The Athletic Hockey Show - 2024 NHL Mock Draft comparisons: who follows Celebrini at No. 1?

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

It’s a brand new episode of The Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series as Max, Corey, Scott, and FloHockey’s Chris Peters compare and contrast their latest 2024 NHL Mock Drafts, discuss the play of pros and prospects at the IIHF World Championship, and answer some great listener questions in a supersized mailbag to close the show.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. Hey, everybody. Max Boltman here alongside Corey Pranman, Scott Wheeler, and Flow Hockey's Chris Peters for another packed episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. fellas, last week we talked about the draft order. Now each of you have published your respective mock drafts, all of them 100% certifiably correct. And I want to talk today about some of the biggest disagreements that you have in them. I think at the top we're going to talk all really for the next two months about Ivan Demadov and Artem Lefshunov. Scott and Chris, you have it going Demadov to Chicago, Levshunov at three. Corey, you're the differentiator here on this one. You've got Artem Levshinov to the Blackhawks.

We'll start with you. Want to talk us through your reasoning on not going with Demadov there. Sure. And obviously at the top of one, I have Delabrini going to the sharks and just unrelated. I don't think he's going back to school, just my opinion. Oh, but have you said that before on this podcast? Just no need to bring it up. So in terms of left tune off to Chicago,

I don't know whether these are the two players are considering. Like I would probably think I think that Anton Salaio has to be in that conversation too, quite frankly, for them. But presuming it is those two players, as our colleague Scott Powers has reported, that's what that's what his belief is. and also I think Kaine Lindstrom from Medicine

has to be in the conversation too. But if it is those two, then I would, based on how I think most NHL teams operate, I think there's going to be two variables that are going to weigh heavily on this decision for Chicago. One is the positional

aspect of it, and two is the familiarity with the player. Chicago did a lot of work on left shooting off this year. You know, I probably would guess they were at least at north of 20 of his games this season live. You know, they've been obviously seeing him as a lot of underage in Green Bay as well.

They picked the player out of Green Bay last season and would have seen him plenty in the U.S. HL the prior season. And they just haven't gone that live scouting with Demadov. We saw last year in the Montfei-Mitchkoff conversations that San Jose in Montreal cited the lack of live viewings as a significant very, variable in why they declined to select the player. So if it's close, then I think just history tells me that teams will lean to the big

defensemen who had a great year at a high level of play that they're familiar with. The only way I see them going with Demadoff is if they arrive at the conclusion that this is a special offensive player, that this is like a first overall pick type of player, potential next Artimmy Panarin, Kareil Kaprizav, Nikita Kouki, whichever name you want to throw out there. And if they arrive at that conclusion, then it's like, okay, well, we really love left shoot-off. We think this could be like a major minutes-all-situation defensemen in the NHL. But I don't know.

Caprazzav and Panera and those guys kind of change your organizations a lot, too. So that's, but I tend to think most teams will arrive at the defense minute in a situation. I don't have any information to know which way Chicago was leading. I picked that based on how I think almost every NHL team I know tends to operate. Scott, we know the conclusion you arrived at going with Demadov for Chicago. How different was kind of your thought process and mapping that decision to what Corey kind of just laid out? Well, I will say, I know they've done a lot of due diligence on Demadov, and he's firmly in that conversation is my understanding that they like all three of those kids of Demadov,

Salaev, and Lev Shunov. So I think that was a part of it. It sounds like they've sort of reached out to people in Russia and they've done a good amount of due diligence there. But I think Corey's headspace is in the right spot. If it's going to be Demadov, I think they have to arrive at it being obviously that premium player offensively that Corey alluded to, but also just the fit with Bedard. I do think there's stylistically that there's a fit with Bedard there.

I think he plays a more well-rounded game. He's obviously a winger. they can play make through and off of one another, the fit on the power play. And we've talked about this a little bit, but the fit on the power play, I think, is a natural one. Very different styles of players in terms of how they create their offense,

but it just feels to me, and that doesn't mean it's not going to be Lev Shunab or Salaev, but it feels to me like if you've got an opportunity to add a true, true star, star forward, alongside Bidar. That that completely changes the look of that, that franchise long term. And you harken back to Taves and Cain

and the duos that we're seeing in the NHL playoffs right now, whether it's, I mean, really Wyatt Johnston has emerged in Dallas, but really whether it's Miko Ranton and Nathan McKinnon, Dreisdell and McDavid, it just feels like you need two true dogs. Obviously Carolina has done it a little bit differently.

Dallas has done it, maybe a little bit differently, but by and large, the top teams in the league have two stud forwards. And this is their opportunity to add that second one. They're from the same birth year, even. There's just a lot to like about the fit with the two of them. Those teams in the playoffs also do all have that dominant number one defenseman. And I guess, Chris, my question coming to you here is, are you satisfied? If you're Chicago, would you be satisfied in Kevin Korninski as being that piece? Is that number one defenseman still something that you think they need? to be considering or are they at a point where they can truly just say, well, we have that.

Now we're going to go get that high flying running mate. Yeah, you know, I don't think, I don't think that you can confidently say that about Kortchinsky yet, not to say that he hasn't looked great. I think there's a ton of upside there. I think his season was very good. And there's got to be a lot of faith in him being a high minutes guy. I mean, I think when you look at Levshunov, the interesting thing, the interesting situation of the Blackhawks are in, the two biggest needs they have in their process.

suspect system right there are staring them right in the face. They could really use that complimentary scoring winger. They could also use some, you know, they could use that, that right shot defenseman that could be that number one defenseman. And if you think that Aram-Levshinaw is better than what you have, then I think that that is absolutely like, you know, to me, it's a coin flip as far as as where this goes. I think it's that close. And often I do lean towards the defensemen, but I think in this particular instance, you know, I look at the need to surround Bidar with more talent up front, the need to find a guy that, you know, as Scott said, they can facilitate, they can play off of each other. The thing is, is that Ivan Demadov, to me, is so far ahead of the

next tier of forwards in Chicago's class, that that's another, you know, like, I like Frank Mazur, I like Oliver Moore. I don't think they're close to this kid. You know, they're not offensive types either. Right. Exactly. They're much more, they don't have that dynamic offensive toolkit that Demadov does in the same way. And so I think that that's the, that's one of the reasons is that you, you're going to get so few chances. Like this pick is, there's so much riding on this pick. And that's why I don't think Lindstrom is really a true option for them. I think there's too much risk there.

I think that that's one of the reasons why he's probably slipped down a little bit in the, in the pecking order for this, for this, although the size and the physicality are obviously very attractive to them. And we've seen them pick at the top of the draft go for the big center before in Kirby Doc when they did that. Corey, it looks like you want to jump in. Oh, I didn't indicate that I wanted to jump in.

No, I thought you had something. I mean, if you want me to add something in and I will, but you just, when you said something like about how it's so important and made me think, like, I think the three of us,

four of us, sorry, don't mean to exclude maximum this conversation. I think we all have our biases when it comes to watching players on video. I think the four of us probably feel like we can develop strong opinions on players from watching them on video that we can evaluate players on video. Because, you know, we have come up watching players on video predominantly. You know, we are not full-time NHL scouts.

I do think NHL teams approach that situation a little bit differently, those multi-million dollar decisions where their careers are riding on the pick. And I had no idea how Chicago approaches this. I really don't. But I know that most NHL teams, because you said this is such an important decision, I know a lot of teams would look at the lack of familiarity of those live views at Demadov.

And even if they have done a lot of calls, even if they have watched every single one of his games this year, even if they have a Russian scout there who's seen him live, I think they would have significant apprehension on using a second overall pick on a player they've never seen live. Especially in his pretty unique situation, a kid of that caliber who didn't really get KCHL reps. You just wonder whether teams are going to be gun shy without that just knowing what the MHL level looks like. And teams had seen Mitchkov live.

Like they had seen him live, at least that, you know, U18 Worlds, the Holinka, the World Geoibor is canceled. I've talked to teams and people who think they might have to make a decision on Demado. They think there's a practical possibility that he might be there. And they say, I haven't seen that kid live in two, three years. One more question for you, Corey, on this, and then we'll move on to a couple of other guys. Scott and Chris have it going Demadov 2, Leveshanov 3. You have it Levschenov, too, and the Demadov slips a little bit to 5, right? How much of that is about kind of your evaluation of the player and how much of it is kind of

the teams picking at 3 and 4, in this case, Anaheim and Columbus? It's less about Columbus, more about Anaheim. I think Anna will have to strongly consider Demadov if he's there at three, but I just think, just given, I still think, you know, teams at the top generally pick best player available, but I think just given their situation of how many talented forwards they have, they just adder-cotechie with a trade for Jamie Drysdale, we know Papua Beek wants to get bigger and tougher.

Like, I think if Thalaya, Levs Chunov, or even Sam Dickinson is staring them in the face at three, like I just, and I think most people like talking to the league feel like, that's going to be their pick, even if they do have to consider a super talented form like a Demadoff. Columbus, I'm less sure on. The more I look at their roster, more I talk around the league,

my hunch was leaning the other way when I did that moth draft, but I really don't know. I could definitely see them take Demit off at four. I think they have a lot of needs, quite frankly. And I mean, I think they have a lot of really good young players at various positions, but, you know, they have a good young centers, good young defensemen, good young wingers, you know, but so like I could see them go devidov at four the only reason why I really didn't give him that is I think they did a really similar analysis to mafay mitchcock last year they could have taken mafay mitchkhov last year obviously it would have been a little bit higher than where he went and they had some really good players like an infantili like will smith to consider from but I don't to my understanding believe that was ever really a serious conversation there so I'm not sure why it would be a serious conversation a year later with devon

of, but maybe they just like the player more, too, I really don't know. Yeah, you know, you know what? One of the Columbus's biggest needs is right now, a general manager. So, I mean, we don't even know who's going to be leading the team. Obviously, they're going to have the staff in place. And that's one of the things that actually complicates the mock draft process is they they could throw somebody in there. And if they've been active, you know, usually they're going to let the scouts make the

decision. But if they're active, they're going to put their stamp on the franchise. It's the first most important decision they're going to have to make. they're going to have to make it, you know, basically a month in on the job. So might want to get on that. So to your point, Steve Eisenman got hired in mid-April, and I think there was a strong sense that he was very involved in Detroit taking more excited in that first draft, even with the previous regime's scouting staff in place.

With Columbus, another factor that feels at least sort of peripherally relevant to is the presence of Broncov and Marchenko and, like, there's, there's there's some russians there right and and that's not just relevant for demido but probably relevant for untunthalayaf as well yeah chinikov's there as well right yeah uh scott i want to pivot to the next player here but we're going to stay with you and becket seneca has been kind of one of those names that feels like we've steadily seen rise throughout the last month or two um you're still kind of the i guess technically low man here uh at number 16 in your most recent mock but what do you see when you look at seneca and how high do you think

he can ultimately take this. Obviously his playoffs now over now that London has won the OHL. Yeah, and he didn't even really get to properly finish the playoffs either due to injury. He missed the last few games that they played. So that was tough for him because he was really crescendoing and sort of peaking right when he got hurt and was playing the best hockey that he's played, not just this year, but the last two years, really. So, yeah, I mean, it feels like he's going to be one of the first forwards taken. and it feels like he's joined that group with whoever you name,

Heleneas, Berkeley Caton. And I considered him in my mock at multiple points, sort of in that 8 to 8 to 15 range. Ultimately, he was sort of the last man picked because I felt like whether it was Hellenius or Caton or Teague were better fits with particular organizations in that range. But I could see that going multiple directions. and even the pick right before with Detroit, I considered it.

So, I mean, the skill level, the size, you've run into him around. I've been out to Oshua probably 15 times in the last two seasons to see him play live. You run into him around the rink. He's still a really skinny kid. Like there's a lot of potential there for him to fill out that frame of his and sort of really get into the gym. And then just the puck skill. I mean, he's your name.

the best puck handlers in this draft. It's Beckett, it's Trevor Connolly, it's Ivan Demadov. He's in that class as a pure stick skills guy. So just a lot to like about, and really the competitiveness, which was a question in the front half of this season, and even had an OHL coach tell me earlier this year, and I think I've written about this already, but I had an OHL coach earlier this year tell me he didn't think he belonged

in the first round conversation. And that was like November, December, right before the top prospects game. And then he was great at the top prospects game. The competitiveness and sort of details started to come. The consistency started to come more often. In the second half of the season, he was lights out. So credit to him because he's in that group now. Corey, you've been on Seneca, obviously, for a little bit here too.

How much is that size, the differentiating factor here? Because when we talk about some of the skilled forwards in this class, you know, especially you've got them at 10 to New Jersey. When I picked for New Jersey and our staff mock, I went with Berkeley Caton. And that was one of the pushback items I got from, from Devils fans was like another kind of smaller forward here. Seneca still brings that high skill level,

but just how much is that big body differentiate him from some of these other guys? I think it's been a big reason for his rise is that the guy who's had a late growth for I think when he was at U-17 challenge a year ago at his time, I think hockey can and measure him around 511, 6.0. I think when it comes time to the Columbine, he's going to measure it right around 6, 2.5. You know, he's definitely grown significantly, both as a person and as a player, because now you have that size, you have that really strong skating.

When I've seen him live, the skating just jumps out and you immediately. I agree with Scott. I think the puck skills are among the best in the draft. So that combination of tools right there, immediately intriguing. We're worried about the production. And I still think there is some concern

that the production only took off when Callum Ritchie came back from injury. But you have to give credit what credit is due, that he had a great second half, helped lead off to the one seat in the east, help be a major variable for why they made it to the finals in the OHL, even though they did get swept by London, albeit he didn't play a single game in those finals.

So I think the size, the skill, the skating combination, the production in the playoffs, I think that is going to be highly intriguing, particularly like you said when I think in that range, whether it's 8 to 12, 7 to 13, whatever range you want to talk about, you're going to be talking about smaller forwards. you know, Berkeley Cadmus 510, Tija, is 511, Consta Hallaneous is 511,

Colizumann is 6-0, and now you have a 6-2 forward with pretty high in offensive traits. I think for a lot of those teams, whether it is New Jersey that has a lot of small forwards, whether it is Buffalo that has a lot of small forwards, I think, you know, maybe even higher in the draft, quite frankly, I think that is going to sway a lot of teams. Chris, the item of pushback that I think people are going to get in we,

talk about Seneca's higher-end offense is that he had 68 points in 63 games in the OHL, not a bad season by any stretch. It's a good season in the OHL, but it's not at the level that we've seen from like the top 10 picks out of the CHL leagues in recent years. And there's a question that kind of alludes to this in the mailbag. I'm going to pull up right now from NJD. Gio who wants to know basically, do you think he's more of the player we saw in the playoffs or the regular season? And what do you think it counts for that, you know, explosion and scoring in the playoffs that

wasn't at that level in the regular season? Yeah, you know, I haven't necessarily done the deep dive on the difference in play yet. I mean, certainly I think there's an element of the strength. There's an element of the intensity of the game seemed to rise the level of a Beckett Seneca. And the other thing that I think teams are talking about in general is there is this, this, this kind of thing. Well, does the player have to do it consistently? Or can we see his top gear? And if he gets to his top gear, we don't.

don't necessarily know if they can sustain that, but we know that they have it in them. And that's one of the things that I think makes this postseason so intriguing. It's the most important time of the year at a time when his team needed him. And then we see how badly they missed him in the final. I mean, they weren't, they weren't close. I mean, they were close for one game. But, I mean, really wasn't really that close. That, you know, says a lot about the hole that he left in the lineup as well.

So, I mean, players, you want to see them build throughout the year. You know, we look back last year. And I think, you know, I was certainly one of the people. people that was critical of the Toronto Maple Leafs and select the East and Cowan when they did. And, and here, you know, that was a lot of the boost that he got was for his performance and the playoffs. And now we've seen him kind of sustain that level throughout the entirety of a season where he was, you know, basically, you know, the best player in the OHL this past season. So, you know, I think that that's another, another element of it. So we're seeing Seneca at his best at the right time.

He's leaving that last impression. We've seen him, you know, play at that top gear. If he can, you know, it'll be a matter of sustaining it. So there sure is still some risk in terms of, hey, the regular season wasn't lights out. It was certainly not the production level of a top 10 pick, but we're starting to see. And also because of,

you know, you think about the guys like Heleneas and Eisenman and others, where it's like, you know, yeah, there's not a, you're maybe not getting as excited about those players as, as you once were. That's going to really change things for him.

Another London Knight, who I think fits that. trend was Bo Horvatt in his draft year. Mind you, he was a center, not a winger like Cowan and Seneca are, but Bo Horvat was under a point per game in the regular season in his draft year. And then he had an absolute monster playoffs for London, probably even a better playoffs than either Cowan or Seneca, quite frankly. And then he goes in the top 10. I think he would do that draft. I think he's comfortably in the top 10. So I think that's just another data point for you on how much a playoff performance could impact the player stock.

worth noting too that despite the fact that they went to the OHL final they were a very mediocre team for the vast majority of this season they did not expect to contend for a championship they were always building towards next year that blueprint you talked to roger hunt or the coaching staff there derrick laxdall they'll say everything is about next year the team is built for next year you look at the players who were around him in ritchie's absence rasmus kumpleinen rubrovich like they aren't skill guys and he was really the only skill player, which I actually think early in the season was part of the reason there was so much criticism of him for the one-on-one stuff

and for the one-on-one and done stuff in the offensive zone is because he felt like he had to go out there and dangle three guys to make a play because there just wasn't a playmaker. Without Richie, there wasn't a playmaker on that team. So I think next year on an even better team in Oshawa next season, you'll see those numbers will be there. If there's a good time to have your best stretch of the season, the playoffs are it, obviously. That's the time of your NHL teams are going to be most interested in you differentiating yourself.

On to another guy here, Cole Eisenman. You touched on him a little bit ago, Corey. All three of you guys are right in the same range on Cole. 13 for Scott, 14 for Chris, 17 for you. Is that seemed to be the kind of entrenched range at this point? I know at one point he was one of the more polarizing players. It seems like we're arriving at something more like a consensus here. Yeah, I think that's fair.

I think, and I'll be really interested to see where he lands on draft day because I'm kind of sensing two different opinions in the league on him. One is maybe the more common thought of late, which is more beating up the player and being like, I don't like the way he plays. You know, next bellows, next Wallstrom, you know, just a shooter, doesn't have a lot of other dimensions in his game. And then there's another train where it's like,

okay guys, I get there's some issues here, but let's slow it down a little. This is still a goal game winger. There's still a guy who has a lot of offense in his game. It still looks like that NHL score. Like, I get he's not Celebrini. He's not Demadog, but like there's a right range for this guy too. And I think that right range is going to be somewhere in the teens. I, you know, guys who get beat up like a Fabian Lassell dropped all the way to 20.

Like it wouldn't shock me if this guy like three falls a little bit into the later parts of the teens. And that's why I have him right around that 17 range. I think, but I don't think he's going to catapult either because I don't, but even though there are some concerns in his game. Feels like the combine may have an outsized impact on him relative to some of those other guys, not for the testing, but because of the impression he's going to need to leave on some people in interviews. All right.

Let's go to E.J. Emery, who's kind of on the other side of things here as one of the risers, especially out of that U18 tournament. Corey, you've still got them down at 30 and Chris, your mock only goes to 16. But Scott, you've got them all the way up at number 17. So let's start with you on this one. I mean, how much did Emery help himself at that U18s? And what do you see now overall with this player? Yeah, I think it has as much to do.

That sort of range has as much to do with Emery as it does with the drop-off once the Sakes Big D in the draft are gone. We're not just going to go 20 picks without a couple of D getting selected. and it does feel like someone has to go. There's going to be two, three, four, maybe even five teams between 12 and 30 that are going to target defensemen and look at, okay, who's in that second tier. And it feels like Emery, in part because of U-18s and how well he played, has joined that group. Steyan Solberg and the way he played professionally in Norway and now with the men's team has obviously joined that group and Corey mocked him there. But it's, it's, there's not a lot of guys.

Like it's Leo Saline Willanius, it's Solberg, it's Emery. There's, it's just a pretty short list after those, those six big boys are gone. And Emery, I think because of, because of the skating, because of the length, because of the athleticism, we all, I made a comment to Chris, after seeing him in, in Finland. I've been down to Plymouth to see him three times this year, but he still hasn't put on any muscle, like, despite the athleticism. buticism despite the skating. He's one of the skinniest kids you'll ever see that that's a high level athlete.

So there's just, I think teams see that. Teams understand that there's still so much more for him to get through in terms of his puck play, his offensive game, but also just once he gets stronger and what that's going to look like with his ability to move on the ice at his length. So maybe never going to be a sort of natural offensively, but if he can skate pucks up ice and help out in transition and put pucks through from the point, all things he does well, play with a little poise, which he started to do more and more of this season.

The length and the defense is going to land them in the first round for sure. Yeah, you know, and I think the other thing, too, is, you know, when we look at these players and we look at the different guys that have kind of come through the national team program as well, players that fit Emery's profile, even somewhat statistically, have gone on to, you know, kind of continue to grow. And we look at guys, you know, maybe one of the more recent examples that'll resonate with NHL fans is Brock Faber. I mean, you look at Brock Faber, you know, very, very low statistical profile in his U18 season and even beyond that.

But you saw the ability to defend, the skating, the different things, the smarts, all those different things that were there. And I think we're starting to see, you know, E.J. Emery piece all of that together. And to Scott's point, there's there's a frame to grow into. And I was speaking with one team in the teens that, you know, said there's got to be consideration for a player like him because of the size, the athleticism, the upside. You know, I think there is a belief that that his stats don't tell the whole story of his puck capabilities. He's not a dangler. He's not going to be a guy that puts up a ton of points. but his ability to defend his skating, the athleticism, the amount of the timeline,

the fact he's going to North Dakota, you know, following the Jake Sanderson path to the next, to the next realm, you know, that's kind of what is there. And so I think of the guys like that, you know, Nick Four is, as often compared him to Kiannui Miller as well, who had that kind of similar, you know, wasn't amazingly productive, but he had some tools and now we see him in the Stanley Cup playoffs and the value that a player like that brings to a team. And so I think because of the jumble that we're going to see in that next tier of defensemen, it allows guys like Emery to jump in.

Kate, in that range. Caden was a little harder, but. Yeah, like I love the athlete, like 6-3, super good skater competes. I just think it turns from a mock draft. Like I think when I think of these names like Keontry Miller or Gouli, I think they were never big offensive guys, but they showed more off. offense at that age. I mean, Keontro as a former forward converted to defensemen.

So I just think like if he became the next favor, obviously, like that's the range, you know, much higher, obviously. But I just think when I think of history and the guys who look like that, I think they tend to be more like later first high seconds, typically than top 20. But, but I can see that the argument for at least closer to 20. I'm going to put a pin in this right here so we can take a quick break. We're going to come back. We're going to talk about the men's world championships and another defenseman who could be factoring into this kind of mix outside that top big group. All right. We are back.

And I want to start here talking about the world championships, guys. Been a good event so far, a little bit more NHL star power than we've seen in a couple of these recent tournaments here. Obviously, as we lead into some more best on best in the coming seasons. Chris, I know you followed Team USA really closely. Who stood out to you so far for the Americans and especially the younger guys? Yeah. Not many people at this point. I mean, USA's lost two of their first three games.

And so, you know, and I think because a lot of these young up-and-coming players have been spotlighted as, you know, like this team is probably one of the more talented teams that they've sent in terms of pure skill and an NHL kind of status. You know, one of the guys has actually played outplayed some of the bigger names is Joel Farabee from the Philadelphia Flyers. He's actually been probably, he only has one point right now. but he's been one of their more consistently impactful players on the on the team in a lower lineup role. But you know, you look at Trevor Zegris, you look at Cole Cofield and, you know, Cawfield has two assists. Zegris has a goal and an assist. He's minus five. You know, I mean plus plus minus being what it is, but it's in a three game sample.

And, you know, that they, they're auditioning theoretically for positions on Team USA at the four nations. and for the Olympics. I mean, the mandate came down from Bill Guerin. If you want to be considered, you better be going. And so, you know, to not, Cawfield and Bolte and Zegris were certainly guys that are kind of on the, on the bubble, I would say, for that team. And haven't necessarily covered themselves in glory at this tournament here.

And so that's not a great start. In the games that have mattered, they haven't been as impactful. One guy that has played well that I think, you know, his numbers, he's got three points so far, but Matt Boldy has looked really good. He's, he's been able to make an impact on that team. He's, he's done some nice things at the net front. He's good on the forecheck. He's good defensively.

It gives you a lot. So that's, that's important as well. I think that's really good. Luke Hughes, another guy where it's going to be tough for him to potentially make the four nations team, but I think he's a realistic option for the Olympics. I think, you know, you look at, obviously, there's a lot of style defensemen that play, you know, you've got your, your Adam, Fox and your Quinn Hughes and others that you would expect to be there.

But I mean, Luke has really made a case for himself. I think when they lost an overtime, they didn't get him out until the last minute. And there was a turnover that he had nothing to do with that ended up costing them the game. You know, so, but when he's been on the ice, he's making things happen. And he actually scored the game tying goal in that game against Slovakia, which ended up being a disappointing overtime loss. But could have been a lot worse. Could we see a Hugh Sanderson pairing in the Olympics, maybe?

I mean, it's possible. I think Jake has not played all that great here either at this at this tournament. He's looked better than, you know, but yeah, I think it's, it's certainly possible. I mean, with the way that those two guys skate, you know, there's certainly a potential there. But yeah, I mean, otherwise, you know, Trey Augustine has had to come in on relief as well twice. And, you know, he's done, he's done the job well. You know, the only goal that beat him against Slovakia was a deflection in overtime. So there's that.

Also, Team USA has had the younger guys like Ryan Leonard Will Smith. They've played very limited roles. They have not played a ton in the tournament. However, Leonard does have an assist. He won't play in their next game. Gavin Brinley is going to make his debut. But yeah, so they haven't necessarily leaned on the younger guys because I think that's, they've expected more from these older guys.

But, you know, I think that they need to see more from that group. Who's got kind of the most, I guess, to gain up? You mentioned some of the kind of Olympic intrigue around there. Like, is it someone like a boldie who seems like they, I do have a legit kind of Olympic case at this point, or is it someone more like Zegris, who obviously has kind of the, the NHL side of this thing to play in too?

Yeah, you know, I think after Trevor had a, you know, a kind of a so-so season and where a lot of people are starting to talk about him potentially being traded out of Anaheim, you know, this is an important moment for him to prove,

you know, he's back with guys that he's familiar with. He's back in a system that I think is geared towards allowing him to do his thing. you know, that's, that's really important. I think, you know, for Luke Hughes and Jake Sanderson, it's younger guys like that, it's an opportunity to prove that they need to be in the discussion. And I think they will be, you know, different guys like that have a real opportunity.

You know, so, yeah, but I mean, Boldie, he's obviously got the added benefit that his general manager is going to be the general manager of Team USA. So he knows exactly what he's getting out of him. but playing here in an elevated role and being effective will create a lasting memory for him. Because I do think, like, the world championship is a very difficult tournament. It's not a walk in the park for NHL players. And, you know, I think in the first game, we saw USA chasing Sweden all over the ice. It's only a hybrid rink. It's not even a full Olympic sheet.

And they made it look like a soccer field out there with how spread out they were. So, you know, those are the kinds of things that you kind of have to watch out for. Obviously, that won't matter in the fourth. nations. They're going to be on an NHL sheets and all that stuff. And the Olympics, I believe, will also be on an NHL sheet. So whatever at the end of the day. But yeah, I mean, still, some guys haven't necessarily performed to their ability here. On the draft side of things of this event, Corey, we're used to seeing maybe the odd American, the odd swede. Obviously, there is a high profile Finn at this event in Constellanus. But team Norway coming from the outside

may have the most intriguing 2024 draft situation here at the men's World Championships. Obviously, people know by this point about Michael Brancic-Niagr. What should they know about Steyn's and Solberg? Yeah, Solberg has been really impressive for Norway. He's been playing on their top pair consistently. I think as we record right now before the Canada game, he's averaged about 23 minutes a night at the men's world championships

and looking effective in those minutes. They won against Denmark the other day, and he played a lot of minutes in that game. Solberg is a player with a lot of international history. He's played twice for the U-20 team. He was one of their best players at the UA team level the prior year. And now he's shining at the senior team level. You know, he's big, he's mobile, he's really physical. I think one of his big hits in the first game got around social media quickly.

And he's shown a little bit of offense at this tournament too. Not a ton, but I think as we record, he's got a couple of points. and, you know, I think you want to be careful of overrating one tournament too much. You know, when Marco Casper had his rise, he had a really strong year in the SHL for Rogel. When David Reimbacher had his rise, you know, he had a really good men's world championship, but he had a good year all year in L.A. Mort Seider had, you know, a really strong playoff in the DEL and then, you know, with the U20 team. and Solberg has a somewhat similar trend.

He had a really nice playoff in the Norwegian Pro League, although I think you talk to people who've watched that league, and they would say this is not the NLA. It's definitely not the DEL either. You know, this is not a major pro league that you're used to seeing, never mind, NHL talent, but even like SHL or KHL talent come out of. So I don't know how much more overrate that. But it's been a very impressive tournament for him.

and if he continues to play well, particularly when he plays against the NHL forwards, and I think this is a guy who definitely is working his way, quite frankly, into being in the conversation with that top group of defensemen. How high could you kind of see him go, I guess, at this point then? I know it's, you know, we're a ways out yet. He's got the rest of the tournament still, but.

Well, like, well, where do we think Branson Nygaard is going, Scott and Chris? Teens. Yeah, mid-teens, 20s. Okay. Well, he's been better than Nygaard in this tournament. So, I mean, yeah, but what does that matter? I mean, it does matter. And I'm not saying it's the only thing that matters, but it's going to matter. I think it's a, it's a compare.

It's going to be the very last hockey he plays. It's a high level of hockey. And it's going to be a comparison point. If, you know, if you go into a, if I was in a meeting with teams and they say, we have this guy here. I'm like, okay, well, I just saw that guy just play, you know, the men's world. and he was way better than the other guy. You know, why do we have this guy, like, you know, 10 spots higher on our list?

I'm not saying that's, I'm not saying it's why he's going to go higher. But I think he's at least a conversation that I think he's going to go at least around the same range of the draft. What's going to be interesting, Scott, is you have a guy like Solberg who's made this kind of great down-the-stretch case at some big international events. And the other D that might be kind of the next up after those six. You did mention Emery, too, so maybe we should include him in that conversation. But the other one is Adam Urechek, who hasn't played since the world juniors, hasn't had any time to make this case. We saw a lot of really interesting tools from him before he got hurt. How do you even go about kind of comparing a Urechek to a Solberg with that huge difference in the way that their seasons played out?

It's tough. I think the Yurichick evaluation might be the most difficult one teams have to make in the first round. Certainly there was a little bit of that with Aaron Kivi Haru coming out of his injury, but it looks like Keevi Haru may not even. be a first round pick at this point any longer. In your check's case, I think the expectation and the consensus is still but he's going to be a first round pick. And yet it's one thing for every team to say that. And it's another thing, as Corey sort of talked about earlier, it's another thing to

actually step up and make that pick with a first round pick that has huge value after the kid hasn't played since boxing day, right? So it's coming out of, I think people will rest on what he did last summer and how good he looked in international play last summer. and sort of the conversation coming out of that was could this kid be a potential top 10 pick kind of thing like there was there was that kind of buzz around year check he's still got good size he's still a good skater he's going to be a good skater once the knees recovered he's got length he's got room to fill out he's shown some confidence at his age level he's

shown an ability to defend against pros he's played in what i would argue is a better league than say the Norwegian League, although that Czech League isn't great either. And frankly, I didn't think he was actually very good in the fall. And I think he probably would tell you that he underperformed too. I've spoken with him a couple of times. He's a pretty open book. So yeah, it's going to be tough. Like that's a very, very complicated, complicated thing. And ironically enough, teams have been through it with his brother, right? Like, David also had any injury in his draft year. But he came back at the end.

Yeah, and that was a huge boost. So, yeah, I don't know. I think he is, I mean, certainly the Russians are a wild card, but it feels like your check is the real, the real wild card of that sort of, I don't know, 13 to 25 range. Yeah. For what it's worth, right before I published my final rankings every year, I usually said it around a couple of some NHL people.

I think I had Eurecheck like top 15. And I never had anybody tell me to get him higher. And I had a couple of people tell me he's got to get lower than that, just due to the various uncertainties and risks in his game. I'm not saying he's going to go much lower. I think he probably goes right around that range in the draft personally. But I do get the sense there isn't like a ton of Eurecheck love in the league right now. So that kind of brings to a question.

I'm going to pull up in the mailbag for this one. Red Wings Prospects asks, What's the maximum amount of defensemen that you can see going in the top 15? I think Eurocheck has to be in that conversation. It sounds like Corey Solberg has to be in that conversation. I think he is. I mean, my last mock, he was at 16, just saying Lewis. So obviously, I think he's in that range.

I think I had your check at 14, you know, and I think I look at those situations. I think of, you know, I think San Jose definitely needs to get a defenseman with that 14 pick. And so I'm thinking one of those two is the most, I think it's probably going to be in either, any of my mocks right towards the very end. I probably give them either Eurecheck or Solberg, quite frankly. And then I look at St. Louis, and I think they need a defenseman too. This question I've asked you, Max, and since Redweens prospect asked, is it feels like Solberg and Yerechek both fit their profile.

Could Detroit take a defenseman on 15? They could. I'm almost positive that this guy's asking the question because he's hoping for forwards to drop because of the run on defensemen, right? Because forward is the bigger need, I think, in Detroit. But I don't think you can say it for as many second round picks as the Red Vings have used on defensemen. I still think that they could use another really good bet top four guy there. And the debate then becomes like how confident are you that you're a check and Solberg are that like bonafide top four guy?

Because I think you can probably say they're better than like a Willinder, right, Scott? Yeah, but I was going to say, and how confident are you that Axel Sandine Pelica and Simon Edmondson are going to sort of live up to where they were taken, right? which, I mean, obviously, Sandy and Pelica had a really positive season on the whole. Right. Won the SHL title and all of that. But they've got to weigh both sides of that if they're going to take a D. It does feel, it feels to me like forward should be the bigger priority there, but Detroit has surprised me at the draft in the past.

Oh, well, Solberg's trajectory is very similar to Casper's Siders, just in terms of just whether, I'm not saying he's the same caliber of prospect, particularly of Sider, but just the season similarities have a lot of rhymes there in terms of the way he plays has a lot of rhymes to what they tend to value in terms of answer the guy's question you know we have the consensus defenseman lefshunov saliv dickinson yak and chuck parrick boyam you know those those six should all be all long gone i don't know if i'd miss any of the obvious ones there scott no those six are going to be gone in the first 13 or 14 i would say even 10 or 11 quite you know it's possible and then I think after that I would bet one of those two other ones your check or Solberg are going to go in the top 15 that would be my bet right now and I wouldn't rule out both for them I'm not saying they would but I wouldn't rule up that

possibility but my bet would be one of those I would guess seven defense men in the top 15 right now if they're looking at both teams right like you could see buffalo maybe on a Eurocheck they need a right shot that you probably don't see Buffalo on Solberg with the lefties they have. But you got San Jose in there too. Philly, they could probably do whatever they want. They've got enough needs there. It's not, I mean, I think seven feels like the safe bed here, but is eight? I think, I think Minnesota needs a defenseman too. Yep. Yeah. Going back to a conversation we had in the, in the previous segment, too,

if that happens, it probably also coincides with Cole Eisenman being available in the late teams and a player like Constellanius who didn't finish his season particularly stronger. Although after a strong playoffs, a player like Consta Heleneus may be slipping after you 18 worlds and men's worlds. Like those kinds of names, if we're seeing both Solberg and Yorchek go high, those kinds of names are going to, it's going to inevitably mean that those guys are lingering.

Yeah, Heleneas will be an interesting one because, like, I don't think he had a great 18s, none of the Finns do. I think him, Kivahar, you, Emil Hemming, all hurt their stocks there. And then he doesn't really get to play with the senior team right now. He's a healthy scratch as we record right now. see whether that changes the tournament goes on. I think the Finland lose today to Austria. No, they did.

Oh, well, yeah, that could change things. But we'll see how the tournament progresses. He's a great, you know, a very good hockey player. And he said, had a great playoff there in a league. So you've got to balance all the information there. My bet would be more if he's at top 10. It's like right at the end of the top 10. I would guess more early teens right now for him.

Yeah. But we'll see how the draft. process plays out. Oliver Cappanin, the half second rounder from a couple of years ago, has been outstanding for them and really had a great last couple of seasons. He's going to Timra next season where his coach will be Oliocan, who's coached against him the last couple of years. And it feels like he's, he's on a bottom six center sort of path for Montreal, which in the second round is good value. He's had a nice sort of year and a half here. All right. We're going to take a quick break right there, and we'll come right back with a really

loaded mailbag. All right, gentlemen, to the mailbag we go. And I did want to say this is one of the best rounds of mailbag questions we've had on this show. So great job to the listeners. Scott, we're going to start with you here. Patrick McConnell wants to know what sets Zane Porek apart from all the other recent top offensive defensemen in the past few years. He lists Brandt Clark, Olin Zellwiger, Axel Sandin Pelica, Denton, Matechuk, Pavlov, and even his contemporary this year, Zee Boye. Well, first of all, shout out to Patrick McConnell, because if that's the Patrick M from Cori and I's

comment section. This guy is a machine with prospect questions. So, no, but Zane, Zane's, I think what makes Zane difference. And I'm working with a feature on a big feature on Zane right now. So it's been top of mind in conversations I've literally had with multiple people over the last 48 hours. But I think what is so unique about Zane is just the way that everything slows down for him. One of the criticisms, obviously, of Zane all year and really for the last two years, even going back to his minor hockey days has been that he can look almost like he's disinterested out there. He stands on the back of his feet and stands and looks around at the play. And then the puck comes to him and boom, he's making a play.

And I think part of that is often viewed as laxadaisical. Evan Bouchard was viewed in much the same way when he was in London, just like he wasn't sort of into the game. And some of that is carried over a little bit with Evan Bouchard, even when he went to hockey Al Spenskin and started his pro career and then obviously in the NHL a little bit as while. But I think with Zane, the beauty of it is that he's then suddenly, he looks like he's standing around out there and then suddenly he's in exactly the right spot and he's making exactly the play that he needs to be making. And he's got all of the tools he needs to once

he gets to those spots to make that play, whether it's a huge shot, a shot that, Denton Matechuk, or then in terms of those, that question, Brent and Clark didn't shoot it like him. Olinzell-Wager didn't shoot it like him. Denton Matechukuk, didn't shoot it like him. Nintu Kov didn't shoot it like him. William doesn't shoot it like him. So that's a part of it. I think we all know Axel Sandian Pelica has, that's a weapon for him for sure. But it's just the way, it's just the way that he processes the game.

He may not look like he's sort of into the game, but he is watching everything. And then when the puck lands on his stick, he's got all of the tools he needs to make a play. So I think it's that part. I mean, all of those players did things a little bit differently. Brandt was just a little bit of a unicorn in the way he skated and the way he sort of operated on the ice.

Zellweger obviously was so busy with his skating and how active he could be in a game. But with Zane, obviously, it's 30 plus goals and almost 100 points is one thing. But the way that he does it is just by picking teams apart inside the offensive zone. And it's almost an indescribable quality where it's not, he's not, I mean, he can break ankles, but he's not out there breaking ankles in the traditional sense. He's not Kail McCar making people miss with his shiftingness and his skating and wowing you that way. It's more of a sort of tactical way that he goes about it.

All right. Next one's for Corey from Brett Sodorik. He wants to know how worried should a team be by Caden Lindstrom's injuries and the missed time this past season. And in terms of the gap, how big is it between him and Tija Ginnla? Flash, is it a stretch to say Tijit at four? All right. Those are a lot of questions. So let's try and break them up. Let's let's dive with the injuries. Well, I want to die to the Teesh first, actually, because I think I got to, we got to figure out where we think about Teesh first before we start comparing him to a Ginnla. So I think depending on who you talk to in the league, they give you different opinions on Tejah Gindla. There are those who think he is a consideration for that high in the draft, whether

it's 11th of 4, Montreal at 5, U2 at 6, Ottawa at 7, you know, all of maybe, obviously Calgary or 9, a whole other issue there. But there are people who think he's basically a premium name. And those, you know, I think we all agree watching Teet that he's really skilled. We all agree watching Tej that he's got a tremendous shot, that he's a good skater. His compete level really impressed me over the course of the year, the interior offense. Those are all positives. Where I think the debate is on Tejj is that UI is the hockey sense. There are some who think this is a super smart player, a really instinctive player who can make plays, who has a really high-end brain to the next level. And those people who think that think he's among

the very, very best forwards in this draft. And then there's those who have maybe more, think, average hockey sense questions on him. And those people tend to think he's more of a teens type of player. I tend to lean towards that camp personally from what I've seen. When I look at him and his production and a play style, I think about where I had Colby Barlow this time last year. And I think, you know, okay, they both have great shots. They both good skaters.

They both work hard. I think teachers a little bit more natural skill. I don't think either were the smartest players. Barlow went around 17, I think, around that draft. So I would have Teage grade about five or six, seven spots higher in, you know, comparing the two of them. But if you think, you know, Tees is not only more skill, but much smarter, too, then you're talking about a premium name. Better skater. Yeah, I have the skating compared similar, but it gets it depends where you landed on Barlow.

Comparing him to Lindstrom, very different style of players. You know, Lindstrom is a freak athlete. Maybe, you know, you know, tremendous skater, big, powerful, you know, direct player with his skating and his skill and ability to score goals. Not a premium playmaker by any means. Neither is a ginnla for what I see. But I think Ginnla is more skilled. But I would lean towards Lindstrom just because, you know, he's nearly four inches taller. He's a better skater.

He's much more physical. He could shoot the puck well, too, even if not, as a ginnler shot. And then the last question is how concerned are you about his injuries? Quite concerned. I think back injuries in a young player are always really concerning. I think teams, I think, you know, I think every team I talked about Lynch from all answer the same thing. We're waiting to the combine. We're seeing how he is when he shows up, what he says in the interviews, does he go through the workouts?

You know, and then you have to have the doctors look at him and make a decision on what they think about the back. situation. This is a Gabe Volardi situation where you're worried this is going to be something that's going to flame up and potentially cost him years, or is this just something that's going to be gone by the fall and he's ready to go and there's no more issues. But I think, kind of like the Demodov conversation we had earlier, I think with a premium pick, you have to be absolutely sure. And unless a team is absolutely sure on this player, I would have some reservations about taking him in the top five. All right. Next one is, for Scott from Jonathan Barnes.

The Blue Jackets seem to have a lot of decent to great prospects at all positions except goalie, but their defense pipeline looks smallish and offensively oriented. Do you see this factoring into a difficult choice between Saliavin-Lyin-Lynden-Lindström, assuming Salabrini, Demadov, and Lev Schnavko, 1,2, 3? Well, I'm not sure I view their D pipeline as particularly small. Obviously, Denton-Metechuk is 5-11, 5-11 and a half, and isn't going to be a sort of bigger player at the NHL level below average size for a D man these days. But I mean, your check's a big boy.

Jose is not too small. Pardon? Ozael's not that small. He's six and six years. He doesn't have a great year though. I don't think he's like a top prospect. Yeah. Yeah.

So I don't know whether size has to play too much into the, into the conversation in terms of defense. And I think you just look at Anton Soliav and you make a judgment call on whether you think he can be a, first pairing defensemen, whether you think the skating and some of the offense that he showed, especially early on this season and the length and all of it will really piece together nicely as an NHL player, whether you think he can think the game and become even more of a physical force. He led that he led torpedo and hits this year, but I think teams in speaking with teams,

they still want him to sort of impose himself on games more. I think if you can come to all of those determinations, then certainly the idea of Mettechuk, Iurecheck and Salaev as three pieces of your top four of the future is hard not to get excited about. But on the flip side, and this is going to be a bit of a waffle answer, on the flip side, the idea of Adam Fantilia and Caden Lindstrom, two players who actually profile a lot of like each other. Obviously, Fantilli was a much more premium prospect, had a longer track record of success, was a name, all of that. But in terms of six foot three, can skate, physical competitors, hard to, play against quick twitch hands can shoot it goes to the net interior game the idea of having two

of those guys which are incredibly hard to find at the very top of your your lineup as kind of a one two down the middle is also really exciting so i think that it's a boring answer but the answer to that question is that as long as lynstrom's health checks out and as long as you believe that the salive that we saw this year is going to continue to take important steps then it's a it's a win-win situation. Like either of those guys feel like their natural fits. We already talked about the Russians who are present already with Columbus and their willingness to potentially go there.

That could help with Salaev as he comes over and sort of adjusts in North America. And then Lindstrom and Ventilly feels like a match made in heaven if Lindstrom's medicals get to where a team like the Blue Jackets would want them to be. So I really think you don't need to think too long and hard about either of those decisions in that slot. and I wouldn't read too much into the fact that Denton Machetech's on the smaller side. Like, Denton Matechuk's just a good hockey player and is going to be a good part of a top six blue line. I have lost the name of the question answer for this next one.

So I apologize if this is you. But they want to know, as Nate Danielson has been surpassing expectations since joining Portland, or is this on par to what you think he would be with better teammates? Corey, I know you were a big Danielson believer last draft. Let's start with you on this one. Yeah, more on par for sure. think there's going to be minor debates on his offense at the next level until he shows it at the next level.

But, you know, obviously fantastic playoffs there with Portland, at least until the very end, although he had that one nice goal against Moosh Jaw there in the finals. You know, when I watched the games, I think he was the player that stood out the most consistently for Portland, even in the finals where they got swept because of the size, the skating. I think there is legit offensive skills there too. And even about Danielson, you know, you don't think his year was amazing. in Brandon, but I actually thought towards the end of the world juniors thought he was quite good there for Canada,

and then obviously just great with Portland through the end of the year and into the playoffs. You know, it looks like a top six center in the NHL one day. Could be a really nice compliment, I think in the two spot to Larkin. I guess with the debate, it's always, you know,

is it going to be Danielson or Casper there? I guess I would lead more Danielson right now for Detroit's future. And yeah, I don't know, I think it's all, I think on par for me, quite frankly. Scott, you have any thoughts on Danielson's playoff run? Yeah, I mean, he was good. He was really good. He was really good.

That whole stretch with Portland became a big difference maker for them. That team, I think, over exceeded even their own expectations this year. They wanted to be good. But the decision to go out and sort of acquired Danielson was driven by the fact that I think they were a little bit better than they expected. Luca Kagnoni was one of the best players in that league this year. There were some players who really stepped up in that group. their 20-year-olds were all really good.

But Danielson changed the look of that team. He changed the makeup of that team after his arrival, and he lived up to the billing of the top prospect that he's been for years now, and looked like an older player as well, which he is, right? And he's a late birthday from last year's draft. He just looked like closer to pro-ready than a lot of the, even a lot of the drafted, highly drafted players in the WHL this year. So credit to him.

I still view him as more of a, I'm not completely sure on top six upside, but if he's a middle six center for you, he's probably going to be a good player and an important part of a good team. And he has the skating and the athleticism and he can shoot it. And the tools are there for him to be a good NHL player. I'm just not sold on sort of how high that impact is going to be. But he'll be a piece of the future and a piece of the top nine for the Red Wings. It was a great playoffs.

I sat down to watch a Terrick pair. Parasack game just for draft stuff. And it ended up being the matchup was Parashek's line against Danielson's line, that great Prince George team. And it ended up becoming a Danielson watch for me. He was really, really good from what I saw in those playoffs. All right, Corey, next one's for you. JP Claremount wants to know, since we seem to collectively forget every year at the draft,

the teams favor centers in D with size and skill, how likely is it really to see Demadov go second overall or anything before five? Is he special enough to challenge that, especially when playing at the MHL level? We talked about this a little bit earlier, Corey, when we were talking about Chicago and number two. Yeah, and it's something that I, you know, I put up my first mock draft a few days ago. And whenever I put out a mock or put out a ranking, this season, you know, the feedback I always get from the NHL people is, you know, those big centers and defensemen or even in the case of Seneca, winger, you know, they're going to go higher. You know, they say, you know, get Dickinson higher, get Lindstrom higher, get Yakumchuk higher. I think that's how a lot of hockey teams tend to think is that those, like said,

the priority positions are at the top of their minds when it comes to the draft. And we saw it last year in the Mitchcock conversation. Like I talked about earlier in the episode, I really don't think he figured in for Columbus when it came to their pick. I don't know how much they really figured in for San Jose. I think they discussed it. But obviously, they favored Will Smith the day day and the day. And then obviously Montreal and Arizona both picked the defense.

ahead of Mitchcoff. But there were teams, quite frankly, that would have absolutely loved to pick Michkoff. And if they would have had the two, three, fourth overall pick, I think there were some organizations out there that would have made that decision. So I think it really depends on the organization. Their tolerance for risk, whether it's the position, whether it's a Russian factor, whether it's a lack of live viewings, and their opinion of the player. I think just like I said, there's differences in terms of how teams would approach risk.

I think there's teams who approached Demandolph differently. There are teams who have, and scouts talk to him who adore Demadoff, who think he is that potential gamebreaker, I said earlier. And there are scouts I talked to who don't love that player, who have them like closer. You know, I have them like around eight, nine on my list and I've gotten some blowback on that. But there's a lot of people in the league who have them right around there as a hockey player. It really depends on all those variables in terms of trying to do a mock job. But I don't know where Chicago, Anaheim, and Columbus fall in all of these questions. But to answer J.P.'s question, yes, it's very practical that you could see Lef Schenoff, Dickinson, Lindstrom, whether it maybe is Ziv-Boom or Saliv or Yakimchuk or whoever go above Demadov just for all the reasons that I've talked about.

All right. Next one is for Scott Vadim Tickenov says, the San Jose Sharks draft Cole Iserman to reunite him with Macklin Celebrini, or is the defenseman the preferred option number 14? We touched on this a minute ago, but I do think this point is interesting about, you know, reigniting the Celebrini-Izerman, Shattuck St. Mary connection. Yeah, I don't know if we've actually mentioned it on air, but certainly the four of us have kind of joked about it off air

and sort of thrown it around as a hypothetical. It's tough for me to envision if only because if there's one team that is going in that sort of top 15, top 16 with one of those picks that looks like they're going to really zero in on a specific position, it feels like that might be San Jose at 14 just because of the makeup of their pool. They've put a lot of capital into adding sort of forward prospects to that group. Obviously, Celebrini and winning the lottery changes the equation too. I think they actually would have been a team that would have had they been two, three, four. They would have strongly considered sort of one of those top D. But you look at that group now, Philip B-Stadt, Quentin, Mustie, Will Smith. They acquired David Edstrom via trade of first rounder from last year from Vegas.

It's just starting to fill out at forward. They're going to add Macklin-Cellegrini to that group. And as a result, I do think it becomes tricky to imagine them taking Celebrini at 14. Now, teams have doubled up on teammates before. It's actually been, if you go back through the history books of the NHL draft, it's actually a fairly common thing, including with multiple first-round picks. And these guys aren't just teammates. Like when I did my Eisenman story earlier in the year,

it's like a family over for Thanksgiving kind of vibe between the two of them. They text every day. The chemistry was there at Shattuck. Obviously, it's been a while since they've played together. But they're like brothers. So that piece of it is not nothing. I'm sure they're going to talk about each other and be asked about each other a lot in the combine process

and in the interview process. So maybe there is a natural reunion there. But if that happens, suddenly there's really not a lot coming on that blue line in terms of the pipeline for the sharks. I briefly mentioned Cagnoni in our Portland discussion. And Cagnone was certainly one of the best players in the CHL this year, like without question actually. But there's still a lot of question marks about a player that size

and what that looks like in the NHL and whether Luca Kegnone can even play in the NHL. So really outside of Kegnone, you look at Shakir Mukmadulin, and there's not a lot else within that group on the blue line. So to see them double up on forward and really neglect that obvious need, I'm not sold on it, but it certainly would be a lot of fun to see the two of them together. You know what? That actually is a great reason.

Hey, maybe they're so close, Corey. Why doesn't Macklin consider going back to be you, to be with his good friend. Because he's not going back. I forgot earlier when we were talking about Lev Shanov. I really meant to throw in there. Corey, is Lev Shanov going to be back in school next year?

But we'll save that for another episode. Next question is for Corey. Aside from Yesper Walshdad, who's a young goal you can see stepping in and making a big impact next season? For me, that would probably be Yaroslav Ascarov with Nashville. I just think next year is probably his time.

He's been after what he was over in Russia after his draft, he got inconsistent playing time with the scout organization. But he's been in the American League now for two years. He's played a lot of hockey for those two years. Been one of the best goalies in the American League over that stretch. He's a really interesting player and that there is not a lot of goalies at the highest levels of hockey where when you watch, a game, the player you notice most consistently is the goalie, but Ascarov has a way of when

you're watching the game that he just jumps out at you, whether for good or sometimes bad reasons or strange reasons, quite frankly, at times. You know, he's just so super athletic and aggressive. And yeah, I think next easier is his time. Obviously, Nashville is a situation when you say Saros's deal coming up to free agency. And I would expect that. Next year they're going to split starts with those two and kind of see what they have in Yaroslav and have to make a decision from there. All right. Next one is from Sazon Hunter. Why is Michael Hage so low, not seeing the flaw, looks like a one C to me.

I know we have some differing opinions on Hage in here. So I want to start with Scott here, but let's go around the table here and just hear what everyone has to say. Well, I think one C is a pretty lofty expectation for any player. You typically only see those guys go in the top five, maybe top seven in a draft class. Pretty rare to see one emerge from beyond that. And if they do, it's normally a special circumstance of injuries or a kid who just takes off in some weird way. But in Hage, I mean, I do believe he's got real second line potential if things break right for him. He was, and we've talked about it a little bit on the podcast before, he was for me, the best player in the U.S.

in the second half of this season. That Chicago team really struggled in the front half. You'd talk to their coaching staff. They were really sort of fighting it and trying to figure out their way out of it. And then they were much better in the second half and became a more competitive team. But the biggest reason for that was Hage just sort of taking off. And he's got in terms of the question, which kind of hints at him having all the tools, he does have what you look for.

He's 6-1, 6-2. He's long. He can absolutely fly. he's a tremendous skater. He can handle the puck and make plays at speed. He can shoot the puck. I don't think he's an excellent two-weight center type. And I'm not sure this,

the actual individual skill level is sort of elite elite, but he makes a ton of plays at the USHL level. He was a top-top prospect coming up. And he seems to have re-grabbed that for me this season. Like he looked the part. He obviously lost last year to shoulder surgery, but he looked apart, especially in the last path,

thirds of this season, like a top prospect again for me. And I'm a big believer in him. I'm not sure he's going to be a top 15, top 20 pick, but that's the range I'd take him. I think with Hague, I think the talent is obvious, he said the skating, the skill. You know, his best games, like I'm thinking of that. I think he had a four or five point game against Madison this year where you watch that and he just looked absolutely dynamic and look like that potential, like high

draft pick that the questionnaire was asked. about. But for me, I do think there was a consistency thing when I watched him this year. I do worry about his plays a little on the perimeter at times. I did think the compete can be in and out, although obviously much less in the second half where he was extremely consistent, inconsistently good. So that is my one concern with him. If you're not as concerned on the compete, then like, I'm not sure about a center in the NHL with the way he plays, but he almost kind of reminds me of Jordan Kairu a little bit in the way he plays with the dynamic elements in his skating and his skill, but maybe not being the best away from the puck, the most physical player in the world.

But I like I said, I think I talk to people who, you know, who maybe fit in, I think he could be a top 20 pick. I do. I mean, I think there is a lot of love for this player, but there's also people who are quite concerned on to compete and the consistency and wonder if the way he plays is going to translate the higher levels. Yeah. And I don't, I don't need to rehash, you know, much of what those guys said.

I think that compete is probably one of the factors there. I, you know, I've definitely talked to a few scouts that, that, that have, have, have voiced that concern and have seen it with my own eyes at times. And I think especially earlier in the season, and I think the other thing that's important to remember about Hage is, is, you know, the incredible amount of adversity that the kid has been through in the last year, you know, he lost his father tragically over the summer, you know, to a much lesser degree had lost almost his entire season, his entire rookie season, the USHL to injury.

And going through such a thing, I think that that was part of what impacted his first half. I mean, I think that he, there was an emotional factor there where, you know, there were games where he did look a little checked out. He looked a little bit less, less impactful. And I think what what he showed in the second half is much closer to the, what we expect him to be. And so I agree with both these guys. I think top 20 is very reasonable. I think it's also reasonable to say he might not be a center long term. I really like that Jordan Kairu comparable that you had there, Corey.

I think that is a pretty solid one for him. And obviously, that's an effective player in the NHL. and a guy that, you know, when he's at his best, can impact games. I really do think that's what we're going to see with Michael Hage as well. So, you know, I think late teens, early 20s are going to be a real spot for him to go. All right. Corey, this one will be quick. Lord Rupert Everton wants to know what hope is there for the Blues to get an impact defenseman at number 16.

Talked about this a little bit earlier when we did the mocks. Yeah, and I guess it depends how much. Let's just say those two defensemen we mentioned like Eurecheck and Solberg. Those are guys I project currently as top four defensemen in the NHL. I don't know whether that's impact defensemen. But here's the one where I'm wondering. I look at the way the mock drafts may play out. And if there is one or two forwards, if someone does love a Tija Ginla,

someone does love Beckett Seneca a lot, I almost wonder if you think about there's three defensemen, I think of a possibility to get a little bit later. What would be Carter Yak and Chuck, although that's not the one I'm really betting on. But I do just when you look at the history of the draft, I could see Azeve Boyum or particularly Zane Perak start to leak into the early teens a little bit. And that might be a possibility there where you could be like, yeah, like there's an issue with this player, but man, there's a lot of upside if we hit on them.

And frankly, with Solberg, it depends on what you think of the player too. Some people, I talk to scouts who think he's better than Boyle. It's a minority opinion, but they exist out there. All right. Gierbson for Hart, Chris, wants to know how Cole Eisenberg compares to the top past end, goal scores pre-drafts such as line a goatee coffield the brinket and oliver waltrow oh yeah um that's a tough one um you know i i think i think you look at at all those guys and and there's certainly the the volume shooting dynamic uh from from them you know i'd say that cofield and and de brinket to me

one of their their best attributes was the ability to find space the ability to put themselves in scoring positions. And that's actually been one of the things that I haven't loved about Cole Eisenman's game this year. I haven't seen that necessarily that that putting himself in spots to score consistently. It's just that he's got such a tremendous shot. And when he, you know, when he's on the power play, the one timer is always going to be there in different things like, like it is for those other guys. So I think that those two guys, you know, they really pop into, pop into space. Patrick Linae had the size factor on top of, of his goal scoring ability, the ability to get to the interior, the just tremendous release that he has and had and has.

You know, and then, you know, Oliver Wallstrom, I feel is closer, you know, in terms of that. I think that Cole probably has more giddy up, you know, in his stride. He also has a little bit more tenacity, you know, in the game. I think the compete level is higher, although Oliver's really grown that as a pro. I think that that's something that he lacked significantly. as a as a prospect. You know, but I mean that, you know, if you look at those guys and I was thinking about this, this very thing about the De Brinket and Caulfield and, you know, we compared Cole to DeBringk it quite a bit.

And right now, I mean, Alex Debrinket seems like quite a bit further ahead, you know, and, and that's, so that's kind of a lofty thing. And I don't think for Cole Iserman, that's a place that he's, you know, necessarily getting to. I think I look at some of these other guys. I've been trying to figure out NHL comps for Cole Eiserman, you know, and that's been been difficult. And the one that I ended up landing on was an undrafted guy in Frank Petrono. So, you know, like it was that was kind of, you know, where I ended up with that.

And obviously, you know, we look at Frank Vitano now. He's a tremendous goal score. He was an all star this season and, you know, can shoot. But, I mean, I think for Cole, you know, some of the, some of the complaints that we had about those players, and I think particularly Wallstrom, and in hindsight, you know, I had Wallstrom pretty high and I would have had a much lower, you know, based on the set of ideals I have now for what it takes to be a goal score in the NHL, you know, in terms of what I'm valuing. But yeah, I mean, I think for me, and particularly, you know, you've got those guys, he's behind

line A, Calfield and De Brinket in that regard. I have him compared to Owen Tippett. What would you think of that one? Yeah, I think that's a good one too. And part of the reason that I didn't pick Owen Tippett is because I already knew that you did. So I had to pick somebody else. But that is a good. That is a good one.

I like that one. Tippett's got that high-end skating, though. And Cole's skating is an issue, but Tippett can fly. Yeah. I also think that might be a little bit more creative with a puck. But I have to think of somebody. So that's what I took. Yeah.

All right. We're going to end with you, Corey, here. Maxwell wants to know if you can make the case for Lev Shunov and Demadov that some scouts in Chicago's draft meeting will be trying to make. Yeah, it's a really good question. So, like I think we talked about this at the, really at the top of the episode, a really similar topic. So we'll just kind of be capping him now at the end of the episode. I think there's a few variables.

One is the player evaluation. Again, let's presume that you love Les Shootup because not everybody does love Love Shoot-Up. Some people are worried that this is a physically maxed-out player, that, that, you know, long-term is not going to be special offense in the NHL. let's presume you love the player. Then, you know, we have a 6-2 mobile defenseman. We love his offense. We love his brain, love his sick skills. You know, showed a lot of offense in the USHL as an underage.

He showed a lot of offense in college on a top team, played big minutes. Just, well, there's a lot of traits here that make me think that he could be a potential high in the line of defensemen, maybe even number one defenseman. My NHL comparable for this player is Noah Dobson, who also had his game picked apart a little bit when he was at age. Mind you for A, maybe it's not dynamic, you know, skill, whatever. And then obviously hasn't been, hasn't been an issue since he's gotten to higher levels. So this is, and so this is what we think of this player. It's like, okay, well, we love Demodont, too.

We love him. You think he's outstanding. It's like, okay, well, all right, well, we knew he's had outstanding skill. He dominated the MHL the year before. Didn't really get challenged this year. Went back to the same level he dominated. And surprise, surprise, he dominated again. and, you know, we didn't really get to see him against pros.

Like, we got to see Mitch Kov last year. That would have been nice. Even though he did have a good camp, actually beat Mitch Kov for a job for Skaw out of camp. So that was the one time we got to see him versus men and he did play well for a couple of weeks. So that's a variable there. And it's like, well, this is a really important traffic. And let's consider, you know, can we find Demadov in the free agent market? It's like, yeah, you know, Panarin went to free agency.

Johnny Goodroll, what to free agency. I'm sure Minnesota fans won't like this, but there's a chance. Carras off can get the free agency. Barner could get there in a year. Yeah. So, you know, that's, you know, and they'll say, well,

defensemen get to free agency. It's like Petrangelo, it's a free agency. Yeah. And then it's got a Stanley cup on both ends of that transaction. So, you know, I'm not sure if that's really the argument in your favor there. So those would be some of the main conversation points. And then there's a familiarity. Like I think it's different for media than it is for scouts.

is that our jobs are on the line with this pick, quite frankly. Nobody was going to yell of us is Connor Bedard doesn't work down. And somehow Leo Carlson became the best player from this draft in five years. Nobody's going to yell at us over this one. But they might yell at us over this one. If we screwed this one up and Demadov is an ex-Nakita Filthal or Alexander Sv or Stanislov Chistov or or Nikolai Sherdav or something like that. Like, yeah, you know, if it's one of those, like, uh, it's, it's, you know, Chris just mentioned Radulov, like, you know, that could turn our career sideways real quick. Um, so you want to

make sure you get this one absolutely right. And Demandov is definitely way more skilled than left shoot off, way more skilled. We can see that on video clearly, but are you sure? Are you 100% sure on this player after not seeing him live at least 20 times this season like you probably have with left shoot off? And again, you have a premium position, you have a familiarity, he's a great player. Why try to overthink this? Why try to Galaxy Brain it? Just take the awesome defenseman who's here, who we know, who's going to be a major part of our team for a long time.

All right. Good stuff, gentlemen. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect series. Remember, you can catch more of Chris over at Flow Hockey and on his podcast, Talking Hockey Sense. You know where to find Scott and Corey's stuff at Theathletic.com. We'll talk to you soon.