The Athletic Hockey Show - Aaron Dell handed a 3-game suspension, Keith Yandle breaks ironman record, and the potential temporary home for the Arizona Coyotes

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

To kick off this Thursday's episode, Ian and Sean discuss Buffalo Sabres' Aaron Dell being handed a 3-game suspension, the rarity of goalie suspensions, and if Ron Hextall’s attack on Chris Chelios is the worst goalie-on-skater crime in NHL history. Also, Taylor Hall's hit on Nathan MacKinnon, and discussing the biggest collision between NHL superstars. Then Keith Yandle just became the NHL's new ironman record holder, is it possible for Phil Kessel to pass him?In "Granger Things", Jesse Granger joins the show to first discuss the news of the Arizona Coyotes potentially calling Arizona State University their temporary home, then looks at four teams' strength of schedule for the first half of the season vs. the second half through a betting lens.The guys answer two voicemail questions; one on if Marc-André Fleury gets traded to the Capitals, and another asking for best "bang for the buck" NHL contracts, and to wrap up, a look back with "This Week in Hockey History".Have a question for Ian and Sean? Email [e-mail] or leave a VM at [phone]!Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome back. It's your Thursday edition of the Athletic Hockey Show. Ian Mendez and Sean McIndoo with you. As always on a Thursday ahead in the next hour or so, we'll discuss Erin Dell and that's a three-game suspension that was handed out. A rare suspension for a goalie in the NHL. We'll also talk about that big Taylor Hall hit on Nate McKinnon from Wednesday night. We'll touch on the mess in Philadelphia. Iron Man Streaks are going to be a topic of discussion too, both with Keith Yandel. and we'll bring that up in this week in hockey history too.

We've got some voicemails to play from our listeners asking about a delicious scenario that might see Mark Andre Fleury end up in Washington. Plus, what are some of the best value contracts around the NHL? Jesse Granger's going to pop by, as always for Granger things. So we've got a lot of things to shoehorn in here into this hour or so. Got to ask you this, Sean, right off the top, because it's rare to get the goal. suspension for something that a netminder did against an opposing skater. In fact, I think I even texted you.

I think it was on Tuesday night when this went down. And I'm like, I can't find any precedent for a goalie being suspended. The only thing I could find was Ray Emery on Max LaPierre in 2007 was like the last time I could find a goleon skater type of suspension. But this was probably, it's hard to find precedent for this. And I hate, I hate debating. it should have been five games, should have been four games. But, I mean, three games for Aaron Dell.

I'm glad he got something because it seemed like it was kind of an unnecessary play by the Sabres Netminder. Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. These are exceedingly rare. I think there was the – you mentioned the Ray Emery one from 2007. I think there was a Jamie McClellan one as well back then. That one may have been in the playoffs. But beyond that, I mean, I was –

kind of rack in my brain when you texted me. I figured there had to have been something. It doesn't seem to have been. I mean, and it's not only is it very rare for goaltenders to be suspended for something that happens on the ice, I'm not sure I can ever remember a suspension quite like this one where it's basically an interference slash body check. You know, you get it sometimes for stick work. That's usually what a goalie gets in the rare cases. that they get nailed, it's, it's often for that. You know, in this case, what looked like it was developing is just a harmless play and to have a goalie kind of drop the shoulder like that.

I can't remember seeing it happen too many times, period, and certainly not to the extent that it results in a suspension. You know, one of the things we saw the discourse from this, and again, it was Aaron Dell Buffalo goalie who basically interfered with Ottawa forward, Drake Batherson. and Bathurston's four checking on the play. Dell out of his crease, shoulder checks Batherson. Batherson's unsuspecting.

And that's what we should point out here. It's not a common play. And unsuspecting not because he wasn't paying attention or he got caught with his head down or he was admiring a pass or anything like that. It's unsuspecting because contact with goaltenders is supposed to be completely forbidden. So, I mean, he's if he, if he, he's aware of Dell, which obviously he is, all he knows is that he has to avoid him. He absolutely cannot make contact with him.

So yeah, you're not expecting the guy that you're not allowed to touch to suddenly launch himself into you. Yeah. And so look, I saw the discourse on on social media or in the comments of my section, comment section in my article in The Athletic this week about this incident and people saying, you know what, maybe goalies should be fair game. You know what? If they're going to do that well, then as soon as they leave the blue paint, they should be vulnerable.

I got a couple of thoughts on this. First of all, I don't think we have an epidemic of goalies leaving the crease and initiating contact. If we had five or six or seven goalies doing this, I think it might be a cause for us to have this conversation, but we're not. I think Aaron Dell is a little bit on an island here.

He's an anomaly. So there's that. But I also don't think you can, I think it's a slippery slope. I just don't think goalies with the equipment that they wear, by the very nature of the position they play, I don't think they should be fair game when they leave the crease. And I think the trapezoid is there.

We've got a lot of areas where I think there's areas where you protect the goalies. I would not like to see any sort of change to this. I understand why people might say it. I don't agree with it. Yeah, and everybody always thinks it's a good idea right up until it happens to their goalie. and then they would be absolutely fair. No, it's a terrible idea. It's, you're being kind.

It's, it's, it's an awful idea. We would never see it. We never should. It has never been the case that there was any sort of free pass on hitting goalies, which first of all, people seem to imagine that the goalie goes out of his crease and anyone can just run them. I mean, you can't hit anyone in the NHL who doesn't have the puck or hasn't just had it. That's interference.

That's part of the rulebook. So the idea that the goalie gets both skates onto the white ice and suddenly you could just send them flying would be, it wouldn't be how it worked. But even after they touch the puck, no, it's a different position. These are key guys to the game. Nobody wants to see people getting hurt. And no, the correct way to deal with this situation, which as we just finished saying is incredibly rare, is to make it very, very clear to the goaltenders that you cannot do what Aaron Dell just did. That is a cheap hit. you are taking advantage of the rules to protect you.

And to hit him with a suspension is absolutely appropriate. And hopefully it sends the message. But it's not, as you said, it's not a message that particularly seems to need to be sent because we don't see it very often. Aaron Dell himself has done it before. He had why it was Mark Stone, I think, where he basically threw the same move. And we should say, Aaron Dell after the game basically acknowledged exactly what he did. in, you know, kind of defending himself. He said, well, I, you know, I wasn't trying to hurt him.

I was just trying to slow him up and, you know, give my defensemen more. Well, yeah, you were trying to, you were trying to interfere with him is what happened. And look, in the NHL, if you throw a hit that is, that is against the rules and it results in a major injury, that's, then you're going to be held to account for that. And it was the right call by the league to suspend them. If they wanted to go higher, I would have been fine with that. But no, we don't need to go and change the rules. And, you know, suddenly we've got playoff series being determined because goalies are getting run.

That would be awful. And nobody would want to see that. I know. Somewhere there's a Sabres fan saying, what about me, speaking of goalies being run, Milan Luchitz and Ryan Miller. That's the all-timer. There's, I mean, look, there's, there have been, we, we get goalie collisions where goalies come out and play the puck. And, I mean, that's, that's kind of a different thing where, you know, you do have the right to go for the puck as well.

And we've seen some, some notable cases of that. But, no, I mean, there's, there's a handful. I remember back in the 80s, there, there were a handful of times where guys actually did run goalies behind the net or places like that. And it, you can imagine what it immediately led to. And that's not how the game's played anymore. And, you know, in, in, we certainly, you know, I don't think anyone wants to see the NHL turned into the NFL as far as quarterbacks where certain guys are so protected that there's, you know, virtually nothing that you can do.

But we're fine where it is now with goaltenders. Trust me, you think it would be fun right up until it was your goalie and then you would lose your mind. There's a lot of Ottawa fans, Sean, that are absurd. set that some sort of vigilante justice wasn't seen through by the Ottawa players, that nobody on Ottawa ran Arundel or at the very least there's some Ottawa fans. Okay, we get it. You can't just go and run a goal.

DJ Smith even told us after the game on Tuesday, hey, this isn't 20 years ago. You can't go running around. If we ran over the goalie on purpose, now we're probably looking at a bigger suspension because they're going to look like it's premeditated. you know, but people are saying, you know what, somebody should have just grabbed like, you know, Jeff Skinner or Tage Thompson or somebody from Buffalo and say, you know what, you can't do that to our All-Star forward. You just, you can't do that. And I just want to know where you come down on that as we talk about the modern NHL. Like, should there have been a message, a stronger message sent by Ottawa? Because clearly, I mean, look, Brady Kach came to the podium Tuesday night and said, hey, it was a bullshit play. Like, it wasn't like. like they were hiding their emotions. Like they were dripping with anger. Should some of that anger have come out on the ice?

They were clearly ticked off during the game too. And, you know, there were some words. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's 20 years ago, we know how this would have been handled. But it's not 20 years ago. And, you know, look, I'm, there is still a big part of me that's, that's kind of old school when it comes to this stuff. But I've made this point before. If you want to talk about sending a message or, you know, whatever it is, all I'm asking is be honest about what you're asking for.

Like, what do you want the senators to have done? Don't say send a message. And he said that that's a meaningless phrase. What do you want them to do? Do you want them to run Arindell? Then you can say that. Do you want them to, you know, grab Jeff Skinner or whoever? Okay, well, what do you want to do once you've grabbed them?

Grabbing them isn't going to send a message. What are we talking about? And usually what it comes down to is what people are saying is, I want somebody to go out there and try to hurt. hurt someone. And if that's how you feel, go ahead and say it. But you have to say it. Don't hide behind, you know, little metaphors and that sort of thing about messages or that kind of thing. And look, that's been part of hockey for a long time. A lot of the guys that I cheered for growing up, my very favorite players, they sometimes went out and they had to hurt guys because that was the job. That's what Bob Probert was there to do. That's what a lot of guys like that

were there for it. We've seen it happen in the NHL, you know, where teams have responded. I think back a few years with Sean Thornton, a guy that, you know, had been in the league a long time and there was, you know, a situation between the penguins and the Bruins. And it was, you know, people were waiting to see. Is there going to be, is someone going to send a message? Is someone going to send a message? It was Brooks Orpick. And Sean Thornton sent a message. And he sent the message by throwing a few punches. And he ended up hurting Brooks Orpick. And everybody lost their minds. And everybody said, you can't do that. And there was a long suspension and they dragged him out in front of the cameras and he had to, you know, make a tearful face and

apologize and all of that. And I was sitting there thinking, what was he supposed to do? Everyone who wanted him to send a message, everyone who wanted him to do something, what was he supposed to do? What do you do when some, because I mean, Jeff Skinner, whoever on the Sabres, isn't going to drop the gloves and say, okay, I'll fight you because my goalie did something stupid. So what do you do when they skate away and say, no, I'm not, I'm not engaging with this. What do you want them to do? And, you know, if you're as a sense fan or whoever and you're willing to say, yeah, you know what, I want them to go up and sucker punch Jeff Skinner. And that's the message that's going to get said. Then, okay, say that. Don't hide behind, you know, cutesy little sayings and because that's what we're talking about.

And we've seen it go bad. And as soon as it goes bad, everybody turns their back on, on the guy who did it, even though they were probably the ones cheering it on right before it happened. You know, and I wonder, too, like, it was a three-game suspension for Aaron Dell. I wonder when it comes to goalie suspensions, if there should be a little bit more of a formula put in. And I know, look, Aaron Dell is basically the backup here. But maybe he was only going to play once in the next three games anyway, right? Like, I wonder if they should work in a formula, look at a goalie, how many games he's played out of the team's last, you know, eight or ten or whatever. and then figure it out from there and say, you know what, technically, we should probably

levy a seven-game suspension on this guy because that, in the seven-game window, that's when he would have played three times. Yep. Catch what I'm saying here. Sort of like what they do in baseball with starting pitchers, right? Yeah. You know, the batter might get two or three games, but the pitcher's going to get five because that's how they'll make sure that he.

You know, there's something to that, again, this happens so rarely that it's, you know, I'm even sure that we need a policy or something in place because it's so unheard of for goalies to get suspended. I guess the counter argument would be that whether he plays or not, Arindell is still losing the salary from those games that he's suspended for. So, you know, if you bump that up even higher, I don't know. I mean, I've seen a few people suggest that the appropriate suspension would be, or the appropriate punishment would be that Arindale has to play every game for this Buffalo Sabres team.

and every minute no matter what happens. That might be worse. But yeah, I mean, I don't know how you handle this. You got to go back a long ways to get to the point where any goaltenders were causing problems like this. So I'm really not sure what you do. Yeah, and the one goal that you think of obviously is Ron Hextall, because Hextall was a guy who was suspended multiple times. The one that I think of all the time, like, is there anything else as we think about kind of goalie on skater crime?

in NHL history. So anything worse than Ron Hextall at the end of the 89 playoffs, leaving his crease, charging out of his crease to attack Chris Chellios to the Montreal Canadians in retribution for what Chellios did earlier in the series

with a high hit on Brian Prop. But Hextall leaves, charges out, takes down Chellios, and gets a 12-game suspension to start the next season. I know we talk, I know there's a lot of people saying, what Aaron Dell did,

that Drake Bathurstins is about his back. as I've ever seen a goalie due to a skater. There's nothing in the stratosphere of Hextal on Chelyos, is there? Well, I mean, that one was certainly a bad one. I don't think he did a ton of damage to Chalios just because everyone else jumped in immediately. But the strange thing about that is you go back and watch that game was still up in the air. That was game six of a playoff series that the Flyers were trailing three games to two.

And that game was not finished. And he still chose that moment to do it. So it was, that was bizarre. The other guy that has to be in the conversation, though, is, and it goes back a few years earlier, but Billy Smith was the other guy who had a real reputation for going after guys and stickwork especially. I mean, he butt-ended Lindy Ruff in the eye back in, I want to say 1980, and did, you know, some serious damage. And there were other players. In fact, the reason that goalies have to take the butt end of their.

stick. That rule was put in place because of Billy Smith was so adept at catching guys on the way by. It was, it wasn't the Erindel dropped the shoulder. He would just accidentally get the butt end of his stick out there and clip a guy. And, you know, he certainly had some run-ins with the Oilers where he was slashing at guys. And so he'd be the other one. But we haven't seen it since. Even goalies that since then have had reputations, you know, Patrick Waugh was certainly a hothead, but he went after other goalies. And, you know, even Ray Emery, we remember him fighting Andrew Peters, but he didn't, you know, he wasn't out there during the run of play looking for, looking for skaters.

It's very, very rare to see something like this. Yeah. Speaking of big hits and collisions and controversy this week in hockey, one of the best players in the game, Nate McKinnon, had an incident on Wednesday night. Sean Taylor Hall kind of caught him as he was going over the blue line. and you know what happens. Every time there's a hit involving star player, we break it down frame by frame,

and we start to think about was this illegal and what did, you know, was there, you know, and basically it was one of those situations where I think initially it was a five-minute penalty, right, and a major, and then it was rescinded to a minor because I think the rule basically is if a major penalty is called on the ice, the officials review it.

It can't be wiped out entirely. It can be just taken down. It's absolutely ridiculous. And I wanted to ask you about this because, like, I understand the rule there, but you're telling me that if you look at something again on replay and it's not egregious and it's not a foul, like, why is it a minor penalty then? Yeah. And I don't know. And, you know, there's an example of this that ended up being famous for a very different reason. but a few years ago when the Leafs were playing the hurricanes and Kyle Clifford collided with the goaltender and got five minutes.

And then you looked at the replay and you realized there was absolutely nothing he could have done. He was, you know, he was being pushed from behind. The goalie initiates the contact. That ends up being the goaltender injury that leads to the David Ayers situation, the Zamboni Driver game. But then they review it and they still have to give him two minutes and the hurricane score on the next power play to, you know, what ends up being the winning goal in that game. It's a ridiculous rule. The only thing I can think of is that I don't,

I don't know if this was something from the referees where they want to say, hey, look, if we've called a penalty, we don't want coaches yelling at us to take it completely off the board. Or if it was the league saying, if you're going to put your arm up, there has to be a penalty. We don't want you guys call it five minutes and then realizing, oh, no, we, you know, it's,

but it doesn't make a lot of sense. So no, they should absolutely be able. if you're going to have penalty review, which I'm on the record as not being in favor of. But if you're going to do it, then actually do it and let them take it off the board. Because in this case, I'll be honest, when I first saw it in real time, I thought that's absolutely a five-minute major. That's a suspension. It looked like the classic case where a guy cuts across and picks the head and maybe you're, or maybe you're trying to get the body, but you miss and you clip the head and it leads to an injury. and, you know, I'm looking at that thinking, that's textbook.

But then you see a few replays and you start thinking, well, you know, maybe did he clip him in the head? Was it the shoulder? And it starts looking a little weird. And you're going, hey, it looks like he hits him in the shoulder. So why does the head snap back? And then there's the one replay you see where what actually happens is McKinnon in just the way he's carrying his stick. The stick kind of gets up. And it's the stick, really, that gets hit by Hall and knocked into Nathan McKinnon's face.

and that's what causes the cut because there was a fair amount of blood. That's what causes the head to snap back. And at that point, you start realizing that, you know, to my eyes at this point, this was actually a clean hit that just had a really bad result based on the fluke of the stick being in the wrong place. Yeah, and McKinnon's own stick, too. And I think what I was thinking last night, you know, Taylor Hall has won a heart trophy. Nate McKinnon might win a heart trophy at some point in his career. And certainly has been a finalist and a candidate for that award.

And I was thinking, point, like, what's the biggest hit or the biggest collision in the history of the NHL, Sean, that involved two offensive stars? Because obviously when you think of, well, Hall of Famers, you think of Stevens and Korea. But that was a defensive defenseman taking out an offensively gifted player. So when we just use the parameters of offensive star players, star forwards, hitting each other. Because again, now I'm thinking, okay, Pavel Burry and Shane Trilla, no, one guy isn't. One guy wasn't an offensive guy. So what do we got here? Like, is there any collision you can think of big head involving two megastars that were both offensively minded who were involved in a big head or a collision at some point?

I got one for you. And it's two guys who were two Hall of Famers, one of whom was known for being a physical player. The other one wasn't. And you're going to, as soon as I say it, you're going to know exactly what I'm referring to because it's very well remembered, but not. for the hit itself. Mark Messier on Mike Madano. Oh. Where he catches him.

So that's how he ended up on the stretcher? That's how Mike Medano ends up on the stretcher. We all have seen the clip. And if you haven't, then you got to get to YouTube right away because it's one of these things. It's one of these stories where we have to start at the ending, which was Mike Madano was fine. It was everything was okay. So we can look back on it and laugh.

But yeah, Mark Mazzis. SIA hits Mike Medano coming across, it's actually exactly the same sort of hit that we were just talking about, where he kind of picks the head on a blindside player, the sort of hit that would be a 20-game suspension today. But back then, that kind of hit was allowed. That was considered, you know, it was on you to keep your head up and all of that stuff. And he hits Medano and basically knocks him out on impact. Madano goes down, hits his head on the ice, starts bleeding from the back of his head. He's spinning on the ice. So there's like this little spiral

of blood. It's this really scary looking situation. And then they pick him up and they load him onto the stretcher. And we've probably all seen the clip. They take him to the ambulance and as they're loading him in the ambulance, they drop the stretcher. And this happens on live television by the way.

This is, you know, this was back in the day where guys were taken off on stretchers. They just sent a cameraman into the hallway to follow them. And it's like, so you get the announcers reacting to what they've just scene as they drop Mike Madano off the stretcher as they're trying to load them in. It's one of, it's, it's awful and also completely hilarious in hindsight, knowing that everything turned out okay.

But yeah, the thing people forget, that was, that was Mark Messier. And the amazing thing is, because I remember I wrote a piece once where I went back and I looked at hits that, uh, from the past that weren't suspensions and tried to figure out, what would they be today? and that was one of them. And I found there were comments from Bob Ganey, who was Mike Madano's GM, basically saying, yeah, clean hit.

You know, Mike's got to keep his head up. Mike's got to, you know, be aware of that. There's nothing wrong. We had no, like nobody had any issue with the hit back then. And if you go back and watch it now, I mean, it would be easy double-digit suspension. No questions asked if it happened today. A guy asked you about Keith Yandel.

And we've got to talk about the Philadelphia Flyers here for a second because Yandel breaking the Iron Man's streak, Doug Jarvis's streak, a rare, bright moment for the Philadelphia Flyers in an otherwise forgettable season. Yandel is now at 965. He passes Doug Jarvis this week. Does Keith Yandel get to a thousand straight games played? And the reason why I asked that is remember there was, you know, at one point during this streak, there was a thought he could be a healthy scratch. You know, now that he sort of passed that threshold, you know, do we see him healthy scratch at some point? Or do you think he gets to a thousand games?

Yeah, I remember. I mean, there was, it was the Panthers, right? Opening night last year where they, they had, if I remember, they had pretty much announced it. They said he's not going to play. And then there was a little bit of an outcry and I think somebody got hurt. And so he ended up playing and obviously played ever since. I mean, look, Keith Yandals had a great career. He's not an especially effective player anymore. I think it's, Fair to say. It's certainly not to the degree that he was at his peak. And that's, I mean, that's how it goes. You got a guy who's 35 years old and, you know, a lot of wear on those tires. That's what we should expect. That said, last time I checked, things aren't going super great in Philadelphia. So it may be the sort of thing where, and they've got, you know, they've already had a couple of guys at Ryan Ellis and Sean Caturier where they said, we're just going to shut them down. They're going to get surgery.

They're going to be done. So, I mean, I think they're going to, as they go down the stretch, it's pretty clear that they've run up the white flag. I think they're going to need some bodies to play. But why not let Keith Yandel get to 1,000? You know, the only scenario I can think of where he's a healthy scratch on this team is if somebody decides they want to send a message. You know, you want to send them out of nothing.

nothing is given, everything's earned, blah, blah, blah, but I mean, Keith Yandel isn't what he once was, but I'm not convinced the Flyers. I've got six better defensemen the rest of the way down this road. So why not let him be the first to get to that number? Well, let me ask you, too, about Phil Kessel, who's right in there, like, if at some point Yandel is a healthy scratch who doesn't play, Phil Kessel's on his tail.

Phil Kessel is 24 games behind on this Ironman streak. And I got to ask you a little bit about Kessel because he's the classic Hall of Fame bubble candidate. And look, he's closing in on 400 goals. He's closing in on a thousand points. I ask you this, Sean, if Phil Kessel can become the all-time Ironman streakholder and gets to north of a thousand games played in a row, does that impact his Hall of Fame chances? And does that improve his odds of getting into the Hall of Fame? Yeah, I think it helps a little bit.

It's certainly, I mean, this is not a street that is, you know, as revered in hockey as it is in baseball where it was Ripkin chasing Lou Gehrig. I mean, the fact that Doug Jarvis, who was a very good player, is not in the Hall of Fame, didn't presumably get anywhere near it. It kind of tells you that this isn't on its own going to be enough to tip you over. But maybe, maybe if it ends up being a close vote, I mean, I don't think Phil Kessel, I don't like his odds, if only because his, His reputation, and deservedly so, was as a purely offensive guy. And I don't think he's going to get to the overall numbers that he would need to have people overlook that. Not to mention the fact that for whatever reason, he just doesn't seem to be a guy that's super well-liked in a lot of circles. And that, you know, when you're talking about a small committee meeting in private, maybe that works against you.

But I will say this. I am all in on Phil Kessel as the NHL's all-time Iron Man. I would love to see that. How great would it be? A guy whose whole reputation is, right, he's the fat guy who eats hot dogs. He's out of shape. He does a skate during the summer. He just plays golf.

He just, he's winded on the bench. Every time you see him, he looks like me after I've gone for a jog. Like he's just, you know, head bowed and, you know, the pudgy every man. We all love finding our funny pictures of Phil Kessel and you send him to your friends. What does this guy do for a living? And nobody ever says pro athlete. For that guy to be the all-time Iron Man would just be absolutely fantastic. I would love to see that.

I'm, you know, I'm a Phil Kessel fan. I've decided, you know, long ago that I'm on this guy's bandwagon. How great would that be? If the guy that we all mocked, you know, as the every man, non-athlete guy, he's the one in this brutal, you know, vicious sport. he's the one guy who can get to the mountain that no one else could. I would love that. All right.

Listen, I've mentioned here that Yandel, Keith Yandel, Sean, has been like a bright light and otherwise dark season for the flyers. They've had multiple 10-game winless skids. It's been a tough go in Philadelphia. I thought it was interesting, though, that their chairman of the board said this week, that GM Chuck Fletcher is going to have a blank check to fix Philadelphia's problems. And I don't know where you begin.

I guess you begin with Claude Giroux. But, I mean, how painful might this short term be in Philadelphia? Well, this is the thing. I didn't understand that comment because it's all well and good. So you've got a blank check. This is a league with a hard salary cap. Like, this isn't a major league baseball team being told. Like, you've got a blank check.

This isn't even the NBA where you can say, okay, you can go into the tax territory or whatever. there's a hard cap. So you can give him a blank check. He can't use that blank check. Obviously, there are things that all organizations can do as far as coaching and scouting and whatever where you could spend more. But as far as fixing the roster,

the blank check doesn't help. What I would want to know is, okay, forget about a blank check. Does he have your permission to attack this in whatever way he wants and at whatever timeline he feels as appropriate? it because later in that same press availability, the same guy was making comments along the lines of, you know, we don't think we need to tear it down. We think we can be back in the mix soon.

You know, we think next year or the year after we'll be back in the playoffs. If that's what you're saying, that's what dictates the whole strategy in Philadelphia. And, you know, it's great to have a vote of confidence for your GM. But what happens if Chuck Fletcher goes in and says, okay, forget about my blank check. What I need is I need to be able to trade these six guys. for whatever I can get. We're going to strip it down. We might finish last next year.

That's okay. It's the Connor Bidar draft. Let's go and try to grab this guy. And it's going to be a few years before you're going to have any playoff revenue coming in. Is that okay? Is that part of my blank check? Because if you're going to tell him, no, no, no. We expect to be back to the playoffs.

Then, you know, your blank check is no good to him because this team's capped out like most teams in the league already are. So there was a Disney movie back when we were kids. called blank check, wasn't there? They're probably, right? Like in the 90s? Was there not a... Yeah, okay.

Okay. So anyway, just playing on... And now people will be jumping into our mentions here about the movie. People who listen to my other podcast know how I do on the pop culture. Yeah. I'm sure there was a Disney movie blank check. Anyway, we're going to play off that for a second. I'm going to give you, Sean, a blank check.

If you could, if you had a blank check and you're like, you know what, with a blank check, I could solve this team's problems ASAP. Are you going to Edmonton? Like, where would you go with a blank check that you think you could make a difference ASAP in the NHL? Yeah. Well, when you originally sent me this question, Mike, like, I was going to be a smart aleck and say, well, Tampa Bay, I'll go fix them. That's easy.

And I'll take the rest of the check and, you know, or some other team that's really doing well. I don't know. Of the teams that are struggling, man, you know, There are some of them where you look and you say, okay, like, you know what? You know, Detroit, for example, not going to make the playoffs, bad team, but they've got the pieces in place. They've got a plan. You know, the parachute in there on a team like that would be okay. Chicago would be an interesting one because I still feel like eventually if you decide to move some of those veteran guys, there's the possibility to turn that around reasonably well.

Seattle, you've still got lots of fan goodwill to get into and a lot of cap space. Ron Francis keeps telling us how much cap space he has. Let's see him actually use it. So, you know, those ones would be good too. And then the ones that I want no part of, Arizona, for obvious reasons. I think Montreal has got a real deep hole to dig out of. And I mean, Edmonton, I don't think Edmonton's hole is all that deep, but I don't think I'd want any part of that because, yikes,

that just, it just always seems to go in the same direction there. and I don't know I want to be the next one with my head on the chopping block. Okay, I did look up the movie, the 1994 movie Blank Check. Produced by Disney, the film follows a boy who inherits a blank check and uses it to buy a house under an alter ego, but is soon being searched for by several members of the bank, he cashed it under. It sounds like a two-hour, thrill-a-minute ride. this sounds like somebody saw home alone and said make make me a home alone copy yeah what if we so yeah so

congratulations to chuck fletcher who's apparently going to be handed this DVD to watch over the weekend i don't even think was there DVDs i think this might be a i think chuck fludger's getting a you know what you know what dude this was this was back in my video store days so yeah i'm going to assume you're right this is uh you got to you gotta get the vcr 100% the premise of this movie is basically what if kevin mccalister had a blank check just Yeah, this is it. All right, Sean, as always, it's a Thursday, which means time for a little Granger things with our friend,

Jesse Granger, brought to you by BetMGM, exclusive betting partner with us at the Athletic. And Jesse, before we talk a little bit about some schedules for teams down the stretch and the kind of strength of schedules, you know, an interesting piece of news dropped earlier today because you live in that kind of part of the United States, I mean, Vegas and Arizona aren't necessarily next door to each other, but, you know, somewhat.

You know, in the proximity. Look, you're close. Yeah, we're doing that thing that people do when they're like, oh, yeah, Ottawa and Toronto, right? That's half an hour away. Pretty close. I drive down there. It's about four hours.

Yeah, on your lunch break, yeah. Or, yeah, exactly. So, interesting bit of news that was broken by our colleague, a reporter Craig Morgan does a great job, by the way, covering the Arizona coyotes and is often first on a lot of those stories. And Craig had the story on Thursday morning that shocked a lot of people. Well, it just passes on to our list. if you haven't heard this, that the Arizona Coyotes are in advanced discussions with the

like Arizona State University, that that's where they would play their games because obviously the situation in Glendale is up in the air. I want to get a thought from both of you about the optics of an NHL team going to an NCAA facility that holds about one-third the amount of people that you would expect to be at an NHL game. do you guys see this happening? Could the Arizona Coyotes play at Arizona State University in front of 5,000 fans? Yeah, I mean, so I've been on the side of keeping the coyotes in Arizona just because, like you said, I'm kind of from the desert. I think hockey is in a better place when hockey's doing well in this part of the country. It's getting harder and harder to defend. Them proposing to play in a 5,000-seat arena is pretty crazy.

to me, the fact that that would even be discussed as an option is crazy and kind of shows you where they're at. And I think that it's very concerning that there isn't in a city as big as Phoenix in an area as big as that metropolitan area, they can't find a facility that's bigger than that that would accept them to play. So I think it's a sign of they are really, really struggling to stay there. And like I said, I've been kind of a proponent of keeping them in that area, but it's Getting harder to defend. What about you, Sean? Yeah, and I think it's also a sign that there has clearly been a belief all along, even as things got bad with, you know, as far as the bills and the delinquent bills and everything on their current home, that there have been a lot of people who figured that would all work itself out. The city was bluffing that, you know, this was just negotiations and leverage.

and I that's been a question this whole time is if that doesn't work out if they do get kicked out of their current arena that's the only arena right now in the area that is large enough to to host what we would consider you know an NHL team with an NHL crowd and look Arizona they're averaging 11,000 which is not great this year but it's certainly not 5,000 so we can all save our jokes about you know trying to fill fill a 5,000 seat arena. we've all been wondering what's plan B. And the reporting, especially by Craig, who's done a great job on this, has been it's either you've got to go to a bigger, like a ballpark or something, which we have seen NHL teams do in the past, or you've got to go to one of these smaller rinks. And it would be temporary. The idea here would be that you're going to build a new arena, but new arenas don't just appear.

It takes a few years. And so you just kind of bite the bullet and play in a substantial. standard arena for a few years and then you open your big shiny new arena. And not that different. Ian, you know, you and I remember in Ottawa when the senators first arrived, going to that, you know, that terrible rink jammed up against the football stadium where half the, there was only seats on half of it. And, you know, you're in there going, man, this is an NHL rink.

Well, it's not. But within a few years, they get their new arena and everybody kind of forgets about it. That would be the thinking here. But, man, I mean, that was 1995. This is, you know, 2020s. We do not expect this from big league sports teams. And if it goes this way, and again, there will be people who stay, this is all just more elaborate bluffing before they get a deal done at their current home.

If it goes this way, it's going to be a bad look for the league and for this team. All I want is if they move into the home of the Arizona Diamondbacks, they got to keep the hot tub, right? They got to keep the hot tub as part of the backdrop. For a team that struggles financially the way they have, like you mentioned all the backed up bills and a team that's like struggling to stay there, if they're going to go from selling 11,000 tickets a night to 5,000 tickets a night for however, it says three to four years in Craig's piece, that seems again like this team that's already hurting financially

is going to be hurting even more by the time this temporary thing would be done. I don't know. It just seems very odd. Yep. I mean, the revenue. new share is going to kick in big time. Wherever else you are, some of your, some of that money you spend on tickets and popcorn and all the rest of it is going to be going to Arizona to subsidize this, which

of course will lead to another round of what the hell are we doing. And the question for me is always, look, the fans up here, and especially up here in Canada, you know, we're all high and mighty about any other market. You know, we want every team move to Quebec City as soon as they don't sell out a game. game, it's going to be the players. It's going to be what happens someday when the players say, hey, we're supposed to be partners. We're supposed to be 50-50.

So why don't we get a say in the fact that one of our 32 franchises is being such a drain on league revenues? Because that's coming out of our escrow. We're financing this too. And do they push back hard on that? At which point, you know, we get to see just how much of a partner the league really considers them. And let's go to Brad Marchand's Twitter feed to find out his thoughts.

You're the reason why we pay escrow. Yeah, it's a great point, though, because at some point, the league, the players will say, as much of the players, I think really, anybody who's played in Arizona will tell you they actually like it there. Like, it's a great market. They love raising their kids there. Like, all that stuff is great. But you're right. Like, at some point, they will say, if we can't monetize this thing 25 years into it, like, what are we doing here? Yeah, it's a great, it's a great point. Maybe at some point the players will speak up. Hey, you know, Jesse, every week when we get you on, we love to kind of pick your brain on

some trends and things of that nature. And I know that this week, Dom put out his kind of latest Stanley Cup playoff odds and projected standings and kind of, the way Dom does it, I think he runs about 50,000 simulation. Like it's a 50,000 simulated season. And it's wonderful what he does. And part of it is strength of schedule, right? Like you now, and especially now that we've kind of moved the schedule around to accommodate for some of those postponed games, you're kind of now looking at this from a, from a betting standpoint, saying, okay, well, there's a handful of teams that maybe we should look at them through a different lens based on strength of schedule, the way that their schedule plays out.

So why don't we start with a couple of these teams? I think you might even start with the team that I cover on a regular basis, the Ottawa senators. Yeah, just to kind of give people an idea of what we're looking at here. I'm basically comparing the strength of schedule in the first half versus the second half, and I tried to find some teams that had the biggest differences, whether it's getting a lot easier or getting a lot harder. And the senators is an example of it getting a lot easier. I think we expected this team to be better than they were or than they have been. Not that they were expected to be like a playoff contender, but the senators have been worse.

And I think their schedules had something to do with that. They've had the eighth hardest schedule in hockey with an average points percentage of 0.509. Anything over 0.5 is going to be one of the harder schedules. And here in the second half, they're going to have the fourth easiest schedule in all of the NHL with 0.487. So I think you can expect more out of the senators. Not that that's going to help you much gambling-wise. I think maybe you can look to bet them on certain nights. But in terms of future winning the division, making the playoffs, that's probably off the table for the senators.

But I do have some teams that I think it does impact some betting, starting with the Los Angeles Kings, who are already having one of the most surprising season. in hockey. I mean, they're right there in the playoff chase. They're in a good spot, in my opinion, to make the playoffs in the Pacific Division. And they've done all of this with injuries to Drew Dowdy and some other key players. And they've done it with the second hardest schedule in the NHL. 0.517. There's only one team in the league that has played more difficult competition than the L.A. Kings through the first half of this season. And now they're going to play the fifth easiest schedule in all of hockey. So a King's team that is rounding in a form, Anzee Kopitar, Drew,

Doughty are having big seasons again for them. I think the two additions of Victor Arvison and Philip Dineau have been phenomenal. I was kind of questioning that contract they gave De Nose, especially without putting up many goals, but he's been phenomenal for that team. Arthur Kaliyev has been really, really good. I think a lot of people are expecting Edmonton and Calgary to kind of be the teams behind Vegas in that division. But I think a lot of people are overlooking the Kings. Like I said, second hardest schedule to the fifth easy. They have been playing very well against that tough schedule, things should get easier for them in the second half.

Yeah, you know, Jesse, along those lines, look, like Detroit would be a team that, you know, I think Detroit's been kind of punching above their weight a little bit. And I know that the eight teams in the Eastern Conference seem to be set, but hey, Detroit's been better than we thought. How does the Red Wing schedule look here in the back half? Yeah, right. Like you mentioned, in the East, there's a clear separation between those top eight teams. Detroit is that next team, though.

I mean, there's still quite a few points behind Boston and Washington for that playoff, for that wild card spot. But they are the first team out of the playoffs in the East. But they've done that playing the easiest schedule in the entire NHL. Their opponents have averaged 0.488 points percentage this season, which is insanely low. So the Red Wings have had a ridiculously easy schedule. And they've taken advantage of that. Some of their young guys, Lucas Raymond, Moritz-Sider, they've looked really good. But like you said, punching a little bit above their weight, they go from that to,

I couldn't even believe that this is actually true, but they go from the easiest to the absolute hardest in the entire NHL for the second half. Their second half opponents have an average points percentage of 0.529, which is very, very high. The Red Wings, like I said, they look like they're battling for a playoff spot. I think they'll probably finish closer to the bottom of the league than that playoff spot that they're kind of reaching for right now. Well, I'll tell you what, we opened up talking about, well, in this part of the conversation of the team that I cover the Ottawa with senators, why don't we wrap it up with the team that you cover, the Vegas Golden Knights? What is the second half of the season hold for them?

And will it impact their chances? In terms of strength of schedule, like, how confident should people be that Vegas will close things out and win the Pacific Division? Yeah, and I think this one probably has the biggest ramifications in terms of betting in terms of futures, if you're betting Stanley Cup, just because the Golden Knights are one of those teams. And right now the Golden Knights, I think last time I checked they have the 12th best record in the league.

So they're a lot closer to the middle of the pack in terms of just. just record than they are the top, which is where they'd expect to be. But I think that's a little misleading. They've played the sixth hardest schedule in hockey, and they've had the most injuries of any team. I like using NHL injury biz, I think, is the site. They quantify injuries by the amount of cap space you're missing. And the Golden Knights have almost double the next team, the next worst team, in terms of how much cap space they've lost to injury this season. Obviously, Max Patscheretti, Mark Stone, William Carlson, Jack Eichael, who's been sitting there, who was injured before he even joined the team. But this team goes from having the sixth hardest schedule to the sixth easiest schedule.

And not only that, like, so in Dom's piece, he mentioned, yeah, they're going from the sixth hardest to the sixth easiest. But the problem is they've played seven more games at home than on the road, which would make you think, okay, well, maybe that kind of cancels things out. But strangely enough, this Golden Knights team has been much better away from T-Mobile Arena than they have at T-Mobile Arena, which is not. That is so weird. Right. For the last four years, they've had one of the best home ice advantages in all of hockey. We have, we have cured the Vegas flu. Yeah.

Maybe the Golden Knights have the Vegas flu at this point. That could be it. Yeah. But, I mean, they've been 13, 10, and 2 at home, just barely above 500. Whereas I think they have the second or third best road record in the NHL, 12, 5, and 1 on the road. And they've gained points in like eight straight on the road. They're on a pretty big road trip right now playing Florida and Tampa Bay in these next two games. But yeah, the Golden Knights are a team that is going to get a much easier schedule in the second half.

They're going to be playing more on the road, which is where they've played better. And they're getting Max Patcheretti, Jack Eichel, Alec Martinez, Nick Haig, Mark Stone, fully healthy. A lot of really, really good players that haven't played a lot in that first half. So a team that you might want to look to bet in futures and maybe just on a nightly basis. I saw the Golden Knights are plus 200, I think, tonight, or close to that in Florida, which is the biggest underdog they've been since the like first 10 games in franchise history. And remember way back then, that was when we thought they were going to suck. So, so it's been a long time since the Golden Knights have been underdogs like this.

And understandably so. They're still missing a lot of those pieces in Florida's playing really well at home. But I think the Golden Knights are being undervalued right now in the market, which is something that doesn't happen very often. I come on here and talk to you guys all the time about how Vegas is kind of overvalued because they're the home team they get bet on. I think this is a rare circumstance where there may actually be some value to bet on the golden nights. Awesome stuff. Jesse, we'll leave it there.

Always love having you drop by for the weekly visits. Have a great week and we'll get you again next Thursday. Yeah, always fun. Thanks for having me, guys. Thanks, Jesse. All right. As always, great to have Jesse Granger dropping by for Granger things. And you know what?

What's also great is when we hear from you in this kind of our mailbag feature. And we always say, as much as we love your emails to the athletic hockey show at gmail.com, We really appreciate when you leave us a voicemail. And we've got a couple of voicemails to play for our listeners today and answer a couple of questions. You can get us on voicemail at 845-4-4-4-5-8459. So 8454-4-5-8459. If you ever want to just call us and drop us a question,

we love this feature. We'll start with Billy from Baltimore. And I'm assuming because he's from the Beltway, probably a Caps fan. Have a listen to this idea that I know it's been floated around, but here's Billy from Baltimore with a question for us. I'd love you guys to talk about the possibility of Mark Andre Flurry being traded to the capitals. The caps are in win now mode, and it just seems like goaltending is the only thing holding them back. I'd love to see the flower in a caps uniform, considering his long history with the pens, as well as his history with the Vegas Golden Knights.

how delicious it would be to see him facing his former teams on route to a Stanley Cup. I don't know who the cats would have to give up. And I would just love to hear your thoughts on the subject. By the way, I got to say, I love the little digging sound that we have, the little chime before we play his voice moves. I don't know why. I love that. It's very soon.

Yeah. So really from Baltimore is saying, what if the flower ends up in Washington? And, you know, I'm sure if you're a penguins fan, you're going to have some feelings about that. What do we think? And I've heard other people throw this out. Mark Andre, Florida, Washington. Yeah, it absolutely makes sense. Chicago clearly is not going to be a factor of much significance.

They should be looking to move veterans. You've got a guy on expiring deal. Absolutely would make sense to move him. And there are contending teams in this league that could use. a goaltending help, which is not always the case. But certainly I think Washington would be right at the top of that list, because neither of their guys has been especially good. And they are a team that otherwise seems like they've got all the pieces to make a cup run.

So I get that there be, you know, some irony there given the history with Pittsburgh and Washington. But, you know, Mark Andre Fleur is going to get to pick his destination. But I can't imagine he would have a big problem with going and, watching Alexander Ovec can chase another cup. It makes a lot of sense. I'm still hoping that he goes to Colorado because I want to see Colorado Vegas in the conference final

with Mark Andre Fleury and goal against the Knights. That's my dream scenario. But this one would be pretty good too. And I love the word. Billy used the word delicious in that in that voicemail. Solid. And especially, you know,

we have to say also, if this happens, then the hockey gods have got to give us Pittsburgh, Washington. You can't, you can't tease us on that. You've, you've absolutely got to give us those two teams in the first round. Okay. So, but you're saying you would find it more delicious to see Mark Andre Fleury play against Vegas than the play against. My delisio meter is higher for Vegas going to Colorado, the revenge game against the team that traded him. Just because I mean, you know, the history with Pittsburgh is obviously huge, but that's a few years ago. And the Vegas, you know, the sword in

the back and all of that other stuff. That's, that's what I'm looking for. Okay, but what if it's Edmonton, Vegas, and it's round one. Yeah. Is that still more delicious than Pittsburgh, Washington for you? That's, you know, that's up there. That's at the same tier. To me, Colorado Vegas, even though, you know, they haven't met that many times, that's the rivalry. Those are the two most loaded teams and, you know, and all of that.

But yeah, put them in Edmonton. That'd be okay, too. I'd take that. Okay. We got another voicemail. And this one comes in from Matt from Missouri, as Matt from Missouri. As Matt from Missouri, he's got a question for us. Let's hear what he says.

I'm out here on a warm, somewhat warm sunny day, playing basketball. And I'm thinking to myself about contracts with the NHL. I was wondering if on an episode, sometime you could go over who has the best value on their current contract around the league. A few guys who you think that team is being most bang for their buck. Production-wise and money-wise, obviously excluding entry-level deals. And so not sure if you've been over this before, but if you don't mind talking about that sometime, I really appreciate anything I was to say.

Okay, that's some A-level trolling from Matt, by the way. He's like, I'm just outside playing basketball. He knows damn well. Thanks, man. We're in Ontario where it's minus 30 and we're locked in here. Yep, we're buried under four feet of snow outside. But good, yeah, I'm glad you're working on your jumper. I'm really happy to hear that.

Skyhook and his jumper, all that stuff. All right. But his question is, looking for bang for your buck contracts in the NHL. Who's providing some value here? So what do you got? What do we got for? Well, I mean, yeah, this is something that comes up from time to time. And first of all, to state the obvious, the best bang for the buck in the NHL is always entry-level deals.

Yeah. If you can get anyone who can contribute at any sort of high level on an entry-level deal, then that cannot be topped. Even if they hit all their bonuses, even if things roll over, that's as good as it gets. Beyond that, yeah, there's always some guys who have. good value deals. And I like how he puts it. He's talking about the value. We always talk about these as good contracts, which is weird, right? Because we just automatically kind of take the team side and say, oh, this guy doesn't make enough money. It's a good contract. I'm sure he and his agent maybe don't feel like it's a good contract. But the guy that always comes up,

first and foremost, is Nathan McKinnon at, you know, six and change for this year and next year still. absolutely ludicrous value for a guy who's MVP absolutely in that best player in the entire world not named Connor McDavid conversation it's just an extraordinary value for Colorado and a big part of why they've been able to put such a great team around him

the guys in Boston really that whole top line or former top line but especially David Pasternak and Brad Marchand as much as it kills me to say he has really developed into an elite the best or maybe second best

left winger in the entire league and they're getting him for six in a bit he'd be double digits on the open market so I think those are the ones and then the two guys in Florida as well Herbadoo and Barcov both sub six

not for much longer and the extension already signed for Barkoff but those are the guys that really jump to mind as just being incredible value and guys that were just signed at the right time, their teams rolled the dice and they won. And it's a huge part of sometimes having that luck and that timing in the NHL is a big part of building a successful team.

And it's no surprise to those teams we just mentioned are all really good teams. So I also looked up cap-friendly's got a great tool. And it's called Cost Per Point, which is basically, it looks at your cap hit, your salary, and your production value, and then it spits out your dollars per minute, your dollars per point, your dollars per goal, all that stuff. So I'm going to read you a couple of names that are on that list. And the guy that's at the top of the list is Florida Panthers forward Carter Verhege.

And Verhege has 34 points this season for a cap hit of a million dollars. So in terms of like good value on like a non-sournors, star, non-entry level deal. For Hagee's number one, you know who's number two? And this will be interesting to see because when the Carolina Hurricane signed him, there was a lot of conjection, a lot of conversation around him. Tony DiAngelo. Tony DeAngelo at a million bucks is basically performing as a point per game guy.

And that's the value. We knew that's, you know, yeah, that's the value. And that's for all the negativity around that signing, that's what Carolina was going for is that you have an opportunity to get a guy on a cheap deal because of he's got to prove it, that he's got to show of the league that he's still interested in being a productive player in the NHL. And in terms of on the ice, it's paid off for them. And it's, you know, it's the same sort of thinking that's going to land to Vander Cain and probably in Edmonton very soon. Yeah. And they'll be hoping it works out the same way. And if it does, he'll probably

be high up on that list as well. And by the way, too, the St. Louis Blues are getting some pretty good value from a couple of players as well, again, using the cap-friendly tool. Ivan Barbashev is a $2.25 million cap hit. He's produced 34 points in 41 games this year. So Barbishev is having a sneaky good year, maybe kind of under the radar. And Jordan Cairo as a guy under $3 million is a point per game guy. So those are some of the the names that kind of come out. obviously now some cadry too is having a huge year when you rate his his numbers against it. So those are some of the, you know, you bounce around the league. And again, I would say go to cap friendly and in between your basketball games there.

And, you know, and check it out, Matt. And you'll love it. There's some great kind of under the radar guys that you can find there as well. All right. We're going to wrap up the show with a little this week in hockey history. And we're talking to Iron Man earlier in the show. with Keith Yandel, Phil Castle, Doug Jarvis. This week at Hockey History, we're going to wrap up the show by talking about Glenn Hall.

This is one of the all-time great records. This week in hockey history, Sean, Glenn Hall tied and then later that week would pass George Vezna. By playing in his 328 consecutive game, he would go on to play another 174. Glenn Hall played 502 straight games to set the all-time record. Like, we know that we'll never see that record again. So, but it got me thinking, like, if we're moving forward here, like, what's the new Ironman record we should expect from a goal? Like, do you think that we will ever see another goalie play?

I'm just going to throw the number 50 games out. Will an NHL goalie ever play 50 games in a row? And if the answer is no, what's the number? What's the threshold that you think we'll get to? to. I mean, it's, it's fascinating, right? Because it's this, the modern thinking with back to backs would almost disqualify that unless you get into injury situations or what have you. So unless that thinking changes, we won't even get that high, unless we count the playoffs. Now, if we roll this into the playoffs, because, you know, then you get a lot of goalies do start every game regardless

of scheduling. And you don't have as many of the back to back. backs, but I mean, you talk about the 502 being untouchable. Even, do you remember Grant Fier back in 96 when Mike Keenan just is, I'm just going to start him every game. I'm just not going to use my, I'll use my backup as a backup. He'll be the relief guy who comes in if the game's not going well, but I'm never going to start him. And Grant Fier made it almost all the way through the season before he, he had to miss a start.

We'll never even see that again. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I would say maybe 30 might be, I could see maybe. 20 with weird scheduling and, you know, some team that's got one clear starter and the backups out or whatever it is. But, you know, it might be interesting. And I don't think this information has ever been tracked. I wonder what the goalie record for Iron Man would be just for being dressed for games.

Like how many goalies dress for all 82 in a season and what's the streak there, where it's, you know, no injuries, no nights off in the press box. You either play or you're at least sitting on the bench in your ball cap. I wonder what that would get to. That would be an interesting one to see. Because that's how it works for the skaters, right? The skaters, they don't have to play 20 minutes a night to count. They just have to be in the lineup.

So I don't know. Hank Lunkwish would be the guy that comes to mind for me because there was probably a pretty good run there where he, if he wasn't playing, he was backing up, right? And he wasn't really a guy that got hurt all that often. Maybe Mika Kipersoff in his kind of big run in Calgary is another one. one. Yeah. Boy,

that's fascinating. Yeah. It's. Yeah. But nobody's, you know, Vasilowski is another guy. You know, he's kind of the old school guy of like the complete one A. Your backup is just whatever cheap scrub you can pick up off the, uh, off the scrap heap. But, you know, even him.

And that's part of the thing with Yandel and Kessel and these guys in the COVID times to not miss a game is, is really impressive because and also some good luck involved. But, uh, yeah, I don't know. I, I wonder if they're. be any way to find that out. I don't think there is. Get that intern on the horn. Get the down goes brown intern. This is your first job. That's right. You might have to actually review the film because I don't, you know, as somebody who spends a lot of time digging through stats, they typically don't even

necessarily note the backup goldhead. Yeah. So I don't know. We have to dig into that. You know what? That's a good point. I think NHL.com some, no, you know what it is? the official game sheets and the NHL game notes, they will say, I think for goalies, it'll say, I think it'll say DNP for them, and that means that they dressed but didn't play, I think. But yeah, you would have to go through.

So there you go. That's the first intern assignment. You're going to have to go through every game sheet. Keep track and then report back. Yeah, report back to us next week. All right. Hey, listen, this was a lot of fun. The hour and change flew by.

Thanks for doing this. and we'll get you again next Thursday. Sounds good. All righty. Thanks, everybody for joining us for this Thursday edition of The Athletic Hockey Show. Like I said,

we'll get you again next week. You can always leave us a voicemail. We love those two phone calls that we got this week from Billy and Matt. So if you want to drop us a voicemail, you can certainly do that at 845, 445, 8459, or email us any question you have. To The Athletic Hockey Show at gmail.com.

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