The Athletic Hockey Show - Another COVID-19 outbreak in the NHL is inevitable, Alex Ovechkin shows no signs of slowing down, Bruce Boudreau is a perfect 5-0 as the Vancouver Canucks head coach

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

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What's going on, guys? Welcome to the athletic hockey show, the Wednesday Roundtable Edition. I am Rob Piso from CBC Sports. He is Jesse Granger covering the Vegas Golden Knights in New York, and she is Saracivian who didn't have to work yesterday. Kind of did have to work, but didn't have to work an actual hockey game because of, yeah, the fun COVID stuff going around the NHL. We are going to break down all of that.

Later on, we're going to talk to Tarkal Bashir about how awesome Alexander Ovechkin is. But guys, how are you? And Sarah, I think we have to start with you because I don't mean this to be hyperbolic or anything, but to me yesterday felt like maybe a less scary March 2020 version of sports where it felt like, oh, another one, oh another one, oh, another one. And the canes were supposed to be taken on the wild. And it just didn't happen. Yeah. You could kind of see it coming just because we know how this thing spreads now. And we know more about it. And it's like when Jarvis and Ahio got left behind in Vancouver, it was kind of like the writing was on the wall after another long trip, I guess, like that it, they are sitting

next to each other on an airplane. I think things are bound to happen. And then there you have it, four more cases. But other than Ajo having a fever, which has now been resolved, they're completely asymptomatic so far. That's what we got to kind of tip our hats, the vaccine for that. and remind ourselves that it's not as bad as it used to be. And yes, it stinks that the game's canceled, but they just announced that the game's on for tomorrow. I don't know how they're going to pull that off with the salary cap, but I guess we shall see.

But it could be worse, right? Jesse, it just keeps piling up. As we mentioned, the Hurricanes game was canceled. The flames now have 17 people on COVID protocol. Brad Marchon's been put on it. Matthew Barzell's been put on it. Last night with the Kinnuck's game, we had a mid-game yanking of Tucker Pullman because of COVID protocol. I mean, like I said, I don't want to make this sound like doom and gloom, but this yesterday really felt crappy just to see the news keep coming through.

Yeah. And obviously, the Golden Knights were playing the Bruins last night in Boston, Brad Marchand took morning skate with all of his teammates. and then test him and Craig Smith both. And then they both were pulled from the game. And then the Golden Knights play the Bruins. And then this morning, Patrice Bergeron goes on the COVID list. So you have to assume that more are coming. I don't know. To me, I'll push back a little bit on the it feels like March because.

Bring it. Bring it. Back then. Back then it was like, I can remember what was going through our minds. Like when I remember what was the NBA player, he was the first one to test positive. And the worry was like, when Tom Hanks got it, everyone was like, are they going to die? And I think now when you hear 17 flames are on the COVID list, you think, well, there are 17 guys who won't be allowed to play hockey for 10 days because they are going to be on the COVID list. They're going to be fine.

They're going to be perfectly healthy from everything we've seen. I talked to Jonathan Marshall. So I asked him, what his 10 days were like? He was like, I could have played hockey all 10 days. Matias Yanmark, Golden Knight, who spent it on there, he said, I felt fine. I sat at home and watched hockey. So to me, yes, it's concerning in terms of the league and like finishing games and getting games played on time to finish the schedule.

But in terms of the humans who are being impacted by this virus, the worry is almost negligible. Well, that's why I said less scary. I mean, it was, you know, the news just, and I bring up March 2020 because I felt as if that was where the news just felt like almost like an avalanche just coming in and it never stopped. And I kind of felt that the last two days where just new teams and now we've got, you know, more teams having games postponed. And I'm with you. And the fact that they're asymptomatic and the fact that people aren't, we're not worrying

about people dying is the vaccine doing its job, right? But let me ask you guys now. What's next? I mean, I saw on Twitter people bringing up, shut the league down, let's freeze it. I don't think that's going out. I think there are about 50 things on the league's list before they end up doing that. But are we just going to see the league really beef up the COVID protocols? Yeah.

I don't think it's really fair for the league to kind of have none of the relief or the emergency things that they had last year in place for when guys get COVID. If they're going to have asymptomatic guys sit out for X amount of time, right? Like the hurricanes couldn't play the game against the wild because they didn't have enough money in the caps. to call up somebody, like enough people from the AHA because last year there was kind of relief where you could have a million dollars up to that in contracts with people. I don't know. There was a rule they need to reinstate. But they got to do more if they're going to not shut the league down or they have to shut

the league down. Like they can't just continue on like this. I did talk to Dom Waddell yesterday and he kind of said, well, there's 32 teams and only a few of them are being affected even though it's kind of a lot of guys on these teams. being affected. So the show must go on, but I think it can go on in a better way. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, I totally agree. If you're going to, if you're going to continue playing with these COVID outbreaks happening and guys having to sit out 10 days, you have to let them. Yeah. Put the AHL guys on the ice. And like, I don't even think it should be under a million dollars,

whatever the salary is like, if they have nine guys on COVID, let them call nine guys up from the HL. Is a team really? Like, if the HL player makes over X amount, of money like is that really going to turn the tide of competition like this team they can't stack their team with all these high paid hl guys like come on just if nine guys go on the covid list call nine guys up from the hl play the game and and it's not as if it's some sort of cap circumvention this isn't a kuturoff situation like if they were if it was a situation where the team was trying to you know monkey with the rules well they would have them up anyway you know what i mean they wouldn't be back in the american hockey league it just it seems as if

Like you said, especially when these players can play, especially when you're hearing from Marsha's soul that, hey, I could have played. You can't just kind of cut players down. It can't cut a team's ability to play at the ankles because of this sort of situation. You've got to adapt. And what happened with the hurricanes, it really stinks for Aho and Jarvis because they got trapped in Vancouver. And now they're going to miss six games. And they're not going to be back in Carolina until the 27th.

They're going to miss Christmas. I mean, the canes are looking at options here. One of the options, Domodel said, was to bring them back in an ambulance. It has to be a medical vehicle. So it's like a special plane or an ambulance. Like, that's so funny to me. But I don't know. They're trying to work something out to get them back home quicker.

Well, that's the thing. You're seeing a lot of teams avoiding Canada, like it's, you know, because they don't want to get stuck there, which is, it's a tough situation to have. And that's why there was the North Division during the bubble season. but you can't, like I said, I don't think the league stops unless it gets really, really bad, but can you keep doing this? Can you keep avoiding? Can you keep bringing players back home in ambulances? It just, it's almost getting comical. Fluto, who covers the Bruins for us, I saw him, he wrote about Bergeron testing positive today. And he goes, on Tuesday morning, I asked Bergeron if the players were stressed about the upcoming three-game road trip to Canada.

if any players tested positive, they'd have to stay in isolation for 14 days. Bergeron said, that's a good point. I hadn't thought of that. Now that you mention it, that is more stress. Knock on wood, right? Then he tested positive for COVID immediately after. At least he didn't go to Canada. At least it happened in Boston.

The oldest rule of the book, you don't say it. You don't jinx it. But it's funny. Like, again, and this is, I'm going to say it for the third time, the less scary version, we're laughing. And I'm not, and we don't mean to make this, you know, a comical thing. But we're laughing because it's not a situation where, like you said, when Rudy Gober tested positive, that was the first one in the NBA, it was like,

that's what it was. Yeah. What the hell is going on here? And you're right. Tom Hanks was like, not Tom. Like, not Forrest. Please. No.

But this is different. But I just don't know if you can continue moving like this is my question. So if it's different, though, I pose the question. Okay, if it's different and we're laughing and all these players are saying, yeah, I could have played hockey for that 10 days. Is it a realistic possibility to just stop testing for COVID? If these guys are all vaccinated and all their teammates are vaccinated and they're feeling fine, do you, is it even possible to say, okay, stop testing for COVID?

If someone feels sick, just like if they have the flu, go home, isolate. We'll test you then, see if you have like whatever. But if you don't feel sick, we're not going to test them every day. And we just play the NHL season. And like, no, like, is that even possible? I think it's a legit question. I think it's a legit question. Yeah, I think people lose their minds during these arguments,

but that's a legit question because the vaccine is working, and that's a good thing, people. I feel like we do bend our minds. I was talking to Rousseau yesterday because of the Wilde and Keynes games, and our mentions were just a tirefire on Twitter when it's like, we're just saying rational things. So I think the discussion needs to be held. I have, from the very beginning, I have not been the, this is just the flu,

stop testing. I have not been that guy at all. But now that everyone's vaccinated, it almost feels like we're getting to that point. But, you know, I almost feel like over the last six months, companies, be it the NHL or anybody, want to do things that give you the illusion of safety. You know what I mean? And so instead of going in that way, and I'm not even necessarily saying that's the right way to go, Jesse, people are going to say, you're testing less?

No. You know, the reports we're seeing is the NHL is going to go. back to the bubble situation, not putting them in a bubble, but the same sort of safety protocols and do more. And yeah, I'm not going to pretend to be a doctor where we can say that, you know, we're going to stop doing this, but it's just, this moved so fast, too. Last week, we were talking about this. We talked to each other seven days ago, guys, and it was nothing like this. So obviously, the NHL has a lot of question marks. There's something else coming up in February.

And this is something we, I feel like we talk about every week. And when I ask you about a month ago, it was like, ah, it's fine. Then it was like, oh, I'm not sure. Oh, God. And it's the Olympics. We had some interesting comments from players around the league. We all know that Robin Leonard already said he's not going. Connor McDavid called the situation unsettling.

John Tavares called it uneasy. Alex Petrangelo says he is undecisive. it. By the way, that's two of the three members who are already named to Team Canada. And it all centers around right now if you test positive for COVID in Beijing and you don't have two negative tests after that within 24 hours, you could be stuck there three to five weeks, which is a long, long time. So guys, I want to ask you, on your, are they going meter? What's your number right now as far as the Olympics go? Jesse, we'll start with you. because I saw a big eye roll there when I ask you that question.

Yeah, I mean, if it's one to 100, 100 they're going. I'm at like two right now. I don't think it doesn't seem like they're going. And like we talked about it last week, I think, Robin Lennar coming out and saying he's concerned by the possible quarantine time. And I think I've, so like covering Robin Lennar for two years, I've learned that if Robin Lennar comes out and says something,

there's like a 90% chance every NHL player is thinking. that and they're all talking about it amongst each other and none of them will say it and Leonard's just the first guy to say it and then as soon as he says it and then everyone kind of sees the reaction then they start coming out and saying it so to me this was this like these players have been concerned about this for a few weeks Leonard was the first guy and then after that it's just kind of rolling out I think that there is some real concern especially the the I guess the potential to miss a bunch of games after the Olympic break if you get if you test positive and you have to stay back in Canada, the potential to miss all those games,

I think is what's worrying players more than anything. Okay, Sarah. So Jesse's two out of a hundred. You are? I'm four out of a hundred. Russians will probably, I don't know. It's like I was talking to Donnie Waddell, who is a very much like player's GM type of guy. And he said, you know what? They bargained for this in the CBA and we can't, we will support them 100% if they choose to go. things are popping up and it's really like should they go because like the possibility of COVID it's like a few weeks ago we weren't talking about this like you said and now all these guys are getting COVID and it's like very you see how easy it is to get COVID when one guy gets it and the possibility of getting it there would just suck and I think it's getting real right now

so I feel like they're kind of arguing amongst themselves I know I've talked to a few guys who were iffy so it'll be interesting I don't know is it will be interesting I don't know is it One of those things where, and Jesse, you alluded to this with Robin, Leonard, I feel like you need that if one quasi superstar says, I'm not going. If Connor McDavid, for example, he's not a quasi superstar. He's not a quasi-superstar. He's just him saying unsettling or what was there. Yeah, unsettling.

Suddenly everyone went, whoa. And, you know, it's very clear. If you watched Gary Bettman's press conference on day two of the board of governors meetings, He used the word concerned, I count six and a half times. One time he kind of went, that's why I'm giving them a half on that one. He keeps talking about the concerns. The league is saying, we made a promise we're going to fulfill this promise, but the players are starting to raise concerns because it's in Beijing, guys.

This isn't like, I'm wondering if your numbers are way higher if this is the Vancouver Olympics or if this is Salt Lake City. You know what I mean? Because being stuck five weeks in Beijing is very, very, very different. I mean, it's, it's one of those situations. January 10th is the deadline. And I bring that up because that's the financial deadline.

They could actually cancel even later than that, but then they're on the hook for some cash. And we alluded to this a couple weeks ago, but I want to bring it up again because Sean Shapiro wrote a great piece on the athletic about the scheduling. The longer they wait, the harder that that three-week break is going to be to at least do something with. Do we end up seeing this league to say on January 9th,

We're not going. And then you two have three weeks off because there's no actual hockey to cover. I hope that they do it earlier rather than later just because, like, Domodal also was involved in, like, PNC Arena. And he was saying they've scheduled concerts and stuff. So how are they going to? It'd be nice if they could work around some of the makeup games during this time, but they need time to figure that out. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah.

To me, the conversation has changed. Like, when we've talked about this for a week. and it's always been, well, the NHL would prefer the players not to go, so they're looking for a reason to pull the plug. To me, it's the players that are now the ones that are deciding it. And, like, they could be the ones to say, I'm not going. And if that's the case, the players don't, like, the NHL has that deadline to pull all the players and say, you're not allowed to go.

We're staying in America. We're staying in North America. But if the players, like, individually decide not to go, what if we just see 80% of them say no, I'm staying, and then 20% go. Like, no what I mean like this? Like that deadline means nothing for the players. The players are individually making the decisions on their own. And I think maybe even players who were still thinking I'm going a couple days ago, like Sarah said, it's getting real. You're seeing like I feel like players are more afraid of testing positive today than they were a week ago. And the thought of like some of those players that were thinking

quarantine in Beijing, whatever, I'm not getting it. It's no big deal. now all of a sudden, like five guys they know have tested positive in the last few days, suddenly those players are now thinking, uh, maybe I don't want to go to Beijing. Yeah. And I read the playbook, which was what the PA was kind of waiting to see. And it's interesting because if you don't know what the Olympic playbook is, it's just basically a set of rules and regulations. And I get one, you know, as a media member, the athletes get one as, you know, athletes competing. And everyone was waiting to see if there was going to be that three to five week thing in there.

And the I don't want to use the word pass the buck, but they basically said if you test positive, then you are subject to the laws in China. That's a scary line to me. And I think a lot of players are going to see that and say, whoa, it's not the IOC saying, okay, we'll do this. And especially if the IOC had made a rule, then at least Donald Fear could call the IOC and say, change this rule and will come. I really don't see Donald Fear calling the Chinese government and saying,

you guys got time for lunch? Like it's just not happening. So I'm with you guys. I think the number is going to be very low on my list as well. And unless something changes real quick and real fast and unless they're given some sort of special treatment where they say, even if you test positive, we can get you on a private plane home. this is going to scare a lot of players.

So we're going to have to wait. Not too long. I mean, it's December 15th. And I really don't think the NHL is going to let this go past January the 10th. Should we talk actually a little bit of hockey before we end and this? All we're talking about. Yeah, hockey, you know, actual hockey being played because the Canucks won again. 5 and 0 under Bruce Boudreau.

They were down 3-0 last night after the first period and just rallied. And I thought one line really jumped out to me. from Bohar about after the game, he said, quote, there's a new life, a new energy in the room. And every time I hear players say things like that under a new coach, I just picture the old coach, Travis Green sitting on his couch going, oh, come on. You know? Yeah, he deserved better. You just, if they do succeed, and it's the other way around too, if the team would have went 0 and 5, you know, Travis Green going, hey, look, it's not my fault, see? But what do you guys think of what you're seeing from the Canucks because this looks like, as Bo Horvatt said, a team with new energy.

Sarah, we'll start with you. Roses are red, violets are blue. It don't always be like that, but sometimes it do. Like, sometimes you just really need a few changes to get people kind of motivated again. Jesse was so impressed with your poem there. I don't know where that came from. Phenomenal. I agree with you.

And I think, like, you point, you look at like, okay, what schematic? changes as Boudreau making. And like, I don't think it's that much as much as it is. You win one game under the new coach and suddenly, like, they could have won that same game in the same fashion under Travis Green and you don't feel like, like the players in the room don't feel like, okay, we're past this. You just feel like, okay, we want a game finally. You win one with a new coach and there's just something about it, the confidence it gives you of, well, look at that. Now we can win games. to me, almost nothing to do with the actual coach itself. It could have been anyone else.

Just someone different there. And then the results are different. And then suddenly the things you were worried about in the back of your head that was causing this team that has talented players to play well below their expectations. To me, those things start to go away. You start to get confidence. And I hate confidence because you can't quantify it. And you can't actually see if it's real.

You just have to kind of believe in it. But I do believe in confidence in sports is so important. And a little thing like a coaching change can, can, and the results immediately following can get a team playing confidently. And I think that's what you're seeing in Vancouver. And just negative, like a negative situation just breeds more negativity. When your team's losing and when you're a team in a Canadian city where everything is, you know, everything you do is scrutinized. It just makes things get worse. and then suddenly a new guy comes in and it's and look we've seen a lot of Bruce Boudreau over the years.

We saw him on 24-7. That rant he did with the with the capitals where he dropped like 42 F-bombs in about a minute and a half. He's he could be an intense guy too, but you know the Bruce, there it is, the joking around. It seems as though this team is actually, you know, having a little bit of fun again. And quickly speaking to this team, they're still looking for a GM remember. Jim Rutherford was named president. and I've never seen this. He said he's got 40 people on his list.

Do you guys even know 40 people? Not 40 people that I would, if you told me, Rob, here's a piece of paper. Right down 40 people. I'd be like, oh, mom, you know, like, but yeah, but is that not a big number? Or is it just a matter of he's saying we're doing our due diligence? And I guess they have the positive aspect of Jim Rutherford knows what he's doing. He can kind of stay in this position until somebody is picked.

But 40 is a big number. What do you think, Jesse? Yeah, casting a wide net there. I think your point about Rutherford is a good point that when you've got a guy like that with the experience he has, you're not in a rush. So it's like we don't need to bring this person in right now. He can basically be the GM until we need someone to. So I like it. And I think when I think of casting, when I think of them having 40 people on a list, I think how often on this show do we complain about recycled coaches, recycled GMs, not bringing in new blood?

Well, if they've got 40 people, a bunch of those people have never been a GM, have never been a president of hockey ops. And maybe it's someone who's got a new angle on things, a new vision, maybe a more analytics people. I don't know. To me, when I see 40 people, that excites me. And I think there can be some really bright people on that list that would otherwise have no chance. Yeah, it's interesting because, yeah, because he said they're actually divided into two groups, one of former GMs who are just not working right now, and then guys who have been assistant GMs that he could mentor. And to me, if you've got Jim Rutherford as your president of hockey operations, group B has the upper hand.

I don't know if a Jim Rutherford wants to hire somebody who says, give me all the power. I want both hands on the wheel. Nobody else there. I think he wants to mentor somebody. And I guess it could be good or bad, depending on who that person is. I mean, you obviously don't want to puppet. But if he can mentor somebody and then really pass on the reins, that's a good thing. And you talked about Sarah, this being a good thing.

I look at Montreal's GM search. They've completely assembled their committee to pick, you know, the person. They don't have a number as far as how many people. But we do know, according to Arpom Basu and Mark Antoine Godin, that three of the people they are going to be, at least looking at, are women. and we still have never seen a female GM, but just being on this list to me, and I hear GMs talk about it all the time, sometimes you interview for a job knowing full well,

you're not going to get it, just so your name is on future lists for GM vacancies. But I'm curious to see who these women are, and I'm curious to see if now their names are staples as far as GM searches. Yeah, 100% totally agree. You've got to get your name out there, of course, with,

the way the NHL recycles GMs. It's kind of like, oh, a new name? Let's put that into the recycling bin, you know. Well, no recycling there, no recycling for the Canucks. 40 damn people. I don't, like I said, that is just a big. Jack Johnson has to be one. Jesse Granger interviewing for, uh, all right, guys.

Coming up after the break, we're going to talk about the great eight. 17 seasons in the NHL and he's still playing not good hockey, great hockey. Tarak al-Bashir is going to join us to talk about that and the rest of the caps right after the break. Oh, guys, I was under the impression that there were three guarantees in life, death, taxes, and hockey players slowing down when they get old. But evidently, I was very, very wrong, especially if you watch any of the Washington Capitals. You know exactly what I'm talking about and who I'm talking about. What Alexander Ovechkin is doing right now is ridiculous. And to talk about that and the capitals in general, going to bring on our buddy, Tark al-Bashir.

to talk about and maybe try to explain what we're seeing from the grade eight. He covers the team for the athletic, of course, a contributor on TNT's hockey coverage. Tarek, thanks for coming on and being a two-time guest on the Wednesday roundtable. Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me. And yeah, what Alex is doing right now is unprecedented. It's amazing. You know, I feel fortunate to get to cover him on a nightly basis.

You know, I'm here at the United Center for the morning skate. he's not on the ice 25 minutes tonight I guess that gets you the porn skate off he actually just walked by a minute ago after bumping into Brett Connelly

the former the former capital just got called up by the Black Cox he won the Stanley Cup with the capitals that they gave his other a big embrace

that was pretty cool to see but yeah getting back to Alex what he's doing right now is just it's unreal the production goal scoring wise but the story I wrote for the athletic today

was about his assists. He's got 24 in 28 games. He's had five assists in the last three games. So I did a little digging. And I called up the folks at Sport Logic. And I said, you know, what's going on here? And the analytics show that he's passing the puck more. He's passing it into dangerous areas of the ice with greater frequency.

And he's just in general setting up teammates at a, at a, at a greater rate. And, you know, with Nicholas Baxter being out for the entire season, and by the way, it's a good thing we're talking today. It looks like he's going to play. I'm looking at him right now, taking the morning skate.

Looks like this is going to be his first game this season for the Capitals. But with him missing the first 28 games, they needed someone to pick up the slack. And Ovi said, you know what? I got broad enough shoulders. I can handle it.

And he's really been carrying the weight for this team. But, you know, the goals, you know, I've watched him since his rookie season. Okay, I mean, he's always done this, but the assists, I haven't seen this type of assist production from him since his first five seasons in the league. He's on pace for 70, which is a ridiculous number for anyone in the NHL. But do you know if this was a conscious effort by OV? And I know that's a weird change to make in year number 17 in the NHL, but was it because it used to be, like you said, you've watched him from season number one. most ovie assist came via the rebound or you know opacity had to make when I'm watching him

I'm seeing him not say well I don't have a shot I guess I have to pass I'm seeing him looking for his teammates he is and it is a conscious decision and you know that goes back to nicholas backram being out of the lineup you know backstrom was the capital's leading score last year and I think Alex as the captain you know as a season better and he said look we're missing a 70-80 point guy here I need to pick up up some slack. And what you're seeing, if you look at a lot of the goals, and I went back and I looked at the video of most of his assists this year, what he's doing differently this year is he's looking off the goaltender a little better. He'll hump fake or he'll kind of drop that shoulder like he's

going to let go of that rister. And the goal he freezes and the D-Man freezes and then he slides a buck over to Tom Wilson or to have guinea his net's off and it's a goal. I mean, the number of empty net goals, this team has scored because Al was coming down on the wing and just froze everybody with the threat of his shot. And so I talked to Kuznetsoff about this yesterday. And I said, you know, what's going on here? He said, yeah, we, he knows he had to produce some more offense. And he's absolutely using the pump fake and the threat of shooting to his advantage.

And we're all benefiting from it. Tarek, I think what's impressed me the most when I look at, because when I, when I, if you would have told me six months ago, go, Ovechkin would be putting up this type of production, I would have said, well, man, the power play must be common, because that's how he's going to get him all. Because at this age, with the way he moves now, you're just not expecting to come at five on five. You look at five on five points in the league. This second place is Carrille Caprisov with 22.

Ovechkin has 30 points at even strength, eight above the next closest guy. Like, how complete is his game? Like, we've talked about the offense, but just how complete is his game at even strength right now? it is it is more of a complete game than it ever has been at any point in his career you know just to kind of a point i tried to make i wanted to make a minute ago was the conditioning aspect of all this at 36 years old you've got to be in better shape you got to drop a few pounds because look father time is you know caught up with him a little bit you know he's not doing the highlight real goals that were you that we were so used to seeing he was scoring more from around the blue paint He's getting more tips. He's scoring from, you know, the house, right? So inside the hash marks, more so than he used to, rather than, you know, spinning Roman Hammer look around and then crashing into Kerry Price while, you know, carrying the

puck. He's not doing that anymore. So this summer, he really went to work. And, you know, I've asked him, hey, just lose some weight. He always laughs it off. He's like, well, you know, do I look good? You know, what do you think? I mean, I think talking to people around him, they're like, he looks lighter on his feet.

You know, and guys do that in their means. mid-30s that they try to drop a few pounds to kind of, you know, help offset that maybe half step that they've lost. So that's, that's a lot of it. So that's allowing him to not only be more active on the ice, where I felt like last year he was stationary, wasn't moving his feet quite as much. He's actually a better defender now than I, and it almost sounds crazy to say this, but I mean, you can go back and watch his shifts. He's had eight, nine, ten incredible back checks that have saved goals this year. I'm where it was like, was that number eight?

Really? Did he really just back check that guy all the way into the corner? Yeah, yeah, he did. I think that's a result of being in better shape and, you know, being able to have those wheels to play, you know, deep into third periods. I mean, the last few games, he's played 25 plus minutes. You know, this is, this guy's 36 and he's playing more minutes than he has at any point in his career.

And he's also fading less than third periods. I mean, there was time the last few years where I felt like he faded a little bit in the third periods. Not anymore. He's, he's just as productive. And, you know, I would say, I know it's really, really early here, guys, but he's probably going to be one of the three finalists for the Hart Trophy. And his team's been banged up. It's had COVID. And you got this dude at his age who's, you know, producing at the rate he is.

I mean, you might get my vote. And that's not me being a homer. That's just be watching it on a daily basis. This team's been banged up, but they've been so good at the same time at times. Like the metro is just a scary place, isn't it? Yeah, you know, it's amazing, Sarah, how many key players have been out for the capitals this year. And, you know, for the longest time, we were led to believe that the farm system was kind of bereft of talent. And they had traded all these picks and all these draft picks, you know, to kind of keep that window open.

And there were just a bunch of fourth-line grinders down there. And, you know, not much help in Hershey. And as it turns out, there's actually some freaking hockey players down there because they've been calling them up one at a time. And I want to say, I wish I had this number right in front of me, but I think seven players have scored their first NHL goal this year. So, you know, there were a lot of guys who, you know, probably were a little frustrated being in the Capitol's organization because, you know, they're 22, 23 and they're not getting their, they're not getting their opportunity because, you know, this is a star-studded lineup that didn't have many injury problems. and what what we're finding out is they were actually kind of overcooked if that's the right term like they stayed down there for for a couple two three extra seasons and you know got some more pro experience and when they came up they were ready to do their thing and as I wrote a story

on this probably two or three weeks ago what this is done is it's given the front office a much better sense for who's in the organization and what they can do and so you know when it comes a free agency this summer and they go, hey, can that guy, PK, can he be a fourth line left wing? I don't know. We never seen him. Well, now you've seen him for eight, nine, ten games. And now it's like, well, he was pretty good when he was up here. Maybe we don't have to go sign that 32-year-old to a, you know, a contract that doesn't

look that great in free agency. We can just call up that 23-year-old kid that we had in December. So it's really giving them a head start on not only free agency, but just having a better idea of who's in their farm and what they can do. Tarik, you talk about injuries. Just to go back to Ovi for a second. Can you explain how he's playing the minutes he is, the style that he has for 17 seasons,

and remained as healthy as he is? That's to me one of the things that is such an anomaly because when you are 36 and in your 17th season, I hate calling him an old guy because I'm older than Alexander Ovechkin, but things hurt the next morning a little bit more every single year. and I feel like he's he's the Terminator or something that you just can't hurt him. So I think there are a few things here. Number one, his game has evolved.

He's not nearly as physical as he used to be. He can still blow you up. I mean, you know, he's good for every 7, 8, 9, 10 games. He'll have a highlight real hit where it's like, whoa, he can still bring it. But he's not doing it on every shift. He's being more judicious with his physical play. I think he realized somewhere around 32, 33 years old, about three seasons ago that he couldn't just continue being reckless and really throwing his body around and continue to play into his 39, 30, a 40-year-old season, which is what he's going to have to do, most likely to pass Gretzky.

Although now he might do it at 38 at this rate. I think the numbers are always being kind of adjusted based on now he's playing. So he's really evolved in that area. He's also taking better care of his body than I'd ever seen before. even though, and this gets back to, you know, the training in the offseason. There was a great tweet, and I actually included this in a story not that long ago. This summer, after a full training camp session, morning ice, a weightlifting session, you know, everyone's going home for the day, especially the veterans.

And Ovi is getting into the car of his Russian trainer, who he brings over in the summer, former Olympian, a runner, and they're going to a local high school track to run windsprings. You know, the 25-year-olds are going home. The 36-year-old is going to the track. And so he goes out there and he's wearing a shirt. You can find this on Twitter. It's somewhere out there. And his shirt, I think it might have been a Nike shirt.

It said, running sucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he gets out there on the track. And the high school was also having their football practice. and they're like, hey, guys, it's Ovi. And so he goes after one of his sprints. He goes over and poses for a picture with like all the skill position guys. You know, they're all there like, you know, doing their little hand signs or whatever else, posing with Ovi.

And so I saw that. And that's when I started asking questions about, you know, whether he was adjusting his offseason routine. And, you know, finally what I would say is the thing that has always struck me about Ovi is he's a big man, but he's not like ripped. You know what I mean? Like I feel like the guys who are really shredded, this is a little bit of a generalization. I feel like the guys who are really shredded sometimes end up with more soft tissue injuries and other things. Back in the day, we would call OV country strong. He just looks like he's a farmer who's been carrying bales of hay all day.

Like I'm not saying he doesn't lift weight, but, you know, it looks like he's just been carrying like logs like in a forest somewhere and outside Moscow. You know, like that's- Yeah, he's not going to be on the cover. men's health anytime soon. Exactly. And I wonder if, you know, and I've been told by other people that that's, that's kind of part of it. He's just, he's just put together differently. He's just, you know, he's not like some, like a finely tuned like Ferrari that, you know, one thing goes wrong and, you know, now he's injured and he's out for it. He's just kind of just strong, country strong,

is I think the term I've heard people use with him. Old man strength. Sorry, Rob. For sure. Dad's true. Terreek. Two shows in a row. I got to mute these two for calling the old guy. We've been talking a lot about Ovi, but there's another resurgence in Washington

that I kind of wanted to ask you about. Evgeny Kuznetsoff, in the off season, it seemed like this team wasn't going to be able to give him away. Like, I feel like we almost wrote him off. And he's been the second best player on this team by a pretty wide margin, right? He has been. And, you know, it's funny.

You ask people who watch everyone, Capsky and you talk to the coaches here and you say, you know, why is Ovi playing so well? They say, hey, it's number 92. You know, they kind of are feeding off of one another. You know, getting back to kind of Ovi moving his speed and being more on the attack. Part of that is when you play with the Ginnikiznets off, you have to be skating to be in the player who's going to get dusted and left behind. Like, it's almost like Coosie's dragging him along a little bit. And Ovi is responding with all those nice passes. I mean, you look get the main beneficiaries of Ovi's set up passes, it's Kisnetsoff with five goals. So yeah,

I mean, you nailed it there, Jesse. He has been the capital second best player. They needed him to be their second best player. When you go back to the Stanley Cup run in 2017-18, the best player, I know Ovi won the Kahn Smythe, to me, the best player was of Ginnikuznetsov. And then he was the best player for the first two months of the next season. And then something happened. Now, I'm not sure it was, but it's like he just got bored. And it just, he just, he just went to like ordinary mode. And he just, he was still good. He was still was a guy 60, 70 points, like still good, but he wasn't like in beast coosy mode. And that's what they need. They need him to be that player with a $7.8 million cap hit. You can't have an ordinary like second line center at that

cap it. You need him to be outstanding. And so last year was a really tough year for him. He got COVID, not once, but twice. He got the team fined $100,000 for breaking COVID protocol. He got scratched by Peter Lobby Lett for a game for showing up late to a team meeting. That kind of led to all those trade rumors. It was like the capitals are, you know, and I, you know, people were telling me. You know, we're going to listen. We'll listen.

I mean, we kind of have had enough of this guy. You know, he's crushing us. At that cap, it playing the way he is, it's crushing us. You know, I've written the coozy, bounced back story too. and he told me, you know, that did serve as motivation and as fuel. He said he never felt like he was going to get traded. He felt the conversations privately were a lot different than what was being reported. You know, while people were saying, oh, you know, the caps are going to listen,

he tells me that behind the scenes they were going, hey, listen, we need you. We need you to get back to what you were before. And so like Ovi, he worked really hard on his conditioning this summer. You know, I know it's a big cliche. Everyone says, ah, I reported to camp in the best shape of his career. Actually, he might have reported in the best shape of his career. This guy runs like seven, eight miles a day in the summer. I mean, that's a lot of mileage for a pro hockey player.

And I think you're seeing the result. So I think Ovi's fast start is a result of Kuznet's off. And I think Kuznets off fast start is a result of Ovi's passes. So, like, they're really kind of complimenting each other right now. And you are complimenting us with your country strong knowledge of the Washington capitals. Tarek, thanks so much for doing this. I love hearing the backstrom shots as we're doing this as well. I don't know if you guys to see backroom.

Backrum's out there somewhere. Somewhere. Thanks as always. And I can't wait for you to finish off the hat trick and come on the show for a third time. We'll talk to you soon. Give me calling time. Thanks, Tarek. Tarik, Al-Bashir covers the caps for the athletic and, of course, a contributor on TNT's hockey

coverage. Coming up after the break, time to get to your Twitter questions. You keep writing them. We'll keep reading them. All right, guys, time for your favorite portion of the show and mine. The Twitter questions. We got a few here that producer Jeff picked out. Let's start with one from Eric Kirchner. It's actually a two-part question. And I think we're going to start with Jesse on this one, seeing as it focuses on the Golden Knights. If healthy, how does Eichael play in February slash March with the current salary cap? Well, he doesn't with the current salary cap. I mean, the Golden Knights are $7 to $9 million over.

It's somewhere in that range, and they're going to have to trade some salary unless they have, like, there's a chance the Golden Knights could try to play the LTIR game, the Kutraff game, as people call it now, because that's what Tampa Bay did. But that was different. That was one player who was clearly going to be out the whole season

and you knew the number, whereas this is, Can they come up with $7 million in players on long-term IR at the exact right time for Jack Eichol to come back? I just don't see that happening. So the chances are Kelly McCriman is going to have to make a trade. And it's going to be a difficult trade to make because when a team, like the Golden Knights are playing really well right now. And when a team's playing really well, all their major pieces are working. And right now all those guys are playing well. So they're going to have to trade players off the team that are contributing in major ways right now.

I'm not going to pretend to know which players are getting moved. Riley Smith is an unrestricted free agent. He would make sense. He makes $5 million, but he's also playing really, really well right now. Brayne McNabb is another guy who's pending unrestricted free agent coming up this off season. I think Evgeny Dodonov also makes $5 million. He's a player that's been playing on the third line. If you're looking for guys who make the, I guess, would impact the team the least.

He's the most expensive player playing the furthest down the lineup. So Evgeny Dodonov would make sense there. But yeah, that's the answer. Jack Eichael will not play on this current roster without multiple players being traded away. Part two to his question, Alec Martinez update? Yeah, so Martinez got a nasty cut in the face from a skate blade, and it's been a while. Usually players that get cuts like that will just kind of get stitched up and be right back. He has been out for a long time.

I've asked Pete DeBore for updates. He said it's not getting better, but it's not getting worse. and he's also used phrases like he's experiencing symptoms and we don't know when they're going to go away. And he hasn't flat out said that they are concussion related, but it kind of leads me down that path. He got a skate. Pete DeBore said he got a boot to the face. So that skate blade didn't just cut Alec Martinez's face. It may have given him some concussion symptoms. So we don't know for sure if that's what it is, but that is, I mean, he got 50 stitches.

So it was a major, major cut. But from what I heard, they did test for like nerve damage and they thought it could have been that. And they said the tests were positive. I don't know. I'm not a medical person. They were good, good results in terms of the cut itself. So yeah. So in terms of of the cut itself, I think he's fine.

We don't know for sure if it's concussion related, but that could be it. And if it is concussion related with the way that those always are is you don't know when the time, like it could take him two days. It could take him two months. You never know. So with Martinez, it's kind of just a waiting game right now. You know, even though we've all covered this game for a long, long time, sometimes we forget it's like the fastest game on Earth on Blades. You know, anytime something happens with a skate, I'm like, oh, yeah.

Like, it's everybody's got blades. It's a dangerous hockey game. Moose the jab. Jeff Petrie's post game comments a direct jab at Dominic Dushar. The team lacks structure. I've got the comments right here. He said, quote, it's frustrating. It's the same things over and over.

we're not playing as a team, we're not playing as a group. It's like you're searching to find where people are. It's like there's no structure out there. And if that's not a direct shot at your coach, I don't know what the hell is. What's the next meeting between Dusharum and Petrie going to be like, what do you guys think of these quotes? Go on. To me, to me, like, I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt and like, yeah,

it sure looks like he's taking a shot at the coach. Or maybe he's taking a shot at some young players on the team that aren't listening. to the coach. Like, like, I guess that could be a possibility, too. If the coach, the coaching staff, could have, could be doing all their work. And like, Petrie may know that. And, and, and the coaching staff knows that. And there are some guys who just aren't listening, aren't showing up, aren't putting in the effort to learn the system. I don't know. But Jesse, you must consider that nobody in Montreal has ever taken anything out of context or made any sort of drama. So I think this has to be a direct shot. This is like the fourth show. It may well could be. The

fourth show where Sarah has just ripped into the Montreal Hockey Media. What do you got against the hockey media in Montreal? I'm sorry. I got a few bucks in this. Oh, man. Clarence over one wants to know how awful Ken Holland and Dave Tippett are at their jobs. I mean, they're in the second wildcard spot, one point up on the Jets. But I do want to bring up something quickly with the Oilers.

We saw another jersey got thrown on the ice last night. And we've seen multiple jerseys get thrown on the ice. We saw a leaf jersey get thrown on the ice. We saw a Vancouver jersey get thrown on the ice. I think it's bullshit. I think it used to be like when a team is really, really, really struggling and underachieving at least and putting forth no effort, then you throw a jersey on the ice to say enough is enough. Are we kidding me here?

The Edmonton Oilers, are your fans just sick of what you're seeing right now? Agree or disagree? Is my Canadian showing against Sarah? I know you're ready to say that. Yeah, I think you're Canadian showing. I don't really get that. I don't know. I feel like with the Oilers, it has to be like with the playoffs.

I don't have like, let's see what they do in the playoffs. What do you think, Jesse? Well, there is a trend with, I mean, you mentioned it was Montreal, it was Vancouver, it was Edmonton. What's the trend we're noticing with these jerseys being thrown on the ice? They're Canadian, right? Oh, Canada. Arizona, I forget to see an Arizona coyote's jersey thrown on the ice. Not one Arizona Coyote's jersey.

Well, they'd have to be able to get back into the building for that. And that team is an absolute abomination. Like, it's embarrassing for the entire sport of hockey that that team gets put on the ice every night. Like, they're so bad. And nobody's thrown a jersey on the ice in Arizona. Yeah, all right, moving on. Dr. Steve Badger says, McCarran has chased to beat coffee's 48 goals.

He's on pace for 45. Indirectly, that would mean talking. about coffee's 48 surpassing Bobby Gore's 46 goal total, just incredible numbers. What McCar is doing right now is, it is comical. And I know, like, you look at the eras in which coffee scored is 48, Norse scored is 46, different eras. But that's exactly what makes this just so incredible. The thing with me with McCar is so many of his goals come out of nowhere, come absolutely out of nowhere. You see it kind of start in the neutral zone and puck's just going and all of a sudden

he just does something. He's one of the best offensive defensemen I've seen in a long, long time. Agree or disagree? I totally agree. And I love this kind of brand of defensemen that's popping up right now. I was talking to Tori Krug about this kind of a year or two ago that he says it's cycle, like the way defensemen are, like in a few years they're going to be tough guys again. it's going to be a track meet again. And I'm appreciating this for what it is. What do you think,

Jesse? Yeah, I think Kail McCar is an example of an awesome player put into a perfect scenario. Like, the situation for him is so, like, he is the perfect defenseman for that team. And that team is just getting the most out of him. Like, it was like a year and a half ago, it was McCar and Quinn Hughes. Macar and Quinn Hughes, they're both the next stars. And like, it feels like McCar has surpassed Hughes because he's on a team full of super talented offensive players that play a fast transition brand of hockey. It's just he was built to play on that specific team and is just, it's getting the most out of the player that McCar is, I think. He does these subtle little things.

I think, like, if I could have an ISO cam on one player, he'd be one of them. He makes these subtle moves with the puck that just fools everybody on the ice. He does these little, like, I'm going this way. No, and then suddenly he's, he's, he's, gone the other way. He's just so smooth. And let's not forget, guys. He's hardly a veteran who should have the confidence that he does. I mean, he's just absolutely incredible. Yeah. The sky's the limit for guys like him and Adam Fox. Yeah, at 45. I didn't really even realize he was on pace for that many goals, which I know we're December 15th and we're at like the 30

game mark. So the on pace four doesn't always pan out. But that is just incredible. And that just drops up another show. Guys, before we go, I know Jesse, you're on the road and Sarah, you're at home, but what do you guys got on tap for this week? Jesse? Here in New York, I'm going to be here for six days covering, they play the Devils, the Rangers, and the Islanders. And the Rangers game is the one that sticks out for Golden Knights fans. It is Gerard Galant's

first time coaching against the Golden Knights. He led them to the Stanley Cup final in the inaugural season. And the fan favorite outside of Mark Andre Fleury over the last four years in Vegas was Ryan Reeves, who will be playing his former team. And Ryan Reeves, of all the players to play against your former teammates, Reeves is probably the most fun one because he's out there to try to crush people. So I'm going to do some stuff on that.

It's going to be a fun week in New York. Only New York, am I right? I, on Monday, wrote something about, you guys watch The Walking Dead. The first zombie to die is now a hurricane intern. So I talked to her, and she has a really, I know, she's a really, I know, I was like, she looks familiar. Then I noticed I've seen her in movies. I was like, what the hell?

So I read about that. She's such a sweetheart. Then I have a very exciting collab coming up in a few weeks. So watch out for that. I can not be more excited. Wait, you recognized her. Did you recognize her as the zombie? Like, were you like, you look like that zombie?

No, I just, I knew. Put your arms up and walk for a minute. Let me just see. No, that was like 10 years ago, too. No, she's in a few things, like the secret life of bees and a few other things. And I was like, this girl looks familiar. And then I'm like, oh, he's famous. I would love to get in that pitch meeting.

Okay, guys, have you seen The Walking Dead? Go for it, Sarah. Thanks a lot for another great show, guys. We'll talk to you next week. I want to let everybody else know some other great hockey content we got here at the athletic hockey show. Trevor Zegris, remember him? The Dishigan, which I thought was just a great name for Justin Bourne from Sports.

And I did that. And I was like, that's perfect. He is Craig Custins, Sean Gentile and Haley and Haley-Salem's guest on the Athletic Hockey Show USA. You got Bill Guerrins, the general manager of the Minnesota Wild and Team USA at the 2022 Olympics. Astrosk right there is Michael Russo's guest on Straight From the Source. And remember, guys, we want you to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and leave a rating, leave a review. It helps us out a lot. And subscribe to the Athletic Audio Plus on Apple Podcast to get all the bonus content from the entire network this week.

Ian Mendez and Down Goes Brown from The Athletic Hockey Show present an extended bonus content. So start with a 30-day free trial, then you get 99 cents a month after that. And right now you get an annual subscription to The Athletic for just $3.99 a month when you visit theathletic.com slash hockey show. That sounds like a pretty good Christmas gift. The Athletic Hockey Show continues Thursday with Ian Mendez and down goes brown for Jesse. For Sarah. I'm Rob.

See you next week.