The Athletic Hockey Show - Alexis Lafrenière is a healthy scratch for the Rangers, Rob Rossi on concerns about the Penguins, and another draft goes perfectly fine

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

In the last Thriday episode of 2022, Hailey and Sean discuss the Rangers' move to scratch Alexis Lafrenière. Then, Rob Rossi joins the show to discuss if there should be worries about the Pittsburgh Penguins, and the upcoming Winter Classic. To wrap up, as is tradition, a new draft occurs, and as you can expect, it goes well and no one yells at any point whatsoever.Save on a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/hockeyshowSubscribe to The Athletic Hockey Show on YouTube: http://youtube.com/@theathletichockeyshow Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. All right, welcome back, everybody, to another episode of The Athletic Hockey Show. It's Haley, Shandhi, and Shon Jintilly. It's Friday. It's the last show of 2022. Is it the last athletic hockey show period, 2022? I mean, are Maxie and Pranman, Michael Rogue and post on Friday as well. But who's to say?

Are Max and Pranman going to? have enough time in Moncton or wherever they are, which by the way, I'm completely... Is Max in Moncton? No. Oh. But after Team USA's result against Slovakia today, I'm officially done paying attention to the... Here over the World Juniors. Check back in a few days. We'll see how we're going.

But until I've cut the cord, yes. Yeah, I feel... So I've been backfilling on the morning show on Sportsnet here this week. and I've never talked about the World Juniors more in my life. It's like every day I have to come up with something new to say about Connor Bardard. So if you want to talk about the World Juniors, listen to Corey Pranman's show because I'm not doing it here today. All I'll say is this, is that I really try not to rip on Canada for the entire process, right? I know everyone's like, okay, this is, everyone says we're not going to criticize these kids because they're kids.

blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, there's a, I have a compulsion to make fun of the amount that Canada cares about this tournament. Right. And then I remember, and then I remember that the NCAA basketball tournament exists, and then March Badness exists. And it's only, it's only barely different. And I realize that I have no room to talk, honestly. Yeah. Are you a psycho in March?

I mean, it's all I do for a couple weeks, for sure. I mean, the first weekend of the NCAA tournament is... Madness. It's one of the best the year. One would say. I used to fake sick as a kid on those days, and I did for years. Do you think your family actually bought that? I definitely got away with it a couple of times.

I definitely got away with a couple times, and then I think my mom just gave up. She just gave up the ghost. She knew that it was happening. I don't think really cared all that much. But there was a couple years specifically where I, straight up, Ferris Bueller in my way through Thursday and Friday. For anybody listening, it was the year that Bryce Drew hit the shot for Valparaiso

against Ole Miss at the buzzer. I watched that from the couch in my mother's house while pretending to be sick. Greatest day in my life. That's nice. I forgot what I was talking about now. You were talking about how you had to pretend you knew what you were talking about.

No, no. I said I'd had to come up with like something new to say about Conradard every day, not like pull something out of a hat. Because that's been, he's been like the story of the tournament before the tournament during. I have a question. Who's Connor Bedard?

Generational talent. He scored seven points. He scored seven points, which ties a world junior championship record for Canada for scoring in a single game. He's only two goals short of a record for the most goals at the world. Junior's ever. Jordan Eberley currently has that record with 14 goals in his world junior career. Connor Bardard, who is 17, has 12.

He was on fire for Canada on Wednesday, and Canada is playing again on Thursday. But we're not going to talk about that because that's scoring Conman's job. This sounds like a player we should watch, maybe, pay attention to. Who knows what he could become? He'll be the 20th generational player that's somehow playing in the NHL next year. That's not the same. think that gets thrown around a lot and like Connor Bred is not the same as Shane Wright. He's not the same as Alexei Lafranier.

It's the values, it devalues calling Shane Wright and Alexei Lafranier and all these guys, generational players, devalues the actual generational players, which is, which is kind of. Who are the generational players in your opinion that are in the NHL right now who actually deserved that designation? Crosby, McDavid, possibly McKinnon, possibly Austin Matthews, Kail McCarr, and Connor honor Bredard whenever he gets. That's it. Ovechkin wasn't generational? Ovechkin, yes.

I think that's fair. Like cane or taves? No. No? No. Just really, really good. Really, really good. First ballot hall of femur. They're on our silly little list they were doing for a reason. Lindros would have been there if he would have been healthy, if he would have stayed healthy. But he misses out too. It's not generational. If you have if you're if you have eight of that,

at any given time playing the league. Sorry. Yeah. It gets thrown around pretty easily. Which brings us. Moving on to one of the players we just talked about. Kind of the big story of the day is Alexei Lafranier. He was dropped down to the fourth line for the New York Rangers.

And then everyone kind of started being like, okay, what's going on? This guy's on the fourth line now. And then this afternoon, he is a healthy scratch for the New York Rangers. This is kind of caused a big thing, obviously, because you've got a first. round pick who's still in his entry-level contract, who has not transitioned to the NHL as planned or as projected after he had such a great junior career in the Quebec major junior league and a great world junior career. When you see that Alexei Lafrenier is a healthy scratch and you see the context of what's going on with the New York Rangers, is this a coach

in Gerard Gallant, whose seat is getting hot and he is doing something desperate to get a result out of his team. I think the only way the Rangers are a true contender is if they have Lafranier clicking in a very real way. And like what is scratching him do to make that better? Great question. Got asked Gerard Galant that.

It's such like, Lexi Lafranier is going to turn into like a very interesting case study of a first round pick and their development and their, you know, transition to the NHL level. I think part of it, and sorry, I know I asked you a question and then I cut you off, but I think part of what Lafranier is battling is that he's now being compared to every other first round pick, and it's like, well, why aren't you doing that? Whereas if he was like the sixth overall pick, this probably isn't a thing that we're talking about,

but that's not the case because that's the plight of the first overall guy, right? It's not and we're also not having that conversation if he doesn't end up on a team as a left wing playing behind Chris Kreider in Artemie Pinaran. It's a huge, to me that is when you look at what this means for player development, when you look at what it means for Alexei Lafranier, if you're trying to diagnose like what is going on here and why we're talking about this again after it seemed like he turned a corner with the postseason that he had and then with maybe the way the Rangers top six was structured this year it seemed like he was going to have an extended you know better opportunity but when

if you want to look at how we got here and this should be this scary thing I think for rangers fans or whoever people who bought stock in alexia lafranier is that there is no easy solution to this and it took a lot of, you know, mismanagement by everybody involved, including the player, to get to this point. Like, this isn't just as simple as Gerard Gallant not playing him enough and not putting them in opportunities. Like, is that the biggest, is that the biggest, you know, the biggest factor here? I certainly think so. I tend to think so. You find a way to put this player in a position to succeed and whatever. I don't think he's gotten enough of that, but he has gotten some.

And he hasn't grabbed onto it. And he hasn't grabbed onto it. And that's what, that to me is the issue, right? It's not, it's isn't just Galant. It's not just Lafranier. It's a bunch of stuff.

Yeah. I think a big problem is, is you watched Alexei Lafranier and Jr. And he was an incredibly, you know, productive, offensive player in the queue. What is he at the NHL level?

Because he's not a center. He's not a high flying, high-skilled left-winger. He's not a highly productive player. He's not a grinded out along the boards like Blake Coleman type or whoever they, you know, he's not some like third-line guy who's going to transition you from defense to offense. Like what is Alexei Lafranier? And I think that's the problem. I don't know if he knows what his identity is at the NHL level. And I think part of that is because he's continually being put on the fourth line, on the third line. He's on the kid line. Oh, now he's on the top line. Like I don't think the Rangers know what they want

Alexei Lafranier to be at the NHL level. And I think that has like seriously impacted his development and the identity. Like obviously I don't know. I've never been in an exit meeting, but I would love to know at the end of last season, what did they sit down and tell Alexei Lafranier to work on? What did they say this is the spot we want you to earn it? Because I know, and I'm just speaking from covering the flames, I know someone like Adam Rozichka, you know, if you're listening to this, he's not anywhere close to the Alexei Lafranier prototype. But Adam Rizekchek, gets sit down at exit meetings, like this is two years ago. And they say there is a spot that you can battle for foresee on this hockey team right now.

And Adam is the guy who's in the American hockey league and he's, you know, a top line center. He's scoring a bunch of goals. He's getting lots of assists. He's like a point producing center at the H.L. And Daryl Sitter sits him down and says Tim and Glenn Godden and Trevor Lewis, like, there's a spot. Trevor Lewis wasn't on the team yet. But it's him and Glenn God. And it's like there's a spot on the fourth line at the center position that you guys can fight for.

And that is what you need to work on becoming. Was Alexi Lafranier told like start being a third line player or we want you to be a top line guy with Panera? And like what, what have they told Alexi Lafranier to be? Because I don't know. Does he know? Because he's been on over the place. And I don't think that's good for a player development. And we're blaming, we're blaming Galant and we're wondering how much Lafranier, you know, bears himself.

I think another big part of this is the Rangers makeup. It's the roster that they have right now. So Chris Jury can wear some of this too where you're like, how about this? There are some teams where Alexei Lafranier is a third-line winger, completely viable given the way that team plays. If you stuck Alexei Lafranier on the Carolina Hurricanes, the Pittsburgh Penguins,

are a team that didn't expect their third line to do the things, that the Rangers do and didn't build out the rest of their roster in the way that the Rangers did, Alexei Lafranier is in a much better spot, an undeniably better spot. And, look, Arthur Staples, by the way, has covered this very well.

Closely and very well and was on it this morning and has been on it the whole time. Because of course, Arthur realizes more than us and more than anybody, you know, how important that player is, I think, for that team's aspirations and future and whatever else. But Arthur's story, which came out before Lafranier was officially scratched,

for a 7 o'clock game in the middle of the day, by the way, which is wild, but that's a whole other discussion. Arthur finished his piece with a quote from a pro scout that he's spoken to. And this is what this guy said about, Alexa Lafranier. He asked to decide what type of player he's going to be.

If he's going to be a guy that's strong down low and takes puck to the net, then that's what he asked to do consistently. I don't feel like he has an identity right now, and I think we saw a bit of it during the playoffs, but then he got away from it. Does that not sound like a coaching issue? Well, that's a little bit of what I said, too. Yes. But at the same time, I can understand this was an Arthur story, too.

That's a two-way street because we know that Gerard Glant did this in the past to light a fire under Lafranier, like, wake him up. You're on the fourth line kid, and then he played a bit better, and then he got moved back the lineup. But like they're still waiting for him to do something more consistently. So I think it's a coaching issue, but I also wonder like, what is Alexei Lafranier doing to get himself elevated back up the lineup? Like I'm sure it's, there's two sides this right. And Arthur said this really well in his piece again. We should have just had Arthur on the show. By the way, we have Rob Rossi coming on the show later. Forgot to promo that. I'm sorry, Rob. We'd rather have Arthur.

We're trying to keep that one to ourselves. Yeah. Arthur says, you know, the expectation goes both ways. So, yeah, sure, Lafranier had every right to expect more opportunity when he came in as the top pick and every right to feel disillusioned that those opportunities haven't presented themselves through his two and a half, two plus years in the organization. But at the same time, the Rangers surely expected a hungrier player who would not be content with those minutes and would do more to. earn a bigger slice of the action. So I think that there, it's like, again, like there's, what's the fix for this?

Like both sides just like doing better. That's, and that's like what I keep coming. That's what I keep coming back to, right? Because like, and you can, it's a weird one. You can put the blame in order, right? You can say like, like, look, I obviously think this to me seems, it's a coach.

Like, to me, the primary, you know, caller. Do you think one of them has to go? That's a great question. It would make the trade deadline a lot, a lot more interesting.

I just don't think you can get rid of Alexei Lafineer right now because that value is bad. So what is the fixed? Selling low on a number one pick. Yeah. And then what is the fix to just get rid of another coach

who you don't think is working well with your young players? Because isn't that kind of what happened with David Quinn? I know there was more than just that, but the fix should be that the Rangers add a forward who's better at,

who's better at playing with Alexei Lafranier. And for the record, too, when we just look at who's on the fourth line, like he's being scratched for Sammy Blay, Jimmy Visi and Johnny Brazinski. The third line right now is, you know, we saw him work with Philippaedal, right? And I think that's sort of...

The kid line. How many headlines have you seen in the last year and a half about the kid lines back and better than ever. I'm over it. It's brutal. It works in spurts.

I don't know. It works in spurts and I think like back to what we're saying. Like it. Yeah, sorry. There's no, there's no button to push because it's something that the player's doing and it's something that the coach is doing and it's something that the front office has chosen to do in terms of the makeup of that team and of that roster. Those aren't bells that are easily unwrong there.

So it worked before, maybe it'll work again, but globally. I think an interesting part of this conversation too is we're seeing how, you know, he's being compared to Tim Stutzler in Ottawa, right? It's like, well, and this was part of the conversation in that draft year. I was still covering the Sends when the Senators had the three and five overall pick. And originally it was this huge disappointment. like the senators lost the lottery, yet they have number three, number five. And I remember writing like if there's a player who could end up being a better NHLer than

Alexei Lafineer, it's Tim Stutzla. And I was writing about, you know, why the send should be drafting Jake Sanderson and people were calling me an idiot. And now Sanderson looks pretty good. So that's worked out quite fine. I do think the element that is lost right now in this like apples to oranges discussion about Alexei Lafranier's production versus Tim Stutzler's production

is the opportunity. I think if Alexi Lafrenier is in Ottawa right now, like he's not on the four, like DJ Smith's not putting him on the fourth line, like, because there was a spot on the top line for Tim Stutz to take. There's nobody else to play in front of him. That goes back to what we talked about before.

Exactly. He joined a team that had, that... It's opportunity where you get drafted into, right? And this was something that came up when I was reporting out my Maddie Baneer's feature that came out at the athletic in a week or so ago. And a big part of that, I was talking to people like, how is Maddie Bineer is able to do this? And one coach said he was like, a lot of its opportunity.

Like, Maddie Baneers gets drafted by a team who doesn't have an opening as a top six center in the NHL or they don't have the patience at the time or the desire to put him in that space, then Maddie Bineers isn't Maddie Baneers right now. And I think that's part of what's happening with Alexei Lafranier. It's exactly what you said, Sean. But I think that element is lost in the conversation of people just being like, well, Tim Stutzla is way better. Look at what he's doing. It's like, yes, but DJ Smith is putting him in the position to succeed. Pierre Dorian is putting him in that position too.

You know, they actively had a plan. Tim Stutzler is going to be in the top nine. He's going to be on the wing first, and then we're going to move him in to be our future number one center of the future. There was a plan in place for Tim Stutzla, and they're executing on it and we're seeing that happen. What was the plan for Lexi Lafranier? If it was, it could have been something similar.

Like he's still playing. That to me is the big problem with, if you want to pin something on him, it said he hasn't been able to transition from the wing to playing down the middle, which way back when 2020, whenever he got drafted, that seemed like that was the course of action.

It hasn't panned out that way. And the Rangers, again, are stuck in a situation where he plays behind two all-stars. Like, like, so that, that's in a, that's the end of the discussion. where I'm like, I get it. What are you going to do?

For sure. You're going to move Chris Kreider away from Mika Zabanajad? No, that's not going to happen. You're going to drop down Artemis Panarin, so he's playing with Philip Heedl and Julian Gautier and whoever. No. No. No, that's also not going to happen.

It's on Lafranier to, like, make an impact in the minutes that he's provided with. But at the same time, you see this and you're just like, uh, something's not working. It all falls back to the fact that the Rangers have X-enact. expectations and those other teams don't. And I know that people thought maybe the Sends could sneaky contend maybe for a bottom one, like whatever. We had hot Pierre summer and everyone,

you know. Pierre Dorian never once said that like now for once Dorian didn't come out and say like the rebuild is over. Like I went back like the Sends didn't seem to say anything about like we are going to make the playoffs this year. So I think that was definitely like a fan expectation. It's just a weird. It's been a weird mix of play.

because you got the criders and the Zabanajads and the Panarians and you have the next layer of young guys. It hasn't quite worked out. You have Igor Sesterkin who came not out of nowhere, but leveled up last year and became the best goal in the league. Did they outkick their coverage last year? Sean, sorry to cut you up. I just feel like I see where you're going with this. Did the Rangers outkick their projections last year and now they're dealing with that leveled up expectation based on what they did last year? They should have lost to Pittsburgh in the first.

first round. Yeah. They almost did, despite the penguins playing an H.L goalie and not a particularly good one at that in Louis de Ming. Oh, God. Oh, chef Louis. I forgot about the beef. That whole beef thing that was like a thing.

I don't, we're not bringing that up. That's, I can't handle talking about. I don't give a shit about his beef and broccoli. I apologize. I don't care. The half life, the half life on that meme was about 90 seconds. I made a joke about it whenever he said that in. I realized that it was going to age like milk.

Crosby gets hurt. Ricard Raquel gets hurt. There's any number of reasons that if the penguins are even at 70%, they beat the Rangers last year, the entire thing takes a different tone. So absolutely. The Rangers are a prisoner of their own expectations right now, and so is Alexei Lafranier. And I think it all comes back to the, to the, to the,

series went over over Pittsburgh. If that doesn't happen, the vibes are much, much different. Yeah. At the end of the day, there are very important parts of this that we're not aware of. Like I said, with the whole Adam Rizhika thing, I'm not saying that the Rangers didn't sit him down and say this is what you need to work on because maybe they did say it and he didn't do it. You know?

Like, we don't know that right now. Like, we don't know if there was a plan that he can't execute on. And I'm sure what's actually happening in reality. is a mix of all of these things that we're talking about. It's the expectation. It's Lafranier falling short of what he should be doing. It's the Rangers falling short of what they should be doing with this pick. And that's what makes this complicated because we're like, yeah, there's a bunch of stuff happening.

We don't know exactly what's gone on, but we can diagnose what we've seen. Right. And it's a bad situation for everybody. Yeah. And we're not sure how they get out of it. Let's move on because as we mentioned in all of that, our 20-minute chat about Alexei Lafranier because there was a lot to get into in that. And I feel like we just talked around in circles and we're just, you know, what's happening with Alexei Lafranier. The Winter Classic is

happening this weekend. Again, this is the last athletic hockey show before 2023. And that is happening on January 2nd. Pittsburgh Penguins, Boston Bruins at Fenway Park 2 o'clock Eastern. We're going to have Rob Rossi join us shortly to, we didn't even really tee up the winter classic. Yeah, because no one cares. It cares. But we talked to. about the penguins. So we're going to do the teeing up right now. Like we're going to, the Winter Classic is happening.

Sean, how many of these have you covered because they're like seemingly always in Pittsburgh or involving the penguins? There's only been one in Pittsburgh. There's been stadiums. There was one in Buffalo. There's been stadium series.

A couple of stadiums series games in Pittsburgh. One at Heinz Field, which I said involving the penguins. How many of these things have you done? Involving the penguins, three. Yeah. And I've done a couple winter classics that didn't involve the penguins, including the one in, in Arbor with the wings and the maple leaves.

That was the first one, actually. It actually, yeah, it was cool. They caught in a snowstorm. Are you over it? It wasn't good. We over what? Absolutely. Yeah, I don't care.

Yeah, like they don't have the same sparkle. I remember the very first one that went like penguins in Buffalo. They had the baby blues, the HBO, like 24-7 thing. I was like, all that's so cool, like really fun, docu-series. I don't know. And then they were super fun. And at what point did it just start to, I don't care about this anymore for you?

I think it was probably the same time for everybody. I think around the time they moved specifically into standard NFL stadiums is when I was like, all right. Yeah. This maybe doesn't have the same cachet that it did. That being said, like keep doing it. Like do it forever. Do it every single year.

Those events are still awesome for the cities where they're held. They're awesome for the fan bases that are involved with them. It's a great, it is. It's a legitimately fun experience in and around the stadium. Like every fan base should get to experience it, not just the penguins, the Blackhawks and the Bruins and the Flyers. Yeah. It inevitably seem like every other year one of them is involved.

But as a national event as something that is anything but like, oh, yeah, they're doing that again, sort of. Yeah, it's on the calendar. Yeah. I can tell you this. And part of this is maybe self-selective because I was in college and living in Pittsburgh whenever the first one happened with Buffalo and all that. That was a big deal.

That was a big deal for a while. It seemed like it pierced through in a way to American audiences that like a regular season hockey game never, ever, ever could. frankly, most, you know, playoff games, right? That was a thing. It got mainstream coverage. It was, you know, on NBC. People seemed like they enjoyed it, you know, and people tuned in that otherwise wouldn't pay attention

to the National Hockey League. But we're past that. Right. The TB ratings say so. There's something unquantifiable to that, you know, I think we're kind of speaking to here. Yeah, I don't care. But congratulations to all the nine-year-olds

who are going to watch the Bruins play the Penguins in Fenway Park, like, they're going to have the time of their lives. But personally, I don't, I don't give a shit. I think when I first saw that it was Penguin's Bruins at Fenway Park, it's like, that would be a cool experience to go to as a fan. Like, even for myself, it was like, I would, like, if I didn't have to work, if I didn't have to be in, like, my city and work stuff, I would buy tickets to that. That looks like it would be cool.

Yeah. And again, I don't hype them up as much. Like I'm not a big, holy crap, it's winter classic day. It's not like an event for me anymore. But I'm also not one of the ones who's going to say like enough is enough with these. I don't care. Because whatever's good for the business is fine. Keep whatever.

Do it for the fans. If you lived in Alston or whatever. Yeah. Brookline, you could, you'd be like, oh, sweet. I'm going to go watch a hockey game at Fenway Park. But beyond that, I mean, there's not. I don't think there's much of a draw. One of my favorite outdoor game moments.

It wasn't a winter classic, but it was Brady Kachuk, and I might have to give up my passport for this, but Brady Kachuk scoring the winner against Canada outside in Buffalo. That was cool. That, like, outdoor. What's better than that? What's better than that? How about that? That outdoor game was cool.

The pictures of Brady, like arms raised, it's snowing. They've got the USA jerseys that are, like, the Bills jerseys. He's like, that whole thing was like just really cool. I was a big fan of that moment. Remarkable moment for anybody who is there. But, you know, again, these are niche or niche events. Yeah. Other favorite outdoor moments.

Again, we pre-recorded with Rob and one of the things that we talked about after with Danielle, our producer, who abandoned us for weeks, by the way, on her nice vacation. She's back. Welcome back. I mean, I love you guys, but I do it again. second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So one of the moments Danielle reminded us of is, like, one of the hilarious ones because

it was the stars predators at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. And that's like one of the most attended games in league history. And it's Corey Perry getting kicked out of the game and having to like do that whole walk in front of like 80 something thousand fans. You're like the first three, five minutes, three to five minutes, right? Yeah, like immediate, like you're done. And he, you know, at least he got to enjoy the atmosphere on that walk. So that's our tee up of the winter classic.

I hope it'll be a good game. My favorite, my favorite moment was in Ann Arbor when I had to, I was late and I had to park on someone's lawn and run to run to the press bugs. Oh dear. Why didn't you plan ahead better to get there on time to get a parking spot? Because I'm irresponsible. That's why. Sounds like it. I was even worse back then. Yeah, sounds like it.

So that's our T-Up of the Winter Classic as the event. Hopefully it's going to be a good game. The Penguins, they were number five on the power rankings last week, yet they've lost a couple games in OT. They've blown a couple leads and things just feel a little bit more unsettling around a team that is what, six two and two in their last 10? Yeah, weird stuff happens when you blow a four-nine week. People start to feel less positively about what's

going on with you, huh? Yeah. So we're going to talk about the Pittsburgh Penguins next with Robert Rossi. It's actually Roberto. Big day in the show's history. Rob Rossi making his Friday debut. Hey, buddy. How are we doing? I couldn't be better if you smack me upside the head with an anvil. Do you have an anvil? Yeah, I have anvil next to a stack of dynamite, next to a bucket of black paint that I used to paint, you know, railway interests on the side of cliffs. Yeah, I have the entire roadrunner Wiley Coyote catalog here. Yeah. The Acme assembly kit. Should people be worried about the Pittsburgh Preguins?

Let's start there. Oh, you're not even going to talk about his day. No, because that's going to lead into his day. Because I know how he spent his day because we talk for an hour on the phone. Okay, well, the listeners didn't. It's not their business. Yeah, they don't deserve to know how Rob is doing today. Rob is good.

No, no, no, we don't care about that. The Penguins, let's see. Panic in the streets because they've lost two straight games in regulation. Or no, they didn't even lose two straight in regulation. I'm sorry. They've lost three in a row and one of them have been in regulation and panic in the streets in Pittsburgh. But I actually think there's something to this because they've blown leads in each of their past three games dating back to the hurricanes the day before Christmas. break and they are a team that seems right now to be struggling with its identity.

And they have some warts that there isn't a wart remover for. They are stuck right now with, I mean, okay, so going back to every time Sean and I talk, there's the Casperi-Cappanin problem, which is, which is, he doesn't really fit anywhere on the team and he's making 3.2 million. That is now being compounded by the fact that he almost regularly plays on a line with Jeff Carter who makes 4-something million who's actually worse right now than Capitan. And then you've got the Brian Dumlin situation where he just looks like he's done as a top-end defensive player in this league.

And for a while, he had been playing on a bottom pairing with Jan Ruda. But what happened in this game against the, I don't even remember, oh, the Red Wings, yeah, the epic collapse. Yes. What happened is that became their second unit for some reason. And Jeff Petrie's been out. And Dumlin played 20 minutes and was just utterly exposed in those 20 minutes. legitimately it's it's a bit heartbreaking for me because doomelin has been a great guy to cover

he's a very accountable guy this isn't the case of a guy not working hard enough this is very much a case of a guy who knows he's struggling he just can't do what he used to do which is be a guy that plays with you know a number one or a number two defenseman and sort provides that ideal compliment as a as a skater he's not able to use that leg that's had two surgeries to the ankle the way he used to and so they've got these three problems and there aren't really any fixes because they're so strapped against the cap that they would have to find somebody naive would that be the right nice worry of putting it naive enough to take one of those players in a trade and not give them anything back but

the cap space and Mike Sullivan seems unwilling not to trust Carter or Dumolin in high leverage situations. You know, the example I'll give is he had Carter out there late in the game and in overtime against the Red Wings, which is doing Carter no favors because he just doesn't have he doesn't have the skillset anymore. Right. And he's at least backed off some with Dumlin until the other night. So I think this is a concern. You know, they blew a 4-0 lead to a Red Wings team that hadn't been playing very well. They got blown out on the island. Now, the islanders usually wreck the penguins no matter when they play a couple of times a year. But they also have yet to win a game against Carolina despite playing them close. That was who they lost to right before the

break. It just kind of feels like the penguins are sort of showing, to me anyway, it feels like the Penguins are showing what they can max out as. And it looks like they're going to max out as a team that will contend for a playoff spot and maybe make the playoffs. But it's hard to really see this team as it's assembled advancing. And the whole point allegedly of the offseason was to be more difficult to play against to not be as soft as a team and to be better prepared for a long playoff run. And it's really tough to envision that right now.

Right. Because like, and wasn't part of the off season two, like, you know, keeping the big three together, keeping that window of contention open. But like, did they lose some? I struggle with that because you look at, I don't think there was really anybody in Pittsburgh saying, like, we don't want Malkin and Lattang to come back. Because I don't know if there were really better options on the open market anyways. They weren't. So it's like, I don't know. Like, is this what we expected this season from the Penguins?

I don't know what I expected this season from the penguins because so often they've matched their deficiency. Yeah, it's tough because they very often outperform their regular season. Sorry, I'll just say to Rob, sorry to cut you off. I'll say the reason I bring up bringing back the big three, because I'm sure there's probably people either nationally or from other markets being like, well, this is why you don't bring back the two old guys. Like, I haven't really seen that take out there, but I'm sure there's people questioning, like, would the penguins have been better? or if they went a different direction, and I don't know if they would have been. Well, those people would be wrong and ignorant. Yeah.

And I tend not to listen to the people outside the market talking about the team I cover only because they go on these presumptions. But the truth is Crosby and Malkin haven't missed a game, which is stunning in its own right. But they've been their two best offensive players. Without Crosby, I mean, Sean's going to laugh at this because it seems like I say this every year. You can make a case this year that Crosby's been as valuable to his. team as any player in the league. I'm not saying he's the MVP. I'm just saying without Crosby, I think they are definitely a team that's closer to Baderd watch and they are sort of are they

going to make it because he's been outstanding. I mean, he's been so good that Canada just made him like a Commander Knight Supreme or something. For his contributions to our great nation. Right. So I don't think bringing back to B3 was the problem because they don't really they have options to replace them. But when you bring back those three and Brian Rust and you're committing the building around those guys and Gensel, you have to get the other moves right. And it's looking like extending Jeff Carter, in addition to protecting Jeff Carter and losing O'Shaun, help me out here.

Who did they lose? Well, they traded McCann. Jared McCann. Traded McCann. Thank you, Haley. But who did they actually lose to Seattle? TANF, TANF, yes. So, you know, they protected Jeff Carter, then they extended him almost as a insurance policy and Clayson Malkin Watch.

And it's just, when you're in management, you can't make those mistakes. And they've made like three big ones, probably not feeling Dumolin sooner. You know, they also dealt John Marino, who's hurt now, who was playing some great. hockey in Jersey for Ty Smith, who's back up with a team, but has yet to play a game because of their cap situation. So, I mean, it does seem a little bit like there's a disconnect between Pittsburgh's want to bring back sort of the band and how you supply the band with supporting musicians. And they don't look like when they go against teams that can play with speed and can come at you with speed like Carolina does, right?

Or Detroit. Detroit speed really prevented the penguins from sort of entering the zone or possessing the puck at times during that game. And then when they play a team with any sort of systemic consistency, they struggle. Now that said, they're on this like, what, 0-1 and 2 stretch. But before that, they were like 12 to and 0. So with Pittsburgh, it's always about what are they going to do in the, sorry, what is it going to do in the playoffs? But I think one of the big problems that the penguins are facing now is this probably is the deepest division in terms of playoff contenders in the NHL. Yeah.

And if they go on another bad run, they might not be able to dig themselves out of that hole. And if nothing else, I feel like what the last few games have been, it's just a red flag for, playoff performance because the hurricanes have come up a couple times here in the fact that they just can't they they they can't close them out we've seen it in multiple different ways we saw it again you know that's the team if you're talking about a team that plays with speed and they plays with you know systemic consistency like that's like flashing lights and you know cartoon arrows pointing at the caroline hurricanes like that's what they that's what they do they you know they have they have a system that they stick to and they play it well and it's worked against the penguins like

time after time after time right but i i don't you know i i look when i look at them it's tough to figure out what the single biggest problem is and i think that's always that should always scare teams when you're like i something's not right here but i can't say definitively like what the number one thing is right because you can talk about doom like doom like dum got old overnight and you know, this and that, like, what, but there's no, you know, big red button to push to fix it either. And I think that's, that's something that should make people nervous when they, when they, when they watch this team. Yeah, they're a J-lett this year. They're just like every team that isn't one of those teams, you know?

And it's, I don't think, I think because in the past they've had management make moves that have sort of seemingly improved them, there's no room to make those. moves this year. And so they basically have to find these things from within. And it just doesn't look like they can do that. Again, because some of these deficiencies, you just can't mask. I mean, they need a third center and they need a third line winger to go with. So does every other team. Yes. You know, they're not deep enough on defense because of their third pairing. And, you know, La Tang, who now dealing with a lower body injury, just came back from the stroke. And to be candid, he hasn't really played well all season. And I think a lot of us sort of now look back at that and go, well, what might he have been dealing with that we don't know about? But, you know, I just go back to,

it's harder for Crosby and Malkin to take over games. And even when they do, there's fewer guys that seem to be able to sort of help them. And at this point in their career, I don't know that you can expect Crosby and Malkin to each account for like a plus 15 in, you know, difference making points. Whatever that stat is that a player, you know, Crosby's probably, having Crosby on your team is probably good for, you know, 10 more points than you would in a normal year. Having Malkins probably anywhere from five to seven, right? And that's 17 points that you would get during a regular season. I just don't think you can expect them to be at that level. So if that 17 points becomes like nine,

is that going to be enough for the penguins to get into the playoffs? And if they get into the playoffs, are they just going to be fodder for Carolina? I was talking with Jordan Stahl after the Carolina game in Pittsburgh before Christmas break. And you just got a sense that they know they can beat the penguins, whereas you get a sense from the penguins that they think they might be able to find a way to win against Carolina.

And that's a bit jarring for me because I'm used to the penguins being that team that knows they can sort of turn it on at any point. I think that's the thing this year that's missing, Sean. There's not that button, right? There's not that switch that they can flip. Is there a chance that Dumlin sits? I know the cap situation is ugly, but Ty Smith, it's called up a couple days ago, doesn't play.

He's a left side guy. Like, how close do you think Mike Sullivan is to making a decision that probably, you know, he makes him sick? So when I was young, there was this show called Save by the Bell.

And it had... Sure. I've heard of this. Yeah, that little old show. And it had this character, Kelly Kapowski, was played by Tiffany Ambrithesis. And I had such a crush on Tiffany Amber Thice right. Calm down over there, man. Right. And I wrote the producers when I was like in grade school. I wrote a letter because I wanted to meet Tiffany Amber Theson, right? Oh, wrong. 24.

Oh, no. Yeah, I was, I was I was I was 32. But okay. But my point is there was a chance that that that letter would find her and she would respond and we would meet and form a connection. But it wasn't a real Sure. Okay. So this is where we're going. Anything is possible. Not everything is likely. Yes. I would put the chances of Mike Sullivan sitting Dumlin below the chance of me meeting Tiffany and Bernson at that point. Maybe you got returned to send it on that. Maybe she never got the letter. They're still. Well, that's what I tell myself. That's what I tell myself.

But based off my success record with letters, I don't, or emails or phone calls, I wouldn't say. But that's another podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, you bring a very important point. Who are the top five, the top five Mike Sullivan guys? And we can't, not the stars, like, you don't count say it, you don't care, whatever. Yeah. Who's in that group where it's like you just, you're like it would made him, it would make them physically sick to move out of the lineup.

over the years because he's got those guys. Yeah, like not on the active roster like anyone that's been on the Penguins with Mike Sullivan. Anyone? Okay. Well, Dumlin would be on the list. I would say Connor Sherry or Sherry, whichever we would say. Definitely would be on that list.

We know Ryan Reeves is not on that list. Definitely. He's definitely not on that list. Yeah. Boy, that's a really good question. Top five Mike Sullivan dies. Sherry is a great one. Why you think of why you think of the next one?

Well, one, I think it's because Sherry married his niece. So that didn't hurt. Oh, right? Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving would be awkward. Yeah. But I could never see him. I guess we think of him now as a star, but I still think of him as a guy who sort of played

up in the lineup. But Brian Rust is definitely one of those guys. I was convinced that Brian Russ was going to be an Olympian just because of Mike Sullivan. You were. You were. I wrote it. Yeah. There's a set of projections on the site. Sounds like me with the 2020 Olympic team with Brian Rust on it. Yeah. I will say not in terms of dressing, but in terms of being on the roster, Chad Rueedle will always be on this roster as long as Mike Sullivan is here. He's an honest player. Rudy's, Rudy's an honest player.

He doesn't, he doesn't cheat anything. That gives me four, and I should throw Phil Kessel on there just as like a gag. But, you know, Jeff Carter might be playing his way onto that list. He's enamored with Jeff. I often think that Mike speaks of Jeff the way I spoke of Tiffany Amherthese. So that's the perfect comparable then. Those are the anti-usorikola All-Stars. I made the mistake of asking Mike about Yusoreko one time doing training camp.

I thought it went even worse than I expected it was going to. It's like asking Darrell Sutter about literally any prospect who has no shot at making the team. It's like don't. Like what is the point? What are you doing? Just if Daryl Sutter's in a bad mood, ask about Trevor Lewis. Ask about Trevor Lewis. Yeah.

That was my goal. I forgot the all-timer. I forgot the all-timer. I forgot. I'm sorry, kids. It's Matt Murray. I mean, right until the bitter end, Matt Murray playing like 880 hot.

Didn't Sean write a column about, like, how Mike Sullivan needs to, like, be Mike Sullivan with Matt Murray? I believe so. I think probably. It's just like, Mike Sullivan's always a guy who, like, isn't afraid to make those decisions. Like, now do it. That was the last, that wasn't even the last one.

That was the second to last year. That was in the bubble. Yeah. That was in the bubble when when... I was like, come on, Mike Sullivan. Do the Mike Sullivan thing. That wasn't a bubble when Sullivan's, Sullivan's loyalty to Murray was really driving people crazy and probably came back to bite. We need to talk about Sullivan's mustache.

Have you guys seen the mustache? No, but I heard about Crosby's mustache. It's a cop. It's a cop mustache in a way that Cid's wasn't. It wasn't like a big deal when Cid finally shaved. I saw like tweets about it. Like Sidney Crosby hath shaved thy mustache. Sid looked eerily similar to 80s-era Freddie Mercury with his mustache towards the end.

There were lots of comparisons being drawn, yes. Have you guys, did you ask him why he shaved it? Can we break news here? I did not. You know, my theory on Sydney's facial hair is I don't care. It took him so long in his career to be able to grow facial hair, but I just figured now that he can, he can do whatever he wants. Do whatever you want, buddy. Yeah. Yeah. The only time I ever asked players about their facial hair in Movember was like when I was in Ottawa on my first. year and it was guys like Brady Kachuk and Josh Norris who are 21 Thomas Shabbat and like there's nothing there and then meanwhile Dylan DeMello it's like November 2nd and he's got this like huge cop mustache and like he gets the best mustache in November every year and then Brady's still there

with like I'm working my way over every time every time the facial discussion like or the playoff beard you know discussion takes place or whatever I think of Ruslan Fedotenko who could not And he swore, and I heard him do it multiple times. He swore it was because he grew up like down the road from Chernobyl and that radiation stopped him from being able to grow up playoff beer. Yeah. So I saw him flip out of the poor guy. Because they were like laughing at him.

He flipped out of the reporter once doing it. Yeah. No, because they wrote it. They wrote that he wouldn't talk about growing facial hair. And he came out of the locker room after the story of fear. You don't know my life. And he's all the reporter. And basically that was it.

Like he just was screaming Chernobyl. Like, it just walked out of the plant. Like, Chernobyl! My God. So. Yeah. Curse that plant. You know, looking at this Penguins team and looking at how, like, they're a tier below,

I think the Eastern Conference contenders. And the East is going to be a dog fight to come out of when you think of just like the top, top teams in the Eastern Conference, if whether you're looking at, like, like Carolina, Boston, Tampa, you throw Toronto in the mix. I know some people don't want to do that, like Sean. But like it's going to be tough to come out of the east. Yeah. There we go, buddy.

You got my back. Anyways, the point is, the point is, I don't think a lot of people are putting the penguins in the conversation as a team that could realistically come out of the Eastern Conference. So how does that adjust the mindset coming into the trade deadline for a team that has Sydney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin still playing really? well. Ideally, you always want to be looking to add when you have guys like that who are who are playing the way that they are. But at the same time, wouldn't you also like to maybe hold some of your assets and hold some of the cards to chess for a year when you are in that conversation? Like, I think the penguins are going to be a really interesting case study at this deadline because then there's also the cap space situation to look at too. They only have,

they have 2.7 million projected cap space at the deadline. So even if they were to do something, they can't do a whole lot. So is this a year where we maybe see the penguins just kind of Sit tight. And it's that number, that number is like right now counting LTIR. Counting LTIR, which I don't think is going to be in play for them because they expect him back before that. Yeah. So that's the deadline cap projection on cat friendly as of December 29th. So that's obviously going to change because cap's base accrual and LTIR considerations.

Yeah. It's a great question because they don't really have any assets to move. unless they I mean they don't have any sort of guys in the system that other teams would be clamoring for and the cap space is such that it prevents them from doing anything that

isn't the you won't trade our bad player for your bad player and hope it works compounding that is this has been a management team with Ryan Burke and Ron Hextall that's been kind of very slow to react they

don't really seem to make moves until the absolute last minute. Carter and Raquel were both, you know, deadline day acquisitions. And that was back when the penguins had more cap space to be able to move. And they don't want to trade picks. So I think where it puts the penguins. Yeah. I think where it puts them and this is a really good question to address, I think where it puts them is, is they need to hope they can get in and get the favorable matchup. and that somebody else does some of the heavy lifting for them. Now, here's the thing.

That does happen more often than we think in the NHL. Yeah, absolutely. Other than last year, in the Stanley Cup final, I would argue that we had had a run where we had like one team we expected to be in the final facing off against the team that we didn't. And I could see a situation where, if, say, the penguins were like in the West, that could happen. But in this East, I just don't see how they ultimately, like, they might be able to win a round if they get, you know, somebody like, I'll give you a team that they could beat in a seven game series. It's the Rangers.

Like that's a, that's a team they could beat if they're healthy in a seven game series. But if they draw one of those wild cards and would have to play Boston or Carolina, I'm not sure they'd win. game. Yeah. I mean, I'm expecting them to go to Boston at Fenway Park and have unspeakable things done to them. That's a very professional segue into our winter classic discussion.

Now, I would like to rank the Pittsburgh Penguins' Winter Classic jerseys. Okay. Rob doesn't give a shit about jerseys. Okay, well, he just said that he was game for it, so maybe he cares to talk to me about them. You two are fun. The penguin with the scarf is Number one.

The skating penguin with scarf? No, she's talking about the dark blue ones that almost got... The darker blue one with the stripes. That almost got Sid killed. Yes. I apologize to Sidney Crosby, but that's the cutest penguin on the jersey. And then the baby blue jersey. I like the Purdue jerseys.

The ones they're wearing in Boston in a couple of years. The ones that might be third. I would go, of all their outdoor jerseys, I would go... The baby blues are pretty iconic, especially like the... Yeah. pictures from Buffalo. Yeah, I would go the baby blue also, because that's one of Crosby's signature moments, too, scoring that goal against Ryan Miller.

So I would go that one. I have one of those jerseys. You do? Yes. Okay. With Crosby on it? Yes, I have, yes. I have two Sydney Crosby Winter Classic jerseys from my childhood because I am very youthful.

It's not. And I got the baby blue one, and I won. It wore it to a game at Bellin Arena in 2009. That's nice. It's always nice to hear that, well, I was like five or six years into the feed at that point. You were attending game eating popcorn and stuff. Anyways. From an aesthetic standpoint, I would go baby blues.

Then I would go the black ones they wore in Philadelphia. I thought those were really sharp. That's an outdoor game one, but doesn't count as winter classic. So can we count that one? No. No? Yes. No, we can't count.

No, okay. So just the three winter classic ones. Yes. Okay. I would go baby blues, the Purdue's, and then the dark blues. I have to knock the dark blues for this reason. They looked a lot better when they were in daylight, not at night when they wore them. They kind of didn't look great in the setting.

Now, that's it. I'm colorblind, so maybe take everything I say with the green of salt. But if I started with that, I would have moved on. I thought they were orange. Yeah. I love the orange jerseys. Anyway, Sean is like a hockey question. The worst ones, not really.

The worst ones were the yellow ones they wore at Heinzfeld. Those were ridiculous. Yeah, those were pretty bad. They're almost as bad as the current reverse retro jerseys. The Robo Penguin? They've screwed up. No, no, I'm not knocking. I'm not knocking the logo.

Everyone thinks I'm knocking the logo. Oh, I know. They screwed it up. They screwed it up. They screwed it up. yolks were poignant in the 90s. Everything about it was, the whole time I was looking at,

like, the first, like, the first view I had of them, I was like, something's not right here. And I'm all the way out. They all look different when you see them on the full kit on the ice. Like, the ones that I liked the best or maybe hated when we were just looking at the pictures, changes. Anyways, so you expect the winter classic to go poorly? I do, but let me give you one more piece of scoop here

on this jersey that they're running for the winter classic. So their backup goalie Casey to Smith has gone all in with like a specialized helmet, specialized gear. He's even got like the cream colored gear. Tristan Jari is like having none of it. Like he's been emphatic like I'm going with the gear that I wear. Because he knows he has to play. Yeah. Right. Right. At least Casey to Smith will look cool on the bench. Yes. Where nobody will be able to see any of the cool things he's done to his pads or anything. But yeah, Tristan Jari's having none of it. Or he has to come in and is trying to, you know, play a game in stiff pads against the Bruins and, you know, 25.

He has something to play. Do you remember who played in goal for the Penguins for the first winter classic game? Ty Conklin. Yep. Yep. Who? Give me a hard one next time, dude. Ty Conchlin.

Salvage that game. Yes, he did. That's it. We've kept you for a half hour. Thanks for being here, buddy. What's the prediction for Boston before we let you go? How's that week and how's the next week I'm going to go for you personally? I kind of want to go.

Should I get tickets? Nope. Okay. You're thinking a little late on this here. I'm going to drive to Boston tomorrow. I have a 6.30 a.m. flight on New Year's Day to get there in the rain where we don't even know if they're going to be able to practice outdoors because it's going to rain so much. So I'll be very cheery and positive.

for the day before. Yes. And then the day of the classic, I'm sure I'll be ruining it. This will be my sixth out door game. Jesus Christ, dude. Yeah, yeah. Does it lose it sparkle?

Yeah. Like, are you over this shit? Like, you see the thing that it's like, the penguins are announced to be in the winter classic, and you're just like, ah! Yeah, the only good thing about this one is it's not in Pittsburgh. Yeah. When it's the home team, you have to do a lot more.

But this one will be interesting because wouldn't it be fitting if the Bruins first regulation home loss was outside if that's what ended the streak? Yeah. They're going to try to get that. That's not going to count. Yeah. I'm kind of hoping that the Bruins don't lose in regulation at home all year except for this game. Could they break the attendance record for that game?

No. You don't think it's going to like, not like the record. record, but like the outdoor game in Dallas a couple years ago. Oh my God, no way. That's what I'm saying. Like, what's going to be the capacity at Fenway for this game? I think it's going to be like 40. 42 they said maybe.

40 or something like that. The one in Pittsburgh. Never mind. The one in Dallas was like 80,000. Dallas. That was a stupid question. Danielle, cut this one out. Cotton bowl game was huge.

And then the one in Michigan Stadium was huge. Okay, never mind. by one next year. Then one next year will be ginormous. I don't even know. Where's that again? Well, the rumor is it's going to be Seattle versus Vegas in Seattle at the home of the 12th man. I'm down for that.

That's the rumor. I am the new crack and be reported. I was going to say you should get to go to that one because of the yeoman's duty. You and Lazarus and Scott Power should have to go, should get to go to that one if you want because you've had to watch the teams you cover playing. fucking eight of these things over the last Yeah, we always say when the NHL needs a hit, it's just like Savage the markets of Boston, Chicago, or Pittsburgh

or Philadelphia, that's what they do. Well, Winter Classic on January 2nd, get psyched, everybody. Everyone's very excited. Enjoy watching it. Thanks, Rob. Hey, we'll have a live blog going, so be sure to check out the athletic live blog. Oh, yeah, I'm live blogging it. Gross, me too.

So am I. We'll get to see each other again. Oh, great. Can't wait. Oh. You used to be one of my favorites. I'm not so sure after this podcast. I'm a lot crankier once you get to know me. Yeah.

Maybe I shouldn't get to know you. I'm a lot nicer at arm's length. Bye, Rob. Hi, bye. All right. It's always nice to hear from Rob Rossi. There were a couple points in that conversation where I was like, you guys are talking about stuff. That's very local Pittsburgh.

What are you going to do? Cut that out of the podcast. This is Dormont and Greenfield getting together, folks. Yeah. So what we want to do in this third segment, sometimes we do a draft, sometimes we just read comments, sometimes we talk about something important. Other times we don't know, we fly but the seat of our pants. Today we actually have a plan. So this came up on Twitter over this week.

So this was from the dropping the gloves podcast with John Scott. and this caused to stir in the hockey world. So this graphic, this tweet went up, and it was from John Scott, Connor McDavid is the best player in the world, but if I'm building a playoff team right now, he is not in my top five picks. And this turned into a big thing

of everyone saying like, this is a terrible take and other people looking at, okay, then who is going to be, if you're building a roster right now, who are you taking? So we are going to do that. We are going to build...

The point in this, by the way, to win right now, to win a playoff series. We were playing under John Scott rules. We were building a team that's designed to win a playoff series right now. Yes, I was getting to that. So we are going to build rosters from scratch. And the point is not to like start a team from scratch to contend for whatever. Like we're not picking.

We did this at the athletic before, right? We did the everything draft where we pick the city we live in and who's our GM and who's our owner. then this is the organization. We are going five rounds, five players. We're building the starting lineup for our playoff team for 2020, 23. Three forwards, two D1 goalie. A sustainable franchise. This isn't like, let's come out of this with a team that's set the contend for 15 years.

This is like, I want to win a series that starts tomorrow. Yep. So that's our activity today. That's our draft. As always, Danielle is going to judge it. And we will see if I can, you know, keep my shit together and not, you know, panic pick whatever candies I did last time we did this. And, you know, I will probably be fine as long as Sean doesn't start yelling at me. Just don't do anything that deserves to get yelled at, I think, is probably...

Which is what? Take my time to make an educated selection in the candy draft? No, it's to take your time to make a dog shit pick, which is what the problem was. You yelled at me enough that I forgot that the Kit Kat existed. All on the strategy. It's not you win. Sean yelled at me before we started recording. So I, too, am not going to select Connor McDavid for the first five rounds because he scared me so much. So we did rock paper scissors before to see you get the first overall pick.

That is me. I won the rock paper scissors. I think before we start this, can we just like have the quick conversation? Like, if either of us got the first overall pick, we're talking. taking McDavid, right? You don't know that. Sean, but I'm asking you. Yeah, I would take Connor McDavid.

Come on. Come on. I think we're just like galaxy braining things to suggest like, you know, I'm not going to take. I'm not galaxy braining. Shit. I'm taking Connor McDavid. He dragged that team to, you know, a couple of playoffs series wins last season. That should have been the, you know, it should have been it.

It wasn't for some people for whatever reason. Yes. And those are the people who are galaxy-braining the conversation to say, like, well, actually, I think I would like somebody who is maybe a bit better on the defensive end of the puck, like Nikita Kutrov. It's always like, that's like a pet peeve of mine that I have, by the way. When people are like, do we underrate like, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, we don't do anything. No. No.

Leave me out of that narrative. I have nothing to do with this. Yeah. So let's start, round one, pick number one, Haley Salvin selects. Connor McDavid. Wow. He's good. Yeah.

But are we sure he's good? Are we sure he's good? Is he good defensively? That's the question that we're doing. I don't give a shit. That's why you draft defensemen. Yeah, and that's why I am drafting a defenseman. I'm going Cal McCar.

Okay. Win a playoff series with a dude who won the cons of my last season. Sounds good to me. Yeah, makes sense to me. I'm going awesome Matthews. Yeah, that's true. He does have a long. history of playoff success.

Shut up. Sydney Crosby. Okay. Still pretty good. Being in a league in five on five points last I checked. I'm adding the old man for one last run. Okay. If we select these people, are they, like, healthy forever?

Yeah. Or do they get hurt? Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay, so we're round three. We'll cut out these. breaks. We?

Danielle. I'm going to double them. So this is where I was thinking, like, if I want to win right now, give me Adam Fox. He's pretty good. Norris trophy winner right now, I think. I don't know if that's going to last. Okay.

Because I can't say that. I have killed McCarr. Come on. Yeah, for sure. My next pick is Patrice Bergeron. Okay. Again, old. Still very good.

I can fill up the rest of my roster with some solid entry-level contracts. Okay. I'm loading up, though. Mm-hmm. I think this is like almost the point of where you guys were on like the player tiers last year, and you started to like debate certain guys who were in that elite tier being like, okay, where do they go? I have a strategy. I know.

I thought I did too and then I panicked. Can't speak that for anybody. I have panicked. This is right around the time where you. drafted pixie sticks or whatever. This is where, this is right when I drafted like Popeye's candy cigarettes. This is where she goes to Phil Castle right now. This is where I like, you know, go rogue and go like,

Dasolevsky, Matt Murray. No, when you just, when you refuse to draft, when you, you were just, with the Kenya draft, you were just refusing. It was like, like, minutes had passed. Just pick, pick something. Okay, but now I'm like, do I take three centers and just, put them all on the same line? This is something you should have thought about before the draft began.

Well, is this just a top line or is this our first five players? This is your first line. Can Matthews and McDavid play together? Probably not. But guess what? They are. So pick someone else. No regrets, Haley.

I don't give a shit. These are two really good players. I got three good players. Um, everyone's a center. So pick someone who isn't. That's the same. That's the same. Um, um, I'll go Kutrov.

I'll get Kutrov. I'll get Kutrov, even though I want Drysaitel, but I'll go Kutrov, it's fine. Shit. Tyson Barry, too, is your next defenseman? Brad Marshand. I win. Oh, you don't?

You're old. Don't care. The future is now, old man. That will just goetrop. Is somebody going to have to play on their off-wing? Who even knows? I don't care. They'll figure it out.

They're good enough. Oh, my God. You realize that you're an American and you just pulled the team candidate gold medal winning line, right? You're not allowed to do that. I'm trying to win. I'm allowed to do whatever I want. This is my team.

Do you honestly think that Patrice Bergeron can play defense against McDavid, Matthews, and Kutrov, and Adam Fox? Yes. You fool. He's one man. No, he's not. He's playing with Cindy Crosby and Brad Marchand. I don't like this game anymore. Yeah, because you're losing.

That's why. I don't think that it's true. Make your next pick. You're just trying to fluster me into selecting Tyson Barry. Oh, darn out nurse. I love the Oilers. I think they're good. That's the team I want to build around for the playoffs.

I have one Oilers player on here. Okay. Okay. This is unbelievable. Who's good? Who's good? Who's good? This is good in the NHL right now.

Who's good? This is really hard. No, it's not. I need a defenseman. Uh-huh. John. Oh, my God. Was that a John Klingberg?

I just heard. No. No. John Christensen. John Johnston? Johnny Johnston? Jack Johnson. Stop making fun of me.

How did you even have? Oh, man. God about Jack Eichael. I'm almost there. I'm almost there. I've got a couple players I'm debating. This is breathtaking. You should see me try to pick what I want for dinner.

Yeah, I have. It's worse somehow. Okay, fine. I'll go Hampus Lynn home. Because that's what you were trying to do, wasn't it? No. You and your Bruins. Okay, fine.

Maybe not Amphuslin home. No, that's sorry. That's on the board. No. I choose Igor Shisterkin. I don't care about that. I choose Andrei Vasselowski. Mm-hmm.

You think you did something there. No, I didn't. I got the goalie I wanted. This is the exact team that I wanted to build. With the fifth pick, I select Jacob. Slavin. Pair him with Kail McCar. Who's a right side guy?

Slavin, left side guy. I have a group of old dudes who are still pretty good, who have a track record of winning important games, and I have the best goalie on the planet. I win. John Scott vindicated. That's the point of this.

But like the point, I thought the point of this was to see, like, you almost are like going with the John. Scott route of like you're going for guys who can play defense and stuff versus the best player on the board. What are, Haley? So do you agree with John Scott? I'm trying, I'm trying to win the draft and you got, and you got McDavid. Yeah, I do.

I got the best defenseman on earth, the best goaltender on earth, the best defensive defenseman on earth. Igorststirken is not the best goaltender on earth. Yes, he is. Right now, based on how he's playing with the Rangers, right now. In March, in April, I'll take him. And I got Sidney Crosby, Patrice Bergeron, and a guy who was successfully played with both of them on my top line. Because I could not draft Connor McDavid.

That's what my approach turned into. And it's fair. And like, I think it is, it kind of proves both sides of the point, right? You can have McDavid build around them. But if not, you might have to get creative. Yeah. I mean, Hampus Linholm and Jacob Slavin have similar experience. goals against statistics.

So I feel quite comfortable putting him with Adam Fox. Yeah. Hampus Linnell was average for three years before this. Is he going to be average with Adam Fox? Probably not. Exactly. I fucking, I fucked up on Jacob Slavin. Keep the F-bomb in there.

I'm upset. That's why I was like, oh my God, like I know there's something I should be doing here. Sean started yelling at me. Kit Kat pick. Yep. Shit. You guys heard it. I did the like,

failing that you could have drafted McKinn and played him in goal. That might have won over Daniel. Yeah. Could vote on this. We're going to put the team together and send out like a screenshot of this and people can tell us who won. We'll put a poll together. I mean, Sean,

Sean's going to win because his, like, people can actually like imagine what that, that those three forwards are going to look like in that deep air. That's right. I was not prepared. This was my idea. This was your idea. And you took, because I know that so much of this is going to get cut out

that people aren't going to appreciate how long she took in between each of her picks. Probably six or seven times the amount of, the amount of time it's going to take my guess. That's okay. You got McDavid. So I'm going to have a chance. The goal is stuff's a wash.

I'm with you on Vaselowski versus Shostirkin. Yeah. You should sim these games and see who wins. Send them to Dom. I bet I have the best game score. If only hockey were played in spreadsheets. Okay, so who wins? Do you pick Sean?

Just put me out of my misery. I did. I said you would have won if you picked, just picked all centers. Centers are versatile. They can kick out to the wing. Austin Matthews shoots left. Kutrov shoots right. You got Matthews, McDavid, Kutrov top line.

Screw you. Crossby can't touch that. I just spent... Hey, Bergeron, you're old. I just spent like 48 out. People are gonna hate on my team because it's old as shit, but whatever. Yeah, the future is now old, man.

That was my only, like, once I lost, once I lost the draft, but that, but that is true. Like, that's the, that is the, you know, the process. If you, it's, if you get McDavid great, if you don't, you have to come up with a plan. And once I realized that I wasn't going to be able to pick, am I to come up with a plan? And Kutrov shoots left, excuse me, before anyone screams at me.

But he is a right winger. So don't yell at me. I know. Okay. I think this would be fun. We'll go to Twitter because I don't believe, Danielle. I can't believe she did this to me again. I'm sorry, Haley.

For nothing. Yeah. I apologize for nothing. Yeah. Good. Well, that's it for today. I feel like that didn't really prove a point because Sean won and he didn't pick McDavid. Yeah.

So John Scott vindicated, baby. Yeah, congratulations to John Scott. He's actually a genius. A bunch of guys born in the mid-80s. Let's go. He ha. I think it's a fun exercise. That'd be a better one with like more people involved.

Like how many rounds would we need to go in for the teams to really start? looking a little bit rough because we left so many guys on the board nobody picked and that's where you annoyed me a bit because like you didn't take mckinin like i i thought so that this is where things got messed up for me because i didn't think like dry sidle would be available i thought that we were going to go like matthews mck david dry sidle guys in the forward group and you went rogue i zagged when you thought i was going to zag right but do you think you should have taken Nathan McKinnon to play with Sidney Crosby and Brad Marchand.

Possibly. The Halifax line. I don't know if I like that. You already went full Canadian. I know. May as well have gone on notice Scotia. Next week we'll redraft the John Scott draft. Did they actually have a draft?

No, no, I was joking about redrafting this draft. Oh, yeah. We'll try again. This is actually our new schick as we're going to see. It's the same draft over. It's an elimination.

The same six, the same 12 players. No. These 12 players are scratched off and we have to go again without them. Or Sean gets the first overall pick and then we see how things go. So like Sean gets McDavid and then see what the hell I do. I was expecting McDavid McCar one too and then you went. I figured you'd go Crosby, but whatever. I thought I...

I just figured I would go all. You just got to have a theme. That's all. Yeah, well, good luck making it all the way to the cup final with all your old men. Yeah. Good luck making the cup final with a bunch of people. Please, nobody yell at me. I was just joking.

I really enjoy all of those players and find them very valuable, including Sidney Crosby. Please don't yell at me. I'm just mad at Sean. I'm going to bring this up to Patrice Bergeron next time we speak. Just don't tell Sidney Crosby. No. promises. That's the end of the show. We will see you next year. Oh, that's the first person I've heard say that. Pause for laughter.

If you're not an athletic subscriber, just a reminder that you can join us at the athletic.com slash hockey show to get an annual subscription for $2 a month for 12 months. You can also now subscribe to the athletic hockey show's YouTube channel. You can subscribe at youtube.com slash at the athletic hockey show. There is an ad sign in there. It's all one word, obviously, because it's a link. Max Bultman and Corey Promin have the prospects here. As you can look for that later on on Friday,

probably lots talk about the World Junior Championship. The Athletic Hockey Show returns Tuesday with Sean Gentilly and Craig Custens. It's the Tuesday Boys 3sies. Hashtag 3sies. Hashtag 3s. Thanks, everyone. Goodbye.