The Athletic Hockey Show - Are the Hurricanes doomed?

Episode Date: May 21, 2025

Sean, Frank and Sean discuss the Panthers game one win over the Hurricanes, Carolina's strategy to get in the face of Sergei Bobrovsky and their inability to score in the conference final. The guys talk about the Mitch Marner era in Toronto ahead of looking forward to the Western Conference final between Edmonton and Dallas, and if today's athletes do indeed have challenges winning in big markets?Hosts: Sean Gentille and Sean McIndoeWith: Frankie CorradoExecutive Producer: Chris FlanneryProducer: Jeff Domet Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This is the Athletic Hockey Show. What up, what up? It's the Athletic Hockey Show Wednesday edition. I am in Raleigh, North Carolina, where I'm covering the Eastern Conference Finals. I am joined this morning, as I so often am, by my friend Sean McIndoo and Frankie Carrado.

Guys, how are we doing? We'll just start at the start. Did we watch that game this night? Of course. I hope so. Of course we did. Hey, let me ask you this. Like, I've, I've been down to rally a number of times. I was down there doing a game earlier this season, and I was faced with a really difficult

decision for my lunch, my pregame meal lunch. P.F. Chang's or Cheesecake Factory. Given the two options, where are you going and why? Oh, Frank, it sounds like you were over by the Crabtree Valley Mall, home of so many different Shane signing options. I was at, I hit that cheesecake factory during the last round. It was

pretty average as far as cheesecake factories go, but I think you almost have to do that. I'm out on, I'm out on Chang's. I can't, I can't do it. I wish I, wish I enjoyed it more. It'd be, it's fun for the bit, but I, I

think I, I think I got to go cheesecake. I wish you saw me deliberate between the two. I don't know if you've ever seen that meme of like the old lady like going in like three different directions she's here she's there like it comes up a lot on my algorithm because i have kids and young kids when it's like there's a million things going on you're like i got to do this i got to do that and it's like so that's what i was doing i was like do cheesecake do i do pf changs ended up doing cheesecake it was it was heavy not going to lie but uh it's all good man it was all good just like that just like that game like

that's a that's two heavy teams going at it with the way they play there we go there's our frankie segue in the week this episode is brought to you by the rally tourism bureau there's plenty is it beautiful there's a lot of raleigh north carolina it's uh sean gentilly is the new spokesperson oh there's plenty there's plenty of great stuff here just not by the crab tree valley mall everybody um yeah that's like i feel like what we saw last night from Carolina and Florida was, you could set your watches by that. That felt like the,

that felt like the game one we were destined to have in the series. That was one of my big takeaways coming out of it. I don't know if you guys agree or not. I think like my biggest, and my biggest thing, obviously outside of Florida winning in the fashion that they won is Carolina really made it a point to bump Bobrovsky a ton in that game.

And that's not. something that we saw pretty much, we didn't see that at all in the Toronto series. And Bob is so good. We know that. We know how he can steal games, steal a series. Like the presence in front of him is obviously very important, but they took it like an extra step further where they were like, not only are we going to be in front of you, we're actually, you know, we're going to do the accidentally on purpose thing, which is

something Florida does really well. And Svechnikov, I mean, he barely even did the accidentally part of that equation. He just. it was not subtle. Right in the head on purpose. But that's okay in this league. We learned that last round. So was that neat?

Was it near? Was it near hip? Just entire, you know, his leg, full leg? A little bit. A low leg body. He's got a Charlie horse. But Brobsky's head.

It shouldn't have been standing there. He's got a Charlie horse, man. Yeah, he's got a, yeah, he's got a, yeah, spetched as a quad contusion from, from Bob's face. Yeah. We were all very disappointed that Paul Maurice didn't go in on that because we all had our, hey, somebody put his hair out now that it's on fire, takes ready to go. I actually, I missed the act flat elbow.

I saw I saw he sharpen him back up after Jackson Blake's late goal. I was down in the press. Late and writing. Yep. Just absolutely forearm shiver to the. That's another one. Shouldn't have been standing there. What are you doing?

Should not have been standing there. Okay. you know what, like from, I feel like this series is not going to be like a huge X's and O series. Like there's always that like who's making the adjustments, who's doing the game within the game with both these teams. And we've said this, I've said this a lot about the Panthers this year. And you could say the same for the Carolina Hurricanes. There is absolutely no surprises as far as what you're getting from there. There's no trickery.

There's not a lot of, you know, like things that are outside the box. the Panthers do the same thing, shift after shift. They're going to clog things up. They're going to make it difficult for you to carry the puck. You have to dump it in and you have a hard time getting it back. Carolina Hurricanes, we know what their hockey is all about. Is it boring? Sure.

Is it effective? Yes. Is it going to be effective against the Florida Panthers? We'll have to see because that's, you know, that's something that as much as there's no surprises and we know we're going to get, they might have to make some kind of adjustment because clearly now if you go back to two years ago, we're five games in. And what they do, just for whatever reason, doesn't work against the Florida Panthers.

So it's not an X's an O series, but Carolina might have to find some kind of systemic adjustment if they want to have success against this Panthers team. I feel like Brindamore in particular has been asked several times over the last few days. Basically, like, is there anything you can do differently?

and the answer in one way or another has been like kind of no like he he got asked he got asked pregame um i i have the direct i have a direct quote in front of me actually because i i transcribe it because i thought it would probably be relevant later in the series he got asked specific he got asked again about the idea and it's a cliche and it's been said many times over the last couple weeks couple years that the hurricanes are easy to prep against and tough to play. And the question was like, do you like hearing that? Is that something you, is that something that bothers you? Is that something you like to hear?

He said, 100% and that's what you want to hear. Stop it. Right? Florida, I can tell you what they're going to do. We can go through their game plan. I know it. Nobody has been able to stop it. That's it in a nutshell.

The good teams, I got the best video coach in the world and he said 10 minutes in, the good teams I know what they're doing stop it there you go and that's what that's what that's what that's what that's what rod said last night and I think that's kind of what we saw I think that's

did stop it and they stopped it uh that's and they stopped it and they found away early especially especially in the first in the first period like maybe the first the first chunk of the second they they were they were breaking the pressure like they're in they were doing it

and they were doing it with passing And they were doing it in a way that we haven't seen all that consistently. It varies points throughout this postseason. And then, you know, sure enough, a little bit after the first intermission, you know, the game normalizes a little bit in the, and maybe the canes stop chasing it to some extent. But by that point, it's two nothing. And they're the Carolina hurricanes. And it's tough for them to come back from Leeds.

I mean, you talk about breaking the pressure. And I think it's relevant. at five on five. It's also relevant at five on four from Carolina's standpoint because the Panthers get two power play goals and that's the best penalty kill in the regular season in Carolina. And the way I see that penalty kill is anytime the first player with pressure goes, the second guy's not far behind. It's a timing thing. And if the timing is off or you make a play that kind of throws off the timing, well, now you're your two guys removed and you're going to have opportunities, like little pockets of ice that you can kind of, you know, expose.

And so credit the Panthers for doing that, but the same goes for them at five on five. Once you break that first pressure, if you can make a quick play, it's like now things, things can open up. When teams try and suffocate you, like once you break that, like that, there's, there's a lot of room there. And I think, like even from Florida, like DGB, remember game seven, Panthers, Leafs, the second half of the first period. I know you've wiped it from your memory.

The second half of the first period, that last 10 minutes, remember Toronto's fourth line was getting all these crazy chances? You're like, what is happening? They broke the pressure. And when you break it, like, things will open up for you. So that's, I mean, that's a challenge on both sides, but that's the thing that I think the Panthers did really well in game one. You know, just finding those pockets between the first and second layers of pressure.

And that's something that certainly the Washington Capitals weren't doing. Like I think it was in the deciding game of that last round. At one point on the kill, Carolina had all four penalty killers in Washington's zone. They were all, like they had sustained pressure from all. There was nobody back. It was all all four guys, you know, a stride or two inside Washington's blue line. And it was, it was noticeable. And you can get away with that when you're playing the capitals, especially on the, especially on the kill because they have, they have one guy out there at five on four who just kind of hangs out and waits for, waits for everyone else to gain the zone and do the work.

And they're learning in a hurry, you know, if they didn't know it before, that that ain't how it works with the Florida Panthers. I'm really curious to see how perception of this series evolves. Because right now on paper, you have got a team that everyone has spent the last month calling boring. And a team that everyone has spent the last two years calling dirty. This is very well set up to be the series that like the public at large turns on and just goes, man, I don't like watching either of these teams. Now, sometimes when something seems obvious like that, we get the opposite. So maybe these two teams deliver something really, really fun and a real classic edness.

But especially after that first game, right, like, you can just see, and don't get me wrong, if you're a Panthers fan or Hurricanes fan, you don't care. We've been over this. We don't need to keep saying that, by the way. Like, I feel like you're not the entertainment. If your fans are like, yes, we know, we know. Like, no apologies. But you do need to say it because otherwise they show up in your mentions.

Some of them. Four of them are going to complain. And it's always the same. It's, for the rest of us, I wonder which way this goes. Because it feels like it's one or the other. It feels like this,

you know, this time next week when we're a few more games into this, we're either going, oh God, we got to talk about this series or we're going, you know what? Hold on a second. This is,

this is really something. But you guys can at least be happy for me that I get to spend a couple days and beach adjacent in Fort in Fort Lauderdale. Yeah. I'm not even jealous of you. Not even jealous of you. I'm trying here. Like, we could talk about pressure and breaking the pressure and penalty kill and all that

kind of stuff. If Freddie Anderson can't come close to Sergey Brabowski, then it's going to be a short series again. And I'm not saying he's got to play Besna caliber hockey. But he can't, you know, he can't be a 750 save percentage in a game where he had 20 shots on him. Like, he's, and, you know, to this point, let's call a spade a spade. He has, he's been the best statistical goaltender in the playoffs this year by goals save above expected. Like, he's been unbelievable.

He'd probably get some MVP love if, you know, the playoffs ended today. I think if nothing else, he's the, he's their con candidate at this point. Yeah, yeah. But he's, he's got to, like, he's got to find another level here at this point. point in the playoffs. And, and, you know, I'm curious about how that game looked on TV for you guys, because I was from the press box, it was, I don't know that any of the goals looked all that egregious, but also, also he led in a bunch of them.

Like, that was, that was sort of my, my, my, my, my takeaway. Did that, did that look bad on TV? It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not egregious. It's just, you need to save every once in a while. Like, you got to save one that, maybe you're not, it's not cooked in, that, that, that you, you, you know, it's an automatic save. But I think there's a couple where, and I'm not like going to get into like the specifics of goalie breakdowns.

And, and, you know, that's not my, you know, that's not my M. But like, if you're one on one shooter versus goalie,

advantage should be to the goalie. Right. So like make a couple of those saves, which he had opportunities to do last night. He just, he just didn't do. Because what? The,

the Lister, or what, it wasn't Listerona. Yeah, it was. It was the last goal from Locerana. And he was in, he was in by himself.

there were some well even the the first goal right the Carter Verhagie you like that was a phenomenal backhand that is an absolute piece of our work but also

you shouldn't be beaten clean on a on a backhand and I get the room there like there's a little too much room there and and you know you give the guy an inch over each shoulder and if he hits it he hits it but you'd like him to to not hit it

Frankie, maybe you specifically on this. Did you see Brindamore's post game last night at all? Did you see in any video? No, I didn't. I still have the memories of that wasn't a sweep in the back of my mind from two years ago. Yeah, no kidding, man. I wrote last night with that in the back of my head too. I'm not sure what I'm looking for from him necessarily.

I don't want him to go out, you know, what do we want from them? Do we want them to go out there and pound a podium and, you know, tear into his team and talk about effort and whatever else? When maybe he liked the effort, no. But I was, I got major, major flashback to 2023 with the, with the overall vibe from him and the overall vibe from the rest of the hurricanes. It's like, it's like, yep, nope, we're close. like steady she goes and whatever and I get it you you need you need to keep that mindset especially early in a series but also this is now a team that has lost five consecutive conference finals games to to the guys on on the other side of it and I something needs to change

I don't know exactly what I don't know if I don't know if Rod needs to get mad or whatever but I don't think it's it's not it's not what is that it's not getting mad we just we talked about how this isn't an X's and O series, but the Carolina Hurricanes, whatever they do for some reason, it doesn't match up well against the Florida Panthers. And here's an interesting, you know, I guess thought. You know, with Carolina,

we have talked about it in the past, how offense seems to dry up at a certain point of the playoffs. Well, you could say that we're here now. Like, this is where it generally has happened for them. And there's never really been that, one guy that just is on a heater and you can't stop him or those couple guys that are on heaters. Well, Svecnikov's got, what, eight goals and 11 games. Like, he's been really good to this point as far as goal scoring goes.

If you look at the Florida Panthers, the example that I will give you is game five and game seven against Toronto. They had 12 different goal scores over those two games. And not one of those guys was Barkoff or Kachuk. So we can talk about how you need guys to be on heaters and, you know, offensively inclined, whatever. The Florida Panthers are doing it as a team. And if you look at the point totals, you know, Barkov's goal total, a little underwhelming. Kachuk's goal total, a little underwhelming.

But the points are there. And so the team's success that the Panthers are having, you know, you would look at the numbers for those guys and say, okay, that's breeding individual success. and their respectable numbers. And then it's only a matter of time until those guys, you know, find more as far as goal scoring goes. So if we're playing by the same rulebook,

why can't that apply to the Carolina Hurricanes? Why do they need to have the Svetnikov, Ajo, Jarvis, heater of all heaters? Because it's just, if the Panthers aren't doing it, it's hard. And, you know, like I just think it's going to be done as a team in this series. any way you slice it.

And it's also, I mean, let's not forget that when they're not being the dirtiest bunch of dirtbags that ever dirtbagged, the Panthers are a team that's got two Selty finalists ready to throw out there against you. So it's hard to be a one-line team against these guys. But you know, guys, you know what's going to get spicy if we get a few more games into this? And that becomes the story that Carolina's not scoring. How is this for a take? they should have kept Miko Rattinen should have kept Rantinan for this playoff run

we're going to hear that we might hear that today that's that that's going to happen they got they get one more they get one more loss before that before that dials up one more loss where it's like oh there's no there's no alf out there that's

one more loss one more one more period you know where they get out scored I think is is the over under on it absolutely well like that and I love this business. We just all like, spend two months blowing smoke up Carolina's behind. I'm talking about how great Logan Stankov and this and yada, yada, yada,

30% of hockey media has that tweet in the drafts already, just in different words. They have it ready to go. But like we talk about like I think Rod Brindamore is an outstanding coach. You can't argue the results that he's gotten year after year with his team. But it does say something. and I know it was weird circumstances, you know, Miko Rentonan got traded, didn't think he was going to get traded,

was dealing with that. It does say something that a highly skilled player couldn't adapt to that system and have that success right away. Whereas, you know, in Dallas, it's going well for him, clearly. So, you know, maybe there is a little bit of a, I don't know, not a,

like some kind of audit that needs to be done as far as can highly, highly skilled players, a guy like Miko Ranton, can they have offensive success playing the system that the hurricanes do play? One more Hurricanes question for you guys, and then we'll split on this. Common complaint, common criticism about that team,

about that coach, is that they treat games in October, the same as January, the same as May. And that maybe on some level, or they come as close as you can to that, right? And maybe on some level, that just means that what we see from them

in the regular season is their level. That's their best. They put it out there on a Tuesday against the ducks, whatever. So whenever the stakes raise and other teams dial it up, the canes are already at 10. And that there's not much more of a margin, that there's not much more of a ceiling for them to,

for them to hit. It's a common criticism and it's something I was thinking about last night because Rod's been asked about it a couple times and I couldn't help but find myself wondering about it in watching game one. What do we think of that? It's a good point, but it's not just when teams dial it up because New Jersey, they tried to dial it up.

Washington tried to dial it up. It's when a team like the Panthers dials it up. That's when it becomes, right? Like that's when it comes to the forefront. You're like, okay, you got through those guys, but we're facing the elite of the elite, and they can crank it to 11. And then what happens?

Yeah. Then what happens? You lose five straight games to that team in the playoffs. And let's be honest, you talk about already. being a 10 out of 10 in the regular season. The Panthers clearly were not. The Panthers, that was our question

about them during the season, right? You're looking at them going, this is like a 90-ish point team. Is this really what we're dealing with? Or is this a team that is maybe holding back and we got our answer. We've had it through the playoffs so far. We got some prime Paul Maurice on that,

on that whole thing too. I got a couple days ago during the, during the pre-ECF. media session where he basically said like it was an adjustment like figuring out how to how to deal with you know different different motivations and maybe putting different carrots on on the stick during the regular season especially with their schedule their regular season schedule was hellacious too so that was something they were dealing with right it was tons of back tons of back to backs for for a stretch they were in finland they were this they were that and then they also had to figure out

you know, how to how to find a non-motivation to, you know, compete during the regular season. And it was a challenge. And he talked about it and he was really interesting. So I think Rousseau included that in a post on the site. All right. That's probably it for Eastern Conference Finals. We're going to jump back for segment two. We have some Leafs talk just because we're contractually obligated for that.

Also, we have Leaf Superfan number one and former Leafs defensemen weigh in on that. And we're also going to preview the Western Conference Finals, which gets started tonight. So stick around. We'll be right back. All right, we're back. It's day four of the Leaf's latest, newest era of sadness. I would like to just roll the ball to center court and leave it to you guys to share your thoughts on breakup day and whatever's come. We don't need to rehash game seven.

We've done that more than enough. But we have, we're still living in the, in the post-mortem. And I'm wondering, wondering how you guys are dealing with what seems to be the end of an era, capital, capital,

I don't normally do this, but I'm going to, I'm going to take issue with one word in that intro. Uh-huh. New. It's nothing new. It was air quotes. It was air quotes.

It was air quotes. New. I did actually. So many times. Um, and yeah, you know what? To contort a phrase. that we heard a million times during this leaf season, which was, is it different?

Are these guys different? Is this team different? Okay. Well, push came to shove. No, not at all. So now we're in that weird kind of liminal post-mortem space where the players have cleaned out the lockers, but we don't know what changes are actually coming. We haven't heard from the bosses yet as of when we're recording this.

We're dropping, we're dropping liminal space here on the athletic hockey show, very, very nice, very nice. So now the question is, is it different? Is this different? Does this feel different? Because we've been through this. This is now, I would say, year five of the crisis era, Maple Leafs. You know, it's year nine of Matthews.

But, okay, you lose to Boston a couple of times. Not great, but all right, you can live with that. That's a good team. You lose to Columbus, but it's the bubble and I don't know, everything's so weird. once the Montreal collapse happens in 2021, that's the beginning of the something might be critically wrong with this group. And now here we are. We're five years into it. And everyone's going, okay, this time they're definitely going to break it up.

This time they're going to, maybe we'll find out. As we're recording this, we don't know the fate of Brendan Shanahan, although I think most of us can guess. And we don't know what that trickles down to. but I don't know, man. You want the fan perspective? The fan perspective is we are sick of these guys. Please change something. Even if it is a step back,

please, please, please do not run it back because we cannot handle another season of knowing exactly how this is going to end. It was like really noticeable that Mitch Marner was saying everything in the past tense. I love being a Toronto Maple Leaf. And I don't know if that's necessarily on purpose. Like Mitch has been, it's been awkward in the media for him over the course of his career.

Like, it's just not something that he's overly comfortable with. So I don't know if there's, you know, any purpose to the way he's saying that and why he's saying that. But, you know, as much as the team would need a pallet cleanser and this is your opportunity to do that from a team's point of view, if you look at it from Marner's point of view, like every year, you know, for the past five to six years, let's say, because the early goings of it, it was like, hey, we're getting experience, we're learning, all that. It was, there was a lot of optimism. But it's changed.

The tone has changed around this group not winning these big games when it matters most. And now it's like, do you want to deal with this same press conference every single year? Do you want to deal with those feelings every single year? And you might not think about it October, November, December. But once the calendar flips to April 1st, that's got to be in the back of your mind. like, man, there's 15 other teams here that are trying to win a Stanley Cup. We're obviously trying. Our odds are not great.

Like, that press conference is right around the corner. Like, do I want to deal with that again? Or do I want to make the same money or more money elsewhere and not necessarily have to deal with that every year? And just try to build something and help a different team at this point. To me, one of the more interesting questions here, and it's totally hyperestown. hypothetical clearly because it seems like Mitch has a foot and a half out the door. Like you said, past tense. We know the teams he's been linked to.

Like everyone can kind of fill in the dots. But say a month from now, both sides hash out a deal that makes sense. He doesn't get egregiously overpaid. Like the money's, you know, where it should be. Yes, he gets a raise, but it's nothing, it's nothing backbreaking. And then they have a reintroductory presser. or Mitch comes out and he says, listen, like, it was important for me to come back. I have unfinished business here.

I, it, it, it is important to me to do this for, for, for the, for the fan base, for the GTA in general, I want to be part of the solution. I want this to be my legacy. I'm staying here because it's important to me. If, if he came out, hair on fire and banged the table and said that into, said that into, said that into cameras, what would the reaction be? And because I'm, because I'm, because I'm, because I'm, I'm, I'm wondering if it, how, how it would be received. I think for, for some of the fan base, they're already done with the guy.

No matter what. Some of the fan base loves them, by the way. I mean, I, let's not act like this is some sort of unanimous thing. He's still the local kid. I've seen, I have seen more overwrought TikToks of like sad music playing over Mitch Marner walking off. the ice. Do you make any of them? You know, uh, maybe.

But I, I'll tell you that. Like, when people say this is not salvageable, the relationship, you've got half of it. There are two things he would have to say. Number one is unfinished business.

You know, I'm, he's doing the, the Leo DiCaprio thing. I'm not going anywhere. We're not done here. Yep. I'm,

you know, I'm a maple leaf for life and, you know, I, This is, I bleed blue and blah, blah, blah. The other thing for him to say that that would get a lot of the fans back on his, on his side is to, I think for the very first time from him, acknowledge, say, you know what? I've been treated extremely well here by this team. This team has given, they've given me all the money I asked for.

They've given me the role I asked for. They've all of this stuff. I have been treated really, really, really well by this. organization and loyalty goes both ways. And I want to pay that back a little bit. I think if he says both those things, a big chunk of the fans are back on his side, at least temporary.

Obviously, he goes into the playoffs and has three points in two rounds again. Then we're right back to square one. But I think it could happen. But I think you're right. It's theoretical because he was absolutely out the door. And you know what? Fine. That is his, that's his right both obviously just as a player hitting unrestricted free agency. Of course he has the right to say, I'm out of here. He had a right to not waive his no trade because they gave him a no trade. He has the right to explore free agency because he's at free agency. But even I think you, from a distance, you look at what he's been through in Toronto. It's been tough. It is a tough market to play in. and I always think back to this.

There was a Brandon Shanahan quote at the very beginning of this whole process where he said, look, what we're doing here and where we're doing it in Toronto, it's not going to be for everyone. It's going to be for some players. It's going to work and some it just won't. And I think one of the big flaws of the Shanahan era was they seemed to apply that thinking when they were looking at players to acquire,

but they never seemed to apply it to the guys. We're already there. Mitch Marner, as much as he's a Toronto kid, as much as we've all seen the pictures of him with leaf jerseys and being interviewed when he was four years old with the cute little bowl cut saying he loves the Toronto Maple Leafs, maybe it's just not for him. He might just be one of those guys who will be happier in some, you know, some city where no one's going to recognize him and he can wear flip-flops to practice and all of that stuff. and that just might be a better fit for him personally.

That doesn't mean that the market's good or bad or in the middle. It just means that it's not a fit. We talked about the Crabtree Valley Mall earlier where there's a P.F. Chang's in a Nordstrom rack and a I'm not even kidding. I'm not even kidding. He's a Cade factory. Come on down. Him signing in Carolina after he turned down a trade to Carolina would be a nice chef's kiss of a ending on this whole story. story. For him to

have turned down a trade for the guy who ends up winning the Kahn Smythe and then sign with the team that he turned down the trade to and the Leafs get nothing. Hey, hockey gods, you're looking for new ways to twist a knife on

on Maple Leafs fans? That's a pretty good one. It's a pretty good option. Frank, get a dip out. He had some technical difficulty issues. So McIndoo, we are left by our lonesome team one of the Western Conference Finals between the Dallas Stars and the Edmonton Oilers

which is two night Wednesday night what are what are your vibes what are your vibes coming into this I feel like I feel like this is maybe it's because I've got Eastern Conference brain right now but I feel like this is one that I truly don't have a handle on

because I look at it it seems close I think Dallas has Dallas has the ranton in fact and all that, but, and certainly Jake Ottinger. But the way the Oilers depth boards have been playing really for the duration here, that, that gives me, it gives me pause. And it makes, it makes me wonder if they can, if they can pull this off. So I'm, I'm coming into this kind of, you know, 50, 50 down the middle.

And I'm wondering if you feel the same. I've, I've got it slight edge to Dallas. You know, we, we saw this last year. obviously and it was a good hard-fought series. The rent-in factor is, I mean, probably at this point, overstated as far as what one guy playing 20 minutes a night can do, but it certainly does feel like a needle mover for a team that was already very close to these Oilers.

I mean, on some level, on some level, yes, but on another, they got out in the last, last year, they got outscored by Edmonton by three goals over the course of that, over the course of that series. and that's that's a period that's a period for me go written and as as as we've seen so it's on one level it is hyperbolic to treat this guy like like he's like he's the hinge for the series belt so like it might kind of be true like i just know it this feels like the sort of series that we could analyze a dozen different ways and come up with all sorts of reasons why it's it's going to be close this way or that way and then two weeks from now in the series is over, we look back and go, oh, right, one of those teams had Jay Gottenger, and one of them was starting Stuart Skinner. Yeah. And that's it.

That's it. And look, I mean, the name value of a goalie at this point doesn't really matter. It's how they're playing. And Stuart Skinner certainly finished strong against Vegas to put it like. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes. But he did. Jake Ottinger has been very, very good.

and I don't this it's it's going to be a fun series and it's going to be I think it's going to be extra fun after you watch I mean Carolina Florida again not the harp on it but it feels like you guys just you're like you're you're rubbing this in

at every turn I know imagine having to watch that series it feels like the weight on the person in the on deck circle and then you bang the weight off and you go and you take real cuts and that's going to be the Western Conference but we will see. Yeah, I feel like Ottinger is just a very good.

The margins are slim, man, we keep saying it. It's true for Florida, Carolina. It's been true in so many series this year alone. Ottinger is eminently capable of stealing a game or two or three in this.

And like, that's kind of, that's kind of where it hinges, right? Like, it's so, it's so boring. And I feel like it's a cop out all the time to just say like,

the team was better goaltending, like, is going to have the edge, but that's more glaring, I think, than, I think, uh,

I, I, I think that it is in, even in other, in other spots here. Hmm. I mean, I see Matias Eccl.

It could be interesting. Yeah. At some point. And, that's a, and, and, and what level do we see?

Because we said, like, high skinning came back in the last series and we all kind of went, oh, there's, there's your big, huge turning point. And then, I mean, he was, he was good. But he wasn't, he didn't look like a Norris guy out there as he's banging the rest off. And, you know, coming, we don't know if these guys healthy enough to play is not necessarily healthy. We'll see, we'll see the same.

What would you do with that comb as far as, like, do you drop them back with Bouchard? Do you put it like, same old, same old? or do you? I don't know if you starting back with Bouchard. I don't know if you started back with Bouchard immediately because Bouchard, I think was good in that last series. I don't know if you necessarily want to mess with the mix for him right now,

but you put an asterisk next to Kohlm and you underline his name and you say if it's game five and Bouchard's morphed back into evil round one Bouchard than you. Let's be honest, man. That could be the sort of thing. Echom's first game back. It could be let's, we're going to put him on the third pair.

We're going to, that way, we're going to have three, three good pairs to run out there. And early second period, you're like, you know what? Let's go back and what was working. Bouchard has something where the training wheels just get ripped, get ripped right back off. Yep. One last thing about Randon, too, is, especially when you look at it relative to last year, I'm interested to see if he can close some of the power play gap there because that that killed Dallas. That killed Dallas last season.

They lose Edmonton, six games, obviously. No power play goals in 28-5 on four minutes in that series. They didn't really create chances either. So obviously, we've seen much, much, much better from them here in the early days of Miko Ranton's 17-year, 17-year contract that he signed with Dallas or whatever it was. or whatever it was a couple weeks ago. So I'm interested in to see how that helps because that's always something you've got to be mindful of with Edmondson. You know, your odds are you're not going to be able to match them

in terms of power play projection or production, but you can close the gap a little bit. And I think Brandon gives them a chance there. Yep, just have it not be a huge advantage for Edmonton and I think you're happy. Much like the goaltending from the Oilers perspective. We don't need Stuart Skinner to outplay Jay Gondger. just don't have us be talking about gold-standing at the end of every game.

That's all we're asking. Please, please, please, please, please, please. All right, that series starts at 8 p.m. Eastern tonight. Enjoy it. We're back to finish things up with what we've learned in segment three. All right, we're back. Sean McInnew, what have we learned this week other than Frankie Carrado is the victim of a terrible internet outage across most of southern Ontario. Does Bell still own part of the Leafs?

Is this their attempt to silence? us is this what was frankie going to say that's a bit of a crato segue from you i think yeah uh here's here's what i learned what have we learned sean i learned hockey players are apparently the softest squishiest wimpiest of the pro athletes because once again we're being told that you just you can't win in big markets and obviously it's toronto right now under the spotlight, but we've heard it other places as well. These hockey players, they just, they can't do it. Every other sport, the biggest stars gravitate to the biggest markets.

The biggest spotlight, that's where they want to be. You want to, if you're in the NBA, you want to play for the Lakers. You're in Major League Baseball, you want to be a Yankee or a Dodger, Mets and Red Sox, maybe. Pittsburgh Pirate. Pittsburgh Pirate. Those are the big five. You know, you're in the NFL.

Hell, man. I'll go play for the Dallas Cowboys, of course. Because that's going to be, you know, I want the big spotlight, big pressure, all of that. That's where legends are made. Hockey players, I want to go to some little teeny tiny market where no one's going to ask me any hard questions. No one's going to yell at me. No one's going to talk about me on the radio or social media because nobody knows who I am. Apparently, these big, tough warrior hockey players who we are always told.

will crawl through broken glass to get to a championship are not willing to crawl through the media and criticism and fans occasionally booing them when they play like garbage. I thought these guys were tough, but maybe not.

As I heard a wise man say once, they're the toughest athletes on earth until you hurt your feelings. Until you hurt your feelings, yep, you do any of that. And like I had somebody put it this way to me, one of the readers in my mailbag.

And I thought this was a great point. We have spent the last 10 years hearing from these players about how much they need to be at the Olympics. They need to play World Cup. They need to represent their countries. It's the most important thing a hockey player could do. But the hometown in that country, forget it.

No, don't want any part of that. That's not fun. No, I'll do it for two weeks, but that's about the maximum amount of actual pressure I can handle. And after that, oh, I got to be on page 17 of the sports section. Because I just, I don't have the, hockey players just don't have the mental toughness of their NBA counterparts. That's what we've learned.

I agree. I completely agree with that. Yeah, two weeks, two weeks the Olympics, eight years, somewhere warm where people won't recognize me if I'm wearing my own jersey in a restaurant. It's the ideal. It's the ideal outcome. That's it.

What I learned is, by the way, all of that that I just said, it's my fault and your fault. And if you're a hockey fan, it's all of our faults. Knock it off. Stop caring about this league that you would never,

ever watch or pay a penny for if you didn't care about it. Ever. Get some hobbies. Start playing Blotrell or something. Right? Don't do that. Right? Don't do that. Right. Nope. Nope.

What I learned is that Alexander Alexiev is your newest inductee into the Mugshot Hall of Fame. The Capitals defenseman got busted for public intoxication in Arlington, Virginia, a couple of days a couple nights ago, I guess, no. Nothing, nothing crazy there gets pepper sprayed outside of pizza place. It's like, what are you going to do? It's nothing crazy. By your standards, maybe. Who among us hasn't been pepper sprayed in front of a pizza shop in Arlington, Virginia? That could have been me at any time between 2004 and 2010.

Oh, my God. Alexia, the payoff is the mugshot. My man got three teeth knocked out by Jake Evans during the first round, the first round series between Washington and Montreal, three more damaged. And let's just say you can tell. You can tell he got some accidental stick work because he's not hiding it. The man is thrilled to be to be booked in an Arlington County jail or whatever or whatever it was overnight there. Hall of Fame, baby.

He is smiling bigger in that photo than I have smiled at any point. In my life. Maybe in my life, quite possibly. Yeah. Certainly at any point during the playoffs. that is classic classic

I want to see the other guy because if that guy is I want to see the other guy I want to see the other guy who who the state he was in when when the thought crossed his mind to fight again

Alexander Alexeyev is one of the bigger human beings I've ever seen in a in a locker room he is a tank and yeah he's he's out of himself an off season. Do you think he was, I mean, he's obviously thrilled in the mug shop, but do you think

he's upset that he's missing the teeth from a previous incident? Like, do you think he's kind of like, can I just hold up a little sign that says, like, I didn't have these teeth this morning when I woke up? Like, that's not, this is, this is a preexisting condition. This was not a result of the, uh, of, of, of, of the incident that put me in front of cameras in the first place. Like, what, what happens when you square up with a guy like that? And you're just, you have to be insane.

In your in your thought, you're probably, there's like a voice in the back of your head that goes, this is a big guy. He probably can't fight. He probably has never, no one's ever stood up to him before. You're really hoping, oh boy, I hope he isn't a professional in an industry where occasional bare knuckles fist fights break out. And then you see him smile and you see half the teeth missing and you go, I'm in big trouble. I've made a big mistake here. Six foot four fridge that doesn't have any teeth in his mouth. I think I'm just going in and grabbing my pizza and going home.

That's just me. All right, bud. What else is up? Anything interesting coming from you this week? I got my annual tradition, the Maple Leafs Luz mailbag, where I get my fellow leaf fans right in. And, you know, it's, I was going to say it's a good time. It's not. But, you know, it's a little group therapy session.

and, you know, a mix of fans who are miserable, fans who are already numb to it. We get what is now become the traditional visit from other fans. And in this case, it is Pittsburgh. It's a Pittsburgh Pirates fan writes in with some advice for Lee fans that you will not like, but there's probably pretty good advice. Don't track the IP address on the center of that email, I don't think. I have, there is a Sean G who wrote in. And I was like, do I need to make a note that this?

This isn't. There's a Shanji and a James M. The question is if you got one from Frank C. Yeah. That's, I did, but it cut off halfway through. It was,

you know, just. So, yeah, that's, that's fun. And I think I'm going to write something else about the Leafs for later in the week,

but that is, has not started yet. So don't hold me to it. Wonderful. I'm hearing, here in Raleigh for a couple more days. Game to Eastern Conference final is Thursday night.

I guess after that I'm going to Fort Lauderdale. See how that goes. Follow along for dirty team versus boring team as you put it. Really great, really great. I don't want to think too far ahead, but are we getting you up to Edmonton for the final? I think this is a...

Or are you going to go back and forth, Dallas to... Dallas's last country, I think. I think I'm done here regardless. It's it's, it's, it's me and Rousseau, and then I can hand it off, hand out the adults for the fine. He's already talking past tense, everyone. One foot out the door. He's gone. Couldn't handle it.

I've enjoyed my time as a Raleigh residents. We're going to, we're going to see all things shake out. You can talk to my, talk to my agent about it. That's really, it's really out of my hands. All right, folks, thanks for listening. Niflatte Cogic shows back tomorrow. Sign up for the newsletter. Why don't you?

Red Light newsletter. It's been good. But it's only good half the time. I'm not going to say. Well, it's been good all the time lately because Myrtle stopped doing it because he was. Yeah, he's not a team player and he's all like, well, if I'm watching the Leaf Game and writing like three columns about every one of them, I can't also do a newsletter. See, the rest of us, the rest of us, frauds just say like, yeah, I'll do it anyways. I don't know. I don't know anything about Dallas. I don't know about Dallas, Winnipeg.

You want to write about it? The rest of us click except on one meeting invite, and then suddenly it's just part of our job description for the rest of our careers. Brother. All right. Thank you guys for listening. We'll talk to you soon.