The Athletic Hockey Show - 7 NHL goalie battles heading into training camp

Episode Date: September 18, 2024

Mark Lazerus and Jesse Granger present 7 goaltending battles to watch out for as NHL training camps open up, including if Jeremy Swayman can handle a full load for the Bruins, if the Detroit Red Wings can settle on a two man tandem from the four NHL goalies that have in camp, if Dustin Wolf can transfer his AHL success to the NHL and if the untested Joseph Woll and Anthony Stolarz can lead the Maple Leafs to the promised land in Toronto?Hosts: Mark Lazerus and Jesse GrangerExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello and welcome to the athletic hockey show. I am Mark Lazarus, joined by Jesse Granger, and after three long months of walking through the wilderness, we finally have hockey, sort of. IAG training camps, they're opening across the NHL players or they're bench pressing and they're vertically leaping and they're grunting and grimacing through bike sprints

trying to win their team's fittest player award on fitness testing before taking the ice tomorrow. I don't know. Are you like me? Do you like show up on the first day of training camp all excited and and rejuvenated from a long summer and refreshed and ready to go and see some hockey? Then like 20 minutes later they're doing like that drill where they're on one leg and twisting around. You're like, oh my God, I can't believe it's three more weeks until the season starts here.

And I'm losing my mind. Yeah, I'm excited for the first day of camp because I don't have to be physically tested. I'm glad we don't have to do a bike sprint when we show up or the numbers will be poor. They should do that. We should, you know, like Chicago's got. their fittest hawk and they take a real competition, we should have like fittest hawk beatwriter. It would be the saddest competition in the history of the world. Do they announce who the, who the, like, fittest hawk is? They announce. They don't announce it, but the players usually

they'll let you know, Connor Murphy won it again or yeah, Patrick Sharp used to always win it. It's a big deal. Like these guys take that stuff seriously. They should, you know, we should have like a, I don't know, like a donut eating contest or something in the press room to figure out who the least fittest beat writer is because that's the most appropriate of not. Alaminclature for us. I don't know, like, I don't know how like football and baseball, you know, writers do it where it's like seven weeks of training camp basically. Like two days in, I'm like, please get me to a preseason game. And then like 10 seconds into a preseason game, I'm like, please get me to the regular season. It's brutal. Yeah, I do it is nice that they,

the preseason starts almost immediately with hockey. Like obviously football, it's like, okay, we've got 50 pages of playbooks we have to learn in hockey. It's like, yeah, I think we can figure this out on the ice. We'll get it done. But it is, that's, That's one thing I always appreciate about hockey is it's like hockey's back and preseason is like three days later. So that's nice. And then the preseason is you're all excited to show up at the rink and then you realize how bad preseason hockey is again. Yes. Preseason is a crapshoot because of the like vet rules and all that.

Like I feel like some games, they're actually valuable and I want to be there. And then some games you see the roster that they're going to line up. And it's like, holy crap. Well, it's almost always like the home team is loaded up with their star players and the road team is a bunch of guys that nobody's ever heard of from the ECHL. So the games aren't like, you got one side that's not trying, but is super talented. And you got the other side, which is trying as hard as they possibly can, but they don't have the talent.

And it makes for very unusual hockey. The same day travel for the road teams on preseason games that vets are like, nope, I'm out of that. Sign me up for the three home games. I will not be flying out, playing a game, and flying back on the same day. That's exactly what it is. That morning skate in your town and then hop on a plane. You know, I once went through a game in Detroit, and the Blackhawks showed up.

They had traffic issues and flight control issues, and they showed up at 645 for a 7 o'clock game. And they didn't even care. Like, they didn't take a warm up. They're like, whatever. She's not there. There you. Well, we got Jesse Granger here. He is the athletics goalie guru.

And we're going to talk goalies today. We're going to get through the seven most interesting training camp battles at goal. And I'm going to be leaning very heavily. on Jesse here because nobody understands goaltending. I'm not sure Jesse really does either. He could be making it up and none of us are smart enough to call him on it. I'm not convinced this isn't some kind of a scam. But I want to start in Boston because Jeremy Swamen, still an RFA.

As of this recording, he has not officially signed yet. Seems like it's imminent. There's some reports out there. Potentially some really big money too for a guy who has not truly been a number one yet. What is your read on the Boston goalie situation and Jeremy Swamon's role there? Yeah, so most of these situations, I feel like the top two spots are up for grabs and maybe some other goalie can jump in there. This one in Boston is pretty settled in terms of who the top two are, and we know the order they're going to play. And like obviously Swamen is going to be the number one guy.

They traded Linus Olmark. Bezina winner, that's a lot of thrust put into Swamen. So you know he's going to get the bulk of the starts, but it's not like they're going to give him 60 games. Unis Corpusalo coming over from Ottawa. I expect him to be a lot better than he was in Ottawa, mainly just because he doesn't have to be the guy now. And you look at what Corpusolo did in Columbus when he was in a rotation. He was really good. I expect him to get back to that kind of play.

I don't think he's a world beater, but I think he's going to be solid for Boston. The Swamen deal is super fascinating to me because, like you said, he's never proven to be the number one. He's never been a number one for a regular season ever in his life. And he might get $8, $9 million a year, which is in like huge money for a goalie. And here are my thoughts. I think it's a risk because you haven't seen him do it. But I think there's so much pointing towards this guy is elite. Every goalie coach, every person I ever talked to,

they think the world of Jeremy Swayman in terms of his game, the mechanics of his game, the technique, all excellent. Every opportunity he's ever been given, he's been great. And Austin didn't have to trade the Vezna trophy winner, Linus Olmark away. They chose Swainman over Olmark essentially. Yes. They had Olmark.

They could have traded Swayman. They didn't have to give him a deal. They could have traded him. They could have probably gotten more for him than they did for Ollmark, just because he doesn't have the big cap hit. They traded away a Vesina winner who is not past his prime. This isn't a Vesna winner who's like on the decline. Linus O'Mark is still in the prime of his career.

They traded him away. The fact that Boston has that kind of confidence in Swayman tells me he is going to get the big deal, even though he hasn't proven it. And they, I think there's plenty of reason to give him that deal and believe that he can live up to it. It's a big risk, though. I mean, you know, we're talking about goalies here. And goalies, it's either, you know, you talk to people with half a brain and, okay, it's the single most important position in all of team sports. A lot of us feel that way.

And if you talk to NHLGMs, there are these interchangeable, replaceable, you know, meaningless people who are not worth spending any money on usually. So it's unusual now for a goalie to be given this kind of a contract, let alone one who's never. played more than 44 games in the season. So, I mean, ideally, we know Jeremy Swamen works in a rotation setting. And like you said, Corpusallo is coming in. He is capable of playing 35 to 40 something games. Why would you pay a goalie $8 million, $9 million if he's only going to play half the games?

Yeah, I mean, so that's the thing. I think he's going to play more than half the games. Not, again, I don't think he's going to play 70, but I expect him to play more than half. And Connor Hellobuck, Andre Vasselowski, these guys who play 65 games. a year. They deserve. Igor Chesterkin, Ilyos Seroquen, well, that's Serocon, not so much. He lost the job last year to Varlomov. Like those guys, I get it. You pay the guys that much money. But if you're going to be a rotational team, why would you invest the term and the money into a single goal? So I think it's because when goalies make the most differences in the playoffs, you want that

guy fresh for the playoffs. So you're okay rotating him so that you can have this $8 million goalie at his best in the playoffs. And then that's when. he earns the money to me that's like if you're the Bruins it's like look you're not going to earn your eight million playing 50 games a year it's just not like you said that's it's not worth that but if we play you 50 games so that you can be at your best when the playoffs get here that's when you earn the money win us games in the playoffs stand on your head and he did i mean swainman was amazing last year for them in the playoffs i yeah what they win fair that's fair you know the funny the funny thing is is people don't get paid in the playoffs that's

the best part. They don't actually draw a paycheck in the playoffs. They get paid in the regular season only. But you do get paid for that post-eat. No, I don't, I don't mean to slag on Jeremy Swainman. I think he's a very good goalie. It's just, it's fascinating to me that a team that is so adamant about not having a number one goalie would commit to a guy as if he is a clear cut, clearly defined a number one goal. They've been forced into it, right? They either have to, or you don't keep Jeremy Swamen. Like, it's, that's, that's it. Because Jeremy Swamon's not going to sign for five million. He's going to sign for more than that. So it's like either you don't have him anymore and you have to go find another goalie that can be good in rotation or you just pay him

the money. I do like just on your side of like this skepticism, I totally agree with it because part of it is part of the reason GMs are so hesitant to give goalies money is because to me the position is more about the mental side of things than anything else. And that's why it's so hard to evaluate. And I think that Jeremy Swayman is going to face a challenge this year that he's never faced before when you have Allmark, even when, okay, so like say last year, Swayman was the 1A because he was a little better than Allmark. He got the starts in the playoffs. But even as the 1A when you've got Linus Olmark next to you, the pressure, you aren't the guy. You aren't. The ship is going down with you if you don't play well because I've got Linus Olmark there.

If I have a bad week, no big deal. Linus comes in. He plays great. He says like he gets things back on track. I can work on my game and practice. The team isn't going to sink with me if I have a bad game if I have a bad week, if I have a bad month. That's not the case anymore. Eunice Corpusallo is not Olmark. You are the guy. And I do think that that is a completely different situation that requires a totally different mindset.

And we don't know if Jeremy Swamen can handle that yet. I think he can. The Bruins probably think he can, but we don't know for sure. So we're going to find out this year. It's not that he's, I mean, Corpusalo is a perfect example, right? He was doing great in Columbus. Not as good as Jeremy Swamen. It's a different level of goalie.

But Ottawa paid him all that money to be the guy. Yep. Complete disaster. Complete disaster. Because that's just not him. Is it Jeremy Swayman? We're going to find out. Yeah.

I mean, it also lends credence to the idea that maybe the team you're playing behind has a lot to do with how you perform as a goalie. Obviously, playing behind the Bruins is going to be a lot easier than playing behind the senators. I am, I will push back on that a little bit because I'm, I'm the senators,

Ben, all the sense fans listening to this. No, I'm like on the sense bandwagon because of all mark. All the senators underlying metrics, defensively are better than Boston's last year. Wow. It was just their goaltending was so bad that we couldn't see how good the defense was

because Corpusala let everything in. It's amazing. It's either the goaltending's fault or the goal, if the team is too good, the goaltending doesn't get enough credit. If the team is too bad, the goaltending doesn't get enough blame. And then sometimes it's just,

eh, the goalies are okay. Like, it's just, I'm telling you, you're making this stuff up. I'm convinced of it. I'm just convinced.

None of this is real. Goleys aren't real. They are figments of my imagination at this point. All right, let's move to Chicago, my backyard. You got a pretty clear cut number one last year in Peter Marazik, who had the best season of his career, arguably,

in terms of he was healthy the whole season. He played phenomenal. Like his numbers, anyone who watched the Blackhawks on a regular basis, speaking of teams that are difficult to play behind. Oh my God, what Peter Morazick had to face every night. He was phenomenal.

Like, he had like a 907, say percentage, and he might have been one of the best goalies in the league last year. Like, it was just that brutal what he was facing every night. His backup was Arviz Soderbloom, a rookie who just fell flat on his face. This was not ready for that moment yet. And that's why Marazic had to play so many games. So this offseason of Blackhaw's go out, they signed Laurent Braswa out of Winnipeg,

whose numbers were comparable to Connor Helibucks when Helibuck wasn't playing. And, you know, Brasw he had meniscus surgery in late August. We don't know if he's going to be ready by the start of the season, but it shouldn't be long into the season. So how do you envision this rotation workout? We're trying to figure that out here. I think ideally the Hawks would have a 41-41 rotation because there still are concerns about Marazic's house. You want to keep him healthy.

But we've never seen Brassois do that. He's always been a clear number two. Yeah. So now, Brasw having the surgery right before the season scares me a little bit on this. Not ideal for a goalie to have knee surgery, no. Especially a goalie who has had a lot of injury problems with Bershua. He has not been able to stay healthy. The one time he had a chance to kind of take the job.

and run with it was here in Vegas. And remember, he started, I mean, the Golden Knights won the Stanley Cup. Bershaw was the starting goalie for the first round and the first half of the second round against Edmonton. Again, he got hurt and Aden Hill came in and the rest is history. But I will say this, I just because I got to work with Breslaat quite a bit here in Vegas, to me, so LaRois, Bresla has been a career backup, his entire career for quite a while.

And usually you don't see a goalie go, whatever, six years as a pure... He's 31 years old. I think he still feels like he's a young guy, but he's been around a long time now. This is an entire career of being a backup. And you don't see those guys suddenly, boom, snap the fingers and he's a starter now. Versawe, I leave the door a little bit open that he could be a legitimate starting goal in the NHL for one reason. He had been dealing with hip and core issues dating back to junior hockey, like basically his entire life. And he told me those issues that I had, those limitations, I had to change the way I

played goal because I couldn't my body couldn't do the things I wanted to about a year and a half ago here in Vegas he had the surgery got it taken care of and suddenly he was he told me he's like it's unbelievable I can do the movements I want I feel like a different goalie since that point he's been elite the numbers are elite like he was great here in Vegas and it was like well the golden nights everybody looks every goal he looks good behind this defense they make it pretty easy on you aden hill Logan Thompson whoever they've thrown in there has been very good He goes back to Winnipeg where he had been before. We know what he looks like as Connor Hellibuck's backup.

And he goes back there and suddenly he's a way better goalie than he ever was the first. I was a big Connor Hellibuck for MVP for the Hart Trophy last year guy until it's kind of faded a little bit in March. And everyone's argument against me was Braswa's doing the exact same thing, if not better when he's playing. So, I mean, it's a fair point. Right. And I would argue that's not like, that's not an indictment on Hellebuck. That's just he just happened to have a backup goalie who's who had a really good season. He is a like a phrase like you hear in the goalie community like Bresua is a goalie coach goalie in terms of technique perfect.

What you need is when the play breaks down and the technique isn't good enough and you've got to make a play, that's where you want to see more out of Bresau. Like when he's within the structure of his game, he's unbelievable. It's again, playing behind Chicago. Like you said, it's not going to be the easiest. A little better this year. A little better this year. Can he make the out of structure saves is the challenge for Bersw. but I really do believe that he is a different goalie now than he was for the majority of his career.

And I'm leaving the door open that I think he could take that job and be the 1A by the end of the year. But I think I agree with you that because of his injury history, because of Morazix's age and everything, I think the most ideal situation is a perfect split between those two. Because Versaois is missing this camp, I'm very interested to see what the rookie, like what the two young kids do, the Soder Bloom and Drew Commesso, who I'm super high on. I don't know if the Hawks view commesso. Like I think commesso should be viewed as like the future franchise goalie. Like when this Chicago team is ready to win after the rebuild, like commasso should be the goalie.

That's how I view it. They would love for that to happen. I'm not sure they believe that yet, but they would love for that to be the case. Do you think they still see Soderblom as Soderblum as the as the higher ranked of those two in terms of the future? I think last year Soderblum struggled so much that they're not so convinced. They entered last season thinking Soderblum was that. guy. They thought he was a true potential number one goalie of the future. And he still might be.

He's a young guy still. It's one year behind a horrible team. So nobody's writing him off yet, but I think it's much more of a level playing field now. And Camesso's got a year of the minors under his belt now. He could be the one. I mean, if he has a better camp, they'll have no problem making Camesso the backup while Brasua is coming back. So it could be. I mean, Camacho, I think it was a second round pick. I mean, he's a he's a high profile high pedigree goalie. Another young guy, it just, it just takes. so long for these guys to develop. They just don't know how long it's going to take. Right. To me, that's like the camp battle. Like because Bresua's out, it was going to be Bresua

versus Marazic and whoever's better, like who's going to be the opening night starter. It might have been Marizik just off of, you know, hockey teams do it with the, this is our guy. He was here last year. But now that Bersw is out, to me, it's the Commesso versus Soder Bloom. Absolutely. If Camesso comes out and lights things on fire in preseason, it's like, okay, this, he can establish himself as it doesn't really impact this season, but he, He can be the guy moving forward in terms of who is this franchise looking to be. Because eventually this team's going to be good, right? They've got all these top picks.

Who's going to be the goalie when they're good? To me, that's the most important question when you look at Chicago goalies. Like, Marazek or Berswa this year, okay, it's kind of important. But to me, the big question is who's the guy when they want to win? And I think it could be commensal. I love him. Right at Boston University, US NDT guy, I think he has the potential to be really, really good. I just, like I said, I don't know if Chicago views are in the same way I do.

Okay, quick tangent. You mentioned that Brousa is like a goalie coach goalie, you know, technically sound and does all the right things. Corey Crawford was like that. Corey Crawford hardly ever made a spectacular save because he was always in the right position. He read the play well. He was just the perfect goalie coach goalie. Yep.

Now, Alex Steylock, who was on the Blackhawks a couple of years ago, is by far the most fun goalie I've ever seen. Like, goalies are usually not fun. He was fun. He was diving and flopping and double stacking and just frantic at all. all times in the crease just desperately frantically trying to make a save. And it was so much fun to watch and the players loved him. What do goalies like better?

Do you like the Dominic Hachick flopping around or do you get excited about boring, structurally sound goalies? You know what? That's a great question. I think it probably depends on who you ask. I appreciate both. I mean, like Mark Andre Fleury, who you got to see. He's a paddler too, yeah. He's just all over the place.

Half the saves look more impressive than they should because he's out of permission. Exactly. Because he's not in the right spot. But then like my favorite goalie to watch like my growing up like I love Sergey Babrovsky. He's a little bit of both. Sergei Bogovsky is very technically sound. But then when the play breaks down, how many highlight real saves do we see him?

He's got the crazy splits going across on the two on one. So I think into it used to be more acceptable. Like I think that you're not going to see many technically deficient goalies that just flop around like because the game's becoming so fast. You just can't do that. And because the goalies are so freaking big now, they don't have to do that. If you're 6.6.230 pounds, you don't have to flop around like a fish, which honestly, that brings me to Calgary, our next team that we're going to talk about.

Because Dustin Wolves, the little guy, he's like six foot, but he's like 130 pounds soaking wet. With Jacob Markstrom's gone, he's off the New Jersey to either win the Stanley Cup or miss the playoffs. I can never tell about those guys. But is this finally Dustin Wolfe's time? Yeah, I mean, it should be. And flames have cleared the path by trade. Markstrom finally. I think if Dustin Wolf can't grab a hold of this, it's going to be like, that's an indictment on Dustin Wolf because Vladar, Dan Vladar is a very solid backup. And that's about like, right, like that's his ceiling. I think, do you feel good if he's your backup? Yes. Do you feel good if he needs to be anything more than that? Probably not. So they are counting on Dustin Wolf to take that

step. I love his game. His skating is unbelievable. Like people look at like the skating of the skate. Kail McCar, whatever. To me, Dustin Wolf is that for goalies. The way he skates, he moves in ways that you don't see goalies move. His edge work is unbelievable. Here's the problem I have with Dustin Wolf. And I think a lot of him, but if I'm looking for the pessimistic side, I would watch a Dustin Wolf game last year.

He'd be amazing the entire game. I think he's doing everything right. And at the end of the game, I'm like, wow, he played a great game. And he gave up six goals. That's not great. And that's the concerns. Like he wasn't a high draft pick. I think he was sixth or seventh round.

He was not a top rounder. Yeah, seventh rounder. And the reason is further proof that nobody knows what they're talking about when it comes to goalies. Well, it's he wasn't big. He's not big enough. Scouts look at him and they're like, I don't think this guy. I mean, he's, he has been elite at every level he's ever played. He's never played in a hockey league that he wasn't amazing in.

But the size scares people in the NHL. And to me, if he can do everything right and the puck still goes in the next. net, that's a little bit concerning that maybe the size is an issue. We'll see. It's a very limited sample size. I want to, he reminds me. I wanted to bring up Auntie Ranta, who announced that he's leaving the NHL. He's 30, you know, he's going to finish his career in Finland.

And Aji Ranta, my single favorite person I've ever covered, like just the greatest guy in the world. And I loved watching him play, but the same thing. He was about the same size as Dustin Wolf, kind of a little guy. He got injured a little too much. And he just wasn't big enough. And I feel like coaches are so married to the giant goalie now that if you, you're not six five.

They don't think you can play in the NHL. Like how hard is it to like those, I guess it's a game of inches and these pucks are getting past your skate by an inch. And if you were an inch taller, you would have stopped it. How is it that much more difficult to be an NHL goalie if you're six foot versus six three? Well, I think you have to be able to play a little bit differently. You can't just like so many goalies.

It's the moment the puck is fired dropping the butterfly, right? Like you're going to your knees. And whether it's a high shot, low shot, doesn't matter. I am dropping to my knees on every puck fired at the net. And I think the smaller goalies have to hold their edges a little longer. You see it with UC Soros. He's unbelievable at it. Alexander Georgiev in Colorado, not quite as small. I think he's like 6-1, 170 pounds. Small for goalies. Like in comparison to other goalies. Georgiev does it. I think Dustin Wolf's going to have to be able to do something similar.

But like you mentioned, coaches are married to these huge goalies. But if a little goalie shows he's awesome. They pretty much give that. Like UC Soros, there's not a coach in the league that doesn't want UCSarros. So if Wolf can prove it, they'll change their mind instantly. They just won't believe in you until you show it on the ice. Like they're just going to, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. And then as soon as it works, all right, this guy is great. I want him. Like nobody's going to not want UC Soros. There's plenty of Mark Andre Fleury is not the biggest guy. No coaches had a problem playing that guy. I think he's going to have to prove it. But there is some some concern, but yeah, it's going to be fun to watch.

I think Wolf has deserved this, this promotion for a while. He has been destroying the HL. He probably spent a little too much time in the HL for my liking, but he's proven everything he can prove. You've got to let him try to do it in the NHL. So I'm glad they moved on from Mark Strum and are going to give him the chance to prove that he could do it. Wasn't it Charles Wong, the owner of the Islanders, who just wanted to put a sumo

wrestler in goal like every seven-year-old is thought of in the history of hockey? Like, why don't they just put a sumo wrestler in goal? and he was actually trying to get the islanders to consider hiring like just like a 450 pound dude to just stick there and that. If you had a guy like that who just had these guys can pick a corner so easily, I feel like they would still score a lot of goals

on a 40050 pound goal. The shooting, yeah, I mean, if there's any If there's like a quarter of an inch, they're going to slip a puck in there, you know? Like easily, like these shooters are unbelievable. And that's like the, well, it's the whole thing with the reverse VH and the shot off the back of the head. These guys can do that in their sleep now.

Right. It's easy for them. Yeah. And that's why. like the goalie coaches are so frustrated like when they go it's like you realize that if you give him that chance it's not like it was a lot people are like oh lucky goal he hit it off the back of his helmet all the time not lucky if you gave him that shot 20 times he's making it like 19 of them these shooters let's not forget like i always harp on this like the very worst player in the nchel is still one of

the very best players in the world like almost every fourth liner can make that shot in the nchel and nowadays the eight eighties anymore right and nowadays the fourth liners aren't the goons that like literally can't shoot very well because they're out there to beat the crew crap out of someone. No, they're like, the fourth line is now like the 19 year old winger who just got brought up and like he's like he doesn't play defense, but he can snipe you all, all day. So yeah, it's, the shooters are unreal. Yeah, there's, there's part of me that misses when the Islanders were just like a joke all the time. You had as much misery as they caused me as a kid. There was something charming about how ridiculous they were as a franchise.

All right, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we have four more teams to get to, and we're going to be starting in Detroit where they have 787 goals. All right, we're going to move on to Detroit in our goalie camp battles, uh, look ahead here. And, uh, man, the Red Wings have more NHL goalies than some teams have like NHL centers. You got Vili Huso, a legitimate goalie in the NHL. You've got Cam Talbot, a two-time all-star, including last season. You've got Jack Campbell, who was an all-star two years ago and is everyone's favorite person, but is on hard times. And you've got Alex Lyon who basically got the Florida Panthers into the playoffs two years ago. They have four legitimate options at goalie. How is this going to

play out. Yeah, it's, to me, this is the most interesting one because you've got four guys. And like, Jack Campbell, everyone assumes a HL bound just because he was waived last year. But Jack Campbell doesn't assume that. He thinks he's going to come in here. Like, he is a talented goalie with whether and he's dying a redemption story here, right? He's the butt of jokes because of how bad it went in Edmonton. But no one can deny. Like, if you've watched Jack Campbell play goal, like, he's a very good goalie. He could come in here with a good camp and try to establish himself as one of the two. And Izerman carried three last year. Detroit carried three goalies for most of last year because they didn't want to wave them.

I saw Iserman say this year, we don't want to carry three. We want to carry two. He might be forced into carrying three. We'll see. But it is fascinating to have four guys with legitimate NHL experience. Cam Talbot is obviously going to be one of the two. They brought him in this offseason. To me, Vile Huso, he's the one that should be the one we're watching in camp.

Because to me, Huso has the highest ceiling. He obviously has the highest cap hit. They gave him that contract a couple years ago. he makes four million. He makes considerable amount more than any of the other goalies there. They want him to be the guy. To me, in terms of which of these goalies has the highest ceiling that can help Detroit take that step to make the playoffs, I think whoso is the guy. I think Talbot can, he's a stabilizing force who you know what you're going to get. It's not going to be a complete disaster because Talbot can step in and be the veteran and do what he's done for a

decade in the NHL. But the ideal situation for Detroit is that who, Huso can stay healthy because that's been the biggest problem. He only played 18 games last year or started 18 games because he was banged up. He had multiple lower body injuries. And it seemed like every time he would be almost back from it, he would have another setback and just couldn't get back on the ice. So if Huso can stay healthy and play at the level we saw him play at in St. Louis. I mean, he was taking Jordan Bittington's job before he ended up moving over to Detroit. So to me, I want to see, can Huso for one be healthy? They're saying he's healthy for now. We'll see how long that lasts. It hasn't last. It hasn't last. lasted long in the past. If he can stay healthy and play at the top of his game, Detroit looks like a team that can make the playoffs. If he can't, now of a sudden you're leaning on Cam Talbot, who I thought Talbot was good last year, but the Kings, we've talked a lot about how the team in front of you impacts goalie stats. The Kings make life easy on their goalies. They play that one three one trap. It gives up incredibly predictable shots against. And to me, a smart veteran goalie like Talbot was able to take advantage of that and put up big numbers. That's not going to be the case

in Detroit. They don't play as good defensively as L.A. So I don't expect Talbot to replicate what he did last year with L.A., but I think he can be a stabilizing veteran guy who you can count on. He's not going to win you games, but he's probably not going to lose you games either. So fascinating camp in Detroit. And like Lyon and Campbell are, we kind of don't think of them as the starters, but I'm sure they are going in with every intention to prove that they can be the guy. Are you sure about Vili, who's so? He was healthy not this past season, but the season before that. And he was terrible. He was.

He's been in the 890s, both the last years. He had minus 13 goals saved above expected that is when he was healthy in Detroit. I know that Detroit team wasn't all that great, but whoso has not been good. He has not lived up to that contract in any way. It's another case of like in St. Louis, he wasn't the guy. And then you get paid the contract and you have to be the guy and can you handle it? And so the question is, and he couldn't handle it.

He didn't handle it well. So the question is, is he just not good enough? or has he learned over the last two years? And can he, and I think Cam Talbot being there helps him in terms of, you know that it's going to be a tandem, you know you're not going to have to play 60 games, you aren't the savior. I think, I was talking with a goalie coach the other day,

and I think the you are the savior mentality is very, very difficult for goalies to deal with. Sergei Bobrovsky, best goalie of this generation, dealt with it. He had to go to Florida. Sorry, he went to Florida, got paid all that money. And when he got to Florida, they weren't a very good team. And they looked at him as, we paid you $10 million a year, save us. Yeah. And he couldn't.

And it was a disaster. And we all joked about how bad the contract. It's the worst contract in the league. We said, then Florida got good. And suddenly Babavrovsky didn't have to be the savior. And they go to back-to-back cups and they win one. And he's amazing. You see it.

And like, that's what Olmark's going to be facing in Ottawa this year. Can he be the savior? Because that's what they're counting on him to do. I think Vile Huso, this is a $4 million deal. It's not like he, it's not the same level as Bobrovsky, but it was the Red Wings, hitching their wagon to him and saying,

you're our guy, be the starter. And he didn't handle it well. So I agree with you. There's plenty of reason for skepticism with Huso. I don't think this is by any means a strong goalie room. But I think he has the best chance to be a good goalie, like a top half goalie of these, of this group.

It's not a good goalie room, but it's a crowded goalie room. I'm curious, a lot of times these camp decisions come down to business. Like, who do you think you can sneak through waivers on that last day of training camp when everyone? So if there are injuries at goal around the league, you know, Alex Lyon might not make it through waivers. Even Jack Campbell might not make it through waivers. So you might, that might become a trade piece at that point too, because, you know, I don't

know who else is in the Detroit system. If they've got a young, they got a young goalie coming up, don't they COSA? Yes. Sebastian COSA, yeah, one of the best. Is he going to be in the HL this year? Yes. So they don't want two NHL goalies down in Grand Rapids also, right? They have to get rid of one of these goalies almost. It seems like it.

Yeah. I mean, like we've seen it like great example here in Vegas. Aden Hill, the sharks had three goalies that year. And Aiden Hill was the third goalie and they didn't want to waive him. So they traded him to Vegas for basically nothing. Yeah, you got like a six or seventh round pick. It's better than losing them for nothing. Right.

And Aiden Hill went on to almost win the Con Smyth. Because bullies aren't real. I keep telling me. So Alex Lyon for Con Smyth, If you can get the, if you can get the out of there, I'm sure you can get good odds on it. That's going to happen. Someone's going to suffer an injury during a preseason game. They're going to claim Alex line off waivers or send a seventh round pick for him.

And he's going to play 65 games with like a 1.99, say, percent of goals against average this year. All right, you mentioned San Jose. Let's go up to San Jose. You are president and treasurer and secretary of the Yaroslaviscaro fan club. It's already a transition year in San Jose. You got Celebrini, Will Smith. they're all making their debuts, why not just throw the kid in there, right? Yeah, I think this is a perfect situation.

The more I think about this and the more people I talk to, I love this situation for Ascarov because of one person, the director of goaltending in San Jose, Evgeny Nabokov, Russian legend. I guarantee Ascarov had a poster of Nabokov. He for sure has looked up to this man his entire life. All of a sudden, now he is basically controlled. Like he is in charge of your career.

And there were reports out of Nashville that Ascarov wasn't going to report to the HL and he wanted to be in the NHL this year. And he, so that leads you to believe, well, he's for sure going to be in San Jose. They're not going to send to the HL. I'm not so sure. I think if if getting to Bokhov tells him, the best thing for your development is to play another year is to start in the HL and he'll do it. Like, you know what I mean?

I think I think Escarov is going to be a little more deferential maybe. Yes, to what Nabokov has to say. now he may start him in the in the NHL I just don't know if you want to put this kid out there behind this bad defense like they might get Arbit soda bloomed yeah yes exactly right exactly right so the question is do you want and and it's going to be come down to how does he look in camp right like if if if if a Scaroff comes into camp and is better than McKenzie Blackwood and better than VTec VT-Vanech and it's like he's nobody can score on him well we're going to play him there's some bleak options if you're in San Jose right now

Mackenzie Blackwood's a super interesting one to me because his numbers are awful and they have been his whole career. He passes the eye test. He is a physical freak. The dude is he's a monster in terms of how big he is. He is shredded. He is shredded. You look at the human being and you're like, this guy's got to be the best goal in the NHL, except for he has an 880 safe percentage of this end of the year. Minor detail. Last year, I almost wrote it in my piece on this kind of subject that came out this morning, but I ended up not writing it. But I think last year might have been the most impressive sub-900 save percentage season have ever seen out of a goalie for McKenzie Blackwood because that Sharks team was so bad.

And he finished like 13th in goals saved above expect, like an insane number underlying metrics. Again, the save percentage is terrible, but he saved a ton of goals above expected last year. I think if I was Nabokov, I might let McKenzie Blackwood try to be Superman again and like save this team and ease Ascarov into the situation. But that's why I have this as the camp battle that's interesting to watch because like I said, if Ascarov comes in there and nobody can score on him and he's amazing, well, this is the year of transition. We're playing all these young forwards.

Let's play the young goalie and see what he can do. So it's going to come down to what he looks like and what Nabokov's plan is for Ascarov. but I'm fascinated by what they're going to do there. It really is tough for these rebuilds. The sharks are going to be horrendous this year. Like they're going to still be really bad. They're exactly where Chicago was last year when Bidar came in. They had a bunch of kids up there and they just said, you know what?

Go out and play. And there's like, it's a blessing and a curse because there's no pressure to win. There's no like there's no weight on your shoulders. Just go out and learn to play. Like, you know, I think back to when Patrick Hayne and Jonathan Tays were rookies and coach Dennis Savard just basically put them on the line with Patrick Sharps said, go score a bunch of goals. We'll worry about the rest of it later.

Like learn how to score in this league without. pressure. And there's something to be said for that. But at the same time, when you're on a team that's going to lose like 50 games, like that, you start developing bad habits. You start developing a losing culture in the room. It's really hard to like to stem that tide. And that's what Nick Felino was adamant at the end of last season in Chicago saying, we can't do this again. We need to go get some people that can actually play. And, you know, Kyle Davidson listened and got a whole bunch of veterans to make this team more competent around Connor Bedard so that he doesn't fall into losing habits. So you got to be careful with guys like Celebrini and Smith and Ascarov.

You want them to play without the pressure and to just learn to be in the NHL, but you also don't want them to learn that losing's okay. That, you know, this is normal to be this bad and to have bad habits. Like, it's a fine line. You got to walk for these rebuilding teams. It's a great point. And I think like no position takes losses, more blame in the losses and takes them harder than the goalie. Like the forwards were out there for all those goals given up. But you were the guy like having to dig the puck out of the net and ever and like you're you have the win loss record next to your name on on nchl.com like the wins and losses are they get more praise than they should especially from guys like me they get more blame than they should not from guys like me um but do you want a scar off

to lose 50 times this year he won't be in there for all of him but yeah it's it is a question and it's and it's like i said i am glad that he has nebakov there to to whether he's winning or losing whether he's going to the hl he's going to trust the plan i think And that's big. So I'm fascinated to see what they do. I think the better decision is probably to ease him in. And I think he should play in the NHL this year some, but maybe not be the number one guy.

Let McKenzie Blackwood do that again. But yeah, it's interesting. And I can't wait to see what he looks like in preseason and a shark's uni. Mackenzie Blackwood, the human shield. All right, we're going to take another quick break. And when we come back, we're going to go to a little small town, small market team in Canada, known as the Toronto Maple Leafs. Toronto Maple Leafs, have you heard of them?

They had a pretty wild year in goal for the Leafs last year. Just the most crazy mood swings and momentum changes. And this guy's the greatest goalie that ever lived. And then he's awful. And then this guy's the greatest goal he ever lived. And then we hate him. And, you know, typical Toronto year. Joseph Wall, he had two pretty spectacular playoff games.

Is that enough to earn him the job here? What are we doing? Yeah. So this offseason, they bring in Anthony Stolars. Big boy. Big boy. Yeah. He is a monster.

But it's super interesting to me because on one hand, WAL is the incumbent. He was the starter. He played great in the playoffs. They move on from Ilya Samsonov. It's clear that Wall is the guy. And they didn't go out and sign someone who is a starter, has been a starter. They signed a backup. But they signed a backup who has been the best backup in the league for several years.

He is very consistent. He hasn't had to have much workload. He's been playing behind workhorses like he was, behind John Gibson in Anaheim and Gibson plays all the games. Then he goes to Florida where Sergey Bobrovsky plays all the games. Suddenly now, Stolars is in a situation for the first time in his career, really. Early on, when he was first breaking in, he had some. But since he's been established, this is the first time he's ever had an opportunity

where if you're good enough, you can be the guy. Like in Florida, it didn't matter how, like last year, his numbers were as you, you mentioned Hellebuck and Brasua in Winnipeg. It was the same thing in Florida. The argument against Sergei Bobrovsky for Vezina last year was Anthony Stolars literally has better numbers, like in a smaller sample size, but his numbers are better. He was very good. He was never going to take the job from Barbarowski.

There was nothing he could do in Toronto suddenly. That's no longer the case. Joseph Wall is the guy, but he is not so entrenched that if Stolars comes into camp and nobody can score on him, and he's this giant six foot seven, 240-pound guy. And the coaches are just like watching this monster in net and nobody can score him. he can absolutely, if not take the job, at least make this a 50-50 tandem. So I am fascinated to see what Stolars does with this opportunity. It's a big one for him.

I still expect Wall to be the opening night starter, and I think they're going to give him the benefit of the doubt. And this competition will go into the regular season, and whichever is the hot goalie is probably going to be the one that gets played. But it's going to be interesting. I think Wall has great potential. I love his patience. The games I watched, that was always what stood out to me,

is he never bites on fakes. He keeps his skates. When there's a breakaway, you never see him drop down and get the deak around the pads low. I think he holds his edge as well. He's very patient. He thinks the game well. And from everyone I talk to, the kid is a grinder off the eyes. Like, you have to tell him to stop practicing because he's just one of those guys,

which is great. And I think he's very calm. He's not like, like, Scaroff, we just talked about. Guy's a wild man. He's like, he's, the emotional roller coaster is going to be crazy. Joseph Wall is not that, and I think that's the perfect personality to be the goalie in Toronto. You look at Ilya Samsonov, who's now here in Vegas, very emotional goalie, plays with emotion, plays with fire. I don't think that's a good match for being the starting goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I think you need to be calm and level-headed and not ride that roller coaster. And I think Joseph Wall has the right traits personality-wise to be in that position if he can execute in terms of just the hockey stuff. Yeah, you know, I always laugh when like, you know, reporters in New York talk to a player, how are you going to be able to handle the big lights of being in the big city? And it's like the Rangers of the 7th most popular sports team in New York and, you know, Chicago, same thing. It's like, how are you going to handle the big city? And like, there's literally only one market where that stuff matters in the entire NHL.

Vancouver only market. Vancouver, well, Vancouver is just, it's just crazy in Vancouver. It's, I love it. I agree. They're all just lunatics out there in Vancouver. It's the best. But Toronto is the really one where there's like that real pressure, that real spotlight where it's just a little different.

And so, yeah, for a goalie, I got to imagine that's even harder than it is anywhere else. I'm with you on Stolar's. Like, I've seen enough NHL head coaches turn into, you know, Jim Carrey from the mask with his eyes bulging out and his tongue coming out. He's turned into a wolf when they see a six foot seven goalie. Like they just, they convinced themselves that this will leave me to the promised land that they just get, they get addicted to. I saw Joel Quenville with Scott Darling because Scott Darling was six foot five or whatever

he was. Like every coach is prone to that. And if Stolar's has like one good game, they're going to fall for him. There's going to be all about it. He's so big. He's just so big. He takes up so much of the net. He looks so calm in there.

It's going to be fascinating to watch that one. Last team we want to go to is the Washington Capitals, the last team to make the playoffs last year. And I love that you had this little tidbit that they're, they got two lefties. They got two lefties. This lefty goalies. You don't think about that. There's two lefties and goal in Washington. Yeah.

they both catch with their right hand. And I have the stat in the story. I think it's 8 of 98 or 6 of 98. It is an incredibly small percentage of goal. Like you look at left and right handed skaters. And it's it's not 50, 50, but it's like,

it's not super rare to have one or the other. But with goalie, were you there when we had this discussion over dinner. We were all in New York about we, and there's two hockey players on there talking about like, well, I'm asking, I'm like,

why is everyone a lefty in the NHL when like 10% of the population of the world is left handed? And like someone said, it's because you want, your dominant hand on the top of your stick. Yep. And the other guys are like, no, you want your dominant hand to the bottom. It almost came to blows. Like, why are goalies all righties? And it's Canadian versus American thing, right? Like, I think most Canadians are taught you want your dominant hand

on the right. And that's why there's so many left-handed shot from people who write with their right hand. And then in the U.S., it's a little more you want your dominant hand on the bottom. But with goalies, it's just most people that catch with their right are legitimately left-handed. And left-handed people are rare. So it's going to, it's going to be. be a lot more rare. And I think it's also baseball, right? Like baseball, you're right-handed. You catch with your left. So goalies catch with their left. The right-handed. So, so, yeah, super rare that they've got two Southpaw guys. I don't know, like, if that has any impact at all on anything in the world. I just think it was. Do you, like, do you design your, your, your penalty

kill differently? Do you design your defense's own scheme to, to, to better, like, there's got to be, there's got to be some issues there about. That is a great question. Shooters like to, You and I need to write a story about this. I think we should. So shooters like to go glove more than they like to go blocker. Like that just that I don't have the data to back that up, but I'm telling you, that's a fact. I'm just,

I'm making it up here. Every goalie in the history of hockey has had a weak glove hand according to somebody. So, so do shooters have to adjust to that? Yes, I think so. I wonder if Washington having the same thing every, like Vegas last year, Aiden Hill and Logan Thompson, one catches left, one catches right. Every game you're playing. And so you've got to kind of adjust to that guy.

I wonder if Washington having two all of a sudden makes it maybe easier because you know you're facing. Yeah. When you're in baseball and you have a lefty pitcher up there, you adjust your infield and your outfield accordingly, right? And I wonder if the capitals have to do the same thing. And if they can because they don't have to switch back and forth, if they can just design a system that better supports a left-ended goalie. This sounds like a story. It does, man. Let's get on it.

So, and that's not where the comparisons in. I think it's fascinating that these two guys are very simple, not only that they're both. weirdos and are full right. But the fact that they're both undrafted goalies who, have we named them yet? It's Charlie Lindgren and Logan Thompson, by the way. I'm not sure. Yeah. Charlie Lindgren and Logan Thompson, they're both undrafted. They're both not quite as sound technically. They're, what's the word I'm looking for? They're odd. The way they play is not typical. They are they are atypical. And they have had to fight to get to this position and prove a million people wrong to get to this spot. And they've both done it and they both think that they should be

the guy. And it's going to be fascinating to me to see who it. It's probably going to end up being close to a 50-50 split. So maybe who has the better camp doesn't matter all that much because this competition is going to go into the regular season. But I do think that if you told me like what what starting job, what number one job in the NHL is the most up for grabs? I think this is the one. I think Logan Thompson and Charlie Lindgren both have a shot at being the guy here. Lindgren obviously was phenomenal for the capitals last year to the point where Darcy Kemper with his big contract, they just sat him down and played Lindgren the whole season and then ended up trading Kemper for almost nothing to L.A.

So I think they probably see him as the starting guy. Just you have to pick one of them to start. But I think Logan Thompson, they went out and traded for him. He was an all-star two years ago. He was very good in Vegas. I think they both have a shot at being the number one. Yeah, Lindgren got a heart vote last year. He got a Vezna vote and a heart vote last year.

Like he was one of the reasons the capital is even backed into the playoffs there. So, I mean, this is, you know, you acquire Logan Thompson, who I think is a higher profile than Charlie Lindgren. I think everyone assumes that Thompson's there to take his job. But I don't think this is this, this, this, this smacks of 41, 41, ideally it to me. Yep. Yep. And if you told me, I have to pick one and like say they make the playoffs and you got to pick a one. I think Charlie Lindgren's the like, I think he is the, the favored guy over Logan Thompson to start.

because he had such a great year last year. It's funny. Those two, it doesn't look great when they're good. Like Logan Thompson is just all over the place. He's super low. He has a real low crouching stance. His feet are wide. I like that.

Jonathan Quick style. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see that comparison. And it just, again, it just like goalie coaches look at that. They're like, oh my God, he's doing this wrong. He's doing this wrong. And he made his spectacular save. So he did nothing wrong.

It was all right. And Lindgren is kind of the same way. Like does things a little differently than maybe, Guys are coached to do it, but gets the job done and it's got the job done at every level. So it's going to be fun to see what they do. All right. Well, there's our look at the goalie battles across the NHL. Thanks for listening to The Athletic Hockey Show.

Please leave us a five-star rating and review if you're enjoying it. And if you're a Spotify listener, you can leave comments now on our episodes. The new athletic hockey show season begins on Monday with me and Max Boltman, along with Chris John John John McIndoo. Frankie Carrado returns on Wednesday with Sean Gentile and Sean McIndoo. and Haley, Salvean, and Gentilly have the Athletic Hockey Show on Thursdays. And until next time, I'm Mark Lazarus, and that's Jesse Granger.