The Athletic Hockey Show - Are Crosby and Malkin the greatest duo in NHL history?

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

Hailey and Sean bring on Rob Rossi to discuss a historic night in Pittsburgh for Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin, with Crosby becoming only the 10th player in the NHL to reach the 1600 point plateau and Malkin becoming the 48th player to reach the 500 goal mark. It's not all great in Pittsburgh though as they address the monumental struggles of Tristan Jarry between the pipes. Plus, Hailey and Sean take a look at the Avalanche, who are battling injuries, brutal goaltending and have zero cap space, as a bad start could turn into a nightmare of a season in Colorado. Hosts: Hailey Salvian and Sean GentilleWith: Rob RossiExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the athletic hockey show. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the athletic hockey show. It's Thursday, so that means it's Haley Salvean and Sean Jintilly here with you. Sean, exciting night in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I guess, huh? Probably should have gone to the hockey game last night. Where'd you go instead? Probably should have been there.

I was eating pizza with my friend. You were what? I was eating pizza with my friend. That's what I did. instead of, I traveled yesterday and I didn't feel like going to the game and it seems like it was a mistake because it was important for five reasons, six separate reasons. I was I was lazy and I paid dearly for it. But I got to watch. Gany Malkin hit a milestone and Sydney Crosby hit a milestone and the Penguins maybe not save their season, but I think I think that was a big win for them last night against Buffalo.

And I watched it. I watched it happen while I was eating and eating. and drinking instead of working. Well, at least you could actually watch the game because I was just tracking it on my phone. And then I got so desperate to know what was happening that I just sat in my bed and listened to the radio call. Because apparently in Canada, you need six different subscriptions to be able to watch a given hockey game on a Wednesday night.

I have sports net. I have Amazon Prime. But if I wanted to watch Penguin Sabres on a Wednesday Eve, I needed Sportsnet Plus. So did you hear the Penguins radio call or was it like what? Okay. Yeah, I just went on the NHL app and because I didn't have, I refused to pay for another streaming service. I sat in my bed and listened to the Penguins radio call. It was great. It was delightful. And then I just watched the highlights on Twitter as I came through. at least you got to watch the game.

But there was a lot of exciting stuff that did happen in that game last night, as you said, Sean, which is why for our deep dive and our guest today, we're going to bring in Rob Rossi, covers the penguins for the athletic for us. So our original thought was, wow, Tristan Jari just got pulled 11 and a half minutes into this game. Let's just talk about what's going on there. and what this means for the penguins. Where do they go next? Tristan Jari, he's bad again.

Turns out a lot more stuff happened in that game last night. Pretty wild game in and of itself to the point where you could almost forget about Jari. By the end of it, we had huge milestones for huge stars, lead changes, last minute game time goal, Sydney Crosby OT winner, Penguins ultimately win at 5'4 and overtime. So we're going to dive into all that with Rob Rossi. Rob, welcome to the show. Thanks for doing this. That was very radioe. I didn't like that. Yeah, what is this?

Thanks so much for joining us. Yeah, I will be completely up front. I have not slept since last night. It was one of those ones where it felt a little bit like a playoff game. You get home really late and then you're just kind of like, what did I just see? Or at least, and when that does it, I DVR all the games here. So I went back and watched it again because I, I don't have friends like Sean.

And there was no pizza place open. Dude, like, let's hold on a second. Let's let's get real. If you, if there wasn't a game last night, it would have been like, hey, what's,

what's going on? Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I meant like,

but I mean like, I don't, I don't, yeah, I, I also, it was like when I started watching it again, it was like 2.30 in the morning.

So I was like, I mean, who's going to, anybody that I would call that come up and watch a game with me at that point, probably I shouldn't want to invite over my house. So, but I, you know, my first thought was I felt so bad for the SportsNet Pittsburgh people because they, they couldn't call the home opener because it was, I think it was. Yeah, it was TSPN.

And then this one was TNT. And it wasn't even TNT's like, you know, A team. It was there sort of B broadcast games. So like, I wanted to text people like, man, this. stinks to be you. The radio call was great. Oh, the radio call was great. And they have Joe Brand, who's their new broadcaster on the radio side.

And I went into the booth and really good friends with Phil Bork, who's a long time, play-by-play guy and also former player. And he's kind of like a cult legend here in Pittsburgh. And I went in and Joe's like, so what do you expect him tonight? And I just kind of looked at Borky and I looked at Joe. and I'm kind of like, buckle up, kid, this, this, this could be a, this has all the makings for one. Yeah, sometimes when you go into the building,

you just kind of have that feeling that you're about to see something. And honestly, like, I thought all the ingredients were there for almost exactly what happened, which was sort of a goaltending implosion, the penguins coming off a third or a three game trip, but it's a weird thing because they have two home games between the Western Canada swing. So it's like almost like that first game, back as an extension of the road trip. Malkin is just, it's hard to explain to people that maybe aren't as familiar with

prime McGinie Malkin and are more familiar with sort of the guy that's from recent years, just how much, at least as much as it's possible, this guy looks like guy 10 years younger right now. And, you know, Crosby just has this incredible knack. And I'm sure in Pittsburgh, it's absolutely taken for granted because it's the most spoiled fan base in hockey. I mean, they've had Lemieux and Yager and Crosby. And oh, by the way, Malkin. And they, they just have a knack. All of them have had a knack for these massive moments at home. But Crosby in particular has just seemed to seize these moments. And I just remember thinking last night, even before the game got going, man, this is kind of a cauldron of a real special hockey night.

And so it was actually a real, Sean knows I'm not a reporter that loves games. I don't like covering games. I like all the stuff around it. But this was a fun one to see. And I think this is my 21st season. I've seen all of those two. And this was, I felt really privileged that I was able to get there and be able to capture it because it was fun.

It was a fun crowd too. I mean, I know Penguin fans, I'm sure people outside of Pittsburgh are like, oh, they've had since have it so great. But they have had it really great. But they're also not real used to what the last two years have been like. That building popped. I mean, it really reminded me of the old Civic Arena where the place just kind of had a hum. I mean, my favorite moment of the night was not one of the big ones. It was the Penguins went on a power play.

I want to say in the second, late in the second period. period. And the crowd just started chanting, Gino, Gino, Gino, anticipating the 500th goal. And I even asked him after the game, it didn't make it in my story. Like, did you hear that? He goes, he's like, yeah, and like no good because power play bad. And then they, then they score on the power. So yeah, it was just, it was, it was cool. You're like, you're rubbing this in, by the way. I knew I was making a mistake last night. I thought Jari saved me and that I, and that it wasn't, that nothing was going to come up.

it. I feel, oh, I'm sorry. I should be clear for the audience and Haley, I was intending to rub it in. That was, that was, that was, I know, I know, I know what you're doing. I was confirming it. That was the goal. Okay, so let's get into, there's a lot that we can dive into here, particularly as it relates to the way that of getting Malkin has started this season, but just for listeners who might not be aware, Sydney Crosby gets a 1600, 1600th point last night, becomes the fifth fastest player in NHL history to hit that mark. Fgeny Malkin scores his 500th goal, one of only 20 players to do that with one franchise.

I think that's the significant piece. Sean and I talked about this when we were lining up the show is it's not just that these two have done all this stuff individually. They have a lot of accomplishments on their own, but the fact that they've done it together in one place. They are the only duo to have 500 goals each for one franchise, other than Wayne Gretzky and Yari Curry. Only two duos have ever done that in NHL history.

So these two are just massive. And of course, it's Malkin who kind of leads the effort on the game tying goal, right? And Crosby gets the O.T. winner with an assist by Malkin. And then you have a little bit some of the quotes from last night of Malkin talking about Crosby. So Malkin got the assist on Crosby's 500th goal last season, the only assist on that goal. Crosby gets the only assist on Malkins 500th goal last night. So just like a classic game by a really important duo, not just in Pittsburgh sports history, but in NHL history, I would say.

So, Rob, just how significant was last night when we're talking about these two guys? Yeah, it's very significant. I think it was fitting. you know, the idea that those two would be connected on their respective 500th goals, which is something I completely ignored in my story, so I'm glad you mentioned it. I wrote about this in my piece. I always think back to 2014 when Crosby came back from the Olympics and Malkin came back in a really bad place mentally after the way it all went for Russia.

And I've talked with Malkin extensively about this, and Krosby too, about how that kind of became a moment where they went from being like teammates that, you know, that were good with each other and had had really great moments at that point. But that whole sequence where Malkin had this fighting disappointment from his home country. And Crosby was hearing the, you've only won once in coming off the concussion.

And he was hearing it like, you know, you could have made a case at that point. Either one of them was one of the best players in the world, if not the best. And but they were both sort of thought of as underachievers. And it kind of galvanized their friendship in a way that we see now. I always turn them into brothers or it started them on that path. And I think that's what I thought of right away last night when I saw for Sidney Crosby to on the power play where the penguins have struggled so much for the past year, do a between the legs pass to Malkin and him to score from the seat of his pants.

Like if you were going to draw it up, like, okay, how should Sidney Crosby setting up of getting Malkin for his 500th B? That would have been it. I would have been like, I need a ridiculous past. In like 2012 or something. Yes, right. And that's the thing. And then a ridiculous finish from Malkin.

And like it was, I don't know how to describe it other than when you sit at a game in the media level there. You're so high. And that was to my right. And you could see, you could almost see it happening in slow motion only because if you've been around them enough, you just get used to sort of their mannerisms. And you're like, okay, Sid's in that spot where he kind of can do things other guys can't. Malkins at the net and like, okay, it's happening. And I think it slowed down for some of us up there like it did for those two. And I really felt like they were the only two guys on the ice at that point.

Like I felt bad for the goalie. Like, you have no chance, buddy. It's a significant moment because you hit on something, Haley. You know, there, Gretzky Curry for the youngans out there. I mean, yeah, we think of Gretzky Messier, but I think a Gretzky Curry because they were just, you know, I think they're the highest scoring duo with one team in NHL history. And second is Sidney Crosby and Fgeny Malkin. And it's kind of weird to me because so many people look at Gretzky and Messier

because they were both centers as the Crosby Malkin archetype, right? I think of Gretzky Curry in a way because Curry was this phenomenal player in his own right, but overshadowed by Gretzky. That's certainly the case here in Pittsburgh. I think the difference is, you know, these guys are just always going to be penguins. That's exactly what I said last night. When we were lying up the show, that's the difference between Gretzky and Curry, Gretzky and Messier, Kane and Taves, like whatever, go down the list, really post-expansion

since there's been more than six teams in the NHL, you've had great players. you've had great players who were great together for a long time, but they always end up elsewhere. And that's not going to happen here. That's their choice. They've wanted that the way they want it. Yeah. I mean,

two years ago we were talking about a world where that wasn't going to happen, which is what made me so hateful about. Not just two years ago either. It was two months ago. Two months ago and six years ago and ten years ago, like there's been different points where, for whatever reason, whether it's, whether it's imaginary or ginned up stuff by Canadian media or Pittsburgh media or whatever, people have tried to pull those guys apart. And it's, and it's,

and it hasn't happened yet. And it doesn't seem like it's going to. Yeah, I'd be shocked if ever. I mean, I think the best thing I can say is, you know, we only know that, we only know what we see, but I've gotten to know these guys a little bit more than most. And their brother, their, their, their, their brother, is real. I mean, they are blood brothers this way. I mean, they even, LaTang fits into that. It is a big three in Pittsburgh, but I think people forget what those, what those two were tasked with. And, you know, something I think that needs to be said about the Malkin of it all is Crosby came into the NHL having to help save a league. And he did need Alex Ovechkin to sort of help carry that.

I think you need. But because of that, Crosby also had to help a franchise. They didn't have an arena deal. I don't think they were ever going to leave, but things weren't great financially for the Penguins. And when Malkin came here, it took some of that burden off Crosby. He didn't have to just, he didn't have to carry the league and the penguins almost by himself. He had a guy that could, at the very least, grow into a guy that could be his sort of,

you know, I always say the Batman to his Superman on the ice, not off the ice, but on the ice. And Malkin since then has grown into a guy that's really become a leader and a part of the fabric of Pittsburgh as a community, but certainly the Penguins is an organization. When I speak of them, I tend to speak of Crosby as sort of like this NHL type figure, this hockey history. This hockey history type figure. And in Pittsburgh, I think they go together. I really do. Like if there's going to be a statue, it should be of those two together. Because they, they're the reason the penguins, as we knew them, became what they became. They're the reason that to this day, to this day, when they are 38 and 37 respectively, they can have beginnings to the season like

this where, hey, Cindy Crosby's on pace per point per game at 37 years old. Ifgeny Malkin is the leading freaking score in the National Hockey League for the first time since he finished with his second Art Ross trophy. I'm not saying he's going to win the Art Ross trophy again. That in itself is amazing. And they have moments like they did Wednesday night, which they've always had. And it just erases all the mistakes about the penguins. Because as Sean has said before, I stole the line for my story. They're the Band-Aid. They're the Band-Aid. Yeah. There was a tweet. I think it was Pete Blackburn. And we, I don't know if we've been, that's not, I was going to say, I don't know how often we've been able to say this, but we definitely have,

like, Sydney Crosby had 41 goals last season. But last night was one of those games where the Pittsburgh Penguins had Sydney Crosby and of getting Malkin and the Buffalo Sabres didn't. And the penguins won and the sabers continue to lose. And I think Malkin is a big thing to get into here, though, because I think I tweeted it, but like this, there's a goal, just the way he's scoring. Like, this is a vintage Malkin starts the season, right? He's 38 years old. of the oldest players in the NHL right now, 11 points in five games to lead the league and scoring at this point. How significant, like, what does it mean for the penguins to have Evgeny Malkin playing this way at this point in his career?

It has to be completely unexpected. I give him a lot of credit. He changed his training this offseason to really focus on a different type of strength, not so much physical, you know, muscle, but really focused on his mobility and his soft tissues to get that one knee that's had surgery twice sort of in a good place. He's skating so well. You know, is he going to be a two-point of game player? No. I mean, but I think it's now possible that if he's healthy, both of these guys can be point-per-game players for the season. And if the penguins get 82 points each from Crosby and Malkin as sort of like the low water mark,

which by the way that's doable now. Malka is 11 points and this is the dominant. If they get any type of goal tending, they're going to make the play. Which I wouldn't have predicted. I totally agree. And this is the kind of play that we've seen from him

over the first 11 games that we hadn't seen in the last chunk, right? Where there's a 10 or 15 or 20 game stretch. God knows we've seen it more than enough over the course of his career, but this is the kind of run that was at, and productive as he was last year, by the way. like he was fine last year he was a good second line center which i think got lost in in the shuffle as as it tends to do with him but the being the best guy on the ice on not just not just for a

period not just for a game for like a two-week chunk this is what they've been missing from him as he's you know dealt with age and injury and in in whatever else well i'm looking at this way guys um for for six point one million dollars if he Malkins been fine. Absolutely. But if you're going to get a $9 million value performance out of Gennie Malkin at 38, and you're still going to get a $9 million value out of Sidney Crosby and you're not paying either $9 million against the cap, that's going to make some of the cap pain they

have with like overpaying Ryan Graves who's been a problem, the Tristan Jari of it all. That's a problem. They've got some tough contracts. And if Hvgeny Malkins is going to do this and sort of reinvaryinguality. invigorate Ricard Raquel as a goal score, you know, which looks like it's happening. Like, the thing that's different about those two is they can, they can drag the penguins to a completely different level. I don't think it's fair to ask them to do as much heavy lifting as they have to do at

this point in their career. But if they're capable of doing it, it's going to make Mike Sullivan's job easier. It's going to make Kyle Dubus's short-term job better and long-term job easier because he would be able to probably flip some guys that might piggyback off this in the offseason to get younger players or something. Like if they get this type of performance or even something close to this from both of these guys, but especially Malkin, not only does it make them a potential playoff team, that helps their revenue that helps ownership feel more confident about doing some of the things they want to do next summer. And it probably makes them more attractive if Kyle Dubus wants to take some cap money that might be freed up.

and make a run at somebody that's like, hey, look, I want to go in free agency and add to this. Last night, you know, I know, whatever, Sid had the winner, and there's, we alluded to some of this, there's plenty of other stuff going on with that team in the short and long term, which we'll get to that in segment,

which we will get into after the break. But last night, that felt like Malkin's night to me. Like, I know, I know those guys, you can't talk about one without the other, and you don't want to gloss over. over 1,600 points. You don't want to gloss over the overtime winner.

Now is Sid's stuff. But there was something about the way that game unfolded and the point in the season that we're at and all that's come before it over the last couple years. I don't know if it's because 500 is a more important number than 1600 or whatever. But that felt like a Malkin night to me. The two moments that I'll take were the cameras caught as everybody rushed Malkin after the 500th goal. Crosby and him had their

like, because of the height difference, Crosby's top of his helmet was kind of coming against the bottom of Malkin's shield. And you could see Crosby say something to him. And Malkin just kind of received whatever

they've said. And I tried to get both of them to tell me what was said and neither would. Shocked. And I just thought that was just a, I'm glad they didn't. Like, things we don't need to know. After the game, the way it ended up working out was they both came in to do interviews late for various reasons. And we were all waiting around Malkins stall. And he comes in and sits down and I'm sitting literally sitting to his left, as I normally do to end up having to ask most of the questions. And Crosby walks in with a couple of team employees.

and he just sat and leaned against the back of his stall and just he i don't want to call it a grin he looked like a proud older brother even though he's younger he just looked like he wanted this moment for mulkin so bad and that's why i asked him after the scrum what would have happened had the puck been his 1600th point and and the 500 goal and And he, you know, and he, Crosby's not keeping that puck. Well, Crosby said, I've split them before. Like, he, I think he talked about like something that happened with Pascal Dupuis. And he just, I mean, the quotes in the story, just, but he was just adamant.

Like, and I mean, he just said it so simply, he's like, that number is so big. And when Malkin was at doing the interview and he just said something that, you know, Fgetti's a very funny guy. And he knows how to work the media. But when he said, I want to talk myself for a moment, I'm proud of myself. I think we forget that as great as his numbers are, he's also dealt with a lot of injuries. He's also missed a chunk of time, that this is a guy that when you look at his point per game pace, though it's dipped a little because unlike Crosby, he's somewhat human.

This is a guy that I think people need to remember this. This is a good time to say it. For about a seven-year stretch, if it wasn't Sidney Crosby or Alex Ovechkin, was of Gettigdin, who was the best player in the world. Yeah, for sure. Which is why the penguins were always so upset that he was off the NHL 100 and why the Blackhawks ended up having three people from their team versus just one from that great penguins team. Because they always looked at it.

They will tell you, nobody in charge. Chicago was ever of getting Malkin. Nobody was ever the guy that went up against those two, who's going to be the greatest score ever and the guy that is the closest thing we've seen to Gretzky in terms of consistency and said, you know what? My best is as good as yours. And they didn't do it for as long. But seven years is a pretty long time to go one on one with those guys in their prime.

And he did it. Yeah. Malkin had stretches of his career where he was, if not the best player in the NHL. He was like the most dominant. like he just had that overpowering factor to his game. So lots to love about Evgeny Malkin and Sidney Crosby from Wednesday night. We're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, I've got some questions about Tristan Jari.

He's been very bad again. All right, welcome back. Rob Rossi is still here with us after a huge night in Pittsburgh on Wednesday. Penguins win 6'5 in overtime. despite another terrible start by Tristan Jari. He gets pulled after 11 and a half minutes, three goals. I think he allowed two goals in the first two shots he faced. He was cheered for his first save of the game.

He's allowed 12 goals and seven periods of hockey now to start the season. And he's being outplayed by a rookie with three NHL games under his belt. Rob, what's going on? Why is he doing this? He's going to sink them again. This is my penguin's fan coming out. Well, I don't know that they're going to give him a chance to sink them. I do get the sense from talking to people that he may have to be on the roster,

although that may not be the case if this continues. But they're not going to play them unless they have to in a certain situation back to back or something. He definitely doesn't deserve it. Yeah, I mean, look, they started Yol Blumfist in a game in Toronto after he had played, okay in Detroit and like it's um you know what concerned me last I was talking I was talking with Josh Joey who's actually writing about this for Friday I asked them after the game last night what what alarmed you most about Jari and he kind of did what I did was like when you asked me like there's a lot of clouds there how do I just pick one and it's like I said well here was

he goes well what was about you I said it wasn't the goal Tristan Jari can handle the puck. He's an elite puck handler. This is a guy that scored an empty net goal just a year ago. Watch the sequence that leads to the first goal. He freezes. It reminded me of game five against the Islanders in 2021, where he had had a bad game one and was the reason they lost. They're in overtime. And he makes a play, a decision. to move the puck right to an Islander's player. When he had options, like when you look at it, it's like, oh, there are options there. Malkin was at the board to his left.

There was a guy to his right. Like, he made the wrong call. That's what concerns me because Tristan Jari has all the physical tools to be a really high-end goal tender in this league. When he's not performed well, you've heard the Penguins say, you know, it's preparation habits, and I don't think that means he doesn't practice hard. It's, is he putting himself in the right frame of mind to perform well? Last night, he froze.

Last night, a penguin's crowd jeered a goaltender or booed a goaltender for the first time that I can remember. They once jeered Matt Murray and Hvgeny Malkin tore the crowd to shred, saying like, this isn't Philadelphia, we don't do that. That was for jeering him. him. Okay. This, they booed him last night. They wanted him out of the game. And I don't know right now if the penguins can play Tristan Jari in Pittsburgh Friday night when they come back from Western Canada. Like, I don't know if this is an environment where you can even put him in a game

in this city right now where it's going to be good. And I can't stress this enough. This is a crowd that when Mark Andre Fleury and Sean will test this when he did come to games, when Flurry was at his lowest, they would begin the games with Flurry, Flurry. Like, this is a crowd that for whatever you want to say about Penguin fans, they have tried to pick their struggling players up inside that building. This is a real problem for the Penguins because he can't play right now. what are they going to do when Adelkevich is NHL ready?

Like are they, is there, is there any reason to think that that could lead to some, you know, something other, like, I, like,

is Tristan Jare going to play in the H.L? Like, is that even, like, are they going to try to, is there going to try to some fake injury? Like, like,

like, or are they, are they going to be comfortable leaving Adelcovich in, in Wilkesbury until, you know, until the stuff really hit. Because you can't, you can't,

you can't keep, you can't, You got to play Blankfist right now. I think he's shown more than enough to play until he gives him a reason not to. And Nadelcovich, by the way, has been sent to the HL on a conditioning loan. Yeah. Today, like this morning as we've been recording, it just happened. I think Nadelcovick's going to go with them or going to meet them, either go with them or meet them after the Winnipeg game Sunday afternoon when they go through the Western Canada part of it next week. I would expect we'll see Alex Nandalkovich in Edmonton,

which means we probably won't see Tristan Jari until plays in his hometown of Vancouver, which is a back-to-back for the Penguins. I think that's going to be the biggest start of his career. I don't know Kyle Dubas well enough to know where he's at with this, but if Tristan Jari in Vancouver has a similar situation, so I guess what I'm saying is I think Bluffis is going to go down next week. I think they're going to go with these two.

I think it's now on the table that you have to start talking about, will you waive Tristan Jari? And if he clears waivers, which I would expect, he goes to the H.L. You only save $1.15 million in the cap. I don't think it's about cap savings. I think, you know, you can't tell Sidney Crosby and Fagney Malkin,

hey, you guys are going to be playing like it's 10 years younger. Yeah. And this team's off to a better start than anybody imagined. And we're going to put a goalie in net that is going to just, require you guys to be, you know, 25 year old versions of yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

So this is my big problem or my big kind of point. And I think it leads really night. Like we just had this big conversation about Crosby and Malkin and the way that they're playing right now. I think for what it's worth, like Crosby got his first goal the season last night. The Penguins are tied for first in the league and goals four. And Sidney Crosby only has one of them.

Like the whole body. bottom six issue that we've been complaining about in Pittsburgh for two, three years now, more than that, the bottom six hasn't really been the problem this year. Like, problem number one, this season right now, and even at the end of last season, has been Tristan Jari. And you can't let this guy sink this ship again. Like you just can't. I agree with, I agree with that, Haley.

I will say this. I fear that any goaltender for them is going to be broken eventually. They are hemorrhaging chances. Yeah. I think if Carlson-Latang Yeah, I mean, Carlson and Latang on Wednesday night had, like I once one point said to somebody like,

they're having a contest to see who can be on the wrong side of the puck more. And it's like there's a big prize at the end for who wins. It's not a great defense core in terms of defending. I think they have Marcus Pedersen and that's about it. And if you want to talk about Dark Days in Penguin's history, Kyle Dubis signed within like 30 hours of each other, Tristan Jari and Ryan Graves, to long-term contracts, which are, which are, I mean, which this is going to be the radio fodder in

Pittsburgh today on the local station, which contract is worse? Well, actually, you know, the best thing about the penguins locally is that the goaltending controversy, if there is one, is kind of being overshadowed by the quarterback controversy for the Steelers. And I don't know that there's a controversy in Pittsburgh with a goaltending. Like, it's like, I think most reasonable fans are like, we get it. He has an unmovable contract. Yeah.

And you can't just play one goalie all the time, whether he's a rookie because he's not used to that workload or whether it's Nadalcovic because he kind of gets injured a bunch. So the main reason he's really, the main reason he's not, the main reason just Jerry's playing at all is because Alex Nadelcovich is hurt. Like that's just, that's just the way it is. He would have played maybe. He would have had one start. Nadelcovic was going to be the opening night starter. And he wasn't going to be declared the number one. but he was going to be the de facto number one because they weren't going to give it to Jari.

And I just hope not because I'm a fan. I mean, you guys both know, I'm not. But I would, for the story telling me, if they're going to put together this sort of season where it's like, how the hell is all this going right? I hope we don't end up looking at like Tristan Jari ended up making like four starts over the first five weeks. And they just got, he just gave them no chance or whatever like that. Yeah, that's the points that cost them. But by the way, it's possible.

I wish we didn't lose the Chicago Blackhawks in October or whatever. For the record, by the way, by the way, we're talking about the bottom six. Like, those guys have been good. The Eller Polly-RV drew O'Connor line at five-on-five. There it's 67% expected. How many third-liners score the goal that Pooley-R-V did last minute? I mean, that's, you know. The nifty-lifty.

That's what I called it. The nifty-lifty-lifty. That's what I'm a two. from Jesse P. It's amazing what having two functioning hips can do for a guy, right? I give him so much credit, by the way. I mean, I thought he was done as an NHL player. That surgery was just, you know, and, and he's, and you know, that third line of O'Connor,

Eller and do you want me to try to say his last name? Go for it. Yeah, let's see. Let's see. Jesse Poole. I just want to say it quickly, so don't think about it. Just, Jesse Pim, Jesse Pulman, R. Is that Pooley, Pooley, Pooley.

Pulli Harvey. Think about a pool party. It's kind of like... You know what? I can probably say it better than I could spell it. I just refer to him as Jesse P on Twitter. But Jesse Pooley RV is... is now you got me stuttering.

Sorry. No, he's killing it, man. He's been great. Yeah. And the fourth line too. Kevin Hayes been really good. Kevin Hayes has been really good. Yeah.

Hayes Glass, Achari is up over. 65% and like like these guys are these guys are controlling their minutes and i just want to say i just want to say like two days into the season i said to sean you know i don't hate that kevin hayes noel achari fourth line and he said okay oh by the way they're not paying kevin hayes anything that cap hits like jesse p's on like basically like a nothing contract drew o'connor's on an entry-level contract like i've been harder on kyle do this is special bottom six. He's,

he's, he's, he's remade a bottom six that has been a very effective. And if that's going to be the case, and you're going to get the big boys, big boying. You need goal tend to have goaltending,

sink them again. It cost them in 21. It cost them in 22. It costs them in 23. And it cost them in 24, when Jari couldn't play the last 13 games, everyone was like, Ned was great.

Now, Sidney Crosby was superhuman. And if Gendi Malkin kind of got his mojo back, and Ned was okay. If this team gets okay goaltending and their power play actually looks functional, which it does, it does. They're better than I thought. And Sean is my witness. What did I say to him?

I'm like, they're closer to bottom five than they are, you know, top eight. I was like you were you were edging around them being a being a bottom five. Because all the things we talked about like, well, Crosby can't keep this up. Is Malkin really going to, the bottom six is like the defense doesn't defend the power play? like all those things. Please don't let goaltending destroy what might be the last time we get to see these guys go after something significant. Like I don't even care.

Like I'm a Pittsburgher. I don't care. It's just good for me. I want to stay employed. Please, hockey God. Tristan. Tristan, please.

And I like Tristan. I actually get along with him. Like I actually, there's part of me that I don't. Cold heart. Like I, yeah. Well, like, I actually. I actually feel bad for the guy from this standpoint.

I don't think he knows what the fix right now. I don't think there's like a, you know, there's not a, this is the Rossi curse writ large. Like you did your big nice Trish and Jari profile at the start of the season. And then he went in the tank. So this in some ways might be your fault. I'll do anything to sink the penguins as their fans tell me all the time. Yeah.

He's been a problem. Jari, not me. who's to say. Call me a Colmere. You better not come down to Pittsburgh for a visit after that, Colin Haley. Yeah. No one will see me at PPG paints arena. I'll be sitting in the parking lot across the street.

Memories. Hey, there's a building there now. It's almost got people in it. That's great. All right. Thanks so much for this, Rob. I think we're going to take a break. Sean and I'll come back and talk about something.

But Penguins were the big story of Wednesday night. we had the best to break it down for us. Thanks, Rob. Thank you. All right. So it's not a full Penguins power hour today. Good. But we are going to talk about the Colorado Avalanche to finish the show because I think that is, if the penguins are the star of the show or the biggest news from Wednesday night, I think the abs are the second bill here.

They lose again this time to the Boston Bruins five to three. They are 0 and 4 to start the season. This is just the second time in team history. They have had that kind of start, and it's the first since 1998-99. This is a very poor start by the Colorado Avalanche. And I know there's been a lot of shows in the last two weeks about early season overreactions. When is it too soon to start panicking? And we did a lot of preseason content on this podcast, and I'm going to own this here as the host.

I will take this on the teeth. We did not a lot, a lot of time to dive into the abs because I think I just looked at them as like, whatever, like they've got Kail McCar and Nathan McKinnon and Miko Ranton. They're fine. Maybe we should have been looking at them a little further because they've got a couple of injuries here, obviously absences that we knew about heading into the season when we're talking about Gabriel Landisog and Nchuskin, but Devon Taves has missed two straight games. now and all of a sudden you're looking at the avs lineup and you're like oh was it was it this

thin did i miss something here i mean the main issue for them coming in the season was no natu shuskin no landa scog but also anticipating getting both of them back in some capacity during the season which means like that you don't have cap space like you need to you need to account for those guys salaries and you also don't you can't go spend the money elsewhere right yeah huge problem uh there their depth would be a problem for them if those guys, if those guys were healthy, frankly.

So there was always going to be issues on the second and third line there. And they're getting F minus goal tending from Alexander Georgian on top of it, right? Like he started four games. So, you know, it's a little out of whack. He's going up against some guys who started two and three and four. But he's last in the league and expected goals or goals allowed above expected.

He's at nearly minus nine in two starts. That math does not work. You're giving up two goals per game that you shouldn't, if that's the way you want to look at it. And that is nuking whatever positive stuff they have going on at five on five, which does exist. You know, they're not. And they're not, they're not a terrible defensive team.

They're, you know, they've got their top six in expected goals against, you know, in defense. at a per 60 rate, you know, everything's where it needs to be basically at five on five for them. They're scoring goals. They're defending well enough. Yes, the depth isn't there, but that's something that, you know, you would think they can overcome as long as they're not getting, you know, getting the kind of play that they've got from Yorgev, who's been just abysmal.

So I guess it's now 25 goals against. It's crazy. And that's, Giorgiv's been pulled three twice now. Did he get pulled last night? Like, it's just, it's not good. We just had this big conversation about how Tristan Jari, you can't let Tristan Jari sink the penguins.

And you have to, I know he, Giorgiv's not the only problem, but the aves are leading. Actually, it's funny enough, the aves and the penguins are 31 and 32 and goals against. But the abs have the worst goal differential in the NHL right now. And that is with, you know, reigning MVP, Nathan McKinnon and Kail McCarr. And I think a big problem. I've never, I've never really seen Kail McCar talk about himself this way after the loss to, it was a 6-2 loss to the Islanders on Monday night. and he said, this is a closer game if I'm not playing in it,

which is just crazy to hear Kail McCar talking that way because we know the kind of player this guy is when he's at his best. And I do think that, you know, I think one of the things we did talk about in the preseason was this idea of, hey, maybe Oliver Schillington can find his game and add a good element to that blue line in Colorado. and the fit is not there in the early part of the season with Shillington and Kail Makar on that top pair. That is not working. These last two games, I think Shillington stuck out in bad ways last night, and Kale hasn't been playing very well.

So they've got to figure out the mix without Devon Taves. But again, it's that question of, is the depth really that poor that you have one injury? And I know Devon Taves is very important. Like this isn't just an injury to some guy on the blue line. This is an injury to, you know, a top pair number 1D, the guy who just clicks with your star. But the depth there is concerning. If we're talking about like maybe Calvin DeHan needs to play on the top pair with Calman Car. It's not good, but also what were they supposed to do?

They don't have money and they're waiting for two big ticket. guys to hopefully eventually come back. And a lot of the, some of their issues too are that the big boys playing together. If you look at, if you look at them, if you look at the menace last year where McKinnon and Ranton and McCar and Taves played together, they were really good, but they weren't, this wasn't Megatron. This wasn't, you know, this, this wasn't, they weren't clicking on the level that you need to when you're as top heavy as they are. It's one thing to be top heavy if your guys can can perform at a

superhuman level. And they have in the past, but last year represented a little bit of a step down. We wrote about this in the in the avalanche and the avalanche season preview. And I think some of that has continued, right? So you don't have this superhuman play to cover up for the depth issues. And then the goaltending, you know, we're beating a dead horse, but it's true. You know, in all, in all situations, they've allowed 25 goals and they've, and they've been expected. to allow less than 13. Like they're like minus 12 in that particular stat. Like you're not even given yourself a chance.

So there's plenty of reasons. You know, this has gone as bad as it has with Emily Sirley on. Mm-hmm. Jesse Granger and Eric Stevens had a pretty interesting story and very timely one that came out this morning about should the abs pursue a trade for Ducks goalie John Gibson. He has been hurt.

It doesn't seem like he really wants to leave. Anaheim either, like, despite the fact that it would probably benefit both the organization and the player. It doesn't really seem like this is something that's ever actually going to happen for whatever reason. But it was an interesting back and forth between Eric who covers the ducks, the kings, and the San Jose sharks. He just does so much for California coverage. And Jesse, who's kind of the goalie expert on the site. We don't have time to get into the entire thing. But the point is, is Giorgev isn't getting it done. He was shaky last season, despite leading all goalies and wins for a second straight year.

But he's allowed 20-something goals in his first four starts. I know there's been some empty netters. Small sample size, but the body of work over the last year plus in Colorado has been pretty concerning. And they don't really have a great number two option. They've got a young, they've got a 24-year-old kid. they claimed capococconin off waivers, but it just feels like, is there something that can be done to get an external

improvement when you're looking at your number one goalie? But I think there's also a question of like, where's Gibson at this point in his career too, regardless of if he can or should be traded, like, is he going to be the upgrade that they need? I think at this point you just take a competent NHL goaltender, But the issue with Gibson is he makes a ton of money. And they basically have cap holds on, again, Landis Kog and the Chushkin.

Like if you think those guys are coming back, you have to account for their salaries in season. And that's going to cause some issues and make for some tough decisions for them. The concern, you know, this story is great. In terms of goals saved above expected from 2015 to 2019, John Gibson was better than anybody. But it's not 2019 anymore. And things have not gone well for the ducks or John Gibson, and it's getting hard to separate. Obviously, we know that the ducks are in a rebuild and they're not good,

but I think it's getting hard to think like, oh, well, John Gibson's great. It's just the ducks are bad. Like that line is starting to get blurred in 2024. And I wonder if you're the abs or even the penguins at this point. You're probably looking at some other teams who have tried to do the goalie shuffle. well, he was bad there, maybe he'll be good here. Like, Darcy Kemper hasn't had a good start in L.A.

They've lost three in a row. He was not good a couple nights ago, and he's hurt already. Goaltending, baby. Golly Juju. I try not to do that because I think it's just lazy for media members and podcasters to say, well, I'm not going to talk about goalies because they're bad juju, but sometimes it's just really hard to predict. and it's a really important position.

So I've heard. I think Rob mentioned at a time or two. I think it's still too early in the season to write off a team with Cal McCar and Nathan McKinnon and Miko Ranton, but it's not too early to say they've got to, they're searching for answers,

they're o' and four, something's got to give. I mean, we know who Alexander Georgiav is at this point. That's not going to change. Kyle McCar and Nathan McKinnon are going to change, but neither is that goal tender, and neither is their third and fourth line. Yeah. We'll see.

All right. That was our Nova Scotia themed episode. And actually, in the next segment, we're going to talk about Brad Marchand for 35 minutes. Not true. False. All right. Thanks, everyone for listening to the athletic hockey show. If you're a Spotify listener, by the way, you can now leave comments on our episodes.

I'm not going to read them. because some of you are very mean to me. Mm-hmm. But if you want to leave questions for us, we can read those ones. But if you have anything to say that is mean about me, I won't be reading. The Prospect series is,

Sean just rolled his eyes in such a foul way. New segment, actually. Third segment starting next week, Sean is going to read the mean comments back to me and then we could do some ASMR of me crying. The third segment is Haley pretending that she doesn't read the comments. That's what the, that's what the theme is. Lying to you guys directly and saying that she doesn't read every comment that's ever been left on any piece of work that she's ever done.

I do. I do. There could be 50,000 views on a story, but Tom R tells me that it sucked. And I'm like, well, I guess I quit. The Prospect Series is all new tomorrow. Max, Las, and CJ on the athletic hockey show on Monday. Me and Sean are gone. We'll be back next week.

Thank you.