The Athletic Hockey Show - 8 overreactions from NHL opening week

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

We’re just about a week into the 2025-26 NHL season and there’s really no better time to overreact to what we’ve seen so far, which is exactly what the guys do on today’s episode. Matt Boldy��s a Hart candidate. The Bruins rebuild is complete. McDavid messed up staying with the Oilers. Plus, Todd McLellan’s pointed message to his Red Wings and Frank Nazar piling up points early on for the Blackhawks.Hosts: Max Bultman and Mark LazerusWith: Rob RossiExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Chris FlanneryWatch full episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshowJoin our Discord Server: https://discord.gg/VTm9VjkFSubscribe to The Athletic: https://theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hey, everybody, Max Boltman here alongside Mark Lazarus for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show. We are through week one of this NHL season. Rob Rossi is going to join us pretty soon. We're going to go through some overreactions. But Mark, first off, after a few days of hockey, anything you're itching to overreact to? You know, the first thing I thought of was your own backyard there in Detroit. It's not a team that we necessarily talk all that much about because they're never relevant anymore.

haven't been in over a decade, it feels like. But after game one, Todd McClellan's out there basically calling out his team, which, you know, not a thing we usually hear during the Eiser plan, which, you know, seems to have the longest leash in the history of leashes. So tell me, you know, I know they beat, they come back and they beat Toronto after that, but are things getting already a little dicey in Detroit? I don't think it was about diciness, but I think it was about urgency. So here's the context of people who didn't see this, right?

So the Red Wings go out and they play Montreal. They take a quick one-o lead. It's their first night of their centennial season. The crowds into it. Dylan Larkin scores this opening goal and does this huge celebration. You're like, all right, they're getting ready to roll. They give up like three odd man rushes and go down three one by the end of the first. And I don't want to say they completely turtled, but it completely changed how they were playing the game, right?

And they take a five one loss on opening night after all that had gone right. So we go into the press room. Someone asked McClellan, you know, basically what he thought. And here's what he said. fundamental hockey, hockey that you'd play, Bantam, midget, I don't even know if they call the leagues that anymore, Junior, you know, American League Pro, you don't give up two-on-ones. If a D's down a forward covers, you manage the puck, you don't turn it over. I thought we got off to a good start, the start we wanted. But our game management, you're going to hear that all year for me, because clearly it's still a huge. issue. We just played the game. We didn't play to win the game. And we're not, we have no

chance. You know, and the players will say, they probably have already said to you that, you know what, we can fix this, we can win. It's time. Some of them have been doing it for years. It's time. We just spent three weeks, three and a half weeks at training camp dealing with these situations. Now if it happened once or twice in a game, it'd be okay, but there was seven, maybe six or seven outnumbered rushes at the end of the first period from the 10 minute mark on. And it's unacceptable. We'll have to drill it back into them. All right. So I don't recall seeing Todd McClellan and Dylan Larkin's own locker room scrub in that game, but five minutes earlier in the locker room. Larkin had said basically exactly that.

Like it was disappointing. We'll get it fixed, right? I believe in the guys in this room. And I think that's the stand that's exactly what I expected to hear. I think that's what 90% of NHL players are going to say on night one. And that is what made it so interesting to me is that whether McClellan actually did just anticipate that that was going to be the talking point. If he, you know, got the rundown from a PR person of this is what was said and he wanted to nip that in the bud. What I heard from that was urgency from him. Like, no, yes, it is fixable, but we are not going to wait around and fix this. And I thought that was interesting for a couple of reasons. We're doing an overreactions theme today, right?

And I don't think this was an overreaction. But what I do think what it was is him kind of sending a message to his own team through the press. And he talked to him separately as well. This was not something he just did at a press conference and then didn't say to his own team in the locker room. But I think the idea is this Red Wings group has heard for years, both from the outside and even like when Steve Eiserman talks, the general manager of the team, there's a lot about, you know, yeah, it's a process. It's going to take time. I don't have a timeline. And I wonder what impact that has on players.

I'm sure there's frustration in some ways. I'm sure there's understanding in some ways. But I also wonder if the players start to kind of believe it. Like, yeah, well, like this is the state we're in. We're to learn. I think he's telling him no. It's enough of that. It's time to go out and execute and do it.

And I don't think Dylan Larkin was at fault for this. I don't think he's mad at Dylan Larkin. But I think he's kind of calling out his team and saying, don't be content with that. Yeah, no, I like that McLean did that because, you know, we both cover teams that have not made the playoffs. in a long time. I'm in Chicago, you're in Detroit, two marquee franchises that are going nowhere lately. And you hear this a lot, you know, and even Jeff Blaschell, a former wings coach, and now current Hawks coach, he keeps saying, you know, we don't believe in moral victories, but we do believe in process, which essentially is we believe in moral victories, right?

And you hear Nick Folino for three years now, we're on a third season of this saying, like, I like a lot of the things we did, but we got to do better this, we got to clean this up, we're a better team than this. It's all the things you hear when you're a losing team. winning teams don't say we're better than this. They know they don't have to convince themselves by convincing you that they're better than this. And Chicago's in a different position than Detroit is obviously right now, but Detroit's been in this spot for a long, long time.

And what I heard Adam McClellan was urgency, not just for the team, but for himself, right? Because he doesn't have the leash that Steve Eiserman has. He knows that coach's jobs are fleeting. I'm not saying he feels like he's on the hot seat. But if it doesn't get better, if they do miss the playoffs this year, then he's probably looking for another job again.

Detroit is in a situation where they've got to do it now, and I think most of us don't believe they can. I don't think McClellan's at risk of losing, unless things go spectacular. But I do think he wants to win, and I think he believes this group is in a position. I don't think he's buying what guys like us are selling, that this team's going to be hard up to get a wild card spot, right? I think he feels like it's there, but it won't be there if they get off to a slow start last year. They got off to a slow start last year.

And that's why McClellan has this job because their start last year was so bad that Derek alone was gone at Christmas, right? Like they're not going to be content to have a slow start. They have a tough schedule to start off here. It would be very easy, right? And if they go two and four in their first six, guys like you and me are going to get on here. And we're going to say, you know, two and four, but they, you know, every team they played so far as a playoff team. And I think his point is he doesn't want them to think that way.

He doesn't want them to buy that. And so I thought they responded very well. I think his actual point was mainly about just like, you know, game management and sloppiness. And you can't have these mental lapses in a game. You've got to focus right from the jump. you're not going to be able to just kind of go through all this. They did fix that in game two, but I think more importantly,

it was a mental toughness component that, you know, they go down 02 again against Toronto. At that point in their season, they've scored a goal and then given up seven in a row. Well, they come back with a three goal, second period.

They win the game against the Leafs. We'll see how they do today. You know, sometimes it's very easy to see something like that happen and go, okay, so problem is fixed. McClellan made his speech. The players bought in.

Now, here you go, right? They got to do it again against the same team at two o'clock on Monday, right? So it's, it is, they're going to be tested again. They're going to be tested over and over. But he didn't wait to lay that down. We've talked to, I feel like I've said this before a bunch of times on this show. I'm not really a big believer that coaches can make a huge difference on what happens on the ice, except in a situation like Detroit, where you have a team that is on the cusp and hasn't been able to get over the hump.

The right coach can turn a pretty good team into a good team, can turn a mediocre team into a playoff team. That's where the red wings are right now. They've been on the cusp for a while. We know they've got talent. We know they've been on the periphery of the playoff picture now. They had a chance last year. And you feel like this is where a coach really makes his money. Is in getting a good team to be great and getting a pretty good team to be good.

And I feel like McClellan, he might be the right guy to do it in Detroit. But I think he does feel that pressure. And I think he should feel that pressure. Because if this is another year of kind of running in place for Detroit, then where are they? Then where do they go from here? Like you can't just keep running it back forever in the situation. You just become Buffalo. And that's the nightmare scenario.

And Detroit's getting kind of close to that range. Oh, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, that is a situation there. And that's why it's refreshing. It's the first time I've heard someone in a Red Wings emblem say it's time and mean it with that kind of way, right? It's not like, you know, we'll see. We hope to make the playoffs.

That's our goal. Andrew Kopp did say it's a do or die type season right off the top. So I guess that would be another one. But I thought it was a good energy to bring. So I guess we'll see where that leads. But it's funny because when I teach you up there, I thought there was a pretty good chance we were going to be talking about Art Naser over there to start off this segment. Yeah, Frank Nader, you know, all the eyes are on Connor Bedard and obviously for good reason.

And he's off to a good start. He's got a couple of goals in the first three games. But Frank Nazar, man, he looks spectacular. He closed out the season so strong last year. And then he went to the world championships. I think he had 12 points in 10 games for Team USA. Led Team USA in scoring against some pretty darn good teams out there. And he is all the confidence in the world. He's only 21 years old, number one draft pick a few years back.

He's the one they traded Kirby Doc for, essentially, to get that pick. And that looks like it's worked out beautifully because he's your number two center behind Bidad. And he's got five points in three games. He doesn't seem fluky. Like he's creating chance after chance after chance. And, you know, I said this last night on Saturday night from the Montreal game, that there's a really good chance that Frank Nazar is playing for Team USA in Milan. And, you know, a year ago, that would have been just absolutely unthinkable.

But Team USA loves him. He's performed well in a Team USA sweater. and right now he's on pace for like 120 points. So what's not to like? Well, the Blackhawks certainly are liking it. I mean, they paid this guy. They gave him the long-term deal. They locked him in at a contract that certainly I think we all knew that that deal had the

potential to be a huge steal the day it was signed. But how few games he had played at the times he had signed it, like that's a lot of trust. It's a lot of faith to be putting into a young player like that when you haven't seen it, like, you know, over a long stretch. Obviously, these, you know, three games are also not a long stretch. but it's exactly what you would want to see. Yeah, and I know, look, from a larger perspective, Chicago's got one point in these three games, right? But they were tied 2-2 with the defending champion Panthers in their home opener.

They were tied 2-2 with the undefeated Bruins in their home opener, and they were tied 2-2 at the end of the second period against Montreal, a playoff team. This team, it may not show on the scoreboard, it may not show in the standings, but this team is infinitely more watchable than they were last year. They're young, they're fast, they're competitive, they're throwing the waiter, and Connor Bredd's picking fights. Louis Crivees beaten up on guys. You got fans in Chicago Channing USA when a Canadian beats up a Canadian. I'm not sure what that's all about, but it was pretty funny. And it's just, there's a little bit of life in Chicago. I know that San Jose of the two

you know, kind of stellar dwelling teams in the league has has kind of like the vibe. Everyone's, everyone's high on what San Jose is doing. But the Blackhawks are going to be a much more difficult out this year than they were the last, God, it feels like 900 years. Well, having covered Jeff Blaschell for the time that I did, I do feel like, Frank, Nazar is very quickly going to become a player he really likes me. Blaschell, I'm sure you've heard him use the word habits three to four hundred times already in a month here, right? Like, he's a guy that really appreciates detail. He really appreciates, you know, competitiveness. And those are both things. Whenever I've watched Frank Nazar, I don't think this is a guy who's going to

cheat the game to get his points. He's going to play with a high motor. And I think over time, he's going to be a player that you can trust in a lot of situations. So it's great to see him get off to a good start. Yeah, I mean, he's just blindingly fast. He's on the penalty kill. You know, he's already at his age going out there. And he's not just trying to kill penalties. He's trying to score shorthanded goals, which you love to see. That's something that Blaschel has been really harping on this year is having more of an aggressive penalty kill.

And that's going to lead to some problems. It's a young team with a very young defense. And they're going to have a lot of bad mistakes out there. But they seem to be in a position this year where they're like, all right, let's let the kids make the mistakes. You know, I know Arlem-Levanov, the number two pick overall last year got benched for the Montreal game. I don't think it's like a big, huge, scary message to send. I think that Blashel is going to be, you know, giving them all the

opportunity and all the leash that he can. But it's good to see that the Blackhawks now are leaning a little bit less on the veterans and a little bit more on the young guys. And it's funny, we've been talking about who's going to be Connor Bredars linemates forever. They went out and got Tyler Burtuzi and Tavot-Oterra Vinen, ostensibly to become Baderd's long-term linemates. And well, they're Frank Nazars now and they're not going anywhere. Yeah. All right, well, let's take a quick break right there. That's what's going on in our neck of the woods. We'll come back with Rob Rossi and we'll do some league-wide overreactions right after the break. All right, we are back and we are joined now by Rob Rossi, who is going to, he's kindly agreed to overreact with us to a few things or tell us that we're stupid for our overreaction.

So the first one here that I'm going to tee up and I'll send it to you first, Rob. Are the Boston Bruins going the Washington Capitals rebuild route and doing this thing on a speed run and right back in the mix already here? No, you're stupid. Look, I think what we forget about the capitals last year. And I guess this year to a larger extent is the gift they were given about two of their core members giving them the cap relief that they could add guys that were replacement level. And if you look at the totality of who they added, probably made them a better fit for their coaches system. Despite Boston looking impressive in this first week, I don't see the longevity there that I thought we could maybe. expect from the capitals once after the first month because the capitals, if you looked at

their depth last year, I don't think that's depth that Boston can approximate. Now, I think Boston's probably better in goal, but I also think we have to work in for the fact for the Bruins that, you know, we still don't know how this new coaching staff is going to mesh with these guys when we start dealing with injuries and things like that. Now, I look at the Bruins and, you know, There's a couple of things that already feel unsustainable. They're 12 for 12 on the penalty kill. That's obviously not going to continue. They've got nine different goal scores through three games.

That kind of scoring depth is probably not going to continue. And they've got, I think it's Tampa, Vegas, Colorado, and I want to say Florida coming up real soon. So we'll have a much better idea of what they are in about a week and a half. But it really comes down to Jeremy Swimming, right? It was one of the reasons they fell so hard last year was Jeremy Swamen in the first year of that contract that he fought so hard for, completely face planted. He had like an 892 save percentage, something like that. Well, he's at 966 through two games. He's not that, and he's probably not what he was last year.

But if he's somewhere in between, if he's the Jeremy Swamen that Boston thought they were getting when they signed him to that deal, when they let Linus Olmark leave, then this team's at least going to be competitive. I don't think it's a playoff team in the East by any stretch. But they could be a lot more competitive and not so much in the Gavin McKenna Derby. Well, and let's be clear, too. The question is, can they sort of be the Capitals? The Capitals ended up with the second best team, second best record in hockey last year.

So I don't think the Bruins can do that. What about the two years ago, Capitals, right? They squeak it on the wild card with 91 points. Right, right, exactly. But what I'm saying is, is I think the Bruins could be competitive in the East for a playoff spot if only because the Metro has to provide three teams, but the Metro is such an abomination that I can't see a fourth team coming from that. I think, you know, Laz, all the things you said about why they could regress, like,

that's true for why they're not going to go 82 and O for sure. But I'm not asking them to go 82 and O, right? Those things are the reasons they're 3 and O. But let's say a couple of those things go different. They might still be 2 in 1 here, right? And so I are 2 in 1 maybe even, right? So I'm buying a little bit that the Bruins are better than maybe we've given them credit for, if only because I think for the reasons you guys said,

they had a lot of pieces already in place that we've known are good that just weren't a part of that team last year for a various number of reasons. Injuries, you know, with, I mean, Swimming was part of the team, but he wasn't himself. You had the injuries to Lindholm and McAvoy. I'm still pretty nervous about the center position and where all the goals are going to come from outside of David Posternak. But I am much more willing to kind of lump them into that very real wildcard derby than I was six days ago.

Maybe that's very stupid, but that's the point of this show. All right. Well, I want to go to my, to our second overreaction here. I want to come back to the Western Conference here. Now, we did our staff bold predictions, which they, you know, we are encouraged to really put ourselves out there for those, right? Like, I think I do Dallas. I think I had Thomas Harley as a Norris finalist, which I can totally see, like within

the realm of possibility, but a bit of a stretch, right? So it's a lot of optimism. Well, Mike Rousseau had Matt Boldie getting 50 goals and 50 assists. This is a guy who's never scored more than, I think had 27 goals last year. He's never been a point per game guy. He looks fabulous to start the season. And he's on the line with Carilla Caprizov and Marco Rossi, and they're going to put up some points. Is Matt Boldie a contender for the Hart trophy?

So that one leapt off the page to me too when I was reading those bull predictions. Was it Mike or was it Joe? It was one of our wild guys for sure. I thought it was Mike, but I wouldn't put it past either of them. Either way, right? Like I read it and I'm like, okay, that's taking it to another level. And then here we are through, I think it's two games and Boldie's up to six points. Like he is looking like he maybe wants to make a run at that prediction.

Maybe he read it and was like, oh, that hadn't occurred to me. Maybe I'll go do that. This guy was one of the breakout stories of last year for me, partly because of what he was at the Four Nations. He's always been a really good player, really complete player. But I think the thought has more been that he settles in as this like very steady, you know, 65 point guy who two way, maybe, you know, gets himself into that selky conversation. Certainly you love him on a playoff team and in all of those, you know, context. But I, you know, look, if he's going to score at this rate or even come close to it, then maybe he does belong in the

Art Trophy conversation at some point, which, by the way, his odds at BetMGM, if you like to sprinkle such things at this time of the year, plus 50,000. So I'm not a sports better. But if I was, I'd have a hard time. I'm not putting $5 on that, right? Yeah, he's not going to be in the Hart trophy conversation. I mean, he's just not. I mean, Rob's just not playing along with the premise. No, look, here's why. Here's why. As we know, Las, those those conversations are narrative-based, right? Like the heart, the heart is always decided by humans or at least as the closest we in the PHWA can find. And the reality is if he's having a season like Rousseau Smith predicts, most likely Caprisoff is having an even better season. And he will be the one that carries the narrative.

So even if Boldie becomes the second coming of whomever, it's going to be Caprisoff that probably is the guy we're talking about for heart. I will say this. I think that wild team, I don't know how many people are picking sort of dark horses in the West. That to me is a dark horse in the West to come out of the West in a year where I think there's a lot of potential for a team we don't see coming because they just sort of have, I don't know, they have a vibe to me about them as it like nobody's thinking about us. But if you look at our lineup, we're pretty good. If you think about it to last year, it was, Caprizov was getting that MVP love early in the season, the first couple of months, until he got hurt. I feel like it's almost better for a wild play. This might not be fair to the wild, but it might be better for their chances for it to be them sneaking into the playoffs and a player dragging them the Taylor Hall model of winning the Hart trophy.

Because if they're like the second place team in the Central and Caprizo's got 100 points, well, then Nathan McKinnon is probably going to win the MVP or Connor McDavid's going to win the MVP. be. But if they get in as the eight seed and Boldy or Caprizov as just dragging them kicking and screaming in, that's a good way to win the Hart trophy among some bigger names. So very fair point there. And I do think that the presence of Caprizov does alter how you'd view like an award voting context there, especially for the MVP. But I will say this. I talked about how earlier in his career and really up to now, I still think this. Like Selke would have been the most likely trophy I would have picked for Boldy. Unfortunately, what we know about voters is that points are also how you win the Selke trophy when you're a good defensive forward. So maybe that 50-50 season does not result in Matt

Boldie's heart trophy. Maybe it gets him the Selke. Our voting body will never give it to a winger. It's really depressing. Sam Reinhard should have won it at least the last couple of years. Marion Hoses should have won it a couple of times. Stone should have more. Boldie is not a center. Boldie is not winning the Selke. All right. Well, so what we're talking about awards, let's go to another one that I think this one maybe is even straining the bounds of what we can say a week into this. But Joey Decord had one heck of a week for Seattle. Seattle is a team that I think was probably going to finish in like the bottom five, bottom seven of the NHL. But they're off to a great start behind one heck of a start from Joey Decord. So would you buy Joey Decord at plus

6,000 Vezina odds via BetMGM? Or alternatively, would you buy that Joey Decord can And more realistically, can he get them into the playoffs? No. Next question. No, I mean, come on. That Seattle team is not making the playoffs. I agree. Even in a pretty weak Pacific division.

I watched some of that Anaheim game. They were largely outplayed, outshot, outchance at five on five in particular. Decor has been fabulous. He's got, I think, 61 saves on 63 shots. You're going to be undefeated when you do that. But it is not sustainable. That is not a very well-built, not a well-constructed team. And no, there's just,

absolutely no way that Joey Decord is bringing the Seattle Cracken into the playoffs this year. See, I look at it this way. We always, we always award the Hart trophy to somebody who gets his team into the playoffs. But if Decord wins 22 games with that team, he should be in heart, hard. Because like, the award is most valuable player to his team. And like, that Cracken team, like, you know, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, like, that's a special kind of, you know, cup of suck there. And that's, that's, yeah, I don't think he's going to be in, in the race for rewards.

But certainly he should be one of those guys where his 900 save percentage might be better than most people's 920, just because of the team he plays behind. Seriously, like, it's off topic. But wouldn't you rather be the mess that San Jose or Chicago were in than the mess is Philadelphia and Seattle are in right now. Like, those teams are better than Chicago and San Jose without any question. But there is just, there's no light at the end of the tunnel there. They are just, they're in the quicksand and they are up to their foreheads at this point.

I really like the top of Seattle's prospect cupboard. It's just that it's not probably deep enough to yield a team that's better than, you know, squeaking into a wild card in four or five years, at least as of right now. And maybe that can change. I do think they got the right GM there, though. I think one thing that Jason Botrell did really well as sort of the shadow GM in Pittsburgh, when Jim Rutherford got all the credit, was bringing along younger players to fit into that mold there that they had in Pittsburgh. And I think if Botrell has given time

there, he will establish a culture that that will be something that Seattle can build around. But yeah, they have squandered the early years of that franchise. I'm not buying it either, by the way, on Decord-Vezanau or Crack and Playoffs. But, hey, that's what the show is about. Here's a guy who I think I can sell you on for the Vezina and he's won it before. Igor Shostirkin. Yeah, I'm buying because they're terrible. I mean, they're a bad hockey team and don't let their win over Pittsburgh or Buffalo

for you. This is an old, slow team that is going to try to play a system that relies on, is based around speed and skill. Their skill is decaying. Their speed is non-existent and their defense is at times, in addition to, in addition to to being overall team-wise disinterested in it, they don't have the people to play actual defense on that team. Shestirkin, Shestirkin is going to have the best case for a Vesna trophy this year because he is the only really good player on a team that has all the hype

and all the sizzle, but none of the substance. Yeah, Rob said it a lot more mean than I would have said it, but everything he said is 100% correct there. And Igor's, you know, his track record it speaks for itself. And through his first few games has been absolutely fabulous, right? He is the reason that the Rangers are in some of these games. And he can win it. Do the Rangers need to make the playoffs for him to get it? Probably just given, I mean, right now, you know,

Decord and Swamen, as we've talked about are in the conversation. And Hellebuck's going to be in the conversation, all the, you know, Ottinger's going to be in the conversation, all the usual suspects. If the Rangers, you know, I seem to be an outlier that I don't think they're going to make the playoffs based on some of our staff predictions. But if they don't make the, can you win the Vesna if you have the most goal saved above expected, but you're in the 11th place? You should be able to. It should be like the Sye Young in baseball this year in the National League, where Paul Skeens was on a franchise bereft of anything. But he was clearly the best pitcher in the National League. I feel like if we're not talking Hart Trophy, all of those awards should be eligible to players that don't get into the playoffs.

So I've never understood why we assign that value to the other awards other than MVP. And I will say, as I'm one of those that picked the Rangers on our staff to make the playoffs. And I've had a pit in my stomach all week because it has not been the start that I think I saw a lot of jump coming from them. I was like Sullivan's going to get there. He's going to energize these guys. They're still more talent there than we're giving credit for. It's looked a whole lot just like the Rangers of last year too. So not a great start.

I'm telling you, people put too much stock into coaching. There are certain situations where the coach makes the difference, but a coach can't come in and he can't turn, you know what, into chicken salad. And I'll tell you, I know Mike Sullivan pretty well. I can see the vacant look in his eyes when he tries to talk about the Rangers and the public. It's not there. Like, he knows it. God bless him. He's earned that money.

Go try to win a gold medal man, but that's not happening this year. The Rangers are. The only saving grace they have is that also in that division are the two woeful Pennsylvania clubs. and the very bad except for Matthew Schaefer Islanders. And, like, Columbus and Washington are going to be propelled just because, like, they're not one of those teams that I mentioned, including the Rangers. That's the Pacific Division and the Metro, there's a lot of, you know, fat to fill up on, right? There's a lot of dead weight in there. There's a lot of, quote, unquote, easy, but I know there's no easy nights in the NHL.

I've heard it all before. But the other, like the Central Division has just the Blackhawks, and they're at least going to be competitive. this year and the Atlantic is deeper. But if you're in the Pacific and you're in the Metro, that's how you get a fourth team in there is by beating up on bad teams. You can, you can fill your plate that way pretty easily. And when Carolina and Vegas both set the NHL record for points in March, and then they decide they're just one of them's going to finish with the best record ever, the other's going to finish with the second best record, we're going to look back on how bad the bottom of their divisions were and see that they went like,

what, 18 and 1 against those teams? That Pacific Division talk sounded a little bit like, like Laz wanted back in on the Cracken. I'm just saying. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll be back with some more of her reactions in just a second. All right, we're back. And we closed last segment, talking about some teams that we had hoped might be taken our A team that we hoped might be taken a step. The New York Rangers, we thought might be. Here's another team that I think we keep waiting for a step to come. And boy, does it already seem like the Buffalo Sabres are trending towards cooked already, Las. Like lost by what? A combined seven to one to the Rangers in Bruins. two teams that we are not necessarily expecting all that much of.

I just, look at these guys that are signed through at least 2030 on that team. Tage Thompson, Josh Norris, Rasmus Dahlene, Owen Power, they're all there. Their only real rental is Alex Tuck. What is the way out of this? Because clearly they can't just keep trying with what they have. What is the way out of this? You can't even tear it down if you wanted to tear it down. And I'm not even a guy who likes tear down rebuilds.

I don't know what you do. The Sabres are completely cooked. It's two games in, and we all know it, and they probably know it too. They're poor fans, those poor bastards in Buffalo, I feel for you. I love that fan base. And this is going to be what, you're 15, where they're not even going to sniff the playoffs? I don't know what you do. It's sad.

Yeah, I've always said the Stanley Cup champion Buffalo Sabres has a great ring to it. The problem is you'd have to be like me and have been working on like seven concussions to hear those bells. I mean, it's, I'm, I am with Laz. I think tear downs are a bad idea because there's just no guarantee that they're going to work. Spare me the Pittsburgh model. Ask Detroit. Yeah. And like people talk about the Pittsburgh model.

Right. Because you're going to get Mark Andre Fleury, Fulry, Fannie Malkin, Sidney Crosby, and Jordan Stahl to fall one or two to you in four consecutive years. That doesn't happen. Usually you end up with Patrick Stefan, you know. So, but the problem with the Sabres is unless they win, like, the McKenna sweepstakes, there's nothing that you can inject into those guys that they have signed that's going to be able to obliterate the malaise that has set in on the whole franchise. And also, why is Lindy Ruff still a coach in this league?

Like, what do we need to see that he's not right for this league anymore? I just, they're, thank goodness their ownership now has really important things to pay attention to like the Penn State football coaching search. because the less the Pagulas are involved with decision making and the Buffalo Sabres, the better off the Sabres will be. Well, it's hard even for me to say that McKenna saves him because that seems like the kind of player that they've drafted over and over and over again, right? And so I'm not saying if Buffalo wins the lottery or whatever, they should pass on McKenna.

But I think my point is it's just going to be very hard to sell that even as a savior because all they've done is draft super high-skilled guys. And they've gotten away from it actually a little bit in recent years. And those guys are maybe going to start to it. arrive in the coming years that I think thought the trade that got them Kesslering and Josh Dohn like that helps to kind of address it right same deal with trading for Ryan McLeod a year ago. Maybe that's coming but it seems like just skill, skill, skill has been a tough way to live.

Now, I'm actually not sold that they're cooked, right? So I introduce this topic. I'm not sold that they're completely cooked other than the fact that the Atlantic Division looks pretty merciless. But when you see Josh Norris get injured right away in the first two games, right? Like, that's really tough to see. And that was a big piece they traded away to get him. When you lose Dylan Cousins, you're losing exactly the kind of guy that I'm talking about them needing more of, guys that can carry the piano, right?

Or whatever that's saying is. So I am worried about them, but I do think the talent on the team, I'm not quite ready to give up on. I mean, it's two games, right? But I'm a little more optimistic. I, what do you feel like if you're a Sabres fan? You have no hope for the present. And you're watching as two of those picks you did make, Sam Reinhart and Jack, are two of the, what, the 10 best players in the NHL right now?

Yes. And they both did it for some. Like, it's just, it's just one punch in the stomach after another for that fan base. And there's just, there's no, again, there's just, it's hopeless. There's no way out. I do agree that the fans have every right to feel like, screw this, we're not coming, we're not watching. That part is a completely valid. But they won't.

They'll keep up. There's such a great fan base. They will watch. And they'll watch other teams in the playoffs. It's always the best ratings of any American city. That's why it's like, of all the teams. in the league, that's the one you want to see succeed the most as a hockey fan because they are seeing, they are showing up. They still care, even though they've been given every reason not to.

They're the perfect avatar for Gary Bettman's NHL. They can be absolutely crapped on forever and still show up. And that's what the owners like under this commissioner. It's a very fair point. I mean, it is, every year it feels like you see those ratings, right, of the Stanley Cup finals and the highest viewership is the two cities that are in it and Buffalo, right? Like, that's the, that's the fan base that I think deserves a winner more than any other. You know, I didn't pick them preseason. I'm not saying I'm picking them now, but I am just saying, like, there's a lot of talent there. And you do feel like if they can ever have that light bulb moment, maybe it's a little more complicated than that.

You know, I don't know. I don't think they need to necessarily start a new tear down. But that's another matter, I suppose. Let's go to a place that I am curious if they will start a new tear down. And that's the New York Islanders here. they got the first overall pick last year in Matthew Schaefer. We've talked about how they seem a little caught in the middle between, you know, you have Barzell, you have Horvatt, do you try to do this on the fly?

I think it needs a little more thorough surgery than that. But Rossi, where are you at on the Islanders? I would take a scapple to a lot of what they have because I am convinced Schaefer can be a defenseman that like Kail McCar, around whom all things can revolve. He's just a spectacular talent. I don't think we're ready quite yet for what this guy's going to do. I saw him in Pittsburgh the other night. He's just, he's, I don't know that I've ever seen a defenseman skate like him.

I mean, McCar would be the closest equivalent, but like he has a McDavid-type impact in that he can go consistently at a pace that other players just can't. conceive of. His hands are dynamite. He's big. He's going to grow into that body. He's built for this already. You can tell. I would do whatever I could were I management there to get rid of these veterans so that I am surrounding him with some younger talent. Even if I'm taking flyers on guys that weren't hits for other organizations, I would get the youth around that guy and let him carry the young group forward as opposed to trying to sort of meet two masters because that just doesn't work. I do think the Islanders are a prime candidate for that kind of, the old retool, which we never really see any more in the NHL because everyone just wants to burn everything to

the ground. They've got Horvatt and Barzell locked up long term. They've got a good defensive core, but they don't have the depth. They don't have enough scoring talent out there. And now that you have Schaefer, I do feel like you can do this in a year or two. If you make the right, you know, if Matthew Darsh is the guy and he can make the right, moves and a couple of savvy trade deadline moves can, like, I don't know if, I don't think they're a playoff team this year. I think they'll be closer than people think just because that's what the islanders usually do. But I think they could be a year or two right back into it if, if they're, if it's done right. And that's the hardest thing to do. It's really easy to just sell everybody off

and put all your hopes in the draft lottery and then just have that endless patience that some of these owners have, you know, here in Chicago we've had it where, you know, Kyle Davidson's doing a good job of exactly what they wanted to be done. And there's no pressure. But it's been years, right? it's really hard to do this quickly. Boston did it when they got Charlie McAvoy and they kind of retweaked around him after Chara left and they were back in it within two or three years. I think this Islander's team couldn't be really competitive

in two or three years. There's a lot of talent there. It's just not a perfectly well-constructed roster as is. But the difference is, I don't think Horvette and Barzell are Patrice Bergeron, right? And I think when you don't have that defining kind of connective tissue there, I think the risk is that you do become, you know, caught in the middle too much and you just end up picking 11th every year for a decade and you're

surrounding Matthew Schaefer with to Rossi's point just Patrick Stefan over and over again. So I think it's a very tough one. I am obviously bullish on Matthew Schaefer. I think he's going to be a really exciting player for them. I just, I have no idea how you approach that because I think you could trade Lee, but I think that's your veteran guy that, you know, he's an expiring free agent. He's the obvious one to trade, but he's also your veteran guy that I think you want around Matthew Schaefer teaching him how to lead a team.

I will say there is something fun about Matthew Schaefer because, you know, I know Max, you're in that prospect world. You know exactly what you're getting out of this. But after a couple of years of the Bedard and Celebrini hype, it's kind of cool to be almost surprised by a guy. Like, all right, Matthew Schaefer's the guy this year. But, you know, he's not a Celebrini or Badd type. He's not a McDavid or a Crosby type.

You know, they're settling for him because, you know, I guess they got to pick the defenseman and nobody's all that excited about it. And then you watch him skate like three shifts. You're like, oh, my God. This is great. this is so exciting. Like, I did not expect to be blown away by Matthew Schaefer right off the bat. 18-year-old defensemen do not fare well in the National Hockey League.

But he's, he is going to be worth the price of admission in Elmont for a long time. And it's kind of cool to be surprised by a guy like that. Have you talked to him yet? I have not. Wait till you do. He's Crosby with a personality. Yeah, you'll be blown away all over again.

It's pretty amazing. I'm telling you, this guy is going to, he's going to be the kale McCar of the Eastern Conference and I think he will be a finalist for the Norris trophy before the end of his entry-level deal. Ooh, all right. Now that is the kind of overreaction we're looking for. He's played two games.

And by the way, we've established on this show many times. I'm not generally positive about anything. So how good must he really be? You're the guy who came out of this show the day before the four nations and went, I don't care about this stupid tournament. Nobody cares about this. All right, Rob's positivity.

I was right. Everybody else was wrong. Rob's positivity is freaking me out here. We got to get this back into a comfortable area. Let's talk about the Pittsburgh Penguins here. Because they are two in one. I think there's going to be at least a 2% temptation from some people out there to say,

oh, wow, it's Sid and Malkin. Can they turn back the clock for another playoff push here? You want to kill their dreams, Rob? Yeah, I mean, if Sidney Crosby and I'm getting Malkin for two out of every three games can look like they did when they were in their early 30s opposed to the late 30s, then yes. But then you would still have this goaltending. You would still have the worst left side of a defense that I've ever been around in my 23 years in the NHL media. They are not, look, I think they've got a really good coach. I think they've got a coach that's probably going to betray what.

should be being done there, which is tank as many points as possible. Because I think he has an innate ability to read a game and use his, what few assets he has to the advantage. But they don't have anything. They don't. And they caught the Rangers who aren't that good sleepwalking on the opening night. and then they beat the islanders who also are kind of like I guess in a world where some team has to be the third and fourth team in the metro maybe but look no it's just they're they're not a good hockey team they're going to be a hockey team that gets worse before they get better this isn't even the bottom yet in Pittsburgh anybody that's thinking this is is smoking something that is way beyond medical grade I think most of

of our listeners will tell you I don't usually do my homework on this show and it shows. But I saw a bunch of tweets about Evgeny Malkin turning back the clock. And I'm like, you know what? This sounds very familiar to me. And sure no. So I went back and I looked at last year, he's got five assists in the first two games this year. He had two goals and nine assists in the first five games last year, finished with like 40-something points.

He had four goals and four assists in the first five games two years ago. That wasn't a great season for him. this is what he does. He comes out like a house of fire, and then I feel like at his age, the grind of the seasonal wears on him and he just can't hold up the way he used to. So like, let's all, like Pittsburgh.

Like I started my career covering the penguins. I was in Pittsburgh Media and nobody falls faster for this kind of thing than Pittsburgh Media. Pittsburgh Media wants to believe. They're like the X-Files. Like they want to believe. And they fall for this time and time again. Hey, I haven't fallen for it at all.

I just told you they're living. You fall for nothing. You, you, everything is, everything is awful to you. I get that. But most, I've been out there and like, you know, this is the year that Tommy Maddox is going to lead the Steelers to the Super Bowl. Like I've seen it a thousand times. This ain't the Malkin of 10, 15 years ago, guys.

And this ain't the penguins of even three years ago. This is not a playoff team. And they're not, they're not trying to be. Like, I mean, people got to realize, Cal Duba isn't sitting, well, he's actually no longer sitting in the press box. He's moved the seat to the sweet levels. So, but, um, uh, wherever he's watching the game, James from like he's not there like being like oh great job guys you got four out of the first six

points like that is bad for Pittsburgh the whole idea should be to anger the hockey world and try to get McKenna not getting McKenna no matter what it's been 20 years well that's probably true too we all know that true too that frozen ping pong ball is popping up yeah but they they may get McKenna like they got Crosby and Lemieux they may also be lucky and horrid so um it's they're a bad hockey team they're going to be one of the three worst teams in the league this year. The only problem is the other, one of the other teams is Philadelphia, and they're going to be in that division. So, all right.

So, oh, wait, hang on a second. I got to stop you there. So which one of San Jose in Chicago is not going to be one of the worst three teams in the league? San Jose. San Jose will be better than Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. Have you seen? I actually think both. I actually think both.

I actually think both will finish with more points. Guys, look at the Penguins' goaltending. Look at the Flyers' goaltending. Look at their defense cores. It is a, it is like taking a pile of rubbish, dousing it in like kerosene, marching it into the town square, setting it on fire, and then trying to put it out with more kerosene. Like those, the Pennsylvania hockey has never been worse. This is going to be the worst season in the history of Pennsylvania hockey for the NHL.

I love that. I don't, I can't top that for overreactions. So I hope it's a good year for Peters Township High School at least. Well, there you go. They're probably competitive with the Penguins defense score. That's what I was waiting for. Thank you, Rob. All right.

So we've got eight hosts throughout the week, I think, here at the athletic hockey show, meth and counting not always my strong suit. But Rob, I think you would probably be one of the few people who will appear on this podcast this week, who has not yet weighed in on Connor McDavid. The Oilers have played two games. They're 1-0-N-1. Where are you at on McDavid and the Oilers? We haven't asked you about his contract yet here.

So let me ask you, did you like it? Well, it's not a, it's not a team friendly deal. I wish we could absolve ourselves of that. What? A team friendly deal is when you sign long term and give the discount. When you basically put a gun to your organization's head and say you've got two, maybe three years, I'll stick around for at least two of them. But, but that's, that's not a team friendly deal. That is a smart deal by Connor McDavid.

It gives him the, it gives his group in Edmonton the best chance to build around him. but it's not going to work. They're worse than they were a year ago. Their goal tending is not going to be fixed. They've played a lot of hockey. Teams don't go to three consecutive cup finals for a reason. The Florida Panthers notwithstanding. There's a reason that doesn't happen very often in our lifetimes.

I think it was misguided. I think he should have tested the market. I think he should have tested the market and said, I'm signing a one-year deal with whoever has the best team, do what Marianosa did for those three. years, which was just like, hey, I'm going to go to whoever I think can help me win the cup. And if I like it there, then I'm going to stay. I don't think this was smart for him. I think he probably let his emotions get the best of him, let his friendships there get the best

of him. If the Edmonton Oilers were capable of winning a Stanley Cup with Connor McDavid, with the gift that is Connor McDavid, they would have done it by now. They haven't. They're not going to. He's going to play for another team. He's going to leave Edmonton very disappointed. And he's just going to have wasted the remaining years of his prime on that franchise. I don't disagree with your premise fully, but I mean, they clearly were capable of winning the Stanley Cup. They made it to the final two straight years. They made it to Game 7. Yeah, you can win, you are capable of winning.

They didn't win the Stanley Cup, but clearly they were capable. They were down 3-0 in the first one. They got to Game 7, Rob. They were not competitive for most of the second one. No, I'm just saying, like, they did a really good job of winning none of the games that mattered in the Stanley Cup final. Like when the series is 3-0 and you rally back, yeah, it's a game 7, but also they weren't really competitive in the game 7 either. Like even if we take this idea that the Panthers were just sort of the kryptonite for those oilers.

And even if that's true, and it may be true, they're not as good as they were last year or the year before. And guys, did you see Skinner on the opening night? Like, they know. Everybody that's walking into that dressing room knows. They're looking at that guy and going, he ain't got it. And, and Laz, how many times have we seen teams with a goalie, they know can't make the saves crumble under the expectations of having to outscore opponents? No, I agree with you there that the chances of them getting back this year are slim and none,

but that's why he took the short-term deal, right? Right. This was a no-win situation for Connor McDavid. He had to take less money or he looks like a jerk. He had to go short-term, so he kind of looks like a jerk. Like, there's no way he was going to win this. So look like a jerk and literally. leave.

Gretzky did it. They built him a statue. So who's clearly better than Edmonton right now, though? I mean, like, even with everything you just said, they may not be as good as they were a year ago, right? Like in Vegas, I think is the team that I picked the Stanley Cup to win preseason. Vegas, Colorado, Dallas. Vegas and Dallas are better than Edmonton right now, I would say. I would say that.

Clearly, like, like, not just like at the top of a tier that includes all those teams. Here's the thing. Like, the Oilers have enough high-end talent that they can beat any team on the planet without question. They have two guys that we have seen completely take over a, you know, a series and just win it on their own. McDavid got them to game seven. Drysidal did it against Colorado one, one leg a few years ago. Like, we know what they're capable of. But can they just do it 12 straight times essentially? That's where I just feel like at some point this is all going to catch up to them. And they're not the Florida Panthers. They don't have that kind of depth that the Panthers

have. And like Rob said, they don't have the goaltending. So it's hard for me to place them above Vegas and Dallas and even Colorado. I don't think they're going to finish with more points than those teams. But my point is I don't, I still think they're going to get into the playoffs. And when you have those two guys, you can beat anyone in a playoff series. And as long as you can beat anyone in a playoff series, you got to change. Unless they find a solution to their goal tending, I don't think they're getting out of the first round.

The thing was, McDavid, there was nowhere he could go. If he didn't sign this, you know, he would have been on this year. And then next year, there wasn't a better option. Like, he probably wasn't going to be able to make Dallas work. You know, there wasn't an immediate like here. It wasn't Marion Hoso, like you said, Rob, who was able to pick a, you know, a team on the, on the rise each time. There's not teams that can fit $20 million under their payroll. If Connor McDavid at the beginning of training camp says, I am not signing an extension, I am going to market, that gives every GM permission to clear the runway to add Connor McDavid next year.

It gives Dallas or somehow Vegas, you know Vegas would figure out some way to get it in. I mean, there would have been a team, and this isn't even with tampering, right? It would have been Florida. We all know it. Right, right. But that's right. Exactly. I just, Connor McDavid is going to be 30 years old, okay?

I'm not saying he's not going to still be the best player. But we've seen most likely the best version of Connor McDavid that we've seen in the NHL. At some point, the Connor McDavid that's going to play out these years in Edmonton, if he's not surpassed as the best player in the league, is not going to be singularly capable, along with Leon Drysito, of dragging an otherwise mediocre Edmonton team, past teams that continue to improve.

And so that's why I think this was a mistake. You're going to be the jerk anyway. Just own it and leave and do what's best for yourself. You owe that community nothing. You've given them everything. All right. Great stuff today, guys. I think we've killed everyone's dreams except for Islanders fans.

So congrats if you live on. Long Island. Cut for time. Me asking Rob if Sidney Crosby is getting traded. That is going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. We are now on YouTube as a reminder, so make sure you subscribe and follow along there all season. You could also leave us a five-star rating and review wherever you get your podcast.

If you're enjoying the show, we'll talk to you soon.