The Athletic Hockey Show - A semifinals matchup between Barry Trotz and Jon Cooper, Connor Hellebuyck and Mark Scheifele raise eyebrows in Jets' exit interviews, and more

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

Ian Mendes and Sean McIndoe discuss Sean predicting the hockey future for the second week in a row, what it be this week? Also, a semifinals matchup between two of the best coaches in the league, Barry Trotz vs Jon Cooper, Carolina fans cheering for their team off of the ice as the Hurricanes were eliminated, and Connor Hellebuyck and Mark Scheifele make some interesting comments in their Jets end-of-season interviews.Then, in the mailbag, is Shea Weber a first-ballot HOFer, and where should the league head next for a Global Series, and as always, they wrap up with a look back in "This Week in Hockey History"Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail], or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back, everybody. It's another playoff edition of the athletic hockey show. Ian Mendez, alongside Down Goes Brown, Sean Mack and do it. Head to the next hour or so. We're going to tee up the Lightning Islanders final four matchup. We'll talk about a pretty compelling battle behind the bench between Barry Trots, John Cooper. And yeah, we're going to tell you about a fun little story.

Our only interaction with John Cooper at a bar at like 1 o'clock in the morning at an NHL draft a few years ago. So that's fun. Montreal Canadians are having fun. They're waiting for their final four opponent. We'll chat about that and the Vegas Golden Knights, Colorado Avalanche. We'll break down what I think are too compelling, interesting, juicy, newsworthy, whatever you want to say. Soundbites from the Winnipeg Jets season-ending press conference,

one from Mark Shifley, one from Connor Hallibuck. And we'll wrap it up, as always, opening up the mailbag, talking about a quirky Tim Horton's commercial that Lodge Shea Weber as a first ballot, Hall of favor. This week in hockey history looks back at Brian Lotton being taken first overall in the spit of the wheel that landed Jill Bear Perra in Buffalo. But as we kick off this show, I feel like we got to give you a name. Like is it, is it Nostrasianus or something? Like, I can't stress to our listeners how bang on you have been, my friend, in the last two weeks of the athletic hockey show in Calling Series and saying exactly how they would.

play out. Yeah, it's the nickname might need work. Yeah. But yeah, two weeks in a row, I think we've got the clip. Let's play the clip and then I'm going to, I'm going to spill the beans. I'm going to tell you my secret for how I keep doing this. Somebody pointed out to me, and I've forgotten about this, but they, they pointed to the 99 Red Wings. Now, if you don't remember that team, they had just won the Stanley Cup two years in a row. They're going for number three at the 99 deadline they load up they go and they i mean they just go in a shop and spring bring in all sorts of big name veterans they look unbeatable and they go into the first round and they sweep just like colorado did and they go into the second round and they win the first two games

and so it's it's six straight wins to start the playoffs and people are going it's over man like this they just put their name on the stanley cup now go ahead and get a head start and what happens after that, they lose four straight and end up exiting the second round in six games. Now, the interesting thing there is who was the team that knocked him out? It was Colorado Avalanche. So Colorado fans who have been around long enough know that this stuff can turn pretty quickly. Okay. So that is, again, that is Sean from last week essentially calling out the avalanche and say,

you know, you got to remember back of the day, everyone thought the Red Wings were just going to roll. and they ended up getting rolled themselves. So, okay, what's the secret here? Let us in. What is the secret for how you know exactly what might play out between the Colorado Avalanche and the Vegas Golden Knights? It's the same way that I knew two weeks ago when you were trying to tell me that the Montreal Toronto series was over

when it was 3 to 1. And I laid out exactly how Montreal might go on and win the next three games. And the same last week, Colorado being up to nothing. Everybody's ready to hand them the cup. And I felt otherwise. Here's the secret. Here's what you do. You just have to remember that in the NHL playoffs, we are basically flipping coins.

That's it. That's all it is. We can put as many narratives and storylines around them as we want. We are flipping slightly weighted coins. So anytime you see any kind of consensus starting to form about what's going to happen, this team is done. this team is unbeatable, this series is over, go against it because there's a real good chance the coins

you're just going to start coming up on the other side and then you look smart when it happens. And of course, when it doesn't happen, you ignore it. We haven't been playing all the clips of all the many times I've been wrong about something. But when any time, in the NHL in general, but especially in the playoffs that you see any kind of consensus forming, this team can't beat that team, go against it.

because we just, we can't seem as hockey fans and media to get our heads around how much parody there is in this league and how close these teams are. And like I say, how much we really are just flipping coins here. Oh, see, I thought you had some sort of weighted formula and you had some sort of great analytics and statistical background. You're like, nope, just flip a coin. No, there's no model. The model is that it's all chaos and it's meaningless. Well, and then, okay, so along those lines, because I think we can agree that the Tampa Bay Lightning are going to go into their final four series, Sean, against the New York Islanders as the prohibitive favorites, right? The Lightning or the defending Stanley Cup champion. The Islanders still have a little bit of a kind of, we're punching above our weight field to them.

So I think most people would tell you, Tampa Bay is going to be the favorite. On the flip side, the Montreal Canadiens wait and see if they get the Vegas Golden Knights or the avalanche. But whoever they get, it's a fair and safe assumption to make that. the HABs will be the overwhelming underdog in that series. So based on everything you have just said, do we need to start mentally preparing ourselves for an Islanders Habs Stanley Cup final? Absolutely you do. Absolutely you need to start getting your head around that, which is not to say that it's going to happen. But at this point, when you get down to the four teams, which is where we'll be real soon, really any of the combinations can happen. And yeah, you're right.

I mean, Tampa's a great team. Defending champs, full power now after they weren't during the season. And they beat the Islanders last year. So they will be the favorites. And, I mean, you look at Montreal against whoever comes out of that Colorado Vegas series. On paper, those two West teams are far better. Far better. They're better constructed rosters.

They're more balanced. They've got more high-end talent. They were better teams in the regular season. They've been better teams in recent years. They will be prohibitive favorites, which in today's NHL means they would have about a 55 to 60% chance of winning a series against Montreal. And that's as good as it gets. That's as far as it goes in today's NHL. So, you know, I did a post this week where I ranked every possible series that was still in play for round three and four.

I did it from the worst to the best. And yeah, my worst series was Islanders Canadians. Because those are two teams that are played very well defensively. And, you know, a defensive team against a high-powered offense can be a real interesting matchup. Two defensive teams against each other in theory, at least, not very good. And we could potentially be looking at a Stanley Cup final of 1-0 games, 2-1 games. And a lot of people agree to me. Some people didn't think so.

some people thought that match would be fine, and that's good. But I had some people say, well, we don't have to worry about that. There's no way. There's no way that the Islanders are going to be Tampa. There's no way that Montreal is going to be Vegas or Colorado. And again, it's like, dude, I have you not paying attention to what the NHL playoffs have become in this era. It is so tough to call. And any possible outcome is absolutely on the table at all time.

So whether you're somebody who would be looking forward, we would think Islanders have to be a great series, but you didn't want to get your hopes up or whether you're, what I suspect is the larger group that doesn't want to see that series, start getting your head around it now because there's a real good chance it's going to happen. And we know that for sure we're getting,

as I mentioned, Tampa Bay and the Islanders. I thought it was pretty cool as the clock kind of ticked down on Wednesday night at Nassau Coliseum, the We Want Tampa Chance starting. And, you know, hey, listen, and careful what you wish for, but if there's any coach, Sean, that I think can get his team prepared to win a series when they're not the favorite,

it would be Barry Trots, who has done a remarkable job. I'm having a hard time thinking of a coach that has changed the narrative around him as much as Trots in the last three years. Because remember, Barry was the guy, you couldn't win with him in Nashville, right? Like he was, every year it was like, get to the playoffs,

and then they were like one and done or, you know, they would win around, but they'd be out. And now it's like, Barry Trots might be the, yeah, he might be the best coach, the NHL. And what I think is interesting is Trots against John Cooper, I think this could be the matchup but the two best coaches in the league. And as I start to look ahead and think like, okay, like maybe we're going to get the Olympics next year and maybe we're going to get a team Canada. How come we never seem to mention John Cooper, who was born in Prince George, British Columbia?

why do we never seem to mention John Cooper as a candidate to coach team Canada? I always hear, oh, it's going to be trots, it's going to be Joel Quenville, you know, Babcock was the guy, but I don't think he's in the mix this time around. Why is it that we don't seem to mention John Cooper for Team Canada? Or am I missing something here? I've heard his name come up, but you're right. There's, he doesn't seem to be at the front of the list. I don't know what it is.

I think part of it is because he's relatively, new as a head coach in the NHO compared to some of the other guys. I mean, if you're, if you coaching team Canada is going to be a lifetime achievement award, then, you know, John Cooper has got a ways to go to catch Barry Trots and Joe Quenvo and those, those guys. He's also, he's a young looking guy, so you see him behind the bench and you go, oh, who is, how long has he really been at it? And then I think also a part of it is, and we see this in all sports, he's coached one team. he's coached a real good Tampa team and there's always going to be people who go

ah yeah but i mean who couldn't get that loaded all-star roster in Tampa to a Stanley cup and you know the answer is a lot of coaches wouldn't be able to we see that all the time in sports where teams that are star-studded teams can't can't get over the finish line and john cooper deserves credit for that i i feel like in a lot of cases certainly in the NHL. A lot of coaches, the reputation isn't made until they're on to the second job, or maybe even the third,

where you're saying that to some extent with Barry Trots, because I'll disagree with you where you said that Barry Trots might be the best coach in the league. I don't agree with that. I think Barry Trots is the best coach in the league, period. And I've been saying this for a couple years now when he came over to the Islanders and he won the Jack Adams,

and then in the subsequent years, people, well, who should win the Jack Adams this year? And I'm saying Barry Trott should win it. Barry Trots is the best coach in the league. If that's what the Jack Adams is supposed to recognize, he should be getting it year after year. For whatever reason, Jack Adams is one of those awards that you're just not allowed to have a repeat winner. But if I had a ballot and we don't, but if I did, Barry Trots would be at the top of the list every year. So really, if you're team Canada, you can't go wrong.

The ideal situation, if you're Canadian, you want to see that team do well, is you've got both those guys. so let's hope this series goes well and we don't see like some big fallout where these guys are suddenly at each other's throats and they don't want to work together when it's time for the Olympics. Yeah, like Cassidy and Trots maybe

after that Boston Islander series they had a little bit of drama there. Do you think there's also like, do you think like 30% of hockey fans think John Cooper is American? It could be. That could be part of it too. I mean, he doesn't have that

the coach is an American team which obviously shouldn't matter. but it might be it might be part of that too. You know, I also feel like we need to, and I just thought of this as you and I are talking about John Cooper. I feel like we should, we should, I think, I'm pretty sure you were there. We were in Florida covering the draft when, I was, whatever year, the draft was in Florida, 2015, I think.

And you and I were, we found ourselves at a bar at like one in the morning and John Cooper was at the bar. And we, remember, I, you, and I think you are the guys. that convinced me to go over to John Cooper and ask, has anybody ever called you John Cooper Mellencamp before? And it was like 1.30 in the morning. And he looked at me. And he started laughing. And he's like, no one's ever thought that no one has ever said John Cooper

Melanchamp to me before. Which I couldn't believe. Because I was, I was trying to sit you up that, you know, you were going to go over and he was going to be like, yeah, man, I heard that like 9,000 times growing up. Thanks a lot. And instead, he just, yeah, he acted like you were the first person to ever bring it up. And, yeah, draft weekend. Don't ever let it be said that we don't do real journalism here and ask the hard questions of the big names in the NHL.

You know, and just to wrap up the thought on Trotson and Cooper, my biggest fear as a Canadian hockey fan is that Hockey Canada overlooks Barry Trots for the Olympic team. Trots gets so angry, he goes to coach Latvia and, like, constructs this perfect team and system that takes out Canada in some critical quarterfinal game. You can absolutely see that, right? Yeah. It's quarterfinal. It's 1-0 Latvia, early third period, and you just team Canada just can't get anything going. Yeah. Yeah, you could absolutely see that.

He'd be the right guy to do it. You know, I also want to talk about as I mentioned the Islanders fans, which, chanting, we won Tampa. Well, Carolina fans were also pretty boisterous Sean this week after their team actually lost to the Tampa Bay Lightning. So as the Carolina hurricane season ended in Raleigh at the PNC Arena, their fans kind of cheered them off the ice. And look, this is a team that finished first place in their division. And they were kind of right in there, like they were arguably, you know, statistically in the regular season, as good as any team in the league. they got cheered off the ice in a season in which I think it could be described as a disappointment

when you don't get to the final four. And it got me thinking like, could this ever happen? Like, are we too bitter in sort of original six cities or Philadelphia? We're like, you know what? Hey, guys. Good job. Way to go. And I guess here's my question for it because obviously your teams of Toronto Maple Leafs.

when Toronto got knocked out by Washington in 2017, they were like this upstart plucky team. They lost game six at home, did they not? They would have, yeah. Like, do you have any recollection of Leafs fans be like, you know what? Better days are ahead. Thank you for a wonderful season.

This was good? Or like, was it just, like, do you have any recollection of the Leafs losing when they were kind of this lovable, you know, upstart team? in 2017. I mean, I don't remember what the crowd reaction was to that. I think, did they lose an overtime in that game?

Yeah, they did. Which is always, you know, sort of a weird thing for a crowd to see. But I wouldn't have been surprised if they had a positive sendoff there. Just given that that was the start of the rebuild. and they were happy just to be there. They certainly weren't a team like Carolina where you looked at them and said, this is a team that's built to win a Stanley Cup.

And look, as far as the reaction of Carolina fans, I had no issue with it. If you're a Hurricanes fan and you're telling me that you're satisfied with how that season went, I might have a problem with that. If you're telling me that the season was a success, even though you only don't,

only won one playoff round and you got rolled in five games by a team that that you seemed like a pretty even matchup with, I would push back on that. And I think there need to be higher standards, higher expectations. I think this was a year where Carolina was absolutely right there in the Stanley Cup conversation and to go out that quickly in the playoffs has to be a disappointment. But as far as the fans in the building that night, I don't have any issue with it all because you got to remember the context of this season and what this season is. has been and what it's been like in buildings across the league with the season starting off,

mostly empty buildings, slowly but surely a couple fans getting in, then a little bit more, a little bit more. And to finally have those full buildings and just everything that goes with that as far as playoff hockey in front of full or mostly full buildings and what that may have meant to people been sitting inside for a year. You know, Sarah Sivian's done a good job sort of walking through how this was bigger than just reacting, I think, to an outcome of a hockey game. This was a chance for some people to maybe say thank you to a team for bringing something

back that had been missing. I didn't have any problem with it at all. In a normal season, you know, if it's next year, we're back to normal and the same thing happens, then okay, maybe I can put on my grumpy traditionalist pants and say that there's something wrong with it. But this year, under the circumstances, no issue at all with with fans saying thank you like that. By the way, grumpy traditional pants are like triple pleaded cackies. Yeah. They are. There's no doubt. We're going to be selling them on the merchandise shop. They're a good look. You know what I love about you too is that I'm like, hey, what happened in 2017?

team with the Leafs, and you're like, I think they lost it overtime. And it was Marcus Johansson who scored it overtime to knock the Leafs out. You don't have a great recollection of that. Ask you about the 93 Leafs. You can walk me through the five minutes before, you know, Mike Polino's overtime goal in Game 5 against Detroit and what led to that. But it's amazing that 2017, this opening of the window for this Toronto team, it's like, you're like, yeah, I think they lost it overtime.

The Folino goal, by the way, was set up by Wendell Clark, absolutely walking Nicholas Lidsdrum, if you ever want to go back and watch that replay. Future teammates with the Detroit Red Wings, Wendell Clark and Nicholas. Okay. Why do you have to do that? I thought you were going full Ilya Brees gal off there with your voice. It's only, it's only, why do you have to do that? I might have to. Yeah.

Okay. I want to get into this Winnipeg Jets season ending availability. season-ending media availability on Wednesday, Sean, because there's two clips we want to play for you here, kind of back-to-back, and then I want you to sink your teeth into, like, which is the more kind of eye-popping, jaw-dropping sound bite? Let's start with Connor Hellebuck.

Jets' goaltender gets to the podium, asked a little bit about the team and the direction. So first of all, here's Connor Hellebuck. Nothing that happened this year was a clue. We're very close to being able to make runs. being a dynasty, but it's just going to take a few more pieces and we'll be there. All right. So there's Connor Hallibuck saying, boy, the jets are on the precipice of being a dynasty.

That's clip one. Clip two is Mark Schifley. And of course, Schifley was suspended for the duration of that series after his hit on Jake Evans in game one. Have a list of Mark Schifley. Kind of taking a shot at the Department of Player Safety. It's crushing to, you know, that my season was ended by that. and I wasn't able to play in this series. You know, I thought I was going to be,

I thought I was going to be tried to shut down by Philip Deneau. And, you know, it was Department of Player's Safety that shut me down. So that definitely sucks. All right, Sean, it's time to play. Which one of those clips was more unbelievable jaw-dropping, shocking, surprising, bewildering, whatever adjective you want to use. Connor Hellebuck or Mark Sheifley? I think the Mark Schifley clip is worse.

The Connor Hellebuk. clip is more ridiculous. If I can kind of, if I can kind of split it that way. Yeah, I mean, you got swept in the second round and you're talking about on the verge of a dynasty. When you just got swept by a team that has actually had a dynasty, you know, won five straight cups. I don't feel like the Winnipeg Jets. I don't like the Jets. I think they're a better team than they showed in that series.

I don't feel like they're on the verge of any kind of dynasty. And that was sort of one of those spit-take moments when you heard him say that. But I'm willing to give him by Pat, we've all been there. We've all had a thought in our head and overshot the runway a little bit on the landing. And I think that's what happened to him. He wanted to express confidence. He wanted to say, hey, we think we're on the verge of having something special here, which is something that a lot of players in that situation say.

And I'd be willing to bet if you hooked him up to a lie detector that he would tell you that as soon as the word dynasty went out of his mouth, he was internally kind of going. Did I just say dynasty? That's not great. But I will give him credit for the point he was trying to make. Whereas the Mark Shinkley thing, boy, that's not a great look. And especially for a guy who's had a week to not just. just think about what happened in game one, but to think about how he would present his side of it, you know, this wasn't a guy who was caught off guard. He knew exactly what he was going to be

asked about. And it was, it was not a great, not a great look. And it, it certainly doesn't seem to have played well with, with most of the fans that I've seen that, uh, they got to listen to it. You know, I think on the Shifley one, and we played it there, you know, he says, you know, I thought it was going to be Philip Deneau who shut me down. It was the Department of Player Safety. It almost felt like he were not rehearsed the line, but he had thought about that. Like it was almost too, too perfect to have just come up with that on the spot. Is that, is that fair? Is my read on that fair? It's what it sounded like. It felt pretty meditated. We're not mind readers, but that didn't, that didn't feel like an off-the-cuff thing. And, uh, um, um, Yeah, I mean, again, it's just, it's kind of one of those things where it's like, look, read the room. I get where he's coming from. We talked about the hit last week, and we talked about how we both felt it should have been a suspension and probably a significant one. But I get that from his perspective, maybe he's sitting there going, hey, I'm a clean player. I'm not even a very physical player.

Maybe I screwed up once, but to suspend me for what turned out to be the rest of the playoffs, I should have been given a bit more benefit of the doubt, a bit more leeway. This league doesn't like to spend guys in the playoffs. I don't know why I'm the only first-time offender who gets hammered. I could see that at least. But the reality is you're not the victim on this. I mean, there's a guy on the other side still hasn't played yet, who's just kind of getting back on the ice.

You have to know that outside of the down, Die-hard Jets fans were going to have your back no matter what. Nobody wants to hear you do a poor me routine. And especially one that's, you know, this wasn't even really a sympathetic version of it. This was a guy, I mean, he sounded angry. He went on like some other ran where he was talking about, you media, always do this and that. I get why he's ticked off. I'd be ticked off too.

My season ended that way. but like I say, read the room a little bit. You have to know where somebody around you has to know that that sort of comment isn't going to play great. You know, you mentioned, you know, if you hooked up Connor Hellebuck to a lie detector that, you know, maybe he would be a little bit more truthful. How about this for an idea?

In the next CBA, every player coach and executive has to submit to one time per season at the media's request. You got to be hooked up to a lie detector. one time per season, we get to choose. Maybe it's game 35 of the regular season. Maybe it's after the Stanley Cup playoffs. One time, we get the truth. I think it's a great idea.

I can't imagine that they would have any objection to that. No pushback. I think it would be, yeah, it would be fantastic. You could, it would be exciting. You could let the fans vote. You know, who's going to be, have it sponsored. I don't know what companies are out there making lie detectors, but it's the Acme lie detector, honest sound bite.

of the night. You guys voted for this play. All right, we're going to, we're going to hear from Brady Kachuk. And we're going to find out what he actually said in that scrum. And here we go. That'd be great. Yeah. I don't, let's see if we can get it slipped in there. I don't see how anyone would object. See, I think Bruce Cassidy was actually hooked up to that the other night. In the, you know, post game, what he kind of let that go? What do you, what do you think of that type of? And obviously, it didn't work out in terms of, you know, hoping that maybe it would give them an edge for game six and they'd force a game seven. What do you think of that type of gamesmanship at the podium in the Stanley Cup final?

Because we have seen this for a long, long time. I always think of Ken Hitchcock, John Tortorella. I think it was 2004. Philly and Tampa. Yeah, it was Philly Tampa in the conference final in 2004. And they would just yap, yap, yap, go back and forth. And it was this one, it was a terrific theater. It was great drama.

But do you think that there's anything, there's any value to that? I think a Gretzky two at the podium in 2002. Like, it was the best one ever was. The best one ever. Remember Brian Burke? Oh my gosh. 2002 against Detroit.

Doing the whole the Siddens is not Swedish for put me in a headlock. Yeah. And he just down the list. I mean, we talked about Shifley feeling like it was rehearsed. I mean, Brian Burke clearly had sat down with a pen and a pad and come up with all of these lines. And he just went and delivered it.

And look. Brian Burke back then, Gretzky at the Olympics, and I think to some extent Bruce Cassidy this week. Part of the reason that people do this is to make themselves the story and take some of the heat off of others.

And look, Bruce Cassidy, we can all even talk about what he said, and we did. And we spent 48 hours arguing over what he said and not talking about the fact that the Bruins, penalty kill, a bit awful in that game.

Or not talking about the fact that, geez, Tuka Rass doesn't really look right this last little while. What's going on with that? We were instead talking about the refereeing, talking about the coaching. I honestly think that working the refs like this is a bit of an art form. And I think there are some coaches that can do it.

And I think it does have an effect because I have this crazy theory that I've advanced in the past. And I know not a lot of people seem to agree, with me, but I have this crazy theory that NHL officials are human beings. And therefore, all of the regular psychology and everything

that comes into play is going to come into play with them. If they feel like if they take to the ice and they really feel like this one team has had a rough go of it in this series, there's just going to be a natural inclination to maybe, just on the razor thing close plays,

maybe you nunch it the other way. And look, work in the refs happens in every playoff series. Every playoff series has got a supervisor who is there and accessible to the teams, and they will constantly, in some cases, complain about something. And it's usually something specific. You kind of saw it with Barry Trots. He did it a little publicly, but I bet it was behind the scenes too,

where they were complaining about Patrice Bergeron on the faceoff, that he was cheating. And next thing, you know, Bergeron's getting tossed out of face-offs. That sort of stuff happens. it's supposed to happen, but the league likes it to happen behind the scenes. They want that conversation to be had privately. Once

it goes public, they tend not to like that. But if you feel like you're not getting the results privately, maybe you've got to up the temperature a little bit. There's always a risk because it becomes one of these things where the coach says, we're not getting the calls.

The referees then go, okay, now I know I'm under pressure to even it up a little bit. But, because it was done publicly, everyone else knows I'm under pressure. So now if I make a call and it helps that team, are people going to think that I'm just caving into the coach and all this? And you kind of go back and forth. At the end of the day, I mean, it didn't work as far as them getting back into series. They did get the first couple of power plays. So, I mean, maybe it helped a little bit there. I think there's probably an arc to it. I feel like Bruce Cassidy maybe

went a little overboard. But it was a good line. I mean, we're going to be talking about the New York Saints for a while. And by the way, that was my favorite part of it, was the implication that a team called the Saints would benefit from the officiating in the playoffs. We've got to get Bruce Cassidy's Sunday ticket and get him watching the NFL

if he thinks that the Saints are the team that is going to get the breaks from the officials. All right, Sean, time for us to open up the mailbag, a reminder you can hit us up with an email. The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. The athletic hockey show at gmail.com. You can also drop us a voicemail. We'd love to hear your voice.

845. 445. 8459. Let's open up the mailbag here. And I know on the Tuesday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show, our American counterparts, Craig Custin's, Sean Gentile, tackled some annoying, kind of repetitive commercials that are air. in the United States, right? During the Stanley Cup, playoffs, it happens no matter what you're watching. NHL, NFL, there's a cycle of ads that constantly, you know, repeats itself.

And so the one in Canada for you north of the border that we've been subjected to. And I guess if you live in, you know, along the border and you get CBC, you've probably seen this one too. It's the Tim Horton's ad where the guy is arguing for Shea Weber being a Hall of Fame. And we got an email in here from Jay Mark, who says, as a Canadian watching the Stanley Cup playoffs with low production value commercials, Tim Hortons actually gave me a thought-provoking item to consider, guys, is Shea Weber a first ballot Hall of Famer? He's never won a Norris trophy.

And while he's been one of the best defensemen in the league, is he really a first ballot lock? And Sean, for the people that have either A, never seen this commercial or B, they live in the United States and have no idea what this is, this guy is kind of vehemently arguing that Shea Weber is the first ballot Hall of Famer in this Tim Horton's commercial. So let's discuss where does this have any merit? Yeah. Let's not go too far in the commercial. I will say this.

Sean Gentile and I, we have heard you. We will be bringing back the same thing that we did last year where he is an American and I as a Canadian make each other watch our country's worst playoff commercials and react to them. We did that last year. He exposed me to the Tara, Tara Look at Her Go commercial, which I still have not fully recovered from or forgiven him for. but we will have, I think, a lot to say about that terrible,

terrible Tim Horns commercial featuring the very confident Austin Matthews fan, which I'm sure seemed like a good idea when they were planning that out that ad campaign a while ago. And as well as the only Edmonton Oilers fan on the entire planet who thinks Leondresightle is the best player in the world, I'm looking forward to breaking that down. Shea Weber, first ballot hall. of Famer. I wrote about this a couple of years ago, and I found it really interesting. I love

Hall of Fame. I love debating the guys who are eligible. I love debating the guys who are still playing and what do they have to do. And Shea Weber is one of those guys. And there's, there's a Mark Andre Fleury is another where I find that if you talk about a Hall of Fame debate with them, people push back and they say, there's no debate. You're talking about debate on this guy. The answer is easy. But then you ask him what the answer is and it's kind of split down the middle. There's a lot of people out there who are like, yeah, Shea Weber, of course, is going to be a first ballot hall of favor. Why would we even argue?

This guy's been one of the best defensemen in the league for a decade. He's been top pairing team Canada. You know, the guys, he just looks like a hall of favor out there. And then there's other people who, as our emailer say, would point out this guy, he's never won a Norris trophy, which surprises a lot of people. but he never has. He's never won a Stanley Cup. And even with a guy like Shea Weber, if you look at, he's thought of,

I don't think he's thought of as an offensive defenseman, but that is part of what you think of, the big point shots. You look at his numbers, and as far as points scored, he's not all that high up the list, where he's certainly not in the territory where you go, okay, this guy's a lock.

So I think it's an interesting debate with Shea Weber. I think he's getting in. And part of it is just, Shea Weber is one of those classic guys that the 200 hockey men love this guy. There's a reason he's a lock on every team Canada forever. He's the, the grizzled, just watch the games crowd loves this guy. And that's most of what makes up the Hall of Fame committee.

He's never won a Norris. He's been a runner up a couple times, though. He's been a finalist. He's been a four-time postseason All-Star, which is that's when he's, you talk about somebody being an all-star, that's what you want to see is the postseason. Forget about the middle of the year games. That can be anything.

But it's very clear when you look at the all-star voting. This guy was in the conversation for Best Defenseman in the league for a long time. And look, there are, can you make the Hall of Fame if you haven't won a Norris? You haven't won a cup? Yeah. Brad Park did. And nobody had any problem with Brad Park going in. Boris Salming's another guy.

Nobody had any problem with Boris Salman going into the Hall of Fame. I think Shea Weber's going in first ballot. It could depend on who he's up there with, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. I think he's much more likely to go in on his first time through than he is to not go in at all. Let's put it that way. And all of that from a Tim Horton's commercial, not to say anything of that more annoying Tim Horton's commercial for the, was it, ice coffee? Yeah, that one's even worse. Yeah, it's a debate.

It's a debate. I threw that out on Twitter and the results were very split. So I don't know. We're sitting here talking about terrible Tim Horton's ads. And meanwhile, we just spent two or three minutes saying the name of their product over and over again for free. So I think they won this round. All right. So another question into the mailbag here.

We go. The Athletic Hockey Show, gmail.com. This one is interesting because, you know, we haven't had the global games, right? the NHL Global Games. DJA wants to know. When the world gets back to normal, the Global Series games return, where would you guys want to see the games played in the return?

And so the last time, I looked this up too, the last time we had an NHL Global Series game was in 2000, end of the fall of 2019, Sabres and Lightning played each other, which I have no recollection, but they were in Sweden, I guess. Is there anything that jumps out to you that you're like,

because it's usually the same thing. It's Sweden. It's Finland. It's the usual suspects. Is there anywhere else the NHL can go here? It's been a while since they've been to Japan, right? Yeah, somewhere like that. They've sort of settled into this idea that you go to Europe

and you bring a couple of teams that have star players from that. So, I mean, you know, you kind of scratch your head over why you do Tampa Buffer. but I'm assuming that was Rasmus Dalyan and Victor Hedman and you want to get those guys in front of their home fans. It would be cool to see them think a little broader. Yeah, Japan would be cool. I mean, China, you're going to the Olympics, presumably, so you're getting your exposure there. You know, have they gone to the UK?

Is that something where there would even be, where it even makes sense to do it? And then I guess the question is, do the teams want it? do it. And what does it, how does it impact a season? And I feel like maybe this is just me. There's this perception that when you go over to year and you come back, it just, it disrupts the season. I remember the, remember the senators going a few years ago after they had, uh, it was right around the time where they were making the Matthew Shane trade. And, and then that's when everything fell apart. And you kind of look back and go, well, is that, did that contribute? That's probably just, just confirmation bias kicking in where you see.

something. I think, oh, that one thing must have caused the other. Obviously, if Tampa went a couple years ago, they seem to have done okay lately. But yeah, it would be neat to see the NHL get a little more creative. But at the same time, I kind of get it. It's, it would be very cool to see them over, you know, in England playing, you know, in London in front of 20,000 fans. That'd be awesome. Them over in London playing in front of 200 fans, because it turns out nobody there really cares about the NHL or wants to pay to see it would not be so much. Was there not a run? And I feel like the Penguins did it. And maybe I'm wrong, but was there not a run at one point where if you started the season overseas, you actually won the Stanley Cup?

Like, it does sound familiar. Yeah. So I raise a bell. I think the Penguins, well, I know, I know, because I was there. Penguins and Ottawa started the 0809 season in Stockholm. Penguins ended up winning the cup that year, 2009 and Crosby's, whatever, you know, third or fourth year in the league, right? And then I'm pretty sure the next year, the Chicago Blackhawks started overseas, wherever it was, Finland, and then they won the cup. Like, there was like, I swear there was like this little run where you would. You know what? I'm on board.

Toronto, make beliefs. And I feel like the Boston Bruins in 2010, 11 started the season overseas. I think there was like three years in a row. Okay. Let's get the Leafs in there. The Leafs don't have any great year. Let's send Austin Matthews down to Arizona. We'll just do a stadium series there. Let's get William Nealander.

Let's get him. We'll go to where he was bored. And then they wind up flying to Calgary. We should have checked this a little closer. All right. Time to wrap up the show as we always do with a little this week in hockey history. So I'll tell you what, Sean, let's start with this. because, again, we're at that point where a lot of this week at Hockey history

at Stanley Cup final stuff, but there's also some draft-related stuff. So let's go back to June 8th, 1983 with the Minnesota Noist, Stars. So like Brian Lotton with the number one overall pick that year. And I think it's interesting because Gord Cluzeck went two that year, if I'm not, or... No, it was Sylvan Terrier. Oh, sorry, Sylvan Terjan. And it's funny because I thought exactly that. but Luzac was at the number one pick

like the year after the year before. Okay, but before we get into the crux of this week in hockey history, it's surprise trivia time for the trivia master down goes brown. Okay? So Brian Lottin was taken first overall and ended up later being a general manager

in the NHL. Who is the only other guy? I'm pretty sure, like so, like since 1970 onwards, to be taken first overall and serve as a general manager for an NHL team. I think I got this right. Oh, boy. Okay. First overall. Yeah. First overall.

And you ended up being a general manager. Like, like, Mario LeBue is not correct because, you know, he's not the GM, right? He's the owner. Yep. But there's one other guy that was taking first overall like Lawton that ended up as a general manager. See, and I think we'll talk about it in a minute because Dale Tallinn was a number two. Exactly.

And that was the first. You know what? I do know who it is. and he was a senator. Mel Bridgman. Yes, guy. Mel Bridgman was a first overall pick back in. Would that have been?

70s? 74? Late 60. Yeah. No, I think it was in the 70s. I think it was in the 70s. Anyway, if you're looking to stump your friends, ask them who are the only two players in NHL history

to be taken first overall, and later be a general manager, Brian Lotton, Mel Bridgman. But let's get back to Brian Lotton. June 8, 1983, 1383, Sean. the stars, North Stars take Brian Lotton, as you mentioned, Sylvain Turgeon goes two to Hartford, and then sitting there at three and four,

back to back to legitimate, not Tim Horton's first ballot Hall of Famers, like straight up Hall of Famers, Pat Lafontein and Steve Isamund. So I think a lot of people talk about, oh man, the Habs missed out when they took Doug Wickenheiser, they passed on Denny Savard. But as the Minnesota North Star is passing on

both Lafontein and Isamon, a more egregious mistake? Is that the worst? Like just based on what kind of came right after him. Yeah, because that's the way to look at it, right? Because there are, you know, Brian Lutton was, he was okay as an NHL player. There are other guys who can pick first overall that you would look at as bigger busts, I think. But you've got to look at what else was available.

Like Neil Yakopov was a huge bust for a first overall pick. But who else in that 2012 draft? are you really going to want? There weren't a lot of big names. Patrick Stefan, I mean, yeah, the Siddines were both there, but they were a package deal. You weren't just necessarily going to be able to grab them both unless you could Brian Burke your way to it.

I think Lawton's certainly right up there. The thing with him is he was the first American, I believe, to be taken first overall. And maybe in a market like Minnesota, maybe that carried some weight. Maybe we're thinking, you know, We're going to have the next great or even the first great American superstar in this league. That's going to sell some tickets.

So that maybe forgives you a little bit for overlooking Eisenman, but Palo Fontaine was American too. So you had that right there in front of you. I think it'd be right up there. The other one that kind of does jump to mind, and this is with benefit of hindsight. But obviously the senators in 93 taking Alexander Dague and then Chris Pronger going right after that. That's one where you look back. There's really no question over who you'd rather have and build a team around. Although, I don't remember at the time there being much question over who was going to go number one overall.

I don't think that was a year with a lot of debate. So it's maybe a little bit tough to blame the senators. but that would be one that would be up there. The Rick DiPietro year was that? Is it Haley number two? Danny Hietly, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, that's, D. Pietro obviously didn't work,

but it's not like Hightley went on to become a real all-timer. Yeah, I think you might be on there. The only other one would be if you go back to 1990 and any of those first few picks who were good players. That was the year it was like Nolan, Ritchie,

Ned Ved, and then Yager goes, I want to say fifth. Clearly, if you have that to do over

again, you're taking Yager over any of those guys. But again, at the time, I don't remember there being a lot

of talk that Yager would go any higher than that. So, Brian Lotton might be the one. Yeah,

and it's crazy, too. Like, Brian Lotton was out of the league at the age of 27. Ended up in San Jose, but I always find that

remarkable, too. You go back, And like in the 80s and 90s, guys careers would end at like, they'd just be out of the game at like 28, 29. And a lot of, you know, some of that was injury. But Brian Lawton, I think was drafted out of high school. Yeah. I mean, you're taking 18 year olds out of high school there.

There's a long way to go. Even back in those days where a lot of the top picks jumped right in in the NHL, it's hard to know what you're going to get. And, you know, it wasn't an off-the-board pick by any stretch back then. But it was clearly not the one that they should have made. And when you've got, as he said, two pretty clear Hall of Famers sitting right there, including one of whom was another American that you would have been able to build and sell tickets around. All right. You mentioned that we were going to bring up Dale Tallinn.

Also this week in hockey history, June 9, 1970, Buffalo Sabres end up winning a literal spin of a week. and they get the first pick overall in the 1970 draft. They end up getting an iconic franchise player in Gilles-Ber-Paro. The Vancouver Canucks have to settle for number two. They get Dale Tallinn. So a pretty big discrepancy there again between one and two. But I think we need to focus on the method in which the Buffalo Sabres got this pick. And I know that this is right up your alley.

For the listeners who don't know how the 1970 essentially will call it a draft line, But like, explain to our listener, Sean, the spin of the wheel that landed Gilbert Perrault in Buffalo. This is, this is maybe my all-time favorite dumb NHL history story. And anyone who's read my book or read my stuff or listened to me, you've heard this story before. But if somebody out there hasn't, you're in for a treat because it's one of the great, dumb things that this league has ever done. So to set this age, it's 1970, the league has just expanded from 12 teams to 14. They're bringing in Buffalo and Vancouver. These are the two new teams coming in.

And the way things work back then is when you had expansion teams, they got the top picks in the draft. There's no lottery. There was no letting the existing teams ahead of them. Vancouver and Buffalo are going to get picks number one and two. But they got to figure out who's going to get which pick. And it's important because this is one of those drafts where there's one guy head and shoulders above everyone else and that's Jill Bear Perrault. He's going to be the number one pick.

And then beyond that, there's some good prospects, but nobody who's at that same level. So how are you going to decide who's going to get the top pick between Buffalo, Vancouver? I don't know. I'll throw it to you, Ian. If you had to decide equal chances between two things, I don't know. Any ideas on what you might want to do? If only there was something that, you know, hey, you let off the podcast with a flip a coin, man. Flip a coin.

Flip a coin. I said this was the flip a coin league. It wasn't in 1970 because they decided, and part of why I love this, presumably this was the one time in that era of the NHL that somebody said, let's be creative. Let's do some marketing. Let's make a spectacle at it. Let's not just flip a coin. Let's get one of those big raffle wheels and we'll spin the wheel. And that's how we'll decide which one of these teams gets to pick. cool. So they decide to go and do that. Well, problem number one, they don't have a wheel. So they got to go and find one. They send somebody out, please go and find one of these things in time for us to do this, this pick. Somebody does find a wheel. They bring it in. Okay, here's problem number two. The wheel's got an odd number of spaces on it. You got two teams. You got 13 spaces on the wheel. So that's not going to work. What they decide they're going to do is they're going to, if Vancouver is going to get the low numbers, one through six, Buffalo is going to get the high numbers,

eight through 13. If it lands on seven, we're going to re-spin. You would think at some point in all of this, somebody would go like, guys, I have a quarter right here. Like, we could do this right now and take care of it. But no, they decide they're going to do this bit.

So they get, everyone's in the hotel room. They've got the cameras. It's all ready to go. And they step up. And it's Clarence camera. Campbell, the NHL president, steps up and he gives the wheel a spin and everybody waits with made of breath and he looks at the wheel and he turns and he announces the wheel has landed on the number one.

That's a low number. The Vancouver Canucks have won the first overall pick. And the Canucks table erupts and there's high fives and handshakes and this is a great omen for the future of the Vancouver Canucks that they have won already. They've started this winning tradition. Now, obviously, if you're a fan of either of these. teams or just the NHL, you're sitting here going, I don't think Jill Bear Perrault played for the Vancouver Canucks. And he didn't. And here's why. As this celebration is happening,

the Sabres GM with Ponchi Imlack looks at the wheel and realizes it didn't land on number one. It landed on number 11 and the elderly president of the NHL has misread the wheel. And so Punching him like a wave somebody over and says it's not on number one. It's on number 11. The numbers were stacked on top with each other. So it was a one and then a one below it. And so Campbell has to get up and say, oh, hold on, everybody. I messed up. Actually, Buffalo has won the first overall pick.

And that's how they got the first overall pick. That's how Vancouver got number two, who ended up being Dell Talent. And that's why Gilbert Perrault famously played his entire career with Buffalo wearing the number 11 because of that raffle wheel. and the the NHL expanded again added two more teams in 72 and 74. The wheel never made a return. It was coin flips from then on in. But I'd love to bring it back. Let's bring it back for the next lottery.

There's got to be a way we can get this thing and see how Gary Bedman's eyesight is, see if he can read it properly. Do you think, and I can't remember what year, this again, my memory kind of gets, It's maybe five years ago, six years ago. Remember when Steve Harvey accidentally crowned the wrong, like, Miss America? Do you think anybody told Steve Harvey about, hey, man, you're not alone, here's this story. Do you think this story of the NHL accidentally awarding the number one pick to Vancouver made its way to Steve Harvey to make him feel better? I hope not.

I don't feel like that would be very comforting. It's the big three. Steve Harvey crowning the wrong. pageant winner, the year that they announced the wrong best picture for the Oscars. And then the 1970, you imagine going to Steve Harvey and being like, hey, man, you're not alone. The NHL did it in 1970. And he's like, oh, and did they then land on their feet and recover?

And people are like, no, it actually, it's, they've been a joke for decades. This was pretty much typical of them. It's, it's, I just, I love the story. And God bless who I, I've read a bunch of histories and pieces. about it, but I want to know the full behind the scenes. I'd watch a two-hour documentary on just the conversation that led up to this. I want interviews with the guy who had to go and find the wheel. I want the whole deal.

I would line up to pay to see that. But I also thought, like, was this a made-for-TV event? Is that why they didn't go with a... No, it wasn't. I mean, it's not like back then. Right. Anybody was lining up to broadcast this, you know, live. There's no TSN and Sportsnet fighting for, for, for constantly.

They did film it. You can find very grainy looking footage of this, but no, I think it was more of a made-for-the-med-for-the-media event and probably get a little bit of extra hype for the local fans, but it did not go well. Okay, let me sneak one more this week in hockey history here. June 7, 1997, the Detroit Red Wing, Sean, and their 42-year drought. They win the Stanley Cup. They knock out the Philadelphia Flyers June 7, 1997. And the kind of cup clinching goal is a highlight real goal scored by noted tough guy, Darren McCarty. McCarty, I think it was Yaninema that he walked.

I can't remember. But unbelievable move, scores a goal, wraps up the cup. Here's my question. Darren McCarty's cup clinching goal. Best ever goal scored by a tough guy? Or does Brad May's May Day, Mayday? take the cake, or is there some other goal that I'm not not thinking about? I feel like those are the two big ones.

There have been, you know, because they happen in the playoffs as well, one was a series winner and one was held up as a cup winner. I've seen every now and then tough guys score some big goals. I feel like there was like a George the Rock goal where he pulled a spinnererama on somebody and, you know, that sort of thing. But those are just regular season ones. Those are the two that would stand out to me. They're both great goals.

Kind of similar, sort of similar moves. You give Brad May some extra credit because, you know, he didn't just walk any defenseman on that. He did it to Ray Bork, which is, by the way, one of my favorite parts of Ray Bork's legacy is that he's one of the absolute all-time greatest defensemen. I think he's even underrated by modern fans as far as just how amazing this guy was. But boy, did he have a habit of showing up in highlight other people's high. highlight clips. You know, Merrill Lemieux putting into skates. Bork was also the guy that Lemieux went around when he famously scored his first goal

on his very first shift in the NHL. And the Brad May thing, it's, it was a classic. One of my favorite moments in that Brad May highlight, other than, of course, the Rick Generic call is when they go the length of the ice for the great celebration and Dominic Hasek jumps in and you're like, oh, yeah, that's right. I remember Dominic Hasek did make a cameo in that series before he, took over. I got to give it to McCarty because it's just such a great goal and it's a cup winner.

But to me, those are one and one A and I'm not really sure that there's another one that's all that close. All right. As we wrap up this episode of the podcast now, you've gone two for two. Two weeks ago, you're like, hey, the Toronto Maple Leafs are up 3-1. Here's how the rest of the series is going to go. Last week, Avalanche were up 2-0. You're like, you know, be careful what happens here.

remember the Red Wings back the day. So do you have any last minute prophetic comments about what lies ahead in the next seven days in the National Hockey League? Nothing beyond, and I'll just, I'll go back to my, go back to my well again on this, because I tweeted this a few days ago, anybody who, once we know if it's going to be Colorado or Vegas, anybody who tries to tell you it's going to be an easy sweep over Buncher, all, don't listen to them. This is absolutely. In fact, I would not be at all surprised we see Montreal go in at least wing game one and just put that that shiver of fear into everyone that, oh, my goodness, this is actually going to happen.

And then from there, who knows? Check back with me next week once the narratives have had a chance to solidify and develop, and I'll tell you which ones are wrong, and it's probably all. All right. Well, listen, we're going to isolate that audio because I'm sure when we roll back next Thursday. Only if it's right. If it's not right, trash it. Exactly.

All right. Enjoy the weekend and we'll do this again next week. And yeah, that'll wrap up this edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. A reminder, we're a five-day-a-week thing right now right through the NHL draft. Coming up on Friday, Corey Pranman, Max Boltman, kind of have a prospect edition of the athletic hockey show. So if you're a draft geek, a prospect nerd, you love that type of thing. Make sure you tune into the Friday edition of the podcast. I'll be back to wrap up the weekend with Haley Selvian on Monday. Thanks for joining us.

again next week. A reminder, drop us an email, The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com. And if you're not a subscriber, you can join us at theathletic.com slash hockey show.