2019 did not weigh heavily on him because if there was ever such thing as a superstar moment, that was the game. Lucas Raymond scores a hat trick.

The first goal, if you had never seen it, you should Google that first goal he scored. It's one of the frontier goals you're ever going to see. And when you think of the elite, skill. You think of what he did to that poor Russian defenseman on that first goal. The second goal was a goal with 10 minutes left in the game to tie it up at two. And then he scores an OT goal to win the gold medal on home ice. And the crowd goes wild. Chris, that it's that old T goal and the first goal have to be among the loudest I've ever heard of a junior building yet. Yeah, absolutely. After that,

the game tying goal, the relief and the air just coming back into the building, that that is something I won't forget. The other thing that I kind of remember is that there was a debate about like, you know, who's better, Holzer Raymond? And I, I had been lean in Raymond for a while and that game left no doubt. Like it was just kind of like one of those moments where you're just like, this guy is going to be a big deal. And he was, he was so confident. The, the, the, the, the, first school that you mentioned, it was definitely go find the, the, the, the highlight because it was just, it was so cocky. It was so cocky. And like Lucas, like, you talk to Lucas, he's soft spoken at times, you know, he's, but it was one of those. I was like, oh, this kid knows he's got it going

right now. And he, and so that, and then, you know, the fact is they're on home ice. The pressures there. They're in, you know, Motto. What a great setting for this tournament, you know, and, and then all of sudden, you know, he scores that game-winning goal in overtime. Because I really thought Russia was going to put him in a chokehold, that Escara wasn't going to let anything pass him anymore after giving up that goal. He was really good in that game, too. But, man, I mean, that was Lucas Raymond's star moment. And you're like, this guy is going to have score so many big goals in his career.

Oddly enough, neither Raymond nor Holtz were the leading score for this team. that would be Rangers prospect Carl Henriksen was the center on that line was the center on that line so he got a lot of assists in that tournament well I mean if you think that impact of the draft I don't know if you guys remember we tried to get dinner one night and the Detroit Red Wings had an organizational dinner going on and we could not even get in the restaurant so they had they were well represented at that tournament yeah everybody was there we couldn't even get in it was uh remember that I remember that too that was a very discouraging height of trying to find a place. Trying to find food, yes, which is really what it all boils down to us. Yeah. Even though he didn't end up winning a gold medal, Cole and Cofield was named the MVP of that tournament and ended up just,

I remember just, you know, watching him play and we were just seeing him march to history with the goals he was scoring that year and hit the 70 goal mark and still went 15th overall, but just an incredible year from him, incredible tournament. We're going to go to a break here. we come back. We're done with the hockey part of this conversation, but there was an interesting

anecdotes that happened after the hockey ended that we wanted to look back on to. So the tournament wasn't being held in Stockholm or Gothenburg, places with, you know, major airports that were easily accessible for us. It was in, you know, smaller towns, Umaya and as the main town that Chris mentioned was Ornsholtz-Speak. And most of us had to get there by either taking a connecting flight or taking a train or, or something along those lines, which was fine, not a big deal. But I think it was like the day or two days before the tournament ended, we got alerted that SAS, which is one of the main airlines that services those towns,

was having a pilot strike. And I believe most of the hockey people had a plane from Umeya Airport to get back to Stockholm and connect from there back to North America. And I think, you know, and that happened, like, I think, I think it was the day before the term ended. And so people were out of options in terms of what to do and how to get to their flight, and whether rearranging their flyer or whatnot. It's easier for NHL teams to navigate around that a little bit because second that,

the last goal is scored, and often scouts even leave before the last goal is scored, they can just get in the car and leave. to do the media work, the write-ups, the interviews, et cetera. So I think, yeah, well, we just am staying longer at the rink typically than the scouts. And, you know, we had flights to make back in Stockholm. And so what ends up happening is one of the more unique experiences I can remember at a junior tournament where, you know, a couple hours after the gold medal gave ended, the three of us hopped in Craig's rental car and we decided us to hook us to hook.

but back to Stockholm, which I think was, what, like a 10-hour drive about? No. Five. It was about five. So the context there is I have a rule when I'm traveling. If it's five or under, I'll drive. I'd rather than deal with airports. So I was like the only person that, yeah, felt like 10 for Corey.

I was the only person that I think had a rental car. And so, you know, offered a ride with you guys. And because I once had a podcast a long, long time ago. It was great for content. I was like, I'm going to have these two. Shout out, rest and peace to the full 60. I have these two experts in this space that are captive in my rental car. We should have grabbed like three scouts and just stuffed them in there too.

Grab, you know, whoever was there. And so I'm like, this is perfect. We're going to create some content because in my opinion, the best podcasts are the ones that sound conversational. It sounds like you're hanging. And so this was the perfect opportunity. What I didn't anticipate was, A, it's probably a driving hazard when you're driving in Europe with a microphone in your hand. Also, didn't we leave at like midnight? So we were driving in, I just remember being really slap happy.

Right? Well, I think you took like a like a 90-hour cat nap while we were doing the media stuff. Yeah, not true. Not true. Not true. I don't know. I probably was writing my story. But for the most part, yes, we were all on no sleep. Yeah.

So we pile in, basically had to break down the tournament and do it in a way with recordings and do it in a way with no sleep and like trying to catch a flight. And I'm going to tell you guys, like it sounds like a terrible idea as we say it out loud now. I heard from somebody the other day, I'm going to take a second. I've written a book. So it just came out. So I've been like public and making some rounds. And so they reached out to me like, oh, I'm glad to hear you're out and doing things. they're like, hey, the, the best podcast I've ever listened to in my entire life of any podcast ever

was the full 60 with you and Corey Promin and Chris Peters driving. I've never laughed so hard. I felt like I was in the passenger seat. And it, like, it still may be one of my favorite moments. Yeah. I also, it was a blast because, like, you know, if we just kept the mic on for the entire thing, I don't know if any of us would still be working in hockey, but at the same time, I also think that we, I also think that we like it was just one of those things where everything,

we just talked about anything and everything. And it was kind of out of necessity because we had to stay awake to get to Stockholm. And like I think I still like my flight, I end up flying through Poland. Like there were all sorts of things that kind of like happened. So it was it was a long, long night. But the best thing about it was is, you know, I, I remember the moment I remember is just being like, and I think the statute of limitations have expired. So we should be good on this.

But like, I'm pretty sure, like, we either blew or stopped short at a red light. And like, we're, we're, you're like, Craig, you're like going. You're like, it's the preamble of a question. And you're deep in thought. You're giving it. And then it's like, I feel like this is a red light. Now it's green. No, no, it's fine.

Now it's turning red. When did traffic lights enter the equation? I think we're in a city now. Oh, we're in a city. Well, who would know? Yeah. You can't just have a highway and then throw in a traffic light in my defense. But it was actually one of my favorite things too because it offered, first of all,

you know, obviously it's always nice to ride with people that you enjoy being around and everything. But we, you know, we had a lot of laughs. We had a lot of fun. And then to actually get content out of it and to bring people in because it was, I think the other thing, too, is I'm glad that we caught it while it was still so fresh because it was such this moment in time of what I think will really be one of the most incredible world under 18s that is ever held. And that tournament is coming back to the U.S. this year, which will be fun. So if you've never seen it and you want to, you should go to Dallas,

get some fun in the sun because it is some of the best hockey you can see. But just to have had that opportunity to have a medal round. Don't go for the round robin games. Go for the middle round. Okay. Easy, Corey. Easy, Corey. Yeah, I go for the whole thing.

Just support the children. But, you know, I think that that whole ride, is one of my favorite memories from all of my travels too, just because it is such a fun thing to, you know, to just talk hockey, joke around and then, you know, talk career. We were talking journalism, all these other things. And the athletic was also still so new at the time, too.

So you guys were still, you know, figuring things out. Look at y'all now. Craig's like a big wig. Corey's still doing the exact same thing that he was doing then. Just maybe a little bit more beardy. So, you know. Definitely more beardy. Yeah, he's got the beard.

So my proposal to you, Corey, just, you know, look, think this through. There's no pressure, but, you know, you've got a wedding coming up. Perfect opportunity just to, you know, let's get the microphones on. Let's get the drinks flowing. And we could have a reunion, you know, bring the people in. Content, create content out of everything. That's what I always say. Yeah.

That's amazing. We're going to do a podcast in the ceremony. I think so. I would do it. I think so. And I'll tell you what, I'm looking forward to that. This is, yeah, it'll be the great 2019, Orange Tjolvik to Stockholm road trip reunion at Corey's wedding.

Yes. I do, I do remember when we were on the drive that what I, the only question I remember Craig actually asking us on the drive was he turned to us and he said, you know, it's kind of presumed Jack's going one. We think Kaka's probably going to Chris, Corey, who would you take three? who do you think is the third best player in the draft? And of course, that presumption, obviously, is an issue because Kako probably isn't the second best player in that draft.

And I think I said Turcott, and I think Chris said Kirby Doc, who ended up going three. But the answer was probably some variation of Sider, Couser, Cousins, Cawfield, Boldy. I don't think any of those guys got nominations. I don't think even mentioned cider. I don't think we mentioned Cider. once on that podcast. No. Well, he wasn't there.

He wasn't there. I didn't know who he was. I didn't know who he was until he stood up and fixed his bow tie when the Red Wing's Oh my gosh. That was great. I actually knew after the combine, I was like, oh, shoot, this guy's going to go much higher than any of us. Was Boldy even on the first power play unit for that team?

I don't think he was. I know because I think it was Turcotte. Zegris. Zegris. Greg. Colcoffield. Jack. And then York.

Yeah, York. Yeah. So it was. Cam York. Anton Dun was on the team. Alex Black, Classic. Like, did it? Yeah.

I mean, let's honestly, like, that is one thing we didn't do. So let's do hockey real one more time because to look at these rosters. And I was even looking at, you know, at, you know, Russia's roster had like Chinokov, who nobody, you know, saw coming when he was a first round draft pick and all those other things. And he, well, he wasn't a first round draft pick. He went undrafted that year. He got. That's correct.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's like, you know, you had those crazy things. But, but that you had. team, most of those guys have played in the NHL and have played some level of pro hockey. But you got you know, yeah, Drew Hellison has played some NHL games. Henry Thrun, Alex Vlasic, Marshall Warren, who's in the AHA

right now, Cam York, Johnny Beecher, first rounder, Maddie Baneer's number two overall pick, Matt Boldie, first rounder, Bobby Brink, Cole Cofield, Sean Farrell, who got a little bit with Montreal, Jack Hughes, Alex Chercott, Trevor Zegaris, I mean, among the players. And I believe that U.S. age group who weren't there included Kaliyev, Nick Robertson and Ryan Johnson. Yeah, and actually one guy that has played NHL games that came over with them, Landon Slaggart, he also came over with them and was sent home when they were able to get Bobby Brink.

So nice road trip, but he's played NHL games as well. So pretty incredible, you know, even looking back. So if you ever want to see the future of hockey, I guess that's the event to do it. that. I think that was a great recap there, guys. And Craig, you mentioned something about a book. Would you care to tell the people at home what book you're referencing? Yeah, I mean, really, if we're honest, the only reason I'm on the podcast right now, thanks, Corey, for having me. And Chris, great to see you. It's called the franchise. The business of building winning teams, spent three years, maybe, behind the scenes with GMs and owners and team presidents trying to

figure out strategies and leadership and team building. And I love roster construction. If you ever listen, you know, I love all that stuff. So that is out wherever you can get books. I love behind the scenes if this story didn't underline that even. I hate to distill three years of work and hundreds of pages into simple points. But in your opinion, not the people you talk to, in your opinion, if you had to distill what takes to build winning teams into one or two sentences, what would it be?

I mean the one common thread was like being willing to make really hard decisions and sometimes that's doing nothing and you can guess which teams did that but like being agonizing over it and sometimes that's firing coaches who are really good because a better one's available. I think almost to a person like I think George McPhee said it. He's like the second you're not willing to do that you should not run a team and we know that's the hardest thing to do in leadership. So that was one thread, like just being willing to do really hard things in the spirit of improving the team. And by no means a football expert, but that seems to be something that was always common in the Belichick-run Patriots, that he was heartless in a way, just from a management perspective. Yeah, be heartless. That's, I'm sorry, you put it way better.

I think have no. Yeah. But look, I mean, the best teams, like if you look at some of the decisions that are coming out of the best teams, you look there and you say, boy, that was, you know, Tampa Bay and Stamcoast. And some of these things, you sit there and go, boy, that's a really hard thing to do. And at times it feels cold. But in a salary cap run league where every dollar is paramount, every decision you make, like it does have to be, you know, done with that in my, you know, almost cold and very tactical.

It kind of reminds me of the Jerry Seinfeld line where you're not rooting for the players. You're rooting for the clothes they wear. Yeah. absolutely and just Craig you know we're so glad that you were able to join us it is great to reminisce it's great to see you i i haven't had a chance to read the book yet but i did get a a review from a close friend that's in hockey that read it in about three days and said it was like a great insight into you know what you're so you captured the spirit of the thing in the in the dicky dunn way so that's good um i can't wait to read it it'll probably have to be

in July because I don't know if there is such a thing as free time in my life anymore with youth hockey and everything else going on. However, I very much look forward to reading that on hopefully a beach somewhere. But, you know, having read your previous work and obviously missing reading your writing in public, I still get your emails, so I appreciate that. Yeah, I write privately to Chris, everybody. the ones that you said to everybody. Yeah, but it's, you know, I think it's going to be a great thing. And I think anybody that likes behind the scene stuff, you know, you've, you've had,

you're well practiced in it. So I think that's a good sign too. And, yeah, I'll also, I will reiterate, be heartless, everybody. Don't care. Don't care about anything or anyone. That's right. And you will achieve great success. That's the way I approach my prospect ranking.

So I try to embody that. I was actually going to say that. I was like, Corey is ruthless and heartless. I am the emotional one, and sometimes my emotions get the better of me. So be more like Corey in a world full of Peters's. Well, thanks, guys. Is that a saying? I don't need it all.

It isn't. But I will say people like you a lot more than they like me. That is, I can't confirm. Thanks.